I knew a kid who did this when we played basketball at lunch when I was a kid. It was the same thing, they laughed till he never missed a shot. Then half the kids were doing the granny shot. 😅😂
This is why I can't watch basketball and can't care about it as a sport. After I learned about this a few years ago I stopped watching or following any games.
@@msh3l518 I stopped watching because I couldn't stand the idea that my home teams were leaving points on the table because they thought it looked uncool. I hate that sort of thing.
I remember a Modern Family episode where Jay gets mocked for using that shot even though he was a basketball star in his school days and was very succesful with the shot. It's crazy how the mockery of such a shot is so steeped into culture that nearly all players refuse to use it even if though it has been proven to be more effective. Then again, basketball is the one sport where players have the luxury of turning down a technicque that might give them an extra point or two in a game due to how high scoring the game is. A missed free throw doesn't have nearly the same impact as say a missed penalty.
@@EEEEEEEEjust why. Why do you leave an "E" everywhere. It's gotta be to make people ask questions but I still haven't figured it out. This isn't even the first handful of videos I've seen this on. 1. It's basically spam. 2. It's contributing nothing 3. Even if you say it's for the Algo, I don't think it works like that 😂
It's not about ego. Using your proper form at the line is about establishing the proper rhythm for the rest of the game. If you use grannies your FT% will go up but the rest of your shooting percentage will take a hit. And it's the rest of the shots that matter more.
@@wolfgangfegelein2450 , that's just an excuse to not use it. You would need a lot more data to support that claim (because we don't have any instances of someone using the granny shot for multiple seasons and using the typical shot for multiple seasons to compare their FG% and FT% and see if there is any correlation).
I'd like to give a speedrunning analogy. In Super Mario 64, the final fight requires you to hit three very precise inputs just a few seconds apart from each other, while doing difficult controller inputs. Bowser throws are easily one of the most infamous run killers of all time, being quite difficult right at the end of a run and losing several seconds if you miss one of them. There's something you can do in order to make them much more consistent. You can pause buffer them. Basically, spam pause so the game advances in smaller, discrete chunks, allowing you to more easily recognize when the right time to throw is. Sure, it looks bad, and it loses a marginal amount of time, but for the sake of consistency it can be very good to do if you struggle with them. However, the shame of missing a bowser throw despite pause buffering is very great. I think the same applies with these basketball throws. Land 100% of your free throw shots with the granny shot and no one will mock you, because if it works then it works. But every time you miss a free throw despite doing the dumb looking shot which is supposed to be more consistent, it will be easily one of the worst feelings you can have.
There's literally a Wikipedia article about how bad his free throw shooting was, and how it became a viable strategy to deliberately send him to the line -- look up Hack-a-Shaq.
@@HaydenSchiff 1. If I know enough to call Shaq Shaq I probably know enough to know what Hack-a-Shack is. 2. My point, though not super-well made, was that (I interpreted) the graphic's purpose was to highlight "Elite Scorers that, despite how good they were, didn't supersede the free-throwing ability of this man's college career, therefore clearly the man was on to something.". Shaq's FTP does not highlight that argument.
In free throws it is also very important to consider what happens if you miss. After >60% of free throws the teams fight for the ball, with the opposing team having their players considerably closer to the basket. The underhand shot leaves very little momentum to be transfered back after the shot (in case of a miss), giving the opposing team the ball much more often.
@@lorenzosotroppofigo1641 Maybe you misunderstood? The point was that in cases where you don't score, the opposing team is more likely to get the ball in case underhand throw than overhand throw. (Disclaimer: I don't know if this is true or how much it matters if true. I'm just explaining what OP was saying.)
So then we have to ask ourselves, does the advantage gained from an increased potential to get the ball outweigh the increased chance to get a point? Given that getting the ball really just resets things back to prior to the foul occurring, is that big of an enough advantage that 99%% of players to make the same conclusion? I doubt that there was any consideration at all. Rather I think the main reason people forgo it is to protect their brand. You won't be in the NBA forever and you've dedicated your entire life to basketball, you have no other marketable skills and unless you're in the all-star team you will have to consider finances after it's over. You have to build and develop a brand to sell, the granny shot hurts this.
The only good real reason I can think of is that if every other shot is going to be overhand, it might feel better maintaining the muscle memory. Like they'll think it will screw up the one or two shots they take after the free throws.
That logic doesn’t hold up. Every other shot is not overhand. They shoot layups, no? Hooks? Floaters? Finger rolls? They can learn one more shot to add to their arsenal.
You are on to something. Many coaches and most importantly, players have said that it can help them out by seeing the ball go in the hoop, especially if having a bad shooting start to the game. Confidence is very important in sports. Same with a layup or dunk, just because it's a different shot doesn't necessarily make it irrelevant. Add to it the rise in 3 pt shooting and good free throw form is even more beneficial as the more consistent you can be with aligning your shoulder, elbow and hand the better chance to be successful and that comes with practice and repetition, which can be done overhand at.... the free throw line.
None of the players who have transitioned from one to the other have seen their FG% diminish though. Granted, we don't have that many data points because only a handful of players did it, but for the few that we do know, their FT% increased without any impact whatsoever to their FG%. I see that you do say "they'll think it'll screw up" rather than "it will screw up" which is maybe the caveat you could argue. They might feel that way, but the evidence available clearly shows making more free throws with this method doesn't affect your play anywhere else.
Rick Barry literally did it in the NBA and won and a championship, shooting overhand on jumpshots and underhand on free throws, so I don't know why anybody would use that as an excuse.
I think what's funny about the overhead shot is that in my school in the early 2000s it looked kinda "gay" because of how your hand bends. So we actually preferred the underhand throw because it looked cooler.
Basketball player and specifically shooting specialist here: underhanded free throws make the most sense for players who do not already have a good jumpshot. If you already have a good jump shot then practicing a completely different skill for your free throws is an energy and time suck compared to shooting your normal shot. If you use the same form for both, shooting free throws is shooting practice and shooting practice is free throw practice. So basically it's just a lot easier to not use a completely different set of muscle memory to shoot one specific shot.
So, not to start a fight, but that sounds like cope. If, as a chess player, you're solid with openings, but you suck at K&P endgames, you don't keep jamming opening puzzles, you focus on bringing your deficiencies up to par. Like, I hate the Sicilian when I'm playing white, so I just play the Smith-Morra gambit every time and sidestep learning 15 different variations of the goddamn Sicilian. But if I wanted to be a world-class chess player (and assuming I actually had the skills, which I don't), I'd have to fix that deficient part of my game. Smith Morra is fine for casual games with my friends, but it's too weak an opening to play consistently at an FM, IM, or GM level.
No that's not an apt metaphor. If you actively suck at shooting all around, then I agree it's fine to totally tear everything down and shoot underhanded. But there's an opportunity cost, if you're already a good shooter, and have other holes in your game, you're going to improve free throws more for less effort in the short term by just shooting free throws normally. Building up a totally new skill from scratch takes a lot more time than building on an existing one, and with that extra time you could work on your defense, passing, handle, etc. which will improve your game a lot more than shooting 5-10% better from the line a year or two in the future. I think it makes the most sense for centers where the situation is kinda flipped on its head. The level you need to get to with dribbling or shooting to actually have them be useful in game as a big is way more time and effort than improving free throws by shooting underhanded.
@@michaeltorrisi7289 I totally get what you're saying. "You focus on bringing your deficiencies up to par", right? Let's take that idea and see where it goes. Suppose you're good at overhand shooting from around the free throw line, not so good at defense or underhand. What am I going to practice *today*? I'm probably better off spending my time today getting pretty good at defense. Maybe my passing game isn't as good as some of my teammates. Maybe I get the ball stolen from me more than the average NBA player. Maybe I have a temper and get penalized a lot. Which skill should I focus on this week? It's quite likely the best answer is not "you should spend that time getting really good at underhand in order to increase your FG% by 2%". If I already have a decent free throw, I'm likely better off practicing an area of the game where I'm weaker.
@@michaeltorrisi7289 Those players practice and master their shooting forms, basketball is way more different than chess as you implement moves in chess, it translates to "court iq". Shooting overhand is very wrong as aiming is much harder than the traditional form, and lastly cardio in proffesional basketball or normal pickup games is very demanding (when taking the game seriously). Lastly their sets of moves (translates to the openings you mentioned) are very consistent with their 3 pointers up to their jump shots do have the same shooting form just a different variation of the move
@@michaeltorrisi7289terrible analogy, and I would have thought that as a chess player, you’d at least have looked up the fundamental difference between the two games, and the difference between physical and mental ability when it comes to sports. Chess is a game of intellectual skill rather than any physical skill. The key difference is that in games of physical skill, muscle memory in addition to physical ability is what makes a player good. The best players are good not just because they are peak athletes, but because they have honed their bodies and muscles to “remember” certain movements. Doing the same thing over and over again in sports is to build that muscle memory on how to do it correctly, and training a completely different movement for the same thing would actually hinder progress, because your body now has to unlearn the prior muscle memory.
I went to Rick Barry Basketball Camp when I was 11 years old and was taught the Granny Shot by The Man himself. It worked fairly well, but was not as comfortable as using a "regular" shot. You really needed to commit to practicing it a LOT in order to get comfortable at all, which most 11 year olds won't do, so I never used it in a non-camp game, including during my fairly mediocre 4 year high school basketball career.
The gains from practicing the granny shot on free throws are swamped by the losses to accuracy on standard shots from the field. Practicing free throws with standard form improves accuracy from the field. Since field shots score at least 84 points a game vs 17 for free throws (last NBA regular season), and free throw accuracy is already pretty good, it doesn't take much field loss to make the granny shot practice a net loss. This past season NBA players made .784 of 21.7 free throws. Improving to .9 would add 2.5 points. They made .474 of 88.9 field goals. If the time diverted from standard shooting to practice the granny shot reduces their standard shooting accuracy by .025 the points from the field lost equal the points gained practicing the granny shot. That ignores the three point shot, which would make the field losses still worse. The granny shot is a winner for anyone shooting a lot of frees badly, especially if they don't take many standard shots to begin with -- Shaq and Wilt. For most players the granny shot is a poor use of time.
Interesting. Do you have evidence that practising underhand reduces overall accuracy? I can’t for the life of me see why it would considering the two types of shots are so different that I don’t know how one could give a bad habit to the other. Plus they are already so different and that you never ever have a non-pressure shot in any other situation in the game so it’s a totally different animal. That’s pure speculation though. I would love to see evidence on either side of this.
