Jan, your Amiga restoration videos are arguably some of the most realistic there are. You don't seem to hide much of the bad stuff, which make your repairs more realistic. Keep up the great work!
Some Amigas were built with single-wipe DIP sockets. These are the ones notoroious for failure - I normally suggest replacing them whenever I find them! The PLCC socket isn't bad, but often the chip can get well and truly stuck in there. I've had them where it's impossible to remove the Agnus without desoldering the socket, and breaking it away from the chip!
13:20 i doubt Commodore used a dishwasher, but the machines that clean boards after assembly work very much like a dishwasher internally, so thats probably where that saying came from :) The only thing about using a dishwasher would be you would have to ensure there is no softner salt in it, as that would very much corrode things!
Nice restoration Jan, just a suggestion, remove all chips on socket before washing a board, then use at least a hairdryer to remove most of remaining liquids.
That's will work, but the alcohol method is easier and safer. The advantage of using alcohol is it easy mixes with the water, and makes any remaining water evaporate more quickly. Alcohol also has less surface tension, which makes it spread out more easily and evaporate even more quickly. Alcohol also has the advantage of being non-conductive. It's safer because you could heat something up a little too hot with a hair dryer. With alcohol, there's really zero risk.
@@stevesether Just don't combine the alcohol and the hair dryer. Alcohol vapor is quite flammable, and the flames are very pale and hard to see. In school, setting a textbook on fire from several feet away was a common trick. (Don't worry, it only ever scorched the paper bag covers we were required to put on the books.)
Jan! Another excellent video... I recently bought ultrasonic cleaner and results are amazing. Fluid consists 4:1 of ultra distilled water for electronics: cleanser to electronics (IPA + anty rust additions) and has temperature 65C. 4 times sessions: top-to-bottom \ and / , bottom to top \ and / (/
Nice Amiga 500 restoration :) Mine seems to be the same way, keyboard is more yellowed than the case. Removed the battery from my 512kb RAM expansion already in the 2000's, when I noticed it had just started leaking, catched it in time so no damage was yet done, and it still works :)
You are doing a very nice job at the restoration. I have replaced all of my keyboard membranes on my A1200 and my two A500 with the new Hard keyboard membrane they cost more but the key contacts are copper not the graphite you find on the old ones.
Using water is quite common, even today. A relative worked at a medical equipment manufacturer. The boards they assembled were washed in water and simply air dried with compressed air. The only thing a person needs to spend time on is hidden areas where water can stay, like connectors, sockets, and the underside of BGA type packages. Just make sure it's dry and you're good to go.
Ich habe auch einige PCBs rumliegen, die mal gründlich gereinigt werden müssten aber ich trau mich nicht. Wie lange sollte man die PCBs nach dem Waschen trocknen lassen?
Ich lasse die PCBs gewöhnlich nach dem Spülen mit Alkohol ein paar Stunden aufrecht stehen, das reicht meistens. Wenn du sicher gehen willst, kannst du sie über Nacht oder einen ganzen Tag trocknen lassen. So lange kein Wasser mehr auf dem Board ist sondern nur noch Alkohol, gibt es aber eigentlich keine Probleme. Geschirrspüler auf niedrigster Stufe (und ohne Geschirrspülmittel) geht angeblich auch gut, habe ich aber mangels passendem Gerät noch nie probiert.
I think car wash is better than dish washing detergent as it is more pH neutral. Even though you rinse very well it might help over the long term, eg decades, and it is low cost. Great to see new life in old computers
You can actually buy carbon paint (mostly sold to repair remote controls that use similar carbon contacts) and apply that with a small brush. I've never used it myself but supposedly it works pretty well to renew the carbon layer.
Hi Sir, can I suggest to remove the solder from where the battery was and place a CR2032 holder, remove the resistor directly connected to the + and place a diode? To be different why not try plastic welding using your soldering iron the parts instead of the glue method? Ditch out the old floppy and place a nice gotek?
Once you start using a soldering tip to melt/cut/shape plastic, it is pretty much finished as a soldering implement. I have a worn out iron of uncertain temperature that I use for working plastic, because I'm not willing to sacrifice tips on my good iron. It also stinks something awful and burns the eyes. Even ventilation that is adequate for clearing fumes from soldering will barely put a dent in burning plastic stink.
