Months leading up to the East Palestine train derailment NS 32N was getting longer & longer
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- Опубліковано 7 лис 2024
- Months leading up to the East Palestine train derailment NS 32N the train that derailed was getting longer & longer and on the day of 2022-10-30 it was a total length. • What Are They Hiding??... check out this video of the train derailment form Springfield, Ohio.
More than a year has passed and I cannot find the number of locomotives that were pulling the 32n on the day of the derailment.
From NTSB sources I do know that it was being led by 4178
About 4 years ago, my friend & I were train watching in Indiana. There was a csx freight waiting for a relief crew. The new crew climbed aboard and the dispatcher said the train was 13,000 + feet long. We heard this on the scanner. That train was almost 3 miles long! There is increased stress on equipment with long trains. So to cut down on this, railroads use a DPU. This is a "distributed Power Unit". They will cut in locomotives in the middle and end of the train as seen here. These are radio controlled from the lead locomotive. When my Dad was on the C&O the max length was 1 mile. With a 3 mile long train, they are making one train and two trainmen do the work of 6 people & 3 trains. This saves $$$$$ to the company. Long trains can be difficult to control and puts more stress on the train crew. The question is; Where was the hot box detector or defect detector which could have warned the crew of trouble thus avoiding this accident. Greed over safety.
Yes profit over human lives
3 miles = 15840 feet. 15840 is more than 13000+ feet. So, the dispatcher was correct.
Once upon a time...
I’ve built multiple trains that were 3 miles long in Enola, Pa. It’s a nightmare to do because of track length, radio problems, power issues, siding length on the main, etc…etc…etc
Wait … you just said that there are DPUs in the middle… that means that it is essentially multiple trains coupled together with a single crew… The issue is more likely the defect detector failing to notice a hung truck … I am more concerned about waiting for equipment to fail to change rather that scheduled service intervals and precise record keeping… in the long run, preventive maintenance is cheaper … unless you have an MBA from Harvard…🤬
@@glennfoster2423 Math is racist, don't you know (tongue planted firmly in cheek)?
The top 3 shareholders of NS are The Vanguard Group, JPMorgan, and BlackRock. Their only care is profit at any cost.
All three are shareholders in the Big news channels too. Conflict of interest that's why the news wasn't talking about the derailment.
@@therailroadtiespiker They're too busy with spy balloons and Biden in the Ukraine
(They own every major public company)
They also can pay anyone they want off to push government policies through Congress.
We have a real problem here. The U.S. Government can be bought. For cheap.
Just like I said, it's the institutional shareholders.
With their extra long trains, the railroads have total disregard for the public as they'll block crossings for sometimes an hour or longer. PSR was supposed to better serve the railroad customers. Don't let them kid you, it's to better serve the stockholders and the "bottom line" We had a saying when I worked on the railroad. "Up hill slow, down hill fast, tonnage first, safety last."
The savings Norfolk Southern has gained by running on the knife edge, pale in comparison to the clean-up bill and cost to people of small-town America. Thanks Tie Spiker for this example of 'running the gauntlet' with people's lives and property. 🇦🇺🇺🇸👍
Yes you're right. I did find another video I shot back in 2020 of NS 32N going through Delhi Indiana with almost the same consistent it had on February 3 doind track speed of 49 mph and now I realize how scary it is too realize what he's carrying.
@The Railroad Tie Spiker Yes indeed. This derailment had the potential to be another Lac Megsntic, where lessons where supposed to be learnt and train companies were given leniency and extra time to come up to the new standards! Cheers mate 👍
They ain’t gonna do a whole lot of cleaning, those chemicals are in the air and in the water. Nothing gonna be able to clean that up. They just destroyed millions of peoples water supply and thousands of peoples homes.
Thank buttigieg for not doing his job for the past two years.
@K B The Fish rots at the head K B, mate! Uncle Joe is leading the US down a dark path. In Australia we are in the same boat with high inflation exorbitant land prices & high fuel costs. And all this they blame either Russia or they're own people! I will stop now or I will rant all day! Thanks mate 👍 🇺🇸🇦🇺
Greedy corporate executives are the disease. Precision Scheduled Railroading is the symptom. Regulation of railroads is the cure.
Actually, the main source of the problem are these hedgefund activists who push for such things like cost cutting and related things just to achieve a lower OR and higher profit. They’re the ones who’ve caused most of this trouble.
13K feet or 15K feet are way to long. Hard to start, hard to stop, hard to keep going without breaking a knuckle. Never a siding long enough for a meet. Railroading has sucked lately because of Hunter Harrison. Providing value to the share holder, that's what it's all about. 10% not enough, we got to have 33% return or don't even try. Good video.
I live in Salem Ohio. I work and live within a 1/2 mile of the tracks that go to East Paleinstine. I often sit at the intersection where the video showed the car on fire as it went through town. I'm feeling it for EP as it was so close to being right here. The wind has also been in our favor.
I've counted cars and it's rare to not get to 100 or more. The trains are moving at a decent clip. If they ran slower at these lengths it would take forever to clear the intersections. It's a no win situation.
When I stop for a train I hang back fairly far. I've noticed that when I see derailed train they don't stay on their side of the crossing gate. The funny thing is I've had people honk at me for not pulling up closer. It's not like the train is waiting on me to trip a signal. Now that I've hear there are about 1,000 derailments a year I feel even more justified.
I grew up in Massillon and was back to visit this past weekend and saw I believe was 35N a West bound train and wow it had to be close to 150 cars it was moving about 30 mph and took over 5 minutes to pass the crossing.
