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In order to make a significant decrease in sound levels, you really need a large chamber so that sound waves have space to cancel out. Also use the smallest pipe diameter you can get away with for the whole system. Pipe diameter makes a huge difference to boom!
Solid auger style will make difference. Patriot makes an insert. Helmholtz if I'm saying it right, reduces drone. Basically an offset closed ended chamber welded to side of tailpipe
I used to have 2000 Mustang V6 on which I put long tube mufflers. My first muffler on this setup was the Car Chemistry collector inserts. These cut a ton of low end and left a very loud, raspy sound. Then I added the Cherry Bomb Extreme mufflers to the mix. These didn't do much to the low frequencies. But it cut the top end sound and left a warmer overall tone. Finally, I saw these Jones 12" tube turbo mufflers. They look like a glasspack. But internally they are a turbo muffler. These things worked great to tame the sound. Created a really nice warm sound. But they did rob me of a little power. But I didn't care. I could finally use my cell phone in the car without yelling! Now I have a new problem. 2018 Ecoboost Mustang. Everything that I hear online sounds like a tractor with the farts! Wish I had your skills as I would love to try building my own muffler design ideas!
I’ve wondered this dilemma. There are almost zero V6s out there known for an intoxicating sound. As youths, when V6 Camaros and Mustangs with aftermarket exhaust would roll by, we would shake our pre-teen heads wonder why a grownup would dump any money into a V6 ponycar. Now that the stock V6 is unarguably better than the stock V8 from 20 years ago, it makes sense to buy one... except for the exhaust note. Hell, #1 reason I bought the specific motorcycle I did was because of the sound it made. I’m a bit fond of sounds that make children and animals flee, tho. I truly wish you the best of luck.
cincinnatislider So yesterday I'm watching videos of Ecoboost Mustang exhaust clips. My daughter walks in and states that they don't sound good. So then I pull up a video of a Mustang GT and I ask her how it sounds. She says that it sounds much better. Even a 9 year girl can tell the difference!
Very interesting test, not surprising there wasnt a whole lot of difference between the designs. But perhaps it would have been more interesting to measure sound frequencies instead of just the amount of sound to see if the different baffles enhanced or reduced certain frequencies. Would also be interesting to see a few designs using fiberglass packing combined with the various baffle setups you showed in the video. Overall very interesting vid, hope you post more with results!
Thanks! I believe I did look at the "spectrum analysis" at some point in a program on my computer. I don't believe there was a significant difference between the exhaust inserts. I made another video with a home made muffler and it worked better than these inserts.
Let me first say I loved the video! Great experiments and was laid out great! I wanted to say that I’m an engineering student who designed and built a full exhaust system for the Formula SAE team and used the ‘two cone’ or Venturi style muffler design, and as your experiment showed the perforated cones themselves won’t reduce any sound. I’m not sure if this is how mufflers 6 years ago were constructed, but I know that nowadays they have a fiberglass packing which reduces sound. There’s different ways to do that, but essentially you’re creating an absorptive system that reduces high frequencies. This differs from a car to a motorcycle, but from our experience it was the low frequencies that killed us in sound, so we added a quarter-wave or ‘J-pipe’. You can also use a Helmholtz resonator, but we wanted adjustability and it’s a lot harder to change volume rather than length, so J-pipe was what we did. Anyways, I doubt you need the information but I thought I’d share!
Thanks for going to the effort to provide us with this information. I have some Doug's stainless steel sidepipe headers on a 8.1 L Chevy BB engine. I really want to use a muffler that isn't as grossly restrictive and their steel/foberlass inserts. Also I don't want to use those steel inserts. They can rust weld themselves inside the sidepipes and they're difficult to remove.
the spiral mufflers you see now are copies of the ones I made close to 30 years ago and after the patent ran out, everyone was copying them. They were never perforated, and most made out of standard steel. We made 36 inch long for cobra side pipes out of stainless, and shorter mufflers installed in tubes out of stainless for the mazda rotory motors due to the heat. id be interested in if you used them and if so, how they held up. there actually is a reason we had different size center tubes and the reason of split baffles as compared to sold spiral. Id be happy to explain if your interested.
Thanks for your comment, would love to learn more about how they work and what the different sizes of center tubes are for / spiral / split baffles etc. Definitely follow up and explain!
@@EmbraceMaking give me a call and leave a message, because typing everything dosent come out right the way i type.lol 510/415/9225. leave a message because i dont answer numbers i dont know. thats thanks to scam calls and about my cars extended warrantee. (even though my car is a 73) Im west coast so pacific time.
@kevin wallis - I see that you are a person with lots of experience on exhaust systems and even patented your design. Are there any tips that you know, for cancelling out high frequency sounds? I'm aware of that absorption muffler with well packed, the bigger and the longer can, made out of thicker material, works better, but I've been wondering if there is anything else that can be done besides it? I've heard about "pinch can" on Walker's website which was described as the opposite of Helmholtz Resonator, but other than this, I don't really find any other ways of dealing with high frequences. The patient is japanese car with low displacement engine, so any way of making it sound deeper is welcome, otherwise it sounds like a disaster.
