Saitama vs Popeye was an amazing episode and really means a lot to me with how well it utilized Saitama and Popeye. I’m very happy to see it get it’s well deserved love. And this was an amazing video. Massive props for all the hard work that went into this. Congrats to everyone.
Man, I didn't even realize I sat through a complete 3 hour video until it was over. This was amazing vid, you four and everyone else involved in this vid did a bang up job with this video. I said it before on Biff and Nem's DB S8 retrospective videos, but this is possibly my favorite DB season for multiple reasons. I won't go into too much detail but basically, I got into DB around the end of middle school/early of high school (I can't remember which). Then I kinda fell off it, even if I still kept up with seasons 5-7, the seasons that were around the timespan I can recall, rarely was I ever impressed with it. But this season, and finding the DB community like Biff and Nem, it was like I rediscovered DB all over again. This season made me realize how much I love verses. Not on the debate, mind you. But for the animation to the match ups to the analysises to the potential heartfelt and genuine love you can give to the characters you're representing. And being someone who kinda considers himself a weird mix of a millennial and a zoomer (2001, a technical zoomer but right inbetween when 90s cartoons and games were going out but still around and 2000s cartoons and games were coming in alongside them), I grew up on good cartoons and animations and games of old and new. Cartoons and animation and characters and movies which I grew deep attachment too and I feel like I subconsciously learned a lot for what quality animation and writing is of many spectrums. Of course, I still have a lot to learn. But watching this season, having a renewed spark of versus and learning a lot from Biff, Nem and now you guys, it really all came together for me. I know this show has its bad, and even downright awful moments. But when it has its highs, it shines so bright. So mu h so that I have no qualms calling it my favorite series on UA-cam. Seeing all these series and characters I love get the respect they derserve... its a feeling like no other. It's something sadly not many reactors I see understand. I get genuinely pissed seeing reactions to Death Battles where the reactors are completely bias, side with one character, get pissed when they loose, don't listen to the argument and give absolutely no credit or *valid* criticism where credit and valid critique is due. That's just blaitantly disrespecting art and I have 0 tolerance for it. But you guys? Biff and Nem too? Thank you guys. Thank you guys for adding to my rejuvenation of love for Verses and thank you Death Battle for making such an amazing season. I'm really hoping it's only up from here, because damn, what a fantastic season. ...now can we please have Bill Cypher vs Discord PLEASE I WANT IT SO BAD
I mean, Ethan is _kind of_ similar to Nathan, and I watched the whole thing (granted, in two sittings, but still), so... In all seriousness, this season review was pretty epic! It did a great job explaining the episodes and why they were ranked as high/low as they were, and the jokes landed for me. Great job guys, and I hope to see one for Season 9 -sorry not sorry, Red- .
A massive round of applause to you 4 and all the effort and thought you put into this video, easily the best review and really the best video talking about Death Battle in general, everything about it is phenomenally done and you all should feel very proud of yourselves
Small correction at 2:33:50, AntFish didn’t voice Macho-Man in Kool Aid-Man vs Macho-Man. Edit: It turns out I was right to begin with. Antfish did voice Randy Savage
Wow your ranking of this season was almost similar to mine: 1. Saitama vs Popeye (One Punch Man vs Thimble Theatre) 10/10 Soundtrack: Balderdash 10/10 2. Dio vs Alucard (JoJo Bizzare Adventures vs Hellsing) 10/10 Soundtrack: Hell Over Heaven 11/10 3. Goku Black Vs Reverse Flash (DBZ vs DC) 10/10 Soundtrack: Reverse Rose 10/10 4. Madara vs Aizen (Naruto Vs Bleach) 10/10 Soundtrack: Hallow Dreams 10/10 5. Yoda vs King Mickey (Star Wars Vs Kingdom Hearts) 10/10 Soundtrack: Heart of Light 10/10 6. Link vs Cloud 2 (Legend of Zelda vs Final Fantasy) 9/10 Soundtrack: Final Breath 10/10 7. Iron Fist Vs Po (Marvel vs Kung Fu Panda) 9/10 Soundtrack: Dragon and Dumplings 8/10 8. Heihachi Mishima vs Geese Howard (Tekken vs King of Fighters) 8/10 Soundtrack: Kings of Iron 8/10 9. Steven Universe vs Star Butterfly (Cartoon Network vs Disney) 7/10 Soundtrack: Stars of the Universe 7/10 10. Korra vs Storm (Avatar vs Marvel) 7/10 Soundtrack: Weather the Storm 6/10 11. Shadow vs Ryuko (Sonic Vs Kill La Kill) 6/10 Soundtrack: Chaos Unraveld 6/10 12. Batman Vs Iron Man 5/10 Soundtrack: Suit Yourself 6/10 13. Lex Luthor vs Doctor Doom 5/10 Soundtrack: Apex of Doom 4/10 14. Blake vs Mikasa (RWBY vs Attack On Titans) 3/10 Soundtrack: Thunder Shroud 10/10 15. Randy Savage vs Kool Aid Man 3/10 Soundtrack: Oh Yeah! 2/10 16. Akuma vs Shao Khan (Street Fighter vs Mortal Kombat) 1/10 Soundtrack: Satsui No Sekai 1/10
The sheer amount of things in this video I either made or caused makes me realize how much I forget the extent I’ve influenced this community. Great video btw it goes hard
I’ve sat through this several times now, I think I really like this video. Jokes aside, this really was an ambitious product from all of you, THIS is what I subscribe to people for, when they’re willing to go all out for their work. I think I’m definitely gonna be coming back to this video more and more, if you are able to do this again (big if) then I hope you’re able to do it. If this ends up being the only one you ever do, I understand given how much work you had to have put into this. Either way, with how this upcoming season is going right off the bat, I think we’re gonna be in for an amazing ninth season! Great work to everyone involved, Hyper and Nemesis for great editing, and of course Speedy, Hyper (again), Gumball and Red for their great commentary.
Yo this video was awesome! I loved every second of it and the editing was incredible! I hope you guys didn't overworked yourselves though (I'd kinda love if you made another one for future- or previous- seasons of DB!). 2:22:20 I also prefer GB VS RF slighty more than DIO VS Alucard! Also loved seeing Nemesis Bloodryche at the beginning end the end of your Madara VS Aizen review :D EDIT: And Biff Weed at 2:07:41 lmao
Man season 8 was such a breath of fresh air and a great anniversary season overall. Analysis are solid, the matchups are refreshing and these are probably some of the best fights in the series.
1. Love the dedication that all of you put into this video, enjoyed it thoroughly 2. My video made a cameo here, and on my favourite DB episode. I feel so damn honoured
@@MultiMario2306, it would be a stop posting about meme for Springtrap, which was a character the DB Reddit were sick of seeing and I decided to make a meme outta it
This season is a banger all around and one of the best they have done. I enjoyed every second listing to you guys count it down. Mad respect, I can only imagine how much of a pain this was to edit.
My ranking: 1. Saitama vs. Popeye 2. Dio vs. Alucard 3. Madara vs. Aizen 4. Goku Black vs. Reverse Flash 5. Shadow vs. Ryuko 6. Link vs. Cloud 7. Geese vs. Heihachi 8. Yoda vs. King Mickey 9. Po vs. Iron Fist 10. Steven Universe vs. Star Butterfly 11. Batman vs. Iron Man 12. Korra vs. Storm 13. Blake vs. Mikasa 14. Macho Man vs. Kool-Aid Man 15. Lex Luthor vs. Dr. Doom 16. Akuma vs. Shao Kahn
Honestly, despite it not being the best episode, Dio vs Alucard might be my absolute favorite. Everything comes together so well in a way that is rarely matched by other sprite battles
Here’s my Season 8 ranking: 16. Akuma vs Shao Khan 15. Korra vs Storm 14. Batman vs Iron Man 13. Link vs Cloud 12. Steven vs Star 11. Macho Man vs Kool-Aid Man 10. Saitama vs Popeye 9. Heihachi vs Geese 8. Lex Luthor vs Doctor Doom 7. Yoda vs King Mickey 6. DIO vs Alucard 5. Iron Fist vs Po 4. Goku Black vs Reverse Flash 3. Blake vs Mikasa 2. Shadow vs Ryuko 1. Madara vs Aizen
Fun story. I actually requested popeye vs saitama alot when I was a kid. I remember they had little links where viewers could send matchup ideas. I sent popeye vs saitama a few times. Never expected it. So when i saw that Next time on battle. I. POPPED OFF.
My list: 16. Macho man vs kool aid man. 15. Blake vs mikasa. 14. Steven vs star. 13. Po vs iron fist. 12. Batman vs iron man. 11. Heihachi vs geese. 10. Madara vs aizen. 9. Shadow vs ryuko. 8. Link vs cloud. 7. Lex vs doom. 6. Korra vs storm. 5. Yoda vs King mickey. 4. Saitama vs popeye. 3. Goku black vs reverse flash. 2. Akuma vs shao kahn (ask if you want my reasonings). 1. Dio vs alucard.
@@vaggos2003 assuming you mean akuma vs shao kahn. For starters it was my most wanted, for about 7 years now, both these characters mean the world to me so maybe I'm Character bias. In terms of actual episode quality, I see the issues, and objectively it's around my number 7ish. But the analysis is spot on, even if I wouldve liked them to go over kahns story more like how he's a manipulator who's faked his death before, his daughters etc. The conclusion gets straight to the point that mk is busted compared to sf, even if the cetrion speed feat is questionable. As for the fight, ok yeah the desert is lazy af. Just put a stadium in, it's not hard. But I honestly think it helps the characters pop more, the models and lighting have a really nice colour to them (kahn is ugly anyway so I don't get the complaints about his model). The choreography is badass and there's plenty of amazing shots like the back Breaker, kahn towering over akuma, kahn catching the raging demon etc etc. As for the lack of an audience, the track satsui no sekai really helps eliminate that problem due to the choir. As well as being a banger on its own. Shin akuma was a little forced, but I really don't mind the oni transformation at all, especially since aizen and shadow get transformations on par with it imo. Plus the whole your soul is mine exchange is s tier writing. The death is a little underwhelming I suppose but it still looks really badass to me with kahn telling akuma to get fucked.
Sitting through this whole video, man, what a ride. Glad to hear all these opinions. I did this with a group of friends on Discord, so I'm glad to see you guys did the same. I'd love to see you guys (and hopefully some more people, for even more variety and discussion) do another of these, I thoroughly enjoyed it. So here's my own ranking: Madara Uchiha VS Sōsuke Aizen DIO VS Alucard Yoda VS King Mickey Goku Black VS Reverse-Flash Saitama VS Popeye Link VS Cloud Strife Po VS Iron Fist Shadow the Hedgehog VS Ryūko Matoi Korra VS Storm Heihachi Mishima VS Geese Howard Batman VS Iron Man Lex Luthor VS Doctor Doom Steven Universe VS Star Butterfly Macho Man VS Kool-Aid Man Blake Belladonna VS Mikasa Ackerman Akuma VS Shao Kahn
Here’s My Ranking For Season 8 16 Blake VS Mikasa 15 Akuma VS Shao Kahn 14 Lex Luthor VS Doctor Doom 13 Shadow VS Ryuko 12 Steven Universe VS Star Butterfly 11 Batman VS Iron Man 10 Macho Man VS Kool Aid Man 9 Korra VS Storm 8 Heihachi VS Geese 7 Link VS Cloud 2 6 DIO VS Alucard 5 Goku Black VS Reverse-Flash 4 Madara VS Aizen 3 Yoda VS King Mickey 2 Iron Fist VS Po 1 Saitama VS Popeye
@Oswald Cobblepot Friend, if you watch DB for accuracy rather than entertainment, then I'm sorry to say that your making your own problems. Everyone knows that DB is not the most accurate vs show out there.
@Oswald Cobblepot No, I'm not going to debunk you, because apparently unlike you, I have better things to do with my time than whine on the internet about about fight between two fictional characters that I honestly don't care much about. I only care about the result if it contradicts the numbers they give in the video, which to my knowledge, Po vs Iron Fist does not. Newsflash buddy, whether the episode is correct or not, it will change absolutely nothing about your clearly pathetic life. Get over it.
#16 Blake vs Mikasa #15 Akuma vs Shao Kahn #14 Macho Man vs Kool-Aid Man #13 Lex Luthor vs Doctor Doom #12 Korra vs Storm #11 Shadow vs Ryuko #10 Steven Universe vs Star Butterfly #9 Heihachi vs Geese #8 Batman vs Iron Man #7 Madara vs Aizen #6 Link vs Cloud #5 Iron Fist vs Po #4 Dio vs Alucard #3 Saitama vs Popeye #2 Yoda vs King Mickey #1 Goku Black vs Reverse Flash This is my list
@@AdamBrown-pt9ct Well considering that Marmite has a slogan "you either love it or you hate it" and with the odd taste, a lot of people don't like it, but some do, basically an acquired taste
Okay, so i may have been late to the party, but Here's my ranking. It may be very controversial. Best to Worst 1. Saitama vs Popeye 2. Dio vs Alucard 3. Blake vs Mikasa 4. Madara vs Aizen 5. Korra vs Storm 6. Goku Black vs Reverse Flash 7. Heihachi vs Geese 8. Shadow vs Ryuko 9. Link vs Cloud 2021 10. Batman vs Iron Man 11. Steven Universe vs Star Butterfly 12. Yoda vs King Mickey 13. Lex Luthor vs Dr. Doom 14. Akuma vs Shao Kahn 15. Iron Fist vs Po 16. Macho Man vs Kool Aid Man
@@skizhanYT0317 Yeah, I... REALLY didn't like that episode. It was... really sub par (I'd even say it was bad, so much that I refuse to acknowledge it was an episode)
@@skizhanYT0317 No, I didn't put Blake vs Mikasa at the bronze medal just because of Thunder Shroud. I actually genuinely loved the whole episode. It smashed all of my expectations and it took me for a wild ride with that fight. The only thing I didn't like about Blake vs Mikasa was the farting joke.... But either way, I still give Blake vs Mikasa a 100% Metacritic score. Absolutely amazing episode that I would love to introduce to newer fans of DB.
