I ATTEMPTED to make a chair that rolls up... It didn't go as planned...
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- Опубліковано 11 лют 2021
- I tried... I failed... but I am not going to give up!
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![ПОЛНАЯ ИСТОРИЯ ЭКЗОРЦИЗМА [Топ Сикрет]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/qBySr6Bt0B8/mqdefault.jpg)
I worked at a furniture company, and I can tell you that we made worse prototypes than this one, and had less improvement on different stages of the design development. You really did a great job. A single person just doesn't have the project budget to fully develop such a complicated system of interacting parts considering their geometry, physics and properties of materials. If you want a finished product that is ready to use, prepare for years and years of systematic trial and error. Once you get your primary geometry right, you'll find out that it'll twist like a DNA. Or maybe it'll shift sideways. Or it will settle and lose its shape. Maybe it'll break too early for your liking. All these things can and will happen, they are normal in product development. One single person is just overwhelmed with the work that is contained in this process. This may appear to be bad news, but in fact you struggled really well. If you focus on your lessons learnt, you can be proud of this accomplishment. And when you agree with yourself on realistic targets (like _I want it to support my weight_ ) then you can be satisfied with what you made.
Maybe the polyester fabric still is too elastic for your project. How about steel cable, maybe like multiple hand brake cables for bicycles or small motorbikes? You could embed them in tunnels that are drilled under the surface of your wood pieces, and you could adjust their tension with adjusting screws like there are on bicycle hand brakes.
great idea!
I had a similar thought about wires but i think I might go with turning sections of each segment down on a lathe and wrapping the wires, would probably require routing the inner corners of the segments to allow it to roll the other way and off centering the cylinder toward the front of the wedge but seems like it would look awesome
Kevlar or carbon fibre.
I’d love to see her try again with some suggestions like this!
Thats a really awesome idea. I was thinking for rubberized material perhaps old tire tread straps/strips.
As an engineer, you didn't fail you just found a way that didn't work :)
😆😆
ok that's actually wholesome haha
An engineer...🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 Overeducated "persons" that think they can solve problems, yet they create more than they solve, when it comes to construction.
@@bennettjones9696 overeducated **people
@@jimenaroldan549 well, I didn't know pronouns so I didn't want to offend any others than the engineers.🤣
"A woodcrafter spends all day making a chair, before sitting on it and saying they didn't successfully make a chair."
has the same but opposite energy of
"A philosopher spends all day saying the table doesn't exist, before eating dinner off of it."
If a cable was run through the slats, even if the cable was loose (and it would have to be), when the pieces are pushed together the shear forces of the two pieces of wood around the cable could make it act just like a dowel.
@@RSterkenburg And the proper diameter cable will provide the appropriate amount of stretch.
😁🤣😁🤣😁🤣❗
@@RSterkenburg not loose, rather the proper length, but no more. When the chair is set up all pieces should be at maximum tension.
@@fredericdudley6184 no stretch . Wire rope.
You’re being way too hard on yourself. You’re literally sitting on your chair at the end! I consider it a success … yes, a success that can be improved, but a success nonetheless.
"I didn't fail 374 time. I learned 374 ways to not make a chair."
Edison, regarding his attempts of using thousands of different experimental materials as filaments.
"Failed? I should say not! I know thousands of things that don't work!!"
(may be paraphrased)
That’s the spirit 👍
A glass half full is still half empty...
@@moistandsquishy9925 other way round
Well... this is literally how designing and prototyping works. Done it for the past 4 years and i can assure nothing works first time.
If at all
@@Killer36661 well.. i've never came across a furniture piece that did not work at all. Its just that you of course can predict how a chair might be comfortable, but you will never be sure untill you build a full scale prototype.. everything is different and works differently. There are some things that do not work at all but they are easy to get rid off during the designing phase
@@sekritdokumint9326 100% this. If the furniture doesn't work as furniture, then it's just a sculpture. Furniture has a purpose besides just being a work of art.
Major props to all the prototypists out there doing the work needed to take these concepts and make them work.
When it fails as a chair, but succeeds as a stool, perhaps it becomes the concept piece for a stool design.
Agreed. Delete the backrest portion of the stool, spin it 180 degrees, and you have a little campfire type of stool
@@jackanderson9082 Maybe add a latch on the bottom so she can clip it with a carabiner to a backpack
You didn't fail.. You ma'am, have invented an inversion CHAIR.. Nobody has room for the tables anyhow.. Your chair is not only smaller. It's stowaway! Had you laid back all the way it would've instantly eased all the tension in your back from the hours of hard work you had put into the invention. Don't beat yourself up.. Patent it! Your perseverance is admirable. Keep up the good work and inspiration for those who watch.
This energy is what I needed. Thank you sir.
The chair in the end was significantly more stable that the chairs supplied by my student accommodation
ASHAHS TRUE
I dont think you failed at all. This is a proof of concept. There was only a design by a graphic designer, not even an engineer. And you managed to turn that into reality. In terms of functionality, you absolutely nailed it. It can roll up, it can take the shape you want rolled out, and it can support human weight. The only issue was the degree of functionality. A bit of analysis and you will absolutely succeed. Good luck!
