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It may be a good game. But i wouldnt want my 8 yr old self to play it. This just isnt the type of game i grew up with. So obsess3d with makin it all look like a movie. They forgot to make a game thats supposed to make kids fall iin love with rpgs
I will always remenber that one mario review IGN made where the guy clearly didnt like the game with is fine and yet he still gave it a good grade at the end
One thing that my ears caught was tam's line about how most side quests dont make an impact on Clive as a character but truthfully there are a lot of side quests that get lost in the myriads of green icons like Jill's sidequest priceless which could potentially change even your interpretation of the ending or the hypocrates one with the quill . Most people that dont like the ending skipped those side quests because of side quest fatigue . I feel like the more personal ones could have been integrated much better
If you're keeping up with everything as it comes up, around the time you hit 65%-70%, the side quests are so exponentially better than the early ones. The Act 2 side quests are almost all filler, I agree with that completely, but they're nothing akin to that by end game.
Yeah games being overstuffed is such a common problem. Like in Far Cry 6 - 80% of the writing is crap, and 20% is good. If they had just trimmed down how much is in the game they could have focused on the good stuff.
I feel that, even though the side quests are not as involved as something like Witcher 3 or an obsidian/Bioware rpg, most of them are really interesting/involved with the character development and world building. More than most side quests in previous final fantasy games. Gameplay wise too. I think the combat is more complex than people give it credit. It's not devil may cry by a long shot, but I don't think it needs to be. I get it, the game has flaws, but I've been absolutely enjoying it, and taking my time with it (something I noticed with elden ring too, people complaining it was too long after finishing it in a couple of weeks, while it took me the best part of a year to get to the end). I guess I'll see what the ending is like, but so far, it's only gotten better since I started.
Do you think he did all the side quests? i had a feeling by the way he talked about them that maybe he didn’t complete all of them? (I could be wrong, but the way he says they don’t create a sense of community when I literally felt the inverse of that at the end of the game, after completing all of them though).
1:23:39 There are visible changes to the game world like the kids fighting w paper swords in FFVII remake within Final Fantasy XVI as well after some of the side quests. One saw the visible re-population of Eastpool, and another even saw a whole Village wiped out after being flooded with aether.
I agree, they said that but you can clearly see some of them didn’t do all the side quest which is very odd if you are comparing both games side quests (7R has way less side quests than this though, but also 16 has some very badish mmoish sidequest), but it would be better if some say that they have not done all of the side quest at least because the thing for me is that 15% of the last side quest on xvi managed to deliver compelling and wholesome stories while also having better pacing and better feeling of improving the hideaway community, without doing some of the side quest even the ending interpretation of the game changes.
@@TheTinyTimmyTimTim the + sign only exist because is the literar same design they used for XIV quests, on XIV + blue sign quest are some content unlocks (jobs, dungeons, raids and etc). I would honestly say that both suck on the side quest side, but some kids playing with a fake buster sword is such a change to the world? How different is that to see all the npc you saved on the hideaway? He didn’t do the quests that’s what I got from the conversation but he compared both like he did all of them, typical journalism fake knowledge.
Yeah he's either lying or didn't play the game as multiple parts of the World and characters along with npcs are changed over the span of the game through main quest alone not even to mention side quests. NorthReach, Eastpool, hell even your own hideaway changes and the people too all have different dialogue and respond to you over time and how you have interacted with them before. The Village you first come across Gav, with Quentin? It completely changes by the end of the game and that change is all throughout the game. These guys really in this video clearly didn't play the game and watched cutscenes on UA-cam to get the idea of the story.
I’m about 25, 30 hours in FFXVI and have done most of the side content in conjunction with the main quests and so far I can’t shake the feeling that xvi plays like a single player ffxiv. You go from MSQ to MSQ in XIV and occasionally it lands you to fight a boss that is generally an epic fight with awesome music. The stuff in between feels empty in both XIV and XVI. There’s also things like handing over items to NPCs and the general stiffness of the camera angles in cutscenes that bear an uncanny resemblance to XIV. I mean it makes sense since the devs are the same but I guess a part of me wishes that they could step out of that comfort zone.
Yeah those camera cuts hurt a lot for some reason. For me I think it could be the camera and animations of characters as you talk to them. The repetition and lack of meaningful rewards doesn't help. It reminds me of the stiff animations of characters in Horizon Zero Dawn. Frozen Wilds absolutely stepped up in that department and I noticed the difference immediately. I really could feel the MMO in the game.
While I agree that they have a lot of room for improvement, it is already insane what they managed to build from scratch. They moved very far away from their comfort zone already, and I think some people don't seem ro realise that. On the quests themselves, I disagree that it's the worst of FFXIV all over again. If anything it's the best of those MMO-style side quest with some duds here and there. Most of them make you learn more info about the world, the characters, or the politics. And some just ask you to kill a Wyvern because a random leatherworker wants to make leather I guess. Those are trash. You learn nothing of value. But they are a minority of the quests. However, I guess the value someone perceives in those is subjective. Which is why they are optional. I teared up more than a couple times during side quests in the game. Those from the people in the Hideaway or side characters we meet on the MSQ are particularly good. So yeah, I think people are unfair to the side content.
It feels like people wanted a Witcher style Final Fantasy which was never what this was going to be jumping from main quest of main quest linearly is Final Fantasy I understand a lot of new fans were looking for something bigger but fans of the franchise have been asking for more focused game for a long time and that's what we got for sure.
@@arenkaiim not sure why people expect all sidequests to be meaningful anyway, theyre sidequests for a reason, only meant for tidbits of character or world building if anything at all. For me the only real issue was the lacking rewards.
I sort of agree with Jirard in the sense that if Square sees XVI as their big tentpole release, then that inherently means they're going to lean towards maximizing its appeal. The Asura's Wrath spectacles definitely feels like it's meant to pull people in and buy the game whenever they see it on twitch or ads.
The side quests went from delivering meals then you have Side quests about slavery, trade routes, rekindling friendship accepting one's place in society. The community you are in the alliance you have with the other hubs places So i went from the side quests are mid to holy shit they are great Tam there is a literally dialogue of people in the side quests people acknowledging you helping them
@@fredo3161 it definetly starts slow and simple so i totally understands the criticism at first but if it was a ratio i would say 70% of yhe side quests hits with how it builds the narrative, characters and it actually made me believe and give a shit about the people i live with in the hideaway and other hubs Quinten from lostwing side quests is great Eloise and theo side quests All patrons side quests means something to the world And the "ultimate weapon" you can only get after certain side quest line
@@jhank0cean i would say they start simple because i understand you can't open the side quests with hey find the missing puppy which turns out to be a young slave girl which happened to die due to exhaustion and starvation So i would say I'm totally happy with them started with delivering meals to the needy So yes you could totally say that's still weak but i see it as just conditioning the player into the harsh reality of the world they live in.
There’s also a clear progression in Clive’s attitude towards the side quests as the game goes on. Early on he doesn’t really care and by the end he’s personally invested and attached to those he’s helping. Which also ties into the core narrative of the game.
i just hope they find more narrative room for large troupes. As a ff 4-10 lover, it's really the cast that really take the narrative to the next level.
His was the only review to say Hogwarts Legacy was basically trash and I instantly respected him for that because I wasted $60 on that whack ass game listening to everyone else.
@@peen2804 And that’s your opinion. That review objectively details why that game isn’t anything special beyond being a $60 nostalgia trip. Take away that and you have nothing but a bland open world filled with checklist repetition quests and puddle deep progression mechanics.
I'm so torn on ff16. I adored the first 10 to 15 hours but after that the game started to feel a bit empty. I miss the ff10 leveling system and customization, I miss the huge party and strategy, I miss the enemy variety (though the bosses are dope). Overall, I think it has some excellent elements but its a bit like a 3d painting, look behind it or from different angles and the illusion is broken 😢
I agree - the best parts of the story are all at the start, whilst the best parts of combat aren't unlocked until the end with a lot of filler thrown in for no real reason... Overall a good game with a lot of potential, but in a world where FF7 Remake exists, this game just doesn't cut it.
I would be happy with a single player, no account needed, version of Final Fantasy XIV honestly and I’d love to more single player Final Fantasy from Creative Business Unit III in general
@@aytony4090 it will not have that. but they already provided snippets of the graphical upgrades, like shading and textures. But it will not have akin to FF16
It would be interesting but they would need to rethink the game design... Ff xvi has a good story but everything else is not very good unfortunately. I feel like they're so used to designing ff xiv that xvi feels like a super formulaic MMO as a single player game
@@aytony4090it'll probably get a graphics update at some point but nowhere near that level are you insane? Do you know how many assets are in ffxiv it's simply not feasible
@@aytony4090 Bro you did not just say the graphics update would be akin to 16. You must have at least once thought why there aren't any MMOs that can barely even come close to looking like current gen graphics. You don't need to be a game dev to use logic and think why this basically nearly impossible. Do you know how resource intensive MMOs can be? Hundreds of players clogging up the screen, the sheer options players have, the scale of the world, the amoung of interactivity and side features, the assets and coding they would have to do to make an MMO look triple A is...honestly nigh unachievable. Even a new MMO coming out today would struggle to maintain to to look like high fidelity last gen, much less current gen. That's why The Day Before blew up so much, it's an MMO that was advertised to "look" like a current gen/last gen game. But everyone knew it was too good to be true and alas it was. Tldr game dev is absurdly challenging and making a game the scale of an MMO look triple A would be a colossal undertaking most companies will practically never take.
I feel exactly like SkillUp when it comes to Fortnite. It's cool to hop on and see what they've done with the place, but no-build has kept me interested longer than I used to stick around.
1:00:53 what Lucy says here resonates so much with me being someone with a full time job and family of two kids. I don't want to have to learn a new full fledged system that I need to watch 6 UA-cam tutorials to understand every new game I pick up. Sometimes I just want to turn on a game and just play.
I think the division mainly boils down to whether or not you cared about the "lackluster" elements of it, if you don't care about the itemization being bare-bones, how the open world operates, and the sidequests then you'll see the game as a 9 or 10/10, however if those elements mean a lot to you or if you were expecting them to take a more active part in the game then you'll see the game as a 6 or a 7/10.
You shouldn’t have to overlook major parts of the game to enjoy it. A 10/10 game should be good through and through imo, not have half baked elements holding it back.
@@izumi4951 They aren't major parts, though. The game isn't made to be Monster Hunter, BOTW, and The Witcher 3 all in one. Expecting the game to excel in each aspect where the three mentioned games only do one is quite dumb. The game isn't meant to be explored like BOTW. It isn't meant to have gear like Monster Hunter. And the side quests aren't supposed to be like The Witcher 3. The game was explicitly stated to focus on Story, Characters, Combat, and Graphics. It excels at each one of those explicitly stated goals. Nobody complained about the crap side quests and graphics for BOTW. Nobody cared about the crap story in Monster Hunter World. And nobody cared about the crap gameplay for The Witcher 3. Yet people complain about the supporting features? Literally every game has supporting features that aren't as fleshed out as the main features. Apparently, that's only a problem for FF16. I swear, you people can't think for yourself.
