I use Alphafly series 1 as daily trainer (theyre so forgiving) then have a more fresh pair of Alphafly series 1 for race day. In the 10k & up I feel they really protect my legs & feet. I also notice the next day I'm not as sore using AF1 vs say Endorphin Speed Original for a road half marathon.
The 2% is the difference between Kimetto’s marathon world record in 2014 (2:02:57) and Kiptum’s time in 2023 (2:00:35). So, much of the development in faster times is most likely because of the super shoes. For this reason, World Athletics should have banned them from competition, in my opinion.
Another great video Dr.Will. Is there any chance you could do a deep dive into how the effects of temperature/humidity should be taken into account for training/race day? Loving your content!
Useful validation of exactly what I’m doing. I run a reasonable amount in alphaflys, mostly because I want to be used to them but also because I just enjoy them. I have found they decay in pace, but I race in fresh ones because I’m lucky enough not to worry too much about the price so why not.
I use my "older" super shoes as the foams definitely help me with recovery after long runs with workout paces. At 60, I have been able to recover faster from my LRs and really stay healthy during my marathon blocks the last 2.5 years. Reducing my times from 3:45 to 3:08. I think they may promote form efficiencies as well. I'd guess all shoes alter your biomechanics in some way if you only wear a certain shoe repeatedly for months/years.
I'm almost entirely training in plated shoes. Especially for my hallux valgus they do wonder, since I use plated shoes I have no problems at all anymore in my toe joint. I also was never injured... I use different drops and firmness to give my musles often a different input. And so far it works very well. I think the problems come when people just use their "super shoes" for the one final day... or only for speed workout.
I so very much appreciate this video. I took a10 year hiatus from the sport after being absolutely burnt out and came back to a verrryyy different shoe landscape! Last I was around all the serious runners were opting for minimalist shoes, zero-drop etc and we had those tiny racing flats. I felt so old when I started training this past month and had no idea why everyone now runs in and sells these pillowy looking shoes 😅
If I were to run a four hour marathon it would win my AG in 90% of all races as it would also be a Boston Qualifying time. As an old slow runner there is another aspect to super shoes that have an effect on training. I have been using a carbon plate shoe (not the best or most famous) for training over the last year. And for the first time in forty years of running I don't have a single black toe.
My response was based on my experience, yours is based on your experience. All these things are dependant on how fast, how heavy, forefoot or heel striking, what type of foam, what type of plate or rods (my shoe is plated yours has rods). I have been running up to 50k (not miles) a week, which for me is 5 hours of running (or more) and as I said, no black toes. That has never happened to me before so the conclusion I draw is fairly obvious....for me. What shoes have you used that didn't cause problems? And how much training did you do in your current shoe before doing the HM. Hope you find something that works......for you. Must admit my shoes were much cheaper than the Adios Pro 3.
Great video - I constantly struggle with that question, when it comes to all kinds of speedier workout. Would you say not using super shoes in interval workouts ( just as an example) benefits factors like lower leg strength etc. so that you in the end do get a performance boost once you switch to super shoes? I feel that is another thesis that gets tossed around a lot here on UA-cam without a lot of proof
Ive run two marathons this year and in both i started cramping in my quads around knees super early (18km ish) never cramp in training. Only diffence on race i can point to -race shoes
After doing 2 or even 3 marathons in my race day shoe I then use it for marathon paced or faster long runs. My speed shoe right now is like an asics magic speed 1 still. Carbon plated but not over the top. My long run zone 2 is Saucony Speed 3. Once again a carbon shoe but not too ridged. Everyday shoe is novablast 3 and rebel 3. I think its a combination where i get a range of different shoes for my feet and not suddenly jumping into supershoes on race day. Mind you i only use NB Elite which isn't that super but i never get sore feet in it.
Interesting video, thanks. Have the Vaporfly 2, only use it if want to go fast as it definitely helps me (speedwork always done in non-carbon shoes, so can compare). I find the more I put in (faster I run) the more I get back. However, I don’t like how they make me run (almost like a scuffed forefoot landing) and don’t particularly like running in them (used them in a 10k once, couldn’t wait to take them off!). Cf. Takumi Sen 8 which are almost as fast for me but nice to run in/don’t noticeably change my running form.
If only we could test ourselves in all the shoes to find the perfect one rather than finding out after a handful of runs. It could be an opportunity for an app developer - Take a video of yourself running and a photo of your feet, then get the best recommendation.
thanks man. i think super shoes have a place just when it comes to race. or some few specific training sessions. other than that I'd stick to more traditional shoes, i prefer low stackheight and low drop shoes usually.. 25-30 mm max for my tempo runs 4-6 mm drop.. and once a week i really like to run in super minimal shoes zero drop for strengthening... i'm lucky to have pretty high arched in my feet though . Anyway a 5% IMPROVEMENT FOR A 3:30 MARATHON IS HUGE good to know i still have to run a full marathon, my goal would be to stay between 3.h15 and 3h.30 i guess i'll try a super shoes ahah
Dr. Will, more great content, thank you. What are your thoughts on using inserts in your shoes to improve longevity of the shoe? Also, do insets improve mechanics or are they overrated! Cheers
I don't know how inserts would help with longevity. The three points of deterioration will be the sole, the midsole foam, and the upper. Inserts wouldn't help preserve any of those.
