(@Josh23761) So true, I am half Irish/British and visit my Irish family quite a lot, I can say that the "fast" bit of what you said is true. But, that is just because she is Irish; Trust. 😂😂🇬🇧/🇨🇮
I absolutely LOVE how all the other pilots, immediately on hearing Captain Tool's idiocy, became super-polite and complimentary and passive-aggressive. Great stuff.
That's kinda how it works. Mutual respect. Even if she messed up (I don't believe she did) you just deal with it. Like an adult. Go file the safety report if you wish.
LOL.. it must be a psychological thing, they all suddenly became patient and cooperative as well as pro ATC
4 роки тому+2
Very unprofessional, actually. Tying up an already very busy frequency with irrelevant and inappropriate comments - they should all be reprimanded as should the BA pilot for engaging in an argument that should have been dealt with later. So many ignorant, arm-chair-know-it-alls on UA-cam comments........
actually he is not only a clown but also typically prejudiced. this pilot's attitude defines the historic relation between the english and the irish. in general english believe they are superior. having said so, the irish atc acted in a typical distinguished, eloquent and professional way.
I remember there was a controller at SFO , bay area and he would crack jokes. Example, Aztec 47P traffic 11 o clock, Northwest bound, probably John McEnroe in a 152 Hilarious
As someone whos played over 2.5 years on flight simulator I concur with you - hopefully if the shit hits the fan in my virtual flight fantasy world she'll be ther..............ahh who am I kidding - I'm fed up with living in my Grannys basement.
@@philmontejano5971 Theres a controller in Concord North Carolina (KJQF) who will sing you your clearance and instructions, he's awesome! Love going in and out of that place just for that!
+Jeremy Smith Nope, not to contain. She had previously advised that no further freq would be devoted to that convo, so the acknowledgment was a courteous shut down "...moving on and Fuck you very much" so to speak. :)
Deirdre McNamara She did try to contact him but he wasn't replying or responding. What else can she do? Run out and knock on the cockpit window and tell the pilot?
Just as an aside, as a thought-experiment, if you will: Assuming the ATC response was what people seem to think it should have been, ie. "Oh My God, I'm so sorry. That was a terrible mistake. Please give me another chance and please don't make my life difficult or potentially get me fired. Puhleeeease!" Is there ANY aviator out there, whatever Nationality, whatever Gender, who would then be comfortable taking any further instruction from that whiney, unsure, error-prone controller, begging for forgiveness? Just curious. (* I know I stepped into a US/THEM, National Pride whatever debate here, but I have no skin in the game, so it's mostly just amusing from my side)
D. Mark Detrixhe Ha, thanks. That's what I was hoping to hear! Even a bad pushback has further checks and balances to prevent disaster, which the pilot actually demonstrates happened by saying they were busy with the ground guys. And all said and done, it WAS a uniquely stressful time-frame for various reasons. Surely any competent aviator in the queue is going to be aware of this and compensate accordingly? If not, they perhaps need to find another job. I think most of the replies here are some weird "us versus them" point-scoring tango, that I don't understand as a foreigner. Thanks for the reply :)
I love that the other pilots, understanding the business (and dealing with it also) kept complimenting the controller on frequency. Captain Jerk knew he stood alone in his assessment and complaints.
considering that she told him much later than GC had and the fact an Air Lingus plane was behind him he had no where to go, sounds like a bit of preferential treatment to Irish Airlines, bit like the Spanish do frequently.
@@edwardashton7502 She was contacting him to notify him, but his line was out of reach (pilot was talking to other crew) and it was apparently somebody else's job to tell him So it was his fault and was in no position to file complaint and get angry to the ATC.
I agree completely. Captain Jerk would know without a shadow of a doubt that all the other pilots have had the same earful. He would also know the person he complains to will also listen to this recording.... I love how the others all complemented the ATC. Good stuff folks
basically, a bunch of planes were on the ground, and the british airways pilot was upset that his plane wasn't given right of way off the runway to be taxi'd back. The ATC was busy and was basically cuing a bunch of planes to get back to being taxi'd and cued the BA flight, which pissed him off
You have no idea what's happening? Thats ok. But we applaud your honesty at not being a very perceptive person. Other people, might hide that fact. But you, are the sort of person who, inexplicably....calls attention to their shortcomings. Way to go! "A" for honesty.. ..."F" for intellect.
He wasn't upset that he wasn't given right of way, he was annoyed that he wasn't informed of the change in plans due to miscommunication between him and the controller. They both should have handled it better.
I don't know if she actually told the tool or not but she handled it quite professionally. If it was Kennedy Steve, he would have told him to blow it out his ass.
@@trintygamesandrobloxandmor128 Actually, "tool" is a pretty old one in English. Tools in past were plain and crude. It's still used in situations where you can't afford to call the other idiot, because you have to maintain professionalism.
This is WAY less professional than the BA pilot. 1) He totally SHOULD put in a safety report. 2) you should never denigrate someone for putting in a safety report 3) It's polite to notify someone that you're putting one in, so the counterpart knows to put one in, so they don't get in trouble for NOT putting one in... This guy was just doing his job. the DICKHEAD was the ATR not listening out.
coolbrounderscore not really. The pilot didn’t get her calls about it so it’s not really anyone’s fault but he still didn’t need to act all confrontational.
@ It's like hockey. The rules are the rules, but when one player is playing mean you've got to bring in the enforcers and start a fight. Mean players stay mean for as long as they can get away with it.
They should have kept their nose out of it. They were only exacerbating a minor disagreement. Focus on their own aircraft. Clowns. "Good girl" - would ya ever fcuk off
It's amazing to me how they keep all their information straight: they hear it, repeat it exactly. Everything is said so quickly and only once. I'd have a difficult time keeping all that straight!
Actually, it's not quite as hard as most people think, because Control and the Cockpit already know what the other is going to advise 90% of the time, and the "lingo" that you are having to take a long time to try and translate in your head, is the language they speak. To you, when you hear the word Lima.......you get a picture in your mind that looks like....LIMA........but it's not.....it's "L"...and that's all. Foxtrot....just a plain old F. Usually the only real things you need to remember are the changes, but not the predictable courses and headings control will put on. But the reason why it's such an abbreviated lingo, is for the rapid transfer of potentially larger and more immediate transfer of information....ie.....emergencies.
Mike Mac And that's a very BIG deal that the real pro's know how to do. If you have any stress, panic, desperation, confusion, or just plain fright in your voice......you're gonna rattle the crew, then they start to raise their panic level, which makes the tower do the same, and so on, and so on, and before you know it.......everyone is to fucked up to properly do their job............ergo......passenger jet screws itself into the ground like a lawn dart!.
Cody38Super I get it. Worked race control for bikes and cars (race track). Keep calm and focused. Granted I was only working in two dimensions, but relied on the radio net to picture what was going on. Some tracks so big, a repeater was used to keep in communication with all stations. Kudos to anyone that has a headset on and maintains calm like this.
The Irish guys backing up their girl with passive aggressive chirps like “shoulda pushed out quicker” and “TOOL” while complimenting her and letting the BA pilot know that he can die on his hill. Solid gold.
This job seems like hell on earth. I got stressed out listening to 3 MINUTES of it. These people have some skills to be able to handle this all day long
I once had the privilege of watching air controllers live, and this was some years ago. Even then I marveled at their ability to juggle aircraft. Those folks retired at 55 because the job was extremely stressful and demanding. I don't know if that is still the case today.
@@Athaeus The BA pilot specifically tried to waive the culpability of Aer Lingus by saying "oh so it's his fault then?" Sarcastically, implying that it was her fault. The guy called him a tool because it was his fault, but the pilot was getting mad at the ATC
@@Athaeus I think he very much knew that he was very much aware that he was at fault, but called him a tool because he was rude to the ATC lady, who did nothing wrong.
Not sure why you’d get into a fight with the person controlling the flow of traffic. If you throw them off their game, they might make a mistake! Better to pep them up than put them down.
@ I am used to transcribing such exchanges but it takes a while to understand the context, when none is given. But on replaying this conversation, with many other planes, I didn't get the idea that the BA pilot said he would report a safety report. He never stated he would file a report againt the ATC, but at that time, my general understanding was that she had a very heavy workload that day. We also don't know WHY there was an busy day, whether this ATCo was overloaded because it was the start or end of her shift.
Lol!!!! His ego alone would could t for half load fully boarded!!! F.W V rude. ATC do a super stressful job. He got outback in his box! Fair play to other pilots. She was doing her job at full capacity n I'm sure all going fine until EGO stuck his "little" oar in. Great job by ATC! Keeping it all cool...👍👍👍👍👍 v impressed. I know what job entails as friend in this n its STRESSFUL. Only certain ppl actually can do this work. V v specific criteria n many either lose their place mid training or drop out. Nerves if steel &a very SHARP brain to name just two requirements..... .
It's a safety issue, had he followed her instructions there would have been a collision. Of course he would file the safety report. It's common courtesy to inform other parties you are going to file one, so they can too, as you WILL be reprimanded for not filing one if, like here, there was a real possibility of traffic conflict, and someone else has.
@@karlosbricks2413 She told Aer Lingus to give way to the Speedbird for push back but Aer Lingus decided to keep going and ended up in the way. It would not have been her fault if there was a collision. Not to mention, ground crew does the pushback and they are obviously not going to steer a parked aircraft backwards into another aircraft behind it. They are on the ground, they can see both aircraft.
@@karlosbricks2413 That's fine but you made it sound like she would have been at fault and I'm sick of it because, yes, fault IS relevant and it would not have been hers. Go watch a drunk Harrison Ford land on a taxiway and get out of here with "fault is irrelevant"
The speed and complexity of this information exchange is a testament to the amazing adaptability of the human brain, and the extraordinary skill of this traffic controller.
Basically Irish pilots were laughing at a British Pilots mistake. He then took offence to it and decided that he should report the ground control for not telling him what to do, when they were trying to tell him but he got distracted and never heard their call.
+PeacemanNOT I didn't hear a mistake by the BA pilot.... The only people who should be praised are the vigilant ground crew who didn't commence push black of the BA plane which would have resulted in a Collision with the air lingus plane. I see it as the controller's mistake....you only give clearance to punch back if the area is clear an will remain so. Obviously other factors may come into players I. E lack of staff and a busy period. There was no attempt to contact the BA pilot that I could here on that frequency. If fact it sounded like the BA crew tried to speak with ATC but it was interrupted by ATC transmission.
alan jackson Sorry mate... you're just butthurt Ireland is better. Better football fans... part of the EU... friendlier, even when we have the stereotype of being angry drunkards.
Besides the fact that there is a long history of the British thinking they are better than everyone else, multiply that by 10 fold for the way they treat the Irish
Tom Rogers don’t be self righteous. You guys do the same thing with the US. It doesn’t need to be pointed out that the people I’m referring to are the ones who deserve it.
What the hell was wrong with that guy? I can't see how there was a safety issue at all - as far as I can see he was just pissed off because the shamrock got the push before him. What an idiot for holding her on frequency at such a busy time, just to make a point. I thought she handled it brilliantly.
Yea like she has like 20 planes to deal with >.< like wtf. She is doing what she can. She is only human >.> tbh at least someone told you rather is was ground crew or not. But don’t yell at the lady who can ground your flight >.
Paul Garrett sounds like instead of just worrying about yourself (because thats what pilots do), maybe you should climb out of the cockpit, and climb in the tower. Give that a shot eh 😎😎😎
Usually those things backfire on the pilot. The controller is from now on being used as an example of emotional control and focus while the pilot is being considered just plain rude and unprofessional.
@@xx294 how did you know she got reprimanded? These things are shortened and not a complete picture of what happened. What happened clearly here was that we have an extremely rude pilot!
