No mountain climbing. No flying in planes just to fly in planes for fun over water or mountainous terrain. No canyon hiking. No driving a vehicle not properly equipped for traffic in the “Outback”. No nothing.
Regular scuba diving to max 20 meters is fairly safe. Millions, including myself, do so every years with almost no serious accidents. And I can strongly recommend it, it's an experience like no other.
But then you will never experience the insane rush you get from swimming in the cold, dark water with the strong possibility of death. How could you possibly pass that up!?
They dare the devil. They get dead. It comes and goes with the territory. If I die doing something stupid(likely inevitable), I’m going to haunt anybody who doesn’t refer to me as a dumbass.
@@loganmeline9233eh, more like he was stubborn in his attempt to retrieve the body, and declining brain functioning due to the environment basically made him stick with the effort so long, he died. If he left the body, he probably would be alive today
@@Jabarri74 Most people think the only reason anyone does anything is for money. In 1988, a friend of my brother saw me with my professional camera gear hanging on my neck and both shoulders, and assumed I was making a fortune shooting things. I said no, not yet, I did it cos I considered it to be important work. She got this weird look and said "Well, if you don't get paid for it, why do you do it?" "Well, I doubt if you're getting paid to be a snotty b!tch to me right now, but you're doing that." She bitched to my brother, he backed me up, and she left.
Some people might say it's boring but everytime I hear stories like this I'm always grateful that I have the "I'll stay here and watch the bags, just in case, because I don't want to die a horrible painful lonely death" personality type.
He also has as a knack for respectfully telling the story to those of us who've never heard of this tragedy. What a sad outcome. My heart breaks for Dion and David. David tried his best! 💔
*This is why it's so stupid to be "the hero nobody wanted or asked for".* Anybody who died cave diving would rather their remains rest in place, as a precaution to other divers. Very few are selfish enough to want their remains extracted, and most of their families don't want people to risk their lives to extract the remains. These are simply remains - they are NOT the PERSON who perished - they are the REMAINS of the person who perished. The remains are absolutely useless to the person who perished, and they're absolutely useless to their family as well. All they are is a SYMBOL of the person who once was. They have zero useful value to that person or anyone else. *This airline pilot wasn't engaging on this dive for altruistic reasons* - *he did it for his own personal glory.* He lost that battle, which proves not only my point, but the point that thousands of other cave divers have tried to press to the public. This would be like going to the moon solely to bring back the remains of someone who perished trying to journey there.. and only because you think it's impressive to journey to the moon to bring back someone else's remains. *The people who perished at the bottom of cave dives would rather their bodies be left there as a cautionary tale to those who come next. The last thing they'd want is their remains to be dragged out of there in pieces just so others risking their lives wouldn't have to see them.* *Just think of Mt Everest, and how many of those climbers wanted their remains left there instead of others risking their lives for either glory or profit simply to retrieve their remains.*
@@SkaatjeI think the stories where innocent people were going about their lives only to die horribly because someone was cutting corners or talking shortcuts are a lot sadder. These were two adults who knew the risks and decided to accept them.
Edgy or not, he is right. Do you honestly think the other topics of this channel, where ordinary people, young and old die in the dozens during there everyday life is not sadder than two people risking their life willfullly and paying the price?
I have been fascinated by this story for years. Dave was wearing a helmet cam that documented everything down there on this fateful dive. There’s a heartbreaking video of Don Shirley watching the footage and giving commentary on what went wrong. There's quite a few extensive articles written about the incident, as well as a recent documentary called Dave's Not Coming Back, released in 2020. Thank you for covering this story FH!
Ah, I was wondering how they knew what happened with David at the bottom-if it was camera related or just guesswork-thanks for the info! Still truly sad though :(
I too have been interested in this sad story for years. I'm glad you mentioned this. It's hard to tell in the video what is happening, but it's still really impactful.
Fellow South African here. I knew of it because as another comment said, it's probably the most covered diving accident on UA-cam. There's even camera footage of it. But since you found it fascinating, consider looking up the channels that specifically cover cave diving accidents. It's really interesting.
Go and read "Raising the Dead" by Tim Zimmerman. It's an incredible breakdown of every moment of the preparation and recovery made from interviews with eyewitnesses and divers.
Unfortunately there are a lot of diving accidents and many videos. This is one of the saddest. There’s also a new documentary on Netflix about free diving. I get the same anxiety thinking about free diving as I do cave diving. Both sports I’ll never understand bc the thought scares me so much.
If I dive stupidly and end up dying, PLEASE leave my body where it is. I hate how many stories are about rescuers also losing their lives while trying to find someone or even just retrieving a corpse. Fuckin' leave it and roll a boulder over it to seal the entrance. The solidarity of taking on a risk that killed someone is admirable but when you're already hurt yourself and your family through irresponsibility the last thing you want is the death of another on your karma.
Don't seal the entrance. :/ Why should others be prevented from exploring the same area you did? Rather than sealing the entrance, put a sign of 'Here I rest, please do not disturb my remains'. Most divers will honor that.
@@pyro226 i didn't mentally take in the "seal it" part. I have a very specific DNR order and I do stand by putting up a sign if you do NOT want a rescue attempted. I do dry caving and I put a piece of paper on my dash that says if I am missing, do NOT try to rescue my body and I park as close to the cave as I can.
I share the feeling, but the thing is people like us would never go down there in the first place. Those who partake in such activities are more willing to take risks. If they'll risk their lives just to set a depth record, it's not too far fetched that they'll risk it to recover the remains of a fellow diver.
I can’t imagine the horror of the first man’s family being up on the surface and hearing someone else died and another got injured retrieving his body. Dion’s body should’ve been left down there I’m sorry.
The body was already rising, I would've just let it float to the top. Maybe not great for the family to suddenly see, but it would've spared one more life. I wouldn't beret the person risking their life for not bringing up the body "properly", because he still had done something no one else had and I would still be grateful if I were the family. Such a shame that another person died, but at least both bodies were recovered.
I think it's a sort of code of conduct for divers. "If I were to die down here, I'd want someone to help me out." Do as you wish done to yourself, kind of thing. As for letting the body rise, yes, that would have been a better solution than trying to stick the body in the body bag. But David was suffering from nitrogen narcosis and COULD NOT think clearly. Better decisions could have been made but he was intellectually handicapped because of his situation. Shame.
It's no longer you down there that needs helped out tho, it's only your corpse. So David's death was a tragic unnecessary situation to add to the mix.@@aethelfrithofbernica
@@aethelfrithofbernica They need to adapt the mentality of Everest climbers. They're told in no uncertain terms that after a certain height it becomes too dangerous to attempt rescues/body recoveries before they begin the climb.
Props to Dave for attempting to have Deion’s body laid to rest, only to be laid to rest himself. Very tragic, but he tried. I hope both families are doing okay today. For the most part they had closure for their loved ones 🙏 💐
His name appears to be spelled “deon” at least according to Wikipedia “Deon Dreyer (7 August 1974 - 17 December 1994) was a South African recreational scuba diver who died in Bushman's Hole in South Africa. Cave diver David Shaw died more than 10 years later while attempting to retrieve Dreyer's body”
@@princeofcupspoc9073 I agree, while on the surface his intention may seem good. Risking his life, and the trauma it would and probably did bring to his family and children for a strangers remains in my opinion is actually incredibly selfish and irresponsible. If you want to be that guy. Don't have a family that you leave behind, shattered and broken because you wanted to save a corpse. The living should (almost*) ALWAYS be prioritized over the dead. That was not done here, and the true victims are the families of these two men. People do this more often than you think. A friend of mine had a family and children. He decided one day to ride his bicycle without a helmet. He fell off, his his head, and it completely changed his personality, forcing his wife and children to basically distance themselves from him. In my opinion, not wearing a helmet, was an stupid, and irresponsible thing to do, considering he had a family with children to look after. Such a simple mistake can lead to devastating consequences and cause so much trauma for other people, so while I understand there is thrill in danger, putting thrill an danger above family and responsibility is in my opinion, not something hat we should celebrate, nor encourage.
