Important Reason For Buying The Shimano XTR M9000 Pedals And NOT XT M8000.
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- Опубліковано 9 тра 2018
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In fact, addition stack/2 to all points of pedaling circle doesnt make it 'non-round'. It simply shifts overall circle by stack/2 upward, and new virtual centre of this circle also shifts upwards. If you are not sure, calculate diameters: 9-3 oclock:(175+175)=350 ; 12-6 oclock:((175+s/2)+(175-s/2))=350. If you still are not sure, you can place the bike next to your wall, place the pencil on your pedal and spin crank, holding your pencil on the pedal facing upwards. It will draw on your wall pretty round circle =)
"The stack height of the pedal is changing the length of your crankarm." This is false!
The stack height of the pedal offsets the center of the shoe path circle from the centerline of the crank spindle in the direction of the seat tube. So you may need to adjust your seat height to accommodate a change in pedal stack height, but aside from that (and the possibility of the thicker pedal hitting the ground more easily) there is no difference in mechanical advantage, efficiency, or any other performance parameter in changing the stack height.
Stack height DON"T CHANGE THE LEVERAGE. Basic physics!
Axle distance (center of rotation) is substantial.
Well, as I like your channel, here I don't agree. Stack height does not make your pedaling "unround". It just moves the circle around which your feet travel upwards, by half of stack height (measure it, every point on that circle moves upwards by the same amount.
Notion that crank arm changes produced torque also has been disproved. At least the longer arm>>greater torque. Much bigger factor is matching crank arm length to your physique, and that part plays much bigger role. Not only for efficiency, but also preventing injuries.
However stack height has quite large impact on riding, it's just not that much about efficiency. Let stack height lowers the rider, and thus lowers or centre of gravity, improving handling of bike, especially in corners and steeps.
I do agree with stack height contributing to rock strikes with pedals
Mirek Urbanowicz You managed to explain this better than I could :)
Totally agree with you
99
You should think about this more. Draw out the circle that the pedal spindle draws, then the circle (!) that the cleat interface draws.
pointless (and incorrect about everything except the (2mm) of extra ground clearance....) Pedal platform still describes an exact circle of 175mm radius - draw the crank at 12,3,6 and 9 O'clock with a MASSIVE stack and you'll see it's obvious. Lower stack will result in less unwanted torque around the pedal axle axis from the main body-supplied downward force (which your muscles would have to counteract) - again, draw huge wood-block pedals if you want to understand it. Then think about percentage deltas and you'll realise how irrelevant (ok, marginal^10) any "gain" might be from 1-2mm less stack.
Classic sickbiker video - full of rambling with limited vocabulary and incorrect information 😅 never getting to the point.
The main benefit here would be that you could lower your seat height by 1mm because of the stack difference which would give some added stability.
I don't think that it boosts your pedalling efficiency, because you still pedal in complete circles with thick pedals, just that it is like you sit 1-2mm higher.
The radius of the turning circle is still going to be 175 no matter what your stack height is. The main point of this video is invalid.
Gorehunt I agree. The pedal describes a circle despite of the stack, maybe higher, but a circle. The only difference is in the instability of your feet over the pedal. Te larger the stack, the higher the instability will be, because your feet are in unstable equilibre over the pedal axis. With a bigger stack your ankles will have to work harder in order to keep your feet stable. That's the point of the new platform pedals, that are slimmer every new iteration. If you want more stable clip pedals get crank brother's, they have the smallest stack imo.
The turning circle is the same, but extra stack means that at the bottom of your pedal stroke you have less effective extension with your foot, and at the top of the pedal stroke your foot is again extended less than it would be with a lower stack pedal. The more stack you have in a pedal on a particular set up the higher you have to move your saddle relative to the bottom bracket to get your required optimal leg extension at both the top and bottom of the pedal stroke. That is never a good thing, and it is exactly why pro's want the lowest stack possible on their pedals for a given set up. His explanation in the video is incorrect, you are correct about that, but lower stack height absolutely has its merits and advantages over higher stack set ups.
Pedalling circle *IS* always round (as round as it can get). It is just that the circle "rises" its center half of the pedal stack height.
Kyrylo Bohdanenko incorrect sir. The spindle of the pedal will be a circle but not a point on top of the pedal (ie where your shoe is resting) It will be an oval. Unless the pedal was in a locked position then it will be a circle. It rises when the cranks are vertical but then becomes the same length as the spindle center in the horizontal position, thus creating an oval. I’m not necessarily justifying the video and agreeing that this is “VERY important” but he does have some valid points.
