Full hearing: Appeals court hears case against parents of Oxford shooter in dismissal attempt
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- Опубліковано 28 вер 2024
- The case against the parents of the Oxford High School shooter, who also face criminal charges in connection with the mass shooting, was heard in the state appeals court Tuesday morning as the defense attempts to get the case dismissed. www.clickondet...
He was 15 unwell and they buy him a gun for Christmas. 15 yrs old and then take off running leaving the kid to fend for himself in prison unbelievable.
that’s it, how the cookie crumbles. You would run also if you think the law would come after you because your kid failed himself.
They were hiding from the press and didn't know there was a warrant out for their arrest as no parent has been criminally liable for their child's criminal acts.
@@JaneDoe-tr5xyoh please they weren’t hiding from press. They emptied out their bank accounts and his.
My daughter had a mental breakdown at school the school called I went and picked my child up and she was 15 at the time I took her straight to the ER FOR HELP. The school district said she could stay at school I took her out I knew she needed help at that point
You acted like a true and caring parent. You discover her trauma and sought help for her. From my ‘reading’ of this case this boy was an irritant to his parents. He did terrible things but how lonely, and isolated he was with no friends and parents who seem to place more value on horses than on his welfare.
That is parenting. I'm sure your family is healthier because that was your initial response. Wish daughter peace and wellness.
That says nothing.Every situation is different every person different.Your not looking at this from a legal view.
Yes! You, the parent made that choice! And I think that would have made the difference here. The parents don't have to leave the child there because the school thought he was ok, the school aren't the parents! It is the parents responsibility to take care of the child, including mental health of a child!
I find it disturbing that both the parents and school minimized the idea that ethan was suicidal... that in itself should have led to him immediately getting mental health attention. If someone told me my child was suicidal... im seeking care asap.
Ethan's drawing was full of red flags. The school, the parent's, or both should have searched his backpack.
When they did neither, death at the school was a result.
Both the parent's and the school failed in their responsibilities.
Obviously, though, the parent's were busy nurturing everything but their young son.
Yeah. The parents and school failed that day. If the concern was suicide - further assessment is warranted especially making sure they don’t have access to weapons. They all failed. Does anyone know if parents have filed civil lawsuits against the school yet? I can’t remember now
I believe the school should be held responsible also he should of been sent home and his book back should of been searched
I had that same situation, with my oldest daughter. I sought treatment for her, and when I consulted a pyschiatrist to treat her, that damned psychiatrist diagnosed me, instead, with OCD, and gave me anti-anxiety drugs for myself, on ONE visit. I should've run, but this professional came with recommendations, both via my health insurance as well as others who had been treated by him, and peer reviews. Now, I wish I hadn't used him. As a result, my daughter did NOT get treatment for her suicidal thoughts. That was 26 years ago. She's still dealing with those thoughts, but she's 43 years old now. She still holds me responsible for not getting her treatment then, even though she now has a therapist, who blames me for all of my daughter's problems, not realizing that my daughter was sexually abused by her father (which, I wasn't aware of until much later, and neither of them let me know until the last 5 years), as well as her babysitter's son, while under the care of her babysitter.
Now, I don't have a relationship with my daughter. I've had to cut her off from any contact, because of her mental issues. I don't, and never wanted to, do this to her, but for my own safety and mental health, I've had to.
@@cady__I believe they file suits against the school and certain adult individuals,as well as the school district.
Judge: “…and it’s ‘the court’ - not ‘you guys’…”
Attorney: “Obviously. I know that you guys are very busy…” 😂
😂😂 She clearly don’t listen
She's so cringey
Can any of us who are not in the legal profession imagine we would address a Judge as ‘You guy’.
IKR..... She is still unprofessional in 2024 during the actual trial
Almost a year later, she still hasn’t gotten any better at this.
We need more televised proceedings, the public deserves the right to know.
I think the public has the right to know and can benefit greatly by learning how our system works by observing it in action.
