When Billy/Jimmy referenced several times of getting back to an analog/previous sound, I immediately thought....could they possibly mean a sound more raw & organic like P. Iscariot? Band jamming in the same room with faster than usual takes? There's no going back for SP and personally, I'm at peace with this. They've created some absolutely masterpiece sounds in the past. If anyone wants to like this new material, I'll never begrudge them. I will always consider myself a big fan regardless.
True. The album sounds like musicians sitting in front of a laptop, laying down some tracks to a click and midi track. Not that it's inherently bad though, but sometimes it's just pretty obvious. I think they simply don't have the time anymore to get in the studio and maniacally work their butt off in a band-style like they did in Siamese, Mellon, Adore, Machina etc. They're probably working from home, laying down some tracks, "ohh this needs a double", programming some midi etc.
The magic that comes from youth and drugs is gone, but Pentagrams for example could be on Machina, and its one magnificent song, lets not be too dramatic. This album on headphones is better than almost everything they have done after the magic era.
Are you a fan of Hole? Would be cool to see you do a video talking about them/Courtney and maybe ranking their albums or something. Billy wrote a lot of songs for/with Courtney on Celebrity Skin and the underrated Nobody’s Daughter. Kinda wish they’d do some more songwriting together tbh… 🤔
Fairplay to you checking out new pumpkins albums , i just cant with them anymore . Such a shame as they were one of my favourite bands growing up in the 90s and siamese dream and melcon collie are still up there with my favourite albums . I have a similar issue with the pixies too.
I really enjoyed it. It felt familiar and comfortable. I wanted to love ATUM but I just couldn’t get anywhere with it. I respect Billy for always taking chances, but that one, for the first time, was a miss for me. This one cleansed the palate.
I think the influence of shoegaze was the secret ingredient that really brought SP’s original run together, even on the later albums like Adore and Machina. The wall of sound, the great mixing by butch Vig and flood, and Billy’s original style of singing all link back to that in my opinion (Zeitgeist and The Future Embrace are the last two releases that still had traces of that OG pumpkins atmosphere imo). There was a really great fan video that came sometime in the last two years or so that went into the new and old school album mixing in detail. I think it’s been taken down.
Absolutely love this album so far and only gets better with every play through. Not sure what the hell you all are talking about. Oh and the production is the best in years. Sounds unbelievably good on my stereo.
im talking about his inability to write a vocal melody that catches my ear like he did from 90-2000, that's what i'm talking about. The drums sound dry and compressed, I agree the music is good though.
@@DancingwithGhostsI think it's much easier to write a vocal melody when you have range. still, there are some vocal melodies on this album, but it seems more prog minded. in the past they were effortless because his singing style and voice allowed for it.
This is the album I've been waiting for since we heard "Solara". Not sure why it took 4 years to get there, but I love it. It sounds like the band sounds live today when they play something awesome like "Once in a Lifetime". I'm thrilled, honestly.
100% on point review. Musically its badass for the most part, despite having too many cliche riffs and billy's recent love of chugga chugga palm mutes. Maybe im just happy theyre not using the cheesy synth presets everywhere. But bury the vocals back in the mix amongst the fuzzed out guitars. Cant get into any of the vocal melodies. Bring back butch vig or flood.
I listened. It has that ‘made on a computer’ feel, because basically it was. The days of young man reckless experimentation that marked the masterpiece that was/is melon collie is long gone, creating unique textures with old school technical pushes like half speed guitars and the like, all to enhance a stellar set on songs. Now it’s sheer pretentiousness, veering into chilli pepper level ludicrousness in terms of titles, aquatic mouth dance & all that shit. The very sound of irrelevance. The depressing thing is when the bands that the pumpkins replaced became old and washed up, there was a vital new rock scene ready to take its place. Now there’s just an epic void of increasingly banal mainstream pop of ever widening vapidity. I’ll be 59 in November and feel really sorry for the likes of my nephews generation, who like you loves his classic rock but with a few exceptions they’re all gone, or old and infirm to the point of total irrelevance like the recent ac/dc gigs, which just look sad to me having seen them in their prime, a little like the debacle that was the last genesis shows, which you’ve previously covered with a brutal but completely justified take down. I saw my first concert in 1980, and can honestly say sadly in 2024 there’s barely anyone I would pay money for another more, Peter Gabriel I saw last year and he still has it, but he’s a rare exception.
Peter Gabriel is an artist of the first order that is keeping the dream alive. Alas, you are 100% correct in your assessment. You at 59 got to live through the most dynamic era of rock (for my money)
My 1st year of seeing rock concerts I saw Siouxsie and the banshees, talking heads, Motörhead, the jam, ac/dc, cheap trick, the clash, rush, thin lizzy, genesis, dire straits, yes, van Halen, the cure and rainbow - which sounds utterly ridiculous but back then gigs were a) cheap, and b) those were just all bands regularly touring, most of those above would play every other year, pretty much clockwork. Me and my friends would go to Hammersmith odeon or the rainbow theatre and just see who was playing the following month, and grab some tickets, Wembley arena as well but those shows were more expensive!
Personally, I genuinely really like the record - it’s very prog influenced soooo I felt the vocal melodies kind of worked to compliment the music. There’s no main vocal hook I don’t think is a bad thing - I remember him saying that Gish is basically an ‘instrumental record’ and I feel there’s some Gish influence at times here. Yes Gish is considerably catchier but I can hear sonically the influence. It’s the best work Billy has done since Oceania. Is that faint praise? Not particularly - I genuinely think this is a huge jump forward by changing their sound up enough to make it unique but also knowing it’s them. Soooo yeah, I’m a fan of it! I would like to hear a more commercial rock album by them again but this record is a different beast entirely, so the comparisons to Billy’s 90’s stuff I feel can be negated somewhat here. Believe me, Siamese Dream and Adore are two of my favourite records, ever. But I also appreciate what they’ve made here - it’s perhaps a little too quantised at times as there’s no true time sig changes, it’s on a click. Hopefully the next album will be…super heavy?! With screams?! Probably not haha
i personaly like the record alot but i gotta say that often, the lyrics sound like he typed his song premise into chatgpt and had it generate lyrics, often he sounds like he's just rambling cryptic stuff to make it sound like theres a deep meaning when itts just random stuff
“On the down Need a hit of iridium On the town and tedium Ghastly bland chameleons Lost, I'm in On the wheel Bearing brunt and brutalist No hint of sun or reverence Stirring warmth and covenant Lost, I'm in” Like what in the fuck is he on about 😂
I've only listened to Aghori Mhori Mei once so far but i like it and would rather listen to this than thier last 3 albums. If i had to put it on a tierlist it would go at B for now. Where would you put it at?
This video is a let down, sorry but it feels like I'm just watching a bored dude who’s talking trash as if it were called “watch me hate on a new album.” aging exists and that’s just how it is. But you have your own opinion and so do I
Billy corgan always made strange lyrics like listen to songs like Mayonnaise or cherub rock but those songs had great vocals and a great melody and now his lyrics are even more strange and does have those things that made them good
@@aegisreflector1239 WTF are you talking about? Iha and Chamberlin are here and contributing equally as they did back then. If it bugs you that the majority of the songwriting is Corgan, FROM DAY ONE then you should definitely not like Siamese Dream, which was recorded ENTIRELY by just Billy and Jimmy. ENTIRELY. Ask Butch Vig.
