fans of Tolkien,of Martin,my brothers. i see in your eyes the same fear that would take the heart of me,a day may come when the production of books fails, when we forsake our authors and break all bonds of fellowship,but it's not this day, an hour of internet and crappy shows when the age of reading comes crashing down but it''s not this day this day we read,by all that you hold dear on this good Earth, i bid you stand men/women of literature
Do you know what being literate is, Lord Snow? It's being second-guessed by every clever little illiterate with a mouth. But when you start second-guessing yourself that's the end. For you, for the clever little illiterates, for everyone.
Tolkien said about fairy tales that they are "stories about Fairy, that is Faerie, the realm or state in which fairies have their being. Faerie contains many things besides elves and fays, and besides dwarfs, witches, trolls, giants, or dragons: it holds the seas, the sun, the moon, the sky; and the earth, and all things in it; tree and bird, water and stone, wine and bread, and ourselves, mortal men, when we are enchanted." So, considering Tolkien undoubtedly read a lot more than Martin this regard, I feel safe to say Tolkien definitely wrote fairy tales with The Hobbit and LotR. I am , of course, disregarding the very limited definition Martin has of the genre. But I think Tolkien would want us to set our prejudices aside about what fairy stories are. Too many limitations are laid upon them by defining them as we do now. "On Fairy Stories" is a brilliant essay by Tolkien by the way.
Why say things like "omg tolkien was so much better this guy sucks"? I'm a huge fan of Middle-Earth; Tolkiens' work holds a very special place in my heart. No other piece of literature will replace it for me, but to say everything else is therefore shit is a stupid thing to say. What would you rather have? Many different takes on creating a second world by many different authors? Or no more new fantasy literature for the rest of time?
The fact she could compare the silmarillion to that book is proof she has never read either. One is a fun coffee table and the other was a magnum opus of 40 years. One was made with fans over email, the other made with match light during trench warfare. To be fair you can see George cringe when she compares the two.
Harrison Cortis I only read the trilogy and the hobbit. Is the silmarillion worth the read ? Heard it is difficult since I'm not a native english speaker
@@MisterCatMan Don't konw. I read Silmarillion in polish (I'm from Poland) and I don't think it's harder than Lord of The Rings. To be fair i have no idea how it is in english. Just try, because, to me, Silmarillion is one of the most amasing books I've ever read.
Martins made books that predate asoiaf, that to me is his silmarilion, the story that predates the story we already know. So the soiaf is more like his lord of the rings of books. They have similar concepts where people are fighting over an object, in lord of the rings it’s the one ring and in asoiaf is the iron throne. I personally don’t know exactly the factual evidence and whatnot, that Tolkien had written the silmarillion in the trenches of ww1. He did write a book of lost tales and a bit of the hobbit (based the hobbit off his experience in ww1) during the war but idk about the silmarillion specifically.
JRR Tolkien is called the ''father of fantasy'', but because someone has great quality's in his stories doesn't mean the others don't. I think if you look closely, every fantasy story has a bit of Tolkien in it.
Yea, but why need to say that one is better. Its like comparing the son to his father. Tolkein is "father" of fantasy, Martin took that fantasy and made it his own and expanded it beyond imagination of everyday people.
I like both of their works (Tolkien and Martin's), I concider Tolkien's legendarium superior but Martin's is also great, probably second only to Tolkien
Tolkien is the Master when it comes to epic fantasy. The American answer to Tolkien is Robert E. Howard and Frank Herbert. Why do people forget that? Next in line would be Robert Jordan.
Agreed. I have not read any Dune books as I am more of a fantasy fan than science fiction. However, I have read all of the Conan books written by Robert E. Howard and those completed by L. Sprague De Camp and have to say this is my second favorite fantasy universe after Middle Earth. It may not be as big of an "ice berg" as George Martin put it, but is almost as enjoyable. Pity Howard died so young. He may have been able to create a back story for the Hyborian age that would have been an amazing read.
Cyber Volk I think this is the only smart comment I have EVER read on UA-cam, EVER. Long live Hyboria, long live the Duniverse. Have everything all three have ever written
Manic Exorcism the main reason I think why game of thrones outshines them is because it’s so real. There’s no hero narrative, it’s a world our ancestors lived in. We connect with this world far more than those who fly space ships or can do magic.
Im a big Tolkien fan as they come but didnt get why people insult or compare Mr Martin here.He explained how much complex was Tolkiens material with humility.I think the world of ice and fire is a better series than lord of the rings in its on way.But people got to understand lord of the rings is one of the many side stories which was born from Silmarillion.Tolkiens world is so grand and complex and because unfornately he was a "secondborn" (Men) his lifespan wasnt enough to complete this giant project.I always find myself thinking how amazing it would be if he could live for a thousand years...and i could read a new chapter of silmarillion after watching Freddie Mercurcy live :) or maybe i "imagine" too much ..
LotR was born from The Hobbit, not The Silmarillion. At the time Tolkien started to write LotR, they were separated in his mind from the Silmarillion. During the writing process the two works, but especially LotR, were pulled into the world of the Silmarillion and both were influencing each other in major ways. It's even part of the reason why The Silmarillion was never finished. I don't think Tolkien would want to be immortal, but it would be a fundamentally different bibliography if he was, due to fundamentally different views on life and death, and many other things along with many experiences in life.
I know, right? No one's gonna come close to Tolkien's level of world building. It's just mind boggling how vast it is. And we all know this guy wasn't done lol.
