Dany said in season 2 I will lay waste to armies and burn cities to the ground. With fire and blood I will take it. Something like that. I personally saw her as a problem after that. I honestly expected her to do something like this eventually. They may have rushed this season, but I saw this as being completely real to her character. She happened to be aiming her brutality towards who we saw as the right people.
It makes absolutely no sense for her character. She's always been willing to resort to extreme violence AGAINST HER ENEMIES. Her advisors have correctly gotten her to choose less extreme ways to win the battle without so much collateral damage with innocent lives lost. So to have her army defeat all of her enemies, and she has fully conquered Westeros and realized her dream, and then have her resort to extreme violence AGAINST INNOCENT PEOPLE FOR NO REASON, that makes no sense at all. She never just thought it would be cool to see a city burn. She never wanted to hurt innocent people, in fact she wanted to protect them. Her willingness to go to extremes was always for the purpose of defeating her enemies. Without any enemies left, there's no reason for the violence. It's like how President Truman was willing to drop an atomic bomb on Japan in WWII. That doesn't mean he's just as willing to drop one on Canada after the war is over. The extreme violence is only for the purpose of defeating enemies, he's not just a guy who thinks it would be cool to blow a lot of stuff up at once. The writers are just so mind numbingly stupid to create a situation like this where there is literally no reason at ALL for Dany to do that. Even a middle school kid could have done a better job. Dany's entire story is supposed to end with her resorting to extreme violence TO DEFEAT HER ENEMIES, with mass civilian casualties. Any writer with an IQ over 70 would understand that her enemies need to not be already defeated. It's so simple to have the Golden Company be strong on the ground while the depleted northern forces are unable to take the city, Cersei is using civilians as human shields, and Dany goes "screw it I'm going to win this one way or another" and starts burning everything because it's the only way to win. Or just have her be especially close to Missandei this season and seek her advice in dealing with the loss of Jorah and others, then when Missandei dies Dany snaps and attacks the city right then. Just literally any reason for Dany to want to burn the city to destroy her enemies (and thousands of innocent people who happen to be in the way) will do. The one and only thing you can do is have Dany win the battle and then burn only the innocent civilians, for no purpose at all.
@@bobdonda It's exactly what she threatened to do in Qarth, as the person above mentioned. She said she'd burn cities to the ground, not just that she'd kill the Thirteen. No doubt, many thousands of civilians would have died in exactly the same way. It is weird that she didn't ALSO burn Cersei, though. As likable as she may be to many, she was never fit to be queen.
@@bobdondawell no, YOU have an IQ of 70 if You thought that Your beloved Dany wasn't able of burning down Kingslanding and its people. i know season 8 writing is Bad, but for Danerys i think it's ok. Executing her enemies or anybody that doesnt bend the knee by burning them alive (way worse than beheading) was a clear indication of how ruthless she could be. I recommend you look into what the Allies did in Dresden, Germany, it's the same thing Dany did in Knightsland, but in real life.
@@khaleb8340 A lot of people are capable of a lot of things. Jon Snow was capable of climbing onto a dragon and killing thousands of innocent people. The question is why would he (or Dany) want to do that? What is the REASON for it? There is none. The godawful writers just wanted something unexpected to happen at the end. The bombing of Dresden should have been a blueprint for what the story should have been in GoT. A questionable decision that the leader decided was necessary, a lot of innocent lives lost in order to take out a military target. Instead they did the equivalent of having limited resistance in Dresden, the Allies march in and conquer it easily, and then start slaughtering innocent people for no reason. It doesn't make any damn sense to do that. Dany's whole story is supposed to be "I'm willing to kill a lot of innocents if it's the only way to destroy my enemy", not "I'm going to randomly kill innocents for no reason at all now!"
Not sure u even paid attention enough because Varys most DEFINITELY CARED about the people, he's literally been saying that from s1 with Ned. "I serve the realm" "You wish to know my true loyalty, not with any king or queen. But the PEOPLE." "You know I will NEVER betray the realm". Also no Dany and Drogon's attack on Eurons fleet wasn't just head on, Dany was using the sunlight to hide in the sun right before she swoops low enough to burn fleets. Wasn't on board at all with Dany ignoring the bells/surrender. I know she chose fear and knows the people will likely never love or follow her as much as those they've known, chose and love. Dany has always been willing to wipe out cities and those who stand in her way and push her too far. Unfortunately Dany was usually talked down in the past by her friends/advisers. Such as Jorah, Sir Barristen Selmy, Missandei even Jon, who may still be completely loyal to her and does still love her truly. However, Dany being rejected yet again by Jon romantically & deciding the tell his family his true heritage made Dany feel even more alone and like she's lost Jon too, as he only wants her to be his queen now. I always thought Dany's actions were driven by her revenge, loss and rejection from Westeros pretty much as the true ruler. Dany has always been a conqueror and if pushed enough, has always resorted to the fire & blood route, nothing was stopping her this time, after everything. Jon's 2nd rejection was the final blow to Danys 🖤♥️ she takes that as another loss.
All of this! Add to it the overwhelming loss that she’s suffered in the last six episodes (Viserion, Rhaegal, Jorah, Missandei) and the crushing weight of what she truly believes to be her destiny and watching it crumble before her… anyone could snap after going through what she did. And she snapped. With a nuclear weapon that calls her mom. Not at all excusable, but you can see how those things could lead someone to madness
Except Dany was not rejected by Westeros. She literally had support from every region. That's why Cersei had to buy sell swords to fight. Once King's Landing surrendered she had the support of everyone. That's one of many reasons why this episode was so baffling. It's an imaginary problem. They are telling us she didn't have support but it contradicts the actual circumstances.
@@tylabarros1506 respectfully, compliance under fear still does not equate to rejection which is the broader point. Regardless, this is a fuedal system.The armies are mostly comprised of commonfolk. The commonfolk are loyal and support their Lord. If the lord supports the monarch, then the common people support the monarch. The support Dany recieved from most of Westeros was not gained through fear of her. They were gained through political alliances. The only common people who did not support Dany were those who supported Cersei. Did they fear Dany? Yes. But those same people feared AND hated Cersei. They didn't want to die for Cersei and so they surrendered. That is them saying "Daenerys wins. She is Queen." So I'm not sure why you're saying the commonfolk didn't support her at all. I think you are maybe conflatimg support and love?
@@mandykimmav I'm not conflating support and love. I don't believe she had either, aside from those who wanted revenge against Cersei. She came to Westeros as a conqueror. Did you see the northerners' reaction to her riding into Winterfell? The northerners didn't want her there, neither did the southerners. As for being loved, she was used to the love she received for freeing slaves in Essos and she definitely doesn't have any of that in Westeros. That's why she's so jealous of Jon and Sansa.
I will argue again and be denounced. Dani’s speech at the end of episode ten season one says “those who harm you will die screaming.” Each season she is stopped from a righteous slaughter by her advisors. Even so she slaughtered the slave family heads by crucification, executed her own followers for disobedience, and planned to burn cities whose leaders had rebelled. Her first inclination was to punish. Only her advisors talked her down. The loss of Jorah, the loss of her dragons, the murder of Meisende, the betrayal by the Spider and eventually Tyrion left Jon. Jon told his sisters about his claim and they did just what Dani said they would and he withdrew physically because he was freaked out by the family link. She had no one left to restrain her. Meisende last words were burn them. Dani and Grey Worm were out for vengeance. Brutal wars end brutally. Just ask the residents of Dresden, Hiroshima, Berlin, etc. The good guys slaughter too.
That's an explanation, but it's not an excuse. She was still in the wrong. No one would complain if she had just burned down the red keep, with Cersei and all her advisors. Instead, she specifically targeted civilians. Then we see that she had no regrets.
I felt A LOT like you about how Jamie left Brienne. I was HOT! But it took me several years to realize something. S1 Jamie would have stayed with Brienne. But over the years Brienne taught Jamie about honoring your oaths, loyalty, and keeping your word. Jamie always said he’d come back for Cersei. So oddly enough the same honor that took him to Winterfell to fight is the same honor that took him back to Cersei.
