The Mysteries of the Beatles' Dear Prudence - Gear, There and Everywhere EP6
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- Опубліковано 12 жов 2024
- In the sixth episode of Gear, There and Everywhere, we unravel the mysteries of Dear Prudence:
Paul of Guitar Gear Connection: / @guitargearconnection
Sam Popkin: / @sampopkin
Ryan Martin: / @manwithnoexpression
Dom Rossi: / @drguitar918
Some things we listen to/look at in this episode:
Videos of the Beatles in India:
• The Beatles at Maharis...
Photos of the Beatles in India:
thebeatlesinin...
Good Night (Take 10 With A Guitar Part From Take 5):
• Good Night (Take 10 Wi...
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I’ve always believed that there was 2 guitars that John played, the casino and the j160e, the 160e being recorded with a mic, that is how I’ve always heard it
Thank you! Interesting!!
J160 + Casino, that is the perfect match.
J & P were both playing Martins (D28?) in India. Lots of pics.
I’m kinda surprised you guys haven’t done, “Who played the solo on Hey Bulldog”. Or did I just not see it in there.
Also, an eps on the briefly mentioned C. Beckstein piano from Trident Studios would be cool too. In addition to the Beatles using it, Rick Wakeman played it on Bowie’s Hunky-dory. That same year he played it on T-Rex Get It On. Later he played on Ziggy Stardust, and Aladdin Sane. Then ofc Queen used it on A night at the Opera. Elton John’s debut album with Your Song, Take me to the Pilot etc. Then for Madman Across the Water. Tiny Dancer, Levon etc.
It was also used by Genesis, Yes, Lou Reed used it on Transformer produced by Bowie. Harry Nilsson used it on his Grammy award winning Without You. Carly Simon used it on Your So Vain. The list goes on if you do a deep dive on it.
Prudence married Al Bruns and was pregnant with their first son when we met in 1973 ... and have made their home in north Florida since then. She's still teaching TM actively half a century later.
I think it’s the rick for sure. I had both set to Paul’s spec (sold jazz last week) and found I could get the same tone with the rick on the neck pickup tone on 1-2
Also the sustain seems more akin to the rick. Could be either though I suppose
@@blairpenney3784 (Ryan here) I forgot to mention this channel on the episode, but this guy makes a pretty good argument for the Rick: ua-cam.com/video/kLlZNvubkdU/v-deo.html
@@GearThereEverywhere cool. Question while you’re here: and it obviously differs on different songs and albums (SGT pepper sounds like it might have a little treble pickup) but what do you think Paul’s tone settings are on the rick?
The bass on DP sounded like other tracks where Paul used the Jazz Bass (Piggies and Why Don't We Do it in the Road is an example of what I mean) but now I'm not so sure. It does sound different from a track like Everybody's Got Something to Hide... which sounds more like the Ric, it's a tubbier and thumpier tone.
The sustain would be affected by the heavy compression, though.
Well done guys. Thanks for putting your time into this episode.
Thanks a lot, we're glad you liked it!
John could've recorded the acoustic, and then recorded the Casino, and then used ADT on the Casino track. It's also interesting to think that it sounds different on the mono version than the stereo version
John double tracked his acoustic, played through an amp. The Casino was not used for the picking.
I was going to say the same thing: ADT could have been used on the Casino track.
@@thomaspappalardo7589 The picking was done on his acoustic, which he double tracked, the second guitar entering after four bars of the intro. No ADT. ua-cam.com/video/eB51JchewDg/v-deo.htmlsi=1lzdSqksS_rGJcxO
10:23 The same piano was used on many of Queen's early stuff, but not on Bohemian.
It is in fact a Bechstein, but a white one. The backing track was recorded at Rockfield Studios, not Trident.
Great video, the best ones are always when all 4 of you are together.
In regards to Lucy vs SG, we know that George also used his SG on Helter Skelter (he uses his whammy bar at the end of the 1st chorus yet neither Lucy nor the Bartell fretless have a whammy bar) and the solo on Happiness Is A Warm Gun (there's a picture of him from that day where you can see his SG case as he's seen from behind playing a Gibson) and it's also possible that the SG was used on Glass Onion and Birthday, as those songs were recorded right inbetween Helter Skelter and Happiness Is A Warm Gun.
The piano at Trident was not used on Bohemian Rhapsody, because that’s not where the basic track was recorded. That’s an internet/Wikipedia myth. It may have been played on a Beckstein, but this piano would have been at Rockfield Studios in Wales. This myth came about because their first three albums were recorded at Trident, as was Hey Jude, Hunky Dory, and a number of Elton albums - all of which feature THAT piano - just not Bohemian Rhapsody.