Edit: someone replied that it was actually designed and fabricated by an industrial designer instead of a graphic designer. I was unaware of that fact. Regardless, it's still an impressive product no matter who made it.
not a graphic designer, but rather an industrial designer (graphic designers make... graphics, industrial designers create products like this), and for what i found in a website for hiring designers, this was part of his portfolio, he made it for real, as it quotes even the teachers that approved the project, and it seems it even won awards. It has many pictures of people trying it out. It's not an easy career, and this was a project that probably took a lot of time to be created, and many prototypes and attempts with models and functionality tests. I'm studying that same career, and it's not fun seeing people downplay the amount of work something like this takes, even less so trying to frame the original designer as someone who doesn't know what he's doing.
@@Forever_Muffin i see. Thank you for the correction, i edited my comment. Also, good luck in your field. Im pursuing product design so i thought this was a really cool design and build. So really, i had no bad intentions when i said graphic designer. Again, thanks for the clarification. At least other people wont make my mistake.
Drafting engineer
Technical Designer
Drafting technician
industrial illustrator
Technical Assistant
Draftsman
Draughtsman
all terms i feel are a bit outdated, because we don't really draft on paper using rulers and stuff, it's all done in 3D or 2D cad programs, and secondly, drafts are usually for guiding illustrations, while most do finished ready-to-produce accurate drawings.
when Technical Assistant was the more common term, you'd have one engineer overseeing maybe 20 assistants drawing on the same paper, now it's all boiled down to one person because of how easy 3D cad is.
Designer, i don't feel accurately portrays the position of most people holding that title in the industry either.
Designer says to me "art" and "colourful and beautiful designs." While i design fit for purpose items with weight calculations and flow distributions. but i can't come up with a better name, definitely not engineer though, i hold those in high esteem and now even garbagemen are waste management engineers... some of these terms are quite silly and needlessly confusing.
@@JackPorter how can you do both the "art" and "engineering" parts as a job?
Edit: I mean, is there a profession that unites both?
The one thing that surprised me was you immediately worked on a full scale prototype. I'm used to seeing miniatures being built first
You didn't really fail. You did something very cool that is still in progress. What you did is way impressive.
How did you fail? That was a very eureka moment when the chair actually supported your weight. I went into this video expecting to see the chair fall apart and you crying (cause I would), but you learned so much! You are inspiring. I think the Thumbnail should instead say “Failure is Okay”.
The master has failed more times than the apprentice has even tried.
I mean...
That IS how one gets gud.
Every failure is a piece of armor against future failure until you complete a full set.
True you practice makes perfect..
You did not fail at all, the point of a chair is to sit on it and you achieved that already. For the rest of the things that didn't work out you just have to find another way. Amazing work!!!! It makes me so happy to see people experimenting and doing projects. It just shows how creative and capable we are as humans.
You were so close! A more aggressive radius in the curve after the seat transition into the back looks like it will do the job.
I mean... I would have failed during the part where you had to do math to figure out how many pieces you needed. You’re a badass for even tackling this. 🙌🏼
😂😂😂 that was super hard for me!
Just what I was thinking
I have an idea. I don't have the skills but I watch many of you guys channels. Anyway I suggestion is bend your wood first long ways. You can still a board as a seat to test it. Once you have the shape correct your can mark where to cut the pieces. The area you used the temp seat on you can cut the individual planks to match that are and then replace it into the chair. Once you have the shape I would suggest putting your material on before cutting the individual pieces. Maybe even try curf bending there is a channel I watched the other day where he did the bending just by making curf cuts. Also I think you may have taken out to much material when you plan and sanded. Just my thoughts
FAI-'LURES' YOU TO SUCCESS. YOU ARE ALMOST THERE WW ~(- ! -)~
@@3x3CustomTamar awesome video and a great project! I think you are almost there, you only need to figure out the proper geometry. Forget about the rubber though, you need something that does NOT stretch. The bands that you used are good enough I guess and then beautifying them with felt and the finished washers is a great idea! Go get'em!
Not failing at all. This is learning, developing skills and creating.
Fr pretty damn impressive
We learned how to not build this chair, which is something we didn't know before
We only fail if we fail to learn from mistakes
No where in this did she mention moving that saw or opening a window to run the length of board bought. That tells me not alot was learned just worked through. This is a lesson in hard headedness not any amount of actual design reverse engineering.
Indeed. As I hear Tamar saying "I'm just going to call this one a fail" (24:05), my thought is: I'd call it "a successful experiment" -- it was a fail from the perspective of getting a happy chair, but a success in terms of attempting to do so, and seeing what one can learn from it. And learning happened! About types of webbing, about angles and give, etc. Good stuff, Tamar!
I have so much respect for you. Showing your attempts, even when they don't work out, takes a lot of courage and shows a lot of character. This was amazing to watch. You held yourself together really well for how frustrated you must have been. Mad props!
This wasn’t easy to post at all....
I would have calculated the barycentre of the whole thing to see exactly where it will be stable and firm before starting to build. Good luck👍
I have absolutely no idea how the YT algorithm led me here, having never seen one of your videos or really anything like this before, but really glad it did. That was a really interesting experiment, and I hope you return to it sometime and get it to work!
Ha. Awesome to hear! I will try again when it warms up outside!