Will, I am 13 weeks out from marathon day trying to crack the 3hr mark, ive only just bought my first pair of super shoes in 3 months i've done 2 runs in them, having just watched this video would it be advisable to use the Alpha's now once a week for marathon paced effort upto marathon day for better muscle efficiency = greater adaptation or would you wait until closer to race day and use them only 3 or 4 times before doing the marathon?
Calves and Achilles seem to be the first pain points for many runners. Adios also don’t have a carbon plate, they have rods. I tried to include all that info in the video but it made it a bit wordy, so I said Pebax or equivalent high-energy return foam.
In training you don't want help, you want to train. I use plated shoes as little as possible. They don't make you a stronger or better runner, no matter how it looks on Strava. In fact, they weaken your feet - which in turns negatively affect the overall kinetic chain (ankle, knee, hip, back, etc...) - because they do part of the job instead of you; consequently, they increase the chance of injury the day you'll take them off. Keep them for race day and maybe use them few more times in preparation to get familiar with the pace they offer.
LOL. If you train in super shoes you aren't training? Watch some elite runners on YT do WOs. ALL WEAR SUPER SHOES! Definitely don't weaken your feet...study please? Definitely don't increase your chance of injury when you take them off...study please? I run in mine at least once a week for my workouts. The super foams definitely help your legs recover faster. I run 40-65mpw, am 60 years old and just ran a PB of 3:08:22.
those strange rockers cause me shinsplint, so i use super traditional flat streakfly instead, they're definitely more bouncy than any Eva shoes out there even after more than 1000km
Regarding the possible loss of supershoe benefit after they wear down, did you dismiss one study just because it didn't give results you expected and accept another because it did? That's what it sounded like on the video.
I can see how it may have come across that way. I dismissed their findings as being definitive that there was a significant reduction in RE based on wear. I gave an example of how their VO2 data showed no difference across all midsole and wear conditions. I then said the only other examples I could find were anecdotal, which are far from valid, but showed similar results to the first study - non-significant difference between new and worn super shoes.
I use Alphafly series 1 as daily trainer (theyre so forgiving) then have a more fresh pair of Alphafly series 1 for race day. In the 10k & up I feel they really protect my legs & feet. I also notice the next day I'm not as sore using AF1 vs say Endorphin Speed Original for a road half marathon.
The 2% is the difference between Kimetto’s marathon world record in 2014 (2:02:57) and Kiptum’s time in 2023 (2:00:35). So, much of the development in faster times is most likely because of the super shoes. For this reason, World Athletics should have banned them from competition, in my opinion.
Another great video Dr.Will. Is there any chance you could do a deep dive into how the effects of temperature/humidity should be taken into account for training/race day? Loving your content!
Ah, that's a rabbit hole if I ever there was one! I'll put it on the list. Cheers.
Useful validation of exactly what I’m doing. I run a reasonable amount in alphaflys, mostly because I want to be used to them but also because I just enjoy them. I have found they decay in pace, but I race in fresh ones because I’m lucky enough not to worry too much about the price so why not.
I use my "older" super shoes as the foams definitely help me with recovery after long runs with workout paces. At 60, I have been able to recover faster from my LRs and really stay healthy during my marathon blocks the last 2.5 years. Reducing my times from 3:45 to 3:08. I think they may promote form efficiencies as well. I'd guess all shoes alter your biomechanics in some way if you only wear a certain shoe repeatedly for months/years.
I'm almost entirely training in plated shoes. Especially for my hallux valgus they do wonder, since I use plated shoes I have no problems at all anymore in my toe joint.
I also was never injured... I use different drops and firmness to give my musles often a different input. And so far it works very well. I think the problems come when people just use their "super shoes" for the one final day... or only for speed workout.
I so very much appreciate this video. I took a10 year hiatus from the sport after being absolutely burnt out and came back to a verrryyy different shoe landscape! Last I was around all the serious runners were opting for minimalist shoes, zero-drop etc and we had those tiny racing flats. I felt so old when I started training this past month and had no idea why everyone now runs in and sells these pillowy looking shoes 😅
If I were to run a four hour marathon it would win my AG in 90% of all races as it would also be a Boston Qualifying time. As an old slow runner there is another aspect to super shoes that have an effect on training. I have been using a carbon plate shoe (not the best or most famous) for training over the last year. And for the first time in forty years of running I don't have a single black toe.
Coincidence. That’s all. My big toe is halfway to growing back after a half mara in adios pro 3. They cook your toes same as anything else
My response was based on my experience, yours is based on your experience. All these things are dependant on how fast, how heavy, forefoot or heel striking, what type of foam, what type of plate or rods (my shoe is plated yours has rods). I have been running up to 50k (not miles) a week, which for me is 5 hours of running (or more) and as I said, no black toes. That has never happened to me before so the conclusion I draw is fairly obvious....for me. What shoes have you used that didn't cause problems? And how much training did you do in your current shoe before doing the HM. Hope you find something that works......for you. Must admit my shoes were much cheaper than the Adios Pro 3.
