Capture with and without a time base corrector
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- Опубліковано 28 лип 2024
- Just a demonstration. I captured a 4th generation VHS tape with a blunt edit to simulate what many consumer tapes are like when edited on home equipment. Notice that the capture card chokes on the video played straihht from the VCR, but when looped through the TBC the video is captured without any interruption, despite slightly lower resolution which is a by product of any TBC.
- Наука та технологія
Very happy I found this video :) It has shown me a few things I needed to learn and know. I have now bought a TBC and also you have answered a question for me revolving around Hauppauge capture cards. Now I and tempted to purchase a good decent video deck.
why not buy deck first, and then see if you need tbc at all.
you did notice him creating damage first to shiwcase tbc, right? so what when you don't have damage?
3 minutes 50 seconds for glitch and 5 minutes 30 seconds for the time base corrected version
A glitsh is a glitch.
Say you are archiving a 60 minute tape, and you are NOT sitting there watching it, and it bombs out after 5 minutes. You play the entire tape, only to find that only the first 5 minutes captured. Or worse you capture the entire tape, and think everything is OK, and only find out later that bad timebase caused your capture card to crap out, and record the last half of the tape as a freeze frame.
Some capture cards have internal frame stores and are not affected by this, and others do not.. Is it worth the risk? That depends. If you are in the business of archiving tapes for clients, and you can not afford having a video ruined by time base errors then the answer is no, it is not worth the risk. Also your reputation is on the line. I do lots of video archiving, and I have lots of referrals, so I can not afford to have a single unhappy customer. So I use a time base corrector.
@@12voltvids Does this TBC stop the audio going out of sync? That's the issue I'm having with my conversions at the moment. I use an EZCAP with no TBC as far as I know.
@@MrJoldroyd
Cheap capture cards with long gop have issues with sync. I use a high end capture card and have no issues with audio sync.
@@12voltvids Oh I see! Maybe I should upgrade. Are there any particular cards you'd recommend?
@@MrJoldroyd I use ClonerAllience Pro box.. Don't need a computer.. Records directly to flash drive.. Stay away from those cheap USB devices, they aren't going to record any analog media properly..
I have a Blackmagic Intensity Pro card and used VirtualDub to capture footage. In my case the process never halted, but the raw captured footage would have a lot of blackouts where it dropped the video and sound. I ended up buying a Canopus ADVC-300 and use WinDV to capture footage instead. That unit seems to have a proper TBC since it doesn't create blackouts. Only drawback is that the level of detail in the raw video isn't as good as the Blackmagic card. The blackmagic card wouldn't accept video signals from computers or video game consoles either, got a total black screen and no sound. Just bought a Leitch DPS-575, could hook that one up and see how it goes with the Blackmagic card.
need help in getting Toolbox Avt-8710!
Is a frame tbc necessary and what will the video be like if I just use my pansonic 1980ag. I did some capturing with my 1980 and a blackmagic intensity shuttle then I saw that those are supposedly horrible for capturing analog video so I’m getting a pinnacle 710. The blackmagic intensity shuttle made it to where I had to use premier pro. I couldn’t use virtual dub. Anyways now I’m just thinking man a frame tbc is a ridiculous price. I got the panasonic 1980 for free because the guy shipped it wrong then it wouldn’t take a tape when I got it so he told me hey keep it it cost too much for me to ship back so I got it restored and it’s nice but I just think my wife would shit a brick if I spent that on a frame tbc. I was single and childless when I got the panasonic 1980 so all that’s kinda changed. I’m just wondering the best way to go about all that. The videos I’m converting are my old wrestling tapes but also some of my brother and he’s passed so those are important so I’m trying to do a good job in all of it.
12voltvids
PLEASE HELP ME :( First of all, sorry for my english. I have a problem with capturing video from VHS. I have many tapes with home videos recorded from Sony Hi8 Camera. I bought Panasonic NV-HS1000 VCR and externtal capturing card that captures video from VCR directly to USB flash memory. The caputring card goes crazy very often on the cuts between scenes on my video. Sometimes it's ok and it keeps recording, but usually LEDs on capturing cards start blinking and the file is lost and the USB flash memory must be formatted on PC because PC sees it as damaged. By "cut" I mean that millisecond moment between two scenes. I found second hand Videonics MX-1. Before I buy it I want to ask you if you think that this may solve the problem?
Dawid
I uses a miniDV camcorder with analog input as a capture device. NEVER have a problem with this approach. The video may jump/smashed on damaged tape portion,but the capture just keep going (and you can edit the bat part out later,of course)
Better yet,if you only want to convert video8/hi8 tapes - use digital 8 camcorder as a playback device. Put the analog tape in,digital video will stream out and capture it,simple as that!
