Eagle & Orbital Stratagems Tier List in Helldivers 2
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- Опубліковано 27 чер 2024
- Eagle & Orbital Stratagems Tier List in Helldivers 2
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0:00 vs Bugs
3:33 ohdo
3:49 vs Bugs
9:38 why no a tier
9:57 changes
10:13 vs Bots
15:06 changes
16:11 Doughjo Coin
16:28 Reality
16:46 Modifier effects - Ігри
Still not sure why they would make titans immune to orbital EMS. That was an awful patch note.
Balance and skill issue I suppose
they only got effected if you used stun nade into ems strike. ems strike should effect all enemies outside of boos units (hive lord and whatever is above factory striders)
@@shepherdlavellen3301Skill issue of the balancing team.
Can't properly balance the game if their life was dependent on it. 😂
Made the CEO step down to do that shit himself.
@@SuperCatacata I don't think CEO is directly responsible for that but he did hire a dude who ruined the balance of another game to do the balance
I could understand them making them immune to the stun grenade, (I guess not really) but the whole freaking orbital strike of stun grenade, and it doesn't work with bile titans, ridiculous
Eagle Airstrike not being S or at least A tier for the bugs is very surprising to me. It can also destroy shrieker nests and spore spewers just like the 500kg but instead of using it for bile titans you use it for everything else. It kills every single bug except titans when in lands. I always rock both the 500kg and the Airstrike.
100% the best stratagem for bugs. Takes out nests where many others don't too and the sheer number of uses makes it my go to pick.
Napalm airstrike is just a better Airstrike but even that doesn't feel that good because there's so many bugs
I feel like it's good on paper but kind of gets muscled out because of the 4 stratagem limit in practice. If I already have good anti-structure and anti-titan utility from the 500kg, then I'd rather bring something more specialized towards chaff clearing in the other slot, like napalm or gas.
It would definitely be an easy flexible utility extension pick if I had 5 slots, though.
You can still kill bile titans with it if you hit them with 2 of the bombs. It's S tier in my own list.
A tier at least. It's the statagem pocket knife. Good against everything, but great against nothing. It is by far and away my most picked strat.
500kg is only a top pick because our options to take out Bile Titans quickly are somewhere between trash and non-existent. It feels like a wasted slot when bile titans aren't around. I really hope bile titans get their armor lowered or we get more tools comparable to the 500kg for taking them down so dealing with them doesn't feel so stagnant. It's absolutely bonkers that most people run 2 stratagems JUST because of Bile Titans, which is usually 500kg, an anti-tank support, or MAYBE Orbital Laser or Railcanon Strike.
same, helldive difficulty sucks because of that. I have to take the same gear over and over just to deal with bile titans.
I agree because when you don't bring the good options with you...well...have fun running the time that a mate actually can help you.
This thing's armor needs to be nerfed.
Even then the fckin 500 bugs out sometimes and does ZERO damage to a titan, absolute cancer
This particular piece of design is also the only reason why the railcannon isn't relegated to the absolute trash garbage tier.
It has an insane cooldown for something that only hits one enemy. Everything that it can kill in one hit can also be one-shot by something else way more cost-effectively. It won't actually one-shot a titan unless all the stars align and it hits the head. To add insult to injury, it doesn't even have any reliable utility use or other flexibility potential.
But it's the _only_ thing in the game that will have a guaranteed consistent effect on a titan, no matter how small, so it sees play.
Don't agree.
1 rocket pod to break the armour and a few grenades. Dead. Rocket pod into Grenade Pistol. Dead. Rail Cannon to break armour into nades /plasma shotgun. Dead. Heck - break armour and use the Flamethrower!
Ever tried using the Eagle Airstrike side on from the front? You can sometimes get a 1 hit kill that way as well or cripple it enough that a few further med pen shots into the flesh is a kill.
Precision Strik as well - 1HK.
500KG is good for taking them down but you have a lot of other options which takes them down in good order without spending 10 minutes running around.
What smart youtube strategy. Make some tierlists right before a big patch in case anything changes, so that I can remake the same tierlists after the patch for double the content. Genius.
Tbf its always going to be a good strat for a live service game
I think he also noticed devs talking about reddit/youtube videos being discussed at lunchtime by devs and decided to make extra before the full release of the patches in hope of (proper) changes. This one is released a bit late tho.
Yeah can't wait for another dogshit tier list for this guy. It's always interesting seeing his opinion on things
this whole tierlist is "smoked beyond belief" tbh, probably so that he can make another video bitching about people who pointed out the how wrong it is
You're super right about the -1 strat crunching down build diversity. It's obvious, but when you have less to bring than normal you are incentivized to bring the best you have available. Definitely everyone I know's least favorite modifier.
This sh*t needs to go.
It just ruins the fun and makes you avoid missions with it.
Absolutely hate it, slots are tight enough as it is with the high cooldowns on most of them.
It's worse than the increased 50% call-in time. Me and my mates lower the diff to tier 7 when playing bots just so we can have fun with 4 strats.
Dumb ass modifier all round, and it's always in play now.
It's such a lazy, arbitrary way to make the game more difficult. I'd love to see them get more creative with the modifiers, no one likes them
I vaguely remember it sometimes being a Thing in the first game too, but it never felt like a problem in the first game honestly. But in HD2 cus we dont HAVE alot of the things we had in the first game, it IS a problem till those things get released.... if they ever get released.