A larger exhaust tip will make the sound deeper. About an inch larger than the actual exhaust pipe. If you can afford some length on the pipe it will help also.
Baffles aren't going to do much installed into a random pipe but add back pressure. They need to be _in_ the muffler to bounce the gas/noise outward into the soft muffler packing to make a noticeable difference
I have generally found that with small displacement, even fire (180 degree) engines in particular, so most of your inline 4, 6, and v6 engines, large resonators are your friend to keep the buzzing down. It took 2 resonators, one muffler and cat to make my Celica GTS sound "civilized".
Flowmaster makes the Laminar flow muffler not Magnaflow. By the way they sound great, not to loud to to quite. I also think your test would have worked better if you had room for ceramic wool around the outside of your muffler inserts to absorb the harsh notes. I'm guessing you already know that bit of information. Great job on the video and about showing your test information in a logical manner.
Nice Methodology dude. Good Work. As far as i know the cone baffles should be oposit and have diferent length to each other, bouncing sound waves in a specific way, also adding some fiberglass in a outer tube in betwin the pipe and a inner perfurated cone.
I have the solid auger style in my 2013 cumins. I can say from experience they work amazing. Way better than a flow through resonator or “glass pack” style muffler or resonator. It killed the drone my truck had at interstate speed and also quieted it down in all rpm ranges. I’m thinking of getting an insert for my camaro as it has terrible drone around 1500 rpm.
That's true, however, just using my ears as a basis for what is unacceptably loud... the exhaust was still way too loud that I wouldn't have been satisfied if I had purchased these things. They do not replace a proper muffler.
It makes sense that they don’t work. These things neither absorb the sound like packed straight-through mufflers nor reflect to cancel sound out like chambered mufflers. Those are the 2 main muffling strategies that do work.
You have put a lot of work here to not get any noticeable difference, but anyways was a really good test, you should tested a solid longer and smaller diameter insert
I had a feeling from the beginning of the video there wouldn't be much change in sound since the baffles wherent placed inside a packed muffler. The packing combined with the baffles is what quiets things down. Cool to see no change in back pressure. Would be neat to see the same test done but with the baffles inside a packed muffler.
@@EmbraceMaking perforated material is the key to your failure to quiet the exhaust sound. Instead of thinking about maximizing flow, think about sound waves bouncing back and forth, ultimately canceling some of the noise. Sound travels in straight lines, if you force it to bounce and turn, the sound volume will fall. Try the same baffles with solid sheeting and you will see a larger difference in dbs
the resonance sound you are trying to relieve occurs in a straight pipe not in the bend. sound traveling down the straight pipe encounters back pressure and travels in the opposite direction colliding with the out going pressure/sound. Try your experiment on a straight section of pipe and adjust the position of the baffle in the pipe. Good Luck
You should really look into resonance pipes. They can make your exhaust much quieter without any back pressure at all. There is a formula to figure out the exact length, It essentially makes sound waves cancel each other out.
Interesting vid. I just recently installed a HushPower HP-2 after the axle that has the twin cone baffle in it, does nothing for sound reduction, it’s actually loud which goes against FlowMasters claim but the note it chimes out is really nice, especially on idle. But it’s by no means quiet, i actually feel bad for my neighbours when I start it up at 5am every morning because it’s fitted to a 4.0L straight-six that’s also running a glass pack hotdog haha
@@EmbraceMaking it's not that anyone in particular is amazingly cool. It's really the collection together that makes it interesting. Currently looking to add a Saab 900 to the MR2 and Miata so that I'll have something for Costco runs. Realistically I should probably be looking at something more like a Mazda5, Baja or a Transit connect but the Saab seems kind of like a poor compromise.
@@EmbraceMaking oh and your fiero is actually pretty insane. I appreciate the work that went into this video. As per usual with most things in life I end up with more questions than answers haha.
The whole exhaust system was too much of a straight through system, and I felt like with or without cones I had lost some bottom end grunt... never got it on a dyno but thats how the butt dyno perceived it.
You can do it in carbon fiber or fiberglass on the outside a little bigger than the exhoust pipe and inside two pieces of tube and perforated tube and blanket. I did in mine
I've used bullet resonators like what you've described and found them to be marginally better than the inserts, but still not an adequate replacement for a full size muffler.
Awesome video. I’m getting noise complaints from the neighbors. Trying to find a solution and putting mufflers back on to satisfy neighbors isn’t in the plan. I’m definitely going to subscribe, I like these kind of videos 👍
Hey man. My civic 8th is on a full exhaust system. It's loud but just okay -- on the outside. But inside the cabin, the drone is insanely loud it literally hurts my ears. I was recommended to place another resonator (a total of two resonators would be installed then). My concern is, by having 2 resonators would it affect the setup of my full exhaust? Would it be significantly quieter? And Most importantly, would it guarantee to reduce (or eliminate) the drone? If this helps, My current resonator is 22". I'm not yet sure what size would be placed for the second resonator. I'm assuming it would be the same size.