@@jasondashney I think it's less a matter of one practice (underhand) reducing accuracy of the other technique, but rather that practice time is finite, and so doing more of "X" comes with an opportunity cost, resulting in less time doing "Y". So if you allocate time for practicing the underhand shot for free throws, players will have less time spent practicing the standard shot. Obviously the underhand shot technique is almost completely unviable from the field, because it would get blocked. I'm not saying I necessarily agree with Gordon's argument, but that is how I understand it. Gordon may or may not be correct; I don't know either way.
@@jasondashney I think you miss the point. It's not that underhand technique will make your FG% worse. But it won't help it in any way. Overhand technique uses similar bio-mechanics for FT's and FG's. So training this way will improve both. How much it will help is up to debate.
Training overhand throws train your normal shooting game as well. Training underhand throws only train that particular shooting style impractical for the other parts of the game.
Pro ball players egos are too massive for that shot, but those fine margins could be very important in close games. Tbh I think shooting 50% when you are a professional is much more embarassing 🤷♂
I expect that it's more related to familiarity compared to the way normal shots are taken versus an entirely new approach that feels entirely uncomfortable.
Based on what we know, someone who can shoot overhand at 60% and above gets a pass. Bad free throw shooters ought to stick to the granny shot--earn their stripes.
Thing is that the granny shot is unusable in all other situations since you have a defender on you. Practicing exclusively for free throws makes a lot of sense if you are a professional players, but doesn't for children so you don't. By the time you probably should old habits die hard. And it isn't socially acceptable currently.
You could have just said "I don't know what I'm talking about". And it would have gotten the same point across. Overhand free throws are different then overhand shots in the paint
@@darbstre2900 You could have just told us you were an arrogant dick, without demonstrating it. Shooting ability is significantly more transferable between overhand shots and overhand throws, than it would be between an underhand throw and overhand shot. Overhand shots are still overhand shots.
@@darbstre2900 But they use essentially the same technique. Of course people practice free throws and shots in the paint and three-pointers and layups and dunks, etc. But Most shots resemble the overhand shot very closely and don't resemble the underhand shot at all. So practicing underhand free throws effectively makes you practice an extra type of shot, whereas practicing overhand free throws supports your practice for other overhand shots. So when you are a kid with a limited time to practice, it makes sense to focus on the overhand shot.
@@darbstre2900 The funny thing is, you're the one who just exposed yourself for not knowing what you're talking about. Using your jumpshot form at the line establishes the proper rhythm you need for the rest of the game. The granny shot is useless off of the line.
Reminds me of the "noob guns" or "COD guns" in Counter Strike, the AUG and the SG, they were overpowered for years but pro's and even mid-high rank players wouldn't touch them because it was seen as a mark of shame. That's until one team adopted them and started destroying everyone lol.
I like how curry isn’t mentioned almost at all. He’s the greatest free throw shooter of all time, and uses a normal(ish) jumpshot. And while his career percentage is only slightly higher than Barry’s, he has had the single most efficient ft season and almost gets better at the line every year.
The counterpoint to this argument is that if you use a similar free throw shot to your three-point and mid-range shots, you're practicing that technique more. Kobe's free throw was similar to his famous corner of the key shot. If you have two wildly different shots in your arsenal, you're spending time practicing your granny shot when you could be improving the classic beef
Just FYI: Brent Barry, one of Rick's non-Canyon sons, went to Oregon State. He also shot free throws underhanded in college (at least for periods of time). When he reached the NBA, he switched to shooting overhanded and never looked back.
7:52 You NEED TO start running your stats by someone with more expertise. The idea of doing this as a t-test at all is a little odd. Would be better to do something like a binomial-based test or a Chi-square test. But running this as _unpaired_ is very weird. The data is structured in sets of ten shots. That provides an obvious pairing structure. If Amy got better at shooting over time within technique, the pairing would factor that out. Please start checking your stats.
different skill curves I guess. Same problem in some video games, some builds / techniques are "optimal" but hard to play initially. Some are easy to start with and better for beginniners, but have a lower ceiling
In soccer, high penalty shots increase the likelihood of a goal, but also of shooting over the goal, leading to mockery. So soccer players often prefer to shoot low and into the hands of the goalie.
If you're even a passable shooter, having something close enough to your regular jump shot is be the better idea. You have to practice a TON to get either shot to above 80% so if you have a reliable jump shot, overhand is probably more economical while having similar results. Rick Barry (like a lot of players at the time) was a subpar jump shooter at best, so it made sense for him.
Only thing is that basketball players shoot free throws very infrequently compared to a normal shot in game. So they might as well use the same motion for it
Golfers only use a driver about 10-15 times per round but it's worth learning a new technique for it. If they tried to swing with the same technique as an iron it would be disastrous. This is essentially the same.
Actually it might be better for them to use a different motion for free throws because it would create a better sense of flow for them during free throw shooting. Flow can be affected by a lot of things such as unique situations like free throws. Using a different motion would be a great signal for the brain to enter this state of flow which could eliminate the need for ritualistic behavior before shooting and allowing more time to focus one shot. This could also be another reason why those who shoot under headed do better. They have an easier time entering a state of flow for free throws. All in all, the brain is weird.
This is the least thought out comment I have seen in a while. The only thing your comment shows is that you are extremely resistant to change regardless of information.
I thought pros would have different technique for different situations to maximize success. I guess I was wrong, the player's convenience comes first, huh?
Issue with this is that you have to learn 2 forms of shooting which is inefficient! This style only works at the free throw line because in real game situations, that’s getting stolen or blocked! The regular over head jump shot works from every spot in the halfcourt! Aka, you only have to master 1 form of shooting !
Yeah what is this dude talking about 🤣😭😭😭 The whole point for free throws to real basketball players is to warm up for shots in game . Using a form as close as possible …. But I guess you’d have to actually play basketball to get it . And not just make videos about math like that’s the only factor in a real game .
I get why perimeter players don't use it. They're usually good at FT already and it's their natural shooting motion. All the centers that are not jump shooters however, are just losing points for their team.
That's one of my favorite things about sports that are primarily solo, like golf, disc golf, tennis, etc. You get such a wide array of styles because the ridicule that you do get is so easily shrugged off if you perform better with a given strategy, regardless of how common or normal it is. Just look at how many weird things people will try in golf to shave strokes off their score, its almost like the opposite effect
I think part of the issue is that the underhand free throw shot does not mimic a regular shot. It's a completely different motion and this is not used in any other context of the game, so it seems weird. It is a more effective shooting method for free throws, but you are putting time into muscle memory that does not translate to improving your other shots in the game. Every time we take a shot in basketball, our muscle memory is affected, even missed shots, which is why bad habits can be hard to fix. So, it is possible that the overhand free throw shot is more effective for a person's overall game, because it is working to improve other aspects of shooting, which just slightly decreasing free throw shot percentage.
Amy's free throw percentages should be 18% and 14% not 0.18% and 0.14% Percentages are total number/100 so if she put 18 free throws in 100 tries then percentage is 18%
Canyon is NOT the only Barry to adopt that style. While he did abandon it when he went to Oregon State, I used to watch him at De La Salle High School and he shot his free throws underhand
The granny shot is completely different from a layup, so it might be easier to learn both a layup and a 'clean shot' at the same time. And practicing shots for game time is easier for most if it is the same, so they don't have to train 2 different shots
One reason against it, is becaue the movement is so different from normal throwing. Overhand free shot and normal throw are pretty similar. So training for one is training for the other. While this technique might improve your free throws, it might make your overall throwing game worse.
from my perspective, it's probably good to stick with your regular shooting form. FT reps during a game can put a player in rythim for when they attempt a jump shot. If a player isn't known for shooting jumshots like Gobert or Shaq, it probably couldn't hurt to use the granny shot as it wouldn't be throwing off their regular shot......
It’s worth considering that any time spent practicing the granny shot is time not spent practicing the overhand. Since the overhand technique is far more versatile for the game as a whole and, ultimately, free throws are really only helpful on the margins, it may make more sense from an overall performance standpoint to focus on the overhand shot for all around improvement even if you aren’t optimizing specifically for free throws.
Good shooters are good shooters because they repeat their shooting motion close to perfectly every time. Those good shooters also happen to be good free throw shooters more often than not. One of the many reasons is that the most common warm up shooting drill includes free throws. Free throws allow a shooter to get into their rhythm. The form holds weight for terrible shooters, but the better the shooter, the worse underhand would be comparatively. For someone like Shaq or Wilt, 90% of their shots come from within 5 ft. They rarely shoot, so when they practice free throws that's the only practice shooting that they do. That's also why they would benefit more from it. A more easily repeatable shooting motion for someone who doesn't shoot during a game is beneficial. However, the same effect can be gained by developing a jumpshot. Blake Griffin is a good example. His FT percentage jumped almost 10% once he started shooting jumpshots during games. My hypothesis for if Steph Curry used the underhand shooting form is that his shooting percentage AND free throw percentage would go down instead of up. Because now he's training 2 separate motions.
That diagram at 4:20 to 4:25 sums up nicely what ive been saying about football (soccer to yanks). Basically you want the ball to curl such that it heads towards the goal perpendicular to it. The goal is therefore bigger relative to the ball. This is why I think a perfect 2 striker pairing has a left footed player on the right, and right footed on the left. When they shoot at goal, the natural curve of the flight of the ball gives a higher goal to ball trajectory ratio. This kind of logic can also apply to taking corners, which should always be outswingers, whixb is the opposite of what they normally try. This makes it easier for attackers to strike the ball accurately and harder for defenders. ...I should be a football manager
This doesn't take into account the psychological effects of a made free throw on basketball players. Good shooters can get warm and activate their muscle memory after being cold with just a couple free throws. If they switch to granny, this benefit would not exist anymore. Also, people train the other way their hole life for shots that aren't just free throws, so maybe granny would be better to learn when you're first starting, but also probably not because it's a whole different question when you take into account experience. The normal shot allows you to practice free throws whenever you take any shot rather than having to exclusively practice free throws all the time and it also helps good players get hot in game. So, that's why players don't switch to the granny apart from that it looks weird. I would argue that for most players a normal shot is objectively better simply for the two facts I mentioned.
Worth mentioning for a future correction video: the size of computer paper in the US is different from the size of computer paper in the rest of the world. 215.9 mm (8.5 in) in the US vs 210 mm (8.27 in) in the rest of the world.