I see Martin as a accomplished scholar of Tolkien and its great. Martin holds great deal of respect to him and never shy away to be called as an influenced person.
Imo Martin is secondary only to Tolkien when it comes to fantasy. The two men are geniuses when it comes to write and the world of ice and fire and middle earth are the two most perfectly crafted fantasy worlds ever created. Martin is the true successor to Tolkien imo
I haven't read RR Martin, so I can't speak about him with an informed opinion, but I very much doubt he's in the same league as Tolkien. Someone tried to make that claim about Brian Herbert & Kevin J Anderson over one of the Dune Sequels they wrote. I did actually enjoy the Dune sequel, but in no way is it on the level of Tolkien. To do what Tolkien did, you must be deeply connected with the history and myth of your culture, as well as the land, and you must love your cultural and heritage. Most of the contemporary "western" writers don't do this. They are typically grounded in Critical Theory and post-modernism, in other words, PC gets in the way of things. The closest thing to Tolkien (not in terms of style but in term of quality), is anime. The Japanese writers are still good because they don't have a nonsense ideology keeping them from appreciating their own cultural roots. They're still proud, and because of that they're bold, and their writing is (usually).
Tolkien is the original. The original is most often the best. Martin is a more modern interpreter of fantasy and good in his own right. He is good with twists and intricate plotting. He has assembled a massive fan base on his own. Give him credit. He's good. Nobody compares a modern playwright with Shakespeare, don't compare Martin to Tolkien.
Why people feel like they need to say that one is better then the other(Tolkein and Martin). Its like comparing the son to his father. Tolkein is "father" of fantasy, Martin took that fantasy and made it his own and expanded it beyond imagination of everyday people. In this interview you clearly see the admiration of Toklein by Martin.
Isn't Martin's work more complex when it comes to politics and more character driven compare to Tolkien's? That's what true fans of ASOIAF actually like.
I'd rather look at it like fantasy books and books in general are dying. For eons People have used books for wisdom. But slowly we are dumbing our minds by using the internet. So i'd rather not compare the two Authors.
Meh. I wouldn't compare them like that... Their works are too different. Martin is much better at creating complex characters, and a whole, believable and functioning work... Tolkien created a story more reminiscent to legends and myths, with familiar creatures; both are good in their own way, though not really comparable, are they? Personally, I prefer the depth, complexity and unpredictableness of Martin's works in many ways, for exactly that. But I'll happily admit, that Tolkien's works has a lot, that Martin's don't - it's just impossible to have strengths without weaknesses.
tad Williams, Robin Hobb, brandon Sanderson,Sean Russell, Roger zelazney, Patrick rothfuss, Robert Jordan,John Marco,Brent weeks,Peter v Bret,Gene wolf,Steven Erickson,....ok, anyone else??
The fact that this woman compared RR Martin to Tolkien shows that she (at most) only has a bare surface understanding of Tolkien and his lore. I haven't read RR Martin, so I can't make a solid analysis of his work, but he if is writing his lore/history AFTER he wrote his stories then he's not using Tolkien's methodology. Tolkien wrote all the lore first, then wrote Hobbit and LOTR.
I cut my teeth on Tolkien, enjoyed Middle Earth a lot, but by my mid teens I was vastly sick of 'High / Epic Fantasy' with a few exceptions (Tolkien, Feist, and much later, George Martin). How many three-foot-wide, multi-tomed 'High Fantasy' series do you need to labour through before concluding the vast majority are nothing more than strenuously verbose, thinly-disguised Middle Earth rip-offs: the same old races & characters under different names, regurgitated by literary necromancers over and over, driven by the insatiable demand of the undiscerning, unsophisticated masses. Belgariad, Shannara, Wheel of Time...if I yawned any harder I'd need my jaw rewired. I prefer Michael Moorcock, Robert E. Howard, Terry Pratchett, Neil Gaiman, Darryl Schweizer, Gene Wolfe. Gygax's Gord the Rogue, even :) Anyway, some reading recommendations if you're interested: TOLKIEN POSITIVE: Interesting discussion on Tolkien through the lens of Gnosticism: 'Stephan A. Hoeller talks about the Lord of the Rings' (UA-cam) TOLKIEN NOT-SO-POSITIVE - 'Epic Pooh' by Michael Moorcock. Free PDF (Google is your friend) 13-page critique of Tolkien. ('Starship Stormtroopers' by MM is worth a read if you like the above) PS: The novels upon which 'The Witcher' games are based are shameless rip-offs of Moorcock's Elric of Melnibone: *BOYCOTT BOTH!* PPS: I live in New Zealand; growing up, I felt it'd make the perfect setting for LOTR...I was right ;) Very proud of the LOTR movies / rather embarrassed by the utter nonsense Hobbit trilogy.
Knowing UA-cam,there is a battle between fans of Tolkiens Legedarium and A Song of ice and fire. Just remember to not mention the tv show and movie adaptations because they are nothing compared to the books. Edit:spelling error
Since everyone is comparing LOTR and GOT. I must say I love both at first. Game of Thrones is a breath taking adventure with mind blowing twists, intrigues. It creates an amazing bond between us and characters. So many characters. So many eyes to settle and look at the world on their POV. Yet Tolkien just like Martin says creates a history which is as real as any existing history of the real world. Tolkien did not bother with insane twists, intrigues. Tolkien gave us such story that itself didn't need to try hard to impress the reader or watcher. In Lotr twists did not blow our minds, it was the world's itself. The history blew our minds, epic stories did. It was built in such a great way it did not need cliches, love stories pushing in our faces, people betraying each other in every step. It didn't have much of a grey characters who stood between good and evil. Maybe Saruman but he was corrupted and turned evil permanently .LOTR had a story to tell. A simple, straight story. To destroy the evil. And Tolkien told that story perfectly it did not need anything else. It was completely amazing by itself. And the possibility is that you can find many other stories like LOTR in it's universe. Thats my friends is richness.