Have you heard any of the Zodeon at Crystal Hall tracks yet? Hasn't been released yet, but they put out a bunch as bonus tracks on the deluxe Atum box set last year, so they're still pretty obscure. Kinda late-60s psychedelic pop sound, very organic and stripped down. Actual melodic hooks and understandable lyrics are involved. And of course, there's no timeline for when it will be properly released, if ever.
Considering how shit the last two SP albums were, this is a big improvement, however, there are no hooks on this album. Agreed that the lyrics have fallen off a cliff and the production is still nowhere where it should be. (FFS Corgan, stop producing!!) At least the shitty synths have been retired and are only used here to compliment the music. IDK, I'm starting to think SP are dead and I'll just stick to everything up to Zeitgeist.
@@DancingwithGhosts make this a shirt and mail it to his shitty PR team and manager who somehow thought it was a good idea to get this Amazon ceo looking numbskull behind a mixing board in 2024.
I’m 44, first heard SP on the singles soundtrack and fell in love. Checked out Siamese Dream the second it was on the shelves. Got to see them a few times and even meet them. Last time I saw them was around 2016/17. He sounded absolutely incredible. Only played few “new” songs. It’s insane how much I love them and do not like any of their recent music. Grateful for them eternally ❤
I've heard the album twice. I love the first two songs. I feel like other songs will be growers. It's leagues better than Cyr & Autum. Compared to Shiny oh so bright it is more of an actual album than just a bunch of songs compiled in any order. Definitely doesn't touch Zeitgeist. I got Gish vibes throughout the album, but nothing from Siamese D or Mellon Collie.
i dont understand the constant comparisons to "gish", that was such an organic sounding, real album. They may have used some guitar tones that are reminiscient of the "gish" era but that's as far as it goes
@@DancingwithGhosts I mean in the way how the songs are structured, there was a gish like complexity to them. I agree the album doesn't sound raw like Gish & Zeitgeist but I felt the vibe was similar. Of course with all music, everyone has their own interpretation.
Billy's vocals sucks now and completely ruins the music. I loved his youthful, careless, voice. Now it's insufferable where he's trying to sound like a good vocalist and it's borderline hilarious. The music is good tho, it's a shame the vocals blow chunks. If his younger voice can be remixed with these songs it would be great
@@WarPigs413 AI and a bit of reverb could have helped alot. Also he should have had a backing vocalist... And did a compilation or pumpkins x singer album. Or atleast has guest vocalists... Hell, even acoustic would have made this sellable. But the fact he Truly tried to make something epic out of his Donald duck in a wind tunnel voice feels cheap and forced.
I like how honest and direct your review is. Machina was my way into SP. I’ve never been more inspired by an album. It had great vocal melodies, lyrics, the (over)production suited the atmosphere, and Billy’s voice was very different (also different in the mix). Basically all the things that the new album doesn’t have. With the exception of parts of the second song, I found nothing interesting.
@@DancingwithGhosts Same here. SIYL is one of the best songs I’ve ever heard. Truly incredible. I’m willing to forgive less than great production as long as the melody is good. Zeitgeist is the last great SP album for me.
Strong and beautiful sound. On headphones at least, as it should be. Good album, from the most recent stuff its maybe just not as good as Oceania, but sounds better. Beautiful thing to have them back to honest rock, sounds beautiful.
I’ve been waiting for this review, more than any other! I have had mixed feelings about this. This is the best album he’s done in a long time, but it almost doesn’t matter at this point. Ten-plus years of crap music has killed my interest in this band. Also, I’m with you on the unpleasantness of his voice. Part of what made the Pumpkins of old so appealing is that Billy made his shitty voice work! He could make his voice almost pretty, in a way, and there was something about his angry scream that I loved! He now sings every song the exact same way, which gets boring fast!
This is the best review that I've found for this album from someone I can tell who really enjoys the legacy of the band. I feel like the album is lackluster and unfocused. There are a few good musical motifs and themes here, but everything feels overcompressed and it's kind of hard to hear anything. I hate feeling disappointed by this album, but I think it's only because I KNOW the band can do better (based on live performances and otherwise) and we keep getting presented albums that we are told to be compelling or interesting but they're just boring and miss the mark. I hope they get a better album later, but I wouldn't count on it.
ok so i just listened to it...... it's fine. haven't heard a full pumpkins record since zeitgeist. there's a lot on here i like, but man do i hate the way he chose to end it. maybe this opinion will change over time, dunno. despite some really nice pretty stuff and a section that i would describe as heavenly, that last track just kind of goes on a bit and then trails off and ends!? wasn't paying attention to the tracklisting or time so i fully expected another song but nope, that was it. to reiterate, i think i really like that last track, but i don't love it closing this "rock album". and from what i've heard about their past couple albums it's just kind of more of the same? will definitely be giving this some more spins, and working my way through the last decade+ of material that i have never heard, i just know that none of it is as good as here is no why lol.
By The Way Josh, have you listened to the 'Zodion At Crystal Hall'? They are 7" singles that came exclusively with 'Atum' Box set. 10 tracks that are not availabe digitally or on CD. Best ones that I could have found were MP3's that someone ripped off the vinyl. Granted they are not the best stuff ever either, more folky rock stuff. Goddamn fuck I hate how Billy does this. 'Machina II / The Friends & Enemies Of Modern Music' was so hard to track down and they are crusty fan rips aswell. There is going to be limited edition vinyl of 'Aghori Mhori Mei' aswell with 2 exclusive tracks.
yeah i hate how he does that as well.. Machine II is like a non-album in my mind because it was so fucking hard to track down back in the day.. and even if you did find it online it was questionable if you had the "official" version or some other thing with b-sides thrown it.. it was a mess
I agree his vocals are the weak point now as in the distant past it worked with the music. That said, I still think this is a great album. I thoughly am enjoying it
@@a.williams1945 billy's voice was the whole reason i got into the smashing pumpkins to begin with.. FINALLY a voice that wasn't "pretty" or "industry acceptable" yet they sold millions of records. Much like Tom Waits... Billy could finesse his vocals into something interesting but he's too lazy and that's what pisses me off\ disappoints me
Sorry to say that, but the album cover has decent goatse-vibes. Sums up the whole album for me personally, but I liked the minor Tool-influences though.
He’s a pretty savvy dude imagine if he went and found an unknown singer male or female and sculpted them into something worthy of his still relevant musical vision….he would def make for a formidable band leader in that capacity….love your insights on this record….
I LLOOVVEE the Pumpkins, but you nailed it. I can't get over the complete absence of relatable, simple lyrics (including dumbass songs and album titles) and ANY lyrical melodies or hooks. The first 3 tracks on Siamese Dream have more interesting "parts" than all the last 3 albums together.
Was waiting for your review! Gonna give it a listen today. Im scared. I’m 31, maybe my all time fav band, but ATUM was terrible besides of 1-2 tracks, CYR was reeeeally mid, so yeah, im afraid. Would be sad to see such an iconic band go out with I don’t know, 5-6 bad albums. Or idk how many, based on the fact that these come out yearly now. Maybe the secret would be… 10 songs in 3-4 years… instead of like shitting out eeeeverything they write. But hey, from the reviews it seems like its the best from the cyr-atum and this trio.
Thanks for being honest. I hate when I keep seeing pumpkins fans making excuses for this thing. It’s better than the last few but still not good. And I’ve been a pumpkins lover since I was like 9 in the 90s. He had some great riffs and hooks and then didn’t really do anything with them. I’m not sure if the songs are reminiscent of Tool but the album cover is a cross between Orgy’s debut and A Perfect Circle one.