@@MMINTELYT_MegamanIntellect ok ok good points but korra vs storm above goku black vs reverse flash ngl that seems kinda wrong but ik its your list so not blaming but above goku black vs reverse flash
on the Batman vs Tony ep, as someone who's least liked hero is Batman- I was hoping gor Batman to get the chair suit (the other one that is thought to be his most powerful) and use that to try and win the brain battle with Tony. But when that would fail, have Bats go into the Hellbat suit then to try and out-fight Tony, as that would be his greatest advantage against Tony. And use more of the tools they had in the into to stun Tony enough to swap into the Pheonix Buster suit, then the God Buster suit to have them both changing. And if you have Tony being thrown into another suit on screen and having change there, would allow Bats to change off screen. It would be quick enough to not slow down the pace to the level of Doom vs Lex, or much at all, and it would be a great excuse to get Bats into that "brute force" mode they had him in the fight.
Okay, I wish if you did something similar to the other seasons, I wanna put in my personal opinions on each episode of each season, along with the other stuff DB has Also I think Shadow vs. Ryuko, Korra vs. Storm and Blake vs. Mikasa should’ve been higher, around the middle of my ranking, and Lex vs. Doom & Batman vs Ironman is a little bit lower My Ranking 1. Goku Black vs. Reverse Flash (Dragon Ball vs. DC) 2. Dio Brando vs. Alucard (Jojo’s Bizarre Adventure vs. Hellsing) 3. Madara vs. Aizen (Naruto vs. Bleach) 4. Saitama vs. Popeye (One Punch Man vs. Toons) 5. Yoda vs. King Mickey (Star Wars vs. Kingdom Hearts) 6. Link vs. Cloud Strife 2 (Legend of Zelda vs. Final Fantasy) 7. Blake Belladonna vs. Mikasa Ackerman (RWBY vs. Attack on Titan) 8. Shadow vs. Ryuko Matoi (Sonic vs. Kill la Kill) 9. Iron Fist vs. Po (Marvel vs. DreamWorks) 10. Korra vs. Storm (Avatar vs. Marvel) 11. Heihachi vs. Geese (Tekken vs. Fatal Fury) 12. Steven Universe vs. Star Butterfly (Cartoon Network vs. Disney) 13. Batman vs. Ironman (DC vs. Marvel) 14. Lex Luthor vs. Doctor Doom (DC vs. Marvel) 15. Macho Man vs. Kool-Aid Man 16. Akuma vs. Shao Kahn (Street Fighter vs. Mortal Kombat)
40:13 bruh The connections between Shadow and Ryūko are that both are powerful anti-heroes that sport a black and red palette while also having similar backstories primarily based on vengeance over losing a close friend/parent (Maria Robotnik and Isshin Matoi, respectively) and are genetically half-alien as well as the biological offsprings of the main villains of their story (Black Doom and Ragyō Kiryūin, respectively). Both also receive increased powers via extraordinary sources (The Chaos Emeralds and The Life Fiber Senketsu respectively) and both are noted for having short tempers. They also have origins involved in a lab experiment (Shadow was created to be the ultimate lifeform by Gerald Robotnik, while Ryūko's mother attempted to fuse her with life fibers as an infant) and both initially start out as enemies to a blue colored rival with a similar powerset (Sonic the Hedgehog and Satsuki Kiryūin, respectively) before eventually teaming up with them. Additionally, both also have a super form involving them glowing a golden color (Super Shadow and Kisaragi, respectively). Furthermore, the climaxes of both their stories involve them falling from space after a final battle in the aforementioned golden super form.
Here my Ranking Season 8 1.Macho man vs Kool aid man 2 Steven Universe vs Star ButterFly 3.Madara Uchiha vs Sosuke Aizen 4.Saitama vs Popeye 5. Batman vs Iron man 6. Link vs Cloud(2021) 7.Yoda vs King Mickey 8. Korra vs Storm 9.Po vs Iron fist 10. DIO vs Alucard 11.Blake Belladonna vs Misaka Ackerman 12.Heihachi vs Geese 13. Lex Luthor vs Dr doom 14 Akuma vs Shao Kahn 15 .Goku Black vs reverse flash 16 Shadow vs Ryuko Matoi
This is me being a nitpicky punk but to sum up three episodes here's this. Steve I'm giving you a promtion. Macho Man vs Kool-Aid Man. Yep now you're fired. :( Link vs Cloud. 2021. FINALLY MY BOY CLOUD GETS A WIN AFTER GETTING SNUFFED OUT BACK IN SEASON 1!!! Saitama vs Popeye. I have several questions.
A lot of people are gonna obilterate me or kick me in the jiggles like Gumball did to Speedy, but it’s actually my 2nd Favorite Episode of the Whole Show
From my personal Bottom to Top 16: Blake- God I hated this episode with a passion. I think the main reason was how they made Blake so Bipolar as a character that I can see anyone who has never seen RWBY before look at this girl and question how she is one of the main four girls. Literally summarized as "Meh... I KILL YOU! Woo! I lost an arm and here's a titan to fight! Smily face! Incoming!" Between that and how Mikasa really had no answers to Blake's abilities, it was kind of clear how this was going to end... 15. Shao Khan- This was mainly for the animation. What was probably supposed to be one of the more hyped fights just felt like the most empty and underwhelming fights we got. That and Shao Khan being an idiot claiming "Flawless Victory!" when the moron doesn't take note of the giant gapping hole in his chest. That would be like Machamp claiming flawless victory in spite of taking burn damage and missing an arm... 14. Ironman- So besides the plot of the fight breaking apart the moment "Batman uses his base of operations as a weapon and destroys the thing he was supposed to be protecting and doing Tony's job for him," I really think this fight was done just so Batman can be in a league of his own in Death Battle: Being the only character who has died three times on this show. The fine was meh, but overall, it was kind of clear that Tony was getting his second win. 13. Storm- the last of the battles I found to be meh since it was kind of clear from just the announcement that Korra was going to get axed due to how broken Storm can be. Doesn't help that Storm is seemingly a better Avatar than Korra (and by extension, Aang). Thanks for the food for thought, DB. 12. Kool-Aid- Only reason why this joke DB is high up is that at least it was a clever way to doing an episode to celebrate 150 episodes and I will at least applude the first "stop motion" death battle for as much as that goes. Beyond that though, kind of obvious too that Kool-Aid was going to axe the Macho Man (although I will say the revive was nice). Other than that though... Writing didn't do it for me. 11. Shadow- Back when I thought DB was going to kill someone off three times over before Batman... The fight was ok, but with the "I'm the coolest," line at the end, it did make it feel like this was their way to just give Shadow a win somehow after Vegeta blasted him and Mewtwo spooned him. 10. Doom- From here, I will say the fights are those I enjoy. That said, this was the least of the fights I liked since I did love bringing Doom back to get his second win while giving Lex his second loss (but at that same point... Doom, you had unlimited power, called it marvelous and then said it was beneath you? At least your bipolar wasn't as glaring as God forsaken Blake...) 9. Heihachi- I liked the fight. Not really much else to say actually since it was just in the middle. Nothing more to say, but it was just a good ol' fight. Also you can't kill Geese without tossing him off a high place first. 8. Star- When I tried to remember all the fights, I actually forgot Star was in one. It was a fun fight and you can't get more chaotic than watermelons and unicorns charging at each other over a sand castle competition. Still... You can't help but feel bad for Steven since this was one of those times where the aggressor of the story did win and Steven got killed because the opponent was too hyper and chaotic (but still worth tossing it up higher than most). 7. Po- A shame Iron Fist had to fall, but at least the comedy was on point where. Po is someone who just loves Kung Fu and would have no issues in complimenting his opponent while he is getting punched and kicked. Overall, it felt like a nice tribute to the Kung Fu Panda. 6. Mickey- As a starter of "things to come" this was a good opening. Yeah, we could make the joke of how "Disney killed Star Wars," but really, I thought this was one of the few times where the death was actually well handled since Yoda doesn't hold any grudges against Mickey and just laughs before he disappears. Not too often you see the person who got killed actually compliment the opponent like that (or at least not before being dragged to hell or an actual mercy killing). 5. Cloud- I'm actually shocked this fight barely made Top 5 for me. I thought the first Link vs Cloud was fairly good for the time it came out (and it being the first 3D death battle), but I did like the direction they took this fight. That and many would argue it fixed the "Mistake" of the results and Cloud getting the win (although at the time, I didn't mind it since it did feel like the shield was almost like a perfect counter to Cloud's Buster Sword, but since then we've seen better examples of how defending enemies being overwhelmed). Overll, I'm happy. 4. Popeye- I feel like for one reason or another, realistic looking Popeye keeps it from going higher than this and also not dropping low. The comedy was lovely while showcasing how insane both of them are. And how can you disrespect Saitama being happy about being in an actual fight as opposed to his usual "One Punch" moments? I think that more than anything elevated this for me. 3. Madara- I don't feel like I have to explain since it is two final bosses tossing their literal arsenal at each other and it ending after a double fake out. I think because of that random slow down at the middle and how they had to abruptly start the fight cased it to just fall in third for me. 2) Reverse Flash- This fight was insane and amazing at the same time. Who doesn't love watching these two die several times over? Between that, having R. Flash wreck Black's shit before tossing him away and even a callback to Flash's first win (and makes that fight ironically better in the long-run, no pun intended), this was just a fight I found myself watching so many times over. But not as much as- 1) DIO- For many, this was the upset of the entire season. But really though, this told an amazing story. Yeah, DIO probably knew he was going to win, but not before you have the man being forced to respect Alucard between getting chewed on by his hound and Level Zero being unleashed and forcing DIO into a retreat until he is forced to go for a hail mary. By the time he absorbs Alucard's blood and shoots his eye lasers, you see just how driven he has become to win and that final exchange was just... perfect. Especially how after all the shit he went through, that was probably the most satisfying "WRYYY!" scream he ever yelled out.
Given that her late character basically devolves to "Yang is my bae", it's expected that they screw her up. Like I say, nobody understands the purpose of RWBY worse than Rooster Teeth does.