Longer exit tip. Move sounds away from cabin panels. Use some blankets in the trunk next to the metal. Or use boom mat. The sound is reflecting off panels. Any bare metal panels in the back need a couple 4" squares to kill resonance
That resonator needs to be about 5" dia at 22". Check out a junkyard. What about the stock one? I believe the center exit means the whole hatch and rear area of the vehicle needs sound deadening. Just until the sound is not harsh
A silencer works on the principle of phase cancellation, each element that constitutes it must be placed precisely at the right angle and at the right distance for it to work. You are missing several parameters in the construction of your silencers to conclude your test. For back pressure you should use a gauge in inches of water rather than PSi.
Have you ever run this test with a solid auger like a patriot? I put one ahead of a rather loud MRPB muffler to lower dB and it seems to work great. Definitely curious about added backpressure though. Maybe I’ll check with a vacuum gauge to be sure.
It dropped a bit but how it is perceived by the ear.. it's still way too loud. Also, the setup was so limited in size that there weren't many options other than stuffing these directly into the tube. Obviously not ideal, but they are marketed to work on applications like motorcycles etc so I figured I would give it a shot on the car.
Had a 92 Z24 3.1 Cavalier. When I had no cat and with a Flowmaster, it sounded absolutely horrible. Then I had a Carsound high flow cat put on and actually sounded amazing while not being harsh at all. V6 resonance is awful, but these 60 degree V6's aren't as bad
Because I don't have a crossover from one manifold to the other, the exhaust exit locations are really inconvenient for running the stock exhaust locations
@@EmbraceMaking the forward placed connection actually gives you the room to build the hemholtz and still have room for a single rear exit. The side placement isn't gonna help drone like a dual rear would. But yeah you make a VERY VALID POINT
My 1990 c4 corvette has same grocery store cart fighting door bumper body trim as your fiero by the way. LOL. Couldn't imagine a V8 in that light weight thing! Should be your next addition and UA-cam video to your car!
I would put the auger in it and road test it ...sounded quiter when I had my motorcycle they sold these round things that go inside the pipe called thunder cones some call em loli pops since they bolt into the pipe .you can turn em left or right and tune the sound on my Harley I liked em I actually gained power using them ...
No I wouldn't say that. They have their muffler baffles surrounded by fiberglass packing from what I can see. It should work to reduce the noise like other straight through style mufflers without producing too much restriction. The problem with the inserts is that they don't have the same advantage of the packing and they don't work over large lengths like straight through mufflers so they barely work to reduce any noise.
@@clixt984 I'm waiting for universal inner silencers that are currently shipped. If they don't reduce the drone enough, I'll need a resonator. Tried to do a lot of research and most people tend to lean towards Magnaflow (straight through/glasspack/resonator style) than Flowmaster (typically chambered muffler with baffles) that ends up droning more. However, the Flowmaster DBX/PRO/Super HP have the resonator style (more straight through design), with the cone inside (laminar flow) which may both reduce drone and sound level, but I haven't seen much reviews of it. If there is a resonator that can reduce both drone and noise, I'll happily take that. I'll let you know what I end up doing if I remember. If not, tag me again in this comment section in three months. 😅
Hey man I just want to know how to kill rasp I have a catless exhuast and I have gone through 4 exhuast set ups to try and kill the rasp and theirs still rasp after I lift off the gas.
Thanks for the no nonsense test with proof. Really interesting and nice car. Gonna make me watch some more videos to find out about it. I'll add with that flowmaster muffler it works because it's basically a glasspack. It does have the cones in the center but still has the mat doing the work. Just a gimmick to have a "new" design on the market and not really do anything.
The cones in the FlowMaster laminar flow mufflers are much longer - particularly in the Slimline sidepipe mufflers. I've seen video and dyno results a Cobra owner did when comparing Factory Five sidepipes, FM Slimline muffler sidepipes and another style. The FM Slimlines were the quietest and produced the most HP. These were all behind a 500 HP V8.
From straight pipe to the auger , what did the numbers show on back pressure ? did it go up or did it stay the same . I made my own for my Harley I used a flat 3/4 inch bar bent in a W 3-1/2 with a 2 inch washer in a 3-1/2 pipe it was to big so added 1-1/2 it gave me good back pressure I had made the fuel little rich got a very good burn , I have a 1 inch washer on right now On a long ride it was getting hot 400 miles . Going to Dino it in a few days .
If I remember correctly, none of these had much of an effect on back pressure. I made another video about my home made muffler. This increased backpressure under load at higher rpm to about 2-3psi
You need more surface area for those baffles. Those would be small even by motorcyle standards. That is a terrible place for the exhaust exit. Love the car though.
Look up Mercruiser Resonator ; original is plastic,(water cooled exhaust, for boats,of course) but not here :) like FrostyCoug said (2years ago) just a few posts below,you need to *REFLECT* to *CANCEL* the sound waves; it does that
I messed around with some of this off camera and it really made no difference. At some point I just moved on from the inserts as they weren't very effective in any orientation. I did, however, build my own muffler! If you are interested, check out my channel and you can find the video :)
Back pressure test with no load wouldn't make a proper test. Maybe use a pipe clamp so you can drive around? You might have to use solid pipe for the first few feet of the back pressure tester to keep away from the extra heat under load.
