TINFOIL THEORY Dead Draeden don't die....they break down into lesser creatures. The point at which we considered them "dead" is actually just the point at which their regeneration cannot rebuild the body as a whole, but it does not stop trying. Every cell in their body tries to become its own being, creating a internal bio-diversification event that would be tantamount to setting off the RNA world, the Ediacaran period, and the Cambrian Explosion all at once. Clumps of these independent cellular beings rapidly begin combining and forming new, more advanced forms of life, eventually creating the proto-forms of things we would now recognize as Beholders, Grell, Oozes, possibly the pre-existential behemoths like the Kraken and Tarrasque, and perhaps even Illithids. Its possible that each of the creatures made this way are representative of specific organs or tissues from the Draeden. I could see how their eyes could become Beholders, their blood, bile, and lymph becoming the Oozes, their stomachs becoming the Astral Dreadnoughts, and their brains becoming the Illithid, and, as AJ suggested, things like the Grell could have been part of their immune response, suggesting that the capacity for life to evolve inside a Draeden exited even before death.(Although to me the Grell look like a nerve cell that grew a beak)
Can I expand on this with you own tinfoil theory..? The phlogiston is actually the inside of Tharizduns prison. That means the crystal barrier of a crystal sphere is where the phlogiston has been pulled back and crystallised to create a gap in which a plane can exist. Explain why gods fear it and divine magic has no effect.
Here’s an interesting bit of optional lore for you: The Yochlol handmaidens of Lolth aren’t her loyal priestesses. The Draeden she has access to in the demonweb pits takes her loyal priestesses to consume and creates the yochlol, telling her that the yochlol are totally loyal to her, which they aren’t. Lolth has been feeding it for millennia and surrounding herself with beings loyal to the Draeden, not her. That’s why the yochlol aren’t forbidden from the prime material unless summoned, as demons are. The Draeden will eventually consume Lolth as well as all of the demonweb pits, before beginning to consume all of the abyss. The only way to prevent it is to move the Draeden to the Astral, where it will hibernate for all of eternity as a form of dead god. As long as Lolth hides the existence of the Draeden, the danger will never be known. Her own lust for power will someday be her downfall for a second time, only there won’t be a third. If the Draeden can swallow the shard of evil that caused the abyss to grow into infinite planes, it will create infinite planes from its own being. It became mired in the abyssal layers around the demonweb trying to get to the shard of evil when the abyss was forming. It will bargain with any being to get that shard of evil, which is why it has been so helpful to Lolth. It will convince PCs that they need to bring the Shard to it to destroy Lolth, which it will indeed do, in addition to destroying the outer planes and countless prime material world. Tharizdun is not the only world-destroying thing out there.
Yeah, I like your "conjecture" parts better than the official lore. It actually makes a lot more sense that what's cannon the majority of the time. The lore on the Raven Queen had never made any sense at all to me, but your "conjecturing" in that video sorted out that jumbled mess quite nicely. Keep up the good work, Sir. 😁
@@AJPickett Your unified interpretation of the D&D multiverse has been a huge influence on my own interpretation of the setting. Really love your work.
The beings trapped in the walls of the plane of ice are thought to perhaps be Draeden as well; and ‘the great maw’ on the map of Spelljammer charts (far from any flow paths) is said to be one; or perhaps just damage they did to reality in their struggles Draeden predate any of the active forces of great wheel cosmology; way way predating things that we call gods (which are different than the immortals they did battle with at the dawn of the cosmology; predated perhaps only by beings from timeless places (far realm, temporal prime, other cosmologies); and arguably the LeShay (who came from the cosmology that predates the great wheel but in the same ‘spot’... that maybe the Draeden are?)
Fantastic video aj! You are the bane of Vecna! Also could you do a video on Anguiliians? I found out recently that Sahuagin came from them, after they got screwed by elves and destroyed their civilization. (Like always)
I want Lolth to unleash Draeden on the Prime Material and then the epic-level adventurers convince a constellate to fight the horrible thing. Cosmic devouring brain versus animate spirit of multiple star systems! XD
Great idea for a Great Old One warlock pact, if some mortal was suddenly made to be aware of one of these beings and be given a glimpse what their existence even means
This Draeden video wasn't the one I knew I needed, but the creativity is flowing now. Thanks for opening more doors AJ! Can't wait for the Spell Weavers update!
As a guy who was into AD&D since forever and a day, adapted the D&D Immortals boxed set into my own homebrew campaign of divine ascension and the struggles, I now see what inspired my Loom Dragons... the Draeden. My campaign universe's first sentient beings were humanoids that evolved on the Loom Dragons' bodies before they created the Loom of Magus as their spherical galaxy with many of the life-friendly planets having them live upon those. Before they created Loom of Magus, two of those dragons spun off to create the reality the Loom Dragons boomed into. The story of Asmodeus actually fits well with my Loom of Magus creation story too. In Loom of Magus, planets are mere dust dots in any universe of the multiverse.
is swear AJ you are a wizard who scrys me whever i talk to my friends about an obscure D&D monster, this is the second time you post a video the day after i talk about one, the last time being the aurumvorax
Fun fact, you can measure the individual ages of every demon lord by seeing how long they stop dead in their tracks for after so much as hearing the name “Therisdun”.
In 5e there isn’t much evidence that Tharzidun is the cosmology-level threat he was in the last edition... one messily pantheon of Gods manages to lock him away after all; and since he originated as a God (albeit a notably powerful one); lots of stuff predates him significantly
@@tylerannand3777 As far as I can tell, Therisdun was basically Azathoth but actively malevolent as opposed to merely ignorant before being broken by the queen of chaos. He predates Ao, the overgod of the D&D universe.