This game definitely has things that should be the standard but also other things that maybe need a bit more oomph behind it. I just played 15 after finishing 16 to compare and 16 is sorely missing more companion stuff, I did 100% of the side quests in 16 and while I love the crew you build, it really falls flat when compared to past games and the crew that's built around your MC. Clive is by far one of Mt favourite MCs though, but that's just me being an adult and wanting an older protag
Active Time Lore is one of those things that should be implemented in story-heavy games. I know FFXIII has something similar called datalogs that you need to find information and explain the world but I don't think they were accessible in the middle of a cutscene (so the player wouldn't be completely confused mid-cutscene, they can just pull out ATL).
Yeah, agree with this. It really nails some things and then falls flat in a few areas. One other area I felt was a little weak was the villain was pretty boring. While Clive will be one of the top MCs in future "best FF MCs", the villain (for me at least) will be near the bottom for "best FF villains".
The big thing for me is the core gameplay, and FF15's was not there at any point. Sorry road trip bois, you're one of my favorite FF parties, but I will gladly take precisely polished and deliberately restrained faux-DMC combat over the inscrutable husk that is FF15's fights. It's so telling that being allowed to skip the giant superboss fight from the base game is an appreciated feature in 15. See also, Hi-Fi Rush (which is a fascinating companion to FF16, cuz' it has normal vidya levels around its fights).
Fun fact, FF15’s party gameplay was probably the worst in any FF back when it launched. You had no control over party members except sometimes a prompt would popup to let you do a team attack. It wasn’t until several paid dlcs and updates that they let you switch and directly play other party members. So ya its great if you waited like 2-4 years for them to fix it lol.
@@RougeMephilesClone ff15s core combat is worse kingdom hearts combat that feels like it wasn’t play tested properly and kh2 plays very well today compared to it today. Also 15 to me feels like it starts and ends too early everything before chapter 9 is nothing unless you care about the road trip and after you finish chapter 9 it doesn’t get good until insomnia and it’s not groundbreaking either
At around 1:h 26m Skillup's question about "Why good here and why bad there". That's like saying "Why do you like onions on your burger, but not on pizza?" When you make a recipie, the ingredients matter, and technique matters. You can use all the same ingredients, put them together differently and the results will be worlds apart.
I thought FF7R’s style was the future. It worked fluidly and felt really good, and blended old school FF with new school FF. I saw FFXVI and thought it would be similar. I enjoyed the latest title but that didn’t change my opinion one bit that FF7R was the superior game to me with a brighter future in its style
Well we are getting rebirth, which will be a continuation and expansion of that formula. I think theres no harm in trying to start a whole new style of FF games. They can always make the good old rpg party based remakes of previous FF's, and also continue with a line of action driven FF's for new audiences.
I mean to be fair XVI entered development before VIIR came out, so maybe FFXVII will be more like VII Remake with its systems and combat??? Although that’s me just guessing since the FF games are very different from one another (for the most part). Rebirth is coming out soon though and the combo attacks look so cool!
@escaflownia I still don't get your "it's not the full FF7 story = not worth full price" viewpoint. The game is bigger and better than most other full price games (= absolutely worth the asking price) and remake and rebirth took years to make and also tell a different story. And FF13 was also a trilogy = it's not even a new concept with FF. The PS5 intergrade upgrade was also free and the Yuffie DLC fairly priced. I also enjoyed FF7re and its combat way more in comparison (to FF16).
Agreed. I mostly loved FF7R combat style except that using items cost an ATB bar and the AI when controlling the team characters fighting without your control definitely needs tweaked. Overall I think FF16 is a step in the right direction with a great story and the combat was fun (despite being far too easy). But the game I feel does have quite a bit of flaws: Only having 1 character, how magic is used, lack of item and gear customization, not much of variety in enemies, not much of a reason to return and explore previous areas. I would give FF16 a 7.5/10.
Ignore the hate Skill Up. Your review was honest and appreciated. I share a lot of your concerns with the core gameplay loop and am sad to see the lack of depth.
@@Beldaross I'm talking about the core gameplay loop of switching between icons and bursting damage during stagger. It's a fine mechanic but is a bit shallow when it's the only mechanic. No one said anything about button mashing, if you had played the game you would understand
I do hope the next Final Fantasy games continue to allow the Summons to be playable. The ifrit battles and the spectacle of them was some of the coolest and most fun parts of the game. I much prefer this treatment of summons over the previous games. And on final fantasy mode the fights such as titan can actually be semi difficult due to how hard they hit with your very limited heals making them even more fun to do.
They were so fluff. I much prefer the one and done previous games use of summons. Come in, do big damage and leave. The bahamut and titan fights were laughable, I wanted them to end quickly and they just kept going. Such a drag, Im glad you liked them but I reaaallly dont want this flashy QTE stuff to be the future of the franchise.
This is my first Final Fantasy that I’ve really got into. Probably one of the longest games I ever going to beat too . I’m at the 50 hour mark and absolutely just loving it . Sure some of the side quest do drag but the combat is awesome and I love the main story.
i have been looking for a closure to '16', i found it here. all four of them balanced out the highs and lows of 16, summarized what i have felt about 16 and gave me more. i am now closing my 16 journey with friends per second. thankyou.
I greatly enjoyed this version. And I’m old enough to have played every FF. (I was there when the mouse was announced). I do see how you see that it’s not the same. As it clearly isn’t. But I found this game as a great cinematic experience in the form of a game. But the difficulty ramp up in Final Fantasy mode also kicks things up a notch.
i find that it is so reductive to talk about a new entry not being "the same as before' ff16 is great. yes it has flaws but it is great. i dont see why it is being lambasted for not being "final fantasy", when god of war 2018 was praised for doing the exact same thing. i enjoyed both the og god of war series and the dad of boi version. its such a dumb argument to say "its not what i wanted so it is bad" instead of "its not what i wanted so i dont like it"
@arihantjain664 thank you. So much of the criticism (lots of it legitimate!) seems to hide behind "it doesn't have the ff identity". I've played nearly every final fantasy game and spinoff excepting mobile games. Tell me what unifying thread of identity exists between ff2, 12 ZA and type 0 that is lost in 16. There isn't one. I may like 16, but I have plenty of criticisms for it - lack of party feel, insufficient character development outside of Clive, no meaningful gear system, tacked on shoddy crafting system. But at this point I'm starting to think that the "it doesn't FEEL like the final fantasy series" is a cop-out that relies on a general ignorance of the viewer to only have played a few FF games and be forced to accept the concept at face value. The only consistent thing I can say about FF in the last 30 years is that it consistently has an identity crisis with every major release. In that regards, 16 is right on the mark.
@joshuayung5158 the first 2 or 3 things you listed were unifying threads of previous final fantasy games... There's been spinoff games that do other weird things but the mainline games have always had that formula.
Love the podcast and it is definitely right to bring your expectations into reviews. Especially for series entries. Series create a DNA for what their games are. It's fine to change that DNA but it will be polarising. I think the same is true for developers, look at the conversation about Starfield, it's as much about comparing it to what Bethesda has done before as the game itself and that will be unavoidable in reviews. Especially for huge releases
Oh man I've never clicked a notification so fast, mainly to watch the FF16 discussion. Loved hearing everyone's thoughts but man it kills me that you guys don't have anyone on the show who is currently playing a lot of FF14 because I think knowing that game in its current Endwalker state gives so much insight into the way CBU3 handled FF16. I thought your comments about it feeling like an MMO team developed it is spot on, but I think there are even more connections to be talked about, especially when contrasted with how CBU3 has changed FF14 over time. I thought that sort of perspective would've been SO useful to have during your big conversation about expectations and context, because from the perspective of the Final Franchise as a whole, FF16 changes so much, but when compared to current FF14, it's absolutely a similar formula and philosophy. And ultimately that's been the big split between the people I know who have played or are playing 16: all the FF14 players and relatively new fans are loving it, while the more traditional and longtime fans of Final Fantasy are far more critical of it. More than any other game released in the last few years I've loved the discussion about this game because I think Final Fantasy is such a unique series in how it means so many different things to so many different people. You titled the show asking if FF16 should be the future, but I think the real question you have to begin with is "What is Final Fantasy?" It's such an interesting topic because I don't think even Square Enix have a definitive answer to that. Anyway, great podcast. Looking forward to listening to the next 1000 episodes in between now and FF17's release, lol.
Feel the opposite about 14. I’m a 14 fan from the beginning. I’ve seen how yoship and his team have changed it over the years. I love the story a lot. However, that doesn’t make me auto like 16. Rather it allows me to see the flaws in it caused specifically by yoship’s approach to design.
@@Khaoticsuccubus That's fair, and it would probably be more accurate to say that most people who *currently* love FF14 also love 16. I actually have some friends such as yourself who were big into the game but either don't play anymore or only resubscribe every once in awhile to do MSQ. And it just goes to show that even within the same Final Fantasy game fans can have different opinions.
SkillUp (Ralpha) in his review mentioned a lot of ff14 parallels he has played a lot of ff14 even if not playing it currently. He compared it a lot generally to the MSQ of ff14.
@@nattobaby In FF14 the main meat of the game is through the MSQ and major side quest chains are built on the pillars of Dialogue, petty boring overworld quests, and big pieces of content like dungeons, raids, and trials. FF16 is very similar except the last part is replaced with action combat and eikon battles. It's a formula I personally really like but is definitely not too everyone's taste. "Collect 10 Bear Asses" is a meme for a reason and not everyone is forgiving of that being the gameplay inbetween the actual high points.
Final Fantasy 16 was my Final Fantasy gateway, Im just happy that I get to finally a explore a new game series that I kept bouncing off. Im glad people enjoy this game and am happy for other people who may enjoy this game the same way I do, but yes the criticism are def valid. But hey, if you like a game, then dont let anyone take that from you, games are meant to be enjoyed, and your enjoyment of those games doesnt have to be validated by anyone but you!! Love the content Ralph!!!
That's the problem. Is a FF game for non Ff fans or haters of the previous titles. I play it because I'm a long time action game fan not because it is a new FF game. I am even a greater RPG fan than normal hack slash. There was a time when we didn't have to choose between one or the other but played both and be done with it. What they're doing for me stupid. They lack confidence.
Its a great one! Final fantasy at its core is about breaking a cycle within the world that youre playing in. In final fantasy 16s case, its about breaking the cycle of the mother crystals. As a final fantasy fan for 20 years I believe every single final fantasy game is a final fantasy game at its core. The combat has been continuously changing since final fantasy 11 came out in 2002, so in my own opinion complaining about a change in combat is old news, and the people who are complaining need to go to a retirement home because its as if they forget that the combat changes in each and every single entry. Nobody can tell me otherwise, and nobody should tell you otherwise. This is a wonderful entry in the franchise!
@@808Slush I Don’t want to gatekeeping FF but those who say this one isn’t FF I don’t think really played the game or paid attention to it. I get FF vibes all over the place.
@@AshTreeDwellerthat isnt gatekeeping at all in my opinion. This is a brilliant entry in the franchise for real. Im happy that new fans and old fans can enjoy it. Some of my friends are getting into final fantasy because of it
Absolutely loved this episode. As someone who’s disagreed fervently with Ralph on many a title, I always come back to him because he’s a quality reviewer who explains why he arrives at the conclusion he comes to, even if it’s not one that i share
Keep everything FFXVI had but add controllable Party/Deeper RPG Mechanics and Optional dungeons to encourage exploration. FFXVI has laid a VERY GOOD solid foundation for future final fantasy titles. Clives Free Control/Open Linear Nature/Worldbuilding and Unique bombastic boss battles were top notch. Final Fantasy XVI brought that feeling of Final Fantasy and turned it up to 11. Story/Crystals/World/Boss Fights/Worldbuilding etc but left what made FF such a unique game in design, Minigames/Playable Party/Optional Dungeons etc those quirks.