Same
Sameee
I feel like the seatbelt material was a good idea since you need something that bends but doesn’t stretch and doesn’t snap
Totally but it has to be glued.
Rachet strap belts would work.
True, but it's designed to be easily torn and cut (kind of like duct tape). Puncturing or cutting any part of the material would drastically decrease it's overall integrity.
@@HexJK ratchet strap belt?
@@HexJK gotta use heavy duty sewing to overlap the bit you cut and attach em like folded on eachother. That’s how manufacturers attach it to the seat and what retracts it back, in a loop, sewed.
UA-cam has recommended this video to me at least a dozen times, and I didn’t think it was for me. But then I finally clicked and alas the algorithm was right. I loved this video and I love your content! It is so calming and honestly so nice to see someone mess up but not get overly stressed out about it. Also, the calming sounds of your workshop really brought me peace. Thanks for being awesome and keep up the good work!
Awesome to hear! Glad you liked it!
"Failure is always an option" is one of my favorite quotes from Mythbusters. This video encapsulates that notion 100%. I don't think there are a lot of people who would upload this type of video, but I like it, and I respect it. It shows that no matter how much you plan every aspect, sometimes things just don't work out. It happens. As makers, its how you handle the failures and what you learn from them that really matter.
No way you actually managed to pull it off! My jaw dropped as you demonstrated that you were actually able to balance yourself on it, on your first try?! That’s insaneeeee, I’m excited to see more progress on this!
👍👍
Everyone shows their successes on UA-cam, it's nice to see the reality of a having an idea and trying it.
This is a real as it gets. Ha
@@3x3CustomTamar This video makes me really happy to see professionals try, perservere, fail, and evaluate their own learning experiences for all to see
@@3x3CustomTamar Real is good! Thanks for sharing this one.
@Maun Usina I wrote a comment about using hundreds of individual hinges further up... this is a much smarter way to achieve that :D
@Maun Usina I was wonder about Kevlar tape or rope the sort that is used in internal mast halyards.
This is NOT a failure, because you have found by trial and error almost the right solution. I think maybe reversing the angles on the back part will do the trick. Anyway - I love your enthusiasm and commitment, this is truly inspiring. Don't give up - keep on trying. All the best.
Love that you just sketched it, cut it, and started assembling. A great Roll-up Chair 1.0!
Idea: wrap the belt on outside of both curves, so the bottom stays the same but midway up a break and the belt continues on the other side of the wood. Probably more back support, but one complication: you have to fold it in half before rolling up.
Showing a failed attempt is more encouraging than showing everything perfect all the time. Thank you.
For a first bash at this project, it's not bad. I think this one might even work a little better if you just remove a few segments from the front curves, and shuffle all the other parts along.
Next time? I'd allow a bit for compression of the timber and stretching of the straps, so the chair without a person in it might actually look like it's tipping too far forward.
Maybe add some sort of subtle tongue/groove mouldings to the mating faces of the timber, so they lock together (this should help to prevent the shape from twisting when you sit on it)
Good idea with the teeth, but wood has too much give under compression, and the back has no support. If she were to lean in it, the wood would permanently deform over use. Either going full metal, inserting metal pins or sandwiching the blocks with a non-compressive material could fix that
Having a compressive support strut that could be carried inside the rolled up chair could help. It would attach from seat to bottom end of chair.
oh wow hi! never thought i'd find you here! i watch your videos!
What if you used hinges? They can't stretch or twist and can hold the weight of a person. I am not sure about the price tough.
@@mikkelnyhuus9173 Wood has some compressive strength along the grain direction of the material. It might be sufficient to insert hardwood dowel pins.
Hope this doesn't come off badly. I think the angles are very important to get right, that includes after sanding/finishing. I think also the wood has to be a hard wood since they push against each other to hold the shape. (saying that since you mentioned softer woods for testing, doesn't need to be expensive, just needs to be something hard) Then I think the pieces need to be as close to side by side either flat on the floor or in the curved shape while screwing them together. So making the circles for the pieces to curve around may be a good idea for you to keep them as close as possible. Lastly, I think the material that holds them together shouldn't be able to stretch at all. (if possible) I think if it can stretch, the angles and forces between pieces will not be as strong/correct. I think the felt is applied on top of a non-stretchy, thin, strong material. The material has to be strong enough to hold your weight while wrapped around the inner circle shape. Those are my best guesses, hope they didn't come off as saying you did a bad job or anything. You really did pretty great and gave us all the ideas on what seems to work and what doesn't and why. Wish you the best. :)
As a cabinet maker of 20 years I can honestly say that was an amazing attempt, bravo. The workshops I've worked in would take a solid year of trail and error before getting right recipe. You have done amazing and should be very proud of yourself.
Going to work on v2!
this was the first time i clicked on a video because i genuinely said “huh, that’s an interesting engineering challenge”
29 mins is way too long and borring :/
@@hexidev yet you still watched the video 🤣
it is longer than some videos out there. However, that doesn’t take away from the value of it. I personally like the video length and the time dedicated to showing the trial and error of the project. You don’t always see this side of projects on youtube despite it being a large part of being a maker. Just my two cents (even though nobody asked 👍)
@@hexidev We can't wait for your interesting, streamlined, efficient video on creating a novel item such as this. It must not exceed 15 minutes, otherwise it will be too long and "borring". Prickhole.