Dude, eagle airstrike is S tier vs bugs. clears bug holes and structures, kills chargers. destroys little hordes. has 3 charges.
Airstrike is S tier against spewers. Chargers, and chaffs, not so much. The aiming is not consistent, so it's justified as a low tier.
@@GooiYingChyi Well, for me its S tier.
@@GooiYingChyi did you just say its not good against chaff??? Brother, I can not tell you the amount of times I have gotten 30-50 kills with one airstrike and it will kill titans. I have done it plenty of times with 1 or 2 airstrikes. Also the aiming is always consistent???? It always comes from the same direction and lands the same way every time. The only thing I can agree with anything you said is yes, it sucks against chargers but still more than likely will break its leg for you to just shoot it after. Not to mention how easy it is to take out an entire nest with 1 or 2 strikes. Airstrike might not be S but it sure as hell is high A
@@NeowMeowyeah I think a tier is fair, a low cooldown for a reliable stratagem
I never run it against bugs
I do not understand why the strafe run has less charges that the cluster strike, giving us at least 5-6 charges + little bit of splash damage would be SPLENDID
Honestly I feel like the thing shouldn’t even have charges, just give it a ten/fifteen second cooldown. Even with that I doubt I’d take it but still.
It has shit AP as well. 3??? Its the same as the lib pene??
@@CrazyLikeUhFox That is a genuinely brilliant take! Having the "downside" be a longer return per strafe.
If you used it with other airstrikes, the strafing run would temporarily lock you out of using the bombs AND you'd have to manually rearm the bombs (as the strafing would always be active) - I guess you could give it 10 charges or something, just to put a mild limit on it (not that it needs it, but I'm sure the devs would lol)
The strafe isn't terrible. I really enjoy that it comes in over your shoulder. That makes it easy to hit with (against bugs, as they're gunning for you), but it only really deals with the smaller guys, so is basically just an extension to your primary
Facts I’ve been saying it needs depleted uranium rounds to mulch tanks, at least stripping heavies of their armor
@@MaximusTheGreat509Well it can hurt heavy targets now so uh…someone listened brother
If I had a dollar for everytime a teammate killed me with a eagle cluster bomb I’d be a damn millionaire
yuuup
I'd like to think I eventually got good with it and don't kill myself or my team anymore
They do just enough damage to kill the player but not the enemies
@@salt_factory7566 wdym, its great against chaff
Those are a straight-up war crime which should be banned.
5 clusters on a 2 minute cooldown is busted for me.
The airstrike counts are really all over the place when you think about it.
In what universe does it make sense that the strafing run has the same number of uses as the clussy?
Why does the smoke strike have the same number of uses as the airstrike and napalm?
busted for diff 4 sure
@@BackwardsPancake strafing run should have unlimited uses, change my mind, you can't, it sucks so bad it really needs a buff
@@jooot_6850 it's not that bad the strafe it just too narrow and too long, enemies spread out in a concave so having a thin line of projectiles streak right between most of the enemies while having less uses than the cluster is idiotic. hell i'd have an upgrade for it that added 2 under-wing-pods so it's 3 times wider, at that point it would be pretty nice close-air-support vs swarms (in a way the 50kg can't because of it's baby-boom)
I like the precision strike, but it should have its cooldown and call in time reduced. It can one shot biles and shrieker nests, but it takes alot of messing with to use effectively.
edit: PATCH 1.000.400. the buffed both the cooldown and call in time. They listened thank GOD.
its fine in the time, just needs its scatter on the orbital scatter modifier significantly reduced because its unusuable like that
@@declicitous1763 I still dissagree. The ease of use should be better.
All single shot cannons need to be able to stack to 2 charges. You start with 1 charge that is building a second when you start.
Agreed, although like all precise orbitals, orbital scatter modifier makes it too unreliable over the 500kg. It does have superior AoE! Like what Odog said, having multiple charges (that either recharge separately or the whole stratagem recharges like the eagles) would be good.
Honestly, the mine stratagems DESPERATELY need that or a cooldown decrease to be effective... and I love making minefields and fucking with teammates lol
Honestly the storage of an extra orbital attack is really creative. Havent heard of that one before.
Orbital laser is clearly S-tier against bots imo, you can literally throw it in a base and run away, about half a minute later the base is gone.
I think A tier is reasonable. If it gets stuck on a Strider then the laser is screwed and you only get 3 a mission.
You only get 3 total though. 380mm doesn't have a limit.
I mean its real value against bunkers. Throw it down and the bunker is just melted or maybe big bases, but i only really bring it against the bunker missions.
the 3 uses and 5 min cooldown is a killer.
especially when it's not that damaging versus simply throwing any other stratagem into that same situation.
5 mins is 9 strikes, 2+ 380s, 15 clusters, 6 500kg and that's disregarding the partial-reloads. Hell the AC turret can do more damage in the same amount of time if properly-supported (not vs bots given they love to 1-tap them) and that's a 3 min cooldown with unlimited re-uses.
