Feminine Gaze & Transformative Stories
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- Опубліковано 27 вер 2024
- There are many thing I could not cover, many theories I could not tackle, many stories I could not include, in order to keep it concise and to the point.
I hope you enjoy it.
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In Conversation With Laura Mulvey (Interview) by ANother Gaze Journal:
• In Conversation With L...
Visual Pleasure and Narrative Cinema by Laura Mulvey (1975):
www.asu.edu/cou...
Joey* Soloway on The Female Gaze | MASTER CLASS | TIFF 2016:
• Joey Soloway on The Fe...
*Note on the above. I cannot change this in the video, but Jill Soloway renamed their self as Joey Soloway and their pronouns are they/them.
i really appreciate the love! i guess the algorithm decided it was time. but please, i know the music/narration levels are off - it depends on what device you are listening on. i cannot change that now. this video is a year old and the file is gone. please stop commenting this. thank you!
You should pin this comment to the top. Anyway great video, i have a lot to think about now.:)
I love how the auto-captions interpret “feminine gaze” as “feminine gays” in almost all instances
well that's amazing
Now, it's not incorrect.
@@fruitygarlic3601 huh?
our YT loves our fem gays too ;-;
*turns on subtitles to feel important*
So many times when males are framed as objects of desire for women, it’s framed as a joke or a man’s idea of what they think women want. There are some exceptions but it’s so rare.
yes!
Regarding a "man's idea": You don't think they would have asked the Oracle at Delphi what women want if that institution was still around? Turned any stone? Used the proven 50 shades blueprint? Done anything to tap into the vast rivers of cash women are able to move?
Alternative viewpoint: Women are not the same. At all. What one wants, another considers revolting, one irresistible and another criminal.
Emphasis on it just being “a joke” so that they can avoid responsibility.
Yes! It is also almost never as dehumanizing and objectifying as when women are sexualized. The men are usually still shown as strong and powerful. It is a part of their sexualization. While sexualized women will often be shown as weak and vulnerable, or at least weaker than some man i the story. The camera will take a voyeristic angle or only focus on her body parts more than her face. I feel like there is usually more of a balance when showing sexual men.
@@NS-et5wh Yeah, almost like there are two sexes. How is it not obviously clear that different features are found attractive?
“We were taught at a young age that men’s desires are the norm, but women’s desires are something to grow out of.” I love that line. I have been thinking about something like this for a while and how it relates kids cartoons that we watch growing up. The girly parts of ”girly kids shows” are seen as more childish. I though about this because “Fate: the Winx Saga” came out and most (if not all) the things that made the original cartoon fun and enjoyable was gone. Either they had disregarded or purposely removed things to make it more “grow-up,” things magic transformations, supportive and loving parents, fashion, healthy romantic relationships, a fantasy world that integrates sci-fi and magic, most of the healthy friendships, and creative interpretation of elemental magic (like having a fire fairy, nature fairy, water fairy but also a music fairy AND a technology fairy.)
Edit: grammar
I watched the show and I think this first season was about them now starting to find themselves more. It's only at the end they all started truly being good friends, wore a bit brighter outfits, bloom got wings, she spoke to her parents and they were really supportive, etc. so it was more about them now finding out more about themselves and each other so maybe next season we'll see how it goes from there
@@gaj30 it could be about that but the problem is that it is not winx club. the live action as barly an resemblence to the olf cartoon accept the school the term faries and most of the names. and it isnt feminine not bright no fashion no magic it is just cold and dark. and that isnt what the fans wanted
@@gaj30 The point of this comment wasn’t for you to be “in defense of,” although it is truly a terrible show. It is about how the feminine gaze embraces the whimsy. The genuine. The heartfelt bond between women that do not have men at the forefront of their lives. The fashion, the color, the light-Winx Club embodied all of these very important things. It was a story in which every girl could see herself, and one that was a testament to power that women can undoubtedly hold, all while being presented in a manner that caters to the feminine gaze. The notion that you do not need to relinquish femininity in order to do important things, all the while not making comparisons to men, saying that girls can do anything boys can do-it was unabashedly feminine. THAT is what fans of the show wanted to see, but in interpreting this new series as “adult” they stripped it of everything that characterized it as the show that women still watch today. They bastardized it by making it dark; stripping it of the magic (no wings???? Who DOESNT love wings??????) and the color that defined it. This show was not made for the feminine gaze. It felt like a kind of an “f you!” to those who adored the show because what it really says is that the things that attract the feminine gaze are less than. They are unimportant and not for “mature,” adult people. THAT was the intent.
And this is an issue that hurts both men and women! Women are shamed for wanting traditionally feminine things, and men to an even greater extent than women. “Ew she’s so girly. I’m not like other girls. I’m a cool tomboy.” + “You run like a girl. Man up.” ... Don’t you hate misogyny 😀
Yes! The attitude that women's stories are less important is all over entertainment; like Weeds being a half-hour comedy to Breaking Bad's epic drama. And Orange Is the New Black as a comedy to Oz's bloody soap. Men are so melodramatic. Of course, women creators use that as a trojan horse. Weeds and Orange started out light-hearted but became deeply dramatic and explored important issues.
male kpop idols have strong fanbases because the know how to cater to the female gaze in multifaceted ways
hell yeah 💜
@@WitandFolly you're an ARMY?! having you in the fandom is a flex 💜
I want to do more videos on BTS but there's too many talented ARMY already covering the stuff I like to talk about. I have a couple, but I definitely want to explore more
@@WitandFolly oh please do, i'm sure we'll be hearing. if you don't you can always disguise it by putting litlle easter eggs on unrelated videos hahah
@@WitandFolly I'd watch your videos even if others have done them already
This video really makes me feel heard. I grew up in a house with five brothers who constantly looked down upon my likes and dislikes, and I could never quite form the correct words to explain why I liked certain things, which made them believe that I didn't have a valid reason. You explained feminine gaze perfectly and because of you I can finally form coherent thoughts, so thank you so much.
I hear ya! I've always had to justify my enjoyment of something but rarely are guys asked to do the same.
