I once visited a part of my city that I hadn't previously and was looking for somewhere to park. Pulled into a car park before realising at the payment machine that they didn't take cash - which was all I had with me. Pulled straight out again and went in one across the road that did take cash, but have been getting chased by that first car park ever since. I refused to pay on principle, but delighted to learn that the law agrees with my principles on this occasion. Thank you!
I'm still waiting for an sms to get onto the payment app for one of those car parks. It's been 2 months! It wasted 15 mins and the nearby cash car park was almost full up when I got there. No penalty ticket for 15 min trying to accept their terms and pay. If they accepted payment it probably wouldn't have been nearly empty.
You don’t need a drivers License unless you are a commercial traveler! That means if you go from A to B without making any money it’s Travelling, do you Really think that the traveler community has a driving license between them, think again, they can’t take their kids because they don’t Register Them Over To The Government!!! As soon as you Register you are giving it to the government no matter what it is, car kids whatever! Makes me sick there’s still people that think the law of the land don’t apply? Wake up
@@chrisdaniels3929 don’t pay them take it to court, let a 3rd party Try collect the money and you can tell them to go away from your property or arrest them for harassment. We can arrest the police and anyone who says different on here don’t know what they are talking about. We are the law and everyone stood up to these muppets we would be so much happier rather than pay mugs like this to fill people with BS because they don’t know how to break down the Words, that’s what gets me out of the court room every time they don’t like me for some reason I don’t know why? Maybe because I know what I can say and what I need to say, they then have to pay me for My Time as you would pay for a solicitor or barrister! Both a total waste of time and money, if a barrister was that good why do they loose cases? Get yourself a blacks law dictionary 6 or up! They Don’t Care for anyone, It’s Money For The Greedy Freemasons 💯💥👊🏼
I think the majority of this is the parking company "trying it on". There are bound to be a few folk who'll pay it just to avoid all the hassle. So the company had learned to send out a PCN for anything they can in the hope that some won't question it. On the few occasions I've had to deal with this kind of thing, the company hasn't put up hardly any resistance and just cancelled the charge which leads me to believe it's something they have to do quite frequently.
Car parking company manager, "We run and monitor the car park to ensure appropriate use and to minimise obstruction on the public road." Judge, "Rubbish, tell the truth." "We maximise every opportunity to extort money out of the public."
So according to the 1937 definition ....you can pull into a parking space, climb into the back seat, and sleep for 24 hours....and you haven't "parked"....hmmm... bit out of date methinks.
Had something similar at an Aldi. Limited to an hour and a half free parking, there was roadworks outside that took me twelve minutes over the limit due to traffic queues. Recieved a PCN about a fortnight later. It took three letters and a note from the store manager for them to rescind it!
I had one from Tesco, they said I parked for 9 hours when in fact all I did was use their fuel station in the morning and come back to the shop at night. Luckily for me I had used a Tesco for my lunch 50 miles away and so it was rather easy to prove, but it shows a rather large hole in their detection systems and that they were using cameras from traffic lights 100 meters down the main road away from the shop which for me opens up potential privacy issues.
The bigger question is when did car owners give dvla the permission to share our information, god knows I have looked and a reasonable person can’t seem to find where I allow dvla to share my details
We didn't, but the law does. Regulation 27.e of the Road Vehicles (Registration and Licensing) Regulation 2002. 27.-(1) The Secretary of State may make any particulars contained in the register available for use- (e)by any person who can show to the satisfaction of the Secretary of State that he has reasonable cause for wanting the particulars to be made available to him.
I'm a PH driver, and it went around all the local taxis that, suddenly, if you were waiting to pick up from the local retail park, you would get a fine if you didn't 'park' Trouble being, spaces near to entrances being available for our customers, who often have babies/disabilities or are old.
Strangest one was a few years ago at the railway station car park. There had been a snowstorm overnight , so when the commuters arrived in the morning to catch the train the car park was under 4 inches of snow. The weather warmed up during the day and heavy rain melted the snow. On returning several drivers founded they had been ticketed for not parking between the white lines properly.
Interesting. In my city, some of the car parks attached to large indoor shopping complexes require you to take a ticket when you enter the car park at the boom gate entrance - then you park your car & take the ticket with you. After you've finished your shopping, you go to one of the parking stations on the same level where you've parked your car (usually located at the exit points of the shopping centre on each level), insert your ticket, then the machine tells you how long you've parked for & calculates the parking fee/charge. You then pay that parking fee by cash or card, & the machine gives you a ticket indicating you've paid the fee for the time you've parked there. The system then allows you a bit of extra time to get to your car & exit the car park - & upon exit at the boom gate, you insert your ticket & the boom gate allows you to exit. This sort of system I feel helps to avoid "overstaying" at a car park & incurring a fine/penalty - because you don't "pre-pay" for a fixed period of parking - you just pay for whatever amount of parking you actually use. Usually at these shopping centre car parks, there's at least one hour of parking for free - so if you enter the car park & cannot find a vacant parking spot, then exit - you're not charged anything. Also, if you want to take your time to read the terms & conditions for parking there - you have time to do so (during that 1 hour of free parking) without needing to pay for parking. Or if you manage to get your shopping done within that 1 hour of free parking - then when you go to "pay" for your parking at the parking station before leaving - the system recognises (from your parking ticket/card) that you have been there for less than 1 hour. So it does not actually charge you anything - but gives you a ticket which will allow you to exit the car park through the boom gate exit.