Check out the dash cam video of the rr crossing derailment couple days ago in Clark County. Exactly as you described. The driver of the car fortunately had nobody behind him and was able to back up as the railcars were smashing the crossing to bits.
@@gfriedman99 Thanks for the heads up. Found the raw dashcam footage on UA-cam as "Dash cam footage captures Springfield, Ohio train derailment" posted by "KPRC 2 Click2Houston".
@@richshealer3755 That driver also doesn't pull up to the white stripe closer to the tracks. Looks like he stopped a couple car lengths behind it.
@@richshealer3755 Thanks for posting where you found it. There is a crossing near where I live and folks pull right up to the gates. It's almost all coal trains and not as fast as that one but people are clueless.
Union pacific is just as bad. We had a train over 2 miles long that stopped out side of town and blocked every crossing. Of we had an emergency we couldn't get fire trucks through town. Watched a BNSF coal train once in Arkansas that had 2 engines in front 4 in the middle and 3 in the rear. They had put 3 coal trains together
It's this precision schedule railroading crap that's causing so much destruction.
Yes it is!!!!!
The only thing precision about it is precisely eliminating the salaries of the desperately needed additional personnel!
Shorter, faster, more nimble trains run faster and are safer. Two 75 car trains make more sense than one 150 car train.
no its not the precicion scedule. That is soooo wrong.
Its the profits that do such things.
@@TheBlackfall234 they're all on a race to bottom cutting whatever to bare bones. Started around when we lost the caboose, really.
Just a personal observation, that when a train is pulling toxic materials the length should be limited to a small number of cars. I guess they figure that extra trains and crews are worth the cost of clean-ups and lawsuits.
It's important to understand the difference between hazmat cars and toxic cars. Once the fire starts, almost all of the cars on a mixed freight manifest freight train become toxic. There was one car in the middle carrying frozen vegetables, so it was probably safe.
@@ArtStoneUS a few years back a CSX train carrying onions derailed in Wellington, Ohio. No injuries, but the train burned from the diesel fuel in the reefer units and cooked the onions. My mom & pop could smell it from 2 miles away. It was funny at the time, but now I can’t help but think “toxic cloud” every time I see a train. None of us should have to live like this. I’m in Cleveland…we’re literally surrounded everywhere by trains.
If the potential law suits are estimated at a Million Dollars and the safety measures needed to avoid this a Million dollars plus one cent guess which one any of the efficient modern executives will choose. No prizes for guessing.
It boils down to one thing. Greed! The railroads are making record profits with less & less employees.
Yep that's exactly right.
Fear not, we have a highly qualified Secretary of Transportation to handle these things. As soon as he fixes our racist highways I'm sure he'll get right on it.
everything the government, Wall Street, and corporate America touches turns to crap.
@@paulhare662 ? You talking about the Rear Admiral?
YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT!YOU SEE HOW THEY TOOK THE CABOOSES OFF THE TRAINS, THEY ALSO TOOK MANY JOBS AWAY, THEY STARTED USING GPS,AND THEY PUT UNMANNED LOCOMOTIVES IN THE MIDDLE OF THE TRAINS, ANS PUT PSR ON THE RAILROADS! WHATS DANGEROUS ABOUT THESE UNMANNED LOCOMOTIVES IS THAT IF TGEY GET A BAD SIGNAL,THEY WILL KEEP ON PUSHING AND PULLING UNTIL THEY DERAIL THE WHOLE TRAIN!YOU SEE, THERE WAS A TIME WHEN IF YOU QERE AT TRACKSIDE, AND YOU SAW SOMETHING WRONG,AND THE TRAIN WAS GOING SLOW ENOUGH FOR YOU TO TELL THE CREW ON THE END OF THE TRAIN,THAT SOMETHING WAS GOING WRONG, THEY WOULD STOP THE TRAIN AND INVESTIGATE THE SITUATION!BUT NOW, SINCE THE CABOOSES WERE TAKEN AWAY, IT IS DIFFICULT TO LET THE CREW KNOW ANYTHING! ANOTHER PROBLEM IS THE DPU LOCOMOTIVES IN THE MIDDLE OF THE TRAIN. IF ONE OF THEM CATCHES FIRE, THE HEAD END CREW HAS NO WAY OF KNOWING WHAT IS HAPPENING! RECENTLY, BNSF HAD A LOCOMOTIV DPU AT THE END OF A TRAIN TO CATCH FIRE,AND YET, THEY KEPT GOING UNTIL SOMEONE ALERTED THE HEAD END CREW THAT THEY HAD A FIRE ON THE END OF THE TRAIN! AND BECAUSE OF THE RECENT DERAILMENT OF A NS TRAIN HAULING HAZARDOUS CHEMICALS, THE CABOOSE LAW MUST BE APPEALED! AND THE CABOOSE SHOULD BE RETURNED, ALONG WITH FULL CREWS!BOTH UP FRONT, AND AT THE REAR OF ALL TRAINS!AND ABOLISH THIS PSR,AND THE DPUS ON ALL TRAINS! JUST TWO DAYS LATER, NS HAD YET ANOTHER DERAILMENT INVOLVING SOME TANK CARS ,BUT THEY DIDNT CAUSE ENOUGH DAMAGE TO LEAK! MY CONCLUSION, ABOLISH THIS PSR, STOP USING DPUS,AND, BRING THECABOOSES BACK,ALONG WITH FULL CREWS! AND, INSPECT ALL FREIGHT CAR AXLES,AND BRAKES,AND INSPECT AND REPORT ANY DAMAGE TO THE REPAIR SHOPS,AND GET RID OF THIS GPS!FOR IT IS SUBJECTED TO FAILURES!