@@WitandFolly Preach!
i'm so sorry
hey mate I hope you find healthy womxn/en relationships, spread the sister hood, if not your internet friends are here for you
A guy: “Ick, ‘Twilight’ is a girl’s fantasy!”
A girl: “And ‘The Fast and Furious’ isn’t a guy’s fantasy?”
A guy: “...but, but it’s different!”
Birds of Prey was one gigantic middle finger to the creators of Suicide Squad and I LIVE for it. Male viewers who were used to Harley Quinn being a sex object to be ogled and drooled over with minimal agency were offended and it was the most satisfying part. It was received horribly and people didn't even bother trying to mask their sexism. It's interesting to note that the producers and directors of Birds of Prey were women, but the screenwriter and cinematographer were men. There was an excellent balance going on behind the scenes that made a truly unique product in the world of comic book movies.
I just wish it was presented better and the characters were more flushed out.
Maybe have focused more on Harley than having so many characters it had to flush out and establish in one movie.
@@Gingersnaps_the_pumpkin_kitty YES!!!! The marketing was not done correctly and also the story was much more about harley than getting to fully know the other characters (which isnt how it was advertised at all, quite the opposite)
Both movies were bad
It was definitely much better than what the reviews said. Although, the movie was not perfect either. The weakest part is at 3rd act , it was very underwhelming compared to the more zanny and fun 1st and 2nd act. I think it was partly because of the main antagonist lack of complexity. It seems that they have an archetype in mind, but never actually give him the proper set up to make the viewers care about (hating) him. They tried to make him this weird, flamboyant, eccentric and scary villain, but didn't push it far enough. They need to either contrast the main character (Harley) and make the villain extremely serious or match Harley energy and make him just as crazy.
The story sucked
Thank you for this. I'm a guy, and I'm rethinking a lot about storytelling in large part due to your videos. I also want to share these with my male friends and relatives because these ideas are so important for both media and society in general.
love to see this 💗💗💗 thank you
Good to hear!
Yeah I was really curious and hopeful that I can try to keep this in mind with my own film making.
This makes me so happy to read
She's not gonna fuck you, dude.
One really impotant thing to note , when sexuallizing a charachter , is showing their face . In most of desrespectfull scenes you only get close ups of boobs , thighs etc. and this way the charachter is turned into an object without feellings , you can almost dehumanize them if you want to . It is most in scenes where you can see their face and expression , where objectification is done in a good respectfull way , where the individual has a strong presence and allows you in a way to sexualize them ....
I don't know if the "objectification is done in a good respectfull way" is the best way to describe that, I totally get what you mean, but it's probably not the best words to use.
I have seen few successfully done in that way, you don't ogle them or sexualize them, they are already sensual, own it up, and want the viewer to see them.
the sexy lamp, where a character (usually a woman) can be replaced by a sexy lamp and make no difference to the plot
@@Charlie-xd6vq could you explain it please?
Michael Bay with his female characters are sexist
@@maryumgardner5958 in my opinion , he destroyed Megan Fox
This reminds me of when I saw the anime "Free!" which is about a male swim team. The anime had a really bad reputation in the anime communities and everyone made fun of it and it's fans. So I watched it, and it was THE EXACT SAME as all popular anime shows that objectify women at any chance, that all those anime fanboys praise to the skies. The only difference was that it was the guys bodies that were ogled by the camera, and suddenly all men had a problem with it. It was the only time I had seen the camera look at men the same way the camera looks at women in basically every movie or show ever, but when it's done to men it is suddenly recognized as fucking ridiculous and over the top. It blows my mind that they don't realize that MOST movies, shows and especially games have the same stupid over the top moments like Jacob taking his shirt off every minute in twilight. It just happens to women all the time.
YES! I remember MEN complaining a deeming as ridiculous Jacob taking off his shirt, it was even a meme, but a few years later I see the same pages, whining at women questioning Megan Fox fixing the car scene, as they are jealous and stuff, the same with Free, I personally couldn't get into it but yes, it was one of the few animes that fanserviced girls and guys were complaining about.
I'm personally not a fan of the camera ogling the character, as much as the character owning their sexuality and flirting with the camera, Yuuko Ichihara for me, it's one of the best examples of that, you don't ogle her, she let you see her, I don't know if that makes sense.
I'm laughing because my brother is watching Sk8 Infinity right now and he doesn't see what I see in it. Same with Haikyuu too. In Free! and Yuri on Ice, it was harder to ignore because one allows for more body objectification and the other is a more 'feminine' sport. Most sports anime have such strong roots in BL and the feminine gaze it's hilarious.
My friend and I have had convos about anime and sexism and hoe us as women who love anime are ridiculed by boys who love anime, I’m glad to find this post cuz imma look into these now. I’m curious which anime’s do you guys find that are opposite of free and cater to the male gaze. I know fairy tail does it a lot. I liked the character and storylines but some scenes of female characters were way too sexualiza and way too common in that show
@@xochiltaviles4539 I would argue that Fairy Tail isn't as bad as others because it has equal opportunity fan service. Most Harem and Ecchi shows like To Love-Ru or Highschool DxD are very male-gaze oriented. They're a dime a dozen. Even power-fantasy stuff like SAO casually focuses on what counts as wish-fulfilment more for the masculine gaze. With casual fanservice on the side.
One Piece is also pretty divisive on this, as much as I love it to bits. While Oda does a great job of giving his female characters more backstory, dimension and growth, they all fit either the fat/old/ugly mold or the same exact 'beautiful and sexy' look. Even with the same face designs for the most part. His male characters cater to the male fantasy with a diverse range of idealized male bodies but women only have the one.
I would also say that stuff like Naruto, even though it doesn't have as much ecchi or over-sexualization, caters to the masculine gaze because of how the growth and emotions of all the main male cast are prioritized.
I hear you, I was about 14 when I first started to watch anime and I have seen quite a broad range of series. I enjoyed the Ghost in the Shell series, Air, One Piece and Fairy Tale. Stories where the relationships between the characters are central and how they interact with the world feels more grounded. The characters engage with the world on their own terms in their own way.