John Miller, well, when crankarm is in horizontal position, the top of the pedal is be going to be facing upwards (or it can be slightly tilted, because of natural foot position). However, what I had in mind is that pedal stack height is a constant, which is added on top of the spindle and it effectively shifts the pedalling circle upwards by those couple milimeters. On the other hand, if you are telling me that the circle may be distorted due to the fact that our feet are not always level with the ground whilst pedalling, then I agree on this point.
Kyrylo Bohdanenko No, it’s simple geometry. There’s never a circle at the resting point of your foot. It’s always an oval. Period. Because of the shift upwards of the “circle”, this is exactly what is creating the oval. When horizontal there’s a small area where the “circle” isn’t shifted upwards at all because it’s in-line with the center of the pedal spindle. The only circle that would be created is at dead center of the spindle and if the pedals were in a fixed position, which would be unrideable.
I wish I could post a picture... I just proved it by taping a marker to my pedal and using my calendar white-board to draw the path. I did it a couple times, the vertical diameter of the oval was a smidge under 14 inches and the horizontal diameter was 13.5 inches. Again, nothing to be concerned about but just proving that your forces are in an oval, not a circle.
John is right, it is never a circle but ellipse (or something else).
I disagree with the pedal thickness theory. As long as the pedal is always horizontal, then the 175mm radius circle is the same shape and size regardless of the thickness of the pedals.
but they are not horizontal all the time.
Sharif Naddaf they aren't far off. Only a slight wobble with each turn.
I wouldn't call 10-30 degrees slight wobble.
do some math and tell me what 10-30 degrees of wobble ads up to in mm... Compared to 350mm pedalling circle diameter it is a margin of approximately 0.3 percent of difference. You could be the next world champion if you get rid of that!
lux assuming 20° variance in each direction from average (which I honestly think is overkill) and a 20mm thick pedal (so offset 10mm from centre) I get a maximum wobble distance of 0.6mm per cycle or 0.17%.
I'm not even sure a slight ellipse is necessarily even a bad thing even if it was say a more noticeable distance (eg 5mm)
This is false, thinner pedals simply feel more stable, and lower your center of gravity a miniscule amount, but they have absolutely no effect on crank length, crank length is a measure of the distance between pivot points, center of pedal spindle, and center of bottom bracket, the thickness of the pedal has no affect on this.
A 175mm crank is always a 175mm crank, always has the leverage of a 175mm crank, and will always force you to spin 350mm circles to transmit power to the chain.
Well right and wrong. Yes the crank length wont change but the effective feel will. If you pedal a 170mm crank with a thin pedal it will feel one way but with a thicker pedal it will feel different. I actually have had to make slight saddle adjustments when switching pedals.
Yes, I am right here, and you are wrong.
I did highlight the fact that thinner pedals do feel different, better, more stable, etc... But it's NOT because they have any effect on crank length, they do the same thing thicker shoes do, they space your foot further away from the center axis of the pedal, which gives you less direct control over applying power to this axis.
So it's true that thinner pedals, thinner shoes are generally better for pedaling, it is not true that they literally, or effectively change the length of your cranks, that whole section of your video is just false nonsense.
@@G95G95 Well I guess we can agree to disagree. You are right about one thing some shoes have a similar effect. Ride safe.
Sorry. I think this is misinformation. Stack height can matter, but not for the reasons you mention. For most riders, they are not going to benefit one way or another from a difference of 1 to 1-1/2 mm. Ground clearance is negligible for that amount too. For that matter getting tires with taller knobs or pumping them up 5 extra psi will do the same and I don't see anyone doing that. Stick with M540's or XT M8000's if you are on a budget. Get the XTR's if money's not your limiting factor - but you wont see the gains you mention.
agree. stack height does not affect cranks arms length, but will affect the complete body position height (in about 1mm on this case). so, with xtr pedals installed instesad of xt, the saddle height should be 1mm lower, and so on...
Yeah I saw a test somewhere and they did between 165 and 175 crank arms and they found no real power increase in either direction. That being said the weight might matter some and I did learn something I though i always thought the xtr had a titanium spindle and therefore were weaker. I have always avoided them for that reason.
