When Red mentions how nobody cares about Rebel Moon, I was like 'oh yeah, Rebel Moon is a thing', because I had forgotten it exists. And then, about a minute later, when she mentions it again, I was like 'Oh yeah, Rebel Moon is a thing', because I had *already* forgotten it exists.
@@Anergyneoh wow I remember hearing about it a while ago before it came out thinking “I should go see that” and I completely forgot about it until mentioned here, it’s so forgetful it’s like a cognitohazard
@@Anergyne To be fair, the only thing I've seen of it myself has been the merch sitting on the clearance rack of my local Walmart. And every time I do the first thing that jumps into my head is "That's just 40K stuff with the serial numbers filed off".
"Why did they fight in lava?" Well, my answer is: Because they show the saviour figures descent into quite literal hell. One drags the other down. And only one climbs back out watching his former friend being consumed by literal flames of hatred. Not subtle. But very effective.
Even besides the obvious symbolism, rule of cool applies just as well. Why did Yoda and Sidious fight in the Senate? Because A. it represents the final struggle for democracy v. totalitarianism between the Jedi and Sith, and B. it's cool as shit, man.
@@thirdcoinedgeI will admit that I do find it rad as shit to see Yoda throw down in most situations. Can it look goofy? Yes, of course. Do I still think it kicks ass when Yoda pulls out a Lightsaber and becomes Jedi Master Splinter? Absolutely!
If Red's brain is split into three ways between Miyazaki References, ReBoot References, and Last Airbender References. Blue's brain is split the same way between Venice, Domes, and Star Wars memes.
The sentence "everybody is a hero, nobody is enough" for the clone wars has absolutely floored me because, yes, holy hell, THAT. Everyone in that show, all the jedi, clones, side characters, even many of the villains; every single one of them is at the top of their game. They are all living out their finest hours, all becoming the versions of themselves that will echo across time, but it's not enough. It was never going to be enough. They were, every last one of them, doomed from the word go.
The point that they truly are at the top of their game is so good - it makes me think of the High Republic. It is at the height of their power that someone is most vulnerable. These are warriors at the point that they can fight armies, crumble buildings, where the soldiers are perfect machines of lethality, and where the politics are literally galactic. And what they don't know is that the Evil is just as Grand. Careful, brilliant, lethal, and utterly, irretrievably, perfectly Evil. And he will bring them all down.
The amusing thing about mentioning the Geneva Conventions in relation to the Tartakovsky Clone Wars is that the 3D Clone Wars actually quite literally and _directly_ shows Anakin violating them right in the _first episode._ He pretends to surrender, before using that as a way to spring a trap. Which is a war crime.
@JimCullen And the best part is he does it *again* in season 7 to reintroduce him to the audience. Anakin's war crimes are so iconic that they have the nostalgia factor.
That's a ridiculous statement. Unless you are saying Anakin can't violate the Geneva Concentions because Star Wars doesn't exist, you've chosen an arbitrary line. Star wars only exists in the context of our reality, English is Galactic Basic. It doesn't exist outside of our reality
That’s the real kernel of SW fandom. The OT was lightning in a bottle and was objectively really really great (well, 2 outta the three movies) and everyone fell in love with THAT SW, and everything since has been chasing that high. It turns out that SW, like 99% of the stuff out there that has Star Wars slapped on it, is just not that good, let alone great. So, to be a fan is to suffer forever, believing in hope but never finding it again.
@@russellharrell2747 3/3 movies. People didn’t like ROTJ because of pacing of whatever, but pretending that that the growth of Luke’s character, the redemption of Anakin, and the subsequent destruction of evil wasn’t MASTERFUL is absurd. Also I’d say 4 of the 9 Star Wars movies could be classified as masterpieces(4,5,6, and Rogue One), and at least ROTS was decent. Finally I’d argue that a solid majority of Star Wars novels(ROTS, Labyrinth of Evil, Shatterpoint, Path of Destruction, and Darth Plagueis), comics series, and video games(KOTOR) were brilliant.
"This story happened a long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away. It is already over. Nothing can be done to change it." is gonna be a line that keeps me up at night, and would've given kid me several nightmares if I read it.
It continues a few lines later into something more heartwarming tho. "A strange thing about stories- Though all this happened so long ago and so far away that words cannot describe the time or the distance, it is also happening right now. Right here. It is happening as you read these words." Blue was not joking about the heavy handed operatic dramatic prose, and it is amazing in this book
I mean... not really? I honestly don't get how that line is supposed to invoke fear or dread. Because, if it's already over, then... that's just like literally every other finished story in all of fiction. The first Harry Potter book's events are already over by the time you pick up the book, but that's a big "duh". Heck, when you turn on any Star Wars movie, the events in the movie are already unchangeable by you or the characters, but that's an obvious given. I'm not trying to hate, I just genuinely don't see how that line is meant to be thought-provoking.
@@mrreyes5004And that's ok. It's honestly hard to explain it. It's an emotion that is birthed from just certain kinds of imaginative minds. To me, at least it fills that same space as the thought of that nihilistic idea of being so small on a cosmic scale.
To similar end, I love how trope talk lends to a realization at 45:30. The description of Anakin’s inner fear as a “dragon” is literally perfect, since the trope name for a villainous powerhouse second-in-command IS “the dragon”! Through his evolution into Darth Vader, Anakin is consumed by and becomes the dragon, fear personified. SO GOOD!
"Clone Troopers are badass" reminded me of the clip I saw recently from the 2D Clone Wars of Grievous running down the side of the building chasing the elevator with Palpatine, and the clone trooper in the elevator loading his rocket launcher and blasting Grievous. The fact that (without saying a word because that's how those cartoons work) the trooper saw Grievous, thought, "Yeah, using this rocket on infantry is the correct amount of force" and calmly applied said force is badass and hilarious in equal measure.
Well, silent movies did have accompanying sound tracks and even sound effects (usually done live in the theater), so if you turn off the dialogue it would be fine.
@@rorythomas9469 i can vouch that japanese works REALLY well here. The dub has some SERIOUS star power, and honestly, with all the japanese influence the series already has, it becomes peak anime during the good parts, and decent during the melodramatic politicking
One of the things that I love about the novelization is that it actually gives another reason for Anakin's suspect decision making: he had not been sleeping, and had been using the force to sustain himself, so he wouldn't have to see the visions of Padme dying.
Ok but to be fair when I’m eepy I don’t suddenly want to overthrow democracy and install a fascist regime, but that’s a cool character bit. I gotta read this book
@@eclipserepeater2466 Oh that's actually a really good parallel: (spoilers below from as late as the Blood Runs in the Family OOTS storyline) Anakin takes on the power of the dark side in order to protect his loved ones and is reviled by them for that very decision. He furthermore causes devastation across the galaxy for his decision, and nearly kills his own children. V takes on the power of the fiends in order to protect their loved ones and is reviled by them for that very decision. They furthermore cause devastation across the Western continent for their decision, and would've killed Elan if Tarquin had had just one more child. Wonder how much further you could go with it, and whether Burlew was thinking about this.
It's me! I'm a person who read the novelization before the movie as wee child, and definitely colored my perception of Episode 3 for a very long time, because I can never not imagine the added context and weight that the novel added to each scene. Even as a beaten-down adult Star Wars fan I hold a much higher opinion of Revenge of the Sith than the movie itself perhaps deserves. It was so liberating to hear about the dragon and the framing device of the light and dark again after so many years. I'll add one more amazing bit that the novel has: there a recurring line "This is how it feels like to be Anakin Skywalker right now" that shows up whenever the narration delves into his head whenever he does something incredible, like landing the front half of the Invisible Hand or flying a Jedi Starfighter (which is implied to be a kind of superhuman feat to control.) This is the passage that describes him waking up on the slab after Mustifar: This is how it feels to be Anakin Skywalker, forever: You can hear yourself breathing. It comes hard, and harsh, and it scrapes nerves already raw, but you cannot stop it. You can never stop it. You cannot even slow it down. You don't even have lungs anymore. Mechanisms hardwired into your chest breathe for you. They will pump oxygen into your bloodstream, forever.
I've never once read the novelization. I watched it as a kid, loved it and still really love the movie. That said, for me it's probably TCW and other newer stuff that colours my perception of it. Including the characterization of Vader. People don't seem to care for Obi Wan Kenobi (the show, that is, not the character) but I feel like it brought a lot of that across too.
56:54 What Padme says is actually "So this is how *liberty* dies." The republic is not being killed from without. It's the democracy turned against itself, that's why there's thunderous applause.
This line really infuriates me because it's too good of an idea to not be better explored on this galactic, epic scale. I think this is the coolest idea that never got well developed in the movies - how democracies fall
Also, the Republic is in no way a democracy. Most senators are appointed by the governments of the planets they represent, many of which are monarchies or otherwise non-democratic. We've also been given no indication that senators have voting power proportional to their constituencies' populations. To be fair to them, though, the logistics of making the Star Wars galaxy truly democratic are essentially impossible.
"This story happened a long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away. It is already over. Nothing can be done to change it." is unironically the hardest opener for a story I have ever heard
I have never been more prepared to watch a Detail Diatribe in my entire life. As Count Dooku once said, "I've been looking forward to this!" Prepare yourself for even more Star Wars memes and references once I actually finish watching the video!
I have not read the book, but I already knew the "The dark is generous, and it is patient, and it always wins - but in the heart of its strength lies weakness: one lone candle is enough to hold it back. Love is more than a candle. Love can ignite the stars." part of it, because it came up as a powerful quote, and I was like, this is from a Star Wars novelization??? Truly it sounds very impressive and I may need to read it now.
I own the book and cried multiple times because the prose isn’t reserved for extreme moments it’s scattered throughout the book. RotS novelization by Matt Stover my beloved
Do yourself a favor and read the novel. That quote is the payoff to a series of other passages where each of the things the dark is described as is explored. Stuff like how the dark is always there, the brightest lights casting the deepest shadows stuff. It spends the whole book talking about how inevitable the darkness is but ends with that quote to remind us that even in the darkest of places a single light can hold it back@@leithaziz2716
The dialogue in the prequels is definitely the manifestation of what the classic crew were talking about with the *original* versions of the movies before other people stepped in to say "George, no." Harrison Ford threatened to tie up George Lucas and force him to read his script at gunpoint *for a reason.*
Batman 1989 is one of the few movies I feel that ended up great because of creative control. Sometimes letting Tim Burton cook can lead to messy results if you give him too much creative freedom over the project. I don't dislike Batman Returns, but it is a much stranger film in general. And his later films only got worse.
One of my favorite episodes of Bad Batch follows a Senator trying to uncover a conspiracy, they do everything right and within the rules and it comes to nothing because at the end Palpatine comes in and turns their victory into his own. Because you can’t play by the rules anymore Palpatine writes them. There is only one option now, Rebellion.
Just as a note: At least on AO3, "Fix It" fics are fics not about fixing the story (like "I can do this better") but more like saving the world from disaster (like "They deserve better, let's give them that!"). It can be very rewarding because it both shows how much better things could have turned out while also contrasting how high the price paid was in the original universe.
Fix It Fics also can include Fics that don’t actually change any of the plot, but simply expand on it. Such as adding in filler between events to better flesh out certain characters or helping to better explain certain aspects/scenes in the original. In my opinion, this is the best type of Fix It Fic, since it can basically just end up being a better execution of a great concept. Or it can be a complete rewrite that simply uses the same bits of dialogue. Both ends of the spectrum.