Then Ghost in the Shell Arise came out when I was 25. I remember that I was massively dissapointed. Why did the major turn into a moe character. Then there was the overall story that was like. Wat. Where is this going? What was the story even trying to tell? Is this a moe version of Ghost in the Shell? Not to mention the landmine thing, what was that all about?
To what kind of audience was this piece of media intended and what does that mean for me, as an audience? This is what I ask myself _a lot_ in regards to anime after finishing Arise. Needless to say, I quit watching anime.
Though I am not a fan of movies and series in general (I find them overstimilating), I do enjoy my books, my fanfics and my dnd. I can only play and convay their emotions if I know where they come from and what they have been through. If anything, my DM throws more fuel on the fire to get more intense and emotional scenes.
I remember seeing a post about Harley Quinn between Suicide Squad and Birds of Prey, with two pictures side by side. Someone had commented about the differences between the two in the gaze they are presented through. SS Harley the camera was centered on her chest, she was scantily dressed, with a dog collar, and long grabbable pigtales. BoP Harley was centered on her face, her outfit was fun and fitting her personality, her hair was uneven and shorter
Honestly I believe the producers of suicide squad their movie was terrible and deliberately took as many sexy shots to distract from that. Didn't work.
yes I was thinking about that too!! here's a link to the original post btw :)
helly-watermelonsmellinfellon.tumblr.com/post/187602350465/1-pigtails-arent-long-enough-to-pull-on
I feel ashamed because the more I learn about the masculine/feminine gaze idea, the more I realize that I grew up with the masculine gaze and totally internalized it.
U don’t have to hold onto that shame: most everyone who watches media has internalized the male gaze on some lvl. The fact that you’ve realized this about yourself and are working to change ur view (I assume) is something to be proud of, I think.
same :) im slowly getting liberated from it but it is so incredibly difficult
We all did. It's inescapable in this society. Look at movie posters, book covers, commercials, magazines, etc.etc. the history runs deep. And it is going to continue to run deep for a long long time. All we can do is actively continue to learn about it and fight against it
Great video. I have been bothered recently by realising just how women have grown up consuming stories told from the male gaze, and we have been taught to empathise with these characters in such works even though the works are not often told from our perspective.... and men have not been required to do the same, so most of them simply never learned to empathise with women and we still remain some kind of mysterious "other", both objectified and separated out. I really appreciated the thoughts you shared in this.
I feel like that's often why we (collectively and me, specifically) start to identify and empathize with feminine villains more and more - because their thoughts and desires are forced to be taken seriously in the story because they are a threat to the masculine protagonist. Or they have more agency than any of the other feminine characters.
As long as porn industry exists and influences all spheres of life, including culture, it will be this way regardless of ''the female gaze in cinema'' and trying to challenge gender norms and roles ''outside of pornography and sex industry''. It's like an elephant in the room nobody wants to address. Meanwhile today it encompasses everything, so this elephant people prefer to ignore in conversations like this is very influential.
Yeah because movies about women are wack to us.I don't wanna see movies about feelings.Where are the guns, explosions,and naked women?
@@lochofmceo Is this sarcasm?
@@ruranrin2197 nope
why did i burst out laughing at "the boy is literally a nazi"
@Ni Vortex what’s the movie called
I did, too. 😂
I saw your comment at the same time that I got to that part of the video
@@floranj9603it’s from Knives Out
I remember crying in the cinema when the credits for the first wonder woman film rolled. I remember my boyfriend being completely caught off guard by this. WW was the first super hero movie I watched that felt like it was made for me to be the audience. The film respected Diana in a way I had never experienced in the genre. I remember thinking: this is the kind of movies I want my future daughters to see, I want them to feel invincible and understood and catered to.
Same! And I felt so powerful after it. Like I could do anything. Is that how men feel after every superhero movie?
It's a superhero movie. Usually men see them. There have been many great female actresses. Watch alien and the terminator franchise
@@TheTheoser did you see tne video?
Catered to by who?
@@TheTheoser that’s not the point
She Ra and the Princesses of Power (the reboot tbc) is very fem gaze. It’s one of my favorite TV shows partly because of that.
I love that cartoon so much! Steven Universe and Owl House are also awesome in that respect :)
It wasn't my thing, but I get why loads of people like it
Your likes were 420, I changed it
@@amandak.5967 I love Steven because even tho the main character is a boy, it is so well written that you can empathize and relate with him, regardless of your own gender. It’s also wonderful that he’s surrounded by amazing female characters. I love that show so much
Completely agree!!!
You say everything I've been trying to say but just smarter and eloquent- thank you
lol 😂 I appreciate it, thank you so much 💗
You understood this hodgepodge of half baked ideas? It wasn't coherent in any way.
I think some of the reason Birds of Prey received negative reviews is that in the Suicide Squad movie she was shown to be an Object of the Masculine Gaze, but in Birds of Prey she became a person, with opinions and a personality.
More than that, the Feminine Gaze showed her doing what girls actually WANT to do--hang out with friends and have fun, be listened to and taken seriously, outside of interacting with men.
Men weren't part of the equation--it was a "girl party" and much of the offense may have come from the feeling of "how dare they not include us [men]? How dare they have motivations outside of romantic relationships and needs, especially Harley with her background relating to the Joker? Where is the Joker?"
But as a woman, you CAN live outside of having male attention. I grew up in a society that encourages marrying at a young age, but didn't marry till I was in my thirties. Despite this, there has been a lot of emotional fulfillment in my life.
Similarly, Harley might have been created by her interactions with the Joker, but there are comics showing her to have a personality outside of him. Where she hangs out with Ivy, the Birds of Prey, or interacts with Batman in a positive way.
Also, if she was that close to becoming insane I fully believe that it was already inevitable--the Joker pushed her over the precipice but something else could have done the same thing, such as the Scarecrow's gas or Ivy's extremist beliefs.
So her core personality comes from a place outside of the Joker. And that's a hard fact for the Masculine Gaze to swallow.
Suicide Squad didn't get any rave reviews either.
Couldn’t of said it better myself 👏
I write slashers (think Halloween or Friday the 13th) for fun and whenever I meet other writers in the genre they say my stories are missing female nudity. It always made me feel weird because it's my story and there isn't a need for nudity in any of them. And if I ever do nudity it's usually male. This really helped me explain to people the type of stories I'm writing.