This guy david was foolish and dumb I don't feel sorry for him. Just leave the body of the guy that died their in 1994 that's his tomb that's where he died at. Now the family of the young man who died in 1994 now they feel even more guilty because this other guy died trying to retrieve their family members body when nobody asked him too.
Many will disagree but the cause of Shaws death was selfishness. I'm sure part of the reason he attempted this retrieval was to provide closure to the family, but nothing we do in this life is done out of pure selflessness.
You did a great job of explaining the science of diving and decompression sickness. The only thing I would add is that technical divers going beyond on the recreational depths typically use a gas mixture called “Trimix,” which mitigates the effects of nitrogen narcosis by replacing some of the nitrogen with helium. Additionally, oxygen at normal levels (21%) only has a maximum operating depth of about 185 feet, after that it can become toxic and cause seizures. Gas mixtures with lower oxygen levels are utilized beyond these depths. A diver on normal tanks will have to switch to a different tank with the proper mixture, but a rebreather such as the one Shaw had will mix the gas to the proper ratios within the loop. Shaw perished because he overexerted himself and became hypoxic due to the buildup of his own CO2, which is a hazard of using rebreathers. Breathing becomes more difficult in general at extreme depths like that due to ambient pressure.
Trimix is also used when MIG welding stainless steel. Probably wouldn't want to use that in a scuba tank though since it's argon, helium and carbon dioxide. 😅
I was going to say the same thing. Shaw was using an advanced trimix closed-circuit rebreather that would automatically switch between several mixes of trimix, nitrox, and pure oxygen (for shallow decompression) based on his depth, selected to keep the partial pressure of oxygen at safe levels and to mitigate the effects of nitrogen narcosis.
@@deprofundis3293 Scuba diving is a surprisingly physical sport. The physiological stresses your body endures while under pressure (both physical and mental) can really wipe you out. There have been times I've come up from what I thought was a fairly relaxing dive and barely been able to stand up, and I don't go anywhere near the depths that Shaw was at. The kind of extreme deep diving that Dave Shaw enjoyed walks the line of what is survivable and what is lethal. Shaw had every stage of that 10 hour dive planned down to the second. If he had followed the plan exactly, he should have been safe (no guarantees), but any deviation, no matter how small, has serious consequences. When he had trouble recovering Dreyer's body, he deviated from his plan. His stress levels increased too high, his breathing became too rapid, he was physically exerting himself too much, and he stayed at the max depth a few minutes longer than he had planned to, and those little deviations added up to create a fatal situation. For a detailed commentary of what happened to Shaw second by second: ua-cam.com/video/PCwad5xKoyA/v-deo.html
I'd like to think after such a valiant effort, Dion and Dave could meet on the other side and laugh about the irony over a heavenly beer or something. My heart goes out to both families and the friends of these people. RIP, guys☹️
Could you imagine being the family though, I’d feel so guilty knowing the attempts to gather the remains of my son cost someone else their life in almost the exact same fashion…
@@sallyschildcare The interview I've seen with Deon's father said that the father would have been happy for Deon to stay there, but the mother wanted to recover the body for a proper burial, so the father agreed and they jointly gave permission for Dave to make the dive.
"Dave Not Coming Back," the very poignant line from Don Shirley's note to the support team, is also the name of a documentary about David Shaw and his team's attempt to retrieve Dion Dreyer's body. It's very intense at times, but I would strongly recommend giving it a watch.
A tragic outcome. If my family member met his end in similar circumstances, I'd prefer they be left where they lay, rather than risk more lives to retrieve. RIP. Thankyou FH, another thoughtful, well researched and presented episode.
Especially since they put a plaque nearby as a memorial. It's sad that his body will never be recovered, but his memory was honored this way, and like you said it's not worth risking other lives.
Me too. It would be a testament as to how dangerous the site is and a reminder that nature does not care about us as individuals. You have to be careful with it and sometimes things will go wrong even when you do everything right.
No kidding. There are few things as terrifying as becoming disoriented and trapped underwater. Hopefully the effects of nitrogen narcosis spared David that terror in his final moments.
Truly tragic. Had David Shaw let the body float toward the surface, it wouldn't have made it all the way, but could have been safely retrieved. He was very considerate of the next of kin but consideration isn't worth your own death and he realized that far too late.
I understood that Dion’s parents had pleaded with divers, David in particular, to retrieve their son’s body. Whether David felt obligated to make the perilous attempt because of this, or if he would have done it without being pressured by Dion’s parents, I don’t know.
I would never want anyone to put their own lives at risk to bring back a dead body of anyone in my family, or myself, it is not worth it. If you know there is no possible way of finding anyone alive, leave them where they are.
I do recall hearing in another video that the parents had begged anyone to find their son for a long while and were the ones to pay for the ROV early on the look for it. I don't know if David was ever brought up specifically, though, and iirc he found the body by happenstance and let the parents know of his own accord before getting ready to retrieve it.
Where did you get the info that they pleaded with him? I’ve never heard this detail in the couple videos/articles I’ve seen, and judging by the way they purposely arrived late to the dive to avoid pressure on David, its hard to believe they would have pushed him much. I think David would have wanted to do it either way - the cave diving community seems to be very tight-knit and Dion’s death had a real impact, especially since his body was unrecovered. And Dave was a very daring, very skilled guy.
Its a morbid thought but I can't help but think Davids determination to get the body in the bag was in part so the boys decomposed body didn't pop to the surface in plain view of his parents looking on at the surface. Rip.
I forgot what channel this was at first because I was rooting for David. I bet the family is so grateful for David at least for trying to get him out. RIP 🕊️
I didn’t hear about his attempted body retrieval until this video. I had no idea someone else died due to just trying to do a good deed. RIP David and Dion
There is a whole documentary about this called ‘Dave Not Coming Back’, that’s how I first heard about this. It’s so heartbreak! David lost his life to bring peace to a grieving family, what an incredible man ❤ Rest in peace to both Deon and David 🪽
Imo the worst part of diving is the need to sit at different depths for several hours decompressing before being able to surface. If someone you're diving with is killed, you still have to silently sit for several hours afterwards in the dark, underwater, unable to leave.
I have watched / read / listened to numerous stories where the need for decompression is mentioned, but none have explained it in as clear and concise a way as you have done in this video. Great job. 👌
Thank you for making a video out of this incident. I had first learnt about it in Qxir's Last Moments series. I love that both channels are very respectful with the material, and that everytime two channels I watch cover the same topic, they describe different details that help see the bigger picture (like you going in depth about the sicknesses and symptoms, and Qxir talking about the rescuer's contact with the family and how they felt upon his death). Happens too sometimes with your channel and Dark Records. If only more channels respected the deceased and didn't exaggerate the material like it was a horror film...
That's what I was thinking; it sounded like he was messing with those silk body bags way longer than needed. I would've stopped stopped after a minute or so.
@@nomadpurple6154Apparently the body was buoyant though, so when dave freed it from the silt he couldn't control it and it got tangled up in his lines.
@@axeltank06 Unfortunately nitrogen narcosis takes away your ability to think clearly, and divers often do foolish things like remove their mouthpieces or gear because they aren't able to use logic. The smart thing to do would've been to leave the body alone, but Dave was incapable of making that decision. He could only think of the plan that had already been laid out and was unable to realize the passing time or the danger to himself. It's shocking to me that they didn't have a second person down there with him who had the mission of getting them both up in case of an emergency.
None of these channels that cover this tragedy mention the movie Dave Not Coming Back. It’s heartbreaking watching Dave before the dive, knowing what will happen. And watching the actual “recovery” attempt thru his camera lens is horrible.
I love the water, and have nothing but the upmost respect for those who push themselves to such limits... Can't say I see myself ever wanting to try cave diving, but the idea of seeing parts of the earth that a handful of people ever get to see in their lifetime is indeed very intriguing. It's a shame that accidents happen when they do.
I hesitate to call them accidents. I would call them “inevitability’s”. With so many things that can go wrong, the immense focus required to perform these tasks, and the stress put on the body, there will certainly be casualties. Even the most skilled and experienced divers can and do, meet their ends in caves like these. Peace to the families of those who have been lost. 🙏
I've heard and looked up so much about this story in the past (along with the Nutty Putty cave story) They are both so heartbreakingly tragic I generally avoid them now. You've done a great job at this though FH. I don't complain to channels for still covering it because I realize there are others that are hearing it for the first time.