@@Redrunner613 Well tell him that's he should go directly to Nintendo because I didn't even notice that Or it's the fact that I haven't watched this Death Battle in way too long
Considering the complaints about the animation in Akuma vs Shao Kahn as well as the questionable representation of various characters (like Ryuko, Batman, Star Butterfly, ...), I'm still confused how Link vs Cloud got this high. Considering you are so passionate about specific characters, I'm really more than unhappy that one of the first things said is that there was "literally no personality to go through [for Link]" (1:29:50). Good thing "it's not like Cloud doesn't have a personality" right afterwards. I've watched many reviews of this episode, but this is the first time I decided to skip out on that segment. I do not get at all how people seem to like this episode so much in general. It's not the worst this season, but it left the most bitter taste in my mouth. Tiny bit of background on my end: I am a fan of the Zelda series and did not like the original Final Fantasy VII very much (the seriousness and comedy did not mesh well for me) until the first part of the remake was released and playing as him in Sm4sh. I would have preferred for Link to win, but neither was I expecting it, nor would I be disappointed about him losing anymore since I now can appreciate his opponent. I feel like the analysis was very bland; the only thing I remember is that it almost made me uninterested because of the occassional seemingly outlandish feats. Link's relativistic speeds from dodging a Beamos laser (when it works more with anticipation and his movement really not looking that fast at all) and Cloud surpassing light speed a thousand times over (when they always seem to ignore the difference between travelling and combat speed) feels almost as outlandish as Megaman.EXE exploring an entire universe in minutes (if they really were that fast, a lot of - if not all - adventures of them would have had barely any tension). In Link's case I'd have preferred something like his Flurry Rush or shield bashing lasers even if it's probably not as fast. The Supernova feat for Cloud is also really confusing since technically any character would survive it if they were in Cloud's universe. I've also heard they got some parts wrong like the description of which coloured materia does what. The editing was pretty good though. But onwards to the animation which I had high hopes for since Link's arsenal had a lot of potential for a varied and interesting fight. But the first thing that would get my attention in the fight would be the graphic design. The tunnel tried too hard looking like in the FFVII Remake, but over time I've started to appreciate it. However, my opinion has not changed on the characters which could have used better textures - just look at Cloud's hair which looks like it only has one colour! The eyes of Link in his first shot are just dark and barely visible. And why is the lighting so bad in the tunnel and even later on when it gets darker? Where's the contrast? I've heard the Fusion Sword should be stored in the motorbike, so destroying the bike and going for a title screen reference maybe wasn't the best idea there. During the Four Swords segment the characters and camera jump around too much between each cut, making it disorienting while also clearly wrong. (The Ocarina song also is an altered version of "Song of Storms", but I suppose they want to be fully independent with their music.) Then about the opportunities: It was great to see a motorcycle clash, even though I didn't expect a lot of it because that is clearly not Link's forte. I liked how well the four Links managed to work as a team and quite some arsenal was used for constant variety. I was not a fan how the time stops were used - or rather, what happened after that. I first thought Link was surprised the time stop didn't work which made him lose that clash. It's really hard to see because you have way too few frames to catch it, but supposedly Cloud was faster. The Stasis segment was also weird: Link uses Stasis on the bike as shown by a blue hue around it; this hue is at first missing when the arrow approaches the bike despite being continuously in Stasis. The ugly "explosion" afterwards should be more of an implosion. And I do think that the Ancient Arrows only damage on a direct hit, that "explosion" is just a visual thing. So this arrow would have been totally wasted. There were also some things I really expected to happen: Cloud being mainly a swordfighter would have been something that should have been exploited at least for a short moment with Magnesis. And since Link is now canonically able to rapid-fire his bow, he really should have done that only for Cloud to easily block it; would have been a neat reference to the original fight as well. And don't get me started on the part when Link transformed into the Fierce Deity. I mean, Cloud was portrayed in this fight to be the person who tried to keep up with Link thanks to his constant change of items and tactics. Do you remember what Fierce Deity Link achieved in this battle? Nothing. He's supposed to be a destructive force, but we don't get to see any of that. He wouldn't have needed to land a blow on Cloud, but I really would have hoped to see some destruction of e.g. the remains of the ruins, just to show how much the transformation has changed him. That Cloud easily one-shot through the Triforce (which I don't think was even used in that fight at all - unlike with Ganondorf!) is just insult to injury. I'm also not very happy how they characterised Link, especially after they did such a good job with Ganondorf. Cloud was mostly really well done, maybe excluding the Charlie Brown treatment he got for some reason after his bike explodes (let's see who understands that reference). Link takes fights seriously, so I'm disappointed when they decided to break this characterisation in some instances. One major thing for me is the red Link hugging his remote bomb - I have no idea where they got that from. And the worst is Link disrespecting the pottery. Yes, we all make fun of Link destroying it, just to get hearts and rupees, but I don't remember him ever being such an asshole about it. It's also more of a gameplay thing, not something that should characterise him. Would people have minded if Ratchet did actively destroy boxes in his fight against Jak? I mean his jump attack would be something more over-the-top and therefore more fitting to implement (it was even mentioned in his analysis that he "has a vendetta against crates"!), but I'd like to believe people would have been not happy if he just decided to interrupt the fight for that. It just feels like they completely made up a characterisation for this Link as if he was a bland slate in his series. It also didn't help that it felt like the result was pretty clear from the point we knew Link was a composite character. This led to people already complaining in advance if he were to win. So unless Death Battle would be fine with another contorversial episode, especially in this anniversary season, they'd have to let Cloud win, even if their research conclude Link as the victor. This fight actually feels like it is in some aspects even worse than the one from almost a decade ago. Yes, it hasn't aged that well and maybe some things were lingering on a bit too long, but for a first 3D fight I'm impressed how easy it was to understand what was going on - which unfortunately was not done as great in this rematch. I really would have expected this episode not to be worse in any aspect compared to its counterpart from a decade ago. That sadly wasn't the case and is what drags it down for me. Thanks for anyone who read through my comment. It was hard for me to write about it thanks to the general consensus being so positive on the episode and anywhere I talk about it, I always seem to land on deaf ears. Reactors claiming "that's bullshit" when Link gets relativistic speeds while Cloud's much higher calc gets an impressed "wow" instead. The times when sarcastic statements of "Link could beat Superman" were made - just because he won the fight. All that makes me feel like the Death Battle community, maybe even Death Battle itself, does not understand or maybe is even biased against Link since no one seems to care how he was represented and how flawed the episode was in general. Yes, I would have prefered if Link won, but it would have only softened the blow - until the very likely outrage in the community would negate that very quickly again... Tl;dr: The analysis made me question their philosophy about picking ridiculous feats again, there was no need for the characters to be so hard to see during the darker parts of the fight, bland or even missing textures, missed and mishandled opportunities, jarring cuts and the characterisation of Link make this episode for me possibly the hardest watch for this season, even more so since many people seem to either not understand Link or even appear to be biased against him. It all made this episode a huge disappointment for me even though there are definitly worse like Akuma vs Shao Kahn. Wait - wasn't that the same team, part of which did also Ganondorf vs Dracula (which I enjoyed a lot)? Their fights really seem to be only either hit or miss for me...
I get your complaints and criticism towards the episode, but I want to point out a few things. We did actually address some of the flaws in the animation for Link vs. Cloud, like how most of the effects were pretty basic and how the segment after the Four Links clash could be a bit hard on the eyes with all the different camera angles. But those issues are very monitor compared to Akuma vs Shao Kahn, which had very many flaws and problems in its animation compared to Link vs. Cloud, which we did mention. As for why characterization wasn’t as much of an issue for us compared to something like Star vs Steven or Korra vs Storm was simply because of the characters in question. Link frankly doesn’t have much personality in the Zelda Games. Sure he is heroic and pure of heart, but there isn’t too much to him compared to someone like Korra, and that’s because, well, he isn’t meant to be relatable to the player. He is more less just a link between him and said, player. So it’s much hard and less likely to misrepresent his character than someone with an established personality. Our problem with the how Korra, Star, and Ryuko were handled was that their personality was almost entirely based on them from an earlier point in their respective series, when they had more to them beyond that point. Also, despite our problems with handling them, it wasn't the only factor in why their episodes had their placement on our lists. Which I don't think is comparable to how Link was a handled for the reasons I already mentioned above. I don't see how the pot scene was a misrepresentation of Link since it's, like you said, more of them playing into the joke about him breaking pots constantly it, and it wasn't his entire character either in the fight and was just there as a funny moment to break the tension
@@MultiMario2306 Oh wow, a comment from a person from the video! Thanks for the response, it means a lot to me! About my animation complaints: I skipped that part of the video, but I guess I'll give it a watch eventually. But I'd likely have adressed it either way because all those issues just kept adding up. And as a result those flaws were worse than the sum of their parts. I'm still disappointed about your thoughts that Link has an almost neglegible characterisation, almost like a blank slate. Just because a character isn't as blunt with their emotions doesn't mean they don't have much personality. And especially not so little that you can bend it to your will and still claim "yeah, that's definitly Link!" Just because he rarely acts, but rather reacts, just because his reactions might be subtle, just because he often doesn't seem to have an arc (which is also the case for e.g. Goku which made quite a few Dragonball fans hate him as a character), does not mean that they can be simply ignored. Animation is an important tool to convey personality and there are many of them showing how he interacts with the world. If those minor actions are indeed not interesting enough, which I can understand to some extend, there are still many scenes where Link conveys a lot of emotions, especially in games like Wind Waker, Twilight Princess or Skyward Sword. Link has friends, enemies, family in those games and he has feelings about them. He is not merely the avatar for a player that just appeared as soon as you start the game. While I'm only somewhat fine with the mangas and they're not canon, the Four Swords manga did a much better job at "inventing" personalities for Link: We know that Link will always fight against any odds, so one personality is courageous. We know that Link is kind and passionate to the people he cares about, so one personality is just that - even if that makes him easily scared and therefor the worst fighter of the group. We know that Link can be really angry at any evildoer, so one personality is aggressive. We know that he is a good thinker when he solves puzzles and finds weakspots of enemies, so one personality is centered around analyzing. If the complaint for Star, Korra or Ryuko is that they were based on their beginnings I feel it is fair to complain that Link did not even get that treatment. Sure, Link didn't appear to have much of a personality on the NES, thanks to limitations, but artworks already did. And since Ocarina of Time (or the photos from Link's Awakening DX) that changed. The various MCs from the mainline Pokemon games, even some spin-offs have severly less personality because despite their good animations, they don't really interact with their world. And thanks to the lack of a voice and - especially recently - custiomisation it often supplements the point that they are not much more than a link between player and game. As for the pot scene: I still believe there are other characters better suited for it. And if I had seen more characterisation that makes me feel like that character in that fight is indeed Link, that joke might have not missed the mark for me. But like this, it just seems like it was mostly used to Cloud's benefit - at the detriment of Link. Death Battle is a good opportunity to get introduced to many new and interesting characters. Sure, Link is already pretty well known, but I can't really imagine many people watching this Death Battle and getting interested in him when he's portrayed as mostly just a gigantic weapon arsenal that likes to be disrespectful. And since he is such a famous character, it is especially disappointing that they represented him wrong in my opinion. Oh well, I hope season 9 manages to stay more consistent. That first fight set my expectations really high!
Yes, thanks for your response, but I'm still going to have to disagree with you. I want to start by saying that I do agree with that Link has a personality which I noted earlier, but again, I do not think he has enough of it to the point where Death Battle mischaracterized him Most of the reason Link's characterization wasn't a huge issue to us or me, at least, is because of two main factors. The first one is, as I've mentioned before, is that Link doesn't have much character to be with most of the time; you can boil his nature to just being the heroic knight in shining armor. Now while yes, games have shown him with friends and family, which implies that he has a relationship with them, none of the games show how close those relationships are to him or how he even interacts with them daily. I don't believe it's necessary to make everything explicit around a character to have them be a well-developed character. It does help them a lot in the long run, which I don't think Zelda games often do. There are exceptions, of course, but exploring his relationships isn't is almost rarely the focus of the games, which doesn't leave a significant impression on the player when it comes to Link and his character as a whole Miyamoto himself said he gave link his name because it was to symbolize the connection between the player and the main character, it might sound like it doesn't have much to with the topic at hand. Still, to me, it shows that Link is deliberately designed to be more of a character that the player can see themselves in. The second factor is because of that this is a Death Battle video and not a typical Zelda game with a story or plot. This is a show about finding out and researching who wins more times than not in a holds bar to the death, so because of this, characters will act differently from their actual counterparts. Link is shown to be quite courageous and strategic when he is in battle and not someone who lets his emotions get to him, so it would make sense that he have doesn't have much of a “personality” when fighting someone to the death as he is more focused on fighting and strategizing. Yes, there are some games where Link shows genuine emotes. In some of the games, you used examples but remember those aren't in the middle of a fight. I'm Twilight Princess, for example. He was shown a vision that scared him, but it was outside of the battlefield. Link always keeps his emotions mostly in check when in battle, which Death Battle conveyed nicely in the animation. Also, I wouldn't use Goku as the best example as of now since Super gave him some character like in the Goku Black Saga, which was quite refreshing, but that's beside the point. Regarding the Four Swords, while they tend to have different types of personalities from each other, I do think this was mainly due to trying to make them stand out from the more generic Link, and, again, mainstream games don't really elaborate on those aspects of them besides the non-canon manga and commercials. The way Link was handled wasn't anything like Ryuko, Star, and Korra simply because of how they were handled. Mainly because that they were based on one specific part of their story and were probably at their lowest personality-wise. Nobody wants to see a bossy Korra or an angry Ryuko. Those characters have much more fleshed out and clear personalities compared to Link, and we see how they met their friends without just it being pre-established with not too much elaboration. We see how they interact with them and talk to their friends and family daily, unlike Link. Take Ocarina of Time, for example. We know that Link is good friends with Saria and that she stands up for him, but we don't usually see much from Link’s side when it comes to his relationship with her because he is mostly just blank and doesn't say much. I'm not saying it's a terrible thing. You can still make a character great without having them talk, but again, compared to someone like Ryuko, Star, and Korra. They are much more developed throughout their franchises and are just on another tier when it comes to being a full-fledged main character as a whole. Do I think you can make an argument for Link being mishandled in animations and in fan media? Yes, but I don't think that was the case here or on the same level as Korra, Ryuko, and Star. As for the pot scene, I don't think one should look too much into it. It was playing into a meme and was there to break the tension for a bit it. It was a fun interaction between the two. I don't really see it how it benefited Cloud more than Link in any way. And as you said, most already know Link, so there’s a minimal chance that someone who hasn’t heard of Legend of Zelda at all clicked on that video. Had it been a much smaller franchise like Elfen Lied, then I would agree with you to an extent. The people who know about Zelda probably are already fans of the franchise or don't care about it, to begin with, and just wanna watch a Death Battle, video, so I don't think it could discourage any fans. If anything, I think it's the analysis portions of a Death Battle that would get people into the franchises they feature because of how they talk about lore and characters, which might get more people interested in the franchise, at least; that's what usually got me into some franchises. So overall: We do acknowledge that Link has a character, but his portrayal in the episode wasn't too important that it could knock the episode down for us in the ranking. Still, we do appreciate your feedback and your point of view. I didn’t have any characters that interested me matchup wise when they showed the teaser, but I’m still overall looking forward to S9 as I do wonder what matchups they have in store since they said they wanted to introduce more franchises into S9
@@MultiMario2306 On one hand I am happy this conversation got you interested to post not one, but two big responses, yet on the other hand I feel like it starts to drift a bit away from my complaint of "miss-characterisation" to "was it that important"? But I'll talk about both of those points. Characterisation: Yes, Link was originally just a "link" for the player when he was conceived. Since then several decades have passed and over a dozen of games have been released. That is more than enough for not only allowing Link to evolve, but literally having the need to do so. If Link was still a blank slate now, I'd wager he would not still be popular today. Back in Ocarina of Time his characterisation was still clumsy. In Wind Waker he sets out on the adventure to save his sister. In Twilight Princess he is very supportive of anyone, especially in his home town. In Skyward Sword he has an especially deep bond with Zelda. And simultaneously he knows when to let something go (like Ilia having temporarily amnesia, Zelda sealing herself away in front of his eyes and his bond with Groose when he was willing to change). A good story does not need a long prologue just to drive home how they think about their world and other people. And especially in games you probably rather want to play the game than watching a characters relations until everything about their bond is drilled into your head in excruciating detail. In that sense the pot scene does contradict his characterisation. Why you don't see him show as much emotion as other characters? He's altruistic, maybe even to a fault. He does not fight for himself, but for a better world, so he tries to keep his emotions in check. Addendum about Goku: Ignoring how divisive Super was in the first place, Goku did already have a character before that. If a person doesn't have a character arc, that still doesn't mean they don't have a character at all. I mean, both of us don't have much of an arc at the moment and we want to appear consistent, so anyone could question if we ourselves actually are a character if that was the case. Importance: Yes, I very much think that this is very important. A fight becomes much more interesting when characters play off not only each others skills, but also personality. It's also what makes characters more believable. I've watched a video from "New Frame Plus" that praised how the characters were animated in Overwatch to portray their personality - without dialogue and barely anything of them visible since you're in first person. That is something that is adding to the experience, not something many people wasted their time on making just because. A fight scene can be as cool as you want, but if you only care about the fight choreography, it will ultimately not be very memorable. And just because Link is a more famous gaming icon doesn't mean that everyone knows him. Even if you think that only the analysis should have the goal of making people interested by showing the lore and characters, Link's analysis was not about the character ("[He has] literally no personality to go through" which was the one opinion I quoted from the video and argued with from the very beginning) or much about the lore. And even if it's not canon: Fan creations can warp the perception of a character even if they are definitly not canon. The more popular something is, the more likely it is to happen. "Reploid REVO" decided to debunk popular myths about the Mega Man lore in an entire series (called Debunker Buster) just because they crept up more and more in the community. And - as everyone knows - debunking something takes way more work than setting this myth into the world in the first place. And not everyone wants to fact check in our fast-living society while prefarably sticking to the stuff they've at least heard about. I appreciate the time you took to read and respond to my comments and you're obviously free to respond to this one yet again, but please excuse me if I might not react anymore. It is just really difficult to uphold the argument for me when I feel like I'm alone with my point of view, even when the other side - in this case you - gives me a fair treatment. It's just that sitting here, taking a lot of time on formulating and writing these comments and yet being unable to make anyone reconsider their stance is disheartening. No, I neither expect nor want people to just say: "Wait, you're completely right and we should shame Death Battle for it now." Yes, I'd likely be much more disappointed if nobody cared about my thoughts or even reacted, well, less respectful. But it's just shocking to me that people don't think Link could have been portrayed better, especially since there is a large group of people within the Death Battle community that does have a bias against Link and only wanted this rematch so finally Cloud would win. For those that don't remember, Link vs Cloud back in season 1 was probably the most controversial episode before Goku vs Superman came out. I wonder how drastically the general opinions on those fights and their rematches would change if the results were reversed. So, yeah, this is my final comment I want to make in that regard. If you'd be interested to continue, I will not refuse, but I'd definitly prefer a more direct exchange if possible. I do have Discord for example and could join the place linked in the description. Other than that I am glad that you have so much fun with and passion for the show. And while that's not as much the case for me (partly because of their philosophy for scaling) and I rarely have a match-up I am really looking forward to, I usually have still a good time when watching the latest epsiode and there are many videos I love to revisit. Maybe these new franchises in season 9 will also have some neat surprises for me in store.