The thing is that normally slashers always has a female nude scene, is like a rule they have, i have never really understood why lol
@@valemedina4473 Because most slashers were made pre-internet so they were a good way for hormonal people to get their fix of naked women. And if it sells it goes into the film so it gets even the tiniest bit more edge.
@@user-jn1wm3tb8v ohhh thats a really logical reason haha, good explanation.
@@valemedina4473 Yeah. I don't do it because it's unnecessary imo but other people do it because I guess authenticity?
Yeah, there's nothing Wrong with the cheap thrill of nudity/eroticism in the old slashers, it just woulda been nice to have had a counterpart to tickle he thrills of girls at the same time.
i think the feminine gaze is what draws me (and a lot of people) towards east asian media, especially kdramas, which really started a lot of the feminine gaze trend. many kdramas feature strong women who are independent and adept. they're brilliant lawyers, magically strong, incredible secretaries, and so on. they tend to be full characters with feelings and desires, and feel really fleshed out. not all dramas, because there's definitely some super misogynistic ones as well where the females feel bland and empty while the men have all the personality.
But, still, a lot of them really cater towards women. the objectification tends to be more female-oriented. like, a magazine that targets towards men tends to show off full front shots, emphasizing what men look at, where magazines targeted towards women have them look more feminine, showing off soft curves. in dramas, they tend to show off the soft curves, make the woman look really beautiful instead of doing close-ups of her breasts or butt. the men are shown as glowing, caring, tending to their needs, and valuing them both as a person, and a desirable woman. i've been thinking about this for a while, but you really helped me understand it better!
Exactly! A lot of kdramas and jdramas and cdramas are written by and for women. I'm a man but I love that, you don't see this a lot in the Western media
@@dylanrodrigues i hope it's okay to ask, but how do you feel about feminine gaze media? the one male friend i talked with about it said he felt like they definitely weren't made for him.
does the slow-burn romance feel exciting, or do you find it getting boring? do you notice women getting more fleshed out personalities, and if so, does that make you like it more than a show where the man is fully-formed, but the women are more like props? (no judgement for whatever you answer)
@@secretlybees I don't really mind feminine gaze. And I've watched so many dramas so much that I actually like the romance genre now.😂 And as long as it's written well, I like slow burn romance.
I can't think of anything more unempowering than the implication that female sexuality revolves around wanting to be desired as opposed to being an active viewer
OMG YES
I appreciate you using "feminine" instead of female, bc as a gay trans man I'll always have a far greater affinity for media with a feminine gaze than a masculine gaze. Not only because I appreciate a good Witcher bath scene, but also because of everything else set out in this video.
serious question, legitimately trying to be respectful and not offensive, how does a gay trans man work? were you gay pre-transition or are you gay now that you've transitioned? I'm a little confused and want to understand this so I don't step on people's toes in the future.
@@rileyteramura7552 Well, I'm attracted to men and a trans man. In terms of transition, trans folk usually consider ourselves to be our gender regardless of whether or not we've physically transitioned yet. Despite being assigned female at birth, I've always been a man. Like being gay, you don't grow up straight and then become gay at some point, you've just always been gay regardless of if you or those around you knew. I hope that makes a bit of sense.
@@finpin2622 that makes sense, thanks.
But by using “feminine” instead of female it just undermines women’s experiences based on their sex. Gender is automatically oppression, femininity is intrinsically part of the male gaze. How men perceive, sexualize and commodify the female body is based on gender and its construction of the feminine woman.
@@dreamyanon5151 I've been raised my entire life pre-coming out under this oppression and gaze though, and I'm still socially perceived as female? I don't understand the idea that I somehow have male priveleges or whatever as soon as I realize my internal sense of gender doesn't match what I was assigned at birth. I feel like a lot of AFAB people can still understand and relate to, and have even been subject to misogyny pre-transitioning, or never transition and their bodies are still socially perceived as female... Idk, maybe that isn't correct to say, but I mean, I've been catcalled, followed, had my body and the way I dress commented on by men who perceived me as female. Me being trans didn't change that experience, except that it will likely start happening less when I begin to visibly transition.
People who were assigned female at birth and raised under the perception that they were woman are still generally affected by this stuff, which is why I felt using feminine instead of female felt nice. And other people who naturally don't fit into society's perception of gender probably also feel effected.
I'm no big gender theory academia person though, I just felt included and wanted to appreciate the person who made the video. 🤷♂️
i love how this boils down (very down because there are other amazing points) to "ehy yeah we would want more female characters that are not lamps with object of desire that are relatable to us" and straight man took that as a personal attack... somehow
lol
This is an important video. There's a tiny thing I want to add: I'm tired of the omnipresence of the male gaze in media since I'm a little girl. But also I don't like if writers just create an exact mirror the male gaze for women. That means stupid movie where the guy realizes "Ooooh, the nerdy woman has actually huge boobs. Now I think, I'm in love!" And stupid movie or novel where the heroine realizes: "Ooooh, that boring neighbore actually got killer abs. Now I think I'm in love." We all have our desires and sometimes we eat up a person with our eyes, we just spot on the bus. That's fine. We're sexual beings. (Well... except for the asexual ones. They deserve their own essays and media) But some stuff is just lazy writing.
'Mona Lisa Smile' is a great example of a movie made by men but with feminine gaze
Phenomenal. I'm a fan of both the novel and the film American Psycho, with a strong preference for the movie, but I've never really understood why the adaptation works so differently till now. Loved this.
To me the most feminine gaze ever is k-on. I bet any girl who watches it can feel kinship to the way these girls relate, in a way I personally just can't feel with the Stranger Things boys (they are likeable, entertaining, but they don't feel as right, familiar or utopical as the k-on girls) or any other boy group that doesn't interest me. Another very important work for me is Age of Youth, which also covers female friendships in a very worthwhile way.
East Asian dramas are usually written by women, and some are geared toward female demographics, which is what I like about them.
i love k-on for that reason, you can really see pieces of yourself or your friends reflected realistically in their stories. interestingly, it seems to have a sizable male fanbase.