I feel like this is one of the more fair takes on the game in general. I think with the last few games they've been experimenting with how to make the action combat feel good, and they nailed it with FFXVI. Now I'd like to see delve deeper into the RPG aspects. Some dungeons to explore, perhaps even some maps we wouldn't go to without sidequests, more unique materials from monsters in the field to make new weapons/gear. Thinking about it, I think I'd be pretty happy with some more side content, character customization, party customization and then essentially the addition of Monster Hunter to the foundations they laid out. Notorious Enemies/Hunts give special material, make unique gear
To add to this please keep the same level of quality in both voice acting and cutscene direction. These two things stood out the most for me in FF16 and to me these are probably the best VA performances and cutscenes ever done in a FF game and miles ahead of most JRPGs. Really hope that Square recognizes this and continues to implement the same practices in all their future games. From what I understand they did the script in English first before translating back to japanese, which might be a risky move for JP fans, but I think it was a great idea that helped give much more life to all the characters.
Honestly, FF16 for me personally, I didn't like the combat on minor enemies but was great on bosses. Actively trying to not get into engagements with the wolves,bugs etc felt like a chore. No enemy variety. But the story, boss battles and cinematic are amazing. The customisation on weapons were crap aswell. That's my 2 cents anyway. I can see it getting GOTY though. Edit: just to add, it felt like it was long cutscene-small combat section-long cutscene-boss battle rinse and repeat.
The minor enemy fights are so bad it’s hard to believe this is actually a big budget title at times. I agree though, it really shines during some of the bigger battles.
FF16 will probably be nominated for GOTY, but it's highly unlikely it will win GOTY, as Zelda, Starfield, Spiderman 2, or RE4 Remake will end up winning GOTY (probably Zelda tbh).
Dion does fucking rule and I had the same takeaway. They really had the bones of an incredible Final Fantasy party and they just left that on the table
No one mentioned the real reason why FF16 is the way forward: No excessive anime noises injected into speech patterns! No grunts, sighs, “uhs”, “huhs”, “mmms” or growls filling every possible moment of silence Just really good dialog and voice acting that is far more representative of actual human speech. It’s brilliant!
The “we are divided” thumbnail is what I was assuming about the upcoming podcast. Annnnd I was excited to see/hear it! But I’m excited to hear the discussion (IN A POSITIVE WAY)
@@axelstone3131just i know that you give some game 10/10 that many don't think so he gave it that because that he feel like. Go somewhere if cant handled people enjoying things you don't like or hate.
I'm waiting for Final Fantasy Cid, the spin off title that takes the first 10 games and explores them as a multiverse from the perspective of Cid, travelling through time meeting various other Cids, in his quest to track down and understand the true goal of Gilgamesh, who is also charing through the multiverse looking for ultimate weapons. If I thibk hard enough I might manifest it.
It feels like ralph has finally been hit with what people of other franchises (that he reviewed and loved) felt. People asked the same question about god of war,prey,ff7r's story,yakuza 7 and so on. I think devs should be allowed to make what ever game they want to make and limiting them to the legacy of the title is just creative wall that shouldn't exist. I would have loved to see his review if the game wasn't called final fantasy or like the other games i just mentioned, his review without any experience from past ff titles
1:17:19 YES! That quote (or the spirit of it) seems to stick with me and just seems like such good advice. As the crew was talking my mind was going to that quote. For a dev, it is more important for a critic to say "I thought the combat was missing something" than "The combat should have done this". The latter is important to the potential player because it gives a hint of your own taste and it can make gor interesting discussion. That said, I did think while I was playing FF16 that it would be cool if the Eikons power could fuse. Though I think that may have taken away from story elements.
This exactly. I love this one but by no means do I expect future games to be exactly like it. And I’m quite sure SE doesn’t intend the next one to be exactly like it either.
Ralph my boy just wanted to say your review was great and don’t take the backlash to heart! I fundamentally disagree with you on FF16 and still really enjoyed and appreciated your review. As a criticism/rhetoric nerd I love conversations about this kind of thing. I actually enjoy and thrive off of hearing different opinions on art. Whether I agree or not it gives me a window into the perspective of someone else and I dig that. Cheers man!
It was but honestly, I just want a good ol turnbased release. Doesn’t have to be all of them, just give me one. If persona can do it so can final fantasy.
I think they don’t have the confidence in making a modern turnbase ff because there has to be something else to oomph it up and you know there going to add a auto battle option which would break the game like it does the pixel remaster. And inherently I think a turnbase one probably wouldn’t be as exciting as something more flashy because it might look awkward with the realistic looking characters. Old ff games were only turnbase because of constraints at the time and your supposed to imagine them actually brawling
@@zeromagnum2811 do you think square would able to create a cutting edge turnbase system because i think squaresoft could but I don’t think enix nowadays could and also ffs identity is a lil different and also persona has always been way more strategic then ff just based off the weakness system and aswell persona combat is elevated so much by it’s style an ui so if they do that they would have to nail that
You guys walk the line of serious takes of gaming and the industry and a bantering/jokey show. A perfect for this inherently silly pastime that we nevertheless all love dearly.
I’ve never played a Final Fantasy game before FFXVI. The demo convinced me to give it a chance and I absolutely love the final game. This is what the developers intended, and it seems like they succeeded.
Fortress in Melbourne is amazing. Highly recommend! You can rent board games. You can rent a booth with a console for gaming nights. And then get your drinks & food served to you? 🎉
I love Final Fantasy and I love Devil May Cry, so 16 has been so much fun. Experimenting new powers and upping the combo is a blast. I always admire each FF's different gameplay direction that I can't wait to see what's next.
To keep this short I’m really liking ff16 so far, the biggest hilight being the fast paced combat and linear story, it’s mature as it can be for ff, tho rpg elements are underwhelming especially the charms and weapons, however I feel like it’s a strong base for improvement and ff’s new direction Plus the side missions could be better
People talking about the introductory side quests and base all the side quests on those seem to forget that the first sidequests are there as an introduction to how side quests function. They represent function, not format. Some of the later side quests provide huge world building and develops the cast and side characters alot.
How is ff16 the future of the franchise when every single ff main line game has always been different from the last ? I respect you guys but I don’t get the whole ff16 isn’t final fantasy argument.
This discourse reminds me of similar sentiments people had when Breath of the Wild came out - and again recently with Tears of the Kingdom. In a lot of ways the two games were BIG departures formulaically from what previous Zelda games had already established, and because of that BotW/TotK wound up not really resonating with a big chunk of the franchise's fanbase. I still respect the hell out of those two games and FFXVI to boot because rather than iterating on the same formula from past games, the devs tried something NEW here to try and inspire GROWTH - growth in a new audience and growth in what these games could ultimately achieve.
Zelda still stayed true to its fundamental core of exploration and puzzle solving, it just did so in a wildly different and more open fashion. FF is trying to be a whole different genre of game: stylized action hero. It's like if Resident Evil decided to become a match 3 puzzle game franchise permanently for its mainline entries.
@@travisbplankbotw/totk is actually innovative tho that's the thing. 16 isn't innovative in the slightest it doesn't even do what other action games such as DMC or bayo do well
@@kannanshrinivasan6984 Totally agreed. That's why BotW managed to supplant Ocarina of Time as my favorite Zelda while I haven't enjoyed a Final Fantasy in decades. They're not innovating and they've lost their core. They have no identity and now they're just making mediocre versions of other developers' games. Kinda funny how Nintendo is like "what if we take everything from the previous game and give them vehicle building, weapon fusing, and simplistic party members" and Final Fantasy is like "what if we take away party members, take away equipment, take away exploration and changed to a whole different genre?" Hate these arguments about "innovation". Like, what innovations are these people talking about? Edgelords dropping F-bombs?
@@kannanshrinivasan6984botw was not innovating lol. its literally just open world survival elements that have been done to death. That may be new to zelda but its nothing new to gaming.
@@travisbplankWell first off there is still equipment and exploration. Don’t know where you got that there isn’t. Second, it does innovate in terms of seamlessness in a very highly graphically detailed game. Nearly all cutscenes aren’t even actual cutscenes. They’re rendered in engine, and everything transitions from scene to gameplay nearly seamlessly. With as big as some fights get, and as highly detailed as it is, that’s a huge accomplishment that pretty much no other game has achieved. And the few times there is obvious loading, it’s a few seconds of black screen.
I would be 100% here for a Remedy Supernatural game, thank you Tam for mentioning that idea. A legitimate game based on the show Supernatural would be so heck’n cool!
I was thinking about this upon seeing Synapse for PSVR2: I think an Inception VR game that either worked around Nolans original story or was set in the world he created would be fascinating! For me personally a game like that could be a VR system seller?
There was a time when Final Fantasy was my favorite series(6-12) They were unique and really its own genre. Whether it was the music, story, characters, jobs, magic, eidolons/summons, politics, hidden bosses/items, etc. You knew it was a Final Fantasy game. 15 and 16 to me, are great games in their own rights, I see why people love them. They remind me of Devil May Cry, Kingdom Hearts, Bayonetta etc. Great action games. But they don't remind me of Final Fantasy. The side quests also remind me of FF14, which I truly loved as an online game. If I wanted to play these types of games however, I would play their respected titles. When I want to play a Final Fantasy game, I'm looking for that iconic Final Fantasy experience. I grew up in an age when Final Fantasy wasn't an action RPG, it was a turn based RPG. It wasn't a thriller, it was a fantastical romance in a way. Stories of characters starting as flawed thieves or rogues, mercenaries etc, eventually meeting a fated companion and spiraling into what seemed like a series of events that had them facing divinity, in order to overcome some very real emotions and hardships that by the end of the game, had players at the edge of their seat to see if all that struggle was worth it in the end. Couple that with some excellent plot twists, villains etc. and it was a helluva ride when the credits roll. These last two titles, to me, seem like a direction away from a heartfelt story rich RPG that made Final Fantasy iconic, and truly able to stand on its own from other titles. Which is unfortunate to someone who counts Final Fantasy 6-12 as some of their favorited games ever played. I understand that I' m a 90's gamer and the series is trying to reinvent themselves for younger audiences. In my opinion, it's unfortunate that it has to try and make a story rich RPG experience like a flashy action game in order to capture that relevance, when it had something truly unique and something that I believe would've offered modern gamers something just as engaging as it did to those of us who fondly remember playing 7 for the first time, or 8 etc. I'm glad to see that players are still enjoying Final Fantasy after all these years, it just makes me sad to see what had to be sacrificed. As for me, this will probably be my last Final Fantasy game as I'm personally not a fan of their ongoing direction. All the best to those having a blast with it though. At the end of the day, it's just a game, and meant to be enjoyed. Cheers!
