I caught them in a lie
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- Опубліковано 22 бер 2023
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I am so invested in this story. I am going to bet the civil enforcer lied to you, because he realized he fucked up. No way an address disappears, when someone else can reference it easily.
Agreed, particularly the way he would pivot to saying “well it’s being taken care of now that’s what really matters” ,
Liars
I work for a State government man. The system we have is pretty trash. It will just delete certain things if a certain process is triggered. It does not keep old addresses either or at least it is very hard to find them.
There should be a process for actual deletion. But it should require a court order.
He wouldn't be covering if not for a good reason, clearly he's the key for the source of all this clownery
Louis, I'm a retired white collar crime investigator and I would be really interested to see how many of these bogus leans were paid and where that money got funneled. Ironside may have a side-hustle venture whereby even if a handful of businesses pay out per month, the total grift might sum up tremendously.
I can't think of a more likely State where this could happen!
That is if people payed it at all. But if they paid it, it should have been in connection to the anyway required taxes. So how would that fraud should have worked? It doesn’t makes much sense to me…
@@worldpeace1822 I can believe that you wouldn’t understand, you couldn’t even get that across correctly!
This is what I'm thinking. This is very much a "follow the money" kinda deal. How many other people were effected? He wasn't the only one. How much you wanna bet they've got numerous other schemes in the same style?
The govts professional business is laundering money. A blue collar worker steals a train car, the educated steals the whole train. 👌
"The elevator wasn't quite going to the top over there" is one of the most hilarious things said so far this whole saga. Bless that woman, truly NY's best state employee.
Don't underestimate the office of "the nice lady". Perhaps, her inquiries into Louis' case, caught _someone's_ attention. If I were Louis, I'd call that office, _again._ He should pretend like he is just trying to gather as much information as possible.
Don't tip them off, Louis. Play your cards as close to the vest as you can.
For instance...
"The nice lady" revealed _some details_ about _3 notices._ Louis would like to gather _all details_ about _all notices._ If the address given is still the P.O. Box in Maine, then he gets some insight into where the deception _is not_ located. If, instead, they tell Louis the notices went to his 1st Ave. address in Manhattan (or some other address), then _someone appears_ to be tampering with records. Most likely, to conceal gross incompetence.
But, that is just conjecture. "The nice lady" may, in fact, have read the wrong address from the wrong record. After all, the warrant (ID: E043450161W001) was issued to "ROSSMANN SUPPLY GROUP INC". And Louis keeps telling them "Rossmann _Repair_ Group" on the phone.
Do you see how people with malfunctioning "elevators" may get confused?
Do they have _the correct address_ for "Repair Group" and _the wrong address_ for "SUPPLY GROUP"?
Has Louis ever owned "ROSSMANN SUPPLY GROUP INC"? If yes, what was its address? If not, wtf?
Louis does not make those discrepancies clear _to them_ - so how can they account for them _to him?_
"Rossman Repair Group? Nope. I don't see any balance in our system. Warrant ID E043450161W001? Oh, yeah! Rossmann Supply Group Inc. has a lien! And we've notified you, at your P.O. Box in Maine." 🙄
The first calls sounded like they were just looking up information, the last call sounded like they were trying really hard to think how to present the case so that it's been dealt without admitting any guilt.
You've worked in customer support, by the sound of it, or dealt with them a bit.
Absolutely.
Great summary of the phone calls! 👍
That "you're welcome" absolutely kills me lmao. Keep digging Louis, this stuff really NEEDS to be seen by more people. The level of incompetence is staggering, and actually unbelievable without all this video evidence.
Ya, he had major "now thank me for screwing you" energy
Staggering is being generous. No, this is outright criminal at this point.
@@EternalResonance That is literally the point of "the system" heh
That ass deserves a huge F.U
@@EternalResonance aapq
Interestingly, the people sounded like they were typing and pulling up records. The final boss didn't sound like they were pulling up any records... and was spouting your own answers back to you. What an amazing and interesting voice.
I honestly believe he's putting on a fake voice to try and give himself plausible deniability.
Well, with the age of the other equipment, it's possible most of them are on original IBM Model Ms.
@Telleva maybe final boss but not even his final form
The typing sound was so generic and loud I believe it was a recording
How could that Post Office in Maine know nothing about 400 lien notices, for different company names, going to one of their boxes all at the same time? That’s something that would likely have been referred to the postal inspector. Do a FOIA request with the postal inspector for Maine. Might learn something interesting from their investigation.
Being stuck in NY and dealing w similar bs I would say the letters were never sent
@@mertonallowicious still would be important to find out.
Louis only spoke to one person. She may not of worked there when/if that happened.
@@poppyrider5541 Right, the worker there said they only had records back to 2018 and the interesting time period is 2-3 years before that cut-off?
I don't remember hearing anything about 400 liens going to the same address. The issues was 400 leans on the same day for the same amount.
Brilliant use of Darkseid
No Darkseid ever lived up to Michael Ironside's portrayal.
@@rossmanngroup word!
Discount Michael Ironside!!!!😂😂😂
@@rossmanngroup His verbal gravitas is unrivaled.
@@MultiSycorax I've never spoken to a serial killer, but in my nightmares they sound just like Mr. Gonzales.