In the UK we don’t televise any 😢
I don't know about appellate oral arguments, 99% of the time the appeals arguments concern really arcane nuance of law that most people will find tedious and over their head. To really understand what is going on you have to read the briefs before the oral arguments.
stream court TV. I got hooked on that shoe about 25 years ago
This is for the American public. Not the British public. Don’t be a hypocrite, posturing as “the public.” No American would be drooling to see the court proceedings of child murders to get their jollies and entertain themselves. But the British do constantly because their court proceedings are SECRET. We got the hel* away from Britain because we don’t like the way you handle things just like this. Do you know why your court proceedings are SECRET from the public who pay for them? It’s entirely so that cases can be decided dishonesty in favor of Royalty and Aristocracy. The press being allowed in to “rake notes” is a very new thing. Just in the past year we saw that dishonesty in 3 cases with royalty - 2 with your charming Harry and one with his lovely wife. Congress - who is us, the people, are debating to block out our legal proceedings from outside the US. A weeks pay says you have no idea why we televise certain legal proceedings. These have nothing to do with you and are part of our Constitution. Your drool, and the other Britons here who would post a vile, ignorant comment like that is causing the world’s oceans to rise. The UK is the least politically participatory 1st world nation in the WORLD. You pretend you’re a democracy but sit there doing nothing for yourselves as you’ve been socialized for 1,000 years to let a monarch decide. Your Parliament does, almost entirely, what the BRF wants. And you play a pathetic game of pretending that that family “stays out of politics.” Also understand clearly that you are on an American platform, UA-cam - not an international free space. Every second you watch ANYTHING on YT America makes more money off you..Americans see this nosy, ignorant rudeness everytime our legal proceedings are posted on YT. Learn some manners and learn some history. Your username is noted. 🇺🇸
Even though the father bought the gun for his child the parents still should have positive control over that weapon and secured it properly. The child asks for the gun from the parents. The kids doesnt get to keep the gun in their possession indefinitely. Then to know that he’s looking for ammo the few days before. They should be charged
It was locked up he searched for the key.
@@jlorde8838If the Key/Password/Code etc is accessible to the People who should not have access to it than its not secured same way if it was in a bolsawood box with a padlock its not actually secure despite the appearance of a Lock
@@jlorde8838there was no key. It was a code. And that code was only 000. Also Mom bought the gun not the dad.
Not a surprise that teachers are leaving schools in droves.
I took an early retirement in 2017 for medical reasons. I honestly am so glad now.
I’m out-was 2nd career
I don’t know if i can stand listening to her-i’m hyperventilating already-“cheat sheet” ‘cos she can’t be responsible for following rules
Did you watch the teacher who was shot testimony? My stars. I believe what I saw was in mother's trial. I hope that mother never gets to put eyes on a horse again. They should have put the boy up for adoption when he was born. He didn't have a chance. She is guilty.
I’m thinking if I was pulled into a meeting and shown a picture of murder I would want access to my child immediately regardless if the conclusion of the meeting was suspicion of harm to oneself or the safety of others. Why did they neglect to get him home and immediately get him help?
Simple …..they couldn’t be bothered with their own child.
They left him alone at 8-9 years old to party. Neglected him from the start. He had to go to a neighbors for food and comfort. 😢😮
Shannon’s so out of her league. Unprofessional as well. She also injects herself into the case just ridiculous. The parents absolutely knew what he was going go mom said on the stand she thought he was the school shooter , and thought he was going shoot himself . She’s also lied or minimize parents actions . He was showing sights for months
If only we could allow parents to be criminally responsible for their kid's actions for about 5 years, it might just clean up a few messes in society.
Eliminate the guns, eliminate the killings.
Guess we need to ban pressure cookers as well... according to your logic. Possibly knives...
I didn't know that pressure cookers were used to kill people.
@@kevinlewis8642. That’s a very tired argument. You also left out buckets of water because people can drown in a few inches of water if their head is held down. There are many ways to kill another human being unfortunately, but guns are made specifically to kill people. It is rifles that are usually used to kill animals.
