VIA Rail No More? Canada’s $12BN Plan for NEW High Frequency/High Speed Rail (2023 Deep Dive)
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- Опубліковано 30 чер 2024
- Canada is unique compared to it's G7 peers..
We are the only one out of this group of developed nations that DOESN'T have any sort of High Speed Rail system.
Not even "baby" high speed rail -- which is over 200km/h..
There have been decades of discussions on this subject, with not much to show for it. But in 2022.. that all changed!
The most recent news to the High Frequency/High Speed Rail file reveals some bombshells about the future of this critical infrastructure in Canada.
Things are finally moving - but this future, as it turns out, is one that may not include VIA Rail in it at all..
Watch this video for a deep dive into all things high frequency/high speed rail in Canada.. so you can get caught up to speed (pun is very much intended!)
Thank you for watching and please drop your comments and thoughts below!!
Sources cited in video. This video is for educational/informative purposes only.
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CHAPTERS:
0:00 Intro
1:09 History of Passenger Rail in Canada
3:40 VIA Rail Today
4:50 The Big Problem
6:25 VIA’s Proposed Solution
9:06 The New Fleet of Trains
11:24 Transport Canada’s Takeover
12:46 VIA Gets Sidelined
14:54 Benefits to New Arrangement
15:35 Criticisms of New Arrangement
16:07 Timeline and Costs
17:57 New Line Route
19:04 Pickering’s Bid for an HFR Stop
20:30 The Montreal Problem
21:12 Conclusion/Outro
THANK YOU FOR WATCHING!!! SHARE IF YOU ENJOYED AND PLEASE SUBSCRIBE :)
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- Fahad Rehman, Real Estate Broker
TWO UPDATES SINCE THE VIDEO WAS FILMED:
1) The new Siemens trains are now in service on select VIA routes, and they are even nicer than the renderings IRL!
2) They have started the RFQ process for the new private partner and will narrow down to 2-3 potentials by later this year. This is happening!
Thanks for watching!!
They are not electric ... they use diesel, don't they ? this is unacceptable ... it has to be electric ... this proposal is not even a "half-measure" ... I really want HSR, but if it's not electric, it is a big mistake - everybody knows this ...
I myself would like to see a maglev train line from Toronto to Montreal which is a lot faster and greener….I have been exhibiting a fully functional maglev train exhibit that I designed and built a few years ago. I have displayed this exhibit for many years with the organization of OACETT during engineering week…
@@epowerplus we should just let the Chinese come in here and build one from coast to coast ...
@@richardblais5232 Not really, we need to create jobs here…We have the technology and the companies to do it here, just needs additional funding from our governments and the go ahead….I have worked in the aircraft & marine industries for many year and there is no need to contract the work out to other countries….
@@epowerplus Well, we used to have Bombardier build HSR all over the world while being subsidized by the Canadian Taxpayer to protect those Canadian jobs and now we are left holding the bag because Bombardier has flown the coop ... I'm all for you getting the contracts, bro ... but we've been down that road already ... the Chinese built the largest Maglev HSR system in less than 20 years - I'm with them ...
As long as taxpayers money is funding this project it must remain in government hands and run on behalf of the citizens of Canada not be sold off like the 407 to some privatized company we’ve already seen the results of that once before and it upset a lot of Canadians what you did with their money the last time. If a private company wants to run the rail line then let them fund the project 120% not the taxpayers.
Good point about funding!
Gov run infastructure is never that good japan is privately run with gov funding and it has the one of best in world
All public transport should be government run. Who cares what japan does.
FYI, Bombardier is the designer builder of the first monorail in the world. Design & Built for Disney world in 195Os . Canadian Technology that no other country in the world had, or had any Idea about. Bombardier is a Canadian leader in the world of technology & transport. With their invention of the monorail, thrust proportional,i.e seajet, also, snowmobile, skidoo etc.
@@wavelength7503 totally agree the private sector has no business in public transportation sector. These are public lands owned and payed for by the taxpayers of Canada and any new rail ways that are to be built should be built by the government of Canada for the people of Canada and remain as a publicly owned company of Canada.
If a privately owned company wants to come in buy the land from private owners in Canada with their own money not government funded by the taxpayers but with their own money and build a private rail line then by all means go ahead but the government of Canada should not and nor should the taxpayers pay the burden for some private company.
Grade separating all of the roads along the right of way wouldn't be quite as expensive as you make it sound. Altsom recently made a proposition that makes a lot of sense. Their plan calls for running the trains along the existing alignment in cities and only upgrading the long segments in between major cities. The major cost of grade separating would be in the cities, so if we forgo that part, we end up saving quite a bit of money while getting most of the benefits of a true HSR between those cities. An overpass for a 2 lane road is only about 10 to 15 millions at most. Between Montreal and Québec, there's about 150 of those. That means that at most, that upgrade would cost us somewhere between 2 and 2.5 billion. That means that for the entire corridor, we are looking at maybe 5 or 6 billions at most to build the needed overpass to grade separate the track. I think that's within the realm of what could be considered reasonable.
Good point! That’s a solid solution, and that’s where the higher speeds matter the most. Thx for sharing!
The proposal by Alstom is exactly what Japan did when they built the Shinkansen network starting from the 1960s. They built new dedicated stations for the railway and connected them to the local subway network (i.e. Shin-Osaka Station), but when circumstances allow it they simply rebuilt the old downtown stations to accommodate the high speed rail line ( i.e. Nagoya Station) then redeveloped all JNR owned properties around the station to generate more profit.
All you have to do is look at the Northeast Corridor in the US. The NEC, despite being practically grade-separated, still has about a dozen such crossings still in place, all in Connecticut, due to limited space available to build overpasses. In all locations with grade crossings, speeds are held down to under 100 mph (~160 km/h).
In terms of electrification, one has to look at SEPTA's Regional Rail, specifically the West Trenton and Fox Chase Lines. Both lines, formerly owned by the Reading Railroad, was also used by the former Baltimore & Ohio RR for their premier Royal Blue passenger service that connected the Communipaw Terminal in Jersey City, NJ and Washington Union Station in DC. In the 1930's, the Reading electrified their commuter rail lines, lines that also included segments of track used, via trackage rights, by the B&O and its successors (Chessie System and CSX) as well as Conrail, of which CSX acquired 49% of and took over ownership of most of the former Reading trackage. As such, when SEPTA implemented its Positive Train Control systems, and to prevent interference with CSX freight movements and vice-versa, the portions of the West Trenton and Fox Chase Lines shared with CSX were physically segregated from each other. As such, while the CSX trains can pass under the Reading/SEPTA catenary architecture, CSX trains cannot use said architecture as SEPTA (and Conrail) removed said architecture when said tracks were physically segregated. Thus with the right catenary support architecture (which is also used on the NEC in New England between New Haven and Boston), electrified passenger trains and diesel-electric freight trains can co-exist on those short stretches of track, again provided that said tracks are physically segregated.
Like everything else in Canada, any transit improvements takes centuries to be done, while many other countries build things months, what drag this is! many of us will not even be around when they build such HFR or whatever they wanna call it.
For VIA Rail's dissolution, I'm torn... On one hand, they did champion the proposal for 8 years. On the other hand, they're kind of a joke themselves, having airport-like check-in and baggage weighing procedures. If VIA is allowed to continue operating, they'll need to significantly simplify their passenger experience
This is imposed upon them
Fair points!
The more I compare HFR to HSR, I fully agree that the right decision was made. One thing that goes missed about HSR is that the trains only hit the top speed for a small fraction of the trip, and speeds of 150 -200 are far more common, so investing in HSR would not really make the trip much faster anyway.
What's more important is that Via is addressing some of the more important issues that have plagued them for decades: antiquated rolling stock, delays and infrequency due to low priority on the rails, no express routes (seems like the trains stop every 50km. on average, not great when you're on a 500 km trip). It's good to see all of these being addressed.
Just one thing left: get rid of the airline style boarding!
For interest sake, very similar situation in Australia (not G7 but they are G20).