Louis, I wonder if you can contact Corporation Tax Liability Resolution again (the first people you talked to who gave you the address in Maine) and see if they're able to send you a copy of the original warrant (the one that apparently went out 3 times) with the incorrect address on it, with the explanation that you want a copy of the original warrant to keep with a copy of the paperwork clearing it up once you receive that. Perhaps if you can call back and ask for the supervisor who helped you (after all, you do have her name and ID number) and see if she can send it. From a record keeping standpoint this would probably be a good thing to ask for. Since this is a court record then as far as I understand it, the original should not be altered.
Commenting so the algorithm boosts this so he sees it.
Louis must see this
Bump
Huge bump
bumping it up!
That guy had the guts to say that it was originally a valid warrant to issue but that they looked at it again and decided it never should have been issued
400+ business all getting ghost notices mailed to same pseudo-fictional mailing address?
Sounds like an accounting/programing stress test gone wrong and entered into real world database in error. Who knows what it took to keep this covered up for the past 10 years.
Keep up the fight and hold them accountable!
That was my thought as well. It wouldn't surprise me if they were running on some ancient program (because thats how the public sector operates), and when someone added the 65,636th record, the system shat itself. That would explain the rep saying sometimes weird data entries "just happen".
You need to go to the media about this whole thing. They'd love to investigate a story about this kind of malfeasance, and because you recorded the employee's names and employee numbers, they won't be able to escape accountability in the public sphere. You can do this!!
This is the media.
You don't understand. Rossmann *is* the media.
maybe in the 90's they would have loved covering gvt corruption, but have you been paying attention lately? The only way they'd be interested if it was somehow related to smearing Trump. NY is as liberal as they come and the media has long ago been forbidden to cover the rampant corruption amongst the democrats by their owners
I am the media.
In all seriousness, if you want someone else to cover it, ask them to! I am one dude. My email will be overlooked or deleted. My call ignored. The emails/calls of all of you, that's different.
IF you want me to show up on FOX news tonight or CNN or something, make it happen. My email is louis@rossmanngroup.com - get them interested.
Network, probably not. But local news frequently likes these things.
Hmm!! Louis, i've just looked at the State Taxation website. I'm astounded at how many have identical tax liens on the same day. This is highly improbable for this occurrence. Unless there is a minimum fine for not submitting taxes on time, this is highly suspicious. So either NY state is randomly fining companies to stuff their coffers, or there are people in the warrant division collecting bogus fines and pocketing the cash. As he openly lied to you about the mailing address. I wouldn't be surprised if you talked to people that your identical fine had their warrants also sent to Maine! Just a thought.
@LunarBreeze I think the PO box owner was called by Louis. She had not received any mail. The post office told Louis that wrong names on the PO box address made them send it back.
Issuance on the same day is not that suspicious though. They can be piling up cases to be issued and every so often actually issue them so it is not improbable that they processed all piled up cases the same day. What makes it suspicious are those other factors Louis mentioned - the amount being the same or same company creation year.
Someone mentioned these kinds of records get batch processed so it would not be strange. Also the amount could be a fixed fine or something. Just some alternative causes. The po box might be an address mismisalignment in a data base.
@@N1h1L3 exactly. What you need to do is establish whether this is an abnormal occurrence, check a few other random dates, same week previous year, same day of the month a few months later. These things are done automatically and in batches. At least by now they should be.
@@baskoning9896 That is not true, I have a PO Box and I get wrong mail in. From the previous owner, and sometimes from other folks. There is a missed mailed box near by and we just put it in there. I have not gotten any recently though. BTW, my name is on the internal part of the box, but for a while I was still getting misdirected mail…
One trick you need to know when on the phone that you made a mistake of doing is "Ask don't tell". When you asked what address iron had you TOLD him what you were expecting, which means he only had to agree to get you off his case. Make sure He Tells You what address he has
The easiest way to get to the bottom of this would be a couple of FOI requests. They *should* be free to do and a FOI request has rules around it that ensure you get the real information. They are also counted as good evidence when presented in court. Just make sure you not only request copies of all documents sent, but also the envelope mailing address and all (if any) information on access to your records and especially the modification information. Good luck!
Foi requests are NOT free. They charge for the service, and (if they want to), they can be VERY stingy on the parameters.
@@AtrusOranis well, I guess the way your region handles them are different to mine. Then again, I'm not in NY or even the US. Thanks for the extra information
FOI requests are routinely ignored and manipulated.
I would try a FOIA of the 3 records that were supposedly sent to Berwick ME : The Warrant, The Lien, and whatever the other document was (Probably a notice of impending xxx), and also the affidavit supporting the warrant.
Those records should show addresses, and maybe a backtrail of who issued the warrant and lien.
Getting the FOIA filled without fuckery on their part may be... challenging, of course.
Stay chill!
It occurs to me that she had to separately check where the mail was going to - that was a different set of information than the warrant itself, and only came up when she went to check where the confirmation letter was going (and you had already gone through someone who'd very helpfully resolved the dual-profile issue and _not_ come up on that address at the time). Discount Thanos didn't check anything other than what was on the warrant and the business profile.
It's possible that nobody lied, but that Discount Shredder just _couldn't be bothered_ looking any deeper. It's not like he actually did anything for you other than do a superficial profile read and then try to get you off the phone.
My suspicion: There are two issues involved here. First is the default business record generation wasn't consolidating with the finalised business record generation resulting in a whole bunch of businesses getting marked as unpaid on dead profiles. The second is that their mail generation system is badly integrated, and operates separately from their business record system. The creation of warrants and _the creation of mail_ are two different things, and that's what's making the first problem remain hidden.
