My history with FS Labs is almost 300€ on P3D and FSX. They charged for all the updates, Winglets, led lights, EFB, new textures... if they are thinking of doing the same here, no problem, piracy is just around the corner... And that's what they were doing, hacking customers' computers.
so do many other devs bud. This is nothing out of the ordinary And the then the much bigger problem: endorsing piracy when YOU feel things are too expensive. You already probable pirate anyway. Just because YOU fell it is expensive, gives you ABSOLUTELY NO right to piracy IT you cannot afford it, then you don't use it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. You have no right to a product So, if a car that you want is too expensive by your cheapskate standards, does it mean that you need to go to steal it because it is too expensive IT IS SIMMERS LIKE YOU WHO PIRATE that made them do what they did. All of this outrage and offence to FSLABS is BS especially from a bunch of piracy advocates like you because their pocket money is not enough and you think you have a right to things that should be paid for. You are disgusting and dishonest and damage DEVs hard work. SHAME
AND so should any simmers who steals products. And there are hordes of them but let me get it. Simmers have a right to steal if they feel hard done by!!!!!!!!!!!! And you probably have never spent a fortune on a hight end product, only to have it stolen Get some perspective before commenting.
@@willycanuck I'm going to be unfortunately that guy and tell you, that I work with GDPR and other legislations for years. So no, this has nothing to do with GDPR.
@@MesHMaster2kthere is a floppy disk hidden on the floor inside the fenix cockpit with test.exe written on it. In the area below the coat hangers marked as stowage for landing gear pins.
I wouldn't install this A321 if I was given it free. Fenix is a great group of guys who already created an A32x. There is zero reason to purchase this.
Flight model is another reason especially during flare where its floaty as hell and not realistic. just for better flare behaviour, i'll buy the fslabs
Old saying goes, the past is the past. Sadly cannot ignore the past here, what they done was outright wrong! I’d much rather donate my money to the FBW team
Coming from X-Plane sim, I was unaware of the back story of FSLabs apart from being aware the their addons for P3D/FSX were very expensive. This video has now made me aware of their reputation and not to not touch them with a barge pole. Thanks !
Two wrongs don't make a right. Them collecting passwords, even if it was for pirated software users isn't excusable. They should have just made their software more difficult to pirate, instead of risking all of their customers password data. I'm going to keep supporting Fenix, who doesn't place malware on my computer. I don't know about you, but besides it being also morally right, I don't pirate software so I don't get my computer exposed to malware; not the other way around.
There’s nothing morally right about not pirating software. It’s just a question of legality or a value you adhere to, which is fine. Companies as small as FSLabs and as large as Netflix and Microsoft have a history of deceiving and screwing over paying customers. Consumer laws and property rights are greatly skewed in their favor, not yours. Use what you want to use on your own terms, especially in these days of pseudo ownership, and financially support ethical companies who treat customers fairly and decently.
Very happy to see you cover this, its important people are made aware before making a purchase. I wont be spending my money on anything they come out with even if its the best thing ever. They did something that should've sunk their company with criminal charges involved.
I owned all of FS Labs products for FSX and P3D. Their addons are absolutely top-notch but they are a gang of disreputable charlatans and they don't deserve a penny of your hard-earned. Fenix are a breath of fresh air and, even if FS Labs product turns out to be better, I'll be sticking with Fenix. FS Labs won't see another penny from me and I'd strongly suggest the flightsim community turns their back on them and treats them with the same disdain FS Labs treated their customers with.
Gavin, loved your detailed recap of the FSLabs incident. In fact you reminded me of facts I completely forgot about. Curious though and wish you had touched on this. Are the same people who worked for FSLabs when this incident happened, still involved/employed with FSLabs today? I feel the community should be armed with that info so they can make an informed choice to do business with FSLabs in the future.
This! If anyone who supported or was in charge of that criminal behavior is still there (of course not some poor support person who hated the thing but didn't want to lose their job) then it's just a confirmation for them that there's no consequence for what they did.
Ah, Lefteris Kalamaras. He left PMDG and if I remember correctly i suddenly had to pay his new company FSLabs £100 (a lot in 2008!) for a bit of software to allow my home cockpit peripherals to interact with the 737 again. RIP off merchant.
blackbox 711 just did a stream with their new a321 and clearly stated the fslabs is a more finished and realistic product that the fenix (that is only half built on top an existing simulation). And pilots you can listen to. Not simmers who basically know nothing about aviation
@@pieterduplessis6906 he said two main things tho, one MEL which is nice to have, but not a requirement and something not everyone will be using, alongside the extra CBs, and the other was flare behaviour being better, which at the end is mostly up to a patch than general fixes. The main selling points of the fslabs a321 is for people that truly want a MEL, or don't want to spend over 100usd for an A321.
Not a chance. I’m staying loyal to reputable devs (FENIX, PMDG, ToLiss ETC) the past usually has a horrible way of repeating itself and I’m not taking the risk
And simmers have pirated and will do it again. So, you should not touch yourself either Don't complain about malware when simmers steal thousands of addons each day Maybe go and build a hight level aircraft and see WHAT YOU DO WHEN SIMMERS STEAL IT What do they say again of glass houses ??????
I've been flight simming since SubLogic Flight Simulator, and love seeing how far things have come, and am always excited to see how developers can push the boundries of realism in a desktop sim. However I'm also an IT professional, and security is one of my responsibilities. With that in mind FSLabs has a proven track record as a bad actor. There is no justification for them installing malware on customers PCs end of story. Doing so is flat out illegal in most places. Trying to suppress and/or acquire the PII of people who called them out for it is just beyond the pale. I might consider checking out their product if and only if the people responsible for that fiasco are no longer with the company, the product lives up to their previous reputation, it is fairly priced, and a third party has tested it extensively to ensure that it does not contain any malware of any kind. Trust, once lost, is very difficult to regain. They have an awful lot of work to do.
I'm not so much worried about the malware issue as I'm sure they're not stupid enough to try something like that again. For me it's more a case of why, when we already have the whole A320 family in hi-fidelity from Fenix. I think it would have to be a pretty major USP for existing Fenix customers to make the switch. They might get new customers who don't already have the Fenix though, if the pricing is right.
They were though. Their CEO has pulled the malware off when he was a dev for the PMDG MD-11 which is why he got kicked out there and which is why the PMDG MD-11 was pulled from sale. Not only does the man obviously have zero remorse but probably no other individual has done as much damage to the community as he has.
What they did is not only unethical - in many regions it's illegal. They put their customers at risk for the sake of chasing lost income. They are very lucky that they are not in prison or have been sued out of existence.
We do NOT have ANY proper Airbus in MSFS, rest assured. That is including Fenix, which is better than the rest of the MSFS garbage. The FSLabs pretty much of a virtual training device. Fenix System behavior, hydraulics etc.. does not come anywhere near... and that's only where I begin...
10 днів тому+1
@@vasiliosgrekousis8192 Fenix is based on ProSim-AR. Do you have a detailed comparison between the two? Would love to hear more about.
Glad someone remembers that. It would try to break your entire flight simulator install by deleting core files if it believed the aircraft was pirated.
I had the FSLabs for P3D. It was a hog on performance and then the malware issue lead me to uninstall it. I’ll definitely pass on this A321. The Fenix is plenty good and I’d consider it study level enough for me, someone who’s been simming for 20 years.