I'm pretty sure they're aware that A4 is different from Letter. Ultimately a 3mm difference on each side of the ball is awfully trivial. Letter size is also used in Canada, all of Central America except Honduras, several countries in South America and the Caribbean, and the Philippines. So, it's inaccurate to say A4 is used "in the rest of the world".
1:19 I love how the bg here implies that Sam's outside correspondent Amy is an automaton of some kind that can be programmed with code to learn basketball
I am curious about the psychology of the under handed shot. I would proposed that entering a state of flow would be easier for those player using the under handed shot because it allows the player to design a specific satte of flow for a specific outcome. This should be more efficient than another player who has to use other ritualistic behavior to enter their state of flow for shooting free thows. Furthermore, by making such a distinct motion for free throws only separate from the other motion of shooting in games this should create better neuroplasticity which in theory should make them a better basketball player. I wonder if you made an entire team do it, would you see a group effects like interperaojal relationship increase.
You're close to getting why players use their proper form instead of the granny shot. It is about entering a state of flow, but you enter that state of flow by using your proper form, because that's what translates to the rest of the game. Granny shots do nothing for the flow of the entire game. I can't count the number of games I've seen where a bad shooting start gets reversed at the line, and that's only happening if you're using your jumpshot form.
@@wolfgangfegelein2450 , you can't count the number of games where that happened, but you also can't count the number of games where that didn't happen. You are cherry-picking data in an attempt to support your argument.
@@SgtSupaman If I were cherry-picking I'd be relying on rare occurrences. I can't count them because it's a COMMON occurrence. You're never going to understand that if you stick to your data sheets. It's a very shallow way of going through life.
@@wolfgangfegelein2450 Actually a state of flow would be easier to enter by having a divergent movement for a unique situations like free throws. It would be the same reasons why athletes use ritualistic behavior before free throws. Using a different motion should in theory make it easier to enter and exit that flow state because it will make your brain more able to recognize the change of flow state. I am also talking about flow in terms of psychology and not in terms of movement. Flow is the rhythmic movement of the brain and muscles to do some type of action without the usage or very limited usage of the conscious mind. A good example of a flow state is when you are driving and you just began to go through the motions with your body and before you know it, you arrive at your destination. Flow states also can lead to mistakes when you cannot distinguish from them such as when you take the route to work instead of the route to school. The more similar the routes are two on another the more likely the routes will cause you to enter the wrong state of flow. If we apply this to basketball, using a different shooting technique should minimize problems with entering the wrong state of flow. Free throws have a different environment than the regular basketball game. You are able to be calm and think. Incorrectly using the wrong state of flow could lead to someone having more adrenaline spikes which could lead to more misses. This is why a lot of players do something with the ball before shooting it. It allows them to reset their flow state. I am proposing that it is easier to enter a different state of flow if you use a different shooting technique because it is less likely that your brain will be confused and use the wrong flow state.
@@tauntingeveryone7208 You're still not getting it, because you're focusing too much on the psychology. I'm talking about finding your physical rhythm. You do that by using your jumpshot technique because it is how you maintain/reestablish your rhythm for the rest of the game. The rituals accomplish the psychological flow without throwing you out of rhythm for the rest of the game.
As a Gators basketball fan this was a fun trip down memory lane. Guess we have Canyon Barry’s granny shot, in part, to thank for our legendary buzzer beater win in the Sweet 16 round against Wisconsin in 2017.
The narrative that Wilt only shot fts underhanded in his 3rd season is false, he shot free throws underhanded for more than just one season, including some of his worst ft shooting seasons. [Various clips of him shooting underhanded free throws in this video of the 1967 finals](ua-cam.com/video/7yffDCHu4X0/v-deo.htmlsi=NjDADczAJlkwYp1q). At 28:20 for example
Yes and no. The thing is for the one season he consistently shot underhanded. The other seasons he didn't. What you're pointing at is video of some exceptions. The championship was being fought for, you're in game 4 in a very tight game that could be won or lost over a handful of missed free throws, and you know your shooting percentage is much better underhanded. He just swallowed his pride in this situation because sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do to win, so he did. It was not like he shot underhanded throughout the season.
@@thefelix7767 I'll have to ask for a source on that, you're telling me he was willing to swallow his pride multiple times and then suddenly his pride was too big at other times?
Going to point this out: On the night that Wilt made 28 of 32 and scored 100, the rims in Hersey, Pennsylvania were so soft and forgiving that the ball's velocity basically died with the shock absorption of hitting the rim.
Honestly, you probably wouldn't really see many results from practicing a different style of free-throws. It might help some people, it might hinder others, but overall the value would be pretty neutral. The cost to this though would potentially be a reduced quality of shooting elsewhere on the court. I guess it comes down to your philosophy in sports coaching. Do you want your players to focus on general skill that can be appropriated towards a large portion of the game, or do you want your players to focus on specific scenarios and train around those. Personally I'd go more towards the general skill stuff. Even if overhead free throws are marginally worse, I think using basically the same shooting form as you try to elsewhere on the court has more benefit.
there is also the one handed jump shot. One of the best PG in Europe with that style was Greek-American John Korfas with high percentage in FT too (79/84 his best year).
The main reason most people do free throws normally is because it shows confidence in your form, it also allows you to get heated up to it during a game if you haven’t been able to put up a shot
Thank you , you can use your free throw form in a real game when you shoot above your head. Nobody is letting you get a granny shot mid game ,…. So really dude has no clue just made a video for click bait
Once in gym class, I found a technique for 3 pointers Hold the ball firmly with both hand, holding behind your head, and arc your arms over your head and release while keeping your body straight and arms ridged (your upper arms shouldn’t move much, just your elbow straightening out) Done right, the ball has no sideways variance since your arms are acting as a rail, the motion also allows you to get more force compared to a normal throw since you are starting from behind Not sure how it’s work in a pro game, since it’s not really something you can do fast, and other players could knock out the ball on the wind up
As a very good shooter who used to spend 2 hours a day practicing every kind of shot imaginable, the underhand free throw and sky hook are both insanely difficult. The reason Rick Barry could do it was because he's Rick f'n Barry a guy who led the NCAA, ABA, and NBA in scoring. I've seen this argument about underhanded free throws endlessly. Every serious basketball player has tried it out while practicing; if it were better they would do it. Wilt is an anomaly. He may have been the most athletic person to have ever lived. It would have been difficult for him to not accidentally throw the ball 10 rows into the stands by using 1% more of his strength than he intended on a free throw. For him a slow rocking motion would be easier to control than a wrist flick. Additionally practicing free-throws underhanded takes time away from shooting overhanded and there are only so many hours in the day. Most high-level athletes are already practicing as much as is physically possible. Finally, you also need to warn people ahead of time if you're going to show stock footage of people who have never touched a basketball pretending to shoot. Imagine being forced to listen to someone that's never held a bow before attempting to play the violin. It's a freaking hate crime against basketball players!
You might have looked at it, but there’s a Dutch sport called korfball which shares a lot of similarities to basketball. The penalty technique used is exactly what you recommend, might be worth having a look into and analysing
One of our clients has a hoop attached to a wall behind their warehouse for employees. The owner started a few years ago a Friday Free Throw shooting contest at lunch to decide who gets to leave early. The 62yr old little Latino lady has won a couple of them shooting rick Barry style. She can barely lift her arms over her head but she often beats men way more athletic than her in FT. Ive tried it since and honestly, im much better underhand. I just constantly get the ball in the middle and when i miss its either too far or too short, never left or right.
2 FUN FACTS- Steph Curry has ZERO and I mean not a one full season where his FT% was UNDER 88.3%. Not a one. His release angle is 56* which is the secret. FUN FACT 2- Two NBA sized basketballs can go through the hoop at the same time.
2nd fact is wrong, maybe the combined area of the balls is less than net area, but 2 balls still cannot fit. Rims are 18in and balls are slightly above 9in.
HAI wasn't claiming that the underhand free throw dude had the best free throw percentage in history of basketball. He was making the point that a lot of very famous basketball players had worse percentages than this basically unknown college level player. I (non-American, not-a-basketball-fan) have never heard of Steph Curry, but I _have_ heard of Shaquille O'Neal, so it seems fair to assume one is much more famous than the other, and thus deserved his spot on the table.
@@whydoineedanameiwillneverp7790 Steph Curry is the best three point shooter in nba history. I of course don’t expect you to know that, but I assume he is well known around the people that know the some basketball. I could say Steph and Shaq are the same in fame, but it just depends on who you ask. It isn’t far Shaq is criticized on his lack of shooting when it wasn’t his style, plus the era he was. But it isn’t your fault you don’t know.
The real reason for not using the granny shot is that it only works for free throws. For the rest of the game, the players must shoot standard and all their training is focused on the standard shot. Practicing the other style, only usable in a very particular situation, would eat out the time to practice the normal style, usable in all situations.
The running joke that Amy, the outside correspondent, needs to do all the dirty legwork always felt quite funny. Meanwhile, the writer of the script is this all powerful being who can be free to decide what Sam says. But yeah, turns out if you google Amy, her main job of the profile is “script writer for HAI”… In hindsight it’s pretty obvious. Of course it’s the writer who’s doing the research that needs to go outside and do those things. But yeah, feels a bit funny.
@@Anonymous-df8it Well, the narrator… narrates. As in, being a good narrator at telling a story, being convincing, having a lot of stats in charm, etc. It’s a different skill set from being able to do quick research and summarize all the information needed into a short episode. Also, the narrator needs to work on Wendover Production episodes too. Which are likely not written by Amy but a different team. HAI episodes also likely have more than Any being the only writer. Amy also likely writes for other projects that aren’t HAI too.
@@akirachisaka9997 But Sam only needs to read aloud for the length of the video (or slightly longer in the event of an error), but the writer needs to do research for days, so it seems a bit unfair to me
also worth consideration: all other shots taken from the field are taken using the overhand technique, so using the overhand technique for free throws is consistent with the rest of a player’s game. training the underhand technique for free throws would mean that the player would have to master two different shooting styles.
Ehhhh not so sure about this one. The reason *most* players will never go granny isn't some issue of vanity or fear of being unorthodox, it's a matter of learning curve and a poor cost/benefit ratio. The set-shot free-throws that most players use today are built on very similar mechanics to the jump shots that they shoot often and have muscle memory built up for - which helps ensure consistency when shooting. The granny shot is an unfamiliar movement for basketball players who most often are forced to shoot over or around other players, which the granny shot is not suited for at all. For most players, when they get to the point where their free throw shooting is scrutinized, they have played enough basketball to have a huge amount of experience with their overhand shot. At that point, if they are struggling, they can either choose to tweak something that they already have the basic mechanics down very well and/or try and address a mental block, or they can start from square one with the granny shot and bet on seeing consistent enough improvement over time that they eventually surpass their original baseline. For guys whose job security is incredibly tenuous, they can't spare a period of bad free throw shooting while they learn another shooting method. It could be a literal million-dollar difference if they can't be trusted to make free throws when on the floor. In that light, wouldn't you try and make a small change to what you already use to determine what the problem is, instead of throwing away all those hours to be worse at a slightly easier method?