This is an extra eerie one because there’s video of Dave’s final dive. You see him getting disoriented and panicking then the last thing you see is Deons face before he passes out. Then the details of what Don went through on his way to the surface were brutal. Was spinning out of control and throwing up in his mask. It’s a miracle he made it out.
If I ever go cave diving (I won't) and I die down there (I definitely would), the last thing I'd want is for anyone else to risk their lives to drag up my waterlogged meat. Just let it stay there. A sunken cave is as good a grave as anywhere else.
On a tangential note, it's curious that so-called free divers, ie. those who do not use any breathing equipment, can dive to incredible depths (even over 100 meters; obviously they use a winch mechanism that pulls them down at great speed) and come right up immediately without any ill effect, the entire dive only taking a minute, two at most. (This is because since they only have a lungful of air, gotten at the surface, there's no extra nitrogen to get into the bloodstream, and thus they don't suffer from any related ill effects of it.)
You can watch David’s GoPro footage from his dive leading up to his death. It’s scary, as you can see how easily one can get confused & disoriented down there. May he RIP.
There's a reason cave diving is a specialty course for experienced divers only, and even then, it's not for all divers. A good buddy of mine has a picture of himself pushing his tanks along in front of him because the cave is too narrow for him to wear them normally. Mind you, my buddy is a combat diver for the armed forces, is certified to teach whatever specialty exists for diving, runs his own commercial diving business as well as an equipment shop, and is occasionally turned to by the fire and police departments for water recovery and training... Sorry, I'm rambling again, but there's one thing they teach you day one of the introduction course and it's this: KNOW YOUR LIMITS!!! Very few deaths are actually equipment related. I'm told that the most common cause of death while diving is actually a heart attack or some form of cardiac emergency.
@@Cookiofshadows2 Oh, I agree. I’ve watched many cave diving videos where guys didn’t know their limits, & that’s what happened here. Technically, there was an equipment/gear malfunction from the body bag & the rope getting twisted with the body. David realized it was a serious mistake & he should’ve aborted the mission & left the body. But he thought he could do it & wanted to fulfill his promise & pushed himself too far, costing him his life. I imagine the adrenaline of narrowly beating death feels euphoric to some of these guys. Unfortunately, it can get the best of them.
@cfjruth sad but completely and utterly preventable! Why these people feel the need to perform such dangerous acts with little to no reward is beyind logic in my opinion and although I feel terrible for the families they leave behind I find it hard to have sympathy for them
Such a sad story. _“greater love hath no man than that he lays down his life for a friend”_ but surely… *even greater is the love when it is for a stranger who has already gone.*
I remember watching qxir cover the story and have the footage of Dave trying to get the body. Crazy how the camera Dave was using to record the mission ultimately is what helped cause his death with things getting tangled.
I dive frequently and I love it; but will never, ever go cave diving. I also get uneasy wreck diving if I cannot see an immediate exit. The thought of getting trapped underwater or being beyond reach is terrifying.
I've heard explanations of the bends and nitrogen narcosis before and understood them in general terms, but I think yours was the best description I've ever heard and made it so much more understandable.
Just watched the documentary his friends made before, during and after the incident (called "Dave Not Coming Back") which is super sad and super interesting at the same time.
You did an excellent job explaining the role of pressure and nitrogen to the non expert. I’ve been diving for a long time and I have scarcely heard as succinct an explanation.
I imagine not a popular opinion but if someone died in an inaccessible cave what's the point of dragging the remains out just to bury them again? Especially when the people engaged in recovering the remains might also suffer a similar fate. The last thing I would want is for someone to risk their life to recover my remains. Very sad.
so david went from flying in areas of decreased pressure(yes i do know planes do hold a constant air pressure while flying) to diving into increased pressure interesting. also yeah going to the surface and then bagging the body would have been smarter but with how long david was down there and the effects of nitrogen poisoning taking affect, he wasn't thinking straight. such a sad story
The oxygen you breathe when doing a dive at these depths is more helium than oxygen in an attempt to stop bends. . Also don broke the rules of the dive and went down to help David but after spending longer than he was meant too at the bottom he knew that even if he got David back there wouldn't be enough oxygen tanks for both of them waiting on the line and they would most likely die before more could get to them.. The full documentary is on UA-cam and is really worth a watch. That being said if you don't have time to watch nearly 2 hours this us and amazing alternative. Love your content
*Just some corrections and comments to the background:* 1. It's the surrounding pressure that determines the pressure of the air or gas mixture you breath. It's impossible to breath air at pressures lower than that of the surrounding water mass. I.e. you don't do anything to prevent your lungs from collapsing, apart from breathing normally. 2. Gases will dissolve into the blood at just a few meters depth. The higher the pressure the more nitrogen will dissolve in the blood. If you ascend slowly, the nitrogen will have time to leave the blood and be exhaled before causing problems, if you ascend rapidly, bubbles will form. You can compare it with opening a bottle of soda, when you open the lid and release the pressure, the drink will fizz and lots of little bubbles will form. 3. Decompression sickness (DCS), or the bends, has a wide range of symptoms, depending on where the bubbles end up. The illness is divided into two types: DCS Type 1, which is less severe but can still cause death or permanent damage if not treated, and DCS Type 2, which is life threatening. It's common for bubbles to congregate in joints, thus joint pain being the most common symptom of DCS Type 1. For DCS Type 2, the most common symptom is unconsciousness. If you have had DCS Type 1 you are more likely to get DCS again in the future. DCS is very hard to distinguish from lungexpansion injuries, another serious illness that can occur when diving, where the decreasing pressure cause the air in the lungs to expand and tear the lung tissue. DCS and lung expansion injuries are together called decompression illnesses (DCI) and first aid for both are to administer pure oxygen. Oxygen will do nothing for lungexpansion injuries but it at least won't hurt, in DCS oxygen will help air out the nitrogen. 4. To lower the risks of getting DCI, other gas mixes than air is used. In recreational diving. the air can be enriched with oxygen, up to 40% of the gas can be oxygen. On the dive computer at 3:41 you can see that the diver is using enriched air as the oxygen level is set at 32%. Oxygen is not an uncomplicated gas as it can irritate the lungs and cause oxygen poisoning under pressure. Technical divers (such as the cave divers in the video) often opt for something called trimix, where helium is added to lower the concentrations of both nitrogen and oxygen. To air out residual nitrogen left in the blood, technical divers will make several decompression stops to allow the nitrogen time to escape. The last stop they will make is normally at a depth of about 6 meters where they breath pure oxygen before ascending to the surface. 5. It's not only nitrogen that causes narcosis, oxygen also cause narcosis. I experience gas narcosis as extreme anxiety and paranoia, thus I avoid dives at depths greater than 25 meters.
I will never understand how so many people enjoy risking their lives to explore the watery depths... rest in peace to all those adventurers who didn't get to return home.
@@Cookiofshadows2 I have an adventurous spirit, so I *understand* wanting to do everything with your time. But this and caving, I would not attempt. So many fatalities 💔
I feel like so often the stories told on this channel are rooted in negligence and/or greed, but it’s so much more somber when it’s caused directly by a painfully noble deed.
I never heard of this place, or this incident.Thank you for another interesting, if tragic, bit of history. I look forward to "tuning in" on Tuesday mornings, wondering what disaster you'll cover next.
This is sooo devastating I cannot believe the effort and bravery of David. So selfless. He really must've felt the pressure to retrieve the body after prior attemps(s). I'm glad they can be put to rest. So claustrophobic the story telling alone. I don't go 8n a swimming pool I just dip my toes in the sea or pool. I just can't get my head around the dangers and risks of cave exploration. But each to their own.
There’s a documentary about this dive called Dave Not Coming Back that shows the entire process of preparing for the retrieval of Dions body and the aftermath of the dive
I’ve heard of this tragedy but not through a documentary. I was browsing UA-cam and came across a prog rock instrumental album whose songs are inspired by tragic endeavours, including this and the Challenger tragedy. It was beautiful. I’ll link it here if I find it again. I love your documentaries and I’d love to see you cover the story of Finnair Flight 405, a domestic flight between Oulu and Helsinki that was hijacked in 1978. The hijacked route included going back and forth between the two cities and even a trip to Amsterdam.
