I think it's really important to remember that Elden Ring is not Dark Souls, despite the obvious similarities and comparisons. Dark Souls is a dark fantasy with themes centered around death, decay, the end of the world, etc. It's tense and claustrophobic compared to open world games. It's not so much an adventure as it is navigating and surviving an oppressive world. Elden Ring is more of a high fantasy adventure with dark fantasy elements. Similar to ASoIAF and Berserk. It's about freedom, exploration, and mystery. It's more romantic in a sense, whereas Dark Souls is cynical. They are 2 very different series that appear similar on the surface. The reason tension is missing from Elden Ring is because tension isn't the focus
I'd agree with you that they are very different games now in hindsight. But correct me If I'm wrong here but the marketing behind the game never actually leaned towards explaining that they would be different games did it? So the uninformed souls fan assumed up till release date that Elden Ring was just an open-world take on the souls formula. Atleast Bloodborne and Sekiro went out of their way to differentiate themselves from Dark Souls. Most of Elden Ring's marketing made it look (to me) like it was just a spiritual successor to the Dark Souls series.
@asfandope It's a completely new franchise that's open world, co written by GRRM, and has booming, epic theme music. That was more than enough for me not to expect a Dark Souls 4. This was all in the marketing, especially GRRM's involvement. There was also a network test that showcased what the game was about months in advance. Plus the launch trailer featured Margit's line about the Tarnished being emboldened by ambition, and ambition isn't really a theme I would associate with Dark Souls.
Yeah they’re an evolution of the same formula but definitely different. I like them for different reasons and for different moods. I think yours is a good explanation for it honestly.
Wow great point, the menu theme from dark souls 3 is almost as it's trying to express that your a soldier on one last suicide mission and tying up loose ends
I will replay DS3 way more times than I will Elden Ring. A tight meaningful story and well crafted level design will always beat out flashy magic and forgettable bosses.
From what I've read, Miyazaki plans to dial it back from the open-world formula and his wording (although translated) makes it seem that we may be returning to a more linear world model in the next games. fingers crossed.
@@KyngD469 Funny how DS3 bosses are the ones who are forgotten. While nobody can forget the likes of Malenia, Radahn, Morgott and Radagon. Literally nobody ever talks about DS3 bosses, while Malenia is the most Googled boss and is already much more iconic than any boss in previous games. But sure 5 people who think Elden Ring bosses aren't memorable would disagree
@@Vengeance_I_m You're expressing recency bias and just overall general dissonance with the fandom. People google Malenia for all the wrong reasons. People dont need to google or gush about Gael, they'll never forget that fight. Same goes for Sister Friede. Soul of Cinder, especially it's phase 2. The corruption of Gwyndolyn and Anor Londo in general. The Nameless King. Finding Quelaag's sister. Radagon is a great boss, but is usually overshadowed by the follow up boss that most people dislike. Nobody talks about Morgott. No one. You have to slog through so much just to beat him in 1 try and listen to him whine about the other demigods. Radahn is talked about because of his hype. Not his boss battle. He's a giant that swings around chaotically on his horse. DS3 is already immortalized and it's only been 8 years. Malenia, Miquella, Radahn, Ranni will be remembered for how meme able they were. The Gloam-eyed queen, Melina, Godwynn will be remembered for how unexplored they were. DS3 is the culmination of Dark Souls 1 and 3. Setting up lore, and completing it with a bit left to be desired. It's perfect. The fingers are just a No-name brand version of what Bloodborne did with the Great Ones. Madness is just a TEMU version of Frenzy that had direct ties to to the Great Ones, which ties directly into the message of mankind pursing knowledge they have no business meddling with.
@@Vengeance_I_mI don’t know what you’re talking about. I think the overall community still hails multiple ds3 bosses as the best boss fights in all of the games. Also elden ring attracted more newcomers to the souls series than every other game combined. Of course the most recent bosses to the best selling game would have more google searches than the old ones ☠️ It’s like you didn’t even think about what you were saying before you posted it man. I don’t mean this to be mean but your point just isn’t very thought out. You probably played elden ring as your first souls game so you might not have been in the community back in 2016 but the nameless king was hyped up just as much as Melania was back in those times. Only difference being that 5 million less people were playing ds3 than people who were playing elden ring in 2022.
@@Zakzattak it's definitely easier than most souls games for a number of reasons and while most of those changes were quality of life ones, you can't help but feel something was lost in the process
Wytb? Er bosses are harder than DS3. Yeah, maybe DS3 ones can have better ost, lore, design and atmosphere but at the end of the day ER ones are harder. You can come and tell me that "bu u can cheese in ER", and yeah, same as u can do in DS3. The thing is, in normal terms without OP builds or aids, ER bosses are harder
@asfandope It's not a boss, just a regular giant ogre enemy that uses a brick to beat your ass. The first one encountered pounds on a huge door that the player approaches from the opposite side. It's by the giant bonfire with the werewolf crucified in the flames surrounded by yharnamites.
@@YHShinVH ahhh that one, ok but I was specifically referring to bosses in that timestamp hence my confusion. I think there's several examples of enemies doing something similar to that then.
@@asfandoperight, though I would argue that it's just as good, if not better, at building tension. When I first played it, I expected something monstrous to burst through the door while I dealt with the mob enemies. It really freaked me out
7:24 You can hear Bloodletting beast breathing before you open the door in Bloodbornes chalice dungeons. Also, since they can be randomly generated, scary beasts like the Madman can just come running at you out of the dark with no warning, no matter how much experience you have with the game. DS3 also reuses some of Bloodbornes sound effects. That being said, DS3 was my first souls game and it was my favorite until a few months ago. (I had to wait for Shadow of the Erdtree to decide) Everything you say is true........but mostly for the first playthrough. After that, you aren't going to be scared by the atmosphere anymore because you've already beaten everything. (of course Bloodborne had a solution for that........) I prefer ER because it is so huge that just going to different areas of the game feels like playing a different game. Not being able to warp out of the many dungeons until the boss is beaten is also a source of tension, one that you don't get over with until you've really mastered the game. (beaten it several times so that you remember all of the hard dungeons) No mounts in legacy dungeons and normal dungeons either.
@@DigitalHaze65536 excellent points and I'll be keeping these in mind for my Bloodborne retrospective I'll be doing soon. Also for Elden Ring maybe I leaned too heavily on the hyperbole but Elden Ring definitely has its own version of tension, just not the same flavor as the one that made Dark Souls 3 so iconic for me.
And every other FROM game did it better before DS3, which has way too many bonfires for its own good. It's disappointing to see that the days where you could actually run out of healing are long gone and it's unlikely we'll ever see them again. Souls games used to have tense exploration, now they're strings of bonfires until you reach the next boss.
I don't think anything will ever beat finally beating sister freide and father ariandel, getting a titanite slab, then all of a sudden " When the ashes are two, a flame alighteth "
@@insanecobra9619 it was 3 am when I first beat her second phase, I got up and did a little victory pose... Then I heard the words... And I finally knew true fear.
great video. Imo I always thought this lack of tension was because of the difference in genre. Dark Souls is clearly inspired by dark fantasy media while Elden Ring pulls more from high fantasy, so the overall vibes are inherently different. Dark Souls is menacing, hostile and rotten. Elden Ring may be all those things, but it’s also beautiful, godly and epic (which kinda undercuts all the horror-aspects most times)
That's definitely a major factor though it was interesting change, it wasn't what I came in expecting and until a recent conversation with a friend of mine, I couldn't even figure out why.
Well… DS3 was… very cool. But I will never like anything better than DS1 I think. That was just crazy… gave me so many feelings I never felt before. I remember discovering ash lake. Completely on my own by accident. And I played offline so I didnt have any hints. Its something I will never ever forget.
One? DS3 is better than Elden Ring in general. It’s the same game but with better lore, better levels, better flow, better magic and furthermost - with no boring open world nor shabby mounted combat / travel. EDIT: judging by some responses, ER is baby's first soulslike experience apparently.
In general by which standards? Level design? Not even in dreams Exploration? Elden ring is leagues above that it's not even funny Weapons? Build diversity? Ds2 a game that came before ds3 did it better and elden ring is just more and better of ds2 Combat? Literally the same but at least elden ring added a crouch, jump button, poise is back and combat is more engaging Bosses? Debatable. Ds3 has more balance overall but I would choose any day to fight bosses like rellana, messmer, bayle, Godfrey or mohg Lore, story, npcs, quest??? It's not even a competition lmao. Elden ring is just a bigger world with more memorable quest, npcs, lore and stories. The story is even deeper than all the souls series combined Atmosphere? I like ds3 Atmosphere a lot but it's too dull(for lore reason) imo
@@AtomicZamuraiI would argue Elden Ring NPCs overall aren’t good at all. Most quest-lines feel underbaked, or missed potential (Yura, Diallos, Millicent, Melina) and it‘s hard to get attached to anyone of the characters that aren’t Alexander or Ranni. The story in Elden Ring is also pretty „meh“ but that‘s just me. The rest is great, though.
Elden Ring's story didn't work for me, tbh. The whole vague, mysterious story style works for DS3 because the world is basically dead and all the characters are bordering on insanity. You're just walking through the ruins. Elden Ring on the other hand is a live world with a fully written story from a great author that they cut massive chunks out of to try and seem mysterious, but it really just ends up being lazy, and actively hurts the overall narrative because we're missing so much detail that the plot and characters make zero sense. The story is driven by the actions of characters like Marika, Ranni, Miquella, etc, but these characters are missing so much detail in their stories that they really don't need to be. Dark souls 3 also doesn't really have anything you could clearly call out as bad writing, unlike the ending of shadow of the erdtree. The souls series also had more interesting themes of purpose, cycles, stagnation, the self, and human will, and every character's story reinforced these themes. Elden ring feels far less human in that regard. It's just about a vague space God really having control and a bunch of assholes wanting to be elden lord. The npcs are also a lot less interesting in this regard. I didn't care for any of the npc questlines in ER nearly as much as I did for Hawkwood, Anri, etc. Atmosphere is also subjective, but Ds3's hopeless tone was a lot more memorable imo. Bigger is not always better
Yeah, there is a magic in how DS3 just comes together overall. I'll take a shorter, but more tightly and well designed experience over the unbalanced and long winded one Elden Ring offers.
To me the tension in Dark Souls is too much. I love the gameplay but it's hard for me to get through even one of these games because I get too into it and I feel constant dread and shit jumpscares me left and right. Elden Ring on the other hand has the perfect level of tension and challenge for me and it's precisely due to some of the factors you talk about. First of all, the jump button is literally a game changer. However, what mostly contributes to me feeling more comfortable in Elden Ring is the constant presence of music. This helps so much with me being able to actually concentrate and play the game rather than being afraid to take a step and dreading every second of the experience which mostly consists of me, expecting something to jump out of nowhere and stab me or eat me. The same threats are present in Elden Ring as in Dark Souls but I just don't feel so scared of them because of the soothing music that helps me not get distracted by every movement, clanging or dripping sound in the distance... I also much prefer the colours of Elden Ring to the uniformity of Dark Souls but that's just taste...
@@Dimitar_Tsanev see that's fair though, it's not to everyone's taste and I can appreciate the fact that you found elden Ring easier to approach. I however enjoyed the oppressive atmosphere of Dark souls and found myself enjoying it much more for that reason.
@@asfandope Yeah, definitely. It's always ultimately a matter of taste. I just felt that I can raise a point about how Elden Ring's atmosphere is more to some people's liking, seeing as the overwhelming consensus seems to be that Dark Souls 3 did it best and Elden Ring is just doing it wrong.
@@Dimitar_Tsanev I don't agree with that statement because both games are pretty good. My point was mostly about the change in aesthetic. Mechanically speaking Elden Ring is much better than Dark souls 3.
The older souls games had much more emphasis on tense dungeon crawling, both the levels and bosses had harmony in its difficulty, nowadays the levels are much easier and are more or less just pace breakers before the next boss, sure that allowed for more complex and harder bosses without being way too frustrating(most of the time)but i still miss those harder levels Just beaten original demon souls yesterday, it's pretty wild how much the series changed over the years while also paradoxically remaining very similar
@@junpei6180 yeah I'd agree, some would say the formula has been streamlined, though I'd also agree the dungeon crawling does seem like it's just there for breaking up the pace idk if that's intentional tho
Hi, I came from the Instagram comments section! Your video really brought my attention to the use of buildup and suspense rather than the reveal and exploration style of Elden Ring's design. I would disagree with the statement that Dark Souls' tension was missing from Elden Ring, but rather that they use tension differently. The way that your video led me to think about it was that DS3's linearity gives progress a lot more of a punishing feel, so that the tension spawned is kinda a "can't go back, so we keep going forward" sort of cautious exploration. When I think about the tension, dread, and anticipation I felt playing Elden Ring, so much of it is designed with a destination in mind. You can almost always see where the boss fight takes place from near the beginning of an area. It's like Elden Ring encourages you to progress by holding a mystery out of your reach for you to chase, whereas Dark Souls (esp DS3) encourages you to explore by putting a knife at your back and limiting your options. and ofc like I said on Instagram, the glory of Elden Ring's music does give that heroic feel to the player, but you covered that perfectly. Awesome video! Glad I stumbled across it. Keep making content!
@@choombintheroomb maybe rather than not having tension, it would be better to say it's not executed in a similar way. Thinking about tension in a high fantasy setting versus that of a dark fantasy setting. At a point they'll resonate differently for most people, and I fell into that specific group. I'm glad you were able to find my video, I was actually looking forward to hearing from you. Glad you could make it.
I love elden ring to death. It is an evolution of the formula with many amazing aspects. But I’ve recently been replaying DS3 after finishing the DLC just like you and I still like it more than ER. Elden Ring is supposed to be bigger and better in all aspects, but for some reason, I feel a lot more immersed in DS3. The atmosphere, sound design, bosses, soundtrack and characters just make it more appealing to me. For some reason I feel warmth in this dying and hopeless more linear world. Great video!
@@CaptainKoosh pretty much the same as me then, just something about the vibe of the game just feels amazing. No shade on Elden Ring tho it's still really solid.
@@asfandope thanks for saving me the time. i disagree of course. the only reason i played ds3 as much as i did was the bosses. the enemy placement/ganks/traps can suck my right nut.
@@asfandope ok. thanks for saving me the time. i disagree of course. i think thats the worst part about ds3. theyre way overdone. they become a commodity. an hour into the playthrough you just know theres an enemy behind the corner. it doesnt surprise you anymore. you see an enemy out in the open, you try to aggro it with a bow, and it doesnt run to you. it just sits there behind a shield. ok this is obviously a trap/gank. except i have no agency over it. i cant engage the trap my own way to even the odds. i have to trigger the gank and fight at a disadvantage. even on subsequent playthroughs you know the trap is there and theres nothing you can do about it except just fight it. its dumb. dark souls 3 is remembered fondly for its boss fights. the enemy placement and ganks can suck my right nut.
@@Apoxiosis haha I don't disagree about the ganks, my video mostly focuses on the aspect of immersion with the atmospheric design and bosses. Enemies are hardly mentioned for what it's worth.