I think nostalgia blinds you to an insane degree. The story is the same it has always been, good characters, and crazy magics and crystals, tied to deeper meanings like kingdoms and ecological disasters. FF16 is final fantasy, it just isn’t an RPG. You need to make that distinction for yourself
@@HiLoMusicWell I think you guys are the ones that are blinded by good graphics, cinematic (more a movie with FFXIV side quests xd) and director who is now venerated but okey. What you just mentioned about FF games is just something that everybody knows but it is different now, now story is much more mature some jokes or funny moments are not here due to that, there isn't as many or as good characters, yes they have what previous FF had but the bond for most of them is lacking due to the game being more like GofW or DMC like before the final battle they had a vendor guy join in because they didn't have enough people to make a crowd, rest of what you said is there, magic and kingdoms is what fantasies are for xd.
@@Tyanus2 cinematics and presentation are incredible, much like every single FF before it - but no, the actual game is great, the combat is fun, the music is phenomenal, the bosses and concepts are as pure final fantasy as final fantasy can be, it’s not just me being blinded by pretty graphics. I don’t think the game is perfect, but people walking around judging it as this sub-adequate project, this sub-adequate final fantasy game, it’s just some stupid predisposed agenda.
@@Tyanus2theres a lot of funny moments, maybe the game is so mature that you didnt catch the jokes? Or maybe you need characters to laugh so you know when a joke was made?
I love how mention all the things that make each ff unique except the combat. Sure they were mostly turn based but the combat changed and evolved with each game. Making it an action game is no different. Ff16 is still a unique ff.
We should take the time to acknowledge Tam’s value to the group. His ability to articulate his thoughts in a comprehensible way is equal to that of SkillUp, especially when it’s comes to counter points made by the others. Outside of his thoughts about Harry Potter at the beginning of the episode he has a new fan in me 👍
I have to agree with Tam. KH2 is one of my favorite games ever, 100% on PS2, and I loved 2.8 and 3 and I'm very excited for 4. But let's not even act like the writing is good. They made the best that they could, but the way everything was attempted to be finished in KH3 was really reaching across a lot of angles, and not really too many got resolved. Very convenient plot points. Good episode
I think a lot of Ralph’s criticisms fall into a matter of subjectivity while he exposits them aa objectivity. He said it quite clearly at around 57:00 , ‘if these games were more like a Horizon or god of war’, and that’s where I think his critiques fall apart. The game isn’t trying to be a horizon or god of war, just because it’s pretty doesn’t mean it has to be every Sony block buster ever. It isn’t interested in doing that.
i love the fact square enix is out there to reinvent the wheel and theyre bold enough to risk their future i do hope they continue elevate the freedom of their developers creative desire.
What did they re-invent? They very boldly wanted to make DmC-like combat, but failed to make it quite as engaging. Gameplay-wise pretty much all apsects have been done better in recent years, especially exploration, quest design, level design and pacing. Did we play different games?
I’m about halfway thru XVI, and I get the criticism, but wow I adore my time with it so far. Is it very cutscene heavy? Does the pace suffer for it? Do the side quests kinda suck? Yeah. But the characters, the story, the combat, it all makes me so excited to play it. I haven’t been this excited to play a game in so long. I can’t wait to get to the next boss fight cuz the combat is so addictive.
I enjoyed the game very much. Loved the ending. I do kinda miss the whole party aspect. Like it would be cool to get to control Gavin, Mid, Jill, Torgal, Byron ect. as party members.
I think if they are going to make a game with the name Final Fantasy, it is completely fair that people come with expectations of prior installments and compare to those versions of the game. But I think we also need to be mindful that we aren't just reviewing against the golden age of Final Fantasy, but some of the less favourable titles too. If they want to make a game that breaks from the core tenets of the game genre and make a smaller focused action adventure game, that's fine but maybe don't make it a core numbered entry into the franchise. Perhaps they could put a spin on the title like ' Final Fantasy Beyond' like what they did with Tactics.
comes with its own evil too. you get the shitfling on whether the game is mainline or not and why so much dev time is being wasted on this spin off. i remember people were initially shitting on Mh world because it wasnt MH 6
fun fact: at disney world they have a machine that 3D scans performers and can tell you exactly which characters they have the proportions to play. There's also a little wiggle room; for example, the taller performers playing princesses wear shorter heels and the shorter ones wear taller heels. You also might have someone playing Aurora one day and Belle the next. I also never met a performer who wasn't extremely nice backstage
Dream adaptation to a video game: FireFly. (Somthing along the lines of Red Dead in space, maybe a splash of MadMax in the ship combat and customization)
I’m a huge fanboy for final fantasy that I will admit and I try to give all final fantasy games a chance and honestly I enjoyed FF16 my all time favorite will Be FF4 and I do like the turn base strategy that comes with some FF games but I did like what they did with 16
As someone who has played FF since early 90s, I dont get this strategy comment. There's not much strategy. Either abilities were tied to jobs, equipment/weapons or materia. Aside from the stat buffs via sphere grid in 10, almost all had flat stat buffs. Ailments you had to keep track of. As for ATB, you could always set to wait but there was never a "let me sit here forever and just think" except for 7,8,9,10 to a small degree. Action real time combat has ALWAYS been the vibe Square has tried to keep pushing, and after advent children they chased the "look and feel" of the continuous flashy combat that FF7 Advent Children depicted. I do agree turn based is great but it's in no way shape or form this ULTIMATE strategy. FFs do not have min-maxed stats or heavy depth around builds like a pen n paper, souls like or other Western RPGs especially Morrowind.
@slippynipz I've played almost every single final fantasy game, even crystal chronicles, type 0, and the strategy in the SNES era really often just boiled down to self-buff, use elemental weakness, and have some healing or ailment protection on hand while you wail on the boss. It certainly wasn't the rocket surgery a lot of people seem to think it was.
@@joshuayung5158 yeah man, I don't get the complaint and I love turn based. They just want to whine and be cavalier against change. Which is what FF is built on.
I'm so glad I wasn't the only one to make the comparison between Final Fantasy 16 and Asura's Wrath. Jake's just over here saying what we're all thinking.
yes, I this is a better direction of the franchise (btw it has always followed this direction of moving forward, each ff is different, skill up sounds like he has only played ff7). your nostalgia is catered by games like ff7 remake, and pixel remasters.
Very inspiring to listen to you guys talking about the reviewing process. Started my own endeavour not too long ago and love you guys's perspective on it. 🎉
Love seeing Ralph talk about the ROG Ally. I’ve been wanting a Steam Deck for months, started seeing more and more hype and promise about the Ally, pre-ordered it and got it release day, and I’ve been super happy with it since.
Biggest divide between videogame reviewers and regular people is you cruise through games with deadlines, play them with another mindset (what am I gonna say about it and how I make it original and/or interesting) and you play A LOT of games. Most users make a choice about what to play and stick to it, in a more relaxed way and less judgemental. A videogame being long is not so bad anymore because it makes it last more, "boring" quests are not so much of a problem because they serve the purpose of killing time and can be done while listening to a podcast or similar, etc. A similar thin occurs with streamers. They get annoyed with characters talking too much because they need to cram their personalities on top of the gameplay, but most people just play those kind of single player games alone and in silence.
Harry Potter is extremely fun if you have any affinity for Britain’s legendary actors, famous British locations both urban and rural, any love for Charles Dickens or Agatha Christie, experience of Church or boarding school etc. HP offers an idealised and stereotypical Britain which is why it’s internationally popular. Plus, how can you not like big man Dobby?
If they want to use the final fantasy name to market/sell a game, expectations are completely fair. If you want a completely clean slate call it something else
Thanks to Squarespace for sponsoring the video. If you want to set up your own website (and get a discount while doing it), hit this link for more info: www.squarespace.com/skillup
For a second I thought you meant square Enix, lol
Should Final Fantasy XVI be the future of the franchise? There are several other thousands of things to worry about than Final Fantasy.
First half of FFXVI was written as an anime, second half was a final fantasy story.
It may be a good game. But i wouldnt want my 8 yr old self to play it. This just isnt the type of game i grew up with. So obsess3d with makin it all look like a movie. They forgot to make a game thats supposed to make kids fall iin love with rpgs
I mean mixin mmos an devil may cry what are they smokin. Crack from the looks of it
Wish I was here for this podcast - had an emergency I had to take care of.
I want to have your children
Missed ya homie, I’d like to hear your thoughts on ff16
🫡 we love you
We love you!
Hope everything is alright. You’re an integral part of FPS.
My favourite part of your reviews, Jake included. Is that they aren't numbered. I value opinions more than numbers.
I think all reviews should be like this, but that's idealistic of me.
I will always remenber that one mario review IGN made where the guy clearly didnt like the game with is fine and yet he still gave it a good grade at the end
One thing that my ears caught was tam's line about how most side quests dont make an impact on Clive as a character but truthfully there are a lot of side quests that get lost in the myriads of green icons like Jill's sidequest priceless which could potentially change even your interpretation of the ending or the hypocrates one with the quill . Most people that dont like the ending skipped those side quests because of side quest fatigue . I feel like the more personal ones could have been integrated much better
If you're keeping up with everything as it comes up, around the time you hit 65%-70%, the side quests are so exponentially better than the early ones. The Act 2 side quests are almost all filler, I agree with that completely, but they're nothing akin to that by end game.
@@anthonyhernandez1609there was a lot of good lore wym the torgal one was heart wrenching
Yeah games being overstuffed is such a common problem. Like in Far Cry 6 - 80% of the writing is crap, and 20% is good. If they had just trimmed down how much is in the game they could have focused on the good stuff.
I feel that, even though the side quests are not as involved as something like Witcher 3 or an obsidian/Bioware rpg, most of them are really interesting/involved with the character development and world building. More than most side quests in previous final fantasy games.
Gameplay wise too. I think the combat is more complex than people give it credit. It's not devil may cry by a long shot, but I don't think it needs to be.
I get it, the game has flaws, but I've been absolutely enjoying it, and taking my time with it (something I noticed with elden ring too, people complaining it was too long after finishing it in a couple of weeks, while it took me the best part of a year to get to the end).
I guess I'll see what the ending is like, but so far, it's only gotten better since I started.
Do you think he did all the side quests? i had a feeling by the way he talked about them that maybe he didn’t complete all of them? (I could be wrong, but the way he says they don’t create a sense of community when I literally felt the inverse of that at the end of the game, after completing all of them though).
1:23:39 There are visible changes to the game world like the kids fighting w paper swords in FFVII remake within Final Fantasy XVI as well after some of the side quests. One saw the visible re-population of Eastpool, and another even saw a whole Village wiped out after being flooded with aether.
I agree, they said that but you can clearly see some of them didn’t do all the side quest which is very odd if you are comparing both games side quests (7R has way less side quests than this though, but also 16 has some very badish mmoish sidequest), but it would be better if some say that they have not done all of the side quest at least because the thing for me is that 15% of the last side quest on xvi managed to deliver compelling and wholesome stories while also having better pacing and better feeling of improving the hideaway community, without doing some of the side quest even the ending interpretation of the game changes.
@@TheTinyTimmyTimTim the + sign only exist because is the literar same design they used for XIV quests, on XIV + blue sign quest are some content unlocks (jobs, dungeons, raids and etc).
I would honestly say that both suck on the side quest side, but some kids playing with a fake buster sword is such a change to the world? How different is that to see all the npc you saved on the hideaway? He didn’t do the quests that’s what I got from the conversation but he compared both like he did all of them, typical journalism fake knowledge.
@@Siul_987 Found the soy boy.
@@Menorahdude ?