@@lozofspielereien8038 Hello, this will also probably be my final response, as it feels like we aren't going to change our minds. And at that point, I wouldn't say I’d like to continue the convo because, like you, it does become quite time-consuming writing these arguments. So regarding your argument about my thoughts about characterization: Yes, Link has evolved as a character over the years since his debut on the NES, and I do acknowledge that in my previous posts that he isn't just a blank page but l the reason why I brought up Miyamoto’s thought process of making Link is that it does support my argument for Link still not having much personality. It's very evident that they have purposely not given Link not much character over the years because they still want to have that bond between the player. And like I said earlier there, everything is most likely re-established when it comes to his relationships with his friends and family. You don't need to be explicit about a main character’s relationships to make it memorable or engaging. Still, it certainly helps one know a character and relate to them better in the long run. We don't have hours and hours upon dialogue spent talking about Link’s relationship, but what I think is needed is more interaction between him and his instead of basically being, “These are link's friends. We are barely going to elaborate on them, and Link hardly shows any emotion towards them in most games.” Also, I did address some of your examples in my previous posts. Still, the main point I was trying to make was that in a 1v1 scenario like with Cloud, it would make sense for Link not to demonstrate that much emotion in animation because it's something he also doesn't do much in his games either. When he is fighting, he is more focused on strategizing and doesn't show that much emotion. Something I think Death Battle captured well in the video. Link at different points uses different plans of attacks against Cloud. He sets him, with the help of his Clones, so that he falls into the bombs that Red Link had planted on the battlefield. When his doppelgangers were sucked into that black portal and Link was left with no sword again, he used the magic cape as a way to get past Cloud, distract him with the song of storms so that he wouldn't notice that he took back The Master Sword. It's moments like that that make me believe personally that they portrayed Link fairly in the animation. Link is a character who has some personality in the games but not much to the point that most would write a note about, which I think people tend to overlook because there isn't much there to begin with. He has his moments, sure, but I can't necessarily say it's something that makes him stand out like other video game characters due to his lack of debt. For the pot scene again, like I also mentioned earlier, it was mostly just there for fun. I don't think it's a scene that one should look at too much. It may sound like I'm contradicting myself. Still, DB has always had moments where they usually reference a meme or trait about a character in a fun and comedic way during the battle, like Shadow pulling out a gun or Shao Kahn being spammer with his special moves. These moments don't take away from the characters as they are small funny moments meant to be nods or be there to slow the episode’s pace down. They are usually brief, and Death Battle typically doesn't go overboard, with some exceptions. Goku’s character, from what I can recall, was always written to be kind of one-track-minded and selfish, according to Akira Toriyama, with Goku not caring for much besides fighting. This led him to be altered in Western dubs to be more sympathetic. Dragon Ball Super may be decisive to fans. Still, people can agree that seeing Goku having to show genuine anger after hearing that Zamasu killed his family was something that was kind of refreshing to some. Goku isn't a bad character and has demonstrated character on more than a few occasions, but he has mostly been one-track-minded when it comes to his goals, and it was an intentional decision. To start, I do find myself agreeing with your statement regarding that personality, skills, and playing off the opponent's skills are important when it comes to making an animation. Still, again, I do think this episode delivered on plenty But also, I do point out the context of the example used when comparing Death Battle and the Overwatch animation you were referencing. Overwatch always tries to have their animations convey and introduce you to the character’s personality and story events with Death Battle; the focus is on making an entering Fight animation that reflects their research. You are comparing two different types of beasts in a way. This may be a bit controversial, but when you make an animation for a show whose primary focus is about having two characters fight to the death, I don't think you should expect much when it comes to the personality aspect. You are comparing an animation that comes from a professional studio based with professional writers and storyboard artists to a semi-professional web show with a small animation team. I'm not saying that automatically clears Death Battle of any criticism, nor am I saying that you can’t show those crucial aspects in your animation just because you are a small studio. Still, I do think the comparison is unfair. Even then, I would argue that Link and Cloud’s personalities were captured well in the fight. I already talked about how Link was portrayed as pretty focused and strategic in the episode like he is in the games, and Cloud, from what I've heard from people, was also represented well in the animation. Also, remember that these two characters usually don't do much talking during battle, so it makes sense that you don't get them playing with each’s like more talkative characters like Sorra and Pit, for example. Because that's how it most likely goes down if they were to fight in canon, which I think Death Battle was aiming for. I can't entirely agree either that you need interaction that isn't strictly fighting in a fighting animation to make it memorable. For more story-focused animations, I would wholeheartedly agree. Still, it isn't mainly the focus with Death Battle animation, as they mainly focus on displaying the combatant's abilities and how they interact. However, character interactions are also something they do and focus on more often in recent the seasons lately. Regarding what people could think of Link after seeing this episode: Legend of Zelda is one of the most iconic video games of all time. There aren't many people who still haven't heard off. I would say that is a tiny minority of people at this point that also watches Death Battle to the end where I would hardly see it as an issue of something to be concerned about, but to give it the benefit of the doubt, let's talk about it. I think someone who has never heard of Link or the Zelda franchise going into this episode and getting the wrong impression is very, very unlikely for a couple of factors. 1. Like, I mentioned so many times, Link doesn't have much of a character to him and was handled reasonably as well. 2. The pot scene is very brief compared rest of the battle, so it's unlikely that someone takes away that part of the battle and assumes that's Link's entire personality. 3. The pre-analysis of Link, one of the first things in the video, started by describing Link as heroic and someone who fights evil off to his dying breath, so most people who have never seen or heard about Zelda would think that's a fitting description by looking at Link’s design. Yes, fan creations can wrap a character’s personality from their actual canon persona. As someone in multiple fandoms, that is quite a standard assurance, but I can't see that being the case here. Yes, they played into a meme, but if someone had never heard about Link or the Zelda franchise, they wouldn't even get it, let alone take anything away from it. And I don't think Death Battle themselves did it because they were uninformed about Link’s character, either. Side note: the quote you used from our video doesn't represent the thoughts of everyone's opinion on the episode or Link’s character. This is a ranking list, with a lot of us having very different views on things. My co-host mainly made a snarky comment on Link’s lack of character compared to Cloud. I feel sympathize with how you think about trying to uphold an argument when it feels like you can't get the other side to see your view after writing so much about something you are pretty passionate about. But at the same time, that's how things are, unfortunately, sometimes, neither side is going to see eye to eye, and at that point, it's just best to agree to disagree. But don't feel bad about it either it's nice to hear a different viewpoint from time to time, especially from someone who is very respectful about it. It is nice to have a genuine discussion that isn't just name-calling and insults because when you are in the versus community, that tends to become rarer and rarer nowadays. Now, I can't say that there is a stigma against Link because of the old Link vs. Cloud animation. Most people just thought the old episode was very outdated, research-wise and animation-wise. Some people, however, wanted a remake just because Cloud lost, so I can verify that but trust me, most people just wanted this matchup remade because they wanted to see a modern take on it. But yeah, as you said, it does get quite exhausting to write all these long comments after a while, so this is also probably going to be my final message as well. But yeah, it was fun talking about this; I have already contacted you on Discord, so we can probably speak there from now on.
It's coming along for sure, but we keep having to delay recordings cuz people are getting sick, or sidled with sore throat. I'd say about 3/5th's of it is recorded rn, not to speak of the editing going on as well.
They knew Saitama would likely lose any of his major MUs, so they went for one of the most painless ones from an audience perspective. That's my guess at least.
I mean, if you take Saitama as a serious character (which no one should do), then LOTS of characters obliterate him due to lack of feats on his end, and a lack of versatility of his abilities. As a joke character, yeah Popeye is pretty much his only competition
Don't listen to him we sniffed paint during the recording and hallucinated the segment into the video, our bad. We'll be sure to add it for real next time
Here’s my season 8 ranking 16. Lex vs Doom 15. Iron Fist vs Po 14. Akuma vs Shao Kahn 13. Macho Man vs Kool-Aid Man 12. Steven vs Star 11. Korra vs Storm 10. Saitama vs Popeye 9. Shadow vs Ryuko 8. Heihachi vs Geese 7. Yoda vs King Mickey 6. Batman vs Iron Man 5. Blake vs Mikasa 4. Goku Black vs Reverse Flash 3. Link vs Cloud 2 2. Madara vs Aizen 1. DIO vs Alucard
Yo I got to go before Nem in the credits, even though I just did one line and he edited 3 whole segments. Take the L, Aussie Afton
This was something I wanted to make for years and I put in so SO much time in this and I'm real happy with how this came out so I hope yall enjoy lol.
Dang this must have taken so much work. I really enjoyed the watch!
When will you realese wolf Vs incenroar
@@cosmicsmashball4299 yesterday
@@SmashBracket yeah but jeffy beats goku so ur opinion is invalid
Saitama vs Popeye was an amazing episode and really means a lot to me with how well it utilized Saitama and Popeye. I’m very happy to see it get it’s well deserved love. And this was an amazing video. Massive props for all the hard work that went into this. Congrats to everyone.
Man, I didn't even realize I sat through a complete 3 hour video until it was over. This was amazing vid, you four and everyone else involved in this vid did a bang up job with this video.
I said it before on Biff and Nem's DB S8 retrospective videos, but this is possibly my favorite DB season for multiple reasons. I won't go into too much detail but basically, I got into DB around the end of middle school/early of high school (I can't remember which). Then I kinda fell off it, even if I still kept up with seasons 5-7, the seasons that were around the timespan I can recall, rarely was I ever impressed with it. But this season, and finding the DB community like Biff and Nem, it was like I rediscovered DB all over again. This season made me realize how much I love verses. Not on the debate, mind you. But for the animation to the match ups to the analysises to the potential heartfelt and genuine love you can give to the characters you're representing. And being someone who kinda considers himself a weird mix of a millennial and a zoomer (2001, a technical zoomer but right inbetween when 90s cartoons and games were going out but still around and 2000s cartoons and games were coming in alongside them), I grew up on good cartoons and animations and games of old and new. Cartoons and animation and characters and movies which I grew deep attachment too and I feel like I subconsciously learned a lot for what quality animation and writing is of many spectrums. Of course, I still have a lot to learn. But watching this season, having a renewed spark of versus and learning a lot from Biff, Nem and now you guys, it really all came together for me.
I know this show has its bad, and even downright awful moments. But when it has its highs, it shines so bright. So mu h so that I have no qualms calling it my favorite series on UA-cam. Seeing all these series and characters I love get the respect they derserve... its a feeling like no other. It's something sadly not many reactors I see understand. I get genuinely pissed seeing reactions to Death Battles where the reactors are completely bias, side with one character, get pissed when they loose, don't listen to the argument and give absolutely no credit or *valid* criticism where credit and valid critique is due. That's just blaitantly disrespecting art and I have 0 tolerance for it. But you guys? Biff and Nem too? Thank you guys. Thank you guys for adding to my rejuvenation of love for Verses and thank you Death Battle for making such an amazing season. I'm really hoping it's only up from here, because damn, what a fantastic season.
...now can we please have Bill Cypher vs Discord PLEASE I WANT IT SO BAD
I mean, Ethan is _kind of_ similar to Nathan, and I watched the whole thing (granted, in two sittings, but still), so...
In all seriousness, this season review was pretty epic! It did a great job explaining the episodes and why they were ranked as high/low as they were, and the jokes landed for me. Great job guys, and I hope to see one for Season 9 -sorry not sorry, Red- .
A massive round of applause to you 4 and all the effort and thought you put into this video, easily the best review and really the best video talking about Death Battle in general, everything about it is phenomenally done and you all should feel very proud of yourselves
Small correction at 2:33:50, AntFish didn’t voice Macho-Man in Kool Aid-Man vs Macho-Man.
