The differences between spottily playing on cell phone through a $100 DAC and 192 khz high resolution files playing on a $5k high-end DAC/streamer are so incredibly subtle whereas the difference between entry-level bookshelf speakers and a Nice, not even necessarily high-end, full range floor-standers or good stand-mount speakers with a good woofer will knock your socks off by comparison. When you throw vinyl into the mix, you get a larger differences but it's more a matter of preference than being bettor or worse.
Source first. I spent so much time chasing down problems in my equipment and moving speakers around.... when I dialed in my source everything else was so much easier and forgiving.
I started my journey in to audio perfection in the mid 80’s. I was talked into believing that the big money should go onto the source. I employed that strategy for many years, with some validity. If your source is poor, that, will ultimately transpose to what your amp and speakers can resolve. It has taken me over 30 years to appreciate that no matter how good your source equipment, your amplification, your interconnects, if your speakers aren’t up to the job your system will under perform. I, after 35 plus years of experimentation and trial and error, have concluded that priority should lean toward the speakers. Allow your dealer to help you match your components, but, always remember that it is you who will be listening to that system for years to come, so, your preference is paramount.
Speakers and room first imo. Of course, get enough power for your speakers too if you plan to turn it up :) Room depends as sometimes people don't want to have treatments hanging around, however you can make them look nice. Just costs a bit of money most people don;t want to spend on it as it is neither a speaker or an amp ;p
Jack Prick a good amp will bring the best out of any speakers, that is true, but only within the limitations of that speaker. It is feasible to have a pair of speakets that sound terrible with some amps, but superb with higher performing amps. My best advice to you, don’t rush into anything, have loads of listening sessions. Visit lots of dealers, even if that means travelling outside of your local area. Speak with the manufacturer, see how customer friendly they are, if they won’t talk to you directly, ask yourself, why? Buy with your ears, don’t be over influenced by others opinions. It’s you that’s going to be listening to that system for years to come, not them. Be guided buy specifications but not ruled by them, they often don’t reflect the actual listening experience. If a manufacturer has had the same component in production for many years, chances are it’s a good component which has stood the test of time. Manufacturers who regularly update their products are likely only making minor cosmetic changes. Don’t buy expensive cables. They may make a difference, but are not worth those extra pounds. Save those extra pounds and invest then in better components. Don’t buy cheap cables or interconnects, by sensibly priced ones. Don’t spend too much time or money on room treatment, spend it on better electronics. If you ever move, you can take your equipment with you, but you can’t take your room. Never spend more than you can actually afford. If your not already with a partner, find one that has the same enthusiasm for the hobby. Believe you me, ‘WAF’ Wife Acceptance Factor can be a major issue. If you’ve young children? Wait until they are older before investing any serious money, unless you have the luxury of a secure listening room. Kids have a nasty habit of putting sticky sweets, drinks and sharp objects where they do the most damage! Most of all, enjoy the music.
@@howardskeivys4184 You can bring a lot of room treatments with you, it's the extreme stuff that is tailor made for the specific room that you'd be hard pressed to bring it all
Rennie Ash everyone has an opinion, here’s mine/. 2 channel audio is an illusion, it requires the suspension of disbelief. That is why reducing sonic reflections in your listening environment is detrimental to the recording where sonic reflections were unavoidable. If you want to reproduce music and not experience room reflections, use good closed overear headphones. No? Not the same is it? Because you’ve eliminated those room reflections which you would experience at a live gig. Isn’t that the illusion your sound system is trying to reproduce?
@@howardskeivys4184 Headphones can sound very good, especially since there aren't reflections. You can slightly mix the two channels if you want to get a more "stereo" sound. Proper treatment of the room is best imo. You treat reflections that cause issue, and diffuse the rest to create a nice ambience. Completely untreated rooms can sound a bit "congested" and unless you have a larger space, it sounds horrible to me. i.e. you don't have live gigs in a 4x3m room. Some of us have to deal with such small rooms. But I still get a nice sound with some treatment of it. You can also still get a decent stereo "illusion" if you do the whole sit in the perfect spot thing. I've yet to hear drummers and singers in such specific spots as people frequently describe in just about all systems I've listened to.
Buy source first keeping speakers to pair in mind. Buy speakers first keeping in mind what source will be synergistic. Choose either always keeping the other in mind asking with what room and how you plan to position, where you will sit, how far from the walls, etc. The whole thing has to be planned holistically rather than in isolation
Wow, Adrian you pick the best topics! Also, Big V has mentioned the holy grail word in Hi Fi - Synergy. Jay was very smart and actually just sided with Vilip. Yeah, why make a two side debate into 3. Any audiophile will tell you everything makes a difference, but a truly seasoned audiophile can understand the subtleties between upgrading the source and speakers. From my point of view, upgrading the source is intrinsically more subtle, more like changing the interpretation of the performance but keeping the same venue and performers. Changing the speakers is a little more drastic, keeping the above analogy, it's like changing the performers or even instruments. So its interaction with the venue is another key factor on the new sound too! Cheers from HK and great to see you on your videos!
