Quick Tip: 6.8 SPC vs 6.5 Grendel
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- Опубліковано 31 лип 2024
- Our roving Brownells Gun Tech, Caleb Savant, is back to conduct another "caliber comparison" for us. This time, it's two AR-15 cartridges: the 6.5 Grendel and the 6.8 SPC (aka 6.8mm Remington SPC - "Special Purpose Cartridge"). The 6.5 Grendel has a high-ballistic coefficient .264" bullet, while the 6.8 SPC has a larger-diameter .277" bullet. Both have the same 2.26" OAL as the AR-15's standard .223 Remington / 5.56 NATO round. The big difference is the 6.5 Grendel's faster velocity and flatter trajectory. With the same bullet weight, it'll be about 100 fps faster than the 6.8 SPC. At a 100-yard zero, the 6.5 Grendel will drop about 8.5" at 300 yards, while the 6.8 SPC will drop 10.5" at the same range. The Grendel has about 200 ft-lbs. more energy both at the muzzle and downrange. The 6.8 is a bit better on close-in targets, while the 6.5 is better for reaching out to more distant targets. Caleb to favoring one of them..... Which is yours? Tell us in the comments below.
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Someone may have already said it, but it's great to live in a country where we can have these discussions.
If we keep fighting for it!
@@brownells Amen to that
@@brownells
It looks like we have a tough fight ahead
We all need to do more. I don't want to get political here but the opposing side can hold protests at a minutes notice yet I've literally only seen one protest from our side and that was Virginia.
@@michaelenochs4033 Because we have jobs
I do believe that if you fired both of them out of a 16 inch barrel the 6.8 special is going to have a higher muzzle velocity. However the 6.5 Grendel has a higher ballistic coefficient and sectional density so it will retain its velocity further. For inside of about 300 yd I would prefer to have the 6.8, but anything past that and I think the 6.5 Grendel is going to start having a serious advantage
This is true. Factory testing for the 6.5 Grendel is done on the 24" barrel. Factory testing for 6.8 SPC is done on a 16". This is what gives the box number discrepancy.
6.8 SPC is optimized for shorter barrels than is the 6.5 Grendel.
People seem to forget this. Even without realword testing - Hornady's numbers for 6.8 with 120 SSTs use a 16" barrel, and the 6.5 with 123 SSTs use a 24" barrel...... 6.8 for me
@@briansummerlin8897 I just put that in my comment above. A little deceptive information stating the the bullet with an 8 inch barrel length difference is faster. But, I feel Brownells just overlooked the test barrel length & was unintentional. The 6.8 is actually faster at the muzzle. But, the Gredel's BC catches it at around 400 yards.
@Mike Stennett Not so for longer barrels.
Did he mention max pressure difference between the two. The ONLY thing the grendel has going for it is bullet selection, and that's a big enough difference for some people to own a 6-5 Grendel,
@@jjack4225 I don't think so. The 6.8 SPC & SPC II has 2 different max pressure (6.8 SPC Official = 55k & unofficial SPC II = 58Kish {Proof testing=70k} YMMV, so, always do a ladder load).
I have a 6.5 Grendel and mine likes the cheap Wolf 100 grain ammo !!! Thank you God for that one !! At $5,99 a box instead of $20.00 a box I get to shoot a lot more !!!
Where r you finding your ammo?
@@anthonymurphy1624 I bought mine from Sportsmans Guide before all this crap kicked off !!!
What barrel are you using? I have a 1/8 twist I believe and I have to just accept that the 100g stuff will shoot 4-5in groups at 100 yards. The good stuff, I can damn fit a group under a dime. Ha, I'd love to shoot the cheap stuff like that.
I have a 11.5 barrel from adams arms with a 1/8 twist rate, i believe , i hand load 129 sst from Hornady bullets. I general get a 2 inch group at 100 yards, my main focus is getting 1/2 groups 50 yards and getting it cycling suppressed. Just started using a adjustable bootleg bcg and it made a world of difference for as reliability goes.
I am using an upper I bought from PSA that has a 12" barrel with a 1/8 twist !!
Am loving these Brownells vids. Thanks!
Rated specs for 6.8 is from 16", 24" for the 6.5. Haven't seen many 24" ARs out and about. Maybe for paper punching... Not for toting through the brush. This is important when comparing velocities and always seems to either be missed or glossed over when comparing the 2.
Truth! Well said!
Correct.. Seems everyone totally leaves this out when comparing.
I have an 18" 6.5 Grendel and my tested velocity with handloaded 123 gr bullets is 2,491 fps. My handloads are loaded rather conservatively fr safety reasons, so I'm sure that they could be loaded hotter. Even so, that still keeps me supersonic to 1,100 yards. Dropping from 18" to 14" gave Alexander Arms a muzzle velocity of 2,400 fps with a 123 gr bullet. At 1,000 yards it's still going 1,189 fps.
Just because the 6.5 Grendel makes maximum use of it's available power with a 24" barrel, doesn't mean it's ineffective with a shorter one.
22"-28" barreled rifles used to be the norm. 22" was considered short and started trending in the mid 20th Century for hunting rifles, especially Winchester's Featherweight series in the Model 70.
A lot of surplus rifles had 24-28" barrels. Guys like my grandpa would re-barrel them with a sporter profile pipe in some other cartridge, a new stock, re-blue them, do trigger work, install bases and rings, and top them with glass.
Brownell's really took off with that market for all the post-war gunsmithing that was popular in the US since we had such large imports of surplus rifles and healthy sales of domestic rifles.
One thing that era didn't have was the ability to collapse the stock like on an AR15.
If you wanted to, you could configure a 20-24" AR-15 in either of these cartridges and still have a relatively compact rifle.
There are a lot of people shooting 12"-16" 6.8s and Grendels with 7"-9" cans on the ends of them. Subtract .625" of thread length and add the pipe plus suppressor and we're back to over 24" with the 16" barrel, but somehow those folks don't have any trouble carrying them on their hunts.
I still went with the TBAC Ultra 5 on my 12" Grendel because I really do like a compact, lightweight set-up.
I know a lot of people shooting 6.8 prefer 12.5" for the same reason.
Others really like 20" for hunting. Choices, choices.. .
@@LRRPFco52 all true and good comment. They're not big here stateside but bullpup setups also give you a lot of barrel options while staying in an overall compact package. I'd love to add a Tavor 7 to the collection. I also would not want to run a can on a 24" AR. As you said that's a big part of the popularity of shorter barrels with many in use for hunting. 6.8 in particular was designed with that specific setup in mind (short barrel with can). I'm a 6.8 fan I'll admit it. I think it's a better hunting and combat round over 6.5 hands down. Both will do the job of course. 6.5 is a flatter flying round and that's why it's taken off in popularity but the real world trajectory performance of 2 identical AR builds with the only difference being 6.5 vs 6.8 are much closer than ppl realize, especially if shorter barrels are in use or if 6.8 is loaded to it's compression potential.
With the Grendel, ringing a 6” gong at 600 yards is almost boring.
Who would ever think that ringing a metal gong at 600 yds would get boring? I know exactly what you mean though... I have a 500yd spot in the woods with a 12in gong that is almost too easy to hit now.
Ringing a gong is boring, hog hunting is where it at.
Awesome video!