Well yeah if your on a budget get 520s. But XT is 132% more money then the 520s. So spending the extra 50% over the XT to get XTR is not that much more if your already spending more then you needed to - So I can see the argument to just get the XTR if your already spending allot more on the XT.
Also if you get taller tires/pump tires up more to gain 1.5mm , everything is going up 1.5mm. With the pedals you actually lower your saddle 1.5mm so lower COG and increased pedal clearance at the same time.
Many good points... great information Danny :-----) I appreciate all of your hard work !
I've been using my m747 spd pedals for 25 years. I just regreased them literally yesterday. they still work flawlessly.
The different stack highs don't change the effective crank length. It changes only the point of the axle of your pedaling...
Btw: Funny fact: Peter Sagan uses PD-R 9000 right pedal and PD-R 9100 left pedal at his road bike... ua-cam.com/video/M_guZmtNuj4/v-deo.html
The Pedals have different stack heights...
Niki Beckmann That's cool. I think it might be because of some leg lenght diffrences.
"our pedalling is not round" false: yes, independent of the stack height, the pedalling will always be round. There is just an offset, i.e., there is a perfect rotational circle but it is shifted up.
Or is there, the stacking height is messured vertical, with the pedal horisontal, and for a full revolution of the cranks, the pedal will remain the same position. At 3 and 9 o clock because of the position of the pedal, is still messured vertical, and not horisontal, will result in an oval revolution. Ok it's only the difference in stacking height, in this case ca. 2 millimeters, out of a perfect circle.
no, it does not. Unless you actually rotate the pedal the offset (x, y) remains constant. Not an egg shape. A perfect circle. Only the center moves up 9mm
My bad, you are correct, had to draw it, to get it, in my head :-D
Karm Asutor think of a circle, if you add a centimeter upwards (stacking height) you move the whole circle up by a centimeter. try yo draw it.
The center doesn't move, but you offset it upwards, with the stacking height. When the crank is at 12 you add the stacking height, and at 6 you subtract the stacking height = still the perfect circle.
Interesting detail ! I used to purchase XTR's, but had maintenance issues (older gen), so switched to XT's.
Would you be able to tell the difference in a blind test? It seems unlikely to me. But what do you think?
Dont think so either
only time the stack makes a diffrence is when switching from road to spd pedals on the sme bike often. That's why i get xtr for the gravel bikes
I have Xtr pd-m9000 on my super modified bmc TE02, and a pair of modified M540 with titanium Axle (thank you Danny, I've used your video about M520 maintenance as instruction chart for all the component, and I need to adjust a little bit the precharge on the spheres of the right pedal) on my road/cross bike and I can feel the difference between the two pedals.
Xtr are top of the range pedals in everything from packaging (oh my god that packaging is simply amazing!!) to performance.
I used xtr's for this very reason, plus the ground clearance helps too
To bad the XTR doesn't keep their dust seals in place..
true
Dang it you are helping to make me to spend more money!
Actually want xtr on new bike to help reduce snow/ice buildup.
This has been a problem with M540 pedals.
I am riding road bike in SPD and XTR!
Where is your god now?
having a lower stack height lowers the effective bottom bracket height but you get more pedal clearance so better for cornering but still more pedal clearance
I love the detailed inspection, I wonder if there is a watt penalty difference?
Danny , your presentation is easier to follow than content from GCN according to a client of mine . I agree .
XTR SPD are infamous to spindle failures. XT for durability.
And then there's the thickness of your insoles... 🐇🕳
Reading through the comments, I am now more sold than ever on the base M520 pedals for the durability and longevity. I never raced mountain bikes and stopped road and track racing 15 years ago. From here to the bucket, I am mostly interested in durable hardware.
They are really really good.
The m540 rolls on a nicer bearing. I like them a lot for only a little more. Both should have similar longevity. I also have a set of m520s that I got for free, older than dirt and still kicking.
m520s are awesome but heavy as bricks (380gr). i have flat platform pedals that are lighter than them at 372 :/ and clipping in/out is a PITA, i'll be getting a set of shimano xtr 25th SPD anniversary (the blue ones, match my XC bike hahah). till then i'm happy on flats.
Never give it a thought I want the new xtr Enduro pedal ..Has a nice platform.I’m now looking at the stack height...interesting vid ty.
renegade1969 you’re spot on mate.