I like how you frame a lot of the points in this video, with the enclosed and claustrophobic setting of Dark Souls where you don't know where you are, where you're going, and what is going to kill you next. I don't fully agree with your analysis of elden ring in comparison, but you make really good points about how the world is framed. My major disagreements (and they are just that, I respect your points and they are quite valid here) is that you boil down a lot of elden ring just to the open work exploration. If you compare something like the main world of Caelid to Irythill of the Boreal Valley, the tension in Caelid isn't quite as strong. At the same time, a more apt comparison would be comparing the legacy dungeons to the major zones. Places like Stormveil Castle or Leyndell are much more apt comparisons that do draw on the same kind of "oh shit where am I going next" and can even exceed many/most of the areas in DS3 while being much more expansive and having more varied and completely independent routes around that give that sense of dread. Similarly, you talk about the world design in ds3 showing you an area and then getting more and more fine-point in where to go, and you use Caelid as another example of how it didn't give the same level of atmosphere, but I remember when I first jumped over the fire wall near the burning church and saw the wasteland that is Caelid, with the expansive swamp in the middle and castles in the distance, and it hit me just as much as many of ds3 reveal areas (not even mentioning the haligtree, liurnia of the lake, or the dlc, which are some of the top tier area introductions in fromsoft history) Also not even mentioning the sewers and catacombs as the exact fear foils you talked about with the Irythill Dungeon So much of your interpretation (and again, this is just my opinion versus yours, so grain of salt and all) feels like "elden ring big so elden ring diluted" without actually dissecting the sections that elden ring does much better, even with the open world playing against it. Having just played both elden ring and ds3 within the last few weeks through both, the boss design, enemy design, and boss move set are much more diverse, adaptive, and exciting in elden ring. The critique that I'm surprised that you didn't mention (and may be a low hanging fruit at this point) is the repetition of elden ring detracting from the individual experiences, but the actual boss interactions (standalone, not weighed with multiples) are far more cinematic, fast paced, thematic, and honestly difficult. Moments like finding Margit the Fell Omen at a low level (as they pretty much expect you to do) make him into this looming threat that seems completely impossible at first. DS3 has moments like this as well, but to say that it exclusively has it over elden ring is missing numerous major fights in the game, some locking significant amounts of content behind them (Margit, Morgott, Radahn, Fire Giant, Maliketh, even Astel and the Draconic Tree Sentinal) I think that the more linear design of DS3 gives more direct interfacing of strong level design to strong level design; however, elden ring has more, debatably stronger content that progression locks sections rather than direct paths forward. Good video though, I hope you keep up the vibe of this!!! All of this is my personal critiques, and my experiences are quite different. Like I tried starting with DS1 and got walled until I played through elden ring and then ds2 bloodborn ds3, so by ds3 I was an experienced player instead of learning things for the first time. Something that makes MAJOR differences! Edit: Forgot to also mention the major vibe changes between having to homeward bone and travel at bonfires vs teleporting where ever, and how Torrent being there makes atmosphere significance when they are taken away in legacy dungeons and such.
Solid points throughout, at the end of the day the video was based on my own personal insight and experiences with the game. It was left open ended to allow people like yourself to chime in, since I don't pretend to know-all and I agree with most of your major points and should've gone for more details, especially direct legacy dungeons comparisons between the two games. I'll probably keep these notes in mind for whenever I decide to do a deep analysis of Elden Ring. Thanks for sharing though, these comments only help me improve as a writer and creator.
@@asfandope One of my favorite parts about these games is the kind of discussions that we as a community can have about them, and how varied our experiences with them really can be. They all come from a deep love of the series, and this kind of open conversation really gives a chance for us all to show our own appreciation.
i get that same feeling even after my dozens of playthroughs, especially in consecrated snowfield when ariundel dlc starts, the fear and mystery of whats infront of you and the wolves creeping nearby
I think the music in ER is used to describe the areas, also, most of the light is from the erdtree, it helps the game to describe you are near something divine. I found ER more intimidating than DS3, but just that.
i miss simple gem. He is restore my mana based on my weapon upgrade. My fifth run was for mage and this gem slowly becoming effective and second half of run was a pure fun.
I heavily disagree. Giving DS3 praise is fine, but this is too much (undeserved) praise. Every effort DS3 makes to apply tension is undermined by easy, forgiving combat. While the atmosphere and aesthetic of DS3 are more ominous, which definitely contributes to a sense of tension, it is still oddly heroic. Perhaps not as a result of the atmosphere, but because of the feats (defeating gods and former lords) you accomplish... with ease. See, Dark Souls 3 is extremely lenient in combat, as you can dodge roll or quickstep away from your problems. Your invincibility period during rolls is very long, and distance covered by rolls is very good, even better at light equip load. Hardly anything rollcatches you even when you panic roll. Elden Ring is the opposite in this regard. Combat in ER feels tense because any mistake you make can spiral into more mistakes or death, even against regular enemies. Range and timing are far more important in ER too, crucial to survival - whereas in DS3, weapon range, outspacing, and good timing only enhance your ability to fight, being just a boon instead of a necessity. This also makes exploration a bit of a joke. If you rush in with no plan like a fool, you'll find the game difficult, obviously. If you have decent observation and even a semblance of a plan, the game becomes extremely easy. Not quite so in Elden Ring where regular enemies are still quite threatening and ambushes are generally deadlier. But I guess you could just make an overpowered build and steamroll Elden Ring. ...Not like Straight Swords don't already do that to DS3, but whatever.
I agree with you, but I’d say for a new player who hasn’t been initiated to the combat and system of fromsoft games. Dark souls 3 is way more scary and tense. In both games you’d still get bullied but in elden ring, the presentation is more of an adventure and exploration before taking on the challenges while in DS3 it feels like the game is trying to break you and make you give up.
the atmosphere of ds3 isnt supposed to be tense. it's supposed to be oppressively morbid and tragic for lore reasons that i imagine you probably know, and it's my favourite personally. ds3s combat is probably the only thing i can criticise ds3 for though. it is very forgiving and weapon arts being useless is stupid but still feels extremely nice and snappy to play. it's still a damn near masterpiece in my eyes
@@Ashlevon I wouldn't disagree about the combat, cause mechanically speaking Elden ring definitely does things better than dark souls 3. But considering the moodiness and dark fantasy aesthetic that DS3 goes for compared to the more high fantasy style that is prevalent in Elden ring. I'd still have to say (imo) that DS3 feels like the more tense experience. Both games are great, DS3 is just more iconic for me.
FYI they're different games made at different times. They made 3 Dark Souls and wanted to try something different instead of making rhe same game over and over again. I dont know why people are so obsessed about comparing them. Enjoy both for what they are.
Great video I loved it ! My take is that dark souls 3 carries a heavy sense of hopelessness. As you said it's the end of the world and everyone is dying. In elden ring we are in a stagnant world, it's not the same thing. No one is dying because no one can die, no demi gods rose above the others and nothing has changed in an age, that's why the tarnished is here. Not to save the world because the world isn't at the end of it's age like in dark souls, but to bring an end to it's stagnation, just to "do something, bad or good" like queen Marika said. So I don't think these two games can be compared objectively in terms of ambiance, lightning or sound design. They carry completely different moods because the state of the world and our role in it are completely different, we're not a last resort savior, we're literally a hero. Also, maybe it's just my take on it, but the way I see it, dark souls 3 is naratively more the story of the world than the story of the ashen one, whereas in elden ring it's the story of the one tarnished that rose up against the gods.
@@litneg4 I would 100% agree that the world setting is more of the main character than you. You're just some guy amongst who knows how many ashen ones that have been summoned before hand. It's literally scraping the bottom of the barrel because there's no other sources of hope.
I definitely agree with this Elden Ring’s atmosphere felt diluted compared to DS1+3 and Bloodborne. They’re all incredible games but I legitimately think if you want the best Fromsoft experience it’s Bloodborne. The atmosphere, tension, and combat are cranked up to 11.
I will have to critique one thing, dark souls 3 is not dark at all, the torch is near useless in ds3 It fails utterly in making dark scary areas like tomb of giants in ds1 or dark chalice dungeons in bloodborne Ds3 even on the lowest brightness is clearly visible. The carthus catacombs nor irythil dungeon requires any torch, they both are decently lit Id recommend looking at one of the early gameplay reveal trailer of ds3, much darker thats been toned down heavily. Even basic caves in elden ring are darker
@@xsubzerox3412 that's fair, though if you look at Elden ring as whole you'd notice that it presents that darkness without nearly as much of the ambience as you'd have seen in any of the previous games. The caves are dark yes, but they suffer from a lack of ambience which was much better done in most of the dark souls games.
@@asfandope I wouldn't say the ambiance is carthus catacombs is that great, the only ambiance it had was the sound of walking on bones, and moving skeleton bones. Mind you I'm not disagreeing that the older souls games have great ambiance, in fact I'd argue ds3 has weaker ambiance than the original demon souls. Irythil dungeon is a poor man's tower of Latria, I do recommend u to watch a video of the original and not remake of demon souls, cause the remake changes too much of the sound scape in that level specifically As the series moved forward, baring bloodborne, the souls games kept losing their horror/tension aspect
@@xsubzerox3412 haha yes I remember OG Latria, can't tell you how many times I rage quit on that part. Considering how Miyazaki has talked about the direction he plans on moving forward we could see a better direction when it came to ambiance. Though I will highlight my bias towards DS3 since it was my introduction to fromsoft games.
Adjust monitor and contrast? What's the problem if you are asked to calibrate your monitor from the very beginning to get a better atmosphere. And yes, there are enough dark places in DS 3, most likely your monitor initially has a high black level, which should not be.
Yes. That's because ER is supposed to be a different game. And your arguments for DS3 only work for the first playthrough when you don't know what's going on yet
Ive only played dark souls 1 but man do I agree soo much with what you've said. I even started elden ring couple of times but it always felt like I was hoping for something back from DS 1 and its exactly what youve said! Well said and keep up the brilliant work!
I don’t even understand how they are even talking about 3 instead of 1. No other souls born game can touch the fist 1/2 of dark souls but your cutting yourself short if you don’t play the rest of them there all better them most games out there
@@mitchhartsell4448 That's fair, I just haven't managed to finish dark souls 2 yet, but I'm with you on that and will be giving it a try again soon. I plan to make a video specifically on that game in the near future as well. Though most probably going to looking into bloodborne next.
@@A.R0YYY Here's a counter point: BB and Sekiro were different to Elden Ring mechnically. Elden Ring is literally based on the same mechanics as Dark Souls series so it's a more apt comparison. Therefore it is fair to compare those two games to each other.
Most of the things you’re describing are what it feels like in Elden ring, too. Maybe there’s not as much tension because it’s open world, but you have limited heals, lose all souls/runes and everything in between, too. I’ve played both and I love both, but let’s be real. Other than the story, Elden ring is Dark souls open world. Both amazing for what they are.
I don't usually comment on YT videos, but this is just too good to pass by. Even though I love Elden Ring, I couldn't agree more with you. Keep up the good work!
The one thing that I don't think anyone really talks about but truly sets apart the tension between the souls games and elden ring is the ui(especially the stamina). In dark souls 1 especially fights are like a dance in which you push forward, attack, and then pull out with just enough stamina to spare. You have to steal glances at the small bar in your top right that's so short it feels like it could drop to zero at any second. But in elden ring I literally never once had to worry about my stamina, it goes from a dance of going in then pulling out to going in and in and in and then after many attacks you just move slightly away and you can go in again. The healthbar is so large that you can tell about how much you have left without even looking directly at it. Of all the changes on the souls formula made for elden ring, that was the one that truly convinced me that this was a different experience. Not worse, just different.
@@burstspark5311 I'd agree I barely had a chance to look at my stamina bar in DS, but in Elden ring I had way too much time. Definitely took away from the experience.
Stamina management is way more important in ds2 than ds1 since 2 or more consecutive rolls in ds2 would cost extra stamina reduction whereas in ds1 the amount of stamina taken is just the same but multiplied. Ds2 is even way more brutal because stamina recovery will be slower if you've previously drained your whole stamina instead of sparing them a little bit. Also when you're running out of stamina, your character will be in this exhaustive state where you can't sprint until your stamina is fully recharged again. They even create the animation for this. I just wanted to say this because there are not many people who know about these hidden mechanics. But yeah, in general both of these games still require you to manage your stamina unlike in ds3, bb, or elden ring. This makes ds1 and ds2's combat feel more methodical and grounded compared to ds3, bb, or elden ring.
This whole video would be more legit if you stated everything as your opinion and personal observation. The way you stated things makes it sound like everything is generally agreed-upon. Sure there are people that feel the same way as you but there are also a lot of people who don’t see it your way, and I certainly do not either. All the statements like “you don’t feel the dread that every fight could be your death and every enemy is dangerous” do not stand true for me. Because I felt that. I felt the fear of running out of heals, of loosing my runes. The learning of bosses consumed hours. If that has not happened to you, okay. But it’s not something most players, that I know, feel. The only general point you have is the use of music in ER vs DS3, I can agree with you on that. I have played all the souls games before, so it’s not like “Elden Ring is may baby don’t badmouth it”. My favorite souls game is actually DS3. But most of your points are personal experience and should be stated as such. And that is what I am missing in this essay is
@@tillsommerdrums noted, I'll be sure to add a disclaimer for future videos. As I did use words like feel a lot in this video but I guess it came off as more "matter of fact"
I find myself going back to ds3 more often than Elden ring because I don’t have to run around for 2 hours collecting all the sacred tears in ds3, just right into the action, I could probably beat it in an afternoon if I didn’t get distracted pvping behind pontif every time
That's probably my reasoning for enjoying ds3 more too. I still think Elden Ring is great...when in the legacy dungeons. But the open world aspect dilutes the fluidity of previous entries.
I think Dark Souls 3 did do atmoshere and map building better tbh, i think the smaller more detailed areas work a lot better for Souls games. It also feels a lot less of a chore to run through the game each time due to it being more smaller and confined, as much as i do like a lot of the things Elden Ring did i just didnt care for the legacy dungeons as much and having to run through the map each time especially after the DLC released
@@pripyatghuul true I really wish they could've gone with a more semi-open world for Elden ring cause I think this formula of games works best in that kind of design if not linear
@@icebb8856 yep I agree, it's pretty much what I mentioned in the video itself. Elden ring ain't bad, but it suffers from the fact that it follows the souls series and people were always gonna feel slightly jarred by the change in aesthetic.
Ds3 has some of the most memorable bosses of any fromsoft game for me. Pontiff sulyvahn, lothric and Lorian, the demon princes, champion gundyr, nameless king, sister friede, gael, and Darkeater Midir are all very memorable for me! All a pain in the ass to fight but all amazing fights!
I vividly remember the day I beat Midir, my roommates cheered me on and we had a group hug celebrating beating him as I was the first one to take him down in our group. Elden Ring has some great bosses sure, but there's just something about DS3 bosses that I can't get over.
compared to ER, you could say this about all dark souls games, not just ds3. ds1 in particular had the most oppressive atmosphere imo. ds2 had a more vibrant feel, but was still very tense. still can’t forget the first time i went through frigid outskirts.
@@brohan24 fair point, though for me personally DS3 stands out since it was my introduction into the souls series and the one I've played the most out of the trilogy.
Elden Ring feels like an actualized fantasy epic in line with Tolkien, Jordan, and Martin. It allows you so much more freedom to explore and it let's you take your time to do so. Dark Souls has always had that sense of urgency pushing you forward. You have to link the fire or else the world perishes. The game doesn't allow you to breathe much between areas. The grand vistas in Dark Souls are rarely moments to enjoy the beauty of the world. Instead, it favors showing you the challenges that lie ahead and where your next boss encounter will be.
Agreed, I still enjoyed my time with Elden Ring. But still, I can't help but reminisce about the good ol' DS3 days just cause I appreciated the dark aesthetic a lot more.