My thinking is that the room and your preferred music preferences and listening volume, along with your budget determines the range of your speaker choices. With this in hand, you may then work your way up or down the component chain that will delivery what you will hear to the speakers and then through them to you. I agree that some will argue to start from the other end and work your way to the speakers, either way it will still come down to the room and your preferred music preferences and listening volume, along with your budget. The difference between these two ways doing things is that more than likely you will allocate more money on the components closer to where you started. To which, I would say, in deciding where to start, ask yourself the following questions: -How likely will I be moving in the next 3 to five years? -Where (what components) do I believe the biggest technological changes and advancements will occur in the next 2 to 5 years? -What components are likely to become more affordable in that time, either new or preowned? The answers to these questions, will help you to determine where you most likely should start off from, where you will most likely be willing to spend more money on, and, what you will most likely be looking to upgrade as your budget permits, technological advancement makes worthwhile and your listening experience and tastes guide you to. Lastly, remember there is no perfect audio system, regardless of the time and money that you spent on them, they are all compromises. However there is one that for at least a given moment in time you will be happy to listen to and will help you to better understand what you like, what you do not like, what you can live with and will inform you where you may want to go to next. When you are starting out, you may not believe this, but trust me this will change over time, so do not try to get it right the first time and stress yourself out in the process.
I was always a speaker first over my first 20 years but it always required synergy with the gear. Too often an impulse buy speaker fell down with not enough power, bright recordings, poor dynamics in the room or just DACS that were too harsh. One equipment change always created more problems and more subsequent purchases or fixes. I then learned a lot building out when V sold me a great pre amp. I got tube monoblocks and then dual REL subs. Now I had enough power, a slightly warmer amp section but not too coloured and almost every speaker from $50-5000 I have tried in the system work so well. I wasn’t picking at faults with every speaker. I was hearing the differences each speaker brings. Hearing the midrange, the tweeter, details and soundstage. I could find my preference. Dynamics were always the obvious differences but with the amp and subs in place you never lack bottom end with the smallest speakers tested.
If the source and amplification fail to meet a certain threshold of quality, no speaker is going to make it sound good. Once your source and amplification attain the ability to provide the signal with dynamics, lack of distortion, and tonal accuracy, then consider playing around with different speakers.
First engage with the sound signature of a speaker and choose it. Then find a source that enhance what you like about that speaker and attenuate what you don't like that mutch about it.
This is an old video but I'm new to this channel and the question is very interesting. I believe that Ivor Tiefenbaum is correct in the matter of source. First I will say that speaker can't stand alone, it must be speakers and amplifier. If you have a fixed amount of money for your set, I would go for best equipment in the source, then amplifier (know I wrote it was connected to the speakers) and lastly speakers. We once compared a Sondek LP12, together with Majik amplifier, and Linn Kaber. Sound great. But then we took the LP12 together with the Karin preamp, the Klout poweramp and a set of Linn Kan. This was much greater and even more when we put in an extra Klout in the set. Therefore my point of view is Source first, next preamp etc. But of course you can easily go the other way. I'm in love with the Sonus Faber Olympic Nova 1 or perhaps 2. Some day I will get a pair and find the most suitable amplifier (for my wallet) etc. together with the LP12 and some streamer. I love small speakers, the idea that if you just put great amplifiers behind and you will (most offen) get an "out of the box" experience :-)
I say all. Amp, source and speakers. If I can prioritize I will choose amp and speaker as priority. We can live with lesser quality source. As most sound pretty decent nowadays. If it’s only 1 component then I say speakers. Most affordable amps sound good enough nowadays too.
Absolutely. If your amp is the weak link then you will never be satisfied with the speakers. Start with a reasonable source. If you have to purchase in stages start with a quality source that doesn't break the bank. Start with something like a Schitt Mani for a phono stage and a Modi DAC for sources. There are others of course. When you have your sources then look for an amplifier that will drive your speakers with enough bass and resolution that the amp won't a bottle neck preventing you from being able to hear your speakers. Now you have to tune your listening area so that you know where to put your speakers to get a good sound-stage. Get advice if you have to. At this point you have a foundation where you can look for speakers and you won't be saying "nothing sounds good when I audition it at home!!!" Now you can build your system following the method to work your way from the speakers back to the source. I was trying to follow the advice to start with the speakers and work back to my sources. What kept happening was that I would find a speaker get to the point where I wanted to audition it at home and nothing sounded right. I couldn't get anything to sound alive at home. Finally I asked a store if I could bring my amp in the next time I came in. I discovered that even though my amp had lots of power it didn't have the control over the speakers compared to the amps I had been listening to. I had my speakers in the store along with my amp. I discovered that one of the other amps I had been listening to had a synergy with my speakers that was astonishing to me. It was like I had never heard my speakers until then. I ordered the amp on the spot and I haven't looked back.
