I just wanna address that Im somewhat incorrect on the combat. It's definitely more complex than I expected, but I still stand by my point that it's not complex enough for a game that was originally advertised as a combat game. It's definitely a game for casual players, but I can see that I was slightly off the mark on my original assessment of the combat but that's just how first impressions are. I still stand by my core message in the video but there's still a lot I have to learn and maybe I'll come to enjoy the game once I nail everything. HOWEVER, i dont think its possible to dive this deep into the combat in the first 10 ish hours of the game, and i still think ZZZ leaves a lot to be desired in the early game which can be tweaked. It seems to have the same issues HI3 had on release, and itll probably get better with due time, but at least in its current iteration, the introduction is pretty good, could be better paced. updated migame thoughts: the game's starting to grow on me and the combat is pretty fun for a casual game. I think if you're just looking for a gacha game to cruise thru (similar to HSR), this could be it. Even the hardest mechanics in this game are pretty easy compared to WuWa, and that's not a bad thing. I think hoyoverse is better off advertising this game as a slice of life game than the combat game they've been advertising it as, because I think I would've enjoyed this game more initially if I knew what I was getting into. I'd like to make it clear though that I still think the introduction could be better. I wouldn't have played this game until this point if it weren't for the fact that I made a promise that I'd review this game once I hit the endgame. BUT, the combat is pleasantly a lot better now.
This is just my opinion but I love how casual the game feels. I’ve dabbled in HI3 every now and then, but I always get burnt out at the end of it because of how much there is to do on a weekly basis. I think your opinion is perfectly valid since you are a HI3 veteran. However, I also think it’s okay for the game to be dumbed down in complexity. When games become super complex, it just may not be as fun anymore.
@@CommadoNoob yeah thats completely understandable! I think there exists a fanbase for this game, and its probably on the opposite end of a lot of the hardcore honkai impact players lol
I totally agree with you, the parry and dodge in this game is amazing and really fun to play with but to compare it with Hi3rd I still see that Hi3rd still have that something that I enjoy more. The only thing that I don't like since we get into the part 2 is how they changed the gacha mechanic in hi3rd or if not then I'm just having the worst of all (80 roll for Thelema, 70 roll for her full stigma and weap, failed to get senadina, Lantern and right now still trying to get Lil Que 😥 )
ZZZ makes me think back to the release of Star Rail. I was so in the market for a good turned based game and I really wanted to like it but the super stripped down game design made me feel like ti wouldn't last. Now, just over a year in, I really like Star Rail and I feel like the game manages to have engaging combat with turns that consist of choosing basic or skill. For ZZZ, I've personally only had a good time so far playing. It's definitely getting carried by presentation but I'm hopeful that more engaging combat will come as we get more characters and enemies to fight. Hoyo's track record seems to support this(maybe not genshin). Those first couple characters you get stuck playing at the start of HI3 are super basic as well after all. My personal biggest worry with ZZZ is the character faction/element match system. The restriction could be a good way to allow more characters to occupy specific niches, but it was only after my third S rank that I could actually make a 3/3 functional team that wasn't just the starting cast. I'm worried about what this could make the new player experience look like after a year or so.
Yeah there's a chance that the release of characters could make the game more engaging, but at least with its current roster, it feels pretty bare bones. I'm glad you've enjoyed the game so far
I honestly dont mind the TV system. I do however want it to have some fixings, like being able to zoom out more, advance mode not skipping dialogue voice lines(optional). In the long run, make the tv system short enough that exploration in the area itself would be more appreciated.
@@OfficialNeonScratch the TV mode wouldn't be that bad if it weren't for the fact that some quests are like exclusively tv mode. I think most people downloaded zzz for the combat, and that goes for me too
For the people who dislike TV sequence, I have just one question, are you a story skipper? Because I can totally see from your perspective if you skip story, then you won't understand why you do the things you do in TV mode, like pushing bombs and chasing a train. In this day and age, a lot of people don't care about the story of a game, they just want a skip button and go ham in action right away.
Since you asked the question: No, I'm not a story skipper. I love good stories in video games. But I don't see the TV system as a good way to tell a story because of how disconnected it is from the actual meat of the game. It's like when Developers back in the 2010's had a hard-on for adding stealth sections in their combat games. They were almost never good because it pulled you away from what the game is actually good at. Another example from a story-telling perspective is mandatory walking scenes replacing cutscenes. You're technically playing the game but its at the cost of just having a good and engaging cutscene.
I'm a big story guy. I can only play a game if it has good story. its also the only reason I still play genshin, because I don't enjoy the gameplay or exploration of genshin anymore, but I think the story is fire. The TV mode does nothing for the story for me.
@@liteyearsx Just to see if I got this right. If the game becomes fighting, fighting, then 2 characters stands there and talking, talking, back to fighting and more fighting, then again, 2 characters stand there talking and talking with some minor hand movement. Would that be more interesting than watching a moving block in TV mode? I mean, that's basically what Genshin and Wuthering Wave play out most of their conversations outside of an animated cutscene. Sorry for bringing up those games but I felt they are more easily referenced by many.
2 characters talking in this game is more than just minor hand movement. They are very animated and lively, so you cant compare 2 characters talking in this game to 2 characters talking in genshin and wuwa. Second, I'm not saying that 2 characters talking to each other is better than the TV gameplay (but imo it lowk is), but there's better ways to present the narrative without having to use this shit TV gameplay. Do i know what's a better way? No, but that's not my job either. Hoyoverse surely couldve came up with something better than this.
@@nekochen Since this is tagged to me I'll answer this, but that isn't my point at all. My point is the TV system doesn't help me be engaged in the story and serves more as a distraction, and there are better ways that it could have been done. Off the dome: A good immersive cutscene is better than the TV system. Having bigger fight areas and having dialogue during combat is better. Having specialized missions like "carry the bomb to the train while fighting off enemies" would be better.