We used those engines NS from run through to California and they sucked being in the cabs for helpers.
The exhaust from the Engine builds up thru the tunnels and leak into cabs.
BAD! I was on the ground trying to keep from passing out on the floor..Tehachapi is rough as it is...
Several year back, there was a derailment in Memphis Tennessee Where the track crossed Highland Ave. One block from Memphis State University, which has thousands of students. Several gondola cars turned over .Southern Ave, was blocked for hours. It did not make the news, although it was blocks away from a television station.
When I worked for the Railroad, starting on the B&O in Baltimore, ending on the BN in Denver, trains rarely exceeded 7,000 feet in total length, and they had cabooses with two well-paid people riding in them. The people would watch the train, looking for stuff that might go wrong such as sliding wheel, or burning bearings. Should they sense something wrong they could apply the train brakes in a controlled manner, the reduction in brake-pipe pressure and brake application a signal to the engineer to do the same and reduce the throttle and stop the train. A member of the crew, a brakeman or conductor, would walk to the offending piece of equipment and apply a remedy. That might be as simple as turning a valve to cut out the brakes on that car, or as time-consuming as setting that car out of the train.
Then the bean-counters took over railroads, preaching an ideology called corporate culture, part of the 1980's Reaganomics neoliberal revolution.
Those two pairs of eyes and the cabooses were eliminated from trains, the bean counters deciding that extra layer of safety not worth the expense.
Need I speak to Precision Scheduling Railroading?
When the cost to shareholder value exceeds the monetized value of such well-established methods to decrease the risk, the cost of the risk can be externalized onto the employees and the public.
There was a pop musician during the 1980's named Boy George. Something of a flash, with a group called Culture Club, with the motto "If this is Culture, then give me a Club."
I assume Club as a weapon. I did not know at that time, but now I know, Corporate Culture has been a weapon used against us.
Andy, my grandfather rode the caboose for 55 years as a rear brakeman for the LA&SL, later UP. He retired in 1960, well before any of this cost cutting took place. I looked into his career, but went with Greyhound instead. Even that outfit went TU in the 90’s. Now the airlines are attempting the same thing.
All makes sense to me.
Rail employees are represented by unions and the average salary is $150k a year. Caboose men are not needed since the invention of the defect detector
But didn't the RR installed eyes n sensors that "reads" wheel and bearing temps . along the rails and send a message to the engineer to allegedly stop something like this tragedy from happening?
From what I heard they did go by one and was informed of the “defect”. But from the time of that alert to actually bringing the train to a stop is when the disaster happened.
Did you see the video showing the camera which is part of a broken sensor not working that day of the big Derailment in Ohio? Over 1000 shunts are reported to have been found near crossings etc recently
I'll have to check that out.
I saw a black and white security camera video showing the whole front of a rib side hopper car on fire. The flames were higher that the roof. So an old grainer was the cause of this accident.
@@milwaukeeroadjim9253 yes mark it up for pour maintenance and just not enough employees to keep up with everything.
What does this statement even mean??
More dispatchers are needed I got a tour of the Union Pacific ' Harriman Center ' in Omaha , extremely lucky to get the tour . At that time I learned the dispatchers had two different subdivisions many miles apart that they worked . Very stressful jobs and I don't know how they do their job and keep their sanity . At the time I was there that was the only dispatcher center on the UP System . Something needs to be done to limit the length of trains to one mile in length . Quit intimidating train crews and treat them as humans . Yes it will take a lot more train crews but they have fired or laid off so many trainmen that could be rehired and put back to work with a little effort . For many years they have been extending sidings for longer trains that in a lot of cases the sidings are close to be extended to make double track railroads . Instead of stuffing share holders pockets spend the money on building a better running railroad . Track conditions are terrible system wide on all of the railroads , causing Slow Orders that make these long ' PSR ' trains ( don't get me started on ' PSR ' BS ) creep through cities and towns and block crossings like the train in this video . Put enough locomotives on the trains to let them run at maximum allowable speeds like they did years ago . I see very few trains running at speed now here in the Little Rock , Arkansas area . We've got mainline subdivisions coming in and out of here from northeast Arkansas , Memphis , Van Buren , Monroe , Louisiana and Texarkana . We've got the Jenks Shop that used to be heavy locomotive overhaul thats now just doing component overhauls that could be working on a lot of the hundreds of locomotives that are in storage all over the system . It's time for management to pull their over paid heads out of their a$$es and make our railroad great again before they let it go to waste and go BANKRUPT .
The addition of PTC means that the dispatcher is much less involved in the operations of the trains in their territory. That became the justification for combining territories.
WAY UNDER POWERED!! Should of had two on the point two DPU’S in the middle and one on the end. No wonder the supply chain is so bad. Steven Sipes
That was my thought too I was told by a NS employ that even when they have two on the point of NS 32N they usually have only one on line I think they do use more power when they get over by PA.
The college edumicated types will tell you it's perfect just as it is. As l9ng as it moves there is no issue. I have heard engineers in Berkshire mountains telling the dispatcher I'm down to 2mph I don't think I can make the hill. Keep going let me know if you stall.
@@therailroadtiespikerdoes this train go straight through Pennsylvania, or is it broken apart in Conway to the various destinations? Is power added?
Should've is should have, not should of.