I’ve heard this story told many times, but this is the first time I’ve heard that their bodies floated to the surface and were able to be recovered. Idk if I’ve heard that before and just never paid attention to that detail, or if this is the first time I’m actually hearing that bit of information. As far as I can remember, I’ve always come away from hearing this story with the idea that both of their bodies were still down there at the bottom and that it had been determined that it was too dangerous to attempt another recovery for either of them. That said, learning that they were recovered, returned to their families, and laid to rest is nice to hear. I hope that their families found some peace in that.
There is a documentary film about it called Dave Not Coming Back and it's absolutely gripping, and completely heart breaking, and done tastefully in a way that honoured Dave, I was nearly in tears even knowing full well how things turned out (obviously, the clue is in the name). Highly moving, and highly recommended. It is so awful that even the support divers are all on borrowed time, if they cross the threshold then they only risk adding to statistics and they simply cannot go back down to help.
My father was a pilot for Cathay Pacific as well, and had a passing acquaintance with Mr. Shaw. He was not surprised when he learned of the manner of his death.
So sad! I do not understand why anyone would want to be in a cave underwater. Or why David kept trying to put the body in the body bag when he could have let it float & guided it up without the bag.
It’s not the nitrogen bubbles which are most problematic on these deep dives, but rather the helium bubbles from the trimix we breathe. As a deep cave diver myself, we sometimes breathe a mixture of 8% oxygen, 80% helium, and 12% nitrogen to conduct very deep dives. It’s tough to balance the nitrogen narcosis you get with more nitrogen against the greater chance of HPNS (high pressure nervous syndrome) or decompression sickness when you have more helium in your mix. The helium molecules are much smaller and can work their way into joints and nerves causing more severe decompression sickness compared to normal air or nitrox. There is also the factor of gas density and work-of-breathing, it’s better to have more helium in your mix with a rebreather since it’s a far less dense gas and reduces the work-of-breathing at greater depths. Oxygen and nitrogen are much more dense and become very hard to breathe at extreme depths, like trying to breathe through a thin coffee-stirring type of straw.
I'm so grateful for the explorers of the world who travel deep in the oceans and high above to space. I'm also really happy that those things terrify me and that the simplest things...like gardening or painting give me excitement. I have never felt the need for daring adventure but I really appreciate those people who love it! The rest of us get to see amazing pictures and videos thanks to them!
Sad, but when i think of all the people who are dying of cancer or innocent victims of accidents, shootings etc., my sympathy for these sports risk takers is small.
Kind of nice to know that ultimately he died doing something he loved and he completed his mission of reuniting the family… despite dying in a horrible and terrifying way I guess.
Ive heard this one told before but the amount of embellishments added made it so uncomfortable that I couldn't finish. So thanks for being so straightforward and respectful
I can only hope that this guy tried to get the body in the bag due to respect for the family and not wanting them to see a possibly severely decomposed body float to the surface. The only other options could be stubbornness, arrogance, or pride in doing it his way, which seems absurd considering the effort that went into this. Or maybe he just wasn't all that smart. Yes, once the body was free he should try to get it in the bag at first, but he should have given up if it was really that much of a struggle. He should have known the consequences before narcosis kicked in. Best case, the body floats up so slow that he can manage to beat it to the surface (doubtful since he has to wait to avoid the bends). Maybe it gets stuck somewhere higher up. Worst case, the body floats and the family sees it, but at least the mission is accomplished without sacrifice. As much respect as I have for the man's efforts, I hope this story serves as a reminder to everyone to always take the safer route where possible.
Caving=nope.
Diving=nope.
Cave diving= OH HELL NO.
Lighting myself on fire and jumping off a bridge? Better odds.
No mountain climbing. No flying in planes just to fly in planes for fun over water or mountainous terrain. No canyon hiking. No driving a vehicle not properly equipped for traffic in the “Outback”. No nothing.
@jen-a-purr Self preservation rules!
Nothing wrong with scuba diving as long as you don’t push yourself beyond your limits.
Regular scuba diving to max 20 meters is fairly safe. Millions, including myself, do so every years with almost no serious accidents. And I can strongly recommend it, it's an experience like no other.
Thanks for maintaining my desire for cave exploration at a consistent ZERO. Much appreciated!
If I was offered a billion dollars to enter a cave, I will drain and remodel it to make it OSHA compliant before entering.
I start panicking just thinking about doing that stuff! 😄😒
i was about to post, these videos have really motivated me to never do anything like this..
But then you will never experience the insane rush you get from swimming in the cold, dark water with the strong possibility of death. How could you possibly pass that up!?
@@siriush100 I've managed 45 years without it already, I think I'll be ok, thanks 😉
A tragedy compounded by another tragedy... I can only imagine David Shaw's death added to the trauma that Dion's family suffered through
They dare the devil. They get dead. It comes and goes with the territory. If I die doing something stupid(likely inevitable), I’m going to haunt anybody who doesn’t refer to me as a dumbass.
@@loganmeline9233eh, more like he was stubborn in his attempt to retrieve the body, and declining brain functioning due to the environment basically made him stick with the effort so long, he died.
If he left the body, he probably would be alive today
The parents of the deceased 20 year old must of been really happy.
That they didn't have to pay the diver for his services.
@@lockethomas7165 If you really think an airline pilot did it for money, there's something a bit off with you
@@Jabarri74 Most people think the only reason anyone does anything is for money.
In 1988, a friend of my brother saw me with my professional camera gear hanging on my neck and both shoulders, and assumed I was making a fortune shooting things. I said no, not yet, I did it cos I considered it to be important work. She got this weird look and said "Well, if you don't get paid for it, why do you do it?" "Well, I doubt if you're getting paid to be a snotty b!tch to me right now, but you're doing that." She bitched to my brother, he backed me up, and she left.
Some people might say it's boring but everytime I hear stories like this I'm always grateful that I have the "I'll stay here and watch the bags, just in case, because I don't want to die a horrible painful lonely death" personality type.
Me too! I have a "I'll stay at base camp and cook you guys waffles when you get back" personality.
Bruh on god though
All I know is that no one has ever been eaten by a bear in my bedroom, so I'm just going to stay there
I'm with you. I like to call myself an avid indoorsman.
Cave diving is one of the most dangerous activities you can do, I like being adventurous but in this case I'm right there with you
You have an uncanny ability to retell a story, beaten to death by other creators, and still manage to make it more interesting than the others
This comment needs to be higher up!!!
He also has as a knack for respectfully telling the story to those of us who've never heard of this tragedy. What a sad outcome. My heart breaks for Dion and David. David tried his best! 💔
& thank god it isn’t another AI voice doing the narration lol
I LOVE the way he tells a story.. could listen to him for hours. Excellent narrator.
*This is why it's so stupid to be "the hero nobody wanted or asked for".*
Anybody who died cave diving would rather their remains rest in place, as a precaution to other divers.
Very few are selfish enough to want their remains extracted, and most of their families don't want people to risk their lives to extract the remains.
These are simply remains - they are NOT the PERSON who perished - they are the REMAINS of the person who perished.
The remains are absolutely useless to the person who perished, and they're absolutely useless to their family as well.
All they are is a SYMBOL of the person who once was. They have zero useful value to that person or anyone else.
*This airline pilot wasn't engaging on this dive for altruistic reasons* - *he did it for his own personal glory.*
He lost that battle, which proves not only my point, but the point that thousands of other cave divers have tried to press to the public.
This would be like going to the moon solely to bring back the remains of someone who perished trying to journey there.. and only because you think it's impressive to journey to the moon to bring back someone else's remains.
*The people who perished at the bottom of cave dives would rather their bodies be left there as a cautionary tale to those who come next. The last thing they'd want is their remains to be dragged out of there in pieces just so others risking their lives wouldn't have to see them.*
*Just think of Mt Everest, and how many of those climbers wanted their remains left there instead of others risking their lives for either glory or profit simply to retrieve their remains.*
This is one of the saddest stories I've heard. Glad both men were finally returned to their families. Rest in peace.