Edit: It turns out I was right to begin with. Antfish did voice Randy Savage
Wow your ranking of this season was almost similar to mine:
1. Saitama vs Popeye (One Punch Man vs Thimble Theatre) 10/10
Soundtrack: Balderdash 10/10
2. Dio vs Alucard (JoJo Bizzare Adventures vs Hellsing) 10/10
Soundtrack: Hell Over Heaven 11/10
3. Goku Black Vs Reverse Flash (DBZ vs DC) 10/10
Soundtrack: Reverse Rose 10/10
4. Madara vs Aizen (Naruto Vs Bleach) 10/10
Soundtrack: Hallow Dreams 10/10
5. Yoda vs King Mickey (Star Wars Vs Kingdom Hearts) 10/10
Soundtrack: Heart of Light 10/10
6. Link vs Cloud 2 (Legend of Zelda vs Final Fantasy) 9/10
Soundtrack: Final Breath 10/10
7. Iron Fist Vs Po (Marvel vs Kung Fu Panda) 9/10
Soundtrack: Dragon and Dumplings 8/10
8. Heihachi Mishima vs Geese Howard (Tekken vs King of Fighters) 8/10
Soundtrack: Kings of Iron 8/10
9. Steven Universe vs Star Butterfly (Cartoon Network vs Disney) 7/10
Soundtrack: Stars of the Universe 7/10
10. Korra vs Storm (Avatar vs Marvel) 7/10
Soundtrack: Weather the Storm 6/10
11. Shadow vs Ryuko (Sonic Vs Kill La Kill) 6/10
Soundtrack: Chaos Unraveld 6/10
12. Batman Vs Iron Man 5/10
Soundtrack: Suit Yourself 6/10
13. Lex Luthor vs Doctor Doom 5/10
Soundtrack: Apex of Doom 4/10
14. Blake vs Mikasa (RWBY vs Attack On Titans) 3/10
Soundtrack: Thunder Shroud 10/10
15. Randy Savage vs Kool Aid Man 3/10
Soundtrack: Oh Yeah! 2/10
16. Akuma vs Shao Khan (Street Fighter vs Mortal Kombat) 1/10
Soundtrack: Satsui No Sekai 1/10
Yeah he did tho?
The sheer amount of things in this video I either made or caused makes me realize how much I forget the extent I’ve influenced this community.
Great video btw it goes hard
I’ve sat through this several times now, I think I really like this video.
Jokes aside, this really was an ambitious product from all of you, THIS is what I subscribe to people for, when they’re willing to go all out for their work. I think I’m definitely gonna be coming back to this video more and more, if you are able to do this again (big if) then I hope you’re able to do it. If this ends up being the only one you ever do, I understand given how much work you had to have put into this. Either way, with how this upcoming season is going right off the bat, I think we’re gonna be in for an amazing ninth season! Great work to everyone involved, Hyper and Nemesis for great editing, and of course Speedy, Hyper (again), Gumball and Red for their great commentary.
Nem editing the Madara VS Aizen section is peak perfection.
Yo this video was awesome! I loved every second of it and the editing was incredible! I hope you guys didn't overworked yourselves though (I'd kinda love if you made another one for future- or previous- seasons of DB!).
2:22:20 I also prefer GB VS RF slighty more than DIO VS Alucard!
Also loved seeing Nemesis Bloodryche at the beginning end the end of your Madara VS Aizen review :D
EDIT: And Biff Weed at 2:07:41 lmao
at the beginning was technically Cyber, but the art was made for Nemesis' Madara VS Aizen Prediction video.
@Redrunner613 I *think* I meant to say Nemesis' head, when your placements for Madaraizen are shown ;)
Man season 8 was such a breath of fresh air and a great anniversary season overall. Analysis are solid, the matchups are refreshing and these are probably some of the best fights in the series.
Except Blake vs. Mikasa which might as well just be a commercial for RWBY Volume 9 with how one sided it is in Blake's favor.
1. Love the dedication that all of you put into this video, enjoyed it thoroughly
2. My video made a cameo here, and on my favourite DB episode. I feel so damn honoured
Based
Ohhh what video was it?
@@MultiMario2306, it would be a stop posting about meme for Springtrap, which was a character the DB Reddit were sick of seeing and I decided to make a meme outta it
This season is a banger all around and one of the best they have done. I enjoyed every second listing to you guys count it down. Mad respect, I can only imagine how much of a pain this was to edit.
The fast forwarding through Gumball's KH lore explaining was hilarious.
Something about Po saying "Fuck You!" has me dying
I see Biff isn’t the only one traumatized by a certain word thanks to Hal
Trust me, a lot of people are sick of that line. Me included.
Nice list and I like how you guys' characters have different expressions when talking. It gives them a lot of personality.
Honestly Batman vs Deadpool was an outstanding finale, really deserving of the number one spot.
My ranking:
1. Saitama vs. Popeye
2. Dio vs. Alucard
3. Madara vs. Aizen
4. Goku Black vs. Reverse Flash
5. Shadow vs. Ryuko
6. Link vs. Cloud
7. Geese vs. Heihachi
8. Yoda vs. King Mickey
9. Po vs. Iron Fist
10. Steven Universe vs. Star Butterfly
11. Batman vs. Iron Man
12. Korra vs. Storm
13. Blake vs. Mikasa
14. Macho Man vs. Kool-Aid Man
15. Lex Luthor vs. Dr. Doom
16. Akuma vs. Shao Kahn
Would love to see more of these!
Can’t believe I wasn’t credited for Goku VS Goku smh Redrunner
Jk very good video that was worth the 3 hours lol
Honestly, despite it not being the best episode, Dio vs Alucard might be my absolute favorite. Everything comes together so well in a way that is rarely matched by other sprite battles
Here’s my Season 8 ranking:
16. Akuma vs Shao Khan
15. Korra vs Storm
14. Batman vs Iron Man
13. Link vs Cloud
12. Steven vs Star
11. Macho Man vs Kool-Aid Man
10. Saitama vs Popeye
9. Heihachi vs Geese
8. Lex Luthor vs Doctor Doom
7. Yoda vs King Mickey
6. DIO vs Alucard
5. Iron Fist vs Po
4. Goku Black vs Reverse Flash
3. Blake vs Mikasa
2. Shadow vs Ryuko
1. Madara vs Aizen
Fun story. I actually requested popeye vs saitama alot when I was a kid. I remember they had little links where viewers could send matchup ideas. I sent popeye vs saitama a few times. Never expected it. So when i saw that Next time on battle. I. POPPED OFF.
My list:
16. Macho man vs kool aid man.
15. Blake vs mikasa.
14. Steven vs star.
13. Po vs iron fist.
12. Batman vs iron man.
11. Heihachi vs geese.
10. Madara vs aizen.
9. Shadow vs ryuko.
8. Link vs cloud.
7. Lex vs doom.
6. Korra vs storm.
5. Yoda vs King mickey.
4. Saitama vs popeye.
3. Goku black vs reverse flash.
2. Akuma vs shao kahn (ask if you want my reasonings).
1. Dio vs alucard.
I would be quite interested in hearing your reasoning. I always appreciate well-thought-out unpopular opinions.
@@vaggos2003 assuming you mean akuma vs shao kahn. For starters it was my most wanted, for about 7 years now, both these characters mean the world to me so maybe I'm Character bias.
In terms of actual episode quality, I see the issues, and objectively it's around my number 7ish. But the analysis is spot on, even if I wouldve liked them to go over kahns story more like how he's a manipulator who's faked his death before, his daughters etc. The conclusion gets straight to the point that mk is busted compared to sf, even if the cetrion speed feat is questionable.
As for the fight, ok yeah the desert is lazy af. Just put a stadium in, it's not hard. But I honestly think it helps the characters pop more, the models and lighting have a really nice colour to them (kahn is ugly anyway so I don't get the complaints about his model). The choreography is badass and there's plenty of amazing shots like the back Breaker, kahn towering over akuma, kahn catching the raging demon etc etc. As for the lack of an audience, the track satsui no sekai really helps eliminate that problem due to the choir. As well as being a banger on its own. Shin akuma was a little forced, but I really don't mind the oni transformation at all, especially since aizen and shadow get transformations on par with it imo. Plus the whole your soul is mine exchange is s tier writing. The death is a little underwhelming I suppose but it still looks really badass to me with kahn telling akuma to get fucked.
Sitting through this whole video, man, what a ride. Glad to hear all these opinions. I did this with a group of friends on Discord, so I'm glad to see you guys did the same. I'd love to see you guys (and hopefully some more people, for even more variety and discussion) do another of these, I thoroughly enjoyed it.
So here's my own ranking:
Madara Uchiha VS Sōsuke Aizen
DIO VS Alucard
Yoda VS King Mickey
Goku Black VS Reverse-Flash
Saitama VS Popeye
Link VS Cloud Strife
Po VS Iron Fist
Shadow the Hedgehog VS Ryūko Matoi
Korra VS Storm
Heihachi Mishima VS Geese Howard
Batman VS Iron Man
Lex Luthor VS Doctor Doom
Steven Universe VS Star Butterfly
Macho Man VS Kool-Aid Man
Blake Belladonna VS Mikasa Ackerman
Akuma VS Shao Kahn
6:48 24:21 2:14:49 2:22:58 1:57:47 13:41
Here’s My Ranking For Season 8
16 Blake VS Mikasa
15 Akuma VS Shao Kahn
14 Lex Luthor VS Doctor Doom
13 Shadow VS Ryuko
12 Steven Universe VS Star Butterfly
11 Batman VS Iron Man
10 Macho Man VS Kool Aid Man
9 Korra VS Storm
8 Heihachi VS Geese
7 Link VS Cloud 2
6 DIO VS Alucard
5 Goku Black VS Reverse-Flash
4 Madara VS Aizen
3 Yoda VS King Mickey
2 Iron Fist VS Po
1 Saitama VS Popeye
@Oswald Cobblepot liar
@Oswald Cobblepot Po beat iron fist my guy
@Oswald Cobblepot I never read marvel comics and it wasn't a debunk my guy stop being rude because your characters
@Oswald Cobblepot Friend, if you watch DB for accuracy rather than entertainment, then I'm sorry to say that your making your own problems. Everyone knows that DB is not the most accurate vs show out there.
@Oswald Cobblepot No, I'm not going to debunk you, because apparently unlike you, I have better things to do with my time than whine on the internet about about fight between two fictional characters that I honestly don't care much about. I only care about the result if it contradicts the numbers they give in the video, which to my knowledge, Po vs Iron Fist does not. Newsflash buddy, whether the episode is correct or not, it will change absolutely nothing about your clearly pathetic life. Get over it.
HOLY FUCK I KNEW SOMETHING WAS OFF ABOUT STAR (still liked the episode because it had star)
Great video
Y'all totally missed the chance for the joke of "One Poached Man" at the end of Saitama vs. Popeye.
I noticed this transition here 1:54:25 and it's god tier
A good long enjoyable watch.
Battle really is a great thing.
How EXTREMELY CRAY-CRAY Your choice for #1 is EXACTLY why it's MY Fave in Season 8 :D
#16 Blake vs Mikasa
#15 Akuma vs Shao Kahn
#14 Macho Man vs Kool-Aid Man
#13 Lex Luthor vs Doctor Doom
#12 Korra vs Storm
#11 Shadow vs Ryuko
#10 Steven Universe vs Star Butterfly
#9 Heihachi vs Geese
#8 Batman vs Iron Man
#7 Madara vs Aizen
#6 Link vs Cloud
#5 Iron Fist vs Po
#4 Dio vs Alucard
#3 Saitama vs Popeye
#2 Yoda vs King Mickey
#1 Goku Black vs Reverse Flash
This is my list
I appreciate that Speedy pointed out the mental truth that Thawne is a Yandere
Y’all should invite The Rappter
I personally enjoyed Blake VS Mikasa despite the amount of flak it had. I take this over Akuma VS Shao Kahn.
I think Korra vs Storm was added because, what's a Death Battle season without a massive stomp?
Lol
Heh, Blake VS Mikasa truly is the Marmite of Death Battle
Apart from that, DIO VS Alucard got some more love that makes me really happy
what do you mean by the marmite of death battle?
@@AdamBrown-pt9ct Well considering that Marmite has a slogan "you either love it or you hate it" and with the odd taste, a lot of people don't like it, but some do, basically an acquired taste
Really the the episodes only saving graces are the music and I guess Blake's analysis was fine
I'm not sorry for giving Hyper faith in Colex happening :)
Oh boy this is freaking intense my dudes! 😬
Okay, so i may have been late to the party, but Here's my ranking. It may be very controversial.
Best to Worst
1. Saitama vs Popeye
2. Dio vs Alucard
3. Blake vs Mikasa
4. Madara vs Aizen
5. Korra vs Storm
6. Goku Black vs Reverse Flash
7. Heihachi vs Geese
8. Shadow vs Ryuko
9. Link vs Cloud 2021
10. Batman vs Iron Man
11. Steven Universe vs Star Butterfly
12. Yoda vs King Mickey
13. Lex Luthor vs Dr. Doom
14. Akuma vs Shao Kahn
15. Iron Fist vs Po
16. Macho Man vs Kool Aid Man
BRO WHAT PO VS IRON FIST AT #15?!
@@skizhanYT0317 Yeah, I... REALLY didn't like that episode. It was... really sub par (I'd even say it was bad, so much that I refuse to acknowledge it was an episode)
@@MMINTELYT_MegamanIntellect one question dont tell me you put blake vs mikasa at 3 cuz of thunder shroud only
@@skizhanYT0317 No, I didn't put Blake vs Mikasa at the bronze medal just because of Thunder Shroud. I actually genuinely loved the whole episode. It smashed all of my expectations and it took me for a wild ride with that fight. The only thing I didn't like about Blake vs Mikasa was the farting joke....