The Mad Queen. The hints were always there throughout the show and seeing her dragon and best friend murdered snapped the last thread she had left to her sanity. Dany was doomed the second she sailed from Mereen. The show always warns us that people who seek to lead are not to be trusted. In Mereen, she did not seek to lead, she was called to it, to free people from slavery. In Westeros, she sought to lead. All she had was a birth right. There was no injustice, just revenge. No people to save. It was the exact opposite of Mereen. Fans got mad because they treated the show like fantasy sports with their picks to "win the throne" and named their dogs Khalassi instead of paying attention and engaging the story and characters.
Varys was all about what he believed was right for the realm. But Dany has always shown small glimpses of being “mad” throughout the show and I think Missandes death and her claim to the throne pushed her over the edge
Yeah there were glimpses of her being “mad”. I think D&D fucked up by not showing us Dany actually going “mad queen” on a small town or “kick a puppy” in a sense to show she’s capable of insanity. But because everything she’s done is understandable and was nothing anyone else would’t have done, even Stannis and Tywin were worse and they were never considered “mad”.
Yeah. That final chat with Jon aswell. When he said I loved his queen, she said, is that all I am to you now, which he confirmed because of his morals. She said, well fear it is then. She'd full on lost the plot over the throne. That's all she ever wanted,and she did would do anything to get it. I'm not sure she showed signs all the way through. But the last few seasons for sure.
@@rtellez19891 ''Kick a puppy'' is such a lame trope that is exactly what GOT was criticizing. Evil people don't come out of the gates telling you they're evil, well expect LF, but then again Ned and Cat were spectacularly dumb in that regard. And Stannis and Tywin were every bit portrayed as terrible, delusional and power-hungry monsters. The fact people were for some inexplicable reason jerking off to these two pieces of crap doesn't change it in the slightest.
Dany had shown in earlier episodes that she had a ruthless streak, and Varys could see that she was not the right fit to rule the seven kingdoms. It should not have come as a surprise how she reacted in this episode.
Almost every character in the show had a ruthless streak, but you didn't see them burning an entire city of civilians to the ground. It was just plain poor writing and character progression.
They spent 8 seasons foreshadowing this... many discussions about the gods flipping a coin, convincing Dany not to become her father, Bran's visions of Kings Landing and the throne room destroyed, etc etc etc. People were upset because they didn't want to believe they were tricked even with the hints dropped on their laps
Foreshadowing doesn't matter, it's still really dumb storytelling to have her be perfectly fine for the entire series and then just randomly go crazy and start mass murdering innocent people for no reason at all. Even the Mad King had reasons. He was paranoid and delusional, he thought everyone was out to betray him so he had to kill them first. And the Mad King had a long battle with mental illness that grew worse over the years before he got that way. No one is surprised that Dany might kill innocent people one day. But to have her just decide to mass murder for no apparent reason at all, with no purpose behind it and nothing to gain from it, is just really dumb writing.
That's silly logic. This is a show known for unexpected events. People praised when they occured in earlier seasons, even if the outcome wasn't what they hoped for because the writing was so smart. It was shocking but it never felt like the show was trying to get one over on the viewer with cheap red herrings because the events were a very natural consequence of character actions . And the Dany becoming a mad queen theory was always popular, even before the show come out. What people don't like is the poor writing that lead up to the turn. Foreshowing hints at a future event. It is not reasoning for why and how the event came to be. It's fine if people don't have an issue with that, but trivializing people's criticsms as pettiness over being decieved is nonsense.
You don't understand Danny, eh? "Let it be fear, then." - Danny Varys saw her madness taking hold. He had seen it before. The writers did GREAT!! If you watch this series back, you will see the clues that this was coming. The same for the very end. It was foreshadowed in episode 1 for God's sake. (the very end) People don't get that. This is problem with today's audience. You need to enjoy something for what it is, not what is not. Get it?? WHY focus on something that is just imaginary?? lol
Dany showed y’all mercy all seasons Everybody played on her mercy Now she’s showing no mercy and ppl are pissed … Every time Dany did something that was not her idea she suffered. . Cersei BLEW UP the Sept with innocence and its “ ugh I hate her”BeHeaded Dany BFF LIED about helping fight the dead … Dany did all the work and lost another Dragon trying to confront Cersei for lying … the moment she killed Dany BFF everyone mad … Dany lost everything and ppl rather be mad at her for snapping … smh Team MOD always 🐉🐉🐉
It's possible for people to be upset with Cersei and Dany simultaneously. When I learned about Dahmer, I wasn't any less disgusted by Bundy. Cersei is awful. She did awful things. Everyone hates her. We all looked forward to her death for 8 seasons. In this particular episode, Dany is the one mass murdering children for no discernable reason. I don't know why you are so bothered by people reacting the way we are supposed to when seeing someone commit genocide. Dany experienced trauma. It's sad, but her trauma doesn't make her actions in this episode any less horrific.and it doesn't mean people hate Cersei any less. They are both mass murderers. It's just that this episode is about Dany's mass murder.
The books have much more foreshadowing for Dany's heel turn. The show glossed over her darker tendencies and then had her just flip in this episode. Dany will likely burn Kingslanding in the book, but it will be to kill "Aegon" not Cersei. Dan and Dave were working off bulletpoints from George and they were in a rush to be finished. The Mad King hid wildfyre throughout the city. Dany accidentally set it off.
Danys’ turn had been foreshadowed since season 2 to be fair. Deeply flawed character driven by entitlement powered by the Planetos version of nuclear weapons.
I think bran warged into that white horse and got it to Arya ti escape. Because it makes no sense that a horse was just stood there,all calm like that.
"I thought Daenarys was good!" 🤣 In seriousness though, watch through again sometime now with the knowledge that Dany is the ultimate villain of the show and it will make sense. There are hints in every season that she deep down is a selfish, evil person and is just putting on a front about being a liberator to keep up appearances and because it gives her political advantage.
that’s is crazy. she’s not selfish or evil. the books make it extremely clear that she will not end up like her father. the entire point of her character is to show that she’s not like her family and other targaryens. and she’s not the “ultimate villain” 😂.
I can only laugh when people act shocked or cry foul about Dany burning King's Landing. It's 100% cope. Was it logical? No, but people tend not to be logical when they SNAP. That's what "snapping" means. Her actions make total sense in accordance with the story up to that point. Dany had always preached how she'd "take what was hers" with fire and blood. Her advisors had to talk her down from being more aggressive and cruel many times. She lost her husband and first baby. She lost two of her dragons. She'd lost most of her closest friends and advisors. Even Jon was growing fearful of her. Of course she freakin snapped! Her coin flipped one more time when the bells rang and this time it landed on MAD. This was entirely supported by the narrative that had been building for eight seasons. But a lot of people were cheering for Dany and they got ASS MAD when they didn't get the ending they wanted. It's not that her actions didn't make sense, it's that Khaleesi fans bought into her hype and got burned. Deep down, they know that says something about them. Pure. Cope.
You may be a little harsh, but you are not wrong. It was cheering an army of tens of thousands of foreign barbarians and weird, dickless dudes invading a land just because one lady wanted it. The Targs have always been invaders, starting with Aegon the Conqueror. Dragons are too OP. Power corrupts. Baratheons forever.
She already took everything though. Her enemies were defeated. Mass murdering innocent people for no reason isn't "taking what was hers", when she already had taken it. It makes no sense at all for her to start murdering people for no reason, with nothing to gain from it. It's fine to tell a story where Dany becomes delusional and makes terrible decisions that results in innocent lives lost, but there has to be a reason for it. The Mad King had a reason for everything he did. The paranoia and delusion that plagues the Targaryen family isn't just "well guess I'll just go and murder a bunch of innocents for fun now". It's just insanely bad writing to not give Dany any reason at ALL to think murdering innocents is something that she needs to do.
I don't begrudge you for having an opinion. If you're satisfied with the writing, cool. There's nothing wrong with that. However, suggesting that anyone who does not share your opinion is coping is egocentric thinking. It's a conclusion based on the presumption that how you appreciate the show is the correct way. It's not. It's just "a" way. There are various forms of reasoning. People do not all consume media for the same reasons, so their critiques are based on different standards. You not seeing things from their perspective does not automatically invalidate their criticisms. It mostly just reflects a lack of insight on your part. I enjoy music, but I am not a musician. I am still entitled to like whatever music I want, but I can still understand why someone like my brother who studied musicology may have different opinions on what I like. If he disagrees with my opinions, that doesn't insinuate either of us is coping. If I make that claim and laugh at him without considering that we appreciates music in different ways, then I'd be the one coming across silly. We have different perspectives. Someone criticizing the show for relying on foreshadowing, a narrative device, as reasoning isn't coping. That is legitimate criticism for someone concerned with the mechanics of writing in a show whose character development used to be written masterfully. You're laughing at their criticism because you don't understand why they see a narrative device being used as reasoning for a character action as problematic, lazy writing when that was very intentionally never done in earlier seasons. It's fine that you don't because you don't have to judge the show the way that they do. It would just help you avoid coming across petty by at least considering people's critiques may be valid from the perspective they are viewing it before unjustifiably ridiculing them.