My xt m8000 has been damage by heavy rains in long rides and it has been just a year. I sold my m540 to my buddy and it's still working. But maybe because I avoid rainy days that time. But I have great feel with the xt but I'm on a budget right now.
what do you think of changing out the spindles on the XTRs with aftermarket titanium ones?
Change the title to why not waste your money on the XTR lineup.
Thanks for the info. Too bad I already bought the XT’s last month. I blame you for not informing me sooner Danny LOL
thanks for this video to explain the thickness of the pedal effect the crankarm length.
Wonder if the trail version shares a similar difference in axle and stack dimensions...
I have a pair of M520 and XTR. There is a diferrence using each one, but really dont worth the difference between the prices: R$ 250 for M520 - R$ 1000 for XTR.
6:21 - How don't the pedals go around? Its centerpoint is 9.5mm above the center of the crank!!!!!!!!! Nothing else changes!
He means feet don't go perfectly round.
Necula, you are incorrect. The crank arm is the radius. The center point I mentioned above. its a perfect circle unless you have some crank arms and expand and contract making the radius larger and smaller.
great video! lots of non obvious information here. what's your opinion about mtb pedals for road cycling? i've been using mtb pedals on my road bike for 4 years now and i've been thinking about getting a proper dura ace pedal setup for my fancy new road bike, but i'm still not sure if i should make the switch for ~$250
Zadius895
Depends on whether you like to be able to walk if you have to get off your bike. That is the main thing. Mtb pedals easier to clip in also. That is not a big deal but still noticeable. Larger support area of road pedals doesn't matter if the soles of your Mtb shoes are stiff. Finally do you care about the weight.
I use XPEDO Titanium on my 2016 Focus Raven max SL, much lighter and for me I just like them better as I did try XTR 1st
they cost like carbon rims!
i think the crank shorter is better.
you need to be in a highter gear. than you have more gear teeth to hold te power.
longer crankt means faster replacing your chain and gears.
i think
Nice comparison 👍👍
Stack does not change the effective crank arm lingth.
jimmy dobbs /
Explain your thoughts.
Having a higher circle means that your center of gravity is higher, and it slightly alters your position on the bike.
You should clean your bike!
Where do the 8120's fit in the picture . I have them on one of my fleet .
El radio que generas con la biela no se ve afectado por la altura del pedal, no importa cuan alto sea éste. Así que como resumen: solo importa el largo de la biela.
But what About the sealing issue on the xtr???
Is it same on a flat 8120 ?
M540pedal one of the best also. I am very glad with 540 alsa 520 all ways life saver best. Xt was good but i am hea y rider. M8000xt in couple mounths gone not work well and shaking inside metals...
There is virtually zero torque being generated on the cranks at the 12 and 6 clock positions so length of the lever arm is meaningless as far as torque goes. It is not meaningless for ground clearance at the 6 position, however.
1.5mm difference is meaningless.
I don't care bout stack height but I'm curious if anyone's proven XT/XTR bearings are more durable than let's say the cheaper M540.
Lucian I’m a mechanic at a bike shop in Michigan USA.... our racing team guys have experienced bearings crapping out on XTR pedals, some have failed within 4 months of use training and racing. We recommend the XT as they are durable enough for general use and much lighter than the base model pedal.
On a separate note, the durability of the base M520 is almost beyond belief, I personally have a set thats over a decade old... I used them HARD for about 6 years and since then they have been spares and loaned out for people to try, still going strong, just can’t kill them short of bashing them on a rock or something.
I agree with you Nathan, I own 2 MTB with XTR 9000 and 9020 and one of them (left pedal that is only one year old XTR 9000) started to lose it's center. I had to service it and even consider replacing it.
@@0neTwo3 I have a set of SPDs that were 5 years old training and racing Cx, then I installed them on my everyday bike in Montreal and rode 3 winters through crud and salt, plus the rest of the season. Still going on strong! Smooth bearings, no noise ever!! Unbelievable. Best pedal ever made for the money.
@@ZeeFrankensteel but which model?
@@jajk7275 520s...the entry level pedal that won't die!!! best bang for your buck. Not sexy like XTRs but really good for the money.
Excellent tips! How is mud clearance on the Shimano pedals? Is it acceptable? I'm currently running Crankbrother pedals, which clear mud, but they're a nightmare. The spring wears out, causing losses in efficiency every pedal stroke due to a noticable amount of vertical displacement. And the bearings lack durability.