Okay so obviously we have here a man that has managed to write superior lore with solid extensive world building unlike what has been effectively executed since Tolkien.Martin is his own worst enemy. Game of Thrones could have gone down in history as the successor to Lord of the Rings , but because of the elements he decided to include he has excluded himself from the fantasy literature pantheon. In short , Martin you could have left your psychologically disturbing fetishes out of the book. So much talent wasted on chasing after shock value. I give him credit where credit is due , but it upsets me how much he has added to the genre while simultaneously destroying it as well. Guys...dragons are over and used up , put the dragons to bed for a while and bring them out in 20 years or so. The male antiheroes are too many to count and they aren't shocking anymore. Just to name two trends which Martin executed well, but all the copycats are exhausting to read. I can't find a good fantasy book anymore because all the mediocre writers that love GOT all think they are going to be the next Eragon or Daenerys spin off. Eragon is a terribly written book. Martin's writing style is damn near unreadable. All the aspiring fantasy writers are chasing after terrible writing and overused tropes. Stop ruining the fantasy genre. We need to reintroduce standards. Fantasy literature has long historic past and people don't take the time to learn the subject . I mean seriously what goes through these guy's heads? OOhh I know a mage and a dragon ..that will knock their socks off! Really.....really......
You must misunderstand the point of a song of ice and fire. Though GoT is labeled as fantasy (since that is the genre for made up worlds) it is more like fictional history. Medieval ages in our world were disgusting and crude. Martin wanted to elaborate on that idea. Those weren't his fetishes. Take a look at history and you'll find so much more disturbing stuff. It's a different kind of fantasy. It is not like a mythos or a tale. It is more grounded in historical reality. Though I like Lord of the Rings more you can't compare it to Martin's works. They are just different. And most of those trope writers have never read lotr or the silmarillion and that's why the language is so terrible. Most of them just played a few videogames and think they know all things about the genre. Has nothing to do with martin. He just influenced the style a little bit.
@@kekky2033 You're so right I've done a little more research and I see what you mean. He's doing something wildly different and cool , but yet you can't ignore the fantastical elements? Are you saying he is mixing historical fiction with fantasy? All fantasy tends to draw from historical sources in some way so that's why I'm asking. I'm aware of the War of the Roses connection already , but to me Martin is simply presenting gritty realistic fantasy , but then again so did Tolkien. Tolkien drew heavily from the Medieval sources as well, but he just glossed over the gritty realism in favor of a more ethereal mythological world. I mean is Martin's adherence to gritty realism that much more impressive than Tolkien's deviation from it? I'm glad you responded to my comment because you've given me a lot more to think about and honestly I have misrepresented what I thought Martin was doing. Gosh my mind is doing summersaults right now because I can see that I've missed something fundamentally important about Martin. Thanks a lot I will be researching this for hours now. As if I need something else to obsess over....
@@hydraelectricblue the way I see it Tolkien and Martin had rather different topics. Tolkien wrote more about myths (beowulf, gilgamesh and of biblical stuff too) whereas martin was basically presenting a parallel historical world with minor fantastical elements. You can notice that too. A Song of Ice and Fire takes place on a world known as the "known world" or by the maesters known as "planetos". It feels like you are seeing it from the eyes of a medieval person living there. There are only 2 known continents and the rest of it you don't see. Arda (tolkiens world) is a mystical, prehistoric earth. The End of the Fourth Age happens about 6000 years before the 20th century.
Tolkien wrote what he loved, never bothering about the sales. His stories had a message. Martin writes what is sellable and what is sellable is rape, foursome sex, beheadings, and dragons in a star wars universe. Fifty shades of Gray and the Twilight series was also popular as hell when they came out. Tolkien was a writer. Martin is a businessman. How plain can this get?
Willy Wonka STFU all of you, You can't consider yourself to love and respect Tolkien for the grandfather of fantasy of you refuse to read any other fantasy that was inspired by him.
Robert Moore that’s a load of shit because Tolkien was one of martins inspirations. Aswell as the hobbit/Lotr and the ice and fire series are incredibly different in the sense of game of thrones is a more political semi-fantasy world with serious character traits as it deals with incest and family houses. Where as Tolkien portrays a rich world with heavy fantasy elements. You’re not going to find a wizard in i&f because you get maesters, where as lotr you get gandalf, sauroman and radigast aswell as the two blues.
there will never be another Tolkien....never ever ever......a lot have tried but have fallen way short....Mr. Martin is no where near Tolkien's level....sorry, just the truth.
Agreed (though I'm actually trying to reverse engineer his techniques). Probably the closest to him are CS Lewis and Frank Herbert. I don't think we can expect to see anything so unique as Tolkien's work ever again.
Not necessarily, fantasy doesn't have to be more realistic to be better ; that statement is kind of contradictory. I guess in some way the less realism can suggest more creativity and uniqueness.
Finrod Númenessë Howard didn't invent his languages upon which he built his world. Howard didn't create a world as rich or as consistent as Tolkien. Howard didn't write a story as good as Tolkien. Tolkien's writing style is superior to Howard's. Comparing the two is unfair.