Look here, it is the first company who's done a proposal for HSR. No other done that!
"The Plan To Bring High Speed Rail to the Corridor - Alstom's Proposal for High Frequency Rail (HFR)) // ua-cam.com/video/h4t48YG5FeY/v-deo.html
Yeah the travel time difference looks pretty significant from where I'm sitting.
Paris-Lyon takes 2 hours with maximum track speeds of 270 or 300 kph on 409 of the 425 km route between Paris and Lyon. This is an average speed of 212 km/h. You won't reach anything near that with 200kph rolling stock. The High speed line is also 87 km shorter than the previous intercity line.
Meanwhile the non-stop London to Brimingham intercity also takes 2 hours running on mostly 100mph (160kph and 125mph (200kph) track for most of the way. These trains have top speeds of 200 kph, but the average speed over the 163km route is a measly 82 kph. To be fair, this isn't a new alignement and there are a few short bits along the way where the train has to slow to 90mph or 75mph to blast through a station or a junction.
Let's look at a modern line. Rail Baltica is looking at ca. 150kph (1h planned travel time for ca. 150km of track) on average between Riga and Pärnu, most of that line will be rated for 230 kph.
Of course if you build the line for high speeds of 250-300 at least, your 200kph intercity trains can still use it (Like we do in Belgium with the line Brussels-Liège and also on the high speed track between Antwerp and Amsterdam), so you can give people options. In the case of Brussels-Liege, the line has some 200kph & 220kph sections due to the hilly terrain and it's on 160kph track for the first quarter of the trip. The ICE3 does the ca. 120km trip in 40 minutes (180kph average) whilst the 200kph capable IC train takes 1h05. If we take away 5 minutes for the stop the IC makes in Louvain, we still get 'only' a 125 kph average.
And this distance is a arguably too short for HST to really shine.
In conclusion, looking at the precedents in Europe, the 400km or so taking the train direct between Toronto and Ottawa could take 2 hours probably slightly less with modern EMU-styl HST trains with a true 270-300kph high speed line. It would take just shy of 3 hours with modern electric 200kph stock, and that's if they don't add too many stops on the way. A 150 kph line would take about 4 hours, if not more because they would likely add more stops.
I guess you could go for the budget high speed option of 250 kph which would not be that far off the 270-300kph travel time with a non-stop travel time around 2h20 minutes or 2h30 minutes if you do like rail baltica and limit the line speed to ca. 235kph The fact remains that the more stops you add along the way, the less benefit you gain from a higher line speed. Conversely, the slower the line speed, the less difference each individual stop makes to the travel time, and the higher the temptation to add extra stops for political reasons.
Lets look at how it all compares with flying. If you go with the 150kph option, your travel time is longer than taking the plane for most travellers (including 30minutes before boarding, and a 1h trip to/from the airport.). The 200 kph option is competitive with people flying who have a travel time to/from the airport of ca. 30 minutes on each end if you very generously consider a 15 minute trip to/from the station. Only at 2h30 minutes does the train become truly competitive on travel time, and if you get it down to 2h with true high speed rail, you'll probably reduce the number of flights by an order of magnitude. So really, the question is: Do you want a basic intercity that goes faster than taking your car, or do you want a train that will take lots of short-haul flights out too?
In most countries that average high speed is 200 km/h, you guys are not even hitting the low high-speed. Canada is a joke, especially when compared to even a slow high speed system like in Sweden, Norway. It's all electric! worse choice. Burning more fossil fuels which wasn't needed, the technology for EMU's are decades old.
@Marius Dufour In light of the fact that over 90 million trips by car annually take place between Toronto and Montreal alone, HFR will thus attract far more travelers by car, and even a considerable portion of air travellers, due to its ticket affordability compared to far more expensive HSR.
As such, HFR will reduce our carbon footprint far more than HSR. Period.
I challenge all disbelievers in HFR to take the time to travel to Europe, where the vast majority of travelers by rail (90 percent) actually take regular intercity and regional trains running at up to 200-225 kph as opposed to HSR trains!
So, don't believe the disinformation disseminated towards HFR, a far more affordable, yet effective, and realistably sound project.
@@mariusdufour9186 - I guess, the Question is, if the Roadbed is capable of Multiple Tracks, and offer 2-3 "Speeds" with the lower speeds for serving more stops, with a couple cross points with the high speed lines stops, making fewer stops in the High Speed Lines, like 1-2 between Toronto - Ottawa, for example. Current VIA Rolling Stock could easily serve the slower speed runs, with the newer Rolling Stock serving the High Speed Runs.
It's a huge mistake to compromise this project. Just bite the bullet, build the bridges and tunnels and face the future head on. I didn't notice anyone seal clapping when Pearson put in a half a runway or designed a highway where we could only drive at 50kph. A true high speed line is going to be a benefit for generations to come. As it stands we're going to need to upgrade the upgrade in another generation. Canada is not poor, let's stop acting like it.
Well said. The way I see it, a lot of the passenger rail problems this continent faces today is precisely due to a lack of foresight and stinginess. A mentality this country needs to get over if we are to catch up to the rest of the modern world.
As long as any train reaches the destination within THREE hours, that is sufficient enough to win the competition with the airlines. There is no fundamental requirement to get there faster competing with the airlines. So there is no need to invest ten times more than necessary...
yeah, those bridges have to be build regardless. I hope the alignment gets finalized before I die.
I have travelled to Canada often for tourism and was surprised that passenger trains are so limited. I rode VIA Rail many times and overall enjoyed it even though in Europe trains would be quicker and would have more frequencies. Furthermore, no trains in Calgary and only three federal passenger trains per week in Vancouver. An intercity train from Edmonton to Calgary should have been run since many years. Also, commuter trains should be a service not just for workers but also for people to travel on weekends to visit family, friends and events.
@@CycloideNYC true but there are closer cities that could be better connected like the Québec Windsor corridor and in general the city outskirts as well as Edmonton to Calgary which has no intercity train at all.
Unfortunately the Liberal Party only cares for those living in Quebec and Ontario. Everyone else living in Canada chose the small straw. The Ocean suffers from 30 mph speed restrictions in New Brunswick, the West and the Maritimes don't have daily VIA train services, much less multiple daily services...Yet, despite the brush off, Quebec and Ontario EXPECT everyone in Canada to pay for their goodies they DENY us...
@@sevs17 You know deep down in your heart that the Liberal Party only gives a damn about Ontario and Quebec, the rest of Canadians are third class citizens... Watch the trunk corridor be sold off to foreign investors with another corruption scandal while the rest of VIA vanishes...
Yes, there is legislation here in the USA mandating that passenger service has precedence. However , this legislation is uniformly ignored by the freight companies. In my many cross-country trips on Amtrak, I've had delays of up to 6 hours waiting for freight trains to pass. Let's hope that the Canadian experience will be better.
Will it be "better" when you have supply shortages because of freight trains being delayed?
The freight railroads own the tracks and hire the train dispatchers, not Via or Amtrak outside the northeast corridor. The train dispatchers know who puts butter on their bread, it isn't Via or Amtrak. The solution for passenger trains to have priority is controlling the dispatchers on the tracks they should own...
Amazing video !... and looking forward for more updates. Please keep us inform. Thank you !
Thank you!
The US does have legislation ensuring priority of passenger trains over freight, but, being the US, this law is not enforced, and in practice, (at least in some regions), US passenger trains get the same short end of the stick as Canadian trains.
Very well researched and professionally presented video.
It's actually extremely disappointing that it's not going to be a Class 9 electrified rail for true High Speed Rail, but I suppose it's better than the status quo, which is nothing.
Sometime, there will be a proper high speed rail in Canada, but getting HSR to every city with 50,000+ people in it seems like a project that has to be prioritized to get people out of needing cars or airplanes to travel over land.
