TIMESTAMPS: 00:57 - where is Jonathan and why is the Internet ‘bad’? 01:53 - Dave’s ice dance shirt + Jonathan’s high kicks 03:04 - ISU Awards discussion *sips tea* **GPF Senior Men**: 10:09 - Yuzuru Hanyu situation (coaching situation, Yuzu’s practices, performances, and mentality) + comparisons with Nathan 29:17 - Nathan Chen ft. Vera Wang, Evan Lysacek 33:17 - old skating VHS of US Nationals ft. Deanna Stellato 34:39 - Kevin Aymoz 36:03 - Dmitri Aliev 37:46 - Mikhail Kolyada 38:13 - Dave’s friend Emily Alacar, at a clinic with Aliev 39:30 - back to Aliev 40:10 - Alexander Samarin 40:26 - Boyang Jin **GPF Junior Men**: 40:33 - Shun Sato + Yuma Kagiyama 40:46 - Daniil Samsonov 41:43 - Daniel Grassl + Italian fans **GPF Junior Ice Dance**: 42:30 - Avonley Ngyuen & Vadym Kolsenik 42:49 - Maria Kazakova & Georgy Reviya 43:30 - Loicia Demougeot & Theo Le Mercier + vague tweeting and comments **GPF Senior Ice Dance**: 44:07 - Madison Hubbell & Zach Donohue ft. the fur coat 46:47 - PAUSE. 47:27 - back to Hubbell & Donohue 50:01 - Marie-France Dubreil: Political Genius ft. Zhulin, judging panels, Hubbell & Donohue vs. Chock & Bates 59:00 - overall discussion on the field + Gabriella Papadakis and her friendships with the 2 Madisons 1:00:47 - US ice dance Nationals 1:01:13 - Gabriella Papadakis & Guillaume Cizeron + Alysa Liu and being ‘outside’ the sport **GPF Senior Pairs**: 1:08:20 - Kirsten Moore-Towers & Michael Marinano 1:15:00 - Aleksandra Boikova & Dmitri Kozlovskii 1:16:40 - Anastasia Mishina & Aleksandr Galliamov + Daria Pavliuchenko & Denis Khodykin 1:17:45 - Russian pairs, the coaches, and their Nationals 1:18:31 - Gracie Gold and Ksenia Stolbova (1:48:55 - Wenjing Sui & Cong Han) (1:49:57 - Cheng Peng & Yang Jin) **GPF Junior Ladies**: 1:19:29 - Haein Lee 1:19:50 - the non-Eteri girls: Kseniia Sinitsyna, Viktoria Vasilieva + discussion on the impact of the short program in this event 1:21:30 - Daria Usacheva 1:23:41 - Kamila Valieva 1:24:02 - Alysa Liu ft. skating skills, Eteri and Kostornaya 1:27:21 - Eteri and Valieva ft. Ted Barton 1:28:14 - ISU’s livestream and commentary with Ted & Chris 1:29:35 - 1999 Sasha Cohen and Jenny Kirk 1:30:11 - upcoming TSL discussion on Ice Wars **GPF Senior Ladies**: 1:30:33 - Alexandra Trusova + Eteri’s strategy 1:32:17 - Rika Kihira ft. Elizaveta Tuktamysheva (1:32:49) 1:33:32 - back to Eteri’s strategy ft. Liza Tuktamysheva 1:34:25 - Anna Shcherbakova + Anna’s 3F vs. Aliona’s 3F 1:35:41 - 3As 1:36:18 - Alexandra Trusvoa 1:38:19 - Rika Kihira 1:38:56 - Bradie Tennell 1:39:22 - back to RIka 1:40:11 - Aliona Kostornaya 1:40:47 - Anna Shcherbakova ft. her dress change, 4F 1:41:46 - the Russian ladies’ jump training with the bands 1:42:30 - Alina Zagitova + the interchangeability of Eteri’s girls + Kostornaya’s sustainability + can you be successful if you leave Eteri? **Other (including skipped skaters)**: 1:47:33 - Carlo Fassi was right about where skating will end up…is it still the same sport? ft. Hanyu, Nathan 1:48:55 - Wenjing Sui & Cong Han 1:49:57 - Cheng Peng & Yang Jin 1:50:20 - general discussion on the GPF 1:50:46 - US ladies: Bradie Tennell, Alysa Liu, Mariah Bell 1:54:52 - Closing
I’m with Dave - Papadakis/Cizeron are competing as skaters, and the whole we are too artistic to bother with skating requirements is a load of bs. But what was more egregious that their marks didn’t reflect Gabi’s fall out of her twizzle. I mean there’s some real politics there.
As far as I know, fanyus are claiming NOT that Nathan's overscored, BUT Hanyu's underscored. Hanyu deserves to be treated rightfully. Just because he's been in this sport for about a decade and now in the older side doesn't mean he should be pushed away by the judges. I know there has been a certain trend towards "rising star vs. veteran," but that just doesn't justify the ridiculous goe for his 4lz and 4l, or -5 for the 4t combination in his free when he didn't even fall down. I seriously hope ISU stops doing that. I don't want him to feel lonely and decide to leave competitions not because he lost ability but because ISU makes him to. He's so precious and I, as a fan of his, do want to see him compete as long as possible. One thing though, I want him to bring new programs for both short anf free next season, well if there is another. Maybe the repetition of his programs might have affected judges. If he makes up his mind to go to Beijing, I want him to bring the "winning" programs, not just tribute programs to his idols. I hope to see new, fierce Hanyu until the very end.
I am finishing my college/history thesis at this very moment while listening to this and that. I typically do not write many comments but I just want to say thank you so much for what you do. It's great to see a channel that loves this sport and is not afraid to say what it thinks. It is refreshing and I always look forward to seeing these videos. Thank you both and Happy Holidays!!!
I stumbled across this channel by chance earlier this year and really enjoy the commentary and insights that you guys put out there for us. I almost never comment on posts, but I wanted to add to some of the things that were being discussed about Yuzuru Hanyu. I am very much an amateur skating fan but living in Japan, I get to see his interviews in Japanese too and he actually provided the answers to some of the things that you discussed here. 1. I agree that the 'solo' kiss and cry was not a play for sympathy. Hanyu had every reason to be confident going into the short program after his two near perfect performances in the series. He was genuinely shocked at his own under-par performance and said quite clearly that it had nothing to do with the absence of his coaches and everything to do with his own ability. 2. He also admitted that he was practising the 4A because, after the short, he thought that he couldn't possibly win. Performing in this particular venue had special meaning for him as it was the place that his idol and senior, Shizuka Arakawa won her gold medal at the Olympics. He said that he felt that he needed to do something to leave his mark and that was why he decided to let all hell loose and practise the 4A.....he also quite honestly added that if his coaches had been there, they would most definitely have stopped him and told him to concentrate on the competition at hand. If you follow his fans on Instagram...they were for the most part crying out for the coaches to get there and stop him before he did himself serious damage. He also admitted that it's possible that he fluffed his usually perfect 3A because he'd been practising the 4A,....that and the fact that he was totally drained after the 5 quads. 3. As for the comment about having 2 olympic gold medals that some people have mentioned....the background to that is that he has always been clear to the media that getting 2 olympic golds was his dream. After he achieved it, he said himself that he would have to rethink his goals.....he says that he has now found it. He wants to be number 1 again. I don't think it was arrogance. I think he was just trying to steer people away from his past achievements and towards his present level and goal. His English is still not that great so he doesn't really express himself that well....it's a huge contrast to how he speaks in Japanese because in his own language, he is seriously well-spoken and thinks about every single word that comes out of his mouth and the impact that it will have lol. 4. Finally, it's true that he was totally hamming it up for the audience at the end of his performance.....but considering that a huge percentage of the audience is Japanese, I think that it's kind of expected. He said in his interview that he was proud of himself for doing the 5 quads and successfully bringing the Lutz back into competition..and for fighting for the best result. He's still pretty pissed that he didn't win though lol. So, those are my observations. For the record, I also loved Nathan's routine this year and he thoroughly deserved the win. He was a truly gracious winner. As for the coaching situation, it hadn't crossed my mind that there might be trouble with Brian and the choice of coaches so I was really interested by your ideas on that. I'll look forward to seeing what happens and hearing your take on things. Sorry for the long comment!
This is awesome, thank you for giving us an insider understanding of what Yuzu is saying in Japanese. Your explanation did help us comprehend what happened this weekend with Yuzu. Thank you very much!
Exactly. Yuzu is more rational AND emotional than most people out there. And he always does everything for a reason. I just hope that he can adjust accordingly after this GPF. As he said, it was a very fruitful competition in many ways.
Guys, I really love listening to you but I realized something today, you have such a deep view of figure skating that goes so far back and see this new "age" of skating as a different sport. But, as a recent fan who got drawn in at the '18 Olympics, this new era is normal and thrilling and there's so much to love. I do look back at videos that Dave posts and search individual skaters to see their past performances but it seems almost strange to me...and I'm 64 and have watched figure skating off and on for years! Really neat to compare one's perspective with others!
Nathan is technically better than Yuzuru. No disrespect to Yuzuru, but when Nathan skates lights out like he did this past weekend at the Final, it's really hard to beat him. And Nathan deserves those high GOEs. He didn't make any mistakes. Hanyu did.
I'm not sure that's what GOE really is or is intended to be. You could skate with no mistakes but still not get great goe, for instance. For the record, I think he did deserve high goe for this performance, though I personally just can't give him 5s when memories of Fernandez's perfect quads still exist in my mind, lol. It's true that Chen doesn't get a good running edge out of his quads, so I couldn't always give him the takeoff/landing bullet required for positive goe over +3. Not negative, mind you - just neutral, and he has to have those first three bullets or it can't go over +3, those are the rules. So, 1.height and distance? Check. Absolutely 100% 2. Effortless throughout. Honestly? Debatable. He frequently muscles his way out of his landings because he lacks momentum and has to crank out into his transitions. (We see Eteri's girls do the same thing a lot.) 3. Good takeoff and landing: same. Can you call it a good landing when he's landing straight on top pf his blade like that with no running edge? It's not bad, it's not negative, but is it really positive? Because of this, on quite a few of his jumps I would hesitate to award higher than +3, based on the rules. His flawless air position can't be counted without those first three bullets, nor can his steps into the jump, or being right on the music. I feel like a lot of people don't know this about GOE rules, so, sorry if I'm saying something you already know.
Yuzuru Hanyu said in one interview that since there was a 12 points gap between him and Nathan, he knew it would be very difficult to win even doing 5 quads in the FP, so he wanted to try the 4axel. It was an important competition for him because of the GPF was held in the 2006 Olympic games arena, he was without a coach to stop him, he wanted to use the energy of all that it was happening to push harder the 4axel practice. He wanted to accomplish something, even with the risk of injury. And about the coach situation, everybody who follows closely Yuzuru Hanyu knows very well he is closer to Ghislain Briand, I see Yuzuru and Ghislain Briand joking around often, they seem to have a very close relationship. Even for gala practices who is with Yuzuru is always Ghislain Briand. I heard he helps Yuzuru with jumps, and it is what Yuzuru most needs to evolve at this point, I think. I remember in one interview, a couple of months after the Olympics, Brian Orser said that he had a talk with Yuzuru to know how he should help him from now on, it must be hard for Brian Orser to coach a two-times Olympic champion. Maybe Ghislain Briand can help more Yuzuru at this point. But I don´t believe he will leave TCC since Yuzuru said he likes practicing with elite skaters, it motivates him.
While I think Ghislain can help him on the technical, Brian still knows Yuzu very well personality wise and has been able to help him psychologically. Brian helped him get is head in the right space during 2017 Worlds to come back and skate the free skate he did. Yuzu has zero chill and I think Brian is able to help him reign it in when it matters. Though Yuzu managed very well in the free despite the popped axel considering it was his first time going for this layout and he'd only even practiced a 5 quad layout once. He probably still sees it as progress.
Actually, regarding Hanyu's quad axel attempts there was an interview last night with Japanese media, and according to it, after the short program, he knew he was not going to win this time so he just wanted to accomplish something else at least, rather than just lose there. And there wasn't a coach to stop him as we all know, so he thought maybe that was the moment for him to try the axel even though he KNEW it might have caused serious injuries or lost his stamina for the next day's competition. He said he was really frustrated after his short, and it seems that it's just his own way to deal with frustration. He surely does want to win every competition, we all know that he's really intense and competitive, but after gaining the title of two-time olympic champion, there must be more than just 'winning.' Maybe it's a two-time-olympic- champion-and-still-remaining-as- a-competitor-after-that thing. Most of us could hardly understand how he feels because he's the only skater who is doing such a thing.
There's another point that with his capability (like the sophistication and refinement talked in this recap) and all that he has accomplished, he now is on a way that no one else can get even closer to him at least in the next couple of years. I mean, at least, we should appreciate his presence in the competitions and more ambitious goals still to achieve.
@@bonnie9131 I totally agree with you, and he has to think about his every practice session carefully in the future. What he wants to achieve right now is even harder, he gotta control himself no matter what. As he said in the interview, he likes rivalry and competitions. I believe it really is the time for him to plan carefully to gain the balance.
@mish098aimer yes you are totally right, Japan does not care for him, I think Yuzu has realized with his GOE and PCS si obviously watered down, that he cannot beat politics, even if he can beat any and I repeat any skater in the current field
I actually think it’s so great for Nathan that he can do his skating and college because he’s spending a good chunk of time outside the world of skating and all the (sometimes toxic lol) fandoms. Tbh I could imagine his Yale peers having intense focus on grades/recruiting and maybe that potential influence to divide his attention/where the pressure is, is a good thing? Happy to see the two top guys having what looks to be a healthy friendship though
@@cede2412 lol psycho hanyu fan !! my hateful comments concerned his skating , asthma and his fans, so explain yourself fo ryou hate is explaining that he doesnt do flip in 4t3f combo lol grow up.. i am sick of hanyus so called " greatness" , he is not genius skater and i am entitled to my opinion!
Dave, do you think you would consider doing a judging video where you personally score Nathan and Yuzu's FPs? Maybe in the lag time between Nationals and Worlds? I kind of understand the anger behind the Fanyu vandal when someone gives that 4Lz a "1". Also, do you think the ISU just always wants to reward a more obviously heterosexual style? Does Yuzu need to wear a vest or cardigan? I know Nathan just wants to be comfortable but that shirt riding up his stomach during spins can't feel good. I think I like his mom's handiwork better after all. Who knew it could get worse? @@TheSkatingLesson
There was an interview with Brian where he said Yuzu was wild when he first started training with him, he had to reign him in and keep him in check. I feel like we definitely saw Yuzu a bit unchecked in this competition, for better or for worse. After all, this is a boy who said his skates are more important than his life. I think the fandom to a degree fules his ambitions. As the interviews stated... He considered jumping 4A after the short program knowing if the coaches were there they would've stopped him. He said he apologized to himself while making the attempts understanding full well it might've caused him injuries. I have a love and hate relationship with this part of personality. I think we also need to understand Yuzu is deeply emotional, he said he listens to sad songs to cry before a competition just so he can reset his emotions, that really goes to tell you how intense he is internally. I think competition is one place where he can unleash those intimate parts of him. I hope again and again luck is on his side, so even when he's making these wild choices he will be spared from injuries detrimental to his career.
This is all so shallow. They spend nine whole minutes fretting over why and how Hanyu lost, and all of two minutes criticizing Nathan's shirt. Okay guys, we get that you REALLY, REALLY prefer Hanyu and were (unlike most everyone else that isn't Japanese) shocked that Nathan blew Hanyu away by a gigantic 44 point margin. The least you could do is talk about the actual skating performances, in both of which Nathan was flawless. It's like giving Nathan a well-deserved compliment would absolutely kill you. As I said in another comment under a TSL video, if the worst you can say about Nathan is to make petty comments about his shirts, then he's doing everything right.
@@Trenton.D How is this even relevant to what I posted? I wasn't even talking about Russia, Japan as a whole, or where the "home" of figure skating is supposed to be.
Haha...I feel that all the opinions are personal and subjective anyways. We agree to disagree with other figure skating fans. I was trying to say something but decided to check out comments first. I'm glad you could articulate how people favored Hanyu to win couldn't comprehend why Hanyu lost to Nathan. For me as someone watching the clip of 2019 GPF last year without any preference of the winner in mind, it's so obvious who deserved the gold medal. Isn't skating a clean routine the basic to a top notch performance? But Hanyu hasn't been very consistent in his games throughout his career even his 2014 and 2018 Olympics LPs were sloppy. I just have issue with his inconsistency and can't get over it. From the get-go when I started to follow figure skating again last year, I did check ALMOST ALL the videos of Hanyu available on youtube out of curiosity, thanks to his fanatic fans. Lol...But I just can't force myself to appreciate his styles. Hanyu doesn't have many CLEAN routines in his record so far and I think clean skating is the BASIC! Besides, Hanyu doesn't have the elegance and the grace of Patrick Chan, nor does he own chic artistry as Nathan. His carriage always got me frown upon, not supposedly balletic or elegant even his music is more classical than modern. I wish Hanyu could control his arm and upper body movement in a more graceful way. The major issue I have with Hanyu's skating is his music interpretation! I'm a music person and unfortunately don't find Hanyu able to skate in sync with the music he selected most of the time. Perhaps he doesn't have very good choreographers. Not sure how people define skating skills. But personally, I consider carriage and limb/body movement a part of figure skating skills in addition to footwork. Hanyu is more lacking in this aspect compared to Nathan who's got very solid training in classic ballet and has very good posture when dancing to the music.
