This Muslim-influence clip of the guy saying to get out of friendships where the other person is influencing you is very powerful. This is the kind of scene that would be great in a movie, it would have instant-commentary on religious influence.
Influence through family to me is the most insidious. Religion was always tentative in my family but my kin have become converts to JW's or RC's, depending on who you talk to. I am single with no family of my own so now, being a skeptic into science and philosophy as well as critical thinking I now find myself with no family at all.
@@byebyedislikecount939 Yes, the pharmaceutical industry legitimately has some issues to contend with. I don't think anyone's claiming they are saints. But that's why we have regulatory agencies and why those standards must be continually improved (note, not more regulation, necessarily. Better regulation). I've seen both sides of the coin. Working at my state's department of health I saw first hand that some organizations were knowingly over-prescribing opioids, though most were actually pretty ethical and concerned about it. On the other hand I'm an asthmatic and allergenic and my meds have literally kept me alive on numerous occasions. And I've taken part (as a study subject) in drug studies on the efficacy of new medications so I know just how rigorous they are. The alt. medicine industry makes money hand over fist AND is totally unregulated aside from their advertising.
I found peace in your videos last night. I left Mormonism at 15, I'm 18 now. I had a panic attack (the type where you feel like the walls are closing in and can't think or breathe) after stumbling on some mormon blogs. I know it sounds silly, but I really do believe religious trauma goes deep. Like fuck... I feel like it shouldn't hurt anymore. Growing up in a cult, and ripping yourself away at 15 means leaving an entire community, belief system, friends, family, and that stability and consistency behind. No matter how bad it was in the church, It was comforting to believe in God. It is still hard. But these videos talking about these things, talking about how the religion I left really was bad and I did the right thing is comforting. It's hard guys, if you left a cult. But ex-mormons and ex-cult members are all so fucking strong. We can make it through all this shit okay? It's hard to be at peace sometimes but you made it out alive. You're gonna be okay and so am I.
@Ashton: you got out pretty young. That has pros and cons, just like everything. You have a greater chance to overcome the internalised control mechanisms (fear) for your future life, yet you must endure a longer period of time of vulnerability. It is important not to seek to replace one cult with another. Try to focus your attention on putting your life together, one part of that is finding a social circle of people who care about you as a person, rather than about you as a member of their identity group.
Ashton, go see Telltale's channel. He escaped Jehova's Witnesses and tries to help others who have left or are trying to leave JWs, Mormons or other cults (which is what they are). He's the best person I know of to help anyone as he knows exactly what you're going through. GMS is excellent, too, as you have discovered, but having more sources of help - at least if they're coming from the same sort of background - is only a good thing. Good luck, friend, you've taken the biggest, bravest step already. You *will* succeed. Accept it will take time. You are *not* alone. Don't be hard on yourself. x
I also left the mormon church. My whole fathers side is mormon so they still give out my address to missionaries telling them to come talk to me . They even did this when i moved out of state. When i left the backlash from my family was intense and i even have a few aunts who still hate me for it even though i was 16 when i left and that was a decade ago....... It really is a cult
If you are experiencing trauma, which sounds like it, try looking into Somatic Experiencing. Some people will see a general therapist to try and explore options, and then get recommended to an SE practitioner from there. Somatic Experiencing is a physical therapy approach to healing trauma through the body and is really the most profound healing I've ever been through. You can see the documentary here: ua-cam.com/video/nmJDkzDMllc/v-deo.html
😳 This is why we must enable even young children to develop critical thinking skills and never to prevent them from asking questions. Consider how persistent four and five year old children are in asking ‘Why?’ Yet all too often they are chastised for being tiresome and annoying those around them. This is particularly significant in a learning environment where open mindedness should be the basis of enquiry. Evidence before assertion must be the watchword against the machinations of these predators. As always, Drew, kind regards from your European correspondent in 🇬🇧
Your comment amuses me. Something i think we need to also be careful of, i honestly our own friends and family. Not to say that they would try to pull you into a scam. But if someone gets their hooks in anyone close to us, we are more willing to listen to friends without evidence because we already trust them when we wouldnt trust a stranger. Kind of like how he talked about this scam artist trying to find a crack and get in the door
Andrew Abel , Well when it comes to my family I'm very skeptical about what they think they know. I'll listen to them, but I don't listen with a biased mind. I'm cautious. As most people should be, even when a family member or friend shares an idea with me that doesn't quite sound like it's originally theirs. It shouldn't be all that difficult to spot a group ideology.
He Was Fuzzy Wuzzy i agree if you know those close to you then you should have the sence to pay attention to any odd behaviors. Like i said, the original comment amused me lol
Bluemonsoon , Atheism is only the rejection of any gods existence based on the lack of evidence to support such extraordinary claims. That is in no way at all the same as denial or a lack of "faith" or belief in the existence of "a" god.
After 68 years on this rock, I've decided not to worry much about truth. Truth is often self-evident. What's much more important is learning what's not true.
It feels odd since I don’t even know you or Rationality Rules, but I’m proud of you both for being so young and so wise at the same time. It’s not so common. I know I was not this wise when I was your age. You should be proud of yourself as well.
2consider I am sorry that you have been butt hurt, apparently pretty badly judging by your bitter tone, by atheists and their proper logic and grasp on reality. But right now, by accusing me of joining some kind of cult, you are using the same faulty logic the got you to believe in an invisible sky daddy in the first place. Your feelings have obviously been hurt and I’m sorry for that, but if your self-esteem is tied to a frail, untenable belief system that repeatedly gets torn down by simple logic, then your feelings are bound to be hurt at some point.
Daniel Fellows I don’t conflate the two. In my opinion he’s both knowledgeable and wise. I recently had a conversation with a man in his late 40s. He insisted that JFK assassination was done with a second gunman. Do you know what he cited to me as his source? The Kevin Costner film. A grown man used a fictional movie as his source for forming his opinion on the JFK assassination.
The vulnerability thing can’t be understated. The Jehovahs Witnesses literally prayed on my mother at my grandmother’s funeral. They even tried it with me when I was mourning, “don’t you want to see your grandmother again”, they would say. I found it incredibly rude to do that at a funeral, but that’s part of their cult training, they literally go through the obituaries to find grieving people.
Man. I remember when I was younger I was always had Christain beliefs shoved down my throat, fully accepting Jesus into my life at 13. I guess I'm lucky I was able to get out of my faith.
religion is different from God. all the toxins from our environment block our brain from our heavenly connection. Jesus did pay a high price for our sins after all... and yes religion is laaaame not many people actually read the Bible, even christians.
@@dreaminginnoother for me it was my grandpa, when I was younger he told me the Bible was fairy tale. And just that perspective boggled me for the longest time I thought he was crazy. But that seed of doubt never let me fully trust it and then after thinking about how many people religion has hurt and a whole bunch of other things I decided it isn't for me.
I know this is an older video but I wanted to share my story with this. When I was 17, my mother passed away and everyone knew she was basically my best friend. I had a family member (who is super religious) contact me and tell me their condolences. They told me how much I wanted to see my mom again, I basically replied as everyone that is in grieving would say "I would do anything". Well this is his reply, " I can introduce you to a faith that will allow you to see her again". I have never been religious but I do try to let people down easy when they try to convert me. He basically tried to guilt me saying things like "I guess you don't love your mother enough". Long story short, I don't speak to him anymore and I recently saw him at a party to which he tried to speak to me but I ignored him. It was a JW btw. I don't mind religion just don't try to convert me...
That's because they're the quackiest of the quacks. Seriously, their community is like #1 for me when it comes to confirmation bias, scientific literacy be damned.
I escaped a ‘christan’ cult in 2014 and am dealing with the consequences (inclusing brain-washing and conversion therapy) and losing all of my ‘friends’....I wish this had never happened to me. I wish I could have noticed what was happening way sooner....still I am rebuilding my life now. So thank you for this sort of content
Thank you for sharing this information as you said no one is 100% impervious but being aware of these deceitful tactics is so important in order to both not fall prey and in order to make sure we aren't unintentionally manipulating others. I ended up getting roped into a multi-level scheme selling gimmicky makeup when I was younger. It was a really heartbreaking learning experience for me as I was going through a really difficult and lonely time in my life, I know it sounds pathetic but I really thought I'd made a new friend. The woman who "recruited" me made it sound like it was going to be fun and she was going to be there to help me get started but after she got her commission from the expensive start up kit (I really couldn't afford it at the time but she reassured me it would be worth it) she dropped me like a hot potato, especially when she realized I just didn't have it in me to harass and manipulate my friends and family into purchasing overpriced and often gimmicky cosmetics before I'd even had a chance to test them myself (you were encouraged to sell sell sell right away before your kit even arrived). After getting to know her a bit in that short time I believe she had at least some idea that what she was doing was shady as hell and later I learned just how many others she's done this to, she is a pro and sadly I still see her at local markets and fairs around time to this day pushing her crappy makeup. I still feel so stupid for getting sucked in but I know I could have lost so much more and I try to see it as a learning experience I am a lot more cautious now.