@@codybrian3039 How can foreshadowing be lazy writing? What other reasoning can you give for a character's actions, other than to show that they are capable of those actions? What reasoning do you want, and why is snapping not a good enough reason? People do mentally snap, and become super extreme versions of themselves, or sometimes even completer opposites of themselves. If you wanted to write a story about a character snapping, how else could you reason the snap, other than to foreshadow that they have the potential to snap? Just have someone say they went crazy after they do? I feel like you don't think Dany's character was developed to be the crazed city and innocents burning wacko she became, but how could they have developed that without foreshadowing it. How could it be a snap if she was already sufficiently crazy enough for you as to not need any foreshadowing? I think you are doing the same thing that you accuse OP of doing when you speak as definitively as they do. I actually do that someone criticizing the show for using foreshadowing as a way to show a character is descending into madness, is coping, because they just don't like that their favorite character ended up an antagonist. She can scream Fire and Blood for 7 seasons, and burn people alive, but saying the reasoning is because she went crazy, isn't good enough? LOL. Nah, that's IS just cope.
@@kennyhudson9201 Look, I make no claim of being an expert on all subjects. However, I have been analyzing and drafting contracts for litigation for nearly a decade. If there is one thing I know, it's what I did write and what I did not write. You are misunderstanding my response.Let me be clear, I am not in any way trying to personally insult you. I don't know you. You may very well be a nice, intelligent person. Unfortunately, on this platform, all I can do is read what you wrote. Your original comment ridiculed people who did not have the same view as you. I did not criticize you having a differing view than them. I criticized you for laughing at people when you were failing to consider differing perspectives. The reason you laugh at others is objectively due to a lack of insight. This was not meant to be malicious, but constructive. We all need to be reminded of things at times. I do not want to laugh at you or imply you are not smart. I don't enjoy ridiculing people. I dislike it. A lot. The entire reason I responded to your comment was to make you aware of something you overlooked in hopes you didn't continue to ridicule others over a misunderstanding of perspective. That was done under the presumption you were a reasonable minded person. Insight is something that can be easily gained if desired. I would not bother with engaging in dialogue if I got the impression you were incapable of understanding basic concepts of communication. Please read more carefully, so you don't misinterpret what my criticism actually was. I don't care what your opinion on the show is. There's nothing wrong with liking the writing. That hurts no one. Someone ridiculing you because they do not accept your differing perspective as valid would be met with the same reaction by me. I cannot make that any more clear. I was not telling you your personal opinion on the writing of the show was wrong. I was explaining how other people's perspectives can result in differing opinions that are also not wrong. This is so you understood the point I was making about ridiculing people without any real consideration of perspectives outside your own. Now, understand and agree do not mean the same thing. I do not wish to put effort into presenting a perspective you have no intention of actually considering, but if you genuinely do want to understand (not agree with) why some people view the overreliance of foreshadowing in character development as lazy, I can happily do that. Just let me know respectfully.
Brienne and Jaime were drunk after the battle. I don't think he intended to do her dirty. He just gave into his desire for her while drunk. He cared for Brienne, just not as much as he cared for his twin sister/lover/babies' mother.
Is it a stretch that Daenerys committed mass murder? Consider this: Just in the US, there have been 49 mass shootings so far in 2024. In almost all cases, the shooter had never killed anyone before. People snap and do very strange things, horrible things to innocent people. Daenerys had a dragon instead of an AK-47 when she snapped. So the casualties were higher. You don’t think she has been through enough trauma to become that mass murderer? I’d say yes.
Qyburn was killed by his own creature. This is the last on many deaths in GoT that are ironic, or are poetic justice. Roose was stabbed just liked he stabbed Robb. Ygritte was killed by an arrow, her weapon of choice. Ned beheaded a deserter is the first episode, and was beheaded for treason. Ramsay was killed by his own hounds. Olenna poisoned Joffrey and died by poison.
The Hound is by far the character that had the best character arc without ruining him too much. Even though the Clegane bowl was fan service, it was very poetic him pushing his brother through the walls of the Red Keep and into the fire. Everything else is just utter disappointment. Arya's plot armor and the reason for her being back at the Red Keep and then going back out again just made no sense. Dreadful end to an otherwise phenomenal story I'm just happy that this series got me back into reading books.
I know this is where the writing gets questioned etc etc etc. But there were also some good things about season 8. The music was incredible, the cgi, set designs, costumes etc. I’m ok with episode 1, 2, and mostly 3 of season 8. And the finale also has some good parts. That’s my take
"This is where"...lol no, it's the whole seasons 7 and 8, parts of 5 and 6. The writing went down hard once the ran out of books. And i say that as a big fan of the show, but that's what it is. It's horrible.
@@kristymcdowell6185 It's called facts and objectivity. I don't confuse both when judging things. I personally love season 6, does it make a good season, writing wise? No. It's about knowing how to separate an opinion from objective criticism.
@@celinhabr1I don't disagree with you. I just think we also have to be mindful that not everyone judges using the same standards. The way I judge food may be more relaxed than Gordon Ramsey because of our experiences. He may be more hypercritical than I would be, and he could very well be right, but that doesn't mean I'm not being objective from my more limited perspective. Him telling me I'm wrong about something without explaining why he thinks that doesn't help me understand any better. I hope that makes sense.
the last crappy episode to go, just a shocking end to the best show ever, i would have rather the night king made it to kings landing and killed everyone
Power corrupted her mind, is not that uncommon, she was convinced that her purpose was to be on the throne, there were sing she could do that. But still, the last 2 seasons were rushed.
I always thought Dany was going to end up going all Mad Queen in the end, but my biggest annoyance is that up until this point she was all about vigorously protecting the innocent and cruelly destroying her enemies, and so yes, she'd been unnecessarily cruel before but only when she felt like the recipient of her wrath had done wrong to herself or innocents. It really doesn't make sense that she would set a city of SURRENDERING innocents on fire. If this was the end goal, we needed to establish either that she thought the civilians of King's Landing had specifically wronged her OR have a shift in her prior to this moment where she went bloodthirsty and killed just for funsies. What an unsatisfactory ending for her. I really thought we were going to get an actual descent story arc and yet here we are
"she was all about vigorously protecting the innocent and cruelly destroying her enemies.." Yes, when she had close advisors. She had Jorah as council from season 1 and lost him. Then she had Ser Barristan Selmy and lost him. Then Tyrion who kept failing her. Even Jon Snow earlier had to talk her out of flying the dragons to King's Landing and burning it down killing innocents, which she would have done. There were clear moments throughout the show hinting at her going "mad queen", people just seem to completely ignore these moments or brush it off. Edit ~ By this point in the show she's lost all her advisors, in Jon's case stopped listening to him and now views him as a threat. Plus just watched Missandei get bedhead. I think her actions were expected lol
If you were paying attention, they have been setting this up since season one. She was always bloodthirsty but like Adrianpert said, all her advisors that kept pulling her back from the edge, had died. Remember how stone cold she was when her brother was killed? And she pretty much by the end stopped trusting all her advisors. The one she listened to and trusted the most, Missandei, had just been brutally murdered but not before she told her Queen to burn it all down. Mind you, I didn't catch this either until multiple reactions I watched. The problem is not that Dani did what she did. The problem was that the showrunners rushed it the way they did because they wanted to move on from the show. I am sure it would have been more. Thats why it felt false. HBO wanted 2 more seasons to better flesh things out.