@@akilo3769 ik ik 😂
I appreciate you showing your "failures." So many content creators only show their successes. Showing that failures happen let us know that we are not alone and we are not "doing it wrong." Thanks!!
I see 2 ways 1 you can run a steel cable all the way through it that way you can tighten it up at the end and take out all the slack or 2 under exaggerate all your Bends So that the load Corrects them
Agreed. Most things are a process and by only showing the successes it gives a false image of how things work. I teach science and one of my biggest hurdles is getting kids to risk being wrong.
I loved your persistence with this! Such a great video. It was so creative and a joy to watch. You did amazing by the way. I applaud your patience. ❤
I'd love to see a bunch of channels collab with you to get this to work! I would 100% ask Simone Giertz, Adam from Mythbusters, even Evan and Katelyn, and everyone else that doesn't come to mind right now to help you.
(Although it could be annoying, so I won't go for it, but it would be amazing)
When a channel is actually sponsored by companies that have products within the scope of the channel 😩😍
Oh god finally
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You didn't show a build, you showed perseverance. Good try!
I really wanted it to work!
@@3x3CustomTamar You're amazing! You never, ever give up, do you? I remember how you fixed the mistake you'd initially made with your GGBO guitar last year. Most people wouldn't have bothered. And most people would have given up on building this chair. But not you.
@@3x3CustomTamar n it definitely will,thing is I believe the back support parts need to be cut diff angle thn sittin parts.you're amazing thu,always enjoy following your work girl,thx 4 sharing darn 👍
@@dollygobby2371 you only need to insert thin triangular cross section pieces of woodbetween back rest to reverse the back rest profile to support the pressure of leaning back.
That's how the ligtht bulb was invented.
I think what you're missing there is actually a counter-curvature, maybe? Thechair works with compression and tension and what means the static cubes you cut from SketchUp are not gonna be alligned the way they're supposed to be with the weight of a human being. Either using a material that has less stretch to it (not more) or reducing the tensioned curve part should do the job! Good luck, that was a nice start!
i love how you smiled through the whole process i love you for this video
I totally thought that it was just not gonna be possible to hold a person with the arch but thats what you nailed, seems like the backrest portion is just trial and error, hope to see it finished!
I would drill holes through the hard wood pieces and put a steel cable in that can be tightened with a suitable mechanism during assembly.
perfect
Do it? 😊
This wouldn't allow for such an elegant roll-up which is the whole point.
@@-dubu She could remove the cable when finished. That's why they said "during assembly"
@@JoshSauder That's true, but you'd be left with rather ugly holes that would be visible on the finished item when rolled up
You will never fail. You are collecting experience for future analysis and projects.
Thanks for sharing your experiences.
I freaking love this! Thank you for trying projects and sharing them even if they don't go exactly as you wanted. It's so fun to watch you problem solve. Also, as someone who is trying to get more comfortable with failing in front of people, this is so inspirational to me. You rock! On to your next video where you try again!
I failed on the second attempt too…
Words that begin with the letter ‘e’: experiment -> experience -> education -> extraordinary -> excellence! You’re an inspiration, Tamar. Keep up the great work!
👍👍👍 I’ll pass those along to the little guy 😉
UA-cam's comment of the day right here. Well done to you, sir. AND YOU, Tamar. I think we've all been there. We've tried, tried again, tried AGAIN, and still couldn't make it work.
That's okay. We all learn.
Endurance
@@theriphraff Ooh! That’s a good one too!
When I see that “rubber” it looks like conveyor belt material- when conveyors break there can be free scraps- asks around any gravel pits or maybe it can be ordered. I also kept thinking about 1/4” thickness leather
both leather and conveyor belts stretch. I would think something like a seat belt or a fabric that does not stretch.
@@erikzorger3311 Yeah eventually she used Polyester, which she mentioned is used for seatbelts
Came to make the same suggestion on the conveyor belt materal.. it is tough stuff
Your curiosity and tenacity is inspiring. Your anxiety over the project is killing me though.
Haha imagine what it’s doing to me…
From one of my most significant teachers as a blacksmith: "The only difference between me and you is I've made more mistakes." With that in mind as I have taught others I make a point of letting my students know where I have "failed" and shown them my process as I figure out the mess. That figuring and the example of the perseverance is the more valuable lesson often. Why I kept watching was when I caught on that you were doing something of what I do and how I learned my craft. Good on you.
As you asked for suggestions ... and granted that I do very little with wood and have never claimed to be a woodworker ... I would, yes, prototype with less expensive material. I would also, first, prototype just one side, the 4" or so track that forms the "S". Get the angles right with that, and load test just the one track so I would have half the assembly. Once I had the one side forming the right curve and demonstrably holding something more than half the expected load, and most importantly, the bulk of my mistakes out of the way, then I might prototype the full width of the chair.
Other random thought is that this reminds me very much of the work of a cooper. In a sense aren't you connecting two "half barrels" to make a chair? (OK, maybe three.) It seems to my inexpert eye that what you're doing is what a cooper does in preparing staves to fit the curve of the barrel, and taking advantage of modern materials to replace the barrel hoops in open arcs. If it were me I might nose into that craft to see if there are tools and techniques that crossed over.