Thank you so much, Drew. You and other channels like yours have greatly affected me in my decision to become an atheist. I am still a bit stuck, however as literally everyone around me doesn't know.
If you are thinking of coming out to other people in your life, take a look at ua-cam.com/video/MJ-8ocmtb_8/v-deo.html by TheraminTrees, another atheist youtuber. It's a bit long, but it's quite a good guide on whether and how you should proceed in such a situation. Whatever you decide on, good luck.
I unfortunately was taught as a Mormon missionary the "foot in the door" technique and used it myself. I remember practicing it with my companions. I'm sorrowful that I was part of the cause of a few baptisms, but luckily one of the ones I caused to join ditched and I talk to him. I met my husband on my mission so I can't say I regret going. I'm just glad he joined me in leaving the Mormon cult before we spent too much time and money on it. Now that I have an outsider's view I'm horrified by my childhood religion. I wish I could save my family from this destructive organization, but I remember that mindset. They have to come to the actual truth for themselves. Maybe I'll grab a "Rationality Rules" tshirt. My Mormon family doesn't know I'm ditching. The ones I'm really worried about knowing won't understand the reference right? Right?
I'm so glad I escaped Christianity! A lot of my family drank that Kool-Aid a looking time ago. My great aunt's addiction to religion and "all natural" vitamins killed her.
Preying on vulnerabilities is not just the domain of cults, it’s the whole basis of the beauty industry and most dietary products, both of which are sold in regular stores.
1:59 Learning to see those tactics happening from my past religious upbringing is what played a significant role in why I stopped being religious. Feelings of having been lied to and betrayed started building up as it kept happening. Eventual the religious organizations started realizing that I wasn't falling for it and start alienating and ostracizing me. Lessons at church started to show clear designs meant to sway other members opinions about certain subjects and in such a away as to clearly realize that the other members where suddenly becoming, inhospitable towards me. It didn't take long for me to realize that I had been lied too all my life after that and that their so called morals where nothing but show. It also started making more sense why every effort I made to be "obedient and compliant" with those moral and ethical perspectives seemed to have an unusual failure for other members of that organization or others organizations to follow up or express approval. If certain moral and ethical principles have a certain design and pattern to them, then applying those patterns in there context, in the effort to solve a problem should be praise worthy and acceptable to the community right? Especially if the designed applied effort was well designed and did everything possible to avoid immorality, harm to others as well as prevent or avoid manipulation and coercion, while also being done with full intent to be helpful and all the good stuff, so surely it would be acceptable, right? And yet, despite all of that, to several things over the course of years, even over a decade, I instead get condemned and treated like I did something evil or wrong, when nothing within the design, or execution had any such violations... The only explanation I was left with, each time, an explanation I didn't wanna except for the longest time, was that they themselves where lying from the start and had absolutely no intention to apply all those morals and ethics they preached. Apparently, my solutions, that didn't prey on the weak and infect prevented prioritization of the weak, was viewed as dangerous to their goals. And I started realizing, slowly over time, that all their preaching of morals and ethics where all lies as their very own methods where immoral and unethical. They hated me, because my methods actively avoided abusive manipulations and emotional head game playing. They viewed me as a danger to their religious recruitment practices. And their immoral and unethical application of their religious beliefs is why I left their religious organizations.
Thanks for what you do man! Sometimes I find myself feeling guilty for having such negative emotions about my former religion, but you reminded me how justified my emotions are. What they did to me was nothing short of brainwashing.
@2consider - *What flaws? What bad idea?* The bad idea? Religion. The flaws? The texts themselves and the literal thousands of different and contradictory faiths. *According to Drew here, cults take advantage of people's emotions and need to feel a part of something, and there are few people more shunned from society as atheists* I'm not sure how you meant that because it's hardly something to be praised. *at least that's what fear mongering people like this guy, and other celebrity atheists would have you believe* Could you point to where he was fear mongering? Furthermore are you trying to imply that the simple position of non-belief wont get you killed in some countries? That is not fear mongering simply fact(don't think he brought that up in the video). *so they entice you into their groups using the same methods as any other cult leader. * Some atheists join out of emotion sure, but most don't. The opposite is true for religion. *He takes advatage of your guilt and negative emotions and tells you, just stop believing in a God and all those negative emotions and guilt will go away.* Regarding this thing you said to the OP, you do realize this exact criticism can be used against religion in the reverse right? It's actually far less effective when used against atheism because there is no divine morality(at least for the majority, some atheists are still spiritual for reasons i find equally ridiculous) and requires them to take full consequence for their actions without the buffer of a supposedly all loving and forgiving god who dispenses with your sins for simply asking. If either position is better in regards to "sinning" it is certainly the theistic position.
@2consider "Atheism is a religion!" *There are two groups of people who say this. Granted, some people might be a part of both groups, but anyway.* *Trolls and complete morons.* *So, are you a troll, complete moron or both? Those are literally the only options.*
I actually have had this happen. I’m religious and made the mistake at Christmas of talking about my best, very platonic, friend. They scowled and asked if that was a good idea. I was like yea we’ve helped each other out. Idc if he’s an atheist. He’s a good person and people can’t tell me how I believe or why. My grandma is actually the best at letting me inform my own thoughts and she’s who I view as the one who helped my faith grow. Even religious people experience this it seems.
One time my friends and I were at Mall of America and these old ladies walked up to us and asked if we wanna be saved. One of my friends tried to humor them, as did me and the other friend, but she walked away once they said "now say, I am a sinner". My friend and I were trying not to laugh while humoring them, it was pretty funny but then he lost his phone XD
Thank you for making this video. I really indentified with the "foot in the door" technique. I'm not religious and I consider myself agnostic, but I became very interesting in a spiritual leader who posts videos on UA-cam named Teal Swan. Teal Swan has lots of self-help style videos that are a mix of metaphysical and psychological advice / wisdom. I found so much of her content enlightening and helpful. I found her video on living an authentic life profound. Every now and then she'd say some spiritual mumbo jumbo stuff and I'd take it with a grain of salt and I felt like the metaphysical stuff didn't completely nullify some helpful advice she gives. I felt like she seemed so dead on and wise with so many topics that I almost got a sense like, wow, this chic has all the answers... And if a fairly rational person like ME is thinking that, I can see people that are more into mumbo jumbo being completely captured by her. And then one day I watched her video about "shame" where she said the following: "It must be known that shame manifests as some vicious, vicious physical ailments in the body. The first and foremost being AIDS. The number one energetic cause of AIDS is in fact perpetual shame, usually with regards to one’s own sexuality." I am a gay man so I am very knowledgeable about HIV/AIDS. I was like, oh my God, what a batshit crazy thing to say. First of all, she fully skipped HIV and went straight to AIDS, maybe she meant HIV/AIDS, okay whatever, but her claim is completely outrageous. No amount of sexual shame is going to have your body suddenly catch AIDS if you're practicing safe sex and you avoid sharing needles. It is so irrational to ignore well documented scientific explanations for things like diseases and instead choose to explain things with psuedo-science mumbo jumbo. She also has an anti-vaccine video. I consider myself a pretty rational person, and I found her claims in the video to be pretty compelling. I have a feeling the claims she makes are unsubstantiated. Her video has a conspiratory message something to the effect of "they are purposely making you sick with vaccines to make money off of you" and she sprinkles in nuggets of truth, like "a poor diet can lead to health issues" inbetween these claims that vaccines do more harm than good to add legitimacy to her overall message. I just wanted to share my experience with how this "foot in the door" technique effected me. Teal Swan seems to have quite a large following and some of her videos have a million views, so I'd be interested in seeing a video from you discussing her sometime.
