Sandra, I wish I had filmed my P2-3, and early P4 flights. There's a lot to learn. So, I'm glad you're posting and reviewing these. It'll help a ton. That drastic turn at the end is one we all do when we're new, showing that we've not learned to plan ahead and don't understand our actual glide/sink. I read these comments below, and think that everyone online can give their take in a helpful or unhelpful way. Hope a word or two here can help encourage you that you've already pinpointed/focussed on the most important part, that final turn. Main thing is that you'll get better at judging distance and sink rate a lot better as you fly more, and be able to set up your approach-base-final landing technique, and be able to add figure 8 turns into the base leg if you initiate the sequence too high (usually better to initiate to high than too low), as you gain more experience. You'll also get better at judging how much scratching you can really do on super stable days like that. Seeing the smoke in the valley, and the 'run' on launch will become familiar signs of having to bail out to the LZ earlier than hoped for. Your turns down low are what screwed you up, not the scratching up high per se. Up by launch you were at what appeared to be the top of the stable layer which is why there was some climbs there. Once you started heading out into the valley to land, it would help if you just focus on getting out then doing scenic turns above the LZ. This is where looking at your glide angle on your instrument, and using bar to optimize your glide will help , and will become more familiar as you progress. Glide is everything!. Your critique of yourself is certainly the most important piece of that flight. Set up your approach, and especially your base and final leg of landing well in advance. Many many PG pilots die from that 'spin-like' turn at the end you did. And you picked up on that being the crux! Good job... So, you already know the most important piece, and you are around to learn and fly again, despite getting injured. Nice work looking at the flight and doing a self-critique. Fly High and keep up the vids.
I don't see many comments on this, but I would highly advise getting in an almost "launch position" when landing. (Feet down one Infront of the other, slightly crouched, chest down on the chest strap, ready to run anything off). It is often not enough to just get out of the harness, hanging off like in those baby bouncy things. An extra to being able to absorb more impact, it also loads the glider in a way that your final flare is more effective, doing the swoop landing you see people do (fast speed, then flare into a gentle prop) I'm mainly writing this as I was seeing your latest videos where you opt for the butt slide often. And I was the one doing the opposite of what I preach until people sat me down. It feels safe, until it is not. I'm glad you are safe and enjoying it, thank you for the video, breakdowns like this help the community more than anything else.
You give some good points there. I have done a lot of butt landings just to save my leg (it acts up now and then) but this one was to burn off speed pure and simple. Down wind sucks in any situation. I agree though that I need to do more run-outs just because it looks better (haha) I did a lot of swooping and running in Turkey and no problems, but before the SIV, once again worried about messing up my leg so butt land city those days. One day I tried to do a foot skid as the walk is covered in sand and very slippery, but as luck would have it, a street sweeper had just cleaned all the sand off! Nearly face-planted, but lots of other pilots were majorly wiping out so didn't feel too bad!
@@sandrainthesky1011 Absolutely understandable. And usually the faster the landing the more impact could be on whatever the landing gear is. Still something I can't fully crack, but the power of the perfect flare at the perfect time is ideal. You know, those ones you see awesome pilots do on fast approach, breaks all the way below the seatplate and they just gently super-man land ? Yeah, those ones. But you are spot on, some of those foot drags after a few spirals at an SIV look incredible. Helps if everyone else around you doesn't fear failing sensibly haha
You tend to fly with too much brakes applied. Even when flying just a straight line, you keep pulling your brakes almost down to the carabiner level (at least that's an impression from this video). Your EN-A glider can tolerate this, but you expose yourself to a higher risk: the glider is much slower and has much more chance to stall. It's extremely hard to stall an EN-A, but not impossible. And also, flying like that you're just training a wrong behavior. Speed is safety! Let your glider fly (as you do it on the final glide), keep your brakes in a position where you just feel a slight tension.
Interesting & thanks.I know this fine. I am into the brakes a bit for thermalling but not any more than arm's weight other times. Guess the video makes it look much deeper. The main reason for the landing out was underestimating the strength of the thermals. They all seemed pokey and small, you could fly straight through 4 or 5, gain a bit, then go back, like thermal ridge soaring sorta. All the thermals were combining at higher altitude (I was told) but seems the sink was combining at the lower levels. Big sink.I have flown this route probably 40 times so had become accustomed to the glide ratio from specific points.
Thanks for posting these videos. I just found them tonight. I got my P2 earlier this year but then crashed on my 30th flight. Broken foot in 6 places .... but I'll be back spring of 2023 at FFP!