It's dark, oppressive, eerie and creepy....until you experience PVP and invasion shenanigans after a hundred or so hours of finally getting good then the game just feels like home...except the poison swamps. Fuck the poison swamps
From has been on a continuous trend of decreasing tension in its games, and this trend had already progressed far by the time DS3 came out. The most tense, nerve-wracking environments and moments imo are heavily concentrated in Demon's Souls. DS1 already represents a significant drop in tension from DeS imo, but it is still high, and papable. DS2, with its beautiful Majula, warping from the start, pushover bosses, lack of intimidating special enemies like Black knights, Titanite Demons, and Hydras, and areas that don't beg much for shortcuts and retreading - already let the bottom fall out on the tension. Then DS3, there's only token influence of the environment and effects like darkness etc, and the gameplay is primarily nonstop, unorganized, highspeed combat rather than exploration paced with individuated encounters. Areas are mostly holders for armies of enemies. Constant warping. Bonfires every 2 minutes. Tension is already eviscerated. Elden Ring's chillaxin overworld is just the death certificate, making the most of it with at least an alternative vibe to replace it.
@@philosophyofiron9686 pretty accurate though I think you forgot to mention their best game when it came to tension: Bloodborne. That game was imo tension perfected.
@@asfandope I didn't include BB because I find it a bit confounding where it fits into all of this, haha. For me, DeS's area design, mechanics (healing, encumberance, weapon breakage, spirit form, world tendency) and atmospherics still make it reign supreme in terms of tension, but Bloodborne's iteration was certainly powerful. I think part of why BB doesn't strike me as in the top tier for tension is the power arc pacing. Like, the beginning hours of BB were extremely tense and intimidating for me, the sense of dread palpable. However, after I killed Vicar Amelia and entered the woods, the assymetry between my character and the enemies and bosses began to fall off a cliff, such that I was rapidly more and more able to walk around with a degree of confidence I could handle whatever happens to jump out. The visuals are still unsettling, but the real threat of harm is tolerable- and this is someone who barely levels HP, lol. This happens on every playthrough, with different builds. If the whole game felt like the opening > Gascoigne and Amelia, then yeah, it'd probably be the top for me, haha. Demon's (2009) for me, DOES always feel distinctly uncomfortable, in every area + the hub, from start to finish. PS5 Demon's quite a bit less so, but still significant.
@@philosophyofiron9686 ok that's fair, but what's your opinion on the overall aesthetic and vibe of the game as a whole since you mostly went into detail about the gameplay which is significant but not the only thing that causes tension. Like lighting, music and ambience.
@@asfandope The sound design is incredible, and indeed, BB does the best at creating tension in that way. Even the sound of the lanterns - which are supposed to be our safe spots of breaths of fresh air - have this unsettling, otherwordly vibe. They're like lighthouses stranded and swamped in a dark and stormy ocean, with their shine (and ring) doing more to emphasize the ill-omened darkness of the tempest than to convey the safety of the tiny haven in its midst. I once saw someone else say that music-wise, the music in Hunter's Dream contributes to this safe hub always feeling a little bit "off," a little uncanny, and uncomfortable. I wholly agree. And as unsettled as I was just going to level up and change my blood gems, the game is better for it, in much the same way DS1 is better for the basilisk threat in The Depths. With regards to the overall aesthetic, my initial reaction on first playthrough was that the dark, Victorian gothic horror feel was executed on brilliantly, but the lack of variety hurt the experience. I was always craving to see something new - a broader range of applications of the unifying feel of the game, like we got in DS1, between locations like The Depths, Blighttown, The Great Hollow, Ash Lake, The Catacombs, Tomb of the Giants, Darkroot Garden/Basin, and Oolacile. However, my view modified on later playthroughs. B/c on first playthrough, BB had scared me out of thoroughly exploring early on, and then turned out to be short, with an abrupt ending, I'd missed going back for and getting to discover a ton of content- namely, Hemwick, Nightmare Frontier, Cainhurst, and Upper Cathedral Ward. These additions did make the game feel more like it had sufficient variety and fluctuations of mood (not to mention Fishing Hamlet, in the DLC). Furthermore, I think it eventually clicked what Miyazaki's vision may have been for Bloodborne as a whole; part of the reason so much of BB looks and feels samey maybe be that is it's meant to feel like a dauntingly frightful, labrynthine, claustrophic nightmare maze of endless interweaving and convolutedly branching, diverging and interlocking dark passageways, stairwells, alleys, bridges, ladders, gates, etc. that all disorientingly blur together in a neverending night- a vision that seems to harken back to the feel of certain difficult and nerve-wracking N64 era sidescrollers. If that was the goal, From executed pretty damned well on it, and the relentless and stifling oppressive similarity of scenery and retreading of spaces is a critical element to that achievement.
@@philosophyofiron9686 I always thought it was designed that way to feel like a fever dream, dreams often look and feel the way the map in Bloodborne feels.
While Elden RIng is an amazing game, I still think that Dark Souls 3, and 1 did something, that will never be recreated. But I think it's okay that Elden Ring is not dark souls. It's not supposed to be Dark Souls. What I dislike in Elden Ring is the lack of creative Vision. Elden Ring feels like it was created to suit the mainstream, while dark souls 1, 3 and Demon's Souls was created to fulfill a cerain vision miyazaki had, no matter how it would be recieved. When I finished Elden Ring I felt nothing. When I finished dark souls 1 and 3, I felt everything.
As for game play it’s hard to beat Elden ring it takes from all of the souls born. As for atmosphere that’s up to the individual and probably the one you play first will leave more of a impression on you. that’s why bloodborne the best lol.
There's a reason I didn't go too deep into comparing the gameplay, more of the design choices. Elden Ring is still an excellent game, I just wanted to discuss vibes and aesthetics of the games. And of course Bloodborne is still king, can't wait for the sequel (copium)
I personally believe that ds1 has an even more prominent sense of tension, as in ds3 the bonfires are placed with a lot less intention. The best thing about ds3 that far surpasses Elden ring is it’s balancing, as you have to intentionally keep yourself on a hyperspecific path for Elden ring to be balanced, while ds3 is perpetually balanced without having to be worried about under/overlevelling.
@@Kqman that's true, ds1 did have the more prominent tension, but since DS3 was the game I had played most recently I chose to talk about it specifically. This video could've just as easily been about DS1 or DS2 instead and most of the points would hold.
To be fair, Elden Ring’s first experience is something that cannot be replicated, it had its tension when visiting new areas, but oh boy DS3 is an S Tier experience even if you play again
I have to agree with you on this. Especially the music part, I can still remember the feeling when hearing the boss music from dark souls bosses like Gael, Friede, Gaping dragon, the pursuer, etc. However in Elden Ring most of them aren’t that remarkable, the ones that I remember being Godricks, Hoarah loux and Midra, however these are the only ones that resonate with the “tension” that Dark Souls bosses osts have
This is a cluttered game and not a terribly aesthetic experience. However, it is a significant achievement in developing all the great game mechanics of Elden Ring. Of the three, I find the first Dark Souls the most amusing to play though Demon Souls runs it close.
Honestly on a technical level I agree with you. The main reason I remember this one so fondly is because it was my first exposure to the souls genre, I got to play 1 and 2 later and I've only played the remake of Demon Souls, so I can't speak for the OG demon souls. Sure there's parts of it that could've worked better, but as the closing entry for a great trilogy I'd definitely say it holds a special place in my heart. Even though on recent replays, DS1 is much more enjoyable just because of supreme level design.
@@asfandope it's still a bit better than Sekiro too, which is far too finicky to master. I'm not a Bloodbourne fan either, that game mostly feels dumb with no parrying.
@@culturespot75 I see where you're coming from, though I personally feel that Bloodborne is the most complete fromsoft experience that they have ever delivered (I'm personally a big fan of it and it's setting, soundtrack and so on). Having said that I can see how removing the parrying from the situation would've made the game redundant.
@@zura1. It never really hit me until after I finished it and I couldn't shake this feeling of "huh...I was expecting something more". It originally made me feel dumb cause the game is twice the length of ds3 atleast.
I feel like I have quite a lot of disagreements here and I feel like a thesis like this lends no credibility to Elden Ring due to the lack of research or other perspectives. Such as the argument with tension and saying that it’s something that defines DS3, but ignoring the many uses of it in Elden Ring like with the crows and dogs in Caelid, the revenant path in Elphael, the oppressive design of Stormveil and when you get locked in the room by Gostoc, the zombies in Raya Lucaria that catch you by surprise and take away one of your most important resources at that moment, or likewise with the zombies in Elphael, or the black dumpling albinaurics in Volcano Manor. After that is the discussion of atmosphere and darkness and again there’s almost no representation of what makes the world of Elden Ring stressful, like the foggy atmosphere of Aeonia, the dead giants, Ekzykes and her dead babies lining the southern edge of the swamp, or the dead dragons in Dragonbarrow. Perhaps also Farum Azula with the grim atmosphere relating to burial practices and dead beastmen. Or maybe that Aeonia leads you to this super mysterious magic town full of these like apparitions and behind that is a church and a big graveyard full of those that would’ve died there, or even the cave it leads to as well that uses darkness to its advantage as well. Or just that with Elden Ring generally being more colorful it can go for a messed up vibrant look that a place like Caelid or Volcano manor with all the blood or Elphael with all the orange decaying plants everywhere to enrich it in its own kind of atmosphere that can seem unsettling without relying on just darkness or nearly monotone color schemes. There’s other things that help the tension and vibe like massive creatures like runebears in Mistwood, the giant lobsters in Liurnia, the Trolls usually in the slightly established looking settlements, or deliberately strange areas and design decisions like Dominula with the freaky cult followers or finger creepers, or the crying wormfaces in Altus. There’s so many examples of ways that Elden Ring enriches its atmosphere that isn’t mentioned here, and I feel like it’s not intentional but due more to being willfully oblivious.
@@Aiden-Ed I see your points and while I agree that Elden ring had definitely used tension in many of its areas, it simply failed to have the same level of tense atmosphere and feeling for me due to the fact that is was presented in an almost high fantasy beautiful sort of aesthetic compared to the drab dark aesthetic that had defined the dark souls trilogy. And yes that includes the areas and enemies you mentioned. While I understand the statement that it was due to a lack of research, most souls fans have Elden Ring fresh in their minds and whole new generation of gamers have probably never even played the original trilogy. I strongly disagree about the colour palette as it's been something that has defined the souls trilogy and while I can certainly appreciate Elden rings diverse colour palette, it was the almost monotone effect of Dark souls that landed well to this atmosphere of a world at the end of its rope. Also one last thing: my style of writing is left a little open-ended to allow for conversations such as this as we all have different opinions and I'd like my channel to be a place where we can share them in a civil manner. I'm sure you didn't mean to sound that way, could just be me reading into it a little too much, but I couldn't help but feel your tone was a little condescending. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong about that.
@@asfandopeI made that last comment because I feel like you use many many more examples from Dark Souls 3 than examples of what Elden Ring does to put its own take on a vibe. Personally I am happy they can have more themes than stuff that’s only horror adjacent, but can still appeal to the people who want it. But there’s also other stuff in it to break up the monotony. And it’s a similar style anyways. Like if we use Leyndell as an example, it is a big golden beautiful city, but when you get deeper into it and look into its surroundings you see those who died in the war in form of golden skeletons that can fly, or when you get to the run down part of Leyndell with the undead and black dumplings you will find the disgusting secret of the city and of Marika, that a whole race is sent down there to rot and die, two in fact, along with other enemies of Marika like the revenants and their followers. It lends itself to a seriously messed up vibe that I don’t see much of anywhere else in the series because it uses this plot of gods and demigods not being morally correct. And also just a few points in the video not really standing in my opinion with stuff like the omen duo which honestly kinda creeped me out with it being in the pitch darkness, the forbidden lands that obscures the vulgar militia which are also small enemies that can quickly overwhelm you, or the oppressive atmosphere of flame peak and the yeti type giants and crows and finger creepers once again. I’m not saying this to be rude but I just found the video very biased and again deliberately ignoring what Elden Ring does to give itself an atmosphere that conjures the intensity of old fromsoft games while having its own, with the face of the game being about gods and gold; which I think is an awesome theme, about corrupt gods trying to seem pristine or “golden” but you look into the cracks of the foundation in their thought processes, which is where you find the atrocities committed in game and you get to experience the places that these horrors are happening in.
@@Aiden-Ed ok when you put it that way it makes a lot more sense. But I'd still argue that while the atmosphere of places like leyndell, offer a juxtaposition of a bright golden fortress/city with death and decay surrounding it, the aesthetic for Dark souls lended itself more to a completely decayed world. Hence it played more like a dark fantasy in contrast to the high fantasy feeling of Elden ring. The sense of tension felt more visceral in Dark souls compared to that in Elden Ring. Hence I didn't say that Elden ring lacked tension, that is simply not true. Rather the way it was presented didn't leave me personally with that feeling of dread and anxiety the way something like Dark souls did. Also sorry if I came off a little hostile in my last comment. This is an interesting discussion and topic for me and id rather we kept it civil.
Dark Souls fans need to understand that Elden Ring is not Dark Souls please understand that yes fromsoft reuses ideas for healing, combat and travel that doesnt make the games the same. They can make different games not everything is suppose to be like Dark Souls. And you should rewatch the Trailer it didnt give any sense of tension or dread it gave a sense of a heroic journey. They cant make the same music for a different title. You kinder need to agree that Dark Souls have 3 games world building and the story was refined more after each title, I think comparing DS3 to ER is something Dark Soul fans need to stop doing. Dark Souls is amazing great better than most games out there but Elden Ring tops it all aspects of what it tries to do
Looks like the engagement bait title did its job. "The ONE thing" farmed a ton of engagement in comments because of how it comes across. Not sure if it was on purpose or he fkd around and found out.
This feels kind of off base and doesnt really adequately describe or analyze the games lineage or each games unique character: sweeping orchestral score way overstates the presence of the musical ambience in Elden Ring, the background music is far from that, it is, at most, auditory texture, that lacks enough density and specificty to distract or detract from the sound effects, especially when we consider how often periods of silence punctuate these slow and sustained chords; another minor layer was added to the soundscape, but the focus on environmental sounds was not reduced. Further, reducing the scale to ds3 and elden ring prevents us from meaningfully assessing the actual identity of dark souls 3, especially when things we discuss about ds3 might have better points of comparison in earlier titles. Ds3 and elden ring are the closest to eachother combat wise than any other in the series! Demons, dark 1 and 2 and bloodborne are much better points of discussion on that front.
Ds3' bonfire placement is almost comically close in comparison to its predecessors! There is also no discussion of environmental weight and the way the approach to these matters is handled... ds3 was part of the process of that /loss/.
Hey sorry for the late reply, I'm gonna try and address most of your points best I can. Sure I could've gone deeper into the broader context of some of the other titles in Fromsoft's catalog, but I felt DS3 being one of the first entry points for a lot of people including myself made it an interesting starter for the broader conversation of how Elden Ring differs from the previous titles. Also compared to the soundscapes of DS3 which usually comprise of little more than background noises mixed with elemental noises (wind,water and so on), it's not inaccurate to compare it to Elden Ring's much more detailed and (for lack of a better term) broader soundscape with musical instruments added in. I'll agree that I may have over exaggerated my point but comparing something that is as minimal as DS3's soundscape to something like Elden Ring's, I simply failed to find the right word to describe it properly. My bad on that. Now I don't fully agree about my argument being offbase, but i'll grant you that I could've been more in-depth which I plan to in future entries when I tackle the Fromsoft catalog as a whole.