Love these rounds
Alooot faster is 100fps? Seems like someone is a bit one sided in this discussion, you should've mentioned how you can get full velocities in a 16" barrel with the 6.8 while the 6.5 requires a longer barrel. That is the reason I went with the 6.8, neither cartridge is great at long range work, that's not their design, if I'm worried about long range I'll grab a long action bolt gun. But for 250 yds and under I don't think the deer will notice a difference.
That is true unless your talking about a bullpulp design which getting a 20 inch barrel is easy.
@@drdes9609 that doesn’t changed what he said. Or the fact that you can get full velocities out of a shorter barrel. You would have a shorter rifle still in a bullpup.
You shouldn’t be shooting deer with either of these rounds. These rounds are designed for varmint control. Not deer.
@@faceious2006 so was the 25-06, .243, 22-250, 6mm, and .257 Roberts, plus quite a few more that are now considered great deer cartridges. 6.5 grendel is carrying over 1000 ftlbs of energy in a 123gr Hornady SST out to 400 yds. While the 6.8 SPC carries it out to 200 yds with a 130gr SST.
Some lady dropped an elk at almost 700 yards with a 243
You sir do not know what you’re talking about
can you please make a conperition between 6.5 and 6.8 but in 16 inch
berrel
My favorite aspect of the 6.5 Grendel is the availability of other platforms. I try to consolidate calibers and bought a CZ527 in 6.5. It's a fantastic rifle and the value I get from sharing a reloading setup is well worth it. Plus my 95 gr V-MAX reloads clock in close to 3100 fps.
I have a howa mini, its nice. Prefer the 100 grain for target loads (2800 fps or so), much flatter. 100 or 125 for hunting, but limit it to smaller animals and you are fine. It lacks the velocity to expand on longer ranges, so better go with lighter bullet and softer designs. In NTX loads 100 grain is the heaviest you should go as anything in the 120 range is to long and steals case capacity
@@jmkhenka The 129gr ABLR will deliver more expansion than most hunters can even think about exploiting. It opens up down to 1300fps, and has a crazy high BC.
Love my CZ American in 6.5
I also load 95gr V-max for my Grendel. Great coyote round.
Decided to do 2 builds in 6.5 grendel. One for my son, and one for me. His is his 21st birthday present, and mine is for my 50th. Both of us just had our birthdays this year, and the builds are still going. Lol! Money's tight these days and my boys in veterinary school. Money is waaaay tight. Anyway, thanks for the info on the cartridge.
6.5 is the best all around AR15 cartridge because it covers all the bases. Self defense, hunting, and superior long range ballistics.
Long range shooting was not a priority, so I ended up choosing the 6.8 SPC. For real work applications, I still think it’s the best Jack-of-all-trades AR-15 platform. Well, I’m starting to get the long range bug and I originally looked at the Valkyrie since it uses the same magazines as the SPC. A friend of mine has a 20” Grendel and I really like it. I’m now leaning towards getting the Grendel over the 224 now. You are correct that it has a wider range of abilities once you incorporate the long distance. I just never thought I’d want to shoot past 400 yards. So why not have both? 😀
They are both equally impressive at what they do. As I’ve stated in another post. Why not have the sports car and the 4x4 in the driveway?
grendel can be used on an ak platform too, (Zastava M19 which is legit a scar h, Zastava m70/m21 and M4A1 hybrid)
...except for CQB in 8-10" barrels.
@@crypto7ogic literally nothing wrong with it in a short barrel.
If you say so. 😊
Love them both honestly. I will typically switch uppers or just bring both rifles to say deer camp if that's what the hunt at the time is and choose my caliber based on where I'll be hunting or what kind of hunting I'll be doing. If I'm being the ol brush dog flushing game up I'll take the 6.8, if I'm perched I'll take the grendel. Now honestly I've switched to .350 legend for the real thick brush because I live in the PNW, we get some extremely thick undergrowth. I've actually walked within 3ft of a huge bedded bull elk and had no idea, after I was out of earshot he popped up and walked into my dad. Having that .350 sure is nice for the real thick old growth areas with ferns, bushy bullcap, and fallen trees taller than you are.
.350 Legend appears to be the 'go-to' Thump Gun of our age.
Elvis Rockabilly hair.. .. Good comparison and concise..
12.5" 6.8 & 20" 224 Valkyrie uppers to share bolts and mags.
The 6.5 Grendel is a great round!
Is the .224 Valkyrie a good combat round in your guys’s opinion, and why? Thanks
I loved the 6.* and the 3.8 Lapua mag..my first long shot. 1 mile.
Great video
Both are Great!
High BC is more about retaining energy on target at distance, than it is about "flying flatter"
Depends what barrel length you want. 6.8 does well in shorter barrels. 6.5 is best suited for longer barrels.
6.8 is my choice, it's all I've deer hunted with for 10 years. One shot one kill, exactly where I aim. I have failed but it has not. Ammo?? No problem, I reload 90- 115 gr several powders work great. No grendel for me. AR 10s 308/243
What are the barrel lengths for the compared speed/energy? How about out of a 10" barrel?
I had both. Sold the 6.8 to a friend that fell in love with the numbers. I also built him a 6.5 upper. Now hes in love with the 300 blk upoer i built him.
I love my ambush M4v7 6.8spc..I have taken it out to 800 yards with Hornady vmax and sst,running a nikon monarch 3, 4-16x50 with the bdc reticle
I have both and mainly use for hunting. Most of my shots are less than 300 yards and swinging steel plate do not curb my hunger. I would question the velocity as it is posted to make sure the same barrel length is same. I can attest that shooting both, the 6.8 is easier to reload for and is more reliable. I like the 6.5 Grendel. But my reloads are finicky. Every thing has to be just right or will have functioning issues. Both are great to shoot out of the ar-15 (the barbie doll of Guns!)
lonestarboars likes the 6.8. Guy shoots a lot.
we all know the saying about personal opinions...
Guy seems like a dink
@@TheREALLibertyOrDeath Jealous or? Why because he is successful? and you would have a hard time finding anyone who has killed with a gun more pigs then he has? Because he uses a 6.8 usually with a 12.5 inch barrel with a can or? Speaking of dinks check out your mirror!
I have both they are equal 300 yards and in. Wolf does make a steel case 6.5 grendel which makes it a better choice.
I hope we see 6.5 Grendel PMAGs soon.
Magpul wont ever make a pmag for grendel. The polymer is too thick to use. Something to do with lower capacity and feed lip geometry. Magpul has stated that they wont make one for grendel.
@@clearcreekdairygoats4135 that makes me sad. :(
Just use your 556 Pmag, works fine believe it or not. just a little reduction in capacity. I obviously have some of the Alexander 6.5 mags in 10 and 20 rds but was curious if the P mags would work. They do, ran about 100rds threw a p mag in my 6.5 the other weekend and was surprised to find it works fine, only can load about 17rds but hey it works. no malfunctions at all...
@@mikel9656 good to know, thanks! What generation of PMAG did you use?