@@xx294 So don't reply, I am not forcing you to. He was clearly testy and short with her. Being petty and nattering back and forth about what she should have done? It is unnecessary and a waste of time.
That's 1 of the reasons why you have a pilot & a co-pilot ~ So that 1 of them can communicate with Ground Control while the other can keep their ears open for any additional communications from the Air Traffic Control Tower... ~ Captain Tool needed an attitude adjustment!!
Or in case of them is an idiot or is drunk, like the Delta pilot who got kicked off his fully boarded flight. No worries, he can claim he has a "disease " and return to work probably
how exactly? the frequency seemed to be all blocked to me, and I couldn't hear any of the warnings he apparently missed, any timestamp you can give me?
@@karlosbricks2413 It was not the pilots fault. Another bird should've let him out first, but they failed to comply with atc instructions. It is neither the fault of the butthurt pilot nor the fault of the controller.
I'm taking that "I'm filing a safety report" as similar to someone in a Facebook group announcing that they're disgusted with the group and leaving it. Bye, Felicia.
@@dalethelander3781 No. Air traffic safety is actually taken seriously. Filing a safety report for something like this is actually the right thing to do, and notifying the ATC of it is a courtesy. It sounds like it was the Aer Lingus that went out of order, causing a hazard, and the ATC warnings about it to the British Airways pilots weren't heard because the frequency was overloaded. Those are all things that would need to be addressed for the sake of passenger safety. Safety reports aren't there to blame someone, they're there to minimise the risk of accidents in aviation.
1:49 “..and I’m just too busy to continue any further conversation about this on frequency!” ATC Lady handled herself very well with the cranky British pilot. Loved the other pilot comments, “Tool!”
@@Jorn41 she wasn't arguing and instead trying to get clearance or something along those lines so she could take off, either you're slow or a troll. go touch grass.
There was a time when BA pilots were known for their impeccable professionalism. Arguing on freq is just inappropriate, especially when it's so busy. Conduct a safe operation first, and then, if necessary, deal with the non-emergency, currently resolved problem when the operation is complete. Never take it personally. These guys know better.
Um, the comment "You should of told us that already" sounds like arguing to me. But I agree BA crews have lost their polish and now are more tarnished than anything. You see it in the way jets are cleaned, maintained and flight crews respond on long haul even to passengers in Business or First Class. Almost like the crews don't give a bit of concern for anything they do. I heard someone refer to their planes as speedturd
Had a long career on the operations side. One time I was riding brakes in the cockpit of a DC-10 under tow to remote parking. Approaching the taxiway I noticed a line of 5 Southwest Airlines planes approaching. Queried the tower if I should hold short. Answer: "Negative, I want you to pull right out in front of them". Our tow rate was no better than 5 knots for one mile. I can only assume Southwest had pissed off the ground controller and he sent a message. LOL.
+Dublin Aviation Yes, I agree. Some are upset with "pilot banter" but I tried to say it eases tension. Taxi at PHX one afternoon with maybe 15 planes in line for takeoff. no id: "Delta 123 come up fingers". no reply no id: "Hey Delta 123 the 727, come up fingers" grd ATC: "uh, Delta 123 I think someone wants to talk to you on 123.45" (fingers) Delta: "Be advised delta professionals do not do such" ATC grd: "uh, whoever wants Delta, just go ahead" TWA "Yeah thanks ground. This is TWA 123. You want to tell those Delta professionals that their forward access door is open and hitting when they brake" ATC grd: "Delta 123 TWA ....reads it to them word for word... no response. ATC grd :"Delta 123, state your intentions" (laughter in background) Delta: "um, uh. . .we would like to return to the gate" ATC grd: Roger Delta, just pull to the side at the end and I'll get to you, and say thank you" Delta: "Roger, we'll pull over up here" (no thank you, no id) Someone keys their Mic and says, "Thank you TWA" Each aircraft in line repeats this in sequence with no id. Everyone's laughing. Wish I had a copy of that tape. TWA kind of dates it though. That hellhole door was messed up too. They had to have heard it. but. ..
DSLeicester Planes land and take off at Dublin everyone 75 seconds. I’m pretty sure she was actually busy. And technically it was the pilot’s fault. He should’ve been waiting for the ATC instead of radioing the ground crew. The info from the GC may have been incorrect and could’ve caused more problems or even an accident. Good things come to those who wait. He should’ve just been patient.
The person making this comment was a tool, if my FO/ Captain said that over the radio I'd think twice about flying with someone who thinks putting in a safety report is bitchy. It's not, it's part of the job description, and letting the other parties know is a courtesy.
@@DreamFreeFPV that BA pilot was violating protocol though, wasn't he? I mean, he tied up the frequency arguing with the ground controller after the almost, sort of, not really, "incident" with another aircraft who misunderstood the controllers instruction. The controller even, politely, had to cut him off and say that she is really far too busy to be arguing with him about who was at fault. Now, I'm not a pilot (medical disqual), but I'm something of an aviation buff, and my understanding is that the conversation should have been the pilot advising ground of the possible situation, ground confirming and explaining that the other aircraft had misunderstood her instructions, and then the BA pilot informing her he was going to file a safety report. Instead, you get this incredibly rude, sarcastic, and, worst of all, non-aviation related "Oh so it's his fault?" comment that is, in my interpretation, completely uncalled for, and intended to do nothing more than antagonize a possibly overworked controller. It's also telling that it's only /after/ the pilot of BAW81D hears the other pilots on frequency laughing at him that he informs ground of his intention to file a safety report. Is it within his right? Yes. Do I think he's doing it in retaliation for being embarrassed in front of the other pilots? Without a doubt. Is it a reportable incident? Maybe. I'm not familiar enough with the Irish regs to tell you, nor can we tell how close the two aircraft got. Was the pilot intentionally antagonizing and belittling the ground controller? I definitely think so, and I find his behavior to be incredibly unprofessional. The unnamed pilot was absolutely correct, this BA pilot was being an absolutely tool. From listening to this exchange, he was using the safety reporting system to get back at a controller who he felt had embarrassed him,and by doing so was undermining the effectiveness of that reporting system.
Good luck with that, Captain Happy. He said that he received the same information from the ground at the same time she was trying to radio him. So if he got the information he needed, from ANY source, what foul was committed that could be considered unsafe? The only safety issue I see here is a pilot with an attitude problem distracting an already overloaded ground controller. Whenever I hear a pilot act like this with ATC, I assume it's because he lost an argument with his wife that morning...and you can see why he lost the argument.
He was CLEARED to push back. If the ground crew had done just that they would have crashed into the Aer Lingus passing behind them: Turns out it wasn't clear after all. That's dangerous and the controllers fault.
And the first question BA are going to ask the pilots is why one of them wasn't listening out for ATC instructions while the other was talking to the ground staff?
It seems quite clear that other professional aviators (other pilots) took the same view as most of us listening, the controller was doing a good job. This behaviour from BA pilot seemed completely unnecessary and highly unprofessional. I may be missing something but it was clear from 30secs that they had been informed about being pushed back to 'charlie' It was very helpful to have the transcription.
They were Irish. Don't you get the Brit bashing tone here? It's ethnic, nothing to do with the actual situation where Ms.ATC made a serious error and BA pilot saved several hundred lives by going around her and checking with ground crews!
@bananamanuk TBP HYMAR. Pilots and air traffic controllers are almost exclusively professionals and seek to operate safely. don't turn this incident into something that it is not. When you are pushing back an aircraft if there is a aircraft pushing back at another adjacent gate then the controller normally would advise the Cockpit crew so that they can avoid a collision. I am sure that all those other Professional Aviators [ using your own words ] would require the same consideration if they were pushing back from the gate.
controllers are very busy and handle multiple aircraft at the same time, so sometimes they may intend to do something immediately but may have to defer that action to deal with a more immediate situation. there is no bad intent here and the airline industry normally evaluates these incidents to improve safety, so its not unusual to do a report in such an incident.
@Sean O'Nilbud Great example of sexual harassment of a female who you disagree with. We are all working hard to change that dynamic and realize that those comments are inappropriate and degrading.
I was scrolling through the comments looking for the first tool who would make this about Britain/Ireland - and it was you congrats. It’s not about countries - it’s about arseholes.
Nope - wrong again - things are tense between arseholes. I can guarantee that 99.999999% of people from both countries can happily spend time drinking and watching the football together without even a hint of bad feeling.
Just before we all hang the BA guy out to dry here (no sides taken).... Correct me if I'm wrong - ATC cleared the Speedbird to push 'point C' AFTER the Ryanair 737 passes behind and told the Stobart (Aer Lingus) to hold position. ATC then cleared the Stobart (Aer Lingus) to push to point B after the Ryanair parked then suddenly remembers to caution Stobart of the BA aircraft pushing to point C. BA then interrupts the transmission stating they have stopped the push due to the Stobart (Aer Lingus) being in the way. The ATC response is now to give way to the Stobart then continue push - not what the original clearance was. ATC also said she was trying to contact him on frequency?! We didn't hear that bit and I can only assume this sound clip was shortened? Either way ATC cocked up the original clearance, Speedbird should have been listening (if indeed she did try to contact him which there is no evidence of) and thirdly the manner in which Speedbird had a grievance was unprofessional but what about all the local pilots calling them a tool - not exactly professional either. In summary, disorganised ramp congestion which to all those who aren't local crew operating in and out of this airport will probably agree is all too familiar. Ryanair have had a few wing tip strikes here recently so there's clearly an issue at this airport. Cheers.
There is a bit missing here. BA is cleared to push after the RYR passes and the stobart is to wait until BA has pushed however after the RYR parked the BA sat on stand and didn't move....as a result the stobart was cleared to push and atc told the BA to wait however BA missed this as they were not listening on ground frequency. You can hear the stobart captain telling them to push quicker in future. The clip cuts out atc calling the BA to hold.
I hear a "trying to call you" but no actual call to BA81D stopping the push-back. Has the "tape" been edited? I do hear some childish & unprofessional comments by others who should know better.
Played this for former head of ATC, who had two observations. Firstly, the amount of planes she was dealing with was unusually high but she did remain very calm and professional. Secondly, there are two British Airways pilots. Both of them should not have been communicating with ground crew; one should have been on frequency to take direction from ATC. The actual safety issue is one of negligence on behalf of the BA crew, failure to adhere to comms protocol.
Calm and professional BUT missed out an important instruction to the BAW pilot. If ATC ground was that busy then maybe the controller shouldn't have pushed back so many aircraft in close proximity at once. And where was delivery/planner controller.
That's what professionals do. When someone tells me "I'm going to file a complaint about you" (or something to that effect), I always answer with "Thank you. We always look forward to learn from our mistakes. Here is the card of my captain and his number." Takes the wind right out of their sails most of the time - and if they have a genuine complaint and aren't just venting, then it is actually worth to look into it. Maybe I did something wrong and they are just bad at explaining the problem...
Tony Skywalker listen write down one pilot is taxing the plane while the other is communicating pilots will write the stuff down so it’s easier to repeat
BoZzie Not always the case. Usually you know what the ATC is going to say before they say it so it’s more just making that’s what’s happening. Taxing instructions can get a bit complicated but if you know the layout of the taxiways then it makes it a bit easier. But about 60-70% of the calls are just confirming what you already know and either go one of two ways. You get what your expecting or they tell you that’s not going to happen then you need to open your ears. But most good pilots can listen whilst doing other things at the same time and read back no problem.