Hi Daniel that could have been me you were talking about at the start of your video as you described my current predicament exactly. Great advice in this video thankyou. I'm hoping with the action I've taken its been stayed.
I remember going to a parking station, but after doing a route of the premises found no where to park. On exit 10 minutes later the attendant ask for money. With luck, I said "give me a parking spot right now".
I suspect sometimes the company has used an automatic number plate reader to record someone entering the carpark and because they haven’t paid assumed they parked without paying. When they may not have parked at all. Computer says no. We got that a lot in New Zealand.
I had exactly the same issue at a car park in Cornwall, I drove in and drove round the car park looking for a spot to park but there were no free spaces so I left. Then I got a PCN from the company wanting £160 for parking without a valid parking ticket being displayed. I pointed out to the company that I had not parked but just driven around and exited, using the same argument as you pointed out that to be parked I must leave my vehicle in a designated parking bay but the company insisted that I was still liable for the fine as I had entered the car park. I was not happy with their reason so raised the issue with POPLA, the independent appeals service, stating that, in fact, the owners of the car park were actually charging me an entry fee and not a parking fee and if that is the case then there was no signage stating that by just entering the carpark I have agreed to their Ts & Cs of parking. Needless to say, my PNC was canceled.
you could even leave you vehicle in a parking bay, go to buy a ticket, see the outrageous price, decide not to park there and leave, you didn't park there. but the leaving part can only be leaving your vehicle in the car park and you leave the car park area.
I have had a strange situation where the signs outside a carpark said "Buy a ticket before you enter" Another huge signs outside stating that "You cannot stop here" (it was a main road). I'm not allowed to stop outside and I'm not allowed to enter without a ticket. What if I do buy a ticket and there are no spaces?! I then saw that the "minimum charge (non-refundable)" was £5. What a scam!!!
This is the problem with ANPR cameras, it assumes you have parked. There is if I recall a grace period but 10 minutes is not really sufficient in a busy car park. The other issuse it these system put the liability on the vehicle, this come to light if a driver parks in a car park for less than the time limit etc.. then on getting a partner takes the vehicle and unbeknownst to the firdt driver returns to the car park withon the non-return period. Yet arguably the contract applies to each drier but the liability will be judged on the registration of the vehicle. This along should negates ANPR being valid and require a patrol and ticking in person.
I once got a pcn at Fistral beach from Parking Eye for being 10 minutes late leaving. I ignored the pcn and got 5 or 6 increasingly aggressive letters. Ignored them all and they gave up.
Interesting. I've not had one several times when I probably should have. Some areas have zero mobile signal to renew if you take longer. Those I'd be tempted to pay. Maybe 😂
I went to Sainsburys TWICE on the same day and received a notice saying I was PARKED for 4 and half hours. Their supporting photos showed my car at the actual exit of the car park at 2 different times. The position of the car was blatantly different in the 2 images 😒. I appealed calling them frauds. Notice cancelled 😁
I visited an NCP Car Park in Cardiff a few months ago, the *only* reason I chose the car park was that it had charging spaces for my EV. I parked and tried to start a charge and soon discovered both of the chargers were faulty, so I got back into my car and went elsewhere. I was in the car park for about 12 minutes in total and NCP obliged by sending me a PCN. To their credit once I explained the situation and showed the online 'receipts' for the two failed charges they waived the charge but stated it was a one-off goodwill gesture.
1:03, Personally I would consider parking as 'stationary in a designated area, with handbrake applied, 3:20, again just dropping a passenger off to pop into a shop etc, whist the driver , who has by definition not left the vehicle, sits in the car stationary I'd consider parked since again I'd expect the handbrake applied... with regards car parks, should be made mandatory that all terms, conditions and tariffs need to be plenty and clearly visible, so the average driver can read them without leaving their car, or car parks using automatic number plate recognition or pay and display..depending on the size of the car park a free 5-15 minute free time
Ignore the fines. They send six letters then in most cases they stop. If you go to court just say you have never had letters from them and it will get thrown out.
Silly. Ignore legal letters and then claiming you didn't get them is fraud. To put this here is doubly silly. And you could find that the court disbelieves you and allows the company's case.
@mandellorian790 It's not a fine and yes they can claim for payment of it. The issue fee for county court proceedings is next to nothing and they are recoverable along with the charge if successful. Apart from being wrong in every respect, that was a great response.