Hoyoverse realized that 90%+ of their fanbase has like ZERO skill when it comes to combat (easy to see when most of them can't even clear Spiral Abyss after 4 years . . . or find the new endgame mode "hard" when it's even easier). So that's only logic that they made ZZZ dull as F and easy as F I'm with you on that : this game won't hook me for weeks, I'm pretty sure I'll stop playing in a day or two, too dull when you come from HI3 part 2 character's kits / air combos / etc
I was also expecting something DMC-like, more akin to APHO3 but I’m actually kinda enjoying the combat. The combat is deeper than my initial thought but I still think it can stand to be more complex. Agreed on the cooldowns. The vibes in this game though, is simply immaculate. I think at the moment I enjoy it more than Impact. As someone else put it, the combat feels more reactionary. I feel like the enemies’ actions factor more on my decision-making than 3rd where it feels like I’m just going through the motions of a rotation.
I was looking exactly for this video, a honkai impact 3rd player's perspective. I didnt feel like downloading zzz but i have so much fun with HI3 part 2 (in redlotus tho, not anything crazy) Thanks for your insight!
Regarding complains of the ult/special charges, i think it's bad on purpose because that's the lowest rate it can be, you'll notice that as you level up alot, Crit % and Crit DMG start to become excessively higher, and ult charges (decibels bonuses) is something you can actually increase with either the W-Engine or the 6 Disk slots at lv 26. Now, regarding the fact there's only 1 ult usable and not 3 ult in a row, i think ultimately it's a "ok" move to make "meta" stuff more specific and difficult, because if you really wanted the most optimal team possible, you'd need 1 character with maximum ult stats increase, 1 being the startup (debuffer), and 1 DPS that is only applicable when buff is on. Overall, your options expands at lv26, but it is as you said, its a arcade type (casual) that isn't meant to be tryharded. i picked up ZZZ and not any other gachas simply cause it looks more "pocket" where transitioning to my PC > Phone for 15 min is fast.
@@kenamii thank you for pointing these things out! I havent gotten to that stage of the game yet, but i think that ultimately hoyoverse needs to do a better job at optimizing the early game if thats the case, because imo (and many others), the early game feels like one huge 10 hour tutorial
Would be great to see a video from you, adressing some of the issues with the combat and how you would try to fix it besides having just more ults or ex recharge
Maybe I might, I have a lot of thoughts on the combat considering how I've seen honkai impact's combat went from something similar to this to something a lot more complex
It might not be totally fair to judge the energy/skill mechanics based on early game due to the presence of energy recharge as a stat, which you really aren't going to get any appreciable amount of until inter-knot level 40+. I do agree that at the current moment, there's not a lot of skill usage and a lot of left clicking (on the one hand, that really depends on the character, on the other hand, as an example, I'm not sure Grace's left-click/right-click alternate spam is much better than left click spam a lot of other characters end up with), but energy recharge is one of those things that really tightens up a lot of rotational ability. (Although that said, it's always hard to judge how "deep" any combat is in the early game; I said this of WuWa as well).
Yes that's why this is an early review, and I will do an end game review. The issue is that a game should try to draw you in, and the excuse "the game gets better after x hours" is not valid to me, because I think a game should HAVE To draw you in. I shouldn't be playing this game with the expectation of having fun after x hours, I should be having fun at the start. Energy recharge shouldn't be a needed stat to make the combat more interactive in the early game
@@BaoPham2I absolutely agree with you. The “its fun after x hours” cope already happened in other game (diablo 4 cough cough*) it shouldn’t be like this Personally it felt like zzz introducing the mechanic too slow and soft, probably to get more casuals and newcomer of the genre to play. But it is very boring to play if you are a average gamers. Anyway As a player that reached lv 36 the boss fight is actually fun especially the ballet sister. A peek into what this game could be
For the story I completely agree with you in terms of setting not being established. Unfortunately Hoyo has a track record for dropping whack jargon or needing to research outside of the game to understand the basis of the story, HI3 was like that in the first parts hence why I disliked the medium that HI3's story was presented, Genshin's character stories are locked behind crucial events that will most likely never rerun, so far HSR does it really well. As for the combat, I 100% agree with you with the combat feeling mundane. HOWEVER the way I see ZZZ, is that Hoyo is trying to experiment with the old HI3 combat and refine it. So far they refined the movement mechanics and fluidity but haven't fully refined the combat itself. I definitely do see the game being challenging even in its current state as long as they make more difficult bosses with unique movesets. ZZZ feels too "limiting" for a combat game and honestly feels like a mindless button mash. So far Hoyo has 2 "main" games which are HI3 and Genshin then they have 2 "casual" games which are ZZZ and HSR. The spectrum for whether a game is casual or not is hard to define but Genshin is definitely in the middle of those 2 as majority of the playerbase are those who haven't touched nor played as much games/gachas. HSR is leaning on the casual side however still offers difficult and strategic combat for the more "hardcore" players. ZZZ is completely casual and the complete opposite against HI3. HI3 is overwhelming for a new player whereas ZZZ settles the new player in quite easily. That being said, I still enjoy the game very much and will most likely keep it in my gacha game library until Endfield comes out
Well my only option to play WuWa right now is on mobile, where it quite honestly plays like hot ass. Not a jab at the game itself, just at the platform itself and how scuffed action games are on it. ZZZ is scratching that itch at least until Kuro brings out a console version, so i think im being kinder to it than i otherwise would be.
thats fair. Wuwa is so badly optimized even for PC, but even more so phones. I have the newest android chip (snapdragon 8 gen 3) and I got my phone in February of this year and I still can only run WuWa at like 40 fps
after play pgr and part 2..i just cant click with ZZZ's combat..the parrying is satisfying..but it just..something missing..i dont know how to explained it..the speed? intensity?