Whoa! That sucks. It happens though, hope you learned from it. Myself, I think I'm a slow learner as I smacked up 5 ribs in June, the 2 on the other side in August. All just bad luck. Nothing really broken AFAIK but same thing, 6 weeks to heal. Happily no injuries since. I hope you're healed up in time for spring/summer. See ya there!
Girl Ya Hobbled or walked away thats a good thing , thought you were doing a sweet swoop landing till i say captions , Poo Happens But hey this is the game to be in , and knowing you this will be a lesson learnt , weve been there but well we still go back up LOL :-) 1st chnace , Recover well nad look forward to next flight girl , by the way that take off site looks ptreey awesome for decent Top to Bottoms as say . Keep safe and keep on learing its part of the fun of Flying
@@sandrainthesky1011 can still fly but have nightmares about out landing if i have to walk back up to hill / Moutain to get car , really need to arrange pick up crew then i can get back into the skies , doing well girl just clock u the hours airtime and it all falls into place ( no pun intended ) but that site would be ideal LOL problem is Wrong country LOL
We all do these kind of mistakes as beginners. And don't be to botherd about not catching those tight thermals. School wings are a bit to slow to respond to those if you don't know exactly what you are doing. It gets better and more fun as well
No active flying what so ever! Holding the risers gives you no feed back at all. Looks like you had plenty time to react but instead you never put any weight shift or opposite break input. SIV training is advised before you seriously do some harm to yourself.
Thanks for your input but I'm not sure when you mean? I was going down and wish I hadn't put so much weight shift into the turn. After the turn I was going with the wind too. Sorry I just feel a bit insulted by your comment as I never had any trouble with pitch or roll since my very first solo flight, it's all automatic from 100+ hours of kiting before that so... BTW been waiting to do SIV but CoVid killed it.
@@sandrainthesky1011 Sorry that you feel insulted I don’t mean to upset you. Glad you’re ok. Fly safely and always land into wind. I just noticed that your hands were holding the risers a lot.
@@erholla. Thanks, I hook them with thumb is all, to feel them going back, then slide up and down. Also BTW doing SIV in Oludeniz in spring, looks like you were there before ;)
@@sandrainthesky1011 Hi there Sandra. First of all, glad you are okay. It is great to hear you analyse. In fixed wing aircraft we call what happened to you "getthereitis". Pilots set a goal based on expectations. When the situation changes though some fail to adjust their plan and things happen. You are right, best would have been to land earlier on a field using a proper landing pattern - or dissipate altitude by figure 8's and land where you did against the wind (or sideway on slope). But to be honest, I have seen many pilots do worse in a situation similar to yours, some just crashed straight into obstacles on their intended flight path. The main part is, you acted as pilot in command, made a decision and leaned from the outcome. ;-) What Ellis refers to btw is actively stabilizing the wing by combining weight shift and dynamically working with the brakes. Keeping the hands sliding with the thumb on the risers might give a feel of safety, but it really affects weight shifting and the "feel" for the wing. If you can, check out some videos from Chrigel Maurer, he wraps the brakes often and keeps a finger on the line above the brake handle to have a sensitive feel for changes in brake pressure. That helps a lot, also when trying to locate lift especially with small bumpy thermals. The other part is the weight shift. Maybe it is the camera, but it indeed looks a bit like you try to sit centered in the harness. Active flying with weight shift means that you adjust brake pressure to keep the wing stable over your head (the finger thingie helps) and to shift weight from side to side to keep the wing evenly loaded in normal flight. And when turning you lean into the inner side of the turn, can be as far as with your head going further out than the riser once you get comfortable there. One important potential safety issue: It looked to me that after launch you grabbed the risers to push yourself back into the harness. Not sure if I saw that correctly, but if so, this is very hazardous. In this moment the wing is not controlled by you and pushing the risers can destabilize it. A gust in the wrong moment can ruin your day then. Maybe the harness needs some adjustment, and if not possible, I'd wait until there is safe ground clearance before pushing in. About the decision making: Greg Hammerton has some great videos of his XPyr competition flying where he openly shows some real bad decisions he made, what led to them and what he learned - especially when he flies during Tramontane wind. Sorry for going on so long, happy flying and safe landings from the old world :)
keeping your risers always is a big mistake.... you are passanger and not the pilot in this case..... fly more activ...use the accellerator.... use your weight.... there is always space to get better..... good job.... appreciate that yu face your msitakes.... really grate
Sandra, I wish I had filmed my P2-3, and early P4 flights. There's a lot to learn. So, I'm glad you're posting and reviewing these. It'll help a ton. That drastic turn at the end is one we all do when we're new, showing that we've not learned to plan ahead and don't understand our actual glide/sink. I read these comments below, and think that everyone online can give their take in a helpful or unhelpful way. Hope a word or two here can help encourage you that you've already pinpointed/focussed on the most important part, that final turn. Main thing is that you'll get better at judging distance and sink rate a lot better as you fly more, and be able to set up your approach-base-final landing technique, and be able to add figure 8 turns into the base leg if you initiate the sequence too high (usually better to initiate to high than too low), as you gain more experience. You'll also get better at judging how much scratching you can really do on super stable days like that. Seeing the smoke in the valley, and the 'run' on launch will become familiar signs of having to bail out to the LZ earlier than hoped for. Your turns down low are what screwed you up, not the scratching up high per se. Up by launch you were at what appeared to be the top of the stable layer which is why there was some climbs there. Once you started heading out into the valley to land, it would help if you just focus on getting out then doing scenic turns above the LZ. This is where looking at your glide angle on your instrument, and using bar to optimize your glide will help , and will become more familiar as you progress. Glide is everything!. Your critique of yourself is certainly the most important piece of that flight. Set up your approach, and especially your base and final leg of landing well in advance. Many many PG pilots die from that 'spin-like' turn at the end you did. And you picked up on that being the crux! Good job... So, you already know the most important piece, and you are around to learn and fly again, despite getting injured. Nice work looking at the flight and doing a self-critique. Fly High and keep up the vids.