Magpul has mad a statement that they can’t comment on their development when it came to 6.5 Grendel PMag but keep in mine the 30 round 6.5 mag will be closer to the 40 round gen 3 mag do to the polymer having to be so thick. Also if you have a 3D printer you can print a follower for a gen 3 mag tho i can’t tell you if it’s reliable or not because i can’t print it.
hello. we do appreciate the videos and please keep them coming.
when you stated 6.5 has more muzzle velo, which length barrel are you referring to?
in a 10.5" pistol the 6.8 has more, even more than 7x39.
the 6.5 may have a higher BC but no one really minds at pistol range
I caught that too, and I’m obviously a big proponent of 6.5 Grendel. That came off as biased against the 6.8 to me just from a technical standpoint, but I don’t think he meant to do that. I think he was just looking at published muzzle velocities without knowing that most box ammo mvs for Grendel are 24” barrels, whereas most 6.8 SPC data is for 16” barrels.
What I found with 16” Grendel is that a lot of the velocities overlap, depending on the barrel and ammo combo, just like 6.8 SPC. There used to be some loads from SSA that were purposely loaded well beyond the SAAMI MAP that would shoot fast from tight chambers. Then some barrel makers started playing with more shallow rifling to get more velocity bump without pushing pressure.
You can find the best comparisons from the same barrel shooting the same bullet weight. 6.5 Grendel 16” with 120-123gr does 2350-2480 depending on the barrel/load. I’ve had some 123gr Scenar factory ammo that did 2520fps from my 16” AA barrel, but I don’t list that since it isn’t representative of the vast majority of factory ammo.
6.8 SPC 16” barrel with 120gr Hornady SST factory ammo does 2460fps according to Hornady’s website. Other sources for ammo list their loads at 2450fps. Hand-loaders list most loads in the 2380-2520fps range, so you can cherry-pick the fastest from one and the slowest from the other with both of them to play that game, but they are so close that it looks pedantic to get wrapped up about it.
The higher BC of the 123gr SST will actually retain energy better even at close range, so even if you start a bit slower, it surpasses the 6.8 120gr SST somewhere within 25-150yds.
Both of them out-perform 7.62x39 for retained energy, and the Grendel shooting the exact same bullet weight from a 10.5”-12.5” barrel will smoke a full-length AK or SKS within 50-125yds. Frontal area of the 7.62x39 soft points gives you a good whack on-target though when you listen to them hit, but the actual energy from Grendel and 6.8 is more.
The overall package to beat is a Grendel pistol or SBR. It does everything from close quarters HD/truck gun, to hunting medium game, to reaching out much farther than you would think.
@P. Cameron One of the biggest things to consider right now is obviously ammo and component availability.
I was still seeing Hornady 6.8 SPC American Gunner in the 200rd ammo cans up until midway into Kung flu, then it disappeared. I've occasionally seen 20rd boxes of 6.8 Hornady 110gr V-MAX or 120gr SST at Cabella's, but it's sporadic. I'm now seeing 6.8 PPU at 80 cents/round on ammoseek.
Grendel flew off the shelves immediately and steel case went from 23 cents/round, to $2.00/round.
I'm now seeing PPU Grendel for $1.45/round. Why is Grendel more than 6.8 from the same manufacturer after getting to US retailers? Demand
I would look at your current inventory of brass and bullets to see if it surpasses a 500 piece count with each. Grafs has 120gr SST and 130gr Berger Classic Hunters in stock.
If you don't hand load, look at your inventory of 6.8 factory ammo.
For Grendel, the biggest practical advantage for shooters is/was steel case at 23cpr, until WuhanFlu.
The next biggest practical advantage is that you get 175gr .308 trajectory from an AR-15 with half the recoil, and 85% of the energy on-target.
If you're only limited to 500yds, it will depend on what region of the Nation you live in.
Deep South or Northeast/dense trees with mostly close ranges, it won't matter much.
Mountain West with wide open spaces, lots of wind? Grendel
If you want to chase the Grendel with 6.8, and have a tighter twist barrel, that 130gr Berger Classic Hunter will do well if you hand-load.
I have a boat load of Grendel brass and bullets, so I'm set until prices hopefully stabilize.
Anything 6.5mm bullet component-wise gets sold immediately.
@P. Cameron What barrel length and twist rate are you using?
Can a 5.56 mag be used for 6.5 Grendel? Are the feed lips different? Is the follower any different? The 6.5 rounds go in the mag, but I have not attempted to try and operate my 6.5 Grendel AR with it.
been looking to add one of these to my collection and hunt with would love to know the numbers on the same barrel length gun but what im hearing 6.8 spc is superior inside 400 yards and i dont shoot past 300 and i cant find grendel ammo but can find SPC
6.8 SPC, slightly larger bore with less powder, better for barrel life than 6.5 Gren. 6.8 better performance with wider range of powders than 6.5. 6.8 reaches velocity potential with shorter barrel than required for 6.5 to reach its potential. If you want long range precision, get a long range precision rifle and for that there are much much better 6.5mm such as 260 Remington and 6.5x55 Swede...also the 6.5 Creedwhatever (not a fan), but go ahead if you're into compromise.
yeah, you definitely see the compromises made in performance to get the Grendel to fit in an AR15. It's a very capable cartridge, but the 6.5mm space is full of a lot of better performers if long range is what you're after. If I wanted a thousand meter AR, I'd go for an AR10 pattern in 6.5 Creedmoor.
The 6.8 actually has about 2 grains more case capacity than the 6.5 Grendel and operates at 58,700 psi vs 52,000 psi for the Grendel. The Grendel has a weaker bolt face because it has to be rebated out more to accept the case and as a result operates at lower pressure.
Big fan of the Grendel!
My best accuracy and hunting load has been the 6.5 129gr SST... I' getting the same 2550 fps +/- but the energy is substantially more than the 123gr.
.5 MOA all day long. I can shoot the 107gr Sierra matchking at 100, and get smaller groups, but the wind plays a factor past 300. The 129gr SST doesn't seem to be as affected at 300-500 yards (the longest I've shot mine).
What barrel length are you using to get that kind of velocity with 129 grain bullets? I have an 18" barrel and only get 2390 fps with Hornady Black 123 grain ELD Match bullets.
I have a 6.5 Grendel and love it. Very accurate and much more power than a .223/5.56 with not much more recoil. Pleased with the JP Rifles match cryo barrel that I'm running this through. Better blood trail to find game when shot in the vitals than the .223/5.56 so more recovered game. I imagine the 6.8 SPC is about the same within 200 yards as mentioned below, but expect the 6.5G would edge it out further out (say 500+ yards). If I ever start reloading then the 6.5 G and my 6.5 Creedmoor use the same projectile which is a bonus. I am enjoying all of these AR-15 calibers coming to market like the 350 Legend, 224 Valkryie, etc. It is nice to have the variety in this lightweight platform. To me the one down side of the 6.5G is that the ammo is not cheap and that may be a consideration for the 6.5G ($24/box) vs 6.8 SPC ($ I'm unsure) debate. The other down side is you have to use 6.5G magazines and they are not that common and I have only found them in steel, but I think someone is starting to make polymer ones too. Really can't go wrong with either of these two cartridges.
Not true p mags work ,load em up to 15 rounds works fine
@@stevecampbell3175 For some people, not others. First time I tried it just for giggles and I couldn’t feed more than 3 successfully from PMAGs. I just got some Amend2 polymer Grendel mags, but they’re 10rd capacity. CProducts have worked for me all this time, so it doesn’t really matter. I’ve also watched countless people now run CProducts Grendel mags in multi-day courses and I honestly am unable to recall any malfunctions. I sure read about them online though. Hornady had something interesting to say about that with all of their testing, basically concluding that mags weren’t a problem across untold thousands of rounds across multiple rifles.