@@purplehaze2358 sounds like how 4e reframed him, yes. AO is only the Overgod of Aber-Toril; not the entire great wheel. How old he is is... questionable; overpowers seem to be (indirect) servants of the Eldest Ones that created all cosmologies (including the Great Wheel)... but it is not certain, way beyond mortal ken. Very little relation to Gods as recognized in the modern era, which are also separate than the immortals that fought the Draeden.
That could happen in critical role. Sure the Mighty Nein stopped one cult of Tharzidun, but ever since Beau and Caleb looked into the book that Lucien had the Somnovem aka Tharzidun has been marking them with strange eyes.
That scenario of Tharizdun escaping his prison. Man. Basically anything that's not a god is gone without a trace. Imagine running on through that. The player characters would basically be powers in their own right at that point, and the NPCs and encounters would all just be other gods.
Therz'dun is inevitable. He is older and more Powerful than AO. And anyone who glimpses his coming is sure to slide towards gibbering, suicidal madness. The madness of knowing.
Tharzidun is on entirely different power hierarchy than AO; and even if he is stronger (arguable, and their powers manifest in different arenas) AOs boss... or maybe his boss’ boss... laugh at anyone who can’t even manage to kick over one of their sandcastles
This opens up so many possibilities. Thanks, AJ. Love the idea about the grell and other such horrors being parasites from other, more massive abominations.
Weird thought. In the apocalyptic scenario posed at the start, hypothetically could a world like Athas be used as a bulwark against the madness, with the grey prison cutting it off from the astral sea and phlogiston then be used as a form of planetary/sphere system defence barrier
Its quick. But you mention at the beginning that the undead would be destroyed alongside the world if the far realm took over. I love making undead the way youve described them. A tax on the universe that inherently brings its heat death. But even the worst undead could be allies against the destruction of all reality
Well, many would be inapplicable, for example, armor class and hit points would only apply to the immediate area damage occurs, other than that, the mental stats are all god-like, a Draeden is capable of hosting multiple independent personalities of genius level intellect and can observe and interact with multiple locations on multiple dimensions simultaneously, they are also capable of interacting in a higher dimensional state where past and future events are more like locations they can view and interact with simultaneously.
@AJPickett I was suprised to hear a hit point total at all, even a completely absurd number like 4.2 million. Makes me wonder what the hit points for other absurdly large creatures like Stellar Dragons, Uvodank, Atropus & Constellates are
Could these things tie into the origins of the Yugoloths? as those were apparently souls from a multiverse predating the current d&d multiverse and seem similarly passive in their plan to establish themselves as the best fiends in existence.
Regarding Neth, the Plane that Lives: If they are a Draeden, Are they pretending to not know the Multiverse outside themselves or have they been stuck in the Astral Plane for so long they're actually unaware?
@@AJPickett Maybe have it so that, in the event of Tharizdun awakening, Neth acts as the last shelter for Reality. Or make a campaign setting where that's already the case...
@@llewelynshingler2173 Isn't there an elder evil who is dreaming reality and if it ever wakes up existance blinks into nothing? It sounds connected to this line of thinking.
Wild tangent: Are the crystal spheres formed when a draeden finds itself in the philogiston. It form a cyst around itself as protection until it can transport itself back to the outer planes?
What if it was a legendary spell that was once more commonplace in a previous version of the D&D Multiverse? So yes, the Draeden and a few other primal beings still know its secrets?
I have read fan theories about the inverse, that the phlogiston is the domain of the Draeden and the crystal spheres were created to secure god- and mortalkind
How did Vecna get tasked with keeping the secret of Tharazdun? Does anyone know what video he answers this question? I didn't find it in his video on Vecna.
@@AJPickett I will take it. While I dive into the lore to see why other gods of secrets and forbidden knowledge before him didn't take up the mantle. Edited because autocorret
@@brettonalwood4173 a likely reason why others wisely passed is self preservation. Having to balance godly duties ontop of repelling attacks from end of the world fanatics
It's funny I just watched a recommended video before this one about the largest black hole discovered so far and compared to these things they are just specs on a spec. When our sun is smaller then a pixel on your screen compared to that black hole puts things into perspective how our minds can't process scales like that even in our fantasy works.
Hail Tharizdun! Great video. By the way, any lore on why Mephistopheles changed colors from bluish black to red? Tharizdun is amazing and I love any and all lore on Him and His Doom Dreamers.
@@AJPickett I always thought of him as stronger with the bluish color due to the link with the color in Dante and then there are the tieflings of the same color versus the more common red. I would think the more uniform the less powerful because greater will, and thus power, sets one apart from the masses.
I'm not usually around to post this early do to the time zone difference between New Zeeland and Canada but today my insomnia works for me. I am always in the mood for a little elder god horror looking forward to thisa vid.
If Tharizdun was released, why would psionics and magic stop working? I get that he's a powerful entity but as i understand it, he's not omnipotent. Plus if madness takes over the multiverse how would psionics NOT be involved?
It wouldn't just be psionics and magic that stop working. All of reality, the entire wheel of the planes would stop turning. Even if psionics still worked there would be no sane minds left to use it.
Canonical lore states that the far realm is the reason psionics exists... It's sketchy, but it's in print. THARIZDUN is the most powerful mind, he simple broadcasts telepathy so strong on psionic wavelengths, mortals can't concentrate on psionics or spells... He is a mental EMP bomb.
considering the form of the Ilithids, I could see them also being created by the Draeden (or something like that) as the original colossal Elder Brain. it'd be funny if Elder brains were the 1st larval stage of a Draeden, & it'd be very ironic to see Dragons helping the Gith fight against baby Draeden larvae.
So they are like the eldrich terrors. Personally, I like to think of them as cosmic composters. The sleep until it is time to consume and digest reality and form it anew. Fun fact: the term "Draeden" is middle english meaning dread.
The size doesn't make sense. Maybe I just missed something, but at various points they're described as incomprehensibly vast, galaxy-sized things that just straight up eat anything smaller than a planet, yet they're only about 20 or so miles long including the nodes? Is everyone and everything else in the D&D multiverse just incredibly tiny or did I miss something?