Not a fan of public private but I just want more service in Southern Ontario
Nor am I, but let's be honest, DB and Alstom etc are far more equipped + don't have to swing with political winds as a gov only project would. Hopefully a consortium can implement and then hand over to via/ca(n)hsr
Very informative and well articulated video. Your screen presence and timing is enjoyable and easy to watch. Well done!
Thank you!
FYI, Bombardier is the designer builder of the first monorail in the world. Design & Built for Disney world in 195Os . Canadian Technology that no other country in the world had, or had any Idea about. Bombardier is a Canadian leader in the world of technology & transport. With their invention of the monorail, thrust proportional,i.e seajet, also, snowmobile, skidoo etc.
Bombardier Transport is dead now. Alstom take over.
Disney Monorail as an alternatieve for public longdistance transport. Brilliant ingenuity!
@@fbabarbe430 Disney's monorail doesn't run coast to coast... In fact, it doesn't run twenty kilometers...
In Japan their passenger trains are Privately Run (when the Japanese government privatised them back in the 90s, and they currently have one of finest systems in the world. It got successful mainly because their most profitable routes offset the costs or help keep up the still subsidized routes and the well the poor performing routes. In Canada at some point I could see a Windsor to Quebec City Corridor line working and a Toronto Niagara Falls New York State as well as an Ottawa-Montreal New York State connecting line considered. VIA's Canadian, Ocean, and Sudbury-White River, Jasper-Prince Rupert, Montreal-Senneterre Montreal-Jonquière and Winnipeg-Churchill would remain VIA (Canadian Tax Paid at a loss as they are needed) WHB-Editor CRO
Out west the trains are privately run too. They completely cut service to every single passenger route and there is effectively no intercity transport that isn't driving. They kept only the profitable routes (cargo) and cut everything else. It's actually currently illegal to ride an intercity train out of Calgary. Privatization won't help anything since privatization will cause railways to cut the losses and heap on only the profits. What Canada needs to do is treat rail, and dedicated bus lanes, as public infrastructure like how roadways are treated. It would be better to privatize the highways and make rail infrastructure government owned, that way more people would switch to taking public transport.
Japan is the 11th largest population in the world with over 125 million and a population density of 347 per square km. Private, for profit run rail companies probably can make money with that kind of population and density.
Do you want to guess what Canada's population density is? 4 people per square km! Of course, that's including vast areas of uninhabited land, and over 80% of Canadian population live within 100 miles of the US border and 60% live in that Quebec City to Windsor corridor, but still. All of Western Canada which still has people in major population centres can feel even more alienated than they already are if we expect private rail service to make a profit before any expansion of passenger rail happens.
Public services aren't supposed to make profit. The system is all upside down anyways. Nature isn't a bank machine and isn't supposed to be treated like a elitist way for a small group of capitalists to get obscenely rich off exploiting and oppressing. Yet, that's the mad world we live in.
So, those who know better are trying to change the system to something that has a healthy, sustainable structure. Along with it that can come with fast, safe, efficient cross-country rail service. Whatever improvements VIA rail is making, that's all fine, but the more integrated system won't happen until communities take control of their own environment to make their local living more self-sufficient and sustainable. That can be done via collaboration, co-operation and contributionism. See what is happening with the One Small Town strategy from Michael Tellinger. Starting already in towns across the world, including Canada.
The Canadian and Ocean will be the only 2 that survive, they'll be handed off to Cruise Companies probably.
Canada is a much larger nation than Japan where nearly two thirds of the population live within a 300 mile/ 480 kilometer corridor... Tokyo to Kobe... Japan also has nearly four times the population of Canada as well...
Great video and very informative
That was great, I've learn many things. Thanks
Glad to hear it!
I don't think that it is fair to compare the current project to Caliofornia's HSR. Our government is structured differently. Land rights in the US are quite a bit stronger. The project has had to deal with dozens of lawsuits. If you want a project to compare, I think that the REM in Montreal is probably where you should look. That project was announced in 2015, and by 2018, they had shovels in the ground. The first phase will be up and running in just a few months and most of the rest of the network is expected in 2024 with the airport branch being delivered in 2027. Keep in mind that they had to deal with the pandemic and also encountered other problems such as unexploded dynamite in the Mont Royal tunnel and they are still able to deliver that project with only a small delay.
I think that that the HFR or HSR project can realistically stick to a similar schedule. Quebec's government basically wrote a law to insulate the project from lawsuits, and that could easily be used as a model by the HFR / HSR project. This is one of those project that has such a massive impact that you realistically don't want it to be held up in courts for a decade like California's HSR.
Agreed, it's a masterful project. AND I got to see test trains running over the new Champlain on Friday which was really cool!
Very well made video and interesting story. I really hope they can make this happen. I definitely think higher frequency is more important than high speed, and that they actually service the stops on the way. Otherwise you re just directly competing with regional flights.
Thank you! That’s a great point. If it can do that reliably that would be absolutely game changing for us!
I'd argue the opposite way; high frequency and increased usage won't bring us better/faster infrastructure. Conversely, if HSR is built it will bring more use (and maybe the political/funding) for higher frequency. Build it now or never, imo.
@_-_ Yeah that's a good point. It's kind of a chicken and egg scenario. Riders need trains and trains need riders.
@_-_ HFR will provide vastly shorter travel times along with hourly frequencies and far greater reliability than anything we've ever had in this country before.
Take the proposed Toronto-Ottawa HFR route, slated to offer a very palatable travel time of less than 3 hours, will definitely attract both drivers and air travelers to modernized passenger rail far more than our considerably less reliable and slower present rail service.
Since HFR will also offer a level of passenger rail service almost equivalent to that of Sweden's highly-success regular intercity and their so-called HSR rail service also operating at a top speed of 200 kph or 125 mph, there is absolutely no reason as to why the proposed HFR wouldn't also work effectively in Canada!
Contrary to HSR, HFR will, most importantly, also connect small towns and cities located between start and end points so as to offer additional travel options to the traveling public in light of the increasingly disastrous effects of climate change!
Why do we continue to persist in delaying the construction and implementation of HFR, which would reduce our carbon emissions by a factor of 30 to 1 in comparison to a lone occupant in an automobile?
Public-Private partnerships mean taxes fund the project but profits go to shareholders.
Funny how, this video even admits to the cost overruns and lackluster project delivery timelines of these ventures.
We only need to look to the O-train, Crosstown LRT, and the 407 to see how they turned out. Corporations have more incentives to drag a public project out than to finish it on time, or on budget, let alone put any quality into their work. Global companies have no skin in the game. Infrastructure should be run by goverments so the profits can go back into public coffers and be used to maintain it and keep it affordable for all riders. Two things for-profit corporations never do.
Look no further than the public private partnership in Ottawa, the disastrous new light rail system, to see that in Canada PPPs are often worse than Government or Crown corporation run projects. Or look at how Air Canada became worse after becoming a private company. We are not Europe or Japan where they can keep private companies operating public services or utilities accountable and service focused. Here,s what will happen: ticket prices will be jacked up after the hype is gone. They will try to staff with minimum wage jobs and cut service quality. They will find ways to squeeze more seats on those trains. The private operator will do everything it can to leave the debt to the public (socialize the debt) but keep the profits (privatize profits). Canadians will end up having paid for the infrastructure, with the private company giving profits to private equity firms, not reinvesting or giving it back to Canadians.
Fair
I've always wanted to see the CP route from Toronto to Ottawa via Peterborough revived. This would be a great opportunity to avoid the freight train problems.
A good chunk of the old CP has been abandoned. It is not a good idea as it leaves out all the cities between Oshawa and Cornwall.
@@trainglen22 Those cities would be served by the Toronto-Montreal run, I'm assuming.
@@jaygatz4335 the same way that Via kept trains in Brandon, Saskatoon, Red Deer and Calgary. By eliminating service.
I like the prospect of tracks dedicated entirely to passenger rail. But the question is, if that route is so great, why was it abandoned in the first place?
Excellent presentation, I’m all in, let go for it and fast.
As a British Columbia resident who precovid used the Via Vancouver to Toronto both ways and enjoyed it despite freight interruptions and beaten up rail lines in some areas, this doesn't suggest much for that service.