Very impressed! Thank you!
Put some shims between so you can play with the angles a bit more. That way you can actually sit and test it.
This seems like a very good approach. Use the same thickness between all of them as you can use that to find the correct width for all of those strips.
For a quick experiment setup, use some perforated metal hanger straps. They're strong, don't have any stretch in them and comes with holes for screws. You'd need to put the chair on something rather than directly on the wood floor of course, but it'd save you from having to struggle with mounting the better straps until you've figured out the angles.
Even if the holes don't line up perfectly for the pieces, this isn't too much of a problem - instead of having a single strap for everything, just use shorter pieces. If needs be you can have a piece for every connection and simply offset them as needed.
Yes that’s what I was thinking to. Figure out the amount of angle necessary the device thickness between each space. Glueing a hard rubber or plastic or just use wood shims. The same model chair could be used. The bottom of chair looks great. Taping the spacers first to do a dry run would possibly be best option.
I think it’s not a fail yet. Just finish with spacers.
Walnut or Padauk shims would look great
Ben nault is right add some wedges on the back parts that should give you more curve and better support. And its not a fail its just not the right angle for your back.
If the math says 86 degrees, even with a hard wood, 87+ to compensate for compressibility.
The test with Pine will compress more and ruin a test for hardwood. Also the pine will be less elastic. Skip the pine test. Use the same Maple, find a better connection method for rapid prototyping.
Insted of remaking it, I would shim between the parts until I got it to the position I wanted, just to see how it would act with the back raised up properly.
Even tho you drew it up in sketch up, you did not take into account the flex in materials so the angels would be slightly off on each part and end up with a large error in the end, hence, shiming to get it in its correct position
Yeah... that's exactly what I was thinking at the end of the video... Just cut a number of shims, and test fit them using the pinching between the boards... You could cut them all standard and just figure out how many to put in in which slots to make the curve you actually want..
I give all the props to you for attempting this and not givng up!! Sometimes stuff just doesnt work and it's ok! ☺
You did an amazing job proving that it can work, looking forward to seeing how it comes out when you try again!
Idea:
1.) Drill channels into the wood through which you can pull steel cables and put something at the end for tightening.
2.) Make the legs and the sitting section slightly thicker... actually, make the whole thing x1.5 thicker
3.) To mitigate unwanted rotations around the vertical axis (especially in the leg area) choose steel cables that are a bit on the thicker side and don’t pull them directly through the wood, insert metal tubes into the wood through which you can tightly pull the steel cables and put two cables near the margins of each leg, basically in an attempt to stop each individual leg from twisting around itself.
4.) Very hard woods are your friend in this case - almost no screws required !
... try replacing the steel parts with carbon fibre and other stuff if you hate to see your chair rusting, or just oil up your chair, it’s your choice.
Yep - this.
While the idea of a chair that rolls up is inherently impractical and flawed, using stiffer materials certainly would make it more usable.
The suggested steel-cables - they are available in corrosion-resistant materials. Steel ribbons might also work nicely, but can not be rolled up that tightly.
And the wooden parts them self might also benefit from being made from harder wood or at least have a hard surface protecting the edges as the wedging-action concentrates the force on the edges. Together with the elasticity of the fabric it makes the whole construction very springy. (the form you used is also often used specifically to make springy wooden chairs)
And to prevent rocking from side-to-side some interlocking fingers might help a bit, but a construction that can be rolled up inherently has that problem unless you have some extra mechanics in place to prevent that.
If you want to make the whole thing lighter - the wood does not need to be solid. An ibeam form would also work. The stress is only compression on the inside-surface and tension on the outside.
And lastly - using some normal metal hinges instead of an elastic material for the rollup-function might work.
Belts are built for tension and not for compression. Thats why the legs work and the backrest sags. Cables seem tempting but if you pull one cable through the hole chair you will loose the ability to roll up the chair.
@@ABaumstumpf steel micromesh weave would work very well instead of the belts and still allow for rolling up. The problem is itd be expensive. I feel like she's really close, and just removing like 1 or 2 slats and re-attaching the belts would fix the angle enough for it to work right.
i agree.I think the thicknes is the biggest problem. it would make the whole chair much more stable if u had thicker wood blocks
You beat me to it. I just had the same idea and posted above :-) Just need to rout a radius on the top side of the blocks to allow the chair to roll up.
You might be able to add shims to the existing chair between any parts that are “sagging” too much until you get it to the proper orientation and then measure the new angles between each piece to figure out new block sizes
Please correct me if I'm wrong: I think for the longevity of the chair and therefore the fabric it's essential to change the angles of the wood. To my understanding, the best result are parallelograms/trapezoids that have angled sides which try to have maximised horizontal cut orientation. You want to reduce the torque and with that you have more friction surface between the wood.
At the back piece of course a maximised perpendicular cut orientation.
Sorry for the third addition, I'm at the phone, editing is not available.
Just adding a shim or even an angled strip might be a worse result because the strength of the chair does not come from the fabric but must energy is hold from friction between the wood pieces. So it's very important to have them fit together on big areas and have their cuts in between perpendicular to the force direction.