@@LRRPFco52 I prefer c products also and e lander mags are a hit and miss, your right pmags are also a hit or miss... but sure love the grendel though,,,,
I love my grendel but also gonna build a 6mm arc to go with it
Do you need a specific lower? Or can you use any lower and just buy a barrel/upper?
So which would you recommend over the other for deer?
His hair is spot on
Up to 300 yards and in,for hunting not a spit difference between them. I have both,but think the 6.8 spc is better suited to the ar bolt,with less chance of lugs breaking.
Lol Why would the lugs break?
Obviously you haven’t shot a high number of 6.5 grendel rds. The boltface has a lot of material removed around the lug area compared to the 6.8 spc. For a few hundred rds no big deal,you start getting in the thousands and a lug can crack and or break. I own both,and keep an extra bolt for the 6.5 just for that. Other than that great round!
I was a huge 6.8mm SPC fanboy and was saving to purchase one, but when the 6.5mm Grendel came out, or at least when I became aware of it, and reviewing the ballistics of it, I decided it was a better all around cartridge for me.
Hitting out to a 1000 yds-not that I’d ever need to, I hope-with a punch and able to take deer and boar with it, thus providing food for my family, and with enough kinetic energy to stop any threat of the biped type, within a reasonable and human distance, it just became the better choice for me. I also have a 5.56/.223 AR-15 variant and a .308 AR-10 variant, but I find myself going to my Grendel for most of my activities with the exception of 2-Gun, where .223 is just more cost effective to use.
Mach both are great rounds but within 300 they are almost identical with same barrel length and bullet type. 6.5 is a better overall round but 6.8spc is (in my opinion) better hunting option within 300, my area its dense steep terrain no shots over 200
Three HUGE FACTORS...application, weight of the firearm, and intended target.
What application are these rounds used for? Application is important because it impacts what you will carry...in terms of barrel length. If you are sitting at a bench for long range shooting, then you don't mind a 20-24" barrel, as you won't be carrying a gun that weighs as much as the 308 AR-10 vary far...and this is where the 6.5 is designed at typically tested with. If however you are using the gun for hunting or self defense, you will want a lighter weight gun...and to get that weight reduction, you will remove 4-8" of barrel length, or possibly more...and end up with a 12-16" barrel...and when one does that, the 6.8 shines over the 6.5 grendel in terms of delivering energy ON TARGET out to 300 yards...as physics prove a larger bore diameters are more efficient transfer into a projectile in short barrels at any given bullet weight while IN THE BARREL...while thinner barrels capture less energy initial energy at any specific bullet weight (which is why they have longer barrels to make up for that loss), the smaller diameter bullets do tend to main their energy longer after LEAVING the barrel because of better ballistic coefficients. When using the SAME 12-16" barrel length and SAME weight bullet, the 6.8 has a higher muzzle velocity, although there comes a point where they meet...and for these two calibers the the cross over is around 300-400 yards.
For these reasons, if one is using the gun for hunting or self defense, we have to consider gun weight distance to intended target. By "on target," we need to consider not just the speed of the bullet, but the actual energy transfer on target. And lets not overlook the fact that both rounds deliver insufficient energy to be an ethical choice for deer sized target beyond 400 yards.
In a light weight gun used at ethical hunting ranges for these calibers, the 6.8 delivers more energy on target. If you want to shoot game over 300 yards, get a more powerful caliber round...and with the right platform then not only will you have more power, but you may still have a gun that weighs less than a 20-24" 6.5 Grendel.
The 6.8 SPC also has better feeding reliability AND a stronger bolt.
For me and my application of hunting and self defense within 300 yards in a light weight gun, the 6.8 SPC is the clear winner.
Using factory ammo the 6.8 is apx 100fp faster than the Grendel using the same weight bullet and same length barrel. Out to 175 yards the 6.8 has more energy with 110 and 120gr loads. A 16" 6.8 loaded with factory Hornady 120gr SSTs has enough velocity to expand and energy to take deer and hogs at 400yds. The Grendel horde likes to say the 6.8 is a short range hunting round and the Grendel is long range...BS. Load a 130gr Berger Classic Hunter (BC .497), 130 Speer or Sierra BT in the 6.8 and it will push it to the same velocity as a 123gr 6.5 Grendel. The BCs are very close so the drop and drift will be very close way past ethical hunting distances.
@@APBT-Bandog Bravo Some people may think this comes off as being a FANBOY but I know that what you wrote is based on facts. Thank you
thank you
Thanks for watching!
I built a 6.8 SPC carbine last summer and burned my two buck tags with it this past season. Deadly with Win. Deer Season. Building a Grendel upper this summer in 20” to see how I like it.
Discussing the cartridge only (not the platform), how would you comparatively evaluate the 6.5x55mm Swede?
Paul Alexander
???
Paul Alexander: Got it, thank you, and I agree. I’m afraid I didn’t completely understand what you intended by “lovely.”
Paul Alexander; Again,l many thanks.
@@roykiefer7713 6.5 Swede and the 6.5 Grendel aren't in the same category other than bullet diameter. The Swede is more on par with a 6.5 Creedmoor ballistics wise because it's a longer case with heavier bullets so it reaches out a good bit farther and does so easier than the Grendel too. In the US the Swede is a great round IF you reload, otherwise I'd recommend going with the Creed because there's a LOT more ammo availability... If you're in Europe or elsewhere other than the US then there's a lot more ammo selection for the Swede. The brass also lasts longer with the Creed and Grendel because of the shoulder angle on the brass too.
MåcGyver: Thanks. Sadly, I no loner reload, due to house downsizing when the kids departed 20+ years ago. I have always believed the Swede might be the ideal “full size rifle” round, and your post bolsters that feeling.
How's barrel life on these cartridges? I like my 300 Blackout, but the 6.8 was a close competitor. I'm sure my Blackout will last practically forever, but I'm kinda curious about the other alternative AR cartridges. 6mm ARC, 6.8 SPC, and the 6.5 Grendal all seem like good options.
From everything I've read and searched, most calibers in the AR-15 have excellent barrel life. I maybe wrong on this, 5.56 has a chamber pressure of about 55-56k psi. 6.5 Grendel was designed with a 50-52k psi chamber pressure. From what I've personally seen in comments, people get Grendel and Creedmore confused.
IMO, Grendel didn't really take off until Creedmore was launched. From what I've read, Grendel predates Creedmore by about 10 years. Be that as it may, Grendel will give as long a service life as 5.56. Which is better? You will have to decide. What do you need your rifle to do? Research costs time and thought.
Was the 6.8 an SPC 1 or 2 or an AR Performance there is a difference . I am 72 and walking with a 24" barrel when I could be walking with a 16" and get the same performance out to 400 yards I will walk with the 16". The 120 SST s will kill anything on the ranch and it is very accurate out of my 6.8. Long range is with my Creedmors.
P.S. i was also wondering if the 6.8 Western can be chambered in an AR15? lol
I have two AR platform uppers in 7.62X39, I have never been able to get them to work reliably, I think it is mostly a magazine issue. What is the cheapest conversion? Could I change the barrel to a 6.5 Grendel and still use the same bolt?
No you would need a new bolt and barrel. Almost all Grendel bolt's are known as type 2. There used to be a type 1 that I believe it was a 7.62x39 but I dont think you could ever find a type 1 barrel anywhere.