Thanks for sharing the story. I took a hiatus with Flightsim between 2004 and 2020, and so missed that whole episode. I am a reasonable person and am willing to forgive people for past mistakes, but this story really raises alarm bells for me. If the only issue was the test.exe thing, and they then apologised and didn't do anything dodgy again, I would be right there with you in "the past is in the past", but to then go and add in system files and then start trying to sue people for libel and having the gall to ask for people's personal information which was the WHOLE REASON why they were in this mess in the first place, makes me think that they are not remorseful and don't think they did anything wrong. So why would I trust a company like that? Did they ever issue an apology? Did they ever say "we are sorry, we won't do that again"? If not, then I have no idea why you would trust them, especially if it's still run by the same people (which it sounds like it is).
Hi Gavin, great details ! You forgot to mention that they had also stolen parts of Aerosoft’s A320 cockpit model before removing them and going back to their old model and re iterating a new version months later after developing their own
I loved flying the A320x in p3d , felt so realistic and very complex. Shame they weren’t more honest. They let greed override common sense. Thanks for the great video Gav , I didn’t know it was this crazy.
I just feel like the market is being saturated with Airbus aircraft. Honestly, enough with airbuses already. We need variety now. Let's see more boeings! Where is the 767, 747-400, 737 classic and the 100's of other airliners. I have the sneaky suspicion that the airbus systems are simply easy to model so everyone and his dog will have a go at it, I mean what other reason is there for the Airbus craze
Bluebird simulations are making the 757 and 767 which I am confident will be tough competition for other Boeing devs. I follow them closely so I can say it will be worth the wait
@@Colorado_Ronin It will come out. One thing I know for sure is quality and high level simulations takes time to make and as someone that understands development a little bit I can have some patience for them. They have been very transparent with us as to what is going on. I remember when they first got introduced they were aiming to be a simple point A to B product with a little extra but they have shifted that original aim for something more serious something competitive to the likes of Fenix level of quality and has expressed that due to that decision the entire code base was rewritten and code to me takes the longest to make. They’re progressing well so I am confident and will be a day one customer
I agree the market is approaching saturation, however there still isn't a better standard (non-LR) A321 Neo than the LatinVFR, and that is basically the best selling plane in the world IRL and won't be too long before it starts to become the most common plane in the skies. It's the 21 Neo that I'm most interested in.
I never had P3D.I had FSLabs A320X for FSX and then switched to MSFS2020.And i only fly Arbus planes.No Fenix for me, only FBW and Headwind products.Waiting years for FSLabs so yes i will buy this airplane.And i don't think A320 family is saturated.Just my opinion.
Simple thoughts really: there was -and is - one person who is responsible, not only for the malware - but more importantly - for the legal threats towards websites and users. That person is Lefteris, the CEO. He still occupies the position, and he never apologised for the hostile stance and bad practice - to anyone. Since that never took place, I am having a hard time imagining buying anything from them ever again. So do many other of their potential customers. Making mistakes and doing terrible bully moves is bad on its own, but not owning them and not apologising signs the sentence. It is childish, drama-inducing and unprofessional. So for me - no FSL products until Lefteris does something. Something sincere and very public.
Funny you say that. The way Mister Kalamaras behaved at the forums and his rudenes to customers if you disagree or had a problem with their product made me turn away from FSLAbs. It was always your problem , not theirs. Nevertheless, It was for that time an amazing airbus. But if I have to pay a topprice, I wanted a great and decent support from the developers too.
@@ericvandorp That is recognisable, although the only product I owned from them was the FS2004 Concorde (and they used to distribute via Flight1, which was a fairly trusted publisher at the time). I remember needing support maybe once, but it was long ago and the interaction was OK. There is another developer who are, I believe, genuinely good people - but they have a similar problem with user communication. I've had to really think thrice before buying even a single product from them. But I think we are on the same page that until there is a visible, public apology from Lefteris for being such a ____, it is hard to imagine doing any business with him or FSL.
@@ericvandorp At the minimum you don't want malicious software to be installed onto your machine, you don't want to be presumed to be a thief, and you do deserve to be treated with dignity. It doesn't seem FSL are open to reconciliation with their target audience.
Hi. Thanks for the informative video. Strange effects going on in your video. For example, at 15:42, what are those reflections/shadows? It looks like the wings are transparent, or are you flying under a huge mothership? Some of the clouds are over & under the wing.
On a purely Flight Sim basis, I am mostly excited for their A321neo. As much as I enjoyed their P3D products, there is really no need for me to shell out for another A321ceo. On an ethics level, I want to give them the benefit of the doubt that they have learned from the past issues. I am usually not a first adapter when it comes to downloading addons, so I'll let the more astute FS community members do a malware scan for me
Look a rocky start is pretty common time repairs wounds I’ve had fs labs since they came out and will be buying the entire fleet I’ve had toliss fenix and they are really good but fs labs take the level one step further so just because someone had a rocky past dosent mean you put them down they learnt there lesson and fixed it and apoligied for it and time repaired the wounds so give them a second chance
The prices they charged were shocking so I can’t help but imagine a bit of projection in their paranoia about piracy (to the point they used malware to fight it).
i was a huge fan of FSL back in P3D , to me they could'nt do wrong, even with there well known problem. just dont see me getting another 321 in MSFS when i have the fenix. Wished they would have done a high level 330/350 then i would have been very very interested
Yea no thanks, I wont be supporting such a development team with shady ethics. They have a good product but I wont be purchasing something I already have (the fenix a320 series) twice. I prefer my test.exe as a running gag in the cockpit and not a malicious file in the addon directory.
For me there are too many red flags to buy any FSLabs product, especially since Fenix already does an exceptional job and is also cheap for what they offer. Fenix has updated the products for free with the Block V2, the addition of the Sharklets or the MSFS2024 compatibility. Besides, no matter how good FSLabs products are, there can't be such a big difference with Fenix to buy it.
I had all the products from FS Labs and they were very good but they price gouged across the board. You even had to pay for the Interface just to use Skalarki hardware products. I love Fenix, not only for their products and innovation, but also for how they operate. Perfect comms which are open and transparent and they generally over deliver on their products and are quick to address issues post release. The MEL/Tech Log is innovative from FS Labs but I'm not in the least bit enticed to start handing over money for it
They probably put a lot into the ceo it was probably being made before fenix was, so i get why they may have made a CEO but i do hope if they make the whole a320 family they just do neos.Though this situation definatly isnt acceptable to do to anyone.
I’ve flown P3D A320 by FSLabs and it was the really best airbus I’ve flown. The pre-release version seems to have better handling specially within the flare and a lot of new features Fenix do not have.. So yes I will buy it for sure and it will be without doubt the best A321 available. One more thing, they release it for msfs2020 simply because msfs2024 is too young to be a stable and steady platform for a Study level aircraft.
Nah. Lefteris didn't learn anything, he did this at PMDG with the MD-11 which resulted in him getting the boot, then continued doing it at his own new company FSLabs until it reached mainstream media and he was forced to stop it. I wouldn't trust this guy to tell me the time of day, he thinks he's special and can do whatever he wants, no one dare to criticize him. No, the new A321 probably won't have malware in it. Thats not because he's such a great and remorseful person, but rather because everyone is warned this time
I like to use Toliss aircraft for the NEO’s and FENIX for the CEO’s. Even if fs labs hadn’t had their history, I’m not sure I would buy from them. I can’t see myself using anything but the FENIX. I can’t see how anything can match its level of detail and I’ve gotten used to the aircraft. I’m sure that anything that fslabs does better will be met by FENIX and they will still continue to provide a great product. It would be weird to have an A319 and A230 by one developer and an A321 by another.