Hey Dave! I am having many problems trying to get a proper standalone TBC here in Argentina. Would you recommend this Videonics MX1 for vhs capture? Any opinion about Panasonic mixers or Sony's?
The videonics mx1 is a TBC and will work well to clean up timing signals on tapes. Higher end units have a process amp so you have more control but the mx1 will do the job.
Awesome change with the MX-1. Sadly, its very difficult to get that unit at this time. Do you know if the Videonics Edit Suit A/B roll edit controller has TBC? I have a lot of Tapes but i have sync problems when i digitalize :(
The edit controller no. You need a video mixer as in order to mix video the signals need to be syncronized and that is the job of the TBC / frame sync
@@12voltvids Thanks for answer my question... i will try to buy an MX-1 on ebay or something.
hy, as the videonics device is a digitizer, wouldnt it be worth copying its digital signal - did you try to find out in which form it exists in the device?
it's not a digitizer, all inputs and outputs are analog. It corrects / stabilizes the analog image, the ad conversion process has to done afterwards
Very interesting, thanks for the video.
Can you tell me some free software that can capture interlaced video? All I'd tried are in progressive! :(
+João Antonio Franz Arcsoft Total Media Extreme
+12voltvids Thanks! Which version you're using on this video?
I think it's the version that came on the CD with the Hauppauge HD PVR. I have the same capture device but I bought it second hand without a CD, and then downloaded it from the link in this video : ua-cam.com/video/vonC2uB2Czg/v-deo.html
Visually, it has different colors than the version shown here but I believe it has the exact same functionality. If you have the Hauppauge HD PVR, Hauppauge also provides free software for it on their website (I believe it's called Hauppauge Capture). I used it before downloading Arcsoft's software and I believe it's just a rebadged version, since it has the same layout and design, but only records in .ts and .m2ts whereas Arcsoft can record in .mp4 which I like better. Otherwise, the recordings from both look identical to me.Hope this helps!
Aaaand I just typed all of this and realised your comment is 3 years old lol. Might leave it up anyway in case somebody else needs the info.
I can see what you mean now, the video content has nothing to do with the clean synch provided by the time base corrector/generator :-D
The only thing i did notice was a vertical frame jitter when the tbc was providing the fresh sync, perhaps the tracking on the vcr is upsetting the tbc perhaps?
Sounds like every capture card needs a tbc on the pcb as standard, how did we cope without it, ok on good tapes but bad :-(.
Any video about the video screen with the incandescent lightbulbs?
What about it? That's a very old technology for these old starboard signs. You won't see these around much anymore except a museum perhaps
An easy way to generate glitches on VHS is to change speeds (SP, LP, or SLP/EP) while recording. I don't know if most newer VCRs let you change speeds while recording, but on older VCRs with a manual slider switch for the speed, you can flip it back and forth repeatedly, resulting in a badly glitched recording!
Some modern VCRs allow to change speed during rec. My LG V280 can.
Hi I have an hd pvr and I want to know how did you connect it with TBC I tried connecting but I am not sure which step is wrong I would love to hear your input on this.
+armanga On the HDPVR I take the video from my VCR, and plug it into the video input on my Videonics MX1. The video out from the videoonics goes to the video input on the front. If I am using a Hi8 or SVHS deck, I use the Svideo cable to connect to the MX1 and the MX1 to the HDPVR. The audio line runs directly from the VCR to the HDPVR.
+12voltvids it's a little bit confusing but I will try it. I know I am asking a lot from you but can you make a video of a a diagram on how to connect I think it would be easy to understand . Thanks a lot
+12voltvids *I meant a video or a diagram.
+12voltvids +12voltvids I have copi all 7000 tbc and I tried to connect as far as I understood from your explanation but it didn't work. I pulled the yellow wire from the video port of the vcr and insert it from vcr to tbc then another yellow wire from tbc to the front of pvr. Where I am getting it wrong? No audio or video is showing at all.
+armanga You do have to use the arcsoft Tota Media Extreme to capture with it. Youthen need to select your video input. Composite or S video on the front, or component video on the back, and select the audio input, front, read or spdif, and your audio mode 2ch or 5.1CH. if using digital input.Other capture utilities may or may not work, or you may not have the options. When I upgraded from WinXP, the original version of TME did not work. I actually went to the store, and bought a new HDPVR just so I could rip a copy of the new version TME2 that works with Win 7 and then returned the device telling the store that it didn't work properly and got my money back, all because TME for XP would not run under win7, and there was no free upgrade, and an attempt to "find" a copy on the net resulted in finding a virus embedded that crippled my new computer. Fortunately there was nothing on the computer as I was in the process of building it, so I wiped the SSD and started over, went to the store, bought a new HDPVR, copied the installation disk, and returned it. Arcsoft of course wanted to sell me the new version, and I said no thanks.This is precisely why I am telling Microsoft to shove windoze 10 you know where. I don't need software that I own telling me that because I upgrade my OS, that I no longer own it, and want to extort a monthly fee to use it.