@@lostdrink9491 i think variation. The combat doesnt get much different unless u unlock new characters, and even then, its still fundamentally very similar between characters
@@BaoPham2 yes and also the lack of variation of enemy attack. They could made some un parry able so maybe dodge could be utilized more, or maybe shorten parry timing when certain attack occur, Because right now people just use their parry as easy get away.
i had quit HI3 after maintaining Redlotus for about a year as f2p which burnt me out and part 2 wasent hitting right so i quit. ZZZ came out and i put about 12 hours into it, after claiming its a combat focused game the way they designed combat is flawed tbh. There's so many limiting factors, the break and qte mechanics are unique but flawed, the only "theory crafting" you need to do is put in the 3 characters of choice and because of how the breaking and qte mechanic works and how slow you gain ultimate and the fact that only one unit can use that ultimate, the game just plays itself. 90% of the time its the exact same rotation forced down my throat by forced qte. the combat just feels very scuffed and just much much worse then hi3
That's exactly how I feel too. I was really looking forward to this game as a modern refresh of HI3 but it feels like they just made the combat of HI3 worse, and added an admittedly cool gimmick with the new QTE system, but made everything else slower. I think I could see casual players really liking this combat system, and one of my friends like that it's not flashy and more chill, but it's just not for me.
@@BaoPham2 i feel like we might be jumping the the gun a bit fast. early HI3 gameplay is pretty mid as well i feel lol. there probably isn't much we could do back when our S Rank was valks like DB, Blood Rose, etc. weapon skills were also probably quite bad back then, though i really don't remember. as for Ults, i agree having only 1 feels bad :(
I don't want this to sound like and accusation but it kinda annoys me that you talk about the combat being spam left click when 2 of the charcters you use have unique autos, Lycaons being charged and Soldier 11 having timing based autos, I'm not saying your wrong about this I do Agree you do spend alot of time just autoing. If you honestly were unaware fair enough but it taints my view of this video slightly.
i mean you can literally see me timing my autos on soldier 11 in the video. I'm very aware of the differences in gameplay between these characters but the fact is that it doesn't feel like im doing much to break the monotony of mostly basic attacking.
@@BaoPham2 And that's a fair opinion to Have it just feels bias to say that the game has non of these mechanics, when you are just simply not fully using them. Maybe its because I mainly use ellen who has to mix up with dash attacks but I so far haven't felt the Gameplay was monotonous because I had options other then spamming left click. edit: If you had said that I probably wouldn't have had an issue at all but it just annoyed me that you completely ignored it.
@@Septella but I'm literally using the mechanics that are given to me? If they lock fun behind Ellen, how does that make the game as a whole good? The game as a whole should be good no matter what characters you have. I'm trying to the utmost of my ability to use soldier 11's timed attacks as well as Lycaon's charged attacks. There's just not enough mechanics to make this game a true "combat" game. Have you played DMC or HI3? Those are true combat games. The reason I ignored it is because those mechanics are character locked, and those mechanics (afaik) are locked behind Ellen, soldier 11, and maybe Ben's parry. Charged attack is not a notable enough mechanic that should be mentioned. Infact, every character should have a charged attack. That's literally a standard in HI3, WuWa, Genshin, why not this game? here's my point, how are you gonna market this a combat game and have less combat mechanics than WuWa or genshin impact? It's fine if you enjoy the combat, but the aforementioned mechanics you mentioned are character locked, and now that I've unlocked Ellen, yes the game's more fun, but the game's enjoyabiliy shouldn't increase by like 200% because I got the new gacha character. That just makes the game paywalled, and character unique mechanics does not contribute to the universal combat system which is what I'm more concerned with. If you're annoyed with me ignoring character specific mechanics, I'm sorry, but I don't think it's fair to lock a majority of the game's fun behind the newest banner character. I also don't think it makes sense to mention character specific mechanics when imo, it doesn't improve the game's universal combat system, and it seems like ellen is really the only one that has a kit that deviates a significant amount from the combat that everyone else has to work with. And the biggest reason I don't mention this is because it doesn't change the gameplay much for me. This is my own review and my own experience, and at least soldier 11's special timed attacks or Lycaon's charged attack doesn't change the universal flaws of the combat system enough for me to mention it. Character specific mechanics are just not worth mentioning cause they're just an extension to left click gameplay
@@BaoPham2 I'm probs not going to respond more after this because I think we simply just do not agree. First Yes I did play hi3rd for about 5~6 ish months I can't remember exactly but I started around Hof and I know I got silverwing before I quit. (I quit because bluestacks is an ass, and while I did redownload it when 7.1 came about the Ui gave me a headache and I gave up) Second this might be petty but in the whole video I didn't see you use a Lycaon Charge attack a single time ('to the Utmost of my ability') the reason I assumed you didn't know soldiers mech was because honestly when I first played her I thought it was just random unless you had her exskill like hsr's sushang. And I do agree with you when the enemy is recovering from stun and after you have used most of your burst you do just basic attack alot and most characters have nothing interesting to do with their basics, I just feel like we have had different experiences because at least against large enemies i mentally separate the fights into 2 sections the parry and regen energy stage and the stunned burst stage and in neither of these do i feel like you primarily auto, idm man maybe I'm just wrong about this. Like I went and played ellen intentionally not using her dash attacks and I don't feel like the gameplay devolves into just auto spamming. Maybe I'm a simple person and like the loud ding of the parry.
@@Septella you're right that I wasnt playing correctly in the video, and I decided to invest a few hours into learning the core of the combat, and I think I still stand by my point that the combat is still not complex enough (although there is more to the combat than I initially said). We can agree to disagree, and I think I've found a middle ground where I've realized there's more to this game that can't be found within the first 8 hours or so, but thank you for your comments. I think comments like yours have helped me research deeper into the combat. I stand by my review that this is meant more for casuals than HI3 but I could maybe see myself enjoying it at least in the late game
Well, Marisa Honkai have better opinion regarding ZZZ than you. And since Marisa Honkai already playing Honkai since 2019, I will more trust him than you.
@@sayidash1583 by that logic, since I've been playing honkai impact since 2018, you should trust me more. Anyways yeah it's my own opinion, why are you weighing mine vs. his?