Darth 95 Both are superior to each other in different ways. Those who say Tolkien is better are just blindfolded fanatics like Twilight fans. The reason why Tolkien gets a lot of acclaim (as he should) is that he started it all...he's the father of modern fantasy. But there are many weaknesses in his works that people completely don't want to talk about because it is a flaw in this god Tolkien. Tolkien didn't develop characters worth shit. He never provided minor details, or some good convos between characters. All he did was develop his world from page to page and on and on his world building went and that gets boring af for a modern reader. There's that eagle flaw in the plotline itself that I want to deny myself like all these butthurts by bringing in some random out-of-the-way crap in in order to prove my statements.
Tanveer Ahmad I disagree with all the characters in Tolkiens Legendarium to be utter shit I mean there are quite a few good ones IMO like Turin Tumbar or Beren or even Borimir I'm a big Tolkien fan but I'm not a blind buthurt like you seem to almost think all Tolkien fans are I recognize Tolkien isn't perfect there are some flaws in his work (the Eagles plothole being a prime example of that but tbh when Tolkien wrote TLOTR I didn't think he even foresaw it being a plothole but it's still a flaw nontheless ) and Tolkien's world building I would have to disagree that its boring IMO its so beautiful and magistic and great and is IMO some of if not the greatest world building that has ever been written in Literature but in the end its all your opinion and you keep it :)
Tanveer Ahmad and also don't call people who personally think Tolkien is better fanatics as well its there own opinion too for me I think Tolkien is better *in my opinion* but I love ASOIAF but I'm not that devoted to it as I am to Tolkien's works
fans of Tolkien,of Martin,my brothers. i see in your eyes the same fear that would take the heart of me,a day may come when the production of books fails, when we forsake our authors and break all bonds of fellowship,but it's not this day, an hour of internet and crappy shows when the age of reading comes crashing down but it''s not this day this day we read,by all that you hold dear on this good Earth, i bid you stand men/women of literature
We need more people like you on this planet
Jessica Gadbury thank you
gary kearney FOR LITERATURE!!!!!! (charges at an army of television show characters standing on the morannon)
Do you know what being literate is, Lord Snow? It's being second-guessed by every clever little illiterate with a mouth. But when you start second-guessing yourself that's the end. For you, for the clever little illiterates, for everyone.
DEAAAAAATHHHHHH!
Tolkien said about fairy tales that they are "stories about Fairy, that is Faerie, the realm or state in which fairies have their being. Faerie contains many things besides elves and fays, and besides dwarfs, witches, trolls, giants, or dragons: it holds the seas, the sun, the moon, the sky; and the earth, and all things in it; tree and bird, water and stone, wine and bread, and ourselves, mortal men, when we are enchanted."
So, considering Tolkien undoubtedly read a lot more than Martin this regard, I feel safe to say Tolkien definitely wrote fairy tales with The Hobbit and LotR. I am , of course, disregarding the very limited definition Martin has of the genre. But I think Tolkien would want us to set our prejudices aside about what fairy stories are. Too many limitations are laid upon them by defining them as we do now.
"On Fairy Stories" is a brilliant essay by Tolkien by the way.
Neil Gaiman sometimes still writes fairytale of the older kind.
Thank you I will be devouring this! Martin is not on par with Tolkien though.
Why say things like "omg tolkien was so much better this guy sucks"? I'm a huge fan of Middle-Earth; Tolkiens' work holds a very special place in my heart. No other piece of literature will replace it for me, but to say everything else is therefore shit is a stupid thing to say. What would you rather have? Many different takes on creating a second world by many different authors? Or no more new fantasy literature for the rest of time?
Wow, you are intelligent. Not many people are able to look at the bigger picture, too close- minded our society is. I applaud this comment
The fact she could compare the silmarillion to that book is proof she has never read either. One is a fun coffee table and the other was a magnum opus of 40 years.
One was made with fans over email, the other made with match light during trench warfare.
To be fair you can see George cringe when she compares the two.
Harrison Cortis I only read the trilogy and the hobbit. Is the silmarillion worth the read ? Heard it is difficult since I'm not a native english speaker
it's probably one of the most satisfying reads of my life..
Tolkien worked on the Silmarillion for over 60 years you know.
@@MisterCatMan Don't konw. I read Silmarillion in polish (I'm from Poland) and I don't think it's harder than Lord of The Rings. To be fair i have no idea how it is in english. Just try, because, to me, Silmarillion is one of the most amasing books I've ever read.
Martins made books that predate asoiaf, that to me is his silmarilion, the story that predates the story we already know. So the soiaf is more like his lord of the rings of books. They have similar concepts where people are fighting over an object, in lord of the rings it’s the one ring and in asoiaf is the iron throne.
I personally don’t know exactly the factual evidence and whatnot, that Tolkien had written the silmarillion in the trenches of ww1. He did write a book of lost tales and a bit of the hobbit (based the hobbit off his experience in ww1) during the war but idk about the silmarillion specifically.
Tolkien > Martin
Martin still good though
In terms of prose, Clark Ashton Smith > both of them.
Whoops. I mean the three of them.
JRR Tolkien is called the ''father of fantasy'', but because someone has great quality's in his stories doesn't mean the others don't. I think if you look closely, every fantasy story has a bit of Tolkien in it.
Tolkien > everybody else. He's even a better writer than the Russian and American greats.