R.e the new A321 CEO. No. When I go for a flight, I don't think 'I'll be flying the Fenix today' and 'tomorrow I'll fly the FSLabs' - I think 'I'm going to fly an A321'. Fenix has succesfully provided an extremely well made A321 CEO which fits the bill perfectly. I do not view any reason for yet another high quality one in my library, both of which aiming to be the exact same plane. I get that there will be differences, that is to be expected, but not anything I find significant enough to make purchasing a near identical aircraft of such cost worth it. Fenix themselves have also built a fantastic reputation now. I am looking at the NEO however, soley because the closest well made is the A321LR, and even then it is not great being a default aircraft. The sounds in particular. I however do not disregard the history of FSLabs here.
I'm surprised they decided to go in this direction with MSFS. I think they will mostly cater to the P3D crowd to bring them over, to the existing ones which haven't gone onboard the Fenix, and to the V1-Simulations type of Pilots / UA-camrs. That, plus the past controversy will be making for an interesting journey. For most simmers, even those wanting authenticity - I don't think FSL will bring significantly more than Fenix which will make it worth the extra purchase except for those truly wanting to study the aircraft and fly it nearly exclusively. Now, if they did an A330 I can guarantee that would have been successful - then they would have an advantage over INIbuilds and Aerosoft. I've always found wear-tear and MEL type of functions attractive on paper, but not practice because we spend so much time flying many different planes. I already have the Fenix 321 and no matter how much I'd love to see the FSL, I can't justify the cost.
You should talk about Blackbox formally know as Phoenix simulation Software PSS and their past checkered history of ripping people off ,leopards don’t change their spots they might change their name but still have the spots
Well we was supposed to be getting the QW 787 for MSFS2020 but unfortunately we never heard anything back from them ever again. Which to me quality wings probably went bankruptcy. It’s a shame because Quality Wings 787 was supposed to come to Microsoft Flight Simulator 2020 but nothing happened
The past is not good at all. Not too mention if this is a P3D port, which some have suggested it is, why aren't they offering a discount? The IFLY 737 max was even discounted for P3D users. With their reputation as it stands, I am not convinced that it isn't a P3D port and as others have mentioned we have a phenomenal A321 from FENIX for MSFS and MSFS 2024 along with the A319 and the A320.
If you already have the systems simulation coded in C++ why would you recode them from scratch for a different platform? FSLabs don't do discounts, but developers don't usually provide discounts like that.
For me it is strange that they announced their A321 for MSFS 2020 shotly before the release of MSFS 2024. Since the current MSFS 2024 bugs will be ironed out in the not so far future, FS Labs will be sitting on just one more A321 for a sim eventually only a small minority will be continue tu use.
I used their products in P3D, great planes, very realistic. Now, in MSFS world there's already Fenix offering very robust models for the average, even though for the not-so-average, simmers. And let's face it, it must be a very small fraction of simmers who are interested in very advanced things like failures etc. I gather 95% or so must be very satisfied to fly from A to B in a realistic manner, online or offline, for a virtual airline or not. So, I don't really get how FSLabs could penetrate today's market. I don't see myself buying FSLabs A321ceo, unless it comes with so much more realism in the flight model that would make Fenix seem like a toy. My average needs are more than satisfied with Fenix. I would seriously consider an A321neo though, for the sole reason of being able to simulate flights from various VA's. Of course it would have to be at a reasonable price, and performing well. Oh, and we forgot MSFS 2024. Why would anyone like to keep hanging on 2020 because of an add-on running exclusively there?
I did not know any of this about FS Labs but thanks for bringing this information of their crooked behavior to our attention. It seems they are the pirates; FS Labs has been crossed off my list and there are too many AIRBUS aircraft already. I will continue supporting FlyBywire. As someone already said: two wrongs don't make a right but three rights make a left.
99% of flight simmers don't even use 10% of whatever the Fenix (or Toliss in X-Plane land) Airbus planes have to offer. There really is no need for yet another A320 family member if all you do is fly from A to B according to standard procedures. So I doubt it will be profitable for fslabs to launch this in the near future, even if it is better at simulating the rarest failures. Not many people will need it, maybe just the few that are training to fly the real thing. Everyone else will already have gotten a good (enough) version of the A320 family. And let's not forget about the malware history of course. The flight sim community is not that large that people will have forgotten about that one.
Absolute "no-go" for me, I'm affraid. Damage was done a long time ago. Shame, because I bought their A320 family for P3D and it was extremely good and to be honest, I'd have bought their Concorde for MSFS if that had come out. But I have serious trust issues with FSL which means I just cannot justify investing my hard earned cash into their company ever again..... Fenix has shown the way forward for me with the A320 family: first rate quality at a reasonable price, with no dodgy practices attached.....
For everything I have learned here, I think fear to by anything from them. It´'s not just the malware. The price counts too. Charging for evrything is not correct. I buy a mod for 100 USD and, in the end, it will cost me 300 USD. I have the Fenix (and it is very good).
Really dont see a reason to buy another a321, especially not from a developer with a reputation like this. Fenix A321 is phenomenal, we also have the a321 in fs2024.
Old school simmer here. Regardless of the pass, Fsimlabs A320 was a fantastic addon for P3D, even superior than Fenix. Note: Fenix is an amazing addon, and textures are better, but this one is not far behind.
Agreed, I've been long around as well since the day they released the Airbus X and Concorde-X. FSLabs had great times for me for their quality of addons back in the day. I really do hope they don't fall for the same fatal error again for msfs like they did in the past.
I have good memories of the FSLabs but compared to the Fenix, they don't have much that the Fenix doesn't. Fenix has better systems, modeling, and texturing. I like the few features FSlabs has brought to the sim, but I more looking forward to their NEO since Fenix said they weren't planning on a NEO in the future.
This is probably the worst video you’ve ever made. “It’s all in the past” is nonsense. The gall it took to do what they did was off the charts. Never forgive such nonsense. Zero justification.
I think the biggest issue, besides intentionally putting malware on users' computers, is that the CEO of FsLab has never released a formal public apology. If they had decided to sit down with their community and take responsibility for their mistake, I don't think the backlash would be as strong as it is today. Instead, they decided to silence the community by taking legal action. To be honest, this level of arrogance is alarming and scary.
You are avoiding the elephant in the room. An A321 CEO for MSFS2020? We have the Fenix, we have MSFS2024, and Fenix supports MSFS2024. From the streams, I am not seeing more than 100 ~ 200 people watching both FlyBoy and BlackBox. I am afraid to say it, but this product is dead. Maybe FSLabs have their saving grace with the Concord though. We'll have to wait and see if it is released.
you're missing the whole point of the video, he said "TO DISCUSS THE HISTORY", and also maybe you should stop for a second and think. FsLabs has been working on msfs since msfs came out they wanted to bring the a330 first but changed to the a321 as it was the last p3d aircraft they released. Since there is an already saturated ceo market they ar doing a neo which is not saturated and the deafult ini builds neo dont cut it for me, i dont like the a320 fam of ini builds.
They did wrong. But, imagine you have a dream, and the dream is making flight sim addons. You get a crew together to make the best addon flight simmers ever seen. You start selling it and realize everybody loves it but low sales. Only a few would buy it, many people would be downloading a pirated version. What FSLabs didn't know was that PMDG, IFLY etc were on the same boat, and they didn't take mesures the same way, they did not go Postal on consumers. I wouldn't want anyone using my software free, would you? Even so, it was not accetable and still isn't.
Except the CEO of FSLabs was also working for PMDG at one point, a key part of their FS9 747-400 and especially MD-11 products, before leaving to form FSLabs. And yes, the PMDG MD-11 did have some rather dubious capabilities in terms of removing files from your PC to damage your FS install as an anti-piracy measure. So we're not talking coincidences, we're talking patterns.