@@theriddleballcoach Are you aware of another caliber I could switch to keeping the bolt and changing the barrel only?
@@daleb1225
The only caliber that I am aware of that uses the same bolt as 5.56mm/223 is 300 blackout. 6.5 Grendel and 6mm Arc use the 6.5 Grendel type 2 bolt. And 6.8 Spc and 224 Valkyrie use the 6.8 Spc bolt. I can go into way more detail about cost of parts for each caliber and efficiency of each caliber also.
J L Thank you, I guess I will leave them as they are. I should probably try selling them but I know I won’t do that either. I have several others and I will use them and these will stay home. Ammo for AK’s needs to go in AK magazines.
@@daleb1225
Your welcome. So much to do so little time.
Love my 6.8
Bolt strength. Much more likely to have lug failures with the Grendel and other cartridges that use the 220 Russian parent case. There is substantially more metal supporting the lugs on the 6.8 bolt which uses the 30 Remington as its parent case. My favorite AR gunsmith will not build a Grendel or 6mm ARC because of lug strength concerns. (White Oak Armament.) Have you ever reviewed the 6mm WOA round?
I studied a lot of AR calibers before settling on the 6.8 as the best option. Very few people have the opportunity to shoot beyond 100-200 yards. In a 16' barrel the 6.8 is hands down the better option for deer and hogs.
Why is 6.8 better for deer and hogs? Does the 6.5 Grendel not have have more energy and velocity?
@@masonsine9011 The 6.5 data is a 24" barrel. The 6.8 data is your normal 16 incher. unless you are shooting 300+ yard shots with a long barrel the 6.8 is the winner.
In 2015, I shot a small spike buck using a frontal shot at 30 yards, directly into the chest, with a Hornady V-Max in 6.8 SPC. The deer seemed only slightly distressed as it trotted towards me and I took a sidelong shot just behind the shoulder at 5 yards as it passed me. Only then did it drop to the ground and died when I walked up to it. I did find the first bullet in its chest and it was perfectly mushroomed out to 5/8" diameter. The second bullet passed through the rib cage and out the other side. I decided to go back to my .308 WIN after this. Unfortunately, I built 2 AR-15s for this cartridge before I shot this deer.
I have used both of these to kill hogs and deer from 50 to 250 and I say Grendel all day every day. Also have both 12” barrel and 18” barrel and they both do great
Lol as if the hogs could tell an ounce of difference between the two
Can 6.5 grendel REALLY fit into a standard AR mag???
I thought you had to get special mags for the 6.5
224 val and 6.8 share the same mag. Ive put 6.8 in regular 556 mags and mine cycled just fine out of a pmag. Im guessing the 6.5 has to be completely different and the mag capacity wouldn't be great. I only load my 6.8 in 5 and 10 rd capacity mags to keep from mixing them up and I built it primarily for deer hunting... if I need more than 5 rds for a deer I probably shouldn't own a firearm 😂
I can confirm 6.5 Grendel doesn't work in normal mags. They require steel magazines with a curve..E lander and duramag are pretty good.
The capacity is also cut to 24-26.
I'm curious about a comparison between the 6.5 grendel and 6mm ARC.
Same case basically, 1/2mm difference in bullet diameter.
@@TommyboyGTP while you are right, I was thinking about ballistics and such.
@@RenaissanceThinking It's a little faster with a little less drop basically.
Much faster, less drop. Stays supersonic much further out.
I'm going for the 6.0 Grendel, er, the 6mmARC
What is the life expectancy of the 6.8 COMPARED to the Grendel?
Can anyone tell me where all the factory 6.5G ammo has gone?
I'm a 6.8 spc fan but of course I like most calibers but 120gr 6.8 isnt actually that common at where I live, 90gr 110gr are what I see on shelves (well nothing at this point in time), even when ordering online I see more of the 110gr than 120gr.
Are they the same BCG or different BCG
Doesnt the muzzle velocity info on 6.5 grendal come from a 24 in barrel where the 6.8 SPC is using a 16 in barrel? Atleast the info printed on the box of ammunition. And wouldnt a longer barrel give the 6.8 more powder burn to help increase its muzzle velocity if comparing barrel lengths that are equal?
My thoughts exactly
If you can find info on. 25 inch 7.62 r vs a 25 inch 5.56 barrel and find out how much it amplified the velocity to based on 16 inch for both being the control then we can solve that question. What I do know is that short shell case designs provide a very low reduction if velocity when the barrel is shortened to nothing. The 308 however loses a huge amount of velocity for every inch of barrel cut.
I have both and have been shooting the 6.8 for 7 years. Have taken deer with both and reload both. No real world difference in my opinion for hunting. And yes the published ballistics are BS because the Grendel is base lined with a 24” barrel and the 6.8 is base lined with a 16”. I have a 21” Stag barrel on my 6.8 and get over 2700 at the muzzle using 120gr bullets and 2850FPS using S&B 110gr factory loads . My 18” Grendel gets about 2525FPS with 123gr factory loads. I also have a 20” Grendel. My 20” Grendel gets about 2600 with 123s. The two are very close. Much closer than the video makes it seem. Under 250 yards with equal barrel lengths I would say the SPC is going slightly faster and has slightly more energy. Past 250 yards the Grendel wins and by 500 yards the margin is wide and just keeps growing. For hunting inside 250 yards they are pretty much equal. Hunting past 250 you need more power than either will provide. If I was shooting targets at 500-600 yards I would choose the Grendel and for 1000 yards I would step up to a Creed.
6.8 SPC fan here. I felt that Grendel was going to be all boots and no cattle like the .458 Socom. I was familiar with the 6.8 and its performance. Let's just say egg in face , foot in mouth and humble pie three times a day.
no need for the egg!! just get you a 6.5 and have the best of both worlds!! 6.8 AND 6.5
@@donniejoy4469
I agree 100%
I have the 6.8 spc and LOVE it!!!
My buddy has the Grendel and it’s great rifle as well. So long story short, I want one of those as to add to the collection. Oh, and throw in the Valkyrie since they use the same magazines as the 6.8 spc. Anyway, Who says you can only have, and like one caliber?
What's wrong with .458?
@@alexandrealain
In all honesty, I don’t know if anything. I’ve never shot it, nor know anything about it. You’ve got my attention, I’m open to check out anything. I’m not biased, or a one round only, loyal to that round type of person. I like multiple rounds, the more the better!!!
I choose the 6.8 because of I want to use a 16 barrel- and it look better on paper for short barrels
For reloading, the 6.5 has tons of bullet choices. The 6.8 has relatively few.
That is just wrong, most of the 6.5 bullets were made for the 6.5x55 and will not expand at the velocity the Grendel can shoot them. There are very few bullets made that will expand at the slower Grendel velocity.
I was using the 6.8 spc in another country and was able to take out snidely whiplash behind a truck door at 300 meters plus it’s a piston not gas impingement
6.8 SPCII, 10.5-16” barrels. The spot n stalk, working man’s weapon.
This guy should should do some research on barrel lengths. hornady uses a 16 inch test barrel for 6.8 spc and a 24 inch test barrel for the 6.5 that's why it's listed a 100 fps faster. From a 16 inch barrel its actually a 100 fps slower than 6.8 .
d fleury Dude, is this true? Anyone know I’d someone who has chronographed these!