@@mal2ksc yes, that would make the video more interesting, also the soldered plastic could be a more permanent and robust solution. I never damaged my soldering tip when setting to 150º C to melt slowly the plastic. I saw an extreme A2000 case restoration and even some small metal clips were used to give a good bond between the two parts. Sorry my english, it is not my native language
@@JorgeCarvalho_web_dev I will admit that I have never tried melting plastic with an iron that has temperature control. I might get better results that way, but I never wanted to sacrifice a good soldering tip. If this won't ruin the tip, I would be more willing to do it. I bet it still smells awful though.
I'm confused. Since there is actually NO acid in an _alkaline_ battery (opposite), then why did you call the stuff that leaked out "acid" at first? Why not just use the real term for that stuff?
@@JanBeta: Yeah, it's only correct with something like a lead-ACID battery (auto, boat, etc.). Why is it such a commonly mistaken term even though most batteries are NOT acidic? Why is that what caught on wrongfully instead of base/alkali, even though that's what most batteries are?
Another flood? Didn't you fix a load of Amiga's from flood damage about a year ago? BTW Jan, how many million screw keyboards must you struggle through before treating yourself to an electric screwdriver?
I cleaned some pretty nasty IBM Model M keycaps by leaving them soaking for a couple of hours in warm water with 4 or 5 denture cleaner tablets. No brushes involved.
@Jan Beta, Maybe you could put a simple waveform generator connected to small speakers under the sink. It may even possible that the magnets of the speakers will hold them to the steel sink. This might allow you to make a poor mans ultrasonic cleaner.
Great project as always Jan! Love your content. I hate to correct you on your English use because you’re really fluent. Saying “At first” is different than saying “First”. “At first” usually denotes that something’s status will change, usually to the opposite. E.g. “At first he seemed nice” (with the implication being that he wasn’t really nice and only appeared nice on first appearance). Apologies for the correction. Looking forward to your future projects!
Oh, thanks! I didn't know that at all but it makes sense! I'll try to change that in the future (it's gonna be hard because I got so used to saying it the wrong way)! :D
Now to top it off, On this Saved Amiga, make an Amiga music remix of the Jar's of Clay song, 'Flood' : ua-cam.com/video/EfAhpX_wIBk/v-deo.html Pure Poetry !
Jan, your Amiga restoration videos are arguably some of the most realistic there are. You don't seem to hide much of the bad stuff, which make your repairs more realistic. Keep up the great work!
Some Amigas were built with single-wipe DIP sockets. These are the ones notoroious for failure - I normally suggest replacing them whenever I find them!
The PLCC socket isn't bad, but often the chip can get well and truly stuck in there. I've had them where it's impossible to remove the Agnus without desoldering the socket, and breaking it away from the chip!
13:20 i doubt Commodore used a dishwasher, but the machines that clean boards after assembly work very much like a dishwasher internally, so thats probably where that saying came from :) The only thing about using a dishwasher would be you would have to ensure there is no softner salt in it, as that would very much corrode things!
Dieses Video verdient ein Like, noch bevor ich es angesehen habe.
Haha, danke! Ich hoffe, das Video war es dann auch wert. ;)
Nice job Jan, but before washing the main board I would remove the chips sitting in a socket.
Nice restoration Jan, just a suggestion, remove all chips on socket before washing a board, then use at least a hairdryer to remove most of remaining liquids.
That's will work, but the alcohol method is easier and safer. The advantage of using alcohol is it easy mixes with the water, and makes any remaining water evaporate more quickly. Alcohol also has less surface tension, which makes it spread out more easily and evaporate even more quickly. Alcohol also has the advantage of being non-conductive.
It's safer because you could heat something up a little too hot with a hair dryer. With alcohol, there's really zero risk.
@@stevesether Just don't combine the alcohol and the hair dryer. Alcohol vapor is quite flammable, and the flames are very pale and hard to see. In school, setting a textbook on fire from several feet away was a common trick. (Don't worry, it only ever scorched the paper bag covers we were required to put on the books.)
Thank you for this video! I just picked upp an late still sealed A500 with wide logo for like €50. Works fine but need recap and some retro brighting.
Great video young Peter, looking forward to part 2
4:50 celebrating finding the right screwdriver is such a wholesome thing ! :D
I am genuinely happy every single time! :D
Excellent progress on this restoration Jan. Looks like that keyboard was a lot of work!
Hi Jan, in order to protect the shower you might consider putting a towl inside before putting in sharp metal sheelding.
Yes, good idea!