Where I live super long and slow, csx trains regularly cut off parts of town for more than 10 minutes. This might not sound like a big deal, but both the fire department and the rescue squad are located south of the tracks, so response time to the north of the city is significantly longer when the trains come through. This is definitely a problem.
Yes it's a problem it wouldn't be if the would start running shorter trains.
Several years ago I worked for Railcrew Xpress. B.N.S.F. had some pretty long ones in Kansas. One of the conductors said he was worried about one of the trains he just got off of. He said it was way too long for his liking. Busted knuckles were common in Kansas since I spent my entire 10 hour shift several times just sitting at the crossing waiting for the repair crew from Newton to do the repair. I spent a lot of time in Dodge City waiting.
I've been railroading for working on 25 years (20 as engineer) and have personally had 2 mainline derailments on my district because of the way the train was built and length. Never happened before in my my time with me or any other crew prior to PSR.
Luckily, no injuries to railroad personnel or the public and I was not charged with anything, surprisingly.
PSR is scary...
Wall Street can buy out the society top to bottom. Just look what happened during COVID
The railroads have become so greedy it’s unbelievable we need to get smarter more competent people into the management positions of these companies ASAP people who actually know and care about trains and their crews and how efficient and important they are for the economy
In India, all railroads are owned by the Indian government and managed as a national security asset, not a for-profit company. When I was in India, I could always find a train to take me where I needed to go. Sure, it wasn't always the most conformable ride, but the train was always on time. India is now carrying out a massive modernization campaign of Indian railways that will hopefully fix a lot of the remaining problems they had. Since 2017, India has been aggressively expanding the electrification of the railroads. They have already reached over 83% and hope to reach 100% electrification by the end of 2025. There's no reason the US can't do all of this as well.
Geebus, they were basically pulling two trains with only two engines. CSX would have probably put 3 locomotives on a train that size. That thing was a monster.
Even in the 70's we count the cars there were 120 box cars
By all railroads Precision Scheduled Railroading is about maintaining the bottom line by all means necessary at a profit 📈
And sacrificing everything else employees, customers and so on
@@therailroadtiespiker People waiting on emergency vehicles which are stopped at a railroad crossing because a train is stopped there or it's so long it takes forever to clear.
This is why PSR Sucks! If these trains keep getting longer & longer & with more Crew shortages, none of this would've happened!
Reminds me of standing at Santa Fe crossing and waving at the engineer as well as the guy in the caboose, when I was young. Walked the tracks looking for railroad spikes and other interesting stuff.
When I got older, waiting at a crossing in the city. Seemed really long then, but I was also in a hurry.
I am nearing 80 years, I rode steam trains with my Dad. I love trains and while my spot watching is over, and my train buddy has gone to the biggest round house I am an armchair watcher. I love 1309 and it’s whistle! But over this time, GREED has made this situation and employment a danger for employees, and communities. Watching the CEO of N/S this Chap will change his practice only when the hammer of the law gets involved. For the folks who work day and night for the convenience of our economy and our whims, their labors spell big dollars. As a retired nurse my job was demanding, but these railroad employees have a bigger, harder job that we imagine or appreciate. Thanks for responding to my note to stay back from the tracks while you are filming, some of these trains are time bombs moving.
Thank you for watching and yes I stand back as you never know when one will leave the tracks.
27 MINUTES!!! Good thing there was not a fire truck or ambulance waiting at that crossing!
I've seen them sit for hours in Peru blocking every crossing.
@@therailroadtiespiker totally unacceptable behavior.
@@therailroadtiespiker We have the same problem in Homestead, Pennsylvania where the main entrance to the Waterfront is often blocked by NS and CSX trains. Homestead and West Homestead police have been heard on radio threatening to arrest train crews for blocking the crossing.
@@danielulz1640 Its difficult because rail workers like my self have the operator and then me walk the whole train. that's it. if i have to cut cars in and out sometimes it takes 15 minutes just to walk where im supposed to be at
@@danielulz1640 There is an underpass about 3,000 ft. from the video location.
Yes they have been getting longer for quite awhile now. Captured one in Pa. That was a 220 car mixed manifest an 2 DPUs on Sunday. Cool video
CSX train in Indiana with 200 car's, this I'd frequent here.
@@joewalker9325 So far the tops for me was in September 257 car mixed manifest. N/S.
Mine has been CSX over at the Marion, Ohio depot at 214 cars most of them being auto-racks didn't think they would ever end
@@therailroadtiespiker Yes they are getting longer. The one I captured was a mixed manifest tankers box cars coal cars etc.
@@therailroadtiespiker 214 cars @ 90+ feet per car, holy Sheepdip!
Mandatory cabooses on all trains over 6k. With out the eyes in the rear end it makes it the whole task of railroading a 13k foot long train impossible to predict with only two people on the head end. It’s all money and safety isn’t what’s make a rr money. Retired rr cndr here
Not only getting longer but the railroads just a few weeks ago were still asking Congress to allow 1 person crews.
1 man crews are crazy. Dangerous. Look at Lac Magantic.
The republican greed is good mentality started with Reagan and hopefully ended with Trump. Biden will not allow this madness to continue. Trumps desire to cut costs to the bone so the wealthy make bigger profits is ending.
They need at least 2, technology or not, as a fail safe
This train is heading east to Wabash where I live, our mayor took 1/10 of the state of Indiana's 2022 transportation budget to build an overpass for this track, reason was blocked crossing. Still waiting for construction to start.
Wow didn't know they were building one what road will they build it on?