Yea, but why need to say that one is better. Its like comparing the son to his father. Tolkein is "father" of fantasy, Martin took that fantasy and made it his own and expanded it beyond imagination of everyday people.
I like both of their works (Tolkien and Martin's), I concider Tolkien's legendarium superior but Martin's is also great, probably second only to Tolkien
Heavy praise from a great man. There is a reason both have RR in names..
Tolkien is the Master when it comes to epic fantasy. The American answer to Tolkien is Robert E. Howard and Frank Herbert. Why do people forget that? Next in line would be Robert Jordan.
Agreed. I have not read any Dune books as I am more of a fantasy fan than science fiction. However, I have read all of the Conan books written by Robert E. Howard and those completed by L. Sprague De Camp and have to say this is my second favorite fantasy universe after Middle Earth. It may not be as big of an "ice berg" as George Martin put it, but is almost as enjoyable. Pity Howard died so young. He may have been able to create a back story for the Hyborian age that would have been an amazing read.
Cyber Volk I think this is the only smart comment I have EVER read on UA-cam, EVER. Long live Hyboria, long live the Duniverse. Have everything all three have ever written
Manic Exorcism the main reason I think why game of thrones outshines them is because it’s so real. There’s no hero narrative, it’s a world our ancestors lived in. We connect with this world far more than those who fly space ships or can do magic.
Amy Lorenzo I beg to disagree , those dummies they have mentioned are waay better , because they are older.
That throne looks incredibly menacing.
it does doesn't it? haha.
Imagine it's throbbing erection at 11 P.M.
Im a big Tolkien fan as they come but didnt get why people insult or compare Mr Martin here.He explained how much complex was Tolkiens material with humility.I think the world of ice and fire is a better series than lord of the rings in its on way.But people got to understand lord of the rings is one of the many side stories which was born from Silmarillion.Tolkiens world is so grand and complex and because unfornately he was a "secondborn" (Men) his lifespan wasnt enough to complete this giant project.I always find myself thinking how amazing it would be if he could live for a thousand years...and i could read a new chapter of silmarillion after watching Freddie Mercurcy live :) or maybe i "imagine" too much ..
LotR was born from The Hobbit, not The Silmarillion. At the time Tolkien started to write LotR, they were separated in his mind from the Silmarillion. During the writing process the two works, but especially LotR, were pulled into the world of the Silmarillion and both were influencing each other in major ways. It's even part of the reason why The Silmarillion was never finished.
I don't think Tolkien would want to be immortal, but it would be a fundamentally different bibliography if he was, due to fundamentally different views on life and death, and many other things along with many experiences in life.
I know, right? No one's gonna come close to Tolkien's level of world building. It's just mind boggling how vast it is. And we all know this guy wasn't done lol.
J. R. R. Tolkien and George R. R. Martin will always fascinate me with there stories.
I see Martin as a accomplished scholar of Tolkien and its great. Martin holds great deal of respect to him and never shy away to be called as an influenced person.
Imo Martin is secondary only to Tolkien when it comes to fantasy. The two men are geniuses when it comes to write and the world of ice and fire and middle earth are the two most perfectly crafted fantasy worlds ever created. Martin is the true successor to Tolkien imo
I don't know why, my I'm mesmerised by the way his mouth moves when he talks.
There is Tolkien, Martin and Sapkowski.
+PA Could not have said it better myself.
Havent started sapkowski yet, are the books any good in english? :)
sapkowski is awful
Sapkowski is pretty meh. The writers on the Witcher games actually did a much better job with his character.
What about Frank Herbert. The author of Dune and it's sequels
MARTIN IS STILL FANTASTIC GUYS CMON
I think this proves why the books will always be better than the tv show.
And the movies
For lotr.
@@athalonARC the movies are not that bad, they did the best job of adaptation, better than bakshi
@@kevinmorrice
I'm not saying the movies are bad (their on of my favourites), its just that it does not have some of the things the books do.
@Kevin Morrice not that bad? the movies are wonderful wdym
Man I feel out of place.
All of these folks are here talking about literature and I’m just a deadhead here to listen to him talk about the dead.
same
I haven't watched any game of thrones on TV. ..really look forward to reading the books
I haven't read RR Martin, so I can't speak about him with an informed opinion, but I very much doubt he's in the same league as Tolkien. Someone tried to make that claim about Brian Herbert & Kevin J Anderson over one of the Dune Sequels they wrote. I did actually enjoy the Dune sequel, but in no way is it on the level of Tolkien. To do what Tolkien did, you must be deeply connected with the history and myth of your culture, as well as the land, and you must love your cultural and heritage. Most of the contemporary "western" writers don't do this. They are typically grounded in Critical Theory and post-modernism, in other words, PC gets in the way of things. The closest thing to Tolkien (not in terms of style but in term of quality), is anime. The Japanese writers are still good because they don't have a nonsense ideology keeping them from appreciating their own cultural roots. They're still proud, and because of that they're bold, and their writing is (usually).
one of the best editors in the business :3
i can never unsee that amazing epic iron throne
Man when I truly think of Epic Fantasy & Music in same breath...The Grateful Dead don't even enter..I would say Zeppelin, Rainbow, Rush, Yes.....
Hawkwind
Tolkien is the original. The original is most often the best.
Martin is a more modern interpreter of fantasy and good in his own right. He is good with twists and intricate plotting. He has assembled a massive fan base on his own. Give him credit. He's good.
Nobody compares a modern playwright with Shakespeare, don't compare Martin to Tolkien.