Hey brother thanks for sharing this! I like the detailed and nuanced insight into this topic that you have. I'd like to share the following quote with you in light of what you said. “It is simply no longer possible to believe much of the clinical research that is published, or to rely on the judgment of trusted physicians or authoritative medical guidelines. I take no pleasure in this conclusion, which I reached slowly and reluctantly over my two decades as an editor of the New England Journal of Medicine. Now primarily a marketing machine to sell drugs of dubious benefit, BIG PHARMA uses its wealth and power to co-opt every institution that might stand in its way, including the US Congress, the FDA, academic medical centers and the medical profession itself.” Marcia Angell
Always look into compelling information brother do not be afraid. Of course she may be 80 percent or more wrong, I am not sure what she is saying exactly. In fact she may be all wrong. But never be afraid to question things that could be dangerous to the profiteering oligarchs.
So for the longest time I’ve been meaning to play the audio of the EO sales guy in this video next to Holy Kool-aid’s voice. Prior to today, I had suspicions about the similarity. But as I’m pretty lazy, never bothered to do it. So after watching this video, and hearing both close together, suspicions be gone... Thanks Drew. And kudos on wearing the shirt for RR! You’re a great guy
I always feel uneasy when it comes to the preacher 'Jesus smuggling' at funerals. When people are grieving they're more likely to absorb ideas like heaven... in fact, a mechanism for coping with death is the core of every religion.
Kamran Houle nothing whatsoever. That overrated snake oil salesman hack needs to be debunked at every turn. His Incel fanbase will come like vultures to a carcass but logic and reason trumps any feelings
This is a fantastic video. I love what you do and feel like I could talk about this stuff with you for hours, because I have come to see that it spans all of culture in varying degrees. Having long unresolved health issues, I realize I am easy prey, but more than vulnerable, I am desperate, and willing to try things that sound kooky despite having felt jipped countless times in the past. But having this be a constant struggle in my life, it has become clear that most of American, and really all capitalist culture, is based more on culty quackery than substance. All of advertising and consumer culture is geared toward playing on our psychological vulnerabilities. Everyone is buying into something, because buying into nothing is likely to leave you feeling empty and confused. Often times there is more money in ideas than actually creating something good. And being a musician, I see how pop music is pretty much the only way to make money, and it's all about hitting the lowest common denominator and building up cult of personality and getting your album promoted on radio stations and streaming platforms. This is obviously a much diluted example of your point, but it usually seems like sales > all else. We value all the wrong things because there's money in selling those things to us and promoting ideas that are not actually good for us as a society. Is it any wonder we are so miserable? Why cults who give simple answers are so dangerously appealing? Capitalism loves desperation.
Wow this was powerful brother I am glad you shared this story and your thoughts. I agree immensely. I love music and concluded the same thing. There is a fun theatre and community aspect to that, but it can devolve into darkness if taken too far.
I love your videos and your approach was so refreshing - you did your own legwork - you did your own research and have a logic-base that is clearly balanced. Great work!
I didn't have a religious upbringing, so I don't consider being an atheist any kind of achievement in my kind of situation. However, people like you who have been able to escape the shackles of religion after years of indoctrination, are in my opinion the true champions of reason!
I was brought up mormon. By age 6-8 i began to question but at age 8 you get baptized and that was simi forced upon me by my family. They lied and told me i could swim knowing that i loved to swim and even told me that we would have a party like a 2nd birthday. I didn't get baptized because i enjoyed church or because i believed what they said. It was a do this and have a party or don't do this and get into trouble situation so of course as a 8 year old i chose to have a party. I would get into trouble for questioning the church (from family, other church people were patient but told my family afterwards). Hear is the thing, they want you to basically live at church. Spend half the day on sunday there. Every wednesday night there and every freaking day 2 hours before school starts there...I hated every moment in church...... as if kids didn't have lives and homework to deal with or require sleep at all...... So you saying that they manipulate kids , yes they are masters at that. I was one of the few girls that i know who went to church and left for good despite most of the kids that were there saying that they only went to church because they were forced to by their families.....
I experienced #1 just the other day. Some evangelicals at the mall mistook me for a cripple (long story there), and when they found out I wasn't, their next question was "do you have some other kind of hardship in your life?" It's kinda creepy.
That's true about manipulation. One always influence more than the other. If you have zero influence, stop the friendship. But the person who always agrees is leading you into a con to make you dependent on their approval and unquestioning of motives
Tfw I joined a alt right friend group and all of those things happen to me also huge generalisation , us vs them mentally, total isolation aka see black pill , I didn't even care about politics that's why I left the stream of constant propaganda was to much for me
I mistrust all groups that somehow have secrets for themselves. One can be sure that it is some kind of madness they are dealing with. The same applies to those who in some way isolate themselves.
speaking of preying on the vulnerable, in Scientology the recruitment and sales tactics that are taught ( they don't even try to use words other than recruitment or sales) is literally to "find their ruin", meaning find what the person is most distraught or messed up about and focus in on that, get them worked up about it and upset about it and then come in with the solution of joining staff or buying a service
The Mayor he only preached to the poor and uneducated. He advocated that everyone is born evil and must be born again through him. He mainly converted by giving the poor food and healing their sick... He followed most of these rules
Made me think of a part from the poem "Storm" by Tim Minchin... "By definition, " I begin, "Alternative medicine, " I continue, "Has either not been proved to work, or been proved not to work. Do you know what they call Alternative medicine that's been proved to work? ...Medicine."
Watching that “Jesus Camp” footage brought back so many bad memories! I was 11 years old and with a group of fellow Sunday school students at a “Jesus Camp”-type of event and the minister wanted me to profess my love for, and belief in, Jesus. I knew I didn’t believe and knew it was wrong to lie, so I said that I didn’t believe. What a difficult moment! Feeling ostracized by the group wasn’t the worst part, it was the belief that I was somehow “wrong” or “defective” because I didn’t believe on faith, because I had to have proof. I ended up dropping out of church more and more over the following two years, breaking completely away when I started 10th grade. But I didn’t get over those feelings of something being wrong with me until many years later.
Great info! I just wanted to let you know one of your advertisers in the UK was selling an app to prove how god interacts with us daily. I got a good laugh but I wonder who their researcher was that sold them that spot. If I could find out I would sell them some ocean front property in Ohio.
and when you feel isolated, and longing for connection, and a quack with ideas comes along to tell you how to do things better and you're riveted, they soon turn on you when you when you decide that they are chatting shit, and realise they don't really have your best interests at heart.
@@heruone3249 It's called learning from people who know more about a subject than you do, and then testing what you have learnt, the opposite of indoctrination,
@@Poseidon6363 people literally Regurgitate everything they read from a 2nd hand source or what a 2nd hand source told them and claim that is education. Don’t believe me look at how schools Indoctrinate students when it comes to history
Sales is sales. Whether it's products that make doctors furious (chuckle) or claimed that 98% of women see a difference (not a reduction, just a difference) within a certain time span, it's the same schtick applied to different situations. And it's not always from people you'd expect. 'The Special AKA', a 1980s ska-ish band (famous for 'free Nelson Mandela') had a song called, 'Racist Friend' that sang, "if you have a racist friend, now is the time for that friendship to end. Be it your best friend, or any other, be it your brother or your sister or your mother..." which I found really disturbing. It was simplistic, insulting and counter-productive. Great video *+Genetically Modified Skeptic*. I have 'subscribed'. See what you've done. You've caught me when I'm vulnerable and now I'm under your control. Time to sniff some essential oils and sing "Onward xtian soldiers".
WOW! This was one of the best and most informative videos I’ve seen in a long time! I was thinking “Mormons and Scientologists” as you were listing the tactics and BAM! you mention both of them. You’ve got a new subscriber.
Golf Foxtrot Yankee ~ In short, yes, absolutely. This is a 'group' I have studied for some time; spend time on their UA-cam Live Stream (patriot soapbox) chatroom, or any of the websites, and they unequivocally check off every box for defining a cult. It's fascinating in a bizarre and unsettling way to just sit back and watch what these people and their followers rant about and claim to be Truth.
No, just a bunch of people obsessed with something beyond any standard of falsifiability. Like any clearly deluded ideology they’ll meet some of the standards, but I honestly don’t see them meeting enough of the standards to be considered a cult. Not by the BITE method anyways.