@@mikea5745 If you and the other dude played ball, you'd realize that the reason you use your jumpshot form is because it keeps you in rhythm during the entire game. If you're having an off night, you go to the line to establish your rhythm and correct your game. You can only do that by using your jumpshot form. The granny form HURTS your rhythm for the rest of the game, because it's an entirely different motion using an entirely different set of muscles, hence, a different muscle memory. Learn to think for yourselves instead of blindly believing what you see in a youtube video. The entire premise is invalid because the dude who made this video is looking at free throws in a vacuum, and not as a smaller aspect of a bigger game.
You know what's funny? I've always had issues with my free throws, and at one point attempted the underhand form for a few months. It DID NOT work, in fact, it massively hurt my percentage so much more. I've never once had any issues or feelings toward/about/against it. It is absolutely tacky, but who cares. All that matters is if you're comfortable and most importantly - that is works for you. My current form and routine lacks ANY dribbles. And has improved finally to around 66%. lol. Believe it or not, that is genuine good improvement. Last year at this time I think I was around 50-55%. So uhh... yeah. I'm rapidly closing in on 70% now though, thankfully. It feels good to finally after so many years see rapid notable progress. Steve Nash is the best person to learn from to shoot them better by the way. Dude literally has a video and a program out to teach everyone step by step (no hand-licking required lol). I've watched the video, however that was a few years ago and I didn't watch it with intent to learn or focus on it to learn, ironically. If I actually used it to further improve my percentages, I'd probably see a much more notable improvement. Oh well. lol.
Ah yes The Sakuragi Hanamichi shots. Also those who complained about look when doing the shots doesn't care about their team at all. You rather let your team lose than having your fragile ego hurts???
I think it makes sense for centers that never shoot outside the paint anyways, but for other players, practicing overhand free throws is also practice for half of the other shots they take
It's not about vanity. It's about staying in/establishing the proper rhythm for the rest of the game. Smart players use the free throws to get into rhythm and recover from bad starts. You're not going to get that if you're using a different form at the line, and it's the rest of the game that matters more anyway.
I think that the other variable that people overlook here is that doing an overhand freehand throw is more practice for during game shots. Like you're not gonna do an underhand while someone can defend it unless it's a layup.
Yes! A Chi-square or some test based on a binomial distribution. And even if they chose the t-test, it definitely should have been a _paired_ test, but a unpaired test, since they seem to have done the data in trials of 10 shots, and Amy could have improved over the span of the experiment. The stats on here try hard and keep being incorrect, hahaha.
Ok so after leaving my snide remark about Steph Curry after watching 20 seconds and seeing the thumbnail and knowing where this going, and subsequently after watching the whole video, here is all the context you missed: When it comes to these kinds of free throws, they are only really even considered for people who really just can't shoot normal shots at all. One of the things you got right in this video was your jab at Gobert, as he cannot shoot at all, but your issue is just simply that most basketball players are indeed good at shooting a basketball normally. The vast vast vast majority of NBA players can shoot, and the way the NBA is trending, those who cannot shoot at all are a bit of a dying breed. No one thinks that if you are an 82% free throw shooter overhand, your percentage would be improved by going to underhand. The next issue is actually more of a practical one. There are only so many hours in the day for training. One of the biggest factors that determines how good of a shooter you are is how many lifetime shots you have taken (disregarding chucking, I'm talking about shooting drill type stuff). These shots NEED to be overhand to get over defenses. I would block the living hell out of someone who tried to shoot granny through defense and laugh while scoring the fast break the other way. In your video, you frame a free throw as chaotic biomechanically, and it is compared to granny, but compared to a normal jump shot, a free throw is the one with much of the chaos eliminated. Because of this, shooting free throws is an excellent method or working on the consistency of your jump shot, as you can drill in that motion into your muscle memory with perfect form, which then helps you in the flash of the moment when you take an off balance jump shot because the defense slipped for just a moment and you need to take advantage of the opportunity given. If I am constantly training granny free throws, which I would have to do, I then have to replace that work on my jump shot with something else, which might even be practicing over hand free throws anyway. If I don't replace those shots, I end up as a worse shooter. Shooting granny does not at all help your jump shot.
You are literally the one other guy in this comments section who actually gets it. Everyone else watched this dumpster fire of a video and thinks they're an expert now.
@@internetguy7319 this sacrifices your skill in the overhand shot, which makes you worse as a player. You can’t just train more either, there is lots of biomedical science behind that. Overtraining is a thing.
@@internetguy7319 How is being limited to 24 hours in a day a skill issue? You literally only have so much time to practice and you still have to eat, sleep, do taxes, etc with some of those hours.
NPR did a great story about this some years ago. It's a shame Shaq did not adopt it, many of his games might have turned out differently and stopped the rather shameful Hack-a-Shaq offense.
@@Waldohasaskit210 The Tim Duncan era San Antonio Spurs prove you wrong. They're the most "boring" team I can remember, but their fans loved them because they won. It's the out of market fans and the casuals who didn't care.
Funfact: In Winner Stays animation called The Last Game, for Nike (ad for 2014 Soccer Men’s World Cup) we have a opportunity to see in a TV the “perfect Lebron” (a clone version of Lebron) using the granny shot free throw, it’s a small detail but Nike knew what they are doing.
From my point of view, the lower trajectory angle gives to player more chances to hit the front of the rim then bounce off into the glass and go in. Same thing happens if he's/she's a little bit of axis. Try slightly miss a shot hitting the rim with 65 degree angle and look where the ball is going.
Field shooters should avoid this technique since it would disrupt the flow of their game. On the other hand, this would be perfect for lane drivers that don't take many shots from the field. Not only does it not disrupt their game, but compliments it since they pull the most penalties from defenders.
I can confirm, I’ve done the Granny shot, I was mocked, but when all I got was net; then folks quit it real fast.
I knew a kid who did this when we played basketball at lunch when I was a kid. It was the same thing, they laughed till he never missed a shot. Then half the kids were doing the granny shot. 😅😂
We used to call it a potty shot and it was ridiculed accordingly.
This is why I can't watch basketball and can't care about it as a sport. After I learned about this a few years ago I stopped watching or following any games.
@@teachingthecode4651you stopped watching basketball because professional players didn’t shoot free throws the way you wanted? LMAO
@@msh3l518 I stopped watching because I couldn't stand the idea that my home teams were leaving points on the table because they thought it looked uncool. I hate that sort of thing.
these videos are getting dangerously close to three-quarters as interesting
inflation probably
@@JoeJaJoeJoe i was already laughing, then I read your reply. Well done, I have become un-alived from laughter 😂😂
If he does an Ice Hockey video, he’d be 2/3rds as interesting.
@@joermnyc3/4 > 2/3 though lol
@@arkhalis3682 gradual steps
I remember a Modern Family episode where Jay gets mocked for using that shot even though he was a basketball star in his school days and was very succesful with the shot. It's crazy how the mockery of such a shot is so steeped into culture that nearly all players refuse to use it even if though it has been proven to be more effective.
Then again, basketball is the one sport where players have the luxury of turning down a technicque that might give them an extra point or two in a game due to how high scoring the game is. A missed free throw doesn't have nearly the same impact as say a missed penalty.
E
do you know what episode this is exactly? i'm obsessed with modern family yet this doesn't sound familiar to me
@@EEEEEEEEjust why. Why do you leave an "E" everywhere.
It's gotta be to make people ask questions but I still haven't figured it out. This isn't even the first handful of videos I've seen this on.
1. It's basically spam.
2. It's contributing nothing
3. Even if you say it's for the Algo, I don't think it works like that 😂
E
@@anyatwomingoThis sounds wrong to me, Jay was a football star not s basketball star
Their ego wouldn't allow it
Ok. I'm sure they gay voice dork creating the video is more correct than professional basketball players.
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It's not about ego. Using your proper form at the line is about establishing the proper rhythm for the rest of the game. If you use grannies your FT% will go up but the rest of your shooting percentage will take a hit. And it's the rest of the shots that matter more.
I don’t blame them. Image is important for brand deals and jersey sales.
@@wolfgangfegelein2450 , that's just an excuse to not use it. You would need a lot more data to support that claim (because we don't have any instances of someone using the granny shot for multiple seasons and using the typical shot for multiple seasons to compare their FG% and FT% and see if there is any correlation).
Feature your outside correspondent in a jet lag season!!
She cameos in Seasons 7 and 8!
Would be cool as a guest too tho
Why would you put an outside correspondent in a game that mostly takes place outside? That makes no sense!
@@teelo12000 Half as sense?
@@danstratyt A Wendover episode all about Outside Correspondent Amy
I'd like to give a speedrunning analogy. In Super Mario 64, the final fight requires you to hit three very precise inputs just a few seconds apart from each other, while doing difficult controller inputs. Bowser throws are easily one of the most infamous run killers of all time, being quite difficult right at the end of a run and losing several seconds if you miss one of them. There's something you can do in order to make them much more consistent. You can pause buffer them. Basically, spam pause so the game advances in smaller, discrete chunks, allowing you to more easily recognize when the right time to throw is. Sure, it looks bad, and it loses a marginal amount of time, but for the sake of consistency it can be very good to do if you struggle with them.
However, the shame of missing a bowser throw despite pause buffering is very great. I think the same applies with these basketball throws. Land 100% of your free throw shots with the granny shot and no one will mock you, because if it works then it works. But every time you miss a free throw despite doing the dumb looking shot which is supposed to be more consistent, it will be easily one of the worst feelings you can have.
E
"playing on easy and failing" vs "playing on hard and making it."
Is pause buffering not banned for SM64? I've seen strats like that get banned for speed running for SMB
@@BSAnime depends if it’s glitch or glitch less
@@BSAnime nope, not banned
Shaq being on the "best free throw percentage" graphic is a bit of a crime.
There's literally a Wikipedia article about how bad his free throw shooting was, and how it became a viable strategy to deliberately send him to the line -- look up Hack-a-Shaq.