@@adrianpeart People are not ignoring moments that hint at Daenerys' fate. They are saying the story as a whole did a poor job of showing how she believably descended into that fate. Foreshadowing is just a narrative device. It is not a REASON for why the future event occurs. A story still has to gradually provide thatl. For years Daenerys has dealt with abandonment, resistance, assassination attempts, rejected peace offerings, imprisonment, large scale attacks by different factions on the brink of civil war, betrayals, the murders of her husband, son, and friends. Even the slaves she freed turned on her at times and tried to stone her. She was merciless but didn't kill innocent people or lose touch with reality. She persevered through every obstacle or setback successfully as a stronger and more confident leader. Her turning into the flying Hitler that would murder thousands of innocent people including children who had already surrendered because she lost some people is inconsistent with the character they established. it's not a logical progression. They buried the lead too deep. It would make more sense if she had failed in Mereen and came to Westeros disheartened and believing she would have to be even more ruthless, but for someone with her track record of success, it makes no sense she would be so nihilistic after a few months when she already has support for her claim in every region on top of the army she brought with her. Foreshadowing doesn't fix those issues.
The books do a much better job at showing dany go down the path of cray cray. There's many decisions she makes in the book, where you see her inner monologue, that you know she is just making rash decisions that just luckily work out for her, or she has the right people around to make them work out for her. The tv series makes her out to be much more calculated and prepared and principled, and it's not that you still couldn't make that fall work, but they needed about another full season of downfall to make what she does feel right. Even though I expected she would be the final boss and Jon would have to kill her for years before this from the books, it still just falls flat in the show.
@@boki1693 Remember how her brother was also her life long abuser who sold her as property, told her he would let every Dothraki and their horses r*** her, ignored her when she begged him to put his sword away because it breaks Dothraki law, then held the sword to her stomach and threatened to remove her child from her womb. I don't even like Dany but as someone who was abused by a family member, I can say I wouldn't shed a tear for that person. The way the showrunners try to reframe that situation specifically is gross. Cold? Sure. I guess. I'd say reasonble. Either way, it doesn't help explain why she would later senselessly mass murder children in King's Landing.
Remember season 3 ep 4, her first dracaris against a person? Yep, we all should know then she was our mad queen. But, we cheered her then. Now we have what we have.
Hey Emmy! I've been catching up on your reaction to GOT and I'm glad you've been digging it. But yea I really hated this episode. As much as I enjoy the show as a whole it just left a bad taste in my mouth.
This last season was the result of the main 2 guys wanting to finish up Game of Thrones early and wrap it up way too damn fast because they wanted to to Star Wars movies. And the dumb irony is they ruined their own show and never got to do any Star Wars movies.
Dany had always been ruthless when people push her. She fed an innocent man to her dragons after Barristan was killed. And she crucified 200 masters in Mereen (some of whom were innocent) because they crucified those 200 slave children. She had always been ruthless but fans chose not to notice that stuff.
HAHAHA! Just because YOU think it should have went a different way? lol This is problem with today's audience. You need to enjoy something for what it is, not what is not. Get it?? WHY focus on something that is just imaginary?? lol
@@nielgregory108 why would i enjoy garbage? you realize almost everyone who watched this episode feels the same way….you can’t just erase 6 seasons of character arcs and experiences to make the character an entire different person. and that happened to multiple people not just Dany. and they could’ve gone with the mad queen route or whatever. but not make it come out of nowhere. and wdym “todays audience”? this episode and the finale has been hated since it aired 😂. just utter garbage. no one wants to watch a show with amazing characters and development just to throw it all down the drain in the last two seasons. ridiculous.
@@nielgregory108 Do you really not recognize the hypocrisy of telling someone how they need to enjoy something a certain way because you didn't like the opinion they shaired about it? Someone could easily say to you, "HAHAHA! Just because YOU think it should have been viewed it a different way? lol. This is the problem with today's youtube commenters. You need to appreciate something for what it is, not what it's not. Get it?? Why focus on someone else's opinion on something that is just imaginary?" Do you see how condescendingly silly that is? And for what reason? Does it make you feel good to act superior? People can like or dislike a peice of entertainment for whatever reason they want. It is not for you, me, or anyone else to tell the other how they should enjoy .it.
Join us all in the terrible terrible ending. Also remember one thing this ending is based on the end of the dark shire portion of lord of the rings . Keep that in mind. Blame the writers but also George re Martin . We don't blame him enough . THE SHIRE
The last episode is best with a Seinfeld or standard sitcom-style laugh track inserted. There have been some respectable and worthy parody videos made.
This is where the show jumped the shark. George R. R. Martin was pissed, the fans were pissed, HBO was pissed. No one liked how the showrunners concluded the show from this point on. To be fair, they went well beyond the books two seasons ago.
George has no right to be upset. He should have finished the books. He's the one who chose Dan and Dave to adapt his novels. At the very least, he could have provided detailed outlines instead of bullet points.
@@mr.fancipants6639 he did not. Or did I miss the Winds of Winter or A Dream of Spring??? George gave D&D three plot points: Shireen's death, Odor, and who sits on the throne at the end. That's it. Dropped plotlines and characters from previous books aren't what I'm talking about. He didn't provide the end of the story, which is what most people complain about.
@@havok6280 not sure where you’re getting your information. GRRM gave Dan & Dave extensive notes, and heavily advocated for 10 seasons minimum to tell the whole story as he laid out the various plot points extensively and in great detail. The reason we don’t have WoW and ADoS are explicitly because of how HBO and D&D fumbled the conclusion of the series. GRRM has said all this in several interviews that are readily available on this platform, as well as further details on his own blog.
@mr.fancipants6639 nope. The reason we don't have the books is George has writers block. Dan and Dave even tried stalling to give him time to finish Winds. It's been over a decade. Instead of writing Winds, he's done 3 Dunk and Egg novellas, Fire and Blood, and helped with HotD. It has nothing to do with the backlash to the final season. Wait. First you said HBO was mad. Now you're saying they fumbled the final season. Which is it? Of course he said he wants 10 seasons. He gets more money with more seasons. Why do you think he wants ALL the spinoffs? According to The NY Times: “As Condal got to work on ‘House of the Dragon,’ he leaned on Martin’s expertise a lot - the opposite of what had happened with Martin in the later seasons of ‘Game of Thrones.’ In the early seasons, Martin wrote and read scripts, consulted on casting decisions and visited sets. Over time, however, as he stepped back to focus on his long-delayed next ‘Thrones’ novel, ‘The Winds of Winter,’ Martin grew estranged from the show.” So no, he didn't give extensive notes and outlines. According to him he was barely involved.
This is where the show lost me, it was such a leap to have Dany just torch innocent people for no reason and not just Cersei. People defending it dont understand that the people Dany used to kill were people with power never innocent bystanders. I want defenders to name me one time where she DELIBERATELY killed innocents to justify what happens in this episode.
![The Bells 8x5 [GOT 8x5] GAME OF THRONES 8x5[REACTION] First Time Watching!](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/wijDLHPCxMA/mqdefault.jpg)
![The Bells 8x5 [GOT 8x5] GAME OF THRONES 8x5[REACTION] First Time Watching!](/img/tr.png)
Varys was trying to kill Dany, that opening scene with the kid, they were talking about how Dany wouldn't eat the food they poisoned
Dany said in season 2
I will lay waste to armies and burn cities to the ground. With fire and blood I will take it.
Something like that. I personally saw her as a problem after that. I honestly expected her to do something like this eventually. They may have rushed this season, but I saw this as being completely real to her character. She happened to be aiming her brutality towards who we saw as the right people.
she’s been 💀💀 people since season 1 , fire and blood
It makes absolutely no sense for her character.
She's always been willing to resort to extreme violence AGAINST HER ENEMIES. Her advisors have correctly gotten her to choose less extreme ways to win the battle without so much collateral damage with innocent lives lost.
So to have her army defeat all of her enemies, and she has fully conquered Westeros and realized her dream, and then have her resort to extreme violence AGAINST INNOCENT PEOPLE FOR NO REASON, that makes no sense at all. She never just thought it would be cool to see a city burn. She never wanted to hurt innocent people, in fact she wanted to protect them. Her willingness to go to extremes was always for the purpose of defeating her enemies. Without any enemies left, there's no reason for the violence.
It's like how President Truman was willing to drop an atomic bomb on Japan in WWII. That doesn't mean he's just as willing to drop one on Canada after the war is over. The extreme violence is only for the purpose of defeating enemies, he's not just a guy who thinks it would be cool to blow a lot of stuff up at once.