Really once you understand some basic things, ATC conversations are pretty straightforward. It varies by governing body (I'm pretty sure the FAA doesn't require a push and start, and we don't call then stands but rather gates) but the brunt of the terminology is universal. You can learn a lot from playing FSX, and I've learned even more from watching airforceproud95 😂 those are two great resources for this kind of stuff
@@djm.6322 It is pretty standard. If you just listen to some conversations you can pick it up easily. I also fly about 20 hours a week on FSX. You can even get "real" ATC with FSX Add ons like VoxATC and ProATC. You can file VFR and IFR flight plans with these add ons and there are actual human controllers who will berate you if you don't use proper radio discipline. You can also just listen in on some of them if you want to pick up the lingo.
You've absolutely nothing to be embarrassed about. The attitude of one plonker is not a reflection of a good airline. I'm sure he'll get a bit of a dressing down back at base.
@Johnny Threebollocks sorry remind me, how many aircraft and souls has BA lost and how many have Aer Lingus or Ryanair? Which of the 3 airlines flies to EU regulations which allows suicidal pilots crash their plan and which 2 operate the FAA sterile cockpit and no man left alone policies, BA arent looking so 1st rate now, also the BA pilot admits to 'not listening to atc frequency because talking to ground crew', the BA pilot admits to not listening to the one radio channel they must always be listening to while in a cockpit!
I was listening to this from the article on breaking news earlier on!! I totally love this channel massive fan of aviation and I live 5 mins from dub airport I'm always watching them land and take off! A sub and a like for you good sir!
+TJ Wykes I can't say I have!! I know a guy who's dad was an air traffic controller for Shannon though that's about as close as it gets haha... I do listen to it though sometimes on live atc if I can't sleep in the am, as all the transatlantic flights are passing in the wee hours 😉
I'm involved in a very different kind of dispatch. However, the lady on ATC was amazing and doing a very demanding job. Shout out to those pilots who were being supportive. Captain Tool could do with some lessons in how to show proper respect.
Many comments here forget that this was the busiest day of the year and the ATC had 15 aircraft to deal with at once. Personally I would have found that very difficult to deal with, and even if she was at fault (which I don't think she is) credit has to be given to her for having so many different situations to manage on the go. The BA pilot should have been more understanding. He has one plane to deal with which is a difficult enough job, she had 15.
Just posted about the possibility of her being overwhelmed, but she made a serious error. She is at fault, but instead of apologizing she tried to throw it back on the BA pilot. If he had not used initiative and checked with ground staff, he and the Delta could be winging their way to Heaven. An American pilot might have read her in some pretty colorful terms, and justifiably, but BA was courteous and cool. If she apologized that would be the last of it. I wouldn't want her job, but in my experience too many Irish women in positions of authority feel licensed to be extremely rude and unprofessional and never apologize. One witch at the Malahide Library some years ago, literally erased a play that I had written for the RTE Radio Playwrighting contest, because she wanted to go to lunch! Didn't need any calories by the looks of her.
People can make mistakes, the BA pilot I'm sure would have been noble about it, but her attitude is DANGEROUS! Make a mistake, own to it and correct the fundamental situation.
If that were my aim, alan scott, I'd write a book - or five! Seriously, Irish people are not all bigots like you, but there is a low esteem element that still blames Britain for Ireland's current woes, and takes any chance you can to throw bricks at the Brits - and this is one of them. Objectively speaking, ATC goofed up in a difficult situation; BA saved the day, but was understandably not happy that he and his passengers were put at risk, but was still polite, and was correct to file a report. If DA is that busy, they may need extra staff. Not my favorite airport, had horrid experiences there last touchdown. Love Shannon. Best in the world.
Kennedy Steve would be more commanding in his "KENNEDY GROUND TO AER LINGUS! STOP!" and "EARTH TO SPEEDBIRD 81 DELTA!! CAUTION AER LINGUS TRYING TO RAM YOU!". And he would make fun of the whole thing, and not be passive-aggressive about it. And probably welcome a safety report since this was actually a safety risk.
Approach can be even worse, believe me, as their are many different dialects which need practice to understand, Local (Tower )control can vary, accents take a while to get used to but aren't impossible)in addition the TOWER controller also has the Safety Aspects, plus Push Back traffic Plus re-fueling,Safety and some areas, even Customs & Excise. Variety is the name of the game.
Controllers [ in my humble opinion ] make very few errors, but I am sure that there is some embarrassment for Pilots to admit the occasions that a controller saved their A$$.
I wonder who was reprimanded in the end? Capt. Happy for not having one of his many radios on the tower while pushing back? Talking to ramp crew is crumby reason to not hear atc calls.
Catherine, pushback is exactly what it sounds like, the aircraft is pushed back from the gate or stand using a tug. They *could* use reverse thrust to back up, but this is highly dangerous, and potentially could damage the engines, so they just wait until they are away from the terminal to complete engine startup.
Glad to hear somebody taking sense. She gave unsafe instruction and the tried to cover her arse. If she was overloaded then that in itself is a separate safety issue for which the controller and supervisor must answer. However I do believe the BA pilot acted unproffesionally with his comments.
Let me explain : The law states that planes in an offside position, when the runway is being landed on by another plane, may not actively approach the runway. A plane is in an offside position if any of the body parts with which it can touch the runway during any other part of the landing is in another's plane's half of the runway and closer to the other plane's landing line than both the runway and the second-to-last plane (usually, but not necessarily always, the last plane in front of the landing tower). Being in an offside position is not an offence in itself; at the moment the plane is landed by the copilot, the plane must also be "actively supervised by the pilot" in the opinion of the controller, in order for an offence not to occur.] When the offside offence occurs, the controller stops the flight and awards the takeoff to the next plane from the position of the offending plane. The offside offence is neither a foul nor a misconduct, planes are never booked or sent off for offside. Like fouls, however, any flight that occurs after an offence has taken place but before the controller is able to stop the flight is nullified. Planes that continue such a flight may be booked based on the controller's assessment of how significant or intentional the flight was and that's basically it.
In a nutshell, the British Airways was taking his sweet time getting pushed back. Meantime another aircraft pushed back. The controller tried to tell the BA pilot to hold, but he was busy yucking it up and not listening to the radio. There are two pilots, so there is no excuse for that.
Anyone got an e-mail address for Willie Walsh? I'd send him this. I doubt he'd be impressed with this idiot! She was brilliant, and wasn't rattled by him.
i know a fair amount about this, as I want to be a pilot and start training in about a year, but it is easier for people to understand when you have the words on the screen to read along with.
I've always thought of speedbird pilots as being the most professional and competent, but I suppose there's always one. I hope he filed his report and everything was looked into, just to show what a total rectum he was and put it on the record.
Aer Lingus STK96L were the ones at fault and total pricks. BA got too defensive but not extremely rude at all. On the other hand "Good Girl", "Tool!" That's just unprofessional.
If you read the below you'll see that the BA pilot was not at fault. Also, a place full of aeroplanes with the lives of hundreds of people at risk is hardly the place to be having 'fun' although I don't expect a degenerate like you to understand that. "Basically, Speedbird was given clearance to push back after RyanAir 737 passed behind them. Ground then told Stobart 96pl ( Air Lingus) to stand by for further instruction after they had called for clearance to push. Stobart 96 pl was then informed RyanAir 737 was parking on stand 125 behind them and could then push back. So Speedbird started to push back and and then Stobart 96 pl also started to push back. So what actually went right was that speedbirds ground crew halted the push as stobart 96 pl was creating a hazard for them. What went wrong was that Stobarts 96pl ground crew prematurely pushed. Also Ground did not try to notify speedbird of the conflict that was going to happen. What ground did was try and inform stobart 96pl of speedbirds push. Where the unprofessional comments started is when stobart 96pl said to speedbird they should've pushed off gate quicker. When they were clearly in the wrong. Ground and tower make mistakes and what they will never do is admit to their mistakes. Otherwise they could face reviews and/or suspension depending on severity. Even when called out on it. Good thing that all ATC communication is recorded and the tapes can always be pulled to review. Speedbird is in the right to file his safety report. Now I am not bashing tower as they have a difficult job and can be very busy, at times maxed. That's when mistakes will happen. Everyone just needs to be aware. Pilots also need to curb their ego, the ones that were mocking speedbird would have done the same thing if it had happened to them."
We're on UA-cam. We can confidently ascertain that almost none of the people in this comment section are trained in the aviation industry. At least I hope as much. Otherwise I'd be concerned that people are angry at the _one pilot_ who brought up the safety hazard, and cheer for the people cluttering the frequency with unprofessional name-calling, mocking laughter and bashing of a pilot that places safety first.
We are being invited to pillory the BA pilot here but I don't think there's enough information to justify doing that. Also one would need to be knowledgeable about aviation protocols to make an informed judgment. But of course that doesn't stop people - most of whom presumably are uninformed about such protocols - from queuing up to have a go at the pilot. Not nice.
There are two planes side by side at their gates waiting to be pushed back. She gives the BA approval to push back. She tells Stobart to "listen out", i.e. that she's gave BA approval to push right next to her. She then gives approval to Stobart to push and cautions them that the BA is also pushing out. Everyone on freq understands the situation, and it's not particularly dangerous. One of the planes has to push out, then the other can. It's seems ground expected the BA to push sooner, and tried to get Stobart to wait, but the BA was too slow and Stobart pushed first so he had to wait. That's what the "get off the stand quicker" comment was about. BA kinda screwed up the situation by not pushing quicker and then hassled ground about it. That being said, ground could have made it much more clear to Stobart that they had to wait for the BA to push.
Yes, but you're wrong. There was an Aer Lingus plane passing behind the BA. If the ground crew hadn't stopped pushing the BA two planes loaded with jet fuel and 300+ passengers would have collided. The BA pilots were CLEARED to push back. They did and was startled at the Aer Lingus suddenly passing behind them. It turned out it wasn't clear after all and that is the controllers fault. The accident was avoided but it shouldn't depend on luck, that's not how aviation safety works.
@@ThorsteinKlingenbergPL Yeah ... no. It was a Stobart Air STOBART96PL ATR, probably liveried as Aer Lingus Regional which was cleared to push at 0:53 with the warning "caution there's a British Airways on your left will be pushing back also to Charlie." When she gave the BA clearance to push it was clear to push. He just took his time. I think you can fault her for not giving clear instructions to Stobart. Her warning is ambiguous. If she wanted Stobart to wait for the BA (which is what she says at 1:37), she should have said so directly not just implied it. And I guess technically she should have repeated the warning to the BA pilot, but practically he should have been monitoring the freq and understood the situation like everyone else did.
@@Sphere723 They didn't have to, they were given clearance and could push back at their leisure. Also, the ground crew pushes them back, so if they were slow it wasn't necessarily the pilots fault. As the Stobart/Aer Lingus was second in line and told to wait, they should have stopped, and asked the ground controller to get priority before passing. Then she could have asked the BA what the delay was and possibly told them to hold while the ATR passed behind them. She showed poor situational awareness and her unsafe actions were dangerous. The pilots were totally right in pointing that out. As for the other "professionals" on the frequency... They made themselves look like the biggest tool on the field.
The biggest air-crash in history was caused by an impatient arrogant captain. The Grace of God is in Courtesy. Well done ATC a credit to Irish professionalism and skill.
Thank you William I could not remember the details but had a vague recollection. It shows how awful arrogance can be when it drives someone in control of an aircraft to act impulsively.
One thing that sure is that Irish pilots(or pilots trained in Ireland) do not fear landing in crosswinds, unless they are gust of over 40+ knots, they stay calm and put the plane down like as if there was no wind, I'm going to begin my pilot training in Dublin(or Cork) after I finish my secondary school, currently in 5th year.. A little bit more
What message from ATC on this tape didn't 81D listen to? Do you hear anything in this video warning the BA crew that there is an Aer Lingus passing behind and pushing back wasn't clear at all, it was down right dangerous.