@@therailroadtiespiker the overpass will be three blocks east of the Wabash street crossing.
After the big derailment in East Palestine some should call Norfolk Southern and ask them how that PSR working for you now.
Yep
If the trains still had a caboose, the crew in it would have smelled the hotbox. The train would have been stopped safely. Technology just hasn't replaced the things that make trains safe.
I was a Carman for the L& N late 70's. Rarely did we have to change out air brake module. They performed as designed for the most part. Biggest issues were brake shoes worn out, oil pack dry (older freight cars) and roller bearing overheating. Toward the end of the 70's we were we bought out by SCL. Things began to change as operations were compromisee d by cutting manpower and management interference in our ability to insure the safety of equipment.
To my eyes, PSR looks like a derivative of the Japanese 5S, Six Sigma, and Just-In-Time efficiency programs. In theory, it should work just fine...in theory.
Many companies learned an expensive lesson, that being that unless their business revolved around automobile manufacturing those efficiency models alienated customers, reduced effectiveness, and made life miserable for employees affected by it who were forced to put a square peg in a round hole.
We to had all the japanese programs at work. In the long run the company was sold and my plant was closed. JIT must have just sucked when Covid hit.
@@milwaukeeroadjim9253 It did. The supply chain was thrown into disarray because nobody had anything on the shelves. Buyers only ordered what they needed when they needed it and expected the shipments to arrive on time. When they didn't things stalled. This quickly became an issue with the medical field, as essentials like masks, gloves, disinfectant, and other things became Unobtainium overnight. With our China -dependent economy, ships feed trains, trains feed trucks, trucks feed factories and warehouses, warehouses feed retail stores, and retail stores feed consumers. Nobody wants millions of dollars of inventory taking up space so they all played hot potato and lost.
While this may be true, Lean 6 sigma actually is supposed to look at the process and look to employees, not management, for where the process can improve. It is also supposed to identify the weaknesses from a lower level, and it requires a commitment from management to adhere to the changes. In the railroads case, they simply ran from a financial target and integrated elements of typical financial cuts in order to achieve those targets. Longer trains? Sounds great to a bean counter, but let's see them fit in a siding. Need for more power on those longer trains? Sure, but then you gotta forget about scheduled maintenance. Crew problems? Oh there will always be crew, we can just flash a little cash and they'll show up. See what I'm getting at? Having to have crews time out because you can't fit a train in a yard does not fit the lean ideal. And PSC and crew elimination are just people bucking for a bonus looking for new ways to justify even less safe operating conditions for the sake of preserving shareholder value and profit.
@@GCHatSCHOOL 20 years ago, I used to calibrate the instruments at a place that made railroad wheels and axles. Hot axle blanks were hammered into raw axles by a rotary hammer machine. A fresh out of college bean counter thought that he could increase throughput by increasing the furnace temperature. The first axle destroyed the rotary hammer because the interior was below the temperature required for the steel to be malleable. He was dismissed.
@spaceflight101 And those are the kinds of things that have made me get into lean 6(and also piss me off to no end!).I have 20 years of work experience in occupations where practical knowledge usually trumped the will of accounting, but the process was open to refinement. Lean is about the process, and making decisions that are data driven. If an entire team would have been on board during the decision process when the temp was increased, where members of management understood the forging process, metalurgists were consulted, and people who worked with the metals were consulted and had an opinion based on real-world experience, your outcome might have been different because of the quantity and quality of data. I think for me the biggest takeaway from hearing stories like yours is that everybody wants to make their mark and make a name for themselves but sometimes it's better to tune yourself to the orchestra than try to get the orchestra to tune to you.
Just one question relating to train sizes: Are the railroads having difficulty hiring enough qualified employees to operate the number of trains required for their business volume?
Yes, that's pretty much it, but its really a problem if their own doing. Their business practices and more specifically their labor practices have been pretty terrible to work under, hence the multiple attempts to strike last year.
@@WillTheBassPlayer and will get rid of good employees for some of the stupidest reasons.
The railroad employees are all represented by unions. The average salary is $160k per year. With the advancement of diesel electric trains the locomotives have the ability to move freight at very efficient levels. CSX averages 2000 pounds moved 490 miles per gallon of fuel at a cost of 2.8billion in improvements to the rails, equipment and locomotives.
@@GradertJ Dude stop. We don't make anything close to that. Cabooses went away with the invention called a marker. When I worked on the D&H we had 5 man crews and 3 up front and two in the back. Most of them just slept. So yeah get rid of the cabooses. Companies don't pay people to sleep on the job. Those people ruined it for themselves
Yes. Part of the reason is crew resistance to the requirement to be vaccinated
NS right now is in the process of lengthening the siding at Campbellstown , OHIO.
Ex PRR Richmond branch. NW bought this at CR day in 1976. This line is essential to NS. One of the few lines that connect Southern to NW.
NS runs god knows how many trains a day on this line.
The fact that it is double-tracked gives a big hint. This is just an estimate, but imagine the chaos if there were 10 trains in between St Louis and New Palestine stopped in the middle of nowhere - with no protection and crews timing out of hours many hours away from the nearest crew change point. I would guess that they made efforts to reverse the trains and take them back to St Louis.
I would not be shocked if N&S approached the Wheeling & Lake Erie Railroad to reroute some trains from Toledo to Connellsville.
I've seen derailment and wrecks...this is a wreck.