True. I very much dislike the standard comment: “Guitars are back. What more could you ask for?” It’s like so what when the melodies aren’t there or seem completely random.
Ive lissened to Pentagrams a lot already.. , the gays are not young and on drugs, the magic is gone, but I can lissen to this, unlike their last few.. (Oceania not included, great album )
@@ifiagreeyoureright1969 The album sounds absolutely beautiful, on headphones its a treat. That is something. Not everything surely, but certainly something.
Zeitgeist is the last pumpkins album that I liked. "tarantula," "stars," and "thats the way my love is," were all great songs. I honestly can't listen to this new stuff. Thanks for the review.
He got way too into esoteric literature or something, I don’t know when he started writing this way.. I think it was his solo albums that inspired it but it’s so outside the realm of relatability at this point
Breaking news: His style is different than in 1993!!! Every single Corgan album has its own musical language. Compare this to Zodeon at Crystal Hall, if you even know about that record (was released last year as a bonus alongside Atum but has a completely different aesthetic).
So has Radiohead and Red Hot Chili Peppers. They make albums that are distinctly them but there is new life going into them. And they keep things interesting. Smashing Pumpkins are ambitious but they seem to go a little too far in terms of what they want to focus on and sometimes it has mixed results. Who knows, these albums could be vindicated by history. Hell I can see younger people getting into new Pumpkins.
It wasn’t what I was expecting I’ve only listen to it once so far all the way through I’ll listen to it again but it’s just missing something and it feels unfinished but I can’t work out why
Thank you for this - brought me back to the deep shallowness of Billy post Gish and Dream...How fame inflates your persona so you believe the image is you....Billy - it's a facade - stoping trying to polish your self conscious trying to be cool effort - there was none of this on Gish and Dream - Butch Vig - Where is Butch? Oh, would follow his esthetic sensibilities today? Stick a pin in that balloon. Thank you for your honest clear mediation to help us appreciate what we are hearing even more. I'll listen to Edin one last time then we're done. There are bands like Elder and Giants and The Dark Bright with far more emotional reward.... Poor Jimmy - just trying to cameo his 1990s self - heroine offer one originality cuz you are out of the way and the numen reaches through you...
I wish Billy would stop trying too hard for something profound and just sing like he sung on Annie-Dog off Adore. That’s a pretty normal singing voice that doesn’t sound bad at all. I’m sure he can still do that
Ten songs!? Thank god this one will be a lot easier to digest. I thought AUTM was mid (5/10) but a few damn good songs! At least Smashing Pumpkins seems to be aging WELL in this current decade (unlike other bands I used to like such as Muse and 30 Seconds to Mars 😂)
They can still perform their old songs very well live, he can do whatever he wants but maybe they should be like system or a down or rage and just stick to the old stuff and be a live band only 🤷🏻♂️
I love your content but im afraid to listen to this album or listen to a review, SP sucks shit since machina. I know you like zeitgeist, and I hated that album when it came out but wouldnt mind going back to those days. I think its this home studio revolution making all these new albums sound like brittle shit.
@@DancingwithGhosts Great video by the way. The issue I always had with Zeitgeist is that it falls off a cliff after song number 5 and never comes back up. 'Neverlost' is decent but 'Stars' is weird in a camp way, 'United States' is forced and boring, '(Come On) Let's Go' is on the wrong record - it's a Zwan song, 'For God and Country' is lame and 'Pomp and Circumstance' in my opinion is embarrassing. If they had replaced that second half with the other tracks scattered in the different coloured version, it could have been one good coherent record.
@@DancingwithGhosts The guitars and drums in Zeitgeist hit hard, they kick ass actually. It's just his voice and...it changed around then. Can't really put my finger on it, but also his vocal melodies are odd to me now. And now their mixes sound 'modern' in a bad way. Coming from a guy who felt like he was the only one that really liked Adore, Machina and the even the Zwan album. Zeitgeist isn't awful, it just disappointed me.
There is a fan remixed version of Zeitgeist with his vocal burried in mix and some guitars out that wasnt even there before. I highly recommend trying it out. With that version it almost feels like a proper SP album.
I really want to love this album. I love hard rocking pumpkins with layered guitars and heavy riffs, but... this album is massively lacking in hooks. I've listened multiple times now and I still can't identify a memorable melody.
I hear a lot of tool and a perfect circle in this new album. I’m not sure if I really like it yet, I only listen to half the album. Been a fan of them since the 90s. I feel like the days of iconic albums from thees types of bands are over. Everything seems mediocre. I guess once you write such an album it’s hard to replicate.
Brilliant review. His voice has ruined most records since 2000. Musically they shred. But yes he sings gibberish now. Does he use AI?Maybe time for a new vocalist 😂 This record is average.
The drums and the vocal sound were my criticism too. The songs are good, but the drummer is supposed to be Jimmy friggin Chamberlin, master of drums. How come the drums sound like programmed midi drums in a Pro Tools project on a laptop 98% of the time. This breaks the 4th wall to me. Other than that I acknowledge them for putting out a solid and coherent rock record and Billy is just a good guy
yeah the drums sounded quite weak. This album was a supposedly a "going back" album and yes... they did have some rock riffs that were cool but nothing else about the album sounded like "vintage" pumpkins to me. They could have at least recorded the album like they did back in the day to add some authenticity to the "going back" claim.
@@DancingwithGhosts True that. I guess they simply don't have the time anymore to actually record in-the-room with all the touring and personal life. Laying down riffs to a click track is more efficient and touring friendly.
Dude totally agree the top lines fucking suck. Billy can’t write good memorable vocal melodies anymore. That vocal impersonation took me the fuck out 🤣🤣
Why don't you just get into a time machine and travel to 1996. Dude, 30 years have passed since that "band" no longer exists and will never return. We all know that they only make one album and don't repeat it again. What did you think you were going to hear the second part of Jellybelly? You may not like the new music, that's fine, but what's the point of always wanting to go back to what you've already done? It is the death of any Artist... This album just is what it is, and I think it's beautiful, unique and fresh. But you can still listen to everything from 2000 onwards.
I think the main problem with this album is Corgan's melodies. Most of them sound repetitive, monotonous and lazy. To the point where I think "this album would be much better if it were instrumental". It's impossible for a composer not to listen to himself and notice that he's repeating himself, and even worse, not to do anything to get around it. Anyway, there are many old bands that manage to remain interesting, Smashing Pumpkins is not one of them. I understand and respect that many people liked this album, but for me I'll pass. There are many good artists making music right now, many good albums have been released this year, it's better to spend my time listening to these more interesting things.