Great video - I constantly struggle with that question, when it comes to all kinds of speedier workout. Would you say not using super shoes in interval workouts ( just as an example) benefits factors like lower leg strength etc. so that you in the end do get a performance boost once you switch to super shoes? I feel that is another thesis that gets tossed around a lot here on UA-cam without a lot of proof
Superb analysis!
Ive run two marathons this year and in both i started cramping in my quads around knees super early (18km ish) never cramp in training. Only diffence on race i can point to -race shoes
After doing 2 or even 3 marathons in my race day shoe I then use it for marathon paced or faster long runs. My speed shoe right now is like an asics magic speed 1 still. Carbon plated but not over the top. My long run zone 2 is Saucony Speed 3. Once again a carbon shoe but not too ridged. Everyday shoe is novablast 3 and rebel 3. I think its a combination where i get a range of different shoes for my feet and not suddenly jumping into supershoes on race day. Mind you i only use NB Elite which isn't that super but i never get sore feet in it.
It sounds like you don't have enough shoes, Alan 😂
Interesting video, thanks. Have the Vaporfly 2, only use it if want to go fast as it definitely helps me (speedwork always done in non-carbon shoes, so can compare). I find the more I put in (faster I run) the more I get back. However, I don’t like how they make me run (almost like a scuffed forefoot landing) and don’t particularly like running in them (used them in a 10k once, couldn’t wait to take them off!). Cf. Takumi Sen 8 which are almost as fast for me but nice to run in/don’t noticeably change my running form.
If only we could test ourselves in all the shoes to find the perfect one rather than finding out after a handful of runs. It could be an opportunity for an app developer - Take a video of yourself running and a photo of your feet, then get the best recommendation.
@@drwilloconnor thanks for the reply. Interesting idea!
thanks man. i think super shoes have a place just when it comes to race. or some few specific training sessions. other than that I'd stick to more traditional shoes, i prefer low stackheight and low drop shoes usually.. 25-30 mm max for my tempo runs 4-6 mm drop.. and once a week i really like to run in super minimal shoes zero drop for strengthening... i'm lucky to have pretty high arched in my feet though . Anyway a 5% IMPROVEMENT FOR A 3:30 MARATHON IS HUGE good to know i still have to run a full marathon, my goal would be to stay between 3.h15 and 3h.30 i guess i'll try a super shoes ahah
Thank you.
Dr. Will, more great content, thank you. What are your thoughts on using inserts in your shoes to improve longevity of the shoe? Also, do insets improve mechanics or are they overrated! Cheers
I don't know how inserts would help with longevity. The three points of deterioration will be the sole, the midsole foam, and the upper. Inserts wouldn't help preserve any of those.
Will, I am 13 weeks out from marathon day trying to crack the 3hr mark, ive only just bought my first pair of super shoes in 3 months i've done 2 runs in them, having just watched this video would it be advisable to use the Alpha's now once a week for marathon paced effort upto marathon day for better muscle efficiency = greater adaptation or would you wait until closer to race day and use them only 3 or 4 times before doing the marathon?
i run a tempo run in asics metaspeed sky+ once a week and my calves are killing me after that :D btw the adios pro 3 is not peba based
Calves and Achilles seem to be the first pain points for many runners. Adios also don’t have a carbon plate, they have rods. I tried to include all that info in the video but it made it a bit wordy, so I said Pebax or equivalent high-energy return foam.
In training you don't want help, you want to train.
I use plated shoes as little as possible. They don't make you a stronger or better runner, no matter how it looks on Strava. In fact, they weaken your feet - which in turns negatively affect the overall kinetic chain (ankle, knee, hip, back, etc...) - because they do part of the job instead of you; consequently, they increase the chance of injury the day you'll take them off. Keep them for race day and maybe use them few more times in preparation to get familiar with the pace they offer.
LOL. If you train in super shoes you aren't training? Watch some elite runners on YT do WOs. ALL WEAR SUPER SHOES! Definitely don't weaken your feet...study please? Definitely don't increase your chance of injury when you take them off...study please? I run in mine at least once a week for my workouts. The super foams definitely help your legs recover faster. I run 40-65mpw, am 60 years old and just ran a PB of 3:08:22.
I would think the super shoes would help to train at speed and race speed. A lot of Masters athletes say super training improves recovery as well.
those strange rockers cause me shinsplint, so i use super traditional flat streakfly instead, they're definitely more bouncy than any Eva shoes out there even after more than 1000km
Regarding the possible loss of supershoe benefit after they wear down, did you dismiss one study just because it didn't give results you expected and accept another because it did? That's what it sounded like on the video.
I can see how it may have come across that way. I dismissed their findings as being definitive that there was a significant reduction in RE based on wear. I gave an example of how their VO2 data showed no difference across all midsole and wear conditions. I then said the only other examples I could find were anecdotal, which are far from valid, but showed similar results to the first study - non-significant difference between new and worn super shoes.