The writers are just so mind numbingly stupid to create a situation like this where there is literally no reason at ALL for Dany to do that. Even a middle school kid could have done a better job. Dany's entire story is supposed to end with her resorting to extreme violence TO DEFEAT HER ENEMIES, with mass civilian casualties.
Any writer with an IQ over 70 would understand that her enemies need to not be already defeated. It's so simple to have the Golden Company be strong on the ground while the depleted northern forces are unable to take the city, Cersei is using civilians as human shields, and Dany goes "screw it I'm going to win this one way or another" and starts burning everything because it's the only way to win.
Or just have her be especially close to Missandei this season and seek her advice in dealing with the loss of Jorah and others, then when Missandei dies Dany snaps and attacks the city right then.
Just literally any reason for Dany to want to burn the city to destroy her enemies (and thousands of innocent people who happen to be in the way) will do. The one and only thing you can do is have Dany win the battle and then burn only the innocent civilians, for no purpose at all.
@@bobdonda It's exactly what she threatened to do in Qarth, as the person above mentioned. She said she'd burn cities to the ground, not just that she'd kill the Thirteen. No doubt, many thousands of civilians would have died in exactly the same way. It is weird that she didn't ALSO burn Cersei, though. As likable as she may be to many, she was never fit to be queen.
@@bobdondawell no, YOU have an IQ of 70 if You thought that Your beloved Dany wasn't able of burning down Kingslanding and its people. i know season 8 writing is Bad, but for Danerys i think it's ok. Executing her enemies or anybody that doesnt bend the knee by burning them alive (way worse than beheading) was a clear indication of how ruthless she could be. I recommend you look into what the Allies did in Dresden, Germany, it's the same thing Dany did in Knightsland, but in real life.
@@khaleb8340 A lot of people are capable of a lot of things. Jon Snow was capable of climbing onto a dragon and killing thousands of innocent people.
The question is why would he (or Dany) want to do that? What is the REASON for it? There is none. The godawful writers just wanted something unexpected to happen at the end.
The bombing of Dresden should have been a blueprint for what the story should have been in GoT. A questionable decision that the leader decided was necessary, a lot of innocent lives lost in order to take out a military target.
Instead they did the equivalent of having limited resistance in Dresden, the Allies march in and conquer it easily, and then start slaughtering innocent people for no reason. It doesn't make any damn sense to do that.
Dany's whole story is supposed to be "I'm willing to kill a lot of innocents if it's the only way to destroy my enemy", not "I'm going to randomly kill innocents for no reason at all now!"
"What a journey we've all had." Indeed.
Not sure u even paid attention enough because Varys most DEFINITELY CARED about the people, he's literally been saying that from s1 with Ned. "I serve the realm" "You wish to know my true loyalty, not with any king or queen. But the PEOPLE." "You know I will NEVER betray the realm".
Also no Dany and Drogon's attack on Eurons fleet wasn't just head on, Dany was using the sunlight to hide in the sun right before she swoops low enough to burn fleets. Wasn't on board at all with Dany ignoring the bells/surrender. I know she chose fear and knows the people will likely never love or follow her as much as those they've known, chose and love. Dany has always been willing to wipe out cities and those who stand in her way and push her too far. Unfortunately Dany was usually talked down in the past by her friends/advisers. Such as Jorah, Sir Barristen Selmy, Missandei even Jon, who may still be completely loyal to her and does still love her truly. However, Dany being rejected yet again by Jon romantically & deciding the tell his family his true heritage made Dany feel even more alone and like she's lost Jon too, as he only wants her to be his queen now.
I always thought Dany's actions were driven by her revenge, loss and rejection from Westeros pretty much as the true ruler. Dany has always been a conqueror and if pushed enough, has always resorted to the fire & blood route, nothing was stopping her this time, after everything. Jon's 2nd rejection was the final blow to Danys 🖤♥️ she takes that as another loss.
All of this! Add to it the overwhelming loss that she’s suffered in the last six episodes (Viserion, Rhaegal, Jorah, Missandei) and the crushing weight of what she truly believes to be her destiny and watching it crumble before her… anyone could snap after going through what she did. And she snapped. With a nuclear weapon that calls her mom.
Not at all excusable, but you can see how those things could lead someone to madness
Except Dany was not rejected by Westeros. She literally had support from every region. That's why Cersei had to buy sell swords to fight. Once King's Landing surrendered she had the support of everyone. That's one of many reasons why this episode was so baffling. It's an imaginary problem. They are telling us she didn't have support but it contradicts the actual circumstances.
@@mandykimmavShe allied with some of the high Lords and Ladies, but the commoners didn't support her at all. They only feared her.
@@tylabarros1506 respectfully, compliance under fear still does not equate to rejection which is the broader point. Regardless, this is a fuedal system.The armies are mostly comprised of commonfolk. The commonfolk are loyal and support their Lord. If the lord supports the monarch, then the common people support the monarch. The support Dany recieved from most of Westeros was not gained through fear of her. They were gained through political alliances. The only common people who did not support Dany were those who supported Cersei. Did they fear Dany? Yes. But those same people feared AND hated Cersei. They didn't want to die for Cersei and so they surrendered. That is them saying "Daenerys wins. She is Queen."
So I'm not sure why you're saying the commonfolk didn't support her at all. I think you are maybe conflatimg support and love?
@@mandykimmav I'm not conflating support and love. I don't believe she had either, aside from those who wanted revenge against Cersei. She came to Westeros as a conqueror. Did you see the northerners' reaction to her riding into Winterfell? The northerners didn't want her there, neither did the southerners. As for being loved, she was used to the love she received for freeing slaves in Essos and she definitely doesn't have any of that in Westeros. That's why she's so jealous of Jon and Sansa.
I will argue again and be denounced. Dani’s speech at the end of episode ten season one says “those who harm you will die screaming.” Each season she is stopped from a righteous slaughter by her advisors. Even so she slaughtered the slave family heads by crucification, executed her own followers for disobedience, and planned to burn cities whose leaders had rebelled. Her first inclination was to punish. Only her advisors talked her down. The loss of Jorah, the loss of her dragons, the murder of Meisende, the betrayal by the Spider and eventually Tyrion left Jon. Jon told his sisters about his claim and they did just what Dani said they would and he withdrew physically because he was freaked out by the family link. She had no one left to restrain her. Meisende last words were burn them. Dani and Grey Worm were out for vengeance.
Brutal wars end brutally. Just ask the residents of Dresden, Hiroshima, Berlin, etc. The good guys slaughter too.
Thank you, how people don't see this coming is baffling
That's an explanation, but it's not an excuse. She was still in the wrong. No one would complain if she had just burned down the red keep, with Cersei and all her advisors. Instead, she specifically targeted civilians. Then we see that she had no regrets.
"Only death can pay for life." ~This Witch
Another great reaction, thank you Emmy💜 can hardly wait for your reaction to the final episode. Looking forward to starting another series with you.
The first time I watched this episode, I said out loud, 'Damn, it's been like 30 minutes and she is STILL burning King's Landing!'.
I felt A LOT like you about how Jamie left Brienne. I was HOT! But it took me several years to realize something. S1 Jamie would have stayed with Brienne. But over the years Brienne taught Jamie about honoring your oaths, loyalty, and keeping your word. Jamie always said he’d come back for Cersei. So oddly enough the same honor that took him to Winterfell to fight is the same honor that took him back to Cersei.
Emmy, great reaction!! Looking forward to house of the dragon with you!! Another great series is Vikings, please consider that one!!
its caches of wildfire hidden in king's landing.. the mad king had wildfire hidden everywhere, he wanted to burn them all
The Mad Queen. The hints were always there throughout the show and seeing her dragon and best friend murdered snapped the last thread she had left to her sanity.
Dany was doomed the second she sailed from Mereen. The show always warns us that people who seek to lead are not to be trusted. In Mereen, she did not seek to lead, she was called to it, to free people from slavery.
In Westeros, she sought to lead. All she had was a birth right. There was no injustice, just revenge. No people to save. It was the exact opposite of Mereen.
Fans got mad because they treated the show like fantasy sports with their picks to "win the throne" and named their dogs Khalassi instead of paying attention and engaging the story and characters.