I just don't like the metal aesthetic he keeps repeating but at least he dialed down the god awful synths..Its a sound repeated since Zeitgeist. I miss sunnier tones like Whir,La Dolly Vita,Thats The Way,Here Is No Why and 99 Floors.There has been very little variation. I've noticed a lack of variation in the music on the last several records and I think after 20 years it's safe to say the vocals being extremely high in the mix will always be a thing with this trying to sound modern approach.Billy simply is not a good producer. A new release from Billy will always get a listen from me but that's about all I commit to as a music listener. The word salad is Billy's pretentious way of coming across as a sophisticated word smith and poet but it just comes off as disconnected and unlistenable. I don't buy releases from BC because the quality isn't there with the albums or archive releases. If there's essential music I've never heard on an archive release or a new album that has a direction I really connect to then bring it. I will invest the time and money on Machina reissue, Zwan reissue, Chicago Kid,unreleased material from 2004 -2024 then I will throw money down
What’s slightly more annoying than Corgan’s (lack of) vocal melodies, poor production, and lyrics is everyone who likes the new songs because there are guitars.
wellllllllllllll when some of your most classic material is all guitar-based, I think it's reasonable to expect that from them at least every now and then
Get out of my head! First listen I heard Tool in a few songs. First listen to Pentagrams was "Ghost ripoff!", then it proceeded to not be near as good as a Ghost song. Totally agree that vocals and lyrics hit bottom on this album. Been a fan since I got a tape copy of Gish from my friend's brother a month after it came out. I figured out how to appreciate Cyr and even a lot of ATUM to a degree. I've learned you have learn how to listen to Pumpkins records since Oceania. There are good songs that take time to appreciate. AMM doesn't have anything approaching Snail, Muzzle, Here Is No Why, Geek USA, Spaceboy, Luna, Tarantula or anything that you know is going to be good 6 seconds in and only going to get better. Notice I didn't even mention any past anthems or singles. Just solid songs that were creative, paint a great picture vocally and comprised a great album. Saw them on their UK tour with Weezer back in June. Never thought it would turn out that Weezer was the better of the two shows. 6 of 21 songs were stuff no one really cared about. At least it was some of the good songs off of ATUM that got played, but a wall of noise metal Zoo Station (U2) and long Gossamer...yuck. Replace those two with Geek USA, XYU or Starla and you've got a solid set. At first pass, AMM is, unfortunately, exactly what I expected.
This is why Zeppelin is the best. Every album is amazing. I give Billy props for the 1st four albums, but it doesn't deliver anymore for me. I'm done trying because after seeing them live this year, they didn't play shit from Gish or any of the old albums and they didn't even have an encore. Jane's Addiction on the other hand embraced their early stuff and were so much more fun.
Billy has taken the harmonic quality of Tool (every song and riff in D) but unlike Tool, where the rhythm is interesting, Billy plays the usual 4/4 and there is nothing that peaks your interest. The music of Tool slowly unravels and climaxes somewhere, unlike the Pumpkins where you’ve heard everything the song has to offer within 10 seconds. Soulless release for me.
Maynyard's voice has preserved as Billy's has not .. that's my main issue.. plus Billy refuses to write a melody thats not atonal .. but in all fairness Tool's last album was garbage as well
I feel like I've written some damn good melodies. You've not heard of me because I'm up and coming in a music industry that is basically non-existent. This is literally the worst time in the past 50 years to try to put out rock music. I honestly don't know why I took the time to respond to this dumbass comment.
he's had these problems way before the wrestling stuff.. the music is good so he's able to focus on things but his vocals are not one of those things that he cares to put to put time into for whatever reason
@@DancingwithGhosts I listened to it twice to give it a chance and yeah it needs to be remastered and remixed or something... We see alot of artists cross over into electronica now... Nelly Furtado for example, is bigger than ever doing house music... The pumpkins has a few chances to reinvent themselves... But as you say I think bill Corgan is such an ego asshat now it would be impossible without many lawyers and him not being involved at all aside from his voice... Which is obviously completely gone now
I don't know if it's music business pressures, but huge mainstream bands definitely tend to get worse with age. However, there are a lot of indie bands I follow that've somehow gotten better after 30 years (Examples: Low and Slowdive).
@@DancingwithGhosts those chords though, they are ugly and not pleasing to the ear. No one seems to talk about chord progressions. They sound like Corgan was trying to please Rick Beato. Same goes with that Sojourner song from Atum... I'm not narrow minded when it comes to chords, but they are not Corgan chord progressions. At least they weren't. Also, the chorus to whatever the penultimate song on this album is - can't be arsed to look it up!
When Billy/Jimmy referenced several times of getting back to an analog/previous sound, I immediately thought....could they possibly mean a sound more raw & organic like P. Iscariot? Band jamming in the same room with faster than usual takes? There's no going back for SP and personally, I'm at peace with this. They've created some absolutely masterpiece sounds in the past. If anyone wants to like this new material, I'll never begrudge them. I will always consider myself a big fan regardless.
True. The album sounds like musicians sitting in front of a laptop, laying down some tracks to a click and midi track. Not that it's inherently bad though, but sometimes it's just pretty obvious. I think they simply don't have the time anymore to get in the studio and maniacally work their butt off in a band-style like they did in Siamese, Mellon, Adore, Machina etc. They're probably working from home, laying down some tracks, "ohh this needs a double", programming some midi etc.
The magic that comes from youth and drugs is gone, but Pentagrams for example could be on Machina, and its one magnificent song, lets not be too dramatic. This album on headphones is better than almost everything they have done after the magic era.
@@miguelmelchior986Really
I love the sound of Pieces Iscariot and Machina 2 honestly. Super underrated. Raw and demo stage pumpkins sounds awesome in my opinion.
It’s less smashing pumpkins mixed with TOOL its more smashing pumpkins mixed with a perfect circle (James was in perfect circle to)
Murnau - what my cats say when i'm taking too long to feed them.
Beautiful song.
Are you a fan of Hole? Would be cool to see you do a video talking about them/Courtney and maybe ranking their albums or something. Billy wrote a lot of songs for/with Courtney on Celebrity Skin and the underrated Nobody’s Daughter.
Kinda wish they’d do some more songwriting together tbh… 🤔
Fairplay to you checking out new pumpkins albums , i just cant with them anymore . Such a shame as they were one of my favourite bands growing up in the 90s and siamese dream and melcon collie are still up there with my favourite albums . I have a similar issue with the pixies too.
I really enjoyed it. It felt familiar and comfortable. I wanted to love ATUM but I just couldn’t get anywhere with it. I respect Billy for always taking chances, but that one, for the first time, was a miss for me. This one cleansed the palate.
it doth not cleanseth my palatte
I think the influence of shoegaze was the secret ingredient that really brought SP’s original run together, even on the later albums like Adore and Machina. The wall of sound, the great mixing by butch Vig and flood, and Billy’s original style of singing all link back to that in my opinion (Zeitgeist and The Future Embrace are the last two releases that still had traces of that OG pumpkins atmosphere imo).
There was a really great fan video that came sometime in the last two years or so that went into the new and old school album mixing in detail. I think it’s been taken down.
Absolutely love this album so far and only gets better with every play through. Not sure what the hell you all are talking about. Oh and the production is the best in years. Sounds unbelievably good on my stereo.
im talking about his inability to write a vocal melody that catches my ear like he did from 90-2000, that's what i'm talking about. The drums sound dry and compressed, I agree the music is good though.
@@DancingwithGhostsI think it's much easier to write a vocal melody when you have range. still, there are some vocal melodies on this album, but it seems more prog minded. in the past they were effortless because his singing style and voice allowed for it.
@@MrSteve88 when i heard them live his voice didn't sound all that different from the 90's when he was doing the old material
This is the album I've been waiting for since we heard "Solara". Not sure why it took 4 years to get there, but I love it. It sounds like the band sounds live today when they play something awesome like "Once in a Lifetime". I'm thrilled, honestly.
After listening to it, all I could remember was that WPC's lyrics were like a monotonous run-on sentence going through the whole thing.
that's exactly what it feels like
@@DancingwithGhostsYou both are too dumb to understand WPC
100% on point review. Musically its badass for the most part, despite having too many cliche riffs and billy's recent love of chugga chugga palm mutes. Maybe im just happy theyre not using the cheesy synth presets everywhere. But bury the vocals back in the mix amongst the fuzzed out guitars. Cant get into any of the vocal melodies. Bring back butch vig or flood.