Really? I could think of 173 sadder stories, probably a lot more if you give me two minutes.
@@Skaatjeooh edgy
Stupid people, really.
@@SkaatjeI think the stories where innocent people were going about their lives only to die horribly because someone was cutting corners or talking shortcuts are a lot sadder. These were two adults who knew the risks and decided to accept them.
Edgy or not, he is right. Do you honestly think the other topics of this channel, where ordinary people, young and old die in the dozens during there everyday life is not sadder than two people risking their life willfullly and paying the price?
I have been fascinated by this story for years. Dave was wearing a helmet cam that documented everything down there on this fateful dive. There’s a heartbreaking video of Don Shirley watching the footage and giving commentary on what went wrong. There's quite a few extensive articles written about the incident, as well as a recent documentary called Dave's Not Coming Back, released in 2020. Thank you for covering this story FH!
Best Video Camera for Cave Diving = Don'tGoPro
lol@@emilyadams3228
Ah, I was wondering how they knew what happened with David at the bottom-if it was camera related or just guesswork-thanks for the info! Still truly sad though :(
Well worth a watch thats for sure
I too have been interested in this sad story for years. I'm glad you mentioned this. It's hard to tell in the video what is happening, but it's still really impactful.
As a South African, this is the first time I have heard of this story. Well researched and a fascinating piece.
RIP to these souls. Tragic.
Fellow South African here. I knew of it because as another comment said, it's probably the most covered diving accident on UA-cam. There's even camera footage of it. But since you found it fascinating, consider looking up the channels that specifically cover cave diving accidents. It's really interesting.
Another South African here.... first time hearing about this.
Go and read "Raising the Dead" by Tim Zimmerman. It's an incredible breakdown of every moment of the preparation and recovery made from interviews with eyewitnesses and divers.
Fellow South African. It's also the first time I heard of this.
Unfortunately there are a lot of diving accidents and many videos. This is one of the saddest. There’s also a new documentary on Netflix about free diving. I get the same anxiety thinking about free diving as I do cave diving. Both sports I’ll never understand bc the thought scares me so much.
If I dive stupidly and end up dying, PLEASE leave my body where it is. I hate how many stories are about rescuers also losing their lives while trying to find someone or even just retrieving a corpse. Fuckin' leave it and roll a boulder over it to seal the entrance. The solidarity of taking on a risk that killed someone is admirable but when you're already hurt yourself and your family through irresponsibility the last thing you want is the death of another on your karma.
Bring a pre-made sign and post it where you dive then
Don't seal the entrance. :/ Why should others be prevented from exploring the same area you did? Rather than sealing the entrance, put a sign of 'Here I rest, please do not disturb my remains'. Most divers will honor that.
@@pyro226 i didn't mentally take in the "seal it" part. I have a very specific DNR order and I do stand by putting up a sign if you do NOT want a rescue attempted. I do dry caving and I put a piece of paper on my dash that says if I am missing, do NOT try to rescue my body and I park as close to the cave as I can.
@@hicknopunkYou should check with the local authorities to see if they would honor that note. You shouldn’t assume that they will.
I share the feeling, but the thing is people like us would never go down there in the first place. Those who partake in such activities are more willing to take risks. If they'll risk their lives just to set a depth record, it's not too far fetched that they'll risk it to recover the remains of a fellow diver.
I can’t imagine the horror of the first man’s family being up on the surface and hearing someone else died and another got injured retrieving his body. Dion’s body should’ve been left down there I’m sorry.
Exactly...why risk lives for an already dead body. This story has always bothered me.
The body was already rising, I would've just let it float to the top. Maybe not great for the family to suddenly see, but it would've spared one more life. I wouldn't beret the person risking their life for not bringing up the body "properly", because he still had done something no one else had and I would still be grateful if I were the family. Such a shame that another person died, but at least both bodies were recovered.
I think it's a sort of code of conduct for divers. "If I were to die down here, I'd want someone to help me out." Do as you wish done to yourself, kind of thing.
As for letting the body rise, yes, that would have been a better solution than trying to stick the body in the body bag. But David was suffering from nitrogen narcosis and COULD NOT think clearly. Better decisions could have been made but he was intellectually handicapped because of his situation. Shame.
It's no longer you down there that needs helped out tho, it's only your corpse. So David's death was a tragic unnecessary situation to add to the mix.@@aethelfrithofbernica
@@aethelfrithofbernica They need to adapt the mentality of Everest climbers. They're told in no uncertain terms that after a certain height it becomes too dangerous to attempt rescues/body recoveries before they begin the climb.
This is probably the most covered diving accident on UA-cam yet Fascinating Horror still manages to make this very tragic tale well, fascinating. ❤
you did not have time to watch the video, based on time of post.
@@auggieaxiom5726lol
David Shaw and Yuri Lipski are probably the two most that I've come across.
@@auggieaxiom5726 Lots of channels release videos early for Patreon members
This is actually the first time I hear about this accident and I was wondering why it wasn't covered by other channels I follow
Props to Dave for attempting to have Deion’s body laid to rest, only to be laid to rest himself. Very tragic, but he tried. I hope both families are doing okay today. For the most part they had closure for their loved ones 🙏 💐
His name appears to be spelled “deon” at least according to Wikipedia
“Deon Dreyer (7 August 1974 - 17 December 1994) was a South African recreational scuba diver who died in Bushman's Hole in South Africa. Cave diver David Shaw died more than 10 years later while attempting to retrieve Dreyer's body”
Props? For an adrenaline addict narcissist yelling "look at me! I break records!"? Um, not today.
@@princeofcupspoc9073 I agree, while on the surface his intention may seem good. Risking his life, and the trauma it would and probably did bring to his family and children for a strangers remains in my opinion is actually incredibly selfish and irresponsible. If you want to be that guy. Don't have a family that you leave behind, shattered and broken because you wanted to save a corpse. The living should (almost*) ALWAYS be prioritized over the dead. That was not done here, and the true victims are the families of these two men. People do this more often than you think. A friend of mine had a family and children. He decided one day to ride his bicycle without a helmet. He fell off, his his head, and it completely changed his personality, forcing his wife and children to basically distance themselves from him. In my opinion, not wearing a helmet, was an stupid, and irresponsible thing to do, considering he had a family with children to look after. Such a simple mistake can lead to devastating consequences and cause so much trauma for other people, so while I understand there is thrill in danger, putting thrill an danger above family and responsibility is in my opinion, not something hat we should celebrate, nor encourage.
Props for what? To retreat a corpse? He died for a cadaver. Not very intelligent behaviour
This guy david was foolish and dumb I don't feel sorry for him. Just leave the body of the guy that died their in 1994 that's his tomb that's where he died at. Now the family of the young man who died in 1994 now they feel even more guilty because this other guy died trying to retrieve their family members body when nobody asked him too.
All the money in the world would never convince me to take on a challenge as dangerous as this
Exactly. No thanks
Many will disagree but the cause of Shaws death was selfishness. I'm sure part of the reason he attempted this retrieval was to provide closure to the family, but nothing we do in this life is done out of pure selflessness.
Yep. The guy was a pilot ffs. I'm not certain I would even want to be in a plane flown by someone who would do crazy shit like this.
You did a great job of explaining the science of diving and decompression sickness. The only thing I would add is that technical divers going beyond on the recreational depths typically use a gas mixture called “Trimix,” which mitigates the effects of nitrogen narcosis by replacing some of the nitrogen with helium. Additionally, oxygen at normal levels (21%) only has a maximum operating depth of about 185 feet, after that it can become toxic and cause seizures. Gas mixtures with lower oxygen levels are utilized beyond these depths. A diver on normal tanks will have to switch to a different tank with the proper mixture, but a rebreather such as the one Shaw had will mix the gas to the proper ratios within the loop.
Shaw perished because he overexerted himself and became hypoxic due to the buildup of his own CO2, which is a hazard of using rebreathers. Breathing becomes more difficult in general at extreme depths like that due to ambient pressure.
Thank you for explaining tank mixtures...something I never knew.