I have a Sony SVO-5400 Hifi S-VHS big unit (the broadcasting one) . Works without problem, but only shows black and white. How can I correct that?
You have to set somewhere input signal, depends on where you are.. usa ntsc, europe pal..
@@mrfuck792 Thanks. I thought this was only a NTSC machine. Even was checked with technicians.
@@jlatala4655 it was solved? :D
Hi, thanks for the video, but one question. Will the TBC correct the video frame shifting glitch on the bottom of the screen when capturing from videotapes?
+Guy I. Horn
I believe you are referring to the head switching point 6 lines before vertical blanking at the bottom of the frame. The reason head switching is done before vertical blanking is because of of it is done in blanking it would cause sync instability and in the day of analog TV it was hidden by over scan. Of course on digital TV the frame is scanned edge to edge so the switch point easily is visible.
+12voltvids So then that's normal for Digital capture through a computer from VHS or Beta tapes then? Just curious, thanks for the explanation.
Yep, if it bothers you you can crop it out in editing software.
@@NikHYTWP rememeber - VHS was made for analog TV, On the process of analog tape to digital conversion those details appear because are not hidden be cause theré´s no VCR correction circuit
I loved the video! I need to buy a TBC. Do you know of a good one to look for on ebay that won't break the bank? I appreciate any advice you give me.
I never use one myself.
12voltvids! I'm glad I found you. I've been toying around with VHS to digital capturing for over 10 years. I'd do a couple VHS tapes for friends/family here and there and would always end up pulling my hair out trying to understand why capture cards would flake-out and/or the audio would inevitably get out of sync. I'd just import the captured video into an editor like final cut pro and painstakingly correct the audio sync issues. I'm currently capturing a new batch of VHS tapes for a friend and decided to figure out the problem once and for all. I always suspected the problem revolved around the camcorder pausing and or lapsing with snow as the culprit. Thanks to you I now know. I also watched your video on the Videonics MX-1. I'm hesitant to buy a used MX-1 on Ebay for about $75. Do you know of a new off-the-shelf time base corrector that I can purchase from Amazon/Microcenter or am I limited to just purchasing vintage tech off of ebay? Thanks for the great channel and btw: I subscribed. :)
It will be tough to find anything new these days as they really haven't made any in over 10 years. All the time base corrector will be used these days.
@@12voltvids Hi i have a brand new tape that the picture flickers could a TBC be able to remove picture flicker etc.
Hi, I want to digitize composite video signal. In this video you are using a Hauppage device. Is it necessary to use this device or can you use a simple cable? Ive seen lots of cheap cable video capture products like Elgato/Easycapture. Will these digitize the analog signal like in this video? Is a TBC also needed for these products?
A TBC will always improve capture by fixing timing errors in the video signal. I use my hauppague only for HD capture. For standard video I use a song gvhd7000
@@12voltvids What about these cheap cable capture products? Will these do the trick? Also is a tbc necessary in order for the capture to not bail out?
@@janhundling4647
They all (at least the ones I have used ) bail out randomly when used without a TBC. The better ones have an internal TBC as my Sony does.
@@12voltvids what is the tbc you used for TBC vhs and betamax. also I have question I need to find answer. why when we digitize the vhs and play it in big screeen we found this video pixlitaed and only if we want to see it in perfect way we need to play it in small window or mionitor
@@ER7ABY you can't get something from nothing. VHS digitizes natively at 720x480i and when deonterlaced becomes 240 lines.
What’s a good option for a TBC that is affordable?
Videonics MX1 mixer. It has 2 frame store tbc
What's with the crackly sound on the video playback?
What crackly sound?
hey that's my city lol what capture card are you using happuage hd pvr 1217
+PrincessZoey97 HDPVR 49001
Hi, I'm trying to transfer some Beta tapes using an SL-2000. I have a RatSmart AV to HDMI converter an an Elgato HD60 HDMI capture card. The video has weird lines on the top of the picture and when I go into fast forward or pause mode either the converter will think the video is PAL or say "No Signal." This is what I mean watch?v=nKgGN3yaxto
Well you shouldn't be converting to hdmi and then capturing that. You need a good analog capture card with time base corrector for best results.