@@ThorsteinKlingenberg She expected 81D to have been monitoring the freq and heard her warning to Stobart and understood the situation. The other pilots on freq clearly did. But yeah, she didn't repeat the warning to 81D and she didn't really give clear instructions. Just a kinda work it out among yourselves. Which isn't a great practice for a Ground Controller.
@@Sphere723 It's a great practice to create an accident. The 81D was given clearance, first, and with no limitations. They had no expectations of anything being in their way.
the BA pilot was a tool for his reaction, but insulting 70 million people because of his actions is just strange. If I showed you a video of another nation's pilots acting like that, would you condemn them all? I work in aviation and the reputation Australian ATC and pilots have is not something I will share on this platform. I'm a far too polite pom, as you would insultingly call me.
Even the EI pilot who was supposed to give way to BA (I'm sure a simple case of human error as a result of the busiest day of the year) said "good girl". The BA pilot just didn't like his pride dented. He _had_ to make sure she knew it was "her fault" and how dare she answer him back with logic or fact. She wasn't taking any shit, her professionalism never wavered. You go girl!
Way to work those identity pronouns! I, for one, demand to know the flight attendants' opinion on the matter. As well as the guy who cleans the shitters in the terminal building. Otherwise it's just a bunch of rich white people talking and I instinctively tune that out, yo.
That BA pilot needs to get a grip, the controller is pushed to her limit handling all aircraft. Glad to hear how many pilots appreciated her work on that day. An BA wonder why their passenger numbers have dropped over the years
I don't know if she actually did try to contact him - would've been nice to be included in the video if she did. However, the pilot should really not block the frequency for this nonsense. After informing the controller of the situation, he should just shut up and file the safety report if he feels so inclined. By blocking the frequency, he's just causing unnecessary delays and, ironically, could make the controller unable to inform other pilots of potential safety hazards in time...
There's only one rude person on that call, and it is the air traffic controller. The BA pilot just pointed out the confusion with no anger in his voice at all. He says calmly "you should have told us that before really" Her response was "I was trying to call you, you weren't listening out..." How does she know he "wasn't listening"? That is what is rude and annoys the BA pilot. Her tone is also of annoyance rather than calmness, and it is this comment which turns this sour.
Wrong Dr Meat. Look at the Airport Charts, Airport Specific 1.6. Taxi Procedures: "ATC may require ACFT to manoeuvre in close proximity to other ACFT. Avoidance of other ACFT is the responsibility of flight crew involved. If doubt exists as to whether an ACFT can be passed safely, flight crew should STOP, advise ATC, and request alternative instructions if available." That's the rules BA skipped when he should have read.
Ground controllers have one job to ensure the aircraft on the ground don't crash into one another. Most aircraft don't have rearview mirrors At the stand the pilot is relying on the controller to ensure nothing is behind him. Clearly he was told he could push back and only the workers around the aircraft stopped a potential collision. This would be classed as a near miss and it was the pilots duty to report it and he would have faced disciplinary action had he failed to do so. He sounded quite composed considering.
I'm not claiming to be an expert but from what I heard she was trying to contact and inform him about it and he was just on a different frequency when he should have been listening for her but like I said I'm not an expert so maybe she was in the wrong
So the "assumption" is that for some reason we don't know about, he changed frequency for no apparent reason, then changed back to talk to ATC again all in a few seconds? And that has to be true because it is the only way ATC remains blameless? If ATC told him to back out into "traffic" then ATC was at fault before anything else happened, and it has to be reported. Everything after that is just noise.
I have watched this video so many times..I just love the professionalism of the controller..as sharp as a razor of course... great backing up from the other pilots...
![Angry New York ATC argues with Aer Lingus pilot [ATC Audio]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/w1r3XZQc4Zo/mqdefault.jpg)
![Angry New York ATC argues with Aer Lingus pilot [ATC Audio]](/img/tr.png)
"Copied sir thanks"
That was her ATC equivalent of "k".
Malicious kindness. Effectively she told the pilot to stick his dick in one of the plane's engines.
@@Dr_Monitor the pitot tube would probably be a more proper size
Cory Therriault lmao
Imagine the Irish begging for independence then realise how dependent they are on others and give their independence away to the EU 😂😂😂
@@CD.91 History says yes they did invade you ,more than twice . Good luck selling that butter and ale to europe
The woman in the ATC has the perfect voice for this job, crystal clear yet also fast and professional.
Just thinking that after watching an hour of ATC! XD
sounds like maeve wiley
Olivia Ardy But she has a British accent, this ATCer is Irish.
@@AramiMedia she has an Irish accent, its is very soft however.
(@Josh23761) So true, I am half Irish/British and visit my Irish family quite a lot, I can say that the "fast" bit of what you said is true. But, that is just because she is Irish; Trust. 😂😂🇬🇧/🇨🇮
I absolutely LOVE how all the other pilots, immediately on hearing Captain Tool's idiocy, became super-polite and complimentary and passive-aggressive. Great stuff.
That's kinda how it works. Mutual respect. Even if she messed up (I don't believe she did) you just deal with it. Like an adult. Go file the safety report if you wish.
LOL.. it must be a psychological thing, they all suddenly became patient and cooperative as well as pro ATC
Very unprofessional, actually. Tying up an already very busy frequency with irrelevant and inappropriate comments - they should all be reprimanded as should the BA pilot for engaging in an argument that should have been dealt with later.
So many ignorant, arm-chair-know-it-alls on UA-cam comments........
@ I'm guessing you're British then🤷
We call that simping
That girl is sharp as a razor. Great to hear the other pilots backing her up. The B A pilot is a clown.
actually he is not only a clown but also typically prejudiced.
this pilot's attitude defines the historic relation between the english and the irish.
in general english believe they are superior.
having said so, the irish atc acted in a typical distinguished, eloquent and professional way.
Well actually they are superior. It's only the Irish that would argue against that.
Or a tool, as one pilot called him 😆
MariaA Dv Survivor well said.
@@asedky are you on drugs
As a 40 year ATC, my hats off to that controller for her professionalism and keeping her cool.
I remember there was a controller at SFO , bay area and he would crack jokes.
Example, Aztec 47P traffic 11 o clock, Northwest bound, probably John McEnroe in a 152
Hilarious
Phil Montejano That’s why ‘Kennedy Steve’ was so great when he worked at JFK.
@@yammmit thanks for realizing that , unlike novices
As someone whos played over 2.5 years on flight simulator I concur with you - hopefully if the shit hits the fan in my virtual flight fantasy world she'll be ther..............ahh who am I kidding - I'm fed up with living in my Grannys basement.
@@philmontejano5971 Theres a controller in Concord North Carolina (KJQF) who will sing you your clearance and instructions, he's awesome! Love going in and out of that place just for that!
That "OH MY GOD" from the Air Lingus pilot got me 💀
That was the best part honestly.
Tyler Killion yup
And then the "Tool!" right afterwards haha.
It was, "Owh Moi Gawd" in British accent. Lul
It's Aer Lingus ;)
She was very professional. She even said thanks when he said he was filing a safety report.
+Jeremy Smith Nope, not to contain. She had previously advised that no further freq would be devoted to that convo, so the acknowledgment was a courteous shut down "...moving on and Fuck you very much" so to speak. :)
Deirdre McNamara She did try to contact him but he wasn't replying or responding. What else can she do? Run out and knock on the cockpit window and tell the pilot?
That was ex post facto, bennydman
Just as an aside, as a thought-experiment, if you will: Assuming the ATC response was what people seem to think it should have been, ie. "Oh My God, I'm so sorry. That was a terrible mistake. Please give me another chance and please don't make my life difficult or potentially get me fired. Puhleeeease!"
Is there ANY aviator out there, whatever Nationality, whatever Gender, who would then be comfortable taking any further instruction from that whiney, unsure, error-prone controller, begging for forgiveness? Just curious.
(* I know I stepped into a US/THEM, National Pride whatever debate here, but I have no skin in the game, so it's mostly just amusing from my side)
D. Mark Detrixhe Ha, thanks. That's what I was hoping to hear! Even a bad pushback has further checks and balances to prevent disaster, which the pilot actually demonstrates happened by saying they were busy with the ground guys.
And all said and done, it WAS a uniquely stressful time-frame for various reasons. Surely any competent aviator in the queue is going to be aware of this and compensate accordingly? If not, they perhaps need to find another job. I think most of the replies here are some weird "us versus them" point-scoring tango, that I don't understand as a foreigner.
Thanks for the reply :)
I love that the other pilots, understanding the business (and dealing with it also) kept complimenting the controller on frequency. Captain Jerk knew he stood alone in his assessment and complaints.
considering that she told him much later than GC had and the fact an Air Lingus plane was behind him he had no where to go, sounds like a bit of preferential treatment to Irish Airlines, bit like the Spanish do frequently.
Captain jerk lol it’s almost 2am here and I’m lmao.
As a pilot myself I appreciate a competent atc. Very stressful at time.
@@edwardashton7502
She was contacting him to notify him, but his line was out of reach (pilot was talking to other crew) and it was apparently somebody else's job to tell him
So it was his fault and was in no position to file complaint and get angry to the ATC.
'dERELICT' STFU.
I agree completely. Captain Jerk would know without a shadow of a doubt that all the other pilots have had the same earful. He would also know the person he complains to will also listen to this recording.... I love how the others all complemented the ATC. Good stuff folks
If this Brit pilot had pulled that stunt at JFK, ATL, or LAX he would still be waiting in line for take-off.
condemned to the penalty boxes
@@thatflywelshguy9662 Doin' laps...
I'd love to see how that conversation would have gone if Kennedy Steve were in the tower....
At all of those they have ramp controllers, so it wouldn't happen.
@@stephenhusak6098 I heard he retired :(
I honestly have no idea whats happening.
basically, a bunch of planes were on the ground, and the british airways pilot was upset that his plane wasn't given right of way off the runway to be taxi'd back. The ATC was busy and was basically cuing a bunch of planes to get back to being taxi'd and cued the BA flight, which pissed him off
You have no idea what's happening? Thats ok. But we applaud your honesty at not being a very perceptive person. Other people, might hide that fact. But you, are the sort of person who, inexplicably....calls attention to their shortcomings. Way to go! "A" for honesty..
..."F" for intellect.
Thanks Marcy. I mean it might just be the fact that I'm not an air traffic controller. Is the average person supposed to know all these call signs?
He wasn't upset that he wasn't given right of way, he was annoyed that he wasn't informed of the change in plans due to miscommunication between him and the controller. They both should have handled it better.
I don't know if she actually told the tool or not but she handled it quite professionally. If it was Kennedy Steve, he would have told him to blow it out his ass.
one pilot said 'Tool', that sums up my thoughts on the matter perfectly.
Dean Ford but a tool is actually useful unlike this idiot. By calling him a tool you give all the tools in the world a bad name. 😂🤣
@@trintygamesandrobloxandmor128 Actually, "tool" is a pretty old one in English. Tools in past were plain and crude. It's still used in situations where you can't afford to call the other idiot, because you have to maintain professionalism.
I dont understand what he means english is my second language
Mobarak Alajmi calling someone a tool is like calling them a jerk or an asshole.
Trintygamesandrobloxandmore Tool is a euphemism for dick.
The pilot who said "Tool" is never going to have to buy beer for the rest of his life!
Most likely not; but so many times a thing not intended is said on air....
Yes because he will crash soon
This is WAY less professional than the BA pilot. 1) He totally SHOULD put in a safety report. 2) you should never denigrate someone for putting in a safety report 3) It's polite to notify someone that you're putting one in, so the counterpart knows to put one in, so they don't get in trouble for NOT putting one in... This guy was just doing his job. the DICKHEAD was the ATR not listening out.
@@DreamFreeFPV you must be a brit.
@@DreamFreeFPV I believe u are a British. But, I'm sure most British who watch this video won't agree with u though.