@@HaydenSchiff 1. If I know enough to call Shaq Shaq I probably know enough to know what Hack-a-Shack is. 2. My point, though not super-well made, was that (I interpreted) the graphic's purpose was to highlight "Elite Scorers that, despite how good they were, didn't supersede the free-throwing ability of this man's college career, therefore clearly the man was on to something.". Shaq's FTP does not highlight that argument.
@@JamminTrev Yes, I'm agreeing with you, and adding details for anyone else who hadn't heard of it.
@@HaydenSchiffI didn't know that, so thanks for adding that detail 👍
@@JamminTrev Well I know Shaq is Shaq and idk any of that other stuff/have ever watched a basketball game before
In free throws it is also very important to consider what happens if you miss. After >60% of free throws the teams fight for the ball, with the opposing team having their players considerably closer to the basket. The underhand shot leaves very little momentum to be transfered back after the shot (in case of a miss), giving the opposing team the ball much more often.
I mean it kinda doesn't matter.
If you score they get the ball but not for that it's bad to score
But you're more likely to actually get a score
I don't think which type of throw you do influences what happens after it? so how does it matter for this video?
@@lorenzosotroppofigo1641 Maybe you misunderstood? The point was that in cases where you don't score, the opposing team is more likely to get the ball in case underhand throw than overhand throw. (Disclaimer: I don't know if this is true or how much it matters if true. I'm just explaining what OP was saying.)
So then we have to ask ourselves, does the advantage gained from an increased potential to get the ball outweigh the increased chance to get a point? Given that getting the ball really just resets things back to prior to the foul occurring, is that big of an enough advantage that 99%% of players to make the same conclusion?
I doubt that there was any consideration at all. Rather I think the main reason people forgo it is to protect their brand. You won't be in the NBA forever and you've dedicated your entire life to basketball, you have no other marketable skills and unless you're in the all-star team you will have to consider finances after it's over. You have to build and develop a brand to sell, the granny shot hurts this.
Imagine having 100% on FT in the NBA finals with the granny shot lmaooo 😭😭
Why? Would that be a problem?
@@maremike2691calm down it was just a joke
I don't know if Rich ever managed that.
But he was good enough that he might have if he ever made the Finals in the first place with his team.
@@lachlanchester8142What indicated to you that they weren't calm already?
@@lachlanchester8142So asking a simple question is being not "calm"? Wut
The only good real reason I can think of is that if every other shot is going to be overhand, it might feel better maintaining the muscle memory. Like they'll think it will screw up the one or two shots they take after the free throws.
That logic doesn’t hold up. Every other shot is not overhand. They shoot layups, no? Hooks? Floaters? Finger rolls? They can learn one more shot to add to their arsenal.
You are on to something. Many coaches and most importantly, players have said that it can help them out by seeing the ball go in the hoop, especially if having a bad shooting start to the game. Confidence is very important in sports. Same with a layup or dunk, just because it's a different shot doesn't necessarily make it irrelevant. Add to it the rise in 3 pt shooting and good free throw form is even more beneficial as the more consistent you can be with aligning your shoulder, elbow and hand the better chance to be successful and that comes with practice and repetition, which can be done overhand at.... the free throw line.
None of the players who have transitioned from one to the other have seen their FG% diminish though. Granted, we don't have that many data points because only a handful of players did it, but for the few that we do know, their FT% increased without any impact whatsoever to their FG%. I see that you do say "they'll think it'll screw up" rather than "it will screw up" which is maybe the caveat you could argue. They might feel that way, but the evidence available clearly shows making more free throws with this method doesn't affect your play anywhere else.
Rick Barry literally did it in the NBA and won and a championship, shooting overhand on jumpshots and underhand on free throws, so I don't know why anybody would use that as an excuse.
Better check down under…they hit the backboard first and bank it in.
Noble prize candidate Amy for making a difference in people's lives
Amy's shadow looks awefully similar to Sam's. Hmm...
*Nobel
*Nobel, and you can only be a prize nominee, not a candidate. I suggest learning what words mean, before using them
@@darkless60it’s obvious, Amy is just past Sam so her shadow looks like Sam’s, just like how Anakin’s shadow looks like Darth Vader
Nobel
I think what's funny about the overhead shot is that in my school in the early 2000s it looked kinda "gay" because of how your hand bends.
So we actually preferred the underhand throw because it looked cooler.
This is the most 00s story
It's called the "follow through" and no clue where u get the whole "gay" idea from
@@dill6827 bending your hand down like in a free throw is a gay symbol
lmao why is this so accurate XD fuck I'm glad we've moved on from the 90's and 00's lmao
@@dill6827 Welcome to early 2000s logic lmao, it really doesn't make much sense in hindsight but back then every little thing could be classed as gay
Basketball player and specifically shooting specialist here: underhanded free throws make the most sense for players who do not already have a good jumpshot. If you already have a good jump shot then practicing a completely different skill for your free throws is an energy and time suck compared to shooting your normal shot. If you use the same form for both, shooting free throws is shooting practice and shooting practice is free throw practice. So basically it's just a lot easier to not use a completely different set of muscle memory to shoot one specific shot.
So, not to start a fight, but that sounds like cope.
If, as a chess player, you're solid with openings, but you suck at K&P endgames, you don't keep jamming opening puzzles, you focus on bringing your deficiencies up to par. Like, I hate the Sicilian when I'm playing white, so I just play the Smith-Morra gambit every time and sidestep learning 15 different variations of the goddamn Sicilian. But if I wanted to be a world-class chess player (and assuming I actually had the skills, which I don't), I'd have to fix that deficient part of my game. Smith Morra is fine for casual games with my friends, but it's too weak an opening to play consistently at an FM, IM, or GM level.
No that's not an apt metaphor. If you actively suck at shooting all around, then I agree it's fine to totally tear everything down and shoot underhanded. But there's an opportunity cost, if you're already a good shooter, and have other holes in your game, you're going to improve free throws more for less effort in the short term by just shooting free throws normally. Building up a totally new skill from scratch takes a lot more time than building on an existing one, and with that extra time you could work on your defense, passing, handle, etc. which will improve your game a lot more than shooting 5-10% better from the line a year or two in the future. I think it makes the most sense for centers where the situation is kinda flipped on its head. The level you need to get to with dribbling or shooting to actually have them be useful in game as a big is way more time and effort than improving free throws by shooting underhanded.
@@michaeltorrisi7289
I totally get what you're saying. "You focus on bringing your deficiencies up to par", right? Let's take that idea and see where it goes. Suppose you're good at overhand shooting from around the free throw line, not so good at defense or underhand. What am I going to practice *today*?
I'm probably better off spending my time today getting pretty good at defense.
Maybe my passing game isn't as good as some of my teammates. Maybe I get the ball stolen from me more than the average NBA player. Maybe I have a temper and get penalized a lot. Which skill should I focus on this week?
It's quite likely the best answer is not "you should spend that time getting really good at underhand in order to increase your FG% by 2%". If I already have a decent free throw, I'm likely better off practicing an area of the game where I'm weaker.
@@michaeltorrisi7289 Those players practice and master their shooting forms, basketball is way more different than chess as you implement moves in chess, it translates to "court iq". Shooting overhand is very wrong as aiming is much harder than the traditional form, and lastly cardio in proffesional basketball or normal pickup games is very demanding (when taking the game seriously). Lastly their sets of moves (translates to the openings you mentioned) are very consistent with their 3 pointers up to their jump shots do have the same shooting form just a different variation of the move
@@michaeltorrisi7289terrible analogy, and I would have thought that as a chess player, you’d at least have looked up the fundamental difference between the two games, and the difference between physical and mental ability when it comes to sports.
Chess is a game of intellectual skill rather than any physical skill. The key difference is that in games of physical skill, muscle memory in addition to physical ability is what makes a player good. The best players are good not just because they are peak athletes, but because they have honed their bodies and muscles to “remember” certain movements. Doing the same thing over and over again in sports is to build that muscle memory on how to do it correctly, and training a completely different movement for the same thing would actually hinder progress, because your body now has to unlearn the prior muscle memory.
I went to Rick Barry Basketball Camp when I was 11 years old and was taught the Granny Shot by The Man himself. It worked fairly well, but was not as comfortable as using a "regular" shot. You really needed to commit to practicing it a LOT in order to get comfortable at all, which most 11 year olds won't do, so I never used it in a non-camp game, including during my fairly mediocre 4 year high school basketball career.
Here we take teams by shooting free throw so i used that often 😂
The gains from practicing the granny shot on free throws are swamped by the losses to accuracy on standard shots from the field.
Practicing free throws with standard form improves accuracy from the field. Since field shots score at least 84 points a game vs 17 for free throws (last NBA regular season), and free throw accuracy is already pretty good, it doesn't take much field loss to make the granny shot practice a net loss.
This past season NBA players made .784 of 21.7 free throws. Improving to .9 would add 2.5 points. They made .474 of 88.9 field goals. If the time diverted from standard shooting to practice the granny shot reduces their standard shooting accuracy by .025 the points from the field lost equal the points gained practicing the granny shot.
That ignores the three point shot, which would make the field losses still worse.
The granny shot is a winner for anyone shooting a lot of frees badly, especially if they don't take many standard shots to begin with -- Shaq and Wilt. For most players the granny shot is a poor use of time.
Thank you he should have asked for a ball players opinion
@@harryli5979 In fairness this is their lazy ez content channel, not their well produced one where they definitely would have asked a topical expert
Interesting. Do you have evidence that practising underhand reduces overall accuracy? I can’t for the life of me see why it would considering the two types of shots are so different that I don’t know how one could give a bad habit to the other. Plus they are already so different and that you never ever have a non-pressure shot in any other situation in the game so it’s a totally different animal. That’s pure speculation though. I would love to see evidence on either side of this.
@@jasondashney I think it's less a matter of one practice (underhand) reducing accuracy of the other technique, but rather that practice time is finite, and so doing more of "X" comes with an opportunity cost, resulting in less time doing "Y". So if you allocate time for practicing the underhand shot for free throws, players will have less time spent practicing the standard shot. Obviously the underhand shot technique is almost completely unviable from the field, because it would get blocked.
I'm not saying I necessarily agree with Gordon's argument, but that is how I understand it. Gordon may or may not be correct; I don't know either way.
@@jasondashney I think you miss the point. It's not that underhand technique will make your FG% worse. But it won't help it in any way.
Overhand technique uses similar bio-mechanics for FT's and FG's. So training this way will improve both.
How much it will help is up to debate.
Training overhand throws train your normal shooting game as well.