You did such a great job cleaning motherboard it's shiny like my dishes Jan bye..
Thank you for restoring this amazing amiga!
So worth the effort! :D
Jan! Another excellent video... I recently bought ultrasonic cleaner and results are amazing. Fluid consists 4:1 of ultra distilled water for electronics: cleanser to electronics (IPA + anty rust additions) and has temperature 65C. 4 times sessions: top-to-bottom \ and / , bottom to top \ and / (/
The family can't shower because the shower is always full of computer parts. Good video
Nice Amiga 500 restoration :) Mine seems to be the same way, keyboard is more yellowed than the case. Removed the battery from my 512kb RAM expansion already in the 2000's, when I noticed it had just started leaking, catched it in time so no damage was yet done, and it still works :)
Nice! Yeah, the keycaps and the case parts often seem to be different plastic mixes and the discoloration is not the same. I've seen that a lot.
Nicely done Jan, looking good so far..
11:55 they are indeed 44256 DRAMs or compatible, which are 256KBitx4.. and the A500 needs 16 bit wide so 4 of them give you 512Kbytes :)
Nicely done!
You are doing a very nice job at the restoration. I have replaced all of my keyboard membranes on my A1200 and my two A500 with the new Hard keyboard membrane they cost more but the key contacts are copper not the graphite you find on the old ones.
Lovely work Jan! :)
Using water is quite common, even today. A relative worked at a medical equipment manufacturer. The boards they assembled were washed in water and simply air dried with compressed air. The only thing a person needs to spend time on is hidden areas where water can stay, like connectors, sockets, and the underside of BGA type packages. Just make sure it's dry and you're good to go.
Yes, I can imagine that. Never had any issues with using water for washing PCBs. :)
Good stuff...thanks Jan!
Jan: i don't see any remaining green spots
PCB: you're kidding right, i'm all green spots
Hey I have a amiga 500 but my monitor is no good how can I put a new monitor on it thank you
Corse brushes don't clean that well, ie, the bristles are too far apart, so I use a fine bristle paint brush.
Great stuff as always. Thanks Jan. 👍
Stai facendo un bel lavoro Jan,sei in gamba
Much smarter than average!
14:17 I just wonder. Maybe better idea will be pulling chips before washing?
It's definitely an option. I'm not sure if it gives you a better result in the end but maybe easier to clean the sockets better that way.
Jan is the man
Ich habe auch einige PCBs rumliegen, die mal gründlich gereinigt werden müssten aber ich trau mich nicht. Wie lange sollte man die PCBs nach dem Waschen trocknen lassen?
Ich lasse die PCBs gewöhnlich nach dem Spülen mit Alkohol ein paar Stunden aufrecht stehen, das reicht meistens. Wenn du sicher gehen willst, kannst du sie über Nacht oder einen ganzen Tag trocknen lassen. So lange kein Wasser mehr auf dem Board ist sondern nur noch Alkohol, gibt es aber eigentlich keine Probleme. Geschirrspüler auf niedrigster Stufe (und ohne Geschirrspülmittel) geht angeblich auch gut, habe ich aber mangels passendem Gerät noch nie probiert.
Oh no. The warranty seal is broken. Do you think Commodore might still honour it?
They are not even answering my calls!
I think car wash is better than dish washing detergent as it is more pH neutral. Even though you rinse very well it might help over the long term, eg decades, and it is low cost. Great to see new life in old computers
Is there anything that can be done to renew carbon pads at the keyboard membrane? Is there a product you would recommend?
Not really, but replacement membranes are available for the most common A500 versions (Mitsumi)
You can actually buy carbon paint (mostly sold to repair remote controls that use similar carbon contacts) and apply that with a small brush. I've never used it myself but supposedly it works pretty well to renew the carbon layer.
Thank you guys for your replies. Will have a look if I can find some proper carbon paint and test it.
Love your work!
Hi Sir, can I suggest to remove the solder from where the battery was and place a CR2032 holder, remove the resistor directly connected to the + and place a diode?
To be different why not try plastic welding using your soldering iron the parts instead of the glue method?
Ditch out the old floppy and place a nice gotek?
Once you start using a soldering tip to melt/cut/shape plastic, it is pretty much finished as a soldering implement. I have a worn out iron of uncertain temperature that I use for working plastic, because I'm not willing to sacrifice tips on my good iron.
It also stinks something awful and burns the eyes. Even ventilation that is adequate for clearing fumes from soldering will barely put a dent in burning plastic stink.