It doesn’t sadly. But we can hope it’s a step towards getting coast to coast high speed rail. That’s the dream! 🇨🇦
High Speed Rail across ALL of Canada is a must... HFR is a step in the right direction but is NOT the best solution for the 21st century... Japan has had HSR since the 1960's... HSR is expensive but DON'T CHEAP OUT... will true HSR be less expensive 5-10 years from now? NO... Canada needs to bite the bullet and do it NOW if we want to be up to European, Asian and third-world rail standards... same goes for the USA...
Hear hear!!! Thx for your comment
Yup. I agree.
Before ALL Canada got the HSR, the way it goes, it will take over 199 years, and the HSR actual system will be a far away over.
Canada doesn't have enough density for more speed rail it just couldn't justify itself in more places
@IndustrialParrot2816 The population density for the Toronto to Quebec City corridor is actually slightly higher than that of France.
As such, there is absolutely no reason to suggest that this HFR project wouldn't be just as successful as similar modernized passenger rail systems such as evidenced in Sweden!
Call me skeptical that we'll ever see a high speed rail in/across Canada. I just don't see this happening. Not in my lifetime. 🤔
Here in the US high speed rail or any type of passenger rail for that matter is almost not existent except for the northeast corridor in which the a Acela line runs, all other trains operated by Amtrak are completely slow and inefficient, while it is true that passenger rails have priority by law, most of the routes are also owned by other freight companies just like in Canada and they rarely comply with these laws and they are not really enforced so the already slow Amtrak trains are delayed often…thankfully the conversation is also happening down here and there are some private attempts at quasi high-speed rail being built down in Florida for instance by Brightline, there is already a lined built from Miami all the way to Orlando which is supposed to start operating later this year with stops in major towns along the way and plans to extend it to the Tampa bay area with a stop at Disney or possibly Universal….there are also talks for high speed rail in Texas as well as a route between Las Veas and Los Angeles…North America really lags behind when it comes to this type of transportation, good luck Canada hopefully you can make it happen
Amazing video and thanks for your work!
Just to clarify, whenever I see a video of this topic, they always blame it on the fact that the tracks are shared between freight and passengers trains, but this is the most common thing in railways and it happens all over the world, the real problem is that the owner of the tracks in Canada and the US are private companies and not the government, as it happens in Europe.
There it is! Private, for profit ruins public good, over and over and over again in this absurd capitalist-driven system. NOTHING we care about will not be negatively effected the longer we run our economy on the capitalist death model. This isn't hyperbole. Capitalism, structurally, is like cancer. Destroys the host on which is lives, unless it is cut out!
We are in the "need to cut out" phase of our human social experiment. The good news is we have strategies and options to get out of this mess and get on to a better track (hah, train joke). The bad news? We need more people to be aware of viable options so they can join in, starting now, this year and on going. There is an initiative called One Small Town (from Michael Tellinger) using the power of collaboration, co-operation, co-ownership and contributionism (a lot of 'c' words) to create communities of abundance and prosperity. This sort of model is voluntary, but very beneficial to those who choose to participate. It also encourages team work and positive values that improve our collective knowledge and can shift us into the future in a more healthy, sustainable way where we advocate and BUILD the things we need, because we know how to and have the will and way to do it.
The Siemens trains are not "next generatiion travel". They are very conventional heavy steel trains with diesel engines that don't go any faster than LRCs could.
In fact the Amtrak Amfleet I and II cars are also rated to 200kmh as is the Siemens trains. And their are older than LRCs (Amfleet II about same age).
Although the LRCs were capable of operating at up to 125 mph or 200 kph, they were never permitted to do so and were limited to 95-100 mph or 153-160 kph.
On the other hand, the new Siemens Charger train sets would operate on HFR dedicated tracks at up to 177-200 kph or 110-125 mph without encountering any freight trains, thereby shortening travel times considerably while also providing reliability up to 95 percent.
Who can argue with that since HFR would provide a level of modernized passenger rail very similar to that seen in Sweden!
@@marclemieux8269 Québec To Montréal via Trois Rivières and without a tunnel to acces Central station adds 40 minutes to trip time unless Park Ave becomes the new main station for Montréal and bypass downtown. Conventional trains will remain faster on St-Hyacinthe tracks (especially of the line were double tracked all the way).
Montréal-Toronto via Ottawa and the old sinuous tracks between Perth and Peterborough will be longer, and it also depends on how fast trains can travel between Peterborough and Toronto.
The Siemens trains being delivered now are heavy steel trains (to meet FRA requireemnts that trains be slow and heavy) and won't get higher speed permissions unless dedicated tracks are perfectly straight. This is a political project for photo ops, this has not been thought through. The fact that the guy who signed the contract for VIA t buy traisn from Siemens then quickly quit VIA to be hired as Siemens Canada CEO says a lot about ethics,
Is there much news on the Windsor to Toronto corridor? This area has a lot of old and abandon rail that has huge potential, and which is underserved. High-speed rail (200km+) usually does a great job to make local and slower rail route more viable.
Unfortunately too many desire to have stops on HSR lines, which should be more an express service, not a local service stopping everywhere. The difference between HSR intercity trains vs slow local commuter trains...
Great video, thank you. Wish these new trains will be sooner here. For all my life in Toronto (4 decades) never took a train ride in Canada, except UP-express and Santa Train. Somehow we always did a road trips with cars.
Very informative video! Lately news seems to show that one of the consortium wants to bypass gare centrale in Montreal, and go to Lucien l'Allier instead. And the more you think about it, the more it actually makes sense. We could foresee a futur where only The Ocean and Amtrak goes to Gare Centrale, and all other train stops at a upgraded Lucien L'Allier station and another station North of Mont Royal connecting to the REM (with very quick transfer downtown, not only to Gare Centrale but also to the much more popular McGill station). Meanwhile, Lucien L'Allier is just a 10 minutes walks from Gare Centrale, maybe not as well located downtown, but has a better connection to the orange line.
That $12B price tag seems crazy reasonable compared to some of the ridiculous costs for the proposed 413 and other new hwys in Ontario ($20B +!), which would be much shorter, move less people and wouldnt reduce traffic as well as trains would! At this point I think we need frequency over anything else! Get a good reliable system in place that people can use and enjoy. Sad to see VIA go though, that part kind of baffles me. It may have been the governments compromise to get it built. Interesting route too, nice to see some Peterborough and Hwy 7 love! Hopefully they have a stop close to our farm in Norwood! Would make it easy to get to Toronto and back without driving!
HFR may not be as much of a express train as HSR, but keep in mind the more stops there are, the slower the average speed, and the longer the train takes to reach its destination... Isn't the goal to reduce the time of rail journeys? If you are going to stop at every town, why bother to increase the train's speed?
Serious engineering ! Good joke.
Three options:
1- building a second tunnel from Central Station which would link up to the Parc sub of CP Rail (bypassing freight lin on Adirondack and Ourremont (lines from their yards in Lachine to the port of montreal, their only remaining customer in Montréal after CP wanted out of Québec completely).
2- Rebuilding the interchange between CP Park and CN Tachereau sub at L'acadie/Sauvé (which existed until the big VIA cutst in 1989) (there is now a Home depot parking lot in the way) and have trains then reach CN's Tachereau yards in Lachine (west island of montreal) go through tjem and then use the Montreal sub to go east to reach central station
3- Get CP to agree to have the HFR Inc trains run on its freight line betwen Parc Sub and Montréal West and either build an interchange to get on the CN Montreal sub (CP tracks go over the CN tracks and there is housing/industries in the way, so lots of exprppriations needed).
Note that the Alstom proposal has their trains use the outdoor train platforms without a station at Lucien l'Allier (where EXO trains have had to stop since CP rail was succesfull in preventing trains from reaching Windsor Station as part of its exit from Québec (the former building was sold to Cadillac Fairview and a hockey arena and office towers quickly built to ensure trains can NEVER EVER retuirn to Windsor Station.