Bunker missions sure, but otherwise you'll almost always get more value from the 380 barrage
Oh ok, alright, i was about to comment how the evaluation on the Terminid Eagle Strike was super weird, considering its a multi charge realiable tool which destroys every terminid objective and kills every enemy in the faction minus Titan and Shrieker, seeing it rated as mid C by a veteran was mildly shocking Last second amendments makes total sense 👍
You can kill titans with the airstrike. I have done it plenty.
@@NeowMeow Has to be a very specific angle. You shouldn't be running them for Titans, you'll get more value from the 500kg
@@RepublicofODLUM Taking them FOR titans and "having the ABILITY to use them on titans" are two different things.
That just elevates the regular airstrikes even further. (ie, they should be close to if not IN S-tier)
@@MrVelociraptor75 exactly.
@@MrVelociraptor75 You'll get more value from napalm and 500kg. There's no reason to bring airstrike for bugs imo.
The glow up of the 380 barage. From garbage tier to S tier.
I wonder why shouldn't it be smoke barrage instead of smoke strike, it will be a lot more useful and more resemble to how smoke artilery use irl.
The Barrage and Eagle Smoke do work a bit differently. The Barrage tends to Surround you with 4 shells of smoke which are QUICK BIG as well. Vs the Eagle smoke bomb drop which forms a Line of Smoke clouds. Personally prefer the Barrage myself.
Bot Rocket pods are B tier for sure, they one shot tanks, fabs, and can kill tank turrets.
I'd even vote A tier if they didn't focus Scout Striders so often
@@loganberkheimer1857 That knowledge lowers them to dregs-tier for me then hahaha
Same reason I don't take the railcannon. I swear it's only hit the target I actually wanted once
@@MrVelociraptor75i really wish they add specific targeting to those types of strats, simply pin the target you want to hit before the strat is shot down
@@aquamayne8168 That would be really nice. Arm, throw beacon, point your finger guns and BANG!
Napalm A-tier for bugs.
500kg is fckin broken & does zero damage to titans sometimes. And it constantly hits rock formations and kills nothing, the drop angle is terrible
Get good
@@roboticrebel4092literally, lol.
500 kg is jank and has a huge vertical splash but no horizontal splash. So you have to time it so the edge of the bomb lands under the titan, or it walks over the bomb as it explodes. You can soften the titan, but destroying the bile sacks to ensure it dies to the bomb.
The direction of it is completely fixed, so if you cant hit bugs with it its your problem. The damage is, however, all over the place
@@convergence1point Yeah idk how big the vertical aoe is for the 500kg, but I do know that the horizontal aoe radius is 10 meters, which is honestly a lot smaller than people realize. But still the bomb has to be glitched or something, I've literally had moments where a titan survives TWO 500's when standing directly over them, AND I shot out the bile sacks afterward, and the fucker is STILL ALIVE
I disagree with the reg airstrike. It does everything. I've had decent luck even killing bile titans with it. It destroys objectives, hives, it can clear crowds in a pinch. Kills chargers. I pair it with 500kg and helldive had become a breeze for me.
Laser against bots feels like you dont have to play the game. You can throw it in almost any bot structure and it will kill it which basically makes destroy command bunkers free. It doesnt kill factory striders tho so maybe a tier is reasonable
Im almost lvl 100 and over 200 hours into this game, and Im over playing bots. The best way is to just not engage. Ive done a lot of lvl 9 missions with < 40 kills and its easy . They need to fix the ragdoll physics.
Most of these weaker statagems would be greatly improved if they added some sort of debuff, instead of competing for raw damage output. They are trying to get you to take either damage, or crowd control - it's not working well. If EMS strike also increased the damage of your primary weapons for 20 seconds, that'd be worth a second look. Smoke strike can prevent targets from calling for help - all sorts of creative choices they can add.
Or they could at least up the charges and/or reduce the cooldowns significantly.
@@BackwardsPancake yeah, but in the longevity of the game - planning for years of new content is going to get very tough if they don't start diversifying their approach now. What's the point of having 40 stratagems if they all basically do the same thing? How about having primaries debuff targets (since they don't do major damage) and soften them up for eagle and orbital strikes?
EMS would be fine if it actually worked in more scenarios. the mortar does work abet-unreliably, the orbital can be pinpointed but it's long cooldown and lack of use vs titans/ATAT simply let it down versus simply bringing a red-BOOM.
EMS would be fine of it stuned titans and had a slightly bigger radius. At least it would serve a purpose and be different than it's morter counterpart.
Precision Strike and 500kg can take out Jammers and Beacons so you don't need to call a Hellbomb on bots.
I would love to love Precision Strike, but Atmos mod pretty much ruins an already-average strategem :/
i mean the jammers already need you to run up to them for the minigame so may as well call in the hellbomb.
a shame that the gunship factories are so insanely resilient tho.
eh how do you even use strategems on jammers when they dont even activate when the beacon land...or do u mean after u turn off the jammer?
@@hippoaceAfter, yes.
Honestly Orbital Precision gives you so much utility with that small cooldown + damage
You can destroy anything with it accept the gunship factories, takes out almost any bit enemy except factory strider but it deals insane damage to it.
I always take it with me to the bot missions.
They should update the icon of Eagle Airstrike vs. Eagle Rocket Pods. They are too similar to get mixed up. Likewise with the laser cannon vs. Quasar (not a laser) cannon. I see folks incld myself bring the wrong strategem because they look too similar.