@@censoredyoutube4902 You're spot on about Hanyu's body line. His whole upper body is sort of slouchy, and he leaves his arms hang like wet noodles at his sides much of the time. There's no energy in his body. His limbs are never taught, and his gestures aren't literal and strong. It lends itself to him looking sloppy. I've always felt that, too. With Nathan, you can clearly see that his entire body is energized and engaged. Uno is like that too, but not Hanyu. The way he holds his body is always so slack and casual it looks lazy. Yet, he always gets high PCS marks for his "artistry" and expression. You are correct. Hanyu doesn't skate clean. Even Tara said in the NBC commentary of his '21 Worlds LP that he hasn't skated two clean programs back-to-back with all positive GOE since 2015. As you pointed out, even his Olympic programs aren't that great with the exception of his 2014 SP, but in the LP he fell twice with other wobbly landings and still won. He's said himself that he's not proud of his Olympic performances, including 2018, which also weren't clean. The truth is that if Hanyu hadn't won two VERY lucky Olympic gold medals, people wouldn't be talking about him much at all. When you look at his entire competitive record outside of those two medals, it's not that impressive, and there are skaters who have accomplished as much in less time and even more than Hanyu, even without two Olympic gold medals. Yagudin's and Plushenko's records crush Hanyu, yet they have only one Olympic gold each. Nathan has accomplished nearly as many gold medals in five short years (16) that it took Hanyu over a decade to earn (17). That means Nathan is the more winning skater and the better athlete. People are shocked when they hear that Hanyu never won both his Grand Prix competitions in a single season until just last year. Yet, he's suppose to be "the greatest"? Hanyu is like a dead celebrity. After they're gone, we romanticize them and say how incredible their performances were. Then one day, we go back and actually watch them and realize they weren't nearly as good as we remembered them to be.
@@L1623VP As I started to pick up more and more performances of some of the most decorated figure skaters I'd missed since 1990s, I'm more confirmed about what the dubious claim by crazy Fanyus that he's a legend and GOAT. GOAT my ass!!!!!!! Figure skaters like Alexi Yagudin and Patrick Chan obviously had more theatrically appealing elements in their program components than Hanyu in general. And they executed these artistic components in more graceful ways than Hanyu. Again, as I said, it's mainly the carriage issue and music interpretation. Comparing all the performances in their games during their pinnacle, Hanyu isn't comparable to these iconic figure skaters at all. Chan skated brilliant LPs from 2010-2012 with clean routines and very nicely executed quads. Hanyu's most boasted program component isn't even on the same scale as Chan's. Talking about techniques alone, Hanyu is far subpar to Nathan. Not to mention Nathan has his own unique chic style. Therefore, Hanyu's fame was all hyped up by those crazy fanyus and I think two Olympics gold by luck facilitated the hype to a great extent. Hanyu is overrated imho. I wasn't sure to say so months ago. But after watching more routines from other stellar skaters in the past, I'm confident of my judgement. He is not a legend and the spotlight he's always enjoyed will be quickly dim.
Nathan hates those tight fitting costumes. He wants to feel comfortable on the ice so going back to those tight costumes is no longer acceptable for him.
I’m pretty sure I read somewhere that he said his mom made these shirts not Vera. Guess he generally prefers a baggier fit. He should just use more spandex in the fabric and get a tighter fit.
I don't think Alena has insentive to change her flip technique. It gets amazing heigh and GOE. Some of the best jumpers (i.e. Ito) have had leg wraps, so it doesn't seem like something to change.
So I am a Hanyu fan and tbh the past few days were pretty emotional for me as I get absorbed in every single movement and expression of him. So just want to thank you guys for putting things in perspective. To me he was such a fighter during that free skate and watching him like that makes me very very emotional in both good and bad ways. But tbh this GPF was a mess (from no coach to the 4A to the YOLOed free skate and everything). Of course he does everything for a reason which he actually explained thoroughly of every single thing he did (the 4A, the 5 quads FS, how no coach affects him and everything else) and he knows what he is doing. He is definitely not in his best condition for this GPF and I'm sure he knows this. I just hope that he can adjust accordingly (with the help of whoever) and continue to be this hungry
Do you think his fans would rather he keep going even if he consistently loses to Nathan (and try for another Olympic medal), or are they ok if he retires at the end of this year?
@@kristenjunker1632 Honestly he knows what he wants and if he is willing to go for 2022, as fans we will support him all the way. But he has said before that he will retire when he is not able to compete at the highest technical ability or something along those lines. I don't think 2022 is in his picture right now but I highly doubt that he will retire by the end of this season.
@@kristenjunker1632 I don't think he'll be willing to retire before securing the first 4A in international competition, unless injury forces him out. Then if and when he does it, he's going to want to secure the first Olympic 4A even if he can't win gold against Chen. This is speculation but his personality is pretty predictable in this regard, isn't it?
Women's figure skating is sad now ☹️ women's skating isn't women's skating if only 15/16 year olds can do it. In this era, Carolina Kostner wouldn't even have a chance. How sad is that?
It must be extremely hard for Alina to find motivation to practice at home because her skating rink back in Russia is basically an Olympic training ground. When you've already won the Olympics and everything else possible it's hard to skate alongside these medal hungry girls who dream only of going to the Olympics. And skating with coaches who have the new philosophy that you need to train a quad if you want to be successful. How can you go to practice every day when you know you won't win another Worlds or Olympics and your coach only cares about training skaters to be potential Olympic medalists.
@@Sennagod Wow how dare they post their opinion on a PUBLIC comment section. Truly the work of the devil having an opinion. The utter disgust. How can you call yourself an Alina fans when you're completely chill with the fact she is clearly suffering? Her skating and her jumps worse of all are dipping in quality and its clearly affecting her confidence. How can somebody skate for joy when they are falling apart? Looking at her face after the FS and during her speech at Gala when she announced she couldnt skate at the Gala, it was heartbreaking. You cant skate for the joy of it when you quite literally cant skate due health, injury, emotional or mental reasons. Alina is clearly having more fun at that Sleeping Beauty ice show she is a part of than competing.
Yuzu said he popped that 3A because he was practicing 4A, and that messed it up. He also said he ran through the entire program with 4Lz only ONCE. I think the mistake he made in the short, regardless of the coach situation - was completely unexpected from everyone including himself and his team. The point gap between him and Nathan after the short lit a fire under his ass, and it led to him meaninglessly practicing 4A, and adding 4Lz into the program. The key takeaway from this event should be that Yuzu being perfect with his toeloops and salchows as usual just isn’t enough anymore with the amount of GOEs and PCS that Nathan gets now. Yuzu HATES losing. That’s what drives him, and that’s why he’s the best male figure skater of all time. I think this event further solidified that Yuzu is the one challenging Nathan now, not the other way around. That might work in his favor. Just remember the way Patrick Chan pushed him to become better and better.
Neither Trusova nor Yuzu can do a six quad program without all of the quads (excluding axel). You can only repeat one quad maximum. So you can’t do two quad lutzes and two quad flips/loops. For example Chen said that now to do a six quad program he would have to bring the loop back.
Hanyu still suffers from asthma, but he's 2 time Olympic champ and very matured. actually when you hear him Japanese he is always very determined. he knows about skating and competitions better than anyone else. he said his ultimate aim is winning 9 year old boy himself who never stops challenging and that's why he wanted to try 4A. never under estimate Mr. Hanyu.
David's face at 31:15 in reaction to Jonathan's 'yes' to glittery snakes on a costume. Fantastic! That expression said it all.😂 and as a lamb, I will just say this:JUSTICE FOR GLITTER!
This Grand Prix final in both Junior and Seniors showed how exciting the ladies field is, and how the men's fields are kind of a mess. I'm loving seeing the depth of talent in the ladies fields. Guys, get it together (except for Hanyu and Nathan of course)
I read that they made the decision for Ghislain to go with Yuzuru, it wasn't a choice because Katerina is preparing for Polish nationals and so are the other skaters, Evgenia and Jason. That makes more sense since Brian is the head coach and has a lot more skater than just Yuzuru. I think there is drama but not with Ghislain going to the GPF instead of Brian.
I really appreciated this video that gives me more perspective about Yuzu’s skating also about Nathan’s skating. I think Nathan is a great skater and Yuzu truly respect him. The reason I like Yuzu is never because he is a champion, I like him because of his personality and artistry. I know he will be replaced by new and stronger skater in the future, but I also know he will give all to fight before it happens. And this is the spirit we cherish.
I think Yuzuru's presentation is over-rated. I REALLY noticed the floppy arms in this free skate. It's one thing to be relaxed, but it almost looks like he doesn't care. On the quad axel, I think he had absolutely no plan to include the 4A in the program. With the return of the 4Lz, doing the 4A in practice might really shake Nathan. I think his only chance to beat Nathan (in this particular scenario) would have been for Nathan to crack. It's like Zagitova doing 3Lz-3Lo-3Lo-3Lo-3Lo-3Lo-3Lo in the Olympic practice sessions. It serves no purpose but to psych out other competitors.
Squirrel Hubris is excessive pride or self-confidence and that’s what he exhibited. Pride is different from arrogance. As the interview stated he wanted to leave a mark. That is pride talking. And it’s the excessive self-confidence that made him jump the 4A in a practice session - so risky and unnecessary since he’s never even landed it. Ergo, hubris.
I think having no coach during the competition did affect him in some way. He said in a interview that he thought of why his coaches couldn't be with him.
I agree with you that Yuzu used to be overscored at certain points, and now they are overscoring Nathan/underscoring Yuzu. I understand this is skating politics to create super stars, attract media, fans and of course to gain profits. But But I want to say even this is the fact in figure skating now, it doesn’t mean is right. It might be a ideal thinking, but people including judges, community, media and fans should try as much as they can to reach the fair judgement. Yes it sounds like an unreachable goal but at least we should work towards this direction, not just saying it happens, accept it and do nothing about it. Cuz it will harm this beautiful sport eventually and all skaters they truly deserve this. Lastly, I remember when Javi retires he said: “Throughout my career I’ve been mad when the judges put me first after a bad skate. But I’m mad also when I skate well and get penalized. Judges have the slow motion and they can check” It breaks my heart. This is the reason why we should change the sports. I hope less and less great skaters feel the same way and leave the sports with this kind of regrets and sadness.
@DOMINICK THORP Not sure if I'll get this right. It's understandable to give negative GOEs to popped jumps but to give as low as -5 for successful jumps (not cleanly landed but did not fall) is atrocious. Yuzu messed up on landing the jumps but the usual transitions and difficult entries to jumps were still there. Thus, -1 to -3 GOE at most should've been enough. He still wouldn't win but he should've gotten a higher score. There's more according to some but I am not knowledgeable to discuss them.
The thing about Yuzu's over scoring is that while he was overscored he was also underscored at the same time (and more often than not it was also the fact that other skaters aren't penalized for some stuff like using the full Blade instead of the toe pick where Yuzu and only a few others actually do the correct jumps which... OK but then skaters like Yuzu or Boyiang should get bonuses for doing it well).... So they usually balanced each other and while he could overall be overscored sometimes, the gap between his score and the one he should have gotten wasn't that big (and there were performances where he was just plain underscored). The problem here is that the gap between Nathan's score and the one he deserved is way too big. Like he totally deserved the win, that's a no brainer but that scores way too much (and then you can add Yuzu's slight underscoring, but tbh it's not even a matter of comparing the two)
Everyone knows Yuzuru is a Master of our times. The Wall Street Journal said that he is the greatest skater that ever lived. That said, it seems that all the swooning is a little over the top and patronizing to Yuzuru. As much as he loves his fans I think it is a little cringey. It is like the figure skating world is more concerned about soothing his feelings than focusing on the person who actually won the GPF. Ah what his name? Oh yeah, Nathan Chen, who deferred to Yuzuru at the press conference. He said Yuzuru is an idol of his and that every time Yuzuru steps on the ice something miraculous happens. What should have been Nathans moment was all about Yuzuru's disappointment., FOR DAYS on end. Don't you think that Yuzuru feels uncomfortable about that? Give the man some dignity.
I think it's inevitable when a person commands that much attention. I don't think Nathan is offended by that, I think he's above feeling small because of it. He's doing his own thing, skating great and being rewarded for it. And he has his appreciators too, it's just pointless to compare size wise because Yuzuru is a point out of the curve.
@@squirrelsanity Absolutely, Natan has too much class to be petty. Looking at a X and Y graph I can't place Nathan on the curve either. The fans should do what Nathan and Yuzuru and do: Admire what is wonderful in the other and love the sport.
@chima chibi i mean they can't throw the rolex watches to the ice lol. Flowers and stuffed animals are the standard stuff to throw, everyone gets those, males and females. But Yuzuru has such a huge fanbase that his happens. And he donates them all to local hospitals and orphanages so at least they go to a good place :)
@chima chibi Nathan's coach asked extra preparation time, since then the next skater is allowed to use much longer time. toys go kids hospitals so better than flowers. but yes, if you don't like them, it should be no flowers no toys , no cheers, the same color costumes, no music. they should compete with jumps and technique. it's much fair.
nathans costumes screamed lazy to me, and his psc and goe's were so overscored it was just funny to the point of not even taking it serious.... the point difference was huge; i know yuzu had mistakes but he masters every aspect of skating..... you all can argue that nathan has great skating skills, but he's still not even in the same category.....
Yuzu's quad axel attempts were just insane. He seems obsessed with being superior at every tiny thing. While it's admirable, he will end up breaking himself in half over it. Winning a jumping battle in a practice session is not as important as the big picture of 2022.
I don't think he cares for 2022 as much. It wasn't in his original plan but he was still too hungry to just quit after Pyeongchang. He said his main goal is the 4A and until them at the same time staying competitive for a gold and skating well, not letting his skating quality go out of the window and even try to improve it, making those damn tributes he cares about etc. (basically not making a fool of himself on the ice while at the same time he's off ice talking about a 4A). He wanted to do it since he was a kid and is obsessed with it. He'll either land the 4A then retire before 2022 or end up going to Beijing because he didn't land it yet. Or break himself in half, not do it at all and retire.
It was reckless and pointless, debuting his 4A in its current state. UR, not close to being landed. For someone who is a “showman”, the unveiling of 4A felt anticlimactic.
@@bakedpotato6653 His coaches weren't there! In that way, he reminds me of a teenager with the parents gone for the weekend and the house to himself. In the same sense that every writers needs an editor, every skater needs a coach.
@@bakedpotato6653 I was in the practice session and it was the opposite of anticlimatic. I also thought it was reckless but I felt was Yuzu wanted to achieve there and I applaud him for that. Those jumps were astonishing!
Although our wonderful TSL guys don't (and probably won't) get it: yes, they do fire people in Russia too, but they don't fire *friends/family*. The only scenario where Daniil is out of the team is if HE decides to leave.
@@ReginaFarfalla they're giving these programs for international competitions, so the meaning of the words /movie... Should be taken into account regardless of whether the skater understands the lyrics or not.
@@cyrielle_ that's why they opted for an instrumental version. No words and so only the music matters. Besides, not only English speaking people watch figure skating. Imagine an Asian skater choose a Japanese or Korean soundtrack. You would not have a clue what is it about.
TRAUMATIZED! Apropos of that, I recently rewatch Kaetlyn Osmond’s no-lyrics Big Spender SP... It is *brilliant*. Lance Vippon (?) did such a masterful job incorporating the Fosse choreography
I recently watched a short documentary on Yuzu about the 2016-2017 season when he was really focused on quad jumps (I think it was a quad loop but I'm not sure). The general thing was he was losing PC scores because he was messing his jumps and forgetting about skating skills and in there Brian referred to him as "a child with a new toy" and wanted him to first train his skating skills to have a great foundation to do those amazing jumps as well. In the end, they had the talk and Yuzu listened to Brian and during practices, he didn't do many jumps bu more of the skating itself. So I think that's the kind of moment again where he wants to win so bad and it starts to get chaotic so if Yuzu gets a solid plan working forward I believe WC could be amazing. (sorry if I said something wrong I'm kind of a new fan of the sport so don't know much yet 😁)
I also just wanna say it was absofuckinglutely bittersweet watching Marie France's teams go 1-2-3 in the same Olympic venue where 13 years ago, she and Patch were injured and forced to withdraw. My moment of the week!!