I hate these arguments which are about the comparison of the authors. Book readers must be smarter than that :(
Why people feel like they need to say that one is better then the other(Tolkein and Martin). Its like comparing the son to his father. Tolkein is "father" of fantasy, Martin took that fantasy and made it his own and expanded it beyond imagination of everyday people. In this interview you clearly see the admiration of Toklein by Martin.
Tolkien and Rowling are the best to me.
Tolkien, Lewis, & Martin here are top 3 fantasy literature geniuses(in my "opinion" lol) ...
Martin is my favorite though📖🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟
Godspeed.
I love this man. He has blessed humanity with one of the greatest stories ever told.
Too bad he'll die before he finishes it.
Kaleb Bowen Tell that to The Wheel of Time
Elias Reiniat I haven't read those, are they good?
Eru Illuvatar He has already told the TV show makers how it ends in case of that matter, and somebody else who relates to his books. Not sure who.
it'll end up like The Walking Drum, a great story that was never fully finished.
grateful dead question is @ 9:32
thank you
The throne in the book would be a like a lifeguard's chair.
Isn't Martin's work more complex when it comes to politics and more character driven compare to Tolkien's? That's what true fans of ASOIAF actually like.
he says in another video he took tolkiens ideals and added a relatable human element to them
I like LotR more than GoT, but martin seems a lot nicer than both Tolkiens^^
ohhhSmooth Lol u mean? Do you even know the Tolkien? Like know, know...
What are you even talking about? Tolkein is described from both friends and children us a gentle,smooth,nice man that had a great love for nature.
Tolkien is better than martin ......THE END
Care to explain...?
ahmad bubshait People like you are the reason why mankind is sometimes considered worth shit.
ahmad bubshait let's say to be fair -Tolkien is the Master and Brooks,Martin, Salvador, ..ect are his pupils
I'd rather look at it like fantasy books and books in general are dying. For eons People have used books for wisdom. But slowly we are dumbing our minds by using the internet. So i'd rather not compare the two Authors.
Meh. I wouldn't compare them like that... Their works are too different. Martin is much better at creating complex characters, and a whole, believable and functioning work... Tolkien created a story more reminiscent to legends and myths, with familiar creatures; both are good in their own way, though not really comparable, are they?
Personally, I prefer the depth, complexity and unpredictableness of Martin's works in many ways, for exactly that.
But I'll happily admit, that Tolkien's works has a lot, that Martin's don't - it's just impossible to have strengths without weaknesses.
wait does George R.R. Martin not have eyebrows?? oO
+Wolfbane_41 Some people's eyebrows disappear with age, others' continue growing thicker.
0:46 CantStopGiggling
tad Williams, Robin Hobb, brandon Sanderson,Sean Russell, Roger zelazney, Patrick rothfuss, Robert Jordan,John Marco,Brent weeks,Peter v Bret,Gene wolf,Steven Erickson,....ok, anyone else??
tolkien all da way
oh, man, it's a shame tolkien did not lived in this era, so we would have nice interviews like this with him LOL
He's probably better off NOT seeing this horrendous time period.
Fascinating to learn that Gilgamesh is a ballad.
It's not
HoneyBadger woooosh
The fact that this woman compared RR Martin to Tolkien shows that she (at most) only has a bare surface understanding of Tolkien and his lore. I haven't read RR Martin, so I can't make a solid analysis of his work, but he if is writing his lore/history AFTER he wrote his stories then he's not using Tolkien's methodology. Tolkien wrote all the lore first, then wrote Hobbit and LOTR.
I cut my teeth on Tolkien, enjoyed Middle Earth a lot, but by my mid teens I was vastly sick of 'High / Epic Fantasy' with a few exceptions (Tolkien, Feist, and much later, George Martin). How many three-foot-wide, multi-tomed 'High Fantasy' series do you need to labour through before concluding the vast majority are nothing more than strenuously verbose, thinly-disguised Middle Earth rip-offs: the same old races & characters under different names, regurgitated by literary necromancers over and over, driven by the insatiable demand of the undiscerning, unsophisticated masses. Belgariad, Shannara, Wheel of Time...if I yawned any harder I'd need my jaw rewired.
I prefer Michael Moorcock, Robert E. Howard, Terry Pratchett, Neil Gaiman, Darryl Schweizer, Gene Wolfe. Gygax's Gord the Rogue, even :) Anyway, some reading recommendations if you're interested:
TOLKIEN POSITIVE:
Interesting discussion on Tolkien through the lens of Gnosticism: 'Stephan A. Hoeller talks about the Lord of the Rings' (UA-cam)
TOLKIEN NOT-SO-POSITIVE
- 'Epic Pooh' by Michael Moorcock. Free PDF (Google is your friend) 13-page critique of Tolkien.
('Starship Stormtroopers' by MM is worth a read if you like the above)
PS: The novels upon which 'The Witcher' games are based are shameless rip-offs of Moorcock's Elric of Melnibone: *BOYCOTT BOTH!*
PPS: I live in New Zealand; growing up, I felt it'd make the perfect setting for LOTR...I was right ;) Very proud of the LOTR movies / rather embarrassed by the utter nonsense Hobbit trilogy.
Knowing UA-cam,there is a battle between fans of Tolkiens Legedarium and A Song of ice and fire.
Just remember to not mention the tv show and movie adaptations because they are nothing compared to the books.