Thanks Sandra, I think sharing mistakes like this and being honest about your considerations helps the community to learn. It helps me. Happy flying!
I don't see many comments on this, but I would highly advise getting in an almost "launch position" when landing. (Feet down one Infront of the other, slightly crouched, chest down on the chest strap, ready to run anything off). It is often not enough to just get out of the harness, hanging off like in those baby bouncy things.
An extra to being able to absorb more impact, it also loads the glider in a way that your final flare is more effective, doing the swoop landing you see people do (fast speed, then flare into a gentle prop)
I'm mainly writing this as I was seeing your latest videos where you opt for the butt slide often. And I was the one doing the opposite of what I preach until people sat me down.
It feels safe, until it is not.
I'm glad you are safe and enjoying it, thank you for the video, breakdowns like this help the community more than anything else.
You give some good points there. I have done a lot of butt landings just to save my leg (it acts up now and then) but this one was to burn off speed pure and simple. Down wind sucks in any situation.
I agree though that I need to do more run-outs just because it looks better (haha) I did a lot of swooping and running in Turkey and no problems, but before the SIV, once again worried about messing up my leg so butt land city those days. One day I tried to do a foot skid as the walk is covered in sand and very slippery, but as luck would have it, a street sweeper had just cleaned all the sand off! Nearly face-planted, but lots of other pilots were majorly wiping out so didn't feel too bad!
@@sandrainthesky1011 Absolutely understandable. And usually the faster the landing the more impact could be on whatever the landing gear is.
Still something I can't fully crack, but the power of the perfect flare at the perfect time is ideal. You know, those ones you see awesome pilots do on fast approach, breaks all the way below the seatplate and they just gently super-man land ? Yeah, those ones.
But you are spot on, some of those foot drags after a few spirals at an SIV look incredible. Helps if everyone else around you doesn't fear failing sensibly haha
Good to see you are ok. Keep it up Sara. Keep learning. We all need mistakes to learn on. Thanks for sharing.
You tend to fly with too much brakes applied. Even when flying just a straight line, you keep pulling your brakes almost down to the carabiner level (at least that's an impression from this video). Your EN-A glider can tolerate this, but you expose yourself to a higher risk: the glider is much slower and has much more chance to stall. It's extremely hard to stall an EN-A, but not impossible. And also, flying like that you're just training a wrong behavior. Speed is safety! Let your glider fly (as you do it on the final glide), keep your brakes in a position where you just feel a slight tension.
Interesting & thanks.I know this fine. I am into the brakes a bit for thermalling but not any more than arm's weight other times. Guess the video makes it look much deeper.
The main reason for the landing out was underestimating the strength of the thermals. They all seemed pokey and small, you could fly straight through 4 or 5, gain a bit, then go back, like thermal ridge soaring sorta. All the thermals were combining at higher altitude (I was told) but seems the sink was combining at the lower levels. Big sink.I have flown this route probably 40 times so had become accustomed to the glide ratio from specific points.
Thanks for posting these videos. I just found them tonight. I got my P2 earlier this year but then crashed on my 30th flight. Broken foot in 6 places .... but I'll be back spring of 2023 at FFP!
Whoa! That sucks. It happens though, hope you learned from it. Myself, I think I'm a slow learner as I smacked up 5 ribs in June, the 2 on the other side in August. All just bad luck. Nothing really broken AFAIK but same thing, 6 weeks to heal. Happily no injuries since. I hope you're healed up in time for spring/summer. See ya there!