Alysa Liu still skates very "childish", and this isn't to knock her, she is 13 after all! But yes, her lack of skating skills really showed here against the other skaters. Her slowness and lack of flow out of jumps especially really detracts from her technical content. All of the other skaters presented much more sophisticated, elegant, and mature. Alysa does have an inherent star quality, so I hope they get it together and get her some solid skating skill training.
She's 14. And I don't think junior skaters, some only 13, can be described as sophisticated, elegant and mature. After her short program, everyone was high on her. No mention of speed or skating skills. It only became an issue because she made mistakes in the long. Her mistakes on her elements are what cost her the gold, not her speed or flow.
@@skatefan9495 I think we have the same point? Without her tech content, she wouldn't be top three. The rest of the field are much more well rounded skaters. It's the same with Trusova-if she doesn't hit her tech content, she doesn't have the skating skills, musicality, spins, etc to win. My point is they need to "round out" Alysa as a skater, she has the potential but isn't fully developed yet.
@@garysimmons1485 This is the same skater that competed with a towel on his head at COC when he should have been pulled from the event after his collision with Yan Han. He fell 5 times and risked a more serious injury skating injured like that and Orser neglected his responsibility by not having him withdraw. There comes a time when the coach has to think about the well being of his skater and pull rank and not let him skate regardless if Hanyu wanted to skate or not. At 19 guys think they are invincible and are not always in their right mind and that's when the coach has to step in..
Hi. I have really come to enjoy your episodes recently. As you say, I think Yuzuru will be able to win over Nathan again now that his 4Lz is back, but that is ONLY IF he is judged FAIRLY. Looking at the SP protocols, I was shocked to see that as many as THREE judges gave him only +4 for his 3A and SIX judges gave him only +4 for his 4S, when they clearly deserved +5. I was even more shocked to see that Nathan’s 4S in his LP got the EXACT SAME GOE as Yuzuru’s 4S in his SP and two judges gave Nathan’s 3A in his LP +5s. That says a lot about the quality of judging in this event. In almost all elements I felt that Yuzuru was underscored and Nathan was overscored, and in the end the little differences amounted to a lot. Looking at the SP scores for the two this season, Yuzuru skated a nearly perfect SP at NHK and only got 109. Nathan skated a nearly perfect SP at GPF and got 110. Comparing the details of the two programs, this was infuriating. The judge panel being different shouldn’t be an excuse. Jackie Wong pointed out that Yuzuru’s weakness is in that he goes for 100% when only 99% is enough. Well, I don’t blame him, he needs it to get the points he deserves. Seeing the dubious underrotation calls for Yuzuru at ACI and the judging here, the ISU’s (or USFS’s?) intention of boosting Nathan while holding down Yuzuru has become too obvious and it’s gone too far. Nathan has improved greatly since Pyeongchang. At Worlds 2019 and here, he won safely and would have done so without any help from the judges. Yuzuru and Nathan have such a wonderful rivalry, I just wish the judges would let the two skaters battle it out fair and square every time. It would make it much more exciting and will allow skating fans, including Hanyu fans, to enjoy Nathan’s talent and abilities much much more.
BV and judging aside, It seems that one big weakness Hanyu has vs. Nathan is that he doesn’t compete well against him. Hanyu’s best competition this season was at SCI, against no one who could challenge him. In comparison, competing against Hanyu seems to bring out the best in Nathan. Two clean competitions in a row against Hanyu, with this many quads, something like this has never been done before.
@@bakedpotato6653 It was the first time in two years that Yuzuru was competing against Nathan in a healthy and well-trained condition. I think he was confident about winning this time until he saw the 110 points given to Nathan. That's probably when some doubts crept in. It's easier to compete when you know the judges are on your side, whereas for Yuzuru, it's as if his biggest competition is always the judging panel. What made it worse was that he had no coach there to comfort him.
@mish098aimer I totally agree. Up until this GPF, I had some hope (maybe 10%) that I could see him at Beijing. But after seeing the judging here, I don't think he will make it through mentally. What a shame, because I believe winning a 3rd Olympic gold is physically possible.
@mish098aimer My heart breaks for him because all judges need to do is give Yuzuru's 4A +4s and give Nathan's 4Lz +5s to nullify Yuzuru's efforts. I guess this intention has always been apparent in the ridiculously low BV of4A.
@@akblades6338 had yuzu skated his sp clean it would've been a world record, judges gave yuzu very high goes for his first 2 jumping passes they were generous so dont make it seem as if the judges r not yuzu's side or bs like that, U nail the perfomance and judges give u the rewards. Yuzu's problem is he knows deep down he is no match for Nathan's incredible abilities and strength and its playing on his mind, if competing against any other yuzu might still win with few mistakes here and there but with nathan he cant afford ANY mistakes and its pressuring him.
I have lost so much weight thanks to you two -- everytime anything figure skating related is on I save it to do Insanity to, and your videos are so long that you're unintentionally causing me to rapidly shed the pounds (the people in the flat underneath mine hate you)
To Jonathan's point about KMT: I've been watching her in the K&C and she's been constantly working so hard to manage Michael's emotional states, for years now. So, to see her this week finally stop doing that was a good thing. I may have shouted, "About time!" at my screen.
Are they a couple? I got the impression from her IG they are? Nothing else explains this pairing to me. She could've had ANY male skater in Canada. But she has to dim her light to match Michael. Which makes them boring, which she never was before! She's a sparkling star, not these droning programs!
Maria Kazakova and Georgy Reviya are 18 and 20 years old. The max age for Jr men is 21. They skated two fantastic programs to win the final. They were 6th at last year's final behind both the American and Russian teams they beat here. It's exciting how much they've improved over the last year. I'm a big fan of their skating.
I totally agree. I've been a fan of theirs since the last JFP finals. Jonathan was being a bit catty when he suggested they were too old to be competing for a junior title. In fact, it turned out to be a smart decision for them since now they have an unexpected JGP title to their name.
Thank you Dave for your honest opinion on Allysa Lu. This GPF is the first time I watched Allysa Lu skate even though I knew she did win the US National Champs last season. I watched her programs here at the GPF just to see what the hype was all about. I was quite shocked at her skating skills compared to Daria and Kamilla's. In the SP, Allysa was awarded the same PCs as the other 2 girls which I thought was hughly inflated. In the FS again, she was given 60 which is still way overscored. Even her so called quads and Axels weren't that great either, they were squeaked in and tightly landed.
I would like to give some of my thoughts on Yuzuru vs. Nathan. I don’t agree with people saying Yuzuru was underscored in PCS. More than ever before I saw him struggling physically and stamina was very low in the second half of the program - his skating was more than ever tired, slow and transitions and moves not that precise. No wonder, he just landed 5 (!) quads. We all know PCS goes down with mistakes so clean Nathan was able to pass Yuzuru (on this occasion!) rightfully. I believe Yuzu is still a class above Nathan in all PCS sections but not on that night I’m afraid. That being said I honestly don’t understand Yuzu’s GOEs on some of the jumps. Notably 4lo and 4lz. That lutz was +5 quality and I believe loop too. There was a judge who gave Yuzu +1 on that Lutz, I mean, seriously?! I am really the last one to call out underscoring but this put me off. Obviously in comparison to Nathan, Yuzu lost around 4 points on his 4T + eu + 3F and around 17 on 3A seq 3A. Did I miss something? Maybe. So around 21 points which would put him 121 in TES and, if skated clean, would raise his PCS to around 95/96. Which would still score significantly lower than Nathan. Here is my question. Is Yuzuru’s reign over? I honestly don’t know. This is the first time that I am afraid it might be true. And to be honest, I don’t understand it. I still think Yuzuru is a better skater than Nathan, definitely in PCS and in terms of smoothness and quality of jumps, too. But what does it say about the trend of figure skating? This also applies to female skating. Skaters are hurrying for quads, 5-6 in male, but also FEMALE skating. This necessarily leads to either programs being full of crossovers and empty choreo or tired skaters totally out of breath not having much left, let alone interpret the story and music, which is, after all in my opinion, the point of figure skating. I have an utmost respect to Nathan or Trusova, their physical abilities, pushing the limits of this sport further and further. However, it is not the way I myself prefer. I still go back to GPF 2015 where Yuzuru performed 3 quads in Seimei program and I will forever cherish this as a moment to remember, his program was so well balanced and composed. However, my crying here will not stop the progress of this sport so I will be happy for those moments Yuzuru still skates like a God or those of Kostornaia beating a girl with 5 quads with triple axels and beautiful skating.
He still got about 35 % GOE on 4Lz (which did not have the smoothest landing, lots of snow) and almost 40 % on 4Lo. So he didn't exactly get hosed on GOE, although I personally would have given him 45-50 % for the 4Lo. And the rest of his GOE and the PCS in particular were pretty accurate, overall some of his landings didn't look that stable/confident, so I honest to god have no idea why so many of his fans are complaining about underscoring. And don't get me started on his PCS... the guy was looking down on the ice for most of the program, hunching, dangly arms and only throwing in a few hollow feeling gestures here and there. I didn't get refinement or precision from that, things his admirers claim he has, I also didn't get a feeling of presence and charisma and he visibly ran out of steam towards the end, which coupled with the mistake on the 3A combo sucked out the energy out of what otherwise would have still been quite a triumphant program for him. (I know you did not criticise the PCS that he got, I'm referring to what many others said about his PCS)
I don't think Yuzu is over, but he actually hasn't beaten Nathan in a program in awhile. The last time was the Olympic SP I believe? Of course they haven't competed together a lot since then. That being said, I'm starting to realize that Nathan performs better with Yuzu while Yuzu performs better without Nathan. Why that is, who knows. I'm also not saying Yuzu is uncle status nowadays, but Nathan is the age of Yuzu after his first OG. The best for him is still to come as long as he stays reasonably healthy and he seems to really takes a lot of effort in not tiring or injuring himself.
@mish098aimer In this particular competition if yuzuru deserved 93 pcs Nathan definitely deserved 95 or higher. In addition to 2 mistakes on his jumps, Yuzu was cautious from the beginning and ran out of steam halfway. He could barely hold his ending pose. I felt the judge was extremely generous toward him on the PC.
@mish098aimer no yuzuru was overscored PC wise in this competition. He was at perhaps 75% of the quality that he delivered in previous competitions. By saying that I mean yes I agree he is an overall more refined skater than Nathan in term of skating skills and presentation.
This and That is one of my few things I set aside for myself each week. Thanks guys for the content you create, and simply extending your passions to all of us. This episode is my favorite of 2019 so far. And Dave I do love that sweater!
@@zhonglaoshi1 and that's why we have rules and bullets for GOEs. In case you didn't know the bullets for men and women are the same. Nothing is stated on the rule book about a woman jumping a quad getting higher GOE than a man. How about judging them accordingly based solely on the rules 🤔
@mish098aimer what about Tracy? don´t you think she has played a major role in the history of success of these 3 skaters? I honestly think she is the real gem behind this team, and I´m not trying to be disrespectful to BO or his achievements nor even rude to you
@@evanperilstein5308 Yuzu only had a 4T i and a very unreliable 4S before moving to Orser, everything else happened under his coaching. Also the overall skating skills didn't happen magically by themselves, all of that had to be taught and practiced.
When I first saw Nathan with his new costume I thought it was something loose and comfy simply for the practice session. Good thing he is good enough to not need to rely on a good costume!
It’s really fascinating how quick everything changes in ladies seniors. People fell in love with Alina at Olympics and now spoil the Gran Prix to Eteri and the team, blaming that they didn’t give enough attention to the Olympic and world champion, didn’t prepare and help her. They get a lot of hate and it’s no one’s fault. So we are just staying numb as you said and broken hearted. Like in fashion we had supermodels and later lots of girls, we won’t recognize now.
Zagitova's skates are all about mentality. She is confident and stable when she knows her TES is the highest and she can win if she goes clean even if others are clean too. Knowing she can't beat clean Eteri girls and Rika is making her give up after a mistake because she won't win anyway. I think she'd feel a lot more confident if Tutberidze actually pushed her TES content. And she was enjoying skating like she said but getting buried under new girls is obviously hurting her pride. I just wish she'd train with someone else since Dudakov doesn't seem to be working with her in any way despite making Kostornaia's 3A work after being injured all summer sooo
@@athinker4024 She doesnt UR as much as people make it out to be, she UR at her bad skates when she makes mistakes/falls which are happening a lot more recently, usually she has good height on triples but her problem is rotation speed which Eteri should be working on but as we can see dont give a f
I am convinced that Eteri´s technique doesn´t work for matured bodies. Alina is still in the process of growing. The change in her body; especially the upper body; is quite obvious in comparison with last year. I´m not an expert but I think the only express way for her to overcome UR is loosing weight before the Nationals.
I am really tired of hearing all the negative comments about Nathan's overscored PCS and GOE. It really tarnished his achievement which is not fare to such a wonderful skater. I am only a casual fan. I would like to ask any experts to give a fare score for Nathan's awesome performance? Thank you.
@mish098aimer Thank you for your information. I am sure Nathan will keep working on his artistry. I think he recognized the score was too high. That's why he wasn't too exciting when he heard the score.
Love you both for engaging in a conversation with different opinions and presenting your points to each other in such elaborated way with such passion that we can actually totally switch opinions as soon as the other speaks. Like "he's right" oh no "he's right too" oh well "they're both right" even if you have opposite mind on a subject. Awesome guys!!
Nathan clearly likes the fit of those shirts and feels comfortable in them. Last nationals VW made him that black and orange onesie that he changed out of after the practice and ended up wearing a practice outfit because it was tight and uncomfortable.
Honestly I like them. I mean, the color for the free maybe isn’t the best but the shirt for the short I honestly kind of like. I’m not a super big fan of these super tight and obscenely sequined up costumes.
Stephanie Lloyd I agree completely. I didn’t like the colors of either (I actually preferred the multicolor shirt from his two earlier events) but I like the style and the simple black pants / long-ish shirt combo because it’s clear he skates better in these outfits and is more comfortable compared to the fitted one-pieces. He seems to realize it’s working for him. During the nationals FS practice, when he had on that black/orange one-piece, he kept pulling it away from his thighs like it was giving him a front wedgie. Obviously you aren’t going to skate your best if you feel uncomfortable. Long live the baggy shirt!
RKS CA I’m not a super huge fan of the yellow one but to me this and the multicolored one scream “I’m just trying to please you with something more than black” because clearly the fit of them aren’t going to change.
@RKS CA I'm sorry but that yellow blouse he wears has nothing to do with Elton John or the seventies. Nothing whatsoever. And neither did the previous version of this top.
I was already in bed! I saw the notification and jumped to grab my laptop! By the way thanks Jonathan for the effort! And yes, we couldn't wait until monday. I am sure I was not the only one checking all the time!
I have to admit that I was just suckered in as a fan for Alina after all the dramatics at the olympics . I was really rooting for her to do well . I imagine though trying to succeed in an environment like that where your best won’t ever get you a medal is pointless. Sad that the girl is only 17.
@@zhonglaoshi1 if she changed nationality, her entire country would set her on fire, she would loose all her commercial contracts. See what reaction Medvedeva got for "having the nerve" to TRAIN under a non-russian coach in a different country. There isn't much option. Either she can keep her current level ( top 5 Russian girl) and is satisfied with that and uses it to bank ice shows and contracts ( she's still Olympic champion and a very pretty girl), or she's ready to move on.
@@rahelhorvat1471 No she didn't, Rika did not have a combo in the short, she fell. Who knows what would have happened had she landed it. She also took a fall in FS quad sal
Came back to watch this. It is always difficult for champion to accept defeat, it happened to Diaisuke, Patrick Chan, it would the same with Yuzuru. He came to realize it another era is coming (5 and more quads) and he shifted to try to accomplish his childhood dream of 4A before his retirement.
I discussed the Schindler's List costume with one of my best friends whose parents were Holocaust survivors. Her sister was hidden by a Catholic family for a few years, but then, ultimately she was discovered and killed by the Nazis. My friend was born in America in 1951. Her take on this costume was totally different than most. She felt that the costume was "half business suit"..as in life before the Nazis..and then the other half being the uniform of the camps. She felt if it represented the camp guards it would have looked more militaristic. She was not offended by the costume at all. She felt that the program/costume was a remembrance. That was her take. I am a Catholic so my opinion is not relevant.
Because im rene a member of FSU...(PTSD from the red screen of death)Jenny and heathers page AND an original day one member of Michelle kwan forum... we have the (almost)same birthday... omg THIS HAS TO BE YOU!!! I think i sent you a copy of my nat’s 93 with michelle for the michelle compilation dvd for mkf marketplace? i havent been on there for years.. but still get happy birthday’s from them every year 😢 XOXOXO
idolfan9495 I definitely agree with that statement, but the USFS was expecting so much out of Alysa and she didn't win like they wanted her to. So they could just as easily throw it in Mariah or Bradie’s favor.