Robert lewko ... funny thing for me is ... I ended up preferring the Harbeth P3ESR in my system. Prefer it more than the much more expensive Marten Duke 2. 95% of the time I use the P3ESR and not the Marten Duke 2. 😬 The Harbeths are paired with the Audia Flight FLS10 + Cary Audio SLP-05 (NOS tubes) + Cary Audio CD500/Mytek Brooklyn Bridge. So my Harbeth speakers are the cheapest component in the chain but it’s all about the sound that we want. 😂
I would imagine,if going the way of separates,you would get the best preamplifier you could afford,followed by the best amp you could afford then whatever source,and last your speakers
Source 100%. I have tried speaker upgrades multiple times and have always come back to my tried and true Monitor Audios. I have had other speaker that cost over twice the price of my Monitor Audios and never felt I was getting an upgrade. I upgraded my DAC recently from a Hegel internal DAC to a Auralic Dac/streamer and the difference was staggering. Everything improved, better imaging, instrument separation, smoother, less grainy, greater detail, more extended highs and It is also an excellant streamer and preamp. This is probably the best value upgrade I had in my HIFI journey so far.
The auralic vega has the Tesla 1 streaming platform, whereas the auralic aries g2 has the Tesla 2 platform and sounds much better than Tesla 1 streaming on the g1.
Speaker first. The reason is that sources change very quickly. Look at streamers. But speakers are more likely to be around a lot longer without real significant changes.
My vote is for source first with digital being the best example. A great file will make most systems sound good. A bad file will deflate the performance of most systems. Ask 10 audiophiles the same question and get 6 different answers in most cases. Pretty common. It's all about personal preferences and budgets.
Good discussion, synergy is the way iv'e come to believe in. I currently am running a pair of Klipsch bookshelf speakers with a SVS sealed subwoffer, Emotiva DAC and 1988 NAD power amplifier. Only digital sources: computer, CD, streaming. I find that the older amplifier smooths out the possible harshness of the horn speakers and digital sources. Just my experience.
Rarely anyone talks about the room. Not only the acoustics but the essentials like the size and shape. There is hardly anyone who will say: hey ladies and gents this speaker is for big room, this is for the huge one, this is for the 300 square feet one. No one speaks about real life room placement of the speakers. not everyone have separate listening room with ideal proportion etc. I think that every competent audiophile reviewer should spend 2-3 minutes to talk about this before even start to talk about the speakers or amplification. 90% of the people are watching this kind of YT channels just before they decide what equipment to purchase but rarely anyone considers their real world room they just want the speaker that sounds best for the money that they are willing to pay not taking in account the placement of their equipment. This should be educational videos not only technical and professional.
That's a good question my first good system in 1973 was Bose 901s fair traded price was $576 but I bought the used only year old with stands n custom made lift,to make them wear level.Sony Str 7065 Recevier $350 from Crazy Eddie's Bklyn NY .Months later bought Technics SL 1300 with Shure 100 cart $450.I could of bought JBL 100s for $400 but got 901s cheaper. I could of sold the JBLs for $1,000 today...lol.
Speakers make the biggest difference, second is your room, third is your power amp if you play digital music or your record player if you play vinyl. But obviously, your source material ultimately sets a limit and anything can ruin the signal if it’s poorly designed.
Speakers of course. In fact, source is what I spend the least money on. Reason being is simple, anytime you do an audition, it is the source that makes the least difference in sound quality. Say CD players for example, sometimes you would be really pushing it to hear any difference if at all. To me, is either the amp or speakers. Personally, I would go for the amp first because the amp will dictate what speakers you should get in terms of drivability as well as balancing of sound nature.
I feel like choosing the right speakers is a nightmare online. All the reviewers tends to test 400$ speakers like the Elac with 2000$++ Amps and says this is a bargain for beginners. Totally false ! That's why i chose a 500$ power speaker that i liked in a store. I knew what i was getting from the jump. (I'll update later but it was a good start) Sources (450 turntable, 50$ old cd player) interconnects + power supply = 500$ and for me it was the biggest jump in quality ever. All this to say on 1500$ budget i spent less than 1/3 on speakers and i'm glad because my friend who had a nicer system don't have a clean sound like mine. The power supply and interconnects are very important. I feel like my system is more balanced. My friend has to spend 1k more to clean is power.