Duuuuuude the open window analogy is scary...I went to school in the Deep South and I remember one time I quoted “god is dead” not even to piss anyone off. But someone turned around and told me to shut the fuck up before I caught hands, and that was just a really Christian moment for me
mormons believe they will be let into the highest teir of heaven if they show the hand gestures. (I used to be one. My leaving got finalised last month......which my former bishop didn't tell me about till I called him this month -_-)
This video left me with feeling of an incomplete lecture on cults. As if one who was never threatened by a cult took an educational brochure from place where cults are rampant, and threw away the parts he thought were over-the-top. Or is this because it concerns only "recruitment" part? In that cause, you seem to have missed out "shower in love" part, where cultists flood a potential follower with a lot of nice and helpful people, who praise and pity, setting a beginning to an emotional praise-contempt roller-coaster. "Hey, look, we got them friends for ya". If a victim gets into a training camp, there's also a rigid training schedule, mostly based on the need to keep recruits undernourished and under-slept ("mortification of the flesh", I believe is the term?), to dispose of critical thinking. At this point the real friends and relatives will be kept away at any cost. After that there's the rite of passing, usually including giving away all of your stuff. A-and, you get the idea, there's plenty more to this topic than there's in the video.
When I was still a Jehova's Witness they encouraged people to go preach in cemeteries and leave their propaganda leaflets in hospitals. And when my friend was ill and hospitalized for weeks I was told to give her those. To my shame, I did. But since she wasn't converted I can only hope she never read them.
I love how its an "open window for God to come in"--until it leads to the demand for evidence based reasoning. Then you're an evil doubting Thomas (of course conveniently forgetting that Jesus provided himself as evidence for Thomas).
When you go to McDonald's as a kid you play at their playground. When you get older and go to McDonald's you have a good feeling about the place even though you no longer (hopefully as an adult) play at their playground. It's not totally insidious but it is an mild exhibition of a simple association that will keep you coming back, even though you know you should be eating better.
It's both odd and cool how many religious and MLM groups as well as overall quackery advertise on this channel. I love it because these commercials waste money targeting the presumably least susceptible audience.
Jeez... just found your channel. All day I was convinced that you were a really fast talker. Until I realized I had play back on 1.25 after binging on LPPmFusion videos. He is a super slow talker...lol. Great videos. Liked and subbed.
One comment I would have to make is on the misconception that being uneducated makes you more vulnerable to falling victim to cults. I’ve spent years engaging in dialogue with members of various cults. E.g. Mormons, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Hare Krishna, etc. There are a good number of intelligent people (PhD graduates, doctors, lawyers, etc) who have fallen victim to cults. In my experience talking to them, many of these cults are actually well equipped to challenge one’s intellect by means of subtle twisting of language, presenting negligible facts based on misuse of verified evidence, and playing on their victim’s longheld misconceptions to seemingly support their cult beliefs. The fact is that, more often than not, cults are well prepared to handle skeptics. Not the other way around. Which is why many intellectuals despite their education do in fact fall victim to cults. You can’t just watch a couple UA-cam videos on a specific cult and expect to successfully challenge a cult member’s entire belief system before the entire dialogue exchange abruptly breaks down, and resorting to accusations and name calling at one another.
I have a weird relationship with Mormonism myself, my family joined in Venezuela when I was 5 years old, by the time I was 9 we stopped attending because my dad hated how pushy they are, by the time I was 13 they approached me and managed to get me to baptize, I asked my dad and he told me that if it was what I wanted to do, he wouldn't stop me, by the time I was 15 I got my family to attend again for some months but then again we distanced because the same as my dad I hated how pushy they are. Then when I was 19 my then girlfriend left me (I'm pretty sure she cheated but I don't ave evidence) I had an emotional break and ended up attending again, I felt and still feel safe there. I attended for a couple years but couldn't take it anymore, the manipulation, the way they always want to tell you how to live your life, the people you oughta be friends with, the places you oughta go etc. By the time I was 27, I moved to Ecuador without telling basically anyone and somehow they found me., It was weird but I ended up attending for a couple months because it felt familiar and I was alone in an unknown country, I left Ecuador and moved to Peru, lived there 2 years and never went again, I'm now in Argentina and they haven't found me again. Still they're going to my mom's house a lot, they're helping her with some surgeries she needs and pressuring my sisters to marry since one is 25 and the other is 21 lol My Dad died of cancer a couple of months ago, sure he was a proud Mormon, he found peace there. The ironic part is that he got a Catholic funeral anyways lol
They really tried the whole "your vulnerable so let's aim for you" thing with me. When the divorce happened between my dad and mom I wasn't really in a good state. And guess what the answer was. PREYING TO GOD. I quickly learned that it was absolute bullshit. Ironic how their tactics went against them with me.
Glad I found your channel, man. I have been binge watching your videos recently. Excellent content, excellent format, good stuff. Much love from Virginia
I know plenty of you have encountered one or all of these tactics in real life before. In what ways have you seen these being used?
This Muslim-influence clip of the guy saying to get out of friendships where the other person is influencing you is very powerful. This is the kind of scene that would be great in a movie, it would have instant-commentary on religious influence.
Influence through family to me is the most insidious. Religion was always tentative in my family but my kin have become converts to JW's or RC's, depending on who you talk to. I am single with no family of my own so now, being a skeptic into science and philosophy as well as critical thinking I now find myself with no family at all.
i like it how that as im watching your video you only have ONE dislike
@@ethidian3444
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zakir_Naik
...is the worst kind of Islamic apologist and, sadly, very popular...as incredible as that is.
@@byebyedislikecount939 Yes, the pharmaceutical industry legitimately has some issues to contend with. I don't think anyone's claiming they are saints. But that's why we have regulatory agencies and why those standards must be continually improved (note, not more regulation, necessarily. Better regulation). I've seen both sides of the coin. Working at my state's department of health I saw first hand that some organizations were knowingly over-prescribing opioids, though most were actually pretty ethical and concerned about it. On the other hand I'm an asthmatic and allergenic and my meds have literally kept me alive on numerous occasions. And I've taken part (as a study subject) in drug studies on the efficacy of new medications so I know just how rigorous they are.
The alt. medicine industry makes money hand over fist AND is totally unregulated aside from their advertising.
I found peace in your videos last night. I left Mormonism at 15, I'm 18 now. I had a panic attack (the type where you feel like the walls are closing in and can't think or breathe) after stumbling on some mormon blogs. I know it sounds silly, but I really do believe religious trauma goes deep. Like fuck... I feel like it shouldn't hurt anymore. Growing up in a cult, and ripping yourself away at 15 means leaving an entire community, belief system, friends, family, and that stability and consistency behind. No matter how bad it was in the church, It was comforting to believe in God. It is still hard. But these videos talking about these things, talking about how the religion I left really was bad and I did the right thing is comforting. It's hard guys, if you left a cult. But ex-mormons and ex-cult members are all so fucking strong. We can make it through all this shit okay? It's hard to be at peace sometimes but you made it out alive. You're gonna be okay and so am I.
Ashton Brooks
Many ex Catholics never lose a sense of guilt.
@Ashton: you got out pretty young. That has pros and cons, just like everything.
You have a greater chance to overcome the internalised control mechanisms (fear) for your future life, yet you must endure a longer period of time of vulnerability. It is important not to seek to replace one cult with another. Try to focus your attention on putting your life together, one part of that is finding a social circle of people who care about you as a person, rather than about you as a member of their identity group.
Ashton, go see Telltale's channel. He escaped Jehova's Witnesses and tries to help others who have left or are trying to leave JWs, Mormons or other cults (which is what they are). He's the best person I know of to help anyone as he knows exactly what you're going through. GMS is excellent, too, as you have discovered, but having more sources of help - at least if they're coming from the same sort of background - is only a good thing. Good luck, friend, you've taken the biggest, bravest step already. You *will* succeed. Accept it will take time. You are *not* alone. Don't be hard on yourself. x
I also left the mormon church. My whole fathers side is mormon so they still give out my address to missionaries telling them to come talk to me . They even did this when i moved out of state. When i left the backlash from my family was intense and i even have a few aunts who still hate me for it even though i was 16 when i left and that was a decade ago....... It really is a cult
If you are experiencing trauma, which sounds like it, try looking into Somatic Experiencing. Some people will see a general therapist to try and explore options, and then get recommended to an SE practitioner from there. Somatic Experiencing is a physical therapy approach to healing trauma through the body and is really the most profound healing I've ever been through. You can see the documentary here:
ua-cam.com/video/nmJDkzDMllc/v-deo.html
I already knew this was gonna be amazing when it started with Spongebob.
spongebob was the highlight
@@sage6336 lol
😂😂😂😂
I know
Jellyfish Jelly = Essential Oil
😳 This is why we must enable even young children to develop critical thinking skills and never to prevent them from asking questions. Consider how persistent four and five year old children are in asking ‘Why?’ Yet all too often they are chastised for being tiresome and annoying those around them. This is particularly significant in a learning environment where open mindedness should be the basis of enquiry. Evidence before assertion must be the watchword against the machinations of these predators. As always, Drew, kind regards from your European correspondent in 🇬🇧
Unrealistic expectations. Kids at 4-5 are just coming to understand the concept of other people.