Tried it under load while I was performing these tests and it didn't make much of a difference. At WOT in final gear if I remember correctly they were all around 1-3psi back pressure
Embrace Racing yeah it really It’s like I enjoy being a straight pipe that I was there is a way you could get rid of the rasp sounds with out taking away the sound level but make it sound more crips? Idk if that makes sense To you
I don't know how you came with this conclusion base on this graph because this graph is base on time and sound. How can you know which data is for idle, 2k rpm or 4k rpm. But it is a nice video but wrong graph.
Sigh, there is no solution other than a better designed exhaust and muffler. I have a UUC Corsa replica, gonna be dumping it off, too damn loud and drone-y
Would need a pretty long resonator to make a difference.. didn't have the room. I actually have two bullet resonators already installed and they pretty much do nothing
Soon regulations will be : no sound at all ! The world is crowded densely with noisy combustion driven vehicles, making a noise hell on earth for more and more people.
I can't help but laugh at how much trouble you made for yourself here. Why didn't you just make a couple of extensions and tested them back to back? XD
Not ready to fabricate your own and looking for a ready to go exhaust silencer? To support my channel, check out the link below, as an Amazon associate I may earn a small commission (at no extra cost to you):
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This is what I like. Real testing, by real people that aren't trying to sell something. I love the professionalism. Thank you for the work done.
Thanks! Glad you enjoyed the video!
A real guy doing a real test. Nice job! 👍. Not everything works as advertised.
Thanks, please subscribe as there will be more coming!
In order to make a significant decrease in sound levels, you really need a large chamber so that sound waves have space to cancel out. Also use the smallest pipe diameter you can get away with for the whole system. Pipe diameter makes a huge difference to boom!
Hi, best advice for a deeper exhaust sound for a 2013 1.6L n/a engine? loud without being raspy.
How can I make my rt very quiet
@@Twenty4kArt
Swap to a larger displacement engine.
I love the scientific approach with actual empirical measurements, thanks for this.
No problem, thanks for watching!
You should rap them with steel wool.
Solid auger style will make difference. Patriot makes an insert.
Helmholtz if I'm saying it right, reduces drone. Basically an offset closed ended chamber welded to side of tailpipe
Great job! My exhaust is insanely loud and I was considering these so I could take out the 2K drone. You saved me time and $! Subbed!
Glad I could help! Nice to have another subscriber as well! More to come and hopefully another exhaust related video in the next few months!
I used to have 2000 Mustang V6 on which I put long tube mufflers.
My first muffler on this setup was the Car Chemistry collector inserts. These cut a ton of low end and left a very loud, raspy sound.
Then I added the Cherry Bomb Extreme mufflers to the mix. These didn't do much to the low frequencies. But it cut the top end sound and left a warmer overall tone.
Finally, I saw these Jones 12" tube turbo mufflers. They look like a glasspack. But internally they are a turbo muffler. These things worked great to tame the sound. Created a really nice warm sound. But they did rob me of a little power. But I didn't care. I could finally use my cell phone in the car without yelling!
Now I have a new problem. 2018 Ecoboost Mustang. Everything that I hear online sounds like a tractor with the farts! Wish I had your skills as I would love to try building my own muffler design ideas!
I’ve wondered this dilemma. There are almost zero V6s out there known for an intoxicating sound. As youths, when V6 Camaros and Mustangs with aftermarket exhaust would roll by, we would shake our pre-teen heads wonder why a grownup would dump any money into a V6 ponycar. Now that the stock V6 is unarguably better than the stock V8 from 20 years ago, it makes sense to buy one... except for the exhaust note. Hell, #1 reason I bought the specific motorcycle I did was because of the sound it made. I’m a bit fond of sounds that make children and animals flee, tho. I truly wish you the best of luck.
cincinnatislider
So yesterday I'm watching videos of Ecoboost Mustang exhaust clips. My daughter walks in and states that they don't sound good. So then I pull up a video of a Mustang GT and I ask her how it sounds. She says that it sounds much better. Even a 9 year girl can tell the difference!
Very interesting test, not surprising there wasnt a whole lot of difference between the designs. But perhaps it would have been more interesting to measure sound frequencies instead of just the amount of sound to see if the different baffles enhanced or reduced certain frequencies. Would also be interesting to see a few designs using fiberglass packing combined with the various baffle setups you showed in the video. Overall very interesting vid, hope you post more with results!
Thanks! I believe I did look at the "spectrum analysis" at some point in a program on my computer. I don't believe there was a significant difference between the exhaust inserts. I made another video with a home made muffler and it worked better than these inserts.
Let me first say I loved the video! Great experiments and was laid out great! I wanted to say that I’m an engineering student who designed and built a full exhaust system for the Formula SAE team and used the ‘two cone’ or Venturi style muffler design, and as your experiment showed the perforated cones themselves won’t reduce any sound. I’m not sure if this is how mufflers 6 years ago were constructed, but I know that nowadays they have a fiberglass packing which reduces sound. There’s different ways to do that, but essentially you’re creating an absorptive system that reduces high frequencies. This differs from a car to a motorcycle, but from our experience it was the low frequencies that killed us in sound, so we added a quarter-wave or ‘J-pipe’. You can also use a Helmholtz resonator, but we wanted adjustability and it’s a lot harder to change volume rather than length, so J-pipe was what we did. Anyways, I doubt you need the information but I thought I’d share!