@@briandean7861 look on hornady's website they list the length of the test barrel used for all their ammo.
I heard the military is moving toward the 6.8, does anyone know if that is true? My preference would be the 6.5 but if the military is going 6.8 then I would go there just because that will ensure the long term viability of the round.
The 6.8 the military is reviewing is not the SPC, it is an entirely new round as far as I know.
This video was made a while back but a big benefit of the 6.8 is that you can buy it lol. 6.5 Grendel seems to be out of stock everywhere with exception of $2+/round type sites
That's weird you mention that, must be a location thing depending on the State and City. Because I can find 6.5 Grendel for days where I live, but I have never so much as seen 6.8 SPC at any of the Firearms retailers near me, even the bigger ones!
Does either one have a wider range of bullet weights available? I like rounds that can perform in multiple rolls (varmint to medium game, etc.). That's one reason I like quarter bores.
BTW Caleb, I found a receiver from a Brazilian M1922. It's an FN made Mauser in intermediate size. That's what I plan on using for my 257 Bob build. What do you think of that choice? Will it give me the 3 inch COL?
Grendel has between a 95 grain to 130 grain bullet
6.8 can load from 75-130 grn depending on twist rate. I own both and have used on hogs and deer. Since I havce both a 6.5 cree and a 270, I love having some reloading redundancy in a SHTF scenario. Plus the 6.8 bolt is the same as the 224 Valkyrie, so I have some interchangeability there for spare parts...
Yes, that would be a great action for that build.
@@sweetteaoutdoors That 75 is interesting. Should be great on ground hogs & prairie dogs and at the velocity it must have it probably shoots like a laser.
Hazcat Haven’t tried them 75, but silver state list them as options as does my barrel company ar15performance.com
I'm surprised this was posted so recently.. considering there is a new 6.8 in the works and the 300hamr having pretty formidable terminal ballistics there are better cartridges for the AR15 carbine platform
Ham'r ain't going to catch on fast, parts are scarce and boutique right now, and it doesn't have nearly 20 years of history behind it. Or cheap ammo. And really, it offers very little if any advantages over a 6.5G or 6.8 SPC, and has a big downside in that it is far worse in shorter barrels than either of the other two.
The upcoming 6.8 for the Army hasn't even been settled on...is it going to be a telescoping cartridge, or a steel/brass hybrid cartridge, or even caseless, nobody has decided yet. You can technically buy Sig's version now, for the Cross rifle, but that may not be what is selected.
The HAM'r is essentially a 7.62x40 spec II. It's about 75 fps faster bullet for bullet, but the longer case restricts the heavier bullets that have no problem loading in the x40 at magazine length.
The 6.8 also has better BC than .30, comparing same bullet weights. The HAM'r has more energy at the muzzle, but the 6.8 will be moving faster past 100 yards. Past 150 it will have more energy too.
has anyone tried to put 6.5 mm bullet into 6.8 spc's case?
Inside of 300 yards, there is not much difference at all. Past 300 yards the higher BC of the Grendel takes over. The 6.8 SPC was designed for a 16" barrel. I like the 6.8SPC for average deer hunting range use. I'm not needing to reach past 300 yards or care to and I like a 16" barrel in an AR platform for hunting use. It is easy to carry and use in that length.
I looked at both a few years ago with the goal of using one in a 16-18in upper to hunt deer out to 200-250. I picked the grendel because it edged out the 6.8 in most performance categories, but with the typical shots being well inside of 100, either one would have been fine. As others have said though, after 200 (if I ever needed to do it), the grendel starts to set itself aside and that’s not knocking the 6.8, it just wasn’t designed with that in mind.
Stupid ( possibly) question...if I bought a 6.8, would .270 ammunition fit in if I could not find 6.8,? I'd read it was similar size. Thanks
not even close
@@jaymervin6888 Thanks
So can use on AR15 platform... need new barrel and bcg?
And can use on 5.56 Magazine.
New barrel and bolt is required mags do work but are less reliable. If you change the follower in the magazine they work fine
Stats that show 6.5 Grendel as being faster for the same bullet weight, are not comparing the same length barrels. The opposite is true. Out to 300 yards the 6.8 is faster when both have a 16" barrel. The 6.8 has a slightly greater case capacity and a larger diameter surface area for the pressure to push on. With equal pressure, the SPC will have a higher MV. I own both. Have a 6.8 SPC in a 16" barrel and a 6.5 Grendel in a 24" barrel. When it comes to hunting Whitetails, I'll grab the SPC every time. Neither of these are powerful cartridges, so I would never fire over 300 yards with either of these. Probably much less. At that range neither cartridge has a significant advantage. I built the SPC to be a very lightweight hunter whereas the Grendel upper I purchased is very heavy to haul around the woods. Might as well go for an AR10. For long range target shooting or maybe varmint hunting, I would grab the Grendel.
What about 6mm ARC?
7.62x39 in CMMG MK47 Mutant fills the gap between the 5.56x45mm and the 7.62x51mm and does a damn on hogs. All deadly when used for what they are intended for at appropriate ranges. When shooting through stuff the bigger and heavier the better.
7.62x39 fan myself! 20" SKS, 10" Draco and waiting on a brace for my 10“ AR build to be completed. I have an extra AR lower and because of my fondness and ammo stash, I just can't decide on another cartridge, I may just build a rifle in 7.62x39!
With the shortage in reloading components I've learned that it's easy to pull bullets from steel cased ammo to change charges and bullet weights and make subs, which ends the need for 300blk! And I have 5K Berdan primers and a hydraulic de-primer, so reloading steel is an option as well.
I chose the 6.8 since I live in a heavily wooded area, I almost never see a target farther than 300 yards
ROBERT NOLAN same reason for me. Got a small bear with mine last year
WE live in America so I choose........BOTH ! they are both in a AR platform love semi -auto over bolt rifle.
Grendel's great for long range work, but for a defensive rifle I've just seen too many feeding issues with it. 6.8 SPC is a superior cartridge for a fighting rifle.
I think the feeding issues are way over stated. I have a 6.5 Grendel and a 7.62x39 ar 15. I have never had a feeding issue and the 7.62 x 39 is “notorious for that”. Magazine selection is key when these first came out in an ar platform there wernt even good magazines.
Which magazines would you recommend? Is this from experience or what you’ve read or seen elsewhere?
SecondGunman E-lander 6.5 mags and there are a lot of 6.8spc magazines work also.
SecondGunman Grendel hunter website has good mags. There only 10 rounders but they work
I hate e lander. Keeps sending bullets nose face up.
I think the 6.5 Grendel is the best all around cartridge alternative for the AR platform. I haven’t shot the 6.8, but it seems to me more of the shorter range hunting caliber where 6.5 can do that a little less effectively and still be a long distance fun gun. From what I understand; the 6.5 is just more accurate too. Thanks for the videos!
Three HUGE FACTORS...application, weight of the firearm, and intended target.