I always started with some deal ona piece from an audiophile buddy, then pay to equal it in quality - so I was usually at one third high quality and then just needed 2 pieces (give or take, tt cartridges) - once the piece was a SONy Dat,. once as pair of Boston Acoustics, another time an SAE power amp
@@mehulvekaria4844 absolutely true, that's why equalizing (i.e. picking and mixing gear and also cables, which are equalizers) shouldnt be a sin in Hi-Fi,. since different ears are sensible to difference frequencies in different ways.
Someone may have stated this already, but your system is only as good as your weakest piece. For myself, when I think I have achieved the most pleasing sound out of my system, I inevitably grow tired or bored of it and have to change it up.
I’m old school and when I got into audio I was taught that the source components were paramount. To a degree, that is true, but over the years I have learned that regardless of how good your electronics are, if your speakers aren’t able to accurately and fully convert into audible sound the signals your electronics are feeding them, then you’re not making the most of your electronics. That is why, I would always advocate that you should get the best speakers your budget allows. If you upgrade your electronics later, chances are they will make those speakers you invested in, sound even better. Strangely enough, the most expensive component in my current system, by a huge margin is my amp. I’ve recently upgraded my entire system. Compared to when I first got into audio bin the eighties, you now get far more ‘bang for your buck’ more so with speakers than anything else, which is why I ended spending more on the amp!
Leaving a comment before i watch video , I have always said source ! Preamp and DAC first for me , That has a netural sound that way i can really disguish a speakers sound signature
Sorry to say guys but the room accustic is totally a mess for this kind of discussions! Sometimes it’s really difficult to understand. So please upgrade your room accustic to match your requirement of being „Audio Excellence“.
Hi Adrian, thanks for your prompt feedback! My complain was about the poor room accustic which gave me (and maybe others as well) a Hard time to hear you clearly. Either this was due to the room or the misplaced Mikrophone, I don‘t know. Maybe you can double check next time, thanks!
@@adrianlow2114 The mic where it was, picked up quite a bit of lower mid and bass reverberations, which can be reduced by adding bass absorbers, or by changing mic setup. Eg could use a wired mic to be passed around, or wireless, or wearable setups, or 3 directional mics etc :)
These days, it’s much easier to get away with an inexpensive digital source, say a Bluesound Node 2i or Mac Mini, then external DAC.........., then select an amp that drives ones room, then speakers. Yet ideally it’s the choice of ones cables | power cord | isolation devices which in my mind make or break the system, with the pair of IC’s on ones source ( in this case, from ones DAC - integrated, or preamp ) whether pure copper | silver | silver plated copper, which brings about the best from ones chosen speakers makes for a greater sense of synergy, as the speakers will tell the end user which way the should be voiced, if the high end extension is rolled off?, then silver plated copper goes a very long way in assisting soft dome tweeters in correcting said balance.
I got suspicious of this post right away - i did not even have to look at it... ...just listen to room acoustics of this interview. Out of control room reflections all over the place... They even have a flat marble wall... do not get me started with why this is a problem... At same time there is an insane LP table, the kind that sells for who knows how much... I am not going to put this equipment down, but until you deal with elephant in the room: the room! this conversation is a non starter. There is way too much money in audio business and not enough paying attention to the basics of the sound. 1. speaker placement 2. room acoustic 3. room acoustic 4. speakers 5. all the rest....
IMAAGING & presence of bass are both down to speaker choice & speaker placement in a way IMO that source is not - no bass & you're stuck Imaging after all is what brought me & many others in
Honestly, I'm not sure this question even makes sense anymore. 30 years ago, cheap gear really sounded like garbage, but now you can get really good sound on the front AND back end without spending too much. For around $600 or less, you can get very fine speakers from ELAC, Klipsch, Triangle, etc. For the same money or less you can get a great DAC or a pretty decent turntable. Diminishing returns apply at a MUCH lower price point than they used to.
The problem as I see it is that most people I’ve been around spend the lion’s share on the speakers, compromise on the amps and the source. By so doing, they will never realize the full potential of the speakers they have bought. Seems like a waste of money to me. Balance and synergy are the key ingredients of a satisfying system.
The differences between spottily playing on cell phone through a $100 DAC and 192 khz high resolution files playing on a $5k high-end DAC/streamer are so incredibly subtle whereas the difference between entry-level bookshelf speakers and a Nice, not even necessarily high-end, full range floor-standers or good stand-mount speakers with a good woofer will knock your socks off by comparison. When you throw vinyl into the mix, you get a larger differences but it's more a matter of preference than being bettor or worse.
Source first. I spent so much time chasing down problems in my equipment and moving speakers around.... when I dialed in my source everything else was so much easier and forgiving.
I started my journey in to audio perfection in the mid 80’s. I was talked into believing that the big money should go onto the source. I employed that strategy for many years, with some validity. If your source is poor, that, will ultimately transpose to what your amp and speakers can resolve.