And one day when your kid screws up after all you have risked and done for your kids all your life , your kids fails you and does something wrong and makes the wrong decision AND YOU END UP SITTING THERE IN JENNIFER CRUMBLEYS PLACE saying to yourself this is not fair that my kid did something wrong and I’m being charged, don’t wish these charges upon people when one day that people can be you and than you regret these words
She has zero court decorum. “You guys” while addressing 3 judges! Told to get back behind the podium.
What a nimrod. And I’m afraid she’s going to fly away with all that hand flapping.
Ditto. She really is pitiful.
😂😂😂😂😂😂
Her professors I'm sure are PISSED right now...
😂
So many opportunities that both the parents and the school had to prevent this tragedy from ever happening. It’s sickening. These poor victims & their families didn’t have to go through this
"It's the court, not you guys," proceeds to call them you guys immediately thereafter. 😂
Blew me away!
Idk why I’ve felt so sorry for her this entire trial. I think she’ll be an excellent lawyer, as she matures 🤷🏼♀️🦋💜🦋
@LettiesLife I can't get over her whiny-ness. I'm not even faulting her for making objections, but I don't think I heard a single "objection!" It was always a whiny 'they're being mean to me' tone. Ugh. She's clearly more intelligent than I having passed the bar but good gawd grow the hell up already.
@@abc123youandme you are right. Can’t deny it but man is she getting pounded for being “young” 🙈 and Jennifer wasn’t an easy mom to defend! 🤷🏼♀️. 🫶🏼
@LettiesLife I don't disagree with Jennifer being hard to represent but I'm not as gracious in chalking it up to youth, I guess.
is the school also going to be held responsible since they permitted him to return to the classroom?
Hopefully
No judge dismissed the school/personnel of liability.
The Judge nailed this today-stating we're not here to focus on the shortcomings of others but actions and behavior the perpetrator. I couldn't agree more.
The school did not avail the shooter with a gun!! Nor store the key to the lock in a decorative, easily accessible beer stein!
I like how well rounded the Judges questions are.
The defense attorney should not refer to the judges as “you guys”, but rather your Honor’s.
The 2nd lawyer has irritated me from the beginning.
Now she's going to Um the judges to death.
Too many ditzy females in the legal profession, that are terrible orators..
Wonderful response…….’YOU GUYS’ to the Judges
Oh my God, it is like 2 airheads. Airheads being the 2 defense lawyers. Presenting an argument to 3 wise men. Smh
Kids shouldn’t have guns without direct parent supervision. To me, this is common sense.
They didn't let him have it alone.
Kids, nor adults, should have guns. What is wrong with Americans?
@@jlorde8838Then how did he have it at school 🚸
@@jlorde8838 Well It Seems They Were Irresponsible Gun Owners Who Obviously Did Not Secure The Weapon That They Told Their Son Was His Gun! That Boy Was Not Into Hunting, Obviously It Was Not For Personal Protection.
Young People Died Because They Bought A Gun For Their Son Who They Knew Was Unstable.
@@jbrewer24121 lmao highly doubtful
I cannot get over the lack of care & insight into Ethan's plight for help😢 New South Wales Australia
Agree 😢 Ireland.
Having just watched the trial of Jennifer Cromeley being represented by Shannon Smith, I am seriously concerned she is a licensed practitioner of law with her consistent inability to follow respect and decorum for the judge, the court and the law. She is shocking.
She is without question a horrible attorney.
Ask Larry Nassar, I bet he disagrees.
Shocking is an understatement statement! She is atrocious!
Why didn’t they bring in more evidence into Jennifer’s trial! The totality of evidence is overwhelming that she is 100000% responsible!!!!! The comments from people regarding this trail is absolutely mind blowing. 🤯
I agree with you on that statement. Shannon is a disgrace to the courts and her profession. She made a comment during the Nassar trial, that she didn’t believe a majority of those young ladies that came forward to testify and tell their story as to what happened to them! I have disrespected her since then and still do in this Crumbley trial! SHM🤬
I just can’t watch the defense attorney argue they had no “legal duty” to protect other people from the actions of their child. I think the judges are saying that without saying it n so many words in their questions.
it's not as simple as that, if your child is normal, with no warning signs, but then pushes another child on purpose of a say a high wall, killing the other child, are the 1st child's parents liable.