I've brought quasar instead of laser a few times. The name should just pop up when your cursor is over the strategem.
It is called reading.
Unironically a skill issue, it took me like 20 minutes to memorize where the icons are located on the stratagem list lmao
This is also true for the recoilless and EATs. Luckily I'm happy with either, but their symbols are close enough that I sometimes haven't noticed until I hit ready lol
So, lots of stuff I disagree with here on the bug side, and here's my small essay:
500kg: Its blast radius is way too small to do something meaningful enough, except shriekers and spore spewers. Not consistent enough for Titans from my experience, unless they are softened up first
Airburst Orbital & Gatling Barrage: Excellent at bug breaches, and I even prefer Gatling barrage- lasts longer (new ship module adds an extra burst) and is explosive, which means it eats through Spewers easily. Sure, it doesn't kill Chargers, yet they don't seem to show up a lot in breaches for me...
Cluster Bomb: View the scenario of your EMS strike, and imagine if you had the cluster. An easy 30+ kill in a single throw. With that being said...
Airstrike: Overall area's smaller than Cluster. Utility and pure power? A tier. It can kill Chargers, Spores, and if aimed right, even Bile Titans (though less consistently...). oh, and bug nests. boi the amount of nests I destroyed with a single airstrike.
Precision Airstrike: I do like to blow out the Titan's sacs, as I find the stomp much easier to deal with; Run under them in a straight line (with an optional dive) and they'll miss you by quite a lot. Then, direct precision on them, and they're dead.
anyway, FOR DEMOCRACY.
Half the time I try to run under a bile titan it stomps me with the back leg trying to turn around
Chargers who spawn from breach, get suppressed by gatling barrage from my observation....it soften up med bugs and kill the small spawn. I used to bring gas but ppl and myself then to walk into it too early....so i bring gatling barrage instead lol
Baiting titans with the 500kg is the most consistent way to kill them, I totally understand why it's S tier. It's my favorite thing to do because of how satisfying it is.
I love 380mm, and sometimes bring it with 120mm against bots and bugs. It's not for precision, it's for softening giant swarms from a distance and running away to do other stuff while it's going on.
I would use items in the Weenie Hut Jr. Combo Deluxe tier, but the small fries are a deal breaker. Arrowhhead pls Super Size! 🥺
You forgot that P-strike can extremely consistently take down Detector towers from a distance without being seen
The multiple revisions through the runtime make the lists a bit confusing. Caveats completely invalidating things is a bit heavy handed as well. Maybe a bit overcooked on this one.
Gas strike is very underrated, you can actually destroy detector towers if you place it right next to the building. Or if your a good throw you can chuck it right at the tower from below. I honestly have used the Gas Strike so much it has saved me many times. Quick recharge time and a very good tool to create choke points for your enemies. It's good against a pack of Scout striders if you throw it just right. I find it kills bots and bugs equally but it all comes down to just where it's thrown.
Yeah, the physical shell of the gas strike can kill a lot, just like how the 500kg often gets a kill on impact, and THEN explodes. Honestly it's probably about the same damage output. Personally I bring it on most missions, it'll kill everything short of a Hulk or Brood Commander if well placed. It takes a long time to kill devastators, but luckily they're slow, and the rocket devastators in particular stop moving to shoot which makes them even slower.
Love the new UI with the icon indicating how long you talk about each stratagem. Thanks for the vid, OhDough!
precision strike is nice because it can destroy objectives that usually require a hellbomb so imo it should be in low B on bugs, much easier to throw it at the dissidents than to babysit a hellbomb and see it destroyed by a random bug smacking it, also can be used as an anti-titan strategem, kills chargers, can make a hole in a horde and the cooldown isnt that long for how many things it can do
yes im a simp for it but there is no universe where it should be lower than the railcannon strike or laser on bugs
The unfortunate thing is that 500Kg also destroys objectives that needs an Hellbomb. I just dont get why precision strike exists sometimes. Also the modifier that makes it unprecise litteraly renders it useless.
It deserves better imho
@@alexandreparent5754 Precision strike is better than 500kg at clearing crowds which makes it a better "jack of all trades, master of none". Whether that is something you actually want in a stratagem is another story. It can be nice sometimes to have something that can handle anything if it's the only red strat you're bringing.
Yeah, I think it is so much lower because by the time it coolsdown, your Eagle 500KGs would be rearmed.
I think Doughs tier list already took account that fact that you need a backpack and/or support weapon, leaving only 2 offensive strategems to spare. If you're not like me who likes to run full anti-tank offensive (KG, OPS, Railcannon), then you really have to leave out OPS in favor of KG.
@@achillesa5894 the 500kg aoe is larger than it seems but seems to also suffer from masssive falloff to the point that only weak chaff (and pre-damaged enemies) dies at further distances
I will always stan for EMS strike. If you fuck up a patrol engagement and get a bug hole/bot drop, you can control 75% of the spawn and turn it into a shooting gallery, and it will usually be back up in time for the next potential spawn. Breathing room is at a premium in this game, and EMS buys it for cheap and in spades.
Bring stun grenades as well for the odd emergency charger/hulk that comes barreling in through it and you are king of control, and there's enough explosive primaries and secondaries that you can run that without losing the ability to destroy bases and nests.