@@Majorhantines you may be onto something. I was thinking a slight angle (1-2*) to cause a compression zone to create a friction plane but this would try to separate the fabric topside a bit as well.
The parallelogram or close to thereof may do close to the same amount of friction in the plane without it making the chair stand more upright when you get off from it.
@@Majorhantines I think I follow what you're saying. Shim might have been a bad choice of word on my part.
I was more thinking you could extend the current pieces of wood by glueing on an additional strip of wood that would increase the angle between the individual pieces, but angled so that it doesn't change the thickness of the spaces where the wood attaches to the actual cloth. Basically making the wood pieces bigger without having to disassemble and recut everything. Plus you could make tweaks in real time as you test it by temporarily adding wood and removing it until you are happy with the curve. Wood glue shoouuld be stronger than the wood it is connecting, but you might be right and it could create unexpected weak failure points in the real world.
Sorry for the super slow reply. Didn't even notice I had a notification to respond to. :P
Love the channel and project and best of luck!
I admire your persistence. Good for you!
No failure here
Your determination is inspirational
Love the effort. Two things I’d change. Find a material that doesn’t stretch as much (you don’t want the gaps to open up you want them to stay tight together under load). Then I’d glue the strap material to the wood pieces with some kind of rubber cement or similar. That would help eliminate the stretching of the strapping as well.
maybe tunneling a internal steelcable structure with some "tensioner" at the end, to give the right tension it needs to have, in order to support the added force when you sit...
I agree, take it one step further with an internal ratchet strap to minimize wear (steel/wood versus nylon/wood). Plus’s they can be picked up cheap!
Agreed - I had that same thought from a posable dial indicator freezable arm I use at work. Because the cable might wear against the maple, it might be a good idea to journal some tubing or use a cable sheath. Wear points will inside the curves at the edges of pieces under tension, and shielding would help prevent deformation in those areas. Additionally, a router could produce interlocking cams on the pieces which would alleviate some of the alignment issues, particularly under load.
Aaaaaahhhh! That’s a super good idea. I agree
Try dyneema (Ultra-high-molecular-weight polyethylene). 8 times stronger than steel, very low friction, low wearing, and even much less stretching.
You could tunnel webbing! As for the tensioner, since when the chair is rolled or flat the cable or webbing would be loose you just need a clamp on one end and you can hand tighten it and clamp it in place.
U r my hero! That was a great try kid... I am terrible with computers and definitely admire your abilities and your determination!!!
It was not a fail, it part of the learning process. 2 thumbs up.
Some things I'm noticing when I did a static analysis of this.
1: On paper this design can work, the fundamentals are there, so keep going!
2: The webbing does a lot of the work. Think of this entire structure as a beam, as it is bent one side has to stretch while the other is compressed. The webbing handles the stretch(tension) and the blocks handle the compression.
3: The joints between the blocks matter. Gravity and your bodyweight are working to push the blocks apart. I'm unsure how much of a role friction plays in the strength of the chair, maybe the webbing holds all the blocks in place? Either way, a little more friction couldn't hurt. .
4: The distance between blocks matters: Having tight joints between the blocks should make the whole structure more stable.
My recommendations:
Experiment in miniature. Save some time and materials!
Eliminate the flat portion between the seat curve and the back curve. You're right that the seat is most stable atop that arc, so make that the seat.
I would try assembling it on its side to take the guesswork out of that process. The final shape is as affected by the blocks as it is by the gaps between blocks.
Use a webbing that's high strength with very little stretch.
On that note, stretch cannot be entirely eliminated. Consider applying the webbing "too tight" so that it pulls the chair out of shape, with gaps between the blocks on the non-webbing side. That way when you sit the webbing will stretch a little, and the chair will fall into the correct shape.
Lastly, Consider adding a curve to the bottom support section that sits on the floor (such that the webbing is on the inside of the curve). When you sit or lean in the chair, the tension on the webbing will try to pull this section flat to the ground, but the blocks will form an arch to resist and it might just act as a spring.
Such awesome suggestions! I’m going to attempt again!
For added thought: 1.The floor/base section would to be square cross sections rather than trapezoidal, 2. The curved sections trapezoidal cross sections need to be more radical to allow for webbing flex/springiness, 3. The original project was also a "failure" (hence the photoshopped person sitting on the chair).
I'd also cut the blocks a little bit thinner to increase the friction on the curves. I don't think they'd need to be much smaller either, just a little so you have a couple more on the curves. Also some sort of poly finish on the curved edges could help with the friction needed to stop them from moving around as much once there's some weight on it. I kind of want to try this now, and I have some time off...I just need to figure out how to use sketchup.
i would also consider changing the angle a tiny bit too. The final angle is the one on your drawing. Even though it is slight the stretching of the material plus the compression of the wood needs to be considered. Plus, keep at it. it is good see this get worked out. No failing just learning!
Peppery Peppers your thinking are correct. But the rigidity of a strap is important. It must be nearly infinity rigid. Maybe this chair will be buildable with crane straps.
Respect!! For all of your perseverance, lessons learned, and not being afraid to show what did not work.