@@JonathanMandrakeits not the fandoms as a whole. It’s the factions within fandoms. No group is a monolith, so there are toxic elements within all of them
@@Gloomdrake Well yes, but the story itself changes things too. With some stories, it is obvious that the fanfic will (if it is half decent) be better in a certain regard, such as reducing stereotyping or removing well known mistakes. With others, the story is so well liked that improving upon it will be inconceovable to most fans, and fanfics will instead explore other possibilities that focus on a different part of the world or shift things around to put things into a new context. Different story worlds just have different strengths when it comes to what you can do with Fanfics. Just take Star Wars for Example: For Prequel fanfics, there is a plethora of options of what to focus on, and the only thing that is really a given is that the Jedi are involved, and that the Mandos and Sith will probably have a role too. Yet when it come to the original trilogy, you'll very likely have Luke, Leia, Vader, Kenobi and the Emperor, and one of the first four will either be the protagonist or the protagonists lancer, while the last one is the antagonist. Sure, this is mostly describing the more popular fanfics, but it is those that have the largest impact. Lastly, while I can't imagine anyone sne trying to "fix" the story of Nimona, I can very well imagine many people trying to fix the story of Avatar the Way of Water. On the other hand, I can very well see people trying to fix the injustice of Nimona being so widely shunned and treated like a villain, while I doubt there would be any scenario where things go wrong for the characters in AtWoW that many people would try to fix.
Sword fighting person here sorry for coming at you: We absolutely fucking love the fencing in the Prince's Bride, because the "yada yadas" as Red puts it at 46:52 ARE real moves and forms and while it's not portrayed perfectly that is how actual sword fighting historically works. It's by far the best fencing in film and novel.
Anakin's fear being the dragon is very dramatic, but also funny a bit. Because as he turns to the dark side he embraces his fears and becomes them. Becoming the Dragon to Palpatine.
I like it because it’s also a literary joke. “The Dragon” is a trope term representing a villain’s competent second in command it’s a villainous lancer.
One of the things that I remember most from Stover's novelization is that Anakin was so desperate to stop the nightmares that he stopped sleeping. So he was sustaining himself with the force for weeks or months, and Palps exploited that to its fullest.
Just at the outset - this matches up eerily well with how Jason Todd fans see Jason Todd - there is arguably no good representation of the character, but every Jason fan has pieces they like from each version, and everyone cobbles together the perfect Jason in their heads that doesn't actually exist on any page.
@@pistaalkoholThat Jason is unfortunately not around for enough time for his views and ideas to have enough weight. If only the Red Hood webtoon could summon the courage to write him like that.
I think my favorite Jason I've experienced in outside-comics mediums is the Under the Red Hood movie. But it's less because of Jason's ideals, but moreso the emotional conflicts between him and Bruce. He's not mad at Bruce for his death, but feels betrayed that his death wouldn't go avenged. He confesses that if Bruce were to ever die, Jason would hunt his murder because he took him away. You feel bad for both people. The actors did a great job in general. To be frank, I don't even know what's the definitive take on Jason. The only other story I have to compare is the Arkham Knight game. And hoo boy, Jason is so much worse there.
I love the scene in the Novelisation of Anakin telling Windu about Palpatine. It's around four AM. Anakin bursts in. He's been crying, he's terrified, he's exhausted. It takes him a while to get anything out. Windu has to hold Anakin up. Windu keeps asking what's wrong, Skywalker, Skywalker, Skywalker. Finally, he says 'Anakin'! Anakin clutches his robes and looks up. 'I need to speak to Obi-Wan'. Scene cuts!!! The way Davis reads it. With the music. It's so heartbreaking! I love it!!! Everyone should read Plagiues
As someone who grew up speaking semi-proficient Cantonese, Backstroke of the West kills me *so* hard that I went on a rabbit hole to figure out why Dooku is called "the" and I think I figured it out and was so proud And simultaneously i facepalmed
@@jamiee7367 the best way I managed to piece it together and mind you... i'm like a casual cantonese speaker, and this is purely my theory... which is this: In that VERY VERY Specific scene where Ewan - Obi Wan is saying Dooku's name he says it so quickly he says almost like "duKu" introducing two Chinese syllables that sound like duKu 的 - Di - which can be directly translated to "of" 佢 - Ku - which an be directly translated to "him, her, his him" and most relevant for this "IT" duKu therefore translating it back is Count "Of it" Now if you're half-assing the translation how do you one word Count "of it" Count "the"
@@catherinepoteat I was wheezing too. I would love if someone could verify my theory because problem is I don’t write canto…. So idk if there is another character that might fit.
My biggest complaint about Episode III is how dirty they did Padme. We know from the deleted scenes that they wrote a whole storyline involving her basically being a founding member of what would become the Rebellion and the moral complications of walking the fine line between trying to save the Republic and being a traitor. Instead, she was pretty much just an inciting incident for Anakin to go to the dark side.
I disagree. You should probably refresh yourself on a movie you haven't seen in years before you make your hour and a half deconstructive critique about it.
I once heard someone say that building a story that inspires fanfic is like building a base for coral reefs. Too good? thats like plastic. theres nowhere for the coral (or the ideas) to take hold. Too bad? Toxic waste. It can't survive in that environment. It needs to be juuuuuuuust rough enough to have something to cling to without poisoning everything. This movie? hits that mark 100%
Holy crap "its already over and nothing can be done to change it" literally gave me chills. That is SO MUCH more effective than the original text! Im going to read that book.
It's *incredibly* well-written, and I highly recommend re-watching the movie after reading it because it legitimately makes the movie a better experience.
I'm just now am I fully realizing that Luke was the only person who could save the galaxy, not because he was a Jedi, not because he was a great pilot, and not because of some prophecy, but because of who Anakin is as a person. Anakin would only choose a member of his family over the Emperor. Lea could have done it too, and the movies suggest that, but I'm not sure whether Lea would stubbornly believe in Vader against all evidence the way Luke did. I know this is exactly what you've been trying to say for a while now, so congratulations I finally got it
Sort of. It’s Vader’s love for his son that makes him save Luke, but Luke being a Jedi inspires him to want to redeem Vader in the first place. This is why he throws away his lightsaber and refuses to kill Vader because he “is a Jedi like his father before him.” I think people have been underrepresenting how important Luke being a Jedi and finally becoming a true Jedi in ROTJ is in orchestrating Vaders ascension to the light side and the fall of the emperor and the dark side.
A fun observation/opinion I have seen in some places (even if perhaps it is not entirely correct) is the take that out of the twins Luke is actually more like Padme in personality/attitude and Leia more like Anakin. Yes, based on their "jobs" and upbringing (and genders) it is far easier to compare Luke with Anakin and Leia with Padme. But Luke is usually the one with the softer heart/side (compassionate) vs the very passionate and headstrong Leia. Luke being more willing to see the good in him and try to save him is also a part of it. Anakin if put in a similar situation and most likely Leia would be far more likely to accept that an enemy is still and enemy and fight them.
Another thing I want to shout out is the Ahsoka vs Vader fight from Rebels, which was the first time that Anakin and Vader actually felt like the same character to me. It hits so much harder than the Kenobi show to me because it's so much more concise. It says everything it needs to in thirty seconds and four lines. It doesn't need to spell it out like in Kenobi, you can just see it in the conflict in Anakin's eye under the broken mask, and the mixing of Anakin's voice with Vader's as he says "Then you will die" to Ahsoka of all people, and it all makes the scene so much stronger.
As a Latin American, the answer to the question about "How does a republic become a dictatorship?" is "The republic has natural resources and is not willing to hand them over for free to the US"
Ehh, Venezuela is pretty much the prequels and that happened with basically nothing from the US. Republics becoming dictatorships is very different from republics being overthrown into dictatorships.
I love that the Duel of Fates was the hingepoint of Palpatine's plans. If Qui-Gon had survived, Anakin would have had a mentor who understood him, was willing to subvert the corrupted teachings of the Jedi, and still keep Anakin on the right track. Would kill to read a fanfic exploring that idea. Maybe I should write one.
I think the cut scene of the 'Delegation of 2000' should have been left in. I think seeing the birth of the rebellion as we know it would have been a nice detail to keep.
@@Fluffkitscripts but not letting them cook without a stupid amount of supervision leads to the fiasco known as modern star wars, where there's so many damn people in the kitchen the chef's been sending out raw and shit products left and right. There legitimately needs to be less people in the damn kitchen, because at worst, it'll be a fun time again, even if overcooked like the prequels were.
The biggest problem with the prequel trilogy is they didn't have Mark Hamil, Carrie Fisher, and Harrison Ford on set saying "George, what's with this dialogue? People don't talk like this."
I am one of those people who read that book before seeing episode 3 in theaters. I was a kid who unapologetically loved the prequels (definitely target audience for the goofy stuff like Jar Jar), but was old enough to appreciate the tragedy in episode 3. For me, the internal thoughts and motivations of the characters in the book carried over into me watching the film. And I felt like I had a secret window into the character’s heads. It deepened the tragedy for me and made the movie more enjoyable.
I read the novelization before watching the film. I picked up the hardcover that April, read it, and waited with eager anticipation for the film to hit theaters. The novel hyped me up big time for the movie. I haven't read the novelization since, but there are three lines that stuck with me. Two of those were dialogue lines that got cut from the film. When Grievous tries to intimidate Obi-Wan by saying he was trained in the Jedi arts by Count Dooku, Kenobi replies, "Funny, I trained the man who killed him", which is just chef's kiss hamfisted badassery. Then, on Mustafar, when Vader is slaughtering the Separatists, Nute Gunray pleads, "Lord Sidious promised us peace", then Vader cuts him down. In the novel, Vader puts on his best drama queen snark and quips, "The transmission was garbled. He promised you would be left in pieces." I was disappointed that both those lines got cut when the "love has blinded you" dialogue got left in. The closing lines from the novel have also stuck with me. The talk about the power of darkness, the comment on how a candle can beat it back, and then how love does not ignite a mere candle, it can ignite the stars. Just a beautiful lead in to the thesis of Anakin's redemption in Jedi. I think it was that novel more than any other piece of pre-Disney Star Wars media that made it so Star Wars, for me, was not the six films, but all the other media, with the films as just a core piece of decoration.
I also read it before I watched it, and I think it vastly improved the experience of the movie to the point that I never felt very betrayed. I absolutely inserted the characterization from the novel into the movie when I did first see it, which prevented the "this character moment came out of nowhere" feelings that a lot of people seem to have had.
@@DarthRayj Yeah! The context the novel gives for why Anakin was so upset at not being made a Master made that scene work in a way that it never bothered me. Should have been in the film, but the novel made it work.
I will admit despite its flaws I realized why this is my favorite prequel film. Ian McDirmand. Every scene of him as Palpatine and Sidous has no right of being that entertaining and bombastic.
Emperor Palpatine is my favorite villain of all time for a good reason. As soon as the mask comes off he's such a delightfully unambiguous and unashamedly EVIL cackling little goblin man. I would be so fortunate if I could someday write a bad guy who's so much fun to watch being the absolute definition of a menace.
All the Princess Bride moves in the movie are named after actual Swordfighters from the 16th and 17th centuries, who probably had specific defenses and attacks.
@@user-er5mg6zj4v different Agrippa. This is Camillo Agrippa (Architect, Geometry Whiz and Fencer), not Marcus Vipsanius Agrippa (Contemporary of Gaius Julis Caesar), Or Heinrich Cornelius Agrippa von Nettesheim.
As a Princess Bride nerd (so lore dump incoming, sorry), they -did- actually have specific defense and attack styles. Most of them are actually manuals that HEMA folks will be able to point you at (or, in some cases, we have references to there -being- a manual, but not the actual manual itself), and were, at the time, famous teachers of the fencing art. As a matter of fact, even some of the move references are even correct for the style of the fencer in question - I think, from memory, Agrippa is about using geometry in fencing, so apt for uneven terrain, for example. Sure, some of them don't make sense in context, but they got -this- close to being 100% accurate, and that's amazing. If they'd shuffled the order a little, they'd have hit it on the head, so I expect someone slipped up in one of the takes, and that happened to be the take that got used, or something similar, as happens. Huge kudos to the team as a whole, it's far more accurate than most other epic swordfights I've seen. And eminently quotable, too. ;-]
I remember the proto-Discourse (because capital D Discourse had not been invented yet) when 3D The Clone Wars was starting, and it's fun to watch Ashoka go from "oh great another quippy 'hello fellow kids' character" to a fully fleshed out, beloved part of the franchise. I know I was dreading where things were going to go at first, but time and practice really proved the doubts to be unfounded.