Amazing work done. Thank you for the time you put. The least I can is like and subscribe
Thanks for the sub!
Thanks for taking the time to do this!!
No problem, thanks for watching!
Thanks for going to the effort to provide us with this information. I have some Doug's stainless steel sidepipe headers on a 8.1 L Chevy BB engine. I really want to use a muffler that isn't as grossly restrictive and their steel/foberlass inserts. Also I don't want to use those steel inserts. They can rust weld themselves inside the sidepipes and they're difficult to remove.
the spiral mufflers you see now are copies of the ones I made close to 30 years ago and after the patent ran out, everyone was copying them. They were never perforated, and most made out of standard steel. We made 36 inch long for cobra side pipes out of stainless, and shorter mufflers installed in tubes out of stainless for the mazda rotory motors due to the heat. id be interested in if you used them and if so, how they held up. there actually is a reason we had different size center tubes and the reason of split baffles as compared to sold spiral. Id be happy to explain if your interested.
Thanks for your comment, would love to learn more about how they work and what the different sizes of center tubes are for / spiral / split baffles etc. Definitely follow up and explain!
@@EmbraceMaking give me a call and leave a message, because typing everything dosent come out right the way i type.lol 510/415/9225. leave a message because i dont answer numbers i dont know. thats thanks to scam calls and about my cars extended warrantee. (even though my car is a 73) Im west coast so pacific time.
@kevin wallis - I see that you are a person with lots of experience on exhaust systems and even patented your design. Are there any tips that you know, for cancelling out high frequency sounds? I'm aware of that absorption muffler with well packed, the bigger and the longer can, made out of thicker material, works better, but I've been wondering if there is anything else that can be done besides it? I've heard about "pinch can" on Walker's website which was described as the opposite of Helmholtz Resonator, but other than this, I don't really find any other ways of dealing with high frequences. The patient is japanese car with low displacement engine, so any way of making it sound deeper is welcome, otherwise it sounds like a disaster.
A larger exhaust tip will make the sound deeper. About an inch larger than the actual exhaust pipe. If you can afford some length on the pipe it will help also.
Baffles aren't going to do much installed into a random pipe but add back pressure. They need to be _in_ the muffler to bounce the gas/noise outward into the soft muffler packing to make a noticeable difference
excellent result analysis.
I have generally found that with small displacement, even fire (180 degree) engines in particular, so most of your inline 4, 6, and v6 engines, large resonators are your friend to keep the buzzing down. It took 2 resonators, one muffler and cat to make my Celica GTS sound "civilized".
Yeah unfortunately mine is anything but civilized still lol
Also the right length of pipe and the optimal exit point. Under the cabin is going to require a lot of tar mat.
Flowmaster makes the Laminar flow muffler not Magnaflow. By the way they sound great, not to loud to to quite. I also think your test would have worked better if you had room for ceramic wool around the outside of your muffler inserts to absorb the harsh notes. I'm guessing you already know that bit of information. Great job on the video and about showing your test information in a logical manner.
Thanks Mike! I appreciate the feedback. The wool would have been a nice addition as you stated, had I had the space for it.
excellent empirical study and great video. Thank you.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Very good video, I did like the auger sound , ok it was not much quieter but had a nicer sound ..
Thanks! It was okay, but still too loud
Nice Methodology dude. Good Work. As far as i know the cone baffles should be oposit and have diferent length to each other, bouncing sound waves in a specific way, also adding some fiberglass in a outer tube in betwin the pipe and a inner perfurated cone.
thank you for this test. saves me a lot of time, work and money.
it would be interesting to know also the back pressure at 6000 rpm
I have the solid auger style in my 2013 cumins. I can say from experience they work amazing. Way better than a flow through resonator or “glass pack” style muffler or resonator. It killed the drone my truck had at interstate speed and also quieted it down in all rpm ranges. I’m thinking of getting an insert for my camaro as it has terrible drone around 1500 rpm.
I'm glad you had a better experience! How long are the augers that you are running? Maybe the length has something to do with it as well.
Was the auger style just in a straight pipe or did it have insulation around it also?
remember decibels is a logarithmic measure, a gain from 1 to 2 is a doubling of the sound pressure so 125 to 120 is significant
That's true, however, just using my ears as a basis for what is unacceptably loud... the exhaust was still way too loud that I wouldn't have been satisfied if I had purchased these things. They do not replace a proper muffler.
It makes sense that they don’t work. These things neither absorb the sound like packed straight-through mufflers nor reflect to cancel sound out like chambered mufflers. Those are the 2 main muffling strategies that do work.
I'd ask to have the spiral baffles with just a insulation pack around baffles and see if that works
You have put a lot of work here to not get any noticeable difference, but anyways was a really good test, you should tested a solid longer and smaller diameter insert
Yep, sometimes it doesn't always work out and that in itself is the result of the experiment!