I've had my xtrs for going on 4 seasons of racing and of training. The mud clears pretty well , better than almost all other pedals on the market according to a testIs read a few years ago when i was choosing pedals. It's rare that I cannot clip in even when they have mud on them. The bearings hold up very well too. I just swipe them off with a little bit of WD 40 every once in a while to avoid rust.
Very helpful. Thanks! I'll now order a set.
Shimano is known for bulletproof pedals. Crankbrothers have better mud clearance but they need to be serviced alot more.
I always end up back with Shimano because of how durable they are. I even have Shimano road pedals that are kind of broken in a way that they creak all the time and stuff but they are still able to be used.
I rode crank brothers for one season, and never again. Slightly better mud shedding, and literally everything else was inferior to Shimano pedals. Lousy bearings, lousy platform, seals sucked. Will never ride Crank Bros junk again!
Then it makes also earth bigger.. I'm further away from the center of earth.
...Stack height changes the angle of the foot (ankle to pedal axle) and also it's effective length. I think so.
Crank arm length is measured from axle to axle.
Where could one get the Shimano Catalouge?
tegheim
Shimano.com
Love my M8000 XT 🤘
been cycling for decades. its rare that I learn from a youtube video. i did this time, thanks Sickbiker
I have a new pair of XTRs on my new Tallboy and it’s a much nicer pedal than my eggbeaters, which are on my Salsa Beargrease.
As a moderately confident rider the 8020 / 8120 is the best option due to the mechanism surround profile .
Hi @sickbiker, I want to use SPD on a roadbike (endurance/touring). Should I go for a pedal without any plattform or should I use a pedal with some plattform.
on my city bikes I use dual sided XT T8000 which also seem to have lots of plattform on the SPD side; but I am not sure, since I haven't compared.
What SPD pedal would you prefer on a road bike and why?
Anybody?
The 520s are great, the 8000s are lighter, but I've seen no indication that the performance or durability are equal to the higher price. Ive used the 520s for 25 years or more and love them on any bike I've installed them on. About to pull the trigger on an 8000, I don't see any reason to spend more other than vanity.
@@StuBotNYC I like the flat side for commuting. It also has reflectors, which are mandatory in Germany.
@@carly200 you are required to have reflectors on pedals? That seems a bit overreaching by government, you can be running tail lights or have a rear reflector. Dual sided SPDs are the best in my opinion.
@@StuBotNYC road legal bikes in Germany are required to have (among other things) a white reflector on the front a red reflector at the rear and orange reflectors on the pedals towards front and rear. Wheels need 2 orange reflectors or a reflecting continuous stripe or spoke clips on every spoke.
I don't think that is overreaching. This is purely for safety.
Bikes are part of the traffic system.
Of course some rules are a bit outdated, as not too long ago a bike had to have a dynamo, even with battery operated lights 😂
There are separate rules for race bikes.
I will go for dual sides spd on my road bike as well.
@@carly200 its a bit much in my opinion if it doesnt allow you to run the SPDs, there should be an alternate location on the crank or a tape that would allow it.
Just seems like a bit too much, I run front dual LED have a reflective stripe on both tires, red LED on the rear and there are zero bike equipment laws which I don't actually agree with but if there was a law that wouldn't let me run my Shimanos I'd be pissed.
Never thought of that b4
I have the 520 and xtr. The 520 are the work horse just cheap an durable. But ! Replace it with the xtr.... they look so good on a Black Carbon bike. ;)
thanks
pedaling radius Remains the Same. stack height does not alter pedaling radius.
So if that's correct (which it isn't) why would Shimano ( the multi million dollar company who spend millions spent on research and development) make this a design feature? Seeing as you know more than them.......
@@carbonsuicidemtb1583 to make you spend some money, to keep a market wheel spinning. Radius is not changed, just imagine a pedal with stack with 175 mm. The only thing changed - the leverage of the pedaling force when a leg pushes a pedal not perpendicular to the cranks lever (cosine of the angle between the force vector and perpendicular to spindle radius). BUT the difference (between pedals, in %) is extremely nothing, so this change affects your wallet much more than pedalling efficiency.
This argument is like arguing that thicker shoes, bigger feet, or longer legs somehow make your crank arms longer! Lol
@@carbonsuicidemtb1583 Since you seem to think you know more than EUCLID,(which you don't) maybe YOU can explain it(which you can't). It's pretty simple trigonometry and even simpler geometry... (but not for you)
ok, have at it, Hipparchus. hahahaha... yeah, I thought so.