The pods that the eagle smoke strike drops are able to break bot factories if you place it right, which puts it head and shoulders above everything else in its tier.
pretty much agree with the list, but eagle napalm should go to A and eagle airstrike should go into S vs the bugs, the airstrike is just way to good at killing everything the bugs have to throw at you, now it doesnt reliably one shot bile titans its great follow up if your primary bile titan killer doesnt kill it for whatever reason (ie the unreliability of the 500kg just not killing it for some reason as demonstrated in your own videos) and it will clear the chaff around it as well, it sheer versatility and lethality make it by far the best stratagem in the game
I used to like rocket pods as they can kill bile titans, but I've since learned how to make the 500kg work and have stopped equiping them ever since.
rockets have their uses but the 500 is just way easier to handle in most circumstances.
i like that the rockets track onto factories but they miss many heavies all too often.
See with the rail cannon it’s a quick and easy way to get rid of a hulk, tank, charger, or even a bile titan. Sure you can 500kg it but in some missions it takes the 500kg longer to come down and you need to time it or else it but with the rail cannon it comes down almost instantly.
Rocket pods are absolutely amazing, they can cook a lot of things on bots and bugs, it can oneshot chargers, hulks, tanks (not too sure but they most likely get really close) and is a nice stratagem to use if you have no other option to take out biles. Pretty much a slightly weaker orbital railcannon strike but so much more uses and a timer thats not nearly as punishing
Every time I see the 3 strategem modifier I just instalock Eagle Airstrike/500kg, Orbital laser, and Auto Cannon.
I get a LOT of use out of the orbital laser. It can deal with spread out bases, larger enemies, and it turns command bunker missions into Blitz missions.
Side note, I feel like 110 eagle pods would be a lot more useful if they could hit gunships. Would still be trash against bugs tho.
Strafing run could be cool if it targeted nearby gunships instead of the ground. Still needs more charges though.
110 pods would be GOAT if they'd hit every time. As it is now they miss more often than they hit.
The eagle strike is great against bugs. huge utility, can close small and medium nests from afar if you place it right, wide area, pretty nice damage, and it's predictable. if it could insta kill titans it's be TOO good. it's at least a B IMO. Great video!
My go-to against bots is Autocannon, Eagle, Eagle Cluster, and Orbital Rail. It can effectively deal with any threat I come across no prob. Having 3 eagles and 5 clusters is goated
eagle what?
@@meestur6210 eagle airstrike i am guessing. Very underrated by some.
@@jayp25 You mean underrated by nobody except for dough I guess lol they've literally come out and said that its the most used stratagem since release
Orbital laser is pretty handy when you need to extract and the landing zone is infested by a lot of stuff as it's fire and forget.
25 seconds of a tickle-beam to clear a landing zone? may as well throw both 500kg, 4-5 clusters or a supply-packs worth of grenades.
Cluster bomb is definitely A tier for bots. It can shut down bot drops and it even stuns enemies it doesn't kill too. Additionally, the bomb they all spawn from is the same bomb as an eagle air. So you can use it to close fabricators, take out tanks/tank turrets, and do decent damage to factory striders. Cluster bomb coupled with AMR is the way to go
yeah i thinh dough (and 90% of the community) is using the cluster too much like the 500kg and not enough like an eagle variant of a barrage.
throw them early, often and liberally at range and just watch the daisy--cutter do it's thing turning every item above-ground into a fine-paste. then follow-up with whatever AV/anti-building you need to deal with the 1-2 weakened stragglers.
380s and 120s are actually S tier in extermination missions because they cover the entire map, and the enemies are pretty much mathematically guaranteed to die faster than the players. They turn that mission type into a guaranteed win. They're also very fun to use on just about every mission type without exception (who doesn't love big booms?). They really aren't THAT strong in non-extermination missions, but they'd probably be A or B tier for blitz missions too as fire and forget base-killers (though they do sometimes randomly fail to kill things even when tossed together).
I think in a 4 stack, the ems strike is probably B for me, naybe A on defense. (assuming no scatter). Especially on defend missions. The ability to buy time for rockets, or scientists to run through enemies stacked at the shelter is a godsend.
On an unrelated note I love your vocabulary during these videos. I've unironically started using Chaf, Taco Tuesday and Wilbers when playing with my friends lol.
i personally like the walking more than the 380, you kind of have to throw it before the objective and since the strikes are left-right, left-right, it feels more predictable than the 380mm. I use it more on bot drops and if its a bot drop on a base then its even better. probably not as good as the 380 on a singular large base but it feels like i can use it in more than just that one situation.
You can clear bunkers and jammers very fast with walking barrage. However after that, it is completely useless and you end up wasting one strategem slot. 380 though, can help you with extraction bot drops and large hordes of big tanks and hulks.
@@GooiYingChyiWalking barrage also kills bunkers outside of their effective turret range, and can wipe out bases from very far away.
The other barrages hit evenly around the stratagem ball, the walking barrage goes 150 meters in one direction. This means you can throw the walking barrage in at the gates of a base instead of needing to drop it inside the base.
It's a very proactive stratagem - just throw it in the general direction of any base you see and get free base kills - the other two barrages needs the target to be within throwing distance, this one does not.