Of course it’s separate. The mail generation system was probably created years after the other system was. The government in general is REALLY bad about stuff like this, and you end up with really shitty stapled together infrastructure. There is a lot in this country that needs to be rebuilt from the ground up but won’t happen because it’s all piled up over time.
@@notcat56 It's pretty standard to modularise any system like that, so what really matters is how data moves from one module to another. Properly set up, you could infinitely expand a system no issues.
It seems like from what information we have the business record system doesn't export the business's profile data to the mail system every time a new mail item is created, but rather the mail system holds onto its own profile (chances are the mail content is just sent as a document file of some kind and the mailing system doesn't even need to touch that beyond appending it to the record). If there's some kind of mismatch in the way that information is handled that could make some kind of sense, as a communication error between the two modules would result in _all_ mail failing to generate, taking the mailing system down entirely. Somewhat sensible to try to limit the scope of any error that occurs. But less sensible is it seems like it doesn't check with the user whether the address is the correct one (or their process in using it skips over doing that), and as a result any mistakenly stored incorrect records are not gonna get caught.
@@Zahaqiel I’ll give you that it’s normal for this to be modularized, but what I’m getting at is that these two systems clearly weren’t designed to work together, or however they’re communicating is really poorly done. In either case, that’s really shitty stapled together infrastructure. I have no clue how it actually works so this is of course speculation, but ideally there’d be some kind of API the mail system can use to sync this data like you said. This whole thing should not have even been possible.
@@notcat56 Yeah, chances are they took a bunch of off-the-shelf products and stitched them together.
But this whole situation does have the stink of systems interacting and having composite effects that nobody building each part would have ever conceived of needing to worry about.
This sounds like the likely situation to me too. Discount Thanos' tone sounds just as much like "call center supervisor paid to get you off the line ASAP, so he says and does the bare minimum until you go away" as Actual Villain, Discount Thanos.
I love this saga. Hopefully you can find a willing lawyer to take this on without payment upfront
Class action is probably the only way that is likely to succeed
@@noq9866 probably, but should be easy with 400 or 600 or whatever amount he said other victims to this incompetence
Maybe he can get a loan now-
Just wondering how do I join the discord?
Louis can just tell the lawyer he sent the check to an address in Maine
I agree with Louis, the department that "issues and revokes" the warrants is the one I feel needs the most scrutiny. The bit where you mention how your business is in Tx was the best subtle "screw you" ever. Keep up the pressure Louis, I think this could turn into something huge...
If those 400 other business warrants line up together coming with other businesses, then you might be able to put this into a class act case of attempted fraud. At the very least, it's a Case that could rock the news for a big bust. And Lawyers would love to have a bite of that meal!
*_Class Action Lawsuits_* are actually BAD because they only benefit the Lawyers & Attorneys on the case... NOT the clients.
...Even with millions in damages, that's a good chuck of change for the law firm (33%), but it's only pennies for people damaged (once you split it up).
@@nikolaikalashnikov4253 But even then its bringing news coverage to the shit the government offices are doing in new york, which can only be good
@@nikolaikalashnikov4253 Depends on the lawsuit. Some have been worthless to me. A few times I've gotten amounts that were small but okay for what the lawsuit was about. One that is pending is going to get me around $300 to fully refund money I spent. I think all the attention given to how crappy class actions have turned out have resulted in changes in demands by the plaintiffs. In that current one the agreement caps the attorney funds and they are funded separately from damages so they don't impact the payout to consumers.
@@nikolaikalashnikov4253 if the winnings is in the millions and is split 400 ways thats still a lot.. The problem you mention with class actions only aplies if there are thousands of plaintiffs.
why there just cover it up. They own the media.
The guy has the most super villain voice I have heard outside of movies or animations.
It's very forced. 😂😂😂
the casting in this sim is great
dude he practically sounds like content control from the text-to-speech videos. Look it up and tell me if I'm wrong.
I wouldn't want Rossmann Repair group to disappear over this. NYC needs someone to stick it to them, but selling the business sounds like too steep of a price.
Following Louis is like following a series on Netflix, ups, downs, all arounds, twists and turns, now he is going to be breaking bones... Metaphorically of course
I would file a privacy request with the agency and get a copy of your phone calls from them. See how many “seem to go missing” once they realize you’re digging?
Yes!
than your find out the IRS is looking into your business.
Just the act of faking his voice (because he does break character the longer the convo goes) makes you wonder what else he's willing to lie about.
His attitude reminded me of the bureaucrat aliens in "hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy" movie
@@ElGoogKO his voice is perfect for Vogon poetry.
From my past experiences of working in call centers, I can say that all of the people who would put on fake voices on their calls were genuinely unpleasant people to be around.
It's a testament to how entertaining Louis Rossman is that I've spent at least an hour of my time listening to him waiting on hold.
The fact that he said, "I can see the entire history here." Most systems like this are transaction based, so there should be a history of it being changed.
Don't know if anyone else mentioned this, but Ironside's voice tone got higher the further the call went, obviously I think he was starting to get really nervous. Note how he was trying to end the call by saying that the important thing (for him) was that your Lien was vacated and you drop the chase.
Oh, is that who the animated dude was? I thought it was a variation on Thanos. I haven't seen many (DC? 'Cause Supes?) cartoons.
I love they can issue warrants without any due process, thats nice to know.
Warrants are the start of your due process, so yes they can be issued without a guilty court verdict because that's how they get you into court. The problem is the warrant was issued in error, if the taxes HADN'T been paid and IF the warrant had been properly served, then there wouldn't be an issue. You get the warrant, you come into court, and then guilt gets shown, in theory at any rate.