@@mandellorian790 If the company had no case, then you can challenge it and win. BUT, if someone followed your advice, they could easily find themselves having to pay out, because, if a case is unchallenged, then, usually, the prosecutor wins by default.
I got a PCN when I drove onto an industrial estate, stopped to answer a call from my wife as she was at Manchester Airport and I was picking her and my daughter up. I didn’t know it was patrolled by a company called Horizon that charge if you ‘park’ on there. In my opinion I wasn’t parked. I just stopped to answer my call. Next minute a car pulls up and a bloke gets out and takes a photo from behind of my car to which I got out and asked him what he was doing. He quickly took a picture of a lamppost and jumped back in his car whilst ignoring me. I was pretty pissed off and so took a picture of his car before he drove off. Few weeks later I get a letter with the picture of my car and the notice, which I didn’t actually notice of the notice on the lamppost. £60 to pay up within two weeks or £100 if I don’t. I appealed, lost and paid the £60 reluctantly. I wasn’t parked, just stopped. Should i have paid? I didn’t want to bring bailiffs to my house tbh. But i’m fecking angry about these charlatans. Should be illegal imo.
Depends who is issuing the PCN, if it is a parking company then it's not a fine it's an invoice. From there on it is a battle of nerves. I got a PCN from a parking company that was issuing permits to non residents of a building, the residents were unable to find out where to get a permit from. We just waited it out, and they gave up when I asked to be heard in a court 120 miles away.
Where I live in Australia - the State of Victoria park is defined as follows "park, in Part 12 and for a driver, includes stop and allow the driver's vehicle to stay (whether or not the driver leaves the vehicle)" This is the same as you are suggesting except it covers you remaining in the vehicle as well.
A few years one of my doctor friends got a local authority car parking fine for overstaying in a car park whilst 8 months pregant, because she couldn't cycle to work like she did. The patient surgery overran, as it often does. They wouldn't accept the mitigating circumstances. So I tried to persuade her have a big notice in her surgery saying any council employee had exactly 8 minutes with their doctor and would be charged £100 extra if they went over their allotted time. It would be interesting how the council and the employees would react to that.
Thornton v Shoe Lane Parking Ltd [1970] is the contract law case that I would use! That's why companies have to give the 10 to15 minutes grace period!!
The parking regulator which most operators have signed up to gives you 10 minutes to read the terms & conditions before you have entered into a contract.
As a courier in London working on an open circuit for 5 years I had to know the parking regulations in a 'Poacher makes the best gamekeeper' way, knew the difference between parking, loading, stopping and waiting, recieved over a hundred tickets and after appeals and, on two occasions the next tribunal step, paid three! One Friday late afrernoon I had a delivery to a multi occupancy building at the top end of the city road (red route) at the Angel, Islington and whilst sitting in the middle of the carpark with my keys in the ignition, ready to move if anybody needed to get out, awaiting a space at the loading bay the jobsworth caretaker (?) pointed to a no parking sign and told me to move or be clamped as I was causing an obstruction. I told him that if he clamped me I would get out, lock the car and go home on the tube and he really would have an obstruction problem as well as a small claim for loss of earnings for each day that my car was in storage as I WASN'T PARKED! Not only that, he would have to explain to the company I was delivering to why they wouldn't be getting their next batch of work!
Also on parking. I had a parking fine on reading it were they say it was parked was false as I was in another carpark waiting my doctors appointment. As it was checkable whether they did I don't know but in the end I was let off the fine because wrong carpark was on notice.
I went into one once but didnt park and got a private contract ticket. I found that due to the industry rules, they can only seek to take the driver to court. As it happens I displayed an L plate and my student was obviously of a different sex to my self. Given data protection and the fact the company was not the police and it was on private land, I was not obliged to identify the driver. This reulted in no ability for the company to sue the driver as they could not know who the driver was. Case closed.
I drove down a blind street, unaware that it was a blind street, and entered a car park at the far end, that had no barrier, to do U turn and exit. As I was conducting my U turn a guy ran over and stepped in front of me and brought me to a stop. He was trying to prevent me from leaving while demanding monies. I told him I was not parking but simply doing a U turn, as if he couldn't see that, but he insisted. I told him to eff off, to get out of my way or I would move him. He moved and I left. My question is whether the "stopped" element of the "parking" definition would be valid if someone forces you to stop in that way. Particularly if it is an employee of the car park who has a vested interest in bringing you to a halt in order tp get money out of you.
A Very good question and one that with Dashcams now has a perfect defence as well... The answer is NO in my view... I am not a Lawyer though! However, In your case - As you were FORCED to stop by a Person claiming to represent an Authority - ABSOLUTLY NOT! Your intentions were clear... Preventing you from moving is LEAGLLY AN OFFENCE - So in fact they would be in breach of the law! I believe it is classed as "Reckless Endangerment / Behaviour" as they are wilfully placing themselves in a position where they could come to harm.