Varys was all about what he believed was right for the realm. But Dany has always shown small glimpses of being “mad” throughout the show and I think Missandes death and her claim to the throne pushed her over the edge
Yeah there were glimpses of her being “mad”. I think D&D fucked up by not showing us Dany actually going “mad queen” on a small town or “kick a puppy” in a sense to show she’s capable of insanity. But because everything she’s done is understandable and was nothing anyone else would’t have done, even Stannis and Tywin were worse and they were never considered “mad”.
Yeah. That final chat with Jon aswell. When he said I loved his queen, she said, is that all I am to you now, which he confirmed because of his morals. She said, well fear it is then. She'd full on lost the plot over the throne. That's all she ever wanted,and she did would do anything to get it. I'm not sure she showed signs all the way through. But the last few seasons for sure.
@@rtellez19891 ''Kick a puppy'' is such a lame trope that is exactly what GOT was criticizing. Evil people don't come out of the gates telling you they're evil, well expect LF, but then again Ned and Cat were spectacularly dumb in that regard. And Stannis and Tywin were every bit portrayed as terrible, delusional and power-hungry monsters. The fact people were for some inexplicable reason jerking off to these two pieces of crap doesn't change it in the slightest.
Dany went mad and became her father
Daenerys went mad but Drogon was waiting for that moment
I guess Dragons react to the emotions of their rider.
Robert Baratheon was right. Good old King Bobby B.
Dany had shown in earlier episodes that she had a ruthless streak, and Varys could see that she was not the right fit to rule the seven kingdoms. It should not have come as a surprise how she reacted in this episode.
Almost every character in the show had a ruthless streak, but you didn't see them burning an entire city of civilians to the ground. It was just plain poor writing and character progression.
They spent 8 seasons foreshadowing this... many discussions about the gods flipping a coin, convincing Dany not to become her father, Bran's visions of Kings Landing and the throne room destroyed, etc etc etc. People were upset because they didn't want to believe they were tricked even with the hints dropped on their laps
Exactly this lol
Foreshadowing doesn't matter, it's still really dumb storytelling to have her be perfectly fine for the entire series and then just randomly go crazy and start mass murdering innocent people for no reason at all.
Even the Mad King had reasons. He was paranoid and delusional, he thought everyone was out to betray him so he had to kill them first. And the Mad King had a long battle with mental illness that grew worse over the years before he got that way.
No one is surprised that Dany might kill innocent people one day. But to have her just decide to mass murder for no apparent reason at all, with no purpose behind it and nothing to gain from it, is just really dumb writing.
@@bobdonda The thing is, foreshadowing and poor execution/writing can both be true
That's silly logic. This is a show known for unexpected events. People praised when they occured in earlier seasons, even if the outcome wasn't what they hoped for because the writing was so smart. It was shocking but it never felt like the show was trying to get one over on the viewer with cheap red herrings because the events were a very natural consequence of character actions . And the Dany becoming a mad queen theory was always popular, even before the show come out. What people don't like is the poor writing that lead up to the turn. Foreshowing hints at a future event. It is not reasoning for why and how the event came to be. It's fine if people don't have an issue with that, but trivializing people's criticsms as pettiness over being decieved is nonsense.
You don't understand Danny, eh? "Let it be fear, then." - Danny Varys saw her madness taking hold. He had seen it before. The writers did GREAT!! If you watch this series back, you will see the clues that this was coming. The same for the very end. It was foreshadowed in episode 1 for God's sake. (the very end) People don't get that. This is problem with today's audience. You need to enjoy something for what it is, not what is not. Get it?? WHY focus on something that is just imaginary?? lol
Dany showed y’all mercy all seasons
Everybody played on her mercy
Now she’s showing no mercy and ppl are pissed … Every time Dany did something that was not her idea she suffered. . Cersei BLEW UP the Sept with innocence and its “ ugh I hate her”BeHeaded Dany BFF
LIED about helping fight the dead … Dany did all the work and lost another Dragon trying to confront Cersei for lying … the moment she killed Dany BFF everyone mad … Dany lost everything and ppl rather be mad at her for snapping … smh Team MOD always
🐉🐉🐉
It's possible for people to be upset with Cersei and Dany simultaneously.
When I learned about Dahmer, I wasn't any less disgusted by Bundy.
Cersei is awful. She did awful things. Everyone hates her. We all looked forward to her death for 8 seasons.
In this particular episode, Dany is the one mass murdering children for no discernable reason. I don't know why you are so bothered by people reacting the way we are supposed to when seeing someone commit genocide. Dany experienced trauma. It's sad, but her trauma doesn't make her actions in this episode any less horrific.and it doesn't mean people hate Cersei any less.
They are both mass murderers. It's just that this episode is about Dany's mass murder.
The books have much more foreshadowing for Dany's heel turn. The show glossed over her darker tendencies and then had her just flip in this episode. Dany will likely burn Kingslanding in the book, but it will be to kill "Aegon" not Cersei.
Dan and Dave were working off bulletpoints from George and they were in a rush to be finished.
The Mad King hid wildfyre throughout the city. Dany accidentally set it off.
Danys’ turn had been foreshadowed since season 2 to be fair. Deeply flawed character driven by entitlement powered by the Planetos version of nuclear weapons.
Yea Emmy your reaction at the end was everyone's reaction....the writers really crapped the bed the end of this season smh
I think bran warged into that white horse and got it to Arya ti escape. Because it makes no sense that a horse was just stood there,all calm like that.
The people she truly trusted most both told her to be the dragon. Her not doing so sooner cost both their lives. It makes complete sense.
"I thought Daenarys was good!" 🤣
In seriousness though, watch through again sometime now with the knowledge that Dany is the ultimate villain of the show and it will make sense. There are hints in every season that she deep down is a selfish, evil person and is just putting on a front about being a liberator to keep up appearances and because it gives her political advantage.
"I know a killer when I see one"
Well thanks arya, but she just slaughtered a few thousand people, so it's a bit obvious.
that’s is crazy. she’s not selfish or evil. the books make it extremely clear that she will not end up like her father. the entire point of her character is to show that she’s not like her family and other targaryens. and she’s not the “ultimate villain” 😂.
She is, she just snapped, too much happened and she lost everyone she trusted
@@cathleenwarner1778 yeah but not throughout the seasons. only the shitty ones
@@penguin50279 if anything, she's even worse in the books.
I can only laugh when people act shocked or cry foul about Dany burning King's Landing. It's 100% cope. Was it logical? No, but people tend not to be logical when they SNAP. That's what "snapping" means. Her actions make total sense in accordance with the story up to that point. Dany had always preached how she'd "take what was hers" with fire and blood. Her advisors had to talk her down from being more aggressive and cruel many times. She lost her husband and first baby. She lost two of her dragons. She'd lost most of her closest friends and advisors. Even Jon was growing fearful of her. Of course she freakin snapped! Her coin flipped one more time when the bells rang and this time it landed on MAD. This was entirely supported by the narrative that had been building for eight seasons. But a lot of people were cheering for Dany and they got ASS MAD when they didn't get the ending they wanted. It's not that her actions didn't make sense, it's that Khaleesi fans bought into her hype and got burned. Deep down, they know that says something about them. Pure. Cope.
You may be a little harsh, but you are not wrong. It was cheering an army of tens of thousands of foreign barbarians and weird, dickless dudes invading a land just because one lady wanted it.
The Targs have always been invaders, starting with Aegon the Conqueror. Dragons are too OP. Power corrupts.
Baratheons forever.
She already took everything though. Her enemies were defeated. Mass murdering innocent people for no reason isn't "taking what was hers", when she already had taken it.
It makes no sense at all for her to start murdering people for no reason, with nothing to gain from it. It's fine to tell a story where Dany becomes delusional and makes terrible decisions that results in innocent lives lost, but there has to be a reason for it. The Mad King had a reason for everything he did. The paranoia and delusion that plagues the Targaryen family isn't just "well guess I'll just go and murder a bunch of innocents for fun now".
It's just insanely bad writing to not give Dany any reason at ALL to think murdering innocents is something that she needs to do.
I don't begrudge you for having an opinion. If you're satisfied with the writing, cool. There's nothing wrong with that. However, suggesting that anyone who does not share your opinion is coping is egocentric thinking. It's a conclusion based on the presumption that how you appreciate the show is the correct way. It's not. It's just "a" way. There are various forms of reasoning. People do not all consume media for the same reasons, so their critiques are based on different standards. You not seeing things from their perspective does not automatically invalidate their criticisms. It mostly just reflects a lack of insight on your part.