I love her dismissive, yet professional replies. I especially love how the other pilots supports her.
yamisoaegyeo Pretty sure she gave an improper pushback clearance though
@@coolbrounderscore I wouldn't really know since I'm not an ATC🤷♀️
coolbrounderscore not really. The pilot didn’t get her calls about it so it’s not really anyone’s fault but he still didn’t need to act all confrontational.
No pilot should tie up radio time however much they think about it, it is dangerous whether in the air or on the ground and unprofessional
@@user-de4cq6uk6l There's no sign that she made the calls she mentioned, they're not in the recording. She may have just said that to cover her arse.
The “doing a great job thanks” from the two aircraft after the complaint just put the nail in the coffin.
@ It's like hockey. The rules are the rules, but when one player is playing mean you've got to bring in the enforcers and start a fight. Mean players stay mean for as long as they can get away with it.
They should have kept their nose out of it. They were only exacerbating a minor disagreement. Focus on their own aircraft. Clowns. "Good girl" - would ya ever fcuk off
It's amazing to me how they keep all their information straight: they hear it, repeat it exactly. Everything is said so quickly and only once. I'd have a difficult time keeping all that straight!
Actually, it's not quite as hard as most people think, because Control and the Cockpit already know what the other is going to advise 90% of the time, and the "lingo" that you are having to take a long time to try and translate in your head, is the language they speak. To you, when you hear the word Lima.......you get a picture in your mind that looks like....LIMA........but it's not.....it's "L"...and that's all. Foxtrot....just a plain old F. Usually the only real things you need to remember are the changes, but not the predictable courses and headings control will put on. But the reason why it's such an abbreviated lingo, is for the rapid transfer of potentially larger and more immediate transfer of information....ie.....emergencies.
Easier to understand i you had her view. She is smooth and calm in all of this.
Mike Mac
And that's a very BIG deal that the real pro's know how to do. If you have any stress, panic, desperation, confusion, or just plain fright in your voice......you're gonna rattle the crew, then they start to raise their panic level, which makes the tower do the same, and so on, and so on, and before you know it.......everyone is to fucked up to properly do their job............ergo......passenger jet screws itself into the ground like a lawn dart!.
Cody38Super
I get it. Worked race control for bikes and cars (race track). Keep calm and focused. Granted I was only working in two dimensions, but relied on the radio net to picture what was going on. Some tracks so big, a repeater was used to keep in communication with all stations. Kudos to anyone that has a headset on and maintains calm like this.
Mike Mac
precisely sir! a very large kudos! it must be terribly hard to keep a straight face when you know people are headed for to their peril.
The Irish guys backing up their girl with passive aggressive chirps like “shoulda pushed out quicker” and “TOOL” while complimenting her and letting the BA pilot know that he can die on his hill. Solid gold.
Unprofessional, biased...something I’m starting to pick up on with Irish pilots/airlines. Cheers from the US
@@mamavswild one could say full of it.
@@mamavswild Go hug some more Limeys you'll feel better
Pretty unprofessional from all involved
@@martf8014 why?.
This job seems like hell on earth. I got stressed out listening to 3 MINUTES of it. These people have some skills to be able to handle this all day long
My thoughts exactly.
I once had the privilege of watching air controllers live, and this was some years ago. Even then I marveled at their ability to juggle aircraft. Those folks retired at 55 because the job was extremely stressful and demanding. I don't know if that is still the case today.
It is one of the top most stressful jobs in the world!!!
They only work shifts of 3 hours if i remember correctly. At least in the US.
Nightmare job! They should be very well paid! 🙈🙈
Kudos to that one pilot who called him a tool.
@@baldknober124 Is that you, Speedbird 81?
That was the Aer Lingus pilot who was the one that was at fault. Of course he's going to insult the person calling him out on his actions.
@@Athaeus The BA pilot specifically tried to waive the culpability of Aer Lingus by saying "oh so it's his fault then?" Sarcastically, implying that it was her fault. The guy called him a tool because it was his fault, but the pilot was getting mad at the ATC
@@Athaeus I think he very much knew that he was very much aware that he was at fault, but called him a tool because he was rude to the ATC lady, who did nothing wrong.
Not sure why you’d get into a fight with the person controlling the flow of traffic. If you throw them off their game, they might make a mistake! Better to pep them up than put them down.
I don't see it as a fight, he's just commenting on why it occured and trying to regain SA when clearly there was lots of blocked coms.
@@DreamFreeFPV even hogging the frequency on a busy day?
@@DreamFreeFPV these tense situations occur maybe more than we think. Now new technologies might be helpful in future, especially now.
@@magentaMegi THAT'S the main problem here. The BA pilot and the other pilots tying up a very busy ATC frequency.
@ I am used to transcribing such exchanges but it takes a while to understand the context, when none is given. But on replaying this conversation, with many other planes, I didn't get the idea that the BA pilot said he would report a safety report. He never stated he would file a report againt the ATC, but at that time, my general understanding was that she had a very heavy workload that day. We also don't know WHY there was an busy day, whether this ATCo was overloaded because it was the start or end of her shift.
Something tells me he never filed that safety report
If he did, I'd like to see the result of it.
Lol!!!! His ego alone would could t for half load fully boarded!!! F.W
V rude. ATC do a super stressful job.
He got outback in his box!
Fair play to other pilots.
She was doing her job at full capacity n I'm sure all going fine until EGO stuck his "little" oar in.
Great job by ATC! Keeping it all cool...👍👍👍👍👍 v impressed.
I know what job entails as friend in this n its STRESSFUL.
Only certain ppl actually can do this work.
V v specific criteria n many either lose their place mid training or drop out.
Nerves if steel &a very SHARP brain to name just two requirements..... .
It's a safety issue, had he followed her instructions there would have been a collision. Of course he would file the safety report. It's common courtesy to inform other parties you are going to file one, so they can too, as you WILL be reprimanded for not filing one if, like here, there was a real possibility of traffic conflict, and someone else has.
@@karlosbricks2413 She told Aer Lingus to give way to the Speedbird for push back but Aer Lingus decided to keep going and ended up in the way. It would not have been her fault if there was a collision. Not to mention, ground crew does the pushback and they are obviously not going to steer a parked aircraft backwards into another aircraft behind it. They are on the ground, they can see both aircraft.
@@karlosbricks2413 That's fine but you made it sound like she would have been at fault and I'm sick of it because, yes, fault IS relevant and it would not have been hers. Go watch a drunk Harrison Ford land on a taxiway and get out of here with "fault is irrelevant"
The speed and complexity of this information exchange is a testament to the amazing adaptability of the human brain, and the extraordinary skill of this traffic controller.
"Amazing adaptability of the human brain" xD
True, but you get used to it fairly quickly.
It's more practice than skill, really.
Agreed ... by the time the air traffic controler has finished her command I've already forgotten what she said at beginning of message ..
@@isitwasit8756 Simply bc you're not trained and used to it.
i have never been more confused in my life
Are you American?
Basically Irish pilots were laughing at a British Pilots mistake. He then took offence to it and decided that he should report the ground control for not telling him what to do, when they were trying to tell him but he got distracted and never heard their call.
+PeacemanNOT lololol
+PeacemanNOT I didn't hear a mistake by the BA pilot.... The only people who should be praised are the vigilant ground crew who didn't commence push black of the BA plane which would have resulted in a Collision with the air lingus plane. I see it as the controller's mistake....you only give clearance to punch back if the area is clear an will remain so. Obviously other factors may come into players I. E lack of staff and a busy period. There was no attempt to contact the BA pilot that I could here on that frequency. If fact it sounded like the BA crew tried to speak with ATC but it was interrupted by ATC transmission.
alan jackson
Sorry mate... you're just butthurt Ireland is better. Better football fans... part of the EU... friendlier, even when we have the stereotype of being angry drunkards.
I pray this happens at JFK so I can listen to a controller verbally castrate a pilot over frequency.
Kennedy Steve would have had a FIELD DAY
@@IAmAnonymyz Yes he would!
Kennedy Steve would most likely choke this tool through the airwaves. I love his banter towards tug drivers haha
@@drummaguyhixy
DT: "Kennedy Ground, Delta Tug 1"
KS: "dElTa tUg WuN kEnNeDy GrOunD"
Jet Frost Gaming - Imagine if that did happen at JFK and Kennedy Steve was on GND. Lol!
Do BA pilots have a problem with being told what to do by Irish women?
Besides the fact that there is a long history of the British thinking they are better than everyone else, multiply that by 10 fold for the way they treat the Irish
ToolforOffice thanks for labelling all of the british as the same.
Tom Rogers don’t be self righteous. You guys do the same thing with the US. It doesn’t need to be pointed out that the people I’m referring to are the ones who deserve it.
ToolforOffice I’m not being self righteous. I just don’t like being labelled something I’m not. Don’t you feel the same?
Tom Rogers not at all. I couldn’t care less what anyone labels me. I know who I am.
"We were talking to the ground crew so we didn't hear you" and so one of them was not listening on frequency like they're supposed to?
What the hell was wrong with that guy? I can't see how there was a safety issue at all - as far as I can see he was just pissed off because the shamrock got the push before him. What an idiot for holding her on frequency at such a busy time, just to make a point. I thought she handled it brilliantly.
The safety issue was clearing two planes to push back at the same time with over 300 people on board and thousands of gallons of airfuel
tjf4375 well said sir
He was English and therefore entitled.
Yea like she has like 20 planes to deal with >.< like wtf. She is doing what she can. She is only human >.> tbh at least someone told you rather is was ground crew or not. But don’t yell at the lady who can ground your flight >.
Paul Garrett sounds like instead of just worrying about yourself (because thats what pilots do), maybe you should climb out of the cockpit, and climb in the tower. Give that a shot eh 😎😎😎
Usually those things backfire on the pilot. The controller is from now on being used as an example of emotional control and focus while the pilot is being considered just plain rude and unprofessional.
Except she was wrong and got reprimended. She lied about trying to contacting the pilot she never did such thing.
Has it occurred to you that this video isn't the complete and unedited transcript of every transmission that was going on?
@@xx294 how did you know she got reprimanded? These things are shortened and not a complete picture of what happened. What happened clearly here was that we have an extremely rude pilot!
@@ebonyloveivory This is the kind of answer that doesn't make me want to reply. How was he even remotely rude please explain?
@@xx294 So don't reply, I am not forcing you to.
He was clearly testy and short with her. Being petty and nattering back and forth about what she should have done?
It is unnecessary and a waste of time.
That's 1 of the reasons why you have a pilot & a co-pilot ~
So that 1 of them can communicate with Ground Control while the other can keep their ears open for any additional communications from the Air Traffic Control Tower...
~ Captain Tool needed an attitude adjustment!!
Agreed.
Or in case of them is an idiot or is drunk, like the Delta pilot who got kicked off his fully boarded flight.
No worries, he can claim he has a "disease " and return to work probably
Or a personality transplant?
Oh so that's what that knob is for.
I lost it when Shamrock went "OH MY GOD" XD
And in that obvious Irish accent!
Me too
Yes, and he was the idiot who caused it.
"I'll file a safety report.."" dude!!! You'd be reporting yourself! LOL…
how exactly? the frequency seemed to be all blocked to me, and I couldn't hear any of the warnings he apparently missed, any timestamp you can give me?
@@karlosbricks2413 It was not the pilots fault. Another bird should've let him out first, but they failed to comply with atc instructions. It is neither the fault of the butthurt pilot nor the fault of the controller.
Could that be why ATC said "Thanks"?
I'm taking that "I'm filing a safety report" as similar to someone in a Facebook group announcing that they're disgusted with the group and leaving it.
Bye, Felicia.