Trimix is also used when MIG welding stainless steel. Probably wouldn't want to use that in a scuba tank though since it's argon, helium and carbon dioxide. 😅
I was going to say the same thing. Shaw was using an advanced trimix closed-circuit rebreather that would automatically switch between several mixes of trimix, nitrox, and pure oxygen (for shallow decompression) based on his depth, selected to keep the partial pressure of oxygen at safe levels and to mitigate the effects of nitrogen narcosis.
@@caseytwillAny idea why it still happened then, given that he had more advanced equipment that should have avoided this issue?
@@deprofundis3293 Scuba diving is a surprisingly physical sport. The physiological stresses your body endures while under pressure (both physical and mental) can really wipe you out. There have been times I've come up from what I thought was a fairly relaxing dive and barely been able to stand up, and I don't go anywhere near the depths that Shaw was at.
The kind of extreme deep diving that Dave Shaw enjoyed walks the line of what is survivable and what is lethal. Shaw had every stage of that 10 hour dive planned down to the second. If he had followed the plan exactly, he should have been safe (no guarantees), but any deviation, no matter how small, has serious consequences. When he had trouble recovering Dreyer's body, he deviated from his plan. His stress levels increased too high, his breathing became too rapid, he was physically exerting himself too much, and he stayed at the max depth a few minutes longer than he had planned to, and those little deviations added up to create a fatal situation.
For a detailed commentary of what happened to Shaw second by second:
ua-cam.com/video/PCwad5xKoyA/v-deo.html
I'd like to think after such a valiant effort, Dion and Dave could meet on the other side and laugh about the irony over a heavenly beer or something. My heart goes out to both families and the friends of these people. RIP, guys☹️
David Shaw gave his life to give that family closure. May he always be remembered.
The family didn't want him to do it.
Could you imagine being the family though, I’d feel so guilty knowing the attempts to gather the remains of my son cost someone else their life in almost the exact same fashion…
@@sallyschildcare The interview I've seen with Deon's father said that the father would have been happy for Deon to stay there, but the mother wanted to recover the body for a proper burial, so the father agreed and they jointly gave permission for Dave to make the dive.
@bobblebardsley it was a very stupid idea from the start. Risk value was far too high, there's some great books out there about this dive.
@@sallyschildcare I didn't say it was a good/bad idea.
"Dave Not Coming Back," the very poignant line from Don Shirley's note to the support team, is also the name of a documentary about David Shaw and his team's attempt to retrieve Dion Dreyer's body. It's very intense at times, but I would strongly recommend giving it a watch.
Seeing them practicing this stunt and Dave wondering about the size of the camera he was going to use is heartbreaking, knowing the outcome.
Cave diving will never not be the most dreadful thing we humans willingly subject ourselves to
AGREED! It's completely insane.
Only way we will awaken a massive sea monster is going into the right hole
@@Grinningfartking6969 That's DEFINITELY someone else's job 😂
Only if you're bad at it
Same shit with mountain climbing lol
A tragic outcome. If my family member met his end in similar circumstances, I'd prefer they be left where they lay, rather than risk more lives to retrieve. RIP. Thankyou FH, another thoughtful, well researched and presented episode.
Especially since they put a plaque nearby as a memorial. It's sad that his body will never be recovered, but his memory was honored this way, and like you said it's not worth risking other lives.
@Tetrisgoat786 If you watched til end you'd know both bodies were recovered, floating at surface.
Me too. It would be a testament as to how dangerous the site is and a reminder that nature does not care about us as individuals. You have to be careful with it and sometimes things will go wrong even when you do everything right.
Already getting anxiety thinking of tight underwater spaces. Even if it’s just on a video I still feel claustrophobic
I'm with you.
Why does caving seem like a good idea to some ??
No way, oh and under water......Hell No!!
I'm NOT doing that.
No kidding. There are few things as terrifying as becoming disoriented and trapped underwater. Hopefully the effects of nitrogen narcosis spared David that terror in his final moments.
I have watched Mr Ballen on this one. From him I have learned these lessons:
1. Avoid holes
2. Avoid water
3. Avoid holes with water in them
4:00 I truly appreciate how this channel humanizes tragic incidents like this.
Truly tragic. Had David Shaw let the body float toward the surface, it wouldn't have made it all the way, but could have been safely retrieved. He was very considerate of the next of kin but consideration isn't worth your own death and he realized that far too late.
David sounds like such a pure human. Doing what is right because it is right. Just so strangers could have a chance of healing some. RIP.
I understood that Dion’s parents had pleaded with divers, David in particular, to retrieve their son’s body. Whether David felt obligated to make the perilous attempt because of this, or if he would have done it without being pressured by Dion’s parents, I don’t know.
I would never want anyone to put their own lives at risk to bring back a dead body of anyone in my family, or myself, it is not worth it. If you know there is no possible way of finding anyone alive, leave them where they are.
@@janetpendlebury6808Same.
@@janetpendlebury6808Agreed, but trauma makes people unable to think clearly. They (the family members) weren't thinking clearly.
I do recall hearing in another video that the parents had begged anyone to find their son for a long while and were the ones to pay for the ROV early on the look for it. I don't know if David was ever brought up specifically, though, and iirc he found the body by happenstance and let the parents know of his own accord before getting ready to retrieve it.
Where did you get the info that they pleaded with him? I’ve never heard this detail in the couple videos/articles I’ve seen, and judging by the way they purposely arrived late to the dive to avoid pressure on David, its hard to believe they would have pushed him much.
I think David would have wanted to do it either way - the cave diving community seems to be very tight-knit and Dion’s death had a real impact, especially since his body was unrecovered. And Dave was a very daring, very skilled guy.
Such a sad story. Dive Talk also treats this tragedy really well from the divers' perspective. Yours has been the best layman's treatment so far.
What an incredibly amusing name for such a terrifying place to die. It's like finding out someone drowned in Lake Titicaca.
Its a morbid thought but I can't help but think Davids determination to get the body in the bag was in part so the boys decomposed body didn't pop to the surface in plain view of his parents looking on at the surface. Rip.
I forgot what channel this was at first because I was rooting for David. I bet the family is so grateful for David at least for trying to get him out. RIP 🕊️
I didn’t hear about his attempted body retrieval until this video. I had no idea someone else died due to just trying to do a good deed. RIP David and Dion
Hearing the words "the deepest submerged freshwater cave in the world" elicites a hard pass from me everytime.
Its not so fresh anymore...
There is a whole documentary about this called ‘Dave Not Coming Back’, that’s how I first heard about this. It’s so heartbreak! David lost his life to bring peace to a grieving family, what an incredible man ❤ Rest in peace to both Deon and David 🪽
That film just left me stunned. Boy did I have a lump in my throat even already knowing how things went down. It really had quite an impact.
Imo the worst part of diving is the need to sit at different depths for several hours decompressing before being able to surface. If someone you're diving with is killed, you still have to silently sit for several hours afterwards in the dark, underwater, unable to leave.
It's such a bittersweet irony that Shaw's attempt ended up being a success, except in a way that wasn't quite as planned...
Mission failed successfully.
I have watched / read / listened to numerous stories where the need for decompression is mentioned, but none have explained it in as clear and concise a way as you have done in this video. Great job. 👌
Normally, either things go to plan or you back out and form a new plan. Hard to do when suffering from depth-related conditions. RIP Dave
Thank you for making a video out of this incident. I had first learnt about it in Qxir's Last Moments series. I love that both channels are very respectful with the material, and that everytime two channels I watch cover the same topic, they describe different details that help see the bigger picture (like you going in depth about the sicknesses and symptoms, and Qxir talking about the rescuer's contact with the family and how they felt upon his death). Happens too sometimes with your channel and Dark Records. If only more channels respected the deceased and didn't exaggerate the material like it was a horror film...
Looking back, if David had just freed Dion's body and then left, Dion's body would have floated to the surface as it ultimately did.
That's what I was thinking; it sounded like he was messing with those silk body bags way longer than needed. I would've stopped stopped after a minute or so.
@@nomadpurple6154Apparently the body was buoyant though, so when dave freed it from the silt he couldn't control it and it got tangled up in his lines.