@@basura8355 because it was made for men lol cute girls doing cute things it's a genre cattered to men who like very simple woman characters mixed with cuteness
I'm pretty sure the director is a woman ! A rarity in the anime industry
@@manganime1893 it's made for everyone lmao
Great video. I don’t know why, but for me feminine gaze is mainly about portraying vulnerability. Thank you for this 😊
Loved, loved, loved this video! It's a "new" tabu when there is no tabu themes left. What I mean by that is that I never hear about this in the media. When it comes to entertainment, namely movies and shows, it's either a "chick flick " or an action movie, or some other genre. That title always annoyed me. This is the first time I've put a name on the genre that I do like and sometimes identifie with- female gaze. Please make more videos about things we don't hear about. Growing up in the 80is, this wasn't even a thing ,and I always hated that. Always felt the divide between the sexes in the entertainment world. Also, how come we know what's entertaining from the male perspective and find it amusing and they get (generally) almost aggravated and uncomfortable with something from a female perspective.
Taboo, not tabu
I’m not saying this as a critique of your video or demanding anything, but I notice how all the examples are full only of white women. The feminine gaze described here feels so foreign and exclusive of Black femininity.
I know. and it's something I've been trying to fix with the media I consume. I'm just one person making these so my examples I have are limited to what I've watched.
True, but black femininity is mostly excluded from media in general (at least in america, afaik) so its hard to find examples of it in the first place
@@whatwhale5888 that’s exactly what I’m taking about. Just as feminism without Black women is not feminism but white feminism, you cannot theorize on a feminine gaze that does not include Black women. Then what is described is the white feminine gaze.
The argument that it is hard to find examples would not hold up academically and would cause failure of a literature review.
@@WitandFolly as I tried to say, this is not a personal attack on you. It is important to acknowledge bias and the point of research is to expose you to viewpoints you’re not aware of.
If we are to talk about women and exclude Black women, that has to be mentioned.
that is certainly not what I'm saying. I made this video a year ago. I know how much I've grown since and I know I still have a lot to do.
Typical, just writing an essay on this to discover you've done it already. I couldn't have done better myself and won't either :D
oh please do! I'm still exploring the topic. there are so many perspectives 💗
An interesting thing for me as an ace is also the whole thing of .. am I more (aesthetically?) attracted to the feminine, or have I just been shown more what to look at. I don't get turned on by people, but I can come up with at least 3-4 views sexualising a female body. And recognize when someone fits that mould. I have no idea for more masculine (outside of what the more female catered things like the anime FREE! or K-pop present).
To sum it up: idk what I'm into and media/straight male gaze might not be helping since it seems to usually make way more clear what parts of a female body are considered attractive/worth focusing on, than for guys.
First movie that comes to mind when I hear the words 'the feminine gaze' is George of The Jungle
Yeah, that one was 👍👌
Heck yeah!
Having just started playing the first game I can say it contrasts strongly with the show. The game is HEAVILY based on the male gaze.
I like this because it describes well why, even if you didn't like Birds of Prey as a movie or a story or a plotline, you have to like it because it is just LIKE THAT. I don't like superhero movies, I found the characters a little annoying, I didn't love the movie for the plotline, BUT coming out of the cinema you have this feeling of "oh, that was different. I can't put my finger on it but that was different and I wanna see more of that."
For me the thing that snapped it into perspective was actually watching The Queen's Gambit a while ago, and watching the scene where she has her "breakdown" or whatever, and she sits around in her underwear and smokes and drinks, and I honestly didn't even realise that that was meant to be an emotional break or whatever because it was just a weird scene where she drank alone. I didn't recognise it as a meltdown. But then I saw a meme comparing that breakdown to Harley's breakdown when she leaves the joker and cries and eats spray cheese as "female meltdown written by men vs female meltdown written by women" and I was like OOOOOHHHHHHHHH That's what it is. That's why the movie is so good. It's the fact that the women are acting mostly like actual women and not what men imagine women to be like...
Anyway that was long but yeah. Good video, you're better at explaining things than me
"it's the fact that the women are acting mostly like actual women and not what men imagine women to be like."
That's just spot on.
So THIS is the reason why the crush I had on Edward Cullen as a teenager never went away? This video made me realise that Edward was literally made for the feminine gaze
hell yeah
While there are many problems with Twilight (for me the biggest was bad writing which became apparent when I tried to re-read it) I appreciated so much the female gaze. It's a first time I've read a male character described that way. I don't read romance novels tho:p
I feel like the Labyrinth movie is kinda for the feminine gaze too
Very deliberately so. Look into the difference between the original (director's? writer's? sry I forget exactly) vision of the story, and what we got.
They just didn't really have the notion of 'Fmale/Male Gaze' to contextualize the intentions behind the re-direction. There's some sort of Labyrinth documentary that goes into it, but I couldn't recall it's title to save the world...
Great video!
Something that popped in my mind when you mentioned adaptations (of books written by men) to the screen was Killing Eve. I strongly identify with how Phoebe Waller-Bridge portrays women (and everyone, really), it's so... real. Just real. Real people, with flaws and weird thoughts, freaky manners, all so different from one another, like any human being. That kind of connection is what creates loyal admirers/followers of her work.
English Captions have been added and a Spanish translation is being worked on 💗
Yes spanish please ❤
It would be great to have it in Spanish, thank you! 💕
Yet again another gold standard production. Also, I never thought I'd want to see Magic Mike! Much like your videos on The Heroine's Journey I never had it vocalized the type of content I've always craved. Stories that just don't end unfilled but protagonist and plots which explore a transformational story that takes all participants along to the end. Like Avatar the Last Airbender. I think these are the stories everyone years for. And these types of stories being told with steven universe and She Ra reflects most positively with the generation coming of age now.
This essay also reminded me of the 2017 French film Revenge. Initially i rolled my eyes at some of the typical male gaze types of body shots. But by the end of the film I was thrown at how it handled the rest of the movie after the inciting event. Seeing it Corlie Fargeat's name at the end made me understand what eventually won me over. I'm really looking forward to what she chooses to do next. Thank you for another small masterpiece!