People need to appreciate each of these games for what they do best and stop trying to force them to be like each other (in thr way you want most). There's obviously mechanical and artistic overlap but every game since Demon's Souls (including DS2) has presented a new alternative to what's been shown before, with enough overlap that it feels familiar. Elden Ring is a TTRPG cosmic fantasy setting thrown into a sandbox, and I think it offers the best faction interactions, some of the best lore, and an underrated cast of main characters and supporting roles who all shape the geography, geology, archeology, historiography, history and mystery of The Lands Between. The setting feels alive, or maybe undead is a better personification, in bigger and more intimate ways than even Greater Yharnam and the Ashina Lands.
@@geordiejones5618 that's why you'll notice how I never said one game was better than the other in the video (correct me if I'm wrong). I only talked about a design choice that has originally made me fall in love with the souls formula that I found lacking in Elden ring, a game I still very much enjoyed after 5 different playthroughs.
The funny thing is about Souls- DD2 Majula is the best music in the entire series, regardless of the gameplay lagging behind the rest.....I'll never forget Majula. I do also love the hub music for ds3 but MJula takes the cake. BTW, excellent video brother.
Very well done video! DS3 is my favorite Dark Souls game and you pretty much describe exactly why. DS3 also has some of my all time favorite boss fights, like Nameless King, Gael, Sister Friede, Pontiff Sulyvahn, Soul of Cinder, Abyss Watchers, etc. So many excellent boss fights!
@@deogracias9869 ahhh, I had a feeling. It's true though, we can discuss the games differences but most folk tend to get really emotional and turns into a you Vs me mentality. Never quite got why.
Can't really speak to which one is the better game as they both provide very unique experiences that will resonate with different people. I love them both to death, but in terms of the overall vibe and presentation of its themes, I prefer DS3. It's a beautiful conclusion to the trilogy. It does such a phenominal job of showing a world that's more dead than alive at this point. A world you're told you should preserve even though everything you see screams at you to just let go. And that's ultimately what the game is about. DS3 is almost an anti - "hero's journey". You start as a weak ashen one, being tested by beings more powerful than you, and you become powerful enough to link the flame, fulfilling your duty, and for what? There is no grand conclusion like in Elden Ring or even DS1. If you link the flame, you're just delaying the inevidable. No new kingdom will rise. No new age of prosperity. Just the prolonging of a sickly world that should have died long ago. Man just thinking about it gives me chills. And don't get me started on the "End of fire" ending. Simply one of the most beautiful endings to a game ever imo. God I love DS3 😭
@@soulsborne1513 you pretty much hit the nail on the head there for me too. DS3 is the absolute perfect conclusion to an excellent trilogy. Yes even DS2 with all it's enemy placement issues has its perks. I remember someone in the comments said something that blew my mind: In the start of ds1 the first enemy you face is a hollow with a broken blade. In DS3 DLC (The end of the trilogy), the last enemy you face is a hollow with a broken blade "Gael". I just love how the game came full circle and it's so amazing how this game's story and everything about it have stood the test of time. We'll probably never have something like Dark souls again, Elden Ring is great and all, but it still doesn't beat Dark Souls thematically.
@@asfandope I've never actually thought of the "hollow with a broken sword" thing, but that's actually really cool. Even though it was probably unintentional, it is a great full circle moment. But yeah, Dark Souls 3 is a special game. As a gameplay experience it's not perfect, it's not even my favourite soulsborne game. That spot is reserved for Bloodborne, and possibly Shadow of the Erdtree. But it really is an extrordinary piece of storytelling.
@@soulsborne1513 it's probably one of the best games Fromsoft has ever put out. Planning on doing a video on that as well soon. Hope I'll see you there.
Makes me realize that this lack of tension is something i appreciate in elden ring. Same way the world is less bleak for lore reasons. Elden ring is less dark i guess. Bloodborne too was very muddy.
I've played all souls games, I have even played all their predecessors (the "king's field" and "shadow tower" series). There are things in the KF games that I miss on the souls series (tension? you don't know what's tension if you haven't reached the Big Mines in KF 2 or if you haven't played KF 4 or Shadow Tower at all lol). There are things in the souls games that I miss on Elden Ring. You've said it: the atmosphere. I prefer the dark atmosphere of DS (and even Bloodborne) over the High fantasy heroic vibes of Elden Ring (that's why I LOVED the DLC atmosphere). Still, ER is my favorite among all of them, including the predecessors. And that's ok. I think is really awesome (dare I say, magical?) that ER didn't overshadowed the other souls games. I can still go back to DS1, Demons' Souls and even KF, and enjoy that experience as something unique to those games.
Agreed, I plan on addressing that in a future video as well. Shadow of the Erdtree as a whole feels like a return to form much more than the base game.
In Dark Souls you're Guts, in Elden Ring you're Galahad. Great video! I do have to disagree on the combat section though, Elden Ring is so much more difficult than Dark Souls 3 that it feels like the more intense game in that regard. I consider Margit to be harder than any boss in DS3, and when I fight bosses like Maliketh or Hoarah Loux I don't feel like a lone warrior trying to save the world, I feel like an animal being hunted.
In hindsight I should've been clearer about this point in the video but there was a reason I didn't have a section about combat in bossfights. The one major difference that lessens the tension in ER is the fact that boss runs are non existent for the most part. Stakes of Marika allow for you to arrive right at the foggate taking away one of my most memorable experiences in the souls series: boss runs. Yes I know people hate on them but they were part of the experience for a long time and made each legacy dungeon much more interesting.
Let's forget about the fact that a majority of non major bosses (and some major bosses too) have o much attacks that are just from older games (like tree sentinels who have ther gyobou oniwa moveset from sekiro) or even Consort Radhan who's a lazy reboot of the twin princes from ds3. There's not just one thing that ds3 does better, the game is overall better. And is actually challenging.
That's what I get for not playing that game with headphones XD I really wish they did this a little more often tho, it's nice little bit of immersion building.
@@asfandope yeah this is great for building a unique atmosphere, bloodborne does this as well i think you can hear the cleric beast screaming before you see it
bruh...lmao, I'll take your word for it that Elden Ring made you tense. But you don't even have the point of reference. Play DS3, I beg you. It's epic.
@@asfandope Um, for a complete frame of reference, Elden Ring is the first modern game I've played since the PS3 and Wii era. I've never owned a game on PS4 until August of this year
@@asfandope Your content is very well done, and you're well spoken. I'm confident that 20k subs is on the horizon for you. I look forward to more! And thanks for responding. The greatest game I've ever played was Dragon Quest 8. It changed my life, inspired me, and ruined so many other games after it. Thought I should expose myself.
DS3 was my first Souls experience and I think the first half of the game really prevents me from playing it again, same with the lack of build variety. ER is objectively way better for the things I play Souls games for. Build variety, exploration, lore/art style and ambience. Ds3 is so grey and miserable and I really hate it that first half until Irithyl. Bloodborne though is probably my favorite but its tied with ER. I think its a hair better. If ER didnt have Mountaintops or as many repeated enemies and bosses it would be by far #1.
Personally never had a problem with the first half of DS3 though I do get why it can be a bother for some people. But it's that grey miserable aesthetic that kinda sells the game for me. it's meant to represent a world at it's last moment so finding it beautiful would kinda defeat that point.
@@asfandope Yeah but it's also just the levels. Farron Keep is trash, High Wall is annoying, Undead Settlement is ok but still has the worst main game boss, Catacombs is garbage. The Chapel is cool but the Deacons are awful
@@greatcoldemptiness it might just be a bias because it was my first souls game but I never minded those areas. Except road of sacrifices. Fuck that area.
@@smra3847 definitely an argument to be made, though it also depends on the way the open world is designed. These types of games work best imo when you can tailor the experience as much as you can. Open worlds just leave too much room for mundane shit.
@@asfandope Still platined elden ring tho, still a 10/10 game But like you said in the video, a lot of what makes these kind of games so special is lost when you make it an open world and not a linear game Even lords of the fallen 2023, which is a far inferior game to elden ring has more of a dangerous atmosphere that i so like about these games Eldem ring only does this in some of the legacy dungeons
@@smra3847 @smra3847 to be fair, I did say in the video as well that Elden Ring is no way near to being a bad game. I have several playthroughs on it personally. But these games work best in a linear world, maybe at a semi-open world setting. My buddy @gametalesHQ has a really good video on the concept of semi-open worlds as a response to open-world fatigue I'd recommend you check out
Although I agree about the overall idea, I think you've focused so much on DS3 (my first souls game), while DS1 did it all the same and way better in some aspects (less linear, music in only 4 areas, insane level interconectivity...). Sure, the 2nd half wasn't as polished, but they managed that tension very well (Tomb of Giants or Crystal Cave to name a couple). And not many places make you feel so much tension as Blight town (maybe Latria and the Swamp in Demon's Souls) Cheers!
Yes I did that primarily because I was most intimately familiar with DS3 as I had just finished a playthrough about 2 weeks ago. Plus it was the first souls game I ever played hence my bias. But I still agree Dark souls 1 is still the best when it comes to the vibe that made dark souls so iconic. Especially the crazy amount of world connectivity.
@@asfandope what can I say... I feel the same about DS3 (as I've said, it was my first souls). In fact, I'm currently finishing another run... which always ends up in a boss rush (Nameless King, Friede, Midir, Gael, Soul of Cinder). Soooo... yeah, LOTS of tension just there XD Cheers!
@@PantoniStrikesBack I know the rest of that boss rush is filled with difficult fights. But I'll never not be in awe of the Nameless king. That fight gets my heart racing to this day.
Like comparing Star Wars and Star Trek - same thing but very different. If you like DS3 play it. If you like Elden Ring play it. Have fun in both instances.
To be fair, I did enjoy both games. But considering it was a stylistic departure from the original Souls trilogy while still retaining most of what it had done mechanically, narratively, it's a more apt comparison that Star Wars/Star Trek. Now if I was talking about Bloodborne or Sekiro compared to Dark Souls, that would've been an unfair comparison. For a layman, Elden ring is just an open world version of Dark Souls .
Dark Souls take a lot of inspiration from Tolkien Resident Evil. Kind of like Tolkien's Biohahzard with knights and sorcery. Elden Ring is more open ended, less room for feeling survial horror. Elden Ring is probably how Capcom would make an open world Resident Evil game.
Great video, even though i cant relate. Going through leyndel and stormveil had me more stressed than anything in ds3, maybe except the undead settlement. Though maybe that's cause ER was my first souls game and after that i knew what to expect from these games
@@konstantinosmoschos1050 fair enough, everyone does have a differing opinion when it comes to feeling a certain way. Elden Ring just give me that same feel for some reason.
I think it's really important to remember that Elden Ring is not Dark Souls, despite the obvious similarities and comparisons.
Dark Souls is a dark fantasy with themes centered around death, decay, the end of the world, etc. It's tense and claustrophobic compared to open world games. It's not so much an adventure as it is navigating and surviving an oppressive world.
Elden Ring is more of a high fantasy adventure with dark fantasy elements. Similar to ASoIAF and Berserk. It's about freedom, exploration, and mystery. It's more romantic in a sense, whereas Dark Souls is cynical.
They are 2 very different series that appear similar on the surface. The reason tension is missing from Elden Ring is because tension isn't the focus
I'd agree with you that they are very different games now in hindsight. But correct me If I'm wrong here but the marketing behind the game never actually leaned towards explaining that they would be different games did it?
So the uninformed souls fan assumed up till release date that Elden Ring was just an open-world take on the souls formula. Atleast Bloodborne and Sekiro went out of their way to differentiate themselves from Dark Souls.
Most of Elden Ring's marketing made it look (to me) like it was just a spiritual successor to the Dark Souls series.
@asfandope
It's a completely new franchise that's open world, co written by GRRM, and has booming, epic theme music. That was more than enough for me not to expect a Dark Souls 4. This was all in the marketing, especially GRRM's involvement. There was also a network test that showcased what the game was about months in advance. Plus the launch trailer featured Margit's line about the Tarnished being emboldened by ambition, and ambition isn't really a theme I would associate with Dark Souls.
Yeah they’re an evolution of the same formula but definitely different. I like them for different reasons and for different moods.
I think yours is a good explanation for it honestly.
@@TheLongBallofTheLaw That's an excellent point. For the record I still find the game good, just not the aesthetic that I'm a fan of.
What exactly about berserk is romantic? 😂😂
Its just Dark Souls being Dark Souls. Irreplacable and unforgettable.
So true.
This is it, I would always tell my friends that DS3 had something about it that was missing from elden ring.
@@IcyGhost_ there you go then.
Elden Ring feels more like an adventure, when Dark Souls 3 feels more like you're the dead that walks on his dead bed
@@DariuszHerma agreed 💯
Wow great point, the menu theme from dark souls 3 is almost as it's trying to express that your a soldier on one last suicide mission and tying up loose ends
@@asfandope yo thx for the like brother
@@AbdelHalimAlsayed anytime my man
@@asfandope yeah I'm subbing bro
I will replay DS3 way more times than I will Elden Ring.
A tight meaningful story and well crafted level design will always beat out flashy magic and forgettable bosses.
From what I've read, Miyazaki plans to dial it back from the open-world formula and his wording (although translated) makes it seem that we may be returning to a more linear world model in the next games. fingers crossed.
Absolutely
@@KyngD469 Funny how DS3 bosses are the ones who are forgotten. While nobody can forget the likes of Malenia, Radahn, Morgott and Radagon. Literally nobody ever talks about DS3 bosses, while Malenia is the most Googled boss and is already much more iconic than any boss in previous games. But sure 5 people who think Elden Ring bosses aren't memorable would disagree
@@Vengeance_I_m You're expressing recency bias and just overall general dissonance with the fandom.
People google Malenia for all the wrong reasons.
People dont need to google or gush about Gael, they'll never forget that fight.
Same goes for Sister Friede.
Soul of Cinder, especially it's phase 2.
The corruption of Gwyndolyn and Anor Londo in general.
The Nameless King.
Finding Quelaag's sister.
Radagon is a great boss, but is usually overshadowed by the follow up boss that most people dislike.
Nobody talks about Morgott. No one. You have to slog through so much just to beat him in 1 try and listen to him whine about the other demigods.
Radahn is talked about because of his hype. Not his boss battle. He's a giant that swings around chaotically on his horse.
DS3 is already immortalized and it's only been 8 years.
Malenia, Miquella, Radahn, Ranni will be remembered for how meme able they were.
The Gloam-eyed queen, Melina, Godwynn will be remembered for how unexplored they were.
DS3 is the culmination of Dark Souls 1 and 3. Setting up lore, and completing it with a bit left to be desired. It's perfect.
The fingers are just a No-name brand version of what Bloodborne did with the Great Ones.
Madness is just a TEMU version of Frenzy that had direct ties to to the Great Ones, which ties directly into the message of mankind pursing knowledge they have no business meddling with.
@@Vengeance_I_mI don’t know what you’re talking about. I think the overall community still hails multiple ds3 bosses as the best boss fights in all of the games.
Also elden ring attracted more newcomers to the souls series than every other game combined. Of course the most recent bosses to the best selling game would have more google searches than the old ones ☠️ It’s like you didn’t even think about what you were saying before you posted it man. I don’t mean this to be mean but your point just isn’t very thought out. You probably played elden ring as your first souls game so you might not have been in the community back in 2016 but the nameless king was hyped up just as much as Melania was back in those times. Only difference being that 5 million less people were playing ds3 than people who were playing elden ring in 2022.