What application are these rounds used for? Application is important because it impacts what you will carry...in terms of barrel length. If you are sitting at a bench for long range shooting, then you don't mind a 20-24" barrel, as you won't be carrying a gun that weighs as much as the 308 AR-10 vary far...and this is where the 6.5 is designed at typically tested with. If however you are using the gun for hunting or self defense, you will want a lighter weight gun...and to get that weight reduction, you will remove 4-8" of barrel length, or possibly more...and end up with a 12-16" barrel...and when one does that, the 6.8 shines over the 6.5 grendel in terms of delivering energy ON TARGET out to 300 yards...as physics prove a larger bore diameters are more efficient transfer into a projectile in short barrels at any given bullet weight while IN THE BARREL...while thinner barrels capture less energy initial energy at any specific bullet weight (which is why they have longer barrels to make up for that loss), the smaller diameter bullets do tend to main their energy longer after LEAVING the barrel because of better ballistic coefficients. When using the SAME 12-16" barrel length and SAME weight bullet, the 6.8 has a higher muzzle velocity, although there comes a point where they meet...and for these two calibers the the cross over is around 300-400 yards.
For these reasons, if one is using the gun for hunting or self defense, we have to consider gun weight distance to intended target. By "on target," we need to consider not just the speed of the bullet, but the actual energy transfer on target. And lets not overlook the fact that both rounds deliver insufficient energy to be an ethical choice for deer sized target beyond 400 yards.
In a light weight gun used at ethical hunting ranges for these calibers, the 6.8 delivers more energy on target. If you want to shoot game over 300 yards, get a more powerful caliber round...and with the right platform then not only will you have more power, but you may still have a gun that weighs less than a 20-24" 6.5 Grendel.
The 6.8 SPC also has better feeding reliability AND a stronger bolt.
For me and my application of hunting and self defense within 300 yards in a light weight gun, the 6.8 SPC is the clear winner.
American Sentinel K9, LLC you have repeated this several times now mate I think we got it great info by the way cheers Yogi 🤙🤙
@@APBT-Bandog Factory 120gr Federal does 2384fps 15ft from the muzzle from my 12” Grendel. 90gr Federal TNT does 2683fps 15ft from the muzzle. I then take that same AR15 pistol and shoot out to 800yds with 9/10 hits on 2’x3’ steel with 120gr Federal and 123gr Hornady. I don’t even shoot the 16” anymore. The point where they meet is a lot closer than 300-400yds, same barrel length, same bullet weight.
Just ran a high-volume course where I thought everyone would bring 5.56 only, but a bunch of guys brought 12”-18” Grendels as well. Shot suppressed 12.5” Grendel in CQM drills with continual rapid fire. No malfs over 2 days and 1 night. None of the 16” or 18” guns malfunctioned either. That was all Wolf as well, burned through multiple cases of it.
I’ve looked at the ballistics of 6.8 for over a decade now, and it does not deliver more energy on-target within 300yds. The math just isn’t there. They’re really close within 100-200yds, depending on what bullet you shoot. Some loads and rifles might have a little more velocity over the other, with overlap between the two cartridges that depends more on the barrel and ammo. Any advantages in speed with the 6.8 are overcome with BC within the first 100-150yds usually, and they’re so close already that it becomes academic at that point, nothing earth-shattering.
@@LRRPFco52
Out of the same length barrel, the Grendel doesn’t pass the SPC till the 250-300 yard mark. The other thing to consider is barrel twist.
This is common knowledge, and it’s all over UA-cam with those shooting at the range. The Grendel shines with a longer barrel at longer range. The SPC has better velocity and energy given the same barrel length inside 300 yards.
Even then, it’s so close that it doesn’t really matter. They are both excellent cartridges and kill the same. Again, there are plenty of hog hunting videos where they use both rifles and both do an excellent job of killing hogs and deer.
Some people are hell bent on glorifying their rifle of choice, and try to down play anything else.
@@jimedick9496 Run the ballistics of a 120-123gr from a 16" barrel for both.
Both do about the same thing at 300yds. Not a lot of difference. The Grendel really is a poor choice in a self loading rifle because its not a reliable case feed design while the 6.8 is excellent and was designed from the start with fighting reliability in mind first and formost, that is the reason it has some case taper to it. I always hear people yap about how superior the Grendel is, but its not always about the utmost in velocity or ballistic performance. Its more than just speed and energy and B.C. Case design for the weapon is a major consideration and its why I prefer the tapered and feed and extraction reliable case of the 6.8 in an AR rifle. Its simply a better design and even in 16" and shorter barrels its better than the Grendel.
The Grendel thrives in the realm of 20" barrels and in this format is better than a 6.8 in performance. Now in a bolt rifle for certain the 6.5 Grendel is the choice all day, any day. Its perfect for bolt actions. So yeah, each has its own realm or reason for existing. Its more than just ballistics data and drop charts if you really look into it and no matter how you slice it neither the 6.5 Grendel nor 6.8spc are high performance long range or high energy cartridges. They're mid range 300yd performances and they do well in that role.
Geez, shocker! A 6.8 guy bashing the Grendel. But I gotta ask, do you own a Grendel? Most people who have at least one know they do just fine in a semiauto, ie a self loading rifle, like the AR & AK.
_"its not a reliable case feed design"_
Funny you say that considering Bill Alexander has built full auto 6.5 Grendels that ran like a typewriter.** If it were as problematic as you imply, then why would the Serbians have adopted it for their M17 rifles? That's not something that happens if it has an unreliable case feed design, yeah? Feeding problems are more related to magazine issues. Many of those magazines marketed for the Grendel are just 6.8 SPC magazines masquerading as Grendel mags. In mags made for the Grendel, it's not an issue. As for case taper? The 6.5 Grendel has a nearly identical case taper to that of the 308. So are you also implying the 308 has problematic feed and extraction issues as well?
_"~and shorter barrels its better than the Grendel."_
Many would disagree that the Grendel doesn't do well in short barrels. My 10.5", 12", 13" and 14.5" would concur. My 12" can boringly connect out to 600 yds. Last I checked initially the 120gn 6.8 SST from a 12.5 is what 50 to a 100fps faster than a 123gn Grendel SST from a 12"? I don't think that's enough to quibble over. But for the sake of argument, by 200 yds the Grendel begins to overtake 6.8. But as you said, _"Both do about the same thing at 300yds. "_ I agree any difference really isn't worth mentioning. I think the 6.8 SPC is a fine cartridge. It just doesn't interest me as much as the Grendel does.
** *_About 12 years ago I had the opportunity to handle and fire a 10.5 inch gun Bill Alexander brought to an industry event. It ran flawlessly on full automatic and impressed me when I shot a group on paper with it at 500 yards._*
www.firearmsnews.com/editorial/65mm-grendel-ar15-pistol-build/376314
I disagree with your statement about the grendal being a poor feeding design. I run a 12 inch grendal pistol and a 20 inch grendal and both have been 100% reliable. The 6.5 being less reliable is absolute nonsense.
You know how many pounds of 6.5 Grendel brass I have through multiple different rifles, carbines, and pistols of the years without all these feeding issues? I’m not talking about little range sessions either, but hundreds of rounds fired per day over multiple days since 2009. Just did a high volume, 2-day/1-night CQM course where multiple guys brought 12”, 16”, and 18” Grendels, 12” and 16” suppressed. They burned through 2 cases of Grendel at least. No malfs. Every DM course and LR course I’ve run or coached, guys and gals end up with piles of brass around them. Don’t recall malfs.