Both. Neither. These are things that existed before creation. They are almost as alien as Obyrinth and certainly just as capable of manipulating reality as any god. They just don't make sense. Is their true form an actual form, or just another representation those with higher mental fortitude can percieve? What is size to a being that predates gods?
Galaxy-sized would mean that even planets are incomprehensibly tiny even in comparison to one of their feeder tube mouths...hell, since Crystal Spheres are essentially the size of a solar system, they could swallow whole Crystal Spheres at that size. But the guy above me is right, 20 mile wide central body & 1000 mile wide mouth is subjective, considering this is an eldritch Abomination that's not really confined by rules of reality like the subjective distance between two points
Question:can a overgod like ao stop a draeden? Does the luminous being let things like this exist beyond the overgods to exist? Many questions, few answers
I don’t think an overpower would stop it if they could, their powers and rules of operation seem pretty confined and not always geared to protecting their worlds from external threats Their bosses... they created the great wheel on a whim, and could care less if it was destroyed (especially if it was fun to watch the process); but would annihilate them if they became a pest or went poking where they shouldn’t
Probably could if given orders to by their master (the dm). Literally deus ex machina, construct a mcguffin and/or promote a chosen one to god among gods to fight it. If the dm directed Ao to do so that is meaning the dm would need a reason to care about stopping the board wipe of their world.
I think the Dreadnoughts have canonical origins with THARIZDUN. Draeden are more like the rats that live on a construction site, or termites that consume a dead tree.
their backstory of being older then the gods with some conflict between the 2 and such reminds me of the aboleths wonder if their is a connection between the 2 and which species is older which source can you get the stats from for these things?
The question "which is older" doesn't make sense. The points in time when they originated don't exist in the past of the current time/space. Effect can actually preceed cause, the universe they came from may not exist _yet_ . Confused? Multiverse theory gives me a headache as well.
Aboleth are younger; the Prime existed (albeit mostly empty) by the time they appeared... Draeden predate almost everything and definitely are older than the prime
What sort of person(or deity) would go looking for the home plane of such nigh-invulnerable monstrosities? Perhaps Alienist in their mad search for more information of the outer planes and a deeper connection to the Far Realm.
Anyone who knows about it might be forced to help it, or oppose it. Look up Roco's basilisk, it's a thought experiment about artificial inteligence, but it works just as well for this imo.
Omg! A Tharizdun video! Pretty sure I’ve commented on every video that mentions him. As well as my plot hook comments... I was under the impression Tharizdun himself created the 333 gems as his final F.U to the gods that imprisoned him. Each containing a fragment of his essence so he could be freed should enough gems be brought into close proximity... 333 is his holy number And that there was a different number of seals (🦭🦭??? Can we free him if we go clubbing? Ibiza here we come!! Sorry tangent) on his prison. Who says no one what’s the gems found?
Great video oh Lore Master of Many. So question, the Dreaden fully powered can wipe dimensions out with a thought basically, could a weaken and scared Dreaden be then killed by mortal heros?
If any movie producers are watching... The World Of Dungeons And Dragons would make a great LOTR style movie trilogy of trilogies Trilogy 1: Dungeon Master and his 2 children get stuck in the FR care of the amusement park ride. Then the issues with Kaylia and Venger happen Trilogy 2: the group of kids come into play Trilogy3: after DM, Venger, and Kaylia leave
Other people watch cat videos to warm their hearts, I watch lore videos of unfathomable horrors. It’s no wonder the knowledge of such creatures brings madness. But If I’m being honest, I’ll be one of those foolish adventurers trying to uncover secrets best left forgotten. Just pray to Mystra and hope she snatches my soul before some elder ooze does.
I know that draeden historic accounts are mirky at best but are there any accounts of draeden coming into conflict with the abolithes? I mean the abolith have transcendent memory of the multiverse being reset & altered everytime. So it stands to reason that they were likely here before the multiverse began. And neither the draeden or the abolith seem the type to share power.
Considering they predate the Dawn War... I think one plus it's underlings (which could be anything up to and including Demon lords) would be more that enough to worry a pantheon.
I don’t understand how you would perceive something like that as a dragon. Unless you are only conversing with it and can only see one of the tendrils or something.
@@AJPickett You mean not rationalize things, because from how it sounds you could end up with a few screws loose in the head. Unless you are a Warforged then you might literally have some screws loose in your head.
0.) Been a bit caught up with real life recently, and have been missing a number of your videos. Do you still answer comments/questions on old videos, or is that too much to keep up with for someone with your channels library? 1.) For the Therisdune released scenario, does he only care about the prime material plane, or were those being destroyed as well, just they are not where most of the interesting stuff happens? 2.) Why would psionics not work? Aren't those simply inate to creatures, and if anything work great with the far realm? 3.) Video on Neth: the living plane? 4.) What was the reordering of the cosmos? 5.) Wait, the prim material plane and dragons existed before the inner planes? I now the Outer planes (maybe with the exception of the astral plane) came after since they were created by believe, but if they formed before the inner planes then where did the material come from? 6.) Do draeden count as primordials? 7.) Do they reproduce that we know of? 8.) Does that mean IO/Asgorath might be a primordial, draeden, dragon god? 9.) Do you think these things act as warlock patrons?
0.) Yes I do. 1.) He will remake everything, the prime, the outer and inner planes, everything. 2.) Psionics is tied into some fundamental effect the incursion of the Far Realm has had on the prime material plane. 3.) Currently not on my to-do list. 4.) Cosmic wheel, the world tree axis, etc... before that, there was an attempt by a god named Erathis to recreate a unified upper plane... the multiverse is in a state of flux. 5.) Primal powers can create matter out of literally nothing... our whole universe is literally made of nothing at all.. it is a zero-sum. If there is nothing, something pops into existence to take its place, this just is the way it is, universes are self-generating. 6.) No. 7.) We think they do, we are not sure. 8.) Unlikely. 9.) Anything is possible.