@@axeltank06 Unfortunately nitrogen narcosis takes away your ability to think clearly, and divers often do foolish things like remove their mouthpieces or gear because they aren't able to use logic. The smart thing to do would've been to leave the body alone, but Dave was incapable of making that decision. He could only think of the plan that had already been laid out and was unable to realize the passing time or the danger to himself. It's shocking to me that they didn't have a second person down there with him who had the mission of getting them both up in case of an emergency.
I look forward to 2:15 am every Tuesday. Thank you, FH, for your amazing (and dependable) content 🖤✌️
The "Cave" was not willing to give up Dion with out another sacrifice. God rest their souls. Bless their families.
None of these channels that cover this tragedy mention the movie Dave Not Coming Back. It’s heartbreaking watching Dave before the dive, knowing what will happen. And watching the actual “recovery” attempt thru his camera lens is horrible.
I love the water, and have nothing but the upmost respect for those who push themselves to such limits... Can't say I see myself ever wanting to try cave diving, but the idea of seeing parts of the earth that a handful of people ever get to see in their lifetime is indeed very intriguing. It's a shame that accidents happen when they do.
I hesitate to call them accidents. I would call them “inevitability’s”. With so many things that can go wrong, the immense focus required to perform these tasks, and the stress put on the body, there will certainly be casualties. Even the most skilled and experienced divers can and do, meet their ends in caves like these. Peace to the families of those who have been lost. 🙏
It's "utmost", not "upmost".
What a deep story. It is amazing how in the end both men floated to the surface and were retrieved. 😮
"Deep story"? really?
they both floated up for the same reason, just Dion was trapped in mud at the bottom, Dave wasn’t .
I've heard and looked up so much about this story in the past (along with the Nutty Putty cave story) They are both so heartbreakingly tragic I generally avoid them now.
You've done a great job at this though FH. I don't complain to channels for still covering it because I realize there are others that are hearing it for the first time.
This is an extra eerie one because there’s video of Dave’s final dive. You see him getting disoriented and panicking then the last thing you see is Deons face before he passes out. Then the details of what Don went through on his way to the surface were brutal. Was spinning out of control and throwing up in his mask. It’s a miracle he made it out.
If I ever go cave diving (I won't) and I die down there (I definitely would), the last thing I'd want is for anyone else to risk their lives to drag up my waterlogged meat. Just let it stay there. A sunken cave is as good a grave as anywhere else.
Well said!
This story is part of my favorite "This American Life" episode. Episode 515, act 3, No man left behind. The story is told so well.
On a tangential note, it's curious that so-called free divers, ie. those who do not use any breathing equipment, can dive to incredible depths (even over 100 meters; obviously they use a winch mechanism that pulls them down at great speed) and come right up immediately without any ill effect, the entire dive only taking a minute, two at most.
(This is because since they only have a lungful of air, gotten at the surface, there's no extra nitrogen to get into the bloodstream, and thus they don't suffer from any related ill effects of it.)
Because they take their breath at the surface and hold it the whole way down and up. They’re not breathing through oxygen tanks
You can watch David’s GoPro footage from his dive leading up to his death. It’s scary, as you can see how easily one can get confused & disoriented down there. May he RIP.
There's a reason cave diving is a specialty course for experienced divers only, and even then, it's not for all divers. A good buddy of mine has a picture of himself pushing his tanks along in front of him because the cave is too narrow for him to wear them normally. Mind you, my buddy is a combat diver for the armed forces, is certified to teach whatever specialty exists for diving, runs his own commercial diving business as well as an equipment shop, and is occasionally turned to by the fire and police departments for water recovery and training... Sorry, I'm rambling again, but there's one thing they teach you day one of the introduction course and it's this: KNOW YOUR LIMITS!!! Very few deaths are actually equipment related. I'm told that the most common cause of death while diving is actually a heart attack or some form of cardiac emergency.
@@Cookiofshadows2 Oh, I agree. I’ve watched many cave diving videos where guys didn’t know their limits, & that’s what happened here. Technically, there was an equipment/gear malfunction from the body bag & the rope getting twisted with the body. David realized it was a serious mistake & he should’ve aborted the mission & left the body. But he thought he could do it & wanted to fulfill his promise & pushed himself too far, costing him his life. I imagine the adrenaline of narrowly beating death feels euphoric to some of these guys. Unfortunately, it can get the best of them.
This is basically the underwater version of Nutty Putty Cave
That's what I thought too. Sad incidents!
@cfjruth sad but completely and utterly preventable! Why these people feel the need to perform such dangerous acts with little to no reward is beyind logic in my opinion and although I feel terrible for the families they leave behind I find it hard to have sympathy for them
Such a sad story. _“greater love hath no man than that he lays down his life for a friend”_
but surely… *even greater is the love when it is for a stranger who has already gone.*
Very respectful coverage going into any hole underwater is never a good idea
I remember watching qxir cover the story and have the footage of Dave trying to get the body. Crazy how the camera Dave was using to record the mission ultimately is what helped cause his death with things getting tangled.
I dive frequently and I love it; but will never, ever go cave diving. I also get uneasy wreck diving if I cannot see an immediate exit.
The thought of getting trapped underwater or being beyond reach is terrifying.
Cave diving is fascinating, but I will never ever go. It is so dangerous.
😢
I've heard explanations of the bends and nitrogen narcosis before and understood them in general terms, but I think yours was the best description I've ever heard and made it so much more understandable.
Great explanation of the bends and nitrogen narcosis
This incident is spine chilling. For a moment you see the faceless mask of the decomposing diver.
Just watched the documentary his friends made before, during and after the incident (called "Dave Not Coming Back") which is super sad and super interesting at the same time.
You did an excellent job explaining the role of pressure and nitrogen to the non expert. I’ve been diving for a long time and I have scarcely heard as succinct an explanation.
I imagine not a popular opinion but if someone died in an inaccessible cave what's the point of dragging the remains out just to bury them again? Especially when the people engaged in recovering the remains might also suffer a similar fate. The last thing I would want is for someone to risk their life to recover my remains. Very sad.
Closure comes to mind.
One of the few cases that made me shiver. How horrifying
Very respectfully covered, thank you
so david went from flying in areas of decreased pressure(yes i do know planes do hold a constant air pressure while flying) to diving into increased pressure interesting. also yeah going to the surface and then bagging the body would have been smarter but with how long david was down there and the effects of nitrogen poisoning taking affect, he wasn't thinking straight. such a sad story
The oxygen you breathe when doing a dive at these depths is more helium than oxygen in an attempt to stop bends. . Also don broke the rules of the dive and went down to help David but after spending longer than he was meant too at the bottom he knew that even if he got David back there wouldn't be enough oxygen tanks for both of them waiting on the line and they would most likely die before more could get to them..
The full documentary is on UA-cam and is really worth a watch.
That being said if you don't have time to watch nearly 2 hours this us and amazing alternative. Love your content
Don had an equipment failure, something imploded. I think the dive computer or something.
*Just some corrections and comments to the background:*
1. It's the surrounding pressure that determines the pressure of the air or gas mixture you breath. It's impossible to breath air at pressures lower than that of the surrounding water mass. I.e. you don't do anything to prevent your lungs from collapsing, apart from breathing normally.
2. Gases will dissolve into the blood at just a few meters depth. The higher the pressure the more nitrogen will dissolve in the blood. If you ascend slowly, the nitrogen will have time to leave the blood and be exhaled before causing problems, if you ascend rapidly, bubbles will form. You can compare it with opening a bottle of soda, when you open the lid and release the pressure, the drink will fizz and lots of little bubbles will form.
3. Decompression sickness (DCS), or the bends, has a wide range of symptoms, depending on where the bubbles end up. The illness is divided into two types: DCS Type 1, which is less severe but can still cause death or permanent damage if not treated, and DCS Type 2, which is life threatening. It's common for bubbles to congregate in joints, thus joint pain being the most common symptom of DCS Type 1. For DCS Type 2, the most common symptom is unconsciousness. If you have had DCS Type 1 you are more likely to get DCS again in the future. DCS is very hard to distinguish from lungexpansion injuries, another serious illness that can occur when diving, where the decreasing pressure cause the air in the lungs to expand and tear the lung tissue. DCS and lung expansion injuries are together called decompression illnesses (DCI) and first aid for both are to administer pure oxygen. Oxygen will do nothing for lungexpansion injuries but it at least won't hurt, in DCS oxygen will help air out the nitrogen.