@@dalethelander3781 No. Air traffic safety is actually taken seriously. Filing a safety report for something like this is actually the right thing to do, and notifying the ATC of it is a courtesy. It sounds like it was the Aer Lingus that went out of order, causing a hazard, and the ATC warnings about it to the British Airways pilots weren't heard because the frequency was overloaded. Those are all things that would need to be addressed for the sake of passenger safety.
Safety reports aren't there to blame someone, they're there to minimise the risk of accidents in aviation.
1:49 “..and I’m just too busy to continue any further conversation about this on frequency!” ATC Lady handled herself very well with the cranky British pilot. Loved the other pilot comments, “Tool!”
@ Get a life man.
Yes because it’s so professional.
Perhaps she shouldn't have kept arguing - she took plenty of time for that!!
@@Jorn41 she wasn't arguing and instead trying to get clearance or something along those lines so she could take off, either you're slow or a troll. go touch grass.
How in the world could you get mad at a voice like that? A sweet and truly professional ATC doing her best!
Reactions of other pilots on same frequency... priceless xD
Reactions of other pilots on same frequency. childish and unprofessional.
There was a time when BA pilots were known for their impeccable professionalism. Arguing on freq is just inappropriate, especially when it's so busy. Conduct a safe operation first, and then, if necessary, deal with the non-emergency, currently resolved problem when the operation is complete. Never take it personally. These guys know better.
dcs002 lol arguing about something that could've ended in a mid-air collision.
Um, the comment "You should of told us that already" sounds like arguing to me. But I agree BA crews have lost their polish and now are more tarnished than anything. You see it in the way jets are cleaned, maintained and flight crews respond on long haul even to passengers in Business or First Class. Almost like the crews don't give a bit of concern for anything they do. I heard someone refer to their planes as speedturd
TONYSTARK557 Hahaha fucking dumbass
The Flying Pineapple lul, so thaaats why everybody is mocking him for being a fking pissy, calling him "tool" on frequency ;)
dcs002--Maybe he just resents being told what to do by a female, the misogynistic Neanderthal.
The ATC's voice sounds so calming
Had a long career on the operations side. One time I was riding brakes in the cockpit of a DC-10 under tow to remote parking. Approaching the taxiway I noticed a line of 5 Southwest Airlines planes approaching. Queried the tower if I should hold short. Answer: "Negative, I want you to pull right out in front of them". Our tow rate was no better than 5 knots for one mile. I can only assume Southwest had pissed off the ground controller and he sent a message. LOL.
JUST IN CASE YOU EVER THINK OF QUESTIONING WHOS IN CHARGE HERE. HAVE FUN WAITING FOR THAT SLOW AF PLANE THATS GONNA PULL OUT RIIIIGHT IN FRONT OF YOU
@@MarzipanCat. Weird thing is, not a peep out of the crews stuck behind us.I was just a pawn in a larger game. LOL.
@@elkhunter8664 lol.
@@elkhunter8664 Not much point in saying anything after a checkmate from the tower.
Southwest piss off everyone ..
"Good Girl" Fair play to her very professional and took no BS! Great vid lad.
Thanks! The pilots reactions though are gold
+Dublin Aviation Yes, I agree. Some are upset with "pilot banter" but I tried to say it eases tension.
Taxi at PHX one afternoon with maybe 15 planes in line for takeoff.
no id: "Delta 123 come up fingers".
no reply
no id: "Hey Delta 123 the 727, come up fingers"
grd ATC: "uh, Delta 123 I think someone wants to talk to you on 123.45" (fingers)
Delta: "Be advised delta professionals do not do such"
ATC grd: "uh, whoever wants Delta, just go ahead"
TWA "Yeah thanks ground. This is TWA 123. You want to tell those Delta professionals that their forward access door is open and hitting when they brake"
ATC grd: "Delta 123 TWA ....reads it to them word for word...
no response.
ATC grd :"Delta 123, state your intentions" (laughter in background)
Delta: "um, uh. . .we would like to return to the gate"
ATC grd: Roger Delta, just pull to the side at the end and I'll get to you, and say thank you"
Delta: "Roger, we'll pull over up here" (no thank you, no id)
Someone keys their Mic and says, "Thank you TWA" Each aircraft in line repeats this in sequence with no id. Everyone's laughing.
Wish I had a copy of that tape. TWA kind of dates it though. That hellhole door was messed up too. They had to have heard it. but. ..
I really love when she said "And I'm too busy to continue any further conversation about this on frequency". Hahaha
DSLeicester Planes land and take off at Dublin everyone 75 seconds. I’m pretty sure she was actually busy. And technically it was the pilot’s fault. He should’ve been waiting for the ATC instead of radioing the ground crew. The info from the GC may have been incorrect and could’ve caused more problems or even an accident. Good things come to those who wait. He should’ve just been patient.
Jenny And Ben "TOOL" He is doing a great job...
She made no mistake you twat!
Kennedy ATC GROUND would have one word for that pilot...."ENOUGH!"
It seems as though the British Airways pilots really like Dublin ATC! Great video!
Thanks!
If it was LHR ATC what are the odds that it wouldn't have happened!
id say he would be the same to them guys aswell, hes not really representing ba well or wille walsh for that matter.
So when you tell the truth about earth being flat? And don't try pretending you didn't know
Elegant British subtlety - meseems
A single one-word, anonymous, response summed up that BA pilot exactly: "Tool!"
What does took mean?
@@makettle5340 "Tool means in this context a very stupid, dumb, person. It's a very derogatory, use of the word, in this context.
The person making this comment was a tool, if my FO/ Captain said that over the radio I'd think twice about flying with someone who thinks putting in a safety report is bitchy. It's not, it's part of the job description, and letting the other parties know is a courtesy.
@@DreamFreeFPV that BA pilot was violating protocol though, wasn't he? I mean, he tied up the frequency arguing with the ground controller after the almost, sort of, not really, "incident" with another aircraft who misunderstood the controllers instruction. The controller even, politely, had to cut him off and say that she is really far too busy to be arguing with him about who was at fault. Now, I'm not a pilot (medical disqual), but I'm something of an aviation buff, and my understanding is that the conversation should have been the pilot advising ground of the possible situation, ground confirming and explaining that the other aircraft had misunderstood her instructions, and then the BA pilot informing her he was going to file a safety report.
Instead, you get this incredibly rude, sarcastic, and, worst of all, non-aviation related "Oh so it's his fault?" comment that is, in my interpretation, completely uncalled for, and intended to do nothing more than antagonize a possibly overworked controller.
It's also telling that it's only /after/ the pilot of BAW81D hears the other pilots on frequency laughing at him that he informs ground of his intention to file a safety report. Is it within his right? Yes. Do I think he's doing it in retaliation for being embarrassed in front of the other pilots? Without a doubt. Is it a reportable incident? Maybe. I'm not familiar enough with the Irish regs to tell you, nor can we tell how close the two aircraft got. Was the pilot intentionally antagonizing and belittling the ground controller? I definitely think so, and I find his behavior to be incredibly unprofessional.
The unnamed pilot was absolutely correct, this BA pilot was being an absolutely tool. From listening to this exchange, he was using the safety reporting system to get back at a controller who he felt had embarrassed him,and by doing so was undermining the effectiveness of that reporting system.
@@DreamFreeFPV It was just unprofessional, anti-British bias that gets old and very, very petty.
Good luck with that, Captain Happy. He said that he received the same information from the ground at the same time she was trying to radio him. So if he got the information he needed, from ANY source, what foul was committed that could be considered unsafe? The only safety issue I see here is a pilot with an attitude problem distracting an already overloaded ground controller. Whenever I hear a pilot act like this with ATC, I assume it's because he lost an argument with his wife that morning...and you can see why he lost the argument.
Perfectly summed up !
He was CLEARED to push back. If the ground crew had done just that they would have crashed into the Aer Lingus passing behind them: Turns out it wasn't clear after all. That's dangerous and the controllers fault.
I'm going to file a safety report when I get home, and I'm taking my ball with me too, so there!!
And the first question BA are going to ask the pilots is why one of them wasn't listening out for ATC instructions while the other was talking to the ground staff?
It seems quite clear that other professional aviators (other pilots) took the same view as most of us listening, the controller was doing a good job. This behaviour from BA pilot seemed completely unnecessary and highly unprofessional. I may be missing something but it was clear from 30secs that they had been informed about being pushed back to 'charlie' It was very helpful to have the transcription.
They were Irish. Don't you get the Brit bashing tone here? It's ethnic, nothing to do with the actual situation where Ms.ATC made a serious error and BA pilot saved several hundred lives by going around her and checking with ground crews!
+Deirdre McNamara it might have damaged the plane somewhat but definitely not kill lots of people
@bananamanuk TBP HYMAR. Pilots and air traffic controllers are almost exclusively professionals and seek to operate safely. don't turn this incident into something that it is not. When you are pushing back an aircraft if there is a aircraft pushing back at another adjacent gate then the controller normally would advise the Cockpit crew so that they can avoid a collision. I am sure that all those other Professional Aviators [ using your own words ] would require the same consideration if they were pushing back from the gate.
controllers are very busy and handle multiple aircraft at the same time, so sometimes they may intend to do something immediately but may have to defer that action to deal with a more immediate situation. there is no bad intent here and the airline industry normally evaluates these incidents to improve safety, so its not unusual to do a report in such an incident.
@Sean O'Nilbud Great example of sexual harassment of a female who you disagree with. We are all working hard to change that dynamic and realize that those comments are inappropriate and degrading.
For me the best part is how she, because she cannot simply just ‘Ghost” them, just tells them that the conversation cannot continue.
that is pretty standard for an on frequency disagreement...
Things are still tense between the Brits and Irish.
I was scrolling through the comments looking for the first tool who would make this about Britain/Ireland - and it was you congrats. It’s not about countries - it’s about arseholes.
Not Applicable ...Mine too...always one asshole 👍
Things are still tense between the English and Irish.
Nope - wrong again - things are tense between arseholes. I can guarantee that 99.999999% of people from both countries can happily spend time drinking and watching the football together without even a hint of bad feeling.
The guy was being a dick to anyone, makes no difference that it was Irish and “Brits”(Irish too)
Just before we all hang the BA guy out to dry here (no sides taken).... Correct me if I'm wrong - ATC cleared the Speedbird to push 'point C' AFTER the Ryanair 737 passes behind and told the Stobart (Aer Lingus) to hold position. ATC then cleared the Stobart (Aer Lingus) to push to point B after the Ryanair parked then suddenly remembers to caution Stobart of the BA aircraft pushing to point C. BA then interrupts the transmission stating they have stopped the push due to the Stobart (Aer Lingus) being in the way. The ATC response is now to give way to the Stobart then continue push - not what the original clearance was. ATC also said she was trying to contact him on frequency?! We didn't hear that bit and I can only assume this sound clip was shortened? Either way ATC cocked up the original clearance, Speedbird should have been listening (if indeed she did try to contact him which there is no evidence of) and thirdly the manner in which Speedbird had a grievance was unprofessional but what about all the local pilots calling them a tool - not exactly professional either. In summary, disorganised ramp congestion which to all those who aren't local crew operating in and out of this airport will probably agree is all too familiar. Ryanair have had a few wing tip strikes here recently so there's clearly an issue at this airport. Cheers.
There is a bit missing here. BA is cleared to push after the RYR passes and the stobart is to wait until BA has pushed however after the RYR parked the BA sat on stand and didn't move....as a result the stobart was cleared to push and atc told the BA to wait however BA missed this as they were not listening on ground frequency. You can hear the stobart captain telling them to push quicker in future. The clip cuts out atc calling the BA to hold.
I hear a "trying to call you" but no actual call to BA81D stopping the push-back.
Has the "tape" been edited?
I do hear some childish & unprofessional comments by others who should know better.