@@donovandelozier7156 based
@@donovandelozier7156 does not make me feel better :( So for example, a cop sees you do something, arrests you, presents PC etc. This is just some guy saying "my computer told me to". In one case the cop is putting their word on it, this is just faceless?
@fishheadbreakroom no people do have to put their faces and the evidence used to arrive at their (legalese term that translates to common speech as something like reasonable suspicion), and a magistrate/judge has to sign his or her name that the presented evidence does in fact meet the standard for bringing the person into court. The process is not always actually followed unfortunately....
Land of the free lads and lasses
I can't for the life of me understand how they wouldn't have a previously filed address somewhere in their system
It would clearly be in the notices etc they supposedly sent. There's always electronic records of things like that as they're not written manually by hand on paper :)
My best guess is they are using different databases. Remember that he said the system can automatically issue warrants. I think it was a computer glitch that happened and it issued 600 warrants on the same day for the same amount. It jumbled up all the info and sent out the warrant info, then sent an update to other databases that filed the warrant under the EIN number on record. The other database then recorded the warrant with the messed up address and the wrong EIN number.
Well the issue is that they used the temporary business address.
I'm betting that they use it as a filler address or auto populates because the first temp address in their system is that address and the system thinks it's all the same customer because of how the account is coded.
@@YunFuriku One of the most common errors I find in software systems is not recording history correctly. Older systems are particularly bad at this. These days, it's nothing to throw detailed logs of every action into a storage bucket. But even in the early 2000s bulk storage was relatively expensive and recording de-normalised data was frowned on.
I'd bet they won't have recorded what address something will have been sent to. They don't need to -- the address of the business is in the business record... This lack of duplicated is referred to as "normalising" data and it's almost a religion amongst certain kinds of software developers who ruthlessly pursue this sort of perfection without thought to the consequences in the name of "efficiency".
A lesson I pass on to developers is that if the sales tax (or VAT in Europe) rates change today, you still need to be able to faultless re-create an invoice from last week, with last week's tax rates correctly applied to it... and you can only do that by recording the historical data properly...
backspace key
This is my favorite arc of the Louis Rossman anime so far! Very exciting, constantly on the edge of my seat, great work NY!! Absolute content machines over there.
The screenplay they wrote for the NY is genious. You can never guess what's going to happen next!
Can't wait to see his final form!
ua-cam.com/video/QOrrNM4md8c/v-deo.html
The shame of this is that the amount of time needed to fix this at some point isn’t worth it. I am so glad you saw this through.
One item that really caught my attention was "Agent Smith" saying that other agencies could issue liens/warrants through his department. I think I'd try to get hard copies of the documents that were issued and begin to build the paper trail of the actual issuance of the lien and warrant.
I'd be hiring a lawyer that does government information work to do that. Governments are notorious for following any requests you make for information to the letter. A spelling mistake or incorrect terminology gives them grounds to skip documents. Or if you ask for "forms related to Rossman repair group", they'll only supply forms, not any emails or letters sent. They'll also skip over anything for "rosman repair group" or other misspellings.
And since they already know he's discovered an error they've made, they'll make it as hard as possible to get the correct information.
An individual or corporation can make a Freedom of Information request.
@@tin2001 Which IMO is a good thing. You ask garbage, you are given garbage. That's why sometimes I word my requests very specifically about some piece of information, while other times I word them broadly to contain things that I may be missing. I've been successful about both behaviors.
Exactly. And for that you go the courts, get the application, who made it, who signed off on it, ...
Freedom of information request should achieve this. I think this should easily fall under FOIA laws.
Freakin snakes!!!!! I can’t believe tax payers dollars are going to these organizations. You’re doing gods work Louis. This is nuts.
I can *SIP*
I can believe taxpayers' money is going to these government organizations, they need the money to run... but instead of going to useful things like the call centers and trainings, it's just going to the higher up's paychecks
@@danholli123 corporationa has corrupted the government so much it's sad
and you guys get mad when smart people pay low taxes
It's times like these where you look at the people who argue "taxation is theft" and you can't help but think "Maybe they're right."
You have no idea how confirming this is to those of us who have had similar experiences but blamed ourselves. THANK YOU.
So, how many separate management systems does NYS use for their internal affairs, and why are NONE of them linked to each other?
#Bureaucracy breeds incompetence.
Louis, reach out to several journalists and ask them to FOIA request New York state. In New York, this is called a FOIL request -- an alteration on the federal FOIA system. Give them the most specific information relevant to your issue with the databases, sheets, documents, or any information the NY government may have relating to your issue here. They can request for the information and hopefully get it soon which can lead to them putting out a story on the issue. It's a win-win for both you and journalists. Alternatively you can FOIL request too, but it may not be responded to as quickly, or it might be denied because journalists are taught really good etiquette on how to get what they need without pissing off officials.
To emphasize, NY states information on you -- to some degree -- SHOULD be publicly available. Thus, FOIL requests should work in this case. We're rooting for you. You can win this!!
afaik it doesn't just have to be the press, private citizens can make FOI requests too, ESPECIALLY if the documents have your name on them, as they can't deny them requests (at least where I am).
If it was a manual update, there should be an accompanying change request, e.g. hosting change.
Keeping in mind the department that uses the system is very likely not the same that maintains the system. Third party vendors are common.