Yeah he's either lying or didn't play the game as multiple parts of the World and characters along with npcs are changed over the span of the game through main quest alone not even to mention side quests. NorthReach, Eastpool, hell even your own hideaway changes and the people too all have different dialogue and respond to you over time and how you have interacted with them before. The Village you first come across Gav, with Quentin? It completely changes by the end of the game and that change is all throughout the game. These guys really in this video clearly didn't play the game and watched cutscenes on UA-cam to get the idea of the story.
I’m about 25, 30 hours in FFXVI and have done most of the side content in conjunction with the main quests and so far I can’t shake the feeling that xvi plays like a single player ffxiv. You go from MSQ to MSQ in XIV and occasionally it lands you to fight a boss that is generally an epic fight with awesome music. The stuff in between feels empty in both XIV and XVI. There’s also things like handing over items to NPCs and the general stiffness of the camera angles in cutscenes that bear an uncanny resemblance to XIV. I mean it makes sense since the devs are the same but I guess a part of me wishes that they could step out of that comfort zone.
exactly what I felt. The highlights were amazing, but everything in between was the worst of FF14 all over again.
Yeah those camera cuts hurt a lot for some reason. For me I think it could be the camera and animations of characters as you talk to them. The repetition and lack of meaningful rewards doesn't help. It reminds me of the stiff animations of characters in Horizon Zero Dawn. Frozen Wilds absolutely stepped up in that department and I noticed the difference immediately. I really could feel the MMO in the game.
While I agree that they have a lot of room for improvement, it is already insane what they managed to build from scratch.
They moved very far away from their comfort zone already, and I think some people don't seem ro realise that.
On the quests themselves, I disagree that it's the worst of FFXIV all over again.
If anything it's the best of those MMO-style side quest with some duds here and there. Most of them make you learn more info about the world, the characters, or the politics.
And some just ask you to kill a Wyvern because a random leatherworker wants to make leather I guess. Those are trash. You learn nothing of value.
But they are a minority of the quests.
However, I guess the value someone perceives in those is subjective.
Which is why they are optional.
I teared up more than a couple times during side quests in the game. Those from the people in the Hideaway or side characters we meet on the MSQ are particularly good.
So yeah, I think people are unfair to the side content.
It feels like people wanted a Witcher style Final Fantasy which was never what this was going to be jumping from main quest of main quest linearly is Final Fantasy I understand a lot of new fans were looking for something bigger but fans of the franchise have been asking for more focused game for a long time and that's what we got for sure.
@@arenkaiim not sure why people expect all sidequests to be meaningful anyway, theyre sidequests for a reason, only meant for tidbits of character or world building if anything at all. For me the only real issue was the lacking rewards.
I sort of agree with Jirard in the sense that if Square sees XVI as their big tentpole release, then that inherently means they're going to lean towards maximizing its appeal. The Asura's Wrath spectacles definitely feels like it's meant to pull people in and buy the game whenever they see it on twitch or ads.
I just wanted to say that I fucking love this podcast. Thank you for making it
Ignoring part where they talk over each other. It's kinda awkward at times when someone is still talking and then someone just talk over them.
The side quests went from delivering meals then you have Side quests about slavery, trade routes, rekindling friendship accepting one's place in society. The community you are in the alliance you have with the other hubs places
So i went from the side quests are mid to holy shit they are great
Tam there is a literally dialogue of people in the side quests people acknowledging you helping them
I ended up skipping the lot of them. Apparently I was wrong. Will hit on second play.
Did you feel like they were setup poorly? Like bad ones in front and good ones at the end instead of a solid balance.
@@fredo3161 it definetly starts slow and simple so i totally understands the criticism at first but if it was a ratio i would say 70% of yhe side quests hits with how it builds the narrative, characters and it actually made me believe and give a shit about the people i live with in the hideaway and other hubs
Quinten from lostwing side quests is great
Eloise and theo side quests
All patrons side quests means something to the world
And the "ultimate weapon" you can only get after certain side quest line
@@jhank0cean i would say they start simple because i understand you can't open the side quests with hey find the missing puppy which turns out to be a young slave girl which happened to die due to exhaustion and starvation
So i would say I'm totally happy with them started with delivering meals to the needy
So yes you could totally say that's still weak but i see it as just conditioning the player into the harsh reality of the world they live in.
There’s also a clear progression in Clive’s attitude towards the side quests as the game goes on. Early on he doesn’t really care and by the end he’s personally invested and attached to those he’s helping. Which also ties into the core narrative of the game.
i just hope they find more narrative room for large troupes. As a ff 4-10 lover, it's really the cast that really take the narrative to the next level.
As someones who's relatively new to the series, I agree
The Incompletionist is an agent of chaos and I love it!
His was the only review to say Hogwarts Legacy was basically trash and I instantly respected him for that because I wasted $60 on that whack ass game listening to everyone else.
@@jlb4685that’s not respect, that’s simply having your opinion validated
@@jlb4685nice sample size 😅.
@@peen2804 And that’s your opinion. That review objectively details why that game isn’t anything special beyond being a $60 nostalgia trip. Take away that and you have nothing but a bland open world filled with checklist repetition quests and puddle deep progression mechanics.
mans really said “peter parker shooting ropes” less than 4 minutes in 😭 I love him
I'm so torn on ff16. I adored the first 10 to 15 hours but after that the game started to feel a bit empty. I miss the ff10 leveling system and customization, I miss the huge party and strategy, I miss the enemy variety (though the bosses are dope). Overall, I think it has some excellent elements but its a bit like a 3d painting, look behind it or from different angles and the illusion is broken 😢
I agree - the best parts of the story are all at the start, whilst the best parts of combat aren't unlocked until the end with a lot of filler thrown in for no real reason...
Overall a good game with a lot of potential, but in a world where FF7 Remake exists, this game just doesn't cut it.
I’m happy that Animorphs continue to be referenced. My favorite book series as a kid
I would be happy with a single player, no account needed, version of Final Fantasy XIV honestly and I’d love to more single player Final Fantasy from Creative Business Unit III in general
The general consensus is that FF14 is getting a massive graphics update to be akin to FF16 which will then make it exclusive to PS5 and PC.
@@aytony4090 it will not have that. but they already provided snippets of the graphical upgrades, like shading and textures. But it will not have akin to FF16
It would be interesting but they would need to rethink the game design... Ff xvi has a good story but everything else is not very good unfortunately. I feel like they're so used to designing ff xiv that xvi feels like a super formulaic MMO as a single player game
@@aytony4090it'll probably get a graphics update at some point but nowhere near that level are you insane? Do you know how many assets are in ffxiv it's simply not feasible
@@aytony4090 Bro you did not just say the graphics update would be akin to 16. You must have at least once thought why there aren't any MMOs that can barely even come close to looking like current gen graphics. You don't need to be a game dev to use logic and think why this basically nearly impossible. Do you know how resource intensive MMOs can be? Hundreds of players clogging up the screen, the sheer options players have, the scale of the world, the amoung of interactivity and side features, the assets and coding they would have to do to make an MMO look triple A is...honestly nigh unachievable. Even a new MMO coming out today would struggle to maintain to to look like high fidelity last gen, much less current gen. That's why The Day Before blew up so much, it's an MMO that was advertised to "look" like a current gen/last gen game. But everyone knew it was too good to be true and alas it was. Tldr game dev is absurdly challenging and making a game the scale of an MMO look triple A would be a colossal undertaking most companies will practically never take.
I feel exactly like SkillUp when it comes to Fortnite. It's cool to hop on and see what they've done with the place, but no-build has kept me interested longer than I used to stick around.
We will never get the feeling we had in seasons 1-5
I am at work all night and this could not have dropped at a better time
Me too
1:00:53 what Lucy says here resonates so much with me being someone with a full time job and family of two kids. I don't want to have to learn a new full fledged system that I need to watch 6 UA-cam tutorials to understand every new game I pick up.
Sometimes I just want to turn on a game and just play.
I think the division mainly boils down to whether or not you cared about the "lackluster" elements of it, if you don't care about the itemization being bare-bones, how the open world operates, and the sidequests then you'll see the game as a 9 or 10/10, however if those elements mean a lot to you or if you were expecting them to take a more active part in the game then you'll see the game as a 6 or a 7/10.
You shouldn’t have to overlook major parts of the game to enjoy it. A 10/10 game should be good through and through imo, not have half baked elements holding it back.
@@izumi4951 They aren't major parts, though. The game isn't made to be Monster Hunter, BOTW, and The Witcher 3 all in one. Expecting the game to excel in each aspect where the three mentioned games only do one is quite dumb. The game isn't meant to be explored like BOTW. It isn't meant to have gear like Monster Hunter. And the side quests aren't supposed to be like The Witcher 3.
The game was explicitly stated to focus on Story, Characters, Combat, and Graphics. It excels at each one of those explicitly stated goals. Nobody complained about the crap side quests and graphics for BOTW. Nobody cared about the crap story in Monster Hunter World. And nobody cared about the crap gameplay for The Witcher 3. Yet people complain about the supporting features? Literally every game has supporting features that aren't as fleshed out as the main features. Apparently, that's only a problem for FF16.
I swear, you people can't think for yourself.
This game definitely has things that should be the standard but also other things that maybe need a bit more oomph behind it. I just played 15 after finishing 16 to compare and 16 is sorely missing more companion stuff, I did 100% of the side quests in 16 and while I love the crew you build, it really falls flat when compared to past games and the crew that's built around your MC.
Clive is by far one of Mt favourite MCs though, but that's just me being an adult and wanting an older protag
Active Time Lore is one of those things that should be implemented in story-heavy games. I know FFXIII has something similar called datalogs that you need to find information and explain the world but I don't think they were accessible in the middle of a cutscene (so the player wouldn't be completely confused mid-cutscene, they can just pull out ATL).
Yeah, agree with this. It really nails some things and then falls flat in a few areas. One other area I felt was a little weak was the villain was pretty boring. While Clive will be one of the top MCs in future "best FF MCs", the villain (for me at least) will be near the bottom for "best FF villains".
The big thing for me is the core gameplay, and FF15's was not there at any point. Sorry road trip bois, you're one of my favorite FF parties, but I will gladly take precisely polished and deliberately restrained faux-DMC combat over the inscrutable husk that is FF15's fights. It's so telling that being allowed to skip the giant superboss fight from the base game is an appreciated feature in 15.
See also, Hi-Fi Rush (which is a fascinating companion to FF16, cuz' it has normal vidya levels around its fights).
Fun fact, FF15’s party gameplay was probably the worst in any FF back when it launched. You had no control over party members except sometimes a prompt would popup to let you do a team attack.
It wasn’t until several paid dlcs and updates that they let you switch and directly play other party members.
So ya its great if you waited like 2-4 years for them to fix it lol.
@@RougeMephilesClone ff15s core combat is worse kingdom hearts combat that feels like it wasn’t play tested properly and kh2 plays very well today compared to it today. Also 15 to me feels like it starts and ends too early everything before chapter 9 is nothing unless you care about the road trip and after you finish chapter 9 it doesn’t get good until insomnia and it’s not groundbreaking either
At around 1:h 26m Skillup's question about "Why good here and why bad there". That's like saying "Why do you like onions on your burger, but not on pizza?" When you make a recipie, the ingredients matter, and technique matters. You can use all the same ingredients, put them together differently and the results will be worlds apart.