It’s an Irish channel….you won’t find any admission of any failings here! Especially as it was a British plane held up.😂
Played this for former head of ATC, who had two observations. Firstly, the amount of planes she was dealing with was unusually high but she did remain very calm and professional. Secondly, there are two British Airways pilots. Both of them should not have been communicating with ground crew; one should have been on frequency to take direction from ATC. The actual safety issue is one of negligence on behalf of the BA crew, failure to adhere to comms protocol.
Erm Gray thank you for clarifying this
Aoife Molloy You're very welcome :)
So where in the recording did she warn the BA Pilot, which she later claimed to have done when called out on it?
Totally disagree pilots should be communicating to ground crew and to atc at the same time .
Calm and professional BUT missed out an important instruction to the BAW pilot. If ATC ground was that busy then maybe the controller shouldn't have pushed back so many aircraft in close proximity at once. And where was delivery/planner controller.
BA pilot admits he wasn't listening out for ground control,yet somehow blames the controller.Tool is one word for him but there are several others.
Damn, they don't get flustered at all. Oh I'll be filing a safety report. Very good sir thank you.
That's what professionals do. When someone tells me "I'm going to file a complaint about you" (or something to that effect), I always answer with "Thank you. We always look forward to learn from our mistakes. Here is the card of my captain and his number." Takes the wind right out of their sails most of the time - and if they have a genuine complaint and aren't just venting, then it is actually worth to look into it. Maybe I did something wrong and they are just bad at explaining the problem...
The pilot is telling ATC that he’ll be filing a safety report about the other pilot’s behavior. That’s why the other pilots laugh afterwards.
I like how sweet most of the pilots were reassuring her that she was doing a good job. Hopefully that made her day
I think learning to fly is the easy part and understanding every shit they talk over the radio is the hard part.
Tony Skywalker listen write down one pilot is taxing the plane while the other is communicating pilots will write the stuff down so it’s easier to repeat
BoZzie Not always the case. Usually you know what the ATC is going to say before they say it so it’s more just making that’s what’s happening. Taxing instructions can get a bit complicated but if you know the layout of the taxiways then it makes it a bit easier. But about 60-70% of the calls are just confirming what you already know and either go one of two ways. You get what your expecting or they tell you that’s not going to happen then you need to open your ears. But most good pilots can listen whilst doing other things at the same time and read back no problem.
Really once you understand some basic things, ATC conversations are pretty straightforward. It varies by governing body (I'm pretty sure the FAA doesn't require a push and start, and we don't call then stands but rather gates) but the brunt of the terminology is universal. You can learn a lot from playing FSX, and I've learned even more from watching airforceproud95 😂 those are two great resources for this kind of stuff
@@djm.6322 It is pretty standard. If you just listen to some conversations you can pick it up easily. I also fly about 20 hours a week on FSX. You can even get "real" ATC with FSX Add ons like VoxATC and ProATC. You can file VFR and IFR flight plans with these add ons and there are actual human controllers who will berate you if you don't use proper radio discipline. You can also just listen in on some of them if you want to pick up the lingo.
The ATC lady was amazingly efficient and cool. And BA pilot not worth commenting.
Mark M agreed, however, can’t help myself, BA Pilot is a dick head!
FACrazyCanuck I just spoke to him, he thinks you’re a cock
Definitely a bit embarrassed to have that pilot representing British Airways over in Dublin...
You've absolutely nothing to be embarrassed about. The attitude of one plonker is not a reflection of a good airline. I'm sure he'll get a bit of a dressing down back at base.
@@johnnythreebollocks3496 Hahah you're not being serious right now?
@Johnny Threebollocks sorry remind me, how many aircraft and souls has BA lost and how many have Aer Lingus or Ryanair? Which of the 3 airlines flies to EU regulations which allows suicidal pilots crash their plan and which 2 operate the FAA sterile cockpit and no man left alone policies, BA arent looking so 1st rate now, also the BA pilot admits to 'not listening to atc frequency because talking to ground crew', the BA pilot admits to not listening to the one radio channel they must always be listening to while in a cockpit!
Johnny Threebollocks stall the fucking ball it’s not because the BA pilot was British it’s because the BA pilot was a dick
Daniel Aviation Ireland or having a bad day at the least. Unprofessional of him to take that out on the controller on frequency.
I was listening to this from the article on breaking news earlier on!! I totally love this channel massive fan of aviation and I live 5 mins from dub airport I'm always watching them land and take off!
A sub and a like for you good sir!
Thank you so much for your kind words Amy, really nice to hear.
+Dublin Aviation no problem, it's cool to think there's someone not too far from me capturing these entertaining moments! 😊🍀🇮🇪
Haha I live like 15 mins away. I only get to hear them, unfortunately.
I live 5 mins away from Dublin airport have and of you guys been to Shannon airport ????? Lol !!!!!
+TJ Wykes I can't say I have!! I know a guy who's dad was an air traffic controller for Shannon though that's about as close as it gets haha... I do listen to it though sometimes on live atc if I can't sleep in the am, as all the transatlantic flights are passing in the wee hours 😉
Wow, all he did was add stress to that poor lady. Like she needed more
I'm involved in a very different kind of dispatch. However, the lady on ATC was amazing and doing a very demanding job. Shout out to those pilots who were being supportive. Captain Tool could do with some lessons in how to show proper respect.
Many comments here forget that this was the busiest day of the year and the ATC had 15 aircraft to deal with at once. Personally I would have found that very difficult to deal with, and even if she was at fault (which I don't think she is) credit has to be given to her for having so many different situations to manage on the go. The BA pilot should have been more understanding. He has one plane to deal with which is a difficult enough job, she had 15.
agree, dublin is one busy airport, alot busyer then manchester, stansted, luton, etc but not gatwick or heathrow
Just posted about the possibility of her being overwhelmed, but she made a serious error. She is at fault, but instead of apologizing she tried to throw it back on the BA pilot. If he had not used initiative and checked with ground staff, he and the Delta could be winging their way to Heaven. An American pilot might have read her in some pretty colorful terms, and justifiably, but BA was courteous and cool. If she apologized that would be the last of it. I wouldn't want her job, but in my experience too many Irish women in positions of authority feel licensed to be extremely rude and unprofessional and never apologize. One witch at the Malahide Library some years ago, literally erased a play that I had written for the RTE Radio Playwrighting contest, because she wanted to go to lunch! Didn't need any calories by the looks of her.
People can make mistakes, the BA pilot I'm sure would have been noble about it, but her attitude is DANGEROUS! Make a mistake, own to it and correct the fundamental situation.
+Deirdre McNamara Deirdre your just commenting because you want to criticise Irish people in general,
If that were my aim, alan scott, I'd write a book - or five! Seriously, Irish people are not all bigots like you, but there is a low esteem element that still blames Britain for Ireland's current woes, and takes any chance you can to throw bricks at the Brits - and this is one of them. Objectively speaking, ATC goofed up in a difficult situation; BA saved the day, but was understandably not happy that he and his passengers were put at risk, but was still polite, and was correct to file a report. If DA is that busy, they may need extra staff. Not my favorite airport, had horrid experiences there last touchdown. Love Shannon. Best in the world.
Love the other pilots saying “You’re doing a good job!”
Fair play She took no shit and remained professional whilst doing so! Pilots are hilarious in response the BW pilot! 😂😂
that b.a lad is an utter eejit
+Oliver McEnroe absolute fact!!
Tool! I died
He actually said fucking tool, which makes it more hilarious. they bleeped it though
Samuel W. Dakota omg
Would LOVE to have heard Speedbird talking that way to “Kennedy Steve” at JFK. Ha!! 😂
Chi Chi Or any busy ATC facility in the US.
Chi Chi oh they would get ripped apart. I’d pay to see that.
Who knows, maybe it'll happen, and tbh that would be lit
Kennedy Steve would be more commanding in his "KENNEDY GROUND TO AER LINGUS! STOP!" and "EARTH TO SPEEDBIRD 81 DELTA!! CAUTION AER LINGUS TRYING TO RAM YOU!". And he would make fun of the whole thing, and not be passive-aggressive about it. And probably welcome a safety report since this was actually a safety risk.
@DrScopeify yeah cos you yanks are so hard arent ya (:-
Tower control must be the most stressful job.
You don't say.
Approach can be even worse, believe me, as their are many different dialects which need practice to understand, Local (Tower )control can vary, accents take a while to get used to but aren't impossible)in addition the TOWER controller also has the Safety Aspects, plus Push Back traffic Plus re-fueling,Safety and some areas, even Customs & Excise. Variety is the name of the game.
To be technical, this controller was the ground controller, not the tower controller... but your point is still very valid. :)
They are underpaid for the amount of stress they endure. They don't even make 200k
Controllers [ in my humble opinion ] make very few errors, but I am sure that there is some embarrassment for Pilots to admit the occasions that a controller saved their A$$.
What do pilots use for contraception? Their personality!😂
I wonder who was reprimanded in the end? Capt. Happy for not having one of his many radios on the tower while pushing back? Talking to ramp crew is crumby reason to not hear atc calls.
I would love to read that investigation. I am obsessed with stuff like that, please forward on the link if you wouldn't mind, thanks.
Subjagator shockingly enough the guy who commented back is AbritishGuy
T Bag . What does ‘pushing back’ mean?
Catherine, pushback is exactly what it sounds like, the aircraft is pushed back from the gate or stand using a tug. They *could* use reverse thrust to back up, but this is highly dangerous, and potentially could damage the engines, so they just wait until they are away from the terminal to complete engine startup.
Glad to hear somebody taking sense. She gave unsafe instruction and the tried to cover her arse. If she was overloaded then that in itself is a separate safety issue for which the controller and supervisor must answer. However I do believe the BA pilot acted unproffesionally with his comments.
You have to be INSANE to take a flight controllers job! God Bless 'em!
seca1, amen. This ATC went full spock mode. “live long and prosper, bitch”
I honestly don't understand what is going on in this video.
Let me explain : The law states that planes in an offside position, when the runway is being landed on by another plane, may not actively approach the runway. A plane is in an offside position if any of the body parts with which it can touch the runway during any other part of the landing is in another's plane's half of the runway and closer to the other plane's landing line than both the runway and the second-to-last plane (usually, but not necessarily always, the last plane in front of the landing tower). Being in an offside position is not an offence in itself; at the moment the plane is landed by the copilot, the plane must also be "actively supervised by the pilot" in the opinion of the controller, in order for an offence not to occur.] When the offside offence occurs, the controller stops the flight and awards the takeoff to the next plane from the position of the offending plane.
The offside offence is neither a foul nor a misconduct, planes are never booked or sent off for offside. Like fouls, however, any flight that occurs after an offence has taken place but before the controller is able to stop the flight is nullified. Planes that continue such a flight may be booked based on the controller's assessment of how significant or intentional the flight was and that's basically it.
In a nutshell, the British Airways was taking his sweet time getting pushed back. Meantime another aircraft pushed back. The controller tried to tell the BA pilot to hold, but he was busy yucking it up and not listening to the radio. There are two pilots, so there is no excuse for that.
Still, not maintaining a listening watch is also a safety violation.
I agree with Deirdre
Thank you, David.
She has a fantastic voice, and her ability to stay calm with that fellow was on point.
Anyone got an e-mail address for Willie Walsh? I'd send him this. I doubt he'd be impressed with this idiot! She was brilliant, and wasn't rattled by him.
bigwilly@ba.com
Tools not going to file a safety report - I’d bet my bottom dollar on that. ATC was cool,calm professional …good job lady
Who else is still extremely confused afire watching this??
ya this was like LOST I kind of know what's happening but not really
But at least you can hear them fighting
just a stuck up pilot who didnt appreciate ATC doing her best...