But either way, I still give Blake vs Mikasa a 100% Metacritic score. Absolutely amazing episode that I would love to introduce to newer fans of DB.
@@MMINTELYT_MegamanIntellect ok ok good points but korra vs storm above goku black vs reverse flash ngl that seems kinda wrong but ik its your list so not blaming but above goku black vs reverse flash
I love akuma vs kahn and I will die on this hill. Can't wait to watch this later!
I don't love it personally but it is like a 6/10 for me, so it's nice to see someone who has a positive opinion on it
on the Batman vs Tony ep, as someone who's least liked hero is Batman- I was hoping gor Batman to get the chair suit (the other one that is thought to be his most powerful) and use that to try and win the brain battle with Tony. But when that would fail, have Bats go into the Hellbat suit then to try and out-fight Tony, as that would be his greatest advantage against Tony. And use more of the tools they had in the into to stun Tony enough to swap into the Pheonix Buster suit, then the God Buster suit to have them both changing. And if you have Tony being thrown into another suit on screen and having change there, would allow Bats to change off screen. It would be quick enough to not slow down the pace to the level of Doom vs Lex, or much at all, and it would be a great excuse to get Bats into that "brute force" mode they had him in the fight.
Reverse Black Vs Goku Black was the best episode of the season, change my mind
Dio vs Alucard
Hyper star man: they never do it for any other character.
Optimus prime: allow me to introduce myself
ignore me please if forgot to add in edward, beast and goliath.
Okay, I wish if you did something similar to the other seasons, I wanna put in my personal opinions on each episode of each season, along with the other stuff DB has
Also I think Shadow vs. Ryuko, Korra vs. Storm and Blake vs. Mikasa should’ve been higher, around the middle of my ranking, and Lex vs. Doom & Batman vs Ironman is a little bit lower
My Ranking
1. Goku Black vs. Reverse Flash (Dragon Ball vs. DC)
2. Dio Brando vs. Alucard (Jojo’s Bizarre Adventure vs. Hellsing)
3. Madara vs. Aizen (Naruto vs. Bleach)
4. Saitama vs. Popeye (One Punch Man vs. Toons)
5. Yoda vs. King Mickey (Star Wars vs. Kingdom Hearts)
6. Link vs. Cloud Strife 2 (Legend of Zelda vs. Final Fantasy)
7. Blake Belladonna vs. Mikasa Ackerman (RWBY vs. Attack on Titan)
8. Shadow vs. Ryuko Matoi (Sonic vs. Kill la Kill)
9. Iron Fist vs. Po (Marvel vs. DreamWorks)
10. Korra vs. Storm (Avatar vs. Marvel)
11. Heihachi vs. Geese (Tekken vs. Fatal Fury)
12. Steven Universe vs. Star Butterfly (Cartoon Network vs. Disney)
13. Batman vs. Ironman (DC vs. Marvel)
14. Lex Luthor vs. Doctor Doom (DC vs. Marvel)
15. Macho Man vs. Kool-Aid Man
16. Akuma vs. Shao Kahn (Street Fighter vs. Mortal Kombat)
40:13 bruh The connections between Shadow and Ryūko are that both are powerful anti-heroes that sport a black and red palette while also having similar backstories primarily based on vengeance over losing a close friend/parent (Maria Robotnik and Isshin Matoi, respectively) and are genetically half-alien as well as the biological offsprings of the main villains of their story (Black Doom and Ragyō Kiryūin, respectively). Both also receive increased powers via extraordinary sources (The Chaos Emeralds and The Life Fiber Senketsu respectively) and both are noted for having short tempers. They also have origins involved in a lab experiment (Shadow was created to be the ultimate lifeform by Gerald Robotnik, while Ryūko's mother attempted to fuse her with life fibers as an infant) and both initially start out as enemies to a blue colored rival with a similar powerset (Sonic the Hedgehog and Satsuki Kiryūin, respectively) before eventually teaming up with them. Additionally, both also have a super form involving them glowing a golden color (Super Shadow and Kisaragi, respectively). Furthermore, the climaxes of both their stories involve them falling from space after a final battle in the aforementioned golden super form.
Doesn't make the Match-Up less stupid :)
Also half those are stretches, but I'm not gonna bother arguing the point, it happened, I'm over it.
What we need is how he didn't lifted the whole Golden tree off the ground before beasts name is mentioned
Missed opportunity to say "Saitama hits Popeye super hard but Popeye returns with a 50% discount on knuckle sandwich."
On refrensce to Number 9, don't worry Red we can all have wrong opinions sometimes.
I find it funny how Gumball hates Speedy and killed him like at least 3 times
Would've been four if I had the chance >:)
@@gumballviking9102 You also made sure he doesn’t have kids
Did not expect this but I do hope they go over matchups they disagree with but I hope that doesn't affect the score
Here my Ranking Season 8
1.Macho man vs Kool aid man
2 Steven Universe vs Star ButterFly
3.Madara Uchiha vs Sosuke Aizen
4.Saitama vs Popeye
5. Batman vs Iron man
6. Link vs Cloud(2021)
7.Yoda vs King Mickey
8. Korra vs Storm
9.Po vs Iron fist
10. DIO vs Alucard
11.Blake Belladonna vs Misaka Ackerman
12.Heihachi vs Geese
13. Lex Luthor vs Dr doom
14 Akuma vs Shao Kahn
15 .Goku Black vs reverse flash
16 Shadow vs Ryuko Matoi
2:05:01- Did you guys not know that Sans was in DBX or did you guys just forgot?
Neither, it just wasn't relevant to the joke, although it *has* been proven wrong as of the most recent episode, lol.
This is me being a nitpicky punk but to sum up three episodes here's this.
Steve I'm giving you a promtion.
Macho Man vs Kool-Aid Man.
Yep now you're fired.
:(
Link vs Cloud. 2021.
FINALLY MY BOY CLOUD GETS A WIN AFTER GETTING SNUFFED OUT BACK IN SEASON 1!!!
Saitama vs Popeye.
I have several questions.
Disagree with some of the rankings, but I have the same top 2 and very bottom episode. Good video though
I agree with speedy here. 14:41
A lot of people are gonna obilterate me or kick me in the jiggles like Gumball did to Speedy, but it’s actually my 2nd Favorite Episode of the Whole Show
1:36:25 to 1:36:34
Oh that sound brings back memories
0:07 the music here is great wish I knew what the song is called
Will of the Drill by Brandon Yates
@@Redrunner613 ok thank you
1:46:23 AWW MAN I WANTED TO HEAR THAT!
Awesome!
From my personal Bottom to Top
16: Blake- God I hated this episode with a passion. I think the main reason was how they made Blake so Bipolar as a character that I can see anyone who has never seen RWBY before look at this girl and question how she is one of the main four girls. Literally summarized as "Meh... I KILL YOU! Woo! I lost an arm and here's a titan to fight! Smily face! Incoming!" Between that and how Mikasa really had no answers to Blake's abilities, it was kind of clear how this was going to end...
15. Shao Khan- This was mainly for the animation. What was probably supposed to be one of the more hyped fights just felt like the most empty and underwhelming fights we got. That and Shao Khan being an idiot claiming "Flawless Victory!" when the moron doesn't take note of the giant gapping hole in his chest. That would be like Machamp claiming flawless victory in spite of taking burn damage and missing an arm...
14. Ironman- So besides the plot of the fight breaking apart the moment "Batman uses his base of operations as a weapon and destroys the thing he was supposed to be protecting and doing Tony's job for him," I really think this fight was done just so Batman can be in a league of his own in Death Battle: Being the only character who has died three times on this show. The fine was meh, but overall, it was kind of clear that Tony was getting his second win.
13. Storm- the last of the battles I found to be meh since it was kind of clear from just the announcement that Korra was going to get axed due to how broken Storm can be. Doesn't help that Storm is seemingly a better Avatar than Korra (and by extension, Aang). Thanks for the food for thought, DB.
12. Kool-Aid- Only reason why this joke DB is high up is that at least it was a clever way to doing an episode to celebrate 150 episodes and I will at least applude the first "stop motion" death battle for as much as that goes. Beyond that though, kind of obvious too that Kool-Aid was going to axe the Macho Man (although I will say the revive was nice). Other than that though... Writing didn't do it for me.
11. Shadow- Back when I thought DB was going to kill someone off three times over before Batman... The fight was ok, but with the "I'm the coolest," line at the end, it did make it feel like this was their way to just give Shadow a win somehow after Vegeta blasted him and Mewtwo spooned him.
10. Doom- From here, I will say the fights are those I enjoy. That said, this was the least of the fights I liked since I did love bringing Doom back to get his second win while giving Lex his second loss (but at that same point... Doom, you had unlimited power, called it marvelous and then said it was beneath you? At least your bipolar wasn't as glaring as God forsaken Blake...)
9. Heihachi- I liked the fight. Not really much else to say actually since it was just in the middle. Nothing more to say, but it was just a good ol' fight. Also you can't kill Geese without tossing him off a high place first.
8. Star- When I tried to remember all the fights, I actually forgot Star was in one. It was a fun fight and you can't get more chaotic than watermelons and unicorns charging at each other over a sand castle competition. Still... You can't help but feel bad for Steven since this was one of those times where the aggressor of the story did win and Steven got killed because the opponent was too hyper and chaotic (but still worth tossing it up higher than most).
7. Po- A shame Iron Fist had to fall, but at least the comedy was on point where. Po is someone who just loves Kung Fu and would have no issues in complimenting his opponent while he is getting punched and kicked. Overall, it felt like a nice tribute to the Kung Fu Panda.
6. Mickey- As a starter of "things to come" this was a good opening. Yeah, we could make the joke of how "Disney killed Star Wars," but really, I thought this was one of the few times where the death was actually well handled since Yoda doesn't hold any grudges against Mickey and just laughs before he disappears. Not too often you see the person who got killed actually compliment the opponent like that (or at least not before being dragged to hell or an actual mercy killing).
5. Cloud- I'm actually shocked this fight barely made Top 5 for me. I thought the first Link vs Cloud was fairly good for the time it came out (and it being the first 3D death battle), but I did like the direction they took this fight. That and many would argue it fixed the "Mistake" of the results and Cloud getting the win (although at the time, I didn't mind it since it did feel like the shield was almost like a perfect counter to Cloud's Buster Sword, but since then we've seen better examples of how defending enemies being overwhelmed). Overll, I'm happy.
4. Popeye- I feel like for one reason or another, realistic looking Popeye keeps it from going higher than this and also not dropping low. The comedy was lovely while showcasing how insane both of them are. And how can you disrespect Saitama being happy about being in an actual fight as opposed to his usual "One Punch" moments? I think that more than anything elevated this for me.
3. Madara- I don't feel like I have to explain since it is two final bosses tossing their literal arsenal at each other and it ending after a double fake out. I think because of that random slow down at the middle and how they had to abruptly start the fight cased it to just fall in third for me.
2) Reverse Flash- This fight was insane and amazing at the same time. Who doesn't love watching these two die several times over? Between that, having R. Flash wreck Black's shit before tossing him away and even a callback to Flash's first win (and makes that fight ironically better in the long-run, no pun intended), this was just a fight I found myself watching so many times over. But not as much as-
1) DIO- For many, this was the upset of the entire season. But really though, this told an amazing story. Yeah, DIO probably knew he was going to win, but not before you have the man being forced to respect Alucard between getting chewed on by his hound and Level Zero being unleashed and forcing DIO into a retreat until he is forced to go for a hail mary. By the time he absorbs Alucard's blood and shoots his eye lasers, you see just how driven he has become to win and that final exchange was just... perfect. Especially how after all the shit he went through, that was probably the most satisfying "WRYYY!" scream he ever yelled out.
Given that her late character basically devolves to "Yang is my bae", it's expected that they screw her up. Like I say, nobody understands the purpose of RWBY worse than Rooster Teeth does.
18:46 Ha ha! I'm vindicated for not following them on Twitter!
2:03:39 Oyasumi Oyasumi
Hey does anyone know where the og source is for the "you thought you were safe calling me the z-word on Discord?"
It's not a publicly available video, it's something Gumball made himself as a meme one day. And yes, he does dub over all of Link's scenes.
@@Redrunner613 Well tell him that's he should go directly to Nintendo because I didn't even notice that
Or it's the fact that I haven't watched this Death Battle in way too long
2:58:05
yes that's me i'm that guy hello
Considering the complaints about the animation in Akuma vs Shao Kahn as well as the questionable representation of various characters (like Ryuko, Batman, Star Butterfly, ...), I'm still confused how Link vs Cloud got this high. Considering you are so passionate about specific characters, I'm really more than unhappy that one of the first things said is that there was "literally no personality to go through [for Link]" (1:29:50). Good thing "it's not like Cloud doesn't have a personality" right afterwards. I've watched many reviews of this episode, but this is the first time I decided to skip out on that segment.
I do not get at all how people seem to like this episode so much in general. It's not the worst this season, but it left the most bitter taste in my mouth. Tiny bit of background on my end: I am a fan of the Zelda series and did not like the original Final Fantasy VII very much (the seriousness and comedy did not mesh well for me) until the first part of the remake was released and playing as him in Sm4sh. I would have preferred for Link to win, but neither was I expecting it, nor would I be disappointed about him losing anymore since I now can appreciate his opponent.
I feel like the analysis was very bland; the only thing I remember is that it almost made me uninterested because of the occassional seemingly outlandish feats. Link's relativistic speeds from dodging a Beamos laser (when it works more with anticipation and his movement really not looking that fast at all) and Cloud surpassing light speed a thousand times over (when they always seem to ignore the difference between travelling and combat speed) feels almost as outlandish as Megaman.EXE exploring an entire universe in minutes (if they really were that fast, a lot of - if not all - adventures of them would have had barely any tension). In Link's case I'd have preferred something like his Flurry Rush or shield bashing lasers even if it's probably not as fast. The Supernova feat for Cloud is also really confusing since technically any character would survive it if they were in Cloud's universe. I've also heard they got some parts wrong like the description of which coloured materia does what. The editing was pretty good though. But onwards to the animation which I had high hopes for since Link's arsenal had a lot of potential for a varied and interesting fight.