Edit:spelling error
Since everyone is comparing LOTR and GOT. I must say I love both at first. Game of Thrones is a breath taking adventure with mind blowing twists, intrigues. It creates an amazing bond between us and characters. So many characters. So many eyes to settle and look at the world on their POV. Yet Tolkien just like Martin says creates a history which is as real as any existing history of the real world. Tolkien did not bother with insane twists, intrigues. Tolkien gave us such story that itself didn't need to try hard to impress the reader or watcher. In Lotr twists did not blow our minds, it was the world's itself. The history blew our minds, epic stories did. It was built in such a great way it did not need cliches, love stories pushing in our faces, people betraying each other in every step. It didn't have much of a grey characters who stood between good and evil. Maybe Saruman but he was corrupted and turned evil permanently .LOTR had a story to tell. A simple, straight story. To destroy the evil. And Tolkien told that story perfectly it did not need anything else. It was completely amazing by itself. And the possibility is that you can find many other stories like LOTR in it's universe. Thats my friends is richness.
LOTR!!!
I cant believe fans of Tolkien have to enlist profanities to comment on this thread and forum,,,shame shame,,,
Why do they compare Martin to Tolkien. Martin will never be at par with Tolkien. Honestly people just watch his series because of the mature scenes.
Tolkien is better than Martin RIGHT NOW he’s still alive and there are still maybe 10 books left unwritten so far
People need to get over themselves and quit this Tolkien circlejerk
A Song of Ice n Fire series. Best that ever was, I acknowledge "Tolkien", but GRRM is something else
I like both writers, Tolkien was good in his own way but he was more fairytale than Martin, Martin is more of a realistic writer
Josh 2k2 the genre's called fantasy, it's ment to be unrealistic.
J0sh 2k2 I agree i like both, but i love that george used fantasy elements but still created a more realistic world.
I do straitly charge ye all to read!
Nobody knew who the f*
Okay so obviously we have here a man that has managed to write superior lore with solid extensive world building unlike what has been effectively executed since Tolkien.Martin is his own worst enemy. Game of Thrones could have gone down in history as the successor to Lord of the Rings , but because of the elements he decided to include he has excluded himself from the fantasy literature pantheon. In short , Martin you could have left your psychologically disturbing fetishes out of the book. So much talent wasted on chasing after shock value. I give him credit where credit is due , but it upsets me how much he has added to the genre while simultaneously destroying it as well.
Guys...dragons are over and used up , put the dragons to bed for a while and bring them out in 20 years or so. The male antiheroes are too many to count and they aren't shocking anymore. Just to name two trends which Martin executed well, but all the copycats are exhausting to read. I can't find a good fantasy book anymore because all the mediocre writers that love GOT all think they are going to be the next Eragon or Daenerys spin off. Eragon is a terribly written book. Martin's writing style is damn near unreadable. All the aspiring fantasy writers are chasing after terrible writing and overused tropes. Stop ruining the fantasy genre. We need to reintroduce standards. Fantasy literature has long historic past and people don't take the time to learn the subject .
I mean seriously what goes through these guy's heads? OOhh I know a mage and a dragon ..that will knock their socks off! Really.....really......
You must misunderstand the point of a song of ice and fire. Though GoT is labeled as fantasy (since that is the genre for made up worlds) it is more like fictional history. Medieval ages in our world were disgusting and crude. Martin wanted to elaborate on that idea. Those weren't his fetishes. Take a look at history and you'll find so much more disturbing stuff. It's a different kind of fantasy. It is not like a mythos or a tale. It is more grounded in historical reality. Though I like Lord of the Rings more you can't compare it to Martin's works. They are just different.
And most of those trope writers have never read lotr or the silmarillion and that's why the language is so terrible. Most of them just played a few videogames and think they know all things about the genre. Has nothing to do with martin. He just influenced the style a little bit.
@@kekky2033 You're so right I've done a little more research and I see what you mean. He's doing something wildly different and cool , but yet you can't ignore the fantastical elements? Are you saying he is mixing historical fiction with fantasy? All fantasy tends to draw from historical sources in some way so that's why I'm asking. I'm aware of the War of the Roses connection already , but to me Martin is simply presenting gritty realistic fantasy , but then again so did Tolkien. Tolkien drew heavily from the Medieval sources as well, but he just glossed over the gritty realism in favor of a more ethereal mythological world. I mean is Martin's adherence to gritty realism that much more impressive than Tolkien's deviation from it? I'm glad you responded to my comment because you've given me a lot more to think about and honestly I have misrepresented what I thought Martin was doing. Gosh my mind is doing summersaults right now because I can see that I've missed something fundamentally important about Martin. Thanks a lot I will be researching this for hours now. As if I need something else to obsess over....
@@hydraelectricblue the way I see it Tolkien and Martin had rather different topics. Tolkien wrote more about myths (beowulf, gilgamesh and of biblical stuff too) whereas martin was basically presenting a parallel historical world with minor fantastical elements. You can notice that too. A Song of Ice and Fire takes place on a world known as the "known world" or by the maesters known as "planetos". It feels like you are seeing it from the eyes of a medieval person living there. There are only 2 known continents and the rest of it you don't see. Arda (tolkiens world) is a mystical, prehistoric earth. The End of the Fourth Age happens about 6000 years before the 20th century.
Tolkien wrote what he loved, never bothering about the sales. His stories had a message.
Martin writes what is sellable and what is sellable is rape, foursome sex, beheadings, and dragons in a star wars universe. Fifty shades of Gray and the Twilight series was also popular as hell when they came out.
Tolkien was a writer.
Martin is a businessman.
How plain can this get?
What Tolkien wrote isn't a fantasy world. He wrote an entire mythology for our world.