Man they need to bring Tam on more often, I love his energy and discourse
I agree, I quite enjoyed hearing his thoughts and would love to hear them again.
Tam should join the fps permanently. Such a great addition to the podcast.
Tam is so awesome, can we make him a permanent cast member.
He is a permanent cast member. He's the Podcast Goblin :)
Jirard is "busy" often enough that Tam might as well be a permanent cast member.
After finishing final fantasy XVI, I want more final fantasy just like this. It was way too good.
I thought FF7R’s style was the future. It worked fluidly and felt really good, and blended old school FF with new school FF. I saw FFXVI and thought it would be similar. I enjoyed the latest title but that didn’t change my opinion one bit that FF7R was the superior game to me with a brighter future in its style
@escaflownia I said it looked like the future. I never said it looked cheap (or even reasonably priced)
Well we are getting rebirth, which will be a continuation and expansion of that formula. I think theres no harm in trying to start a whole new style of FF games. They can always make the good old rpg party based remakes of previous FF's, and also continue with a line of action driven FF's for new audiences.
I mean to be fair XVI entered development before VIIR came out, so maybe FFXVII will be more like VII Remake with its systems and combat??? Although that’s me just guessing since the FF games are very different from one another (for the most part).
Rebirth is coming out soon though and the combo attacks look so cool!
@escaflownia I still don't get your "it's not the full FF7 story = not worth full price" viewpoint. The game is bigger and better than most other full price games (= absolutely worth the asking price) and remake and rebirth took years to make and also tell a different story. And FF13 was also a trilogy = it's not even a new concept with FF. The PS5 intergrade upgrade was also free and the Yuffie DLC fairly priced. I also enjoyed FF7re and its combat way more in comparison (to FF16).
Agreed. I mostly loved FF7R combat style except that using items cost an ATB bar and the AI when controlling the team characters fighting without your control definitely needs tweaked.
Overall I think FF16 is a step in the right direction with a great story and the combat was fun (despite being far too easy).
But the game I feel does have quite a bit of flaws: Only having 1 character, how magic is used, lack of item and gear customization, not much of variety in enemies, not much of a reason to return and explore previous areas. I would give FF16 a 7.5/10.
Ignore the hate Skill Up. Your review was honest and appreciated. I share a lot of your concerns with the core gameplay loop and am sad to see the lack of depth.
The lack of depth has to do with you as a player. Not the game's fault you'd rather mash square than actually try at the game.
@@Beldaross I'm talking about the core gameplay loop of switching between icons and bursting damage during stagger. It's a fine mechanic but is a bit shallow when it's the only mechanic. No one said anything about button mashing, if you had played the game you would understand
Just wanted to say SkillUp and Jake’s reviews are among the only I trust and genuinely look forward to
Why was this just uploaded? I’m so happy!!😊
I’m happy, you’re happy!!!!
@@ewjiml I'm happy, that you are happy, that he is happy!!!!!!
Goated community ❤
I do hope the next Final Fantasy games continue to allow the Summons to be playable. The ifrit battles and the spectacle of them was some of the coolest and most fun parts of the game. I much prefer this treatment of summons over the previous games. And on final fantasy mode the fights such as titan can actually be semi difficult due to how hard they hit with your very limited heals making them even more fun to do.
No heals Titan makes you FEEL like the Eikon of fire - GamesRadar 10/10
They were so fluff. I much prefer the one and done previous games use of summons. Come in, do big damage and leave. The bahamut and titan fights were laughable, I wanted them to end quickly and they just kept going. Such a drag, Im glad you liked them but I reaaallly dont want this flashy QTE stuff to be the future of the franchise.
@@ABendzifymy arm hurt from mashing the square button.
I’d rather the eikon fights then watching my shiva summon kill everything in one hit
@ABendzify they're so weak.
This is my first Final Fantasy that I’ve really got into. Probably one of the longest games I ever going to beat too . I’m at the 50 hour mark and absolutely just loving it . Sure some of the side quest do drag but the combat is awesome and I love the main story.
That is my second ff and i really love it
i have been looking for a closure to '16', i found it here. all four of them balanced out the highs and lows of 16, summarized what i have felt about 16 and gave me more.
i am now closing my 16 journey with friends per second. thankyou.
I greatly enjoyed this version. And I’m old enough to have played every FF. (I was there when the mouse was announced). I do see how you see that it’s not the same. As it clearly isn’t. But I found this game as a great cinematic experience in the form of a game. But the difficulty ramp up in Final Fantasy mode also kicks things up a notch.
i find that it is so reductive to talk about a new entry not being "the same as before' ff16 is great. yes it has flaws but it is great. i dont see why it is being lambasted for not being "final fantasy", when god of war 2018 was praised for doing the exact same thing. i enjoyed both the og god of war series and the dad of boi version. its such a dumb argument to say "its not what i wanted so it is bad" instead of "its not what i wanted so i dont like it"
@arihantjain664 thank you. So much of the criticism (lots of it legitimate!) seems to hide behind "it doesn't have the ff identity". I've played nearly every final fantasy game and spinoff excepting mobile games. Tell me what unifying thread of identity exists between ff2, 12 ZA and type 0 that is lost in 16. There isn't one. I may like 16, but I have plenty of criticisms for it - lack of party feel, insufficient character development outside of Clive, no meaningful gear system, tacked on shoddy crafting system. But at this point I'm starting to think that the "it doesn't FEEL like the final fantasy series" is a cop-out that relies on a general ignorance of the viewer to only have played a few FF games and be forced to accept the concept at face value.
The only consistent thing I can say about FF in the last 30 years is that it consistently has an identity crisis with every major release. In that regards, 16 is right on the mark.
@joshuayung5158 the first 2 or 3 things you listed were unifying threads of previous final fantasy games... There's been spinoff games that do other weird things but the mainline games have always had that formula.
Love the podcast and it is definitely right to bring your expectations into reviews. Especially for series entries. Series create a DNA for what their games are. It's fine to change that DNA but it will be polarising. I think the same is true for developers, look at the conversation about Starfield, it's as much about comparing it to what Bethesda has done before as the game itself and that will be unavoidable in reviews. Especially for huge releases
Just noticed the play/pause button is perfectly in the middle of the FPS logo. Love this show and the insight/nuance each of them brings.
Oh man I've never clicked a notification so fast, mainly to watch the FF16 discussion. Loved hearing everyone's thoughts but man it kills me that you guys don't have anyone on the show who is currently playing a lot of FF14 because I think knowing that game in its current Endwalker state gives so much insight into the way CBU3 handled FF16. I thought your comments about it feeling like an MMO team developed it is spot on, but I think there are even more connections to be talked about, especially when contrasted with how CBU3 has changed FF14 over time. I thought that sort of perspective would've been SO useful to have during your big conversation about expectations and context, because from the perspective of the Final Franchise as a whole, FF16 changes so much, but when compared to current FF14, it's absolutely a similar formula and philosophy. And ultimately that's been the big split between the people I know who have played or are playing 16: all the FF14 players and relatively new fans are loving it, while the more traditional and longtime fans of Final Fantasy are far more critical of it. More than any other game released in the last few years I've loved the discussion about this game because I think Final Fantasy is such a unique series in how it means so many different things to so many different people. You titled the show asking if FF16 should be the future, but I think the real question you have to begin with is "What is Final Fantasy?" It's such an interesting topic because I don't think even Square Enix have a definitive answer to that. Anyway, great podcast. Looking forward to listening to the next 1000 episodes in between now and FF17's release, lol.
Feel the opposite about 14. I’m a 14 fan from the beginning. I’ve seen how yoship and his team have changed it over the years. I love the story a lot. However, that doesn’t make me auto like 16. Rather it allows me to see the flaws in it caused specifically by yoship’s approach to design.
@@Khaoticsuccubus That's fair, and it would probably be more accurate to say that most people who *currently* love FF14 also love 16. I actually have some friends such as yourself who were big into the game but either don't play anymore or only resubscribe every once in awhile to do MSQ. And it just goes to show that even within the same Final Fantasy game fans can have different opinions.
i dont see the ff14 comparison. ff16 feels like a kingdom hearts game but with a coherent story, story is not great but its coherent
SkillUp (Ralpha) in his review mentioned a lot of ff14 parallels he has played a lot of ff14 even if not playing it currently. He compared it a lot generally to the MSQ of ff14.
@@nattobaby In FF14 the main meat of the game is through the MSQ and major side quest chains are built on the pillars of Dialogue, petty boring overworld quests, and big pieces of content like dungeons, raids, and trials. FF16 is very similar except the last part is replaced with action combat and eikon battles. It's a formula I personally really like but is definitely not too everyone's taste. "Collect 10 Bear Asses" is a meme for a reason and not everyone is forgiving of that being the gameplay inbetween the actual high points.
Final Fantasy 16 was my Final Fantasy gateway, Im just happy that I get to finally a explore a new game series that I kept bouncing off. Im glad people enjoy this game and am happy for other people who may enjoy this game the same way I do, but yes the criticism are def valid. But hey, if you like a game, then dont let anyone take that from you, games are meant to be enjoyed, and your enjoyment of those games doesnt have to be validated by anyone but you!! Love the content Ralph!!!
I just want to say, because of this podcast I started watching Succession a few months ago, and goddamn... thank you guys for the reference!
Never was into ff until this one. I love it.
That's the problem. Is a FF game for non Ff fans or haters of the previous titles. I play it because I'm a long time action game fan not because it is a new FF game. I am even a greater RPG fan than normal hack slash. There was a time when we didn't have to choose between one or the other but played both and be done with it. What they're doing for me stupid. They lack confidence.
Its a great one! Final fantasy at its core is about breaking a cycle within the world that youre playing in. In final fantasy 16s case, its about breaking the cycle of the mother crystals. As a final fantasy fan for 20 years I believe every single final fantasy game is a final fantasy game at its core. The combat has been continuously changing since final fantasy 11 came out in 2002, so in my own opinion complaining about a change in combat is old news, and the people who are complaining need to go to a retirement home because its as if they forget that the combat changes in each and every single entry. Nobody can tell me otherwise, and nobody should tell you otherwise. This is a wonderful entry in the franchise!
@@808Slush I Don’t want to gatekeeping FF but those who say this one isn’t FF I don’t think really played the game or paid attention to it. I get FF vibes all over the place.
I've been playing FF since 90s, played them all including the MMOs and some mobile ones too. I also love it
@@AshTreeDwellerthat isnt gatekeeping at all in my opinion. This is a brilliant entry in the franchise for real. Im happy that new fans and old fans can enjoy it. Some of my friends are getting into final fantasy because of it
Absolutely loved this episode. As someone who’s disagreed fervently with Ralph on many a title, I always come back to him because he’s a quality reviewer who explains why he arrives at the conclusion he comes to, even if it’s not one that i share
The spectacle and grandeur of the Eikon battles and cinematics in FFXVI make my fucking jaw drop.
@@spbrk the gameplay in them is great it’s just that tuned them to be easy
Keep everything FFXVI had but add controllable Party/Deeper RPG Mechanics and Optional dungeons to encourage exploration.
FFXVI has laid a VERY GOOD solid foundation for future final fantasy titles. Clives Free Control/Open Linear Nature/Worldbuilding and Unique bombastic boss battles were top notch.