1. No, but that shouldn't matter. A game should be fun from the start. I shouldn't have to put in x hours to finally start enjoying the game. Also this is an early review 2. NA and I do have an alt on SEA
@@BaoPham2 Considering genshin 1.0 was a snooze and yapfest of a story and hi3 is a gigantic yapfest until chapter 8.... and also looking at WuWas story being trash UNTIL jiyans chapter, then it picks up. ZZZ is just establishing its world like all other games did. Its slow at first, yes, but it picks up quickly in chapter 2, especially past the midway point and just gets more intruiging from there. But thats purely subjective, its slow at start, I agree. Your combat take is throwing me off tho, your skills take too long to recharge? I am throwing out EX skills left and right in abundance and dont even have enough time to fully get rid of my energy. Ultimates are easily 3 times (would be more of i didn't clear combat already at that point). Its about as frequent as in Honkai impact, only difference is that you cant compare a weapon skill with an EX skill. EX skill could be compared more to a burst mode attack than a weapon skill. The difficulty of the story is toned down in normal mode and ramps up in hardmode, real combat is later on in guiding missions, area purge, hollow zero, shiyu, notorious hunts. THIS is where you have to be on your toes. Sidenote: The reason you have no energy recharge is that, in the small pieces of gameplay you show, you are fucking up any semblence of rotations. Not using Lucys Cheer on buff for soldier 11. Not using Lucys Ult to regain 30 energy (EX Skills take too long to charge? Maybe thats why) for Soldier 11. Not using Nekos innate buff by playing hyper agressive with dodge counters into EX skills. Not using Nicoles forced QTE trigger nekomatas switch in skill. You have alot to learn about the combat and inputs. Half your shit is just casul mode without any resemblence of having read the skills. Nicoles Gathering ether field reduces enemy defense, nekos switch in skill has enough AOE to cover the entire bubble, chaining stun gauges of multiple opponents to force trigger multiple chain attacks etc. Also you can switch cancel every single animation in this game, the question just is, do you want to? EX Skills are fully invulnerable, so you can dodge attacks with them and easily apply more dmg. I'm not saying your entire opinion is wrong, until the middle of chapter 2, you can autopilot the game for real, but if you notice how deep every characters abilities and interactions go, there is alot to uncover.
When I made my take on combat, I asked around a lot of people (probably around 15 people) and they all had the same issue with CD's being too long. If you think the current CD's are you throwing out skills, then I think we just have a different perception of time. But I've never seen anyone say the CD's are fast, and I havent seen anyone "throwing out skills left and right". As for the animation cancelling and stuff you're talking about, you're right that I wasn't knowledgable enough to do everything you're saying, but now that I've spent time to learn more about the combat (I'm currently using an ellen team) and have about an additional 6 hours on the game from this video, I still maintain my stance that this game is not complex enough. Maybe I'm just spoiled because I love DMC and HI3, but this is not a combat game. The peak combat of this game is just quick time events. I took your suggestions and tried to learn everything, I've watched other ppl from CBT play end game, and it's just not appealing to me. It's not as easy as I initially made it out to be and I apologize, but I still stand by the fact that it is not nearly on the same level as DMC or HI3, which is what I'd expect from a game that's advertised to be a combat game. You're not wrong that I'm doing everything wrong in this video, but even after I spent a few hours learning the combat, I still stand by these 2 points. 1. It shouldn't take 10 hours+ of play time to get energy recharge to rechage my skills faster. If skills feel slow in the beginning, that's a flawed early game that should be tweaked to be more digestible. 2. This is not a combat game if you compare it to DMC and HI3 3. You're right that my initial impression of combat is very shallow, but that's just how first impressions are. I don't think other people who played the first 8 hours of this game were nearly as knowledgeable either, but I bear a different responsibility since I made a video on it so that's on me. However, I still stand by my stance that this game's mechanics are just not deep enough for a combat game, and there's much more character specific mechanics that go deeper in games like DMC or HI3. But I'd like to apologize for my initial shallow review of the combat, but tbf, its also a first impression and there's a reason I made a promise to play to the end game so that I could give an updated review. Everything you say here will be addressed in a few weeks once I'm at the end game. There's a lot more I wanna say since the more I play this game, the more I realize it has the same flaws as HI3 on release, but I think I'd just be yapping at you at this point so I'll reserve those thoughts unless you really wanna hear them.
Combat in this game is PEAK example of style over substance. As a big dmc fan etc who’s been looking forward to this game for years…. Yeah that was the most disappointing part by far
I'm a big story reader. I'm just giving example of jargon dropping. Even if they explain it, it's still jargon dropping (not to mention they kinda dont explain it well). The entire reason I still play genshin is because of the story because I think the gameplay and exploration have lost its charm on me, I am not a story skipper. If I was, I wouldn't have made a segment on the story alone in this video.
@@Roihclem871 thats a big part of it for me. I cant rate this game holistically because youre sacrificing time on other potential games by playing this one so i need to constantly compare it to other games
I just wanna address that Im somewhat incorrect on the combat. It's definitely more complex than I expected, but I still stand by my point that it's not complex enough for a game that was originally advertised as a combat game. It's definitely a game for casual players, but I can see that I was slightly off the mark on my original assessment of the combat but that's just how first impressions are. I still stand by my core message in the video but there's still a lot I have to learn and maybe I'll come to enjoy the game once I nail everything. HOWEVER, i dont think its possible to dive this deep into the combat in the first 10 ish hours of the game, and i still think ZZZ leaves a lot to be desired in the early game which can be tweaked. It seems to have the same issues HI3 had on release, and itll probably get better with due time, but at least in its current iteration, the introduction is pretty good, could be better paced.
updated migame thoughts: the game's starting to grow on me and the combat is pretty fun for a casual game. I think if you're just looking for a gacha game to cruise thru (similar to HSR), this could be it. Even the hardest mechanics in this game are pretty easy compared to WuWa, and that's not a bad thing. I think hoyoverse is better off advertising this game as a slice of life game than the combat game they've been advertising it as, because I think I would've enjoyed this game more initially if I knew what I was getting into. I'd like to make it clear though that I still think the introduction could be better. I wouldn't have played this game until this point if it weren't for the fact that I made a promise that I'd review this game once I hit the endgame. BUT, the combat is pleasantly a lot better now.