It shoudl be noted that at the time Minister Garneau agreed to donate billiosn to help CDPQ buuild the REM, there was an inderstanding that VIA would be allowed to use the tunnel. This understanding was quicking forgotten but CDPQ kept the billions. Apparent it now owns centra station and it was one of the ones blocking the return of the Amtrak Sdirondack train. CDPQ was origianlly to re-open the 2 leftmost tracks closed after the big via cuts and put ist station whyere the Staples store had been built over. (tracks 5-7 and 7-8 were under the Staples). But didn't tella nyone that it woudl use 9-10 and pour concrete over the space used by 5-6 and 7-8 for its ticket offices. This leaves littel room for VIA or whoever replaces it to run frequent trains downtown. It was a dismal failure of governmenst to allow CDPQ to kill Central station after Montréal had already lost Windsor Station like Penn Station (except in our case, the hockey area was built to block trains instead of built over trains).
High frequency is the easiest thing to lose.
Asalaamu Alaikum, great video my brother
Really informative video. I am from the U.S. and in May took a trip to four Canadian cities by VIA. We rode the new Siemens train from Quebec to Ottawa in late May - I wonder if it is was one of the first runs because the seat reservations we made did not apply. Beautiful train. Second question -- we noticed that when we went in and out of Montreal, the train had to go on reverse out of the station. With the proposed new route, will that be changed. It adds at least 20 minutes to the trip and it seems to be a vestige of earlier construction. Third point -- you are correct in saying that the U.S. has a law that prioritizes passenger rail over freight. In reality, that has not worked well, because freight carriers have often violated the law. A bill was introduced in 2021 to tighten enforcement, but no action has occurred to the best of my knowledge.
Thanks! And glad you liked the new trains! Yeah the Montreal route issue is something that would need to be corrected for the new HFR/HSR line. Not sure how they will do this but it will be well worth the money to get it right!
There is discussion about blasting a new tunnel through Mount Royal for it
@@FahadxRehman
The best and the fastest way to get the HSR in Quebec and Ontario is to be bought by Ontario and Quebec Gouvernement, plus Private investment, and at last with Ottawa ( but not more the 20%). Since over 30 years there is talk to get an High Speed Train.
What stop the start of this project? VIA Rail.
Because it is a Gouvernement crown corporation. They mention since 30 years "It is too expensive" with that hesitation we miss the boat at lower price to have already a HSR!
So, the HFR is also good but for shorter go ans stop ride as it is now, (from Quebec city on South Shore, to Montreal, Ottawa, Kingston,Toronto), but on their own rail system without transport.
We shouldn't forget VIA Rail have plenty of work already with the rest of Canada.
I also think VIA Rail should be completely upgrade, or why not having a private company to handle VIA to be a much efficient system.
As Deutsche Bahn, it operates more than 40,000 train runs daily on its more than 33,300 kilometer-long, modern rail network.
high speed would be better for the long run, but high frequency manages the problems today
Very interesting but it leaves me wondering what will happen to trains like the Ocean, the Sudbury to White River train, the Churchill train, the train to Whistler and most importantly, The Canadian. The equipment used on most of these trains is well beyond its service life and I don't see any plan to replace it. It would be a shame to lose these trains.
If the current pattern is followed these trains will be quietly discontinued. VIA has no interest or desire to provide rail service for the people of Northern Ontario and has chose a route that bypasses all but two communities from Winnipeg hundreds of Kms east of Thunder Bay; much to the joy of the airline industry.
Everything sounded good until they got to the Light Rail..So what they are saying that the Light inside a billion dollar tunnel is more important than a national rail system that has the potential of changing Canada in the years that come? Even higher capacity metro.has a better stake at a tunnel than any light rail transit.
it.s about time. We need high speed rail in the corridor.
Why can't we have stuff like this out west? I'm sick and tired of having to drive everywhere, everyone is sick and tired of tourists driving everywhere, and no one likes commuting 3 and a half hours one way every single day.
I know your pain. The frustration of commuting in bumper to bumper traffic for hours a day, day in day out. In the meantime perhaps you can look into finding remote or hybrid work? Might help your situation.
I've been hearing about planos for HSR from Vancouver to Seatle and Portland. It would be awesome. Hope it becames reality one day.
Thanks for presenting this detailed update on the status of VIA rail and future plans. As for your questions, here are some responses:
Q. What do you think about the plans for high frequency rail? Do you think they should go all in for faster high speed rail?
A. Some improvement is better than none, but when you have such a low bar already for trans-Canada rail service, it is pretty easy to step over that bar. Not impressed. Just seems Canadian government doesn't know anything about building good, safe, effective cross-country rail service, they are just scratching the surface.
They should, of course, go all in for dedicated high speed trains. Expand the routes, include stops in main population centres across the Trans-Canada Highway through Northern Ontario and Southern and Western Canada. They should highly consider Maglev train technology. It isn't impossible, technology already exists and in use in places like China and Japan.
Q. Are you a fan of the public private partnership?
A. No. Public services aren't supposed to be privatized for profit because the capitalist model always cuts corners, cuts jobs, over-works employees and raises rates to try and maximize their profit margins. Look at the USA with their mostly private healthcare system. It sucks hard. Most expensive and least effective healthcare system in the world, except for the elite rich people. Most bankruptcy in the States is due to medical expenses.
Also they are trying this Private Public Partnership crap with schools in Canada and it has been a consistent disaster, overall.
It seems most Canadians don't know how dysfunctional the socio-economic system is. Capitalism is not a sustainable business model. It is a cancer model. It poisons everything it touches until total destruction of the livability of the habitat occurs. This isn't because people, individually, want to poison themselves, their habitat and family, it is just what the structure of capitalism does. It's like getting a wild lion from Africa and plopping it down in the living room as a pet, then being surprised when it attacks you or a loved one. That's not the lion's fault. The lion is doing what it is made to do.
Therefore, we need a conscious SYSTEM CHANGE to go along with any hopes of public infrastructure and social good being increased to sustainable levels. Check out what is happening with One Small Town initiative with Michael Tellinger. One town at a time, one step at a time, using the power of collaboration, co-ownership, co-operation and contributionism to create communities of abundance and prosperity. This is something we can do now, this year and every year going forward. Maybe, in 10 years enough towns are mostly self-sufficient and prosperous, with an educated population, they can advocate for real open-source collaborative design on Maglev high-speed trains across Canada because they know that can be the most safe, efficient technology to use, and it won't be for private profits. It will be for public good.
The issues you mention in Canada are the same in the US. Does Amtrak the legal priority on the tracks? Yes! Is it enforced? NNNOOOOOO!!!!! Freight rail companies don't care since its not enforced, and they own the track. It doesn't help that infrastructure is not progress to today's demands. We have miles longs freight trains trying to fit on old, shorter sidings, it just impractical to pass. Lastly, will it change? I doubt that. No one cares about rail and politicians are corrupted by lobbying. The system will never change. I'm happy that Canada will put money like this towards the betterment of its people. I doubt we will see the US government do something like that
Grade separation has some advantages, especially if trains will be 10+ times an hour (every 6 minutes or less). If going high speed and high frequency, maybe it's worth investing in a technology designed for high speed and for grade separation, like the Shanghai airport train in operation the last 19 years, over 400 km/h regularly, once hit 500 km/h in commercial operation.
Definitely!
Your conclusion includes the word "across the country". The HFR is limited to Québec-Toronto. Does not include any improvements west of Toronto to London, Sarnia etc. Certaintly does not restore transcontinental service. (especially since HEP1 have been declared structurally unsound).
Only one bidder/lobbysist can make it happen: the CDPQ. Because they control the Mont Royal Tunnel, they are the only ones who would bid to make its service use the tunnel without needing to build a second tunnel (and ot clear other bidders would get permission from CDPQ to pass under Place Ville Marie (owned by CDPQ subsidiary Cambridge Ivanhoe) and Central Station (apparently owned by CDPQ or a subsidiary).