Next time build a model and green screen the model.
3:25
talk about Tom bombA
This guy is a Tolkien wannabe. He ain't dog shit.
Except he doesn't write anything like Tolkien and even out right admits that he doesn't write or want to write like Tolkien did.
Mario Lancellotti Tolkien wanna be? 😂
Better go and get a brain checkup.
He even copied his 2 Rs!
Life is built from inspiration. Martin took inspiration from Tolkien. Now we have two beautiful stories to read. Asoiaf and Lotr.
You're right, he's not dog shit, he's an excellent writer.
All he does is talk about Tolkien, he's just basically trying to copy him.
Martin's nods to & thefts from Tolkien are an essential part of making the sale.
Eureka Opium They asked him about Tolkien so what was he supposed to do? Avoid talking about Tolkien, proving himself a butthurt like yourself?
They asked him precisely because he bases himself so much on him. He's just a bandwagon writer
lol it's not wrong at all, this guy is obsessed with Tolkien. Too many ressemblances
Eureka Opium Tolkien laid the foundation on how to write a perfect fantasy world and Martin and many other fantasy writers are following those steps.
He doesn't even deserve to speak Tolkien's name.
Not even close.
Close to the work of Tolkien...I beg to disagree. Its a big disgrace to Tolkien!
Willy Wonka STFU all of you, You can't consider yourself to love and respect Tolkien for the grandfather of fantasy of you refuse to read any other fantasy that was inspired by him.
Willy Wonka G.R.R Martin is his own fantasy author the same as C.S Lewis, Tolkien ect.
Robert Moore that’s a load of shit because Tolkien was one of martins inspirations. Aswell as the hobbit/Lotr and the ice and fire series are incredibly different in the sense of game of thrones is a more political semi-fantasy world with serious character traits as it deals with incest and family houses. Where as Tolkien portrays a rich world with heavy fantasy elements. You’re not going to find a wizard in i&f because you get maesters, where as lotr you get gandalf, sauroman and radigast aswell as the two blues.
Martin is a cheap knock off of Tolkien
Oh look... another member of the Tolkien circlejerk club
there will never be another Tolkien....never ever ever......a lot have tried but have fallen way short....Mr. Martin is no where near Tolkien's level....sorry, just the truth.
Agreed (though I'm actually trying to reverse engineer his techniques). Probably the closest to him are CS Lewis and Frank Herbert. I don't think we can expect to see anything so unique as Tolkien's work ever again.
HBO ruined the story I’m so many ways.
the more realistic fantasy (!!) the better. so, it's Martin.
Messiah de jude wrong
Not necessarily, fantasy doesn't have to be more realistic to be better ; that statement is kind of contradictory. I guess in some way the less realism can suggest more creativity and uniqueness.
Messiah de jude What an idiotic statement.
I like mature shit so I pick martin as the best
DEVILBREED901 Clearly, you have not read the Silmarilion.
So mature I cuss due to lack of vocabulary and have a clown skull pic to match my equally mature name of DEVILBREED...
What about Robert E Howard. He owns Tolkien.
kenneth mcgriff Read his books and find out. He was the first then came Tolkien. The debate over Howard vs Tolkien will always be discussed
kenneth mcgriff Your saying Tolkien is better than Howard. No fucking way.
qr.ae/0bawJ
This should clear things up.
Akathran Nethagrûl And your point is.
Finrod Númenessë Howard didn't invent his languages upon which he built his world. Howard didn't create a world as rich or as consistent as Tolkien. Howard didn't write a story as good as Tolkien. Tolkien's writing style is superior to Howard's.
Comparing the two is unfair.
I think there both equals
Darth 95 Both are superior to each other in different ways. Those who say Tolkien is better are just blindfolded fanatics like Twilight fans.
The reason why Tolkien gets a lot of acclaim (as he should) is that he started it all...he's the father of modern fantasy. But there are many weaknesses in his works that people completely don't want to talk about because it is a flaw in this god Tolkien.
Tolkien didn't develop characters worth shit. He never provided minor details, or some good convos between characters. All he did was develop his world from page to page and on and on his world building went and that gets boring af for a modern reader. There's that eagle flaw in the plotline itself that I want to deny myself like all these butthurts by bringing in some random out-of-the-way crap in in order to prove my statements.
Tanveer Ahmad you are gay
Tanveer Ahmad I disagree with all the characters in Tolkiens Legendarium to be utter shit I mean there are quite a few good ones IMO like Turin Tumbar or Beren or even Borimir I'm a big Tolkien fan but I'm not a blind buthurt like you seem to almost think all Tolkien fans are I recognize Tolkien isn't perfect there are some flaws in his work (the Eagles plothole being a prime example of that but tbh when Tolkien wrote TLOTR I didn't think he even foresaw it being a plothole but it's still a flaw nontheless ) and Tolkien's world building I would have to disagree that its boring IMO its so beautiful and magistic and great and is IMO some of if not the greatest world building that has ever been written in Literature but in the end its all your opinion and you keep it :)
Tanveer Ahmad and also don't call people who personally think Tolkien is better fanatics as well its there own opinion too for me I think Tolkien is better *in my opinion* but I love ASOIAF but I'm not that devoted to it as I am to Tolkien's works
Tanveer Ahmad dude, did you not read any of the back story? He developed the heck out of races and nations
I haven't watched any game of thrones on TV. ..really look forward to reading the books
James Kane You did well. I watched the tv shows and I wish I red the books before