I went on a school residential to Rockfield Studios
Magic Alex was also along on the India trip, and he smuggled drugs to John and Paul . Alex was also behind the alleged discovery of Maharishi's infidelities.
You guys touched on a great video… which casino! I’ve got a 99 Peerless Korean, 2007 Elitist, 2009 IBJL Revolution , 2015 IBJL Sunburst , 2019 Chinese … all are different. My wife to this point has prevented the acquisition of a USA…
Ringo actually returned on September 4th when they filmed the Hey Jude and Revolution videos
Why would it had been so complicated to have Ringo overdub drums if they were still using the studio when he came back? It actually makes perfect sense to think that after a few days of listening to the song's playback they realised that it lacked something in the outro. Also, there's definitely 2 Casinos in the song, no question about it. Lastly, I think George is playing the SG. Finally, notice how the three of them are using the same pattern, Paul plays the pattern on the bridge (look around).
Clever name for a channel. Tells one all they need to know about the focus of the podcast.
Re the guitar version of 'Goodnight' Beatlesebooks has this: "When it was decided that "take five" was the keeper, [John] tripled-tracked his performance, filling both tracks two and three with similar performances to thicken the sound. Interestingly, his performance on track two was recorded at half-speed so that when it was played back at normal speed it was heard an octave higher."
Fantastic breakdown lads! Going to have to agree with Paul about George using Lucy over the SG, based on how the Tele was used over Lucy in the get back sessions. I’ve always thought there was an acoustic on the song . I definitely hear it throughout the song. Would it have been possible for John to have tracked the j-160e both through a mic and DI at the same time and overdubbed with the casino? It would solve how Ryan heard 2 electrics and an acoustic, while fitting Paul’s theory that John only would’ve recorded guitars twice.
(Ryan here) I still think it’s not at all unreasonable for there to be a double tracked Casino in addition to at least one track of the J-160e - that plus George is still only 4 guitar tracks, and they were doing that many as far back as Help!
@@GearThereEverywhere hi Ryan, didn’t make it clear in the comment, but I do reckon the double casino track with the acoustic probably got the closest sound to the rhythm guitar. Was wondering if it could’ve been a plugged in j-160e, acoustic and casino that got the sound. Although it definitely sounds closer with 2 casinos and an acoustic. Also yeah definitely not uncommon for there to be multiple guitar tracks, was mostly thinking that john will probably do maybe 1-2 rhythm guitar tracks per song as most of the guitar overdubs I know of usually come from George or Paul most of the time. Only time I think John has overdubbed more is when he plays lead like in revolution.
@@Luke_Dude9 Gotcha, it's definitely possible, but at the very least the acoustic that can be heard later in the song definitely wasn't also plugged in since you don't hear the acoustic strumming being mimiced on an electric.
But yeah one Casino, one J-160e plugged in, and then a separate J-160e recording that's just acoustic could be possible, and I bet Paul would agree with you on that more than I would.
The guitar might have some muted plate reverb. The second guitar is at lower volume.
it's a Ringo overdub. The final mixes were made in October, plenty of time to do a simple overdub. The sound of the drums also are totally different, including the snare.
overdubs weren't always documented. There is also no registration of the Lennon overdub of Do'nt Let Me Down.
Overdubbing later on is not that simple when you're dealing with only 8 tracks and you've filled them all up. If the fills were added later you would hear the original drum track that was just keeping time with a couple of simple fills. The change of drum sound part way in begins when the piano comes in, possibly meaning that they were recorded together. The bass changes sound at the beginning of the coda, which possibly means that it too had to be redone to free up tracks for the composite fills. It couldbe the VI, who knows?The isolated stems strongly indicate that these drum fills were comped together and not played as a performance, like Ringo would have done. In isolation these fills are really sloppy, clumsy even. The Lennon overdub for DLMD is a simple case of wiping the former vocal track and recording a new one. Very different to DP.
@@marcusphelan57 The Beatles did fills constantly when they still recorded on 4 track.
And it's not 'fiils', it an overdub on an existing drum track. It happened frequently, like on A Day In the Life, where the Paul vocal was inserted on the vocal track by John.
I do'nt hear any 'comped drums', its seems just one overdub.
The fills sound perfect to me, not clumsy at all.
there is a podcast where Dear Prudence was investigated by a professional drummer, and he could track similarities between the fills of Dear Prudence, and the Ringo fills on The Word.
He could not find any similarity in Pauls drumming.
@@evertvdb000 A professional drummer, you don't say? Whatever.
@@marcusphelan57 yes, i used the 'argument from authority'.
I shouldn't have done that.
you are right
@@evertvdb000 we are not worthy. Salute.
Another great show
Thanks!
You mention John playing the lead on Octopus's Garden. I think it must be George because I think there is a bit in Get Back video where George is playing it.