Eldenring cons: didn't stress me out enough
@@Zakzattak it's definitely easier than most souls games for a number of reasons and while most of those changes were quality of life ones, you can't help but feel something was lost in the process
DS3 invasions are peak fromsoft
No doubt, spoken like a true hunter
Bring me back my pontiff gank city😭😭😭😭
Dude, the amount of effort you put in to this video is phenomenal.
Extremely underrated 🔥
what can I say...I had a great mentor!
Elden ring bosses: this is me and you will be fighting me today
DSIII bosses: you may not have f***** around but you’re about to find out.
@@DayMe1n lmao well said
Wytb? Er bosses are harder than DS3. Yeah, maybe DS3 ones can have better ost, lore, design and atmosphere but at the end of the day ER ones are harder. You can come and tell me that "bu u can cheese in ER", and yeah, same as u can do in DS3. The thing is, in normal terms without OP builds or aids, ER bosses are harder
@@hectorjarachairez1168 dsIII bosses just had more aura. They were way more intimidating especially with they’re intros
First time I entered Irithil dungeon that shriek legit gave me a jump scare, sound design did that. DS3 is still the best fromsoft game imo
@@LearnTrainPlay god that shriek definitely took a few years off my life.
I think that’s the only time I’ve ever been jump scared, I thought my heart stopped for a second lol.
Abyssal woods >>> irithill dungeon
@@wojciechmazurk5468 they're both great tbh
Keep honing your craft, you're on the right path
@@GameTalesHQ thanks mate
Cringe
@@seffievondionysus3198 you gotta work on that rage bait bro, that shit is weak
Bars
7:17 Bloodborne does this in the first area of Yarnham with the orgre pounding on the door
Wait when was this, I'm having trouble remembering where there was an ogre boss fight in early yharnam.
So true
@asfandope It's not a boss, just a regular giant ogre enemy that uses a brick to beat your ass. The first one encountered pounds on a huge door that the player approaches from the opposite side. It's by the giant bonfire with the werewolf crucified in the flames surrounded by yharnamites.
@@YHShinVH ahhh that one, ok but I was specifically referring to bosses in that timestamp hence my confusion. I think there's several examples of enemies doing something similar to that then.
@@asfandoperight, though I would argue that it's just as good, if not better, at building tension. When I first played it, I expected something monstrous to burst through the door while I dealt with the mob enemies. It really freaked me out
Elden ring is amazing but itll never top the others. Remember playing bloodborne when it came out? Just iconic
To this day, I await a remaster. Looks like Sony really fears the old blood.
7:24 You can hear Bloodletting beast breathing before you open the door in Bloodbornes chalice dungeons. Also, since they can be randomly generated, scary beasts like the Madman can just come running at you out of the dark with no warning, no matter how much experience you have with the game. DS3 also reuses some of Bloodbornes sound effects. That being said, DS3 was my first souls game and it was my favorite until a few months ago. (I had to wait for Shadow of the Erdtree to decide) Everything you say is true........but mostly for the first playthrough. After that, you aren't going to be scared by the atmosphere anymore because you've already beaten everything. (of course Bloodborne had a solution for that........) I prefer ER because it is so huge that just going to different areas of the game feels like playing a different game. Not being able to warp out of the many dungeons until the boss is beaten is also a source of tension, one that you don't get over with until you've really mastered the game. (beaten it several times so that you remember all of the hard dungeons) No mounts in legacy dungeons and normal dungeons either.
@@DigitalHaze65536 excellent points and I'll be keeping these in mind for my Bloodborne retrospective I'll be doing soon. Also for Elden Ring maybe I leaned too heavily on the hyperbole but Elden Ring definitely has its own version of tension, just not the same flavor as the one that made Dark Souls 3 so iconic for me.
Absolutely great video essay. I learnt so much about both games even though I have never played them at all. The editing is also so good 🙏🙏
Thanks so much, you should definitely check them out, I'll even play with you if you need help!
If you ever decide to play the Souls games on xbox lemme know and ill help ya get started for your adventure fam 🙏🏽
And every other FROM game did it better before DS3, which has way too many bonfires for its own good. It's disappointing to see that the days where you could actually run out of healing are long gone and it's unlikely we'll ever see them again. Souls games used to have tense exploration, now they're strings of bonfires until you reach the next boss.
I litteraly thought the same thing
best realized in dark souls one. The only one where you truly feared for your life
Without a doubt.
I don't think anything will ever beat finally beating sister freide and father ariandel, getting a titanite slab, then all of a sudden " When the ashes are two, a flame alighteth "
@@insanecobra9619 it was 3 am when I first beat her second phase, I got up and did a little victory pose...
Then I heard the words... And I finally knew true fear.
great video. Imo I always thought this lack of tension was because of the difference in genre. Dark Souls is clearly inspired by dark fantasy media while Elden Ring pulls more from high fantasy, so the overall vibes are inherently different. Dark Souls is menacing, hostile and rotten. Elden Ring may be all those things, but it’s also beautiful, godly and epic (which kinda undercuts all the horror-aspects most times)
That's definitely a major factor though it was interesting change, it wasn't what I came in expecting and until a recent conversation with a friend of mine, I couldn't even figure out why.
The music in DS3 is next level and that really sets the tone
@@CreateR900 💯
Well… DS3 was… very cool. But I will never like anything better than DS1 I think. That was just crazy… gave me so many feelings I never felt before. I remember discovering ash lake. Completely on my own by accident. And I played offline so I didnt have any hints. Its something I will never ever forget.
@@lukasovysilenosti ds1 reigns supreme dude, I'm not even gonna argue there.
One? DS3 is better than Elden Ring in general.
It’s the same game but with better lore, better levels, better flow, better magic and furthermost - with no boring open world nor shabby mounted combat / travel.
EDIT: judging by some responses, ER is baby's first soulslike experience apparently.
Massive cope
In general by which standards?
Level design? Not even in dreams
Exploration? Elden ring is leagues above that it's not even funny
Weapons? Build diversity? Ds2 a game that came before ds3 did it better and elden ring is just more and better of ds2
Combat? Literally the same but at least elden ring added a crouch, jump button, poise is back and combat is more engaging
Bosses? Debatable. Ds3 has more balance overall but I would choose any day to fight bosses like rellana, messmer, bayle, Godfrey or mohg
Lore, story, npcs, quest??? It's not even a competition lmao. Elden ring is just a bigger world with more memorable quest, npcs, lore and stories. The story is even deeper than all the souls series combined
Atmosphere? I like ds3 Atmosphere a lot but it's too dull(for lore reason) imo
@@AtomicZamuraiI would argue Elden Ring NPCs overall aren’t good at all. Most quest-lines feel underbaked, or missed potential (Yura, Diallos, Millicent, Melina) and it‘s hard to get attached to anyone of the characters that aren’t Alexander or Ranni. The story in Elden Ring is also pretty „meh“ but that‘s just me. The rest is great, though.
Elden Ring's story didn't work for me, tbh. The whole vague, mysterious story style works for DS3 because the world is basically dead and all the characters are bordering on insanity. You're just walking through the ruins. Elden Ring on the other hand is a live world with a fully written story from a great author that they cut massive chunks out of to try and seem mysterious, but it really just ends up being lazy, and actively hurts the overall narrative because we're missing so much detail that the plot and characters make zero sense. The story is driven by the actions of characters like Marika, Ranni, Miquella, etc, but these characters are missing so much detail in their stories that they really don't need to be. Dark souls 3 also doesn't really have anything you could clearly call out as bad writing, unlike the ending of shadow of the erdtree.
The souls series also had more interesting themes of purpose, cycles, stagnation, the self, and human will, and every character's story reinforced these themes. Elden ring feels far less human in that regard. It's just about a vague space God really having control and a bunch of assholes wanting to be elden lord. The npcs are also a lot less interesting in this regard. I didn't care for any of the npc questlines in ER nearly as much as I did for Hawkwood, Anri, etc.
Atmosphere is also subjective, but Ds3's hopeless tone was a lot more memorable imo.
Bigger is not always better
Yeah, there is a magic in how DS3 just comes together overall. I'll take a shorter, but more tightly and well designed experience over the unbalanced and long winded one Elden Ring offers.
To me the tension in Dark Souls is too much. I love the gameplay but it's hard for me to get through even one of these games because I get too into it and I feel constant dread and shit jumpscares me left and right.
Elden Ring on the other hand has the perfect level of tension and challenge for me and it's precisely due to some of the factors you talk about.
First of all, the jump button is literally a game changer.
However, what mostly contributes to me feeling more comfortable in Elden Ring is the constant presence of music. This helps so much with me being able to actually concentrate and play the game rather than being afraid to take a step and dreading every second of the experience which mostly consists of me, expecting something to jump out of nowhere and stab me or eat me.
The same threats are present in Elden Ring as in Dark Souls but I just don't feel so scared of them because of the soothing music that helps me not get distracted by every movement, clanging or dripping sound in the distance...
I also much prefer the colours of Elden Ring to the uniformity of Dark Souls but that's just taste...
@@Dimitar_Tsanev see that's fair though, it's not to everyone's taste and I can appreciate the fact that you found elden Ring easier to approach. I however enjoyed the oppressive atmosphere of Dark souls and found myself enjoying it much more for that reason.
@@asfandope Yeah, definitely. It's always ultimately a matter of taste.
I just felt that I can raise a point about how Elden Ring's atmosphere is more to some people's liking, seeing as the overwhelming consensus seems to be that Dark Souls 3 did it best and Elden Ring is just doing it wrong.
@@Dimitar_Tsanev I don't agree with that statement because both games are pretty good. My point was mostly about the change in aesthetic.
Mechanically speaking Elden Ring is much better than Dark souls 3.
The older souls games had much more emphasis on tense dungeon crawling, both the levels and bosses had harmony in its difficulty, nowadays the levels are much easier and are more or less just pace breakers before the next boss, sure that allowed for more complex and harder bosses without being way too frustrating(most of the time)but i still miss those harder levels
Just beaten original demon souls yesterday, it's pretty wild how much the series changed over the years while also paradoxically remaining very similar
@@junpei6180 yeah I'd agree, some would say the formula has been streamlined, though I'd also agree the dungeon crawling does seem like it's just there for breaking up the pace idk if that's intentional tho
Hi, I came from the Instagram comments section!
Your video really brought my attention to the use of buildup and suspense rather than the reveal and exploration style of Elden Ring's design. I would disagree with the statement that Dark Souls' tension was missing from Elden Ring, but rather that they use tension differently. The way that your video led me to think about it was that DS3's linearity gives progress a lot more of a punishing feel, so that the tension spawned is kinda a "can't go back, so we keep going forward" sort of cautious exploration. When I think about the tension, dread, and anticipation I felt playing Elden Ring, so much of it is designed with a destination in mind. You can almost always see where the boss fight takes place from near the beginning of an area. It's like Elden Ring encourages you to progress by holding a mystery out of your reach for you to chase, whereas Dark Souls (esp DS3) encourages you to explore by putting a knife at your back and limiting your options.
and ofc like I said on Instagram, the glory of Elden Ring's music does give that heroic feel to the player, but you covered that perfectly.
Awesome video! Glad I stumbled across it. Keep making content!
@@choombintheroomb maybe rather than not having tension, it would be better to say it's not executed in a similar way. Thinking about tension in a high fantasy setting versus that of a dark fantasy setting. At a point they'll resonate differently for most people, and I fell into that specific group.
I'm glad you were able to find my video, I was actually looking forward to hearing from you. Glad you could make it.
I love elden ring to death. It is an evolution of the formula with many amazing aspects. But I’ve recently been replaying DS3 after finishing the DLC just like you and I still like it more than ER. Elden Ring is supposed to be bigger and better in all aspects, but for some reason, I feel a lot more immersed in DS3. The atmosphere, sound design, bosses, soundtrack and characters just make it more appealing to me. For some reason I feel warmth in this dying and hopeless more linear world. Great video!
@@CaptainKoosh pretty much the same as me then, just something about the vibe of the game just feels amazing. No shade on Elden Ring tho it's still really solid.
is this just a 22 min video justifying why ds3 having enemy ganks behind every corner was a good thing?
yes
@@asfandope thanks for saving me the time.
i disagree of course. the only reason i played ds3 as much as i did was the bosses. the enemy placement/ganks/traps can suck my right nut.
@@asfandope ok. thanks for saving me the time.
i disagree of course. i think thats the worst part about ds3. theyre way overdone. they become a commodity. an hour into the playthrough you just know theres an enemy behind the corner. it doesnt surprise you anymore.
you see an enemy out in the open, you try to aggro it with a bow, and it doesnt run to you. it just sits there behind a shield. ok this is obviously a trap/gank. except i have no agency over it. i cant engage the trap my own way to even the odds. i have to trigger the gank and fight at a disadvantage.
even on subsequent playthroughs you know the trap is there and theres nothing you can do about it except just fight it. its dumb.
dark souls 3 is remembered fondly for its boss fights. the enemy placement and ganks can suck my right nut.
@@Apoxiosis haha I don't disagree about the ganks, my video mostly focuses on the aspect of immersion with the atmospheric design and bosses. Enemies are hardly mentioned for what it's worth.
Dark Souls 3 has the most amount of ganks of any souls game. At least you can easily spam roll out of any gank at least
I like how you frame a lot of the points in this video, with the enclosed and claustrophobic setting of Dark Souls where you don't know where you are, where you're going, and what is going to kill you next. I don't fully agree with your analysis of elden ring in comparison, but you make really good points about how the world is framed.
My major disagreements (and they are just that, I respect your points and they are quite valid here) is that you boil down a lot of elden ring just to the open work exploration. If you compare something like the main world of Caelid to Irythill of the Boreal Valley, the tension in Caelid isn't quite as strong. At the same time, a more apt comparison would be comparing the legacy dungeons to the major zones. Places like Stormveil Castle or Leyndell are much more apt comparisons that do draw on the same kind of "oh shit where am I going next" and can even exceed many/most of the areas in DS3 while being much more expansive and having more varied and completely independent routes around that give that sense of dread.
Similarly, you talk about the world design in ds3 showing you an area and then getting more and more fine-point in where to go, and you use Caelid as another example of how it didn't give the same level of atmosphere, but I remember when I first jumped over the fire wall near the burning church and saw the wasteland that is Caelid, with the expansive swamp in the middle and castles in the distance, and it hit me just as much as many of ds3 reveal areas (not even mentioning the haligtree, liurnia of the lake, or the dlc, which are some of the top tier area introductions in fromsoft history) Also not even mentioning the sewers and catacombs as the exact fear foils you talked about with the Irythill Dungeon
So much of your interpretation (and again, this is just my opinion versus yours, so grain of salt and all) feels like "elden ring big so elden ring diluted" without actually dissecting the sections that elden ring does much better, even with the open world playing against it. Having just played both elden ring and ds3 within the last few weeks through both, the boss design, enemy design, and boss move set are much more diverse, adaptive, and exciting in elden ring. The critique that I'm surprised that you didn't mention (and may be a low hanging fruit at this point) is the repetition of elden ring detracting from the individual experiences, but the actual boss interactions (standalone, not weighed with multiples) are far more cinematic, fast paced, thematic, and honestly difficult. Moments like finding Margit the Fell Omen at a low level (as they pretty much expect you to do) make him into this looming threat that seems completely impossible at first. DS3 has moments like this as well, but to say that it exclusively has it over elden ring is missing numerous major fights in the game, some locking significant amounts of content behind them (Margit, Morgott, Radahn, Fire Giant, Maliketh, even Astel and the Draconic Tree Sentinal)
I think that the more linear design of DS3 gives more direct interfacing of strong level design to strong level design; however, elden ring has more, debatably stronger content that progression locks sections rather than direct paths forward.
