Prentiss Bulldog Vise Repair: Brazing a Cracked Casting
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- Опубліковано 5 жов 2024
- Prentiss Bulldog Vise Repair: Brazing a Cracked Casting
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Back in 1976 I needed to braze a crack in a cast iron pump body that hadn't been drained properly and had split from freezing. I built a fire from charcoal briquettes and filled the pump body with them. Then I used a shop vacuum to blow air over the fire to preheat and brazed the crack. I covered the job with a piece of fiberglass batt insulation and let the briquettes burn themselves out. It was my first successful cast iron repair.
Good morning to all from SE Louisiana 18 Mar 22.
I really like the voice-over parts. It lets you do post-mortem analysis.
Brazing is like Brylcreem: "A little dab will do you!"
(I wonder how many people will get that reference...)
You are and have great friends. Helping someone with your skills and knowledge is a good feeling.
I always preheat parts that size in my BBQ grill. I also flux the area with silver solder flux. After brazing put it back in the grill and slowly reduce temp over 2 hours. 👍
Another old tool lives again! Great video Keith.
Very nice job of the brazing repair. Only other thing I would have done, would have been to drill very small holes at the very ends of the cracks in the cast iron to terminate the cracking, before I brazed.
How many have seen the crack continue after drilling the hole(s)?
@@waynespyker5731 Only if the hole was not drilled at the end of the crack but already continued past it when drilled.
@@waynespyker5731 None. It looked like Keith ground past the crack to good metal. That would have made sense with a large item.
You are gifted at brazing AND teaching. Thanks for sharing.
Love your work Keith
Hello Keith,
perfect job for me. Thumbs up.
Lately, the volume of the sound of your videos is very different - here I have to constantly change the volume. Maybe it's just me, but maybe other viewers experience the same. Could this be related to the new RODE microphones?
You are the pro.
When I was looking into this in the past, there was a "normalize volume" feature in the video editing software. Does that no longer exist today?
Best regards, Raik
An oven would be a practical edition to the shop, some of the advantages would be,
With the price of acetylene as high as it is the payback on a used oven would recover its cost after just a few uses preheating parts.
The time saved preheating parts can be used for other projects.
There is less stress in the preheated parts.
The oven can also be used to cure powder parts.
Pizza for lunch.
he has an american rotary hot shot, its just not quite big enough.
@@nilzlima3027 What the hell are you talking about, and what has the rotary converter have to do with it? Ovens work on single phase 220 current not three phase. You seem to be in a world of your own or answered a different comment, please elaborate hot shot.
@@july8xx He has a tempering and heat treatment oven, now sold by American Rotary, but the oven is not big enough to hold this part. For pre heating a big propane torch works better, as you use cheap propane to heat it up, and can also wrap most of it in the blanket beforehand as well, so the heat stays in as you heat it up, and then you need to use less of the expensive oxygen and acetylene to do the braze, as the part is essentially at just under dull red heat already, so needs little more heat input to get it to braze.
@@SeanBZA We use an inexpensive used standard kitchen oven and have for the past thirty five years, and even propane/oxy torch is more expensive than a contained oven. We are also talking about the time wasted preheating a part to braze. My customers would rather not pay somebody at the rate of $45.00 and hour when the casting can be heated for less than ten cents worth of electricity. The propane and oxygen cost a lot more than that. Another advantage is you can place the finished part back in the oven and turn it off and let it cool instead of wrapping it. BTW I have no problem with the way Keith does things. I must admit that I forgot that American Rotary has purchased Stan’s tempering oven but the AH that first commented ticked me off and still doesn’t know what I was suggesting . BTW you shouldn’t make pizza in an expensive tempering oven.
@@july8xx ok moron, ill start by quoting you from above; "an oven would be a practical edition to the shop," bla bla. the american rotaty hot shot is an oven that runs on 240vac and he has one in the shop. I can only imagine you live in a world of your own concoction as that is where you jump to so quickly. try this in the future; think first then speak.
thank you, i love your braising versus welding explanation
Great video Keith, keep'um coming..
great vice repair
I have a hand plane that was repaired by brazing.
It belonged to my dad, and I am guessing it is well over 60 years old and it's as good as new!
I have watched your channel for many years and you are no doubt a master at brazing. I never have anything come up that needs to be brazed but if it ever does I will apply what I have seen you do and have confidence that it will come out all right.