I think when I'm consuming a piece of media that qualifies as feminine, I just know that it is feminine. But I never really understood how I know. This video really communicates the reasoning behind it eloquently! Thank you so much for that!
I feel like people just aren't used to the feminine gaze in media. For example it's often relegated to cheesy rom coms. That's fine as far as it goes, but it associates the view with something perceived as less than. It's a genre that is just as much mindless entertainment as say action movies. Meaning though there are good, very good Action movies (and Romantic comedies), both genres are flooded with less than stellar examples. It doesn't matter because sometimes we just want the mindless entertainment. However, unlike in Action movies, Rom coms is one of the only genres to utilize feminine gaze. That means that this all too unusual view is associated almost exlucively with movies of a certain quality. Meanwhile Action movies don't have a similarly detrimental effect on the male gaze view because it's just not unique there. Those bad action movies get to be bad not because of the fact that they utilize the male gaze, but because they are bad movies. Rom coms don’t get that luxury. It must be the genre and by extention the feminine gaze that's the problem. Sigh*
I think a good example of feminine gaze in a movie directed and written by men is Moonlight
Fantastic essay! As a man, this was enlightening to see how movies/TV shows I've liked were appreciated for their feminine gaze, and what that means beyond just women desiring men.
This was a masterpiece of a video essay! I love all your work but this has got to be one of my favourites. It needs to be said and spoken of so much more!
thank you! 💗
This is FREAKING AMAZING! I don't know how you don't have more subscribers, but you won me over with just this video -- which is pretty rare. Super well done! Definitely watching more of what you've made.
Thank you so much!
Birds of prey would have probably done better if it had been available to teen girls, unfortunately they made it r rated
What's frustrating to me is that the people in my life that i feel like should see this don't speak English. I'm praying to the translation gods rn
I love this so much because it articulates something I've felt for a while without being able to put words to it. I watch a lot of movies with my stepdad, and some movies he loves annoy or bore me a lot even when there's tons of action. I knew it had something to do with masculinity but I could never really put my finger on it. Now I realize that a lot of that disconnect and lack of emotional response is probably due to the male gaze
The subtitles substituting the words “feminine gaze” with the words “feminine gays” changes the meaning of this content considerably. (≧∀≦)
Quick question: even if men don't want to put themselves in a woman's shoes and see themselves in a feminine-gaze oriented piece of media and are only ever attracted to women... Why don't they still go apeshit when a woman gets what she wants and expresses herself?
I'm a straight(ish) guy and I adore seeing women getting what they want, especially if I'm attracted to them. Like... Why wouldn't I want to see the person I have a massive crush on express herself and get what she wants and experience growth? That's some good quality seretonin right there! There's almost nothing I want more than to see my hypothetical S.O. happy, and I would like to help create that happiness for her.
When Tiana gets her restaurant, when Mulan saves her country, when Harley Quinn is having the time of her life kicking ass... How do straight guys not want to scream "go get em! I love you so damn much! Go do! Wear that pretty dress if it makes you feel good! Kick ass if it makes you feel good! I'll sing your praises!"
Context: I'm a trans guy so I'm not sure how cishet men think.
Yes we do. I liked the first Mulan! The second one turned into brainwashing. She ends up talking the princesses of ancient china into feminism. Talk about immersion breaking. It wasn't.. here let me show you to think for yourself. She was just lecturing in the movie. All the comic stuff I just despise. Harley Quinn is not a healthy person. She is literally insane. I like strong females that are based on reality.. not some over the top removed from reality fiction.
Because men feel that the moment a woman is getting something she'd been fighting for, there's less for a man to "take"? Also, the more women achieve the stronger and more confident they get, get harder to control and are not willing to take shit from men anymore. "What if women watch this and start getting...ideas?" Usually these are dudes who grew up listening to society's narrative of how only men should be seen as strong and how women should always be portrayed as submissive, even when they're far from it, so when they see something that doesn't fit into this primitive narrative they often go batshit and try to bully women back into submission outing themselves as complete morons along the way.🤷
Since you mentioned you're trans, you very likely escaped this brainwashing growing up and probably were on the receiving end of the hate speech against women and trans people more than once, which only contributed to the desire of seeing them succeed. But I'm making assumptions here ofc since I don't know you personally :)
@@vp3841 Jesus. The one thing you don't seem to be aware of is that you are just as far down the rabbit hole as these men. Thankfully it's not the majority. In an ideal world if somebody does well it would lift everyone up. I wish that was always the case.
@@hgzmatt well, what a good thing that you're completely immune to any type of brainwashing and, like a decent man, lose your marbles only on the subject of feminism. We should all aspire to be like you.👍
@@vp3841 Never claimed that. Why do you feel the need to attack me. I know I have my issues to work through but I know it's not always society and it's not all men or women. I can tell when I am triggered and yes feminism does it. Because it seeks to interpret the world in ways that will pit us against each other. Just as some of the male movements do.
Great video! I would be interested in you reviewing some movies from this perspective you think fit the bill of fem gaze, so that I could watch them later with as close to this perspective as I can get. As a guy, the closest I have really gotten to these kinds of movies and "knowing" it's fem gaze is watching lifetime real women with my mom as a kid, and honestly so many of these big blockbusters make me tired and feel samey and I have been kind of longing for something new without being able to put my finger on what that would look like. I'd be curious to have a list of films I could watch and a new way of enjoying them.
You are amazing, this really makes me hopeful for the future because we know the code. We can spot it instantly.
Ha ha. I don't need psycho-analysis to find Henry Cavill hot, however it does help me understand why.
"Objectified because she wants to be"? Desired maybe, but what woman wants to be objectified?
Thank you
I've been studying the male gaze thanks to being on the television production course at uni, it's nice to get access to a resource for the female gaze. I really do appreciate the video
As a boy, I'll be the first to admit that I actually HATED Harley's outfit in "Suicide Squad", It just didn't work for me. I'd have loved it if we had gotten a unique variation of her iconic jester outfit, instead if the HOT TOPIC portrayal we got in the movies.