Good video though, I hope you keep up the vibe of this!!! All of this is my personal critiques, and my experiences are quite different. Like I tried starting with DS1 and got walled until I played through elden ring and then ds2 bloodborn ds3, so by ds3 I was an experienced player instead of learning things for the first time. Something that makes MAJOR differences!
Edit: Forgot to also mention the major vibe changes between having to homeward bone and travel at bonfires vs teleporting where ever, and how Torrent being there makes atmosphere significance when they are taken away in legacy dungeons and such.
Solid points throughout, at the end of the day the video was based on my own personal insight and experiences with the game. It was left open ended to allow people like yourself to chime in, since I don't pretend to know-all and I agree with most of your major points and should've gone for more details, especially direct legacy dungeons comparisons between the two games.
I'll probably keep these notes in mind for whenever I decide to do a deep analysis of Elden Ring. Thanks for sharing though, these comments only help me improve as a writer and creator.
@@asfandope One of my favorite parts about these games is the kind of discussions that we as a community can have about them, and how varied our experiences with them really can be. They all come from a deep love of the series, and this kind of open conversation really gives a chance for us all to show our own appreciation.
@@JmanTarget exactly and I'm glad most of the comments here (for the most part lmao) have kept it pretty civil and focused.
i get that same feeling even after my dozens of playthroughs, especially in consecrated snowfield when ariundel dlc starts, the fear and mystery of whats infront of you and the wolves creeping nearby
this guy gets it
I love the darkness of DS3, atmosphere is immaculate. No torch gang
@@baconslayerjohnson4668 same here, the torch I use in video is just for mood lighting
I think the music in ER is used to describe the areas, also, most of the light is from the erdtree, it helps the game to describe you are near something divine. I found ER more intimidating than DS3, but just that.
That's fair, cause a world without the erdtree would probably be darker more like that of the land of shadows but even darker
Wait till bro finds out about Dark Souls 1
or Bloodborne
plin plin plon
i miss simple gem. He is restore my mana based on my weapon upgrade. My fifth run was for mage and this gem slowly becoming effective and second half of run was a pure fun.
@@sum9091 mage was so fun tho
Top tier video and analysis, you explain your points beautifully, and I wholly agree with much of what you’ve said. Subbed.
@@DimaGolovatyi thanks dude
I heavily disagree. Giving DS3 praise is fine, but this is too much (undeserved) praise. Every effort DS3 makes to apply tension is undermined by easy, forgiving combat.
While the atmosphere and aesthetic of DS3 are more ominous, which definitely contributes to a sense of tension, it is still oddly heroic. Perhaps not as a result of the atmosphere, but because of the feats (defeating gods and former lords) you accomplish... with ease.
See, Dark Souls 3 is extremely lenient in combat, as you can dodge roll or quickstep away from your problems. Your invincibility period during rolls is very long, and distance covered by rolls is very good, even better at light equip load. Hardly anything rollcatches you even when you panic roll. Elden Ring is the opposite in this regard. Combat in ER feels tense because any mistake you make can spiral into more mistakes or death, even against regular enemies.
Range and timing are far more important in ER too, crucial to survival - whereas in DS3, weapon range, outspacing, and good timing only enhance your ability to fight, being just a boon instead of a necessity.
This also makes exploration a bit of a joke. If you rush in with no plan like a fool, you'll find the game difficult, obviously. If you have decent observation and even a semblance of a plan, the game becomes extremely easy. Not quite so in Elden Ring where regular enemies are still quite threatening and ambushes are generally deadlier.
But I guess you could just make an overpowered build and steamroll Elden Ring. ...Not like Straight Swords don't already do that to DS3, but whatever.
I agree with you, but I’d say for a new player who hasn’t been initiated to the combat and system of fromsoft games. Dark souls 3 is way more scary and tense.
In both games you’d still get bullied but in elden ring, the presentation is more of an adventure and exploration before taking on the challenges while in DS3 it feels like the game is trying to break you and make you give up.
the atmosphere of ds3 isnt supposed to be tense. it's supposed to be oppressively morbid and tragic for lore reasons that i imagine you probably know, and it's my favourite personally. ds3s combat is probably the only thing i can criticise ds3 for though. it is very forgiving and weapon arts being useless is stupid but still feels extremely nice and snappy to play. it's still a damn near masterpiece in my eyes
@@Ashlevon I wouldn't disagree about the combat, cause mechanically speaking Elden ring definitely does things better than dark souls 3.
But considering the moodiness and dark fantasy aesthetic that DS3 goes for compared to the more high fantasy style that is prevalent in Elden ring. I'd still have to say (imo) that DS3 feels like the more tense experience.
Both games are great, DS3 is just more iconic for me.
i agree after elden ring ds3 combat feels like a cakewalk
FYI they're different games made at different times. They made 3 Dark Souls and wanted to try something different instead of making rhe same game over and over again. I dont know why people are so obsessed about comparing them. Enjoy both for what they are.
@@KhoaTran-x9i again, both games are great, I just care about the change in tone mostly, cause I loved the ambience of the original souls trilogy.
Great video I loved it ! My take is that dark souls 3 carries a heavy sense of hopelessness. As you said it's the end of the world and everyone is dying. In elden ring we are in a stagnant world, it's not the same thing. No one is dying because no one can die, no demi gods rose above the others and nothing has changed in an age, that's why the tarnished is here. Not to save the world because the world isn't at the end of it's age like in dark souls, but to bring an end to it's stagnation, just to "do something, bad or good" like queen Marika said. So I don't think these two games can be compared objectively in terms of ambiance, lightning or sound design. They carry completely different moods because the state of the world and our role in it are completely different, we're not a last resort savior, we're literally a hero. Also, maybe it's just my take on it, but the way I see it, dark souls 3 is naratively more the story of the world than the story of the ashen one, whereas in elden ring it's the story of the one tarnished that rose up against the gods.
@@litneg4 I would 100% agree that the world setting is more of the main character than you. You're just some guy amongst who knows how many ashen ones that have been summoned before hand. It's literally scraping the bottom of the barrel because there's no other sources of hope.
I definitely agree with this Elden Ring’s atmosphere felt diluted compared to DS1+3 and Bloodborne. They’re all incredible games but I legitimately think if you want the best Fromsoft experience it’s Bloodborne. The atmosphere, tension, and combat are cranked up to 11.
@@justinmoody4684 Bloodborne still reigns supreme for atmosphere no doubt
I will have to critique one thing, dark souls 3 is not dark at all, the torch is near useless in ds3
It fails utterly in making dark scary areas like tomb of giants in ds1 or dark chalice dungeons in bloodborne
Ds3 even on the lowest brightness is clearly visible. The carthus catacombs nor irythil dungeon requires any torch, they both are decently lit
Id recommend looking at one of the early gameplay reveal trailer of ds3, much darker thats been toned down heavily.
Even basic caves in elden ring are darker
@@xsubzerox3412 that's fair, though if you look at Elden ring as whole you'd notice that it presents that darkness without nearly as much of the ambience as you'd have seen in any of the previous games. The caves are dark yes, but they suffer from a lack of ambience which was much better done in most of the dark souls games.
@@asfandope I wouldn't say the ambiance is carthus catacombs is that great, the only ambiance it had was the sound of walking on bones, and moving skeleton bones.
Mind you I'm not disagreeing that the older souls games have great ambiance, in fact I'd argue ds3 has weaker ambiance than the original demon souls.
Irythil dungeon is a poor man's tower of Latria, I do recommend u to watch a video of the original and not remake of demon souls, cause the remake changes too much of the sound scape in that level specifically
As the series moved forward, baring bloodborne, the souls games kept losing their horror/tension aspect
@@xsubzerox3412 haha yes I remember OG Latria, can't tell you how many times I rage quit on that part.
Considering how Miyazaki has talked about the direction he plans on moving forward we could see a better direction when it came to ambiance. Though I will highlight my bias towards DS3 since it was my introduction to fromsoft games.
Adjust monitor and contrast? What's the problem if you are asked to calibrate your monitor from the very beginning to get a better atmosphere. And yes, there are enough dark places in DS 3, most likely your monitor initially has a high black level, which should not be.
As a last resort, you can use Nvidia Freestyle or ReShade with their filters, you won't get banned for that.
Yes. That's because ER is supposed to be a different game. And your arguments for DS3 only work for the first playthrough when you don't know what's going on yet
True, though I never said or claimed that the tension would continue through every single play-through you did after finishing the game.
Ive only played dark souls 1 but man do I agree soo much with what you've said. I even started elden ring couple of times but it always felt like I was hoping for something back from DS 1 and its exactly what youve said! Well said and keep up the brilliant work!
@@MominKhan-zo5iq thanks man
I don’t even understand how they are even talking about 3 instead of 1. No other souls born game can touch the fist 1/2 of dark souls but your cutting yourself short if you don’t play the rest of them there all better them most games out there
@@mitchhartsell4448 That's fair, I just haven't managed to finish dark souls 2 yet, but I'm with you on that and will be giving it a try again soon.
I plan to make a video specifically on that game in the near future as well. Though most probably going to looking into bloodborne next.
Elden ring is NOT dark souls and you should approach the game with that in mind its the same with BB/Sekiro
@@A.R0YYY Here's a counter point: BB and Sekiro were different to Elden Ring mechnically. Elden Ring is literally based on the same mechanics as Dark Souls series so it's a more apt comparison. Therefore it is fair to compare those two games to each other.
In Elden Ring you are the boss
Most of the things you’re describing are what it feels like in Elden ring, too. Maybe there’s not as much tension because it’s open world, but you have limited heals, lose all souls/runes and everything in between, too. I’ve played both and I love both, but let’s be real. Other than the story, Elden ring is Dark souls open world. Both amazing for what they are.
Fair enough
I don't usually comment on YT videos, but this is just too good to pass by. Even though I love Elden Ring, I couldn't agree more with you. Keep up the good work!
@@erickestetler478 thanks dude that means a lot seriously 😭
Couldn’t agree more. As much as I love Elden Ring I really hope Fromsoft tries to return to its oppressive roots in the next game.
@@person3362 here's to hoping 🥂
In elden ring dlc the abyssal woods are the only place of tension.
@@Klaatu6432 more or less yes
The one thing that I don't think anyone really talks about but truly sets apart the tension between the souls games and elden ring is the ui(especially the stamina).
In dark souls 1 especially fights are like a dance in which you push forward, attack, and then pull out with just enough stamina to spare. You have to steal glances at the small bar in your top right that's so short it feels like it could drop to zero at any second.
But in elden ring I literally never once had to worry about my stamina, it goes from a dance of going in then pulling out to going in and in and in and then after many attacks you just move slightly away and you can go in again. The healthbar is so large that you can tell about how much you have left without even looking directly at it.
Of all the changes on the souls formula made for elden ring, that was the one that truly convinced me that this was a different experience. Not worse, just different.
@@burstspark5311 I'd agree I barely had a chance to look at my stamina bar in DS, but in Elden ring I had way too much time. Definitely took away from the experience.
Stamina management is way more important in ds2 than ds1 since 2 or more consecutive rolls in ds2 would cost extra stamina reduction whereas in ds1 the amount of stamina taken is just the same but multiplied. Ds2 is even way more brutal because stamina recovery will be slower if you've previously drained your whole stamina instead of sparing them a little bit. Also when you're running out of stamina, your character will be in this exhaustive state where you can't sprint until your stamina is fully recharged again. They even create the animation for this. I just wanted to say this because there are not many people who know about these hidden mechanics. But yeah, in general both of these games still require you to manage your stamina unlike in ds3, bb, or elden ring. This makes ds1 and ds2's combat feel more methodical and grounded compared to ds3, bb, or elden ring.
@@vbrant2705 DS2 mechanics are definitely more brutal
This whole video would be more legit if you stated everything as your opinion and personal observation. The way you stated things makes it sound like everything is generally agreed-upon. Sure there are people that feel the same way as you but there are also a lot of people who don’t see it your way, and I certainly do not either. All the statements like “you don’t feel the dread that every fight could be your death and every enemy is dangerous” do not stand true for me. Because I felt that. I felt the fear of running out of heals, of loosing my runes. The learning of bosses consumed hours. If that has not happened to you, okay. But it’s not something most players, that I know, feel.
The only general point you have is the use of music in ER vs DS3, I can agree with you on that.
I have played all the souls games before, so it’s not like “Elden Ring is may baby don’t badmouth it”.
My favorite souls game is actually DS3. But most of your points are personal experience and should be stated as such. And that is what I am missing in this essay is
@@tillsommerdrums noted, I'll be sure to add a disclaimer for future videos. As I did use words like feel a lot in this video but I guess it came off as more "matter of fact"
I find myself going back to ds3 more often than Elden ring because I don’t have to run around for 2 hours collecting all the sacred tears in ds3, just right into the action, I could probably beat it in an afternoon if I didn’t get distracted pvping behind pontif every time
That's probably my reasoning for enjoying ds3 more too. I still think Elden Ring is great...when in the legacy dungeons. But the open world aspect dilutes the fluidity of previous entries.
I think Dark Souls 3 did do atmoshere and map building better tbh, i think the smaller more detailed areas work a lot better for Souls games. It also feels a lot less of a chore to run through the game each time due to it being more smaller and confined, as much as i do like a lot of the things Elden Ring did i just didnt care for the legacy dungeons as much and having to run through the map each time especially after the DLC released
@@pripyatghuul true I really wish they could've gone with a more semi-open world for Elden ring cause I think this formula of games works best in that kind of design if not linear
I feel like Dark Souls being a dark fantasy aesthetic and Elden Ring being more of a high fantasy aesthetic contributes to this feeling.
@@icebb8856 yep I agree, it's pretty much what I mentioned in the video itself.
Elden ring ain't bad, but it suffers from the fact that it follows the souls series and people were always gonna feel slightly jarred by the change in aesthetic.
Yeah...I still love Elden Ring, but I do miss a lot of the aspects from Dark Souls that were left behind in the transition.
What sticks out to you among the things that were left behind?
Ds3 has some of the most memorable bosses of any fromsoft game for me. Pontiff sulyvahn, lothric and Lorian, the demon princes, champion gundyr, nameless king, sister friede, gael, and Darkeater Midir are all very memorable for me! All a pain in the ass to fight but all amazing fights!
I vividly remember the day I beat Midir, my roommates cheered me on and we had a group hug celebrating beating him as I was the first one to take him down in our group. Elden Ring has some great bosses sure, but there's just something about DS3 bosses that I can't get over.
compared to ER, you could say this about all dark souls games, not just ds3. ds1 in particular had the most oppressive atmosphere imo. ds2 had a more vibrant feel, but was still very tense. still can’t forget the first time i went through frigid outskirts.
@@brohan24 fair point, though for me personally DS3 stands out since it was my introduction into the souls series and the one I've played the most out of the trilogy.
Elden Ring feels like an actualized fantasy epic in line with Tolkien, Jordan, and Martin. It allows you so much more freedom to explore and it let's you take your time to do so.
Dark Souls has always had that sense of urgency pushing you forward. You have to link the fire or else the world perishes. The game doesn't allow you to breathe much between areas. The grand vistas in Dark Souls are rarely moments to enjoy the beauty of the world. Instead, it favors showing you the challenges that lie ahead and where your next boss encounter will be.