Final Fantasy XVI brought that feeling of Final Fantasy and turned it up to 11. Story/Crystals/World/Boss Fights/Worldbuilding etc but left what made FF such a unique game in design, Minigames/Playable Party/Optional Dungeons etc those quirks.
I feel like this is one of the more fair takes on the game in general. I think with the last few games they've been experimenting with how to make the action combat feel good, and they nailed it with FFXVI. Now I'd like to see delve deeper into the RPG aspects. Some dungeons to explore, perhaps even some maps we wouldn't go to without sidequests, more unique materials from monsters in the field to make new weapons/gear.
Thinking about it, I think I'd be pretty happy with some more side content, character customization, party customization and then essentially the addition of Monster Hunter to the foundations they laid out. Notorious Enemies/Hunts give special material, make unique gear
Your comment is one of the few good criticisms I have seen on this subject.
To add to this please keep the same level of quality in both voice acting and cutscene direction. These two things stood out the most for me in FF16 and to me these are probably the best VA performances and cutscenes ever done in a FF game and miles ahead of most JRPGs. Really hope that Square recognizes this and continues to implement the same practices in all their future games. From what I understand they did the script in English first before translating back to japanese, which might be a risky move for JP fans, but I think it was a great idea that helped give much more life to all the characters.
Honestly, FF16 for me personally, I didn't like the combat on minor enemies but was great on bosses. Actively trying to not get into engagements with the wolves,bugs etc felt like a chore. No enemy variety. But the story, boss battles and cinematic are amazing. The customisation on weapons were crap aswell. That's my 2 cents anyway. I can see it getting GOTY though.
Edit: just to add, it felt like it was long cutscene-small combat section-long cutscene-boss battle rinse and repeat.
The minor enemy fights are so bad it’s hard to believe this is actually a big budget title at times. I agree though, it really shines during some of the bigger battles.
The people most opposed to calling it a GOTY are probably the "hardcore" Final Fantasy fans 😂
For me gameplay comes first so when I saw that there was 75% more cutscenes than gameplay, that was a deal breaker for me. Story looks cool tho.
FF16 will probably be nominated for GOTY, but it's highly unlikely it will win GOTY, as Zelda, Starfield, Spiderman 2, or RE4 Remake will end up winning GOTY (probably Zelda tbh).
@@connorkenway09being a fan of something is not just blindly liking everything the franchise release...
Dion does fucking rule and I had the same takeaway. They really had the bones of an incredible Final Fantasy party and they just left that on the table
No one mentioned the real reason why FF16 is the way forward:
No excessive anime noises injected into speech patterns!
No grunts, sighs, “uhs”, “huhs”, “mmms” or growls filling every possible moment of silence
Just really good dialog and voice acting that is far more representative of actual human speech. It’s brilliant!
so true
The “we are divided” thumbnail is what I was assuming about the upcoming podcast.
Annnnd I was excited to see/hear it! But I’m excited to hear the discussion (IN A POSITIVE WAY)
I Beat FFXVI and it was my dream game soild 10/10 for me
You can’t be serious
@@axelstone3131just i know that you give some game 10/10 that many don't think so he gave it that because that he feel like. Go somewhere if cant handled people enjoying things you don't like or hate.
@@AnjJan-n7qright 😂 Someone just can’t get past that other people enjoy different experiences more. Proof is in the pudding and this game sells
I'm waiting for Final Fantasy Cid, the spin off title that takes the first 10 games and explores them as a multiverse from the perspective of Cid, travelling through time meeting various other Cids, in his quest to track down and understand the true goal of Gilgamesh, who is also charing through the multiverse looking for ultimate weapons. If I thibk hard enough I might manifest it.
It feels like ralph has finally been hit with what people of other franchises (that he reviewed and loved) felt. People asked the same question about god of war,prey,ff7r's story,yakuza 7 and so on.
I think devs should be allowed to make what ever game they want to make and limiting them to the legacy of the title is just creative wall that shouldn't exist. I would have loved to see his review if the game wasn't called final fantasy or like the other games i just mentioned, his review without any experience from past ff titles
1:17:19
YES!
That quote (or the spirit of it) seems to stick with me and just seems like such good advice. As the crew was talking my mind was going to that quote.
For a dev, it is more important for a critic to say "I thought the combat was missing something" than "The combat should have done this". The latter is important to the potential player because it gives a hint of your own taste and it can make gor interesting discussion. That said, I did think while I was playing FF16 that it would be cool if the Eikons power could fuse. Though I think that may have taken away from story elements.
It doesn't have to be the immutable future of Final Fantasy, but I'm very happy it's the present!
This exactly. I love this one but by no means do I expect future games to be exactly like it. And I’m quite sure SE doesn’t intend the next one to be exactly like it either.
Love you guys! You weren’t exactly “divided” on FF16 but great conversation nonetheless
Being in jakes situation blows. It’s so hard to chime in and have a good time when the connection be hitting.
the detail in the animation was the first thing that hooked me in Ghost Trick. So amazing
Ralph my boy just wanted to say your review was great and don’t take the backlash to heart! I fundamentally disagree with you on FF16 and still really enjoyed and appreciated your review. As a criticism/rhetoric nerd I love conversations about this kind of thing. I actually enjoy and thrive off of hearing different opinions on art. Whether I agree or not it gives me a window into the perspective of someone else and I dig that. Cheers man!
I like the system in FF7 remake, it was a good balance between the action oriented and turn based systems.
It was but honestly, I just want a good ol turnbased release. Doesn’t have to be all of them, just give me one. If persona can do it so can final fantasy.
I think they don’t have the confidence in making a modern turnbase ff because there has to be something else to oomph it up and you know there going to add a auto battle option which would break the game like it does the pixel remaster. And inherently I think a turnbase one probably wouldn’t be as exciting as something more flashy because it might look awkward with the realistic looking characters. Old ff games were only turnbase because of constraints at the time and your supposed to imagine them actually brawling
I agree. 7 Remake is peak modern day ff in my opinion.
@@bossmannn3415 If Persona 5 had it and was such a hit that should tell them people have no issues playing a turn based battle system.
@@zeromagnum2811 do you think square would able to create a cutting edge turnbase system because i think squaresoft could but I don’t think enix nowadays could and also ffs identity is a lil different and also persona has always been way more strategic then ff just based off the weakness system and aswell persona combat is elevated so much by it’s style an ui so if they do that they would have to nail that
You guys walk the line of serious takes of gaming and the industry and a bantering/jokey show.
A perfect for this inherently silly pastime that we nevertheless all love dearly.
I love Jirard, but hot damn does Tam bring a certain energy that I love.
100%
Where can we find more of Tam? What's his UA-cam?
@@shum21 gamespot
100% Seems like a better fit for the pod overall. This might’ve been my favorite episode yet
Exactly, more Tam less Jirard please.
I’ve never played a Final Fantasy game before FFXVI. The demo convinced me to give it a chance and I absolutely love the final game. This is what the developers intended, and it seems like they succeeded.
Fortress in Melbourne is amazing. Highly recommend! You can rent board games. You can rent a booth with a console for gaming nights. And then get your drinks & food served to you? 🎉
Tam makes this my new fav combination of hosts for this podcast he's great
I love Final Fantasy and I love Devil May Cry, so 16 has been so much fun. Experimenting new powers and upping the combo is a blast. I always admire each FF's different gameplay direction that I can't wait to see what's next.
To keep this short I’m really liking ff16 so far, the biggest hilight being the fast paced combat and linear story, it’s mature as it can be for ff, tho rpg elements are underwhelming especially the charms and weapons, however I feel like it’s a strong base for improvement and ff’s new direction
Plus the side missions could be better
They do get better towards the latter half
People talking about the introductory side quests and base all the side quests on those seem to forget that the first sidequests are there as an introduction to how side quests function. They represent function, not format. Some of the later side quests provide huge world building and develops the cast and side characters alot.
but what final fantasy story isn't linear, they all have the same endpoint, they all have the same method of getting there
@@benjaminchristiansen4129 yeah just got to one of those longer story side missions with otto, I like the added lore, but the pacing DRAGS
yea i basically ignored all the 2nd row of gear once i got potion effect boosting gear. i just sold all the rest
How is ff16 the future of the franchise when every single ff main line game has always been different from the last ? I respect you guys but I don’t get the whole ff16 isn’t final fantasy argument.
This discourse reminds me of similar sentiments people had when Breath of the Wild came out - and again recently with Tears of the Kingdom.
In a lot of ways the two games were BIG departures formulaically from what previous Zelda games had already established, and because of that BotW/TotK wound up not really resonating with a big chunk of the franchise's fanbase. I still respect the hell out of those two games and FFXVI to boot because rather than iterating on the same formula from past games, the devs tried something NEW here to try and inspire GROWTH - growth in a new audience and growth in what these games could ultimately achieve.
Zelda still stayed true to its fundamental core of exploration and puzzle solving, it just did so in a wildly different and more open fashion.
FF is trying to be a whole different genre of game: stylized action hero. It's like if Resident Evil decided to become a match 3 puzzle game franchise permanently for its mainline entries.
@@travisbplankbotw/totk is actually innovative tho that's the thing. 16 isn't innovative in the slightest it doesn't even do what other action games such as DMC or bayo do well
@@kannanshrinivasan6984 Totally agreed. That's why BotW managed to supplant Ocarina of Time as my favorite Zelda while I haven't enjoyed a Final Fantasy in decades. They're not innovating and they've lost their core. They have no identity and now they're just making mediocre versions of other developers' games.
Kinda funny how Nintendo is like "what if we take everything from the previous game and give them vehicle building, weapon fusing, and simplistic party members" and Final Fantasy is like "what if we take away party members, take away equipment, take away exploration and changed to a whole different genre?"
Hate these arguments about "innovation". Like, what innovations are these people talking about? Edgelords dropping F-bombs?
@@kannanshrinivasan6984botw was not innovating lol. its literally just open world survival elements that have been done to death. That may be new to zelda but its nothing new to gaming.
@@travisbplankWell first off there is still equipment and exploration. Don’t know where you got that there isn’t.
Second, it does innovate in terms of seamlessness in a very highly graphically detailed game. Nearly all cutscenes aren’t even actual cutscenes. They’re rendered in engine, and everything transitions from scene to gameplay nearly seamlessly. With as big as some fights get, and as highly detailed as it is, that’s a huge accomplishment that pretty much no other game has achieved.
And the few times there is obvious loading, it’s a few seconds of black screen.
I would be 100% here for a Remedy Supernatural game, thank you Tam for mentioning that idea. A legitimate game based on the show Supernatural would be so heck’n cool!
As someone that likes Action games and story driven games, FF16 is like a dream come true.
Same, this is what i wanted from XV
That wolf side quest is one of many great ones actually.
I agree the batman trilogy deserves all the praise it gets. Also origins was so good. That deathstroke fight wow😮
The Deathstroke "Quick Time Event" fight is trash.
@@xanderscott807 ah yes the pointless hate on qte anything new?
I was thinking about this upon seeing Synapse for PSVR2: I think an Inception VR game that either worked around Nolans original story or was set in the world he created would be fascinating! For me personally a game like that could be a VR system seller?