Of course, this case is different, as it would be if the child said, I'm gonna push the 1st child I see off a 20ft wall, i intend to kill them and the parents did nothing.
So it's not defacto ,a parent is liable for the actions of their child towards others if the actions are not foreseeable and preventable
This obviously was foreseeable and preventable and they enabled him by buying him a gun. Sometimes however children kill , and hurt other children.
Think of this, your kid gets into a fight in school, and you as the parent automatically are legally responsible for the assault, and child abuse of the other child. So it needs to be very selective and a very high bar or basically as a parent you wouldn't allow your children near any other child in fear you might get arrested for what they might do.
Now there is a case for parents of bullies, who are fully aware of their kid's actions and take no measures to address that, should they face assault and child abuse charges as well.
Now that could be mitigated by the parents being made aware but they took the appropriate recommended measures, i.e counseling etc, but if the kids still bullied other kids, the parents have done what was recommended are legally no longer liable.
sry for the long post
If this is true, there would be a lot of parents in jail already. Parents that consider themselves helpless to control their child.
I think the key here is that the parents neglected this child and had no idea he was doing all the things he was doing like killing and torturing animals etc . They never checked his phone, never checked his room, never checked his backpack, never saw his writings etc
Yep...they "checked out" from being parents to him; they appeared not to be invested in his mental well-being.
These judges are tough. So they should be. I’m watching Jennifer Crumble’s trial now and Shannon is something. Never seen a trial attorney like her.
Mind blowing! 🤯
How does she still have a license?
She’s a whole mess.
Have y’all seen her website? The main cases she takes on is to get pedos and rapists off. She has a whole section dedicated to the cases she’s won
@@Hunee- as big as the entire outside.
Sonya, girl!!!! 🤦🏼♀️
A legal duty to protect the children of the school upon the actions of their child
So if the child was in school how can we not charge.the school too
@@carrianneselah4472 The School Did Not Know The Boy Had A Gun Bought For Him By The Parents!
The School Notified The Parents That The Boy Was Drawing Weird Stuff and Asking For Help.
They Notified The Parents Their Son Was Researching bullets, They Told The School They Were Not Worried And That They Take Their Son To A Gun Range.
They Eventually Told The Parents to Take The Boy Home and Get Him Psychiatric Help.
The Parents Refused, Counselor Then Told Them If They Do Not Get The Boy Psychiatric Help They Will CPS.
@@carrianneselah4472And if he was in a cafe, do you charge the cafe. Why do people keep wanting to shift parental responsibility onto schools. I had a mother complain to me that it was the duty of the school to teach a child how to behave, and even toilet train them. The parent is responsible, and I just find it weird that these two people just fobbed off their responsibilities onto the svhool.
This will end up before the Supreme Court, this opens the door for parents being responsible for their children’s crimes.
If a parent at any time denies mental health help to their child, the should be liable for any and all crimes committed. Period.
Good !!!!!!!
@@holliver_bpd796and who exactly is the arbiter of what constitutes a child's need for mental health? Is every moody teenager legally required to be put on a cocktail of antidepressants?
We can't hold parents responsible for everything their kids do. You're obviously not educated in the law.
@@puddingtame3483amen! If that’s the case then what about peers, teachers and others that influence children. Ultimately people are responsible for their own actions.
Any parent who refuses mental health care should be held responsible. They knew about his issues, they were called to the school that morning and refused to take him home, the mother told the father about hallucinations, they bought the fire arm knowing this. It would have been very different had they not known.
The first thing those parents did was sell their horses and went on the run!
They didn’t sell their horses! They were still trying to sell their home & horses long after they were in jail!