I enjoy music, but I am not a musician. I am still entitled to like whatever music I want, but I can still understand why someone like my brother who studied musicology may have different opinions on what I like. If he disagrees with my opinions, that doesn't insinuate either of us is coping. If I make that claim and laugh at him without considering that we appreciates music in different ways, then I'd be the one coming across silly. We have different perspectives.
Someone criticizing the show for relying on foreshadowing, a narrative device, as reasoning isn't coping. That is legitimate criticism for someone concerned with the mechanics of writing in a show whose character development used to be written masterfully. You're laughing at their criticism because you don't understand why they see a narrative device being used as reasoning for a character action as problematic, lazy writing when that was very intentionally never done in earlier seasons. It's fine that you don't because you don't have to judge the show the way that they do. It would just help you avoid coming across petty by at least considering people's critiques may be valid from the perspective they are viewing it before unjustifiably ridiculing them.
@@codybrian3039 How can foreshadowing be lazy writing? What other reasoning can you give for a character's actions, other than to show that they are capable of those actions? What reasoning do you want, and why is snapping not a good enough reason? People do mentally snap, and become super extreme versions of themselves, or sometimes even completer opposites of themselves. If you wanted to write a story about a character snapping, how else could you reason the snap, other than to foreshadow that they have the potential to snap? Just have someone say they went crazy after they do? I feel like you don't think Dany's character was developed to be the crazed city and innocents burning wacko she became, but how could they have developed that without foreshadowing it. How could it be a snap if she was already sufficiently crazy enough for you as to not need any foreshadowing?
I think you are doing the same thing that you accuse OP of doing when you speak as definitively as they do. I actually do that someone criticizing the show for using foreshadowing as a way to show a character is descending into madness, is coping, because they just don't like that their favorite character ended up an antagonist. She can scream Fire and Blood for 7 seasons, and burn people alive, but saying the reasoning is because she went crazy, isn't good enough? LOL. Nah, that's IS just cope.
@@kennyhudson9201 Look, I make no claim of being an expert on all subjects. However, I have been analyzing and drafting contracts for litigation for nearly a decade. If there is one thing I know, it's what I did write and what I did not write.
You are misunderstanding my response.Let me be clear, I am not in any way trying to personally insult you. I don't know you. You may very well be a nice, intelligent person. Unfortunately, on this platform, all I can do is read what you wrote. Your original comment ridiculed people who did not have the same view as you. I did not criticize you having a differing view than them. I criticized you for laughing at people when you were failing to consider differing perspectives. The reason you laugh at others is objectively due to a lack of insight. This was not meant to be malicious, but constructive. We all need to be reminded of things at times. I do not want to laugh at you or imply you are not smart. I don't enjoy ridiculing people. I dislike it. A lot. The entire reason I responded to your comment was to make you aware of something you overlooked in hopes you didn't continue to ridicule others over a misunderstanding of perspective. That was done under the presumption you were a reasonable minded person. Insight is something that can be easily gained if desired. I would not bother with engaging in dialogue if I got the impression you were incapable of understanding basic concepts of communication. Please read more carefully, so you don't misinterpret what my criticism actually was. I don't care what your opinion on the show is. There's nothing wrong with liking the writing. That hurts no one. Someone ridiculing you because they do not accept your differing perspective as valid would be met with the same reaction by me. I cannot make that any more clear. I was not telling you your personal opinion on the writing of the show was wrong. I was explaining how other people's perspectives can result in differing opinions that are also not wrong. This is so you understood the point I was making about ridiculing people without any real consideration of perspectives outside your own.
Now, understand and agree do not mean the same thing. I do not wish to put effort into presenting a perspective you have no intention of actually considering, but if you genuinely do want to understand (not agree with) why some people view the overreliance of foreshadowing in character development as lazy, I can happily do that. Just let me know respectfully.
Daenerys became "her fathers daughter" att The end.
After all, "when a Targaryen were born, The gods flipped a coin"........
Brienne and Jaime were drunk after the battle. I don't think he intended to do her dirty. He just gave into his desire for her while drunk. He cared for Brienne, just not as much as he cared for his twin sister/lover/babies' mother.
I blame it all on Lyanna.
Is it a stretch that Daenerys committed mass murder? Consider this: Just in the US, there have been 49 mass shootings so far in 2024. In almost all cases, the shooter had never killed anyone before. People snap and do very strange things, horrible things to innocent people.
Daenerys had a dragon instead of an AK-47 when she snapped. So the casualties were higher. You don’t think she has been through enough trauma to become that mass murderer? I’d say yes.
trauma does not justify commiting a mass murder, never💀
Qyburn was killed by his own creature.
This is the last on many deaths in GoT that are ironic, or are poetic justice.
Roose was stabbed just liked he stabbed Robb.
Ygritte was killed by an arrow, her weapon of choice.
Ned beheaded a deserter is the first episode, and was beheaded for treason.
Ramsay was killed by his own hounds.
Olenna poisoned Joffrey and died by poison.
The Hound is by far the character that had the best character arc without ruining him too much. Even though the Clegane bowl was fan service, it was very poetic him pushing his brother through the walls of the Red Keep and into the fire. Everything else is just utter disappointment. Arya's plot armor and the reason for her being back at the Red Keep and then going back out again just made no sense. Dreadful end to an otherwise phenomenal story I'm just happy that this series got me back into reading books.
I know this is where the writing gets questioned etc etc etc. But there were also some good things about season 8. The music was incredible, the cgi, set designs, costumes etc. I’m ok with episode 1, 2, and mostly 3 of season 8. And the finale also has some good parts. That’s my take
Which make the atrocious writing even more annoying for me.. If eveything turned to shit, it would've somehow been more acceptable.
"This is where"...lol no, it's the whole seasons 7 and 8, parts of 5 and 6. The writing went down hard once the ran out of books. And i say that as a big fan of the show, but that's what it is. It's horrible.
@@celinhabr1 it’s called an opinion. I don’t agree with yours just like you don’t with mine.
@@kristymcdowell6185 It's called facts and objectivity. I don't confuse both when judging things. I personally love season 6, does it make a good season, writing wise? No. It's about knowing how to separate an opinion from objective criticism.
@@celinhabr1I don't disagree with you. I just think we also have to be mindful that not everyone judges using the same standards. The way I judge food may be more relaxed than Gordon Ramsey because of our experiences. He may be more hypercritical than I would be, and he could very well be right, but that doesn't mean I'm not being objective from my more limited perspective. Him telling me I'm wrong about something without explaining why he thinks that doesn't help me understand any better.
I hope that makes sense.
the last crappy episode to go, just a shocking end to the best show ever, i would have rather the night king made it to kings landing and killed everyone
Brand was the lord of light. The white walkers cant run. Tyrion is the mad kings bastard. Jon was Azor ahai.
Power corrupted her mind, is not that uncommon, she was convinced that her purpose was to be on the throne, there were sing she could do that. But still, the last 2 seasons were rushed.
Yeah...
She WENT a LOT crazy. Dany lost it…very Targaryen.
I always thought Dany was going to end up going all Mad Queen in the end, but my biggest annoyance is that up until this point she was all about vigorously protecting the innocent and cruelly destroying her enemies, and so yes, she'd been unnecessarily cruel before but only when she felt like the recipient of her wrath had done wrong to herself or innocents. It really doesn't make sense that she would set a city of SURRENDERING innocents on fire. If this was the end goal, we needed to establish either that she thought the civilians of King's Landing had specifically wronged her OR have a shift in her prior to this moment where she went bloodthirsty and killed just for funsies. What an unsatisfactory ending for her. I really thought we were going to get an actual descent story arc and yet here we are
"she was all about vigorously protecting the innocent and cruelly destroying her enemies.." Yes, when she had close advisors. She had Jorah as council from season 1 and lost him. Then she had Ser Barristan Selmy and lost him. Then Tyrion who kept failing her. Even Jon Snow earlier had to talk her out of flying the dragons to King's Landing and burning it down killing innocents, which she would have done. There were clear moments throughout the show hinting at her going "mad queen", people just seem to completely ignore these moments or brush it off.