I had a feeling from the beginning of the video there wouldn't be much change in sound since the baffles wherent placed inside a packed muffler. The packing combined with the baffles is what quiets things down. Cool to see no change in back pressure. Would be neat to see the same test done but with the baffles inside a packed muffler.
I'm going to do another video by the end of the summer... I'm just going to tear all of this out and start over with a better exhaust!
@@EmbraceMaking perforated material is the key to your failure to quiet the exhaust sound. Instead of thinking about maximizing flow, think about sound waves bouncing back and forth, ultimately canceling some of the noise. Sound travels in straight lines, if you force it to bounce and turn, the sound volume will fall. Try the same baffles with solid sheeting and you will see a larger difference in dbs
the resonance sound you are trying to relieve occurs in a straight pipe not in the bend. sound traveling down the straight pipe encounters back pressure and travels in the opposite direction colliding with the out going pressure/sound. Try your experiment on a straight section of pipe and adjust the position of the baffle in the pipe. Good Luck
Thanks for the tips! I might just redesign the whole system soon anyways
His exhaust does not create any measurable backpressure.
I wonder how these inserts would perform in a resonator. Like the small profile vibrant ones
Not sure... do you have a link to the small ones you're talking about?
Excellent, thanks.
you're welcome!
Another baffle at the exit would have been interesting
Like a super trapp ?
You should really look into resonance pipes. They can make your exhaust much quieter without any back pressure at all. There is a formula to figure out the exact length, It essentially makes sound waves cancel each other out.
That was the problem I was having... the required length was too long and I didn't have room for it
Interesting vid. I just recently installed a HushPower HP-2 after the axle that has the twin cone baffle in it, does nothing for sound reduction, it’s actually loud which goes against FlowMasters claim but the note it chimes out is really nice, especially on idle. But it’s by no means quiet, i actually feel bad for my neighbours when I start it up at 5am every morning because it’s fitted to a 4.0L straight-six that’s also running a glass pack hotdog haha
Great collection of cars.
Thanks! Any particular one your favorite?
@@EmbraceMaking it's not that anyone in particular is amazingly cool. It's really the collection together that makes it interesting. Currently looking to add a Saab 900 to the MR2 and Miata so that I'll have something for Costco runs. Realistically I should probably be looking at something more like a Mazda5, Baja or a Transit connect but the Saab seems kind of like a poor compromise.
@@EmbraceMaking oh and your fiero is actually pretty insane. I appreciate the work that went into this video. As per usual with most things in life I end up with more questions than answers haha.
The big thing to know is what the cones do for your bottom end torque. When driving, did you experience more power around 2500 rpm with the cones?
The whole exhaust system was too much of a straight through system, and I felt like with or without cones I had lost some bottom end grunt... never got it on a dyno but thats how the butt dyno perceived it.
@@EmbraceMaking Ah, got it. Thanks man!
You can do it in carbon fiber or fiberglass on the outside a little bigger than the exhoust pipe and inside two pieces of tube and perforated tube and blanket. I did in mine
I've used bullet resonators like what you've described and found them to be marginally better than the inserts, but still not an adequate replacement for a full size muffler.
@@EmbraceMaking awesome, you have V6 engine, you though to create two mufflers?
Very interesting video, thanks....do you think the various baffles not necessarily reduced the dB, but think the frequency may have?
Very good video
Thanks!
Wrap steel whool around the spiral one, i bet it would work wonders
Awesome video. I’m getting noise complaints from the neighbors. Trying to find a solution and putting mufflers back on to satisfy neighbors isn’t in the plan. I’m definitely going to subscribe, I like these kind of videos 👍
Thank you for the kind words! Very important to keep the neighbors happy :p
This was awesome! Thanks for doing a real test.
Glad you found it interesting!
Hey man. My civic 8th is on a full exhaust system. It's loud but just okay -- on the outside. But inside the cabin, the drone is insanely loud it literally hurts my ears. I was recommended to place another resonator (a total of two resonators would be installed then).
My concern is, by having 2 resonators would it affect the setup of my full exhaust? Would it be significantly quieter? And Most importantly, would it guarantee to reduce (or eliminate) the drone?
If this helps, My current resonator is 22". I'm not yet sure what size would be placed for the second resonator. I'm assuming it would be the same size.
Longer exit tip. Move sounds away from cabin panels. Use some blankets in the trunk next to the metal. Or use boom mat. The sound is reflecting off panels. Any bare metal panels in the back need a couple 4" squares to kill resonance
That resonator needs to be about 5" dia at 22". Check out a junkyard. What about the stock one? I believe the center exit means the whole hatch and rear area of the vehicle needs sound deadening. Just until the sound is not harsh
I'd be really interested to see how much back pressure is caused by the inserts you can buy.
Nice bro
I have deleted my Yukon muffler
Do you think the baffles can help to reduce the sound inside cabin?
Should have used some of that heat tape on the auger style to see what a solid one would do.