@@DaftFader Yes! Anyone can make a FOIA request. Its just knowing how
@@NeddyTheNoodle Ahh I didn't see the "read more" button on you OP, you already said that at the end. 👍
Institute for Justice here. For a big lawsuit like this? They'd be really wanting to do this.
If we assume the PO BOX in Maine was not put as an address by accident. One could think these liens are all bogus and 400 x 1500$ sums up to a lot of money. Would be a shame if someone embezzled 600.000$ in taxes at the time and just made it look like 400 small businesses were behind in tax. 🤔
Would be interesting to see what the address is on the other liens and if this happened multiple times since then. 🤷
Yeah if someone has access to that system they could just take the checks and cash them under a fake company name and then delete the warrant from the system like it never even happened. The system just will look like an error was corrected and no money changed hands.
*LIENS
Watching Louis not speak while he monologues over the top makes me feel like I’m in his head.
The sad part is 400 people had this happen to them, and because of the liens, probably did not survive being shut down for the pandemic because they could not get help financially to stay solvent. THAT is why you need to contact everyone involved and see how this "minor Clerical error" has effected them in the long run! The real person you need to go after is the person that seeks to benefit from this "minor clerical error". The person that actually did this may have just been told "this is how this is done" and went along with it. It could have been someone higher up pulling the strings of a newbie.
or it's just plain incompetence.
@@sarowie no... it is not incompetence. Incompetence can be solved. This does not get solved even when you bring it up to them and question it, it only gets solved when you start fighting them... this is malicious. And they use people being willing to accept it as incompetence to keep getting getting by with it. These systems are designed so that people without the resources or will to fight against them have to take it laying down!
@@sarowie
Never attribute incompetence to that which is adequately explained by malice.
This same type of crap happens all over the place, all the time. If its incompetence, then its evidence that the government runs off of some kind of hive mind. Brushing this off as just a big ol "whoopsie" is exactly why it continues to happen. Stop giving the benefit of the doubt to the people that hold all the cards and can ruin peoples lives, call it an accident, and then walk away without any form of punishment.
My Guess it is a scam that happens every 2-3 years looking at the amount likely falls shy of automatic flagging systems to the point someone's been netting $450,000 per year when the scam has been run..
@@CD-vb9fi
👍 So Lawyers and Crony Capitalists can gatekeep, and take a piece of the action.
I wonder if Lewis can contact all of the businesses with false liens and sue?
He could be the face of an annoying class action add campaign for years to come. 😂
"I just woke up one day and decided I wanted to trash New York State" sounds like everyone working in government in new york
@@wanderer397 If you are dealing with the government, its kind of insane that you don't already.
@@wanderer397 Crowder?
You're a fu**ing BADGER, Louis. A badger. I can't tell you how much I've enjoyed watching you do this.
Go down the route there you found that list of 400 identical warrants and see if they are in the same boat. You might not have the ammo in terms of money, but maybe 400 businesses would?
Man, you better call Saul at this point 💀
Is he a lawyer? I have not seen the shows.
The wrong adress might have just been deleted and replaced in their system by "Pam" right after you talked to her, to prevent the mistake from happening again. I don't find that too suspicous to be honest. However, I find it hard to believe that "Mr. Gonzalez" wouldn't be able to find the digitalized/scanned documents that were sent to Maine. "Pam" apparently found at least three of them in the system, with the wrong adress written on them, while you were talking to her. Edit: At 07:01 "Mr. Gonzalez" is most definitely lying. He has the scanned document on his screen, sees the Maine adress when you ask him, then considers if he should lie or not (hence the short pause).
You’d think that but I work with people that talk like this. I’m not saying there’s no chance that he’s lying (I actually think he’s at least aware of shady shit like this) but that pause could have been a number of things.
It would be a pretty poor system that does not keep track of address changes. Admin side should show full change log, but I image normal users would at least see date of last change.
It's also why he "always starts with the actual address of the business"
darkseod did not pursue data. he pulled up “the file” and looked only as the front page summary he gets, i’m sure. harlons razor
Or he’s not actually looking I have to say all of us do this sometimes we have a preconceived idea of a problem and we answer our own questions. I work in prescribing for a Gp and people call and say there script isn’t at the pharmacy and I will usually just give the digital barcode from them to present at the pharmacy coz 99% the time that solves the issue. It’s only if they call back coz it’s not there that I’ll start opening prescriptions and checking the pharmacy address to see if they had them changed for a one off. Maybe that’s sort of what he did worked to his own bias. However his call wait lines are hours long and mines 5 min. So he should b trying a lot harder!!!!
I believe he said the majority of the filings were automated, that was at the 38:00 mark in the Final Boss video where he discusses the automatic process. Another thing he said (40:32 from the Final Boss video) was that other agencies can file under the State Tax Department's name, so it could be an entirely different agency that is responsible for the lien.
Just to play Devil's Advocate for Michael Ironside, after you had a conversation with the nice lady, that call was probably reviewed by a higher up who simply deleted the incriminating evidence from the database. Happens all the time. I used to be tasked with doing that myself. Not for the city, but for a corporation. If it is going to be a potential problem in the future, eliminate it. They used to call me the Information Hitman. These days, I'm reformed, living a quiet life as a humble monk.
I love that Louis now finds himself as the protagonist in a detective story. Stranger than fiction.