Training underhand throws only train that particular shooting style impractical for the other parts of the game.
Yeah, but I take underhanded 3's all the time 🙃
The outside correspondant parts adds a lot of value to HAI videos.
Thanks for all the hard work Amy !
Amy's shadow looks awefully similar to Sam's. Hmm...
agreed!
Pro ball players egos are too massive for that shot, but those fine margins could be very important in close games. Tbh I think shooting 50% when you are a professional is much more embarassing 🤷♂
Ehhh it likely wouldn’t improve their shot. They’d have needed to be shooting this way from the beginning
I expect that it's more related to familiarity compared to the way normal shots are taken versus an entirely new approach that feels entirely uncomfortable.
@david chamberlain improved like 10% in 1 year
Giannis catching strays for no reason😂
Based on what we know, someone who can shoot overhand at 60% and above gets a pass. Bad free throw shooters ought to stick to the granny shot--earn their stripes.
Thing is that the granny shot is unusable in all other situations since you have a defender on you. Practicing exclusively for free throws makes a lot of sense if you are a professional players, but doesn't for children so you don't. By the time you probably should old habits die hard. And it isn't socially acceptable currently.
You could have just said "I don't know what I'm talking about". And it would have gotten the same point across. Overhand free throws are different then overhand shots in the paint
@@darbstre2900 You could have just told us you were an arrogant dick, without demonstrating it. Shooting ability is significantly more transferable between overhand shots and overhand throws, than it would be between an underhand throw and overhand shot. Overhand shots are still overhand shots.
@@darbstre2900 But they use essentially the same technique. Of course people practice free throws and shots in the paint and three-pointers and layups and dunks, etc. But Most shots resemble the overhand shot very closely and don't resemble the underhand shot at all. So practicing underhand free throws effectively makes you practice an extra type of shot, whereas practicing overhand free throws supports your practice for other overhand shots. So when you are a kid with a limited time to practice, it makes sense to focus on the overhand shot.
It's more consistent for people that have shot hundreds of thousands of shots to shoot free throws the same way
@@darbstre2900 The funny thing is, you're the one who just exposed yourself for not knowing what you're talking about. Using your jumpshot form at the line establishes the proper rhythm you need for the rest of the game. The granny shot is useless off of the line.
5:50 Didn't expect to see Rudy Gobert get roasted by Sam from Half as Interesting, but I'm all for it!
Reminds me of the "noob guns" or "COD guns" in Counter Strike, the AUG and the SG, they were overpowered for years but pro's and even mid-high rank players wouldn't touch them because it was seen as a mark of shame. That's until one team adopted them and started destroying everyone lol.
not sure if it was really out of shame or because it didnt occur to them. Habit can be a huge factor, even for pros.
I like how curry isn’t mentioned almost at all. He’s the greatest free throw shooter of all time, and uses a normal(ish) jumpshot. And while his career percentage is only slightly higher than Barry’s, he has had the single most efficient ft season and almost gets better at the line every year.
The counterpoint to this argument is that if you use a similar free throw shot to your three-point and mid-range shots, you're practicing that technique more.
Kobe's free throw was similar to his famous corner of the key shot.
If you have two wildly different shots in your arsenal, you're spending time practicing your granny shot when you could be improving the classic beef
Because Curry/Nash are great shooters? For not so great shooters, using the better style is better, not questions asked.
He is literally a unicorn, he is not normal
Curry might have a 99% if he used this technique lmaooo
@aceus84 remember, Steph is a rhythm shooter. He needs to stay in form to get his shooting hot. Free throws are low risk ways to do that.
Just FYI: Brent Barry, one of Rick's non-Canyon sons, went to Oregon State. He also shot free throws underhanded in college (at least for periods of time). When he reached the NBA, he switched to shooting overhanded and never looked back.
Soooo Hey Arnold was right
Rick Barry was a stubborn man. That played to his success.
He's still alive lmao
@@thecannonball34maybe he's no longer stubborn.
@@ikengaspirit3063 Too stubborn to die
The table at 6:10 is wrong, Rick Barry had a career .8931 ft% and is beaten out by 7 other players, not just 3
This is including ABA data
7:52 You NEED TO start running your stats by someone with more expertise. The idea of doing this as a t-test at all is a little odd. Would be better to do something like a binomial-based test or a Chi-square test. But running this as _unpaired_ is very weird. The data is structured in sets of ten shots. That provides an obvious pairing structure. If Amy got better at shooting over time within technique, the pairing would factor that out. Please start checking your stats.
4:12 Americans will use anything BUT the metric system
Ts had me crying 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
different skill curves I guess. Same problem in some video games, some builds / techniques are "optimal" but hard to play initially. Some are easy to start with and better for beginniners, but have a lower ceiling
A problem with the granny - you can’t really shoot the way during gameplay. So you’d have to have two separate shooting mechanics instead of one
You don’t shoot like that all the time, there’s passing, layups, finger rolls, there’s a lot more just Google the different shooting techniques
I had great reverse granny shots with my back towards the hoop. Also we called it "Bucket shot".
In soccer, high penalty shots increase the likelihood of a goal, but also of shooting over the goal, leading to mockery. So soccer players often prefer to shoot low and into the hands of the goalie.
As a pharmacy student listening about the unpaired t-test gave me so much trauma
If you're even a passable shooter, having something close enough to your regular jump shot is be the better idea. You have to practice a TON to get either shot to above 80% so if you have a reliable jump shot, overhand is probably more economical while having similar results. Rick Barry (like a lot of players at the time) was a subpar jump shooter at best, so it made sense for him.
Only thing is that basketball players shoot free throws very infrequently compared to a normal shot in game. So they might as well use the same motion for it
Golfers only use a driver about 10-15 times per round but it's worth learning a new technique for it. If they tried to swing with the same technique as an iron it would be disastrous. This is essentially the same.
Actually it might be better for them to use a different motion for free throws because it would create a better sense of flow for them during free throw shooting. Flow can be affected by a lot of things such as unique situations like free throws. Using a different motion would be a great signal for the brain to enter this state of flow which could eliminate the need for ritualistic behavior before shooting and allowing more time to focus one shot. This could also be another reason why those who shoot under headed do better. They have an easier time entering a state of flow for free throws. All in all, the brain is weird.
Wrong
This is the least thought out comment I have seen in a while. The only thing your comment shows is that you are extremely resistant to change regardless of information.
I thought pros would have different technique for different situations to maximize success. I guess I was wrong, the player's convenience comes first, huh?
Basketball players have shown that the best shot is not worth learning if it isn't cool. This is also why sky hook is a lost art now.
As the great Red Auerbach once said "Whether you shoot overhand or underhand, the most important thing is you make it"!!!
Issue with this is that you have to learn 2 forms of shooting which is inefficient! This style only works at the free throw line because in real game situations, that’s getting stolen or blocked! The regular over head jump shot works from every spot in the halfcourt! Aka, you only have to master 1 form of shooting !
I would love to see the video about how HaI team comes up with the video ideas!
Steph Curry 91% career free throw percentage has entered the chat
Yeah what is this dude talking about 🤣😭😭😭
The whole point for free throws to real basketball players is to warm up for shots in game . Using a form as close as possible …. But I guess you’d have to actually play basketball to get it . And not just make videos about math like that’s the only factor in a real game .
I get why perimeter players don't use it. They're usually good at FT already and it's their natural shooting motion. All the centers that are not jump shooters however, are just losing points for their team.
That's one of my favorite things about sports that are primarily solo, like golf, disc golf, tennis, etc. You get such a wide array of styles because the ridicule that you do get is so easily shrugged off if you perform better with a given strategy, regardless of how common or normal it is. Just look at how many weird things people will try in golf to shave strokes off their score, its almost like the opposite effect
This needs to be on the next Jet Lag season as a challenge or something
That would be awesome!
I think part of the issue is that the underhand free throw shot does not mimic a regular shot. It's a completely different motion and this is not used in any other context of the game, so it seems weird.
It is a more effective shooting method for free throws, but you are putting time into muscle memory that does not translate to improving your other shots in the game.
Every time we take a shot in basketball, our muscle memory is affected, even missed shots, which is why bad habits can be hard to fix. So, it is possible that the overhand free throw shot is more effective for a person's overall game, because it is working to improve other aspects of shooting, which just slightly decreasing free throw shot percentage.
Amy's free throw percentages should be 18% and 14% not 0.18% and 0.14%
Percentages are total number/100 so if she put 18 free throws in 100 tries then percentage is 18%
Yea i like it when indians are good at maths
Canyon is NOT the only Barry to adopt that style. While he did abandon it when he went to Oregon State, I used to watch him at De La Salle High School and he shot his free throws underhand
The channel Secret Base also did a good piece on this.
Highly recommend Secret Base for any HAI/Wendover fans who like sports stories
The granny shot is completely different from a layup, so it might be easier to learn both a layup and a 'clean shot' at the same time.
And practicing shots for game time is easier for most if it is the same, so they don't have to train 2 different shots
One reason against it, is becaue the movement is so different from normal throwing.
Overhand free shot and normal throw are pretty similar. So training for one is training for the other.
While this technique might improve your free throws, it might make your overall throwing game worse.
from my perspective, it's probably good to stick with your regular shooting form. FT reps during a game can put a player in rythim for when they attempt a jump shot.
If a player isn't known for shooting jumshots like Gobert or Shaq, it probably couldn't hurt to use the granny shot as it wouldn't be throwing off their regular shot......
Thats awesome but what if you made a video on masked lapwing plovers?
Seconded tbh
It’s worth considering that any time spent practicing the granny shot is time not spent practicing the overhand. Since the overhand technique is far more versatile for the game as a whole and, ultimately, free throws are really only helpful on the margins, it may make more sense from an overall performance standpoint to focus on the overhand shot for all around improvement even if you aren’t optimizing specifically for free throws.
Good shooters are good shooters because they repeat their shooting motion close to perfectly every time. Those good shooters also happen to be good free throw shooters more often than not. One of the many reasons is that the most common warm up shooting drill includes free throws. Free throws allow a shooter to get into their rhythm. The form holds weight for terrible shooters, but the better the shooter, the worse underhand would be comparatively.
For someone like Shaq or Wilt, 90% of their shots come from within 5 ft. They rarely shoot, so when they practice free throws that's the only practice shooting that they do. That's also why they would benefit more from it. A more easily repeatable shooting motion for someone who doesn't shoot during a game is beneficial. However, the same effect can be gained by developing a jumpshot. Blake Griffin is a good example. His FT percentage jumped almost 10% once he started shooting jumpshots during games.