@@BaoPham2 I too have reached the same assessment, it's marketed as something it's not cut out to be, the game is preety good as a casual game
This is just my opinion but I love how casual the game feels. I’ve dabbled in HI3 every now and then, but I always get burnt out at the end of it because of how much there is to do on a weekly basis. I think your opinion is perfectly valid since you are a HI3 veteran. However, I also think it’s okay for the game to be dumbed down in complexity. When games become super complex, it just may not be as fun anymore.
@@CommadoNoob yeah thats completely understandable! I think there exists a fanbase for this game, and its probably on the opposite end of a lot of the hardcore honkai impact players lol
I totally agree with you, the parry and dodge in this game is amazing and really fun to play with but to compare it with Hi3rd I still see that Hi3rd still have that something that I enjoy more. The only thing that I don't like since we get into the part 2 is how they changed the gacha mechanic in hi3rd or if not then I'm just having the worst of all (80 roll for Thelema, 70 roll for her full stigma and weap, failed to get senadina, Lantern and right now still trying to get Lil Que 😥 )
@@huylun8939 i hit hard pity for que and im 42 pulls in for her weapon and still dont have… ive already spent $22 this patch
ZZZ makes me think back to the release of Star Rail. I was so in the market for a good turned based game and I really wanted to like it but the super stripped down game design made me feel like ti wouldn't last. Now, just over a year in, I really like Star Rail and I feel like the game manages to have engaging combat with turns that consist of choosing basic or skill.
For ZZZ, I've personally only had a good time so far playing. It's definitely getting carried by presentation but I'm hopeful that more engaging combat will come as we get more characters and enemies to fight. Hoyo's track record seems to support this(maybe not genshin). Those first couple characters you get stuck playing at the start of HI3 are super basic as well after all.
My personal biggest worry with ZZZ is the character faction/element match system. The restriction could be a good way to allow more characters to occupy specific niches, but it was only after my third S rank that I could actually make a 3/3 functional team that wasn't just the starting cast. I'm worried about what this could make the new player experience look like after a year or so.
Yeah there's a chance that the release of characters could make the game more engaging, but at least with its current roster, it feels pretty bare bones. I'm glad you've enjoyed the game so far
I honestly dont mind the TV system. I do however want it to have some fixings, like being able to zoom out more, advance mode not skipping dialogue voice lines(optional). In the long run, make the tv system short enough that exploration in the area itself would be more appreciated.
@@OfficialNeonScratch the TV mode wouldn't be that bad if it weren't for the fact that some quests are like exclusively tv mode. I think most people downloaded zzz for the combat, and that goes for me too
For the people who dislike TV sequence, I have just one question, are you a story skipper? Because I can totally see from your perspective if you skip story, then you won't understand why you do the things you do in TV mode, like pushing bombs and chasing a train. In this day and age, a lot of people don't care about the story of a game, they just want a skip button and go ham in action right away.
Since you asked the question: No, I'm not a story skipper. I love good stories in video games. But I don't see the TV system as a good way to tell a story because of how disconnected it is from the actual meat of the game. It's like when Developers back in the 2010's had a hard-on for adding stealth sections in their combat games. They were almost never good because it pulled you away from what the game is actually good at. Another example from a story-telling perspective is mandatory walking scenes replacing cutscenes. You're technically playing the game but its at the cost of just having a good and engaging cutscene.
I'm a big story guy. I can only play a game if it has good story. its also the only reason I still play genshin, because I don't enjoy the gameplay or exploration of genshin anymore, but I think the story is fire. The TV mode does nothing for the story for me.
@@liteyearsx Just to see if I got this right. If the game becomes fighting, fighting, then 2 characters stands there and talking, talking, back to fighting and more fighting, then again, 2 characters stand there talking and talking with some minor hand movement. Would that be more interesting than watching a moving block in TV mode?
I mean, that's basically what Genshin and Wuthering Wave play out most of their conversations outside of an animated cutscene. Sorry for bringing up those games but I felt they are more easily referenced by many.
2 characters talking in this game is more than just minor hand movement. They are very animated and lively, so you cant compare 2 characters talking in this game to 2 characters talking in genshin and wuwa. Second, I'm not saying that 2 characters talking to each other is better than the TV gameplay (but imo it lowk is), but there's better ways to present the narrative without having to use this shit TV gameplay. Do i know what's a better way? No, but that's not my job either. Hoyoverse surely couldve came up with something better than this.
@@nekochen Since this is tagged to me I'll answer this, but that isn't my point at all. My point is the TV system doesn't help me be engaged in the story and serves more as a distraction, and there are better ways that it could have been done.
Off the dome: A good immersive cutscene is better than the TV system. Having bigger fight areas and having dialogue during combat is better. Having specialized missions like "carry the bomb to the train while fighting off enemies" would be better.
Hoyoverse realized that 90%+ of their fanbase has like ZERO skill when it comes to combat (easy to see when most of them can't even clear Spiral Abyss after 4 years . . . or find the new endgame mode "hard" when it's even easier).
So that's only logic that they made ZZZ dull as F and easy as F
I'm with you on that : this game won't hook me for weeks, I'm pretty sure I'll stop playing in a day or two, too dull when you come from HI3 part 2 character's kits / air combos / etc
@@mercurexi yeah i really dont understand why the combat of this game removed so many mechanics that HI3 had
@@BaoPham2 Because they aim at Genshin players, that can't clear Abyss in 4 years . . .
I was also expecting something DMC-like, more akin to APHO3 but I’m actually kinda enjoying the combat.
The combat is deeper than my initial thought but I still think it can stand to be more complex. Agreed on the cooldowns.