I listened. It has that ‘made on a computer’ feel, because basically it was. The days of young man reckless experimentation that marked the masterpiece that was/is melon collie is long gone, creating unique textures with old school technical pushes like half speed guitars and the like, all to enhance a stellar set on songs. Now it’s sheer pretentiousness, veering into chilli pepper level ludicrousness in terms of titles, aquatic mouth dance & all that shit. The very sound of irrelevance. The depressing thing is when the bands that the pumpkins replaced became old and washed up, there was a vital new rock scene ready to take its place. Now there’s just an epic void of increasingly banal mainstream pop of ever widening vapidity. I’ll be 59 in November and feel really sorry for the likes of my nephews generation, who like you loves his classic rock but with a few exceptions they’re all gone, or old and infirm to the point of total irrelevance like the recent ac/dc gigs, which just look sad to me having seen them in their prime, a little like the debacle that was the last genesis shows, which you’ve previously covered with a brutal but completely justified take down. I saw my first concert in 1980, and can honestly say sadly in 2024 there’s barely anyone I would pay money for another more, Peter Gabriel I saw last year and he still has it, but he’s a rare exception.
Peter Gabriel is an artist of the first order that is keeping the dream alive. Alas, you are 100% correct in your assessment. You at 59 got to live through the most dynamic era of rock (for my money)
My 1st year of seeing rock concerts I saw Siouxsie and the banshees, talking heads, Motörhead, the jam, ac/dc, cheap trick, the clash, rush, thin lizzy, genesis, dire straits, yes, van Halen, the cure and rainbow - which sounds utterly ridiculous but back then gigs were a) cheap, and b) those were just all bands regularly touring, most of those above would play every other year, pretty much clockwork. Me and my friends would go to Hammersmith odeon or the rainbow theatre and just see who was playing the following month, and grab some tickets, Wembley arena as well but those shows were more expensive!
Awesome Vid!
Thank You very much for Your Work! Greetings from Germany
Personally, I genuinely really like the record - it’s very prog influenced soooo I felt the vocal melodies kind of worked to compliment the music. There’s no main vocal hook I don’t think is a bad thing - I remember him saying that Gish is basically an ‘instrumental record’ and I feel there’s some Gish influence at times here. Yes Gish is considerably catchier but I can hear sonically the influence.
It’s the best work Billy has done since Oceania. Is that faint praise? Not particularly - I genuinely think this is a huge jump forward by changing their sound up enough to make it unique but also knowing it’s them. Soooo yeah, I’m a fan of it! I would like to hear a more commercial rock album by them again but this record is a different beast entirely, so the comparisons to Billy’s 90’s stuff I feel can be negated somewhat here.
Believe me, Siamese Dream and Adore are two of my favourite records, ever. But I also appreciate what they’ve made here - it’s perhaps a little too quantised at times as there’s no true time sig changes, it’s on a click. Hopefully the next album will be…super heavy?! With screams?! Probably not haha
Ever since Cotillions i cant take Billys voice. Its very cold and robotic now. Its also like someone wearing ear buds and talking too loud.
yeah.. you're not wrong
great take - my sp mindset, in general is on exact same track. fun to hear it validated by others!
i personaly like the record alot but i gotta say that often, the lyrics sound like he typed his song premise into chatgpt and had it generate lyrics, often he sounds like he's just rambling cryptic stuff to make it sound like theres a deep meaning when itts just random stuff
dude it honestly feels that way with his lyrics these days like..wtf is this stuff that he's even talking about?
@@DancingwithGhostsYou can ask that for any era of Billy's lyrics
@@DancingwithGhostsmaybe get educated instead of doing video shorts
“On the down
Need a hit of iridium
On the town and tedium
Ghastly bland chameleons
Lost, I'm in
On the wheel
Bearing brunt and brutalist
No hint of sun or reverence
Stirring warmth and covenant
Lost, I'm in”
Like what in the fuck is he on about 😂
I've only listened to Aghori Mhori Mei once so far but i like it and would rather listen to this than thier last 3 albums. If i had to put it on a tierlist it would go at B for now. Where would you put it at?
solid -C tier for this album
@@DancingwithGhostssad
Compared to most post classic era Pumpkins albums, this one is one of the stronger ones. I genuinely like some of the riffs and even synth parts.
same, and i agree.. just dont know what happeend Billy's ability to write vocal melodies
This video is a let down, sorry but it feels like I'm just watching a bored dude who’s talking trash as if it were called “watch me hate on a new album.” aging exists and that’s just how it is. But you have your own opinion and so do I
it gets the clicks. granted some of his criticisms are valid about lyrics/vocals..but the album is MUCH better than he's willing to admit
@@MrSteve88 Yeah, I get that
Billy corgan always made strange lyrics like listen to songs like Mayonnaise or cherub rock but those songs had great vocals and a great melody and now his lyrics are even more strange and does have those things that made them good
These were my takeaways. Every single one. Thanks for the validation. Really wanted to live this one, but alas...
It's very often that an excellent band just gets depressingly mid as they get old.
sadly
Every single one of them does. The youthful hunger never lasts.
@@xenos_n. And we get older and everything changes. It's teenage angst wrapped in your memories of being a teen lol for me anyways
SP isn't a band anymore, the last time they were band was the Adore record. it's just Billy Corgan and his paid helpers.
@@aegisreflector1239 WTF are you talking about? Iha and Chamberlin are here and contributing equally as they did back then. If it bugs you that the majority of the songwriting is Corgan, FROM DAY ONE then you should definitely not like Siamese Dream, which was recorded ENTIRELY by just Billy and Jimmy. ENTIRELY. Ask Butch Vig.
I think Billy bullied this dudes grandpa back in the 80s...
Took his lunchbox everyday...lmfao
Sound wise it's fine but I couldn't tell you what the fuck billy was singing the two times I listened to the album lmao
lol yep pretty much.. same lyrical content that was found in ATUM and the last few pumpkins albums before that
mos def.
although the older i get the less i care about lyrics.
@@ng0249agreed.
Use headphones, and not the pathetic speakers of your iPhone to lissen to it.
@@miguelmelchior986 1. I don't have an iphone 2. I did.
Have you heard any of the Zodeon at Crystal Hall tracks yet? Hasn't been released yet, but they put out a bunch as bonus tracks on the deluxe Atum box set last year, so they're still pretty obscure. Kinda late-60s psychedelic pop sound, very organic and stripped down. Actual melodic hooks and understandable lyrics are involved. And of course, there's no timeline for when it will be properly released, if ever.
Considering how shit the last two SP albums were, this is a big improvement, however, there are no hooks on this album. Agreed that the lyrics have fallen off a cliff and the production is still nowhere where it should be. (FFS Corgan, stop producing!!) At least the shitty synths have been retired and are only used here to compliment the music. IDK, I'm starting to think SP are dead and I'll just stick to everything up to Zeitgeist.
FFS CORGAN! STOP PRODUCING!!
Cyr was incredible
@@DancingwithGhosts make this a shirt and mail it to his shitty PR team and manager who somehow thought it was a good idea to get this Amazon ceo looking numbskull behind a mixing board in 2024.