Yeah I’m pretty sure it’s George, maybe whoever said that was referring to the second guitar?
Dr. Prudence , my favorite song on the album! Casino for sure in intro for John…innovative song. Is this their first use of an alternate tuning? Drop D by John,apart of course from McCartney on Yesterday tuned a whole step down on the Texan, D standard tuning. Oh yeah my vote 2 Casinos…J160, wasn’t he using a MARTIN by then? He wrote it in a Martin right.
It's the J 160 through an amp, not the Casino (if in doubt, listen to the isolated vocal stem.)They've used alternate tuning before, apart from Yesterday. Act Naturally is Dropped D. The guitar on Fixing A Hole (played by Paul) is tuned a whole step down, the same as the lead guitar on SPLHCB title song. Rain (again played by Paul) had an A tuning (before being slowed down to aound G): A (really low!) E A A C# E. Love You To, Tomorrow Never Knows Mk 1 and Flying use a guitar tuned down four whole steps and played around an E shape for a C chord.
I did a video on this song, my main motivation being to uncover George's lead parts, but as happens when doing these things, without other instruments providing context for it, it doesn't make as much sense - a long way of saying I did the other guitars and the bass and most of the drums as well (I "borrowed" some drums in the coda but that's between you and me right? Shhhhh!) As we know, we can't use the real thing (in an obvious way, anyway.) Ok my take: definitely the SG was used by George and nearly 100% certain that the J-160 was used by John for the picking, played through an amp. I haven't got a J-160 but I do have a Casino, the latter being what I initially believed to be used by John but fairly quickly concluded was not the case. For one, it's far too difficult to maintain accuracy over the whole song in picking with such a narrow neck compared with an acoustic, even with John's small hands. I reckon you all would have noticed how much easier it is to play on an acoustic. Also the Casino just doesn't sound right to me. Everyone seemed to agree that there has to be an acoustic used but all the theories offered here seemed to me to over complicate things. In my experience, with the Beatles, the simplest, most logical way to play something is usually the right way. Having a blend of Casino and J-160 makes no sense - by the way, the second guitar comes in on the G , the third (playing the 1st and 2nd strings) comes in on the D. Unfortunately, when I did this video I was in the midst of having horrendous computer noise issues which were a real piss off but I was in a hurry to get it down, as you do. ua-cam.com/video/Pi5TfMj6uBY/v-deo.htmlsi=pWjiQPqOg4fL2hlg
First off, that SG sounds fantastic! Your acoustic sounds pretty close, I think I'm realizing that having flatwounds on my J-160e might have ruined a lot of the value in my test recording, as it seems you're getting that tiny bit of string buzz which is on the record that I wasn't getting on the Casino or the J-160e, but to be fair it's tricky to know what the J-160e sounds like with the pickup moved anyway.
Definitely more testing is needed on my end, next time I get around to putting rounds on my J-160e I'll try some of this again.
I also wasn't sure whether that prominence on the high strings was due to EQ like I said in the episode, or if it's just an overdub of just those strings like you did. Lots to consider!
Also around that last section in your cover at 3:15ish, I think there's definitely an unplugged acoustic buried in there as well. I didn't notice it until I heard it in this isolated video around 15 minutes in: ua-cam.com/video/dmN2DlxzSgY/v-deo.html
The strums don't match with the main electric
@@GearThereEverywhere That's because I don't reckon there's an electric strumming there at all. I did that strumming part on the acoustic, but didn't do it as aggressively as John did. He goes fully Polythene Pam (without a pick though). Listening again to that isolated track has pushed me over the 100% threshold of probability, if that's possible ha. It's not unplugged, it's the spill. John recorded his vocal with the acoustic which is spilling into the mic quite obviously, as well as Paul's drums (before the coda edit.) Which means John sang and played guitar, together with Paul drumming on the initial track. John double tracked his vocal along with the other backing vox that we hear on this stem. This stem absolutely proves the picking is done on an acoustic.
@@marcusphelan57 If it's mic bleed, why wouldn't the acoustic bleed match the strumming on the other all the way through? Do you think the "electric" strumming is the second tracked J-160e and they muted the first one for that section? I could be wrong but from the test I did, that electric and acoustic don't match perfectly on the strumming
@@GearThereEverywhere There's only one part of the song strummed: the coda, and there's one guitar doing it: the J -160. The doubled picking J - 160 is not needed for the coda, there is no picking. The Esher demo ends with strumming so that had been part of the arrangement since the beginning. There's no added value doubling the strumming and it also frees up space for the loads of overdubs and bouncing downs in the coda. The bass sound changes dramatically as well in the coda which no one ever seems to mention but which has always puzzled me. I reckon the coda has been worked on as a separate edit and spliced in, different EQ and all. The thing is, when I did my video I never bothered studying the vox stem cos that was of no interest to me, I was only interested in the guitars. I now wish I had cos the spill we hear is so obviously from an an acoustic that I wouldn't have suggested any doubt.