My mouth fell open when the judge said, "Are you saying we can't make precedent?" Lawyer lady just because nobody has been charged before doesn't mean there can't be a first.
and there was!
Regarding 8 months prior when EC told them he was having hallucinations and they didn't get him help. That's basic child abuse. If your child told you about a physical ailment which resulted in harm to the child you would be held liable for not doing anything at the time.
I don't know why you expected them to get EC professional help, they gave a kid a gun. That right away tells you the parental dynamic in that household. These people gave their troubled kid a gun, told him not to get caught, and when he gets in trouble they run and hide in a building downtown for days. They shot those in the school that day as much as their son did.
@@bluegreybaby I think they should be charged with child abuse. I can see the jury letting them off on manslaughter because does being a bad parent really equal manslaughter. I wish that can also carry heavy penalties to give the jury an additional option in case they can't agree on manslaughter.
The defense lawyers are not equipped to effectively defend their clients. This case against the parents will make law history, the fact that not one of the skilled, successful & well known defense’s attorneys volunteered to take this case on pro bono, tells me that the Parents will be in jail for years. Undoubtedly they are terrible parents, I’m torn on the charges though, not sure what should happen here.
Your putting a women who went too law school...passed the bar..is a well respected lawyer down..and you? Have you come even close?
These lawyers are failing to point out the manipulation and secrecy that this kid put against the parents. He even admitted to it in his video. That would be the only thing in their corner. They are also failing to point out that the school sent him back to class and didn't check a bag either - so why aren't they charged for welfare liability too?
I think that I read someplace that the school wasn’t going to be held liable because they’re considered a government entity and therefore have protection
I believe the parents and the school missed a chance in helping EC. Therefore, they are both liable in my eyes.
@@susiepummill9391You are correct. No one at the school will be charged because they work for the public school system they end up with immunity from prosecution.
FATHER OF THE YEAR: He filled the forms to BUY A GUN and then gave it to HIS SON as a Christmas Gift !!
WHAT A NICE MAN !! 😂😂😂
God, are you stuck on stupid? The blame is solely on the perpetrator. It's idiotic to keep commenting "parent of the year" your satire sucks, it's not funny and the parents have been blamed ad nauseum, so we all get it.
That seems to be a giant loophole in the system: an adult getting a gun legally and simply giving the gun to their child, who clearly cannot possess the gun legally. There should be charges for that alone.
And he also previously owned 2 guns and had them in his home and the possession of the kid and the kid never did anything so what triggered him now ?
The female attorney is stating that there is no other case: Well, lady, there's always a first time!
Shannon smith being improper again….it’s her character. So unprofessional and disrespectful.
Hi Mary IKR…
If they end up being successful with these charges then they better start charging everyone of these parents whose kids are out here shooting up the the streets in Detroit too and killing people.
Then the parents take him home and spend time with him and talk to him so he’s not alone and you work through things.
This lawyer for defense lost! announced today court of appeals are making them stand trial March 23
Yayyyyyyy!!!! Great decision 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻 Those parents grossly neglected their child. They gave all their attention to their horses and drinking!
I’m glad these judges are getting to the bottom of things while the lawyer for the Crumleys works to deflect. I feel the Crumleys are just as responsible for the deaths. They failed to care for their son, or get care, or do anything that a normal sound parent would do to keep their son and those around him, from being harmed. They purchased a gun for a clearly troubled boy. They knew that he was very troubled on that day, and they had total disregard for his life, and the lives of others. They need to be found guilty.
Why stop at 16? Is there something magic about a child turning 18 that the parents are all of a sudden no longer responsible for their kids actions that the day before the kid turns 18 they are? An awful lot of parents will be going to jail down this slippery slope.
Curse the Darkness, I have 2 thoughts about that.
The first is the majority of Americans believe that parents are responsible for the care and safety of their children.,In this case, the child was 15 years old, and still nice he did not meet our legal definition of the age of an adult, he would be unable to contract for the mental healthcare he needed, even if he wanted to, and had the money himself to pay for it.