FS Labs are far too late to the party and Fenix have held the bar high enough that only a fantastic USP would make anyone even consider getting a second high fidelity A321CEO from FSLabs. What on earth possessed them to start out with a CEO. I believe that a NEO is going to follow in the future but why they haven't concentrated on that first is beyond me. It would fill the gap between the Fenix CEO family and the FBW A320NEO. Hopefully they are at least going to include the PW1100G engine option as well.
Let bygones be bygones. I will not buy the FSLABS because I already have the Fenix package. But I think the community needs to give them some slack. I'm sure they've learned their lesson.
I presume you mean slack, I respectably disagree, if it is the same people why would you. Not only was it illegal and disrespectful to said community to infect customers PCs with malware but downright outrageous to threaten legal action to try to cover their tracks and sue people for complaining.
I will not be buying their products. The shady programs and scripts, but also their shady tactics to suppress negative post etc. Ones I loose trust, thats it for me. And I spend alot of money gaming, sims and gear.
If there were guarantees that there are no more shenanigans from them AND if it had been a NEO, I may have considered it but as we have a CEO from Fenix, I’ll not be buying this.
I’m sorry but the market is not saturated with Airbus high fidelity add-ons the like of which FSL make. Fenix is nice but still has a lot of weaknesses, and there is no other Airbus in MSFS that even comes close to that.
I could care less about the "fidelity" of any FS Labs product. They actually have some neck still trading under that name. The Fenix Airbus fleet is more than adequate for the purposes of simming, so there's ZERO chance I'll be buying anything from FS Labs, irrespective of their awful business practices, which may or may not be in the past - who would ever take that chance...
Honestly, not even for free. 1st of all: Who needs this plane when there is a Fenix out there, and 2nd why installing risky software when there is a Fenix out there :)
Not such a big deal to me. At the end of the day….its all about the quality and value to me. Installing software to catch a thief is no biggie. We are so vulnerable in our everyday lives already…do we go live off the grid in the woods?
They will fail miserably. Why on earth would anybody buy a single A321CFM when for the same price I assume you can get almost the whole A320 family from Fenix, which is also a study-level addon.
It's not even a loyalty thing or being cautious with cybersecurity. If you're considering buying the FSL A321 you're really bad at making financial decisions.
After everything they were charging and all the money they made, and listening to this story, I think they really feel entitled to do anything they can to catch piracy. I don’t trust them and will continue to provide support to Fenix. FSLabs should have realised that there hegemony had the days numbered and now it’s too late. Their empire is over. Maybe if they would have had a different attitude and show respect to their customers, after the hundreds of $€£ they spent, they could still be in the market.
I own the Fenix and I like it a lot. I remember this Malware era and it was blown way out of proportion because this community loves drama and grudges. I actually use the FSLabs A320 too. I've owned it since 2018. It was considered the most Indepth A320 available until recently, and in some ways still superior to the Fenix at this moment in some ways. Certain non-normal systems are done with more accuracy, it has the newer Honeywell MCDU. They're both great simulations of the A320. But the newbies are dismissing something they don't understand. You don't know what you don't know. Like you said, you're going to buy it, people commenting are going to buy it, streamers will stream it, and competition is good. It will push Fenix to improve and likewise the FSLabs to further push the boundaries.
Why would anyone trust this company to install anything on their PC (unless that PC had absolutely nothing sensitive on it)?? Good luck to them with an expensive addon in a saturated market. Plus not even supported in fs2024 "When people show you who they are, believe them the first time" applies.
If you've never flown it you do not know what you're missing - I was so disappointed with the Fenix coming straight from P3D - literally style over content, it looks pretty but the flight model and handling in the air and on the ground was no match for the FSLabs buses, and I couldn't land the damned thing. If you want the most realistic home flying experience, FSLabs will deliver.
I have been enjoying flight simulation from the start. I learned to fly the Airbus with FSL in P3D. Never heard about the two issues spoke of here and never had any problems too big to handle. I will buy the new product. They provided great manuals too, something Fenix doesn't do. I have and enjoy Fenix too and PMDG and some of the rest. I suspect no more bad moves by them and if there are, it will be found. One thing all that develop anything have to know and understand is that we customers are a lot smarter and have more tools then ever. And of course you have companies that like to look for things to question. So based on their past products, I will give it a shot.
Of course... considering the system depth and behaviors from Prepar3D... I do not see that in MSFS yet, even via the Fenix. Stuff I'm noticing in terms of behaviors from Flabs compared to Fenix are quite long to enumerate. I look forward to see the entire FSLabs A3XX in the future!
I would not touch or buy any fslabs products either due to this , wont touch softwares from companies with a criminal history that employs such metods as including trojans to their purchasing customers , let alone the security risks to any system even if you obtained legaly
My history with FS Labs is almost 300€ on P3D and FSX. They charged for all the updates, Winglets, led lights, EFB, new textures... if they are thinking of doing the same here, no problem, piracy is just around the corner... And that's what they were doing, hacking customers' computers.
so do many other devs bud. This is nothing out of the ordinary
And the then the much bigger problem: endorsing piracy when YOU feel things are too expensive. You already probable pirate anyway. Just because YOU fell it is expensive, gives you ABSOLUTELY NO right to piracy
IT you cannot afford it, then you don't use it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. You have no right to a product
So, if a car that you want is too expensive by your cheapskate standards, does it mean that you need to go to steal it because it is too expensive
IT IS SIMMERS LIKE YOU WHO PIRATE that made them do what they did. All of this outrage and offence to FSLABS is BS
especially from a bunch of piracy advocates like you because their pocket money is not enough and you think you have a right to things that should be paid for. You are disgusting and dishonest and damage DEVs hard work. SHAME
Get your PC infected, then get sued for daring to leave a reddit comment about it! FSLabs should have faced GDPR fines and criminal charges.
Trust me. I’m studying A-Level computer science and couldn’t agree more
It seems that you should study GDPR first lol
AND so should any simmers who steals products. And there are hordes of them
but let me get it. Simmers have a right to steal if they feel hard done by!!!!!!!!!!!!
And you probably have never spent a fortune on a hight end product, only to have it stolen
Get some perspective before commenting.
@@johny5400 His interpretation is correct.
@@willycanuck I'm going to be unfortunately that guy and tell you, that I work with GDPR and other legislations for years. So no, this has nothing to do with GDPR.
Now I understand the "Easter Egg" inside the Fenix A320!! LOL
Wait can you explain this? Sounds fun!
@ ua-cam.com/video/Q4tZ75ORvEY/v-deo.htmlsi=7D50oPJO_oRq7YSq
@@MesHMaster2kthere is a floppy disk hidden on the floor inside the fenix cockpit with test.exe written on it. In the area below the coat hangers marked as stowage for landing gear pins.
They included a test.exe 😂
As a diskette hidden in the cockpit 😅 test exe was the binary containig the hidden malware/Trojan in fslabs
I wouldn't install this A321 if I was given it free. Fenix is a great group of guys who already created an A32x. There is zero reason to purchase this.
Flight model is another reason especially during flare where its floaty as hell and not realistic. just for better flare behaviour, i'll buy the fslabs
the A321 neo is other thing
@@CMBelite-FRwhat you know about flight dynamics? have you watch V1 videos?
@ Iv e watched fslabs msfs 2020 videos
Old saying goes, the past is the past. Sadly cannot ignore the past here, what they done was outright wrong! I’d much rather donate my money to the FBW team
Also another saying says fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me. The FSLabs boss has pulled this before on the PMDG MD-11.