I’m going to imagine your going to like the following anime- yuri on ice and demon slayer, silver spoon and full metal alchemist. There’s, a good set of anime there now
Even the scene where Winry accidentally takes off her shirt in front of Ed didn’t feel like male gaze even with the camera angle, because it was played for comedy and didn’t focus on Ed being aroused at all.
Loved all of your videos about femininity and the feminine divine, please keep it up! This is rare to see🌟
This video analysis is a masterpiece. Comprehensive, compelling and extremely well thought out and delivered. I’ve watched numerous videos on the male gaze and the way you accurately and concisely describe the feminine vs the masculine gaze makes me feel so SEEN and UNDERSTOOD. Bravo and chef’s kiss 🤌🏼💋✨✨✨
Do you think that the general lens of romantic comedies is for the feminine gaze? When I think about sleepless in seattle it felt palpable who the gaze was because the movie kept making references to the characters as an audience of romance and movies, and let us see ourselves as reflections in those characters.
generally, yes. but also our state of romantic comedies in the West tends to defer to the masculine POV
Another show that i think might also have some aspects of the feminine gaze is The Queens Gambit, which is honestly my favorite show from this year maybe ever. I also loved the way Beth Harmon was written she's a genius, smart, talented, yet confident, she has her demons and her issues. She's complex, she still enjoys fashion even though the men and women would expect her not to because she's so smart and so good at a subject dominated by men. And i've noticed that so much i mean look at scooby doo, i grew up on that shit, and honestly still love it but its interesting how they obviously code Velma as the nerd and because she is the nerd and smart she cant express her femininity the way Daphne does. Lmaoo i have no idea if what i just wrote made any sense, Also i loved The Witcher.
Yes! The queens gambit is phenomenal, and doesn’t cater to the male gaze. She is never objectified by the camera, she is a person. Whenever she’s dressed scarcely, it’s for comfort and her own desires. The show wasn’t made for men to see a hot lady, it was made for people to watch a story about a person. (:
@@alexajackson3655 nah she was definately objectified in her "rock bottom" clips. When a lady is really at rock bottom, shes not going to have perfect hair and makeup, dancing around in her lingerie
@@illchangemyusernamewhenith9130 as a woman whenever im in a bad place I dress up nicely and do my makeup, at some parts yes, but at others it was simply her being dressed scarcely. You don’t have to be dressed like a nun to not be sexualized...
@@alexajackson3655 idk how she could have been any more needlessly sexualized in that scene but ok
When I was younger I really enjoyed 'My So-called Life' and 'Stealing Beauty' two coming of age stories, a TV show and a film I think qualify as possessing a feminine gaze. They both had very attractive female leads - Claire Danes and Liv Tyler. I think I appreciated them because even though they had attractive female leads the film or show wasn't pounding me over the head every 20 seconds demanding I desire them, or even judge them. This was the age of body count action movies so it was a pretty welcome departure.
Lost in Austen! I never hear anyone talk about it, but I love that miniseries so much! 😍 If there could be more shows like it, the world would be a better place.
I've met so many people who say they love the Witcher in a jokey, it's a guilty pleasure, way. I didn't get why though cuz I love that show. Full stop. Love it. Have watched it twice. Will probably watch it again at some point. Will def watch it again once more before the new season comes out.
I still don't like how birds of prey made Cassandra Caine completely different then she is in the comics but Bop was a good movie . Its Funny how u can really see the change from Bop to The upcoming The Suicide Squad by James Gunn by what Harley is wearing from the set photos. BOP harley was Cosplay Friendly and paratactical while The Suicide Squad harley Seems to be Wearing a Really Slutty Red dress. anyway Great video as always :) Btw I think if we get a Sequel to BOP well probably See Harley vs Punchline as that is what their doing in the comics Right now and it would make sense for BOP2 to tackle the Ex Girlfriend of the joker vs the Current GF of the joker and how that would look like in Female Gaze
think about what Cassandra Cain looks like in the comics.... annnd point proven 😊
Loved this, and just grew my ‘to watch’ list by three 😄 thanks!
Thank you! A film that I think has characteristics of the feminine gaze is The Art of Self-Defense (or at least I think it does, can a movie with only one female character, not even the protagonist, be considered to have feminine gaze?), 100% recommend :)
This was so interesting, well researched and well said - thank you! 🤩
Glad you enjoyed it!
If you want to know what the female gaze is like, watch Twilight or 50 Shades of grey. Read any romance novel with the male lead as a vampire or pirate. The idea that women haven't been catered to until recently is a false narrative. We don't live in an oppressive patriarchy, and even if we did, patriarchs like money too. Movies and other media designed to appeal specifically to women have been around for a long time. There's an omnipresent implication that what men like is bad but what women like is good involved in these discussions. I know what women like, and it's just as ridiculous and self serving as men. Instead of worrying about who's gaze is better, why don't we just say that franchises have different target audiences? It's a clearer more neutral way of expressing the same idea.
I've seen plenty of feminine gaze films and I've been on this planet for ages so i don't know what the video was talking about.
1. Wonderwoman
2. She-ra
3. Cat's Eyes
4. Life's And Loves of A She Devil (UK version)
5. Witches of Eastwick
6. Super girl (80s film).
You can't say feminist media is rare or in short supply. You're not looking hard enough.
This video is so well thought out and really well presented, thank you!
thank you so much 💗
Oh my god I just started this and the first clip was from a little princess - I’m in
This is why I felt so alienated by Avengers: Infinity War and Endgame. Loki's death, the way other characters were treated/abused/killed/glorified... it was all for the male gaze. ALL OF IT.
I never thought of it that way before. I just knew that the deaths were hella weird, but I get what you mean. How there has to be big deaths or it's not worth it
@@Ayesha-ps5ze I honestly don’t remember any of the big deaths. The two I remember (correct me if I’m thinking of the wrong movie) are Natalie falling to her death and Tony dying.
@@saracole7623 I kinda counted Cap too, but yeah you're right. Now that I'm thinking it over it was mainly Cap's whole thing that I found hella weird. If I'm right, it was because Chris Evans wanted to move on from the role right?
Also the whole Loki thing was weird too ngl but idk if it falls into the whole masculine gaze thing, just bad writing.