Did McCartney use the Rickenbacker 4001 on this song?
Rickenbacker 4001 for the bass all the way
Sounds like one track is just someone playing the Casino's lower strings - the 3-note ostinato bass part - on a separate track throughout the song; sounds isolated from the descending high-note component of the guitar figures.
May have overdubbed just the low notes; or played the low and high parts separately for recording purposes (unlikely). Or, conversely, what was suggested may in fact be the case - the High-string component, rather than the low, was overdubbed separately. Or, perhaps, both the high And low parts were overdubbed separately on top of the Travis-picking (for reasons of calrity, precision, etc.).
ua-cam.com/video/eB51JchewDg/v-deo.htmlsi=4C-ZVpK-b49gPvFP (I've since think that the Jazz bass was most probably used.)
The discussion at the end about the role played by the specs of the guitars highlights a key point for me. As in, it’s not the point. The Beatles are possibly the least gear-focused guitar band who ever had any success. They were all about songwriting, arranging and studio sonic creative choices where the gear contributes parameters but doesn’t originate the direction. They should have been the most endorsed and indulged band gear wise in the sixties, but a combination of timing, post-WW2 frugality, old-fashioned loyalty to handshake agreements, and a degree of naivety all meant they didn’t pursue gear when they had the means and opportunity to (this late sixties period in particular). They “made do” and examples of them indulging some consumerism with guitar gear are exceptions that tend to prove the rule. There’s a certain poignant irony about us looking back at their gear from the consumerist viewpoint of the 21st century and hoping their creativity can be accessed through it. They are far removed from our motivations. I mean, Harrison passed Clapton’s Fool SG onto Jackie Lomax! Presumably he figured he already had one, so he didn’t need it😊.
George played alternate picking from day one. He loved Chet.
FYI, DI means Direct Insertion, not "Direct Injection"...
I think we were quoting how John refers to it in the Lovely Rita outtake
It actually does stand for injection. I never ever heard anyone call it insertion before in over 20 years working in music stores and studios.
I have listened to the isolated bass for Dear Prudence and it has some rattle which is not evident in the mix. Could it be a processed Hofner 500/1?
A Jazz Bass with a foam mute can get a very similar sound to the DP bass track, unlikely they would go to the trouble to process the very bassy/thumpy Hofner (which doesn't really get that tone even with both pickups on)
I'm pretty sure the reason those higher strings ring out is just how he's play them. It adds a nice contour and it's not hard to do.
I don’t think John had the patience to do three guitar tracks. I think he did the Casino (treated with ADT), then added the J-160E.
He had the patience to do two J 160 through-an-amp tracks (the second one enters after four bars of the intro, on the "G" 0 0 0 7 8 7 chord.) If in doubt that John is playing an acoustic, listen to the isolated vocal stem. An electric picks the high E and B strings, F# D F# D F# etc. The recording was started and finished at Trident, so no ADT, just a lot of double tracking.
Mississippi John Hurt was doing it way before Merle or Chet.
I want it to be the Jazz Bass therefore it is
It's the Ricky.
@@marcusphelan57nah the tone is exactly the same as Birthday
@@Henry3Studios yeah I realise that now. That was nine months ago
Guys, please do its all too much lead guitar! I believe its john on his casino pushing the tailpiece for bends cause these are all upbends in the intro.
John would need Paul’s or George’s Casino to get up OR down bends (there’s both.) You need a Bigsby. It’s Paul on guitar.
Or possibly, they just passed their guitars around so John had George's Casino? They did that at times.
@@mr_bassman6685 The intro for IATM is an edit piece. That's not just one guitar pass, that's at least two guitars combined. yes they did pass around guitars, the guitar part in Oh Darling which John plays, for example, has to be played with a bigsby in order to get the coda behind-the-bridge arpeggio, so he must have used George's Casino. Whatever, the guitar in IATM sounds like Paul's style, and the bass is wonky and rough enough to be John.
they could have used ADT and john recorded only one Casino part.
Brian died a few days before pepper eas released
Close, but you’re a little off. Looks like Brian died August 27th of 1967, so Pepper had already been out for 3 months
The end drums could only be Paul because it lacks Ringo's internal rhythm. It was probably dropped into any of other 7 tracks
Prudence is Rickenbacker bass all the WAY- sorry.
I'd almost bet anything its not a Jazz bass
on the drums: The bass sound changes drastically at the end, is it possible that Ringo is on drums from this point of the song onwards and Paul recorded a different bass track using a different bass, maybe Ric at start then switching to a Jazz Bass?