I'd also like BBB view on the split parking areas operated by 'different companies' Near me are two DIY centres, both with the usual free parking terms, on different sides of the road. The Parking terms are the usual ones with the addition of (along the lines of); "You may only park for free if you remain in the precinct. Should you leave the precinct a charge will be levied" People have been fined for nipping across the road to the other DIY store!! I believe that there are other examples of this practice where a Maccas and KFC have apparently a shared car park - except that it's not!
@@contactjd Check out the following via Google; "Drivers hit with £100 fine at Go Outdoors for leaving site" "Shoppers hit with £100 fines after being caught crossing to Gloucester Quays by 'a parking officer who hides behind a bush'" "Calls for 'common sense' over parking fines from Chesterfield's Ravenside Retail Park" "Driver's warning after he received huge fine for eating McDonald's in Starbucks car park next door"
I picked up a rental car at Heathrow and lost my way to the M25. I ended up going through one of the terminals in my attempt to get out of the airport. About a month later I was charged 70 pounds (40 pound fee + 30 pounds admin charge) by the car rental company for not paying to go into the airport pick up area. I had not see any signs, nor stopped to pick anyone up. I didn’t appeal as I thought this could cause even more charges with the car hire company.
I once pulled up in a layby which was a bus stop as I had my two young daughters in the back and needed to stop them fighting. Suddenly a little man in a hi viz appeared and started taking my number plate details,I drove off without ever getting out or even turning off my engine and a week later recieved a parking ticket which I ignored and eventually had to go to court where it was thrown out .
I fought 2 illegal parking tickets for my mother - they try it on all the way until you escalate to the independent appeals system. My mother was bombarded with emails with language such as ''It will end if you pay now'' They cancelled both tickets while they were halfway through independent appeals - I have no doubt someone there told them I had a serious court case for harassment of a vulnerable person.
The independent appeals organisations need to start charging firms for any complaint raised. That’s what the Financial ombudsman does which means firms will try to resolve it before it gets escalated.
It should be reasonable time. I pulled into one that used to be free no clear signs now until you drive onto it and decided I am not paying to park there when I saw the fees by the pay and display machine which can only be read if your are inside. You also have the right to make a mistake and realise it is permit only and drive out. Time to see the sign and read the terms and conditions which they use to fine you. Seems to me they should be obliged to have an in camera and an out one to allow a time on their tarmac.
I received a parking charge after being unable to pay at the ticket meters. Both meters ejected my coins. I tried paying over the phone but got cut off. Having an appointment to go to there wasn't time for me to download the companies app and go through the setup ext. After five or so minutes, I had no choice but to leave. I asked the company for details of when the meters are emptied and any calibration certificate. But no response. Just threatening demands. This happened four years ago. Now I avoid this type of carpark like the plaque.
Not in the UK, but I've had a few interesting parking fine disagreements over here. One of the most annoying was in my home city. I had a resident's parking permit to park on my street. But winter had come and frozen all the windows over. So the parking enforcement did look at my car, scraped a bit of the windscreen in the driver's side bottom corner, saw no permit and fined me (technically it's a parking tax surcharge, but that's irrelevant). I fought it by stating that I did have the parking permit, which they confirmed, but I had it stuck behind the rear view mirror, so that it wouldn't obstruct any part of the windscreen while driving. After sending in photos the fine was dropped. The municipal law that regulates these parking permits still only states that it must be displayed in the windscreen of the car, but does not specify where in the windscreen. Another one was just last year at my friend's mum's funeral. I have an EU disabled parking permit, but this municipality uses cars with ANPR systems to enforce parking. I was unaware that I would need a separate permit just for that municipality in order to be "allowed" to use my EU DPP there. But again after just informing them of my EU DPP the fines went away. The worst one I've had to deal with was a village in Zeeland where parking enforcement was incredibly strict, but the only method to pay for parking was so outdated most banks had phased it out 18 months prior. The municipality did not offer any alternative kind of payment other than this obsolete payment method called ChipKnip. We ended up 4 minutes late to the car and the enforcement officer was extremely strict in his stance that 4 minutes late was too late, and he refused to have any sort of compassion. So I fought the fine on the grounds that I wanted to pay, but couldn't because they only accepted an obsolete method of payment. When that didn't work, I decided to go fish for other things to frustrate said municipality with, and to my delight I found out that their parking enforcement did not have a mandate. Well they did have a mandate, but not in a way that is legal. So yeah, no legal mandate means the officer couldn't have enforced the parking rules to begin with, so the fine he'd written technically speaking was just a note, not a fine. The municipality didn't like that, so I had no choice but to take it to court. The judge agreed with me, there was no mandate, so there couldn't be a fine. The municipality appealed and the court of appeals then ruled that not only was my fine invalid and I did not have to pay it, the court made them reverse all of the fines issued since they'd changed their method of granting mandate to no longer be within the law. They had to pay back thousands of fines. Suffice to say that municipality has since changed their method of granting mandate back to the old style, which is more convoluted and involved, but at least it's legal.