Great video, great example of a train way to long operated by only two people. There used to be a law stating that railroad crossings cannot be blocked for more than fifteen minutes in case police or fire have to get from one side to the other. If the train is moving at speed they barely make that limit. If it stops then forget about. Plus the stress of having long heavy trains has to be bad on the equipment and the rails. Couplers may break at any time, bearings can self destruct at any time, axles or the flanges on the wheels can go bad or break at anytime. The railroads need to go back to a true safety first culture, spend what's needed on safety and the rest could go to the share holders...
Thank you kraz994 I've seen crossings blocked for hours in Peru.
Anyone remember that old game show press your luck? Big bucks no whammies! Well they got a whammy! The bills always come due! You can only put off maintenance and cut staff so much before luck runs out?!? Not that they care!
New a Federal regulation that puts a limit on how long a train can be. Also about mixing hazardous materials on a train and no hazardous
So are you suggesting that you want trains that are made up of 100% hazardous chemicals?
Hey thanks for these vids. I'm learning alot about freight trains. Where I live we only have Amtrak and commuter lines.
Thank you gfriedman99 we don't get any Amtrak over in the Peru area other than the one that comes through Lafayette in the middle of the night.
i would pull the cut bar on that and shut down the dpu the max train length should be 40 to 100 cars
Yes I totally agree
Where do you propose to find thousands of additional experienced train crew members?
if any ceo of any transportation company tells you that their main focus is safety,they are lying right to your face.the only focus of that organization is shareholder value and your government is complicit accepting money or campaign contribution's for favorable rule change to cut their cost.this will never change till politicans are held accountable along with corporations.
Nothing precise about running trains like this
This demonstrates the discrimination the Railroad Industry has acquired over the Trucking Industry in the prevention of the use of triple or quadruple trailers pulled by one tractor.
Time for the trucking industry to be allowed to compete.
It’s all about corporate greed and 45 didn’t help matters either. If management treated train crews with respect and honored their judgment on how to run trains with safety in mind, maybe they would have the qualified train crews that would keep their jobs and run shorter trains safely with the public in mind.
The government needs to ban these ridiculously long trains. Blocking traffic for 20 minutes is not acceptable. Fire and ambulance need to be able to traverse. Hell... anybody needing to get to work on time cannot abide these delays. Let the railroads pay for bridges or tunnels to allow traffic to flow if they're going to block the rails for anything more than 5 minutes.
ChainsawN&W1218, I've always liked big trains especially NS with mid and end train DPU action and the train in Palastine did not derail because of it's size because I'm sure it had atleast 1 or 2 mid helper DPUS on a 150 car train it was the hot wheel bearing which the defect detector picked up and alerted the crew and they never stopped the train it was also caught in Salem Ohio 45 minutes before the derailment on throwing sparks from the bad wheel bearing, I know the water ther is contaminated from the chemicals and vinyl chloride tank cars that were burning 🔥, I've watched this on the news since it happened I actually DVR news to catch train related news and seen today NS was writing 1000 dollar checks to all the residents so there doing there best to help out just hope no one has no health problems now or on down the road, nice video and thanks for doing coverage on the derailment!🚂🛤
Would it be foolish to suggest that the hot box alarm be linked to an automatic engine cut - out?
SUE FOR $50BILLION. THIS SHOWS THE CORRUPTION IS REAL.
Do you think it's right to pay people 1000 bucks for their health?? Their animals health??
How about the land and water??
Shit just don't set right with me..
Think about how much faster the emergency brake application could’ve stopped the train if it wasn’t a 220 car DP pos. But, yeah, you’re right. Train length definitely isn’t the reason
@@SaltyNationalist Give them emergency cash now - and then set up a proper compensation process for later - to follow a proper in - depth investigation. But make sure they have emergency survival money, in cash, and right this minute - today, in fact.
Was it the TRAIN OR POOR MAINTENANCE THAT CAUSED THE PROBLEMS??
It seems to be mechanical failure
The derailment was caused by a covered Hopper car (non-hazmat) carrying polypropylene pellets owned by a Brazilian Chemical Company Braskem (formerly a subsidiary of Sunoco). The car started its journey in Fort Wayne Texas near Houston, and probably traveled up to St Louis carried by Union Pacific. The bearing overheated and failed. It was the 23rd car out of 140
You know that the NS is not short on power when you see there engines on different rail lines that are not there own. Steven Sipes
When I watch the BNSF in la plata Missouri on the live stream, it is not uncommon to see Mexican locomotives or Canadian power. Other than the first locomotive, I wouldn't read too much into the others. A key principle in the evil PSR is to use only the newest best locomotives out on your busy main lines. One failure will quickly ripple through your whole system.
It is common to see foreign power across all railroads now without regard for shortage or excess of engines.
While PSR is a problem, train length is not. Trains do have a limit on length. They have to fit within a signal block, the smallest signal block on the route. This includes stopping distance. So if a block is ket's say 5 miles, and a train is only 6,000 ft long, you're only occupying 1/5th of that block. You cannot have two trains in one block at the same time. It's still occupying 5 miles of track even though it is only 1 mile long. A 2 or 3 mile long train occupies that same block. If two 1 mile trains were used, you're now using two blocks, and most of it is empty. It is more efficient, less fuel burning, less delay, less manpower, less motive power; it's just better all around. The down side of course is longer wait times for 4 wheelers at grade crossings.