But the first thing that would get my attention in the fight would be the graphic design. The tunnel tried too hard looking like in the FFVII Remake, but over time I've started to appreciate it. However, my opinion has not changed on the characters which could have used better textures - just look at Cloud's hair which looks like it only has one colour! The eyes of Link in his first shot are just dark and barely visible. And why is the lighting so bad in the tunnel and even later on when it gets darker? Where's the contrast? I've heard the Fusion Sword should be stored in the motorbike, so destroying the bike and going for a title screen reference maybe wasn't the best idea there. During the Four Swords segment the characters and camera jump around too much between each cut, making it disorienting while also clearly wrong. (The Ocarina song also is an altered version of "Song of Storms", but I suppose they want to be fully independent with their music.)
Then about the opportunities: It was great to see a motorcycle clash, even though I didn't expect a lot of it because that is clearly not Link's forte. I liked how well the four Links managed to work as a team and quite some arsenal was used for constant variety. I was not a fan how the time stops were used - or rather, what happened after that. I first thought Link was surprised the time stop didn't work which made him lose that clash. It's really hard to see because you have way too few frames to catch it, but supposedly Cloud was faster.
The Stasis segment was also weird: Link uses Stasis on the bike as shown by a blue hue around it; this hue is at first missing when the arrow approaches the bike despite being continuously in Stasis. The ugly "explosion" afterwards should be more of an implosion. And I do think that the Ancient Arrows only damage on a direct hit, that "explosion" is just a visual thing. So this arrow would have been totally wasted.
There were also some things I really expected to happen: Cloud being mainly a swordfighter would have been something that should have been exploited at least for a short moment with Magnesis. And since Link is now canonically able to rapid-fire his bow, he really should have done that only for Cloud to easily block it; would have been a neat reference to the original fight as well.
And don't get me started on the part when Link transformed into the Fierce Deity. I mean, Cloud was portrayed in this fight to be the person who tried to keep up with Link thanks to his constant change of items and tactics. Do you remember what Fierce Deity Link achieved in this battle? Nothing. He's supposed to be a destructive force, but we don't get to see any of that. He wouldn't have needed to land a blow on Cloud, but I really would have hoped to see some destruction of e.g. the remains of the ruins, just to show how much the transformation has changed him. That Cloud easily one-shot through the Triforce (which I don't think was even used in that fight at all - unlike with Ganondorf!) is just insult to injury.
I'm also not very happy how they characterised Link, especially after they did such a good job with Ganondorf. Cloud was mostly really well done, maybe excluding the Charlie Brown treatment he got for some reason after his bike explodes (let's see who understands that reference). Link takes fights seriously, so I'm disappointed when they decided to break this characterisation in some instances.
One major thing for me is the red Link hugging his remote bomb - I have no idea where they got that from. And the worst is Link disrespecting the pottery. Yes, we all make fun of Link destroying it, just to get hearts and rupees, but I don't remember him ever being such an asshole about it. It's also more of a gameplay thing, not something that should characterise him. Would people have minded if Ratchet did actively destroy boxes in his fight against Jak? I mean his jump attack would be something more over-the-top and therefore more fitting to implement (it was even mentioned in his analysis that he "has a vendetta against crates"!), but I'd like to believe people would have been not happy if he just decided to interrupt the fight for that. It just feels like they completely made up a characterisation for this Link as if he was a bland slate in his series.
It also didn't help that it felt like the result was pretty clear from the point we knew Link was a composite character. This led to people already complaining in advance if he were to win. So unless Death Battle would be fine with another contorversial episode, especially in this anniversary season, they'd have to let Cloud win, even if their research conclude Link as the victor.
This fight actually feels like it is in some aspects even worse than the one from almost a decade ago. Yes, it hasn't aged that well and maybe some things were lingering on a bit too long, but for a first 3D fight I'm impressed how easy it was to understand what was going on - which unfortunately was not done as great in this rematch. I really would have expected this episode not to be worse in any aspect compared to its counterpart from a decade ago. That sadly wasn't the case and is what drags it down for me.
Thanks for anyone who read through my comment. It was hard for me to write about it thanks to the general consensus being so positive on the episode and anywhere I talk about it, I always seem to land on deaf ears. Reactors claiming "that's bullshit" when Link gets relativistic speeds while Cloud's much higher calc gets an impressed "wow" instead. The times when sarcastic statements of "Link could beat Superman" were made - just because he won the fight. All that makes me feel like the Death Battle community, maybe even Death Battle itself, does not understand or maybe is even biased against Link since no one seems to care how he was represented and how flawed the episode was in general. Yes, I would have prefered if Link won, but it would have only softened the blow - until the very likely outrage in the community would negate that very quickly again...
Tl;dr: The analysis made me question their philosophy about picking ridiculous feats again, there was no need for the characters to be so hard to see during the darker parts of the fight, bland or even missing textures, missed and mishandled opportunities, jarring cuts and the characterisation of Link make this episode for me possibly the hardest watch for this season, even more so since many people seem to either not understand Link or even appear to be biased against him. It all made this episode a huge disappointment for me even though there are definitly worse like Akuma vs Shao Kahn. Wait - wasn't that the same team, part of which did also Ganondorf vs Dracula (which I enjoyed a lot)? Their fights really seem to be only either hit or miss for me...
I get your complaints and criticism towards the episode, but I want to point out a few things.
We did actually address some of the flaws in the animation for Link vs. Cloud, like how most of the effects were pretty basic and how the segment after the Four Links clash could be a bit hard on the eyes with all the different camera angles. But those issues are very monitor compared to Akuma vs Shao Kahn, which had very many flaws and problems in its animation compared to Link vs. Cloud, which we did mention.
As for why characterization wasn’t as much of an issue for us compared to something like Star vs Steven or Korra vs Storm was simply because of the characters in question. Link frankly doesn’t have much personality in the Zelda Games. Sure he is heroic and pure of heart, but there isn’t too much to him compared to someone like Korra, and that’s because, well, he isn’t meant to be relatable to the player. He is more less just a link between him and said, player. So it’s much hard and less likely to misrepresent his character than someone with an established personality.
Our problem with the how Korra, Star, and Ryuko were handled was that their personality was almost entirely based on them from an earlier point in their respective series, when they had more to them beyond that point. Also, despite our problems with handling them, it wasn't the only factor in why their episodes had their placement on our lists. Which I don't think is comparable to how Link was a handled for the reasons I already mentioned above. I don't see how the pot scene was a misrepresentation of Link since it's, like you said, more of them playing into the joke about him breaking pots constantly it, and it wasn't his entire character either in the fight and was just there as a funny moment to break the tension
@@MultiMario2306 Oh wow, a comment from a person from the video! Thanks for the response, it means a lot to me! About my animation complaints: I skipped that part of the video, but I guess I'll give it a watch eventually. But I'd likely have adressed it either way because all those issues just kept adding up. And as a result those flaws were worse than the sum of their parts.
I'm still disappointed about your thoughts that Link has an almost neglegible characterisation, almost like a blank slate. Just because a character isn't as blunt with their emotions doesn't mean they don't have much personality. And especially not so little that you can bend it to your will and still claim "yeah, that's definitly Link!" Just because he rarely acts, but rather reacts, just because his reactions might be subtle, just because he often doesn't seem to have an arc (which is also the case for e.g. Goku which made quite a few Dragonball fans hate him as a character), does not mean that they can be simply ignored. Animation is an important tool to convey personality and there are many of them showing how he interacts with the world. If those minor actions are indeed not interesting enough, which I can understand to some extend, there are still many scenes where Link conveys a lot of emotions, especially in games like Wind Waker, Twilight Princess or Skyward Sword. Link has friends, enemies, family in those games and he has feelings about them. He is not merely the avatar for a player that just appeared as soon as you start the game.
While I'm only somewhat fine with the mangas and they're not canon, the Four Swords manga did a much better job at "inventing" personalities for Link: We know that Link will always fight against any odds, so one personality is courageous. We know that Link is kind and passionate to the people he cares about, so one personality is just that - even if that makes him easily scared and therefor the worst fighter of the group. We know that Link can be really angry at any evildoer, so one personality is aggressive. We know that he is a good thinker when he solves puzzles and finds weakspots of enemies, so one personality is centered around analyzing.
If the complaint for Star, Korra or Ryuko is that they were based on their beginnings I feel it is fair to complain that Link did not even get that treatment. Sure, Link didn't appear to have much of a personality on the NES, thanks to limitations, but artworks already did. And since Ocarina of Time (or the photos from Link's Awakening DX) that changed. The various MCs from the mainline Pokemon games, even some spin-offs have severly less personality because despite their good animations, they don't really interact with their world. And thanks to the lack of a voice and - especially recently - custiomisation it often supplements the point that they are not much more than a link between player and game.
As for the pot scene: I still believe there are other characters better suited for it. And if I had seen more characterisation that makes me feel like that character in that fight is indeed Link, that joke might have not missed the mark for me. But like this, it just seems like it was mostly used to Cloud's benefit - at the detriment of Link. Death Battle is a good opportunity to get introduced to many new and interesting characters. Sure, Link is already pretty well known, but I can't really imagine many people watching this Death Battle and getting interested in him when he's portrayed as mostly just a gigantic weapon arsenal that likes to be disrespectful. And since he is such a famous character, it is especially disappointing that they represented him wrong in my opinion.
Oh well, I hope season 9 manages to stay more consistent. That first fight set my expectations really high!
Yes, thanks for your response, but I'm still going to have to disagree with you.
I want to start by saying that I do agree with that Link has a personality which I noted earlier, but again, I do not think he has enough of it to the point where Death Battle mischaracterized him
Most of the reason Link's characterization wasn't a huge issue to us or me, at least, is because of two main factors. The first one is, as I've mentioned before, is that Link doesn't have much character to be with most of the time; you can boil his nature to just being the heroic knight in shining armor. Now while yes, games have shown him with friends and family, which implies that he has a relationship with them, none of the games show how close those relationships are to him or how he even interacts with them daily. I don't believe it's necessary to make everything explicit around a character to have them be a well-developed character. It does help them a lot in the long run, which I don't think Zelda games often do. There are exceptions, of course, but exploring his relationships isn't is almost rarely the focus of the games, which doesn't leave a significant impression on the player when it comes to Link and his character as a whole Miyamoto himself said he gave link his name because it was to symbolize the connection between the player and the main character, it might sound like it doesn't have much to with the topic at hand. Still, to me, it shows that Link is deliberately designed to be more of a character that the player can see themselves in.
The second factor is because of that this is a Death Battle video and not a typical Zelda game with a story or plot. This is a show about finding out and researching who wins more times than not in a holds bar to the death, so because of this, characters will act differently from their actual counterparts.
Link is shown to be quite courageous and strategic when he is in battle and not someone who lets his emotions get to him, so it would make sense that he have doesn't have much of a “personality” when fighting someone to the death as he is more focused on fighting and strategizing. Yes, there are some games where Link shows genuine emotes. In some of the games, you used examples but remember those aren't in the middle of a fight. I'm Twilight Princess, for example. He was shown a vision that scared him, but it was outside of the battlefield. Link always keeps his emotions mostly in check when in battle, which Death Battle conveyed nicely in the animation. Also, I wouldn't use Goku as the best example as of now since Super gave him some character like in the Goku Black Saga, which was quite refreshing, but that's beside the point.
Regarding the Four Swords, while they tend to have different types of personalities from each other, I do think this was mainly due to trying to make them stand out from the more generic Link, and, again, mainstream games don't really elaborate on those aspects of them besides the non-canon manga and commercials.
The way Link was handled wasn't anything like Ryuko, Star, and Korra simply because of how they were handled. Mainly because that they were based on one specific part of their story and were probably at their lowest personality-wise. Nobody wants to see a bossy Korra or an angry Ryuko. Those characters have much more fleshed out and clear personalities compared to Link, and we see how they met their friends without just it being pre-established with not too much elaboration. We see how they interact with them and talk to their friends and family daily, unlike Link. Take Ocarina of Time, for example. We know that Link is good friends with Saria and that she stands up for him, but we don't usually see much from Link’s side when it comes to his relationship with her because he is mostly just blank and doesn't say much. I'm not saying it's a terrible thing. You can still make a character great without having them talk, but again, compared to someone like Ryuko, Star, and Korra. They are much more developed throughout their franchises and are just on another tier when it comes to being a full-fledged main character as a whole. Do I think you can make an argument for Link being mishandled in animations and in fan media? Yes, but I don't think that was the case here or on the same level as Korra, Ryuko, and Star.
As for the pot scene, I don't think one should look too much into it. It was playing into a meme and was there to break the tension for a bit it. It was a fun interaction between the two. I don't really see it how it benefited Cloud more than Link in any way. And as you said, most already know Link, so there’s a minimal chance that someone who hasn’t heard of Legend of Zelda at all clicked on that video. Had it been a much smaller franchise like Elfen Lied, then I would agree with you to an extent. The people who know about Zelda probably are already fans of the franchise or don't care about it, to begin with, and just wanna watch a Death Battle, video, so I don't think it could discourage any fans. If anything, I think it's the analysis portions of a Death Battle that would get people into the franchises they feature because of how they talk about lore and characters, which might get more people interested in the franchise, at least; that's what usually got me into some franchises.
So overall: We do acknowledge that Link has a character, but his portrayal in the episode wasn't too important that it could knock the episode down for us in the ranking. Still, we do appreciate your feedback and your point of view.