I have asked you this before but have you ever tried to actually weld cast iron? Not camouflage it with Ni Rod but gas weld it with cast iron. When done right you get an undetectable repair every bit as strong as the original part.
That vise would be an ideal candidate. When you are done you could machine it off and the table would look just it did when it came from the factory. ,,,,
One more thing, we have a heat treat furnace now and it;s the cat's donkey for pre and post heat as well as regular heat treating, but before we got it we used to heat cast iron outside in a charcoal fire. Dig a hole and line it with charcoal and put the part in the hole. Then cover everything with more charcoal and light it off. Keep the fire going until while you are welding. As soon as you are done put the part back in, Cover it with more charcoal and cover the whole thing with fiberglass insulation and leave it there for a day or two. When the fire goes out you have a completely stress relieved part ready for sand blast and machining if required.
It;s a real pain in the keester but you can make it like it never even happened. - We do antique furniture and other irreplaceable cast iron objects all the time where a big yellow splotch will just not do.
We do braze on a cheap quickie job, but we will not use Ni Rod no matter how much the customer may want it. - Our reputation is not worth the hit.
I have always used a weed burner torch to preheat parts, it works great!!
Nice job Keith, I have a large vise to repair soon also.
I learn a lot with you Keith. Thanks a lot for share. From Buenos Aires, Argentina. Thank you.
It's at least as good as a Harbor freight vice nice repair
*- Understanding the 'why' part of 'how-to-braze' is sure important, but then comes the experience part of laughing at yourself while getting it done successfully.*
I have one of those vices with a ear missing on the side, some day i need to scrounge up a peice of cast and braze it on. Nice job you inspired me once again👍
Keith in the past when I have been brazing to a 90 degree edge I prop a piece of 1" square carbon about 4" long to the edge that will allow the bronze to spill off the edge.
Keith, as always, great video. Since you have changed your audio system, it is amazing at the quality of audio on the viewers end. Very nice repair job. Looking forward to your videos.
It is better quality but the volume is up & down like a yo-yo every time he turns his head
Difficult job made to look easy. Thank you!
A little touch with the needle scaler makes a bronze repair look like rough cast-iron.
You need a shade 5 lens for your camera. The man that taught me to braze had me cover the piece to be brazed in soot from the acetylene torch and slowly burn the soot off to preheat the piece.
Keith, I’d like to ask why you didn’t grind the crack on the inside of the slide area? Also want to ask why the ends of the cracks weren’t drilled to stop further fractures of the vise? I’m not here to complain how you did a job asking as to why it was done that way so I can learn something, thank you sir
Cracks were from hammer abuse not stress so no need to drill hole to stop a stress crack.
@@bwyseymail thank you for that, my old age I forgot only stress fractures can expand, I hate being old
Regarding the inside of the slide area, you cant get a grinder in there and it would also make it harder to do the edge buildup.
@@samuraidriver4x4 a die grinder and tapered bur will fit in there with no problems, I know he has one, seen him use it on a past video
@@kevinhaley8625 still got the issue of building up the corner, makes it alot harder if you have 2 corners to build up.
Nice job but Im surprised you didnt drill-stop the cracks beforehand Keith. Also for a preheat, just throw it in the barbie for an hour or so.
If you run into this in the future, get a cheapo or free craigslist gas grill. Then you can just throw it in there for an hour and have your preheat, plus already have what you need in place for your postheat. When I do cast in the winter I put it on top of my woodstove. Clamp my ground to the leg and just weld it right on the stove. Then before I go into the house I load the stove up full. Never had a cast crack. Brazing is a very good repair too. Lot cheaper than using nickel 99
Hi Keith, is there a reason you don't put a firebrick or something underneath the part to thermally insulate it from your bench? seems like that would draw heat out of the part making it hard to get a good preheat on it.
pehaps it isnt too big of a heat loss, or he heats his bench too
Have you ever tried spray welding? I had a cracked manifold that I used a Stoody spray welding torch and it did a great job using the build up powder.
I always like to see your great brazing jobs
Hi Keith I have been missing your posts and it seems that You tube in their self identified wisdom had deleted my subscription or otherwise simply did not pass on notifications of new Videos think a catch up binge on my part will follow. Anyhow good to see you are well and working away as normal
Great video Keith !