This challenged me more than I thought it would
Super close on the 1st so awesome
You did not fail. This is the research and developing part of a project.
Absolutely natural phase on any project.
You are great. Focused, dedicated, patient.
Do not give up!!
Just a question. Is your shop in Michigan?
There is a famous quote from a well known inventor that said this: “I failed my way to success”.
Thanks for putting something on here where failure is an option. Doesn’t mean we cannot do it again. I watched all the way. Us builders have all been there, I’m sure many times. Courage for documenting it all.
It’s really upsetting as it’s happening. But I know I’ll just be stronger and more knowledgeable from it. Onward!
@@3x3CustomTamar The master has failed more times than the student has even tried - Keep going!
I often tell my kids not to fear failure, that every failure is a learning experience and that you learn more from your failures than you do your successes.
Edison on the light bulb said he had not failed 10,000 times, he found 10,000 ways that didn't work.
Someone wiser than me said, "You only fail if you stop trying".
@elgur tf- 💀
Love, Love that you try. Good job.
It wasn’t a fail. It was a valuable learning experience for yourself and your viewers as well! Your awesome!
“You miss 100% of the shots you don’t take - Wayne Gretzky” - Michael Scott
This was such an ambitious build. I love it! You’re so creative and inspire me to be a better woodworker! Great attempt. I’m sure you’ll figure it out and come back with a successful chair. And if not, no biggie. At least you tired. Keep up the great work!
I will for sure try again! I have to. Ha
Uh, why are you quoting Michael Scott quoting Gretzky rather than just quoting Gretzky?
I have to admire your effort. First, you are reverse-engineering something that you saw. Second, instead of trying off-camera and showing only your success, you were willing to show us that your character is strong enough to fail in front of your viewers. You are the kind of person who makes everyone around you trust your honesty. Failure isn't final, it is just the steps leading to success.
Glad you liked it. This is just reality. Sometimes we fail. And it’s ok. 💪
Hope to see you tackle this project again soon! Seems like you're right around the corner of nailing it.
I wish i was with you on this build. This is such a cool idea. I can’t believe your resilience. You really gave this project hell and did not quit. Great work.
At the stage you left it, I would add shims until you get the angle of the back of the chair correct. That could help you figure them out for the next attempt. Also, try adding a couple degrees on those angles in the design to compensate for the flex.
This is exactly what I would do, add shims and account for the flex of the material. Perhaps even make the back a few degrees forward, that way when it stops flexing it ends at a comfortable angle. I also noticed the seat looks a bit long and would be worried about the strength of the material past a certain distance.
This. And start the seat 1 or 2 segments earlier.
I have an old school trick for assembly for you...
Use pva glue to glue the parts together first, but instead of glueing ‘wood to wood’ insert a single sheet of newspaper between the peices, then clamp as you would for a full glued assembly.
Once the chair is assembled glued, add the strap.
Then unroll it, the paper will shear in the centre, leaving half of the paper left on each face - if needs be, give the joins a tap with a wide bevelled chisel to split the paper.
Of course it will need cleaning up (with said chisel). - to minimise cleanup just glue short patches rather than the full contacting surface.
Failing means you are learning. You are doing awesome!
Maybe heavy duty nylon straps. Staple them to the wood just like you did but put more tension on the straps. The jig that you mentioned would be a grand idea. I would probably coat the straps and the wood with a epoxy resin on the bottom as well the staples will hold the straps in place but will give out with ware and tear down the line.
As for the wood on the back, that is going to take some playing around with different thicknesses on each piece. You are essentially making a reverse keystone arch found in architecture. Try and experiment with the prototype you have and put small shims in between each wood piece to see what the desired thickness would be for each piece. The reverse curve on the top back of the chair is what is giving it the extra tension for the lower back to take shape on the original design.
That was a lot of hard work and good work. It's nice to be reminded that even failed attempts can be helpful because they serve as a learning and educational experience and event.
You're my favourite builder on here. Thank you for all you do.
So awesome to hear. Thanks so much!
@@3x3CustomTamar Ever been to Cape Breton, Nova Scotia Canada?
I second that. You are my favorite builder on YT as well for one simple reason. You show that things don't always work first try and aren't scared to show that you are in fact human. Idk about anyone else, but anytime I've done a project it never goes exactly as planned whether it's a project that I thought would take an hour taking me all day or a piece just not fitting together right. Thanks for showing us the whole picture!
@@jerrydoodle3294 nope
@@Windiguana I’ve yet to build something that goes exactly as planned.....
I feel like this would work very well as a stool
You just make the first curve (the big one that supports the weight) a complete circle/oval
Then you add a latch where at the bottom to be able to diasasemble and role it up
Good idea!
Excellent video, very informative. You learn, so no failure. Thanks!
Glad you liked it!
How about drilling holes through the blocks so you can run a piece of wire through them like they do for folding screens. That way you would not need to worry about the webbing stretching out as all the pieces will be held together by the wire running through them. Plus it would hold it's shape pretty well although a lot of bending back and forth might stress it too much so steel cable might be a better option. Either way best of luck with your next attempt :)
Hey Tamar: how about running a steel cable, say 1/4" diameter, through the wood on each side. You could counterbore the first and last pieces to hide the crimps at the cable ends.