4. To lower the risks of getting DCI, other gas mixes than air is used. In recreational diving. the air can be enriched with oxygen, up to 40% of the gas can be oxygen. On the dive computer at 3:41 you can see that the diver is using enriched air as the oxygen level is set at 32%. Oxygen is not an uncomplicated gas as it can irritate the lungs and cause oxygen poisoning under pressure. Technical divers (such as the cave divers in the video) often opt for something called trimix, where helium is added to lower the concentrations of both nitrogen and oxygen. To air out residual nitrogen left in the blood, technical divers will make several decompression stops to allow the nitrogen time to escape. The last stop they will make is normally at a depth of about 6 meters where they breath pure oxygen before ascending to the surface.
5. It's not only nitrogen that causes narcosis, oxygen also cause narcosis. I experience gas narcosis as extreme anxiety and paranoia, thus I avoid dives at depths greater than 25 meters.
I will never understand how so many people enjoy risking their lives to explore the watery depths... rest in peace to all those adventurers who didn't get to return home.
It's called training and knowing your limits. :)
@@Cookiofshadows2 I have an adventurous spirit, so I *understand* wanting to do everything with your time. But this and caving, I would not attempt. So many fatalities 💔
this is the first time someone explains clearly how the bends occur. ty
These videos continue to maintain wonderful quality and intelligent research. Between Bushman's Hole and General Slocum its even a little sultry
Lol
I feel like so often the stories told on this channel are rooted in negligence and/or greed, but it’s so much more somber when it’s caused directly by a painfully noble deed.
I never heard of this place, or this incident.Thank you for another interesting, if tragic, bit of history. I look forward to "tuning in" on Tuesday mornings, wondering what disaster you'll cover next.
This is sooo devastating I cannot believe the effort and bravery of David. So selfless. He really must've felt the pressure to retrieve the body after prior attemps(s). I'm glad they can be put to rest. So claustrophobic the story telling alone. I don't go 8n a swimming pool I just dip my toes in the sea or pool. I just can't get my head around the dangers and risks of cave exploration. But each to their own.
I'm sure this whole stunt made Dion's family feel SO much better
There’s a documentary about this dive called Dave Not Coming Back that shows the entire process of preparing for the retrieval of Dions body and the aftermath of the dive
They wanted to be able to capture the rescue with the camera but unfortunately it got in the way and helped cause his death.
This is how I feel when I drop something down the side of the car seat. It's gone. Let it go. It's not worth my life to retrieve.
David is a real G and the sort of friends I like to surround myself with. May they both rest in peace
I’ve heard of this tragedy but not through a documentary. I was browsing UA-cam and came across a prog rock instrumental album whose songs are inspired by tragic endeavours, including this and the Challenger tragedy. It was beautiful. I’ll link it here if I find it again.
I love your documentaries and I’d love to see you cover the story of Finnair Flight 405, a domestic flight between Oulu and Helsinki that was hijacked in 1978. The hijacked route included going back and forth between the two cities and even a trip to Amsterdam.
Departure Songs by We Lost The Sea. Amazing album!
@@frost2072 Ah exactly, thank you! An amazing album based on an amazing concept. I love it so much.
I’ve heard this story told many times, but this is the first time I’ve heard that their bodies floated to the surface and were able to be recovered. Idk if I’ve heard that before and just never paid attention to that detail, or if this is the first time I’m actually hearing that bit of information. As far as I can remember, I’ve always come away from hearing this story with the idea that both of their bodies were still down there at the bottom and that it had been determined that it was too dangerous to attempt another recovery for either of them. That said, learning that they were recovered, returned to their families, and laid to rest is nice to hear. I hope that their families found some peace in that.
There is a documentary film about it called Dave Not Coming Back and it's absolutely gripping, and completely heart breaking, and done tastefully in a way that honoured Dave, I was nearly in tears even knowing full well how things turned out (obviously, the clue is in the name). Highly moving, and highly recommended. It is so awful that even the support divers are all on borrowed time, if they cross the threshold then they only risk adding to statistics and they simply cannot go back down to help.
My father was a pilot for Cathay Pacific as well, and had a passing acquaintance with Mr. Shaw. He was not surprised when he learned of the manner of his death.
So sad! I do not understand why anyone would want to be in a cave underwater. Or why David kept trying to put the body in the body bag when he could have let it float & guided it up without the bag.
It’s not the nitrogen bubbles which are most problematic on these deep dives, but rather the helium bubbles from the trimix we breathe. As a deep cave diver myself, we sometimes breathe a mixture of 8% oxygen, 80% helium, and 12% nitrogen to conduct very deep dives.
It’s tough to balance the nitrogen narcosis you get with more nitrogen against the greater chance of HPNS (high pressure nervous syndrome) or decompression sickness when you have more helium in your mix. The helium molecules are much smaller and can work their way into joints and nerves causing more severe decompression sickness compared to normal air or nitrox.
There is also the factor of gas density and work-of-breathing, it’s better to have more helium in your mix with a rebreather since it’s a far less dense gas and reduces the work-of-breathing at greater depths. Oxygen and nitrogen are much more dense and become very hard to breathe at extreme depths, like trying to breathe through a thin coffee-stirring type of straw.
@Fascinating Horror thanks for covering a South African story! There are many others, hope to see more soon!
I'm so grateful for the explorers of the world who travel deep in the oceans and high above to space. I'm also really happy that those things terrify me and that the simplest things...like gardening or painting give me excitement. I have never felt the need for daring adventure but I really appreciate those people who love it! The rest of us get to see amazing pictures and videos thanks to them!
There are places You're not supposed to go and things You're not supposed to do.
One of my favourite channels on UA-cam ever!!!
Sad, but when i think of all the people who are dying of cancer or innocent victims of accidents, shootings etc., my sympathy for these sports risk takers is small.
i would kill for a longer version of these
To do an extreme dive to recover a body is folly as the margin for error is almost zero
This and the Putty Caves story are enough to keep me from ever wanting to explore deep caves.
Definitely respect him trying to get the body out….but the family already accepted it as his final resting place.
Then why did they ask him and show up?
Kind of nice to know that ultimately he died doing something he loved and he completed his mission of reuniting the family… despite dying in a horrible and terrifying way I guess.
Nope, there is something about caves and water that just screams “No you don’t” to me.
Ive heard this one told before but the amount of embellishments added made it so uncomfortable that I couldn't finish. So thanks for being so straightforward and respectful
3 minutes in and I already feel like I'm listening to a nightmare, now trying to decide if cave divers are mad or a unique subspecies of human.
I'd say both...
Please do the Sewol Ferry Disaster and the Slave Lake, Canada fire of 2011.
One of my absolute favorite UA-cam channels. It’s disturbingly awesome…you rock dude.
One thing that always bothers me about this is that if the body was still buoyant, why not ditch the bag and let it just float up?
That just shows the effects of nitrogen narcossis, the lack of O2 can prevent you from thinking straight.
Deion's body had become adopicere, so had some buoyancy but not enough for it to float to the surface.
@@nekminute6999 so how did he float to the surface later with the other lost diver? Sorry, I'm just curious.
Admirable as it is to try to retrieve the body, there are times where it just isn’t worth the attempt, especially in such a dangerous location. RIP.
I can only hope that this guy tried to get the body in the bag due to respect for the family and not wanting them to see a possibly severely decomposed body float to the surface.
The only other options could be stubbornness, arrogance, or pride in doing it his way, which seems absurd considering the effort that went into this. Or maybe he just wasn't all that smart.
Yes, once the body was free he should try to get it in the bag at first, but he should have given up if it was really that much of a struggle. He should have known the consequences before narcosis kicked in. Best case, the body floats up so slow that he can manage to beat it to the surface (doubtful since he has to wait to avoid the bends). Maybe it gets stuck somewhere higher up. Worst case, the body floats and the family sees it, but at least the mission is accomplished without sacrifice.
As much respect as I have for the man's efforts, I hope this story serves as a reminder to everyone to always take the safer route where possible.