The vibes in this game though, is simply immaculate.
I think at the moment I enjoy it more than Impact. As someone else put it, the combat feels more reactionary. I feel like the enemies’ actions factor more on my decision-making than 3rd where it feels like I’m just going through the motions of a rotation.
I was looking exactly for this video, a honkai impact 3rd player's perspective. I didnt feel like downloading zzz but i have so much fun with HI3 part 2 (in redlotus tho, not anything crazy)
Thanks for your insight!
Thanks for watching!
Regarding complains of the ult/special charges, i think it's bad on purpose because that's the lowest rate it can be, you'll notice that as you level up alot, Crit % and Crit DMG start to become excessively higher, and ult charges (decibels bonuses) is something you can actually increase with either the W-Engine or the 6 Disk slots at lv 26.
Now, regarding the fact there's only 1 ult usable and not 3 ult in a row, i think ultimately it's a "ok" move to make "meta" stuff more specific and difficult, because if you really wanted the most optimal team possible, you'd need 1 character with maximum ult stats increase, 1 being the startup (debuffer), and 1 DPS that is only applicable when buff is on.
Overall, your options expands at lv26, but it is as you said, its a arcade type (casual) that isn't meant to be tryharded.
i picked up ZZZ and not any other gachas simply cause it looks more "pocket" where transitioning to my PC > Phone for 15 min is fast.
@@kenamii thank you for pointing these things out! I havent gotten to that stage of the game yet, but i think that ultimately hoyoverse needs to do a better job at optimizing the early game if thats the case, because imo (and many others), the early game feels like one huge 10 hour tutorial
Would be great to see a video from you, adressing some of the issues with the combat and how you would try to fix it besides having just more ults or ex recharge
Maybe I might, I have a lot of thoughts on the combat considering how I've seen honkai impact's combat went from something similar to this to something a lot more complex
It might not be totally fair to judge the energy/skill mechanics based on early game due to the presence of energy recharge as a stat, which you really aren't going to get any appreciable amount of until inter-knot level 40+. I do agree that at the current moment, there's not a lot of skill usage and a lot of left clicking (on the one hand, that really depends on the character, on the other hand, as an example, I'm not sure Grace's left-click/right-click alternate spam is much better than left click spam a lot of other characters end up with), but energy recharge is one of those things that really tightens up a lot of rotational ability.
(Although that said, it's always hard to judge how "deep" any combat is in the early game; I said this of WuWa as well).
Yes that's why this is an early review, and I will do an end game review. The issue is that a game should try to draw you in, and the excuse "the game gets better after x hours" is not valid to me, because I think a game should HAVE To draw you in. I shouldn't be playing this game with the expectation of having fun after x hours, I should be having fun at the start. Energy recharge shouldn't be a needed stat to make the combat more interactive in the early game
@@BaoPham2I absolutely agree with you. The “its fun after x hours” cope already happened in other game (diablo 4 cough cough*) it shouldn’t be like this
Personally it felt like zzz introducing the mechanic too slow and soft, probably to get more casuals and newcomer of the genre to play. But it is very boring to play if you are a average gamers.
Anyway As a player that reached lv 36 the boss fight is actually fun especially the ballet sister. A peek into what this game could be
For the story I completely agree with you in terms of setting not being established. Unfortunately Hoyo has a track record for dropping whack jargon or needing to research outside of the game to understand the basis of the story, HI3 was like that in the first parts hence why I disliked the medium that HI3's story was presented, Genshin's character stories are locked behind crucial events that will most likely never rerun, so far HSR does it really well.
As for the combat, I 100% agree with you with the combat feeling mundane. HOWEVER the way I see ZZZ, is that Hoyo is trying to experiment with the old HI3 combat and refine it. So far they refined the movement mechanics and fluidity but haven't fully refined the combat itself. I definitely do see the game being challenging even in its current state as long as they make more difficult bosses with unique movesets. ZZZ feels too "limiting" for a combat game and honestly feels like a mindless button mash.
So far Hoyo has 2 "main" games which are HI3 and Genshin then they have 2 "casual" games which are ZZZ and HSR. The spectrum for whether a game is casual or not is hard to define but Genshin is definitely in the middle of those 2 as majority of the playerbase are those who haven't touched nor played as much games/gachas. HSR is leaning on the casual side however still offers difficult and strategic combat for the more "hardcore" players. ZZZ is completely casual and the complete opposite against HI3. HI3 is overwhelming for a new player whereas ZZZ settles the new player in quite easily.
That being said, I still enjoy the game very much and will most likely keep it in my gacha game library until Endfield comes out
I think this is an interesting theory, hopefully they improve upon the combat and not make it locked behind character mechanics.
Well my only option to play WuWa right now is on mobile, where it quite honestly plays like hot ass. Not a jab at the game itself, just at the platform itself and how scuffed action games are on it. ZZZ is scratching that itch at least until Kuro brings out a console version, so i think im being kinder to it than i otherwise would be.
thats fair. Wuwa is so badly optimized even for PC, but even more so phones. I have the newest android chip (snapdragon 8 gen 3) and I got my phone in February of this year and I still can only run WuWa at like 40 fps
I love your videos
@@walterl2052 no u dont
@@BaoPham2 He's a fake fan. I'm a real fan.
i never doubted you squidab, dont worry
after play pgr and part 2..i just cant click with ZZZ's combat..the parrying is satisfying..but it just..something missing..i dont know how to explained it..the speed? intensity?
@@lostdrink9491 i think variation. The combat doesnt get much different unless u unlock new characters, and even then, its still fundamentally very similar between characters
@@BaoPham2 yes and also the lack of variation of enemy attack. They could made some un parry able so maybe dodge could be utilized more, or maybe shorten parry timing when certain attack occur, Because right now people just use their parry as easy get away.