Based on what Gonzales said, this whole thing sounds like a scripting / database error. He pretty much said that some of their warrants are generated automatically based on some batch process they run periodically. The first mistake was the double account creation. Then, thanks to the double account, the automated script decided your business (and a bunch of other businesses that had double accounts for some reason) hadn't paid taxes. With no human intervention or review at all, the whole lot of you got defaulted and warranted as a group by the script.
Since there was a typo on the name of the business, I would bet on a database entry error when they go to create a new record. "Opps, I typoed the name of the business, let me just correct that" and the computer created a dummy account under slightly the wrong name with a jacked up address when the clerk went to correct the entry.
The whole bureaucratic system is to blame for this kind of thing. I doubt you'll get satisfaction if you sue them. I doubt any of the clerks will even get any useful cognizance that would prevent such errors happening in the future, because I doubt any of them question or take responsibility for the automation.
I personally suspect this was API mistake in testing/development, a suprise database change during the use of a good API or faulty user input during an API use.
Agreed here, there's a phone call with Louis where someone mentioned when his business was created it was assigned a temporary ID. I think it could be possible all of those businesses received that same ID for whatever reason.
Question is what happened to tonns of recipient mismatch notifications from postal service?
one problem:
"based on what Gonzales said"
I always feel like this type of ridiculous bureaucratic incompetence is in part caused by budget mismanagement.
Seems like they spend the absolute minimum to keep the wheels turning so that more is left over to line their pockets.
Louis id recommend if you get in contact the other businesss that are in this situation help them record these types calls then ban together send that to a great lawyer all of yours and their calls. Also you should make a series of exposing how shady these people are .
I feel like you should call back the previous department with the two helpful people that informed you about the Maine address and have them triple check that the information is correct. This will also confirm they can still see the records of the 3 notices going there so that you can with 100% confidence disprove budget Michael Ironside's claims.
As a former call center worker I can tell you this: on my computer the system didn't work 10-30% of the time and the procedures were not very straightforward to understand. I was not paid enough to stay there and be a good employee. So I quit. Before I quit tho I did not put much effort into the job. So very likely that the entire call center has their elevator broken
Edit I should clarify that I have not worked for NYC or in NYC
I would recommend filing a complaint with the NYS Offices of the Inspector General on top of your legal action. Legal may not impact the actual offices you dealt with, but my experiences with IG audits have driven change to the system. Good luck with any route you take; thanks again for sharing these calls.
As someone with Asperger's, I recognize an all-encompassing passion to correct injustice. When a company hurts me I shine light on their abuses and if I can't get justice, I aim to inflict 10 times the losses on them. I'm not talking about doing something criminal, you are attempting something similar by making sure NYC gets zero new taxes from you.
The villain was just the perfect touch, touché sir.
This is currently my favorite series on UA-cam. Thank you Louis for continuing to fight the man. Also, glad to have you in Texas.
Thank you for the welcome!
@@rossmanngroup Not sure if you read any of my comments here.
I think the nice supervisor lady is the problem, I suspect she *edited* the wrong address instead of adding a new current one, as was the procedure according to Mr. Gonzales.
That's why the evidence (wrong address) vanished from the system.
The only way to prove it now would be to find the actual paper correspondence sent, bounced back and probably archived somewhere in storage...
@@68MalKontent That wouldn't make sense in the case of which address those mailings were sent to - since they would all be separate records. Hands-down it's Terminator-from-Wish that's either personally responsible or at very least their department at fault.
@@Crystan Well, this would be true if their system was designed for full transparency, backtracking of every event and employee accountability.
I bet it wasn't.
Believe me, I've been working 25 years with various business and administration software and I've seen it all.
It's enough if the system records the event like sending a notice, but does *not* record all the then-current header data with it, like the address, the person name etc., instead linking the event to the current contact records.
I've seen sales systems that didn't record the name, address, bank account number etc with an invoice, so when you pulled a historical invoice from the system and printed, it contained the *current* contact data instead of the ones that were originally on the printed invoice, say, 5 years ago.
They may have a *procedure* to add new subsequent addresses when they change, but:
1) It's only a human-dependent procedure, and if someone has system rights to edit the record then it defies the purpose
2) It might just be for one purpose, like printing address labels, and is not used throughout the system to record events that involve sending something to a specific address.
@@Crystan Remember, none of those people claimed that they can see the original notices sent to that stupid PO box. They said they see a mailing address for this particular purpose to be the Maine PO box.
The nice lady asked if it was the right one, and Louis told her it's not, and *never was* correct.
So in her mind it wasn't a case of address *change* but a completely wrong one needing correcting.
I think the evil sounding dude indeed couldn't see any previous mailing address record, because the lady so eagerly corrected it to be Louis' current Texas address.
That Darkseid intro
i liked it too lmao
The mailing address being a postal box sounds like an identity theft situation.
When Louis said he could sell his Business', just in a ditch effort to take them to court regardless of the outcome:
Gave serious Heath Ledger; Joker' "It's not about the Money, It's about sending a message" Vibes.
I love this individual for the type of individual he is.
I guarantee this is the tip of the iceberg. Once you start pulling the string on this you’re going to find a lot more. Would love to see you expose and hold them accountable. They’re awful.