This is a power play y lobbyists to get billions in government subsidies to run what is essentially current sercices with new lipstick. The CN Kingston Sub has speed potential far greater than the old CP sinuous line from Smiths Falsl to Toronto.
The fropmer CP line (Now Gennesse and Wyoming short line) linking Québec to Trois-Rivières to St-Thérese has long stretches of straight tracks. Though from intersection of CN freight line from bridge all the way to the port (where the train station is), electrification would be iffy because CN would prevent it.
however, between Ste Thérèse to Parc, the line is certainly not high speed and would need to be double tracked and new bridges built. (current bridge is a gauntlet track ( double tracks within each other but no switches to go over beforre and after single tracked bridge).
The Japanese Maglev is: World’s fastest bullet train The train was clocked at 603 kilometers per hour or 375 miles per hour. To date, China owns the largest HSR system in the world, with a total operating high-speed rail network of 40,000 kilometers in 2021. Via rail compared to both Chinese and Japanese high-speed train systems is like traveling in a horsecart . I had the glory of traveling in Japan, China, and South Korea, and Via Rail will never ever nor even in a million years be able to get near the perfection of the most advanced modern high-speed network. I traveled by Via Rail years ago from Toronto to Ottawa it was a torture and experience only compare to having a tooth pulled. Canada is just a wealthy third-world country.
With the HFR, we remove buses on the road. But with the HSR we remove many cars and many air planes (the biggest polluter of them)
It is very unlikely that large amounts of drivers will make the switch to HSR due to much higher ticket costs in comparison with a HrSR (Higher Speed Rail) type of project such as HFR.
That's the beauty of HFR since it will cater to almost everyone's needs, not just business people, high-end tourists, politicians and the rich!
What's the point of spending huge sums of money on a HSR system if only a select few will be able to afford it?
Contrary to HSR, HFR will also serve small towns and cities located between start and end points.
Although planes damage the atmosphere far more than cars, far more carb emissions can be reduced overall by having a significant number of drivers take the train instead due to far more affordable ticket prices than would be the case with HSR.
And HFR will still offer impressive speeds (up to 200 kph or 125 mph) and travel times (3 hours or less for Toronto to Ottawa) as evidenced in Sweden compared with our present, antiquated, and near irrelevant passenger rail system!
@@marclemieux8269 / But there too many disadvantages with the HFR.
The worst one is Canada with HFR will be the slowest train system in the world at 200 Kmh, in the very closes future. (Lol! Impressive speed at 200 Kmh? 😆 Ha! Ha! )
The HSR it could take 8-10 years before to be finish.
The HSR is for the closed future with many years with alway growing population in Canada.
For over 20 years, the HSR was mention. Yes it is very expensive, nothing is change. But If Canada had decided to get the HSR twenty year ago, it would have been a bargain price et today cost.
Tor-Mtl Average speed now: 5h, / with HFR 4:10h / With HSR 3h
Mtl-Que average now 3.50h // with HFR 3h / with HSR 1h40.
The HFR will be perfect for short ride with many stops. (Mtl-Ottawa, Toronto-Kingston-Montreal, Montreal-Drummondville-Quebec City, Mtl-Ottawa-Kingston, Toronto-Windsor, etc...)
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I'd rather have a far more affordable, comfortable, frequent, and reliable HFR train running at 200 km an hour, connecting far more small towns and cities located between start and end points rather than our present, antiquated and unreliable fleet of Via trains arriving a half-hour or more late almost 50 percent of the time beyond the allotted 5-hour travel time schedule, or HSR, whose construction costs will very likely discourage our federal government from ever funding it, as has been the case over the past 30 years or more!
And what makes you think that most travelers won't be using HFR trains when far more people in European countries (around 90 percent) actually take regular intercity and regional trains than those that embark HSR trains (10 percent).
I personally witnessed this very fact while traveling extensively throughout Germany, for example, whereby mostly business people, high-end tourists, and politicians took HSR trains!
A significant portion of these HSR trains also didn't arrive at their destinations any faster than regular intercity and regional trains simply because a substantial portion of Germany's railways fall into the category of HrSR (Higher Speed Rail), involving maximum speeds of 200 to 225 kph!
At first glance, a 300 kph top speed for an HSR train appears very enticing, but in reality, if this same train only travels at the aforementioned speeds for only a fraction of the time, just like the Acela NEC trains in the US, it simply detracts from the dire need to increase speeds over most of a given network.
That's what the Swedes have decided to focus on, and the result has been a very affordable and successful modernized passenger rail service, that would be the envy of any Canadian!
I highly encourage you to travel to either Germany and/or Sweden to experience for yourself what I just mentioned!
Traveling affordably and competively with HFR at a top speed of 200 kph will sway far more drivers away from their cars, including even some air travellers, rather than far more expensive HSR that will mostly cater to the elite, while excluding the majority of Canadians!
If an HFR-equivalent passenger rail service operates very effectively in European countries like Germany and Sweden, why would HFR not succeed just as well in Canada?
If this project is only serving 2 provinces, then the operation should be funded by those provinces, not the federal government.
When you don't want to drive that dam 401 in a storm sit back and have a drink.
😂😂
Very well done video !
are they anticipating an increase in housing development around the train stations?
What about all the current rail line where the government spent millions and billions of dollars building New Train Stations what’s going to happen to those if they change the route ??? Bad planning
Thank you! Yeah definitely, anywhere that ends up hosting a station stop will see an influx of residential and commercial development in the surrounding area. It's part of why some communities oppose it, but I think as a province and nation we are long overdue!!
No real solution for passenger rail will come to Canada until the discution get serious on zoning. The low density being the norm makes it very difficult to trains to work to their full potential. If one has to drive to the station to get a train, in many cases he will prefer just continue on his car all the way to his destination.
Canadas population centers are basically on an East-West line. Two main routes would be😮 sufficient. In the US, 6 North-South lines and 4 East-West lines would do.
Very informative. Would like to know if the new cars will be available to ride between Toronto and Quebec City before the new high speed tracks are laid.
You were silent on points west of Toronto to Windsor, a lucrative and popular part of the Windsor-Quebec City corridor. It includes major cities such as Kitchener/Waterloo and London as well as an opportunity to tie in the Toronto Pearson airport thus eliminating the need for a second extremely expensive airport in the area in Pickering.
A high speed cross country bullet train is needed.
I can't help but be disappointed that they want to only build all new track and can't come to terms with CN/CP. A lot of developed countries in the world simply run dedicated passenger/freight tracks alongside each other. I'm from Russia around Moscow and freight tracks would just go in the same corridors on 3rd and 4th rails and bypass the stations. It's not a difficult thing!
Additionally, I recently took a train to Toronto, it went directly there without a stop in Ottawa. Funny thing is that the track there is mostly straight and the only grade crossings are small roads - all the major roads already go above. Why wouldn't they just partner up with the owners of those tracks and build 2 more rails for freight trains to run on? Most of the corridor has ample unused space around it, it really shouldn't be a big deal in theory...
Need a dedicated passenger train railroad, too many derailments clogging up freight railroads across Canada.
@@DavidHalverson well, this corridor doesn't have many actually. And if they build additional tracks, they'll also maintain the existing ones -> fewer derailments. My point still stands
The VIA locomotivces being sent to VIA are NOT dual-mode. They are diesel only. Whether they could be converted to dual-mode to equate the dual models that Amtrak will be ordering remains to be seen. This would require major changes to the coupling with permanently coupled first passenger car with the pantographs and electrical control systems to be able to operate on multiple voltages. (VIA would get the same model/variant as Amtrak is getting).
"They are diesel only." that is a very negative point, they forget what is pollution!