I really hope she does. Nothing against her, but she should get like half the PCS or Mariah and they should be pushing Bradie and Mariah as they go to Worlds, not giving the national title to a child who can't compete
I’ve been unable to stomach H/D for years....I’m just glad to see a few more people agreeing with me. I know, you still love their “skating skills”. It’s their general program aesthetic that absolutely makes me gag. On the other had, that C/B free skate pulls me in and is absolutely one of the most interesting and enjoyable free dances in recent memory. Good stuff. I’m not a dance guy though.
Is the Zagitova situation any different than Tara Lipinski, Sarah Hughes, Adelina Sotnikova, or Yulia? These girls were lucky enough to be born so that they were 15/16 at the Olympics and they peak at just the right time to win. Then they all retired shortly after. I personally don’t get the emphasis on the Olympic gold for that reason. Zagitova has accomplished a lot but the mentality that she already won everything and is not out to win more is not enough for Eteri, nor should it be, as Eteri is trying to prove that her girls are more than 1 season wonders. I’m also genuinely curious if each new Eteri girl thinks they’re going to be the exception, that they’re going to have a long sustainable career or if they’re just looking to be here for a good time, not a long time.
And this is why the age to qualify for seniors needs to be raised. There is no point in having juniors and seniors if 15 year olds can be considered senior ladies. Raise the limit and if they can still do quads as actual seniors, great, more power to them, allow them to do quads in the short program.
Mai ok, their career will not be long, but they will win everything or almost everything. It's the goal for sportsmen. Look at the Medvedeva. She still skates only because she didn't win the Olimpics. Som other skaters skates only because the just can't do anything else. Tuktic, for example, say it's just her work, she wants to get money from victories. It's better when you win everything early then you can go to study somewhere, to develop yourself in other thing except sport. And that's why yes, all the Eteri's girls know what they want
Fsmilka but that’s exactly why there is a flaw in that logic. Only one of the three will win the World Championships this year, so that means that whoever doesn’t win will want to try again next season. But the way the pattern is going, that may not even be a next season for these girls.
Mai with Eteri they have at least chance. But who are they without her. No one, without name, without victories. They have at least two years before Valieva can participate as a senior lady
Whenever I feel overwhelmed and insomniac-ish, I put on TSL. David and Jonathan's commentary and banter always manage to put me at ease. And up to speed with everything figureskating.
Bradie really did a great job but I’m so tired of her Disney princess long programs. She needs to do something like her short in her long , something with some pizazz , no princess crap. She’s too old for it.
Miss Mo I don’t agree that her lp this season is princessy. I find it melodic but more grown up than her literal past Disney program. She looks like a new skater.
In this year at this level of competition, Bradie making GPF was almost shocking. She must have worked so hard and it showed. She deserves a lot more respect than she is getting. No American female skater was predicted to make GPF and yet she did it. Great job Bradie.
Terry O'Brien I’m not saying she stunk . I just don’t like her long program music . I thought she did great. The music is Disney princess like & she’s too old for it. I would like to see her skate to something with more pizazz is all I said ..
I would have said her Olympic LP was definitely Disney princess-y but not this one. Ennio Morricone definitely doesn’t do princess music. Lol I also think this is a great program from her and I loved it.
Alysa Liu: Everything you said, I agree. She’s talented and has lots of potential, but her progress needs to be monitored consistently by a robust team that can address every aspect of her career. I feel like her team primarily consist of her coach and her dad with a few others, but it’s not systematic as Eteri’s school. Alysa’s team has her fly to other coaches to learn more, but is that enough? I don’t know. I think, though, that the USFD will do something about it and bring the resources that she needs. They know that she’s one of their main hope for 2022.
I don't know why there wouldn't still be a lot of positives in alisa liu's finishing second in the Junior Grand Prix final.I thought that, in past videos, the question going into the season was whether she would deliver on the junior level or not. She seems to have delivered and proven that she knows how to compete and also how to move on quickly after an error.
I really wonder how Tutberidze team is going to close Alina's questions, because today Eteri received 2000 comments in instagram and 50 percent of them was critics, Daniil received 2000 of comments and 99 percent of them was critics. And Alina received 2000 comments with wishes not to give up and continue to skate. It is ruining young girls popularity somehow, because we are a little bit fanatical nation, most of the viewers came with Alina's Olimpic games and also part of the people expected Alina to have longer career to close the trust question with Julia, Zhenya, Elizabeth and other skaters. I think this Grand Prix final removed the pink glasses from many eyes and i am not sure that many people would like to see different smiling girl each year, while another one will be crying. Will they have constant viewers in this situation and promotion contracts during Olimpic season. I personally feel very pity in this situation, because i had unshakable trust to Tutberidze and it fell down, because finally i realised that the programs that they making only juniors can skate, and it is only based on strength of young female body. I really doubt how many years Sasha will jump 5 quads in long program and tripple axel in short. With her body type she was supposed to have a long and fruitful career. And while Sasha takes second place of popularity after Alina among Russian viewers, the decision of putting 5 quads with constant fall from it is also little questionable.
I wanna see Alina competing for a long time. She's so beautiful to watch. And I have to admit if she wants to stay in this field she needs to make a big change. Staying with Eteri won't do any good for her. Her mental isn't strong enough, her body type isn't suitable for Eteri's techniques, and her stamina can't hold programs with a lot of transitions everywhere. She needs to take it easy and learn from other skaters. Beautiful programs don't have to be full (really packed) of transitions, footworks, etc. If she really meant what she said about how she just wanna enjoy skating and doesn't care about placement anymore she really needs to do something asap before she get that mental breakdown and decided to retire. I really love her and I don't want her to retire. I wish she will have Tuktamysheva's mindset, trust the process. Fixing her issues and grow stronger takes a long time. But I believe she can do that, she is a fighter!
@@anandapatricia8442 yes, i agree. And the problem is that i don't see her with any Russian coach, as we don't have anybody compared with Tutberidze from the quality point of you and i still accept the thing that making these programs to her is still the lack of experience may be. May be they really didn't expect that she is not going be able to skate both these programs and that is the reason why didn't make something more easy for her. They should change everything, the whole concept of her skating. She started to have problems with her combo, she doesn't have body for doing it anymore. I don't believe they will send her to America or Canada, it will shake Eteri's image one more time, which is a problem in Russia. Alina is in the middle of this awkward situation and Eteri should challenge herself. Most of the people don't want to see Alina's torments on ice, because it can lead to injures. And this is not Alina's problem, because she trusts everything that they do for her. Daniil should challenge himself also, because Aliona for sure will have the same problem next year, her body is growing. He should think this or give this work to more experienced foreign choreographers. I don't know how they are going to solve this problems, as this group is obsessed with results and to have a star and adult skater in they camp they should overcome this obsession. It was really strange for me that they didn't post any photo with Daniil Samsonov who was actually third in his first Grand Prix final. And this Grand Prix showed new side of this group, Eteri did mistakes everywhere except Kamila in this final. I hope Alina will have the best which she can possibly achieve, because people love her, they want to see her happy and not injured. I don't understand why she should retire, if she wants to skate.
I honestly does not understand the problem. Every athlete is eventually surpassed by a newcomer, Olympic medalists inclyded. That is a natural order of things. I like Alina, but it is unrealistic to expect her skate equally good after winning just everything she could have possibly win. Younger, more eager and more ambitious and thus better emerge. That is interesting and good for the sport. Anf if Alina wants to skate let her do it. I think she does not have a problem with her ego. And maybe she wants to pursue her career in another field, or go to college. She has a plethora of opportunities and retire from a professional sport at 17 can only be good and rewarding. I recently read an interwiev with Sasha Cohen explaining how lost she felt when she had quit the sport because she stayed in figure skating for quite long and didn't know what else to do. Imagine Alina modelling or being a freshman at u university. Wonderful.
@@vesnaklanac4437 the problem is that girl wants to skate and she tells it and if she doesn't close this question normally, she will have problems in her future life. I don't know what nationality you are, but changing faces all the time is a problematic thing in Russia, because everybody takes everything too personal, my husband thought that somebody was dead yesterday, while i started to cry over the whole situation. Nobody from youngsters didn't share photos from Grand Prix final, i think it is a politics of the camp, as people started to search mistakes in girls kiss and cries and interviews. Zhenya lived bulling, Alina lived bulling, this is a cultural thing and it is nearly impossible to explain to everybody that it is something really bad. It is difficult to live it each two years, that is all
@@Olga___864 I understand your concern. I think I know russian mentality. By the way I am from Croatia, a slavic and an ex-communist country. I would be super happy for Alina to continue skating if she wishes so. And I thing Eteri is supportive of her. Athletes usually experience ups snd downs on regular basis, notably after being the best of the best. Look at Hanyu. It is the same thing. And if she is really adamant that she is here to stay, then she must change something, just like Hanyu. And let's be totally honest: she is heavier and her jumps suffer, while male skaters remain light as a feather. But then all the obese women in the world form a united front znd cry anorexia. Btw. I do not know what you meant when you mentioned bullying. Who bullied Medvedeva and Zagitova. As for pics from the GPF, I would advise all Eteri girls to be uber careful because there is so much hate and jealousy out there.
okay so are we gonna act like zagitova's jumps weren't really good at the beginning of the season. The test skates were spot on and the Japan Open. It wasn't just luck her jumps were very rotated.
@mish098aimer okayyyy but if she skated cleaaannnn and got a lvl 4 step sequence like she did here and even if she didn't get the lvl 4 she would still get 3rddddd
1:36:32 This is a small error you've guys talked about multiple times. You *cannot* repeat more than one quad by the rules. So if Trusova does two quad toes, she cannot repeat a flip or a lutz. It's why she keeps trying to add new ones because you can only repeat one quad - she literally cannot do a six quad program unless she has a quad loop by the rules.
@@JohnnyOpera1 This was the only major rule change that I can remember that didn't really have any explanation or justification. Second-half bonus change was about balance, pairs quad value change was nominally about safety (though I question that), this change was just done for seemingly no reason. I guess maybe to encourage diversity of jumps so it wasn't the same pass again and again ? IDK.
I find it interesting that Kostornaia is such a beautiful, elegant, feminine performer on the ice. And has such a questionable behaviour when she's off the ice. There were quite some criticism about her being on the phone the entire time during the final press conference. Also her comments in Russian that you can sometimes overhear are not the most appropriate for the situation.
Maybe that's what we get by having little girls competing as seniors and turned into "stars" when they haven't past this teenage phase. I didn't have the best feeling of her press conference, but we also need to take culture difference (Russians are generally abruptly honest and don't sugar coat their words or attitude) and competition fatigue into account. Trusova seems the most fun personality, Scherbakova has a "good student" attitude, and Kostornaia came across as the typical teen girl ( look: I just competed, l'm happy about it, I won, I'm not interested about answering boring questions, gimme my chocolate bouquet 💐 and let me rest ).
@Cindy Yeah I am aware. It was the first thing to hit my mind when I saw all those videos. Something straight out of the art of war. No evgenia in the GPF (probably ever again) then to take your last great star. Just for the drama I need to see it
The discussions from around 23:50 onwards about the comparison between Nathan and Yuzuru should be mandatory listening by all rabid fanyus who refuse to fully acknowledge Nathan's achievements in GPF '19 and think judges were wrong at throwing the PCS scores at his phenomenal free skate that defies belief, especially after a scratchy Yuzuru.
TIMESTAMPS:
00:57 - where is Jonathan and why is the Internet ‘bad’?
01:53 - Dave’s ice dance shirt + Jonathan’s high kicks
03:04 - ISU Awards discussion *sips tea*
**GPF Senior Men**:
10:09 - Yuzuru Hanyu situation (coaching situation, Yuzu’s practices, performances, and mentality) + comparisons with Nathan
29:17 - Nathan Chen ft. Vera Wang, Evan Lysacek
33:17 - old skating VHS of US Nationals ft. Deanna Stellato
34:39 - Kevin Aymoz
36:03 - Dmitri Aliev
37:46 - Mikhail Kolyada
38:13 - Dave’s friend Emily Alacar, at a clinic with Aliev
39:30 - back to Aliev
40:10 - Alexander Samarin
40:26 - Boyang Jin
**GPF Junior Men**:
40:33 - Shun Sato + Yuma Kagiyama
40:46 - Daniil Samsonov
41:43 - Daniel Grassl + Italian fans
**GPF Junior Ice Dance**:
42:30 - Avonley Ngyuen & Vadym Kolsenik
42:49 - Maria Kazakova & Georgy Reviya
43:30 - Loicia Demougeot & Theo Le Mercier + vague tweeting and comments
**GPF Senior Ice Dance**:
44:07 - Madison Hubbell & Zach Donohue ft. the fur coat
46:47 - PAUSE.
47:27 - back to Hubbell & Donohue
50:01 - Marie-France Dubreil: Political Genius ft. Zhulin, judging panels, Hubbell & Donohue vs. Chock & Bates
59:00 - overall discussion on the field + Gabriella Papadakis and her friendships with the 2 Madisons
1:00:47 - US ice dance Nationals
1:01:13 - Gabriella Papadakis & Guillaume Cizeron + Alysa Liu and being ‘outside’ the sport
**GPF Senior Pairs**:
1:08:20 - Kirsten Moore-Towers & Michael Marinano
1:15:00 - Aleksandra Boikova & Dmitri Kozlovskii
1:16:40 - Anastasia Mishina & Aleksandr Galliamov + Daria Pavliuchenko & Denis Khodykin
1:17:45 - Russian pairs, the coaches, and their Nationals
1:18:31 - Gracie Gold and Ksenia Stolbova
(1:48:55 - Wenjing Sui & Cong Han)
(1:49:57 - Cheng Peng & Yang Jin)
**GPF Junior Ladies**:
1:19:29 - Haein Lee
1:19:50 - the non-Eteri girls: Kseniia Sinitsyna, Viktoria Vasilieva + discussion on the impact of the short program in this event
1:21:30 - Daria Usacheva
1:23:41 - Kamila Valieva
1:24:02 - Alysa Liu ft. skating skills, Eteri and Kostornaya
1:27:21 - Eteri and Valieva ft. Ted Barton
1:28:14 - ISU’s livestream and commentary with Ted & Chris
1:29:35 - 1999 Sasha Cohen and Jenny Kirk
1:30:11 - upcoming TSL discussion on Ice Wars
**GPF Senior Ladies**:
1:30:33 - Alexandra Trusova + Eteri’s strategy
1:32:17 - Rika Kihira ft. Elizaveta Tuktamysheva (1:32:49)
1:33:32 - back to Eteri’s strategy ft. Liza Tuktamysheva
1:34:25 - Anna Shcherbakova + Anna’s 3F vs. Aliona’s 3F
1:35:41 - 3As
1:36:18 - Alexandra Trusvoa
1:38:19 - Rika Kihira
1:38:56 - Bradie Tennell
1:39:22 - back to RIka
1:40:11 - Aliona Kostornaya
1:40:47 - Anna Shcherbakova ft. her dress change, 4F
1:41:46 - the Russian ladies’ jump training with the bands
1:42:30 - Alina Zagitova + the interchangeability of Eteri’s girls + Kostornaya’s sustainability + can you be successful if you leave Eteri?
**Other (including skipped skaters)**:
1:47:33 - Carlo Fassi was right about where skating will end up…is it still the same sport? ft. Hanyu, Nathan
1:48:55 - Wenjing Sui & Cong Han
1:49:57 - Cheng Peng & Yang Jin
1:50:20 - general discussion on the GPF
1:50:46 - US ladies: Bradie Tennell, Alysa Liu, Mariah Bell
1:54:52 - Closing
Excellent!
THANKKKKKKKKKKKK YOUUUUUUUUU¡¡¡¡¡¡ really this is really good for us¡¡¡
I’m with Dave - Papadakis/Cizeron are competing as skaters, and the whole we are too artistic to bother with skating requirements is a load of bs. But what was more egregious that their marks didn’t reflect Gabi’s fall out of her twizzle. I mean there’s some real politics there.
Anusha Rasalingam ehhh they’ve been scoring like 88-90 all season. It was their lowest
Are we sure Nathan’s shirts aren’t for Vera Wang’s Kohl’s Collection?
As far as I know, fanyus are claiming NOT that Nathan's overscored, BUT Hanyu's underscored. Hanyu deserves to be treated rightfully. Just because he's been in this sport for about a decade and now in the older side doesn't mean he should be pushed away by the judges. I know there has been a certain trend towards "rising star vs. veteran," but that just doesn't justify the ridiculous goe for his 4lz and 4l, or -5 for the 4t combination in his free when he didn't even fall down. I seriously hope ISU stops doing that. I don't want him to feel lonely and decide to leave competitions not because he lost ability but because ISU makes him to. He's so precious and I, as a fan of his, do want to see him compete as long as possible.