My hypothesis for if Steph Curry used the underhand shooting form is that his shooting percentage AND free throw percentage would go down instead of up. Because now he's training 2 separate motions.
That diagram at 4:20 to 4:25 sums up nicely what ive been saying about football (soccer to yanks).
Basically you want the ball to curl such that it heads towards the goal perpendicular to it. The goal is therefore bigger relative to the ball.
This is why I think a perfect 2 striker pairing has a left footed player on the right, and right footed on the left.
When they shoot at goal, the natural curve of the flight of the ball gives a higher goal to ball trajectory ratio.
This kind of logic can also apply to taking corners, which should always be outswingers, whixb is the opposite of what they normally try.
This makes it easier for attackers to strike the ball accurately and harder for defenders.
...I should be a football manager
Sam made the videos longer but only uploads once a week now. Fair enough.
This doesn't take into account the psychological effects of a made free throw on basketball players. Good shooters can get warm and activate their muscle memory after being cold with just a couple free throws. If they switch to granny, this benefit would not exist anymore. Also, people train the other way their hole life for shots that aren't just free throws, so maybe granny would be better to learn when you're first starting, but also probably not because it's a whole different question when you take into account experience. The normal shot allows you to practice free throws whenever you take any shot rather than having to exclusively practice free throws all the time and it also helps good players get hot in game. So, that's why players don't switch to the granny apart from that it looks weird. I would argue that for most players a normal shot is objectively better simply for the two facts I mentioned.
Amy’s arms must have been sore after all those free throws!
I gotta say, if the standard technique is easier for novices and people who don't know how to play, that's the true granny shot.
Worth mentioning for a future correction video: the size of computer paper in the US is different from the size of computer paper in the rest of the world.
215.9 mm (8.5 in) in the US vs 210 mm (8.27 in) in the rest of the world.
It's still about the width of the paper, a few milimeter doesn't make a difference.
I'm pretty sure they're aware that A4 is different from Letter. Ultimately a 3mm difference on each side of the ball is awfully trivial. Letter size is also used in Canada, all of Central America except Honduras, several countries in South America and the Caribbean, and the Philippines. So, it's inaccurate to say A4 is used "in the rest of the world".
absolutely tiny difference
I know it makes very little difference but it's still a weird comparison tool to use 😅.
@@fuzzzone so the countries where the US has had significant impact culturally or trade-wise...
1:19 I love how the bg here implies that Sam's outside correspondent Amy is an automaton of some kind that can be programmed with code to learn basketball
I am curious about the psychology of the under handed shot. I would proposed that entering a state of flow would be easier for those player using the under handed shot because it allows the player to design a specific satte of flow for a specific outcome. This should be more efficient than another player who has to use other ritualistic behavior to enter their state of flow for shooting free thows. Furthermore, by making such a distinct motion for free throws only separate from the other motion of shooting in games this should create better neuroplasticity which in theory should make them a better basketball player. I wonder if you made an entire team do it, would you see a group effects like interperaojal relationship increase.
You're close to getting why players use their proper form instead of the granny shot. It is about entering a state of flow, but you enter that state of flow by using your proper form, because that's what translates to the rest of the game. Granny shots do nothing for the flow of the entire game. I can't count the number of games I've seen where a bad shooting start gets reversed at the line, and that's only happening if you're using your jumpshot form.
@@wolfgangfegelein2450 , you can't count the number of games where that happened, but you also can't count the number of games where that didn't happen. You are cherry-picking data in an attempt to support your argument.
@@SgtSupaman If I were cherry-picking I'd be relying on rare occurrences. I can't count them because it's a COMMON occurrence. You're never going to understand that if you stick to your data sheets. It's a very shallow way of going through life.
@@wolfgangfegelein2450 Actually a state of flow would be easier to enter by having a divergent movement for a unique situations like free throws. It would be the same reasons why athletes use ritualistic behavior before free throws. Using a different motion should in theory make it easier to enter and exit that flow state because it will make your brain more able to recognize the change of flow state. I am also talking about flow in terms of psychology and not in terms of movement. Flow is the rhythmic movement of the brain and muscles to do some type of action without the usage or very limited usage of the conscious mind. A good example of a flow state is when you are driving and you just began to go through the motions with your body and before you know it, you arrive at your destination. Flow states also can lead to mistakes when you cannot distinguish from them such as when you take the route to work instead of the route to school. The more similar the routes are two on another the more likely the routes will cause you to enter the wrong state of flow. If we apply this to basketball, using a different shooting technique should minimize problems with entering the wrong state of flow. Free throws have a different environment than the regular basketball game. You are able to be calm and think. Incorrectly using the wrong state of flow could lead to someone having more adrenaline spikes which could lead to more misses. This is why a lot of players do something with the ball before shooting it. It allows them to reset their flow state. I am proposing that it is easier to enter a different state of flow if you use a different shooting technique because it is less likely that your brain will be confused and use the wrong flow state.
@@tauntingeveryone7208 You're still not getting it, because you're focusing too much on the psychology. I'm talking about finding your physical rhythm. You do that by using your jumpshot technique because it is how you maintain/reestablish your rhythm for the rest of the game.
The rituals accomplish the psychological flow without throwing you out of rhythm for the rest of the game.
As a Gators basketball fan this was a fun trip down memory lane. Guess we have Canyon Barry’s granny shot, in part, to thank for our legendary buzzer beater win in the Sweet 16 round against Wisconsin in 2017.
The narrative that Wilt only shot fts underhanded in his 3rd season is false, he shot free throws underhanded for more than just one season, including some of his worst ft shooting seasons.
[Various clips of him shooting underhanded free throws in this video of the 1967 finals](ua-cam.com/video/7yffDCHu4X0/v-deo.htmlsi=NjDADczAJlkwYp1q). At 28:20 for example
Yes and no. The thing is for the one season he consistently shot underhanded. The other seasons he didn't. What you're pointing at is video of some exceptions. The championship was being fought for, you're in game 4 in a very tight game that could be won or lost over a handful of missed free throws, and you know your shooting percentage is much better underhanded. He just swallowed his pride in this situation because sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do to win, so he did. It was not like he shot underhanded throughout the season.
@@thefelix7767 I'll have to ask for a source on that, you're telling me he was willing to swallow his pride multiple times and then suddenly his pride was too big at other times?
I've yet to see a Granny take a Granny shot
Going to point this out: On the night that Wilt made 28 of 32 and scored 100, the rims in Hersey, Pennsylvania were so soft and forgiving that the ball's velocity basically died with the shock absorption of hitting the rim.
You know this how?
Honestly, you probably wouldn't really see many results from practicing a different style of free-throws. It might help some people, it might hinder others, but overall the value would be pretty neutral. The cost to this though would potentially be a reduced quality of shooting elsewhere on the court.
I guess it comes down to your philosophy in sports coaching. Do you want your players to focus on general skill that can be appropriated towards a large portion of the game, or do you want your players to focus on specific scenarios and train around those. Personally I'd go more towards the general skill stuff. Even if overhead free throws are marginally worse, I think using basically the same shooting form as you try to elsewhere on the court has more benefit.
God dammit 😂 Amy better be getting paid extra
there is also the one handed jump shot. One of the best PG in Europe with that style was Greek-American John Korfas with high percentage in FT too (79/84 his best year).
The main reason most people do free throws normally is because it shows confidence in your form, it also allows you to get heated up to it during a game if you haven’t been able to put up a shot
Thank you , you can use your free throw form in a real game when you shoot above your head. Nobody is letting you get a granny shot mid game ,…. So really dude has no clue just made a video for click bait
Once in gym class, I found a technique for 3 pointers
Hold the ball firmly with both hand, holding behind your head, and arc your arms over your head and release while keeping your body straight and arms ridged (your upper arms shouldn’t move much, just your elbow straightening out)
Done right, the ball has no sideways variance since your arms are acting as a rail, the motion also allows you to get more force compared to a normal throw since you are starting from behind
Not sure how it’s work in a pro game, since it’s not really something you can do fast, and other players could knock out the ball on the wind up
As a very good shooter who used to spend 2 hours a day practicing every kind of shot imaginable, the underhand free throw and sky hook are both insanely difficult. The reason Rick Barry could do it was because he's Rick f'n Barry a guy who led the NCAA, ABA, and NBA in scoring. I've seen this argument about underhanded free throws endlessly. Every serious basketball player has tried it out while practicing; if it were better they would do it. Wilt is an anomaly. He may have been the most athletic person to have ever lived. It would have been difficult for him to not accidentally throw the ball 10 rows into the stands by using 1% more of his strength than he intended on a free throw. For him a slow rocking motion would be easier to control than a wrist flick.
Additionally practicing free-throws underhanded takes time away from shooting overhanded and there are only so many hours in the day. Most high-level athletes are already practicing as much as is physically possible.
Finally, you also need to warn people ahead of time if you're going to show stock footage of people who have never touched a basketball pretending to shoot. Imagine being forced to listen to someone that's never held a bow before attempting to play the violin. It's a freaking hate crime against basketball players!
This is the correct comment for this video.
This makes sense when we look at curry’s signature shot, since it has a higher ark, making sense why his 3 point percentage is so high.
You can’t jump when shooting free throws!
You might have looked at it, but there’s a Dutch sport called korfball which shares a lot of similarities to basketball. The penalty technique used is exactly what you recommend, might be worth having a look into and analysing
4:12 jeeeez, Americans really will measure with _anything_ but the metric system, huh? 😅
One of our clients has a hoop attached to a wall behind their warehouse for employees. The owner started a few years ago a Friday Free Throw shooting contest at lunch to decide who gets to leave early. The 62yr old little Latino lady has won a couple of them shooting rick Barry style. She can barely lift her arms over her head but she often beats men way more athletic than her in FT.
Ive tried it since and honestly, im much better underhand. I just constantly get the ball in the middle and when i miss its either too far or too short, never left or right.
2 FUN FACTS- Steph Curry has ZERO and I mean not a one full season where his FT% was UNDER 88.3%. Not a one. His release angle is 56* which is the secret. FUN FACT 2- Two NBA sized basketballs can go through the hoop at the same time.
2nd fact is wrong, maybe the combined area of the balls is less than net area, but 2 balls still cannot fit. Rims are 18in and balls are slightly above 9in.
There is no way this isn't sam getting revenge on amy for going to the olympics.
leaving Steph Curry and KD out of the graphic when they had 50-40-90 seasons is nasty work
the production value and effort put into these videos has increased wildly in the last couple of months! appreciate it guys!