A silencer works on the principle of phase cancellation, each element that constitutes it must be placed precisely at the right angle and at the right distance for it to work. You are missing several parameters in the construction of your silencers to conclude your test. For back pressure you should use a gauge in inches of water rather than PSi.
Even it may be loud, that Fiero looks, and sounds really good. Is it the V6?
Yes this is the 3800SC V6 from the grand prix GTP
@@EmbraceMaking That must be ridiculous fun
Very interesting!
I wonder if a tesla valve exhaust would be great?
Have you ever run this test with a solid auger like a patriot? I put one ahead of a rather loud MRPB muffler to lower dB and it seems to work great. Definitely curious about added backpressure though. Maybe I’ll check with a vacuum gauge to be sure.
Haven't tried it, would like to know your results
The DB dropped a lot kinda confused how you said it didn’t work? Also just stuffing it in a straight tube isn’t the best way to silence it
It dropped a bit but how it is perceived by the ear.. it's still way too loud. Also, the setup was so limited in size that there weren't many options other than stuffing these directly into the tube. Obviously not ideal, but they are marketed to work on applications like motorcycles etc so I figured I would give it a shot on the car.
Had a 92 Z24 3.1 Cavalier. When I had no cat and with a Flowmaster, it sounded absolutely horrible. Then I had a Carsound high flow cat put on and actually sounded amazing while not being harsh at all. V6 resonance is awful, but these 60 degree V6's aren't as bad
Hemholtz resonator chamber. Split to smaller resonater dual tips... Run them out the back where they were stock.
Because I don't have a crossover from one manifold to the other, the exhaust exit locations are really inconvenient for running the stock exhaust locations
@@EmbraceMaking the forward placed connection actually gives you the room to build the hemholtz and still have room for a single rear exit. The side placement isn't gonna help drone like a dual rear would. But yeah you make a VERY VALID POINT
Flowmaster is the laminar flow patent holder not magnaflow
Thanks for watching and catching that!
Will any of these help with drone
Nope... need a proper resonator.
Super 👍
This is helpful but taming 3"+ exhaust is it's own separate challenge! My vette has been a real nightmare.
My 1990 c4 corvette has same grocery store cart fighting door bumper body trim as your fiero by the way. LOL. Couldn't imagine a V8 in that light weight thing! Should be your next addition and UA-cam video to your car!
Ha, yes they were cars of a similar era! My Fiero has the supercharged 3.8L out of a Regal GS (same as the Gran Prix GTP). Goes pretty quick!
The disc baffles would have made a difference. You should've tested them
Back pressure is a figure of speech, you what flow.
Thanks. Good old 60 degree v6?
I herd the auger made of sheet metal works pretty good.
60 degree, yes but its the 3800SC engine from grand prix gtp
I would put the auger in it and road test it ...sounded quiter when I had my motorcycle they sold these round things that go inside the pipe called thunder cones some call em loli pops since they bolt into the pipe .you can turn em left or right and tune the sound on my Harley I liked em I actually gained power using them ...
did he ever show the back pressure?
I’m not 100% sure but I think a lot of those types of baffles are meant to cutting interior drone from exhaust not tailpipe.
Hi Rick, maybe you're right? I'm not 100% sure but a reduction in interior noise would be beneficial for this set up too.
So would you say Flowmaster's laminar flow is non sense then?
No I wouldn't say that. They have their muffler baffles surrounded by fiberglass packing from what I can see. It should work to reduce the noise like other straight through style mufflers without producing too much restriction. The problem with the inserts is that they don't have the same advantage of the packing and they don't work over large lengths like straight through mufflers so they barely work to reduce any noise.
Embrace Racing gotcha, thanks for clarifying that. I'm thinking of getting either the DBX or PRO muffler so I thought I'd ask.
@@clixt984 Did you end up getting either one of them?
@@kenugget9593 not yet but planned. I'm sort of thinking of upgrading my car right now hence the delay. Let me though if you do get it.
@@clixt984 I'm waiting for universal inner silencers that are currently shipped. If they don't reduce the drone enough, I'll need a resonator. Tried to do a lot of research and most people tend to lean towards Magnaflow (straight through/glasspack/resonator style) than Flowmaster (typically chambered muffler with baffles) that ends up droning more. However, the Flowmaster DBX/PRO/Super HP have the resonator style (more straight through design), with the cone inside (laminar flow) which may both reduce drone and sound level, but I haven't seen much reviews of it. If there is a resonator that can reduce both drone and noise, I'll happily take that.
I'll let you know what I end up doing if I remember. If not, tag me again in this comment section in three months. 😅
Oke good
Thank you
Olen itsekin joskus laittanut tuollaisen reikäkartion vaimentimeen.
i bet that would get old driving with jersey walls up on the right side, or walls reflecting the noise back in the open window.
Hey man I just want to know how to kill rasp I have a catless exhuast and I have gone through 4 exhuast set ups to try and kill the rasp and theirs still rasp after I lift off the gas.
Might need a big resonator?
Embrace Racing just made it quieter still has rasp when I lift off the throttle
please test aero turbine exhaust style...
Do you have a link to show what you mean by "turbine style?"