Coming from X-Plane sim, I was unaware of the back story of FSLabs apart from being aware the their addons for P3D/FSX were very expensive. This video has now made me aware of their reputation and not to not touch them with a barge pole. Thanks !
Well, you'll then miss out the REAL Airbus simulation you would ever see. Paranoia is a sad limiter.
Two wrongs don't make a right. Them collecting passwords, even if it was for pirated software users isn't excusable. They should have just made their software more difficult to pirate, instead of risking all of their customers password data. I'm going to keep supporting Fenix, who doesn't place malware on my computer.
I don't know about you, but besides it being also morally right, I don't pirate software so I don't get my computer exposed to malware; not the other way around.
There’s nothing morally right about not pirating software. It’s just a question of legality or a value you adhere to, which is fine.
Companies as small as FSLabs and as large as Netflix and Microsoft have a history of deceiving and screwing over paying customers. Consumer laws and property rights are greatly skewed in their favor, not yours.
Use what you want to use on your own terms, especially in these days of pseudo ownership, and financially support ethical companies who treat customers fairly and decently.
not one or two, but three wrongs lmao, lefteris MD-11 when he was the head dev in pmdg md-11 was also filled with malware
Very happy to see you cover this, its important people are made aware before making a purchase.
I wont be spending my money on anything they come out with even if its the best thing ever. They did something that should've sunk their company with criminal charges involved.
Completely agree, the fact they are allowed to still trade is disgraceful.
I owned all of FS Labs products for FSX and P3D. Their addons are absolutely top-notch but they are a gang of disreputable charlatans and they don't deserve a penny of your hard-earned. Fenix are a breath of fresh air and, even if FS Labs product turns out to be better, I'll be sticking with Fenix. FS Labs won't see another penny from me and I'd strongly suggest the flightsim community turns their back on them and treats them with the same disdain FS Labs treated their customers with.
Gavin, loved your detailed recap of the FSLabs incident. In fact you reminded me of facts I completely forgot about. Curious though and wish you had touched on this. Are the same people who worked for FSLabs when this incident happened, still involved/employed with FSLabs today? I feel the community should be armed with that info so they can make an informed choice to do business with FSLabs in the future.
This! If anyone who supported or was in charge of that criminal behavior is still there (of course not some poor support person who hated the thing but didn't want to lose their job) then it's just a confirmation for them that there's no consequence for what they did.
you also forget about Lefterias at PMDG with the MD-11 when it used to delete the whole fsx folder if it suspected it was pirated.
Ah, Lefteris Kalamaras. He left PMDG and if I remember correctly i suddenly had to pay his new company FSLabs £100 (a lot in 2008!) for a bit of software to allow my home cockpit peripherals to interact with the 737 again. RIP off merchant.
Because of what they did I will never buy from them again...........................
Not a chance. Fenix all the way.
fslabs p3d >= fenix > fslabs msfs
@@quezsy9750 Irrelevant isn't it?
@@quezsy9750 lmao
blackbox 711 just did a stream with their new a321 and clearly stated the fslabs is a more finished and realistic product that the fenix (that is only half built on top an existing simulation). And pilots you can listen to. Not simmers who basically know nothing about aviation
@@pieterduplessis6906 he said two main things tho, one MEL which is nice to have, but not a requirement and something not everyone will be using, alongside the extra CBs, and the other was flare behaviour being better, which at the end is mostly up to a patch than general fixes.
The main selling points of the fslabs a321 is for people that truly want a MEL, or don't want to spend over 100usd for an A321.
Not a chance. I’m staying loyal to reputable devs (FENIX, PMDG, ToLiss ETC) the past usually has a horrible way of repeating itself and I’m not taking the risk
Exactly, I feel the same way, the Fenix is probably much better anyways, especially in texturing.
@@Shah84838also Fenix devs have said that they will implement many features that the Fslabs have and Fenix doesn’t yet.
Including PMDG as a reputable dev is a bit far-fetched though...
@@xeels2708 well, I agree. I wrote that comment quickly. Disregard PMDG as a reputable dev🤣👍
@@Shah84838Don’t fool yourself, the Fenix may look prettier but systems depth, not a chance.
But yeah, probably not risking it either lol.
Would not touch them, they have done it once, they will do it again.
And simmers have pirated and will do it again. So, you should not touch yourself either
Don't complain about malware when simmers steal thousands of addons each day
Maybe go and build a hight level aircraft and see WHAT YOU DO WHEN SIMMERS STEAL IT
What do they say again of glass houses ??????
And here we have a perfect human lol
Funnily enough, the guy had done it 3 times, not just once
Y'all too soft. FSLabs are the Kings of the FS World. Everythig is toys compared to FSLabs.
@@ezkampfwhat a moronic comment, there are quite a few of who aren't stealing other people's stuff, yes
Thank you for warning Gavin :) There is no way I'm buying anything from FSLabs. I value my privacy too high to risk it.
and yet you are on social media daily. You might want to hide in a cave in 2024 if you want privacy
I've been flight simming since SubLogic Flight Simulator, and love seeing how far things have come, and am always excited to see how developers can push the boundries of realism in a desktop sim. However I'm also an IT professional, and security is one of my responsibilities. With that in mind FSLabs has a proven track record as a bad actor. There is no justification for them installing malware on customers PCs end of story. Doing so is flat out illegal in most places. Trying to suppress and/or acquire the PII of people who called them out for it is just beyond the pale. I might consider checking out their product if and only if the people responsible for that fiasco are no longer with the company, the product lives up to their previous reputation, it is fairly priced, and a third party has tested it extensively to ensure that it does not contain any malware of any kind. Trust, once lost, is very difficult to regain. They have an awful lot of work to do.
I'm not so much worried about the malware issue as I'm sure they're not stupid enough to try something like that again. For me it's more a case of why, when we already have the whole A320 family in hi-fidelity from Fenix. I think it would have to be a pretty major USP for existing Fenix customers to make the switch. They might get new customers who don't already have the Fenix though, if the pricing is right.
Their A321NEO seems more reasonable, as Fenix said they won’t touch the NEOs at ALL.
@@mraviatorboii2510really? They are loosing market. Maybe they want to prioritise other products
They were though. Their CEO has pulled the malware off when he was a dev for the PMDG MD-11 which is why he got kicked out there and which is why the PMDG MD-11 was pulled from sale. Not only does the man obviously have zero remorse but probably no other individual has done as much damage to the community as he has.
@@herrhornbuckele5227 Wow. I wasn't aware of that, thanks for the info. Where has this come from? I'd like to do a bit more reading.
What they did is not only unethical - in many regions it's illegal. They put their customers at risk for the sake of chasing lost income. They are very lucky that they are not in prison or have been sued out of existence.
Glad you presented this history. It is important for newcomers to know.
Would buy their Concorde. Heaven only knows why they are bringing the thousandth Airbus for the MSFS instead.
They are doing concorde too as far as i understand
We do NOT have ANY proper Airbus in MSFS, rest assured. That is including Fenix, which is better than the rest of the MSFS garbage. The FSLabs pretty much of a virtual training device. Fenix System behavior, hydraulics etc.. does not come anywhere near... and that's only where I begin...
@@vasiliosgrekousis8192 Fenix is based on ProSim-AR. Do you have a detailed comparison between the two? Would love to hear more about.
It was also a certain someone from FSLabs who included malware into the PMDG MD-11 back in the day.
Glad someone remembers that. It would try to break your entire flight simulator install by deleting core files if it believed the aircraft was pirated.