It has taken me over 30 years to appreciate that no matter how good your source equipment, your amplification, your interconnects, if your speakers aren’t up to the job your system will under perform.
I, after 35 plus years of experimentation and trial and error, have concluded that priority should lean toward the speakers.
Allow your dealer to help you match your components, but, always remember that it is you who will be listening to that system for years to come, so, your preference is paramount.
Speakers and room first imo. Of course, get enough power for your speakers too if you plan to turn it up :)
Room depends as sometimes people don't want to have treatments hanging around, however you can make them look nice. Just costs a bit of money most people don;t want to spend on it as it is neither a speaker or an amp ;p
Jack Prick a good amp will bring the best out of any speakers, that is true, but only within the limitations of that speaker. It is feasible to have a pair of speakets that sound terrible with some amps, but superb with higher performing amps. My best advice to you, don’t rush into anything, have loads of listening sessions. Visit lots of dealers, even if that means travelling outside of your local area. Speak with the manufacturer, see how customer friendly they are, if they won’t talk to you directly, ask yourself, why? Buy with your ears, don’t be over influenced by others opinions. It’s you that’s going to be listening to that system for years to come, not them. Be guided buy specifications but not ruled by them, they often don’t reflect the actual listening experience. If a manufacturer has had the same component in production for many years, chances are it’s a good component which has stood the test of time. Manufacturers who regularly update their products are likely only making minor cosmetic changes. Don’t buy expensive cables. They may make a difference, but are not worth those extra pounds. Save those extra pounds and invest then in better components. Don’t buy cheap cables or interconnects, by sensibly priced ones. Don’t spend too much time or money on room treatment, spend it on better electronics. If you ever move, you can take your equipment with you, but you can’t take your room. Never spend more than you can actually afford. If your not already with a partner, find one that has the same enthusiasm for the hobby. Believe you me, ‘WAF’ Wife Acceptance Factor can be a major issue. If you’ve young children? Wait until they are older before investing any serious money, unless you have the luxury of a secure listening room. Kids have a nasty habit of putting sticky sweets, drinks and sharp objects where they do the most damage! Most of all, enjoy the music.
@@howardskeivys4184 You can bring a lot of room treatments with you, it's the extreme stuff that is tailor made for the specific room that you'd be hard pressed to bring it all
Rennie Ash everyone has an opinion, here’s mine/. 2 channel audio is an illusion, it requires the suspension of disbelief. That is why reducing sonic reflections in your listening environment is detrimental to the recording where sonic reflections were unavoidable. If you want to reproduce music and not experience room reflections, use good closed overear headphones. No? Not the same is it? Because you’ve eliminated those room reflections which you would experience at a live gig. Isn’t that the illusion your sound system is trying to reproduce?
@@howardskeivys4184 Headphones can sound very good, especially since there aren't reflections. You can slightly mix the two channels if you want to get a more "stereo" sound.
Proper treatment of the room is best imo. You treat reflections that cause issue, and diffuse the rest to create a nice ambience.
Completely untreated rooms can sound a bit "congested" and unless you have a larger space, it sounds horrible to me.
i.e. you don't have live gigs in a 4x3m room. Some of us have to deal with such small rooms. But I still get a nice sound with some treatment of it. You can also still get a decent stereo "illusion" if you do the whole sit in the perfect spot thing.
I've yet to hear drummers and singers in such specific spots as people frequently describe in just about all systems I've listened to.
Buy source first keeping speakers to pair in mind. Buy speakers first keeping in mind what source will be synergistic. Choose either always keeping the other in mind asking with what room and how you plan to position, where you will sit, how far from the walls, etc. The whole thing has to be planned holistically rather than in isolation
Wow, Adrian you pick the best topics! Also, Big V has mentioned the holy grail word in Hi Fi - Synergy. Jay was very smart and actually just sided with Vilip. Yeah, why make a two side debate into 3. Any audiophile will tell you everything makes a difference, but a truly seasoned audiophile can understand the subtleties between upgrading the source and speakers. From my point of view, upgrading the source is intrinsically more subtle, more like changing the interpretation of the performance but keeping the same venue and performers. Changing the speakers is a little more drastic, keeping the above analogy, it's like changing the performers or even instruments. So its interaction with the venue is another key factor on the new sound too! Cheers from HK and great to see you on your videos!
My thinking is that the room and your preferred music preferences and listening volume, along with your budget determines the range of your speaker choices. With this in hand, you may then work your way up or down the component chain that will delivery what you will hear to the speakers and then through them to you.
I agree that some will argue to start from the other end and work your way to the speakers, either way it will still come down to the room and your preferred music preferences and listening volume, along with your budget. The difference between these two ways doing things is that more than likely you will allocate more money on the components closer to where you started. To which, I would say, in deciding where to start, ask yourself the following questions:
-How likely will I be moving in the next 3 to five years?