Putting my property management hat on, many owners of these car parks don’t get revenue from the parking, but get a fixed sum from the parking company. That’s why the parking companies just want revenue to make their outlay back. In landlord and tenant terms, it would be taken to be a kind of licence, such as when you buy a ticket for a sporting match. You buy a ticket to use the seat for a period of time. Parking is horrendous, I was in a multi-storey yesterday and the electronic ANPR payment wasn’t working and you could see the concern of people parking.
I’ve stopped in a parking bay before, got out, read the terms, and decided to reject them.. when i was unsure who owned the land of a car park and whether it would allow me to park for free as a customer of the shopping centre carrying a disabled passenger. The signs had the logo of both the shopping centre and the railway company but indicated a much higher price for parking than the standard shopping centre one despite being accessible only through a barrier clearly owned by the shopping centre. I decided to get back in the car and drive away, never heard anything from them and was allowed to exit via the barrier which also didn’t prevent me from leaving.
One thing I've noticed about this channel is that, although at the time of me writing this, there have been some 7.7k views of the above video - only 802 have actually given it a "like". I do wonder about that, because after all - what's not to like about the video content, or indeed any of the videos on this channel? That kind of thing seems to be a common occurrence on this channel & some other channels as well. I always believe in pressing the "like" button if I've enjoyed/liked the content of a video on a channel. Clearly there are a lot of other people who just do not do that.
Question: Do parking terms apply against a driver or all individuals inside a car? Many cases where driver has remained in the car while passengers have broken rules and been fined I.e. leaving the premises. But the driver receives the PCN. So actually is this enforceable?
aldi supermarket in leek staffordshire moorlands has the same parking, you drive in, they take your number, and if you dont park and go inside to enter and record your car reg prior to leaving they send a penalty notice through the post to you.
Thank you what you have said is how i have always interpretated these situations. Its common sense the Judges ruleing reflects this as Judges usually do and you have your own Reasonable Judgement. The problems surface when the Parking company dont take a balanced view or you try something you really know isnt right. There is one anomily here i have experienced though. I entered a car park noticed CCTV cameras and ticket Machine. I drove around waiting for a space i then Parked. I got out and walked towards the ticket machine. The terms and conditions sign was not there but displayed several feet away. I read the notice. Briefly it said i would incur a fine if after entering the car park i did not purchase a ticket within ten minutes. Note mention of parking 0 would be reasonable if it said so but no just entering. So if a not too sprightly older person enters drives around waits for a spare space gets out walks slowly to the machine and dispite purchasing a ticket they could breach the terms. Common sense is they got a ticket so no intentional evasion of payment for the time actually parked.. So would the company persue because of a breach of a condition or use common sense?. To me the sign should stipulate to by a ticket within 10 min of Parking. These are the times that separate a resonable company from others.
The London Borough of Hounslow have gone over to a 100% pay-by-phone system for their car parks. There is an alternative of going to a "nearby" shop which is part of the Paypoint network, and pay there. So if you don't have a smartphone, you have to walk to a shop to pay for parking. If your phone battery is flat, you have to walk to a shop to pay for parking. If you have an old phone that doesn't have, and can't get, a recent enough version of Android, you have to walk to a shop to pay for parking. If you are a foreign visitor with a poor grasp of English you can probably work out how to put coins in a machine, but instructions to install an app (on your phone with oh-so-reasonable roaming data charges)? Nope, you going have to walk to a shop to pay for parking. If you visit Chiswick House, the nearest shop to pay for parking is about a 20-minute walk away. So that's 40+ minutes out of your visit just because Hounslow council are a bunch of scumbags.
curious if waiting for somebody would be classed as parking you pull into a space and wait an hour for somebody and either dont leave the vehicle or get out to stretch you legs and stay close to the vehicle. while you are still taking a space i dont meets the definition of being parked but most companies use anpr on the entrance & exit to calculate the time you are on the carpark rather than mesure the length of time vehicles are parked for
I used this defence against a parking eye parking charge notice. I dropped my wife at an hotel for a meeting and pulled into a parking space to avoid obstructing other vehicles. I waited until she was inside the hotel and I then left, returning to collect her (pulling into a parking space again to avoid obstruction). I explained that at no time had I left my vehicle or turned off the engine and that I would’ve vacated the space if another car required it (there were spaces left). Without hesitation, parking eye cancelled the parking charge notice. On a side note, I do occasionally park where I shouldn’t, but I accept the parking charge notice, pay it immediately and consider it a “convenience payment”. 😬
I think the issue is that the cameras are not able to detect all of these scenarios so the companies need to have a way of filtering. It isn't going to happen though as it requires people to then monitor the footage, so they will continue to try their luck and just basically issue a ticket to someone driving on and then driving off without making a payment, and then just deal with things if someone complains. One thing I am sure they could do is allow 5 mins. OK that might miss people who have genuinely drove on, parked, nipped to the shop as you said and drove off, but that has to be rare. This way, if you drive on and off within 5 minutes then surely in most cases that would mean you haven't parked. As I say, they are not going to do this though as they are going to make it as hard as possible and hope people just get scared and pay the charge. I know the "5" minutes is debatable as some multi storey car parks could take longer than that to find a space, but surely it would cover most and make them look as if they are at least doing something for the public? 😀
I recall reading that the British Rail station in Reading had a (presumed to be privately owned) access road with double yellow lines and somebody (presumably the owner) was charging people for stopping and pausing to let a passenger out. The steps they will go to to avoid free drop-off !