@@mal2ksc yes, that would make the video more interesting, also the soldered plastic could be a more permanent and robust solution. I never damaged my soldering tip when setting to 150º C to melt slowly the plastic. I saw an extreme A2000 case restoration and even some small metal clips were used to give a good bond between the two parts. Sorry my english, it is not my native language
@@JorgeCarvalho_web_dev I will admit that I have never tried melting plastic with an iron that has temperature control. I might get better results that way, but I never wanted to sacrifice a good soldering tip. If this won't ruin the tip, I would be more willing to do it. I bet it still smells awful though.
Using a little bit of acetone on the plastic as glue also works on ABS plastic, Adrian Black has used it a number of times on Commodore restorations.
White vinegar will neutralise battery corrosion, you can use it before the alcohol
He did use the vinegar. I guess you missed it.
I did just that!
Awesome
Ich empfehle einen fetten Pinsel. Die Bürste ist nicht gut. Außerdem macht ein Fön einen super Job beim trocknen des Boards.
I'm confused. Since there is actually NO acid in an _alkaline_ battery (opposite), then why did you call the stuff that leaked out "acid" at first? Why not just use the real term for that stuff?
I misspoke because "battery acid" is such a commonly used term (albeit wrong in most cases).
@@JanBeta: Yeah, it's only correct with something like a lead-ACID battery (auto, boat, etc.). Why is it such a commonly mistaken term even though most batteries are NOT acidic? Why is that what caught on wrongfully instead of base/alkali, even though that's what most batteries are?
Why do you call cotton buds "cuetips"?
Gran trabajo!, saludos👍✌
When i see a man in a shower room with black latex gloves on i think of "Viktor the cleaner"...
Classic! :D
Another flood? Didn't you fix a load of Amiga's from flood damage about a year ago? BTW Jan, how many million screw keyboards must you struggle through before treating yourself to an electric screwdriver?
Rewatch the first minute. :)
This Amiga came from the same flood, I'm explaining it in the introduction.
or just use deionised water. running the risk of rust if not dried properly.
I cleaned some pretty nasty IBM Model M keycaps by leaving them soaking for a couple of hours in warm water with 4 or 5 denture cleaner tablets.
No brushes involved.
Jan Sigma! 🍀👍
@Jan Beta, Maybe you could put a simple waveform generator connected to small speakers under the sink. It may even possible that the magnets of the speakers will hold them to the steel sink. This might allow you to make a poor mans ultrasonic cleaner.
I'm planning to try building something like that sometime. Should be easy enough. I won't use the sink probably but a separate container.
Those sockets were pure crap. Even back in the day I had to push the ICs back in to get the machine starting after it sat around for a couple of weeks
Doesn't look bad... yet. The shield is not even rotten.
It held up surprisingly well indeed!
Commodore used to use dishwashers instead of ultrasonic cleaners? Now that's cost cutting Commodore style 🤣
They did so for smaller batches of prototype boards at least. I think it was mentioned in Bil Herd‘s book.
@@JanBeta Unglaublich! Aber schon 🤣
Oh.. and its a dishwasher
The climate has gone berserk. Floody winters and dry summers😔 A lot of rivers run dry also over here. No good signs.
second!
Be honest Jan darling, were you the hot glue culprit?
Not this time! I swear! :D
"Copious amount *hic* of alcohol to rinse it"
Indeed! 🥂
Great project as always Jan! Love your content. I hate to correct you on your English use because you’re really fluent. Saying “At first” is different than saying “First”. “At first” usually denotes that something’s status will change, usually to the opposite. E.g. “At first he seemed nice” (with the implication being that he wasn’t really nice and only appeared nice on first appearance). Apologies for the correction. Looking forward to your future projects!
Oh, thanks! I didn't know that at all but it makes sense! I'll try to change that in the future (it's gonna be hard because I got so used to saying it the wrong way)! :D
People really should stop trying to drown computers... It's just not cricket old boy!
fourth!
Now to top it off, On this Saved Amiga, make an Amiga music remix of the Jar's of Clay song, 'Flood' : ua-cam.com/video/EfAhpX_wIBk/v-deo.html
Pure Poetry !
Keyboard is wrong
How so?
??
Not Qwerty
@@NemeZisUK German layout
It's the German layout, Y and Z are in different positions than the US layout. There's also umlauts ÄÖÜß. ;)