I had the FSLabs for P3D. It was a hog on performance and then the malware issue lead me to uninstall it. I’ll definitely pass on this A321. The Fenix is plenty good and I’d consider it study level enough for me, someone who’s been simming for 20 years.
Thanks for sharing the story. I took a hiatus with Flightsim between 2004 and 2020, and so missed that whole episode. I am a reasonable person and am willing to forgive people for past mistakes, but this story really raises alarm bells for me. If the only issue was the test.exe thing, and they then apologised and didn't do anything dodgy again, I would be right there with you in "the past is in the past", but to then go and add in system files and then start trying to sue people for libel and having the gall to ask for people's personal information which was the WHOLE REASON why they were in this mess in the first place, makes me think that they are not remorseful and don't think they did anything wrong. So why would I trust a company like that? Did they ever issue an apology? Did they ever say "we are sorry, we won't do that again"? If not, then I have no idea why you would trust them, especially if it's still run by the same people (which it sounds like it is).
Hi Gavin, great details ! You forgot to mention that they had also stolen parts of Aerosoft’s A320 cockpit model before removing them and going back to their old model and re iterating a new version months later after developing their own
I loved flying the A320x in p3d , felt so realistic and very complex. Shame they weren’t more honest. They let greed override common sense. Thanks for the great video Gav , I didn’t know it was this crazy.
Given their history with malware - I won’t touch their products with a barge pole.
I wonder if this product will be the breaking of FSLabs?
Should have redone Concorde. Plenty of airbus options available
I just feel like the market is being saturated with Airbus aircraft. Honestly, enough with airbuses already. We need variety now. Let's see more boeings! Where is the 767, 747-400, 737 classic and the 100's of other airliners. I have the sneaky suspicion that the airbus systems are simply easy to model so everyone and his dog will have a go at it, I mean what other reason is there for the Airbus craze
Bluebird simulations are making the 757 and 767 which I am confident will be tough competition for other Boeing devs. I follow them closely so I can say it will be worth the wait
@@jordank98They’ve been working on it for years. I’ll be surprised if it actually comes out
@@Colorado_Ronin It will come out. One thing I know for sure is quality and high level simulations takes time to make and as someone that understands development a little bit I can have some patience for them. They have been very transparent with us as to what is going on. I remember when they first got introduced they were aiming to be a simple point A to B product with a little extra but they have shifted that original aim for something more serious something competitive to the likes of Fenix level of quality and has expressed that due to that decision the entire code base was rewritten and code to me takes the longest to make. They’re progressing well so I am confident and will be a day one customer
@@jordank98 Also they are making the 787
I agree the market is approaching saturation, however there still isn't a better standard (non-LR) A321 Neo than the LatinVFR, and that is basically the best selling plane in the world IRL and won't be too long before it starts to become the most common plane in the skies. It's the 21 Neo that I'm most interested in.
I never had P3D.I had FSLabs A320X for FSX and then switched to MSFS2020.And i only fly Arbus planes.No Fenix for me, only FBW and Headwind products.Waiting years for FSLabs so yes i will buy this airplane.And i don't think A320 family is saturated.Just my opinion.
Hard to buy the same plane when the Fenix one is so good.
Simple thoughts really: there was -and is - one person who is responsible, not only for the malware - but more importantly - for the legal threats towards websites and users. That person is Lefteris, the CEO. He still occupies the position, and he never apologised for the hostile stance and bad practice - to anyone. Since that never took place, I am having a hard time imagining buying anything from them ever again. So do many other of their potential customers. Making mistakes and doing terrible bully moves is bad on its own, but not owning them and not apologising signs the sentence. It is childish, drama-inducing and unprofessional. So for me - no FSL products until Lefteris does something. Something sincere and very public.
Funny you say that. The way Mister Kalamaras behaved at the forums and his rudenes to customers if you disagree or had a problem with their product made me turn away from FSLAbs. It was always your problem , not theirs. Nevertheless, It was for that time an amazing airbus. But if I have to pay a topprice, I wanted a great and decent support from the developers too.
@@ericvandorp That is recognisable, although the only product I owned from them was the FS2004 Concorde (and they used to distribute via Flight1, which was a fairly trusted publisher at the time). I remember needing support maybe once, but it was long ago and the interaction was OK. There is another developer who are, I believe, genuinely good people - but they have a similar problem with user communication. I've had to really think thrice before buying even a single product from them.
But I think we are on the same page that until there is a visible, public apology from Lefteris for being such a ____, it is hard to imagine doing any business with him or FSL.
@@ericvandorp At the minimum you don't want malicious software to be installed onto your machine, you don't want to be presumed to be a thief, and you do deserve to be treated with dignity. It doesn't seem FSL are open to reconciliation with their target audience.
Hi. Thanks for the informative video. Strange effects going on in your video. For example, at 15:42, what are those reflections/shadows? It looks like the wings are transparent, or are you flying under a huge mothership? Some of the clouds are over & under the wing.
I had used their concorde and it was indeed amazing.
That being said it will be hard to trust them this time around.
Indeed. A pity, it would be nice to have a good concorde in MSFS. The DC Design one is not great, even after the latest update.
On a purely Flight Sim basis, I am mostly excited for their A321neo. As much as I enjoyed their P3D products, there is really no need for me to shell out for another A321ceo.
On an ethics level, I want to give them the benefit of the doubt that they have learned from the past issues. I am usually not a first adapter when it comes to downloading addons, so I'll let the more astute FS community members do a malware scan for me
You fucking kidding?
Look a rocky start is pretty common time repairs wounds I’ve had fs labs since they came out and will be buying the entire fleet I’ve had toliss fenix and they are really good but fs labs take the level one step further so just because someone had a rocky past dosent mean you put them down they learnt there lesson and fixed it and apoligied for it and time repaired the wounds so give them a second chance
The prices they charged were shocking so I can’t help but imagine a bit of projection in their paranoia about piracy (to the point they used malware to fight it).
i was a huge fan of FSL back in P3D , to me they could'nt do wrong, even with there well known problem. just dont see me getting another 321 in MSFS when i have the fenix. Wished they would have done a high level 330/350 then i would have been very very interested
FSL, the ones which installed malware on your pc with their installer?...no thanks.
Yea no thanks, I wont be supporting such a development team with shady ethics. They have a good product but I wont be purchasing something I already have (the fenix a320 series) twice. I prefer my test.exe as a running gag in the cockpit and not a malicious file in the addon directory.
For me there are too many red flags to buy any FSLabs product, especially since Fenix already does an exceptional job and is also cheap for what they offer. Fenix has updated the products for free with the Block V2, the addition of the Sharklets or the MSFS2024 compatibility. Besides, no matter how good FSLabs products are, there can't be such a big difference with Fenix to buy it.
I had all the products from FS Labs and they were very good but they price gouged across the board. You even had to pay for the Interface just to use Skalarki hardware products. I love Fenix, not only for their products and innovation, but also for how they operate. Perfect comms which are open and transparent and they generally over deliver on their products and are quick to address issues post release. The MEL/Tech Log is innovative from FS Labs but I'm not in the least bit enticed to start handing over money for it
They probably put a lot into the ceo it was probably being made before fenix was, so i get why they may have made a CEO but i do hope if they make the whole a320 family they just do neos.Though this situation definatly isnt acceptable to do to anyone.
I'm really hoping for a PW Neo finally
Interesting, didn’t know this back story. Was there no legal action against them?
I’ve flown P3D A320 by FSLabs and it was the really best airbus I’ve flown. The pre-release version seems to have better handling specially within the flare and a lot of new features Fenix do not have.. So yes I will buy it for sure and it will be without doubt the best A321 available. One more thing, they release it for msfs2020 simply because msfs2024 is too young to be a stable and steady platform for a Study level aircraft.