Yep ! I think that’s the way to go . Thin steel bike brake cable threaded though a drilled hole in each section, crimped at one end and adjustable fixing at the other. This would act similar to a human tendon ( tendons don’t have adjusters😂)
That was the idea i had, whrn si saw there was only feld. Tunnelling a wire or cord through the sections ist loads of work but would make it look like magic holds it...
It'll probably lose some foldability.
The top works in tension, the bottom in compression, cable in the middle would cut the lever action in half. It could work by making the whole thing thicker, you could maybe run the cable in upper 1/3?
Ohh I like this idea
I'm so glad this channel was recommended to me! Your attempt at this is nothing short of genius with how you worked around issues and hiccups. I genuinely hope you try to tackle this one again in the future!
Thanks! I will!
Could u thread a steel cable thru the pieces?
It looks sooo cool and the concept is great, I just hope you can get it working more effortlessly!
Kudos for talking about ways to improve and giving tips for future projects!
Forgive me if tons of people have already told you this, but if I may, have you considered 1). A harder wood that can handle a greater force per square inch as well as 2). incrementally changing the cut angles for each section, depending upon what you want the section of wood to do? I think your strap solution looks promising if combined with either a harder wood or a harder surface on the wood-mixed with a combination of cut angles. Also, you may consider 3). Connecting the wood to the straps in the seating position, possibly by making a form/jig to hold it in place, not as a flat surface, since it is giving it too much stretch when it begins as a flat surface. Great job, though. It’s truly inspiring.
Would love to see a second attempt going off what you've learned from this!
Fun fact: In Finnish; Uros means "male" and Mies means "man". "Male Life makes Manroller" was probably the manliest thing I've ever snarked at. That's all, carry on.
As soon as I saw the names of the designer and the chair I thought that this is some Finnish troll =D But wow nice work, didn't expect that to work at all
Uros is writen with š, it is Uroš and it is slavic name. To find out how to pronaunce letter š you can find this out on youtube really fast
@@Chakotay2222 yeah I know its not finnish, im just making a joke
I think that Mies is referring to Mies van der Rohe, as he designed many cantilever chairs which are still produced today
the world is an interesting place
I love the valiant effort and optimism despite the difficulty with this design, can't wait for your next videos ^^
Your persistence is inspiring!
☺️
I hope this doesn't come off weird or mean. It's really aspirational to see someone I respect and admire so much going through all the same feelings I get working on projects. Thanks for the post! Love your work.
I totally get it. We all have fails but it’s not always highlighted. It’s comforting to see you’re not the only one
Before you take it apart, try using shims (maybe craft sticks like tongue depressors) between the blocks at the back. That might help you prototype that part and home in on the correct angle.
Redthumb45. I thought exactly the same
Or leave the green tape...
Yup! One advantage to a 'failed' attempt is that you can use the pieces you made as the foundation for experimentation. They're already goofed up so what do you care if they look goofier after the next try?
@@michaelmcdermott2178 yes. Failed pieces and scrap lumber are good resources
Paint stir sticks would make handy shims if you can get a handful of them
Great effort and a lot of patience. Betting you could get it to work.
My respect for you not giving up. Awesome
You could try drilling two holes in the direction of the webbing and feed steel cables through the holes. Anchor at one end and then take the cable all the way through one set of holes and back through the other hole in the pieces on one side and repeat for the other side. Apply an amount of tension to these cables to achieve the desired shape and bounce. I really enjoy your videos and look forward to you putting them out.
This design may impede the ability to roll up the chair.
Yes. If fixed it would impede the roll up aspect. But if there was a way to loosen it and then tension it back up. That might work.
Looks nice. Tension might be set up by several ways. Check your bike axes for quick release help.
I thought of the exact same thing. Also, thought of cable tensioners (?) but I think that would take away the elegance of the design
interesting!
Well you tried, and won't give up. That's the spirit, beside that your not afraid to make mistakes.I admire that.
Can’t wait to try again 💪
I have great admiration for your perseverance and grit...and yes it definitely seems to have potential!
Wow. This is so cool. Thanks for uploading!
Glad you like it!
You didn't fail, you succeeded at finding what didn't work. This is all part of the process.
Lezgoo
*fail
Well thats what a fail basically is, fails are good
I LOVE that you posted it believing that you failed. I agree with Aiman Aiman in saying that you did it, and what you need now is to improve the degree of functionality. But I think it's so important that people online see that people that we look up to aren't always successful. This was a learning and creating process for you, and you walked away with a lot more knowledge than when you went in, so I totally think this was a success. :)
With social media nowadays, many influencers seem perfect and only show that side of their creations and life - and it can make it (woodworking, hobbies, life, anything) discouraging when that's all the viewers see while we are trying to learn and improve as well. I think it's super great of you to share this video where you are learning and experimenting because it makes it feel ok for me (and hopefully others) to do that too and just try things even if we don't end up succeeding right away. Thank you.
Love this
I’d for sure use metal hinges on each joint. Probably sunk flush into the wood slats. Then cover with thin, comfy material.
Also, CONGRATS on the fail!
*it wasn’t a failure
You did so well! Loved the energy in this video. Don't give up!!
Glad you like it!