@@yeeywthere is literally the red light attack which cant be parried so you have dodge counter it
i had quit HI3 after maintaining Redlotus for about a year as f2p which burnt me out and part 2 wasent hitting right so i quit. ZZZ came out and i put about 12 hours into it, after claiming its a combat focused game the way they designed combat is flawed tbh. There's so many limiting factors, the break and qte mechanics are unique but flawed, the only "theory crafting" you need to do is put in the 3 characters of choice and because of how the breaking and qte mechanic works and how slow you gain ultimate and the fact that only one unit can use that ultimate, the game just plays itself. 90% of the time its the exact same rotation forced down my throat by forced qte. the combat just feels very scuffed and just much much worse then hi3
That's exactly how I feel too. I was really looking forward to this game as a modern refresh of HI3 but it feels like they just made the combat of HI3 worse, and added an admittedly cool gimmick with the new QTE system, but made everything else slower. I think I could see casual players really liking this combat system, and one of my friends like that it's not flashy and more chill, but it's just not for me.
@@BaoPham2 i feel like we might be jumping the the gun a bit fast. early HI3 gameplay is pretty mid as well i feel lol. there probably isn't much we could do back when our S Rank was valks like DB, Blood Rose, etc. weapon skills were also probably quite bad back then, though i really don't remember.
as for Ults, i agree having only 1 feels bad :(
yeah you right, its probably just having the same pains as HI3 on release
I don't want this to sound like and accusation but it kinda annoys me that you talk about the combat being spam left click when 2 of the charcters you use have unique autos, Lycaons being charged and Soldier 11 having timing based autos, I'm not saying your wrong about this I do Agree you do spend alot of time just autoing. If you honestly were unaware fair enough but it taints my view of this video slightly.
i mean you can literally see me timing my autos on soldier 11 in the video. I'm very aware of the differences in gameplay between these characters but the fact is that it doesn't feel like im doing much to break the monotony of mostly basic attacking.
@@BaoPham2 And that's a fair opinion to Have it just feels bias to say that the game has non of these mechanics, when you are just simply not fully using them.
Maybe its because I mainly use ellen who has to mix up with dash attacks but I so far haven't felt the Gameplay was monotonous because I had options other then spamming left click.
edit: If you had said that I probably wouldn't have had an issue at all but it just annoyed me that you completely ignored it.
@@Septella but I'm literally using the mechanics that are given to me? If they lock fun behind Ellen, how does that make the game as a whole good? The game as a whole should be good no matter what characters you have. I'm trying to the utmost of my ability to use soldier 11's timed attacks as well as Lycaon's charged attacks. There's just not enough mechanics to make this game a true "combat" game. Have you played DMC or HI3? Those are true combat games. The reason I ignored it is because those mechanics are character locked, and those mechanics (afaik) are locked behind Ellen, soldier 11, and maybe Ben's parry. Charged attack is not a notable enough mechanic that should be mentioned. Infact, every character should have a charged attack. That's literally a standard in HI3, WuWa, Genshin, why not this game?
here's my point, how are you gonna market this a combat game and have less combat mechanics than WuWa or genshin impact? It's fine if you enjoy the combat, but the aforementioned mechanics you mentioned are character locked, and now that I've unlocked Ellen, yes the game's more fun, but the game's enjoyabiliy shouldn't increase by like 200% because I got the new gacha character. That just makes the game paywalled, and character unique mechanics does not contribute to the universal combat system which is what I'm more concerned with. If you're annoyed with me ignoring character specific mechanics, I'm sorry, but I don't think it's fair to lock a majority of the game's fun behind the newest banner character. I also don't think it makes sense to mention character specific mechanics when imo, it doesn't improve the game's universal combat system, and it seems like ellen is really the only one that has a kit that deviates a significant amount from the combat that everyone else has to work with. And the biggest reason I don't mention this is because it doesn't change the gameplay much for me. This is my own review and my own experience, and at least soldier 11's special timed attacks or Lycaon's charged attack doesn't change the universal flaws of the combat system enough for me to mention it. Character specific mechanics are just not worth mentioning cause they're just an extension to left click gameplay
@@BaoPham2 I'm probs not going to respond more after this because I think we simply just do not agree.
First Yes I did play hi3rd for about 5~6 ish months I can't remember exactly but I started around Hof and I know I got silverwing before I quit. (I quit because bluestacks is an ass, and while I did redownload it when 7.1 came about the Ui gave me a headache and I gave up)
Second this might be petty but in the whole video I didn't see you use a Lycaon Charge attack a single time ('to the Utmost of my ability') the reason I assumed you didn't know soldiers mech was because honestly when I first played her I thought it was just random unless you had her exskill like hsr's sushang.
And I do agree with you when the enemy is recovering from stun and after you have used most of your burst you do just basic attack alot and most characters have nothing interesting to do with their basics, I just feel like we have had different experiences because at least against large enemies i mentally separate the fights into 2 sections the parry and regen energy stage and the stunned burst stage and in neither of these do i feel like you primarily auto, idm man maybe I'm just wrong about this.
Like I went and played ellen intentionally not using her dash attacks and I don't feel like the gameplay devolves into just auto spamming.
Maybe I'm a simple person and like the loud ding of the parry.
@@Septella you're right that I wasnt playing correctly in the video, and I decided to invest a few hours into learning the core of the combat, and I think I still stand by my point that the combat is still not complex enough (although there is more to the combat than I initially said). We can agree to disagree, and I think I've found a middle ground where I've realized there's more to this game that can't be found within the first 8 hours or so, but thank you for your comments. I think comments like yours have helped me research deeper into the combat. I stand by my review that this is meant more for casuals than HI3 but I could maybe see myself enjoying it at least in the late game
You can chain ultimates in this game
What do you mean? You can only use one ultimate once you hit 3k points
@@BaoPham2 oh you mean the cutscene parts. Since the chain attack animations are their ultimate animations i thought you meant that.