Nah. Lefteris didn't learn anything, he did this at PMDG with the MD-11 which resulted in him getting the boot, then continued doing it at his own new company FSLabs until it reached mainstream media and he was forced to stop it. I wouldn't trust this guy to tell me the time of day, he thinks he's special and can do whatever he wants, no one dare to criticize him. No, the new A321 probably won't have malware in it. Thats not because he's such a great and remorseful person, but rather because everyone is warned this time
I like to use Toliss aircraft for the NEO’s and FENIX for the CEO’s. Even if fs labs hadn’t had their history, I’m not sure I would buy from them. I can’t see myself using anything but the FENIX. I can’t see how anything can match its level of detail and I’ve gotten used to the aircraft. I’m sure that anything that fslabs does better will be met by FENIX and they will still continue to provide a great product. It would be weird to have an A319 and A230 by one developer and an A321 by another.
R.e the new A321 CEO. No. When I go for a flight, I don't think 'I'll be flying the Fenix today' and 'tomorrow I'll fly the FSLabs' - I think 'I'm going to fly an A321'. Fenix has succesfully provided an extremely well made A321 CEO which fits the bill perfectly. I do not view any reason for yet another high quality one in my library, both of which aiming to be the exact same plane. I get that there will be differences, that is to be expected, but not anything I find significant enough to make purchasing a near identical aircraft of such cost worth it. Fenix themselves have also built a fantastic reputation now.
I am looking at the NEO however, soley because the closest well made is the A321LR, and even then it is not great being a default aircraft. The sounds in particular. I however do not disregard the history of FSLabs here.
I'm surprised they decided to go in this direction with MSFS. I think they will mostly cater to the P3D crowd to bring them over, to the existing ones which haven't gone onboard the Fenix, and to the V1-Simulations type of Pilots / UA-camrs. That, plus the past controversy will be making for an interesting journey. For most simmers, even those wanting authenticity - I don't think FSL will bring significantly more than Fenix which will make it worth the extra purchase except for those truly wanting to study the aircraft and fly it nearly exclusively. Now, if they did an A330 I can guarantee that would have been successful - then they would have an advantage over INIbuilds and Aerosoft. I've always found wear-tear and MEL type of functions attractive on paper, but not practice because we spend so much time flying many different planes. I already have the Fenix 321 and no matter how much I'd love to see the FSL, I can't justify the cost.
FSLabs all the way they are the Rolls Royce of Aircraft
You should talk about Blackbox formally know as Phoenix simulation Software PSS and their past checkered history of ripping people off ,leopards don’t change their spots they might change their name but still have the spots
loved their concord back then but i wont trust them again
Well we was supposed to be getting the QW 787 for MSFS2020 but unfortunately we never heard anything back from them ever again. Which to me quality wings probably went bankruptcy. It’s a shame because Quality Wings 787 was supposed to come to Microsoft Flight Simulator 2020 but nothing happened
The past is not good at all. Not too mention if this is a P3D port, which some have suggested it is, why aren't they offering a discount? The IFLY 737 max was even discounted for P3D users. With their reputation as it stands, I am not convinced that it isn't a P3D port and as others have mentioned we have a phenomenal A321 from FENIX for MSFS and MSFS 2024 along with the A319 and the A320.
If you already have the systems simulation coded in C++ why would you recode them from scratch for a different platform? FSLabs don't do discounts, but developers don't usually provide discounts like that.
For me it is strange that they announced their A321 for MSFS 2020 shotly before the release of MSFS 2024. Since the current MSFS 2024 bugs will be ironed out in the not so far future, FS Labs will be sitting on just one more A321 for a sim eventually only a small minority will be continue tu use.
I don’t know if I can trust them again so I don’t think I’ll be purchasing their products until I am reassured they will not be violating my privacy.
I used their products in P3D, great planes, very realistic. Now, in MSFS world there's already Fenix offering very robust models for the average, even though for the not-so-average, simmers. And let's face it, it must be a very small fraction of simmers who are interested in very advanced things like failures etc. I gather 95% or so must be very satisfied to fly from A to B in a realistic manner, online or offline, for a virtual airline or not. So, I don't really get how FSLabs could penetrate today's market.
I don't see myself buying FSLabs A321ceo, unless it comes with so much more realism in the flight model that would make Fenix seem like a toy. My average needs are more than satisfied with Fenix. I would seriously consider an A321neo though, for the sole reason of being able to simulate flights from various VA's. Of course it would have to be at a reasonable price, and performing well.
Oh, and we forgot MSFS 2024. Why would anyone like to keep hanging on 2020 because of an add-on running exclusively there?
I did not know any of this about FS Labs but thanks for bringing this information of their crooked behavior to our attention. It seems they are the pirates; FS Labs has been crossed off my list and there are too many AIRBUS aircraft already. I will continue supporting FlyBywire. As someone already said: two wrongs don't make a right but three rights make a left.
99% of flight simmers don't even use 10% of whatever the Fenix (or Toliss in X-Plane land) Airbus planes have to offer. There really is no need for yet another A320 family member if all you do is fly from A to B according to standard procedures. So I doubt it will be profitable for fslabs to launch this in the near future, even if it is better at simulating the rarest failures. Not many people will need it, maybe just the few that are training to fly the real thing. Everyone else will already have gotten a good (enough) version of the A320 family. And let's not forget about the malware history of course. The flight sim community is not that large that people will have forgotten about that one.
Absolute "no-go" for me, I'm affraid. Damage was done a long time ago. Shame, because I bought their A320 family for P3D and it was extremely good and to be honest, I'd have bought their Concorde for MSFS if that had come out. But I have serious trust issues with FSL which means I just cannot justify investing my hard earned cash into their company ever again.....
Fenix has shown the way forward for me with the A320 family: first rate quality at a reasonable price, with no dodgy practices attached.....
For everything I have learned here, I think fear to by anything from them. It´'s not just the malware. The price counts too. Charging for evrything is not correct. I buy a mod for 100 USD and, in the end, it will cost me 300 USD. I have the Fenix (and it is very good).
Really dont see a reason to buy another a321, especially not from a developer with a reputation like this. Fenix A321 is phenomenal, we also have the a321 in fs2024.
Does that mean pilot training is going to get cheaper or is this just a game?
Old school simmer here. Regardless of the pass, Fsimlabs A320 was a fantastic addon for P3D, even superior than Fenix.
Note: Fenix is an amazing addon, and textures are better, but this one is not far behind.
Agreed, I've been long around as well since the day they released the Airbus X and Concorde-X. FSLabs had great times for me for their quality of addons back in the day. I really do hope they don't fall for the same fatal error again for msfs like they did in the past.
@Music_SonicZone I can say that it was more enjoyable than the Fenix.
I have good memories of the FSLabs but compared to the Fenix, they don't have much that the Fenix doesn't. Fenix has better systems, modeling, and texturing. I like the few features FSlabs has brought to the sim, but I more looking forward to their NEO since Fenix said they weren't planning on a NEO in the future.
Wouldn't touch them with a barge pole. I will continue with Fenix and the the Inibuilds A330 and FBW A380.
I have the Fenix so will not care about another A321
This is probably the worst video you’ve ever made. “It’s all in the past” is nonsense. The gall it took to do what they did was off the charts. Never forgive such nonsense. Zero justification.
just another flightsim simp
It is called 'playing devil's advocate'.
they used to be super expensive and the updates took for ever, ummm not sure....