Just my 2 cents coming from a few undergrad law classes: In order to proceed with a chance of winning a case against them, you would need to be able to prove that harm had been caused to you or the business as a result of their error. Due to them canceling the warrant/lein, this would more than likely be determined to be a positive outcome for you with no ill effects. You could of course argue that their error in the past had resulted in your business not being able to secure funding (a loan) but being able to prove that beyond a shadow of a doubt isn't feasible or likely. You're absolutely right that it's messed up that this occurred and they should be held accountable, but I wouldn't suggest sacrificing your business over it. I know that it's unlikely that anything ever changes if everyone follows this path, but unfortunately the law and meaningful change is built on the backs of those who suffer greatest at the hand of societies inequities.
isnt having a lein attatched to a business going to effect its potential partners clientele and growth through loans as you mentioned? even more so a warrant?
"beyond a shadow of a doubt" even murder trials don't require that level of certainty. I don't know the threshold required here or if he could meet it, but it surely would be much lower than you implied, wouldn't it?
@@johnmiller2905 You need to be able to quantify your loss though. That's what S4nari is driving at - and I agree with him. People are all steamed up about this, and with good reason, but the court is far more pragmatic about it. They will not award damages unless you can prove your losses. If it's at all vague or speculative, you're in trouble. I would advise Louis to move on from this as well. Sometimes you gotta walk away and preserve what you have in life.
@@johnmiller2905 this would most likely be a civil suit against the state. Even if standard would normally be "reasonable doubt", I think you need it higher if not for the shear amount of corruption.
All of those rejections for financing his growing business very likely constitute harm.
Thank you for publishing this crazy sarga, it's fascinating watching train wreck. And there are lessons in this for many of us
Hi Louis, afters years of dealing with TLC and the state department as a business owner I moved to TX.
You should contact The Institute for Justice and see if they would help you look into this and maybe find out why so many other business has the same warrant at the same price. This way you could avoid having to sell your business.
I suggested the very same thing in one of the earlier videos. Institute for Justice does some good work.
You don't necessarily need to sue them, you may be able to get a good resolution by contacting the state Office of Inspector General. Their whole job is to investigate waste, abuse, and fraud. These government offices shiver at the thought of an OIG investigation.
Attorney General too!!!
i was going to suggest calling ali express ironside's department again to talk to someone else, but then i remembered him saying that he's going to put a note about your conversation in the system. i assume he wrote something like, 'if this person calls again, don't mention anything about the PO box 123 address.'
What a train wreck. This definitely needs some media attention or, alternatively, legal action 🧑🏻⚖️
😂 I would have never guessed that was a real person. I think New York is starting to use chatgpt for government rolls.
I got treated horribly by NYS DTF. It was like they delighted in wrecking my life. At one point the agent I was talking to put his phone down and ranted to his boss for several minutes about how he "always gets the good ones." Didn't even bother to put me on hold.
All I was trying to do was get a payoff balance for my taxes.
Theory: have all the other businesses you found with the same lien also been "receiving" the mail in the same PO box?
I just love the daily uploads and insight into the situation, I'll probably never go through this, but you can learn from anything, especially from how bureaucracy works
10:40 I am dying over here. I am sorry to laugh at your misery but you have incredible comedic timing. I am fondly reminded of your commentary over Jay's video card repair from like 3 years ago. It had me in stitches. Don't ever change and whatever you decide to do we'll be here for it.
edit: If you do decide to try and sue start a gofundme or similar I'll be happy to toss a little cash in that pool.
I fail to see the comedic timing you mention.
That face right there is one of the worst faces a human being can have.
I can literally hear his soul crying and dissolving in the putrid hate of that bureaucrat guy's words.
He is hurting inside so much, that is not comedic at all.
This is why i try to find where the comedic timing is at that time stamp? So much for you to die of laughter.
Same. We should absolutely crowd fund the suing of NY state. Then maybe just go state to state because something smells pretty foul in this country right about now and it's pretty obvious our taxes aren't going to helping the citizens - their going in the pockets of politicians or being sent overseas to be laundered to then go back to the pocket of politicians.
Louis's face at the start of this video, while you hear a typing keyboard, sums up this entire series.
If there's that many people who have a similar warrant on the same day, then you may be able to start a class action lawsuit or something against the department through a law firm and not have to pay as much; if anything. This would likely get attention in the media and those affected would have a chance to have their errors corrected, maybe even some compensation for damages; just an idea.
Maybe submit a "Freedom of Information Act" request for everything with both your business name and that address. Specifically calling out that phone call with the woman (as evidence that they are associated somehow) where she read you that address as proof that it's not imaginary. As is often the case, the coverup is worse than the crime. Light them up!
This adventure through nine circles of bureaucratic hell aside, it's hilarious to me how absolutely massive that chair is and how it just swallows and embraces Louis whole. That thing looks as comfy as it comes. But yeah, I'm 100% invested in this now, so that happened.
I think one of his cats destroyed part of the chair.
@@robertjenkins6132 Oh my god it looks like you're right. O:
Call Pam and Ino again, they sound like good people and maybe they'll send you copies of the records. Edit: Actually, call them back so they can recheck the info they gave you initially, so you can verify that it hasn't been tampered with.
07:50 Moreover, at the time she was telling you that PO box address, she didn't know yet that it's wrong, until you told her. So she was looking up the address in good faith. Meanwhile, the final boss already knew about the mistake, so either he tried to cover it up by pretending that there's no trace of it, or there's really no trace of it anymore because whoever made that "mistake" already cleaned up all the evidence now after the jig is up.
Darkseid: You dare challenge me? Insanity.
I love the animation!!!!! How fitting!!!! And how convenient to be able to create our own clips… I do wish I had saved a collection of the funniest things that I have seen over the years.