This is a game you play for a few hours and then get off. Making this your main game is not gonna go well
Meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow
So real and based
Nicole 😍
@@korsplat ellen got the suction mouth tho
@@BaoPham2 I thought she had teeth made for gripping and tearing as opposed to suction... I ain't sticking my meat in there bro
ur so cringe
Well, Marisa Honkai have better opinion regarding ZZZ than you.
And since Marisa Honkai already playing Honkai since 2019, I will more trust him than you.
It's his opinion why are u mad even Marisa hasn't even said his opinion he just playing.
@@sayidash1583 by that logic, since I've been playing honkai impact since 2018, you should trust me more.
Anyways yeah it's my own opinion, why are you weighing mine vs. his?
Real question is, did you even clear Hollow Zero and Shinyu?
What server do you play Hi3 on?
1. No, but that shouldn't matter. A game should be fun from the start. I shouldn't have to put in x hours to finally start enjoying the game. Also this is an early review
2. NA and I do have an alt on SEA
@@BaoPham2 Considering genshin 1.0 was a snooze and yapfest of a story and hi3 is a gigantic yapfest until chapter 8.... and also looking at WuWas story being trash UNTIL jiyans chapter, then it picks up. ZZZ is just establishing its world like all other games did. Its slow at first, yes, but it picks up quickly in chapter 2, especially past the midway point and just gets more intruiging from there. But thats purely subjective, its slow at start, I agree.
Your combat take is throwing me off tho, your skills take too long to recharge? I am throwing out EX skills left and right in abundance and dont even have enough time to fully get rid of my energy. Ultimates are easily 3 times (would be more of i didn't clear combat already at that point). Its about as frequent as in Honkai impact, only difference is that you cant compare a weapon skill with an EX skill. EX skill could be compared more to a burst mode attack than a weapon skill.
The difficulty of the story is toned down in normal mode and ramps up in hardmode, real combat is later on in guiding missions, area purge, hollow zero, shiyu, notorious hunts. THIS is where you have to be on your toes.
Sidenote: The reason you have no energy recharge is that, in the small pieces of gameplay you show, you are fucking up any semblence of rotations. Not using Lucys Cheer on buff for soldier 11. Not using Lucys Ult to regain 30 energy (EX Skills take too long to charge? Maybe thats why) for Soldier 11. Not using Nekos innate buff by playing hyper agressive with dodge counters into EX skills. Not using Nicoles forced QTE trigger nekomatas switch in skill. You have alot to learn about the combat and inputs. Half your shit is just casul mode without any resemblence of having read the skills.
Nicoles Gathering ether field reduces enemy defense, nekos switch in skill has enough AOE to cover the entire bubble, chaining stun gauges of multiple opponents to force trigger multiple chain attacks etc.
Also you can switch cancel every single animation in this game, the question just is, do you want to? EX Skills are fully invulnerable, so you can dodge attacks with them and easily apply more dmg.
I'm not saying your entire opinion is wrong, until the middle of chapter 2, you can autopilot the game for real, but if you notice how deep every characters abilities and interactions go, there is alot to uncover.
When I made my take on combat, I asked around a lot of people (probably around 15 people) and they all had the same issue with CD's being too long. If you think the current CD's are you throwing out skills, then I think we just have a different perception of time. But I've never seen anyone say the CD's are fast, and I havent seen anyone "throwing out skills left and right".
As for the animation cancelling and stuff you're talking about, you're right that I wasn't knowledgable enough to do everything you're saying, but now that I've spent time to learn more about the combat (I'm currently using an ellen team) and have about an additional 6 hours on the game from this video, I still maintain my stance that this game is not complex enough. Maybe I'm just spoiled because I love DMC and HI3, but this is not a combat game. The peak combat of this game is just quick time events. I took your suggestions and tried to learn everything, I've watched other ppl from CBT play end game, and it's just not appealing to me. It's not as easy as I initially made it out to be and I apologize, but I still stand by the fact that it is not nearly on the same level as DMC or HI3, which is what I'd expect from a game that's advertised to be a combat game.
You're not wrong that I'm doing everything wrong in this video, but even after I spent a few hours learning the combat, I still stand by these 2 points.
1. It shouldn't take 10 hours+ of play time to get energy recharge to rechage my skills faster. If skills feel slow in the beginning, that's a flawed early game that should be tweaked to be more digestible.
2. This is not a combat game if you compare it to DMC and HI3
3. You're right that my initial impression of combat is very shallow, but that's just how first impressions are. I don't think other people who played the first 8 hours of this game were nearly as knowledgeable either, but I bear a different responsibility since I made a video on it so that's on me. However, I still stand by my stance that this game's mechanics are just not deep enough for a combat game, and there's much more character specific mechanics that go deeper in games like DMC or HI3. But I'd like to apologize for my initial shallow review of the combat, but tbf, its also a first impression and there's a reason I made a promise to play to the end game so that I could give an updated review. Everything you say here will be addressed in a few weeks once I'm at the end game. There's a lot more I wanna say since the more I play this game, the more I realize it has the same flaws as HI3 on release, but I think I'd just be yapping at you at this point so I'll reserve those thoughts unless you really wanna hear them.
Combat in this game is PEAK example of style over substance. As a big dmc fan etc who’s been looking forward to this game for years…. Yeah that was the most disappointing part by far
as a DMC fan myself (ive played all of em except 2), i was also a little bit disheartened.
the game looks good but the actual gameplay is mid
Visually, the game is so good and animated, really wish we saw this same level of "animatedness" in other gacha games lol
The game explain the terms like carrots, etc. The problem is more likely you are a skipper. The problem is on your side.
I'm a big story reader. I'm just giving example of jargon dropping. Even if they explain it, it's still jargon dropping (not to mention they kinda dont explain it well). The entire reason I still play genshin is because of the story because I think the gameplay and exploration have lost its charm on me, I am not a story skipper. If I was, I wouldn't have made a segment on the story alone in this video.
With the current options in Gacha, it’s a bad game
@@Roihclem871 thats a big part of it for me. I cant rate this game holistically because youre sacrificing time on other potential games by playing this one so i need to constantly compare it to other games