I like to think of the earlier lifeforms on our own world, having great periods of rule and expansion in the other planes of existence. All life having their own forms of consciousness and awareness. Each major branch of life here, have likewise periods of dominance mirroring elsewhere.
Request for Yellow Musk Creepers? A part of my homebrew campaign that I plan on making has a Circle of Spores clan worshipping the flower, in particular an Ancient Yellow Musk Creeper variant (modified Corpse Flower CR8).
@@AJPickett The carnivorous plants one? (Haven't watched that one yet.) I saw the homebrew one that looks like a lily with teeth. (That "polymorphs" into other creatures.)
Heavily reminded of the Mystery Flesh Pit National Park story AKA Permian Basin Super-Organism. What if a dormant draeden were discovered slumbering beneath the surface of a prime material world? The humans, of course, add a gift shop and charge for admission.
EXCELLENT Presentation! 👍👏👍👏👍👏👍👏👍👏really did these creatures justice, bringing them to life & expanding greatly on their lore! 😁 🌟 G O L D S T A R ! ! ! 🌟
TINFOIL THEORY
Dead Draeden don't die....they break down into lesser creatures.
The point at which we considered them "dead" is actually just the point at which their regeneration cannot rebuild the body as a whole, but it does not stop trying. Every cell in their body tries to become its own being, creating a internal bio-diversification event that would be tantamount to setting off the RNA world, the Ediacaran period, and the Cambrian Explosion all at once. Clumps of these independent cellular beings rapidly begin combining and forming new, more advanced forms of life, eventually creating the proto-forms of things we would now recognize as Beholders, Grell, Oozes, possibly the pre-existential behemoths like the Kraken and Tarrasque, and perhaps even Illithids.
Its possible that each of the creatures made this way are representative of specific organs or tissues from the Draeden. I could see how their eyes could become Beholders, their blood, bile, and lymph becoming the Oozes, their stomachs becoming the Astral Dreadnoughts, and their brains becoming the Illithid, and, as AJ suggested, things like the Grell could have been part of their immune response, suggesting that the capacity for life to evolve inside a Draeden exited even before death.(Although to me the Grell look like a nerve cell that grew a beak)
That is incredible and if I ever use these things I'm definitely using this.
Now we're talkin!
@@AJPickett Like I said in another comment, I don Tinfoil Platemail.
🤯🤯🤯
Can I expand on this with you own tinfoil theory..?
The phlogiston is actually the inside of Tharizduns prison.
That means the crystal barrier of a crystal sphere is where the phlogiston has been pulled back and crystallised to create a gap in which a plane can exist.
Explain why gods fear it and divine magic has no effect.
AJ: “Imagine that Tharizdun escapes”
Me: *closes eyes*
Here’s an interesting bit of optional lore for you:
The Yochlol handmaidens of Lolth aren’t her loyal priestesses. The Draeden she has access to in the demonweb pits takes her loyal priestesses to consume and creates the yochlol, telling her that the yochlol are totally loyal to her, which they aren’t. Lolth has been feeding it for millennia and surrounding herself with beings loyal to the Draeden, not her. That’s why the yochlol aren’t forbidden from the prime material unless summoned, as demons are.
The Draeden will eventually consume Lolth as well as all of the demonweb pits, before beginning to consume all of the abyss. The only way to prevent it is to move the Draeden to the Astral, where it will hibernate for all of eternity as a form of dead god. As long as Lolth hides the existence of the Draeden, the danger will never be known. Her own lust for power will someday be her downfall for a second time, only there won’t be a third.
If the Draeden can swallow the shard of evil that caused the abyss to grow into infinite planes, it will create infinite planes from its own being. It became mired in the abyssal layers around the demonweb trying to get to the shard of evil when the abyss was forming. It will bargain with any being to get that shard of evil, which is why it has been so helpful to Lolth. It will convince PCs that they need to bring the Shard to it to destroy Lolth, which it will indeed do, in addition to destroying the outer planes and countless prime material world.
Tharizdun is not the only world-destroying thing out there.
Yeah, I like your "conjecture" parts better than the official lore. It actually makes a lot more sense that what's cannon the majority of the time. The lore on the Raven Queen had never made any sense at all to me, but your "conjecturing" in that video sorted out that jumbled mess quite nicely. Keep up the good work, Sir. 😁
My conjecturing gets a little better each year as I fill my head with more and more source books :)
I've said it before and I'll probably say it again. They should just put AJ on the payroll.
@@AJPickett Your unified interpretation of the D&D multiverse has been a huge influence on my own interpretation of the setting. Really love your work.
@@Zasek2112 I currently have no desire to work for Wizards of the Coast, but, never say never,
@@AJPickett I'm only half serious, I understand not wanting a boss. The least they could do is give you a cheese budget for the live shows 🤣🤣🤣.
The reflect spells and regen and the maw of the one breathing fire on the earth...reminds me greatly of the terrasque
. . . Worst episode of Magic School bus ever
It left magic, and came back special.
LOL!
I literally can't even imagine what a cross over like that would look like.
"Miss Fizzle? I think we just freed the Mad God..."
"Very good, Class. Now lets watch the planes burn."
At my old school, we never ended life as we know it in the universe
These would make a perfect stand-in for the Ogdru Jahad in a Hellboy setting
That’s an awesome idea
The beings trapped in the walls of the plane of ice are thought to perhaps be Draeden as well; and ‘the great maw’ on the map of Spelljammer charts (far from any flow paths) is said to be one; or perhaps just damage they did to reality in their struggles
Draeden predate any of the active forces of great wheel cosmology; way way predating things that we call gods (which are different than the immortals they did battle with at the dawn of the cosmology; predated perhaps only by beings from timeless places (far realm, temporal prime, other cosmologies); and arguably the LeShay (who came from the cosmology that predates the great wheel but in the same ‘spot’... that maybe the Draeden are?)