-Where (what components) do I believe the biggest technological changes and advancements will occur in the next 2 to 5 years?
-What components are likely to become more affordable in that time, either new or preowned?
The answers to these questions, will help you to determine where you most likely should start off from, where you will most likely be willing to spend more money on, and, what you will most likely be looking to upgrade as your budget permits, technological advancement makes worthwhile and your listening experience and tastes guide you to.
Lastly, remember there is no perfect audio system, regardless of the time and money that you spent on them, they are all compromises. However there is one that for at least a given moment in time you will be happy to listen to and will help you to better understand what you like, what you do not like, what you can live with and will inform you where you may want to go to next.
When you are starting out, you may not believe this, but trust me this will change over time, so do not try to get it right the first time and stress yourself out in the process.
Fantastic advice 👍💪🙏🏻
I was always a speaker first over my first 20 years but it always required synergy with the gear. Too often an impulse buy speaker fell down with not enough power, bright recordings, poor dynamics in the room or just DACS that were too harsh. One equipment change always created more problems and more subsequent purchases or fixes.
I then learned a lot building out when V sold me a great pre amp. I got tube monoblocks and then dual REL subs. Now I had enough power, a slightly warmer amp section but not too coloured and almost every speaker from $50-5000 I have tried in the system work so well. I wasn’t picking at faults with every speaker. I was hearing the differences each speaker brings. Hearing the midrange, the tweeter, details and soundstage. I could find my preference. Dynamics were always the obvious differences but with the amp and subs in place you never lack bottom end with the smallest speakers tested.
Nice topic ! I wanted to suggest an addition : Source, Speakers + (Power supply interconnects).
If the source and amplification fail to meet a certain threshold of quality, no speaker is going to make it sound good. Once your source and amplification attain the ability to provide the signal with dynamics, lack of distortion, and tonal accuracy, then consider playing around with different speakers.
And if your speaker is bad then no amount of source and amp will make it sound good
Wow 😯
First engage with the sound signature of a speaker and choose it. Then find a source that enhance what you like about that speaker and attenuate what you don't like that mutch about it.
This is an old video but I'm new to this channel and the question is very interesting. I believe that Ivor Tiefenbaum is correct in the matter of source.
First I will say that speaker can't stand alone, it must be speakers and amplifier.
If you have a fixed amount of money for your set, I would go for best equipment in the source, then amplifier (know I wrote it was connected to the speakers) and lastly speakers. We once compared a Sondek LP12, together with Majik amplifier, and Linn Kaber. Sound great. But then we took the LP12 together with the Karin preamp, the Klout poweramp and a set of Linn Kan. This was much greater and even more when we put in an extra Klout in the set. Therefore my point of view is Source first, next preamp etc.
But of course you can easily go the other way. I'm in love with the Sonus Faber Olympic Nova 1 or perhaps 2. Some day I will get a pair and find the most suitable amplifier (for my wallet) etc. together with the LP12 and some streamer. I love small speakers, the idea that if you just put great amplifiers behind and you will (most offen) get an "out of the box" experience :-)
Question: would a sub help electrostatic speakers? Or will it just mess the sound up. And how are the mids on electrostatic speakers?
You guys are great !
I say all. Amp, source and speakers. If I can prioritize I will choose amp and speaker as priority.
We can live with lesser quality source. As most sound pretty decent nowadays.
If it’s only 1 component then I say speakers. Most affordable amps sound good enough nowadays too.
Absolutely. If your amp is the weak link then you will never be satisfied with the speakers.
Start with a reasonable source. If you have to purchase in stages start with a quality source that doesn't break the bank. Start with something like a Schitt Mani for a phono stage and a Modi DAC for sources. There are others of course.
When you have your sources then look for an amplifier that will drive your speakers with enough bass and resolution that the amp won't a bottle neck preventing you from being able to hear your speakers.
Now you have to tune your listening area so that you know where to put your speakers to get a good sound-stage. Get advice if you have to.
At this point you have a foundation where you can look for speakers and you won't be saying "nothing sounds good when I audition it at home!!!" Now you can build your system following the method to work your way from the speakers back to the source.
I was trying to follow the advice to start with the speakers and work back to my sources. What kept happening was that I would find a speaker get to the point where I wanted to audition it at home and nothing sounded right. I couldn't get anything to sound alive at home. Finally I asked a store if I could bring my amp in the next time I came in. I discovered that even though my amp had lots of power it didn't have the control over the speakers compared to the amps I had been listening to.
I had my speakers in the store along with my amp. I discovered that one of the other amps I had been listening to had a synergy with my speakers that was astonishing to me. It was like I had never heard my speakers until then. I ordered the amp on the spot and I haven't looked back.