There was a time when Final Fantasy was my favorite series(6-12) They were unique and really its own genre. Whether it was the music, story, characters, jobs, magic, eidolons/summons, politics, hidden bosses/items, etc. You knew it was a Final Fantasy game. 15 and 16 to me, are great games in their own rights, I see why people love them. They remind me of Devil May Cry, Kingdom Hearts, Bayonetta etc. Great action games. But they don't remind me of Final Fantasy. The side quests also remind me of FF14, which I truly loved as an online game. If I wanted to play these types of games however, I would play their respected titles. When I want to play a Final Fantasy game, I'm looking for that iconic Final Fantasy experience.
I grew up in an age when Final Fantasy wasn't an action RPG, it was a turn based RPG. It wasn't a thriller, it was a fantastical romance in a way. Stories of characters starting as flawed thieves or rogues, mercenaries etc, eventually meeting a fated companion and spiraling into what seemed like a series of events that had them facing divinity, in order to overcome some very real emotions and hardships that by the end of the game, had players at the edge of their seat to see if all that struggle was worth it in the end. Couple that with some excellent plot twists, villains etc. and it was a helluva ride when the credits roll.
These last two titles, to me, seem like a direction away from a heartfelt story rich RPG that made Final Fantasy iconic, and truly able to stand on its own from other titles. Which is unfortunate to someone who counts Final Fantasy 6-12 as some of their favorited games ever played.
I understand that I' m a 90's gamer and the series is trying to reinvent themselves for younger audiences. In my opinion, it's unfortunate that it has to try and make a story rich RPG experience like a flashy action game in order to capture that relevance, when it had something truly unique and something that I believe would've offered modern gamers something just as engaging as it did to those of us who fondly remember playing 7 for the first time, or 8 etc.
I'm glad to see that players are still enjoying Final Fantasy after all these years, it just makes me sad to see what had to be sacrificed. As for me, this will probably be my last Final Fantasy game as I'm personally not a fan of their ongoing direction. All the best to those having a blast with it though. At the end of the day, it's just a game, and meant to be enjoyed. Cheers!
I think nostalgia blinds you to an insane degree. The story is the same it has always been, good characters, and crazy magics and crystals, tied to deeper meanings like kingdoms and ecological disasters. FF16 is final fantasy, it just isn’t an RPG. You need to make that distinction for yourself
@@HiLoMusicWell I think you guys are the ones that are blinded by good graphics, cinematic (more a movie with FFXIV side quests xd) and director who is now venerated but okey. What you just mentioned about FF games is just something that everybody knows but it is different now, now story is much more mature some jokes or funny moments are not here due to that, there isn't as many or as good characters, yes they have what previous FF had but the bond for most of them is lacking due to the game being more like GofW or DMC like before the final battle they had a vendor guy join in because they didn't have enough people to make a crowd, rest of what you said is there, magic and kingdoms is what fantasies are for xd.
@@Tyanus2 cinematics and presentation are incredible, much like every single FF before it - but no, the actual game is great, the combat is fun, the music is phenomenal, the bosses and concepts are as pure final fantasy as final fantasy can be, it’s not just me being blinded by pretty graphics. I don’t think the game is perfect, but people walking around judging it as this sub-adequate project, this sub-adequate final fantasy game, it’s just some stupid predisposed agenda.
@@Tyanus2theres a lot of funny moments, maybe the game is so mature that you didnt catch the jokes? Or maybe you need characters to laugh so you know when a joke was made?
I love how mention all the things that make each ff unique except the combat. Sure they were mostly turn based but the combat changed and evolved with each game. Making it an action game is no different. Ff16 is still a unique ff.
Shout out to Jake for doing the same thing I do when somebody says, "It's been..."!
We should take the time to acknowledge Tam’s value to the group. His ability to articulate his thoughts in a comprehensible way is equal to that of SkillUp, especially when it’s comes to counter points made by the others. Outside of his thoughts about Harry Potter at the beginning of the episode he has a new fan in me 👍
Agree
I have to agree with Tam. KH2 is one of my favorite games ever, 100% on PS2, and I loved 2.8 and 3 and I'm very excited for 4. But let's not even act like the writing is good. They made the best that they could, but the way everything was attempted to be finished in KH3 was really reaching across a lot of angles, and not really too many got resolved. Very convenient plot points. Good episode
Love you guys. FF16 is amazing and would love to see them trying to flesh out the rpg aspects more. And we need more Animorphs coverage lol
FF16 is a disappointment.
@@HULKHOGAN1cool
Aside from the story if ff16 was a western rpg it would laughed at 😊
@@luiiibilll00 story wasn't even that great, it was just coherent which is a step up for final fantasy
@@nattobaby its definitely better than most games
I think a lot of Ralph’s criticisms fall into a matter of subjectivity while he exposits them aa objectivity. He said it quite clearly at around 57:00 , ‘if these games were more like a Horizon or god of war’, and that’s where I think his critiques fall apart. The game isn’t trying to be a horizon or god of war, just because it’s pretty doesn’t mean it has to be every Sony block buster ever. It isn’t interested in doing that.
Me: Ok I should go to sleep. (sees a 2.5h video from Skill up on FF16)... f*ck...
Me lol
FPS pod
Yall are expecting Borderlands level side quest when the side quest serve as a vehicle to show you how fcked up the world is....
i love the fact square enix is out there to reinvent the wheel and theyre bold enough to risk their future i do hope they continue elevate the freedom of their developers creative desire.
Correct
What did they re-invent? They very boldly wanted to make DmC-like combat, but failed to make it quite as engaging. Gameplay-wise pretty much all apsects have been done better in recent years, especially exploration, quest design, level design and pacing. Did we play different games?
On Jake's point about a John Wick game, Midnight Fight Express has the perfect bones for a John Wick game.
I’m about halfway thru XVI, and I get the criticism, but wow I adore my time with it so far. Is it very cutscene heavy? Does the pace suffer for it? Do the side quests kinda suck? Yeah. But the characters, the story, the combat, it all makes me so excited to play it. I haven’t been this excited to play a game in so long. I can’t wait to get to the next boss fight cuz the combat is so addictive.
I enjoyed the game very much. Loved the ending. I do kinda miss the whole party aspect. Like it would be cool to get to control Gavin, Mid, Jill, Torgal, Byron ect. as party members.
Even the few positive things you guys say about FF16 are absolutely backhanded. It just feels like you wanted a whole other game...
1:25:30 Fucking NAILED it. Right there.
BTW Excellent discussion, EVERYONE!
I think if they are going to make a game with the name Final Fantasy, it is completely fair that people come with expectations of prior installments and compare to those versions of the game.
But I think we also need to be mindful that we aren't just reviewing against the golden age of Final Fantasy, but some of the less favourable titles too.
If they want to make a game that breaks from the core tenets of the game genre and make a smaller focused action adventure game, that's fine but maybe don't make it a core numbered entry into the franchise.
Perhaps they could put a spin on the title like ' Final Fantasy Beyond' like what they did with Tactics.
comes with its own evil too. you get the shitfling on whether the game is mainline or not and why so much dev time is being wasted on this spin off. i remember people were initially shitting on Mh world because it wasnt MH 6
fun fact: at disney world they have a machine that 3D scans performers and can tell you exactly which characters they have the proportions to play. There's also a little wiggle room; for example, the taller performers playing princesses wear shorter heels and the shorter ones wear taller heels. You also might have someone playing Aurora one day and Belle the next. I also never met a performer who wasn't extremely nice backstage
Jake's Redlettermedia refrence is god-tier!
Dream adaptation to a video game: FireFly. (Somthing along the lines of Red Dead in space, maybe a splash of MadMax in the ship combat and customization)
I’m a huge fanboy for final fantasy that I will admit and I try to give all final fantasy games a chance and honestly I enjoyed FF16 my all time favorite will
Be FF4 and I do like the turn base strategy that comes with some FF games but I did like what they did with 16
As someone who has played FF since early 90s, I dont get this strategy comment. There's not much strategy. Either abilities were tied to jobs, equipment/weapons or materia. Aside from the stat buffs via sphere grid in 10, almost all had flat stat buffs. Ailments you had to keep track of. As for ATB, you could always set to wait but there was never a "let me sit here forever and just think" except for 7,8,9,10 to a small degree.
Action real time combat has ALWAYS been the vibe Square has tried to keep pushing, and after advent children they chased the "look and feel" of the continuous flashy combat that FF7 Advent Children depicted. I do agree turn based is great but it's in no way shape or form this ULTIMATE strategy. FFs do not have min-maxed stats or heavy depth around builds like a pen n paper, souls like or other Western RPGs especially Morrowind.
Very rare to meet another 4 favorite, though 10 is up there for me as well being my first ff to beat lol.
@@amunago080 FF4R will be legend.
@slippynipz I've played almost every single final fantasy game, even crystal chronicles, type 0, and the strategy in the SNES era really often just boiled down to self-buff, use elemental weakness, and have some healing or ailment protection on hand while you wail on the boss. It certainly wasn't the rocket surgery a lot of people seem to think it was.
@@joshuayung5158 yeah man, I don't get the complaint and I love turn based. They just want to whine and be cavalier against change. Which is what FF is built on.
I never excepted Shill-Up (I love you skill up) to inspire my passion to pursue law school.
Ff16 wasnt for me, but i can fully understand its appeal to those that really enjoy it. Different strokes for different folks
Same. I tried to enjoy it, but it the end I just wanted it to be over.
@@trollingisasport yeah that's exactly how I got. Just wanted it to end so I can get the ending.
@@spbrk Hang in there... I want to say it gets better, but... hang in there!
@@00x000lol sadge
I'm so glad I wasn't the only one to make the comparison between Final Fantasy 16 and Asura's Wrath. Jake's just over here saying what we're all thinking.
yes, I this is a better direction of the franchise (btw it has always followed this direction of moving forward, each ff is different, skill up sounds like he has only played ff7). your nostalgia is catered by games like ff7 remake, and pixel remasters.
Very inspiring to listen to you guys talking about the reviewing process.
Started my own endeavour not too long ago and love you guys's perspective on it. 🎉
I love how they tried to give some deep and convoluted explanation for the ff7r vs 16 comparison when it all boiled down to “nostalgia” glasses.
Love seeing Ralph talk about the ROG Ally. I’ve been wanting a Steam Deck for months, started seeing more and more hype and promise about the Ally, pre-ordered it and got it release day, and I’ve been super happy with it since.
Biggest divide between videogame reviewers and regular people is you cruise through games with deadlines, play them with another mindset (what am I gonna say about it and how I make it original and/or interesting) and you play A LOT of games.
Most users make a choice about what to play and stick to it, in a more relaxed way and less judgemental. A videogame being long is not so bad anymore because it makes it last more, "boring" quests are not so much of a problem because they serve the purpose of killing time and can be done while listening to a podcast or similar, etc.
A similar thin occurs with streamers. They get annoyed with characters talking too much because they need to cram their personalities on top of the gameplay, but most people just play those kind of single player games alone and in silence.
Harry Potter is extremely fun if you have any affinity for Britain’s legendary actors, famous British locations both urban and rural, any love for Charles Dickens or Agatha Christie, experience of Church or boarding school etc. HP offers an idealised and stereotypical Britain which is why it’s internationally popular. Plus, how can you not like big man Dobby?
This is my favorite FF to date!!! 😊
Wow. Are you neuro divergent?
Never thought I'd be reminded of biker grove in this podcast🤣. Those were the days, 5pm on a Thursday after school, god I feel old
If they want to use the final fantasy name to market/sell a game, expectations are completely fair. If you want a completely clean slate call it something else