This is no different than handing your car keys over to your drunk teenager.
And yes, parents should be, and often are, prosecuted for negligent behavior that made it possible for the loss of life.
This “mom” is criminally responsible for loss of life.
@@PollyAlice2000 In my state you only have to be 14 to consent to medical care, including mental health. He was also charged as an adult, so that would suggest he was not purely a minor. That’s a good example about the car keys, however the prosecution was unable to cite a precedent or specifically what neglectful actions the parents directly took. There’s no question they’re awful parents, but there’s a whole lot of parents that will be going to jail for crimes they didn’t commit if we start adopting this standard.
@@CurseTheDarkness I hear what you're saying, but honestly, although a 14 year old may be allowed to ACCEPT mental health care, I do not believe that this 15 year old had the money to pay for it. If he did not have parents, who are legally responsible for his healthcare in every state that I know about, probably part of a public welfare program would pay for this, but he did and does have parents.
. I don't think that we will find many mothers who are THIS negligent, but if we do, I'm just fine with them being charged and convicted when there were deaths because of it. If either of these parents had provided care when it was needed, they would not be charged. Do you honestly think that there are many moms or dads anywhere who would not swing into action on behalf of their child when they were told by staff at his school that he had "suicidal ideation"?
I just cannot get my head around their failure to act, and I think that the charges are the right ones against Jennifer Crumley.
The parents got EC NO healthcare, not just mental healthcare. They didn't even put him on their healthcare insurance plan at work, which included coverage for mental health care. All the while, they got extensive health care for their horses, and tended to them daily.
And the brunette sounds like a cast member of real housewives of New Jersey.
These attorneys must think that if they keep saying the same thing a judge is going to say, "Okay I get it now". They saw the warning signs, put a gun in this child's hand and ran.
There are going to have to be more options for schools to force kids into mental health care facilities when they show signs of being a danger to themselves or others. Parents can’t be objective about their own kids. These reckless idiots refused to see the problems. Would’ve hurt the mom’s image and pride to get her son help.
And yes. There needs to be increased liability for parents in our gun culture. Yes. They are on your watch. This was incredible to see all of these lawyers in action .
I love Judge Murray the best he’s not letting anything get by their lawyers don’t have a leg 🦵 to stand on
The parents guilt lies in the fact that they are the only ones who knew Ethan had access to a weapon. Ethan wasn't drawing knives, he was drawing guns and bulkets. And keep in mind, he had access to knives based on the photos of his bedroom.
YOU GUYS!
It has occurred to me that Shannon Smith, the second defense attorney making her arguments, was a defense attorney for Larry Nassar.
WOW😢
And look where Nasser ended up. It would be sickening watching her defend him.
Now I like her even less!
I have gotten impression from watching videos that neither the mother nor the father was involved very much with the child.
Put all 3 in prison , maximum penalties
Why imagine if this was u, so let's blame u for what ur brother did because his ur brother and u know him best, u forgot to look under his mattress. That's ridiculous
@@rec.thecritic Get your facts straight. Who bought him the gun? Who was to keep the gun secured and locked ? Who was taking him to target practice? Who knew he had mental problems?
Think before you condemn others....which you feel you can do because your perfect
@@rec.thecritic Its not about a brother. Its about parents of a minor who was allowed to have a gun.
Why wasn’t this child 5150 at the time.
Interesting that they charged the perpetrator as an adult, yet blame the parents for not caring enough for their child. Is he a child? Or an adult?
TURN UP THE VOLUME seriously
I wonder if “these guys” are buying her argument…lol
Shannon Smith needs her license to practice law ripped from her. Geeze, I wouldn’t allow her to argue a speeding ticket.
The questions to the state by the 3 judges, make perfect sense. It is mind boggling how those judges completely ignored the questions they posed, and allowed this case to proceed. I’m hopeful they will vacate the guilty verdict on a sufficiency of the evidence appeal.