Fantastic video aj! You are the bane of Vecna!
Also could you do a video on Anguiliians? I found out recently that Sahuagin came from them, after they got screwed by elves and destroyed their civilization. (Like always)
I want Lolth to unleash Draeden on the Prime Material and then the epic-level adventurers convince a constellate to fight the horrible thing. Cosmic devouring brain versus animate spirit of multiple star systems! XD
I think you're over estimating Lolth. I think it's just as likely she's the underling in that relationship.
@@Zasek2112 I thinh she as divine rank 10 around those times so most likely
@@lorekeeper685 Divine rank... pfff, so what. These things have been around since before she was a half formed idea.
Great idea for a Great Old One warlock pact, if some mortal was suddenly made to be aware of one of these beings and be given a glimpse what their existence even means
Seems there's far more questions than answers with these lads.
This Draeden video wasn't the one I knew I needed, but the creativity is flowing now. Thanks for opening more doors AJ! Can't wait for the Spell Weavers update!
13:05
What is this footage? Half-cooked cinnamon rolls under a weak microscope?
very close, yes.
As a guy who was into AD&D since forever and a day, adapted the D&D Immortals boxed set into my own homebrew campaign of divine ascension and the struggles, I now see what inspired my Loom Dragons... the Draeden. My campaign universe's first sentient beings were humanoids that evolved on the Loom Dragons' bodies before they created the Loom of Magus as their spherical galaxy with many of the life-friendly planets having them live upon those. Before they created Loom of Magus, two of those dragons spun off to create the reality the Loom Dragons boomed into. The story of Asmodeus actually fits well with my Loom of Magus creation story too. In Loom of Magus, planets are mere dust dots in any universe of the multiverse.
is swear AJ you are a wizard who scrys me whever i talk to my friends about an obscure D&D monster, this is the second time you post a video the day after i talk about one, the last time being the aurumvorax
It's what I do.
I love how your vids are a genuine source of amazing D&D knowledge. I had no idea these critters exist! So many possibilities... *crazed DM laugh*
Fun fact, you can measure the individual ages of every demon lord by seeing how long they stop dead in their tracks for after so much as hearing the name “Therisdun”.
I mean... outside of 4e lore a bunch of the demons outdate him significantly
@@tylerannand3777 This channel is mostly focused on 5E.
In 5e there isn’t much evidence that Tharzidun is the cosmology-level threat he was in the last edition... one messily pantheon of Gods manages to lock him away after all; and since he originated as a God (albeit a notably powerful one); lots of stuff predates him significantly
@@tylerannand3777 As far as I can tell, Therisdun was basically Azathoth but actively malevolent as opposed to merely ignorant before being broken by the queen of chaos. He predates Ao, the overgod of the D&D universe.
@@purplehaze2358 sounds like how 4e reframed him, yes.
AO is only the Overgod of Aber-Toril; not the entire great wheel. How old he is is... questionable; overpowers seem to be (indirect) servants of the Eldest Ones that created all cosmologies (including the Great Wheel)... but it is not certain, way beyond mortal ken. Very little relation to Gods as recognized in the modern era, which are also separate than the immortals that fought the Draeden.
You released Tharizdun?!?
Party: Oops?
"Oops" - the famous last word uttered by many a unlucky adventurer, in fantasy or real life. 😄
That could happen in critical role. Sure the Mighty Nein stopped one cult of Tharzidun, but ever since Beau and Caleb looked into the book that Lucien had the Somnovem aka Tharzidun has been marking them with strange eyes.
@@zenvariety9383 it’s all fun and games until someone unleashes the eye
I love the shot of raw marinated Barbecue chicken randomly thrown in there to represent the Draeden lol
That scenario of Tharizdun escaping his prison. Man. Basically anything that's not a god is gone without a trace. Imagine running on through that. The player characters would basically be powers in their own right at that point, and the NPCs and encounters would all just be other gods.
Only thing is every god would end up losing power and dying. With no mortals to pray to them and sustaine them they would all die
There is an escape plan for the powers of the upper and lower planes.
@@AJPickett Those unverified portals on the 7th layer of Mount Celestia and at the deepest point of Malsheem in Nessus, perhaps?
@@JanusKastin very good grasshopper!
It’s a big cosmology, it wouldn’t be the cakewalk his worshipers imagine... and even if he succeeds, plenty of ‘places’ outside the Great Wheel
Wondered why I was awake at this hour.
Now I know.
You too, eh?
Tharizdun calls, the sleepers must awaken.
It is this kind of lore that makes me laugh at DMs who say "Gods are completely invulnerable."
Once again, cosimic horror runs rampant while the Constellates are too busy screwing around on their phones to even pretend to notice.
Do you think you could build a city in a Draedens? Also would a Draeden talk with a mortal? Could you become friends with one?
I'm not here to discount possible scenarios 😎
unlikely
Cities? Why not. Talk to mortals? Well, warlock pacts, so I guess so. Become friends with one? Lol, no. Never, you are a thrall, nothing more.
I do so love watching the automatic closed caption losing its mind
Theris dune
Theros tunes
There's doom
😂😂😂
This could be like the worldest coolest campaign setting
This is great, my party is currently trying to stop therisdun in my campaign and I’ve got a character who can see the future.
Is it really the future? Or just a dream projected into their head?
Therz'dun is inevitable. He is older and more Powerful than AO. And anyone who glimpses his coming is sure to slide towards gibbering, suicidal madness. The madness of knowing.