Necessary to distinguish critical thinking from Critical Theory. CT is a cult.
Never underestimate the willingness and gullibility of the vulnerable targets- uh, people in need that can easily be taken advantage of- um, helped.
Your comment amuses me. Something i think we need to also be careful of, i honestly our own friends and family. Not to say that they would try to pull you into a scam. But if someone gets their hooks in anyone close to us, we are more willing to listen to friends without evidence because we already trust them when we wouldnt trust a stranger. Kind of like how he talked about this scam artist trying to find a crack and get in the door
Andrew Abel , Well when it comes to my family I'm very skeptical about what they think they know. I'll listen to them, but I don't listen with a biased mind. I'm cautious. As most people should be, even when a family member or friend shares an idea with me that doesn't quite sound like it's originally theirs. It shouldn't be all that difficult to spot a group ideology.
He Was Fuzzy Wuzzy i agree if you know those close to you then you should have the sence to pay attention to any odd behaviors. Like i said, the original comment amused me lol
Andrew Abel , Well I can understand your amusement. I was being a bit sarcastic, but with a light touch of cynicism.
Bluemonsoon , Atheism is only the rejection of any gods existence based on the lack of evidence to support such extraordinary claims. That is in no way at all the same as denial or a lack of "faith" or belief in the existence of "a" god.
After 68 years on this rock, I've decided not to worry much about truth. Truth is often self-evident. What's much more important is learning what's not true.
What's the difference?
It feels odd since I don’t even know you or Rationality Rules, but I’m proud of you both for being so young and so wise at the same time. It’s not so common. I know I was not this wise when I was your age. You should be proud of yourself as well.
Same here. Took me an awful long time to become a moderately critical thinker.
He's certainly knowledgeable, but knowledge & wisdom are not the same things. Try not to conflate the two
2consider I am sorry that you have been butt hurt, apparently pretty badly judging by your bitter tone, by atheists and their proper logic and grasp on reality.
But right now, by accusing me of joining some kind of cult, you are using the same faulty logic the got you to believe in an invisible sky daddy in the first place.
Your feelings have obviously been hurt and I’m sorry for that, but if your self-esteem is tied to a frail, untenable belief system that repeatedly gets torn down by simple logic, then your feelings are bound to be hurt at some point.
Daniel Fellows I don’t conflate the two. In my opinion he’s both knowledgeable and wise. I recently had a conversation with a man in his late 40s. He insisted that JFK assassination was done with a second gunman. Do you know what he cited to me as his source? The Kevin Costner film. A grown man used a fictional movie as his source for forming his opinion on the JFK assassination.
@2consider Yeah, *I'm* the one with bias! 😂😂😆😆
"tender trusting hearts" translation: The gullible and subject to suggestion.
They don't like skepticism
That message the woman left to the person with a dying father made me want to break something.
The vulnerability thing can’t be understated. The Jehovahs Witnesses literally prayed on my mother at my grandmother’s funeral. They even tried it with me when I was mourning, “don’t you want to see your grandmother again”, they would say. I found it incredibly rude to do that at a funeral, but that’s part of their cult training, they literally go through the obituaries to find grieving people.
Man. I remember when I was younger I was always had Christain beliefs shoved down my throat, fully accepting Jesus into my life at 13. I guess I'm lucky I was able to get out of my faith.
I'm curious, what was it that got ya'll off the religion opiate when the pipeline is pushing you that direction?
@Samurai Jack haha. so you are implying those still in it are just plain dumb?
religion is different from God. all the toxins from our environment block our brain from our heavenly connection. Jesus did pay a high price for our sins after all... and yes religion is laaaame not many people actually read the Bible, even christians.
@@dreaminginnoother for me it was my grandpa, when I was younger he told me the Bible was fairy tale. And just that perspective boggled me for the longest time I thought he was crazy. But that seed of doubt never let me fully trust it and then after thinking about how many people religion has hurt and a whole bunch of other things I decided it isn't for me.
@@womanzuzu9688 you're one of those "I'm a follower of Christ not a Christian" people aren't you... don't waste your time here bud I've made my choice
I know this is an older video but I wanted to share my story with this.
When I was 17, my mother passed away and everyone knew she was basically my best friend. I had a family member (who is super religious) contact me and tell me their condolences. They told me how much I wanted to see my mom again, I basically replied as everyone that is in grieving would say "I would do anything". Well this is his reply, " I can introduce you to a faith that will allow you to see her again". I have never been religious but I do try to let people down easy when they try to convert me. He basically tried to guilt me saying things like "I guess you don't love your mother enough". Long story short, I don't speak to him anymore and I recently saw him at a party to which he tried to speak to me but I ignored him.
It was a JW btw. I don't mind religion just don't try to convert me...
I've always been fascinated my cults. I love when your subject is about them! Another awesome video Drew!
Then maybe you'll like Theramintrees, he talks about them there :
ua-cam.com/video/IaUhR-tRkHY/v-deo.html
You nailed Flat Earthers perfectly.👍
That's because they're the quackiest of the quacks. Seriously, their community is like #1 for me when it comes to confirmation bias, scientific literacy be damned.
@@unpaintedcanvas I dunno... the yercs (Young Earth Creationists) are _at least_ as bad as the flerfs, if not worse.
I escaped a ‘christan’ cult in 2014 and am dealing with the consequences (inclusing brain-washing and conversion therapy) and losing all of my ‘friends’....I wish this had never happened to me. I wish I could have noticed what was happening way sooner....still I am rebuilding my life now. So thank you for this sort of content
Thank you for sharing this information as you said no one is 100% impervious but being aware of these deceitful tactics is so important in order to both not fall prey and in order to make sure we aren't unintentionally manipulating others. I ended up getting roped into a multi-level scheme selling gimmicky makeup when I was younger. It was a really heartbreaking learning experience for me as I was going through a really difficult and lonely time in my life, I know it sounds pathetic but I really thought I'd made a new friend. The woman who "recruited" me made it sound like it was going to be fun and she was going to be there to help me get started but after she got her commission from the expensive start up kit (I really couldn't afford it at the time but she reassured me it would be worth it) she dropped me like a hot potato, especially when she realized I just didn't have it in me to harass and manipulate my friends and family into purchasing overpriced and often gimmicky cosmetics before I'd even had a chance to test them myself (you were encouraged to sell sell sell right away before your kit even arrived). After getting to know her a bit in that short time I believe she had at least some idea that what she was doing was shady as hell and later I learned just how many others she's done this to, she is a pro and sadly I still see her at local markets and fairs around time to this day pushing her crappy makeup. I still feel so stupid for getting sucked in but I know I could have lost so much more and I try to see it as a learning experience I am a lot more cautious now.
Ohhh look, he's wearing rationality rules' merch 😏
@@teapot2186 This would be the battle of the century indeed... But nah, GMS is too goody-two-shoes for that...
What do you think about this??
ua-cam.com/video/OYVZnq6hwy0/v-deo.html
Thank you so much, Drew. You and other channels like yours have greatly affected me in my decision to become an atheist. I am still a bit stuck, however as literally everyone around me doesn't know.
If you are thinking of coming out to other people in your life, take a look at ua-cam.com/video/MJ-8ocmtb_8/v-deo.html by TheraminTrees, another atheist youtuber. It's a bit long, but it's quite a good guide on whether and how you should proceed in such a situation.
Whatever you decide on, good luck.
Sigh...this is the true and insidious nature of religion/god-belief.
Especially religions that evangelize.
I unfortunately was taught as a Mormon missionary the "foot in the door" technique and used it myself. I remember practicing it with my companions. I'm sorrowful that I was part of the cause of a few baptisms, but luckily one of the ones I caused to join ditched and I talk to him. I met my husband on my mission so I can't say I regret going. I'm just glad he joined me in leaving the Mormon cult before we spent too much time and money on it. Now that I have an outsider's view I'm horrified by my childhood religion. I wish I could save my family from this destructive organization, but I remember that mindset. They have to come to the actual truth for themselves. Maybe I'll grab a "Rationality Rules" tshirt. My Mormon family doesn't know I'm ditching. The ones I'm really worried about knowing won't understand the reference right? Right?