When his grades started sliding from A’s and B’s the parents should’ve intervened, spent the time daily, talked with him and really listened to Ethan. When a child’s grades start sliding there’s a reason. It’s up to parents to find out why. The writings, drawings overall attitude should’ve been big red flags for the parents unless they are so dismissed from his life they did not know whether he was up or down. Their actions or non actions contributed to this tragedy.
I went through a stepsons room one day because he was starting to be “different” more negative. I’m happy I did. The drawings I found, the words he wrote and I found were horrific. I went right to the school and called a meeting I called with the principal, superintendent, his youth minister and him. The three men poopooed me. I went farther and got him a therapist and stuck to that boy like glue. He was never alone. Turns out I was right. Some things had happened at school that we didn’t know about. The coach did not do anything about it, in fact when the boy told the coach it made things worse for him. He was suicidal and had had thoughts of harming others at school. You know what you know but you must be watching and involved.
Donna Parrish: The glaring difference you showed here is what parents "should" do to adequately comply with being responsible with parental response and reasonable care compared to what they are minimally legally required to do in providing for when raising their children.
This case may well be directly referred to in the future of lawmaking and in court cases, for how little our laws require of parents in protecting our children from harming themselves or others. Do we have the necessary standards required of us to keep our children and our society safe and protected?
Or can parents be legally literal snakes, give birth and slither away from all accountability for the horrendous results of actions taken by their neglected, ignored or abused children. I think our children and our communities deserve clear laws of responsibility and accountability.
You likely saved your stepson's life and definitely did all you could to give him the best quality of life going forward. Good for you! You exemplified what all parents need to do for children under their care!
All I see is negligence and not caring for the kids will being. The parents need to go for life in prison.
They are arguing that because they are suffering consequences they should not be held accountable. Because they did not foresee any consequences proving they were not negligent?
How they didn't leave this hearing and immediately work out a plea deal is beyond me. You could tell in the first few minutes how this journey was going to go for them.
She said his first and last name. 😖
Between her demeanor, tone, choice of words, interruptions she is very rude and arrogant to these judges! I give them credit for their patients! Her personal stories are ridiculous!
Patience
“you guys”-twice!!!
Did Shannon smith just call the judges “guys” TWICE!!!!
Now that we've seen the mom's trial, it's interesting to learn that Attorney Smith was corrected by the judge for calling the panel "you guys" -- she didn't seem to take the lesson to heart.
I love competent lawyering. Also from the defence (apart from calling the court "you guys" a second time when the court said it was 'the court', not 'you guys'.) Defense legal logic just asked the court to jump to through many loops. Their theory didn't outweigh the most reasonable legal theory.
She is just rude
Your. DUTY as a PARENT !!!!!
They were feuding. They probably hadn't seen each other in weeks. And were 'time-sharing' the house with 'EC'. Specifically, not being in the house for too long while the other parent was present. Because of this tension between them, Jame's mental processes were lagged. It wasn't until he returned to the house, or on the way to it, that he had the mental space to think about checking for the gun. Then he called 911 upon discovering the empty gun case.
They do haveva full duty ....knowing he had issues !!
I had no idea that this is the way Michigan juris prudence works. It is beautiful.
can you hold parents responsible for a child's violence if they are just dumb and mean? maybe. let's see.
The school did NOT know he had a gun.
*IT'S REMARKABLE HOW LITTLE THIS CASE MENTIONS ETHAN'S LACK OF MEDICAL INSURANCE. ANAZING THE SILENCE !!!!*
.
Both parents are clearly very unhinged, as is evidence that they bought there mentally deranged teenager a weapon of war and then failed to put it under lock and key while refusing to provide any mental health care that child was asking for! Let them rot in hell/jail for the life of the child in the hopes that he will be able to heal from their neglect.
Respectfully didn’t one of the parents tell the counselor at the school that they were not going to do anything and if so at that time I
Why is this lady tryung to takr out thr word "parent?
But there as been another case like this.