One thing though, I want him to bring new programs for both short anf free next season, well if there is another. Maybe the repetition of his programs might have affected judges. If he makes up his mind to go to Beijing, I want him to bring the "winning" programs, not just tribute programs to his idols. I hope to see new, fierce Hanyu until the very end.
I am finishing my college/history thesis at this very moment while listening to this and that. I typically do not write many comments but I just want to say thank you so much for what you do. It's great to see a channel that loves this sport and is not afraid to say what it thinks. It is refreshing and I always look forward to seeing these videos. Thank you both and Happy Holidays!!!
Oscar Valencia I second your opinion on them
I totally agree! This channel is amazing. Thank you so much!
I stumbled across this channel by chance earlier this year and really enjoy the commentary and insights that you guys put out there for us. I almost never comment on posts, but I wanted to add to some of the things that were being discussed about Yuzuru Hanyu. I am very much an amateur skating fan but living in Japan, I get to see his interviews in Japanese too and he actually provided the answers to some of the things that you discussed here.
1. I agree that the 'solo' kiss and cry was not a play for sympathy. Hanyu had every reason to be confident going into the short program after his two near perfect performances in the series. He was genuinely shocked at his own under-par performance and said quite clearly that it had nothing to do with the absence of his coaches and everything to do with his own ability.
2. He also admitted that he was practising the 4A because, after the short, he thought that he couldn't possibly win. Performing in this particular venue had special meaning for him as it was the place that his idol and senior, Shizuka Arakawa won her gold medal at the Olympics. He said that he felt that he needed to do something to leave his mark and that was why he decided to let all hell loose and practise the 4A.....he also quite honestly added that if his coaches had been there, they would most definitely have stopped him and told him to concentrate on the competition at hand. If you follow his fans on Instagram...they were for the most part crying out for the coaches to get there and stop him before he did himself serious damage. He also admitted that it's possible that he fluffed his usually perfect 3A because he'd been practising the 4A,....that and the fact that he was totally drained after the 5 quads.
3. As for the comment about having 2 olympic gold medals that some people have mentioned....the background to that is that he has always been clear to the media that getting 2 olympic golds was his dream. After he achieved it, he said himself that he would have to rethink his goals.....he says that he has now found it. He wants to be number 1 again. I don't think it was arrogance. I think he was just trying to steer people away from his past achievements and towards his present level and goal. His English is still not that great so he doesn't really express himself that well....it's a huge contrast to how he speaks in Japanese because in his own language, he is seriously well-spoken and thinks about every single word that comes out of his mouth and the impact that it will have lol.
4. Finally, it's true that he was totally hamming it up for the audience at the end of his performance.....but considering that a huge percentage of the audience is Japanese, I think that it's kind of expected. He said in his interview that he was proud of himself for doing the 5 quads and successfully bringing the Lutz back into competition..and for fighting for the best result. He's still pretty pissed that he didn't win though lol.
So, those are my observations. For the record, I also loved Nathan's routine this year and he thoroughly deserved the win. He was a truly gracious winner. As for the coaching situation, it hadn't crossed my mind that there might be trouble with Brian and the choice of coaches so I was really interested by your ideas on that. I'll look forward to seeing what happens and hearing your take on things. Sorry for the long comment!
This is awesome, thank you for giving us an insider understanding of what Yuzu is saying in Japanese. Your explanation did help us comprehend what happened this weekend with Yuzu. Thank you very much!
Exactly. Yuzu is more rational AND emotional than most people out there. And he always does everything for a reason. I just hope that he can adjust accordingly after this GPF. As he said, it was a very fruitful competition in many ways.
well said. true.
Guys, I really love listening to you but I realized something today, you have such a deep view of figure skating that goes so far back and see this new "age" of skating as a different sport. But, as a recent fan who got drawn in at the '18 Olympics, this new era is normal and thrilling and there's so much to love. I do look back at videos that Dave posts and search individual skaters to see their past performances but it seems almost strange to me...and I'm 64 and have watched figure skating off and on for years! Really neat to compare one's perspective with others!
Nathan is technically better than Yuzuru. No disrespect to Yuzuru, but when Nathan skates lights out like he did this past weekend at the Final, it's really hard to beat him. And Nathan deserves those high GOEs. He didn't make any mistakes. Hanyu did.
@mish098aimer no they weren't. Especially if you take into consideration that Nathan's FS was technically harder & Nathan skated lights out.
I'm not sure that's what GOE really is or is intended to be. You could skate with no mistakes but still not get great goe, for instance. For the record, I think he did deserve high goe for this performance, though I personally just can't give him 5s when memories of Fernandez's perfect quads still exist in my mind, lol. It's true that Chen doesn't get a good running edge out of his quads, so I couldn't always give him the takeoff/landing bullet required for positive goe over +3. Not negative, mind you - just neutral, and he has to have those first three bullets or it can't go over +3, those are the rules. So, 1.height and distance? Check. Absolutely 100% 2. Effortless throughout. Honestly? Debatable. He frequently muscles his way out of his landings because he lacks momentum and has to crank out into his transitions. (We see Eteri's girls do the same thing a lot.) 3. Good takeoff and landing: same. Can you call it a good landing when he's landing straight on top pf his blade like that with no running edge? It's not bad, it's not negative, but is it really positive? Because of this, on quite a few of his jumps I would hesitate to award higher than +3, based on the rules. His flawless air position can't be counted without those first three bullets, nor can his steps into the jump, or being right on the music. I feel like a lot of people don't know this about GOE rules, so, sorry if I'm saying something you already know.
Never clicked so fast!!! Was literally checking all the time ever since you posted on Twitter that you’re uploading it!
Olga Ivanova enjoy!
I thought Yuzaru was gravitating towards Ghislain because he looks like a real life Winnie the Pooh . 🐻
Alexandra Sydlar oh no now I’m going to see him as Pooh always lmao
MelancholyRoses Look up the backstage moment where Yuzuru pats Ghislain’s tummy. You’ll only see Pooh from that point on. 😂🐻🍯
That must be the reason 😜
omg. the great revelation
Yuzuru Hanyu said in one interview that since there was a 12 points gap between him and Nathan, he knew it would be very difficult to win even doing 5 quads in the FP, so he wanted to try the 4axel. It was an important competition for him because of the GPF was held in the 2006 Olympic games arena, he was without a coach to stop him, he wanted to use the energy of all that it was happening to push harder the 4axel practice. He wanted to accomplish something, even with the risk of injury. And about the coach situation, everybody who follows closely Yuzuru Hanyu knows very well he is closer to Ghislain Briand, I see Yuzuru and Ghislain Briand joking around often, they seem to have a very close relationship. Even for gala practices who is with Yuzuru is always Ghislain Briand. I heard he helps Yuzuru with jumps, and it is what Yuzuru most needs to evolve at this point, I think. I remember in one interview, a couple of months after the Olympics, Brian Orser said that he had a talk with Yuzuru to know how he should help him from now on, it must be hard for Brian Orser to coach a two-times Olympic champion. Maybe Ghislain Briand can help more Yuzuru at this point. But I don´t believe he will leave TCC since Yuzuru said he likes practicing with elite skaters, it motivates him.
While I think Ghislain can help him on the technical, Brian still knows Yuzu very well personality wise and has been able to help him psychologically. Brian helped him get is head in the right space during 2017 Worlds to come back and skate the free skate he did. Yuzu has zero chill and I think Brian is able to help him reign it in when it matters. Though Yuzu managed very well in the free despite the popped axel considering it was his first time going for this layout and he'd only even practiced a 5 quad layout once. He probably still sees it as progress.
@mish098aimer He said it was because of that and because he was absolutely exhausted.
Actually, regarding Hanyu's quad axel attempts there was an interview last night with Japanese media, and according to it, after the short program, he knew he was not going to win this time so he just wanted to accomplish something else at least, rather than just lose there. And there wasn't a coach to stop him as we all know, so he thought maybe that was the moment for him to try the axel even though he KNEW it might have caused serious injuries or lost his stamina for the next day's competition. He said he was really frustrated after his short, and it seems that it's just his own way to deal with frustration. He surely does want to win every competition, we all know that he's really intense and competitive, but after gaining the title of two-time olympic champion, there must be more than just 'winning.' Maybe it's a two-time-olympic- champion-and-still-remaining-as- a-competitor-after-that thing. Most of us could hardly understand how he feels because he's the only skater who is doing such a thing.
There's another point that with his capability (like the sophistication and refinement talked in this recap) and all that he has accomplished, he now is on a way that no one else can get even closer to him at least in the next couple of years. I mean, at least, we should appreciate his presence in the competitions and more ambitious goals still to achieve.
@@wyllizi Clearly everyone appreciated Yuzuru's presence. Yuzuru's last surgery was very complicated. He needs to think about fighting another day.
@@bonnie9131 I totally agree with you, and he has to think about his every practice session carefully in the future. What he wants to achieve right now is even harder, he gotta control himself no matter what. As he said in the interview, he likes rivalry and competitions. I believe it really is the time for him to plan carefully to gain the balance.
lf l was Hanyu, i say good by to lsu. it's not worth fighting.
@mish098aimer yes you are totally right, Japan does not care for him, I think Yuzu has realized with his GOE and PCS si obviously watered down, that he cannot beat politics, even if he can beat any and I repeat any skater in the current field
Nathan is the real thing!
He really is!
Ice Dance
44:15 - 50:15 Hubbell/Donahue
50:15 - 59:00 Judge politics and Marie-France
59:00 - 1:08:20 Various topics
1:08:20 Switch to Pairs discussion
I actually think it’s so great for Nathan that he can do his skating and college because he’s spending a good chunk of time outside the world of skating and all the (sometimes toxic lol) fandoms. Tbh I could imagine his Yale peers having intense focus on grades/recruiting and maybe that potential influence to divide his attention/where the pressure is, is a good thing? Happy to see the two top guys having what looks to be a healthy friendship though
yuzu psychos says that he doesnt really study....
Marika fasola ? that nathan does not study?
@@happyapplebunny yeah, thay yale college let rich or succesful in sports kids not study , they mean that nathan is not really a student..
@@marikafasola8771 These 'fans' obviously are Nathan haters but you're the same as them. I saw your rude and hateful comments under Yuzuru's videos:)
@@cede2412 lol psycho hanyu fan !! my hateful comments concerned his skating , asthma and his fans, so explain yourself fo ryou hate is explaining that he doesnt do flip in 4t3f combo lol grow up.. i am sick of hanyus so called " greatness" , he is not genius skater and i am entitled to my opinion!
Dave's drink of water during the Papadakis Cizeron discussion was gold.
goldburnm 😘😘
yuzu's quad loop and lutz were stunning
Ann Fotlyan 💯
Dave, do you think you would consider doing a judging video where you personally score Nathan and Yuzu's FPs? Maybe in the lag time between Nationals and Worlds? I kind of understand the anger behind the Fanyu vandal when someone gives that 4Lz a "1". Also, do you think the ISU just always wants to reward a more obviously heterosexual style? Does Yuzu need to wear a vest or cardigan?
I know Nathan just wants to be comfortable but that shirt riding up his stomach during spins can't feel good. I think I like his mom's handiwork better after all. Who knew it could get worse? @@TheSkatingLesson
Oni Giri it is hard because NBC will flag and take down everything.
Oni Giri they love to watch this channel. I will have to figure out a creative way to do it.
@@TheSkatingLesson That would be amazing. NBC is such a downer. My life has changed since I figured out how to use a VPN. I'm Dutch now!
There was an interview with Brian where he said Yuzu was wild when he first started training with him, he had to reign him in and keep him in check. I feel like we definitely saw Yuzu a bit unchecked in this competition, for better or for worse. After all, this is a boy who said his skates are more important than his life. I think the fandom to a degree fules his ambitions. As the interviews stated... He considered jumping 4A after the short program knowing if the coaches were there they would've stopped him. He said he apologized to himself while making the attempts understanding full well it might've caused him injuries. I have a love and hate relationship with this part of personality. I think we also need to understand Yuzu is deeply emotional, he said he listens to sad songs to cry before a competition just so he can reset his emotions, that really goes to tell you how intense he is internally. I think competition is one place where he can unleash those intimate parts of him. I hope again and again luck is on his side, so even when he's making these wild choices he will be spared from injuries detrimental to his career.
This is all so shallow. They spend nine whole minutes fretting over why and how Hanyu lost, and all of two minutes criticizing Nathan's shirt. Okay guys, we get that you REALLY, REALLY prefer Hanyu and were (unlike most everyone else that isn't Japanese) shocked that Nathan blew Hanyu away by a gigantic 44 point margin. The least you could do is talk about the actual skating performances, in both of which Nathan was flawless. It's like giving Nathan a well-deserved compliment would absolutely kill you. As I said in another comment under a TSL video, if the worst you can say about Nathan is to make petty comments about his shirts, then he's doing everything right.
Unfortunately for you the second largest fans of Hanyu are probably Russians. Japan and Russia are the HOME of figure skating!
@@Trenton.D How is this even relevant to what I posted? I wasn't even talking about Russia, Japan as a whole, or where the "home" of figure skating is supposed to be.
Haha...I feel that all the opinions are personal and subjective anyways. We agree to disagree with other figure skating fans. I was trying to say something but decided to check out comments first. I'm glad you could articulate how people favored Hanyu to win couldn't comprehend why Hanyu lost to Nathan. For me as someone watching the clip of 2019 GPF last year without any preference of the winner in mind, it's so obvious who deserved the gold medal. Isn't skating a clean routine the basic to a top notch performance? But Hanyu hasn't been very consistent in his games throughout his career even his 2014 and 2018 Olympics LPs were sloppy. I just have issue with his inconsistency and can't get over it.
From the get-go when I started to follow figure skating again last year, I did check ALMOST ALL the videos of Hanyu available on youtube out of curiosity, thanks to his fanatic fans. Lol...But I just can't force myself to appreciate his styles. Hanyu doesn't have many CLEAN routines in his record so far and I think clean skating is the BASIC! Besides, Hanyu doesn't have the elegance and the grace of Patrick Chan, nor does he own chic artistry as Nathan. His carriage always got me frown upon, not supposedly balletic or elegant even his music is more classical than modern. I wish Hanyu could control his arm and upper body movement in a more graceful way. The major issue I have with Hanyu's skating is his music interpretation! I'm a music person and unfortunately don't find Hanyu able to skate in sync with the music he selected most of the time. Perhaps he doesn't have very good choreographers.
Not sure how people define skating skills. But personally, I consider carriage and limb/body movement a part of figure skating skills in addition to footwork. Hanyu is more lacking in this aspect compared to Nathan who's got very solid training in classic ballet and has very good posture when dancing to the music.
@@censoredyoutube4902 You're spot on about Hanyu's body line. His whole upper body is sort of slouchy, and he leaves his arms hang like wet noodles at his sides much of the time. There's no energy in his body. His limbs are never taught, and his gestures aren't literal and strong. It lends itself to him looking sloppy. I've always felt that, too. With Nathan, you can clearly see that his entire body is energized and engaged. Uno is like that too, but not Hanyu. The way he holds his body is always so slack and casual it looks lazy. Yet, he always gets high PCS marks for his "artistry" and expression.
You are correct. Hanyu doesn't skate clean. Even Tara said in the NBC commentary of his '21 Worlds LP that he hasn't skated two clean programs back-to-back with all positive GOE since 2015. As you pointed out, even his Olympic programs aren't that great with the exception of his 2014 SP, but in the LP he fell twice with other wobbly landings and still won. He's said himself that he's not proud of his Olympic performances, including 2018, which also weren't clean.
The truth is that if Hanyu hadn't won two VERY lucky Olympic gold medals, people wouldn't be talking about him much at all. When you look at his entire competitive record outside of those two medals, it's not that impressive, and there are skaters who have accomplished as much in less time and even more than Hanyu, even without two Olympic gold medals. Yagudin's and Plushenko's records crush Hanyu, yet they have only one Olympic gold each. Nathan has accomplished nearly as many gold medals in five short years (16) that it took Hanyu over a decade to earn (17). That means Nathan is the more winning skater and the better athlete.
People are shocked when they hear that Hanyu never won both his Grand Prix competitions in a single season until just last year. Yet, he's suppose to be "the greatest"? Hanyu is like a dead celebrity. After they're gone, we romanticize them and say how incredible their performances were. Then one day, we go back and actually watch them and realize they weren't nearly as good as we remembered them to be.