I had burried them already, but they moved…
I’m 44, first heard SP on the singles soundtrack and fell in love. Checked out Siamese Dream the second it was on the shelves. Got to see them a few times and even meet them. Last time I saw them was around 2016/17. He sounded absolutely incredible. Only played few “new” songs. It’s insane how much I love them and do not like any of their recent music. Grateful for them eternally ❤
I've heard the album twice. I love the first two songs. I feel like other songs will be growers. It's leagues better than Cyr & Autum. Compared to Shiny oh so bright it is more of an actual album than just a bunch of songs compiled in any order. Definitely doesn't touch Zeitgeist. I got Gish vibes throughout the album, but nothing from Siamese D or Mellon Collie.
i dont understand the constant comparisons to "gish", that was such an organic sounding, real album. They may have used some guitar tones that are reminiscient of the "gish" era but that's as far as it goes
@@DancingwithGhosts I mean in the way how the songs are structured, there was a gish like complexity to them. I agree the album doesn't sound raw like Gish & Zeitgeist but I felt the vibe was similar. Of course with all music, everyone has their own interpretation.
Billy's vocals sucks now and completely ruins the music. I loved his youthful, careless, voice. Now it's insufferable where he's trying to sound like a good vocalist and it's borderline hilarious. The music is good tho, it's a shame the vocals blow chunks. If his younger voice can be remixed with these songs it would be great
@@WarPigs413 AI and a bit of reverb could have helped alot. Also he should have had a backing vocalist... And did a compilation or pumpkins x singer album. Or atleast has guest vocalists... Hell, even acoustic would have made this sellable. But the fact he Truly tried to make something epic out of his Donald duck in a wind tunnel voice feels cheap and forced.
He became a more technically good singer. Try listeing to tonite live from 95 it aint pretty the vox haha.
I like how honest and direct your review is. Machina was my way into SP. I’ve never been more inspired by an album. It had great vocal melodies, lyrics, the (over)production suited the atmosphere, and Billy’s voice was very different (also different in the mix). Basically all the things that the new album doesn’t have. With the exception of parts of the second song, I found nothing interesting.
exactly.. take the melody from "Stand Inside Your Love"... gives me goosebumps.. WHY CAN'T HE WRITE LIKE THAT ANYMORE?
@@DancingwithGhosts Same here. SIYL is one of the best songs I’ve ever heard. Truly incredible. I’m willing to forgive less than great production as long as the melody is good. Zeitgeist is the last great SP album for me.
Loved it
Strong and beautiful sound. On headphones at least, as it should be. Good album, from the most recent stuff its maybe just not as good as Oceania, but sounds better. Beautiful thing to have them back to honest rock, sounds beautiful.
I’ve been waiting for this review, more than any other!
I have had mixed feelings about this. This is the best album he’s done in a long time, but it almost doesn’t matter at this point. Ten-plus years of crap music has killed my interest in this band. Also, I’m with you on the unpleasantness of his voice. Part of what made the Pumpkins of old so appealing is that Billy made his shitty voice work! He could make his voice almost pretty, in a way, and there was something about his angry scream that I loved! He now sings every song the exact same way, which gets boring fast!
you get it
This is the best review that I've found for this album from someone I can tell who really enjoys the legacy of the band. I feel like the album is lackluster and unfocused. There are a few good musical motifs and themes here, but everything feels overcompressed and it's kind of hard to hear anything. I hate feeling disappointed by this album, but I think it's only because I KNOW the band can do better (based on live performances and otherwise) and we keep getting presented albums that we are told to be compelling or interesting but they're just boring and miss the mark. I hope they get a better album later, but I wouldn't count on it.
ok so i just listened to it...... it's fine.
haven't heard a full pumpkins record since zeitgeist.
there's a lot on here i like, but man do i hate the way he chose to end it.
maybe this opinion will change over time, dunno.
despite some really nice pretty stuff and a section that i would describe as heavenly, that last track just kind of goes on a bit and then trails off and ends!?
wasn't paying attention to the tracklisting or time so i fully expected another song but nope, that was it.
to reiterate, i think i really like that last track, but i don't love it closing this "rock album".
and from what i've heard about their past couple albums it's just kind of more of the same?
will definitely be giving this some more spins, and working my way through the last decade+ of material that i have never heard, i just know that none of it is as good as here is no why lol.
By The Way Josh, have you listened to the 'Zodion At Crystal Hall'? They are 7" singles that came exclusively with 'Atum' Box set. 10 tracks that are not availabe digitally or on CD. Best ones that I could have found were MP3's that someone ripped off the vinyl. Granted they are not the best stuff ever either, more folky rock stuff. Goddamn fuck I hate how Billy does this. 'Machina II / The Friends & Enemies Of Modern Music' was so hard to track down and they are crusty fan rips aswell. There is going to be limited edition vinyl of 'Aghori Mhori Mei' aswell with 2 exclusive tracks.
yeah i hate how he does that as well.. Machine II is like a non-album in my mind because it was so fucking hard to track down back in the day.. and even if you did find it online it was questionable if you had the "official" version or some other thing with b-sides thrown it.. it was a mess
A musician's review of the new smashing, enjoyed it and agree with pretty much everything!
I agree his vocals are the weak point now as in the distant past it worked with the music. That said, I still think this is a great album. I thoughly am enjoying it
Billy's vocals were always a weak point, this isn't something new
@@a.williams1945 billy's voice was the whole reason i got into the smashing pumpkins to begin with.. FINALLY a voice that wasn't "pretty" or "industry acceptable" yet they sold millions of records. Much like Tom Waits... Billy could finesse his vocals into something interesting but he's too lazy and that's what pisses me off\ disappoints me
Great album that’s not a hour long
Great album. Return to form
Sorry to say that, but the album cover has decent goatse-vibes. Sums up the whole album for me personally, but I liked the minor Tool-influences though.
I just came to your channels to see if you ppisted about this, and got distracted watching some old videos
He’s a pretty savvy dude imagine if he went and found an unknown singer male or female and sculpted them into something worthy of his still relevant musical vision….he would def make for a formidable band leader in that capacity….love your insights on this record….
I LLOOVVEE the Pumpkins, but you nailed it. I can't get over the complete absence of relatable, simple lyrics (including dumbass songs and album titles) and ANY lyrical melodies or hooks. The first 3 tracks on Siamese Dream have more interesting "parts" than all the last 3 albums together.
oh by far.. i love how he acts like this record is a proper "throwback" as if it could stand in the same room as their 90's stuff
Was waiting for your review! Gonna give it a listen today. Im scared. I’m 31, maybe my all time fav band, but ATUM was terrible besides of 1-2 tracks, CYR was reeeeally mid, so yeah, im afraid. Would be sad to see such an iconic band go out with I don’t know, 5-6 bad albums. Or idk how many, based on the fact that these come out yearly now. Maybe the secret would be… 10 songs in 3-4 years… instead of like shitting out eeeeverything they write. But hey, from the reviews it seems like its the best from the cyr-atum and this trio.
It's way better than anything from their last few albums. I predict you'll be pleased.
the music is good. he just forgot how to write a vocal hook.. and on top of that his vocals don't sound very good anymore
@@DancingwithGhosts I'll take that over nothing at all 👍
@@grahamt19781 id take nothing tbh
@@DancingwithGhosts each to their own, man 👍
Thanks for being honest. I hate when I keep seeing pumpkins fans making excuses for this thing. It’s better than the last few but still not good. And I’ve been a pumpkins lover since I was like 9 in the 90s. He had some great riffs and hooks and then didn’t really do anything with them. I’m not sure if the songs are reminiscent of Tool but the album cover is a cross between Orgy’s debut and A Perfect Circle one.