Edit ~ By this point in the show she's lost all her advisors, in Jon's case stopped listening to him and now views him as a threat. Plus just watched Missandei get bedhead. I think her actions were expected lol
If you were paying attention, they have been setting this up since season one. She was always bloodthirsty but like Adrianpert said, all her advisors that kept pulling her back from the edge, had died. Remember how stone cold she was when her brother was killed? And she pretty much by the end stopped trusting all her advisors. The one she listened to and trusted the most, Missandei, had just been brutally murdered but not before she told her Queen to burn it all down. Mind you, I didn't catch this either until multiple reactions I watched.
The problem is not that Dani did what she did. The problem was that the showrunners rushed it the way they did because they wanted to move on from the show. I am sure it would have been more. Thats why it felt false. HBO wanted 2 more seasons to better flesh things out.
@@adrianpeart People are not ignoring moments that hint at Daenerys' fate. They are saying the story as a whole did a poor job of showing how she believably descended into that fate. Foreshadowing is just a narrative device. It is not a REASON for why the future event occurs. A story still has to gradually provide thatl. For years Daenerys has dealt with abandonment, resistance, assassination attempts, rejected peace offerings, imprisonment, large scale attacks by different factions on the brink of civil war, betrayals, the murders of her husband, son, and friends. Even the slaves she freed turned on her at times and tried to stone her. She was merciless but didn't kill innocent people or lose touch with reality. She persevered through every obstacle or setback successfully as a stronger and more confident leader. Her turning into the flying Hitler that would murder thousands of innocent people including children who had already surrendered because she lost some people is inconsistent with the character they established. it's not a logical progression. They buried the lead too deep. It would make more sense if she had failed in Mereen and came to Westeros disheartened and believing she would have to be even more ruthless, but for someone with her track record of success, it makes no sense she would be so nihilistic after a few months when she already has support for her claim in every region on top of the army she brought with her. Foreshadowing doesn't fix those issues.
The books do a much better job at showing dany go down the path of cray cray. There's many decisions she makes in the book, where you see her inner monologue, that you know she is just making rash decisions that just luckily work out for her, or she has the right people around to make them work out for her. The tv series makes her out to be much more calculated and prepared and principled, and it's not that you still couldn't make that fall work, but they needed about another full season of downfall to make what she does feel right. Even though I expected she would be the final boss and Jon would have to kill her for years before this from the books, it still just falls flat in the show.
@@boki1693 Remember how her brother was also her life long abuser who sold her as property, told her he would let every Dothraki and their horses r*** her, ignored her when she begged him to put his sword away because it breaks Dothraki law, then held the sword to her stomach and threatened to remove her child from her womb. I don't even like Dany but as someone who was abused by a family member, I can say I wouldn't shed a tear for that person. The way the showrunners try to reframe that situation specifically is gross. Cold? Sure. I guess. I'd say reasonble. Either way, it doesn't help explain why she would later senselessly mass murder children in King's Landing.
Dragons lay fertilized eggs. One sex. Parthenogenesis.
Remember season 3 ep 4, her first dracaris against a person? Yep, we all should know then she was our mad queen. But, we cheered her then. Now we have what we have.
The only thing that would improve the final episode,and alot of season 7 is,if Deadpool did cameo's throughout saying, well that's lazy writing.😂
Hey Emmy! I've been catching up on your reaction to GOT and I'm glad you've been digging it. But yea I really hated this episode. As much as I enjoy the show as a whole it just left a bad taste in my mouth.
Daenerys did what she needed to do and cleansed Kings Landing 🤭
This last season was the result of the main 2 guys wanting to finish up Game of Thrones early and wrap it up way too damn fast because they wanted to to Star Wars movies. And the dumb irony is they ruined their own show and never got to do any Star Wars movies.
Dany had always been ruthless when people push her. She fed an innocent man to her dragons after Barristan was killed. And she crucified 200 masters in Mereen (some of whom were innocent) because they crucified those 200 slave children. She had always been ruthless but fans chose not to notice that stuff.
S2e9
Ser Davos ; "I've never known The Bells to mean surrender"
😒...
the writers already screwed dany but in this episode they REALLY screwed her up and “WHY?!” should be the tagline for seasons 7-8
HAHAHA! Just because YOU think it should have went a different way? lol This is problem with today's audience. You need to enjoy something for what it is, not what is not. Get it?? WHY focus on something that is just imaginary?? lol
@@nielgregory108 why would i enjoy garbage? you realize almost everyone who watched this episode feels the same way….you can’t just erase 6 seasons of character arcs and experiences to make the character an entire different person. and that happened to multiple people not just Dany. and they could’ve gone with the mad queen route or whatever. but not make it come out of nowhere. and wdym “todays audience”? this episode and the finale has been hated since it aired 😂. just utter garbage. no one wants to watch a show with amazing characters and development just to throw it all down the drain in the last two seasons. ridiculous.
@@nielgregory108 Do you really not recognize the hypocrisy of telling someone how they need to enjoy something a certain way because you didn't like the opinion they shaired about it?
Someone could easily say to you,
"HAHAHA! Just because YOU think it should have been viewed it a different way? lol. This is the problem with today's youtube commenters.
You need to appreciate something for what it is, not what it's not. Get it?? Why focus on someone else's opinion on something that is just imaginary?"
Do you see how condescendingly silly that is? And for what reason? Does it make you feel good to act superior? People can like or dislike a peice of entertainment for whatever reason they want. It is not for you, me, or anyone else to tell the other how they should enjoy .it.
Join us all in the terrible terrible ending.
Also remember one thing this ending is based on the end of the dark shire portion of lord of the rings . Keep that in mind. Blame the writers but also George re Martin . We don't blame him enough . THE SHIRE
lol, just wait...there is more terrible writing coming. Take the last episode as a bad parody, perhaps it's more enjoyable that way.
The last episode is best with a Seinfeld or standard sitcom-style laugh track inserted. There have been some respectable and worthy parody videos made.
There are female dragons, just not on this show.
This is where the show jumped the shark. George R. R. Martin was pissed, the fans were pissed, HBO was pissed. No one liked how the showrunners concluded the show from this point on. To be fair, they went well beyond the books two seasons ago.
George has no right to be upset. He should have finished the books. He's the one who chose Dan and Dave to adapt his novels. At the very least, he could have provided detailed outlines instead of bullet points.
@@havok6280 he did. They cut out whole plot lines and characters.
@@mr.fancipants6639 he did not. Or did I miss the Winds of Winter or A Dream of Spring???
George gave D&D three plot points: Shireen's death, Odor, and who sits on the throne at the end. That's it. Dropped plotlines and characters from previous books aren't what I'm talking about. He didn't provide the end of the story, which is what most people complain about.
@@havok6280 not sure where you’re getting your information. GRRM gave Dan & Dave extensive notes, and heavily advocated for 10 seasons minimum to tell the whole story as he laid out the various plot points extensively and in great detail. The reason we don’t have WoW and ADoS are explicitly because of how HBO and D&D fumbled the conclusion of the series.
GRRM has said all this in several interviews that are readily available on this platform, as well as further details on his own blog.
@mr.fancipants6639 nope. The reason we don't have the books is George has writers block. Dan and Dave even tried stalling to give him time to finish Winds. It's been over a decade.
Instead of writing Winds, he's done 3 Dunk and Egg novellas, Fire and Blood, and helped with HotD. It has nothing to do with the backlash to the final season.
Wait. First you said HBO was mad. Now you're saying they fumbled the final season. Which is it?
Of course he said he wants 10 seasons. He gets more money with more seasons. Why do you think he wants ALL the spinoffs?
According to The NY Times: “As Condal got to work on ‘House of the Dragon,’ he leaned on Martin’s expertise a lot - the opposite of what had happened with Martin in the later seasons of ‘Game of Thrones.’ In the early seasons, Martin wrote and read scripts, consulted on casting decisions and visited sets. Over time, however, as he stepped back to focus on his long-delayed next ‘Thrones’ novel, ‘The Winds of Winter,’ Martin grew estranged from the show.”
So no, he didn't give extensive notes and outlines. According to him he was barely involved.
Don't try to find any logical explanation for this. There isn't any.
This is where the show lost me, it was such a leap to have Dany just torch innocent people for no reason and not just Cersei. People defending it dont understand that the people Dany used to kill were people with power never innocent bystanders. I want defenders to name me one time where she DELIBERATELY killed innocents to justify what happens in this episode.