I have no interest in piloting or working in a control tower, so I know nothing of this stuff. But surprisingly, it wasn't too hard to follow.
i know a fair amount about this, as I want to be a pilot and start training in about a year, but it is easier for people to understand when you have the words on the screen to read along with.
The ATC speaks so fast like a lightning, I'm amazed how those pilots remember
That girl is a real professional! No messing.
I've always thought of speedbird pilots as being the most professional and competent, but I suppose there's always one. I hope he filed his report and everything was looked into, just to show what a total rectum he was and put it on the record.
Thanks Dublin Aviation for posting this. It gave me a good giggle! He really is a tool.
Glad you enjoyed it!
+Dublin Aviation Yes, good for people to hear. Maybe they will appreciate ATC and good crews. Thanks, well done.
Thanks Mark
ATC was great.
she was very professional
well done
Aer Lingus STK96L were the ones at fault and total pricks. BA got too defensive but not extremely rude at all. On the other hand "Good Girl", "Tool!" That's just unprofessional.
The BA pilot was being stupid, the others were set to go, probably waiting.
+Grim *probably*
+Grim no proof whatsoever
Right, right, right!
If you read the below you'll see that the BA pilot was not at fault. Also, a place full of aeroplanes with the lives of hundreds of people at risk is hardly the place to be having 'fun' although I don't expect a degenerate like you to understand that.
"Basically, Speedbird was given clearance to push back after RyanAir 737 passed behind them. Ground then told Stobart 96pl ( Air Lingus) to stand by for further instruction after they had called for clearance to push. Stobart 96 pl was then informed RyanAir 737 was parking on stand 125 behind them and could then push back.
So Speedbird started to push back and and then Stobart 96 pl also started to push back. So what actually went right was that speedbirds ground crew halted the push as stobart 96 pl was creating a hazard for them.
What went wrong was that Stobarts 96pl ground crew prematurely pushed. Also Ground did not try to notify speedbird of the conflict that was going to happen. What ground did was try and inform stobart 96pl of speedbirds push.
Where the unprofessional comments started is when stobart 96pl said to speedbird they should've pushed off gate quicker. When they were clearly in the wrong.
Ground and tower make mistakes and what they will never do is admit to their mistakes. Otherwise they could face reviews and/or suspension depending on severity. Even when called out on it. Good thing that all ATC communication is recorded and the tapes can always be pulled to review. Speedbird is in the right to file his safety report.
Now I am not bashing tower as they have a difficult job and can be very busy, at times maxed. That's when mistakes will happen. Everyone just needs to be aware. Pilots also need to curb their ego, the ones that were mocking speedbird would have done the same thing if it had happened to them."
I'm really happy that nearly all of the comment posters are not pilots nor ATC...
I''m really happy that sarcasm is alive and well in Denmark/Yorkshire.
We're on UA-cam. We can confidently ascertain that almost none of the people in this comment section are trained in the aviation industry.
At least I hope as much. Otherwise I'd be concerned that people are angry at the _one pilot_ who brought up the safety hazard, and cheer for the people cluttering the frequency with unprofessional name-calling, mocking laughter and bashing of a pilot that places safety first.
@@Athaeus If he placed safety first his ass would have stayed on the frequency he was supposed to be on. HE created the problem.
@@gandalfthegrey8236 u mad bro?
@@gandalfthegrey8236 If he had stayed on frequency, he wouldn't have heard the ATC trying to contact him, because she never did.
That moment when you try to come off tough and the whole airspace lights you up
We are being invited to pillory the BA pilot here but I don't think there's enough information to justify doing that. Also one would need to be knowledgeable about aviation protocols to make an informed judgment. But of course that doesn't stop people - most of whom presumably are uninformed about such protocols - from queuing up to have a go at the pilot. Not nice.
What?! A measured and sensible comment in the UA-cam comments section? I nearly fell off my chair.
that was the most efficient argument of all time
There are two planes side by side at their gates waiting to be pushed back. She gives the BA approval to push back. She tells Stobart to "listen out", i.e. that she's gave BA approval to push right next to her. She then gives approval to Stobart to push and cautions them that the BA is also pushing out. Everyone on freq understands the situation, and it's not particularly dangerous. One of the planes has to push out, then the other can. It's seems ground expected the BA to push sooner, and tried to get Stobart to wait, but the BA was too slow and Stobart pushed first so he had to wait. That's what the "get off the stand quicker" comment was about. BA kinda screwed up the situation by not pushing quicker and then hassled ground about it. That being said, ground could have made it much more clear to Stobart that they had to wait for the BA to push.
Yes, but you're wrong. There was an Aer Lingus plane passing behind the BA. If the ground crew hadn't stopped pushing the BA two planes loaded with jet fuel and 300+ passengers would have collided.
The BA pilots were CLEARED to push back. They did and was startled at the Aer Lingus suddenly passing behind them. It turned out it wasn't clear after all and that is the controllers fault. The accident was avoided but it shouldn't depend on luck, that's not how aviation safety works.
@@ThorsteinKlingenbergPL Yeah ... no. It was a Stobart Air STOBART96PL ATR, probably liveried as Aer Lingus Regional which was cleared to push at 0:53 with the warning "caution there's a British Airways on your left will be pushing back also to Charlie."
When she gave the BA clearance to push it was clear to push. He just took his time. I think you can fault her for not giving clear instructions to Stobart. Her warning is ambiguous. If she wanted Stobart to wait for the BA (which is what she says at 1:37), she should have said so directly not just implied it. And I guess technically she should have repeated the warning to the BA pilot, but practically he should have been monitoring the freq and understood the situation like everyone else did.
@@Sphere723 They didn't have to, they were given clearance and could push back at their leisure. Also, the ground crew pushes them back, so if they were slow it wasn't necessarily the pilots fault. As the Stobart/Aer Lingus was second in line and told to wait, they should have stopped, and asked the ground controller to get priority before passing. Then she could have asked the BA what the delay was and possibly told them to hold while the ATR passed behind them. She showed poor situational awareness and her unsafe actions were dangerous. The pilots were totally right in pointing that out. As for the other "professionals" on the frequency... They made themselves look like the biggest tool on the field.
The biggest air-crash in history was caused by an impatient arrogant captain. The Grace of God is in Courtesy. Well done ATC a credit to Irish professionalism and skill.
what one was that buddy ?
+HOOF HARTED HD Tenerife
ctyerkes really I must look it up thanks buddy
Thank you William I could not remember the details but had a vague recollection. It shows how awful arrogance can be when it drives someone in control of an aircraft to act impulsively.
One thing that sure is that Irish pilots(or pilots trained in Ireland) do not fear landing in crosswinds, unless they are gust of over 40+ knots, they stay calm and put the plane down like as if there was no wind,
I'm going to begin my pilot training in Dublin(or Cork) after I finish my secondary school, currently in 5th year.. A little bit more
Aw that's cute when the pilots are like "good girl!"
81D was clearly not listening...and talking to ground crew is not an acceptable excuse as there are two pilots on the flight deck.
What message from ATC on this tape didn't 81D listen to? Do you hear anything in this video warning the BA crew that there is an Aer Lingus passing behind and pushing back wasn't clear at all, it was down right dangerous.
@@ThorsteinKlingenberg She expected 81D to have been monitoring the freq and heard her warning to Stobart and understood the situation. The other pilots on freq clearly did. But yeah, she didn't repeat the warning to 81D and she didn't really give clear instructions. Just a kinda work it out among yourselves. Which isn't a great practice for a Ground Controller.
@@Sphere723 It's a great practice to create an accident. The 81D was given clearance, first, and with no limitations. They had no expectations of anything being in their way.
As we say in Australia, "There's only one thing you can't tell a Pom ... anything."
the BA pilot was a tool for his reaction, but insulting 70 million people because of his actions is just strange. If I showed you a video of another nation's pilots acting like that, would you condemn them all?
I work in aviation and the reputation Australian ATC and pilots have is not something I will share on this platform. I'm a far too polite pom, as you would insultingly call me.
"Tool"
Whoever that was, legend.
Even the EI pilot who was supposed to give way to BA (I'm sure a simple case of human error as a result of the busiest day of the year) said "good girl". The BA pilot just didn't like his pride dented. He _had_ to make sure she knew it was "her fault" and how dare she answer him back with logic or fact. She wasn't taking any shit, her professionalism never wavered. You go girl!
Way to work those identity pronouns!
I, for one, demand to know the flight attendants' opinion on the matter. As well as the guy who cleans the shitters in the terminal building. Otherwise it's just a bunch of rich white people talking and I instinctively tune that out, yo.
That was actually quite lovely to hear ... all the subsequent pilots gently letting her know she was *not* in the wrong!
The ground controller was doing a great job, keeping her cool. Wondering how nobody loses control and starts using bad language on the air 🤣
That BA pilot needs to get a grip, the controller is pushed to her limit handling all aircraft. Glad to hear how many pilots appreciated her work on that day. An BA wonder why their passenger numbers have dropped over the years
The lady has a great and professional attitude dealing with one of the most stressful jobs in the world. Well done!
I don't know if she actually did try to contact him - would've been nice to be included in the video if she did. However, the pilot should really not block the frequency for this nonsense.
After informing the controller of the situation, he should just shut up and file the safety report if he feels so inclined. By blocking the frequency, he's just causing unnecessary delays and, ironically, could make the controller unable to inform other pilots of potential safety hazards in time...
with 15 aircraft on her frequency she wouldn't have time and by the time she did she would know its not worth it.
If this was at JFK he’d still be on the apron
They would of came out of the tower and punched the pilot in the face lmao.
There's only one rude person on that call, and it is the air traffic controller. The BA pilot just pointed out the confusion with no anger in his voice at all.
He says calmly "you should have told us that before really"
Her response was "I was trying to call you, you weren't listening out..."
How does she know he "wasn't listening"? That is what is rude and annoys the BA pilot. Her tone is also of annoyance rather than calmness, and it is this comment which turns this sour.
Wrong Dr Meat.
Look at the Airport Charts, Airport Specific 1.6. Taxi Procedures:
"ATC may require ACFT to manoeuvre in close proximity to other ACFT. Avoidance
of other ACFT is the responsibility of flight crew involved. If doubt exists as to
whether an ACFT can be passed safely, flight crew should STOP, advise ATC, and
request alternative instructions if available."
That's the rules BA skipped when he should have read.
Ground controllers have one job to ensure the aircraft on the ground don't crash into one another. Most aircraft don't have rearview mirrors At the stand the pilot is relying on the controller to ensure nothing is behind him. Clearly he was told he could push back and only the workers around the aircraft stopped a potential collision. This would be classed as a near miss and it was the pilots duty to report it and he would have faced disciplinary action had he failed to do so. He sounded quite composed considering.
Ha! Begone with your facts, they'll do you no good in this comments section; I'm afraid to say it's awash with latent racism and second-guessing.
I'm not claiming to be an expert but from what I heard she was trying to contact and inform him about it and he was just on a different frequency when he should have been listening for her but like I said I'm not an expert so maybe she was in the wrong
Thank you, Robert Baker!
So the "assumption" is that for some reason we don't know about, he changed frequency for no apparent reason, then changed back to talk to ATC again all in a few seconds? And that has to be true because it is the only way ATC remains blameless?
If ATC told him to back out into "traffic" then ATC was at fault before anything else happened, and it has to be reported. Everything after that is just noise.
He could have been talking to the ground crew.
Damn, I'm only 50 seconds in, and she is ALL BUSINESS.
I have watched this video so many times..I just love the professionalism of the controller..as sharp as a razor of course... great backing up from the other pilots...
"That's CAPTAIN Tool, if you please"
What a gowl. No way I'd be able to do her job at all.
The laughs by the pilots at 2:52 xD xD