True. I very much dislike the standard comment: “Guitars are back. What more could you ask for?” It’s like so what when the melodies aren’t there or seem completely random.
Ive lissened to Pentagrams a lot already.. , the gays are not young and on drugs, the magic is gone, but I can lissen to this, unlike their last few.. (Oceania not included, great album )
@@ifiagreeyoureright1969 The album sounds absolutely beautiful, on headphones its a treat. That is something. Not everything surely, but certainly something.
Very good review. I think a different producer would have helped this album.
Flood and Alan Moulder? 👍🏻
Zeitgeist is the last pumpkins album that I liked. "tarantula," "stars," and "thats the way my love is," were all great songs.
I honestly can't listen to this new stuff. Thanks for the review.
Zeitgeist was the last album that billy wrote lyrics that made sense and had hooks
@@DancingwithGhosts absolutely. Thanks for confirming SP are still weird.
It's a thin line between being deep & a pseudo intellectual. From what I've seen the older the rocker the harder they have toeing that line
He got way too into esoteric literature or something, I don’t know when he started writing this way.. I think it was his solo albums that inspired it but it’s so outside the realm of relatability at this point
Breaking news: His style is different than in 1993!!! Every single Corgan album has its own musical language. Compare this to Zodeon at Crystal Hall, if you even know about that record (was released last year as a bonus alongside Atum but has a completely different aesthetic).
His new style sucks
So has Radiohead and Red Hot Chili Peppers. They make albums that are distinctly them but there is new life going into them. And they keep things interesting. Smashing Pumpkins are ambitious but they seem to go a little too far in terms of what they want to focus on and sometimes it has mixed results. Who knows, these albums could be vindicated by history. Hell I can see younger people getting into new Pumpkins.
It wasn’t what I was expecting I’ve only listen to it once so far all the way through I’ll listen to it again but it’s just missing something and it feels unfinished but I can’t work out why
It's the vocals. They feel like a tacked on afterthought.
Thank you for this - brought me back to the deep shallowness of Billy post Gish and Dream...How fame inflates your persona so you believe the image is you....Billy - it's a facade - stoping trying to polish your self conscious trying to be cool effort - there was none of this on Gish and Dream - Butch Vig - Where is Butch? Oh, would follow his esthetic sensibilities today? Stick a pin in that balloon. Thank you for your honest clear mediation to help us appreciate what we are hearing even more. I'll listen to Edin one last time then we're done. There are bands like Elder and Giants and The Dark Bright with far more emotional reward.... Poor Jimmy - just trying to cameo his 1990s self - heroine offer one originality cuz you are out of the way and the numen reaches through you...
The album cover is : The Dark Side of the Moon in the style of SP= equals ( 0) Zero
lol
I wish Billy would stop trying too hard for something profound and just sing like he sung on Annie-Dog off Adore. That’s a pretty normal singing voice that doesn’t sound bad at all. I’m sure he can still do that
he's really boxed himself in with the way he's been singing in the past decade
Ten songs!? Thank god this one will be a lot easier to digest. I thought AUTM was mid (5/10) but a few damn good songs! At least Smashing Pumpkins seems to be aging WELL in this current decade (unlike other bands I used to like such as Muse and 30 Seconds to Mars 😂)
They can still perform their old songs very well live, he can do whatever he wants but maybe they should be like system or a down or rage and just stick to the old stuff and be a live band only 🤷🏻♂️
@@DancingwithGhostsno cus system is capable of new music that is good but instead serj and daron do their own thing
I love your content but im afraid to listen to this album or listen to a review, SP sucks shit since machina. I know you like zeitgeist, and I hated that album when it came out but wouldnt mind going back to those days. I think its this home studio revolution making all these new albums sound like brittle shit.
i still cannot understand the people who hate Zeitgeist.. that was SUCH a fantastic SP album
@@DancingwithGhosts Great video by the way. The issue I always had with Zeitgeist is that it falls off a cliff after song number 5 and never comes back up. 'Neverlost' is decent but 'Stars' is weird in a camp way, 'United States' is forced and boring, '(Come On) Let's Go' is on the wrong record - it's a Zwan song, 'For God and Country' is lame and 'Pomp and Circumstance' in my opinion is embarrassing. If they had replaced that second half with the other tracks scattered in the different coloured version, it could have been one good coherent record.
@@DancingwithGhosts The guitars and drums in Zeitgeist hit hard, they kick ass actually. It's just his voice and...it changed around then. Can't really put my finger on it, but also his vocal melodies are odd to me now. And now their mixes sound 'modern' in a bad way. Coming from a guy who felt like he was the only one that really liked Adore, Machina and the even the Zwan album. Zeitgeist isn't awful, it just disappointed me.
@@DancingwithGhosts I'm traumatized by the first 10 seconds of Bleeding the Orchid. I've never gotten over it!
There is a fan remixed version of Zeitgeist with his vocal burried in mix and some guitars out that wasnt even there before. I highly recommend trying it out. With that version it almost feels like a proper SP album.
I really want to love this album. I love hard rocking pumpkins with layered guitars and heavy riffs, but... this album is massively lacking in hooks. I've listened multiple times now and I still can't identify a memorable melody.
Is there some good guitar on it ? Any sonic leads ? Some guitar noodling is good .
This is my new favourite comedy channel.
thanks i think
I hear a lot of tool and a perfect circle in this new album. I’m not sure if I really like it yet, I only listen to half the album.
Been a fan of them since the 90s. I feel like the days of iconic albums from thees types of bands are over. Everything seems mediocre. I guess once you write such an album it’s hard to replicate.
Brilliant review. His voice has ruined most records since 2000. Musically they shred. But yes he sings gibberish now. Does he use AI?Maybe time for a new vocalist 😂 This record is average.
Zeitgeist is a great record. But yeah, aside from that, post 00's has been garbage
another victim of modes and odd meters
Good music > omg golden ratio in music
I love myxolydian but damn do people over use it
The drums and the vocal sound were my criticism too. The songs are good, but the drummer is supposed to be Jimmy friggin Chamberlin, master of drums. How come the drums sound like programmed midi drums in a Pro Tools project on a laptop 98% of the time. This breaks the 4th wall to me. Other than that I acknowledge them for putting out a solid and coherent rock record and Billy is just a good guy
yeah the drums sounded quite weak. This album was a supposedly a "going back" album and yes... they did have some rock riffs that were cool but nothing else about the album sounded like "vintage" pumpkins to me. They could have at least recorded the album like they did back in the day to add some authenticity to the "going back" claim.
@@DancingwithGhosts True that. I guess they simply don't have the time anymore to actually record in-the-room with all the touring and personal life. Laying down riffs to a click track is more efficient and touring friendly.
Good, sometimes great, instrumentation. Word salad with no melody.
Dude totally agree the top lines fucking suck. Billy can’t write good memorable vocal melodies anymore. That vocal impersonation took me the fuck out 🤣🤣
It's not on Amazon
Agree 100% with your review. The vocals ruin it and have no melody. Stop singing the thesaurus Billy !
His vocals are still trash. Non relatable lyrics. BUT, jimmy finally shines with the drums. Sadly another pass for me.
Yep… sadly same my friend
Sounds bitter, like you would talk about your ex😂
No memorable vocal melodies on the album, you're correct. The new Marilyn Manson song is better than anything on the new Smashing Pumpkins album.