I think the biggest issue, besides intentionally putting malware on users' computers, is that the CEO of FsLab has never released a formal public apology. If they had decided to sit down with their community and take responsibility for their mistake, I don't think the backlash would be as strong as it is today.
Instead, they decided to silence the community by taking legal action. To be honest, this level of arrogance is alarming and scary.
There's no chance that I'm going anywhere near them .
I‘m only interested in the A321 Neo to be honest.
You are avoiding the elephant in the room. An A321 CEO for MSFS2020? We have the Fenix, we have MSFS2024, and Fenix supports MSFS2024. From the streams, I am not seeing more than 100 ~ 200 people watching both FlyBoy and BlackBox. I am afraid to say it, but this product is dead. Maybe FSLabs have their saving grace with the Concord though. We'll have to wait and see if it is released.
you're missing the whole point of the video, he said "TO DISCUSS THE HISTORY", and also maybe you should stop for a second and think. FsLabs has been working on msfs since msfs came out they wanted to bring the a330 first but changed to the a321 as it was the last p3d aircraft they released. Since there is an already saturated ceo market they ar doing a neo which is not saturated and the deafult ini builds neo dont cut it for me, i dont like the a320 fam of ini builds.
They did wrong. But, imagine you have a dream, and the dream is making flight sim addons. You get a crew together to make the best addon flight simmers ever seen. You start selling it and realize everybody loves it but low sales. Only a few would buy it, many people would be downloading a pirated version. What FSLabs didn't know was that PMDG, IFLY etc were on the same boat, and they didn't take mesures the same way, they did not go Postal on consumers. I wouldn't want anyone using my software free, would you? Even so, it was not accetable and still isn't.
Except the CEO of FSLabs was also working for PMDG at one point, a key part of their FS9 747-400 and especially MD-11 products, before leaving to form FSLabs.
And yes, the PMDG MD-11 did have some rather dubious capabilities in terms of removing files from your PC to damage your FS install as an anti-piracy measure.
So we're not talking coincidences, we're talking patterns.
FS Labs are far too late to the party and Fenix have held the bar high enough that only a fantastic USP would make anyone even consider getting a second high fidelity A321CEO from FSLabs. What on earth possessed them to start out with a CEO. I believe that a NEO is going to follow in the future but why they haven't concentrated on that first is beyond me. It would fill the gap between the Fenix CEO family and the FBW A320NEO. Hopefully they are at least going to include the PW1100G engine option as well.
Nope….will keep supporting Fenix. They have been fantastic to the sim community, and I am loyal to that
Let bygones be bygones. I will not buy the FSLABS because I already have the Fenix package. But I think the community needs to give them some slack. I'm sure they've learned their lesson.
I presume you mean slack, I respectably disagree, if it is the same people why would you. Not only was it illegal and disrespectful to said community to infect customers PCs with malware but downright outrageous to threaten legal action to try to cover their tracks and sue people for complaining.
@@davidperry7128 Thanks. Edited the post. I agree with the part about threats to legal action. That was unforgivable.
I will not be buying their products. The shady programs and scripts, but also their shady tactics to suppress negative post etc. Ones I loose trust, thats it for me. And I spend alot of money gaming, sims and gear.
I will not buy their plane. Thanks for the explanation. Also, the fenix a321 costs just 50€ or so and not 100
If there were guarantees that there are no more shenanigans from them AND if it had been a NEO, I may have considered it but as we have a CEO from Fenix, I’ll not be buying this.
F fslabs...period
I’m sorry but the market is not saturated with Airbus high fidelity add-ons the like of which FSL make. Fenix is nice but still has a lot of weaknesses, and there is no other Airbus in MSFS that even comes close to that.
The last thing I would/ will buy
How about A320ceo
I could care less about the "fidelity" of any FS Labs product. They actually have some neck still trading under that name. The Fenix Airbus fleet is more than adequate for the purposes of simming, so there's ZERO chance I'll be buying anything from FS Labs, irrespective of their awful business practices, which may or may not be in the past - who would ever take that chance...
These guys are crooks...Do not buy this product when it releases, don't feed the trolls!
Honestly, not even for free. 1st of all: Who needs this plane when there is a Fenix out there, and 2nd why installing risky software when there is a Fenix out there :)
Not such a big deal to me. At the end of the day….its all about the quality and value to me. Installing software to catch a thief is no biggie. We are so vulnerable in our everyday lives already…do we go live off the grid in the woods?
No thank you. I’ll be opting out
I see no need to buy their 321 CEO. Also, bad decisions come with a price.
They will fail miserably. Why on earth would anybody buy a single A321CFM when for the same price I assume you can get almost the whole A320 family from Fenix, which is also a study-level addon.
It's not even a loyalty thing or being cautious with cybersecurity. If you're considering buying the FSL A321 you're really bad at making financial decisions.
After everything they were charging and all the money they made, and listening to this story, I think they really feel entitled to do anything they can to catch piracy. I don’t trust them and will continue to provide support to Fenix. FSLabs should have realised that there hegemony had the days numbered and now it’s too late. Their empire is over. Maybe if they would have had a different attitude and show respect to their customers, after the hundreds of $€£ they spent, they could still be in the market.
I own the Fenix and I like it a lot. I remember this Malware era and it was blown way out of proportion because this community loves drama and grudges. I actually use the FSLabs A320 too. I've owned it since 2018. It was considered the most Indepth A320 available until recently, and in some ways still superior to the Fenix at this moment in some ways. Certain non-normal systems are done with more accuracy, it has the newer Honeywell MCDU. They're both great simulations of the A320. But the newbies are dismissing something they don't understand. You don't know what you don't know. Like you said, you're going to buy it, people commenting are going to buy it, streamers will stream it, and competition is good. It will push Fenix to improve and likewise the FSLabs to further push the boundaries.
Why would anyone trust this company to install anything on their PC (unless that PC had absolutely nothing sensitive on it)?? Good luck to them with an expensive addon in a saturated market. Plus not even supported in fs2024
"When people show you who they are, believe them the first time" applies.
I will not touch this with a bargepole. FSLabs will not get another penny from me.
If you've never flown it you do not know what you're missing - I was so disappointed with the Fenix coming straight from P3D - literally style over content, it looks pretty but the flight model and handling in the air and on the ground was no match for the FSLabs buses, and I couldn't land the damned thing. If you want the most realistic home flying experience, FSLabs will deliver.
I have been enjoying flight simulation from the start.
I learned to fly the Airbus with FSL in P3D. Never heard about the two issues spoke of here and never had any problems too big to handle.
I will buy the new product. They provided great manuals too, something Fenix doesn't do. I have and enjoy Fenix too and PMDG and some of the rest.
I suspect no more bad moves by them and if there are, it will be found. One thing all that develop anything have to know and understand is that
we customers are a lot smarter and have more tools then ever. And of course you have companies that like to look for things to question.
So based on their past products, I will give it a shot.
I wont. Shady tactics trying to suppress negative writings is a cherry on top. Ones you loose my trust, there is no coming back.
Of course... considering the system depth and behaviors from Prepar3D... I do not see that in MSFS yet, even via the Fenix. Stuff I'm noticing in terms of behaviors from Flabs compared to Fenix are quite long to enumerate. I look forward to see the entire FSLabs A3XX in the future!
You couldn't pay me to install a FSLabs product ever again. Also, they're too late to the game. I'll pass.
I would not touch or buy any fslabs products either due to this , wont touch softwares from companies with a criminal history that employs such metods as including trojans to their purchasing customers , let alone the security risks to any system even if you obtained legaly
Yes of cource I will buy it.