I remember reading they deliberately made Ahsoka annoying. They knew she'd be hated no matter what, so they decided to make sure she was hated for reasons they could change, and by developing her character they could make her beloved. I'd say it worked like a charm
As someone who's seen The Blackened Mantle, I must say, there's a delightful little bit of metahumor about it: The film is presented in black and white--a technical limitation of the era--yet features spectacular effects of space battles and whatnot. So I just enjoy "Yeah, we have the tech to simulate space ships and giant lizard dudes and a 4-arm mechanical menace, but color images? heavens no".
Jumping off the "Order 66 in real-time" point, I love how Jedi: Fallen Order showed how things went down. Particularly abit small optional moment where Cal high-fives one of the clones, it''s such a cute moment but it it's also such a gut-punch because you know what going to happen. All the while this poor kid has no idea what's going on, it does such a good job of show how the Jedi that are left after order 66 are emotionally wrecked.
I'd love to see how it went down from the perspective of a third party. Maybe a non-clone member of the Repblic Navy seeing the clones turn on the Jedi in a split second. Perhaps some civilians who had just been liberated by the Republic watching in horror as their liberators turn on their commanders.
Stuff like that is why I can't get behind the idea that the clones WILLINGLY followed Order 66. I refuse to fucking believe the clones under Plo Koon just said "K" and fired
@@joelsasmad couldn't agree more. I know when the idea of the inhibitor chips was first introduced, there were people who weren't on-board with it, but what's been done with that plot detail has been excellent, the Kanan Jarrus comic being a stand-out i my mind.
My favorite moments in Revenge of the Sith is in the french version when Darth Vader learns about Padme's death the 'NOO' you hear is Anakin's voice breaking through the voice-changer. Gives me chills every time
Looking at what happened with Revenge of the Sith as a movie is fascinating to me as a Metroid fan, because it's exactly what happened to Other M with Yoshio Sakamoto. The director can be a good director, but when he's the director, lead producer, lead writer, and voice director all at once...
@@cheezeebutter452I would respond with the fact that RotS isn't good, it's a mess of bad pacing, terrible dialogue, and VFX diarrhea. People just think it's good because they remember it fondly.
In response to 2:50 my wife is deaf, and we watched the prequels in the theaters and she absolutely loved it. Then we got the VHS tapes (Yeah, it's been a while) and her first comment was, "I think there's something wrong with the caption." and my response was, "No, that's just how JarJar talks." "Well, it's stupid." She enjoyed watching them at home less.
One thing that bothered me about Revenge of the Sith was that Attack of the Clones ended with "begun the clone wars have" and Revenge starts with "aaaand the clone wars are ending. You missed most of it and we're definitely going to make you feel that"
@@Layn75 I mean, I don't live in North America or Western Europe but we still got the comics here. And the cartoon is very accessible on the internet wherever (though admittedly that was not the case when the movies were coming out).
Hi I am exactly the young teen who plucked Stover's novelization off the shelf in April 2005 and devoured that novel into my heart and was so excited for everyone else to see what I felt reading that book, only to have my dreams shattered by the crushing weight of Ep3s disappointment banquet.
The whole, "Padme dies of Big Sad," just … it does her dirty, and misses an opportunity to have her on the run, trying to hide from Vader, trying to keep the twins out of sight, lying about them even being twins, and, ultimately, having her die not because of HazBigSad, but because of something that Vader himself causes. An absolute classic prophecy-trope: in trying to prevent The Prophecy, you cause it to happen.
Sorry, i had trouble paying attention to the second half because I was too busy thinking about Count Dooku realizing in real time that he was being fridged. And NOT ONLY read he being fridged, but that the entire reason Palpatine recruited and trained him was so he could be fridged! Peak tragedy, nothing can top it!
One thing I don't like Stover's interpretation is how he just makes Dooku a cowardly sociopath and readds the "beg for mercy" when Christopher Lee opted to have Dooku remain silent in that scene to maintain his "idealist" characterization.
@@nines3048 if we’re counting cadet branches, yes. But aren’t they stuck in some other galaxy with Hippy-Beard Ezra? Ezra is incidentally the mainline endpoint of Mace Windu too.
@@mra4521 cadet branches? I'm not sure what you mean by that, Anakin didn't take on any other padawans in his time. And yeah, it is cool that the two main lineages in star wars get so intensely tangled up
I actually like Anakin's character arc, even if the execution could have been better : Because he was told he was the chosen one at a very young age, he grew up to become arrogant and entitled, believing he was more powerful than anyone and the jedi were holding him back. Then his arrogance grows into hubris when he thinks he can master life and death and play god to save Padme and bring his mother back from the dead. All things that makes incredibly easy for Palpatine to manipulate him. There is one bit of dialogue I actually loves from this movie : when Anakin and Obi Wan fight Dooku, Anakin boast that his powers doubled since their first fight. Dooku replie to Anakin "twice the power, twice the fall" shows he nows perfectly well where this road will send Anakin to. Plus, it shows the essential difference between Luke and Anakin : When Luke loses against Darth Vador in The Empire Strikes Back, he rethink everyhting he thought about the jedi and his father, and become a better person than either the Obi Wan when he sees that there is still Light in his father, or Anakin when he rejects the Dark Side. When Anakin loses against Dooku he doesn't rethinks his philosophy, he just thinks about having more power.
My god, "It's already over. Nothing can be done to change it." Is such a raw line. Especially immediately following something as iconic as a long time ago in a galaxy far far away...
I am so glad Red and Blue (and so many others) are cut from the same cloth as me, who cannot shake the specter of media that is neither bad nor great but just _not what it could be._ This is why Descendants still lives rent-free in my head.
Hey, creator here, glad you enjoyed The Blackened Mantle :) I made the original version in 2015 (under the old name "Darth Lunar") but the footage quality wasn't 100% there. I believe GMatias upgraded it to a beautifully crisp 1080p and spoonito made the B&W "Kurosawa" version with sepia flashbacks in 2023. Thanks for watching and breaking it down so well!
And I'm surprised they criticized the Mortis arc, that's one of the best in the series, though I'm guessing it's probably because they didn't understand it was largely meant to be allegorical. It's more significant less in that "FORCE GODS EXIST," and more so by asking, "What does Anakin being the Chosen One actually mean, and how does it play into his character?" Also they apparently haven't watched Rebels yet, which implies that they're still alive in some form, since they're literal embodiments of the Force and technically can't be killed.
@@thirdcoinedgeIn my opinion Mortis kind of sucks it makes the force way to clear, one of the good things about the force is that different characters and factions see it differently and Mortis removes that.
@@thirdcoinedgeI suppose that’s why I’ve always been pretty 50/50 with it. I never thought about it on a deeper level and saw it purely as FORCE GODS EXIST NOW! But thinking about it under the lenses of it being purely allegorical and more of a depiction of Anakins feelings and thoughts on his role in all this as the chosen one does make it way better.
@@ricardodnda3826 The Mortis arc doesn't clear anything up. It's both allegorical and a peek at how Anakin perceives the Force: the Light side is female (his mother), the Dark side is male (Anakin himself), the restraint on the Darkness is an older male figure (Obi-wan).
46:05 My favorite example of this from Stover's RotS would have to be when the Invisible Hand is crashing into the planet. We get the perspective of a Republic Officer on a nearby bridge watching it go down, and he gives prayer because, mentally, he's already written off everyone on that ship as dead, because no one can safely land a ship like that. And then it cuts back to Anakin, on the bridge, getting ready to do just that. It describes him as a conductor, leading an orchestra of thrusters and drag fins in a beautiful symphony, for what's maybe the greatest feat of piloting in history, managing to set the ship down relatively safely. It takes what was just "another happy landing", and turns it into Anakin making a miracle happen. Fucking masterful prose.
One of honestly my favorite details in the book is that the narration mentions that after Anakin started having nightmares of Padme dying, he eventually just stopped sleeping entirely for several days, he was using the force to allow his body to function and keep himself from literally dying of exhaustion, but in the context of the book, it makes a lot of sense why Anakin’s acting fairly irrationally, because the dude has spent possibly a week not sleeping.
I remember telling my best friend when Revenge of the Sith came out "everyone will hate this now, but will realize how good it was when we grow up." The vindication for Hayden Christensen and the prequels as a whole is so heartwarming. They're my perfect star wars movies and I love they're getting new found attention
Part of the reason is due to the Sequel trilogy being even more divisive and Disney's handling of the franchise. People can look back at the prequels and realize that while they have problems, it still tried to tell its own story and does do some things better than the original series.
Just wait. Historical revisionism will come for the Sequels as well. Though as “Clone Wars” type cartoon would help it out. Take up the task of redeeming Rise of Skywalker.
What has always stuck with me about Clone Wars Anakin is his absolute insistence that he can and will save everyone who needs saving- if Obi Wan and Ahsoka are in danger and he’s faced with a choice, he won’t choose, he has to save them both
I'll give credit where credit is due: in Hollywood, having the villain win is VERY rare, especially in the end of a trilogy It gave us the reasoning why the empire rose, why the jedi were nearly extinct, and how Anakin became Vader I really wish there were more movies where the villains win, especially in long sagas
For long stories, it is common to have the villains win halfway through (Ep. 3 is the halfway point of the original 6 movie Saga). One Piece did this with The Summit War Arc, Naruto did this with the Sasuke Retrieval Arc, MHA did this during its first war arc, JJK did this during Shibuya. I’m using anime as example’s because they are insanely long so it’s very common for stuff like this to happen. Wheel of Time also lets its villains get wins in the middle portion, Game of Thrones has the Red Wedding. It’s way more common than you think
I agree, but I think a big reason why we got a movie where the villain wins so decisively (more so than in Empire) is because it was already known that they would lose. But I do agree, would love to see more movies where the villain wins
@@scarletcroc3821 Yeah I don't think you can really credit the movie for doing what it had to do to fit the basic premise. It's a prequel to a movie with an evil empire. It was required to have the bad guys win
“The Blackened Mantel” bit reminds me of those artist who take several puzzles that are printed by the same company and mixing and mashing them to make a different image
something I vividly remember from the OG Clone Wars was a moment in the Ventress vs Anakin fight where they're staring each other down in the rain and you see the raindrops that hit their lightsabres evaporate on contact and that little detail was just so neat to me
Matthew Stover's novel is, for me, not just peak Star Wars but also straight up good fiction. It's the SW book I recommend the most to people who aren't even into Star Wars
I recently finished recently and (aside from Chapter 19) it is either one of or THE best Star Wars Legends novels and shows how great the original expanded universe was able to get.
It's legitimately ranked highly in my personal favorite literary works of all time. Honestly, I read it before I was able to watch the movie, and I think that greatly elevated my perception of the movie itself because I was inserting character thoughts from the book into the scenes without even trying. But yeah, the writing is incredibly melodramatic (and also just really good), but it's like that because the entire universe of Star Wars is supposed to be melodramatic, it's a f***in *space opera*
I've seen a lot of Star Wars UA-camrs cite the Stover Ep3 novel over the years for more than a few powerful passages. But, this discussion for sure pushed me over the edge. I'll have to add it to my backlog. The assorted fanfics discussed toward the end look great too!
In my opinion, the book version by Matt Stover is the definitive version of Revenge of the Sith. When all else fails, the voice actors in your mind (reading voice) do the heavy lifting to make scenes great.