Hiya Keith
I use aluminium bronze 3/32'' with a TIG welder, using 90/10 AC, to "braze" cracked or broken cast iron repairs. 4099 welding rods don't run well and the repair can cause its own issues.
Thank you for sharing. Nice repair.👍👀
I agree with you on brazing. Why didn't you drill a stress relief hole at the end of the crack?
Someone mentioned that the crack wasn’t caused by stress so no need to drill stress relief holes. After the slow cooling the vise should be stress free.
Hi I always appreciate the skills displayed in your videos and the knowledge you pass on for others to learn.
Had the casting actually spread causing the crack to open that much and if so would that effect the performance of the vice when restored? Or would trying to reduce the width of the crack put further stress into the piece thus potentially weakening the braised joint ?
Good video never got the hang of brazing
Thanks for sharing 👍
Keith,
I have a couple of questions. Why didn't you drill stop the crack to prevent further propagation? Along the same lines, why didn't you use dye penetrants to assure that you had ground out the entire crack? You seem to trust that the braze will fill the cracks at their end.
I have to admit that my knowledge of crack repairs is predominantly for cracks in steel. I have seen a few repairs in both bronze and nickel aluminum bronze.
Bob
Low stress area, the crack came form it being used as a blacksmithing anvil, which it is not meant to be. In use all the stress is in the side webs and the base, almost nothing at that top section other than the residual stress from the original casting, which with the braze has largely been relaxed now.
nice video and instruction
Could you use the damming putty that you use for babbets to dam up that back end?
@@flat-earther Does not need to last long, even just a long bolt through, with 2 large washers each side to hold the putty in place for the braze work would do, but just using the puddle and building it up works just as well, and also gives a good spread to the side of the casting as well.
@Keith; Please can you sort out the audio? its a lot worse from this end since the new lav mic. I would rather like to hear what you are saying. Many thanks.
The audio is working fine for me.. 👍👍
@@bigtrev8xl Most parts are good but occasionally the sound level drops down and it's difficult to hear him. I've noticed this in most of the recent videos.
@@Ambidexter143 I've not had a problem at all...
@@flat-earther thanks, will do
@@bigtrev8xl very strange, try comparing 15.42 with 15.45?
GREAT JOB, PLEASE TELL CATS & DOGS HI, SEE YOU ALL NEXT TIME...
So you keep the torch pointed directly at the brazing rod and joint surface rather than like soldering copper where you keep the torch heat away from the joint so the solder travels towards the heat?
Nice job
I wonder if it would help us see your brazing technique if you used a filter to filter out yellow light.
I would have grabbed a nice bit of thick steel plate and cut it to fit as an anvil on top, then brazed it in as the final step in the job, so that you have the thick steel to use as anvil and the steel taking the blow, transferring to the cast of the rest of the vice. Pretty much every vice will be used as an anvil at some point, best to make it able to stand the use.
Thanks for sharing the technique. Do you ever have to worry about the crack expanding while you are brazing? Do you ever need to put a clamp on the body of the vise while brazing?
A little dab'll do ya
Why didn’t you drill a small hole at the end of the crack in the “vee”?
I think I’d have wanted to vee that out all the way and stuck a piece of graphite on the inside to act as a dam although maybe overkill considering the use. I also like brazing with tig it’s a lot easier to control the puddle in a buildup
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I’m not criticizing using that old vise in some 100 yr old way, for 100 yr old purpose, according to a 100 year need. And it still works.
How about donating it to Windy Hill Foundry?
Could you use the putty for Babbit pouring to make a Dam around the repair?
@@flat-earther You are probably right, Moldpak is good to 1200F and brazing is up to 2000F. I only thought of it as I know he has some in the shop
How do you like the flex volt grinder? Do the batteries last enough to do real work? It looks like you have used it a bit? I have am pondering that grinder for my 9amp flex volt batteries.
I love mine! You can lean on it and it loves it. Buy one now! Then you'll say I wish I had sooner. No joke. Yes it lasts with 60v 6ah and even longer with 9ah batt.
Nice job as usual! Could you use some of that caulking for babbitt to form a dam at the edge? (just wondering)
That thing wasnt worth the cost of the brazing rods, much less you time? Facebook Market is FULL of old vices, much nicer than that garbage for CHEAP! YUCK
Surprised you didn't drill out the end of those cracks.
Hi Keith, what's up with the K and T low lead attachment project and the stoker engine project?
Keith, I love your videos, but sometimes I can barely hear what you're saying.