They were supposed to be dual mode capable at some point ie reasonably able to be converted to electric
"Supposed to" is the keyword. I recall seeing the RFP from VIA that had that stipulation. When the diesel Chargers were done, Siemens claimed they were derived from the ACS-62 electric locos (which came from the European Vectron line but downgraded for US standards). Yet, when Amtrak actually orders bi-mode locos, Siemens solution is to put the electrical stuff on a separate carriage (business class car to be peranently coupled to loco) and have the loco remain diesel, except for ability to drive motors from the busines class car power instead of diesel generators. I would have fully expetted to have seen proper dual mode locos offered. @@ScotMatheson
Looks like the 407 . Give it to private companies that raise prices for profits. Do we want this again?
Yeah if the 407 is any example of the government spending billions of dollars in infrastructure and then selling it to a privatized company for one dollar what a waste of taxpayers money and that should never be allowed to happen. As long as taxpayers money is funding the project it should remain in government hands and be run by the government on behalf of the citizens of Canada
Fair point! I agree that the 407 sale wasn't appropriate. An important difference between this and the 407, though, is that the gov't genuinely has zero experience running (and making decisions for) a self-sustaining and world class high speed rail system. With the 407, we already had all the systems and expertise needed to run and maintain the highway. Selling, especially for that little, didn't make any sense.
A full blown high speed rail system on the other hand... can't say I'd expect great outcomes from 100% govt run. As of right now it appears the feds are going to be retaining a good chunk of ownership versus a full blown sale or lease, like the 407.. so at least there's that!
Cheers & thx for your comment!
@@FahadxRehman Really your ok with tax payers money being spent then selling the rail line to one of those bureaucratic buddies in Parliament just like the 407 wake up and smell what you’re shovelling.
As a Swiss-Canadian living in Switzerland and seeing what privatization has done to Germany’s rail and many other rail companies in Europe, I would conclude that privatization is a bad move. Mobility is vital for economic development and should therefore be public. I would also make the investment for the fastest lines possible because that is what future generations will want. Invest once correctly and not two to three times. Public transport like trains only succeeds when it is faster, more reliable, more comfortable and in the end more affordable than the alternatives (cars or planes). Half measures will therefore be a waste of money.
Great speaker. Very clear
Thanks!
It's about time we had high speed trains in the corrodor, with no frieight train delays,
Very well produced promo video. Have watched several others covering other regions in North America. This one, like most of the others, shys away from one key variable--what will be the price point for the consumer and will that be competitive with projections for air and road at the time of completion. In most case rail comes out far, far more expensive.The massive infrastructure and operating costs preclude any other option. The combination of high frequency of flights and (ironically) better rail conections to the airports, as well as competitive pricing will keep air in the forefront.
All in -- faster high-speed rail. The population growth we have seen in the last year will only continue if not accelerate. Planing should be for the ulitmate design rather than an intermediate. We'll be saying - 'could have should have" as soon as the project starts operation. Build for where we are going. More immigration (population growth 60B by 2050 as the High growth scenario), more density (build before it becomes to congested), higher cost liquid carbon fuels (so electrification needs to be build in from the start - carbon tax on diesel fuel will be well past the $175/ton by then), higher realestate costs in these major cities, so we need to connect a larger geography.
It doesn't need to all be built at the same time, but there needs to be a long term plan to secure the Right of Way to accomodate these projects.
The planning for expansion north and west should also be included in privatization of VIA. The ownership of the rail ROW shoudl be kept in the ownership of the Federal agency with long term lease to the new entity. A few thoughts ....
Extremely valid points! I agree 🙌
The most realistic option for Montreal is to not bring the train to Gare Centrale. I'm sorry, but that's just the cold hard reality. Building a new tunnel would easily cost a billion just for the first few hundred meters because they would need to go through the basements and foundations of skyscrapers. It is doable, but it would cost way too much and take way too much time. The most realistic option is to put a stop north of the mountain, most likely at Canora where passengers would be just a 5 minute ride from the city center. Many European cities have similar setup and we should not shy away from using a similar setup if it makes sense.
A good idea. TGV-Avignon and Shin-Osaka are fine examples of HSR stations located away from a city's center.
To be honest, Via Rail has a lot to improve... but that said, I trust them to manage this project much MORE than the Government of Canada. And while yes, there is a private industry element to this, the fact that Transport Canada has their hands deep into this is just frightening. Just me?
Dedicated passenger rail priority. High speed intercity rail between Edmonton/Calgary, Toronto/Montreal and maybe something to connect without much stopping or delay between Ontario and Alberta.
Instead of a high speed train I would prefer a ultra luxury 5 star train that takes passengers from Toronto to Florida or Las Vegas ... California .
It's likely that VIA Rail will not be axed in it's entirety, at all.
The Subsidiary will be 51% owned by VIA, and 49% owned by either JR West or Deutsche Bahn (the only two in the running, unofficially), it will still be branded as VIA, but run from this subsidiary.
Wrrong about Amtrak in the US, by law, yes freight trains are supposed to yield to passenger trains but in practice it NEVER happens as there is no enforcement or penalty mechanism.
I'm glad I'm close to retirement because the new corporate structure will kill Via and all passenger rail service for Kingston, Ontario. I currently use Via to get to/from Dorval and Via/UP Express to get to/from Pearson. But - I still think this won't happen.
Technically, VIA's shareholder is the crown of Canada (hence crown corportation). It is the government as a whole that owns the shares, not Transport Canada.
Great explanation and presentation, thanks and you have a new subscriber. I'm curious how western Canada's rail service will survive without support from the 95% revenue which our eastern citizens shared?
The PPP provides the opportunity for the consortium to earn money from development around stations. If such stations also are regional rail hubs, it could be quite lucrative. If I was Transport Canada, I would be looking at some scheme where instead of providing funds, development rights are given instead.
I will not take a ride on this train in my life time. Not holding my breath. Takes too long for governments and cities and contractors to get there stuff together.
Never mind passenger trains - when are we updating the freight trains we use?! They're 30-50 years old, loud as heck, and ridiculous. Squealing their way through residential areas, meanwhile, studies on their impact on health and wellbeing are finally being done that show the considerably negative impact the have! And they always go through and near poor areas, this is a form of discrimination and it needs to be addressed!
Windsor - Quebec City = 1200km, trackside population = 12 million.
Beijing - Shanghai = 1200km, trackside population = 70 million.
We don't have the population density for high speed rail in Canada.
The electrified HFR project goes through cottage country in Ontario and would wipe out passenger service to the Lake Ontario towns along the CN mainline. It's a con job by a big engineering firm with a sketchy record of corruption.
Given that most of the via trains don't exceed 100kph for various reasons, simply raising the speed to 177kph is an enormous improvement.
Most Via trains operating between Toronto, Ottawa, and Montreal actually do hit 100 mph or 160 kph, although very infrequently due to freight train congestion on privately-owned tracks.
Otherwise, it would have been still possible to obtain travel times close to 4 hours between Toronto and Montreal running at 100 mph or 160 kph most of the time!
That's the main problem that Via Rail has had to contend with ever since CN was sold off as a crown corporation to private interests (still called CN), who have no wish whatsoever to accommodate Via passenger trains on their network, unlike other advanced countries like Germany that own their rail infrastructure.
That's the beauty of HFR whereby its new, modern trains would operate almost exclusively on dedicated tracks at top speeds of up to 200 kph or 125 mph, thereby reducing travel times considerably just like the regular intercity and so-called HSR trains in service in Sweden, both of which are very similar in speeds to the proposed HFR in Canada!
This project thinking from 2015 to may be completion by 2035 is such a slow process. The tickets, if affordable, could see people shift from the road
Its quite sad that bombardier got rid of their train division. It would have incredible to have seen a Canadian high speed rail built completely in canada
I traveled by Via Rail years ago from Toronto to Ottawa it was a torture and experience only compare to having a tooth pulled. Canada is just a wealthy third-world country. I had the glory of traveling in Japan, China, and South Korea, and Via Rail will never ever nor even in a million years be able to get near the perfection of the most advanced modern high-speed network.
@@victormendez8811sure with more inhabitants in Canada the smallest country compare to them.
Shame on us.