@@stevenhedge2850I’m pretty sure at this point between AI and him just saying the lines we could probably recut revenge of the Sith and sun Hayden over with Matt
So, Red mentions Anakin eating bugs in the 2003 clone wars - which he does! - but that's from the SECOND season. The one nobody talks about. This is the season that features Anakin going on a whole-ass spirit quest after getting tattooed by leeches. Anakin the 2003 show isn't just 'his one fight with Ventress'. It's Hokezet - Ghost Hand. The characterisation of Anakin as being someone who will do ANYTHING for what is right and who he loves, starts here. It starts on a snow planet where he loses his hand once again, and the victims of the Techno Union's experiments all rip off their own mechanical limbs to follow him. There's more to unpack about that one segment than I think most people give credit to GennedyWars.
Місяць тому
It's actually "holt kezed" which is "your dead hand" in slightly-antiquated Hungarian. Those aliens were speaking Hungarian (rendered nearly-incomprehensible by the VAs' pronunciation; apparently they couldn't find or bother to look for a dialect coach).
I imagine they deliberately chose not to, to make the language sound ‘more alien’. Star Wars has a history of this, the Ewok language was based on a real one too. If anything the mistake here was not deliberately mangling it *more.*
@nataleynakata3687 the only meme I've seen come out of the Disney movies is "Amazing, everything you said is wrong". Amusingly that's from the film most Star Wars fans say they hate.
The first 20 Minutes of Revenge of the Sith are honestly cinematic perfection. The Spacebattle, the banter, the visuals, the music....its all peak. The slow wardrums playing when the camera follows Anakins and Obi-Wans fighter around the Venator, then the full theme blaring once they dip down into the Battle of Coruscant is absolut oerfection, everything from then till Padme telling Anakin shes pregnant is. Over 20 years and SW still hasnt managed to top that spacebattle
Not sure if this is going to be brought up but I've just finished reading it, the Revenge of the Sith Novelisation has A LOT of improvements (although it does remove the memes) and I highly recommend it. For example: Palpatine manipulating his duel to his advantage for evidence for his declaration of the Jedi betraying the Galactic Republic (and using underhanded tactics to wipe out the Jedi in front of him), the prose about the "effective Jedi trap", Anakin's sleep deprived perspective of Palpatine revealing himself, and the "This is what it feels to be Anakin Skywalker. Forever..." prose which describes his first moments in the Vader armour which is one of my favourite moments from any Star Wars novel... if nothing else, find somewhere to read that specific part! However, Chapter 19 is the weakest with Anakin coming up with puns while slaying his way through Mustafar while Obi Wan pretends to be a hunchback that can't speak Galactic Basic to infiltrate the Jedi Temple post Order 66.
@@akindatallmidget6508 Honestly, I thought the Mustafar scene was a pretty fun interjection and also fits really well with how Anakin *would* act once he finally decided "fk it, the only person that matters to me is Padme, so much for this Jedi BS"; he turns all his snarky "I am the Chosen One, you can't win" energy that he has *always* had straight into dispassionate cruelty.
Just realized something. I used to think making an entire army clones of one guy was stupid because the most effective teams are made up of a variety of different types of badass characters so like why limit your to one type of soldier. Just now I remembered that clones are basically identical twins there is something very special about the way identical twins who are raised together communicate. They can know how eachother thinks in a way regular siblings can’t. Also in a setting like StarWars the bonds between identical twins might have a mystical quality. A clone army would then be an attempt to mass produce that.
I've never bought the idea that George Lucas had all this planned out in his head and this is just him bringing it forth. I feel like he perhaps had a series of vignettes in his head, and then had to flesh out a story to tie them all together. Or maybe that's just how I am interpreting the prequels. And those little plot points and scenes indeed are powerful, and do land with us; they are so impactful to the fanbase that we all keep trying to re-join them because we want the rest of the meat to be worthy of the bones.
That's basically been proven on multiple occasions. Literally he has been asked about stuff in the series, even the movies he made not just the extended universe stuff, at public events and he'll say something that absolutely contradicts something else, someone will point that out, and then he throws a tantrum. Even basic shit that he should know like the force, or what some character was doing during some events. He then proceeds to claim that he knows, and has always known, everything that has ever happened in Star Wars more than anyone else.
The ending of the RotS book killed me. It viscerally describes, in SECOND PERSON, the medical transformation into Vader. "This is what it feels like to be Anakin Skywalker. Forever..." Gaaaah
I read Stover's novelization before seeing the movie. Blue is spot-on: "This book is amazing! This movie... lacks all the things that made the book good." Stover's over the top, operatic prose and descriptions and the additional scenes digging into the political quagmires the war dug everyone into sell the tragedy. And the final line about light in the darkness concluding on "Love can ignite the stars" is another great way to remind the reader: "It looks bad now, but you already know it gets better"
I think you guys have delivered one of thr the most nuanced critical interpretations of not only this film, but Star Wars as a series. It's something for everyone. Despite every flaw, these stories were and still are about having fun. To quote the late Carrie Fisher "It's about family, and that's what timeless about it." I could give a lot of crap about some of the media, but never to the point of hate. Why? Because it's fun. Because the good moments outshine the bad for me.
Blue's judgements being impacted for nineteen years by that ever-lingering Revenge of the Sith cloud around him probably would have made Red his chosen one if Blue hadn't only dealt in absolutes.
@@balabanasiretido not try to mock the cringe. that's impossible. instead, only try to realize the truth: there is no cringe. then you will see that it is not the cringe that you mock, it is only yourself.
Also speaking of stars we've got SPACE CRAB PINS! overlysarcastic.shop/
Available for the rest of the weekend!
-B
How dare you mock the Yada Yada sword technique. It is a technique passed down to only the greatest kendo and hema practitioners.
@@dominicnye850so are you a toxic Star Wars fan
@humanoidwolf serious question: Do you not understand jokes or did your momma drink when she was pregnant?
@@humanoidwolf also yes
watch animated clone wars then order 66 f$%# it makes that seen hit hard
When Red mentions how nobody cares about Rebel Moon, I was like 'oh yeah, Rebel Moon is a thing', because I had forgotten it exists.
And then, about a minute later, when she mentions it again, I was like 'Oh yeah, Rebel Moon is a thing', because I had *already* forgotten it exists.
I've never even heard of "Rebel Moon." Is it recent?
@@NewtypeCommander 2023 Snyder film. Supposed to be very Star Wars esque, but I've only ever heard bad things about it.
@@Anergyneoh wow I remember hearing about it a while ago before it came out thinking “I should go see that” and I completely forgot about it until mentioned here, it’s so forgetful it’s like a cognitohazard
@@NewtypeCommander Currently a 2 parter on netflix. Part 3 in the makes. Imagine the slow mo editing of "300" but about fields of wheat...in space!
@@Anergyne To be fair, the only thing I've seen of it myself has been the merch sitting on the clearance rack of my local Walmart. And every time I do the first thing that jumps into my head is "That's just 40K stuff with the serial numbers filed off".
"Why did they fight in lava?" Well, my answer is: Because they show the saviour figures descent into quite literal hell. One drags the other down. And only one climbs back out watching his former friend being consumed by literal flames of hatred. Not subtle. But very effective.
Subtle? In Star Wars? Surely you jest.
Even besides the obvious symbolism, rule of cool applies just as well. Why did Yoda and Sidious fight in the Senate? Because A. it represents the final struggle for democracy v. totalitarianism between the Jedi and Sith, and B. it's cool as shit, man.
Thank you, I don't see how that's a complaint. I personally love how absolutely dramatic Star Wars is, down to the set pieces.
@@thirdcoinedgeI will admit that I do find it rad as shit to see Yoda throw down in most situations. Can it look goofy? Yes, of course. Do I still think it kicks ass when Yoda pulls out a Lightsaber and becomes Jedi Master Splinter? Absolutely!
Well it was also something left over from the EU that Lucas decided to adapt.
If Red's brain is split into three ways between Miyazaki References, ReBoot References, and Last Airbender References. Blue's brain is split the same way between Venice, Domes, and Star Wars memes.
With a decent space for Spider-Man material.
@@legomaniac213 Spider-Man - The shared brainspace
I think the domes and Venice share real estate
Bold to assume a clean split between his Venice brain and his dome brain
That is why I am surprised she has not done a Detailed Diatribe on Avatar yet?
The sentence "everybody is a hero, nobody is enough" for the clone wars has absolutely floored me because, yes, holy hell, THAT. Everyone in that show, all the jedi, clones, side characters, even many of the villains; every single one of them is at the top of their game. They are all living out their finest hours, all becoming the versions of themselves that will echo across time, but it's not enough. It was never going to be enough. They were, every last one of them, doomed from the word go.
"Truth is, the game was rigged from the start."
This is such a weird, meta-horror way to approach the dramatic irony inherent to a prequel story and I love it.
The point that they truly are at the top of their game is so good - it makes me think of the High Republic. It is at the height of their power that someone is most vulnerable. These are warriors at the point that they can fight armies, crumble buildings, where the soldiers are perfect machines of lethality, and where the politics are literally galactic.
And what they don't know is that the Evil is just as Grand. Careful, brilliant, lethal, and utterly, irretrievably, perfectly Evil. And he will bring them all down.
Remember kids, Anakin can't violate the Geneva Convention because there's no Geneva in Star Wars
No, Geneva was there for .04 seconds in the Cantina scene in a New Hope and has twelve novels of dubious quality about its backstory.
The amusing thing about mentioning the Geneva Conventions in relation to the Tartakovsky Clone Wars is that the 3D Clone Wars actually quite literally and _directly_ shows Anakin violating them right in the _first episode._ He pretends to surrender, before using that as a way to spring a trap. Which is a war crime.
Shrek voice: they don’t even have Geneva…
@JimCullen And the best part is he does it *again* in season 7 to reintroduce him to the audience. Anakin's war crimes are so iconic that they have the nostalgia factor.
That's a ridiculous statement. Unless you are saying Anakin can't violate the Geneva Concentions because Star Wars doesn't exist, you've chosen an arbitrary line.
Star wars only exists in the context of our reality, English is Galactic Basic. It doesn't exist outside of our reality
This entire 1.5+ hour conversation just has me thinking of the truly classic phrase:
"Star Wars would be so good if it was actually good."
That’s the real kernel of SW fandom.
The OT was lightning in a bottle and was objectively really really great (well, 2 outta the three movies) and everyone fell in love with THAT SW, and everything since has been chasing that high. It turns out that SW, like 99% of the stuff out there that has Star Wars slapped on it, is just not that good, let alone great.
So, to be a fan is to suffer forever, believing in hope but never finding it again.
Basicalwhat the jedi l8ve for :p
Like Andor
"We WeRe ThIs ClOsE tO gReAtNeSs!"
@@russellharrell2747 3/3 movies. People didn’t like ROTJ because of pacing of whatever, but pretending that that the growth of Luke’s character, the redemption of Anakin, and the subsequent destruction of evil wasn’t MASTERFUL is absurd. Also I’d say 4 of the 9 Star Wars movies could be classified as masterpieces(4,5,6, and Rogue One), and at least ROTS was decent. Finally I’d argue that a solid majority of Star Wars novels(ROTS, Labyrinth of Evil, Shatterpoint, Path of Destruction, and Darth Plagueis), comics series, and video games(KOTOR) were brilliant.
"This story happened a long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away. It is already over. Nothing can be done to change it." is gonna be a line that keeps me up at night, and would've given kid me several nightmares if I read it.
Just straight up amazing
It continues a few lines later into something more heartwarming tho. "A strange thing about stories- Though all this happened so long ago and so far away that words cannot describe the time or the distance, it is also happening right now. Right here. It is happening as you read these words."