@@12voltvids what is the best TBC u think ? Most of them said big voodoo TBC but for real is not available any more even used . Can u tell what is the good one TBC
@@ER7ABY well first of all why do you think you need one? The reason they were devoloped was to syncronize non genlocked sources to studio sync for use in multi camera productions. Some have a frame store that hold the picture in memory and read it out in sync with reference clock. Some have color and phase correction and that is called a proc amp tbc. They do not improve picture they actually soften the video. Of course time base correction became a buzzword for consumers that thought they needed it. Sure if you are copying a 3 or 4 generation VHS it might make it look better on another vhs copy but for digitizing any half decent capture card has all the time base correction needed built in. Basically in its simplest form a TBC digitizes analog video to 8 bit video and then turns that digital signal back into analog again. Every time you digitize and go back to analog you are reducing the quality.
Remember VCRs with the edit switch? What do you think that did? It turned OFF all playback processing and correction because even though that processing might make the picture appear clearer it actually degraded a copy. It's the same if you copy a dolby it dbx cassette. You want to turn everything off on the player and recorder and try to record at same levels as original not expand and then compress again. I don't use time base correctors. I have a few but the quality is always better without them.
@@12voltvids i really teally appreciate ur reply with this info.
But I really uave problem with betamax tape , when ever digitize them , it shows horrible, not good as vhs tape .
I tried to buy new betamax but still the same , there is a noise .
So thats why I believe that TBC will solve my issue
@@ER7ABY if your playbackachine has a problem a TBC will not improve things.
Now I know why my damaged betamax tapes cause the capture card to freeze! Thanks for this very informative vid!
+Fivos Sakellis Yes that is the reason. Timing errors. A really good capture card like the old Aver DC30 had no trouble capturing non time base corrected video, as it had a TBC internal, but then it also captured in MJPG, which turned out monstrous files. Something in the order of 500 megs per minute of video!!!!!!! I'm not joking. That was my first capture card, and the files were so big, and at a time that the file kimit was 2 gigs. So basically a capture was limited to 4 minutes. Very difficult to work on editing when you can only capture 4 minutes at a time.
@@12voltvids Is a JVC HR-S9500 with Digipure and TBC any good for capturing from jittery or worn tapes etc.
@@speedyboishan87 I use a JVC HR-S9911 myself and it works great.
@@12voltvids That's great, JVC SVHS VCR's with TBC/Digipure are excellent as they can remove jitter, flicker that the Panasonic SVHS VCR's have trouble with i have 2 JVC VCR's with TBC and they work great have better features that the Panasonic SVHS VCR's dont have.
@@speedyboishan87
Panasonic vcrs were junk.
My favorite were mitsubushi and jvc.
@3:40 so you dont have to wait to for the glitch! @7:12 for the correction!
9:08 Love that 90's instrumental song
Porsche by the rippingtons
That's some old Vancouver footage, like a million ugly condos up now.
Ah yes, False Creek. Old Expo land. I should look through my old footage and put it up.
3:56 here the glitch itself
definitely from 1994, the song used is from 1994
Porscha by Russ Freeman and the Rippingtons.
I enjoy my TBC, have it inline and run all that is only RC/S-Video output....
+Vintage Electronics Geek The MX1 has both CVBS and S video, however I generally only use CVBS (composite) as well VHS was a composite format. When I used that board in my edit system, I used S-Video, and I had the VTM2000 titlemaker as well.
+Vintage Electronics Geek Hi Jack, I wish that I knew this many years ago when I did a lot of taping. But then, it would have costed too much. Perhaps you too can make a vid about yours. Don
+12voltvids You do it wrong. On VHS tapes the video is stored as separate luma and chroma, so you should USE s-video signal to maximize quality.
TBC? What does that stand for? I don't suppose you mean Tuberculosis? Time Base Corrector? I wouldn't use this acronym for Time Base Corrector as in vast majority of the world, this is known acronym for Tuberculosis, which is a nasty medical condition and wouldn't wish anyone to experience it.
@@CZghost Well, I suppose if your conversation is in the medical realm then you are correct, however since the topic / conversation is about video and video correction then the correct acronym is indeed TBC with the meaning of "Time Base Correction". The strange thing about acronyms is they can mean many things at once and in a different light...for example if I said FBI, you would think I may mean "Federal Bureau of Investigations", when in reality I actual mean "Female Body Inspector"! If you were on a farm, then I guess TBC could mean "The Big Chicken", if you are an Elvis Presley fan, then you know he always said TCB, his meaning was "Taking Care of Business"! So, its always best to know what the context is to help you understand the meaning of words. A dictionary and thesaurus maybe your best friend. ~Jack, VEG
Would you think VHS was a superior format i would say NO, VHS had issues like tapes being chewed, eaten, tapes being stuck, tapes detoriating, it was never supposed to be for long term storage, even a new sealed VHS tape will or may have issues with playback, VHS degrades overtime even if never used or is NEW.
Vhs was a home format. The H even means home. VHS. Video home system. It was a horrible low resolution format. We did have a better one betamax but VHS won out and we were stuck with it.