Tharzidun is on entirely different power hierarchy than AO; and even if he is stronger (arguable, and their powers manifest in different arenas) AOs boss... or maybe his boss’ boss... laugh at anyone who can’t even manage to kick over one of their sandcastles
@@tylerannand3777 you scoff at goings-on that you cannot even fathom
The eldest beings think it is hilarious that you think so, keep it up
This made my morning drive to work so much better! Great work as always and thanks!
Wait you can drive to work rn? Lol
@@basicallyafk7494 lol. Fortunately where I am hasn’t been too frosty unlike other parts of the state I’m in. I hope all’s well in your area!
11:52 That seems to be based on a rather infamous picture of a hydrothermal worm.
I thought that 'beak' was familiar...
Thought that it was a tardigrate!
I can only imagine a Draeden encountering a Constellate.
That what I said back in constellate video.
This opens up so many possibilities. Thanks, AJ.
Love the idea about the grell and other such horrors being parasites from other, more massive abominations.
More please. Always nice to have a theme of the week creature thrown out for each session
Weird thought. In the apocalyptic scenario posed at the start, hypothetically could a world like Athas be used as a bulwark against the madness, with the grey prison cutting it off from the astral sea and phlogiston then be used as a form of planetary/sphere system defence barrier
Sounds like an interesting scenario.
My initial thought is no, but the best thing about D&D is that anything is possible
With such epic settings and stories and dangers, its a wonder why adventures even walk out their front doors? Oh I know! BROTHER GOTTA GET PAID!
Its quick. But you mention at the beginning that the undead would be destroyed alongside the world if the far realm took over. I love making undead the way youve described them. A tax on the universe that inherently brings its heat death. But even the worst undead could be allies against the destruction of all reality
I love making villains the optimal allies against a bigger threat.
-spit take at that thought experiment in the beginning- Bloody hell.
What a pleasant surprise to wake up to.
if you'd had a reason to give a draeden stats, what would it be?
Well, many would be inapplicable, for example, armor class and hit points would only apply to the immediate area damage occurs, other than that, the mental stats are all god-like, a Draeden is capable of hosting multiple independent personalities of genius level intellect and can observe and interact with multiple locations on multiple dimensions simultaneously, they are also capable of interacting in a higher dimensional state where past and future events are more like locations they can view and interact with simultaneously.
@@AJPickett hmmm, interesting... Thank ya AJ have a good one ^^)/
@AJPickett I was suprised to hear a hit point total at all, even a completely absurd number like 4.2 million. Makes me wonder what the hit points for other absurdly large creatures like Stellar Dragons, Uvodank, Atropus & Constellates are
Are the Gith what would happen if humans Orcs And elves all interbreed over a long period of time. I got to go watch that other video love the channel
This is sweet. I never heard about these things. Love the abyss and anything related. Thanks duder
Could these things tie into the origins of the Yugoloths? as those were apparently souls from a multiverse predating the current d&d multiverse and seem similarly passive in their plan to establish themselves as the best fiends in existence.
Hmm could be, we don't know the details of what the night hags did,. So yeah.
Regarding Neth, the Plane that Lives: If they are a Draeden, Are they pretending to not know the Multiverse outside themselves or have they been stuck in the Astral Plane for so long they're actually unaware?
Good questions... I have no idea, but I can imagine an adventure to find out would be a lot of fun.
@@AJPickett Maybe have it so that, in the event of Tharizdun awakening, Neth acts as the last shelter for Reality. Or make a campaign setting where that's already the case...
@@llewelynshingler2173 Isn't there an elder evil who is dreaming reality and if it ever wakes up existance blinks into nothing? It sounds connected to this line of thinking.
@@Zasek2112 Yeah, Tharizdun is like the D&D version of HP Lovecraft's Azathoth.
Wild tangent: Are the crystal spheres formed when a draeden finds itself in the philogiston. It form a cyst around itself as protection until it can transport itself back to the outer planes?
What if it was a legendary spell that was once more commonplace in a previous version of the D&D Multiverse? So yes, the Draeden and a few other primal beings still know its secrets?
I have read fan theories about the inverse, that the phlogiston is the domain of the Draeden and the crystal spheres were created to secure god- and mortalkind
I would like to see....
The Ecology of the Dragon Horse. I found the Kirin. Good one indeed.
Tardigrade ohh man i wonder what adaptions they'd have living in this
How did Vecna get tasked with keeping the secret of Tharazdun? Does anyone know what video he answers this question? I didn't find it in his video on Vecna.
He is god of dark secrets, I think this qualifies.
@@AJPickett I will take it. While I dive into the lore to see why other gods of secrets and forbidden knowledge before him didn't take up the mantle.
Edited because autocorret
@@brettonalwood4173 a likely reason why others wisely passed is self preservation. Having to balance godly duties ontop of repelling attacks from end of the world fanatics
It's funny I just watched a recommended video before this one about the largest black hole discovered so far and compared to these things they are just specs on a spec. When our sun is smaller then a pixel on your screen compared to that black hole puts things into perspective how our minds can't process scales like that even in our fantasy works.
Hail Tharizdun! Great video. By the way, any lore on why Mephistopheles changed colors from bluish black to red? Tharizdun is amazing and I love any and all lore on Him and His Doom Dreamers.
Mephistopheles is involved in a LOT of mad science, so, perhaps there is some innovative, sneaky reason behind the new look?
@@AJPickett I always thought of him as stronger with the bluish color due to the link with the color in Dante and then there are the tieflings of the same color versus the more common red. I would think the more uniform the less powerful because greater will, and thus power, sets one apart from the masses.
I'm not usually around to post this early do to the time zone difference between New Zeeland and Canada but today my insomnia works for me. I am always in the mood for a little elder god horror looking forward to thisa vid.
If Tharizdun was released, why would psionics and magic stop working? I get that he's a powerful entity but as i understand it, he's not omnipotent. Plus if madness takes over the multiverse how would psionics NOT be involved?