Another issue is that the design of current passenger rail platforms in Canada *triples* the length of time that a train must sit at each station, and increases the number of staff who are required to support passengers as they board and detrain. On European lines, even those that are not high speed, all platforms are at the level of the floors of the passenger cars. That means that every door on all cars can be opened simultaneously and passengers do not have to be corraled before being permitted to line up. It further means that passengers can simply drag their wheeled baggage onto the train. Finally it means that disabled passengers do not have to be humiliatingly assisted to board by *FORKLIFTS*. The excuse for why the platforms are over a metre lower than the passenger cars is because high platforms would allegedly obstruct *FREIGHT* operations.
Furthermore in Europe HSR directly serves hub airports. This eliminates the need for short-haul spoke flights. When new airport terminals were constructed in Canada in the 1960s they were both at YYZ and YYL constructed *one kilometre away* from existing passenger rail lines. In Toronto a commuter rail line now connects the passenger rail line to the airport, but it follows a contorted route because it has to squeeze around the roadways for passenger vehicles, and therefore must crawl along the sharp curves. Potential clients from south-western Ontario must travel for several km past the airport to Weston station, then switch to the airport commuter line to get back to the airport. And they must haul their baggage up and down the intercity rail ladders because of the pointlessly low platforms, except for *one train* each way a day provided by GO Transit bi-level cars.
I heard they are thinking of making high speed rail between Edmonton and Calgary, and I was wondering if there's any talk of linking Vancouver into all this?
Not at this time! Would be nice to see some co ordination though.
I will point out that VIA Rail cannot donate to politcal campaign.
It seems like this train is already outdated today, but won't be ready before 2030. It also seems like it will serve eastern Canada exclusively. It's disappointing as usual. Trains in Germany for example, run at speeds over 300 km/h. Now that would make a real difference when competing with air traffic. But this is Canada, a slow developing country. Too bad.
And For VIA. The Prices Are Out Of This World.
It's no longer the Quebec - Windsor Corridor, it's going to be the Québec - Toronto Corridor. Southwest Ontario, the final 400 kms, will have to go begging to the provincial government for better train service (expanded GO?) in the rustbelt. Stellantis and Volkswagen may be regretting their recent investments in this region. Also, thre federal political cost will be high for HFR, especially in western Canada.
Western Canada - With All the Big Bumps (Mountains) Might need help from "The Boring Company" Type Tunnelling Services - if they want more Train connections! Or - they could make it simpler for Light Aircraft Charter and Schedule Flight Services to Operate. Airports with Rail Service - both for Freight and Passengers - are great interconnects to get around those Mountains.
Also - More "Short Line Links" - in Rail, would be great to interconnect old BC Rail Lines, CNR Tracks, and CPR Tracks, for example. Like Lytton (CPR/CNR) to Lillooet (Old BC Rail - I think now owned by CNR), Along the Fraser River.
Basically - most "New Rail" Lines were last build 50-100 Years ago, or More! It is obviously Tough, to build limited Grade Slope Roadbeds, for Rail, when mountains go up and down so steeply! Way Too May Kids Getting Silly Degrees, instead of things like Construction, Surveying, Engineering (Civil, and other), to refresh the skill sets needed for long future development of such long running programs as these!
Here in Peterborough would make way more sense for an intl. Airport. We already have an a large enough airport and rnwy to handle 737s and A320s. And we are already doing monthly charter intl flights to Texas, Nashville, amd New York with the boeing 737-800. Pickering you would have to take away green space and build a completely new airport. Pickering is already so close to Pearson. Now is the time to invest in our rapidly growing city. With HFR possibly coming here soon and hopefully more intl and domestic flights not through a charter company please Porter or Nolinor airlines setup a hub out of here. Crazy to think since my 28yrs alive this city has changed and double in size. Airport going from a 5000ft rwy to 7000ft. Flying colours seting up a massive maintenance and painting facility for private jets ranging from challengers, lears, crjs and Senca school of aviation building a giant training center. And now modern what we like to call GTA style glass condo buildings the poke out over the skyline.
I think this discussion should include more about how Northern Ontario, Manitoba, SK and Alberta have so little passenger train coverage. As the Federal Govt subsidizes rail more, that will just exacerbate the unfair funding that sees Alberta dollars build up Quebec.
Super fair. Absolutely neglected in all of this, to all of our detriment. Perhaps covered in future vids!
Just pass the costs to build it on to the passengers. They are trying to kill the California highspeed rail system. Once people see the benefits, there ain't no stopping it.
What of the existing lines through Belleville, Cornwall, etc? Will the service there erode? How about rail between Calgary and Edmonton?
177 km/h is still relatively high-speed... in most European countries, 160 km/h is the limit for traditional track-side signalling, the speed which when exceeded, the rail driver is no longer reliably able to discern/read trackside signals/limits... so above that they use lets say LZB in Germany, TVM430 in France/UK or ETCS which is being rolled out gradually... in US on Northeast Corridor, ATC and ACSES are used for just about anything, but those arent dedicated highspeed systems... that being said, in-cab signalling is the way to go in high/higher speed rail :)
This is the problem with Canada right now - lack of vision! When I was a kid we built EXPO in three years, a massive, massive project which became the world's most successful World's Fair in history. At the same time we built a whole new state of the art Metro system in Montreal along with a whole expressway network. We didn't yammer on about the cost - we just built it. Canada is a G7 country with almost double the population of Taiwan - and yet Taiwan has had a high speed rail hundreds of kilometers long for almost two decades! Spend the money - it's worth it for a fast growing country like Canada. It will create good jobs and juice the economy as well as restoring pride in our country. No one wants a half-assed half high speed rail - it's like a project for losers, for second-best.
Completely agree! Where is that vision that wanted to build the tallest tower in the world? Among the other items you mentioned as well.
We had visions. Excavated rocks from Métro tunnel construction was thrown in St Lawrence river for Ste Hélène island expansion. The´ Expo 67 and La Ronde were builted.
Today you can´t even throw a stone in the river. You know fish, frog algea....you could kill biodiversity.
It´s a big NO NO !
@@danielfantino1714 Exactly - since when should animals take precedence over the #1 animal - human beings?!
@@BrianBaileyedtech well, now humains are not animals anymore. In the nature, all animals are mâle or female. Some exceptions like snails have both,
Us it´s better, you can change, short term or permanently or depending on your mood. Quite an evolution over nature that choose for you. Aren´t we the master of all species ? ´next step to conquer is self procreation like tomatoes . Don´t need a partner anymore. Being a veggie is may be our next step in the evolution of mankind or womenkind....or whateverkind.....
I think the 177 kph system will most likely be the victor for a very legitimate reason. While one can argue improving the current system has economic benefits, the additional benefit to be derived by a system with all class 7 or above tracks is marginal yet ballistic in cost. Every additional speed gain above that 177 becomes more and more costly. Furthermore after decades of underfunding the military, essentially showing little respect , the current needs of the military are very high,so maybe the best compromise is the 177 level for now. But yes if possible ,the higher std would be nice. Remember one thing though, the needs of the Canadian and US markets differ from a more densely populated place such as Europe
Yes,it is a step,but number of trains is severly low,it shiudl be somethink like 20-35
The folks in Calgary, southern Saskatchewan and Vancouver Island might not agree. Although I now live out west I used to live in the Durham region and know the line of which he speaks. The CP line runs through central Toronto and Leaside and doesn't connect with the CN line. The now-abandoned line to Peterborough runs directly through the CP freight yard in northern Scarborough. BTW, speaking of financing this project finding a private investor should be fun. Everybody knows where the financing will really come from and should the taxpayers (especially the ones that I mentioned at the beginning) who don't happen to live between Windsor and Quebec City be expected to pay for any of this? If so, why? In Europe the cost is split between the many countries of Europe and in Japan the volume of travelers is enough to make such a plan viable. BTW, I’ve always been a fan of rail transportation.
It's nice to dream but...
Politicians are not really buying into this, Chretien and others talk about it and nothing happened. Canada is not a serious country.
Darn , I wont be alive by the time this is realized.