When I was hired on the Railroad in 1968 and Ret. in 2000. We had 2 Brakemen and a Conductor. In Indiana if the train was over 69 cars we had an additional Brakeman (Swingman) A total of 3 Brakeman and a Conductor plus the Engineer. With the introduction of portable radios we started to loose crew members. Later they introduced the rear of train device. It would radio brake pipe pressure, movement and if the rear light was on. That's all it did. We lost two more crew members that could watch for defects on the train. Now, they want one Engineer to safely operate these insanely long 12,000+ ft. trains. The Conductor would be chasing his train in a pickup truck.
Is it true that the FRED has the ability to do an emergency dump of air from the back of the train?
@@ArtStoneUS Yes, true, and it occasionally dumps the air for no apparent reason.
Haven’t heard where NS has their HBD’s or DED’s in relation to E Palatine. But the long trains are moving slower so there should be time for a detector to alert and bring the train to a controlled stop. If the detectors are long distances apart or the readers are turned down to not alert at certain temp nothing was gonna prevent EP from happening.
The details are in the interim NTSB report. On class one main lines, defect detectors are about twenty miles apart. This section of track is also under the control of PTC.
The defect detector in Salem is made by progressrail and has very sophisticated software (microHBD). It reported the wheel being above ambient temperature, but not high enough to justify stopping the train or reducing the speed to 30 mph.
There is another detector in Columbiana Ohio, but it is only a dragging object detector. It does not look at hot boxes.
The hot box detector in East Palestine is right next to the fire department. It declared a critical problem that needed to stop the train immediately, but it was too late. The train was going 47 mph. The NTSB spokesperson has already declared that "the crew did nothing wrong"
For what ever they saved, they will spend sixty times more, cleaning up that village
Can anyone here tell me what the power to tonnage ratio would be for the flat route there ? HP to ton? How many horsepower were the 3 powers?
We also need to know if the locomotives are AC or DC. Locomotives that have been converted to AC can handle a much higher ratio, because they have infinitely fine control and can apply power just up to the point where the wheels start to slip.
That train was stupid long.
That's some size of train, CP trains are about the size of the train that derailed it goes to show how much DPU technology helps with train braking etc. 3 units conventional with 150 cars would have been a giant slinky.
The FRED at the back of the train also has the ability to dump air remotely
The US freight train system needs to be electrified and updated.
Like pretty much all of Europe is.
Lol no
Who wouldn't like to see a modern GG1 out on the road?
Electrified? Stop it man
@@therailroadtiespiker A long time ago the Pennsylvania Railroad looked into electrification but determined that it wasn't feasible. In today's world, continuing to add burdens to the PJM grid while removing nuclear and fossil assets and spare capacity continues to make electrification unfeasible.
150 cars isn't long by any stretch. How was that the same train? It was multi's and intermodal. 32N was/is a mixed manifest train. Similar to M363. Where it works all along it's route picking up and setting off.
Well since this is 32N and the train that derailed in East Palestine was 33N it was just a different month and a different consist.
I thought that they only ran trains that long out west but that is extremely long to be going through any town. Since Psr, there are more fright cars with flat spotted wheels.
That's been increasing since the '90s. Flat spots can damage rails.
They really started running longer Trains six or seven years ago and they just keep making them longer
The trains just keep getting longer. I have caught 3 in the past few months with over 800 axles.
CSX or NS?
@@therailroadtiespiker CSX the NS detector here doesn't count the axles.
@@LostDepot what I've seen around here the CSX trains are much longer than the NS trains
I cant imagine being stuck at the RR crossing while waiting for that thing to go by. Insane.
It really sucks and I've seen many impatient drivers.... I don't really blame them for being impatient either.
If Northfork and Southern can’t get there act together the city should CLOSE THE LINE GOING THREW TOWN. And looks like that is the case because NS just had another derailment in the same state just resently. Steven Sipes
NS 148 had been extended east to Conway in order to relieve 32N, the train that derailed was 9,300ish ft. long, it's still a damn big train but the length had nothing to do with it
BNSF routinely runs trains over 15,000 feet on the southern transcontinental route. You can tell they are basically two trains spliced together because they have very different consists in front of and behind the mid train distributed power.
To me it doesn’t make sense that all of this power from other railroads. None are short of power if they were on home rails. Steven Sipes
It's about not removing the power to save time.
The video is a huge Dragout that got off the point.
It got boring fast.
Strike out on this one !!!
Sorry Bob Anderson that I didn't keep you stimulated through the entire video maybe you should come railfan with me and show me what to film so I can make amazing stimulated videos for you too watch.
@@therailroadtiespiker screw that guy. I love train watching.
@@Trashman702 and I'm not sure where I got off the point I didn't switch the video and show poll dancing. Lol
I spent a lot of time in Peru from 1975 to 1980...
The 258 train is the 20t. The 32n cars do not go on the 258.
Exactly they did a pickup that day because of being short of power and was told they were dropping them off at the Fort Wayne yard. This information came from the engineer that was pulling the train out of Peru.
Since FEBRUARY 1827
WE HAD RAILROAD TRAINS.
MARCH 2023
196 year's later
And they STILL CAN'T
GET IT RIGHT.
( Are ROBBER BARON'S still in charge)
If it WALKS AND QUAKE'S
LIKE A DUCK.
IT'S THE ELITE'S.