I'm so glad I escaped Christianity! A lot of my family drank that Kool-Aid a looking time ago. My great aunt's addiction to religion and "all natural" vitamins killed her.
Ouch. You have my sympathies for your aunt. :(
"Tender, trusting hearts..."
That's a pedo line if I've ever heard one.
you do have to applaud their honesty
The predatators view on the world where children are prey
Preying on vulnerabilities is not just the domain of cults, it’s the whole basis of the beauty industry and most dietary products, both of which are sold in regular stores.
1:59 Learning to see those tactics happening from my past religious upbringing is what played a significant role in why I stopped being religious. Feelings of having been lied to and betrayed started building up as it kept happening. Eventual the religious organizations started realizing that I wasn't falling for it and start alienating and ostracizing me. Lessons at church started to show clear designs meant to sway other members opinions about certain subjects and in such a away as to clearly realize that the other members where suddenly becoming, inhospitable towards me. It didn't take long for me to realize that I had been lied too all my life after that and that their so called morals where nothing but show. It also started making more sense why every effort I made to be "obedient and compliant" with those moral and ethical perspectives seemed to have an unusual failure for other members of that organization or others organizations to follow up or express approval.
If certain moral and ethical principles have a certain design and pattern to them, then applying those patterns in there context, in the effort to solve a problem should be praise worthy and acceptable to the community right? Especially if the designed applied effort was well designed and did everything possible to avoid immorality, harm to others as well as prevent or avoid manipulation and coercion, while also being done with full intent to be helpful and all the good stuff, so surely it would be acceptable, right? And yet, despite all of that, to several things over the course of years, even over a decade, I instead get condemned and treated like I did something evil or wrong, when nothing within the design, or execution had any such violations...
The only explanation I was left with, each time, an explanation I didn't wanna except for the longest time, was that they themselves where lying from the start and had absolutely no intention to apply all those morals and ethics they preached. Apparently, my solutions, that didn't prey on the weak and infect prevented prioritization of the weak, was viewed as dangerous to their goals. And I started realizing, slowly over time, that all their preaching of morals and ethics where all lies as their very own methods where immoral and unethical. They hated me, because my methods actively avoided abusive manipulations and emotional head game playing. They viewed me as a danger to their religious recruitment practices. And their immoral and unethical application of their religious beliefs is why I left their religious organizations.
Thanks for what you do man! Sometimes I find myself feeling guilty for having such negative emotions about my former religion, but you reminded me how justified my emotions are. What they did to me was nothing short of brainwashing.
@2consider - So pointing out justified flaws in a bad idea is somehow a negative, just wow.
@2consider - *What flaws? What bad idea?*
The bad idea? Religion. The flaws? The texts themselves and the literal thousands of different and contradictory faiths.
*According to Drew here, cults take advantage of people's emotions and need to feel a part of something, and there are few people more shunned from society as atheists*
I'm not sure how you meant that because it's hardly something to be praised.
*at least that's what fear mongering people like this guy, and other celebrity atheists would have you believe*
Could you point to where he was fear mongering? Furthermore are you trying to imply that the simple position of non-belief wont get you killed in some countries? That is not fear mongering simply fact(don't think he brought that up in the video).
*so they entice you into their groups using the same methods as any other cult leader.
*
Some atheists join out of emotion sure, but most don't. The opposite is true for religion.
*He takes advatage of your guilt and negative emotions and tells you, just stop believing in a God and all those negative emotions and guilt will go away.*
Regarding this thing you said to the OP, you do realize this exact criticism can be used against religion in the reverse right? It's actually far less effective when used against atheism because there is no divine morality(at least for the majority, some atheists are still spiritual for reasons i find equally ridiculous) and requires them to take full consequence for their actions without the buffer of a supposedly all loving and forgiving god who dispenses with your sins for simply asking.
If either position is better in regards to "sinning" it is certainly the theistic position.
@2consider You already admitted that is just a lie that you're trolling.
@2consider Yah, you're out trolling nonsense again.
@2consider
"Atheism is a religion!"
*There are two groups of people who say this. Granted, some people might be a part of both groups, but anyway.*
*Trolls and complete morons.*
*So, are you a troll, complete moron or both? Those are literally the only options.*
I actually have had this happen. I’m religious and made the mistake at Christmas of talking about my best, very platonic, friend. They scowled and asked if that was a good idea. I was like yea we’ve helped each other out. Idc if he’s an atheist. He’s a good person and people can’t tell me how I believe or why. My grandma is actually the best at letting me inform my own thoughts and she’s who I view as the one who helped my faith grow. Even religious people experience this it seems.
All those ear to ear smiley faces paired with being overly nice, as Coolaid put it; has a much darker truth
One time my friends and I were at Mall of America and these old ladies walked up to us and asked if we wanna be saved. One of my friends tried to humor them, as did me and the other friend, but she walked away once they said "now say, I am a sinner". My friend and I were trying not to laugh while humoring them, it was pretty funny but then he lost his phone XD
3:19 is child abuse. The deliberate misinformation delivered from such a strong position of authority is criminal behaviour.
A much needed exposé! Thanks and keep up the good work.
In order words: quacks are social engineers...
And they don't even know it. Damn!
So would be the people that try to stop them.
Social engineers and grifters.
Politicians and advertisers.
ha
you said "quacks" and you have duck on avatar
Thank you for making this video. I really indentified with the "foot in the door" technique.
I'm not religious and I consider myself agnostic, but I became very interesting in a spiritual leader who posts videos on UA-cam named Teal Swan.
Teal Swan has lots of self-help style videos that are a mix of metaphysical and psychological advice / wisdom. I found so much of her content enlightening and helpful. I found her video on living an authentic life profound. Every now and then she'd say some spiritual mumbo jumbo stuff and I'd take it with a grain of salt and I felt like the metaphysical stuff didn't completely nullify some helpful advice she gives. I felt like she seemed so dead on and wise with so many topics that I almost got a sense like, wow, this chic has all the answers... And if a fairly rational person like ME is thinking that, I can see people that are more into mumbo jumbo being completely captured by her.
And then one day I watched her video about "shame" where she said the following: "It must be known that shame manifests as some vicious, vicious physical ailments in the body. The first and foremost being AIDS. The number one energetic cause of AIDS is in fact perpetual shame, usually with regards to one’s own sexuality."
I am a gay man so I am very knowledgeable about HIV/AIDS. I was like, oh my God, what a batshit crazy thing to say. First of all, she fully skipped HIV and went straight to AIDS, maybe she meant HIV/AIDS, okay whatever, but her claim is completely outrageous. No amount of sexual shame is going to have your body suddenly catch AIDS if you're practicing safe sex and you avoid sharing needles. It is so irrational to ignore well documented scientific explanations for things like diseases and instead choose to explain things with psuedo-science mumbo jumbo.
She also has an anti-vaccine video. I consider myself a pretty rational person, and I found her claims in the video to be pretty compelling. I have a feeling the claims she makes are unsubstantiated. Her video has a conspiratory message something to the effect of "they are purposely making you sick with vaccines to make money off of you" and she sprinkles in nuggets of truth, like "a poor diet can lead to health issues" inbetween these claims that vaccines do more harm than good to add legitimacy to her overall message.
I just wanted to share my experience with how this "foot in the door" technique effected me. Teal Swan seems to have quite a large following and some of her videos have a million views, so I'd be interested in seeing a video from you discussing her sometime.
Hey brother thanks for sharing this! I like the detailed and nuanced insight into this topic that you have.
I'd like to share the following quote with you in light of what you said.
“It is simply no longer possible to believe much of the clinical research that is published, or to rely on the judgment of trusted physicians or authoritative medical guidelines.
I take no pleasure in this conclusion, which I reached slowly and reluctantly over my two decades as an editor of the New England Journal of Medicine.
Now primarily a marketing machine to sell drugs of dubious benefit, BIG PHARMA uses its wealth and power to co-opt every institution that might stand in its way, including the US Congress, the FDA, academic medical centers and the medical profession itself.”
Marcia Angell
Always look into compelling information brother do not be afraid. Of course she may be 80 percent or more wrong, I am not sure what she is saying exactly. In fact she may be all wrong. But never be afraid to question things that could be dangerous to the profiteering oligarchs.
"Manipulative recruitment tactics" the JW that I met! Exactly like that!