@@G95G95 exactly. I'm really anxious for @Carbon suicide mtb to change the fundamental laws of mechanics... his PHD is on the line. pfft.
I love my Shimano XTR pedals. :))
Dude you are the bomb!
The most important difference you did not mention. The length of the axes of the XTR is a few mm's shorter than the one of the XT. This means the XTR pedal is closer to the crank arm than is the XT.
I'll take the XT for the dual sided clips. Which i did today. Great pedals. That was weak sauce.
Wash your bike
awesome argument as some people will buy a new crank arm to minimize 3-5mm...
The pedals that are on the bike, are they forsale please ?
Living, learning & loving Autism ASD don’t be so poor and buy a set of new ones
I am glad to see various bicycle makes instead of just Canyon as seen on GCN . A sign of objectivity or non - bias.
WHAT?! nobody cares for 1 mm difference
Good information. Thank you.
Great video!...have XTR pedals, they are awesome but on some gnarly single tracks I get a lot of hits on the ground with my 175 cranks.... I think having XT, cheaper, would have been a good idea....Also having fitted the crank plastic protectors was a GREAT idea!!...
All of my bikes have 175mm crank arms stock, mtn or road. Sounds to me like you might be running a smaller equivalent road frame compared with your mtn bikes. Brands generally spec shorter crank arms on smaller frames. (or it could just be where you live or what brands you buy, but that is what is supposed to happen).
Just go with Look X-Tracks...
So you did a 8 minutes long video to point out a 1.5mm difference between those two models? Really?
Shimano Pd-8100 are the best Xc Pedals!
I don't think that's an important reason at all
It really is, as an ex Pro racer and Pro mechanic this can make your pedaling smoother and help with knee problems
Seems like much ado about nothing to me. Still don't know which ones to buy.
Push wheel, make strong.
How about this twist....buy the LOOK X-Track Race Carbon Ti😉!! Rode Shimano for yrs back in the day...LOOK blows em away!!
nice one...
Divide by 2
I run XTR on my S-WORKS Epic Hardtail but I run XT on my Rockhopper and now I realize why I was feeling the height difference, it’s quite noticeable IMO
Flats for life 😎
Freud would have enjoyed this video.
Interesting, although I’m deeply distracted by those weird black plastic gloves 🧤 😏 🧤
Danny, as always I appreciate your informative videos. Another plus for the XTR over the XT is the distance between the axle bearings. XTR has a wider bearing stance between outboard and inner bearings. The lever force on the inner bearings of the XTR are less because they are closer to the crankarm attachment/threads. Maybe it doesn’t make much of a difference for the average build rider, but for a Clyde like me physics plays a role in durability and longevity.
And also, I completely agree with your assessment of stack height. For anyone that has clip a pedal while powering through a rock garden knows that the difference can be a couple of millimeters between being in the race vs chasing.
i dont buy shimano's pedals anymore. too much creaking, xt or xtr it doesnt matter
so what's your recommended pedals?
@@xdirugamesh HT pedals are great so far!!
Sorry - don't agree this time. Can't see the 1mm difference in stack height having any real consequence. A little dirt on your shoe could make a 1mm difference.
hi
lower stack height for all the fixie riders!
I thought I was watching a video about pedals. But now that I see the latex gloves... I'm waiting for a body to appear somewhere.
You did say "Marginal" and I'd say that is pretty marginal. Definitely Address crank arm length before throwing away more than twice the difference on some XTR pedals just to move your foot 1mm closer to the axle...
Your logic is sort of flawed in so much as your foot is still describing the same relative path with either pedal, moving round the same offset oval/circle, I'll accept a lower stack pedal does help with control getting you "marginally" closer to the bikes centre of mass. But if pedal strikes are an issue with cageless SPDs let alone the "trail" versions or flats you've got bigger problems to address...
As you say M520s will do for most people I use those on a couple of bikes, as well as older M424 (cheap resin cages) and M636 (old, heavy DX BMX pedals), but all of my bikes (Road, MTB and Gravel) have 170mm cranks, sort your cranks first...
Меняют ли педали Q-factor ?
I stay with my xt8100. Peace out.
Hello from Russia
Where are you from? Town, village :)
From pidoransk city and you?
Bryansk?
Can u give me one cleats?😅