Stop touching/ holding the risers… this can really hurt you.
Girl Ya Hobbled or walked away thats a good thing , thought you were doing a sweet swoop landing till i say captions , Poo Happens But hey this is the game to be in , and knowing you this will be a lesson learnt , weve been there but well we still go back up LOL :-) 1st chnace , Recover well nad look forward to next flight girl , by the way that take off site looks ptreey awesome for decent Top to Bottoms as say . Keep safe and keep on learing its part of the fun of Flying
Hi Cal! It is an amazing site even for sled rides. Thank you for the encouraging words, it is always an adventure!
@@sandrainthesky1011 can still fly but have nightmares about out landing if i have to walk back up to hill / Moutain to get car , really need to arrange pick up crew then i can get back into the skies , doing well girl just clock u the hours airtime and it all falls into place ( no pun intended ) but that site would be ideal LOL problem is Wrong country LOL
Where is the take off ? In Canada?
Freedom Flight Park, in BC Canada yes
Land on your feet!
I did have the landing gear down. As soon as I noticed was going up hill I think I opted for a butt skid to lose more speed.... probably.
We all do these kind of mistakes as beginners. And don't be to botherd about not catching those tight thermals. School wings are a bit to slow to respond to those if you don't know exactly what you are doing. It gets better and more fun as well
No active flying what so ever! Holding the risers gives you no feed back at all. Looks like you had plenty time to react but instead you never put any weight shift or opposite break input. SIV training is advised before you seriously do some harm to yourself.
Thanks for your input but I'm not sure when you mean? I was going down and wish I hadn't put so much weight shift into the turn. After the turn I was going with the wind too. Sorry I just feel a bit insulted by your comment as I never had any trouble with pitch or roll since my very first solo flight, it's all automatic from 100+ hours of kiting before that so... BTW been waiting to do SIV but CoVid killed it.
@@sandrainthesky1011 Sorry that you feel insulted I don’t mean to upset you. Glad you’re ok. Fly safely and always land into wind. I just noticed that your hands were holding the risers a lot.
@@erholla. Thanks, I hook them with thumb is all, to feel them going back, then slide up and down. Also BTW doing SIV in Oludeniz in spring, looks like you were there before ;)
@@sandrainthesky1011 you'll have a great time and come away with so much experience, good luck Sandra.
@@sandrainthesky1011 Hi there Sandra. First of all, glad you are okay. It is great to hear you analyse. In fixed wing aircraft we call what happened to you "getthereitis". Pilots set a goal based on expectations. When the situation changes though some fail to adjust their plan and things happen. You are right, best would have been to land earlier on a field using a proper landing pattern - or dissipate altitude by figure 8's and land where you did against the wind (or sideway on slope). But to be honest, I have seen many pilots do worse in a situation similar to yours, some just crashed straight into obstacles on their intended flight path. The main part is, you acted as pilot in command, made a decision and leaned from the outcome. ;-)
What Ellis refers to btw is actively stabilizing the wing by combining weight shift and dynamically working with the brakes. Keeping the hands sliding with the thumb on the risers might give a feel of safety, but it really affects weight shifting and the "feel" for the wing. If you can, check out some videos from Chrigel Maurer, he wraps the brakes often and keeps a finger on the line above the brake handle to have a sensitive feel for changes in brake pressure. That helps a lot, also when trying to locate lift especially with small bumpy thermals. The other part is the weight shift. Maybe it is the camera, but it indeed looks a bit like you try to sit centered in the harness. Active flying with weight shift means that you adjust brake pressure to keep the wing stable over your head (the finger thingie helps) and to shift weight from side to side to keep the wing evenly loaded in normal flight. And when turning you lean into the inner side of the turn, can be as far as with your head going further out than the riser once you get comfortable there.
One important potential safety issue: It looked to me that after launch you grabbed the risers to push yourself back into the harness. Not sure if I saw that correctly, but if so, this is very hazardous. In this moment the wing is not controlled by you and pushing the risers can destabilize it. A gust in the wrong moment can ruin your day then. Maybe the harness needs some adjustment, and if not possible, I'd wait until there is safe ground clearance before pushing in.
About the decision making: Greg Hammerton has some great videos of his XPyr competition flying where he openly shows some real bad decisions he made, what led to them and what he learned - especially when he flies during Tramontane wind.
Sorry for going on so long, happy flying and safe landings from the old world :)
keeping your risers always is a big mistake.... you are passanger and not the pilot in this case..... fly more activ...use the accellerator.... use your weight.... there is always space to get better..... good job.... appreciate that yu face your msitakes.... really grate