So for the longest time I’ve been meaning to play the audio of the EO sales guy in this video next to Holy Kool-aid’s voice. Prior to today, I had suspicions about the similarity. But as I’m pretty lazy, never bothered to do it. So after watching this video, and hearing both close together, suspicions be gone... Thanks Drew. And kudos on wearing the shirt for RR! You’re a great guy
*Hey Vsauce, quack-trying-to-sell-you-alternative-medicine here*
This is an excellent introduction. Just the right length to remain engaging and not become pedantic. Thank you.
I always feel uneasy when it comes to the preacher 'Jesus smuggling' at funerals. When people are grieving they're more likely to absorb ideas like heaven... in fact, a mechanism for coping with death is the core of every religion.
You say that this series is not about bashing jordan peterson, but i counter: whats wrong with bashing jordan peterson?
> whats wrong with bashing jordan peterson?
Nothing, if you can justify it with a *legit* criticism.
@Bluemonsoon
Heh, heh. (At least, I assume you're joking? 'Feminazis' and 'SJWs'? Yeah, you _have_ to be joking.)
Bluemonsoon is one of the disillusioned youth that look to JP as a daddy figure and probably blames everyone else for his problems
Kamran Houle nothing whatsoever. That overrated snake oil salesman hack needs to be debunked at every turn. His Incel fanbase will come like vultures to a carcass but logic and reason trumps any feelings
@Bluemonsoon A person whose job it is is to follow orders calling others NPCs...pot kettle black.
This is a fantastic video. I love what you do and feel like I could talk about this stuff with you for hours, because I have come to see that it spans all of culture in varying degrees. Having long unresolved health issues, I realize I am easy prey, but more than vulnerable, I am desperate, and willing to try things that sound kooky despite having felt jipped countless times in the past. But having this be a constant struggle in my life, it has become clear that most of American, and really all capitalist culture, is based more on culty quackery than substance. All of advertising and consumer culture is geared toward playing on our psychological vulnerabilities. Everyone is buying into something, because buying into nothing is likely to leave you feeling empty and confused. Often times there is more money in ideas than actually creating something good.
And being a musician, I see how pop music is pretty much the only way to make money, and it's all about hitting the lowest common denominator and building up cult of personality and getting your album promoted on radio stations and streaming platforms. This is obviously a much diluted example of your point, but it usually seems like sales > all else. We value all the wrong things because there's money in selling those things to us and promoting ideas that are not actually good for us as a society. Is it any wonder we are so miserable? Why cults who give simple answers are so dangerously appealing? Capitalism loves desperation.
Wow this was powerful brother I am glad you shared this story and your thoughts. I agree immensely. I love music and concluded the same thing. There is a fun theatre and community aspect to that, but it can devolve into darkness if taken too far.
The most obvious and universal characteristic:
THEY DON'T ALLOW YOU TO QUESTION THEM. ESPECIALLY QUESTION THEIR LEADER.
Sorrow TV crossover ❤️
R/antiMLM
i want a r/new video, not hamsters :/
@@anahiramirez9086 apparently people wanted that
"4-14 years... Tender trusting hearts" this is so bad in all possible ways. You really feel predatory evil vibe. At 3:00 I almost vomited.
7:34 "First rule about Fight Club: No one talks about Fight Club. Second rule about Fight Club: *NO ONE talks about Fight Flub!* "
I love your videos and your approach was so refreshing - you did your own legwork - you did your own research and have a logic-base that is clearly balanced.
Great work!
There is NOTHING better than Spongebob memes!
You sure about that? There are JoJo memes
debatable
I plan on starting a cult soon. Great advice on recruiting followers!
Many, if not all of these can be applied to conspiracy theories as well.
Yes.😬🤔
I'm finally leaving Mormonism after 32 years. Every word of this video is accurate.
I didn't have a religious upbringing, so I don't consider being an atheist any kind of achievement in my kind of situation. However, people like you who have been able to escape the shackles of religion after years of indoctrination, are in my opinion the true champions of reason!
I was brought up mormon. By age 6-8 i began to question but at age 8 you get baptized and that was simi forced upon me by my family. They lied and told me i could swim knowing that i loved to swim and even told me that we would have a party like a 2nd birthday. I didn't get baptized because i enjoyed church or because i believed what they said. It was a do this and have a party or don't do this and get into trouble situation so of course as a 8 year old i chose to have a party. I would get into trouble for questioning the church (from family, other church people were patient but told my family afterwards). Hear is the thing, they want you to basically live at church. Spend half the day on sunday there. Every wednesday night there and every freaking day 2 hours before school starts there...I hated every moment in church...... as if kids didn't have lives and homework to deal with or require sleep at all...... So you saying that they manipulate kids , yes they are masters at that. I was one of the few girls that i know who went to church and left for good despite most of the kids that were there saying that they only went to church because they were forced to by their families.....
Children being forced into religion in the fear of a made up hell is child abuse.
TL:DR, More paragraphs
GMS! Drew, there you go again helping, if not down right saving lives! Love and Peace
I experienced #1 just the other day. Some evangelicals at the mall mistook me for a cripple (long story there), and when they found out I wasn't, their next question was "do you have some other kind of hardship in your life?" It's kinda creepy.
The problem I've encountered is that when you tell someone how they've been manipulated, they don't believe you.
The old weird people in the mountains of GTA 5. Lmao xD
Man... I do not miss Church or Christian Camp. Having to unlearn all that bullshit takes a toll. Thanks for making videos that address these things.
Two “essential oil” features?
Observe the "BS" caption above the product. Pay attention now....and if you feel surprised by Drew's behaviour just pause for thought before reacting.
That's true about manipulation. One always influence more than the other. If you have zero influence, stop the friendship. But the person who always agrees is leading you into a con to make you dependent on their approval and unquestioning of motives
Tfw I joined a alt right friend group and all of those things happen to me also huge generalisation , us vs them mentally, total isolation aka see black pill , I didn't even care about politics that's why I left the stream of constant propaganda was to much for me
Psychiatry preys on the vulnerable too, and claims that the beliefs it instills are the real help the subject needs.
Psychiatry may not be perfect, but at least it is based in science and honestly trying to help. I think your statement is way off the mark.
@@TheDesertwalker lol Drew even says the indoctrinated are honestly trying to help....
I mistrust all groups that somehow have secrets for themselves. One can be sure that it is some kind of madness they are dealing with.
The same applies to those who in some way isolate themselves.
speaking of preying on the vulnerable, in Scientology the recruitment and sales tactics that are taught ( they don't even try to use words other than recruitment or sales) is literally to "find their ruin", meaning find what the person is most distraught or messed up about and focus in on that, get them worked up about it and upset about it and then come in with the solution of joining staff or buying a service
Oh my, I just realised even Jesus Christ did this if all historical accounts of him are to be believed.
The Mayor he only preached to the poor and uneducated.
He advocated that everyone is born evil and must be born again through him.
He mainly converted by giving the poor food and healing their sick...
He followed most of these rules
Made me think of a part from the poem "Storm" by Tim Minchin...
"By definition, " I begin,
"Alternative medicine, " I continue,
"Has either not been proved to work, or been proved not to work.
Do you know what they call
Alternative medicine that's been proved to work?
...Medicine."
Love the sorrow tv peice. I love his channel also.
Watching that “Jesus Camp” footage brought back so many bad memories! I was 11 years old and with a group of fellow Sunday school students at a “Jesus Camp”-type of event and the minister wanted me to profess my love for, and belief in, Jesus. I knew I didn’t believe and knew it was wrong to lie, so I said that I didn’t believe. What a difficult moment! Feeling ostracized by the group wasn’t the worst part, it was the belief that I was somehow “wrong” or “defective” because I didn’t believe on faith, because I had to have proof. I ended up dropping out of church more and more over the following two years, breaking completely away when I started 10th grade. But I didn’t get over those feelings of something being wrong with me until many years later.
Great info! I just wanted to let you know one of your advertisers in the UK was selling an app to prove how god interacts with us daily. I got a good laugh but I wonder who their researcher was that sold them that spot. If I could find out I would sell them some ocean front property in Ohio.
and when you feel isolated, and longing for connection, and a quack with ideas comes along to tell you how to do things better and you're riveted, they soon turn on you when you when you decide that they are chatting shit, and realise they don't really have your best interests at heart.
Flat earth to a tee, preying on the uneducated and simple minded
You don’t think mass learning in the public system isn’t cult like than you kidding yourself
@@heruone3249 It's called education, you should try sometime.