Agreed, I still enjoyed my time with Elden Ring. But still, I can't help but reminisce about the good ol' DS3 days just cause I appreciated the dark aesthetic a lot more.
It's dark, oppressive, eerie and creepy....until you experience PVP and invasion shenanigans after a hundred or so hours of finally getting good then the game just feels like home...except the poison swamps. Fuck the poison swamps
@@fronatomy6280 oh yeah screw the swamps
Ironically vast majority of the pvp takes place around farron keep these days
@@BratSmimson-re9uw Probably because its more fun to invade
I returned to the DSR, the Elden ring disappointed, there are no feelings that I need.
Also music in DS3 is phenomenal
@@pouria9417 very true
From has been on a continuous trend of decreasing tension in its games, and this trend had already progressed far by the time DS3 came out. The most tense, nerve-wracking environments and moments imo are heavily concentrated in Demon's Souls. DS1 already represents a significant drop in tension from DeS imo, but it is still high, and papable. DS2, with its beautiful Majula, warping from the start, pushover bosses, lack of intimidating special enemies like Black knights, Titanite Demons, and Hydras, and areas that don't beg much for shortcuts and retreading - already let the bottom fall out on the tension. Then DS3, there's only token influence of the environment and effects like darkness etc, and the gameplay is primarily nonstop, unorganized, highspeed combat rather than exploration paced with individuated encounters. Areas are mostly holders for armies of enemies. Constant warping. Bonfires every 2 minutes. Tension is already eviscerated. Elden Ring's chillaxin overworld is just the death certificate, making the most of it with at least an alternative vibe to replace it.
@@philosophyofiron9686 pretty accurate though I think you forgot to mention their best game when it came to tension: Bloodborne.
That game was imo tension perfected.
@@asfandope I didn't include BB because I find it a bit confounding where it fits into all of this, haha. For me, DeS's area design, mechanics (healing, encumberance, weapon breakage, spirit form, world tendency) and atmospherics still make it reign supreme in terms of tension, but Bloodborne's iteration was certainly powerful.
I think part of why BB doesn't strike me as in the top tier for tension is the power arc pacing. Like, the beginning hours of BB were extremely tense and intimidating for me, the sense of dread palpable. However, after I killed Vicar Amelia and entered the woods, the assymetry between my character and the enemies and bosses began to fall off a cliff, such that I was rapidly more and more able to walk around with a degree of confidence I could handle whatever happens to jump out. The visuals are still unsettling, but the real threat of harm is tolerable- and this is someone who barely levels HP, lol. This happens on every playthrough, with different builds.
If the whole game felt like the opening > Gascoigne and Amelia, then yeah, it'd probably be the top for me, haha. Demon's (2009) for me, DOES always feel distinctly uncomfortable, in every area + the hub, from start to finish. PS5 Demon's quite a bit less so, but still significant.
@@philosophyofiron9686 ok that's fair, but what's your opinion on the overall aesthetic and vibe of the game as a whole since you mostly went into detail about the gameplay which is significant but not the only thing that causes tension. Like lighting, music and ambience.
@@asfandope The sound design is incredible, and indeed, BB does the best at creating tension in that way. Even the sound of the lanterns - which are supposed to be our safe spots of breaths of fresh air - have this unsettling, otherwordly vibe. They're like lighthouses stranded and swamped in a dark and stormy ocean, with their shine (and ring) doing more to emphasize the ill-omened darkness of the tempest than to convey the safety of the tiny haven in its midst.
I once saw someone else say that music-wise, the music in Hunter's Dream contributes to this safe hub always feeling a little bit "off," a little uncanny, and uncomfortable. I wholly agree. And as unsettled as I was just going to level up and change my blood gems, the game is better for it, in much the same way DS1 is better for the basilisk threat in The Depths.
With regards to the overall aesthetic, my initial reaction on first playthrough was that the dark, Victorian gothic horror feel was executed on brilliantly, but the lack of variety hurt the experience. I was always craving to see something new - a broader range of applications of the unifying feel of the game, like we got in DS1, between locations like The Depths, Blighttown, The Great Hollow, Ash Lake, The Catacombs, Tomb of the Giants, Darkroot Garden/Basin, and Oolacile.
However, my view modified on later playthroughs. B/c on first playthrough, BB had scared me out of thoroughly exploring early on, and then turned out to be short, with an abrupt ending, I'd missed going back for and getting to discover a ton of content- namely, Hemwick, Nightmare Frontier, Cainhurst, and Upper Cathedral Ward. These additions did make the game feel more like it had sufficient variety and fluctuations of mood (not to mention Fishing Hamlet, in the DLC).
Furthermore, I think it eventually clicked what Miyazaki's vision may have been for Bloodborne as a whole; part of the reason so much of BB looks and feels samey maybe be that is it's meant to feel like a dauntingly frightful, labrynthine, claustrophic nightmare maze of endless interweaving and convolutedly branching, diverging and interlocking dark passageways, stairwells, alleys, bridges, ladders, gates, etc. that all disorientingly blur together in a neverending night- a vision that seems to harken back to the feel of certain difficult and nerve-wracking N64 era sidescrollers. If that was the goal, From executed pretty damned well on it, and the relentless and stifling oppressive similarity of scenery and retreading of spaces is a critical element to that achievement.
@@philosophyofiron9686 I always thought it was designed that way to feel like a fever dream, dreams often look and feel the way the map in Bloodborne feels.
Greats video. Sub deserved. Love the name. Congrats on 1k+💪🏿 can’t wait to see you at 40K
@@coff33_black ayyyy thanks man
While Elden RIng is an amazing game, I still think that Dark Souls 3, and 1 did something, that will never be recreated. But I think it's okay that Elden Ring is not dark souls. It's not supposed to be Dark Souls. What I dislike in Elden Ring is the lack of creative Vision. Elden Ring feels like it was created to suit the mainstream, while dark souls 1, 3 and Demon's Souls was created to fulfill a cerain vision miyazaki had, no matter how it would be recieved.
When I finished Elden Ring I felt nothing.
When I finished dark souls 1 and 3, I felt everything.
Those last 2 sentences summed it up nicely.
As for game play it’s hard to beat Elden ring it takes from all of the souls born. As for atmosphere that’s up to the individual and probably the one you play first will leave more of a impression on you. that’s why bloodborne the best lol.
There's a reason I didn't go too deep into comparing the gameplay, more of the design choices. Elden Ring is still an excellent game, I just wanted to discuss vibes and aesthetics of the games.
And of course Bloodborne is still king, can't wait for the sequel (copium)
I personally believe that ds1 has an even more prominent sense of tension, as in ds3 the bonfires are placed with a lot less intention. The best thing about ds3 that far surpasses Elden ring is it’s balancing, as you have to intentionally keep yourself on a hyperspecific path for Elden ring to be balanced, while ds3 is perpetually balanced without having to be worried about under/overlevelling.
@@Kqman that's true, ds1 did have the more prominent tension, but since DS3 was the game I had played most recently I chose to talk about it specifically.
This video could've just as easily been about DS1 or DS2 instead and most of the points would hold.
To be fair, Elden Ring’s first experience is something that cannot be replicated, it had its tension when visiting new areas, but oh boy DS3 is an S Tier experience even if you play again
@@lloydthesage1164 that's fair
Going Through Blightown without thr iron ring, Tomb of The Giants with torch, Amanas Shrine with Torch
@@JodioJoestarFilthyRich thanks for bringing up my traumas again
@@asfandope lmao
I have to agree with you on this. Especially the music part, I can still remember the feeling when hearing the boss music from dark souls bosses like Gael, Friede, Gaping dragon, the pursuer, etc. However in Elden Ring most of them aren’t that remarkable, the ones that I remember being Godricks, Hoarah loux and Midra, however these are the only ones that resonate with the “tension” that Dark Souls bosses osts have
@@rafaelsalinas1000 thanks but I gotta say you left out the best one from Elden Ring. Mohg's theme, that was actually pretty awesome imo.
Black.
Knight.
Greatsword.
This is a cluttered game and not a terribly aesthetic experience. However, it is a significant achievement in developing all the great game mechanics of Elden Ring. Of the three, I find the first Dark Souls the most amusing to play though Demon Souls runs it close.
Honestly on a technical level I agree with you. The main reason I remember this one so fondly is because it was my first exposure to the souls genre, I got to play 1 and 2 later and I've only played the remake of Demon Souls, so I can't speak for the OG demon souls.
Sure there's parts of it that could've worked better, but as the closing entry for a great trilogy I'd definitely say it holds a special place in my heart. Even though on recent replays, DS1 is much more enjoyable just because of supreme level design.
@@asfandope it's still a bit better than Sekiro too, which is far too finicky to master. I'm not a Bloodbourne fan either, that game mostly feels dumb with no parrying.
@@culturespot75 I see where you're coming from, though I personally feel that Bloodborne is the most complete fromsoft experience that they have ever delivered (I'm personally a big fan of it and it's setting, soundtrack and so on).
Having said that I can see how removing the parrying from the situation would've made the game redundant.
the "something was missing"part was so real as great as elden ring is for me it can never top the likes of ds3,ds1& sekiro
@@zura1. It never really hit me until after I finished it and I couldn't shake this feeling of "huh...I was expecting something more". It originally made me feel dumb cause the game is twice the length of ds3 atleast.
this is a point i can’t agree on as somebody who’s played all the only one that’s better is sekiro and maybe bloodborne so what did you see
I feel like I have quite a lot of disagreements here and I feel like a thesis like this lends no credibility to Elden Ring due to the lack of research or other perspectives. Such as the argument with tension and saying that it’s something that defines DS3, but ignoring the many uses of it in Elden Ring like with the crows and dogs in Caelid, the revenant path in Elphael, the oppressive design of Stormveil and when you get locked in the room by Gostoc, the zombies in Raya Lucaria that catch you by surprise and take away one of your most important resources at that moment, or likewise with the zombies in Elphael, or the black dumpling albinaurics in Volcano Manor. After that is the discussion of atmosphere and darkness and again there’s almost no representation of what makes the world of Elden Ring stressful, like the foggy atmosphere of Aeonia, the dead giants, Ekzykes and her dead babies lining the southern edge of the swamp, or the dead dragons in Dragonbarrow. Perhaps also Farum Azula with the grim atmosphere relating to burial practices and dead beastmen. Or maybe that Aeonia leads you to this super mysterious magic town full of these like apparitions and behind that is a church and a big graveyard full of those that would’ve died there, or even the cave it leads to as well that uses darkness to its advantage as well. Or just that with Elden Ring generally being more colorful it can go for a messed up vibrant look that a place like Caelid or Volcano manor with all the blood or Elphael with all the orange decaying plants everywhere to enrich it in its own kind of atmosphere that can seem unsettling without relying on just darkness or nearly monotone color schemes. There’s other things that help the tension and vibe like massive creatures like runebears in Mistwood, the giant lobsters in Liurnia, the Trolls usually in the slightly established looking settlements, or deliberately strange areas and design decisions like Dominula with the freaky cult followers or finger creepers, or the crying wormfaces in Altus. There’s so many examples of ways that Elden Ring enriches its atmosphere that isn’t mentioned here, and I feel like it’s not intentional but due more to being willfully oblivious.
@@Aiden-Ed I see your points and while I agree that Elden ring had definitely used tension in many of its areas, it simply failed to have the same level of tense atmosphere and feeling for me due to the fact that is was presented in an almost high fantasy beautiful sort of aesthetic compared to the drab dark aesthetic that had defined the dark souls trilogy. And yes that includes the areas and enemies you mentioned. While I understand the statement that it was due to a lack of research, most souls fans have Elden Ring fresh in their minds and whole new generation of gamers have probably never even played the original trilogy.
I strongly disagree about the colour palette as it's been something that has defined the souls trilogy and while I can certainly appreciate Elden rings diverse colour palette, it was the almost monotone effect of Dark souls that landed well to this atmosphere of a world at the end of its rope.
Also one last thing: my style of writing is left a little open-ended to allow for conversations such as this as we all have different opinions and I'd like my channel to be a place where we can share them in a civil manner. I'm sure you didn't mean to sound that way, could just be me reading into it a little too much, but I couldn't help but feel your tone was a little condescending. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong about that.
@@asfandopeI made that last comment because I feel like you use many many more examples from Dark Souls 3 than examples of what Elden Ring does to put its own take on a vibe. Personally I am happy they can have more themes than stuff that’s only horror adjacent, but can still appeal to the people who want it. But there’s also other stuff in it to break up the monotony. And it’s a similar style anyways. Like if we use Leyndell as an example, it is a big golden beautiful city, but when you get deeper into it and look into its surroundings you see those who died in the war in form of golden skeletons that can fly, or when you get to the run down part of Leyndell with the undead and black dumplings you will find the disgusting secret of the city and of Marika, that a whole race is sent down there to rot and die, two in fact, along with other enemies of Marika like the revenants and their followers. It lends itself to a seriously messed up vibe that I don’t see much of anywhere else in the series because it uses this plot of gods and demigods not being morally correct. And also just a few points in the video not really standing in my opinion with stuff like the omen duo which honestly kinda creeped me out with it being in the pitch darkness, the forbidden lands that obscures the vulgar militia which are also small enemies that can quickly overwhelm you, or the oppressive atmosphere of flame peak and the yeti type giants and crows and finger creepers once again. I’m not saying this to be rude but I just found the video very biased and again deliberately ignoring what Elden Ring does to give itself an atmosphere that conjures the intensity of old fromsoft games while having its own, with the face of the game being about gods and gold; which I think is an awesome theme, about corrupt gods trying to seem pristine or “golden” but you look into the cracks of the foundation in their thought processes, which is where you find the atrocities committed in game and you get to experience the places that these horrors are happening in.
@@Aiden-Ed ok when you put it that way it makes a lot more sense. But I'd still argue that while the atmosphere of places like leyndell, offer a juxtaposition of a bright golden fortress/city with death and decay surrounding it, the aesthetic for Dark souls lended itself more to a completely decayed world. Hence it played more like a dark fantasy in contrast to the high fantasy feeling of Elden ring.
The sense of tension felt more visceral in Dark souls compared to that in Elden Ring. Hence I didn't say that Elden ring lacked tension, that is simply not true. Rather the way it was presented didn't leave me personally with that feeling of dread and anxiety the way something like Dark souls did.
Also sorry if I came off a little hostile in my last comment. This is an interesting discussion and topic for me and id rather we kept it civil.
@@asfandope all good :)
Dark Souls fans need to understand that Elden Ring is not Dark Souls please understand that yes fromsoft reuses ideas for healing, combat and travel that doesnt make the games the same. They can make different games not everything is suppose to be like Dark Souls. And you should rewatch the Trailer it didnt give any sense of tension or dread it gave a sense of a heroic journey. They cant make the same music for a different title. You kinder need to agree that Dark Souls have 3 games world building and the story was refined more after each title, I think comparing DS3 to ER is something Dark Soul fans need to stop doing. Dark Souls is amazing great better than most games out there but Elden Ring tops it all aspects of what it tries to do
I mean, it's a reskin of that game.
Looks like the engagement bait title did its job. "The ONE thing" farmed a ton of engagement in comments because of how it comes across. Not sure if it was on purpose or he fkd around and found out.
the latter lmao, I just thought the title sounded good in my head
This feels kind of off base and doesnt really adequately describe or analyze the games lineage or each games unique character: sweeping orchestral score way overstates the presence of the musical ambience in Elden Ring, the background music is far from that, it is, at most, auditory texture, that lacks enough density and specificty to distract or detract from the sound effects, especially when we consider how often periods of silence punctuate these slow and sustained chords; another minor layer was added to the soundscape, but the focus on environmental sounds was not reduced.