It wouldn't just be psionics and magic that stop working. All of reality, the entire wheel of the planes would stop turning. Even if psionics still worked there would be no sane minds left to use it.
Canonical lore states that the far realm is the reason psionics exists... It's sketchy, but it's in print. THARIZDUN is the most powerful mind, he simple broadcasts telepathy so strong on psionic wavelengths, mortals can't concentrate on psionics or spells... He is a mental EMP bomb.
I just learned about these creatures about a week ago and was so mad that no one had made a video on these creatures
considering the form of the Ilithids, I could see them also being created by the Draeden (or something like that) as the original colossal Elder Brain. it'd be funny if Elder brains were the 1st larval stage of a Draeden, & it'd be very ironic to see Dragons helping the Gith fight against baby Draeden larvae.
So they are like the eldrich terrors. Personally, I like to think of them as cosmic composters. The sleep until it is time to consume and digest reality and form it anew.
Fun fact: the term "Draeden" is middle english meaning dread.
The size doesn't make sense. Maybe I just missed something, but at various points they're described as incomprehensibly vast, galaxy-sized things that just straight up eat anything smaller than a planet, yet they're only about 20 or so miles long including the nodes? Is everyone and everything else in the D&D multiverse just incredibly tiny or did I miss something?
Both. Neither. These are things that existed before creation. They are almost as alien as Obyrinth and certainly just as capable of manipulating reality as any god. They just don't make sense. Is their true form an actual form, or just another representation those with higher mental fortitude can percieve? What is size to a being that predates gods?
Galaxy-sized would mean that even planets are incomprehensibly tiny even in comparison to one of their feeder tube mouths...hell, since Crystal Spheres are essentially the size of a solar system, they could swallow whole Crystal Spheres at that size. But the guy above me is right, 20 mile wide central body & 1000 mile wide mouth is subjective, considering this is an eldritch Abomination that's not really confined by rules of reality like the subjective distance between two points
can two Draeden meld into a new form for combat
Only in situations where reality is not fully established.
id love to hear more about those immortal level character adventures shit sounds badass
It was challenging to run in practice
Question:can a overgod like ao stop a draeden?
Does the luminous being let things like this exist beyond the overgods to exist?
Many questions, few answers
I don’t think an overpower would stop it if they could, their powers and rules of operation seem pretty confined and not always geared to protecting their worlds from external threats
Their bosses... they created the great wheel on a whim, and could care less if it was destroyed (especially if it was fun to watch the process); but would annihilate them if they became a pest or went poking where they shouldn’t
Probably could if given orders to by their master (the dm). Literally deus ex machina, construct a mcguffin and/or promote a chosen one to god among gods to fight it. If the dm directed Ao to do so that is meaning the dm would need a reason to care about stopping the board wipe of their world.
The act of creation _is_ how you stop a Draeden.
Tharizdun is trapped within his demiplane.
The Draeden are trapped within the universe.
Is there any kind of connection between these and Astral Dreadnoughts? I know you've mentioned the Dreadnoughts having potential ties to Tharizdun.
I think the Dreadnoughts have canonical origins with THARIZDUN. Draeden are more like the rats that live on a construction site, or termites that consume a dead tree.
4e Dreadnaught are tied to Tharzidun, before that they were mysterious, 5e ties them to beholders I think
Dnd have most absurd levels of power that player characters werent supposed to achieve
Exactly. Even to the gods:
"There's always a bigger fish."
Great content as always.
their backstory of being older then the gods with some conflict between the 2 and such reminds me of the aboleths wonder if their is a connection between the 2 and which species is older
which source can you get the stats from for these things?
The stats are just a fun theoretical exercise, for example, how many hit points does the planet Toril have?
The question "which is older" doesn't make sense. The points in time when they originated don't exist in the past of the current time/space. Effect can actually preceed cause, the universe they came from may not exist _yet_ . Confused? Multiverse theory gives me a headache as well.
@@AJPickett a ok that makes sense given things that have fought the gods for similar reasons as to why most gods aren't given stats
Aboleth are younger; the Prime existed (albeit mostly empty) by the time they appeared... Draeden predate almost everything and definitely are older than the prime
What sort of person(or deity) would go looking for the home plane of such nigh-invulnerable monstrosities? Perhaps Alienist in their mad search for more information of the outer planes and a deeper connection to the Far Realm.
Anyone who knows about it might be forced to help it, or oppose it. Look up Roco's basilisk, it's a thought experiment about artificial inteligence, but it works just as well for this imo.
Yo, Pickett. You gotta do Rovagug from Pathfinder.
Hmmm... perhaps one day.
Omg! A Tharizdun video! Pretty sure I’ve commented on every video that mentions him. As well as my plot hook comments...
I was under the impression Tharizdun himself created the 333 gems as his final F.U to the gods that imprisoned him. Each containing a fragment of his essence so he could be freed should enough gems be brought into close proximity...
333 is his holy number
And that there was a different number of seals (🦭🦭??? Can we free him if we go clubbing? Ibiza here we come!! Sorry tangent) on his prison.
Who says no one what’s the gems found?
It's kind of cool how many intro assets you have.
Great video oh Lore Master of Many.
So question, the Dreaden fully powered can wipe dimensions out with a thought basically, could a weaken and scared Dreaden be then killed by mortal heros?
Unknown. They appear to be mostly immortal, or very very hard to kill.
If any movie producers are watching...
The World Of Dungeons And Dragons would make a great LOTR style movie trilogy of trilogies
Trilogy 1: Dungeon Master and his 2 children get stuck in the FR care of the amusement park ride. Then the issues with Kaylia and Venger happen
Trilogy 2: the group of kids come into play
Trilogy3: after DM, Venger, and Kaylia leave
They remind me of the eclipse realm from berserk, very cool
Other people watch cat videos to warm their hearts, I watch lore videos of unfathomable horrors. It’s no wonder the knowledge of such creatures brings madness. But If I’m being honest, I’ll be one of those foolish adventurers trying to uncover secrets best left forgotten. Just pray to Mystra and hope she snatches my soul before some elder ooze does.