2:55 I actually recently was on the UK legal reddit where somebody complained about this issue. They drove into a car park, ANPR controlled, drove around for a bit and decided they wasn't going to park for whatever reason, but instead stopped and had a phone call in their car. About 10 minutes later they left and then some time later got a fine and complained. Stands to reason he was stopped/waiting (and I'll assume he was hands free calling), rather than parked as such, he made a point he wasn't in a bay so likely stopped by a kerb somewhere. No idea how it ended up though.
large carpark in Bicester Oxfordshire. You drive in park and a camera records your front number plate. when you return you put your number plate into the machine pay the charge and leave through the barrier. Getting back to the machine it wouldn’t recognise the number plate. At the barrier was an intercom. Explaining the situation the guy let us leave for free! Turns out the camera had failed to record our number plate on entry due to the Bull Bars fitted. Result.
What if you park your car then read the terms and conditions and then reject them and leave ? This happened to me a while ago. I went to a local carpark that had replaced all of its coin machines with a ‘SMART’ system. After parking, I read the sign and realised there was no way for me to actually pay. It told me that there were two options. The first one was to log on to a computer before you left home and pay. The second one was downloading an app on a smartphone. Obviously, the first option wasn’t possible as I was in the car park, and I couldn’t download the app as I don’t have a smartphone. So, I left the car park. Fortunately, I haven’t received a notice through the mail (yet).
This is the issue, scare you to pay. Approaches like that make me want to get back into practice and take cases pro bono for no other reason than showing them people fight back
Paying for parking can be difficult if not impossible. If you have the right change and it doesn't spit your money out, if the machine doesn't accept your card, if the machine is full due to a bank holiday etc. Now the banks have withdrawn from so many towns, availability of coins is becoming a problem, as shops become card only. In the countryside, conectivity is often problematic so modern solutions are temperamental too. More reasons why you put your car in a parking space but didn't pay for the 15 minutes of frustration.
I had it once. My wife drove into a car park realised she didnt want to park there ( wrong place) there was a que to exit due to a lorry reversing in the main road blocking traffic. It took her several minutes to exit. 2 weeks later a bloody PCN. I wanted to fight it but she was scared and paid. 5 years Im still bitter !
Yes similiar. Mine pulled in and tried to pay - first by app, then phone, then machine. Nothing worked, so she left. PCN two weeks later and like yours, she paid.
Pulled into Hillingdon yesterday . Got out of the car but someone in the car park said there were no trains that day at Hillingdon. I drove off. This video now bookmarked in case of PCN :-)
So, for clarity and avoidance of doubt, if you pull your car in, go to the nearest ticket machine to pay but fund that it’s not working so you try a machine further away, but that is also non-functional so you leave to find alternative parking then you have not parked? My niece has been caught out by that scenario a couple of times but has been unable to get the PCN issued overturned. There is a car park in my area that is well known for the machines taking the payment but not issuing a ticket, this tends to happen in the evening after the office on the other end of the phone number given on the terms and conditions sign has closed, with no voicemail facility or alternate contact number, or at the weekend. The local facebook groups are frequently filled by people who got a PCN despite having paid but the machine failed to issue a ticket. Presumably in that case you should leave and find alternative parking then try to get a refund when the office is open. Did your appeal against a PCN reach court? If so could you give the case reference so if we find ourselves in the same situation we can cite the same references? Or is the case itself citable?
If you have to leave your vehicle (other than to read the terms and conditions) to be parked, does that mean that i could drive into a car park, eat the sandwich I had on the passenger seat, drank the can of coke i also already had, then drove off without having opened the car door, and it would not be classed as having parked my car, so wouldn't need to pay for it?
what if you pull into a car park and wait in your car for whatever reason, maybe you are waiting for somebody to come out of a shop or you just needed somewhere to wait... i would assume you couldn't argue against a charge even though you have not left the car because you would be taking up a space for an unreasonable amount of time. But as per the definition of parking, could you actually argue that you did not leave the car and park it?
My problem with this as an ex driving instructor is that the ability to read is not a condition of being able to pass a driving test as long as a person can identify letters and numbers. If dyslexic it is not even required that the letters and numbers be read in the correct order, so how can one reasonably expect everyone to be able to read parking restriction notices? Allowances are made for certain types of disability as long as it is included in the test application, including the written test. Or at least it was, I may be out of touch but I think I am still correct.
C'mon.....if you occupy a space and are stationary ....you are parked ....simple really. if you drive into a car park but don't stop as there is nowhere to stop....and leave the car park....you haven't parked .