Robert lewko ... funny thing for me is ... I ended up preferring the Harbeth P3ESR in my system. Prefer it more than the much more expensive Marten Duke 2. 95% of the time I use the P3ESR and not the Marten Duke 2. 😬
The Harbeths are paired with the Audia Flight FLS10 + Cary Audio SLP-05 (NOS tubes) + Cary Audio CD500/Mytek Brooklyn Bridge.
So my Harbeth speakers are the cheapest component in the chain but it’s all about the sound that we want. 😂
I would imagine,if going the way of separates,you would get the best preamplifier you could afford,followed by the best amp you could afford then whatever source,and last your speakers
Source 100%. I have tried speaker upgrades multiple times and have always come back to my tried and true Monitor Audios. I have had other speaker that cost over twice the price of my Monitor Audios and never felt I was getting an upgrade. I upgraded my DAC recently from a Hegel internal DAC to a Auralic Dac/streamer and the difference was staggering. Everything improved, better imaging, instrument separation, smoother, less grainy, greater detail, more extended highs and It is also an excellant streamer and preamp. This is probably the best value upgrade I had in my HIFI journey so far.
The auralic vega has the Tesla 1 streaming platform, whereas the auralic aries g2 has the Tesla 2 platform and sounds much better than Tesla 1 streaming on the g1.
So this opens up the question, active or passive speakers?
Too much technicality? Loudspeakers don’t play on their own as far as I know, so what’s the most important source?
Speaker first. The reason is that sources change very quickly. Look at streamers. But speakers are more likely to be around a lot longer without real significant changes.
My vote is for source first with digital being the best example. A great file will make most systems sound good. A bad file will deflate the performance of most systems. Ask 10 audiophiles the same question and get 6 different answers in most cases. Pretty common. It's all about personal preferences and budgets.
Good discussion, synergy is the way iv'e come to believe in. I currently am running a pair of Klipsch bookshelf speakers with a SVS sealed subwoffer, Emotiva DAC and 1988 NAD power amplifier. Only digital sources: computer, CD, streaming. I find that the older amplifier smooths out the possible harshness of the horn speakers and digital sources. Just my experience.
Rarely anyone talks about the room. Not only the acoustics but the essentials like the size and shape. There is hardly anyone who will say: hey ladies and gents this speaker is for big room, this is for the huge one, this is for the 300 square feet one. No one speaks about real life room placement of the speakers. not everyone have separate listening room with ideal proportion etc. I think that every competent audiophile reviewer should spend 2-3 minutes to talk about this before even start to talk about the speakers or amplification.
90% of the people are watching this kind of YT channels just before they decide what equipment to purchase but rarely anyone considers their real world room they just want the speaker that sounds best for the money that they are willing to pay not taking in account the placement of their equipment. This should be educational videos not only technical and professional.
Easy.. Loudspeakers first. Always loudspeakers first.
That's a good question my first good system in 1973 was Bose 901s fair traded price was $576 but I bought the used only year old with stands n custom made lift,to make them wear level.Sony Str 7065 Recevier $350 from Crazy Eddie's Bklyn NY .Months later bought Technics SL 1300 with Shure 100 cart $450.I could of bought JBL 100s for $400 but got 901s cheaper. I could of sold the JBLs for $1,000 today...lol.
Speakers make the biggest difference, second is your room, third is your power amp if you play digital music or your record player if you play vinyl. But obviously, your source material ultimately sets a limit and anything can ruin the signal if it’s poorly designed.
Speakers of course. In fact, source is what I spend the least money on. Reason being is simple, anytime you do an audition, it is the source that makes the least difference in sound quality. Say CD players for example, sometimes you would be really pushing it to hear any difference if at all. To me, is either the amp or speakers. Personally, I would go for the amp first because the amp will dictate what speakers you should get in terms of drivability as well as balancing of sound nature.
I feel like choosing the right speakers is a nightmare online. All the reviewers tends to test 400$ speakers like the Elac with 2000$++ Amps and says this is a bargain for beginners. Totally false !
That's why i chose a 500$ power speaker that i liked in a store. I knew what i was getting from the jump. (I'll update later but it was a good start)
Sources (450 turntable, 50$ old cd player)
interconnects + power supply = 500$ and for me it was the biggest jump in quality ever.
All this to say on 1500$ budget i spent less than 1/3 on speakers and i'm glad because my friend who had a nicer system don't have a clean sound like mine. The power supply and interconnects are very important. I feel like my system is more balanced. My friend has to spend 1k more to clean is power.
I agree with buying speakers online. I hate it! But we don’t have many options. Some stores don’t carry brands that I want to hear
I always started with some deal ona piece from an audiophile buddy, then pay to equal it in quality - so I was usually at one third high quality and then just needed 2 pieces (give or take, tt cartridges) - once the piece was a SONy Dat,. once as pair of Boston Acoustics, another time an SAE power amp
It's all about the speaker.