@@Poseidon6363 "education" because you said it. Ok sure, sounds more like indoctrination🙄🙄
@@heruone3249 It's called learning from people who know more about a subject than you do, and then testing what you have learnt, the opposite of indoctrination,
@@Poseidon6363 people literally Regurgitate everything they read from a 2nd hand source or what a 2nd hand source told them and claim that is education. Don’t believe me look at how schools Indoctrinate students when it comes to history
Sales is sales. Whether it's products that make doctors furious (chuckle) or claimed that 98% of women see a difference (not a reduction, just a difference) within a certain time span, it's the same schtick applied to different situations. And it's not always from people you'd expect. 'The Special AKA', a 1980s ska-ish band (famous for 'free Nelson Mandela') had a song called, 'Racist Friend' that sang, "if you have a racist friend, now is the time for that friendship to end. Be it your best friend, or any other, be it your brother or your sister or your mother..." which I found really disturbing. It was simplistic, insulting and counter-productive. Great video *+Genetically Modified Skeptic*. I have 'subscribed'. See what you've done. You've caught me when I'm vulnerable and now I'm under your control. Time to sniff some essential oils and sing "Onward xtian soldiers".
Perfect thumbnail, lol!
WOW! This was one of the best and most informative videos I’ve seen in a long time! I was thinking “Mormons and Scientologists” as you were listing the tactics and BAM! you mention both of them. You’ve got a new subscriber.
Does anyone here think Qanon is a cult?
It seems like previous internet cults.
depends on your definition of cult. in a way, all groups are cults
Vernon Roark No, it's a cult if it follows the BITE model.
@@birb6095 No, it depends on your definition of cult. in a way, all groups are cults
Golf Foxtrot Yankee ~ In short, yes, absolutely.
This is a 'group' I have studied for some time; spend time on their UA-cam Live Stream (patriot soapbox) chatroom, or any of the websites, and they unequivocally check off every box for defining a cult. It's fascinating in a bizarre and unsettling way to just sit back and watch what these people and their followers rant about and claim to be Truth.
No, just a bunch of people obsessed with something beyond any standard of falsifiability. Like any clearly deluded ideology they’ll meet some of the standards, but I honestly don’t see them meeting enough of the standards to be considered a cult. Not by the BITE method anyways.
Always nice to see faces like Holy Koolaid's on my other favorite channels. Love you guys!
Shouldn't you be citing academic sources for your assertions? Lest you be accused of starting a cult.
Duuuuuude the open window analogy is scary...I went to school in the Deep South and I remember one time I quoted “god is dead” not even to piss anyone off. But someone turned around and told me to shut the fuck up before I caught hands, and that was just a really Christian moment for me
mormons believe they will be let into the highest teir of heaven if they show the hand gestures. (I used to be one. My leaving got finalised last month......which my former bishop didn't tell me about till I called him this month -_-)
Most of the quacks I'm meeting now are focused more on financial secrets to be a millionaire.
With skeptically genetic, I'm Drew.
9:08 *snort* I had to pause both your video and my knitting to laugh my arse off at this! Thank you, I needed it.😂
This video left me with feeling of an incomplete lecture on cults. As if one who was never threatened by a cult took an educational brochure from place where cults are rampant, and threw away the parts he thought were over-the-top. Or is this because it concerns only "recruitment" part?
In that cause, you seem to have missed out "shower in love" part, where cultists flood a potential follower with a lot of nice and helpful people, who praise and pity, setting a beginning to an emotional praise-contempt roller-coaster. "Hey, look, we got them friends for ya". If a victim gets into a training camp, there's also a rigid training schedule, mostly based on the need to keep recruits undernourished and under-slept ("mortification of the flesh", I believe is the term?), to dispose of critical thinking. At this point the real friends and relatives will be kept away at any cost. After that there's the rite of passing, usually including giving away all of your stuff. A-and, you get the idea, there's plenty more to this topic than there's in the video.
As a ex Turkish muslim I am pretty happy about finding your channel. It's a lovely channel and really fun to watch. Keep on with the good work.
First viewer
you are not....lol
When I was still a Jehova's Witness they encouraged people to go preach in cemeteries and leave their propaganda leaflets in hospitals. And when my friend was ill and hospitalized for weeks I was told to give her those. To my shame, I did. But since she wasn't converted I can only hope she never read them.
I love how its an "open window for God to come in"--until it leads to the demand for evidence based reasoning. Then you're an evil doubting Thomas (of course conveniently forgetting that Jesus provided himself as evidence for Thomas).
When you go to McDonald's as a kid you play at their playground. When you get older and go to McDonald's you have a good feeling about the place even though you no longer (hopefully as an adult) play at their playground. It's not totally insidious but it is an mild exhibition of a simple association that will keep you coming back, even though you know you should be eating better.
You've GOT to do an in depth deconstruction of Jordan Peterson!!.. He is the undisputed king of casuistry
It's both odd and cool how many religious and MLM groups as well as overall quackery advertise on this channel. I love it because these commercials waste money targeting the presumably least susceptible audience.
Vulnerability is the most attractive trait to these groups. Widow's, poor people, children etc
You "hit the nail on the head" about preying upon the heartbroken. Very true.
Jeez... just found your channel. All day I was convinced that you were a really fast talker. Until I realized I had play back on 1.25 after binging on LPPmFusion videos. He is a super slow talker...lol.
Great videos. Liked and subbed.
im sure they do it due to compassion, but they sure do lose any and all compassion the second you say you're not interested in their 'help'.
Thanks for the content Drew. You help me make helpful what would otherwise be just endless arguments!
Going back into your older stuff, giving them a like & comment, too. 😊
One comment I would have to make is on the misconception that being uneducated makes you more vulnerable to falling victim to cults. I’ve spent years engaging in dialogue with members of various cults. E.g. Mormons, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Hare Krishna, etc. There are a good number of intelligent people (PhD graduates, doctors, lawyers, etc) who have fallen victim to cults. In my experience talking to them, many of these cults are actually well equipped to challenge one’s intellect by means of subtle twisting of language, presenting negligible facts based on misuse of verified evidence, and playing on their victim’s longheld misconceptions to seemingly support their cult beliefs. The fact is that, more often than not, cults are well prepared to handle skeptics. Not the other way around. Which is why many intellectuals despite their education do in fact fall victim to cults. You can’t just watch a couple UA-cam videos on a specific cult and expect to successfully challenge a cult member’s entire belief system before the entire dialogue exchange abruptly breaks down, and resorting to accusations and name calling at one another.
I recently watched a Simpsons episode, don't remember if it was new or old, where Homer was literally too stupid to fall for their brainwashing.
Really good content. Props for not mentioning Jordan Peterson, I wouldn’t have been so strong! Description fit him perfectly
I have a weird relationship with Mormonism myself, my family joined in Venezuela when I was 5 years old, by the time I was 9 we stopped attending because my dad hated how pushy they are, by the time I was 13 they approached me and managed to get me to baptize, I asked my dad and he told me that if it was what I wanted to do, he wouldn't stop me, by the time I was 15 I got my family to attend again for some months but then again we distanced because the same as my dad I hated how pushy they are.
Then when I was 19 my then girlfriend left me (I'm pretty sure she cheated but I don't ave evidence) I had an emotional break and ended up attending again, I felt and still feel safe there. I attended for a couple years but couldn't take it anymore, the manipulation, the way they always want to tell you how to live your life, the people you oughta be friends with, the places you oughta go etc.
By the time I was 27, I moved to Ecuador without telling basically anyone and somehow they found me., It was weird but I ended up attending for a couple months because it felt familiar and I was alone in an unknown country, I left Ecuador and moved to Peru, lived there 2 years and never went again, I'm now in Argentina and they haven't found me again. Still they're going to my mom's house a lot, they're helping her with some surgeries she needs and pressuring my sisters to marry since one is 25 and the other is 21 lol
My Dad died of cancer a couple of months ago, sure he was a proud Mormon, he found peace there. The ironic part is that he got a Catholic funeral anyways lol
Sorry for the long text it was a bit cathartic
Not mentioned here... But Jehovah's Witnesses are one of the best using this tactics, they even held meetings to discuss what tactics work best
i knew this was a quality video when he showed a clip from Sorrow TV
They really tried the whole "your vulnerable so let's aim for you" thing with me.
When the divorce happened between my dad and mom I wasn't really in a good state.
And guess what the answer was.
PREYING TO GOD.
I quickly learned that it was absolute bullshit. Ironic how their tactics went against them with me.
Glad I found your channel, man. I have been binge watching your videos recently. Excellent content, excellent format, good stuff. Much love from Virginia
"I AM HERE FOR AN EDUCATION"
-no kid in public school ever