Further, reducing the scale to ds3 and elden ring prevents us from meaningfully assessing the actual identity of dark souls 3, especially when things we discuss about ds3 might have better points of comparison in earlier titles. Ds3 and elden ring are the closest to eachother combat wise than any other in the series! Demons, dark 1 and 2 and bloodborne are much better points of discussion on that front.
Ds3' bonfire placement is almost comically close in comparison to its predecessors! There is also no discussion of environmental weight and the way the approach to these matters is handled... ds3 was part of the process of that /loss/.
Hey sorry for the late reply, I'm gonna try and address most of your points best I can. Sure I could've gone deeper into the broader context of some of the other titles in Fromsoft's catalog, but I felt DS3 being one of the first entry points for a lot of people including myself made it an interesting starter for the broader conversation of how Elden Ring differs from the previous titles.
Also compared to the soundscapes of DS3 which usually comprise of little more than background noises mixed with elemental noises (wind,water and so on), it's not inaccurate to compare it to Elden Ring's much more detailed and (for lack of a better term) broader soundscape with musical instruments added in. I'll agree that I may have over exaggerated my point but comparing something that is as minimal as DS3's soundscape to something like Elden Ring's, I simply failed to find the right word to describe it properly. My bad on that.
Now I don't fully agree about my argument being offbase, but i'll grant you that I could've been more in-depth which I plan to in future entries when I tackle the Fromsoft catalog as a whole.
People need to appreciate each of these games for what they do best and stop trying to force them to be like each other (in thr way you want most). There's obviously mechanical and artistic overlap but every game since Demon's Souls (including DS2) has presented a new alternative to what's been shown before, with enough overlap that it feels familiar. Elden Ring is a TTRPG cosmic fantasy setting thrown into a sandbox, and I think it offers the best faction interactions, some of the best lore, and an underrated cast of main characters and supporting roles who all shape the geography, geology, archeology, historiography, history and mystery of The Lands Between. The setting feels alive, or maybe undead is a better personification, in bigger and more intimate ways than even Greater Yharnam and the Ashina Lands.
@@geordiejones5618 that's why you'll notice how I never said one game was better than the other in the video (correct me if I'm wrong).
I only talked about a design choice that has originally made me fall in love with the souls formula that I found lacking in Elden ring, a game I still very much enjoyed after 5 different playthroughs.
The funny thing is about Souls- DD2 Majula is the best music in the entire series, regardless of the gameplay lagging behind the rest.....I'll never forget Majula. I do also love the hub music for ds3 but MJula takes the cake. BTW, excellent video brother.
@@TupDigital I'll agree with you on majula, it just hits different. Thanks for watching
Lol how have I never heard abyss watchers fighting before entering the arena?
@@wasterick probably because you were too busy fighting off the dark wraiths.
Very well done video! DS3 is my favorite Dark Souls game and you pretty much describe exactly why. DS3 also has some of my all time favorite boss fights, like Nameless King, Gael, Sister Friede, Pontiff Sulyvahn, Soul of Cinder, Abyss Watchers, etc. So many excellent boss fights!
Can't we love both games?
People arguing that one game is better than the other only make the community more toxic
@@deogracias9869 I do love both games, I was just discussing an aesthetic difference.
@@asfandope wasn't talking about your video, I was mainly addressing comments shitting on both games
@@deogracias9869 ahhh, I had a feeling. It's true though, we can discuss the games differences but most folk tend to get really emotional and turns into a you Vs me mentality. Never quite got why.
Can't really speak to which one is the better game as they both provide very unique experiences that will resonate with different people. I love them both to death, but in terms of the overall vibe and presentation of its themes, I prefer DS3.
It's a beautiful conclusion to the trilogy. It does such a phenominal job of showing a world that's more dead than alive at this point. A world you're told you should preserve even though everything you see screams at you to just let go. And that's ultimately what the game is about.
DS3 is almost an anti - "hero's journey". You start as a weak ashen one, being tested by beings more powerful than you, and you become powerful enough to link the flame, fulfilling your duty, and for what? There is no grand conclusion like in Elden Ring or even DS1. If you link the flame, you're just delaying the inevidable. No new kingdom will rise. No new age of prosperity. Just the prolonging of a sickly world that should have died long ago.
Man just thinking about it gives me chills. And don't get me started on the "End of fire" ending. Simply one of the most beautiful endings to a game ever imo. God I love DS3 😭
@@soulsborne1513 you pretty much hit the nail on the head there for me too. DS3 is the absolute perfect conclusion to an excellent trilogy. Yes even DS2 with all it's enemy placement issues has its perks.
I remember someone in the comments said something that blew my mind:
In the start of ds1 the first enemy you face is a hollow with a broken blade. In DS3 DLC (The end of the trilogy), the last enemy you face is a hollow with a broken blade "Gael". I just love how the game came full circle and it's so amazing how this game's story and everything about it have stood the test of time.
We'll probably never have something like Dark souls again, Elden Ring is great and all, but it still doesn't beat Dark Souls thematically.
@@asfandope I've never actually thought of the "hollow with a broken sword" thing, but that's actually really cool. Even though it was probably unintentional, it is a great full circle moment.
But yeah, Dark Souls 3 is a special game. As a gameplay experience it's not perfect, it's not even my favourite soulsborne game. That spot is reserved for Bloodborne, and possibly Shadow of the Erdtree. But it really is an extrordinary piece of storytelling.
@@soulsborne1513 I agree with you on Bloodborne, DS3 was my introduction to the souls genre, so it holds a special place in my heart always.
@@asfandope And Bloodborne was mine, which is probably partly why I hold it in such high regard 😅
@@soulsborne1513 it's probably one of the best games Fromsoft has ever put out.
Planning on doing a video on that as well soon. Hope I'll see you there.
Makes me realize that this lack of tension is something i appreciate in elden ring. Same way the world is less bleak for lore reasons. Elden ring is less dark i guess. Bloodborne too was very muddy.
@@skidmc muddy? My guy you gotta elaborate on that before the Bloodborne fans find this.
@@asfandope like I care 😅 but yeah sticks to your clothes. No need to rank them, myiazaki rules
@@skidmc fair enough man XD
I've played all souls games, I have even played all their predecessors (the "king's field" and "shadow tower" series).
There are things in the KF games that I miss on the souls series (tension? you don't know what's tension if you haven't reached the Big Mines in KF 2 or if you haven't played KF 4 or Shadow Tower at all lol).
There are things in the souls games that I miss on Elden Ring. You've said it: the atmosphere. I prefer the dark atmosphere of DS (and even Bloodborne) over the High fantasy heroic vibes of Elden Ring (that's why I LOVED the DLC atmosphere).
Still, ER is my favorite among all of them, including the predecessors. And that's ok. I think is really awesome (dare I say, magical?) that ER didn't overshadowed the other souls games. I can still go back to DS1, Demons' Souls and even KF, and enjoy that experience as something unique to those games.
@@artedonada7606 fair point. If you liked ER that's great, I did too. Just noticed this one thing that sort of kept me missing older souls games.
I love depressing shit. I find a sublime experience in ruin.
@@etinarcadiaego7424 same
@@etinarcadiaego7424 a beautiful sadness
I would agree but the eldenring dlc changed that for me. It's much more dark souls like than eldenring base game.
Agreed, I plan on addressing that in a future video as well. Shadow of the Erdtree as a whole feels like a return to form much more than the base game.
@@asfandope that's a subscription. Nice taste so far!
@@HardstyleLegend90 Thank you kindly
In Dark Souls you're Guts, in Elden Ring you're Galahad.
Great video! I do have to disagree on the combat section though, Elden Ring is so much more difficult than Dark Souls 3 that it feels like the more intense game in that regard. I consider Margit to be harder than any boss in DS3, and when I fight bosses like Maliketh or Hoarah Loux I don't feel like a lone warrior trying to save the world, I feel like an animal being hunted.
In hindsight I should've been clearer about this point in the video but there was a reason I didn't have a section about combat in bossfights. The one major difference that lessens the tension in ER is the fact that boss runs are non existent for the most part. Stakes of Marika allow for you to arrive right at the foggate taking away one of my most memorable experiences in the souls series: boss runs.
Yes I know people hate on them but they were part of the experience for a long time and made each legacy dungeon much more interesting.
@@asfandopeI personally hate the boss runs.
They honestly aren’t memorable for me just irritating.
@@TREVORVADER fair enough
Let's forget about the fact that a majority of non major bosses (and some major bosses too) have o much attacks that are just from older games (like tree sentinels who have ther gyobou oniwa moveset from sekiro) or even Consort Radhan who's a lazy reboot of the twin princes from ds3.
There's not just one thing that ds3 does better, the game is overall better. And is actually challenging.
@@Solsticeuh yep that's a fair point
@@asfandope you think so? Or you're mocking me? I always get laughed at when I say my point...
@@Solsticeuh no no, it's pretty well documented that fromsoft recycles animations sometimes.
@@Solsticeuh like how the moveset for the minor erdtree avatars are basically the asylum demons from DS1 for example.
@@asfandope Yes! Exactly this! Well it wasn't really hidden to begin with, but it's still sad when you realize you got nothing to really learn
My fav FromSoft game
SAME
Ya know I was just playing ds3 aswell, it's just a vibe in ds3 like no other. Good video!
thanks so much dude
Demon's souls does this with the sound before the vanguard you hear him and the axe
That's what I get for not playing that game with headphones XD
I really wish they did this a little more often tho, it's nice little bit of immersion building.
@@asfandope yeah this is great for building a unique atmosphere, bloodborne does this as well i think you can hear the cleric beast screaming before you see it
@@frostyDome now that I definitely remember, but I originally thought that was just Bloodborne being Bloodborne 🤣
I won't tell you that you're wrong, but I should say Elden Ring makes me very nervous and tense. Never played DS3 though.
bruh...lmao, I'll take your word for it that Elden Ring made you tense. But you don't even have the point of reference. Play DS3, I beg you. It's epic.
@@asfandope Um, for a complete frame of reference, Elden Ring is the first modern game I've played since the PS3 and Wii era. I've never owned a game on PS4 until August of this year
@@PerilsAbound well god damn man I don't even know what to say 🤣 hey if you love the game, who cares what a dumb UA-camr like me thinks
@@asfandope Your content is very well done, and you're well spoken. I'm confident that 20k subs is on the horizon for you. I look forward to more!
And thanks for responding.
The greatest game I've ever played was Dragon Quest 8. It changed my life, inspired me, and ruined so many other games after it. Thought I should expose myself.
@@PerilsAbound thanks dude I appreciate it
Tension? DS1 does it WAY better than both DS3 and ER.
@@godcaoss no doubt, DS3 is just a game I'm more intimately familiar with since I had replayed it recently and noticed this.
DS3 was my first Souls experience and I think the first half of the game really prevents me from playing it again, same with the lack of build variety. ER is objectively way better for the things I play Souls games for. Build variety, exploration, lore/art style and ambience. Ds3 is so grey and miserable and I really hate it that first half until Irithyl.
Bloodborne though is probably my favorite but its tied with ER. I think its a hair better. If ER didnt have Mountaintops or as many repeated enemies and bosses it would be by far #1.
Personally never had a problem with the first half of DS3 though I do get why it can be a bother for some people. But it's that grey miserable aesthetic that kinda sells the game for me. it's meant to represent a world at it's last moment so finding it beautiful would kinda defeat that point.
@@asfandope Yeah but it's also just the levels. Farron Keep is trash, High Wall is annoying, Undead Settlement is ok but still has the worst main game boss, Catacombs is garbage. The Chapel is cool but the Deacons are awful
@@greatcoldemptiness it might just be a bias because it was my first souls game but I never minded those areas. Except road of sacrifices. Fuck that area.
Really good video man! Ds3 is the goat!
@@jpthedrummer4258 thanks bud
i always said that souls likes dont belong in an open world
@@smra3847 definitely an argument to be made, though it also depends on the way the open world is designed.
These types of games work best imo when you can tailor the experience as much as you can. Open worlds just leave too much room for mundane shit.
@@asfandope
Still platined elden ring tho, still a 10/10 game
But like you said in the video, a lot of what makes these kind of games so special is lost when you make it an open world and not a linear game
Even lords of the fallen 2023, which is a far inferior game to elden ring has more of a dangerous atmosphere that i so like about these games
Eldem ring only does this in some of the legacy dungeons
@@smra3847 @smra3847 to be fair, I did say in the video as well that Elden Ring is no way near to being a bad game. I have several playthroughs on it personally.
But these games work best in a linear world, maybe at a semi-open world setting.
My buddy @gametalesHQ has a really good video on the concept of semi-open worlds as a response to open-world fatigue I'd recommend you check out
Although I agree about the overall idea, I think you've focused so much on DS3 (my first souls game), while DS1 did it all the same and way better in some aspects (less linear, music in only 4 areas, insane level interconectivity...).
Sure, the 2nd half wasn't as polished, but they managed that tension very well (Tomb of Giants or Crystal Cave to name a couple).
And not many places make you feel so much tension as Blight town (maybe Latria and the Swamp in Demon's Souls)
Cheers!
Yes I did that primarily because I was most intimately familiar with DS3 as I had just finished a playthrough about 2 weeks ago. Plus it was the first souls game I ever played hence my bias.
But I still agree Dark souls 1 is still the best when it comes to the vibe that made dark souls so iconic. Especially the crazy amount of world connectivity.
@@asfandope what can I say... I feel the same about DS3 (as I've said, it was my first souls). In fact, I'm currently finishing another run... which always ends up in a boss rush (Nameless King, Friede, Midir, Gael, Soul of Cinder). Soooo... yeah, LOTS of tension just there XD
Cheers!
@@PantoniStrikesBack I know the rest of that boss rush is filled with difficult fights. But I'll never not be in awe of the Nameless king. That fight gets my heart racing to this day.
Demon souls was perhaps the best at tension aspect (cus one checkpoint per level)
@@sedativegaming7272 that did make the runbacks more tense, that's true
Like comparing Star Wars and Star Trek - same thing but very different. If you like DS3 play it. If you like Elden Ring play it. Have fun in both instances.
To be fair, I did enjoy both games. But considering it was a stylistic departure from the original Souls trilogy while still retaining most of what it had done mechanically, narratively, it's a more apt comparison that Star Wars/Star Trek.
Now if I was talking about Bloodborne or Sekiro compared to Dark Souls, that would've been an unfair comparison.
For a layman, Elden ring is just an open world version of Dark Souls .
Dark Souls take a lot of inspiration from Tolkien Resident Evil. Kind of like Tolkien's Biohahzard with knights and sorcery. Elden Ring is more open ended, less room for feeling survial horror. Elden Ring is probably how Capcom would make an open world Resident Evil game.
I'll be honest, first time I've ever heard that comparison, but honestly I can see it.
DS3 oniline is way better than any other fromsoft games
@@qayssarenad6444 haha except I barely ever survive when I invade.
One thing that no one can deny ds3 did better is double bosses. Every single double boss in ER is trash
@@chantjelly6773 that's pretty fair, they were much more fair and balanced in dark souls
Great video, even though i cant relate. Going through leyndel and stormveil had me more stressed than anything in ds3, maybe except the undead settlement. Though maybe that's cause ER was my first souls game and after that i knew what to expect from these games
@@konstantinosmoschos1050 fair enough, everyone does have a differing opinion when it comes to feeling a certain way. Elden Ring just give me that same feel for some reason.