Nice job Keith. What is that welders blanket made of. It looks like fiberglass. Look nice. Paint will cover the difference of material but structurally it is just fine.
Looks like Kevlar. It is quite heat resistant.
Which kind of flame is being used here just to make sure? Is it a neutral or an oxidizing flame as for sure not a carburizing type?
Neutral flame, slighyl reducing, you want a lot of heat, but not excess oxygen as that degrades the braze material. Most of the white colour is the flux reacting on the metal to clean it.
@@SeanBZA Thank you for that detail.
Shouldn't you have made some holes in the roots of those cracks to relieve stress?
Can I repair some small chips with braze on my vise? What kind of rod do you use? Thanks
A little dab'll do ya.
Like the video
Looks like they used a puddle torch on it which is actually better than bronze. In my opinion sir... not maybe what is. It's a repair.
“Welding” cast iron with nickel rod is brazing not welding the same a “silver soldering” is silver brazing with nickel silver rod.
Folk's there is no need to drill the end of the crack(s) if you have the material to grind past the end of the crack to good metal.
I don't have an oven, but I think it would fit in my kiln? :)
Brazing=adhesion, welding=cohesion
Have you tried spray welding for cast iron repair? Saw it on another channel it seemed too work really well!
couldn't you use something like babbitrite on the back to keep it from flowing out then remove it and finish it on the back?
Could you have used the damming material you use for babbitt pours on that edge or is brazing a hotter temperature?
Why not deck it in the mill?
Why is everybody afraid of nickel rod and a aAC welder ?
It's some kimd of welding Keith .....ffs
Hey Keith, is that an oxy propane setup?
It is always good to see Brazing as a repair. On a different note, take a look at the attached video link for Cutting Edge Engineering. I think you will enjoy this one! ua-cam.com/video/IW_2tzF9NCc/v-deo.html
Ah, beat me to it. Nothing like Jig Borer envy.
But did you send Curtis the Auto collimator video that Keith did a while back? It looks like he might have got one in the tooling to calibrate that monster.
most excellent link. WOWSERS! what a machine.
... um Yup...mhm If someone theoretically welded Steel to cast iron (I don't know which one, the chip was very small like typical Cast iron), without any preheating and just using a normal Mig welder? Of course i wouldn't do something like that. (Would it stabilize If heated up )
How good would that hold? What could happen? Could it crack?
Asking for a friend (he said he didn't know it was cast iron, bcz normally he just works on steel parts, like 99,9% are steel parts.. So he didn't really thought of that)...
the reason you see welding tables made from cast iron is because the steel welding filler dosent stick to it.
If it hasn’t cracked by the time you posted this it’ll probably last till the cows come home.
@@ellieprice363 well i dont see any cracks yet so that is the hope, that and i dont have any cows so if they show up i will have bigger problems
If you use a torch why not use a cast iron piston ring for a welding rod ??? Used them for years similar metals instead of dissimilar metals . Not a new idea
Hi Mr. Rucker, i would like to ask you one question: when dose the Steam Stoker Engine Restoration go on?
Arhhhhhhh!! It took awhile, but I knew the inevitable "stoker" question would surface!! It never fails. Also, there is an abundance of "end of crack hole drilling" experts that like to see their name in print (I guess). Do you guys ever read the comments? Hundreds of the same comment seems "excessive"............!
Actually that is the anvil part of the vise.
I have a vise that also has a small horn at the anvil portion of the vice.
that vice had no anvil and is not made of the proper material for whacking.
@@nilzlima3027 Makes you wonder why they would machine that part flat, doesn't it?
@@oldschool1993 Not for pounding on. But people can't stop themselves - seen a few munted vices where Bubba couldn't see what he was doing to his (or the boss's) vice
@@MrPossumeyes I've never seen a vise without an anvil flat, but they are made for certain operations- like sheet metal etc., not to replace an actual anvil. But it's pretty clear from the fact that they broke the entire casting that they were giving this vise a workout far beyond its design.
sounds like "manual 3d printing"
To do a correct job the cracks should have been terminated by drilling holes at the end of the cracks, contrary to common opinion and UA-cam misinformation , when brazing it is not a case of just filling a ground out hole with filler rod this equates to overheating the job, a correctly brazed job should have a rippled appearance e.g. similar to a TIG weld
Don’t restore it. Show off the repair. imho.
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