Blue was not joking about the heavy handed operatic dramatic prose, and it is amazing in this book
@@sasimitra5871 Star Wars isn't called a "space opera" for nothing
I mean... not really? I honestly don't get how that line is supposed to invoke fear or dread. Because, if it's already over, then... that's just like literally every other finished story in all of fiction. The first Harry Potter book's events are already over by the time you pick up the book, but that's a big "duh". Heck, when you turn on any Star Wars movie, the events in the movie are already unchangeable by you or the characters, but that's an obvious given. I'm not trying to hate, I just genuinely don't see how that line is meant to be thought-provoking.
@@mrreyes5004And that's ok. It's honestly hard to explain it. It's an emotion that is birthed from just certain kinds of imaginative minds. To me, at least it fills that same space as the thought of that nihilistic idea of being so small on a cosmic scale.
“Though it is the end of the age of heroes, it has saved it’s best for last.” Fuck me that goes so hard!
I love the fact that doing Detail Diatribes leads to even more Detail Diatribes. It’s the best kind of media analysis rabbit hole. ❤💙✨
To similar end, I love how trope talk lends to a realization at 45:30. The description of Anakin’s inner fear as a “dragon” is literally perfect, since the trope name for a villainous powerhouse second-in-command IS “the dragon”! Through his evolution into Darth Vader, Anakin is consumed by and becomes the dragon, fear personified. SO GOOD!
"Clone Troopers are badass" reminded me of the clip I saw recently from the 2D Clone Wars of Grievous running down the side of the building chasing the elevator with Palpatine, and the clone trooper in the elevator loading his rocket launcher and blasting Grievous. The fact that (without saying a word because that's how those cartoons work) the trooper saw Grievous, thought, "Yeah, using this rocket on infantry is the correct amount of force" and calmly applied said force is badass and hilarious in equal measure.
I like to think that the clone knew Grevious by reputation, and decided to treat him like a serious threat. As you should
You can accuse him of overkill all you want. It didnt work
@@52nerfguyexactly. It was very much necessary
And then Sheev coughed on the smoke and it accomplished nothing
That wasn’t an infantry, that was a four-armed, Jedi killing, cyborg general *running* down the side of a building
the problem with insisting the movie works better if you turn off the sound is that if you do that you can't hear john williams
The closet I can get is watch it dubbed in a language you can’t speak and subtitles off.
Well, silent movies did have accompanying sound tracks and even sound effects (usually done live in the theater), so if you turn off the dialogue it would be fine.
@@rorythomas9469 i can vouch that japanese works REALLY well here. The dub has some SERIOUS star power, and honestly, with all the japanese influence the series already has, it becomes peak anime during the good parts, and decent during the melodramatic politicking
@@Missingn0mast3r Ngl I'm tempted to watch it in Japanese now.
Or the lightsabers
"The Subtlety is Not a Plothole" needs to be a t-shirt design. (Done by Red and Blue specifically for THEIR store. No t-tshirt bots, please)
One of the things that I love about the novelization is that it actually gives another reason for Anakin's suspect decision making: he had not been sleeping, and had been using the force to sustain himself, so he wouldn't have to see the visions of Padme dying.
Ok but to be fair when I’m eepy I don’t suddenly want to overthrow democracy and install a fascist regime, but that’s a cool character bit. I gotta read this book
When you have 72h without sleep you will reconsider that statement....
Reminds of of Order of the Stick.
@@eclipserepeater2466 Oh that's actually a really good parallel:
(spoilers below from as late as the Blood Runs in the Family OOTS storyline)
Anakin takes on the power of the dark side in order to protect his loved ones and is reviled by them for that very decision. He furthermore causes devastation across the galaxy for his decision, and nearly kills his own children.
V takes on the power of the fiends in order to protect their loved ones and is reviled by them for that very decision. They furthermore cause devastation across the Western continent for their decision, and would've killed Elan if Tarquin had had just one more child.
Wonder how much further you could go with it, and whether Burlew was thinking about this.
If it's not in the movie, it don't mean shit.
It's me! I'm a person who read the novelization before the movie as wee child, and definitely colored my perception of Episode 3 for a very long time, because I can never not imagine the added context and weight that the novel added to each scene. Even as a beaten-down adult Star Wars fan I hold a much higher opinion of Revenge of the Sith than the movie itself perhaps deserves. It was so liberating to hear about the dragon and the framing device of the light and dark again after so many years.
I'll add one more amazing bit that the novel has: there a recurring line "This is how it feels like to be Anakin Skywalker right now" that shows up whenever the narration delves into his head whenever he does something incredible, like landing the front half of the Invisible Hand or flying a Jedi Starfighter (which is implied to be a kind of superhuman feat to control.) This is the passage that describes him waking up on the slab after Mustifar:
This is how it feels to be Anakin Skywalker, forever:
You can hear yourself breathing. It comes hard, and harsh, and it scrapes nerves already raw, but you cannot stop it.
You can never stop it. You cannot even slow it down. You don't even have lungs anymore.
Mechanisms hardwired into your chest breathe for you. They will pump oxygen into your bloodstream, forever.
I've never once read the novelization. I watched it as a kid, loved it and still really love the movie. That said, for me it's probably TCW and other newer stuff that colours my perception of it. Including the characterization of Vader.
People don't seem to care for Obi Wan Kenobi (the show, that is, not the character) but I feel like it brought a lot of that across too.
I am definitely reading this novelization now.
I can't watch this movie without sobbing at the tragedy of Anakin. What an experience you live my guy.
Woah, that is horrifying /pos
Another decade old book to add to the reading list then not quite older than me this time at least.
56:54 What Padme says is actually "So this is how *liberty* dies." The republic is not being killed from without. It's the democracy turned against itself, that's why there's thunderous applause.
This line really infuriates me because it's too good of an idea to not be better explored on this galactic, epic scale. I think this is the coolest idea that never got well developed in the movies - how democracies fall
Red has an agenda which her memory distorts things to fit into.
@@iordanvassilev8091we get to explore in reality now XD
@@iordanvassilev8091 I mean, the entire story of the prequels is how democracies fall.
Also, the Republic is in no way a democracy. Most senators are appointed by the governments of the planets they represent, many of which are monarchies or otherwise non-democratic. We've also been given no indication that senators have voting power proportional to their constituencies' populations. To be fair to them, though, the logistics of making the Star Wars galaxy truly democratic are essentially impossible.
27:08 Andor is so good that it doesn't even register in Blue's brain as a Disney+ show.
“White phosphorus we must deploy” took me tf out
Do you feel like a Jedi yet?
Anguish, we cannot escape. What we are, it is.
A good person, you still are.
I spit out my drink when I heard Red say that.
It’s all the ketamine, bro
"This story happened a long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away. It is already over. Nothing can be done to change it." is unironically the hardest opener for a story I have ever heard
Anakin is at his best when the writer brings out the Vader in him.
Vader is at his best when the writer brings out the Anakin in him.
Beautifully put. Though the first half of the phrase is truer than the latter
In short, they are at their best when the writer realizes they aren't separate persons, but the same man dealing with his issues in different ways
@@daemosblackthis is the take. Vader can be a take on the nature of man or the nature OF man. Pick one and story telling gold is yours
Only problem I have with you statement is Rouge One you can't tell me there is any Anakin in that depiction of Vader and and he was AWSOME
Is it tho? "The women and the children too!" Is it?
I have never been more prepared to watch a Detail Diatribe in my entire life. As Count Dooku once said, "I've been looking forward to this!"
Prepare yourself for even more Star Wars memes and references once I actually finish watching the video!
We will watch your comments with great interest.
Many Bothans has died for this...goddamnit, how many Bothans have died to get me a cup of coffee today?
@@robertnovich4137 Three, five if you count indirectly.
I have not read the book, but I already knew the "The dark is generous, and it is patient, and it always wins - but in the heart of its strength lies weakness: one lone candle is enough to hold it back.
Love is more than a candle.
Love can ignite the stars." part of it, because it came up as a powerful quote, and I was like, this is from a Star Wars novelization??? Truly it sounds very impressive and I may need to read it now.
That sounds oddly...beautiful?
Unexpectedly powerful line.
I own the book and cried multiple times because the prose isn’t reserved for extreme moments it’s scattered throughout the book. RotS novelization by Matt Stover my beloved
Do yourself a favor and read the novel. That quote is the payoff to a series of other passages where each of the things the dark is described as is explored. Stuff like how the dark is always there, the brightest lights casting the deepest shadows stuff. It spends the whole book talking about how inevitable the darkness is but ends with that quote to remind us that even in the darkest of places a single light can hold it back@@leithaziz2716
Didn't they also use that line in Knights of the Old Republic? I remember Jolee Bindo saying something similar.
@@legomaniac213 He said "love will save you", although things didn't work out for him.
OSP: "Have you heard the tale of the Revenge of the Sith novelization? It's not a tale the Jedi would tell you"
The dialogue in the prequels is definitely the manifestation of what the classic crew were talking about with the *original* versions of the movies before other people stepped in to say "George, no."
Harrison Ford threatened to tie up George Lucas and force him to read his script at gunpoint *for a reason.*
The original films were saved by Lucas' wife.
@@peaceoutbruh7085 This right here. That woman single-handedly *made* Star Wars
I think the modern equivalent is Zack Snyder. Everything in his movies was the result of yes men
Batman 1989 is one of the few movies I feel that ended up great because of creative control.
Sometimes letting Tim Burton cook can lead to messy results if you give him too much creative freedom over the project. I don't dislike Batman Returns, but it is a much stranger film in general. And his later films only got worse.
"Who talks like this, George?" - Mark Hamill, more than once
One of my favorite episodes of Bad Batch follows a Senator trying to uncover a conspiracy, they do everything right and within the rules and it comes to nothing because at the end Palpatine comes in and turns their victory into his own. Because you can’t play by the rules anymore Palpatine writes them. There is only one option now, Rebellion.
A lesson we must all remember
Just as a note: At least on AO3, "Fix It" fics are fics not about fixing the story (like "I can do this better") but more like saving the world from disaster (like "They deserve better, let's give them that!"). It can be very rewarding because it both shows how much better things could have turned out while also contrasting how high the price paid was in the original universe.
It can go both ways. I've personally seen a lot of the "i can do better" types in certain fandoms
@@peaceoutbruh7085 I haven't seen it that way at all, but that might just be due to which fandoms I focus on
Fix It Fics also can include Fics that don’t actually change any of the plot, but simply expand on it. Such as adding in filler between events to better flesh out certain characters or helping to better explain certain aspects/scenes in the original.
In my opinion, this is the best type of Fix It Fic, since it can basically just end up being a better execution of a great concept. Or it can be a complete rewrite that simply uses the same bits of dialogue. Both ends of the spectrum.
@@JonathanMandrakeits not the fandoms as a whole. It’s the factions within fandoms. No group is a monolith, so there are toxic elements within all of them
@@Gloomdrake Well yes, but the story itself changes things too. With some stories, it is obvious that the fanfic will (if it is half decent) be better in a certain regard, such as reducing stereotyping or removing well known mistakes. With others, the story is so well liked that improving upon it will be inconceovable to most fans, and fanfics will instead explore other possibilities that focus on a different part of the world or shift things around to put things into a new context. Different story worlds just have different strengths when it comes to what you can do with Fanfics. Just take Star Wars for Example: For Prequel fanfics, there is a plethora of options of what to focus on, and the only thing that is really a given is that the Jedi are involved, and that the Mandos and Sith will probably have a role too. Yet when it come to the original trilogy, you'll very likely have Luke, Leia, Vader, Kenobi and the Emperor, and one of the first four will either be the protagonist or the protagonists lancer, while the last one is the antagonist.
Sure, this is mostly describing the more popular fanfics, but it is those that have the largest impact.
Lastly, while I can't imagine anyone sne trying to "fix" the story of Nimona, I can very well imagine many people trying to fix the story of Avatar the Way of Water. On the other hand, I can very well see people trying to fix the injustice of Nimona being so widely shunned and treated like a villain, while I doubt there would be any scenario where things go wrong for the characters in AtWoW that many people would try to fix.
Sword fighting person here sorry for coming at you: We absolutely fucking love the fencing in the Prince's Bride, because the "yada yadas" as Red puts it at 46:52 ARE real moves and forms and while it's not portrayed perfectly that is how actual sword fighting historically works. It's by far the best fencing in film and novel.
Anakin's fear being the dragon is very dramatic, but also funny a bit.
Because as he turns to the dark side he embraces his fears and becomes them. Becoming the Dragon to Palpatine.
I do like the implication that Anakin is the opposite of Batman. It's all in how you embrace your fears
I like it because it’s also a literary joke. “The Dragon” is a trope term representing a villain’s competent second in command it’s a villainous lancer.
One of the things that I remember most from Stover's novelization is that Anakin was so desperate to stop the nightmares that he stopped sleeping. So he was sustaining himself with the force for weeks or months, and Palps exploited that to its fullest.
Just at the outset - this matches up eerily well with how Jason Todd fans see Jason Todd - there is arguably no good representation of the character, but every Jason fan has pieces they like from each version, and everyone cobbles together the perfect Jason in their heads that doesn't actually exist on any page.
My perfect Jason exists on the Wayne Family Adventures. I love his characterisation there.
@@pistaalkoholThat Jason is unfortunately not around for enough time for his views and ideas to have enough weight. If only the Red Hood webtoon could summon the courage to write him like that.
I think my favorite Jason I've experienced in outside-comics mediums is the Under the Red Hood movie. But it's less because of Jason's ideals, but moreso the emotional conflicts between him and Bruce. He's not mad at Bruce for his death, but feels betrayed that his death wouldn't go avenged. He confesses that if Bruce were to ever die, Jason would hunt his murder because he took him away. You feel bad for both people. The actors did a great job in general.
To be frank, I don't even know what's the definitive take on Jason. The only other story I have to compare is the Arkham Knight game. And hoo boy, Jason is so much worse there.
My favorite Jason Todd is Rorschach
Or Tim for that matter. Only nightwing and Damian are exempt imo
I love the scene in the Novelisation of Anakin telling Windu about Palpatine. It's around four AM. Anakin bursts in. He's been crying, he's terrified, he's exhausted. It takes him a while to get anything out. Windu has to hold Anakin up. Windu keeps asking what's wrong, Skywalker, Skywalker, Skywalker. Finally, he says 'Anakin'! Anakin clutches his robes and looks up. 'I need to speak to Obi-Wan'. Scene cuts!!! The way Davis reads it. With the music. It's so heartbreaking! I love it!!! Everyone should read Plagiues
As someone who grew up speaking semi-proficient Cantonese, Backstroke of the West kills me *so* hard that I went on a rabbit hole to figure out why Dooku is called "the" and I think I figured it out and was so proud
And simultaneously i facepalmed
Now I'm curious, why _is_ Dooku called "the" in Backstroke of the West
@@jamiee7367 the best way I managed to piece it together and mind you... i'm like a casual cantonese speaker, and this is purely my theory... which is this:
In that VERY VERY Specific scene where Ewan - Obi Wan is saying Dooku's name he says it so quickly he says almost like "duKu"
introducing two Chinese syllables that sound like duKu
的 - Di - which can be directly translated to "of"
佢 - Ku - which an be directly translated to "him, her, his him" and most relevant for this "IT"
duKu therefore translating it back is Count "Of it"
Now if you're half-assing the translation how do you one word Count "of it"
Count "the"
@@virusguy5611 IM WHEEZING 😂
@@catherinepoteat I was wheezing too. I would love if someone could verify my theory because problem is I don’t write canto…. So idk if there is another character that might fit.
My biggest complaint about Episode III is how dirty they did Padme. We know from the deleted scenes that they wrote a whole storyline involving her basically being a founding member of what would become the Rebellion and the moral complications of walking the fine line between trying to save the Republic and being a traitor. Instead, she was pretty much just an inciting incident for Anakin to go to the dark side.
Red needing to get grounded from doing homework for this diatribe is very fun
considering how much she had to say already I don't blame Blue for it either, didn't want to give Red any more ammo lmao
I disagree.
You should probably refresh yourself on a movie you haven't seen in years before you make your hour and a half deconstructive critique about it.
@@EPPicstuff This was Blue's video though?
@@EPPicstuff it was Blue's deconstruction, Red was just along for the ride.
@@juicyjuustar121 Did Blue rewatch Revenge of the Sith for this video? If he did, it's surprising he didn't mention it.
I once heard someone say that building a story that inspires fanfic is like building a base for coral reefs. Too good? thats like plastic. theres nowhere for the coral (or the ideas) to take hold. Too bad? Toxic waste. It can't survive in that environment. It needs to be juuuuuuuust rough enough to have something to cling to without poisoning everything. This movie? hits that mark 100%
Holy crap "its already over and nothing can be done to change it" literally gave me chills. That is SO MUCH more effective than the original text! Im going to read that book.
It's *incredibly* well-written, and I highly recommend re-watching the movie after reading it because it legitimately makes the movie a better experience.
I personally just finished listening to it. Fantastic book, full of lines like this. Would recommend.
As a sword nerd the YaddaYadda defense is the most prestigious move in the whole book of swords
I'm just now am I fully realizing that Luke was the only person who could save the galaxy, not because he was a Jedi, not because he was a great pilot, and not because of some prophecy, but because of who Anakin is as a person. Anakin would only choose a member of his family over the Emperor. Lea could have done it too, and the movies suggest that, but I'm not sure whether Lea would stubbornly believe in Vader against all evidence the way Luke did.
I know this is exactly what you've been trying to say for a while now, so congratulations I finally got it
YES! Luke isn’t special because he’s a Skywalker, he’s special because he’s Vader’s kid and the only one who can save him
Sort of. It’s Vader’s love for his son that makes him save Luke, but Luke being a Jedi inspires him to want to redeem Vader in the first place. This is why he throws away his lightsaber and refuses to kill Vader because he “is a Jedi like his father before him.” I think people have been underrepresenting how important Luke being a Jedi and finally becoming a true Jedi in ROTJ is in orchestrating Vaders ascension to the light side and the fall of the emperor and the dark side.
@@michaelterrell5061 That's a good point
A fun observation/opinion I have seen in some places (even if perhaps it is not entirely correct) is the take that out of the twins Luke is actually more like Padme in personality/attitude and Leia more like Anakin. Yes, based on their "jobs" and upbringing (and genders) it is far easier to compare Luke with Anakin and Leia with Padme. But Luke is usually the one with the softer heart/side (compassionate) vs the very passionate and headstrong Leia.
Luke being more willing to see the good in him and try to save him is also a part of it. Anakin if put in a similar situation and most likely Leia would be far more likely to accept that an enemy is still and enemy and fight them.
@@gokbay3057 I think you're right
Another thing I want to shout out is the Ahsoka vs Vader fight from Rebels, which was the first time that Anakin and Vader actually felt like the same character to me. It hits so much harder than the Kenobi show to me because it's so much more concise. It says everything it needs to in thirty seconds and four lines. It doesn't need to spell it out like in Kenobi, you can just see it in the conflict in Anakin's eye under the broken mask, and the mixing of Anakin's voice with Vader's as he says "Then you will die" to Ahsoka of all people, and it all makes the scene so much stronger.
As a Latin American, the answer to the question about "How does a republic become a dictatorship?" is "The republic has natural resources and is not willing to hand them over for free to the US"
Alternatively back in the 50s and 60s, “The Republic is putting people into power and the US thinks they’re looking a little too communist.”
@@La_latina_blanka ...they're the same picture
USA USA USA
@@JoshuaKevinPerry -Who did this Coup? -U.S.A U.S.A.!
Ehh, Venezuela is pretty much the prequels and that happened with basically nothing from the US. Republics becoming dictatorships is very different from republics being overthrown into dictatorships.
I love that the Duel of Fates was the hingepoint of Palpatine's plans. If Qui-Gon had survived, Anakin would have had a mentor who understood him, was willing to subvert the corrupted teachings of the Jedi, and still keep Anakin on the right track.
Would kill to read a fanfic exploring that idea. Maybe I should write one.
The Prequels really needed a Director's Cut with various restored scenes, particularly all the Padme ones in Clones and Sith
I think the cut scene of the 'Delegation of 2000' should have been left in. I think seeing the birth of the rebellion as we know it would have been a nice detail to keep.
There is a comic adaptation that does exactly that.
Letting the director cook unsupervised is what got us here in the first place.
I disagree because, and this is 100% personal bias, I do not think padme is interesting at all and natalie portman is not a very good actress.
@@Fluffkitscripts but not letting them cook without a stupid amount of supervision leads to the fiasco known as modern star wars, where there's so many damn people in the kitchen the chef's been sending out raw and shit products left and right. There legitimately needs to be less people in the damn kitchen, because at worst, it'll be a fun time again, even if overcooked like the prequels were.
The biggest problem with the prequel trilogy is they didn't have Mark Hamil, Carrie Fisher, and Harrison Ford on set saying "George, what's with this dialogue? People don't talk like this."
This is where the fun begins
Revenge is the best movie.
Game time started
Old and lazy
I am one of those people who read that book before seeing episode 3 in theaters. I was a kid who unapologetically loved the prequels (definitely target audience for the goofy stuff like Jar Jar), but was old enough to appreciate the tragedy in episode 3. For me, the internal thoughts and motivations of the characters in the book carried over into me watching the film. And I felt like I had a secret window into the character’s heads. It deepened the tragedy for me and made the movie more enjoyable.
I read the novelization before watching the film. I picked up the hardcover that April, read it, and waited with eager anticipation for the film to hit theaters. The novel hyped me up big time for the movie.
I haven't read the novelization since, but there are three lines that stuck with me. Two of those were dialogue lines that got cut from the film. When Grievous tries to intimidate Obi-Wan by saying he was trained in the Jedi arts by Count Dooku, Kenobi replies, "Funny, I trained the man who killed him", which is just chef's kiss hamfisted badassery. Then, on Mustafar, when Vader is slaughtering the Separatists, Nute Gunray pleads, "Lord Sidious promised us peace", then Vader cuts him down. In the novel, Vader puts on his best drama queen snark and quips, "The transmission was garbled. He promised you would be left in pieces."
I was disappointed that both those lines got cut when the "love has blinded you" dialogue got left in.
The closing lines from the novel have also stuck with me. The talk about the power of darkness, the comment on how a candle can beat it back, and then how love does not ignite a mere candle, it can ignite the stars. Just a beautiful lead in to the thesis of Anakin's redemption in Jedi.
I think it was that novel more than any other piece of pre-Disney Star Wars media that made it so Star Wars, for me, was not the six films, but all the other media, with the films as just a core piece of decoration.
I also read it before I watched it, and I think it vastly improved the experience of the movie to the point that I never felt very betrayed. I absolutely inserted the characterization from the novel into the movie when I did first see it, which prevented the "this character moment came out of nowhere" feelings that a lot of people seem to have had.
@@DarthRayj Yeah! The context the novel gives for why Anakin was so upset at not being made a Master made that scene work in a way that it never bothered me. Should have been in the film, but the novel made it work.
"I am your reward," the Sith Lord said, "You don't find me handsome?"
Peak Anakin snark.
I would like to mention that this video single-handedly overwhelmed the google drive folder holding the Blackened Mantle file
It's always funny when people manage to DDOS attack something by accident. I finally managed to watch it. It's pretty good.
Dooku whole life was actually built up for the dew it meme.
The dooku memes
"Sith are our specialty"(not really)
"My power has doubled since the last time we met"(Last week)
"Dew it"
"one of his editors"
Bro, that was Marcia Griffin, a world-class video editor that just happened to have been George's wife at the time.
Seriously. C'mon bro, credit is due, give it.
I will admit despite its flaws I realized why this is my favorite prequel film. Ian McDirmand. Every scene of him as Palpatine and Sidous has no right of being that entertaining and bombastic.
Emperor Palpatine is my favorite villain of all time for a good reason. As soon as the mask comes off he's such a delightfully unambiguous and unashamedly EVIL cackling little goblin man. I would be so fortunate if I could someday write a bad guy who's so much fun to watch being the absolute definition of a menace.
As Raul Julia's performance as M Bison taught us: if you're gonna be a villian, make it memorable.
"OF COURSE!"
He's evil and he loves it!
Nah, I didn't like his acting in Episode III
Dude knows how to chew scenery.
All the Princess Bride moves in the movie are named after actual Swordfighters from the 16th and 17th centuries, who probably had specific defenses and attacks.
agrippa (better known for other work)
@@user-er5mg6zj4v different Agrippa. This is Camillo Agrippa (Architect, Geometry Whiz and Fencer), not Marcus Vipsanius Agrippa (Contemporary of Gaius Julis Caesar), Or Heinrich Cornelius Agrippa von Nettesheim.
As a Princess Bride nerd (so lore dump incoming, sorry), they -did- actually have specific defense and attack styles. Most of them are actually manuals that HEMA folks will be able to point you at (or, in some cases, we have references to there -being- a manual, but not the actual manual itself), and were, at the time, famous teachers of the fencing art. As a matter of fact, even some of the move references are even correct for the style of the fencer in question - I think, from memory, Agrippa is about using geometry in fencing, so apt for uneven terrain, for example.
Sure, some of them don't make sense in context, but they got -this- close to being 100% accurate, and that's amazing. If they'd shuffled the order a little, they'd have hit it on the head, so I expect someone slipped up in one of the takes, and that happened to be the take that got used, or something similar, as happens. Huge kudos to the team as a whole, it's far more accurate than most other epic swordfights I've seen. And eminently quotable, too. ;-]
I remember the proto-Discourse (because capital D Discourse had not been invented yet) when 3D The Clone Wars was starting, and it's fun to watch Ashoka go from "oh great another quippy 'hello fellow kids' character" to a fully fleshed out, beloved part of the franchise. I know I was dreading where things were going to go at first, but time and practice really proved the doubts to be unfounded.
"This is the end of the age of heroes, but it has saved its best for last" goes way harder than it has any right to.
I’ve seen people hate on her for the way she held a lightsaber that’s how shallow the discourse was
Star Wars fans TM and hating the most recently introduced female character, name a more iconic duo.
I remember reading they deliberately made Ahsoka annoying. They knew she'd be hated no matter what, so they decided to make sure she was hated for reasons they could change, and by developing her character they could make her beloved. I'd say it worked like a charm
And sadly we are seeing a rise in that discourse stronger than ever.
As someone who's seen The Blackened Mantle, I must say, there's a delightful little bit of metahumor about it: The film is presented in black and white--a technical limitation of the era--yet features spectacular effects of space battles and whatnot. So I just enjoy "Yeah, we have the tech to simulate space ships and giant lizard dudes and a 4-arm mechanical menace, but color images? heavens no".
Jumping off the "Order 66 in real-time" point, I love how Jedi: Fallen Order showed how things went down.
Particularly abit small optional moment where Cal high-fives one of the clones, it''s such a cute moment but it it's also such a gut-punch because you know what going to happen. All the while this poor kid has no idea what's going on, it does such a good job of show how the Jedi that are left after order 66 are emotionally wrecked.
I'd love to see how it went down from the perspective of a third party. Maybe a non-clone member of the Repblic Navy seeing the clones turn on the Jedi in a split second. Perhaps some civilians who had just been liberated by the Republic watching in horror as their liberators turn on their commanders.
@@legomaniac213 Oh absolutely, it think the closest thing i can think of that does that was one of the old Clone Wars Adventures comics
Stuff like that is why I can't get behind the idea that the clones WILLINGLY followed Order 66.
I refuse to fucking believe the clones under Plo Koon just said "K" and fired
I love how Clone Wars and Bad Batch actually emphasize how this is a horrific tragedy not only for the Jedi but also for the clones.
@@joelsasmad couldn't agree more. I know when the idea of the inhibitor chips was first introduced, there were people who weren't on-board with it, but what's been done with that plot detail has been excellent, the Kanan Jarrus comic being a stand-out i my mind.
My favorite moments in Revenge of the Sith is in the french version when Darth Vader learns about Padme's death the 'NOO' you hear is Anakin's voice breaking through the voice-changer. Gives me chills every time
Looking at what happened with Revenge of the Sith as a movie is fascinating to me as a Metroid fan, because it's exactly what happened to Other M with Yoshio Sakamoto. The director can be a good director, but when he's the director, lead producer, lead writer, and voice director all at once...
T H E
B A B Y
I would not compare Revenge of the Sith to Other M… Revenge of the Sith is really good how could it possibly be anything like Other M?
@@cheezeebutter452I would respond with the fact that RotS isn't good, it's a mess of bad pacing, terrible dialogue, and VFX diarrhea. People just think it's good because they remember it fondly.
@@RabidGerbilInAFish The VFX are amazing for it's time and still hold up pretty well, idk wth you are on about.
I@@JaneEticFailure the vfx is overrused and that results in parts that feal a tad plastic.
In response to 2:50 my wife is deaf, and we watched the prequels in the theaters and she absolutely loved it. Then we got the VHS tapes (Yeah, it's been a while) and her first comment was, "I think there's something wrong with the caption." and my response was, "No, that's just how JarJar talks." "Well, it's stupid."
She enjoyed watching them at home less.
That’s SO funny omg.
That bit about the end of the age of heroes saving its best for last literally brought tears to my eyes.
One thing that bothered me about Revenge of the Sith was that Attack of the Clones ended with "begun the clone wars have" and Revenge starts with "aaaand the clone wars are ending. You missed most of it and we're definitely going to make you feel that"
I mean, there was the wholeass multimedia project with the Tartakovsky cartoon, comics and books in between them covering the war.
@@gokbay3057 see, if you live in a country where you only get the movies, all you get is "war started" "war ended"
@@Layn75 I mean, I don't live in North America or Western Europe but we still got the comics here. And the cartoon is very accessible on the internet wherever (though admittedly that was not the case when the movies were coming out).
Hi I am exactly the young teen who plucked Stover's novelization off the shelf in April 2005 and devoured that novel into my heart and was so excited for everyone else to see what I felt reading that book, only to have my dreams shattered by the crushing weight of Ep3s disappointment banquet.
The whole, "Padme dies of Big Sad," just … it does her dirty, and misses an opportunity to have her on the run, trying to hide from Vader, trying to keep the twins out of sight, lying about them even being twins, and, ultimately, having her die not because of HazBigSad, but because of something that Vader himself causes.
An absolute classic prophecy-trope: in trying to prevent The Prophecy, you cause it to happen.
TWO detail diatribes in a row?
Oh Osp you’re spoiling us.
You might say this is getting out of hand...!
Sorry, i had trouble paying attention to the second half because I was too busy thinking about Count Dooku realizing in real time that he was being fridged.
And NOT ONLY read he being fridged, but that the entire reason Palpatine recruited and trained him was so he could be fridged!
Peak tragedy, nothing can top it!
Hell yeah, Matthew Stover's novelization confirmed! Let's gooooo!!!
Peak novel mentioned
One thing I don't like Stover's interpretation is how he just makes Dooku a cowardly sociopath and readds the "beg for mercy" when Christopher Lee opted to have Dooku remain silent in that scene to maintain his "idealist" characterization.
He also makes palatine hilarious “master yoda! Le t me be the first t wish you a happy empire day!
"I am your reward." the Sith Lord said, "You don't find me handsome?"
@@user-gb7ji6xy5d He looked like he pooped his pants in the actual scene
54:57 Dooku was Yoda’s apprentice. Qui Gon was Dooku’s. And that line of Master-Apprentice ends in Darth Vader.
“Failed, have I.” - Yoda.
It's not all bad, it passes to ahsoka and eventually sabine
@@nines3048 if we’re counting cadet branches, yes. But aren’t they stuck in some other galaxy with Hippy-Beard Ezra?
Ezra is incidentally the mainline endpoint of Mace Windu too.
@@mra4521 cadet branches? I'm not sure what you mean by that, Anakin didn't take on any other padawans in his time. And yeah, it is cool that the two main lineages in star wars get so intensely tangled up
Was not expecting the reference to the Wizard Council banned spell of "Mend Buttcrack" today
"This story happened a long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away. It is already over. Nothing can be done to change it."
Au fanfic writers: “Bet”
I actually like Anakin's character arc, even if the execution could have been better :
Because he was told he was the chosen one at a very young age, he grew up to become arrogant and entitled, believing he was more powerful than anyone and the jedi were holding him back.
Then his arrogance grows into hubris when he thinks he can master life and death and play god to save Padme and bring his mother back from the dead.
All things that makes incredibly easy for Palpatine to manipulate him.
There is one bit of dialogue I actually loves from this movie : when Anakin and Obi Wan fight Dooku, Anakin boast that his powers doubled since their first fight. Dooku replie to Anakin "twice the power, twice the fall" shows he nows perfectly well where this road will send Anakin to. Plus, it shows the essential difference between Luke and Anakin :
When Luke loses against Darth Vador in The Empire Strikes Back, he rethink everyhting he thought about the jedi and his father, and become a better person than either the Obi Wan when he sees that there is still Light in his father, or Anakin when he rejects the Dark Side.
When Anakin loses against Dooku he doesn't rethinks his philosophy, he just thinks about having more power.
My god, "It's already over. Nothing can be done to change it." Is such a raw line. Especially immediately following something as iconic as a long time ago in a galaxy far far away...
the fact Backstroke of the west is mentioned makes this even better
"Everybody is good!"
"Section Ratio General! You is really a day of brave!"
@@CarbonMage "he is in my behind!"
I am so glad Red and Blue (and so many others) are cut from the same cloth as me, who cannot shake the specter of media that is neither bad nor great but just _not what it could be._ This is why Descendants still lives rent-free in my head.
Blue knows if he used ANY clips, even muted, there would be a black robe clad Bob Chapek somewhere going “Execute Order 66!”
Every member of the OSP audience suddenly turns into one of Disney’s copyright lawyers and goes on the offensive
Hey, creator here, glad you enjoyed The Blackened Mantle :)
I made the original version in 2015 (under the old name "Darth Lunar") but the footage quality wasn't 100% there. I believe GMatias upgraded it to a beautifully crisp 1080p and spoonito made the B&W "Kurosawa" version with sepia flashbacks in 2023.
Thanks for watching and breaking it down so well!
20:09 wait, WHAT?
The episode that actually made me like Ahsoka as a character after her less-than-ideal introduction?
Lightsaber Lost slaps
And I'm surprised they criticized the Mortis arc, that's one of the best in the series, though I'm guessing it's probably because they didn't understand it was largely meant to be allegorical. It's more significant less in that "FORCE GODS EXIST," and more so by asking, "What does Anakin being the Chosen One actually mean, and how does it play into his character?" Also they apparently haven't watched Rebels yet, which implies that they're still alive in some form, since they're literal embodiments of the Force and technically can't be killed.
@@thirdcoinedgeIn my opinion Mortis kind of sucks it makes the force way to clear, one of the good things about the force is that different characters and factions see it differently and Mortis removes that.
@@thirdcoinedgeI suppose that’s why I’ve always been pretty 50/50 with it. I never thought about it on a deeper level and saw it purely as FORCE GODS EXIST NOW! But thinking about it under the lenses of it being purely allegorical and more of a depiction of Anakins feelings and thoughts on his role in all this as the chosen one does make it way better.
@@ricardodnda3826I mean, yeah, it does that if you take it literally, and not allegorically
@@ricardodnda3826 The Mortis arc doesn't clear anything up. It's both allegorical and a peek at how Anakin perceives the Force: the Light side is female (his mother), the Dark side is male (Anakin himself), the restraint on the Darkness is an older male figure (Obi-wan).
46:05 My favorite example of this from Stover's RotS would have to be when the Invisible Hand is crashing into the planet. We get the perspective of a Republic Officer on a nearby bridge watching it go down, and he gives prayer because, mentally, he's already written off everyone on that ship as dead, because no one can safely land a ship like that.
And then it cuts back to Anakin, on the bridge, getting ready to do just that. It describes him as a conductor, leading an orchestra of thrusters and drag fins in a beautiful symphony, for what's maybe the greatest feat of piloting in history, managing to set the ship down relatively safely. It takes what was just "another happy landing", and turns it into Anakin making a miracle happen.
Fucking masterful prose.
I love Red's little ''hehe" giggle. It makes me think she's about to go goblin mode and it make me happy.
One of honestly my favorite details in the book is that the narration mentions that after Anakin started having nightmares of Padme dying, he eventually just stopped sleeping entirely for several days, he was using the force to allow his body to function and keep himself from literally dying of exhaustion, but in the context of the book, it makes a lot of sense why Anakin’s acting fairly irrationally, because the dude has spent possibly a week not sleeping.
I remember telling my best friend when Revenge of the Sith came out "everyone will hate this now, but will realize how good it was when we grow up." The vindication for Hayden Christensen and the prequels as a whole is so heartwarming. They're my perfect star wars movies and I love they're getting new found attention
Part of the reason is due to the Sequel trilogy being even more divisive and Disney's handling of the franchise. People can look back at the prequels and realize that while they have problems, it still tried to tell its own story and does do some things better than the original series.
Just wait. Historical revisionism will come for the Sequels as well. Though as “Clone Wars” type cartoon would help it out. Take up the task of redeeming Rise of Skywalker.
@@matt0044 Uhhh... no.
@@matt0044 maybe the last jedi, but I highly doubt rise of skywalker will get the same treatment
@@MarcieParcie If anything it will get reinterpreted as an impressive outing for such a long comedy film.
What has always stuck with me about Clone Wars Anakin is his absolute insistence that he can and will save everyone who needs saving- if Obi Wan and Ahsoka are in danger and he’s faced with a choice, he won’t choose, he has to save them both
and he succeeds most of the time! but what happens if he can't save someone? something like that could break a man...
Good god, get a (writing) room, you two
I'll give credit where credit is due: in Hollywood, having the villain win is VERY rare, especially in the end of a trilogy
It gave us the reasoning why the empire rose, why the jedi were nearly extinct, and how Anakin became Vader
I really wish there were more movies where the villains win, especially in long sagas
For long stories, it is common to have the villains win halfway through (Ep. 3 is the halfway point of the original 6 movie Saga). One Piece did this with The Summit War Arc, Naruto did this with the Sasuke Retrieval Arc, MHA did this during its first war arc, JJK did this during Shibuya.
I’m using anime as example’s because they are insanely long so it’s very common for stuff like this to happen. Wheel of Time also lets its villains get wins in the middle portion, Game of Thrones has the Red Wedding. It’s way more common than you think
@@drpepperman2765 Oh I know (as you can tell by my Channel name) with manga material, a villain getting a win keeps the story interesting
I agree, but I think a big reason why we got a movie where the villain wins so decisively (more so than in Empire) is because it was already known that they would lose. But I do agree, would love to see more movies where the villain wins
Seems to me that 50% of all horror movies end with the villain winning.
@@scarletcroc3821 Yeah I don't think you can really credit the movie for doing what it had to do to fit the basic premise. It's a prequel to a movie with an evil empire. It was required to have the bad guys win
“The Blackened Mantel” bit reminds me of those artist who take several puzzles that are printed by the same company and mixing and mashing them to make a different image
Blue singing the praises of the power of narrative prose is a balm to my English teacher heart. So you DID pay attention in school
something I vividly remember from the OG Clone Wars was a moment in the Ventress vs Anakin fight where they're staring each other down in the rain and you see the raindrops that hit their lightsabres evaporate on contact and that little detail was just so neat to me
Matthew Stover's novel is, for me, not just peak Star Wars but also straight up good fiction. It's the SW book I recommend the most to people who aren't even into Star Wars
I recently finished recently and (aside from Chapter 19) it is either one of or THE best Star Wars Legends novels and shows how great the original expanded universe was able to get.
It's legitimately ranked highly in my personal favorite literary works of all time. Honestly, I read it before I was able to watch the movie, and I think that greatly elevated my perception of the movie itself because I was inserting character thoughts from the book into the scenes without even trying.
But yeah, the writing is incredibly melodramatic (and also just really good), but it's like that because the entire universe of Star Wars is supposed to be melodramatic, it's a f***in *space opera*
I've seen a lot of Star Wars UA-camrs cite the Stover Ep3 novel over the years for more than a few powerful passages. But, this discussion for sure pushed me over the edge. I'll have to add it to my backlog. The assorted fanfics discussed toward the end look great too!
In my opinion, the book version by Matt Stover is the definitive version of Revenge of the Sith.
When all else fails, the voice actors in your mind (reading voice) do the heavy lifting to make scenes great.
Wel besides Hayden just replace him with Matt.
@@stevenhedge2850I’m pretty sure at this point between AI and him just saying the lines we could probably recut revenge of the Sith and sun Hayden over with Matt
@@creed8712 I always found it funny that even hayden sounded like he was copying Matt in asokha
@@stevenhedge2850 he straight up watched clone wars to prepare for the role, i think he might've been
So, Red mentions Anakin eating bugs in the 2003 clone wars - which he does! - but that's from the SECOND season. The one nobody talks about.
This is the season that features Anakin going on a whole-ass spirit quest after getting tattooed by leeches. Anakin the 2003 show isn't just 'his one fight with Ventress'. It's Hokezet - Ghost Hand.
The characterisation of Anakin as being someone who will do ANYTHING for what is right and who he loves, starts here. It starts on a snow planet where he loses his hand once again, and the victims of the Techno Union's experiments all rip off their own mechanical limbs to follow him. There's more to unpack about that one segment than I think most people give credit to GennedyWars.
It's actually "holt kezed" which is "your dead hand" in slightly-antiquated Hungarian. Those aliens were speaking Hungarian (rendered nearly-incomprehensible by the VAs' pronunciation; apparently they couldn't find or bother to look for a dialect coach).
I imagine they deliberately chose not to, to make the language sound ‘more alien’. Star Wars has a history of this, the Ewok language was based on a real one too.
If anything the mistake here was not deliberately mangling it *more.*
If nothing else, let Revenge of the Sith be forever remembered as the greatest source of memes the franchise ever gave us 😊
PT being set in Memeland is so true.
*The Disney sequel trilogy has entered the chat*
TFA and TLJ have the quality of giving us several memes.
HOWEVER Skywalker something, only gave us 1. Somehow he returned.
@nataleynakata3687 the only meme I've seen come out of the Disney movies is "Amazing, everything you said is wrong". Amusingly that's from the film most Star Wars fans say they hate.
@@nataleynakata3687 Nah, whatever you think of the quality of either trilogy Prequels are certainly stronger in the meme department.
The first 20 Minutes of Revenge of the Sith are honestly cinematic perfection.
The Spacebattle, the banter, the visuals, the music....its all peak.
The slow wardrums playing when the camera follows Anakins and Obi-Wans fighter around the Venator, then the full theme blaring once they dip down into the Battle of Coruscant is absolut oerfection, everything from then till Padme telling Anakin shes pregnant is.
Over 20 years and SW still hasnt managed to top that spacebattle
Not sure if this is going to be brought up but I've just finished reading it, the Revenge of the Sith Novelisation has A LOT of improvements (although it does remove the memes) and I highly recommend it. For example: Palpatine manipulating his duel to his advantage for evidence for his declaration of the Jedi betraying the Galactic Republic (and using underhanded tactics to wipe out the Jedi in front of him), the prose about the "effective Jedi trap", Anakin's sleep deprived perspective of Palpatine revealing himself, and the "This is what it feels to be Anakin Skywalker. Forever..." prose which describes his first moments in the Vader armour which is one of my favourite moments from any Star Wars novel... if nothing else, find somewhere to read that specific part!
However, Chapter 19 is the weakest with Anakin coming up with puns while slaying his way through Mustafar while Obi Wan pretends to be a hunchback that can't speak Galactic Basic to infiltrate the Jedi Temple post Order 66.
Chapter 19 sounds great
@@akindatallmidget6508 "I am your reward," the Sith Lord said, "You don't find me handsome?"
@@Jedi_Spartan 💀💀💀
@@akindatallmidget6508 Honestly, I thought the Mustafar scene was a pretty fun interjection and also fits really well with how Anakin *would* act once he finally decided "fk it, the only person that matters to me is Padme, so much for this Jedi BS"; he turns all his snarky "I am the Chosen One, you can't win" energy that he has *always* had straight into dispassionate cruelty.
@@Jedi_Spartan You have to admit, that line is entirely in character for Anakin.
43:00 In which BLUE absolutely devours the most delicious narration ever written
I love the fan edit where they stuff the last episodes of the Clone Wars between revenge of the sith, its so emotionally damming
Just realized something. I used to think making an entire army clones of one guy was stupid because the most effective teams are made up of a variety of different types of badass characters so like why limit your to one type of soldier.
Just now I remembered that clones are basically identical twins there is something very special about the way identical twins who are raised together communicate. They can know how eachother thinks in a way regular siblings can’t. Also in a setting like StarWars the bonds between identical twins might have a mystical quality.
A clone army would then be an attempt to mass produce that.
I've never bought the idea that George Lucas had all this planned out in his head and this is just him bringing it forth. I feel like he perhaps had a series of vignettes in his head, and then had to flesh out a story to tie them all together. Or maybe that's just how I am interpreting the prequels. And those little plot points and scenes indeed are powerful, and do land with us; they are so impactful to the fanbase that we all keep trying to re-join them because we want the rest of the meat to be worthy of the bones.
That's basically been proven on multiple occasions. Literally he has been asked about stuff in the series, even the movies he made not just the extended universe stuff, at public events and he'll say something that absolutely contradicts something else, someone will point that out, and then he throws a tantrum. Even basic shit that he should know like the force, or what some character was doing during some events. He then proceeds to claim that he knows, and has always known, everything that has ever happened in Star Wars more than anyone else.
The ending of the RotS book killed me. It viscerally describes, in SECOND PERSON, the medical transformation into Vader. "This is what it feels like to be Anakin Skywalker. Forever..." Gaaaah
ROTS needs to become the movie that deserves "I am the Senate."
I read Stover's novelization before seeing the movie. Blue is spot-on: "This book is amazing! This movie... lacks all the things that made the book good." Stover's over the top, operatic prose and descriptions and the additional scenes digging into the political quagmires the war dug everyone into sell the tragedy. And the final line about light in the darkness concluding on "Love can ignite the stars" is another great way to remind the reader: "It looks bad now, but you already know it gets better"
I think you guys have delivered one of thr the most nuanced critical interpretations of not only this film, but Star Wars as a series.
It's something for everyone. Despite every flaw, these stories were and still are about having fun.
To quote the late Carrie Fisher "It's about family, and that's what timeless about it."
I could give a lot of crap about some of the media, but never to the point of hate. Why? Because it's fun. Because the good moments outshine the bad for me.
My inner Star Wars nerd is howling at you calling Ventress a Sith Lord.
Blue's judgements being impacted for nineteen years by that ever-lingering Revenge of the Sith cloud around him probably would have made Red his chosen one if Blue hadn't only dealt in absolutes.
Cringe
@@balabanasiretido not try to mock the cringe. that's impossible. instead, only try to realize the truth: there is no cringe.
then you will see that it is not the cringe that you mock, it is only yourself.