@@L1623VP As I started to pick up more and more performances of some of the most decorated figure skaters I'd missed since 1990s, I'm more confirmed about what the dubious claim by crazy Fanyus that he's a legend and GOAT. GOAT my ass!!!!!!! Figure skaters like Alexi Yagudin and Patrick Chan obviously had more theatrically appealing elements in their program components than Hanyu in general. And they executed these artistic components in more graceful ways than Hanyu. Again, as I said, it's mainly the carriage issue and music interpretation. Comparing all the performances in their games during their pinnacle, Hanyu isn't comparable to these iconic figure skaters at all. Chan skated brilliant LPs from 2010-2012 with clean routines and very nicely executed quads. Hanyu's most boasted program component isn't even on the same scale as Chan's. Talking about techniques alone, Hanyu is far subpar to Nathan. Not to mention Nathan has his own unique chic style. Therefore, Hanyu's fame was all hyped up by those crazy fanyus and I think two Olympics gold by luck facilitated the hype to a great extent. Hanyu is overrated imho. I wasn't sure to say so months ago. But after watching more routines from other stellar skaters in the past, I'm confident of my judgement. He is not a legend and the spotlight he's always enjoyed will be quickly dim.
If you have a way, please ask Nathen's team to find a better custume designer!!!
Nathan costume is fine and comfortable, fits him perfectly
Nathan hates those tight fitting costumes. He wants to feel comfortable on the ice so going back to those tight costumes is no longer acceptable for him.
Jose Hill - And he’s not a glitter and glitz kind of guy!!!!
I’m pretty sure I read somewhere that he said his mom made these shirts not Vera. Guess he generally prefers a baggier fit. He should just use more spandex in the fabric and get a tighter fit.
Warmed up some cookies, candles lit, wine in hand- I am ready for my personal gala!
TheSaintbx ❤️❤️❤️
I don't think Alena has insentive to change her flip technique. It gets amazing heigh and GOE. Some of the best jumpers (i.e. Ito) have had leg wraps, so it doesn't seem like something to change.
So I am a Hanyu fan and tbh the past few days were pretty emotional for me as I get absorbed in every single movement and expression of him. So just want to thank you guys for putting things in perspective. To me he was such a fighter during that free skate and watching him like that makes me very very emotional in both good and bad ways. But tbh this GPF was a mess (from no coach to the 4A to the YOLOed free skate and everything). Of course he does everything for a reason which he actually explained thoroughly of every single thing he did (the 4A, the 5 quads FS, how no coach affects him and everything else) and he knows what he is doing. He is definitely not in his best condition for this GPF and I'm sure he knows this. I just hope that he can adjust accordingly (with the help of whoever) and continue to be this hungry
Do you think his fans would rather he keep going even if he consistently loses to Nathan (and try for another Olympic medal), or are they ok if he retires at the end of this year?
@@kristenjunker1632 Honestly he knows what he wants and if he is willing to go for 2022, as fans we will support him all the way. But he has said before that he will retire when he is not able to compete at the highest technical ability or something along those lines. I don't think 2022 is in his picture right now but I highly doubt that he will retire by the end of this season.
@@kristenjunker1632 I don't think he'll be willing to retire before securing the first 4A in international competition, unless injury forces him out. Then if and when he does it, he's going to want to secure the first Olympic 4A even if he can't win gold against Chen. This is speculation but his personality is pretty predictable in this regard, isn't it?
As long as he is competing, many people will be happy see him. He is just like Roger Federer, if he thinks he has a chance to win, he will compete.
Nathan will never go back to those tight outfits. They will be loose fitting as they are more comfortable for him to perform in.
Women's figure skating is sad now ☹️ women's skating isn't women's skating if only 15/16 year olds can do it. In this era, Carolina Kostner wouldn't even have a chance. How sad is that?
It must be extremely hard for Alina to find motivation to practice at home because her skating rink back in Russia is basically an Olympic training ground. When you've already won the Olympics and everything else possible it's hard to skate alongside these medal hungry girls who dream only of going to the Olympics. And skating with coaches who have the new philosophy that you need to train a quad if you want to be successful. How can you go to practice every day when you know you won't win another Worlds or Olympics and your coach only cares about training skaters to be potential Olympic medalists.
Zita Balogh she was happy in short seen her face there? Her face changed after the fall she was devasteted
@@atiz4073 That was a stupid post. Quite embarrassing really.
@@Sennagod Wow how dare they post their opinion on a PUBLIC comment section. Truly the work of the devil having an opinion. The utter disgust.
How can you call yourself an Alina fans when you're completely chill with the fact she is clearly suffering? Her skating and her jumps worse of all are dipping in quality and its clearly affecting her confidence. How can somebody skate for joy when they are falling apart? Looking at her face after the FS and during her speech at Gala when she announced she couldnt skate at the Gala, it was heartbreaking.
You cant skate for the joy of it when you quite literally cant skate due health, injury, emotional or mental reasons. Alina is clearly having more fun at that Sleeping Beauty ice show she is a part of than competing.
I’m SO happy for Chock and Bates! They rose to the occasion and really earned it
Yess .... je trouve qu'ils ont fait un choix de danse intelligent. Et ils sont beaux !!
Yuzu said he popped that 3A because he was practicing 4A, and that messed it up. He also said he ran through the entire program with 4Lz only ONCE.
I think the mistake he made in the short, regardless of the coach situation - was completely unexpected from everyone including himself and his team. The point gap between him and Nathan after the short lit a fire under his ass, and it led to him meaninglessly practicing 4A, and adding 4Lz into the program.
The key takeaway from this event should be that Yuzu being perfect with his toeloops and salchows as usual just isn’t enough anymore with the amount of GOEs and PCS that Nathan gets now.
Yuzu HATES losing. That’s what drives him, and that’s why he’s the best male figure skater of all time. I think this event further solidified that Yuzu is the one challenging Nathan now, not the other way around. That might work in his favor. Just remember the way Patrick Chan pushed him to become better and better.
Neither Trusova nor Yuzu can do a six quad program without all of the quads (excluding axel). You can only repeat one quad maximum. So you can’t do two quad lutzes and two quad flips/loops. For example Chen said that now to do a six quad program he would have to bring the loop back.
Hanyu still suffers from asthma, but he's 2 time Olympic champ and very matured. actually when you hear him Japanese he is always very determined. he knows about skating and competitions better than anyone else. he said his ultimate aim is winning 9 year old boy himself who never stops challenging and that's why he wanted to try 4A. never under estimate Mr. Hanyu.
David's face at 31:15 in reaction to Jonathan's 'yes' to glittery snakes on a costume. Fantastic! That expression said it all.😂 and as a lamb, I will just say this:JUSTICE FOR GLITTER!
This Grand Prix final in both Junior and Seniors showed how exciting the ladies field is, and how the men's fields are kind of a mess. I'm loving seeing the depth of talent in the ladies fields. Guys, get it together (except for Hanyu and Nathan of course)
Aymoz wasn't a mess he fell on a quad attempt,otherwise he skated pretty much to his capacity which ain't bad.
I want to see Shoma, Kolyada and Boyang up and running.
I read that they made the decision for Ghislain to go with Yuzuru, it wasn't a choice because Katerina is preparing for Polish nationals and so are the other skaters, Evgenia and Jason. That makes more sense since Brian is the head coach and has a lot more skater than just Yuzuru. I think there is drama but not with Ghislain going to the GPF instead of Brian.
I really appreciated this video that gives me more perspective about Yuzu’s skating also about Nathan’s skating. I think Nathan is a great skater and Yuzu truly respect him. The reason I like Yuzu is never because he is a champion, I like him because of his personality and artistry. I know he will be replaced by new and stronger skater in the future, but I also know he will give all to fight before it happens. And this is the spirit we cherish.
"It was a bit of a carrot cake"
Iconic.
Cornelian ❤️
That was everything!
When Jonathan tried to get away with the time change excuse and Dave wasn't having it? LOL. TSL, you're the best.
goldburnm 😘😘
I think Yuzuru's presentation is over-rated. I REALLY noticed the floppy arms in this free skate. It's one thing to be relaxed, but it almost looks like he doesn't care. On the quad axel, I think he had absolutely no plan to include the 4A in the program. With the return of the 4Lz, doing the 4A in practice might really shake Nathan. I think his only chance to beat Nathan (in this particular scenario) would have been for Nathan to crack. It's like Zagitova doing 3Lz-3Lo-3Lo-3Lo-3Lo-3Lo-3Lo in the Olympic practice sessions. It serves no purpose but to psych out other competitors.
@Squirrel One word describes why Yuzuru jumped the 4A in practice: hubris. Usually man's downfall.
Squirrel Hubris is excessive pride or self-confidence and that’s what he exhibited. Pride is different from arrogance. As the interview stated he wanted to leave a mark. That is pride talking. And it’s the excessive self-confidence that made him jump the 4A in a practice session - so risky and unnecessary since he’s never even landed it. Ergo, hubris.
I think having no coach during the competition did affect him in some way. He said in a interview that he thought of why his coaches couldn't be with him.
I agree with you that Yuzu used to be overscored at certain points, and now they are overscoring Nathan/underscoring Yuzu. I understand this is skating politics to create super stars, attract media, fans and of course to gain profits. But
But I want to say even this is the fact in figure skating now, it doesn’t mean is right. It might be a ideal thinking, but people including judges, community, media and fans should try as much as they can to reach the fair judgement. Yes it sounds like an unreachable goal but at least we should work towards this direction, not just saying it happens, accept it and do nothing about it. Cuz it will harm this beautiful sport eventually and all skaters they truly deserve this.
Lastly, I remember when Javi retires he said: “Throughout my career I’ve been mad when the judges put me first after a bad skate. But I’m mad also when I skate well and get penalized. Judges have the slow motion and they can check”
It breaks my heart. This is the reason why we should change the sports. I hope less and less great skaters feel the same way and leave the sports with this kind of regrets and sadness.
@DOMINICK THORP Not sure if I'll get this right. It's understandable to give negative GOEs to popped jumps but to give as low as -5 for successful jumps (not cleanly landed but did not fall) is atrocious. Yuzu messed up on landing the jumps but the usual transitions and difficult entries to jumps were still there. Thus, -1 to -3 GOE at most should've been enough. He still wouldn't win but he should've gotten a higher score. There's more according to some but I am not knowledgeable to discuss them.
The thing about Yuzu's over scoring is that while he was overscored he was also underscored at the same time (and more often than not it was also the fact that other skaters aren't penalized for some stuff like using the full Blade instead of the toe pick where Yuzu and only a few others actually do the correct jumps which... OK but then skaters like Yuzu or Boyiang should get bonuses for doing it well).... So they usually balanced each other and while he could overall be overscored sometimes, the gap between his score and the one he should have gotten wasn't that big (and there were performances where he was just plain underscored).
The problem here is that the gap between Nathan's score and the one he deserved is way too big. Like he totally deserved the win, that's a no brainer but that scores way too much (and then you can add Yuzu's slight underscoring, but tbh it's not even a matter of comparing the two)
@@pennyinheaven Obviously not, the one and only difficult transition in his free skate was counter into the popped axel.
Everyone knows Yuzuru is a Master of our times. The Wall Street Journal said that he is the greatest skater that ever lived. That said, it seems that all the swooning is a little over the top and patronizing to Yuzuru. As much as he loves his fans I think it is a little cringey. It is like the figure skating world is more concerned about soothing his feelings than focusing on the person who actually won the GPF. Ah what his name? Oh yeah, Nathan Chen, who deferred to Yuzuru at the press conference. He said Yuzuru is an idol of his and that every time Yuzuru steps on the ice something miraculous happens. What should have been Nathans moment was all about Yuzuru's disappointment., FOR DAYS on end. Don't you think that Yuzuru feels uncomfortable about that? Give the man some dignity.
I think it's inevitable when a person commands that much attention. I don't think Nathan is offended by that, I think he's above feeling small because of it. He's doing his own thing, skating great and being rewarded for it. And he has his appreciators too, it's just pointless to compare size wise because Yuzuru is a point out of the curve.
@@squirrelsanity Absolutely, Natan has too much class to be petty. Looking at a X and Y graph I can't place Nathan on the curve either. The fans should do what Nathan and Yuzuru and do: Admire what is wonderful in the other and love the sport.
@chima chibi Those people throwing the Pooh Bears are filling those arenas; they are paying through the nose for their fun.
@chima chibi i mean they can't throw the rolex watches to the ice lol. Flowers and stuffed animals are the standard stuff to throw, everyone gets those, males and females. But Yuzuru has such a huge fanbase that his happens.
And he donates them all to local hospitals and orphanages so at least they go to a good place :)
@chima chibi Nathan's coach asked extra preparation time, since then the next skater is allowed to use much longer time. toys go kids hospitals so better than flowers. but yes, if you don't like them, it should be no flowers no toys , no cheers, the same color costumes, no music. they should compete with jumps and technique. it's much fair.
My fight is delayed im literally in the airport laying on the carpet at almost 4 am watching your video haha
Travel is Life safe travels
nathans costumes screamed lazy to me, and his psc and goe's were so overscored it was just funny to the point of not even taking it serious.... the point difference was huge; i know yuzu had mistakes but he masters every aspect of skating..... you all can argue that nathan has great skating skills, but he's still not even in the same category.....
I’m ready. Been waiting all day for this
Yuzu's quad axel attempts were just insane. He seems obsessed with being superior at every tiny thing. While it's admirable, he will end up breaking himself in half over it. Winning a jumping battle in a practice session is not as important as the big picture of 2022.
I don't think he cares for 2022 as much. It wasn't in his original plan but he was still too hungry to just quit after Pyeongchang. He said his main goal is the 4A and until them at the same time staying competitive for a gold and skating well, not letting his skating quality go out of the window and even try to improve it, making those damn tributes he cares about etc. (basically not making a fool of himself on the ice while at the same time he's off ice talking about a 4A). He wanted to do it since he was a kid and is obsessed with it. He'll either land the 4A then retire before 2022 or end up going to Beijing because he didn't land it yet. Or break himself in half, not do it at all and retire.
It was reckless and pointless, debuting his 4A in its current state. UR, not close to being landed. For someone who is a “showman”, the unveiling of 4A felt anticlimactic.
@@bakedpotato6653 His coaches weren't there! In that way, he reminds me of a teenager with the parents gone for the weekend and the house to himself. In the same sense that every writers needs an editor, every skater needs a coach.
@@bakedpotato6653 I was in the practice session and it was the opposite of anticlimatic. I also thought it was reckless but I felt was Yuzu wanted to achieve there and I applaud him for that. Those jumps were astonishing!
@@bakedpotato6653 I wouldn't consider it the unveiling anyway. He went for it after the Olympics gala as well, iirc, just for kicks.
Although our wonderful TSL guys don't (and probably won't) get it: yes, they do fire people in Russia too, but they don't fire *friends/family*. The only scenario where Daniil is out of the team is if HE decides to leave.
I’m still traumatized by “Big Spender.”
Kelly Heafy Mullen i dont think russians listen to the music the way english speaking people do, but more to the rhythm
ReginaFarfalla No excuse.
@@ReginaFarfalla they're giving these programs for international competitions, so the meaning of the words /movie... Should be taken into account regardless of whether the skater understands the lyrics or not.
@@cyrielle_ that's why they opted for an instrumental version. No words and so only the music matters. Besides, not only English speaking people watch figure skating. Imagine an Asian skater choose a Japanese or Korean soundtrack. You would not have a clue what is it about.
TRAUMATIZED!
Apropos of that, I recently rewatch Kaetlyn Osmond’s no-lyrics Big Spender SP... It is *brilliant*. Lance Vippon (?) did such a masterful job incorporating the Fosse choreography
personally, daria was the only junior lady that truly filled the rink with her presence for the free program even with the mistakes
I recently watched a short documentary on Yuzu about the 2016-2017 season when he was really focused on quad jumps (I think it was a quad loop but I'm not sure). The general thing was he was losing PC scores because he was messing his jumps and forgetting about skating skills and in there Brian referred to him as "a child with a new toy" and wanted him to first train his skating skills to have a great foundation to do those amazing jumps as well. In the end, they had the talk and Yuzu listened to Brian and during practices, he didn't do many jumps bu more of the skating itself. So I think that's the kind of moment again where he wants to win so bad and it starts to get chaotic so if Yuzu gets a solid plan working forward I believe WC could be amazing. (sorry if I said something wrong I'm kind of a new fan of the sport so don't know much yet 😁)
Can you send me the link of the documentary? I'd be interested to see it
@@alexandra926 It's this one "spirit of athlete" on available on UA-cam in 5 parts: ua-cam.com/video/BeoGkbJ7kUw/v-deo.html
I do like Nathans shrirts!! He doesn’t need any shiny stones!
I also just wanna say it was absofuckinglutely bittersweet watching Marie France's teams go 1-2-3 in the same Olympic venue where 13 years ago, she and Patch were injured and forced to withdraw. My moment of the week!!
Alysa Liu still skates very "childish", and this isn't to knock her, she is 13 after all! But yes, her lack of skating skills really showed here against the other skaters. Her slowness and lack of flow out of jumps especially really detracts from her technical content. All of the other skaters presented much more sophisticated, elegant, and mature. Alysa does have an inherent star quality, so I hope they get it together and get her some solid skating skill training.