@@oddjobtriumph1635 Not if you simply got out to read the conditions because they were not readable from the parking space and decided the conditions were not acceptable and then left not having accepted the conditions.
@@BrianMcGuirkBMG There is a very good argument there - And it is something that Legally all Car Park Operators are supposed to adhere to - Though we know that many do not and sadly, No MP seems to be bothered enough to make sure the law is enforced! In Law, in the UK at least - All Parking Areas that Charge for Parking are supposed to ensure that Terms and Conditions are CLEARLY VISIBLE at the point of Entry! If you have to leave your vehicle to read the ToC... They are in fact breaking the law... and any PCN issued should be classed as invalid, But as it is down to a Magistrates discretion... There are times when despite the company NOT adhering to law and ToC or Signs being obscured - They still win! In the UK at least - If you are using a paid Car Park... The Terms should be AT THE POINT OF ENTRY AND CLEARLY VISIBLE! In the UK, You should NOT have to leave your car to see the ToC or how much it will cost to park... Sadly, again.. No one cares enough to make sure these companies do actually follow the rules!
@@Phoenix2312 I would make the point that even though the terms and conditions are 'visible' at the entrance, it may be impossible to stop and read them because you might be blocking others. In addition, the T&Cs while visible that they are at the entrance they may not be readable from your vehicle due to the print size. You will find the prices in larger print but not the entire t&c details. [Attempting to read these comments or the terms and conditions should not be read while driving a moving vehicle].
@@BrianMcGuirkBMG Yes, there is a massive argument for clarity on them... Now and again it gets bought up in the Commons, but sod all actually get done!
I have noticed that some airports classify the approach roads as private property and warn that there is no stopping to let out passengers. The airport (Stansted) does offer a drop off at a £7 fee or for free but further away at mid-stay with a 5 minute free bus ride to the airport. Can you be liable for a PCN or other action? There are terms on display but you would have to stop and examine them to better understand them.
In some country's there is writing law on when a car is parked, it goes like "It is parking when your car is stopped for more than 3 minutes, less than 3 minutes is stopping", it should be simple but there is cases going to court on this issue, both car owners, the police and car parking companys really can't figure it out.
i had one at Warwick Hospital, came extra early as previously 30 mins was not enough to find a place and before did not have anpr cameras.. turned up about an hour before appointment thought loads time to get a parking spot it was from from plenty time appointment past so i left after 50 mins driving laps. i got ticket, entrapment as park out side of bay to go and pay a ticket or just leave a ticket was no way out esp for spend another hour plus trying to find a place. refused to deal with parking company they wanted me to post appeal to them ii told them where to go, a very straight to the point email to management at the hospital as to me it was entrapment they said they sort it, took two emails the final one sorted it. why should i have to leave house to prove i did nothing wrong, hell no i was willing to go to court if hospital did nothing. still not been back there but only way i see getting around another ticket if just as busy wait at the first camera blocking car park entrance, still angers me when think about it so who knows how i be on next visit, very least a dam pain to parking office as im making sure i get my free time not lose it while finding a place and only pay for what i used after that, if very busy anger gets better i block entrance till i see a parking spot them enter. who knows how i react reason ive done all i can to get appointment elsewhere, a place you meant to get help and they do this, not on
I would have, and still do think, the carpark monitoring system ought to allow a 5 minute grace period before it assumes one has parked. Or better still have an automatic barrier that would allow access upon which one knows there is a charge. The trouble now days is that since the law has changed a car can only be clamped by the police or local authorities. We had a problem with a neighbour parking on our 4 house private driveway. The police advised us that we could neither clamp the car or tow it off our driveway. However if had a gate open or in our case pull up bollards that we had fitted and a sign stating no parking, if a car were then to park we were legally entitled to close the gate or pull up the bollards, and then refused to open them again until we were ready. This we did, and the said neighbour never parked on our driveway again.
I received a parking charge notice for overstaying, the evidence they provided was two photos, one on entry to the car park and one on exit, I appealed on the grounds that they had no photos of my car actually parked on their land and that there were other areas, accessed through their car park, where I could have parked without penalty. Penalty charge cancelled
We called at a Holiday Inn recently, in a hire car. We went to see if there were rooms available. They had no rooms, due to migrants, so we went back to the car. I received a bill from the hire company, saying they had paid my parking fine, and they wanted me to pay an extra £15 to them in administration fees. Firstly, I didn't realise that there would be a charge for enquiries, and secondly, why would the hire company pay the fine without knowing the facts. Have they acted legally?
I was nearly caught in the same circumstances - luckily I saw the sign before entering reception - I asked reception and they pointed to a terminal - "Just put your rego in there and it will be fine"
There's a notorious site where it js impossible to pay by any means. They dont take cash and there is no Internet signal. But they issue a charge notice if you stop. Indeed they issued a charge notice to a delivery van which crossed the car park to to the cafe whichhas its own space for delivery vehicles to park.