The FRA & Surface Transportation Board need to step in, and regulate train lengths. These 2 & 3 mile-long trains are nothing but a disaster, and a threat to public safety. PSR may look good on paper for the bottom line & profits, but in the real world, it's a public safety cluster$@&#. Not to mention it's downright dangerous for the overworked & understaffed train crews, deferred maintenance on bad-order cars, etc, etc. I've even heard about yardmasters refusing to let the crews set out bad-order cars because "they don't have time", because they want the trains to keep rolling despite the consequences, and things like the East Palestine debacle are the result of this reckless decision-making. But hey, as long as the bean counters, pencil-pushers, & shareholders are raking in the $$$$, they simply don't care about the employees or the safety of the general public. Something's gotta give, and East Palestine is just the start of more and more disasters unless something drastic changes. PSR is just horrible.
So if you want to double or triple the number of trains for the same amount of cargo, where do you propose that the railroads find more trained crew members? Customers of the railroads are already complaining that their shipments are being delayed and wanting Congress to start micromanaging which customers are the most important. This is because the railroads, BNSF in particular, is complaining they don't have enough crews and the unions are complaining that the workers don't get enough time off and are overworked.
I never notice how long they are until I have to sit at a light and wait for them
The problem is not that the train crashed the problem is somebody From the government lit it on fire That person needs to be Prosecuted and jailed
I love trains, seeing these huge pile of iron is exciting, but today people are careless and these terrible accidents happened because of negligence, even terrorism. To the people in Paletine Ohio I'm sorry and hope that with God's help you will recover soon, hung on and remember don't count on this government, your state is red and that tells it all. Remember to vote 2024 and for whom.
Our government has to be stronger against bad people
Our government is run by bad people, so we are kind of out of luck there
Unfortunately our current government is bad people!
The Chinese saw this from outer space and thought it was a large military maneuver so they sent the weather balloon for a closer check. LOL
Lol
Bring back the CABOOSE so the engineer can be notified if the train is on fire
DUH!
I'm not understanding something. If this was the train that derailed then where are all the tank cars that were clearly seen in the news photos?? I'm definitely missing something.
Gotta be great when an air hose or coupler breaks 2 miles behind the lead.
It really sucks to be the conductor that walks a mile and a half to find the problem and then walk back to the head end. I filmed a train in Lafayette Indiana that pulled the knuckle clean off the car right in front of me and it took about 35 minutes for the conductor to walk the train back to where it happened.
Just curious, what are you filming the day of the new Real Madrid?
Pure greed, monster trains , combining two and three into one . Blocked crossings , derailments . Railroads have become penny wise and pound foolish. They will pay dearly. L&N had a phrase I found sad but true; "Why spend a dime when a nickel will do." Solution to this madness ? Shorter trains and return of cabooses.
I would have watched this video but there was just TO much train horns.
Sorry it was before I bought my Zoom audio microphones. It's a work in progress.
Why don’t you tell the length of the train? You talk about how long this and other trains our but never tell the length. I, for one would like to know and I’m sure other people would too. If you don’t want to do that, then you could at least show the whole train so the cars could be counted.
I did show the whole train but I forgot to put the length on the video. The train was 9,840 feet and I've seen this train as long as 13,000 feet. Sorry for forgetting to put that in that's what happens when you make videos at two in the morning. Lol
@@therailroadtiespiker I know all about being out at 2:00 in the morning and all other hours of the morning and night. I'm retired now but, still miss it. It stays in your blood.
@@therailroadtiespiker "Nothing good happens after 2 am."
*Maybe you should get your camera out and make your own videos. that way we can all see the full extent of your hypocrisy.*
@@KARMA-vu8ii I had a list of what was on every one of my trains and the footage because you had to know exactly how long your train was in case they had to put you in the hold. Most sidings were 4000 feet and unless something has changed, they still are. Why don't you apply for the railroad so you'll know what your talking about!!! You are nothing but a railfan foamer that thinks he knows what he's talking about but really has no clue.
E Hunter Harrison Specials, Train Wrecked!!! OH, NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Those odd lookIng vehicle carriers at 3:30 are manufactured in Mexico
3 Hot Box Detectors went off before the derailment but the dispatcher who has 7000 trains he is trying to keep up with had 3 other emergencies and was busy with them and couldn't get to the alarms for this train.
Greed is really killing people but they don't care
Do you know that for a fact that the dispatcher was too busy witth other emergenies? If not don't be starting rumors it might come back to bite you in the butt.
The crew hears the hot boxes go off, nothing to do the dispatcher. Please speak only to things that you know.
Liar
Dispatch has nothing to do with the DD. The crew is responsible for stopping the train. I believe they were in the process of stopping the train.
I agree with your last sentiment there but the first part didn’t make any sense. Defect detectors are completely automated. After train passes them, they automatically relay information about the passing training over radio. There’s not a guy sitting in a building going over all the numbers and data sending out the trains in real time.
The train length had nothing to do with the derailment. A failed axle (bearing) is the culprit, length notwithstanding
Uphill slow downhill fast tonnage first and safety last.
wow a hour train
Good video
Thank you Dan
@@therailroadtiespiker ur w
Its is Mikes n8rbi radio
The engine HAD nothing to do with the derailment at all,IT WAS The WHEEL BEARING, DUH
Where are the tank cars?
Probably not in the consist that day.
Yes not in consist that day
Was this the same train and route?
its seen like Norfolk going under like penn central railroad
I've seen mile long train before yet I have never seen an engine mid train before. And no engine on the stern...
Run 6 mile long train and you can have fewer trains and more safe rail roads?
Leonard Hiatt I Work For U P Four Four Years There is No Reason That The Liv😮e😢s Of us Are Being Put To This Test. If We Had Good Sence Call our top Pains In Every State And Put A Stop To This Un Call For
None Bull Shit I am 86 Years Old And Work In On Trains😢😮