She's 14. And I don't think junior skaters, some only 13, can be described as sophisticated, elegant and mature. After her short program, everyone was high on her. No mention of speed or skating skills. It only became an issue because she made mistakes in the long. Her mistakes on her elements are what cost her the gold, not her speed or flow.
@@skatefan9495 she was actually scored lowest in skating skills in the short
@@skatefan9495 and yes, my mistake she is 14
@@grisgris6908 That proves my point. She was first based on her elements.
@@skatefan9495 I think we have the same point? Without her tech content, she wouldn't be top three. The rest of the field are much more well rounded skaters. It's the same with Trusova-if she doesn't hit her tech content, she doesn't have the skating skills, musicality, spins, etc to win. My point is they need to "round out" Alysa as a skater, she has the potential but isn't fully developed yet.
Please let's not call Alyssa's "quad" a quad...it's very underroated and it's not a quad
Ann Fotlyan it’s not worse than the other ladies doing pre rotated quads and she has landed it clean before.
I did see a quote translation today that yuzuru said he tried the 4A because Ghislain wasn't there to tell him no.
equinesmw ,,,does he have no common sense?
@@garysimmons1485 This is the same skater that competed with a towel on his head at COC when he should have been pulled from the event after his collision with Yan Han. He fell 5 times and risked a more serious injury skating injured like that and Orser neglected his responsibility by not having him withdraw. There comes a time when the coach has to think about the well being of his skater and pull rank and not let him skate regardless if Hanyu wanted to skate or not. At 19 guys think they are invincible and are not always in their right mind and that's when the coach has to step in..
Ghislain does work with Evgenia. He was in the K&C with her at SCI
Hi. I have really come to enjoy your episodes recently.
As you say, I think Yuzuru will be able to win over Nathan again now that his 4Lz is back, but that is ONLY IF he is judged FAIRLY. Looking at the SP protocols, I was shocked to see that as many as THREE judges gave him only +4 for his 3A and SIX judges gave him only +4 for his 4S, when they clearly deserved +5. I was even more shocked to see that Nathan’s 4S in his LP got the EXACT SAME GOE as Yuzuru’s 4S in his SP and two judges gave Nathan’s 3A in his LP +5s. That says a lot about the quality of judging in this event. In almost all elements I felt that Yuzuru was underscored and Nathan was overscored, and in the end the little differences amounted to a lot.
Looking at the SP scores for the two this season, Yuzuru skated a nearly perfect SP at NHK and only got 109. Nathan skated a nearly perfect SP at GPF and got 110. Comparing the details of the two programs, this was infuriating. The judge panel being different shouldn’t be an excuse. Jackie Wong pointed out that Yuzuru’s weakness is in that he goes for 100% when only 99% is enough. Well, I don’t blame him, he needs it to get the points he deserves. Seeing the dubious underrotation calls for Yuzuru at ACI and the judging here, the ISU’s (or USFS’s?) intention of boosting Nathan while holding down Yuzuru has become too obvious and it’s gone too far.
Nathan has improved greatly since Pyeongchang. At Worlds 2019 and here, he won safely and would have done so without any help from the judges. Yuzuru and Nathan have such a wonderful rivalry, I just wish the judges would let the two skaters battle it out fair and square every time. It would make it much more exciting and will allow skating fans, including Hanyu fans, to enjoy Nathan’s talent and abilities much much more.
BV and judging aside, It seems that one big weakness Hanyu has vs. Nathan is that he doesn’t compete well against him. Hanyu’s best competition this season was at SCI, against no one who could challenge him.
In comparison, competing against Hanyu seems to bring out the best in Nathan. Two clean competitions in a row against Hanyu, with this many quads, something like this has never been done before.
@@bakedpotato6653 It was the first time in two years that Yuzuru was competing against Nathan in a healthy and well-trained condition. I think he was confident about winning this time until he saw the 110 points given to Nathan. That's probably when some doubts crept in. It's easier to compete when you know the judges are on your side, whereas for Yuzuru, it's as if his biggest competition is always the judging panel. What made it worse was that he had no coach there to comfort him.
@mish098aimer I totally agree. Up until this GPF, I had some hope (maybe 10%) that I could see him at Beijing. But after seeing the judging here, I don't think he will make it through mentally. What a shame, because I believe winning a 3rd Olympic gold is physically possible.
@mish098aimer My heart breaks for him because all judges need to do is give Yuzuru's 4A +4s and give Nathan's 4Lz +5s to nullify Yuzuru's efforts. I guess this intention has always been apparent in the ridiculously low BV of4A.
@@akblades6338 had yuzu skated his sp clean it would've been a world record, judges gave yuzu very high goes for his first 2 jumping passes they were generous so dont make it seem as if the judges r not yuzu's side or bs like that, U nail the perfomance and judges give u the rewards.
Yuzu's problem is he knows deep down he is no match for Nathan's incredible abilities and strength and its playing on his mind, if competing against any other yuzu might still win with few mistakes here and there but with nathan he cant afford ANY mistakes and its pressuring him.
I have lost so much weight thanks to you two -- everytime anything figure skating related is on I save it to do Insanity to, and your videos are so long that you're unintentionally causing me to rapidly shed the pounds (the people in the flat underneath mine hate you)
You're welcome!
i'm working on timestamps
THANK YOU
Thank you so much!
You are an angel, thank you so much
Thank you Claudia!
To Jonathan's point about KMT: I've been watching her in the K&C and she's been constantly working so hard to manage Michael's emotional states, for years now. So, to see her this week finally stop doing that was a good thing. I may have shouted, "About time!" at my screen.
Are they a couple? I got the impression from her IG they are? Nothing else explains this pairing to me. She could've had ANY male skater in Canada. But she has to dim her light to match Michael. Which makes them boring, which she never was before! She's a sparkling star, not these droning programs!
TB I thought she was dating Liam Firus?
@@drea09a I've got no idea.
Maria Kazakova and Georgy Reviya are 18 and 20 years old. The max age for Jr men is 21. They skated two fantastic programs to win the final. They were 6th at last year's final behind both the American and Russian teams they beat here. It's exciting how much they've improved over the last year. I'm a big fan of their skating.
I totally agree. I've been a fan of theirs since the last JFP finals. Jonathan was being a bit catty when he suggested they were too old to be competing for a junior title. In fact, it turned out to be a smart decision for them since now they have an unexpected JGP title to their name.
Thank you Dave for your honest opinion on Allysa Lu. This GPF is the first time I watched Allysa Lu skate even though I knew she did win the US National Champs last season. I watched her programs here at the GPF just to see what the hype was all about. I was quite shocked at her skating skills compared to Daria and Kamilla's. In the SP, Allysa was awarded the same PCs as the other 2 girls which I thought was hughly inflated. In the FS again, she was given 60 which is still way overscored. Even her so called quads and Axels weren't that great either, they were squeaked in and tightly landed.
Nathan has matured not just as akater so his decision making is more informed. Yazuru has a lot of catching up to do in this regard
Indeed Nathan will benefit from listening he is so secure in his performances simply outstanding
I would like to give some of my thoughts on Yuzuru vs. Nathan. I don’t agree with people saying Yuzuru was underscored in PCS. More than ever before I saw him struggling physically and stamina was very low in the second half of the program - his skating was more than ever tired, slow and transitions and moves not that precise. No wonder, he just landed 5 (!) quads. We all know PCS goes down with mistakes so clean Nathan was able to pass Yuzuru (on this occasion!) rightfully. I believe Yuzu is still a class above Nathan in all PCS sections but not on that night I’m afraid. That being said I honestly don’t understand Yuzu’s GOEs on some of the jumps. Notably 4lo and 4lz. That lutz was +5 quality and I believe loop too. There was a judge who gave Yuzu +1 on that Lutz, I mean, seriously?! I am really the last one to call out underscoring but this put me off. Obviously in comparison to Nathan, Yuzu lost around 4 points on his 4T + eu + 3F and around 17 on 3A seq 3A. Did I miss something? Maybe. So around 21 points which would put him 121 in TES and, if skated clean, would raise his PCS to around 95/96. Which would still score significantly lower than Nathan.
Here is my question. Is Yuzuru’s reign over? I honestly don’t know. This is the first time that I am afraid it might be true. And to be honest, I don’t understand it. I still think Yuzuru is a better skater than Nathan, definitely in PCS and in terms of smoothness and quality of jumps, too. But what does it say about the trend of figure skating? This also applies to female skating. Skaters are hurrying for quads, 5-6 in male, but also FEMALE skating. This necessarily leads to either programs being full of crossovers and empty choreo or tired skaters totally out of breath not having much left, let alone interpret the story and music, which is, after all in my opinion, the point of figure skating.
I have an utmost respect to Nathan or Trusova, their physical abilities, pushing the limits of this sport further and further. However, it is not the way I myself prefer. I still go back to GPF 2015 where Yuzuru performed 3 quads in Seimei program and I will forever cherish this as a moment to remember, his program was so well balanced and composed. However, my crying here will not stop the progress of this sport so I will be happy for those moments Yuzuru still skates like a God or those of Kostornaia beating a girl with 5 quads with triple axels and beautiful skating.
He still got about 35 % GOE on 4Lz (which did not have the smoothest landing, lots of snow) and almost 40 % on 4Lo. So he didn't exactly get hosed on GOE, although I personally would have given him 45-50 % for the 4Lo.
And the rest of his GOE and the PCS in particular were pretty accurate, overall some of his landings didn't look that stable/confident, so I honest to god have no idea why so many of his fans are complaining about underscoring.
And don't get me started on his PCS... the guy was looking down on the ice for most of the program, hunching, dangly arms and only throwing in a few hollow feeling gestures here and there. I didn't get refinement or precision from that, things his admirers claim he has, I also didn't get a feeling of presence and charisma and he visibly ran out of steam towards the end, which coupled with the mistake on the 3A combo sucked out the energy out of what otherwise would have still been quite a triumphant program for him.
(I know you did not criticise the PCS that he got, I'm referring to what many others said about his PCS)
I don't think Yuzu is over, but he actually hasn't beaten Nathan in a program in awhile. The last time was the Olympic SP I believe? Of course they haven't competed together a lot since then. That being said, I'm starting to realize that Nathan performs better with Yuzu while Yuzu performs better without Nathan. Why that is, who knows. I'm also not saying Yuzu is uncle status nowadays, but Nathan is the age of Yuzu after his first OG. The best for him is still to come as long as he stays reasonably healthy and he seems to really takes a lot of effort in not tiring or injuring himself.
@mish098aimer In this particular competition if yuzuru deserved 93 pcs Nathan definitely deserved 95 or higher. In addition to 2 mistakes on his jumps, Yuzu was cautious from the beginning and ran out of steam halfway. He could barely hold his ending pose. I felt the judge was extremely generous toward him on the PC.
Can everyone just remember that Hanyu has asthma......not defending just mentioning
@mish098aimer no yuzuru was overscored PC wise in this competition. He was at perhaps 75% of the quality that he delivered in previous competitions. By saying that I mean yes I agree he is an overall more refined skater than Nathan in term of skating skills and presentation.
"WOW ETERI HAS SUCH A MANICUR..OH SHIT" yup, that's how we all felt about both things.
im confused what's this about?
@@027dramaqueen Dave's Instagram story when they scored Zagitova(:
This and That is one of my few things I set aside for myself each week. Thanks guys for the content you create, and simply extending your passions to all of us. This episode is my favorite of 2019 so far. And Dave I do love that sweater!
Trusova was awarded 98 points on her FS TES with a popped 4 Sal, a fall on 4 Toe. While yuzu here landed 5 quads with a step out on his 4T+eu+3F
Yes, the points don't add up when you look at the rules.
Ren I guess the judges rewarded female more. Please compare apple to apple.
@@zhonglaoshi1 and that's why we have rules and bullets for GOEs. In case you didn't know the bullets for men and women are the same. Nothing is stated on the rule book about a woman jumping a quad getting higher GOE than a man. How about judging them accordingly based solely on the rules 🤔
i disagree with the criticism of ted burton . he is doing a great job especially for many viewers who are not that big experts .
Love Ted, and I even enjoyed the enthusiasm of Chris. For me it is preferable to Catty Weir and Snotty Tanith.
13:15 How much do you think Brian Orser enjoys being a silver medalist of the coaching staff of Yuzuru Hanyu
I am going with no much!
@mish098aimer what about Tracy? don´t you think she has played a major role in the history of success of these 3 skaters? I honestly think she is the real gem behind this team, and I´m not trying to be disrespectful to BO or his achievements nor even rude to you
@@evanperilstein5308 Yuzu only had a 4T i and a very unreliable 4S before moving to Orser, everything else happened under his coaching. Also the overall skating skills didn't happen magically by themselves, all of that had to be taught and practiced.
I think Yuzu won’t be this successful if he stayed in Japan.
When I first saw Nathan with his new costume I thought it was something loose and comfy simply for the practice session. Good thing he is good enough to not need to rely on a good costume!
Nathan's designer knows what is the best for him. Hanyu's designer pursuits her own interest.. l prefer to Nathan's design.
@@akas224 Since when does "simple" have to mean ugly? There is no reason for this equation.
@@vncntd3962 l didn't mean that. sorry as l was drunk. l just wanted to say l prefer to Nathan's. so i rewrote.
Tribute to Star Trek!
It’s really fascinating how quick everything changes in ladies seniors. People fell in love with Alina at Olympics and now spoil the Gran Prix to Eteri and the team, blaming that they didn’t give enough attention to the Olympic and world champion, didn’t prepare and help her. They get a lot of hate and it’s no one’s fault. So we are just staying numb as you said and broken hearted. Like in fashion we had supermodels and later lots of girls, we won’t recognize now.
Zagitova's skates are all about mentality. She is confident and stable when she knows her TES is the highest and she can win if she goes clean even if others are clean too. Knowing she can't beat clean Eteri girls and Rika is making her give up after a mistake because she won't win anyway. I think she'd feel a lot more confident if Tutberidze actually pushed her TES content. And she was enjoying skating like she said but getting buried under new girls is obviously hurting her pride. I just wish she'd train with someone else since Dudakov doesn't seem to be working with her in any way despite making Kostornaia's 3A work after being injured all summer sooo
But how can Eteri push Alina´s TES content when she is struggling with her current one?
@@athinker4024 She doesnt UR as much as people make it out to be, she UR at her bad skates when she makes mistakes/falls which are happening a lot more recently, usually she has good height on triples but her problem is rotation speed which Eteri should be working on but as we can see dont give a f
@mish098aimer She can put 3A or a quad if Liza can do it so can she. She just needs to fix her slow rotation speed.
I am convinced that Eteri´s technique doesn´t work for matured bodies. Alina is still in the process of growing. The change in her body; especially the upper body; is quite obvious in comparison with last year. I´m not an expert but I think the only express way for her to overcome UR is loosing weight before the Nationals.
I am really tired of hearing all the negative comments about Nathan's overscored PCS and GOE. It really tarnished his achievement which is not fare to such a wonderful skater. I am only a casual fan. I would like to ask any experts to give a fare score for Nathan's awesome performance? Thank you.
@mish098aimer OK. But I felt those fans are really mad of Nathan. According to your opinion, how many overscored points did Nathan get?
@mish098aimer Thank you for your information. I am sure Nathan will keep working on his artistry. I think he recognized the score was too high. That's why he wasn't too exciting when he heard the score.
Still Nathan is the best,and I think his costume is ok.
One last thing. Thank you a lot Jonathan for being here with us despite location and internet issues in HK :)
Thank you TSL
Oir Georgians are 20 and 16. I am so happy we got this medal! Cant be more excited! ❣❣❣ I was so cheered up, I was jumping at home!
Love you both for engaging in a conversation with different opinions and presenting your points to each other in such elaborated way with such passion that we can actually totally switch opinions as soon as the other speaks. Like "he's right" oh no "he's right too" oh well "they're both right" even if you have opposite mind on a subject. Awesome guys!!
Nathan clearly likes the fit of those shirts and feels comfortable in them. Last nationals VW made him that black and orange onesie that he changed out of after the practice and ended up wearing a practice outfit because it was tight and uncomfortable.
Honestly I like them. I mean, the color for the free maybe isn’t the best but the shirt for the short I honestly kind of like. I’m not a super big fan of these super tight and obscenely sequined up costumes.
Stephanie Lloyd I agree completely. I didn’t like the colors of either (I actually preferred the multicolor shirt from his two earlier events) but I like the style and the simple black pants / long-ish shirt combo because it’s clear he skates better in these outfits and is more comfortable compared to the fitted one-pieces. He seems to realize it’s working for him. During the nationals FS practice, when he had on that black/orange one-piece, he kept pulling it away from his thighs like it was giving him a front wedgie. Obviously you aren’t going to skate your best if you feel uncomfortable. Long live the baggy shirt!