@@EmbraceMaking ua-cam.com/video/iDTTOa77efs/v-deo.html this it is bro....
Thanks for the no nonsense test with proof. Really interesting and nice car. Gonna make me watch some more videos to find out about it.
I'll add with that flowmaster muffler it works because it's basically a glasspack. It does have the cones in the center but still has the mat doing the work. Just a gimmick to have a "new" design on the market and not really do anything.
Thanks neo! I agree, I don't see the cones being the "make it or break it" part of those exhausts.
The cones in the FlowMaster laminar flow mufflers are much longer - particularly in the Slimline sidepipe mufflers. I've seen video and dyno results a Cobra owner did when comparing Factory Five sidepipes, FM Slimline muffler sidepipes and another style. The FM Slimlines were the quietest and produced the most HP. These were all behind a 500 HP V8.
From straight pipe to the auger , what did the numbers show on back pressure ? did it go up or did it stay the same . I made my own for my Harley I used a flat 3/4 inch bar bent in a W 3-1/2 with a 2 inch washer in a 3-1/2 pipe it was to big so added 1-1/2 it gave me good back pressure I had made the fuel little rich got a very good burn , I have a 1 inch washer on right now On a long ride it was getting hot 400 miles . Going to Dino it in a few days .
If I remember correctly, none of these had much of an effect on back pressure. I made another video about my home made muffler. This increased backpressure under load at higher rpm to about 2-3psi
You need more surface area for those baffles. Those would be small even by motorcyle standards. That is a terrible place for the exhaust exit. Love the car though.
Look up Mercruiser Resonator ; original is plastic,(water cooled exhaust, for boats,of course) but not here :) like FrostyCoug said (2years ago) just a few posts below,you need to *REFLECT* to *CANCEL* the sound waves; it does that
makes one wonder how a gun silencer works...shouldn't that be a model to work with?
These baffles are supposed to go into a straight through muffler, not just a piece of pipe. You won't get much out of putting this in straight pipe.
Put the triple come facing the other way that might work better because it catches differently
I messed around with some of this off camera and it really made no difference. At some point I just moved on from the inserts as they weren't very effective in any orientation. I did, however, build my own muffler! If you are interested, check out my channel and you can find the video :)
did you try a sock?🤔
Sounds flammable lol
Back pressure test with no load wouldn't make a proper test. Maybe use a pipe clamp so you can drive around? You might have to use solid pipe for the first few feet of the back pressure tester to keep away from the extra heat under load.
Tried it under load while I was performing these tests and it didn't make much of a difference. At WOT in final gear if I remember correctly they were all around 1-3psi back pressure
I don’t mind being straight pipe but I just hate having a raspy sound. It’s terrible on my car
Having a nasty sound is never pleasant... it gets annoying over time
Embrace Racing yeah it really It’s like I enjoy being a straight pipe that I was there is a way you could get rid of the rasp sounds with out taking away the sound level but make it sound more crips? Idk if that makes sense To you
Sounds like the job for an audio engineer to design you a muffler ;)
Embrace Racing shit if you could do a 3inch straight through pipe about 6inch long I’d be willing to pay up
Lots of work, sorry man, trying to quiet my exhaust too for normal driving will keep with my brillo pads for now lol
It was a lot of work for sure! I saved you from having to experiment yourself :)
Brillo pads! have to try them out for next track event day :)
@ 6:30 Damn I have this song somewhere and cannot remember it!! Anyone know???
Nuo toimii paremmin jos asennat nuo normaalin reikäputki villa vaimentimen sisään. Ne ohjaa ääntä silloin villoihin tehokkaammin.
I don't know how you came with this conclusion base on this graph because this graph is base on time and sound. How can you know which data is for idle, 2k rpm or 4k rpm. But it is a nice video but wrong graph.
I know roughly when I actuated the throttle (time) and you can see the audible difference between the levels.
Sigh, there is no solution other than a better designed exhaust and muffler. I have a UUC Corsa replica, gonna be dumping it off, too damn loud and drone-y
It's tough to design an effective muffler in a super tight space
@@EmbraceMaking Resonators help, but it is
tiny engine + 3in pipes equals no back pressure. no back pressure = no noise reduction
How tiny is tiny? 3.8L isn't all that tiny but that would seem subjective...
thats a lot of power robing bends. Why not get a small resonator for sound reduction? maybe that would create too much back pressure?
Would need a pretty long resonator to make a difference.. didn't have the room. I actually have two bullet resonators already installed and they pretty much do nothing
modified supertrapp?
Soon regulations will be : no sound at all !
The world is crowded densely with noisy combustion driven vehicles, making a noise hell on earth for more and more people.
My exhaust is too loud and I hate it now. I'm going to do another video and fix it :)
@@EmbraceMaking I send you a friendly hug !
There is no packing material inside of the pipe, there is no chamber for the sound, so there can't be no real difference
Word
9
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I can't help but laugh at how much trouble you made for yourself here. Why didn't you just make a couple of extensions and tested them back to back? XD
o
If you tripled the length of the auger it might just work
Probably would work better, in my application I just didn't have the space though