1:03 You really want to include Shaq on that list when Steph Curry shot 100% during the 19-20 season?
yeah, in a season where he did like 3 or 4 shots, wow... I mean...
@@tiranito2834 how does that even make sense?
steph is career 91% ftp. but hey whatever fits your narrative.
HAI wasn't claiming that the underhand free throw dude had the best free throw percentage in history of basketball. He was making the point that a lot of very famous basketball players had worse percentages than this basically unknown college level player.
I (non-American, not-a-basketball-fan) have never heard of Steph Curry, but I _have_ heard of Shaquille O'Neal, so it seems fair to assume one is much more famous than the other, and thus deserved his spot on the table.
@@whydoineedanameiwillneverp7790 Steph Curry is the best three point shooter in nba history. I of course don’t expect you to know that, but I assume he is well known around the people that know the some basketball. I could say Steph and Shaq are the same in fame, but it just depends on who you ask. It isn’t far Shaq is criticized on his lack of shooting when it wasn’t his style, plus the era he was. But it isn’t your fault you don’t know.
The real reason for not using the granny shot is that it only works for free throws. For the rest of the game, the players must shoot standard and all their training is focused on the standard shot.
Practicing the other style, only usable in a very particular situation, would eat out the time to practice the normal style, usable in all situations.
The running joke that Amy, the outside correspondent, needs to do all the dirty legwork always felt quite funny.
Meanwhile, the writer of the script is this all powerful being who can be free to decide what Sam says.
But yeah, turns out if you google Amy, her main job of the profile is “script writer for HAI”…
In hindsight it’s pretty obvious. Of course it’s the writer who’s doing the research that needs to go outside and do those things. But yeah, feels a bit funny.
Why doesn't she narrate? And what does the narrator do if Amy does all of the work?
@@Anonymous-df8it Well, the narrator… narrates.
As in, being a good narrator at telling a story, being convincing, having a lot of stats in charm, etc. It’s a different skill set from being able to do quick research and summarize all the information needed into a short episode.
Also, the narrator needs to work on Wendover Production episodes too. Which are likely not written by Amy but a different team.
HAI episodes also likely have more than Any being the only writer. Amy also likely writes for other projects that aren’t HAI too.
@@akirachisaka9997 But Sam only needs to read aloud for the length of the video (or slightly longer in the event of an error), but the writer needs to do research for days, so it seems a bit unfair to me
also worth consideration: all other shots taken from the field are taken using the overhand technique, so using the overhand technique for free throws is consistent with the rest of a player’s game. training the underhand technique for free throws would mean that the player would have to master two different shooting styles.
Ehhhh not so sure about this one.
The reason *most* players will never go granny isn't some issue of vanity or fear of being unorthodox, it's a matter of learning curve and a poor cost/benefit ratio. The set-shot free-throws that most players use today are built on very similar mechanics to the jump shots that they shoot often and have muscle memory built up for - which helps ensure consistency when shooting. The granny shot is an unfamiliar movement for basketball players who most often are forced to shoot over or around other players, which the granny shot is not suited for at all. For most players, when they get to the point where their free throw shooting is scrutinized, they have played enough basketball to have a huge amount of experience with their overhand shot. At that point, if they are struggling, they can either choose to tweak something that they already have the basic mechanics down very well and/or try and address a mental block, or they can start from square one with the granny shot and bet on seeing consistent enough improvement over time that they eventually surpass their original baseline. For guys whose job security is incredibly tenuous, they can't spare a period of bad free throw shooting while they learn another shooting method. It could be a literal million-dollar difference if they can't be trusted to make free throws when on the floor. In that light, wouldn't you try and make a small change to what you already use to determine what the problem is, instead of throwing away all those hours to be worse at a slightly easier method?
TLDR: Skill issue
@@internetguy7319 Tell me you don't play ball without telling me you don't play ball.
@@wolfgangfegelein2450 He's right. It's a skill issue
@@mikea5745 If you and the other dude played ball, you'd realize that the reason you use your jumpshot form is because it keeps you in rhythm during the entire game. If you're having an off night, you go to the line to establish your rhythm and correct your game. You can only do that by using your jumpshot form. The granny form HURTS your rhythm for the rest of the game, because it's an entirely different motion using an entirely different set of muscles, hence, a different muscle memory.
Learn to think for yourselves instead of blindly believing what you see in a youtube video. The entire premise is invalid because the dude who made this video is looking at free throws in a vacuum, and not as a smaller aspect of a bigger game.
@@wolfgangfegelein2450 So why didn't it for Wilt?
You know what's funny? I've always had issues with my free throws, and at one point attempted the underhand form for a few months. It DID NOT work, in fact, it massively hurt my percentage so much more. I've never once had any issues or feelings toward/about/against it. It is absolutely tacky, but who cares. All that matters is if you're comfortable and most importantly - that is works for you. My current form and routine lacks ANY dribbles. And has improved finally to around 66%. lol. Believe it or not, that is genuine good improvement. Last year at this time I think I was around 50-55%. So uhh... yeah. I'm rapidly closing in on 70% now though, thankfully. It feels good to finally after so many years see rapid notable progress.
Steve Nash is the best person to learn from to shoot them better by the way. Dude literally has a video and a program out to teach everyone step by step (no hand-licking required lol). I've watched the video, however that was a few years ago and I didn't watch it with intent to learn or focus on it to learn, ironically. If I actually used it to further improve my percentages, I'd probably see a much more notable improvement. Oh well. lol.
Ah yes
The Sakuragi Hanamichi shots. Also those who complained about look when doing the shots doesn't care about their team at all. You rather let your team lose than having your fragile ego hurts???
I think it makes sense for centers that never shoot outside the paint anyways, but for other players, practicing overhand free throws is also practice for half of the other shots they take
So people base their actions on vanity. Big turn off for any thinking person
Ya.
It's not about vanity. It's about staying in/establishing the proper rhythm for the rest of the game. Smart players use the free throws to get into rhythm and recover from bad starts. You're not going to get that if you're using a different form at the line, and it's the rest of the game that matters more anyway.
I think that the other variable that people overlook here is that doing an overhand freehand throw is more practice for during game shots. Like you're not gonna do an underhand while someone can defend it unless it's a layup.
Sam write your own scripts
he does, on Wendover
he's busy running from a cute couple on Jet Lag
For integer counts, shouldn't you use a chi-squared test?
I listened to the Malcom Gladwell episode years ago and loved it. I'm glad you made this!
Yes! A Chi-square or some test based on a binomial distribution. And even if they chose the t-test, it definitely should have been a _paired_ test, but a unpaired test, since they seem to have done the data in trials of 10 shots, and Amy could have improved over the span of the experiment. The stats on here try hard and keep being incorrect, hahaha.
Ok so after leaving my snide remark about Steph Curry after watching 20 seconds and seeing the thumbnail and knowing where this going, and subsequently after watching the whole video, here is all the context you missed:
When it comes to these kinds of free throws, they are only really even considered for people who really just can't shoot normal shots at all. One of the things you got right in this video was your jab at Gobert, as he cannot shoot at all, but your issue is just simply that most basketball players are indeed good at shooting a basketball normally. The vast vast vast majority of NBA players can shoot, and the way the NBA is trending, those who cannot shoot at all are a bit of a dying breed. No one thinks that if you are an 82% free throw shooter overhand, your percentage would be improved by going to underhand.
The next issue is actually more of a practical one. There are only so many hours in the day for training. One of the biggest factors that determines how good of a shooter you are is how many lifetime shots you have taken (disregarding chucking, I'm talking about shooting drill type stuff). These shots NEED to be overhand to get over defenses. I would block the living hell out of someone who tried to shoot granny through defense and laugh while scoring the fast break the other way. In your video, you frame a free throw as chaotic biomechanically, and it is compared to granny, but compared to a normal jump shot, a free throw is the one with much of the chaos eliminated. Because of this, shooting free throws is an excellent method or working on the consistency of your jump shot, as you can drill in that motion into your muscle memory with perfect form, which then helps you in the flash of the moment when you take an off balance jump shot because the defense slipped for just a moment and you need to take advantage of the opportunity given. If I am constantly training granny free throws, which I would have to do, I then have to replace that work on my jump shot with something else, which might even be practicing over hand free throws anyway. If I don't replace those shots, I end up as a worse shooter. Shooting granny does not at all help your jump shot.
Skill issue, get good at both throws
You are literally the one other guy in this comments section who actually gets it. Everyone else watched this dumpster fire of a video and thinks they're an expert now.
@@internetguy7319 this sacrifices your skill in the overhand shot, which makes you worse as a player. You can’t just train more either, there is lots of biomedical science behind that. Overtraining is a thing.
@@internetguy7319 How is being limited to 24 hours in a day a skill issue? You literally only have so much time to practice and you still have to eat, sleep, do taxes, etc with some of those hours.
@FirstNameLastName-hz4kv Finally, someone who understands basketball
NPR did a great story about this some years ago. It's a shame Shaq did not adopt it, many of his games might have turned out differently and stopped the rather shameful Hack-a-Shaq offense.
The point of basketball isn't to win, it's to entertain fans
And how do you entertain fans? By winning.
@@wolfgangfegelein2450 Winning only entertains if you look cool while doing it. If you win but don't look cool, no one will buy your tickets or merch.
@@Waldohasaskit210 The Tim Duncan era San Antonio Spurs prove you wrong. They're the most "boring" team I can remember, but their fans loved them because they won. It's the out of market fans and the casuals who didn't care.
@@wolfgangfegelein2450you prb tell people you “would’ve been in the league” don’t you ;) I see u lots bro
So are there any former Harlem Globetrotters players in the NBA ?
Funfact: In Winner Stays animation called The Last Game, for Nike (ad for 2014 Soccer Men’s World Cup) we have a opportunity to see in a TV the “perfect Lebron” (a clone version of Lebron) using the granny shot free throw, it’s a small detail but Nike knew what they are doing.
If this is about rick barry
From my point of view, the lower trajectory angle gives to player more chances to hit the front of the rim then bounce off into the glass and go in. Same thing happens if he's/she's a little bit of axis. Try slightly miss a shot hitting the rim with 65 degree angle and look where the ball is going.
This should be a 2 minute video max its all filler
Field shooters should avoid this technique since it would disrupt the flow of their game. On the other hand, this would be perfect for lane drivers that don't take many shots from the field. Not only does it not disrupt their game, but compliments it since they pull the most penalties from defenders.