As for source... the recording makes the biggest difference.
Even the recording is very very important. Bad recording hurts
neither. The ROOM makes the biggest difference :)
True
Too right...
You got that right!
If we are talking about givens, your ears probably fall into a higher position then your listening room.
@@mehulvekaria4844 absolutely true, that's why equalizing (i.e. picking and mixing gear and also cables, which are equalizers) shouldnt be a sin in Hi-Fi,. since different ears are sensible to difference frequencies in different ways.
Someone may have stated this already, but your system is only as good as your weakest piece. For myself, when I think I have achieved the most pleasing sound out of my system, I inevitably grow tired or bored of it and have to change it up.
I’m old school and when I got into audio I was taught that the source components were paramount. To a degree, that is true, but over the years I have learned that regardless of how good your electronics are, if your speakers aren’t able to accurately and fully convert into audible sound the signals your electronics are feeding them, then you’re not making the most of your electronics. That is why, I would always advocate that you should get the best speakers your budget allows. If you upgrade your electronics later, chances are they will make those speakers you invested in, sound even better. Strangely enough, the most expensive component in my current system, by a huge margin is my amp. I’ve recently upgraded my entire system. Compared to when I first got into audio bin the eighties, you now get far more ‘bang for your buck’ more so with speakers than anything else, which is why I ended spending more on the amp!
Speakers makes the most difference
Speaker first, and find out what the speaker company use as amplifier to voice them, so I would know they are synergistic. Next would be the source.
Leaving a comment before i watch video , I have always said source ! Preamp and DAC first for me , That has a netural sound that way i can really disguish a speakers sound signature
That listening room sounds pretty reflective in this video. Is that on my end or yours?
Amplifier and speakers.
Sorry to say guys but the room accustic is totally a mess for this kind of discussions! Sometimes it’s really difficult to understand. So please upgrade your room accustic to match your requirement of being „Audio Excellence“.
Hi Adrian, thanks for your prompt feedback! My complain was about the poor room accustic which gave me (and maybe others as well) a Hard time to hear you clearly. Either this was due to the room or the misplaced Mikrophone, I don‘t know. Maybe you can double check next time, thanks!
@@adrianlow2114 The mic where it was, picked up quite a bit of lower mid and bass reverberations, which can be reduced by adding bass absorbers, or by changing mic setup. Eg could use a wired mic to be passed around, or wireless, or wearable setups, or 3 directional mics etc :)
No word from the young man ! Well Thats no good, i wanted his opion also!
Whichever is your weakest link.
Or what's annoying you most
These days, it’s much easier to get away with an inexpensive digital source, say a Bluesound Node 2i or Mac Mini, then external DAC.........., then select an amp that drives ones room, then speakers. Yet ideally it’s the choice of ones cables | power cord | isolation devices which in my mind make or break the system, with the pair of IC’s on ones source ( in this case, from ones DAC - integrated, or preamp ) whether pure copper | silver | silver plated copper, which brings about the best from ones chosen speakers makes for a greater sense of synergy, as the speakers will tell the end user which way the should be voiced, if the high end extension is rolled off?, then silver plated copper goes a very long way in assisting soft dome tweeters in correcting said balance.
I got suspicious of this post right away - i did not even have to look at it... ...just listen to room acoustics of this interview. Out of control room reflections all over the place... They even have a flat marble wall... do not get me started with why this is a problem...
At same time there is an insane LP table, the kind that sells for who knows how much... I am not going to put this equipment down, but until you deal with elephant in the room: the room! this conversation is a non starter.
There is way too much money in audio business and not enough paying attention to the basics of the sound. 1. speaker placement 2. room acoustic 3. room acoustic 4. speakers 5. all the rest....
Vilip is one thirsty guy!
Dump your hard earned cash on quality loudspeakers for the most, immediate improvement in sq...
IMAAGING & presence of bass are both down to speaker choice & speaker placement in a way IMO that source is not - no bass & you're stuck
Imaging after all is what brought me & many others in
Honestly, I'm not sure this question even makes sense anymore. 30 years ago, cheap gear really sounded like garbage, but now you can get really good sound on the front AND back end without spending too much.
For around $600 or less, you can get very fine speakers from ELAC, Klipsch, Triangle, etc. For the same money or less you can get a great DAC or a pretty decent turntable. Diminishing returns apply at a MUCH lower price point than they used to.
My journey begins at thrift stores .
The problem as I see it is that most people I’ve been around spend the lion’s share on the speakers, compromise on the amps and the source. By so doing, they will never realize the full potential of the speakers they have bought. Seems like a waste of money to me. Balance and synergy are the key ingredients of a satisfying system.
Guy on the left looks like a priest with a hat?