Big issue with the walking barrage is that it goes from closer to further away which makes it basically always makes it waste shells hitting stuff behind the area your trying to engage. It doesn't have the firepower to reliably take out the things in its bombardment path and it wastes so much firepower on nothing of value. Much rather use the EMS or even Gas vs bots than walking barrage as they are at least predictable in their impact on the fight.
I think running 500kg and precision strike at the same time can feel really good. 2 disconnected cooldowns is clutch if you are committed to anti tank.
double-strike is also nice the eagle doubles up for decent AoE and the precision simply lives up to it's name.
I can see why dough likes the gas but i find the precision is just more useful in environments that's not effing with the orbital call-ins (which is so rare as to be basically unheard of later on).
Extra call-in time? precision now takes 5-6 seconds to land (that's 2-3 stun grenades duration).
longer re-use? that's a 112 seconds per-use
inaccuracy? may as well not bring it as the round-deviation is larger than the explosive radius.
something interesting to note is that airburst strike can kill tanks. I don't know how reliable it is because I don't usually bring airburst to bots but it's worked the 2 times I've tried.
Yup - It's bloody great vs Bots imho. It even take care of Hulks. As long as you drop the burst slightly behind the Tank/Hulk so that the bursts hit the vents. Always gets the kill done.
so can the cluster, the radiators and fleshy bits are vulnerable to explosions so if the right bit of the boom lands in the right place almost everything can be killed by the "anti-swarm" stratagems.
int he airbursts case that's still a 2 min cooldown per use so that's directly competing with the 3 main eagles (strike/500/cluster) which have 3/2/5 uses on the same cooldown.
I feel like precision strike should be higher for bugs as it can take out bile titans in one shot fairly easily and I just don't like using two eagles at once due to the eagle rearm
Agreed. I think Dough is probably taking into account opportunity cost of bringing OPS, since KG already does everything OPS needs to do, there isn't much point having an inferior one.
Agree with most of your takes here, except for the Airburst vs Bots. I love it. It clears entire patrols - chaff, devies and Hulks. Love that thing. Definitely solid C+ tier in my opinion.
ever since i found out 500kg can blow up detector towers, and command bunkers (if laser is on cooldown), it's a mandatory pick for me on bots.
honestly, my main gripe with the placement of 500kg and P-strike against bots is that i dont know if detector towers are factored in.
one one hand i dont know the importance of taking them out, on the other, the strategems turn what is either a really deliberate stealth ambush or really bloody skirmish into a skee-ball contest.
i did see someone who managed to take out a sauron with a Hbomb from outside the fort on a livestream, but i dont know how hard that is either.
I think you underrated the 120mm vs bugs. It's great at destroying medium nests and pretty decent against Shrieker Nests and Spore Spewers. With the -dispersion upgrade, it's focused enough that you can also lock down an approach line when at an objective.
You definitely underrated the Cluster Strike against both factions. It kills all light and medium enemies in a large area while usually eliminating Hulks and Chargers.
Obital 380mm HE barrage (medium and heavy outpost delet command), Eagle Strike (awesome versatility) and Orbital precision Strike (Tank, Hulks, light outpost and Fabric strider killer) are a staples on my bot runs.
I find staffing run quite useful on maps where you just get hordes of hunter and other light units helps to get them of my back after they all just follow you, orbital p-strike is good but i don't want to wait and bait 1 hulk for 10 years until it actually lands on diff 9 with all of the "cool down" modifiers
OPS biggest issue against bots is that it does not seem to close down factories nearly as well as it closes bug holes. Fully agree on 500kg, it takes a bit to understand where to throw it, once you get that and the ship upgrades (minus AA defenses) it is one of the best. Laser can be ok, but mostly against med/high bug holes / bot bases, it is not really good against mobs due to the randomness factors. The 120 OS... just needs serious adjustments to make it even worth looking at; tighter area of effect and a major reduction in cooldown.
bro is upset that the walking barrage is walking :)))
Put it in a walker and it's better
Gotta defend my Walking Barrage VS bots. It basically is a skill based 380, and barrages don't really care about scatter modifier since they come pre-scattered.
Walking barrage is best used at the mouth of a base, because it basically sets off a triple set of artillery (left, right, and center) then goes a bit forward and does it again and again and again. Throw a 380 on your left base, walking into the front base, and solo the right base. Then you can run into the softened left and center bases afterward.
You got command bunkers? 380 and Walking direct hits will delete them for you, without having to really go into the danger zone.
I do agree that if you have -1 strat, you might want to drop the Walking over the 380, but they are largely interchangeable.
I feel like the whole idea of the non lethal strats is to provide breathing room in case the bugs are overwhelming the team and need something to allow them to reset. I get that we prefer to kill them but there are times where that ain’t possible. Plus the fact they are easy to unlock and have low cooldown gives low level helldivers a lot of a utility and support to set up for kills
I'd put eagle airstrike on A or high B just for its utility alone sure the ones on B has the capacity to stay longer to kill bugs but they don't have the same utility as airstrike that can close bug holes and kill everything aside from titans
saves me a lot of time in closing heavy nests and killing a big chunk of the bugs there including the spewers and chargers
380 is good for dealing with Tier 2 and Tier 3 bot objectives. Can handle a large area while you can safely wait outside to later clean up leftovers
I gotta stand up for my boy Walking Barrage, the trick is to throw it in FRONT of the base and let it walk over it. Works really well for starting a fight, because both the Helldiver and the beacon stay out of bot detection radius while hell rains down from above. It won't reliably clear a heavy base, but it'll soften it up real good, and it's great at wiping Destroy objectives without having to get anywhere near it.
it still hops over a lot of terrain.
if all i wanted to do was "soften up" a base i could just stand back and lob eagle-strikes at it on cooldown from behind a rock and be ready for more in half the time.