Can you get someone else in Gonzalez's department to look into this to see if Gonzalez was lying while he was looking at the files? Perhaps Gonzalez was saying what he had to say to get rid of you...
What days does Gonzalez have off, thats the day to call.
Louis could have said "it's *different false address* right?" Potentially catching the guy in a lie.
It's likely all the people in that office are the same kind of crook as Gonzales. I don't think speaking to anyone else would yield different results.
Just call every day until you get someone that doesn’t sound like darkseid
Been watching since you had like 30k subs i met you at the hope conference glad to see you making great content and exposing ny states bs.
Hey Louis. If the NY state govt allows you to make a request for information under a freedom of information (FOI) process (or similar), it may be possible to request paper records. No doubt it might be a slow process, but could be worth looking into. I wish you the best of luck 👍.
Louis, you are doing an amazing job. There is something not right here and you need to consider legal action. Oh…. And don’t sell your business. A lot of people will crowd fund for your case.
We need to look into that database. If it's 400 people for that day alone, we should check to see how many other clusters of identical warrants for the same amount are listed
And how many else went to falsified addresses.
Darksied syncing 🤣, there is potential in that voice for bringing animated characters to life.
There is another possibility. When they realized they sent out a bunch of bogus warrants, they could have had IT go into the database and simply delete all of the records that contains that address, as they were obviously associated with the wrong accounts. So, he could have been telling the truth, since it is possible for an administrator to directly modify the database. From his perspective, that address was never part of your account, since all evidence of it was already deleted in the system.
I've been sending all the letters I want to hide to that address in Maine for years.
I've been listing this P.O. Box in Maine as my address when setting up offshore tax sheltered accounts for years.
Me too! Man, thats weird.
On one hand, I’ve worked in a U.S. call center for 14 years and can understand how new employees may not be great at handling complex problems. On the other hand, this never should have happened with any state entity with respectable systems. Been following you for nearly a decade and hope all comes out well
I gotta say, I was a file clerk at a hospital university for 11 years; the worst mistake I ever made was to send a patient letter to the address I was given 3 times in a row. It want to the wrong doctor's office 3 times; and they reported me and I heard about it. But it didn't make the office I worked for look too good, now did it?
I agree with your assessment of discount Michael Ironside. Especially as you can hear a hesitation in his voice when he's first looking at the address issue. But, to play Devil's Advocate, I wonder if it is possible that this is a departmental database left hand/right hand disconnect?
CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT. Have the lawyer(s) do work to find the others issued illegal warrants.
Yes!
Yep. He needs to get those other 400 people involved if they weee also done over
more like class action molotov cocktails
Good luck finding a class with large enough damages to make it worth a law firm's time. The class consists of people who don't know they have a lien against their business or rather those who didn't know and it is still within the statute of limitation if there is indeed a valid claim.
The fact that it's 400 means that a system was scanning the database for mised tax returns at that time so 400 got the same warrant the same fine for the same offense
Now these could still be a problem if all of them are for temporary tax IDs that should have been merged
The fine for not paying taxes isn't just the late fee it's also the amount of taxes owed plus interest. That is not going to be identical across 400 different businesses
@@donovandelozier7156 no the fee can't be the amount of taxes owed because they would need a tax return to determine the amount of taxes owed. That's how I understand it i mean how would they set a amount for tax if they have no idea about the financials of the business expenses income etc.
@Felix Buchheit they don't need your tax return to determine how much taxes you owe. They already know how much you owe, they just play games with it because of lobbying from companies like h&r block who rake in big bucks every tax season. That's why it is actually hard to pull off not paying taxes (see al capone getting imprisoned on not paying income tax based on income from his criminal enterprises, they couldn't prove what he did but they proved he earned money he didn't report)
That dude really did miss his true calling: as a villainous voice actor.
Hanlon's Razor, man. ("Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.")
I'd bet that somewhere along the line someone fucked up, and that's what caused notices to be mailed to the wrong place, but weird psychopath voice warrants dude just has nothing in "his system" that shows the "alternate mailing address" of Maine that got used for the notifications.
I'd bet $100 that NY's systems are all janky as hell and what one employee sees in department A is not necessarily what department B can see, and vice versa.
Family Dollar lied to me, they were supposed to give me training and eventually a replacement. I was a holding GM with no training because everyone quit above me and people below me needed a leader. I broke my back and they accused me of stealing, and when I quit, they replacement stole money to buy a car.
Cool story. How does this relate at all?
I worked at a Dollar General for about 9-10 months during the pandemic, and believe me, I know wtf you went through. They pushed me to be a key holder almost immediately and wanted me to do nightly accounting for them while training new employees and do security watching everybody and their mom stealing from that store, I never worked retail of any kind in my whole life leading up to that point. I only wanted a part-time job of 20-30hr a week doing stocking. They tried hitting me with 50-60hrs after 2 months because NOBODY wanted to work. I stopped that real quick. Needless to say, I quit shortly after that, and not 2 weeks after I quit, the manager got fired for stealing a bank drop.
Discount Michael Ironside...😂
Mistakes happen, I get that. Someone screwed up their SQL coding or something, it happens. BUT since this is life altering and a business closing type of response HOLD THEM ACCOUNTABLE!!!! Mistakes happen, but you ABSOLUTELY MUST own up to them, and correct them. Those with authority (to affect your business/life/freedom/income) should be held to a higher standard.
Huh! TIL Michael Ironside voiced Darkseid.
I only previously knew of his role as Sam Fisher (speaking of someone doing shady stuff in secrecy!).