Vocal melodies have never been Corgan's strength
I found the new MM plodding
@@NarrowShouldersOpenMind i disagree, he used to have some of the best vocal melodies of the 90's
Why don't you just get into a time machine and travel to 1996. Dude, 30 years have passed since that "band" no longer exists and will never return. We all know that they only make one album and don't repeat it again. What did you think you were going to hear the second part of Jellybelly? You may not like the new music, that's fine, but what's the point of always wanting to go back to what you've already done? It is the death of any Artist... This album just is what it is, and I think it's beautiful, unique and fresh. But you can still listen to everything from 2000 onwards.
reviewing this quickly makes for an unreliable review. also either way im sure the album sucks
lol
I think the main problem with this album is Corgan's melodies. Most of them sound repetitive, monotonous and lazy. To the point where I think "this album would be much better if it were instrumental". It's impossible for a composer not to listen to himself and notice that he's repeating himself, and even worse, not to do anything to get around it. Anyway, there are many old bands that manage to remain interesting, Smashing Pumpkins is not one of them. I understand and respect that many people liked this album, but for me I'll pass. There are many good artists making music right now, many good albums have been released this year, it's better to spend my time listening to these more interesting things.
yep, the melody writing is quite poor on this album, that's it's glaring flaw
Maynard’s vocals never were jaw dropping either
TOOL is like Xanax: The Music and this new Pumpkin's is like a TOOL album. Good playing, just boriung
The guitars and drums are fantastic on this album. Unfortunately the lyrics are so obscure and unintelligible.
I just don't like the metal aesthetic he keeps repeating but at least he dialed down the god awful synths..Its a sound repeated since Zeitgeist. I miss sunnier tones like Whir,La Dolly Vita,Thats The Way,Here Is No Why and 99 Floors.There has been very little variation. I've noticed a lack of variation in the music on the last several records and I think after 20 years it's safe to say the vocals being extremely high in the mix will always be a thing with this trying to sound modern approach.Billy simply is not a good producer.
A new release from Billy will always get a listen from me but that's about all I commit to as a music listener.
The word salad is Billy's pretentious way of coming across as a sophisticated word smith and poet but it just comes off as disconnected and unlistenable.
I don't buy releases from BC because the quality isn't there with the albums or archive releases.
If there's essential music I've never heard on an archive release or a new album that has a direction I really connect to then bring it. I will invest the time and money on Machina reissue, Zwan reissue, Chicago Kid,unreleased material from 2004 -2024 then I will throw money down
What’s slightly more annoying than Corgan’s (lack of) vocal melodies, poor production, and lyrics is everyone who likes the new songs because there are guitars.
wellllllllllllll when some of your most classic material is all guitar-based, I think it's reasonable to expect that from them at least every now and then
Nailed it
Is he just bored of making regular songs so he's only interested in making weird shit now?
i just think he hates SP fans who liked his 90's stuff
shoud do a review of the new manson song
meh, i never really cared about Manson
Get out of my head! First listen I heard Tool in a few songs. First listen to Pentagrams was "Ghost ripoff!", then it proceeded to not be near as good as a Ghost song. Totally agree that vocals and lyrics hit bottom on this album. Been a fan since I got a tape copy of Gish from my friend's brother a month after it came out. I figured out how to appreciate Cyr and even a lot of ATUM to a degree. I've learned you have learn how to listen to Pumpkins records since Oceania. There are good songs that take time to appreciate. AMM doesn't have anything approaching Snail, Muzzle, Here Is No Why, Geek USA, Spaceboy, Luna, Tarantula or anything that you know is going to be good 6 seconds in and only going to get better. Notice I didn't even mention any past anthems or singles. Just solid songs that were creative, paint a great picture vocally and comprised a great album. Saw them on their UK tour with Weezer back in June. Never thought it would turn out that Weezer was the better of the two shows. 6 of 21 songs were stuff no one really cared about. At least it was some of the good songs off of ATUM that got played, but a wall of noise metal Zoo Station (U2) and long Gossamer...yuck. Replace those two with Geek USA, XYU or Starla and you've got a solid set. At first pass, AMM is, unfortunately, exactly what I expected.
"Big bald brain" 😂
I just got done listening to it it was decent definitely not thier best
Are you even old enough to critic billy?
Penguin vocals
RUSH
yes
This is why Zeppelin is the best. Every album is amazing. I give Billy props for the 1st four albums, but it doesn't deliver anymore for me. I'm done trying because after seeing them live this year, they didn't play shit from Gish or any of the old albums and they didn't even have an encore. Jane's Addiction on the other hand embraced their early stuff and were so much more fun.
Sicarus chorus - awful.
Billy has taken the harmonic quality of Tool (every song and riff in D) but unlike Tool, where the rhythm is interesting, Billy plays the usual 4/4 and there is nothing that peaks your interest.
The music of Tool slowly unravels and climaxes somewhere, unlike the Pumpkins where you’ve heard everything the song has to offer within 10 seconds.
Soulless release for me.
Maynyard's voice has preserved as Billy's has not .. that's my main issue.. plus Billy refuses to write a melody thats not atonal .. but in all fairness Tool's last album was garbage as well
If it’s so easy to write a memorable melody why have we not heard of you?
Your inability to understand metaphor is not a measure of an albums quality.
I feel like I've written some damn good melodies. You've not heard of me because I'm up and coming in a music industry that is basically non-existent. This is literally the worst time in the past 50 years to try to put out rock music. I honestly don't know why I took the time to respond to this dumbass comment.
HEAVE HO!
Billy might be preoccupied with running his wrestling promotion, the NWA. Could be affecting his music quality
he's had these problems way before the wrestling stuff.. the music is good so he's able to focus on things but his vocals are not one of those things that he cares to put to put time into for whatever reason
Lmao alot of books in the bald brain. It sounds like it's all metaphor which is equally boring
agreed, and unrelatable
@@DancingwithGhosts I listened to it twice to give it a chance and yeah it needs to be remastered and remixed or something... We see alot of artists cross over into electronica now... Nelly Furtado for example, is bigger than ever doing house music... The pumpkins has a few chances to reinvent themselves... But as you say I think bill Corgan is such an ego asshat now it would be impossible without many lawyers and him not being involved at all aside from his voice... Which is obviously completely gone now
Old school bands shouldn’t release new music. No one pays to see them to hear new shit.
I don't know if it's music business pressures, but huge mainstream bands definitely tend to get worse with age. However, there are a lot of indie bands I follow that've somehow gotten better after 30 years (Examples: Low and Slowdive).
you just kind of typed the sad truth out loud...
@@DancingwithGhosts All I know if I pay $100 to see the Pumpkins I just want to hear Siamese Dream up to Melancholy
The new SP album is very 'meh'. Listened to it twice and nothing's stuck with me
the music was there.. just no melody
The intro to Pentagrams is awful. Why does no one care about chord progressions anymore? Those chords are horrible and the tone is dreadful.
i thought the intro was the most interesting part.. everything went down hill after that
@@DancingwithGhosts those chords though, they are ugly and not pleasing to the ear. No one seems to talk about chord progressions. They sound like Corgan was trying to please Rick Beato. Same goes with that Sojourner song from Atum... I'm not narrow minded when it comes to chords, but they are not Corgan chord progressions. At least they weren't. Also, the chorus to whatever the penultimate song on this album is - can't be arsed to look it up!