I love cluster on bugs since it seems to be a bit better at hitting through and around terrain that blocks a lot of the other eagles. It does however love to murder your teammates if it can at all and is bad at killing anything past chaff and the lower end of medium bugs. I've had cluster save me where airstrikes/500kg/napalm hit overhangs and mesas and not enemies.
Rockets are useful against bots, you just need to know what to throw 'em at.
They are anti-tank and anti-turret.
Precision is good for objective-sniping, as a well-placed precision or 500kg will destroy the Observation Towers and similar structures, meaning you don't have to wait for a Hellbomb to come down, be armed and detonate.
Railcannon has a secret. If ever used it you surely have noticed that the cannon's laser comes at the angle depending on where the ship is located. If you position a biletitan to face it's head towards where the ship is positioned you can one shot him with railcannon as it will hit it's head.
fully aware, people could also just use 500kg and kill it without needing such a narrow angle of attack.
@@OhDough Ik, I only found out about it recently cuz I always tend to use 500kg
I would use napalm more on bugs if it wasn't tied to 500kg re-arm. Some times you cant get to use them efficiently so i just take gas and 500, and if the modifier is orbitals will miss, i'll suffer with the eagle rearm dilemma or take EATS
Orbital Precision Strike should be A or high B, it's very useful used with stun grenades, lower cooldown than others. You can use it to take out certain objectives that normally require a Hellbomb too (Jammer, Detector tower).
Lol i was just about to say something about the rocket pods over eagle but u changed it last sec. Love your video man favorite hd content.
The speed at which you say "Weenie Hut Jr. Special Deluxe Combo w/ Small Fries" is impressive
about your profile pic icon for the coin, what is the bottom part? someone pointing a double shotgun barrel to ur face, while ur sippin on a sippy cup?
Orbital Precision strike is my replacement for the orbital railcannon. One-shots bile titans and has a really short cooldown to do that.
what you made for your Spores show up as purple ingame? Mine looks yellow just like the fog.
Walking barrage would be better if it literally walked in a straight line in the direction you throw it, vs staggering like a drunk elephant.
I definitely hope they upgrade smoke, it needs to basically make you invisible unless actively shooting at stuff within the smoke
I like the IDEA of gatling barrage but it needs help. Needs to faster fire rate, heavier saturation, and bigger aoe. Also a sound buff. It should feel like the area is being drilled from orbit not having pebbles flicked down.
Id stick eagle strike in high B or A tier for bugs, simply because it has the potential to kill things immediately if angled accordingly. The napalm and gas comparatively are better in certain situations where funnel them in a choke-point or in a spot for a while for it to matter. But if youre on the move and need more frontloaded damage, eagle strikes are a good 2nd option for strategems imho.
Using an orbital or airstrike for chaff seems crazy to me, guard dog and a good primary is more consistent with no down time.
A 120 on a bug breach puts in some work. I’ve killed as high as 42 bugs on one shell from the 120. Also got lucky and killed Bile Titans with them coming out of a breach.
You can do the same numbers with an orbital air burst or the orbital gas with much less cooldown though
Thx!! I hope u can do one with pistols cuz idk one to use
"Calm down there twitter fingers" xD LMAO!
yeah, for bots i always bring eagle strike and 380mm, and if its a handicap that removes a slot, i always bring the Eagle Strike except for the mission with the bunkers
I think the game railroads you into using eagles over orbitals most of the time anyway. The god awful calldown times and stratagem inaccuracy modifiers. My "precision" strike going 50 feet off target doesn't make me enjoy the artificial tedium and difficulty added to a mission.
Im starting to enjoy using the 120mm barrage though. If I've got 4 slots I'll take it but probably not on 3. It also blows up research stations, I assume the 380 can as well if it can hit it.
I only use the laser to kill bunkers, it can also kill a gunship factory but I don't find those worth wasting a laser on. I don't really enjoy interacting with command bunkers so thats why I throw a laser at them.
Just found your channel a few days ago while at work on break. Subbed real quick after seeing how much time you put into playing and testing. Thanks for the knowledge man. Can't wait to get home and spread Democracy.
with my experience walking barrage needs to walk into the base. Meaning you have to throw the beacon (I can’t remember the exact range) 10 - 20 meters in front of the base and not in the middle of the base
Because of the cooldowns and some planet modifiers like worse accuracy for orbitals, I believe Eagle strikes are always better and more consistent. You know where those strikes hit, you know which direction and general area of the effect (even with cluster strike).
I was gonna say vs Bots cluster is better than people think. It kills Hulks but you fixed it.
Eagle airstrike is pretty great against bugs though, wipes out small to medium nests in one strike if you know how to position the toss. Also great at wiping a patrol since most of them just walks along in a conga line, ripe to be attacked from the side or having the airstrike drop a couple of bombs on them. Semi good against both types of shrooms, semi because sometimes the strategem just bounces around the ground around the shroom until it deploys outside of the area of the mushrooms. The only thing it can't kill reliably are the titan, had better experience killing chargers and other bugs. Overall great for a hit and run build from my experience.