I didn’t have any characters that interested me matchup wise when they showed the teaser, but I’m still overall looking forward to S9 as I do wonder what matchups they have in store since they said they wanted to introduce more franchises into S9
@@MultiMario2306 On one hand I am happy this conversation got you interested to post not one, but two big responses, yet on the other hand I feel like it starts to drift a bit away from my complaint of "miss-characterisation" to "was it that important"? But I'll talk about both of those points.
Characterisation: Yes, Link was originally just a "link" for the player when he was conceived. Since then several decades have passed and over a dozen of games have been released. That is more than enough for not only allowing Link to evolve, but literally having the need to do so. If Link was still a blank slate now, I'd wager he would not still be popular today. Back in Ocarina of Time his characterisation was still clumsy. In Wind Waker he sets out on the adventure to save his sister. In Twilight Princess he is very supportive of anyone, especially in his home town. In Skyward Sword he has an especially deep bond with Zelda. And simultaneously he knows when to let something go (like Ilia having temporarily amnesia, Zelda sealing herself away in front of his eyes and his bond with Groose when he was willing to change). A good story does not need a long prologue just to drive home how they think about their world and other people. And especially in games you probably rather want to play the game than watching a characters relations until everything about their bond is drilled into your head in excruciating detail. In that sense the pot scene does contradict his characterisation. Why you don't see him show as much emotion as other characters? He's altruistic, maybe even to a fault. He does not fight for himself, but for a better world, so he tries to keep his emotions in check.
Addendum about Goku: Ignoring how divisive Super was in the first place, Goku did already have a character before that. If a person doesn't have a character arc, that still doesn't mean they don't have a character at all. I mean, both of us don't have much of an arc at the moment and we want to appear consistent, so anyone could question if we ourselves actually are a character if that was the case.
Importance: Yes, I very much think that this is very important. A fight becomes much more interesting when characters play off not only each others skills, but also personality. It's also what makes characters more believable. I've watched a video from "New Frame Plus" that praised how the characters were animated in Overwatch to portray their personality - without dialogue and barely anything of them visible since you're in first person. That is something that is adding to the experience, not something many people wasted their time on making just because. A fight scene can be as cool as you want, but if you only care about the fight choreography, it will ultimately not be very memorable. And just because Link is a more famous gaming icon doesn't mean that everyone knows him. Even if you think that only the analysis should have the goal of making people interested by showing the lore and characters, Link's analysis was not about the character ("[He has] literally no personality to go through" which was the one opinion I quoted from the video and argued with from the very beginning) or much about the lore. And even if it's not canon: Fan creations can warp the perception of a character even if they are definitly not canon. The more popular something is, the more likely it is to happen. "Reploid REVO" decided to debunk popular myths about the Mega Man lore in an entire series (called Debunker Buster) just because they crept up more and more in the community. And - as everyone knows - debunking something takes way more work than setting this myth into the world in the first place. And not everyone wants to fact check in our fast-living society while prefarably sticking to the stuff they've at least heard about.
I appreciate the time you took to read and respond to my comments and you're obviously free to respond to this one yet again, but please excuse me if I might not react anymore. It is just really difficult to uphold the argument for me when I feel like I'm alone with my point of view, even when the other side - in this case you - gives me a fair treatment. It's just that sitting here, taking a lot of time on formulating and writing these comments and yet being unable to make anyone reconsider their stance is disheartening. No, I neither expect nor want people to just say: "Wait, you're completely right and we should shame Death Battle for it now." Yes, I'd likely be much more disappointed if nobody cared about my thoughts or even reacted, well, less respectful. But it's just shocking to me that people don't think Link could have been portrayed better, especially since there is a large group of people within the Death Battle community that does have a bias against Link and only wanted this rematch so finally Cloud would win. For those that don't remember, Link vs Cloud back in season 1 was probably the most controversial episode before Goku vs Superman came out. I wonder how drastically the general opinions on those fights and their rematches would change if the results were reversed.
So, yeah, this is my final comment I want to make in that regard. If you'd be interested to continue, I will not refuse, but I'd definitly prefer a more direct exchange if possible. I do have Discord for example and could join the place linked in the description.
Other than that I am glad that you have so much fun with and passion for the show. And while that's not as much the case for me (partly because of their philosophy for scaling) and I rarely have a match-up I am really looking forward to, I usually have still a good time when watching the latest epsiode and there are many videos I love to revisit. Maybe these new franchises in season 9 will also have some neat surprises for me in store.
@@lozofspielereien8038
Hello, this will also probably be my final response, as it feels like we aren't going to change our minds. And at that point, I wouldn't say I’d like to continue the convo because, like you, it does become quite time-consuming writing these arguments.
So regarding your argument about my thoughts about characterization: Yes, Link has evolved as a character over the years since his debut on the NES, and I do acknowledge that in my previous posts that he isn't just a blank page but l the reason why I brought up Miyamoto’s thought process of making Link is that it does support my argument for Link still not having much personality. It's very evident that they have purposely not given Link not much character over the years because they still want to have that bond between the player. And like I said earlier there, everything is most likely re-established when it comes to his relationships with his friends and family.
You don't need to be explicit about a main character’s relationships to make it memorable or engaging. Still, it certainly helps one know a character and relate to them better in the long run. We don't have hours and hours upon dialogue spent talking about Link’s relationship, but what I think is needed is more interaction between him and his instead of basically being, “These are link's friends. We are barely going to elaborate on them, and Link hardly shows any emotion towards them in most games.”
Also, I did address some of your examples in my previous posts. Still, the main point I was trying to make was that in a 1v1 scenario like with Cloud, it would make sense for Link not to demonstrate that much emotion in animation because it's something he also doesn't do much in his games either. When he is fighting, he is more focused on strategizing and doesn't show that much emotion. Something I think Death Battle captured well in the video. Link at different points uses different plans of attacks against Cloud. He sets him, with the help of his Clones, so that he falls into the bombs that Red Link had planted on the battlefield. When his doppelgangers were sucked into that black portal and Link was left with no sword again, he used the magic cape as a way to get past Cloud, distract him with the song of storms so that he wouldn't notice that he took back The Master Sword. It's moments like that that make me believe personally that they portrayed Link fairly in the animation. Link is a character who has some personality in the games but not much to the point that most would write a note about, which I think people tend to overlook because there isn't much there to begin with. He has his moments, sure, but I can't necessarily say it's something that makes him stand out like other video game characters due to his lack of debt. For the pot scene again, like I also mentioned earlier, it was mostly just there for fun. I don't think it's a scene that one should look at too much. It may sound like I'm contradicting myself. Still, DB has always had moments where they usually reference a meme or trait about a character in a fun and comedic way during the battle, like Shadow pulling out a gun or Shao Kahn being spammer with his special moves. These moments don't take away from the characters as they are small funny moments meant to be nods or be there to slow the episode’s pace down. They are usually brief, and Death Battle typically doesn't go overboard, with some exceptions.
Goku’s character, from what I can recall, was always written to be kind of one-track-minded and selfish, according to Akira Toriyama, with Goku not caring for much besides fighting. This led him to be altered in Western dubs to be more sympathetic. Dragon Ball Super may be decisive to fans. Still, people can agree that seeing Goku having to show genuine anger after hearing that Zamasu killed his family was something that was kind of refreshing to some. Goku isn't a bad character and has demonstrated character on more than a few occasions, but he has mostly been one-track-minded when it comes to his goals, and it was an intentional decision.
To start, I do find myself agreeing with your statement regarding that personality, skills, and playing off the opponent's skills are important when it comes to making an animation. Still, again, I do think this episode delivered on plenty
But also, I do point out the context of the example used when comparing Death Battle and the Overwatch animation you were referencing. Overwatch always tries to have their animations convey and introduce you to the character’s personality and story events with Death Battle; the focus is on making an entering Fight animation that reflects their research. You are comparing two different types of beasts in a way. This may be a bit controversial, but when you make an animation for a show whose primary focus is about having two characters fight to the death, I don't think you should expect much when it comes to the personality aspect. You are comparing an animation that comes from a professional studio based with professional writers and storyboard artists to a semi-professional web show with a small animation team. I'm not saying that automatically clears Death Battle of any criticism, nor am I saying that you can’t show those crucial aspects in your animation just because you are a small studio. Still, I do think the comparison is unfair. Even then, I would argue that Link and Cloud’s personalities were captured well in the fight. I already talked about how Link was portrayed as pretty focused and strategic in the episode like he is in the games, and Cloud, from what I've heard from people, was also represented well in the animation. Also, remember that these two characters usually don't do much talking during battle, so it makes sense that you don't get them playing with each’s like more talkative characters like Sorra and Pit, for example. Because that's how it most likely goes down if they were to fight in canon, which I think Death Battle was aiming for. I can't entirely agree either that you need interaction that isn't strictly fighting in a fighting animation to make it memorable. For more story-focused animations, I would wholeheartedly agree. Still, it isn't mainly the focus with Death Battle animation, as they mainly focus on displaying the combatant's abilities and how they interact. However, character interactions are also something they do and focus on more often in recent the seasons lately.
Regarding what people could think of Link after seeing this episode: Legend of Zelda is one of the most iconic video games of all time. There aren't many people who still haven't heard off. I would say that is a tiny minority of people at this point that also watches Death Battle to the end where I would hardly see it as an issue of something to be concerned about, but to give it the benefit of the doubt, let's talk about it. I think someone who has never heard of Link or the Zelda franchise going into this episode and getting the wrong impression is very, very unlikely for a couple of factors. 1. Like, I mentioned so many times, Link doesn't have much of a character to him and was handled reasonably as well. 2. The pot scene is very brief compared rest of the battle, so it's unlikely that someone takes away that part of the battle and assumes that's Link's entire personality. 3. The pre-analysis of Link, one of the first things in the video, started by describing Link as heroic and someone who fights evil off to his dying breath, so most people who have never seen or heard about Zelda would think that's a fitting description by looking at Link’s design.
Yes, fan creations can wrap a character’s personality from their actual canon persona. As someone in multiple fandoms, that is quite a standard assurance, but I can't see that being the case here. Yes, they played into a meme, but if someone had never heard about Link or the Zelda franchise, they wouldn't even get it, let alone take anything away from it. And I don't think Death Battle themselves did it because they were uninformed about Link’s character, either.
Side note: the quote you used from our video doesn't represent the thoughts of everyone's opinion on the episode or Link’s character. This is a ranking list, with a lot of us having very different views on things. My co-host mainly made a snarky comment on Link’s lack of character compared to Cloud.
I feel sympathize with how you think about trying to uphold an argument when it feels like you can't get the other side to see your view after writing so much about something you are pretty passionate about. But at the same time, that's how things are, unfortunately, sometimes, neither side is going to see eye to eye, and at that point, it's just best to agree to disagree. But don't feel bad about it either it's nice to hear a different viewpoint from time to time, especially from someone who is very respectful about it. It is nice to have a genuine discussion that isn't just name-calling and insults because when you are in the versus community, that tends to become rarer and rarer nowadays. Now, I can't say that there is a stigma against Link because of the old Link vs. Cloud animation. Most people just thought the old episode was very outdated, research-wise and animation-wise. Some people, however, wanted a remake just because Cloud lost, so I can verify that but trust me, most people just wanted this matchup remade because they wanted to see a modern take on it.
But yeah, as you said, it does get quite exhausting to write all these long comments after a while, so this is also probably going to be my final message as well. But yeah, it was fun talking about this; I have already contacted you on Discord, so we can probably speak there from now on.
How’s the Season 9 Let’s Rank coming along?
It's coming along for sure, but we keep having to delay recordings cuz people are getting sick, or sidled with sore throat. I'd say about 3/5th's of it is recorded rn, not to speak of the editing going on as well.
@@Redrunner613 Well, try your best to get it done soon, even if it isn’t before the season 10 premiere.
@@Redrunner613 Well, Season 10 isn’t coming until May, it looks.
Should we expect the ranking right before Antman vs Atom like what Swiftwind did with Season 7 right before Yoda vs King Mickey?
@@Redrunner613 I was gonna ask the same.
Macho man vs Kool-aid man is over hated
What is the song that plays over every episode rank?
Will of the Drill by Brandon Yates
Yall should do the other seasons
It's definitely something I'm not personally against, but we'll have to see
I think they went against their word and decided to use popeye because that’s the one character where saitama can never win
They knew Saitama would likely lose any of his major MUs, so they went for one of the most painless ones from an audience perspective. That's my guess at least.
I mean, if you take Saitama as a serious character (which no one should do), then LOTS of characters obliterate him due to lack of feats on his end, and a lack of versatility of his abilities. As a joke character, yeah Popeye is pretty much his only competition
This video was awful, needed some more Kingdom Hearts lore tbhhh
Did you guys forgot heihachi vs geeese?
Uh, no? It got 9th Place.
Don't listen to him we sniffed paint during the recording and hallucinated the segment into the video, our bad. We'll be sure to add it for real next time
Oh
14:41 Yo, same.
Gumball will make sure I don’t have kids for saying this like he did with Speedy but it’s actually my Second Favorite Episode Ever
What's your first?
@@evea.garcia1846 Purely for Nostalgia, BATMAN VS SPIDER-MAN
For me dio took the number 1 you can have your own opinion to
29:52 😂
Star Wars is better than kingdom hearts
1:58:05 🤣
31:52
Here’s my season 8 ranking
16. Lex vs Doom
15. Iron Fist vs Po
14. Akuma vs Shao Kahn
13. Macho Man vs Kool-Aid Man
12. Steven vs Star
11. Korra vs Storm
10. Saitama vs Popeye
9. Shadow vs Ryuko
8. Heihachi vs Geese
7. Yoda vs King Mickey
6. Batman vs Iron Man
5. Blake vs Mikasa
4. Goku Black vs Reverse Flash
3. Link vs Cloud 2
2. Madara vs Aizen
1. DIO vs Alucard