I just paid a PCN relating to an incident last month where the clutch failed late at night in a lot where there was a 3 hr limit. I arranged for a towing company to pick it up the following morning and take it to a nearby repair depot. Usually these parking sharks are pretty quick with automated violations but this one took considerably longer as my car had to be loaded on the flat bed. The violation "evidence" was a picture of my car on the back of the recovery vehicle . I suspect their automation did not detect my car leaving so they probably had to manually check but even though my car had clearly broken down they show no mercy!
You only owed them for proportionate compensation for an invoice not paid, in order words, reasonable damages for an unpaid invoice, not unreasonable "fines", if their car park was full, and you deprived them of a legitimate customer then they can argue that you owe them. Otherwise ride it out and it's not worth their while to pursue it half the time.
Well, isn't it convenient that your clutch decided to "fail" in a lot with a 3-hour limit? It must have been an Oscar-worthy performance on your car's part, acting all broken down. I'm sure those parking enforcers were just heartless for not believing in the "clutch fairy tale." Maybe next time, your car could throw in some tears for a more convincing performance? In my car park, even the recovery vehicle would have gotten a PCN for attempting to aid such a creative excuse. 🤨
@@_.Madness._ About that - the "evidence" picture the enforcers sent me as to my "infraction" is one of my car clearly strapped on a tow truck. I also have the 200 pound repair bill from the garage it was towed to. If that's "acting" I'd hate to see your version of reality!!!!!
Morrisons in High Wycombe have gone and upset a lot of loyal customers. They have hired Euro Car Parks to manage their car park, where punters are allowed to stay for 2 hours. After that it is a £100 fine. The problem is, the camera is not located at the entrance / exit to the car park. The reason why ALL similar car parks using number plate recognition have the camera at the place where you enter and leave the car park is obvious. It means the system only times the duration of your stay in the car park! Obvious, right? Well at Morrisons Wycombe Euro Car Parks have deliberately located the camera a hundred yards down the road from the car park. It is at the point where you leave the public highway and enter Morrisons land. The problem is that between the car park and the camera is the Morrisons petrol station and the car wash! We left the car park after 1 hour and 15 mins. Well inside the 2 hour maximum permitted. We gassed up, which took 5 minutes then queued and used the car wash. That took 45mins. So although we did not break the rules we got fined anyway - and this is happening to customers to this day. We complained and the fine was scrapped but if we had not kept our store and garage receipts it would have been a different story.
I am aware of PCNs being issued (and upheld) on cars overstaying their parking period because they tried to leave (in good time) but were then stuck in the queue waiting to leave the car park....
Very interesting, thanks. I wonder if one stops in a parking space without ever leaving the car, and just takes a nap for a few hours, might one be deemed to have parked?
I believe that with Parking Eye at least that you are assumed to have agreed to comply with their"rules" of the car park. You can end up with a penalty if you infringe them. So for instance if you enter the car park and leave by a route other than a designated exit even if you left within the initial free period of parking you can be penalised.
My god, did he not explain the law clear enough. In your scenario, they would have to show and prove what time you left, you are in fairy land, me thinks you just like challenging his account, sad.
You can be sent an invoice. How you deal with that invoice is up to you but there is plenty of advice and template letters online to help you decide after becoming fully informed on the subject.
I'll tell you where we're going: your computer AI is connected to google and other ai elsewhere. It hears you talking about parking at Bob's Car park in Putney and at the end of the month you get a charge notice because you were THINKING about parking by CONSPIRING with your wife to park your car at Bobs Car park. This is where we are headed.
There is also the scenario where you drive up to the entrance and the terms and conditions are clearly displayed and you do not agree with them. However, because there is now a queue of cars behind, you are unable to reverse and you have no choice but to drive in and then out as soon as you can. It would be unreasonable to give you a parking charge notice.
I had an appointment at my local hospital, the car park it is not a camera and registration system but a pay-and-display monitored by an in house car park attendant. On this particular day the machine in my section of the Carpark had a printed note simply saying ‘this machine is out of order’, and nothing else. As I am a frequent visitor I was aware of a 2nd machine approx 250 yards away on the other side of the hospital so I walked around the building and bought a ticket. So my question is, with the original note not giving any further instructions or any directions to a working machine, or even if there is a 2nd working machine - how much effort should you reasonably be expected to make to search for a 2nd method of paying. Even without the worry of getting to an appointment on time, had I walked left instead of right I would have had to have made a complete circuit of this city hospital to find the 2nd machine - no mean feat I can tell you with all its Porto cabins and added extensions it’s had over the past 50 years, it’s quiet a mishmash of buildings and roads.
Airports have been pushing charges for their drop off zones, anyone driving through the zone gets picked up on ANPR and they demand people to pay the "drop off charge" even if the vehicle does not stop.
This is very interesting. What about the extortionate charges for "pick up and drop off car parks" in Airports? Can they charge you for parking if you've not parked and just picked someone up? