DAREDEVIL SEASON 2 - A Complicated Disaster
Вставка
- Опубліковано 6 чер 2024
- A discussion of how the second season of Netflix's "Daredevil" portrays Frank Castle, the terrible behind the scenes views that led to the disaster that is The Hand, and what this second season has to say about the world of Daredevil.
PATREON - / mattdraper
TWITTER - / mattdraperyt
#Daredevil
#Darecember
#MarvelComics
0:00 Intro
2:05 The Punisher's Lament
8:22 The Many Problems of The Hand
13:14 Searching for Meaning With Daredevil
17:55 Outro and Goodbye to Darecember
Music:
“Daredevil" OST by John Paesano
"Fifth Avenue Stroll"
"Vampires" by The Midnight
themidnight.bandcamp.com/ - Фільми й анімація
It's the Darecember finale! Read the full essay here: www.comicbookherald.com/daredevil-season-2-a-complicated-disaster/
Watch all of my Daredevil videos here: ua-cam.com/play/PLJ7bdAZiniF89gHERNy3WnmQaSSqygikd.html
Is Daredevil your favorite superhero? And I hope you have a Happy New Year🎉
HOT TAKE: I prefer Thomas Jane as the Punisher and I want his version in the MCU at some point.
But did you really have to compare the Punisher to Kiritsugu Emiya? The Punisher kills people who actually did wrong while the Mage/Magus Killer kills either for money, or something they MIGHT do in the future. I take umbridge at comparing the two because Frank has something Kiritsugu doesn't have: *Actual self-awhereness* !
@@aisnota5192 I didn’t and I don’t know what you’re talking about.
@@MattDraper Yeah, fair enough. I think the phrasing triggered some bad anime flashbacks. I happen to be a bigger fan of the MAX version of the Punisher who has no delusions about his work.
Despite its flaws, I always felt that if the "bad" season of your show is the level of quality that DD S2 is, then you've got a good ass show.
Pretty much
Agreed. While I didn’t give a crap about the ninjas or Elektra, the stuff with the punisher was awesome! Honestly, they could’ve made a seven or eight episode season out of just that!
The scene between Matt and Frank on the roof is perfection
@@EVGriffinJr I liked Elektra, Nobu was cool, didn’t care much about the rest of the hand tho. I still love this season.
I wouldnt call it a disaster, season 2 had some of the best moments of the show
It's a good hook for a title thou
Yes it did is one of my favorite seasons
It was pretty uneven. The second half is definitely all over the place
@@Cj-xt6tv it may not be perfect but it still was amazing season for beginning to end even season 1 of Luke Cage was great the first half was everything else went complete sideways but season 2 made up for it because I love Bushmaster
@@2jebeal definitely gotta disagree. The first 4 punisher episodes are amazing but it quickly goes sideways with the hand, which are terrible, not fleshed out, caricature villains
Is Season 2 as good as 1 and 3? No. Is it still a perfect adaptation of the character? Yes. Is it still up there with the best superhero tv? Yes. Is it still part of the best superhero adaptation out there? Yes.
exactly. The corridor scene with DD fighting all the goons with the chain attached to his arm was a masterpiece
I'm glad that you have opinions.
@@johnnyskinwalker4095 That's one scene you're talking about, my guy.
@@calebmurphy9406 stfu
@@calebmurphy9406 i totally appreciate story writers for s2. they changed comic story of elektra to get killed by a man, you forget about daredevil movie elektra was killed by bullseye some called it as feminism where they actually did comic accurate story . in daredevil s2 they changed it so elektra sacrifies herself to protect matt
When the 'worst' season of a show is still highly entertaining, its a sign of how good the show is
When I think of this season, I go "The Punisher part was pretty good" and "Watch Matt failing at time management" also "Karen, you're smarter than this, what the hell?"
@@TeganCantEven I know. There’s this one part I hate because it really made Karen look like an idiot. And then the season ends with that voiceover that honestly was not needed.
i will never not be furious about her jumping to the conclusion that matt was having an affair with elektra when stick let her in, elektra is visibly not well, and everyone is fully clothed.
@@TeganCantEven yup.
@@TeganCantEven Matt goes along with it cause The Hand are a huge threat and he cannot just let them come in the city. People do not understand that yea things might be annoying in the World of Daredevil but this is what it is the life of Matt Murdock/Daredevil. He is a damaged being and people are not supposed to do what they are supposed to. These are three-dimensional people and stuff like that will happen. It is better that Matt is in a bind that he has to go out of like fighting the Hand while having to be in court defending Frank Castle, etc...This is what this Universe is all about. This might be annoying but this is what makes it good at the same time. This is not Disney's MCU.
@@carleeelizabeth Whenever that "man helps a woman, his girlfriend walks in and assumes he's cheating on her with said woman" cliche happens in any show it annoys me.
Punisher was the more consistently good, better paced, and interesting than The Hand
I wish the entirety of S2 was Daredevil vs Punisher so we could have an actual resolution to their conflict.
The problem is there wasn't anything really for Punisher to do once he's out of prison. Even he overstayed his welcome this season.
The whole time I kept going "How do you make Immortal Death Cult Ninjas boring?" And well, I got an answer.
Shame the Punisher show sent me to sleep. He was so cool in DD2
@@BobsiPringlez me too. I couldn’t take any of the bad guys, villains, criminals, or antagonists seriously. And they resetted his origin and made him a ladies man
Was a good season but it had way too much going on in order to setup defenders which held it back from being great.
The Iron Fist show before Defenders was shit too.
And Defenders was pretty boring and crap too
So they messed up Season 2 for that peice of shit? I want a redo.
As much as I disliked The Defenders, I want to watch it again because of Matt, Foggy, and Karen. @BobsiPringlez
If they'd focused on the conflict between Matt and Frank over their different methods and setting up Kingpin for Season 3 instead of the Hand storyline it would have been better.
Well said Xehanort.
@@stonefree7973 keyblade
Nah tbh I think the best way to do it would be separate the plotlines. The hand shit was shoehorned in to accommodate Iron shit and the Defenders. If they left the crossover for a later date and had the individual storylines progress we could have had.
Daredevil - Kingpin, Maggia
Daredevil - Punisher, Elektra
Daredevil - Hand, Elektra
Daredevil - Kingpin, Bullseye.
That would be even more of a masterpiece than what we got.
Had they made it a 8 episodes season focusing on Daredevil and the Punisher that would've made a flawless season. The Elektra arc is indeed the "this is too much story" flaw, but in a 2nd view I got to understand its purpose for Matt's story line. Which is to get Matt's life off track and lead him to his fall.
If only the full season was as good as the punisher episodes
And if only The Punisher show was nearly as good as the Punisher in Daredevil Season 2.
@@valenttjoccuri4231 yep
@@valenttjoccuri4231 facts lol. If only The Punisher show was an actual Punisher show...
@@tryit742 personally I really enjoyed the punisher I’m interested why you didn’t
@@jayef9960 Because if one were to rename it with something other than "The Punisher" and nobody told me it was a Punisher show, I would believe it. It felt like a generic, Jason Bourne rip-off rather than a Punisher show. It retreaded the same plot line of "becoming Punisher by the end" two times when in Daredevil S2 he's literally already the Punisher. It's like they ignored what worked in DD S2. I'm not saying the show has to be panel-by-panel like the Punisher comics, but at least make sure it still feels like a Punisher show. The character in itself doesn't already have that too much nuance, but the show, instead of trying to do something about that, fell instead into the hole of another generic war veteran with PTSD story, which is an overdone plot when I can name 10 movies/shows that does it way better.
Man, killing Ben Urich in season 1 was a big mistake, it was cool for the story, but I would have liked to see more of him.
I fell like they should’ve focused more on Matt and Frank’s dynamic. Elektra came in at the worst tjme
all that stuff was so boring
it was awful. punisher should have had more time
I hate Elektra in this show.
thats the point tho things go great him and karen talk and at the worst time she comes in shes not suppose to be a loved hero more of complicated love story holding him bacck
Thanks for bringing awareness to what Jeph Loeb did. I was not aware of it and am now disgusted.
Yeah holy shit!
I don't want to discredit Peter Shinkoda's remark, I'm positive just from how the second season plays out compared to seasons of 99% of the rest of the Netflix stuff that there were certainly things cut from it because of the amount that was overfilling Season 2 of Daredevil to begin with.
However, because of the presence of Asian characters in Agents of Shield, Iron Fist, and Runaways, other shows which Jeph Loeb also helped create (plus Ray Nadeem in season 3 of Daredevil), I'm not sure I seriously believe that he had some prejudice agenda to just not do things for Asian characters when there had already been and would continue to be prominent Asian characters that are very developed in other shows under his wing. I know some people have pointed to Quake as being white-passing, but Quake's mother wasn't, Melinda May isn't, and Nico Minoru also is not white-passing.
What I think more likely happened is that Nobu + Gao stuff was cut and Jeph Loeb simply made an ugly and tasteless joke/remark about it. I find it hard to believe it was cut with sincere belief that people wouldn't care about the characters because they're Asian, given that Ray Nadeem, the deuteragonist of season 3, is Asian. And no, the fans would not have had an issue with backstory to these characters.
Given how Daredevil handled Nadeem's entire family (Sunita Deshpande said that, much like Amy Rutberg, the writers gave her more scenes than they planned because they liked her performance) and Ben Urich, and how Iron Fist handled Colleen, The Punisher handled Madani, Jessica Jones handled Malcolm, and Luke Cage handled black characters as a whole, Occam's Razor (or whatever) would say that it's more likely a lot of Nobu's material ended up on the cutting room floor because of how stuffed season 2 was trying to juggle the Punisher origin story and the Elektra mythos simultaneously.
@@TheLewistownTrainspotter8102 Don’t invent a situation in your heard to make it easier to enjoy the show.
@@MattDraper i agree with Karen comment let's face it the character of gao was fun and all in season 1 mysterious old woman but the potential to exploit is not much they tied her to the hand and every time we see her in later seasons and series is just an old woman near other boring ancient people who can 't fight but rapresent the "power "of the hand ,Nobu had a big roll and. Was presented as a legitimate treat to matt he freaking killed Elektra knowing the backstories of theese characters would only destroyed the veil of mistery that made them interesting ,i Think loeb used them well and he is far from racicst but face it the hand Is a streotype ninja clan used in comics to give a more oriental tone to the story like in wolverine or daredevil their parody the foot clan is more memorable than them and only because of Shredder ( maybe spell it wrong) .in conclusion i was satisfied with the result for Nobu who at least didn't endear ad a joke
He made television division almost a middle finger to the fans. With Daredevil, and his views with animation setting all Marvel adaptation 10 years back
I remember being so conflicted on this season. Shame that they couldn't stretch out the first half, since it was legitimately up there with season 1 imo
First Half of Season 2 was Brilliant
Second Half of Season 2 was Good
Conclusion: Great season but not as fantastic as the other two seasons
Personally I just think The Hand as it is in the comics just didn’t mix well with this world.
They were basically a group of evil ninjas without a face, which in my opinion is the worst part about it.
What bugs me is the writers tried to make the hand more interesting in the defenders and iron fist and they fail spectacularly. In the comics the hand worships an evil demon and they want to release it upon the world. But in the show they just want to mine underneath New York so that they can get the dragon bones they need to continue to be immortal. Instead of going all in and making the hand fun and weird they tried to create a more "grounded" motivation that just made them even more dull. The avengers built to the superheroes fighting and army of aliens. The defenders built to 4 superheroes in a mine shaft fighting a bunch of faceless guys in business suits like they and already been doing for the entire show.
Yeah. The show, apart from Matt's powers had a Nolan Batman vibe to it which supernatural ninjas didn't fit with.
I think the Hand mixes fine, they're tied to Matt's origin and training. The problem imo is that they lack a figurehead and leader and as a group they're ill-defined. Nobu should've been more developed but even if he was, The Hand got worse with every subsequent appearance and character involved with them in Iron Fist and Defenders between Colleen, Bakuto, Gao, Ripley, that one Japanese guy, etc.
@@galactic85 Yea but this is not the MCU, the appeal of it is that it is grounded. Having a demon would not have worked and I'm glad and they did not use it. But they could have done something better with them than what they did.
@@johnnyskinwalker4095 lol I mean, by all accouts, the Netflix stuff has never been confirmed to not be part of the MCU. Just more disconnected.
A weird thing in Daredevil Season 3 is Murdock basically on a journey to finish off Kingpin. He says he's going to do it over and over again, but never once says maybe he should team up with Punisher for that task. If that's the sort of mission you're on, that's the guy to work with. Maybe the fact that he never thought of looking for the Punisher was a way of showing he didn't truly feel that ending the Kingpin was what he actually wanted?
I feel like as soon as Punisher got his own show, he couldn't come back. Which is a shame.
The way Matt was in Season 3 was a "This is my fight. I'm gonna kill Fisk" attitude so even if Punisher getting his own show hadn't happened Matt wouldn't have gotten Frank to help him anyway.
Matt are you going to do punisher tv or comic explained
Don't tell me I have to wait another year to hear you talk about season 3
You're going to have to wait another year to hear me talk about season 3.
@@MattDraper Cue the Daredevil shout after he spares Fisk at the end of Season 3.
@@MattDraper dammit Draper! Don't let this series disappear for a year like the Avatar
If this was just Punisher, Kingpin, and Matt, S2 would have been amazing
I've always had very complicated feelings towards Daredevil Season 2, not helped by some of the people involved in the show. I thought you articulated the issues I had with the season brilliantly, great job mate.
Interesting take on season 2. I’m probably in the minority, but I actually loved the stuff with Elektra. In contrast to others, I found there to be too much of the Punisher for my taste. That said, I agree that the Hand was a disappointment. They were especially lame in The Defenders.
I'm with you. Elektra and Matt+Elektra scenes were my favorite parts of the season.
Soft af.
Punisher scenes.
14:45 That's something I really hated about Foggy in Season 1. "I don't like what you do Matt therefore everything you do is wrong" was his entire attitude.
Sure, but Foggy wasn't like that in Season 1 UNTIL he found out about Daredevil. Before that, he's a fun dude. Season 2 on the other hand...
What's worse is his ableist comment in S1 about Matt's blindness... like, I get that you're angry after finding out Matt's secret life, but don't discount his disability. He's still very much blind. As a disabled person, Foggy really ticked me off during S1. And when I didn't think it could get worse, Foggy and Karen treat Matt's call to action to help the people whose cries he hears at night as an "addiction" in the later seasons just sealed it for me. People say Matt is a bad friend, which he can be, but no one ever calls out Foggy and Karen for their low-key ableism and diminishing addiction by all wily-nily using it as an analogy for Matt wanting to be Daredevil. They aren't very good friends too.
@@tryit742 Foggy also at times was willing to defend people he knew were guilty for a quick buck.
@@tryit742 Goddamn, this. So much this.
Seeing so many people on Reddit commending Foggy as ‘the real MVP’ of the series when he becomes a pretty shitty friend once he finds out Matt is DD boggles my mind.
The worst part is that neither him, nor Karen are called out for their ableism and being selfish, pretty shitty friends themselves, as far as I’m aware.
I really liked Daredevil Season 2. I thought the Punisher stuff was great, better than the Punisher show. I didn't really get what the Hand were doing, but I'm not against these shows doing strange stuff with their plotlines.
I wasnt against them doing "strange" stuff with the plot either but after a while the show should have given us more to the hand beyond just "mysterious ninja cult" or at least built to something big beyond just "fight more ninjas!" They had no plan or endgame beyond just being mysterious. The only reason that hand was even remotely entertaining for me is because ninjas are cool. But when it became clear that they weren't going to do anything that big like summon a demon bent on destroying the city or anything like that I lost interest.
We need more Punisher hanging cartel members on meat hooks
When Matt was talking about how bad Defenders is I was thinking "So you could say The Defenders is indefensible?"
To be honest Daredevil season 2 is one of my all-time favorite seasons yes it has a flaws but it felt more like it felt more like the Daredevil comic books coming to life I love the upgrade suit for Matt I love Electra and the hand being the big bads of the season and I freaking love The punisher in this season and also Matt fighting got his baton weapon with the grapple hook it's up more like Frank Miller vision coming to life but we all have our opinions and I respect that once again I love your videos I'm a big fan I would like to ask do you think one day you can review Batman under the Red Hood it's one of my all-time favorite Batman films up there with mask of the Phantasm
I liked the more comic books elements as well but they came at the expense of the overall story telling and thematic threads of the season. It's the reason I prefer season 3 and consider it to be the best one even though matt doesnt have his costume. It brought in the more comic books elements without sacrificing character development and thematic exploration.
@@galactic85 I know season 2 isn't perfect but it fell more like the Daredevil comics coming to life and it's still awesome but season 3 is great to don't get me wrong but season 2 is still in my opinion the best Season ever
@@2jebeal yea
It's not my favorite season but I definitely see where you're coming from and why anyone would have this season as their favorite. I think it gets too much hate- it's still a good season even if it's not as good as the other two. And you hit it right on by saying S2 felt the most comic-booky. I mean it has The Punisher, Elektra, Kingpin, and Nobu all in the same season. It also has Matt fighting hordes of Hand ninjas side-by-side with Elektra, and in his red suit. It definitely is the comic book come alive. It deserves more credit because of that.
@@tryit742 exactly don't get me wrong I love season 1 and 3 but season 2 is still amazing my all-time favorite season I get that it has problems but that's so much good in season 2 I love every bit of it I got the DVD of season 2 and I keep watching it and I never stop loving it because my new upgrade suit is amazing and I love that he has his Baton Weapon with the grappling hook Electra and the punishers comic book costumes come to life was beautiful I love it so much it's still my favorite season and I'm still going to fan season 2 no matter what
Marvel's biggest mistake: Putting Jeph Loeb in charge of there Television division.
Was that Ike Perlmutter's call?
@@katherinealvarez9216 No matter who made that call, it was the wrong one.
I wouldn't entirely take Shinkoda's word as the truth. I am pretty sure he was lying when he said he was paid less than the extras.
@@TheLewistownTrainspotter8102 "Pretty sure"
one hell of a gut instinct you have, considering you have literally nothing to back up these insane theories of yours.
@@flamepunk8683 What's your counter evidence then? He said she said? Right 🤡
Disaster is not how I would choose to describe season 2 howyever I agree with your overall point. Great video
I love how you showed some love towards Elektra 15:02
The actress and the character seem very underrated and deserve some love.
Thanks for all the great videos this year Matt. Happy New Year
Great video once again! Definitely agree that season 2 is the week link in Daredevil. Thanks for using “Vampires” by the midnight in your finale. It brings a feeling of nostalgia for when I first discovered your channel. Thanks so much for all you do and have a happy New Year!
Yay! The great outro song is back!
Wow you really gave this alot of thought. Very in depth analysis and critique.
It’s been a minute since I’ve watched your vids. Can’t wait to start 2021 off right with a MD binge watch! Keep up the excellent work
Great points through this video, Matt. I am not as clever so I articulate my feelings on this by saying "there was just too much going on". I appreciate your breakdown and critique of this season, finally giving substance to my own lack of brain smarts.
Don't lie! Your brain is very special!
Thank you, Matt!
Great essay Matt. Really enjoyed you in your more Playful editing moments. Also really liked elements of Season 2 and to me it’s a portrait of addiction. To Matt, it’s violence. I just see that all over the season and it resonates with me. Anyways happy new year!
I will say Jessica Jones and Luke Cage were amazing television just wanted to put that out there
Based on the high quality content of your Daredevil series... I am in eager anticipation of your perspective on Daredevil Season three. Happy New year
Darecember 2: Electra Boogaloo has been fantastic Matt, just like last year's! I fell in love wit the character of Matt Murdock and Daredevil when i first watched the 1st season of the Netflix show, and these Darecembers along wit your previous works on Daredevil comics have only solidified my love for the character. Thank you and to next year's Darecember!
I love how S2 is considered a disaster but s4 of arrow is considered amazing. Truly tells you the standard of The Daredevil show.
Edit: apparently I got confused which arrow season was considered amazing. You guys get the point tho.
I thought season 4 of arrow was the most hated season of the show? There was a whole story on cbr.com about how the subreddit for arrow briefly switched to a daredevil subreddit because the fans hated the finale of season 4 so much.
Arrow Season 4 was so awful, now Season 5 was the amazing one.
Idk what you are talking about season 4 of arrow sucked
If you don't correct us with which season you are actually referring to, then we don't have the perspective needed to assess the comment.
@@crazydud3380 every season of DD is better than the best season of arrow
You made a great point about the hand being a shallow, faceless stereotype. I didn't even pick up on that while watching but I totally agree! Gao was the most intimidating of fisk's business partners in season one, and I totally hate they squandered her.
I really appreciate that this goes in depth with the issues of the Hand and doesn't go with the untrue, cheap excuse of "ninjas just don't fit" that a lot of people complain with.
It's weird people say that when Daredevil is a ninja super-hero. That's like saying aliens don't fit the tone of a Superman story.
@@thereccher8746 I think it's because Season 1 of the show had such wide mainstream appeal that a lot of casuals watched and had a different impression of where things would go in mind. To them Nobu in S1 was just a weird one-off thing because he's asian and they expected Daredevil to be this permanently homemade black-suited brawling guy. I remember when Season 1 came out some of the casual complaints were that he was doing things like flipping/fighting with agility too much and they didn't like when he got the suit and things like that, where as for me as a fan that was some of the coolest and most exciting/promising stuff to see.
@@JusRed48 The Hand didn't fit though. Apart from Matt everyone else was a normal human. Foggy, Karen, Frank, Fisk, Bullseye, Vanessa, Claire and the like were all regular people. Had there been more superhuman and supernatural elements in the series it could have worked but there wasn't.
Listening to you demolish how terrible the Hand was is like a late Christmas present. You hit on a lot of the problems with DDS2 that would go on to drag down the rest of the MCU Netflix shows, *especially* the padding and pacing problems and the overindulgence in splattering violence as a substitute for compelling storytelling.
@Daredevil Lebron They definitely had some effectively spooky moments and sometimes made an interesting combat challenge for Daredevil, but like the video said, their actual plot was a mess, they had no personality or resonance with the protagonists, and their depiction was baldly racist.
@@Poodlestroop i think iron fist did them better.
While DD S2 is the weakest it still has a lot of my favorite moments from the show, The Daredevil and Punisher rooftop scene, Frank telling Daredevil about his kids, Matt meeting Fisk in prison, and Matt not killing the man who killed his dad
Perfect timing. I just started rewatching Daredevil and am on S2.
I wouldn't really classify it as a disaster! It was messy at times but still great TV imo
The hits keep fuckin coming just sad December's over was really hoping we'd get to season 3 before darecember was up
He's spreading it out. 1 season of daredevil for every season of "daredecember."
@@galactic85 yea I kinda figured that but was still hoping
It’s definitely the worst season of the show but the punisher arcs highs beat the remaining seasons lows, for me, cementing it as an overall decent and acceptable season of the show that built Matt’s character, and then pushed him to a breaking point with Elektra’s “death”. With his body and spirit being broken at the end of defender’s and beginning of season 3. It was perfect from episodes 1-4 imo, and added some amazing action scenes and character work.
This feels kind of weird as it seems less of a review and more of a rant. But Matt is in the right to point out Jeph Loeb's BS.
Cant wait for a season 3 video
I think this season mainly gets a bad rap because the other two seasons are just so good that the dips in this one stand out more, but it definitely has its moments
@Daredevil Lebron my thoughts exactly
Hot take: The worst of daredevil is better than best of any superhero show
Really? Even The boys and invincible? Just finished S2 and even tho I like it a bit too much, I still think it’s not quite up there with S1 and the other two shows
@@Dookieman1975 Well, I said it. It's an opinion, and it's okay if we have different opinions
Damn, screw Jeff loeb. Nobu was such a highlight from season 1, and Weaver was definitely a cheap (or at least lazy) attempt to up the villain threat for defenders. The show already had access to so many more interesting characters.
Marvel has done an incredible job burying this story, because this is the first I've heard of it
The only problem of this season is the lack of connection between the two plots, it works for me because it divides the matt/Dardevil situation more, but i can uderstand where you're coming from
My problem is if I I wanna watch Daredevil again, I have no interest rewatching the Elektra and The Hand plot. While I'm anticipated to watch watch S1, S3 and The Punisher plotlines in S2
Currently watching season 3 i can say it's a fucking masterpiece, nothing in the mcu comes even close
I've never cared about The Hand in the comics. They were fine when Miller first introduced them, but I wouldn't have cared if I never saw them again. DD is at his best when he's fighting street level crime.
Hi, I have recommendations for next Darecember, would you be interested in doing video essays individually and specifically on Bullseye and Kingpin? (Both get their own video and overall analysis)
One of my biggest disappointments was how this season handled Elektra. The original version from the comics wasn't perfect by any means, but she was a tragic figure who at least had agency in her own story and was somewhat sympathetic. This version is based more off of the one from "man without fear" and in my opinion that was a huge mistake on the part of the writers. The show's version of Elektra just became a murderous sociopath who plays into the sexist archetype of "exotic temptress" which is especially problematic when you realize she is the only actor of color in a leading roll for the second season of the show. She also spends 90% of the season getting told what to do by either matt, stick and nobu and then doing exactly what they want. Perfect example is when the hand offer her leadership. She thinks about taking it and 5 seconds ago she was ready to murder stick in cold blood. Then matt grabs her and whispers "you don't have to do this!" and she goes "ok!" And helps matt and stick escape. In the show Elektra and Matt's relationship wasn't even the product of chance, Stick literally sent her to meet Matt and is therefore basically responsible for their entire romantic relationship. Also there is the really weird scene of matt and elektra having sex in the gym where Jack Murdock used to train. Who thought that was a good idea for a scene? It was so cheap and over the top. It was like someone had accidentally incorporated a scene from a smutty fan fiction written by a 13 year old boy into the show. Imagine a movie where batman takes catwoman to the hospital where his dad used to work and then has sex with her in an operating room. I have nothing against sex in media or showing sex in superhero media specifically but that scene was just plain tasteless. It was like something out of All Star batman and Robin. Once again, I'm not saying the original portrayal of elektra was perfect, it wasn't, but the show seemed to take the character's more problematic elements and play them up even more rather than working to address them.
This is damn good.
@@MattDraper glad you appreciated my thoughts. :) thanks for a great Darecember!
Liked Elektra but understand what your saying I suppose
Oh, look someone else who feels the same!
The Man Without Fear version of Elektra is the bane of my existence....
i adore the character but you're not wrong on a lot of this. i think in the hands of a weaker actress, elektra would have been way less impactful, and i think marvel didn't intend for her to be as complex as elodie portrays her.
19:21 The stupidest part of Punisher Season 2 was the fact that despite Frank saying he'd scar Billy's face so he'd always remember what Frank did to him just like Frank had to remember the murders of his family which Billy was partly responsible for they had Billy not remember betraying Frank just so Frank wouldn't uncover his and Rawlins's drug dealing. It was probably a badly done attempt to make the idea of Frank killing him seem more complicated like "Should he kill him when Billy doesn't even remember what he wants to kill him for?" Yes because even though Billy didn't remember doing it he knew Rawlins was planning to have the Castles killed but didn't tell Frank just to save his own ass.
I think the conflict in killing Billy was that he was horrified by what he learned he did, which surely shows redemption, and since he was not the same man that did those things to frank, maybe he didn’t deserve to die
@@jayef9960 When he still had his memory he didn't care that he'd gotten Frank's family killed even saying "Attachments are a weakness. I never had anybody."
@@jayef9960 The way they framed it in Season 2 was bad writing. The writers seemed to think Billy not remembering justified him selling out the Castles and meant Frank had to forgive him.
@@Xehanort10 true, I wish they had focused more on the pilgrim guy that would have been better
I don't care what anyone says Daredevil season 2 is my favorite season it's the one that feels the most like a comic book.
Agreed. I havent even read the comics. Its just solid ass television
S2 is like Dark Knight Rises. Many people say it has flaws, but still considered as great
I kinda wanna watch you look at the other Marvel shows now. You took some shots at Luke Cage and now I’m curious as to your opinions on Season 2 specifically. Season 2 is my favorite of the Marvel seasons (next to DD S3, of course), and I also really liked Jess Season 3.
You should do a video on the Denny Oneil daredevil issues 192-215 which are hard to find and aren’t available on marvel unlimited.
Any plans to do a video on the first season of the punisher?
The villains being 'straight evil' (the irish mob, biker gang, etc...) is important because it makes us think 'there's not redeeming them' but then you get the Biker who didnt beat up foggy but instead gave him helpful information, you see Grotto wanting to escape the criminal life, you see Turk leading the police to the hostages, etc...
I agree. That's one of my big disagreements with this video, I thought that aspect was done really well
@@officialmonarchmusic my biggest disagreement with this video was him crying racism because it had more screen time to people who committed the original sin of being *gasp* white.
@@pepperpeterpiperpickled9805 I mean, reducing screen time due to explicit race reasons is, in fact, racism. I would have thought it far fetched as well had Jeff Loeb not said so in very plain terms
@@officialmonarchmusic
TL;DR you have zero evidence this objectively incorrect statement was made
"said in very plain terms" mate, the only "evidence" is the hearsay of nobu's actor. no one else is corroborating this story (no one who was in the writers room, no other actors, etc..)
The baseless allegation is that Jeph Loeb told the writers’ room not to write for Nobu and Gao.
Nobu said Loeb’s reasoning was *“Nobody cares about Chinese people and Asian people. There were three previous Marvel movies a trilogy called Blade made where Wesley Snipes kills 200 Asians each movie, nobody gives a shit, so don’t write about Nobu and Gao”*
A) blade didnt kill asians in the blade series, let alone 'hundreds of them'. if he killed asians they were vampires and white vampires were x200 more than asian vamps.
B) they didnt "kneecap" nobu or gao's character. they were interesting because they were mysterious. nobu existed to serve as a force for DD to overcome, gao straight up was fanservice, she didnt need to be in Season 2 at all.
no one cares about these characters, no ones watching daredevil hoping to see nobu and Gao's character arc.
plus madam gao appears as a lead villain in iron fist, soooooooo
when someone cries 'racist' and stupid people blindly believe the condemnation, it weakens the word.
@@pepperpeterpiperpickled9805 Alright
6:06 This scene reminded me of the last level of the 2005 Punisher game where you have to escape Ryker's and kill Jigsaw.
I really like DD S2. The addition of Elektra was great to me
Elektra is actually what killed the season for me. The version they used was just a version if the "crazy exotic temptress" archetype which is pretty disgusting in general and the character doesn't make any meaningful choices of her own. Literally 90% of the season is just matt or stick or nobu going "you should be this!" And her going "ok!" Right up until someone else says something different and she decides that they are right instead. The original elektra from the comics has its problems but she makes her own choices throughout the entire original elektra saga and she is a much more tragic figure. The show stripped away the complexity and her sympathetic backstory in favor of making her just another crazy sexy psychopath and that's just sad. It's fun for a while but it quickly gets boring. Why is she is sexy psycho? Becaise shes a black sky. What is a black sky? Not even the writers know or care. For a show that was praised for writing complex characters and villains it's a real shame that they didnt apply those same skills to Elektea. Her death scene jn the show was also extremely underwhelming. They pretty much only did it because she died in the comics and they wanted to resurrect her in the defenders show.
S2 was about Mat failing to balance his superhero and professional as well as proper lives. Especially with the introduction of Elektra and The Punisher
If there was one good to say about Season 2, at least Matt kept his costume for a season.
It's a good costume!
@@MattDraper I only say that because GodzillaMendoza made a good point Marvel Netflix shows and how little they have the heroes wear their costumes in his Moon Knight video.
Great work, once again 👏 I like s2 even if I dislike the obvious flaws in it. However, as you said it allowed for the greatness of S3. Will we ever see anything as unique as this based on Marvel or DC characters?
Subbed gonna check out your videos soon mate!
The Hand are essentially every faceless CGI army from the movies
are you gonna do defenders or just straight to season 3
It just now clicked in my head...Matt was affected by the same goo that created the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles....the turtles fight the Foot, Matt fights the Hand.
This video really is a great objective look as to why this season didn’t work as a whole. You really nailed it with this one. I can distinctly remember finishing the 4th episode and turning to my friend and saying, “Wait. There’s more episodes. That felt like the end. What are they gonna talk about?” I’m particularly glad that you spoke about Peter Shinkoda and what he revealed about Loeb. When that came out it was so sickening and I cannot help but feel like no one really noticed or spoke about it. Glad he’s not getting any play anymore. Thanks for another great season of Darecember!
hey how come you havent done season 3?,that must be a next year goal
This was a great conclusion to Darecember. I still look forward to watching the Daredevil Netflix show, though not looking forward to Season 2 all that much. Your videos continue to be the highlights of a messed up year. Can’t wait to see what you have in store for 2021, have a good New Year.
Also, loved the part where you rightfully called out Jeph Loeb for the hateful bigot he is.
Thanks! I honestly couldn't talk about this season without addressing that.
I know we have to wait a year to hear your thoughts on Daredevil season 3, but can I at least know you’re brief thoughts on it? Is it better than season 1 for you? Where does Poindexter fall in your favorite Marvel Netflix villains?
“For her there would be no tomorrow… There was meat spilling out of her, red;in the place were her face to be.”
I think the best way to think about the Daredevil Netflix show is that Season 1 is a crime noir with the focus being on the many structures of the crime plaguing New York such as the drug dealing, subsidiary companies and fronts, and weapon dealing; Season 2 is a superhero story with the rival/antihero, the assassin love interest, and the ancient ninja organization; and Season 3 is a mixture of both, balancing elements from both sides such as a rival mirror image of the hero and Fisk's organized crime.
I’m really curious of your thoughts on season 3.
You'll find out ... next Darecember!
when u make about season 3 ?
As I like to say, "Daredevil season 2 is my favorite season of Arrow."
I kind of gave up on s3 after finishing s2 so guess I gotta give that a watch now
"Oh, Foggy's in this?"😂😂😂
The first 4 episodes of season 2 are stronger then anything else in the mcu
Great Video. Thanks for bringing some of the problems light. #wolphdawg
I feel like the first half should've focused on Frank and Matt and their conflicting ideologies, and the second half should have dropped hints of the Hand being out there behind the scenes. Again screw Jeph Loeb.
Please do an analysis on season 3!
It felt like the middle movie of the show, good but not the main story.
One problem I had with it that you didn't mention is that how purposeless the action was. You see, while the action choreography in Daredevil is really good, it's not particularly fun. All the fights in season 1 and 3 are memorable because they're always tense and driven by the plot.
- The season 1 long take shows just how strong Matt's determination is to save a little boy, how he fights off all those people at the end of an episode dedicated to showing the extent of the injuries he'd sustained. Which shows just how far he will go to do what he can to help.
- The season 3 long take is an 11 minute power-house of a scene, dedicated to showing how powerful Fisk is, even while in custody. Unlocking prison cells and tasking guards to kill him, willing to cause all this chaos just to kill one man. But it also is an integral scene to progressing the plot, since Matt learns how Fisk payed somebody to shank him to get him out of prison.
- The season 2 long take is there because the script needed Frank to escape, so they decided to make a badass scene where Daredevil fights off like 30 dudes with little effort down a flight of stairs. You could try to argue it shows how far Daredevil is willing to go to save one guy who got caught in the crossfire, or how Daredevil actually takes some pleasure in fighting, but that's not really why this scene is here.
And that's one of only two memorable fight scenes in season 2, because like over half of the fights in this season are just Daredevil and/or Elektra fighting a bunch of dudes dressed in black just because the show needs more action. And like I said, the fights in Daredevil aren't really fun to watch like other martial arts fight scenes, they work because of the context and drive off the plot or character. So it's just boring when I have to watch this generic fight scene in a dark alley or warehouse for 2 or 3 minutes before we can get back to the plot.
With Darecember almost over, do you plan on doing a video about Invincible by Robert Kirkman
episodes 1 through 4 are Daredevil at its best, is a shame the rest of the episodes (specially The Hand storyline) dragged the quality of the whole product.
I'm Gonna give DD S2 an 8.7/10. Yes, it has a few cons, with The Hand being a Hot Mess. But all of it gets overshadowed by the pros, which include every Single scene with The Punisher, The Stairwell Fight, The Conflict between Matt and Punisher, etc. Also, Elektra was kinda great to me, and I love DD's New Mask.
It's the best one. I just watched them through again and the first one is well messier than you remember..
now i hope you do season 3
9:05 um No, the Hand was a of Matt’s ability. They made it very clear that he couldn’t hear their heart beats, therefore he couldn’t see where they are or what they’re doing. And he had to rely on the swords movement, or near the end of the season, their breathing.
Glad you acknowledged what worked I say Daredevil is solid all seasons but do get your points
I didn’t know people didn’t enjoy season two as much as one and three but in my personal opinion each season raised in quality and overall topped the season before it.