I've had a better experience in getting the orbital laser to clear out nests and hordes of bugs, also works great against robot bases. I just dive throw towards the general area where I'm planning to go and lay low while the laser wipes out most of the enemies.
Rail cannon is weird one. I take it when there is orbital scatter effect, cause precision is just useless at that point (unless orbital laser feels like a better option given the mission and teammates' loadout). Great against chargers, no question, but then it does stuff like targeting Hive guard instead of bile titan (not sure when it selects the target, maybe the titan was not close enough when strategem landed, but he was coming our way fast and I threw the thing right into his path, when it started targeting -visually- the titan and the hive guard were basically next to each other already)
My favourite bots helldive loadout is 380, 120, gattling barrage and orbital laser with no support or backpack. It trivializes certain objectives but I've never seen anyone run anything close to it so I'm glad to see the 380 and 120 here
I know it's personal opinion but I can't help but think you're kinda deluisonal, or maybe just playstyle difference. There's no way in hell Eagle airstrike is not top A or even S for bugs. It does buildings, does chargers, does groups of small bugs, damages titans, you can use it in every situation. Whenever I'm not running 500 i'll have an airstrike with me.
Also something to keep in mind for when you're putting an eagle strategem and orbital against each other, eagle stragetems share cooldown with the 500kg.
With the 500 being so dominant, you almost always bring it, so bringing another eagle strategem feels like a waste since if you don't use it you can't cooldown the 500 but if you send the eagle back you lose more than 1 strategem at a time. This is why I say orbital gas is better than eagle napalm, simply cuz it doesn't hinder 500's cooldown.
The problem with a lot of orbitals it seems is that their cooldowns are too long, specifically the orbitals that are of the barrage variety. So 380, 120, walking, and precision strike. You use it once and then its on cooldown for forever, its especially noticeable with the precision strike, the cooldown is much to long for just a single 380mm round.
it would be fine if they have more consistent ground-coverage. the RNG shell-patterns, long cooldown and LOING active-time just makes them a PITA to use and utterly RNG in their results.
the thing with laser orbital is that there is nothing else to take, you don't want to stack two eagle stratagems, or taking weird team killing stratagem (bugs)
I don't mind stacking 2 eagles, 500kg and napalm is a better combo than anything vs bugs especially when the modifier making orbitals miss exists.
Overall, good tierlist my only problems in the bug section is that orbital gas strike should be in weenie hut or c tier because at most it can kill a hive guard, while railcannon which can 1 tap bile titan should be in A or B. and airstrike is one of my favorite strategems because it wipes out bug nests and outposts and will kill almost anything but titans, and striders and over all is good crowd control and the dopamine boost you get when you put that on a bug breach... at least 15 kills if your unlucky its an easy A tier for amazing. also any smoke goes in weenie hut for both (I have never tried smoke I just hate it).
You have the only advertising I don’t skip … haha so damn fast
how do you tell beforehand what missions will have bile spewers? being able to tell whether they’re there or not would change what i bring, i feel like i always have to be prepared just in case
ICBM = almost always spewers, egg mission = 0 or close to 0 chance of spewers. it's mission dependent and even then there's variance
fire should slow or stun enemies so they get more tick damage when exposed
My dude, there is no k or c sound in the first syllable of especially.
Im pretty sure Airburst when effect by scatter all burst hit the same spot just the spot is random
your view is a bit distorted as you play solo most of the time. Some of these staratagems should be higher becasue you can throw them on breaches and kill a lot but when you solo you need something to kill rather than help you kill
solo vs group doesn'tt change how I play in the slightest, I'll never understand that view point. does playing in a group buff anything in the game outside of the team reload aspect?
@@OhDough @OhDough If you qp into mission with 3 dudes running double anti tank you can absolutely fuck around with nonsensical crowd clear builds like Gas Strike/Napalm and handle breaches while your team kills Titans for you. Playing in groups lets you have the option of "dedicated roles" in a way even if its with randoms
@@OhDoughIn my opinion, it's an indirect buff to anything anyone brings to the mission. Playing in a team allows you to play how you want without sweating and still contribute, as everyone's build would have their own strengths and weaknesses.
@@OhDough Having played solo and Coop A LOT at Helldive I can wholeheartedly agree with you dude. Whilst it is fun to play off meta stuff, certain things are simple better or not and it only depends on how you approach fights not how many players.
You do seem to massively underrate certain stratagems though. but it's all a matter of perspective. Orbital Railcannon is hands down the quickest way to finish off a B.Titan. Yes you have to pop a quasar into his face first for it to kill but you do not need to aim like with the 500kg and it will reliably be the target plus the cooldown is fine for most as they play suicide mission or below.
@@OhDough Because you are still in the solo player mindset. You're not a team player sticking with the group and working as a single unit because (I'm assuming here) you find it inefficient and so you miss understand a lot of these strikes and how in a group they can be absolute game changers.
Just like people be hating on my Spear when i make it work constantly with little to no issue because my friends are able to play in ways where it reduces the work we need to put in to finish a mission. Granted we are not setting world record speedrun times with the way we play. But we clean out the mission for all the loot and samples we can haul, and wipe out all side ops.