I'm sure there are better looking comfy shirts...
RKS CA I’m not a super huge fan of the yellow one but to me this and the multicolored one scream “I’m just trying to please you with something more than black” because clearly the fit of them aren’t going to change.
@RKS CA I'm sorry but that yellow blouse he wears has nothing to do with Elton John or the seventies. Nothing whatsoever. And neither did the previous version of this top.
I was already in bed! I saw the notification and jumped to grab my laptop!
By the way thanks Jonathan for the effort! And yes, we couldn't wait until monday. I am sure I was not the only one checking all the time!
Enjoy!!
I have to admit that I was just suckered in as a fan for Alina after all the dramatics at the olympics . I was really rooting for her to do well . I imagine though trying to succeed in an environment like that where your best won’t ever get you a medal is pointless. Sad that the girl is only 17.
Miss Mo if she changes nationality, she can still compete.
yes, but that applies to all senior ladies, Bradie and Rika did well, yet remained off podium.
@@zhonglaoshi1 if she changed nationality, her entire country would set her on fire, she would loose all her commercial contracts. See what reaction Medvedeva got for "having the nerve" to TRAIN under a non-russian coach in a different country.
There isn't much option. Either she can keep her current level ( top 5 Russian girl) and is satisfied with that and uses it to bank ice shows and contracts ( she's still Olympic champion and a very pretty girl), or she's ready to move on.
@@rahelhorvat1471 No she didn't, Rika did not have a combo in the short, she fell. Who knows what would have happened had she landed it. She also took a fall in FS quad sal
Came back to watch this. It is always difficult for champion to accept defeat, it happened to Diaisuke, Patrick Chan, it would the same with Yuzuru. He came to realize it another era is coming (5 and more quads) and he shifted to try to accomplish his childhood dream of 4A before his retirement.
I discussed the Schindler's List costume with one of my best friends whose parents were Holocaust survivors. Her sister was hidden by a Catholic family for a few years, but then, ultimately she was discovered and killed by the Nazis. My friend was born in America in 1951. Her take on this costume was totally different than most. She felt that the costume was "half business suit"..as in life before the Nazis..and then the other half being the uniform of the camps. She felt if it represented the camp guards it would have looked more militaristic. She was not offended by the costume at all. She felt that the program/costume was a remembrance. That was her take. I am a Catholic so my opinion is not relevant.
Very interesting!
That’s what I thought. It depicted his life before the Nazis but I’m Catholic.
Marylou Reiff are you kwanette???
Because im rene a member of FSU...(PTSD from the red screen of death)Jenny and heathers page AND an original day one member of Michelle kwan forum... we have the (almost)same birthday... omg THIS HAS TO BE YOU!!! I think i sent you a copy of my nat’s 93 with michelle for the michelle compilation dvd for mkf marketplace? i havent been on there for years.. but still get happy birthday’s from them every year 😢 XOXOXO
Yes, Rene, my fellow Capricorn! How are you? Those were the days, right? We always agreed!
This and That is the best way to spend the end of a weekend! Love you guys!
Yeah! Four years ago use to be depressing and since the I discover T&T Sunday Nights were sth to look for.
Dave's face when Jonathan says he liked Evan's costume...lol
I think that alysa losing Nationals might be the best thing for her, and Mariah winning will be the best thing for the U.S. When it comes to Worlds.
Camron Chapple mariah is soooooo enjoyable to watch! Hope she wins
Alysa is going to win if she does all of her elements.
ReginaFarfalla I do too, she's the one im rooting for.
idolfan9495 I definitely agree with that statement, but the USFS was expecting so much out of Alysa and she didn't win like they wanted her to. So they could just as easily throw it in Mariah or Bradie’s favor.
I really hope she does. Nothing against her, but she should get like half the PCS or Mariah and they should be pushing Bradie and Mariah as they go to Worlds, not giving the national title to a child who can't compete
Delayed my wine drinking waiting for this episode. Good stuff. Opening a bottle RIGHT NOW! ;)
Dustin Muniz let the comments begin!
I’ve been unable to stomach H/D for years....I’m just glad to see a few more people agreeing with me. I know, you still love their “skating skills”. It’s their general program aesthetic that absolutely makes me gag. On the other had, that C/B free skate pulls me in and is absolutely one of the most interesting and enjoyable free dances in recent memory. Good stuff. I’m not a dance guy though.
54:00 I don't know if it was on purpose, but Dave created a new word. Brutally + beautiful = "Brutiful" Genius.
Is the Zagitova situation any different than Tara Lipinski, Sarah Hughes, Adelina Sotnikova, or Yulia? These girls were lucky enough to be born so that they were 15/16 at the Olympics and they peak at just the right time to win. Then they all retired shortly after. I personally don’t get the emphasis on the Olympic gold for that reason. Zagitova has accomplished a lot but the mentality that she already won everything and is not out to win more is not enough for Eteri, nor should it be, as Eteri is trying to prove that her girls are more than 1 season wonders.
I’m also genuinely curious if each new Eteri girl thinks they’re going to be the exception, that they’re going to have a long sustainable career or if they’re just looking to be here for a good time, not a long time.
I don't think the Eteri girls really realize that they're a part of the Eteri cycle until it hits them
And this is why the age to qualify for seniors needs to be raised. There is no point in having juniors and seniors if 15 year olds can be considered senior ladies. Raise the limit and if they can still do quads as actual seniors, great, more power to them, allow them to do quads in the short program.
Mai ok, their career will not be long, but they will win everything or almost everything. It's the goal for sportsmen. Look at the Medvedeva. She still skates only because she didn't win the Olimpics. Som other skaters skates only because the just can't do anything else. Tuktic, for example, say it's just her work, she wants to get money from victories. It's better when you win everything early then you can go to study somewhere, to develop yourself in other thing except sport. And that's why yes, all the Eteri's girls know what they want
Fsmilka but that’s exactly why there is a flaw in that logic. Only one of the three will win the World Championships this year, so that means that whoever doesn’t win will want to try again next season. But the way the pattern is going, that may not even be a next season for these girls.
Mai with Eteri they have at least chance. But who are they without her. No one, without name, without victories. They have at least two years before Valieva can participate as a senior lady
Whenever I feel overwhelmed and insomniac-ish, I put on TSL. David and Jonathan's commentary and banter always manage to put me at ease. And up to speed with everything figureskating.
And do they put you to sleep?
Bradie really did a great job but I’m so tired of her Disney princess long programs. She needs to do something like her short in her long , something with some pizazz , no princess crap. She’s too old for it.
Miss Mo I don’t agree that her lp this season is princessy. I find it melodic but more grown up than her literal past Disney program. She looks like a new skater.
Cinema Paradiso is not princess music. I liked this program.
In this year at this level of competition, Bradie making GPF was almost shocking. She must have worked so hard and it showed. She deserves a lot more respect than she is getting. No American female skater was predicted to make GPF and yet she did it. Great job Bradie.
Terry O'Brien I’m not saying she stunk . I just don’t like her long program music . I thought she did great. The music is Disney princess like & she’s too old for it. I would like to see her skate to something with more pizazz is all I said ..
I would have said her Olympic LP was definitely Disney princess-y but not this one. Ennio Morricone definitely doesn’t do princess music. Lol I also think this is a great program from her and I loved it.
I wish I could have a text alert of Dave saying "lets talk about the ladies Jonathon"
Alysa Liu: Everything you said, I agree. She’s talented and has lots of potential, but her progress needs to be monitored consistently by a robust team that can address every aspect of her career. I feel like her team primarily consist of her coach and her dad with a few others, but it’s not systematic as Eteri’s school. Alysa’s team has her fly to other coaches to learn more, but is that enough? I don’t know. I think, though, that the USFD will do something about it and bring the resources that she needs. They know that she’s one of their main hope for 2022.
Agreed! She needs a seasoned coach, with a team, who know what they are doing! Think about how Frank nurtured Michelle along at this same age.
@@tb4522 Raf
I don't know why there wouldn't still be a lot of positives in alisa liu's finishing second in the Junior Grand Prix final.I thought that, in past videos, the question going into the season was whether she would deliver on the junior level or not. She seems to have delivered and proven that she knows how to compete and also how to move on quickly after an error.
I really wonder how Tutberidze team is going to close Alina's questions, because today Eteri received 2000 comments in instagram and 50 percent of them was critics, Daniil received 2000 of comments and 99 percent of them was critics. And Alina received 2000 comments with wishes not to give up and continue to skate. It is ruining young girls popularity somehow, because we are a little bit fanatical nation, most of the viewers came with Alina's Olimpic games and also part of the people expected Alina to have longer career to close the trust question with Julia, Zhenya, Elizabeth and other skaters. I think this Grand Prix final removed the pink glasses from many eyes and i am not sure that many people would like to see different smiling girl each year, while another one will be crying. Will they have constant viewers in this situation and promotion contracts during Olimpic season. I personally feel very pity in this situation, because i had unshakable trust to Tutberidze and it fell down, because finally i realised that the programs that they making only juniors can skate, and it is only based on strength of young female body. I really doubt how many years Sasha will jump 5 quads in long program and tripple axel in short. With her body type she was supposed to have a long and fruitful career. And while Sasha takes second place of popularity after Alina among Russian viewers, the decision of putting 5 quads with constant fall from it is also little questionable.
I wanna see Alina competing for a long time. She's so beautiful to watch. And I have to admit if she wants to stay in this field she needs to make a big change. Staying with Eteri won't do any good for her. Her mental isn't strong enough, her body type isn't suitable for Eteri's techniques, and her stamina can't hold programs with a lot of transitions everywhere. She needs to take it easy and learn from other skaters. Beautiful programs don't have to be full (really packed) of transitions, footworks, etc. If she really meant what she said about how she just wanna enjoy skating and doesn't care about placement anymore she really needs to do something asap before she get that mental breakdown and decided to retire. I really love her and I don't want her to retire. I wish she will have Tuktamysheva's mindset, trust the process. Fixing her issues and grow stronger takes a long time. But I believe she can do that, she is a fighter!
@@anandapatricia8442 yes, i agree. And the problem is that i don't see her with any Russian coach, as we don't have anybody compared with Tutberidze from the quality point of you and i still accept the thing that making these programs to her is still the lack of experience may be. May be they really didn't expect that she is not going be able to skate both these programs and that is the reason why didn't make something more easy for her. They should change everything, the whole concept of her skating. She started to have problems with her combo, she doesn't have body for doing it anymore. I don't believe they will send her to America or Canada, it will shake Eteri's image one more time, which is a problem in Russia. Alina is in the middle of this awkward situation and Eteri should challenge herself. Most of the people don't want to see Alina's torments on ice, because it can lead to injures. And this is not Alina's problem, because she trusts everything that they do for her. Daniil should challenge himself also, because Aliona for sure will have the same problem next year, her body is growing. He should think this or give this work to more experienced foreign choreographers. I don't know how they are going to solve this problems, as this group is obsessed with results and to have a star and adult skater in they camp they should overcome this obsession. It was really strange for me that they didn't post any photo with Daniil Samsonov who was actually third in his first Grand Prix final. And this Grand Prix showed new side of this group, Eteri did mistakes everywhere except Kamila in this final. I hope Alina will have the best which she can possibly achieve, because people love her, they want to see her happy and not injured. I don't understand why she should retire, if she wants to skate.
I honestly does not understand the problem. Every athlete is eventually surpassed by a newcomer, Olympic medalists inclyded. That is a natural order of things. I like Alina, but it is unrealistic to expect her skate equally good after winning just everything she could have possibly win. Younger, more eager and more ambitious and thus better emerge. That is interesting and good for the sport. Anf if Alina wants to skate let her do it. I think she does not have a problem with her ego. And maybe she wants to pursue her career in another field, or go to college. She has a plethora of opportunities and retire from a professional sport at 17 can only be good and rewarding. I recently read an interwiev with Sasha Cohen explaining how lost she felt when she had quit the sport because she stayed in figure skating for quite long and didn't know what else to do. Imagine Alina modelling or being a freshman at u university. Wonderful.
@@vesnaklanac4437 the problem is that girl wants to skate and she tells it and if she doesn't close this question normally, she will have problems in her future life. I don't know what nationality you are, but changing faces all the time is a problematic thing in Russia, because everybody takes everything too personal, my husband thought that somebody was dead yesterday, while i started to cry over the whole situation. Nobody from youngsters didn't share photos from Grand Prix final, i think it is a politics of the camp, as people started to search mistakes in girls kiss and cries and interviews. Zhenya lived bulling, Alina lived bulling, this is a cultural thing and it is nearly impossible to explain to everybody that it is something really bad. It is difficult to live it each two years, that is all
@@Olga___864 I understand your concern. I think I know russian mentality. By the way I am from Croatia, a slavic and an ex-communist country. I would be super happy for Alina to continue skating if she wishes so. And I thing Eteri is supportive of her. Athletes usually experience ups snd downs on regular basis, notably after being the best of the best. Look at Hanyu. It is the same thing. And if she is really adamant that she is here to stay, then she must change something, just like Hanyu. And let's be totally honest: she is heavier and her jumps suffer, while male skaters remain light as a feather. But then all the obese women in the world form a united front znd cry anorexia. Btw. I do not know what you meant when you mentioned bullying. Who bullied Medvedeva and Zagitova. As for pics from the GPF, I would advise all Eteri girls to be uber careful because there is so much hate and jealousy out there.
a fascinating grand prix final not only for the competitive drama but all the political implications as well
okay so are we gonna act like zagitova's jumps weren't really good at the beginning of the season. The test skates were spot on and the Japan Open. It wasn't just luck her jumps were very rotated.
@mish098aimer she could have been 3rd with a completely clean skate
@mish098aimer yes but there she had an under-rotation. Also her step sequence was a level 3 and one of her spins.
@mish098aimer okayyyy but if she skated cleaaannnn and got a lvl 4 step sequence like she did here and even if she didn't get the lvl 4 she would still get 3rddddd
1:36:32 This is a small error you've guys talked about multiple times. You *cannot* repeat more than one quad by the rules. So if Trusova does two quad toes, she cannot repeat a flip or a lutz. It's why she keeps trying to add new ones because you can only repeat one quad - she literally cannot do a six quad program unless she has a quad loop by the rules.
JakC you are correct
Such a silly rule
@@JohnnyOpera1 This was the only major rule change that I can remember that didn't really have any explanation or justification. Second-half bonus change was about balance, pairs quad value change was nominally about safety (though I question that), this change was just done for seemingly no reason. I guess maybe to encourage diversity of jumps so it wasn't the same pass again and again ? IDK.
The tea about hanyu. I love it ☕
2 hours guys! Can't wait to hear what you thought. Thank you so much!
You're welcome!
After a hard day, you two make me so happy.
I find it interesting that Kostornaia is such a beautiful, elegant, feminine performer on the ice. And has such a questionable behaviour when she's off the ice. There were quite some criticism about her being on the phone the entire time during the final press conference. Also her comments in Russian that you can sometimes overhear are not the most appropriate for the situation.
rumours say that she is very full of herself! Her behaviour in KC says it all
Вы хоть конференцию саму смотрели или верите слухам. Не было у неё телефона, просто вниз смотрела на руки.
Maybe that's what we get by having little girls competing as seniors and turned into "stars" when they haven't past this teenage phase. I didn't have the best feeling of her press conference, but we also need to take culture difference (Russians are generally abruptly honest and don't sugar coat their words or attitude) and competition fatigue into account.
Trusova seems the most fun personality, Scherbakova has a "good student" attitude, and Kostornaia came across as the typical teen girl ( look: I just competed, l'm happy about it, I won, I'm not interested about answering boring questions, gimme my chocolate bouquet 💐 and let me rest ).
You know, all three girls have been in a pressure cooker for the past months. I think their silliness is just a normal release of tension.
What did she say? Someone said the three A's giggled when Alina's score came up and said"I thought she'd be fourth".
That sip of water at 1:05:58 Thank you, Dave!
Patricia
Eteri is going to hire ghislain...mark my words, Hanyu will go with him. The ultimate power move.
That would be insane!
@Cindy Yeah I am aware. It was the first thing to hit my mind when I saw all those videos. Something straight out of the art of war. No evgenia in the GPF (probably ever again) then to take your last great star. Just for the drama I need to see it
@mish098aimer wait, are u guys saying, Eteri is taking Hanyu on board?
I'm living for this drama
If that happens that would be sooooooo crazy!!!! 😱🙈😂
The discussions from around 23:50 onwards about the comparison between Nathan and Yuzuru should be mandatory listening by all rabid fanyus who refuse to fully acknowledge Nathan's achievements in GPF '19 and think judges were wrong at throwing the PCS scores at his phenomenal free skate that defies belief, especially after a scratchy Yuzuru.