Could atropus be an undead draeden?
posible
Wow my internet was bad that time lol to triple post lol
I fixed it for ya.
That intro shook me lol, Jesus
Keep up the great work, fire vid
I know that draeden historic accounts are mirky at best but are there any accounts of draeden coming into conflict with the abolithes? I mean the abolith have transcendent memory of the multiverse being reset & altered everytime. So it stands to reason that they were likely here before the multiverse began. And neither the draeden or the abolith seem the type to share power.
True, and no, its pretty much left in the dungeon masters hands as to what the real story is... I am ok with that.
WOW. I had no idea these things existed. I shall have to read these sources myself now. Good work, AJ.
I wonder is a Draden a suitable threat to a pantheon. Or would you need multiple.
Considering they predate the Dawn War... I think one plus it's underlings (which could be anything up to and including Demon lords) would be more that enough to worry a pantheon.
One is bad, twenty is a war.
Reminds me of the animated film "Light Years".
It's available on UA-cam if you're interested
Gandahar? ua-cam.com/video/QBrysnbRj6w/v-deo.html They don't make movies like that any more... pity.
@@AJPickett
Agreed.
I miss movies with a decent story-arc
@@AJPickett In the U.S. they marketed the film as "Isaac Asimov Presents 'Light Years'"
I don’t understand how you would perceive something like that as a dragon. Unless you are only conversing with it and can only see one of the tendrils or something.
Its just the humanoid brain's amazing capacity to rationalize anything.
@@AJPickett You mean not rationalize things, because from how it sounds you could end up with a few screws loose in the head. Unless you are a Warforged then you might literally have some screws loose in your head.
One of your best videos!
So many fun possibilities with Draeden in my Epic 3.5 game!
It's like "the thing" but dnd
Good movie.
Nah. The Thing is more like the Grell compared to this, Draeden.
A stray microbe.
😬
Draedens More ancient than Gods And Dragons.....as well as demons and devil's.., THE AGE OF IMMORTAL
0.) Been a bit caught up with real life recently, and have been missing a number of your videos. Do you still answer comments/questions on old videos, or is that too much to keep up with for someone with your channels library?
1.) For the Therisdune released scenario, does he only care about the prime material plane, or were those being destroyed as well, just they are not where most of the interesting stuff happens?
2.) Why would psionics not work? Aren't those simply inate to creatures, and if anything work great with the far realm?
3.) Video on Neth: the living plane?
4.) What was the reordering of the cosmos?
5.) Wait, the prim material plane and dragons existed before the inner planes? I now the Outer planes (maybe with the exception of the astral plane) came after since they were created by believe, but if they formed before the inner planes then where did the material come from?
6.) Do draeden count as primordials?
7.) Do they reproduce that we know of?
8.) Does that mean IO/Asgorath might be a primordial, draeden, dragon god?
9.) Do you think these things act as warlock patrons?
0.) Yes I do.
1.) He will remake everything, the prime, the outer and inner planes, everything.
2.) Psionics is tied into some fundamental effect the incursion of the Far Realm has had on the prime material plane.
3.) Currently not on my to-do list.
4.) Cosmic wheel, the world tree axis, etc... before that, there was an attempt by a god named Erathis to recreate a unified upper plane... the multiverse is in a state of flux.
5.) Primal powers can create matter out of literally nothing... our whole universe is literally made of nothing at all.. it is a zero-sum. If there is nothing, something pops into existence to take its place, this just is the way it is, universes are self-generating.
6.) No.
7.) We think they do, we are not sure.
8.) Unlikely.
9.) Anything is possible.
@@AJPickett Thank you.
@@AJPickett Thanks for taking the time to answer to these types of questions. Great job as always, by the way!
Well that's just absolutely pleasant
Bigger fishes :p never give power to the big man! Never. Oh odds are...a fookery ensues.
Thank you for making sure I won't sleep tonight! :)
It's basically Akira.
Hmmm Tetsuo.
I like to think of the earlier lifeforms on our own world, having great periods of rule and expansion in the other planes of existence. All life having their own forms of consciousness and awareness.
Each major branch of life here, have likewise periods of dominance mirroring elsewhere.
good video AJ
Great... D&D has been invaded by Galactus too
Oh my gosh, thank you so much
Request for Yellow Musk Creepers?
A part of my homebrew campaign that I plan on making has a Circle of Spores clan worshipping the flower, in particular an Ancient Yellow Musk Creeper variant (modified Corpse Flower CR8).
I have mentioned them in a video
@@AJPickett
The carnivorous plants one? (Haven't watched that one yet.)
I saw the homebrew one that looks like a lily with teeth. (That "polymorphs" into other creatures.)
@@Battleguild the Lurfen, quite like that one.
Very Nice! Keep up the good work!
Love your videos.
Heavily reminded of the Mystery Flesh Pit National Park story AKA Permian Basin Super-Organism. What if a dormant draeden were discovered slumbering beneath the surface of a prime material world?
The humans, of course, add a gift shop and charge for admission.
I had the same thought.
Thank you.
Ah nice, the broken wrath of the immortal creatures.
Just to exist as a theath to immortals lol. But not much to old ones perhaps.
Perhaps the entire multiverse is within the oldest Draeden...
Well...
EXCELLENT Presentation!
👍👏👍👏👍👏👍👏👍👏really did these creatures
justice, bringing them to
life & expanding greatly on
their lore! 😁
🌟 G O L D S T A R ! ! ! 🌟
Thank you 😊
Living meat demidimensions
Well, that was appropriately disturbing. I do like these sorts of videos 🤙🤙🤙