They have always been so disrespectful for court I'm glad he called him out of that
It’s illegal to buy a kid a gun Isn’t it. YES THEY ARE RESPONSIBLE. WHY NOT? GIVE A KID A GUN DAY IN COURT!
Court wasn’t buying what the lawyers were trying to sell.
The lawyer is actually arguing valid points today, for the first time ever, I actually am agreeing with her.
As a parent, the school has called me and I had to take the child home. HAD TO, not an option like she said the school oked him returning and not even just staying to hang out with the counselor for the remainder of the day, but no they sent him back the classroom with the other kids
What is the Head case they keep referring to?
wondering the same thing
At LEAST respond to his . texting!! Not a good Mother
What the hell, NO SOUND
Im sorry but discounting the obvious earlier red flags when the child tells someone they are suicidal my first question is where is the gun and the second is whats the number for a good therapist. I haven't seen the dad yet but the mum comes across as col,callous and unconcerned
What's becoming clear to me is that the circumstances of this case have been thoroughly vetted before each parent was placed on trial. This isn't the case of some wild-hair prosecutor trying to get an unjustified win.
They locked this boy out of his house the night before. It has been said because he was hallucinating . I don't know that for sure though. Just giving him a gun when he is hallucinating prior to this day is enough. I understand the argument about people having guns, but we are responsible as parents for access even without storage laws. I think this is an extreme example and I'm glad they were charged.
Judge, most rifles for hunting do not hold 5 shells and shotguns hold less, so that a big difference in youth gun activity. Not to mention you do not go to the range an shoot a human target with hunting weapons.
The school was unaware of Ethan was asking for help acknowledging his mental duress, the school did not know he was denied medial/mental care, the school did not know he was given a gun and ammo day prior. Big difference.
Very sick child but the parents were aware the child was off and needed totally supervising. Why would you give a child a gun who was sick and needed to watch closely.
How oblivious is Shannon Smith🫣🙄The Judge said “We’re The Court NOT you guys” and what does the silly women say “you guys” yet again. Does this female actually listen to any voice other than her own??🤷🏻♀️🤷🏻♀️😩🤦🏼♀️
This is not Shannon smith.
Why didn't they argue the fact that the school didn't check the backpack and most schools have metal detection due to other similar events?
Unaccompanied access to firearms for minor children... THAT's the danger.
You can't blame the parents for everything people forget??? Maybe they didn't know how to handle things but that's every human being..... u can't charge another human being just because another did something u didn't know?? Is a miscarriage of justice. They couldn't have known
The parents took monies & ran to hide from law!!!!
Obviously they are accountable....they should be held as though they did the crime!!!!!
If you can’t be a proper parent to teach & guide their kids to be be proper members of society then don’t have them. You instead just let them out onto the unknowing public to wreak havoc on the rest of us. Yes, the buck stops with the parents for bad or absent parenting
How about they locked him out the night before the murder
Her poor kids…
This is a very emotional case, but laws are not based on emotions. It's dangerous territory to create laws that blames others for another persons criminal act (apart from conspiracy). The criminal is the one who should be held accountable and hopefully prosecuted and put away to ensure the safety of society. The parents may be held responsible by other institutions like CPS. Unfortunately there are no laws that dictate only smart and good people can have children.
What Part Of The Parents Bought The Gun For Their Son And They Knew He Was Mentally Unstable That You Did Not Seem To Grasp?
They Are Also Directly Responsible Also For The Deaths Of Young People.
What They Did Was Criminal.
Shannon is such a lop...it's kinda comforting to know the worst of the worst criminal can count on this level of representation...
The dude on the prosecution team is very smart!
She did a way better job here than the actually hearing ..maybe nerves got to her?
There have been cases where juvenile actions of a minor child have resulted in consequences for the parents. It's due to neglect or failure to supervise. Normally, it's more for behaviour like damaging property in actions like throwing a rock through a window or keying a car. The egregious neglect in this case was more than something that can be solved with maybe $1k. 4 people died, yes because of her kid. But had she done anything, she probably wouldn't be looking at prison now.
And here we are today!