No.. those are just bad movies.
is death uniquely masculine?
I found this video a year after it was released, and my only regret is not finding this (and your channel) sooner. Suki from Avatar: The Last Airbender said "I'm a warrior, but I'm a girl, too."
So that’s why I only ever see men reviewing Birds if Prey as bad...
Is so hard to fight my knee-jerk reaction to reject the ideas presented by this video and the comment section.
Although I think some things said or read can be objectively be challenged, at the same time I realize that this need to objectively challenge these ideas should also be my knee-jerk reaction to male gaze ideas and similar, yet since I have internalized those ideas as being "right" is harder for me to apply the same logic I instantly apply to things related feminine gaze.
I have to spend so much energy just trying to hear the value of what is being said instead of looking for nitpicks to reject them that at the end of the day I almost impossible to actually listen and not just hear.
Can someone comment a list of feminine gaze movies
Pleaase
Does Anne with an E fit the concept? I believe so, from a young girls point of view
I think Anne With an E definitely is feminine gaze!
@@cherryfiftynine6267 I LOVED Anne with an E and I was so shocked by how I much I did
Older movies which explore the awakening of the feminine sexuality/desires: The Company of Wolves ( tw: gore, horror elements), Labyrinth, Dirty Dancing.
Romance oriented movies with the focus of the fem gaze: Pride & Prejudice (2005), Ophelia, Jane Eyre, Ever After, Belle (2013), When calls the heart (2013), The Shape of Water, A Werewolf Boy.
Other genres: Mona Lisa Smile, One million yen girl, Little Forest (there is a korean and a japanese version, both are very good), Heidi (2015), A Little Princess
Some tv series recs: Mr. Sunshine, Miss Fisher's murder mysteries, North & South, Something in the rain, Love 020
Summs it up very well. I also love how you specifically point out, that its not about gender. This video helps me to understand my take on the world, because I, as a man, see the world in a feminine gaze. So thank you for clearing things up for me :D
This was awesome. Well done and also challenging.
"This causes the masculinizstion of the audience." KEY POINT! I often hear men say how unfeminine today's women are, without realizing that is a product of their media being internalized by women or others.
I love how Hirohiko Araki, the creator of Jojo's bizarre adventure, makes things appealing for all genders. He already talked about drawing "beautiful boys" and honestly Jojo is the only anime that I was fine having buff dudes and it had me like their buffness. Then from part 4 onwards there's the very flamboyant male characters that are just pleasant to look at. The show has these good looking dudes fighting and it's still just as brutal.
This video was extremely interesting I wanna show it to everyone I know omg
When You ask me what my favourite movie is I'd tell you Lemony Snicket.
Appart from being more gothic it also has this feeling of a familial gaze. And than I think of all my guilty pleasures, that I shouldn't call guilty pleasures. Like legally blonde. I rewatch that movie more than most. And I do so for a reason. And I rewatch Winx, which despite being created by a male has a beautiful interaction between girls without ever making them feel whiny or like pure objects of desire.
And I rewatch one of my favourite Animes Kaichou wa maid Sama. And these don't necessarily have a femine gaze but they just allow a femal perspective to be seen.
I am so glad this video popped up in my recommendations! Now I'm going to check out the other videos on this channel.
When men dont like a story it is way more often that there is no hero's arc. The hero never had any flaws and never had to go through any adversity. That isnt even a story. It becomes a masturbatorium
This was great! And so spot on.
And sorry this is a such a side note. It’s not to take away from the video.
But this whole idea of being given the bare minimum, thinking your given what you want, but really your not. Some people are comfortable or settled, even though it’s not equal.
If we took that perspective and used it for LGBQTSA+ or BLM, maybe it would bring America closer together.
Thank you!!!!! THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU! Thank you for covering every question I had about the female vs male gaze and feminine gaze, male-gaze dominant female gaze, good examples of good transformative work, imagery everything thank you thank you
The first two minutes of this video were all I needed to subscribe to you
Men look at women sexually and women look at men sexually. So it has been since the beginning of time. Nobody has made a convincing argument as to why this is a problem.
It's bad when men do it but good when women do it because reasons
so thoughtful and empowering just to hear you unpack this, thank you!!!
Thank you again for another fantastic video.
This is a really great piece. It's interesting how books/movies with the feminine gaze tell the story in comparison to stories told from the male's gaze.
This is SO interesting, huh
This was so fulfilling for my soul. Thank you for sharing this with the world.
I learned more from this video than I did from my university classes. Well done!
your collection of videos is a fascinating one to me - as a non-binary, I tend to look at media without really analyzing gender's role in it, as from my perspective, gender is a non-factor.
when I create characters and stories, the gender of the characters, if they even have one, is not a trait that defines their character almost at all. while I think that's all well and good, I may go a little too far in ignoring gender and its affect on a person, due to my perspective being warped by society, my gender identity, and my opinions on gender and sex as a whole. it's very hard for me to wrap my head around how all that works myself because I can't really feel the way men or women feel in their gendered selves - while my perspective is unique, it's not as complete as I really thought it was. perhaps I should write my own essays!
Needless to say (hopefully), I am absolutely loving watching your videos - I'm learning a lot, and I believe you're helping improve my writing and my awareness of these topics and issues. lots of love, and keep up the freakin' amazing work!
I love your video ! Very well explained, thank you !
thank YOU 💗
This was a really interesting video, and quite informative! I think there's definitely room for both forms of gaze in cinema, as well as alternatives and hybrids too. Film is such a fascinating subject.
First of all, I loved this! Thank you for your work on it. I am curious...in your opinion, what movies would be the ultimate masculine gaze stereotype that you would like to see transformed with a feminine gaze?
I haven't watched the new Star Trek Discovery show so I'm not sure, but I've always been curious as to how Star Trek could be handled if done from a fem gaze POV. Those Star Trek boys kissed sooooo many scantily clad dressed female aliens back in the day... would be interesting to see what women's stories would be in that universe.
But even more personal, I love Dexter, Breaking Bad, Rome, LOST.... Absolutely love those shows. Any of those types transformed to a fem gaze perspective would be to die for.