I have 22”, 18”, 18”, 17.6”, 16”, 12”, and 10.5” now. I really like the 18” and 12”. Still haven’t done the 10.5” yet. Grendel thrives in whatever barrel length you put it in. I haven’t shot the 22” in years. It’s a big bull barrel Lilja fluted, beautiful rifle in Seekins billet upper. It’s all funny because I only played around with Grendel initially as something maybe fun for shooting alongside .260 Rem, just to see what it would do. I wanted a 20”, but they sold out, then 18” sold out, so I was left with 16” or 24”, and I went 16”. I’m glad that happened because it allowed me to see what a Grendel would do from a barrel that “it wasn’t optimized for”.
@@LRRPFco52 Well said. BTW thanks for all the great posts, information and wisdom over the years on the forums. It's great seeing you over here.
Seems to me that the deciding factor is future round availability. 6.8 will be mass produced if the military goes with it in their Next Gen weapons
The military isn't going with the 6.8 SPC. They're going with a larger caliber. Armor penetration and machine guns dictate more oomph than an intermediate rifle caliber, so it's likely going to be 6.8x51 (.277 SIG Fury) as accepted by SAAMI. 80k psi!!!
ok so we all have had a bit of experience with the 6.5Grendel for those that are into other calibers then 223/556. I know shes a flat shooter and that its great out to about 600 to 700yrds but what is the 6.8SPC good for then?If its an intermediate range cartridge then why not just go with the Grendel? What are the plusses with 6.8SPC? Im into long range shooting at both targets and varmints! Dont get me wrong i still prefer a humane kill but how far out can the SPC reach reliably? And what size game is it effective on? Because this is the 1st time i have ever heard anything really even a bit negative about the SPC..... Im in fact in the middle of building one! I just finished a CMMG/Aero Precision 45ACP radial delayed blowback and a Fostech/Danial Defense 458Socom. The last two build i have going now are a 350Legend carbine and an 6.8SPC rifle length rifle, Decided on a 20" minimum barrel.The 350Legend is a Odin works and the SPC is one of yours! ;>) The only parts that i didnt get so far from Brownells were the stripped stock and fore end! The rest is all you! so far i have a 5.56BCG to put the SPC bolt assembly in and the upper/lower set! My issues is for the SPC i want the Aero Precision Atlas S-One hand guard??? You guys dont make one like it? Well there is one kind of like it but the top of the guard isnt rounded without sharp corners like AP's is? If its not a copywrite infringement to make one just like it i would ! It is "the" "most" Comfortable handguard i have ever had on an AR!!! So im torn considering i want to build an "all" Brownies gun? Any suggestions from your lineup i could substitute for the Atlas S-One?
6.8 SPC outperforms 5.56mm and still fits in AR pattern rifles. You get improvements in barrier penetration, you get good terminal ballistics. You get a similar range out of the two although the 6.8 SPC drops a little sooner, but not until you're out past 450-500m. The two pack similar energy out past 400m, but before that, the 6.8 SPC has a pretty serious advantage. The 6.8 is a bit more susceptible to wind drift, but that's the nature of larger bullets.
If you were the military and were looking for something that still gave you similar performance at distance but offered a substantial improvement in barrier penetration and terminal ballistics up close, the 6.8 SPC is a nice little upgrade to 5.56. If you need to make shots over 500m, it's probably time to call someone with a different rifle.
Is it better enough to justify changing from 5.56 to 6.8 SPC? Probably not, which is why it likely didn't get adopted and remains a special operations toy.
Now the military is looking at a crazy high pressure 6.8x51 round that ticks all the boxes.
@@DriveCarToBar Thnaks for the info. Not the numbers you are throwing out here are out of a 16" barrel right? I recently purchased a 6.8SPC 20" barrel so im hoping it reaches out a bit more then the 5.56...? I hope the longer barrel gives be good terminal ballistics when im hog and deer hunting out in the flat areas of TN and KY? Im on the hunt for some acreage in WV or maybe eastern KY or TN? Or even in western NC? I want that cabin in the woods with a babbling brook? And the free meat the land will provide! As our Economy slips into hellish conditions and the prices of all meats are going up i see the need to hunt. I swore after i got out of the military i wouldnt kill anything ever again but since things have gotten so costly i am considering hogs and deer? More so the hogs though! hehe thanks again
Serbian army adopt 6.5 grendel and they made AK system rifle in that caliber with replaceable caliber with only changing barrel and magazines of the rifle with 7,62. Zastava M17, 6.5/7.62 interchangeable caliber.
My 6.8 argument is that I found a home build at a gunshop on sale for like $400 a couple of years ago.
Thats the better one then right!?!? That logic often makes the most sense honestly!
Some times the home builds use the best barrels.
Did the 6mm ARC DIE? ? ?
I hunt hogs with both of these, and inside 200 yards, no difference
How well does the bullets performance compare to something like a .308, I've been thinking about going from a AR10 to a 15, recently.
Will Rowell The 308 is a great hog caliber, but the smaller calibers are more than adequate for the job. There is less recoil and the gun is lighter. I use good bullets, Barnes or Hornady, and with good placement, the hogs drop in their tracks
@@psdozer Awesome, just what I wanted to hear
Well stated common sense. I use 7.62x39 for shooting hogs and it drops em just fine, and the hogs don't seem to be able to tell what caliber it is or if it's a fancy new caliber.
Ericka C exactly! 7.62x39 puts the smack down on hogs and costs nothing to shoot when your hunting sounders of hogs.
6.8 SPC was supposed to be a 1:1 replacement more or less for the 5.56 m855. You could use approximately the same zeroes and get better performance from the 6.8 with just a barrel and bolt swap. The only reason it failed is because Remington rushed the round to market and it wasn't consistent in the original chamber. With the SPCII chamber it solved the issues and is a consistent general purpose round.
I don't have much experience with the 6.5 Grendel so I can't speak to it.
I cannot load the Grendel faster. According to Hodgdon with 120 grain bullets for both, the fastest load for the Grendel is 2498 fps and the 6.8 is 2543 with a shorter barrel. The BC ABSOLUTELY favors the Grendel but no real difference at hunting distances. For example both sighted in at 100 the Grendel is -17.40 inches low at 300 and the 6.8 is -17.58.
They are both great 250 and in hunting rounds. The Grendel is the better long range target load IMO.
The Grendel is NOT "faster" at the muzzle when comparing the same barrel length, the 6.8 has a higher muzzle velocity when the barrel length is the same.
You forgot to mention the Grendel velocity came from an 8" longer barrel
Any magazine recommendations for the Grendel?
Elander mags
I've been using c-products 10 round mag( I have 2 of them) and zero issues
P mags loaded to 15-17 works in a pinch no problem other than that c products all day
10 round Duramags made by C-Products are perfect. Not sure if their larger mags work as well, but the 10 round magazine are fantastic!
Can you get both of these calibers in bolt action rifles cheers Yogi 🤙🤙
Yes ER Shaw makes a custom rifle with just about any caliber you can think of and any you never knew existed
6.8 is a .270 adapted to shoot in a short barrel (16in) AR15 Army rifle. More and more armies in the world find the 7.62 to large and the 5.56 to small. In 2017 the US Army has decided to look once again at the mighty .270 calibre (actually is a .277 or 6.8mm). In future you'll hear more and more about the "Army 270". For hunting the .270 is an iconic caliber and now the army likes it too 😁 People should start getting used to 2 x .270's. One is the army version and the other the hunting version. And yes, you can reload the hunting cartridge with 90gr army bullets... This will increase the .270's popularity even more!
His hair looked glued on
It is...
@@brownells loving it!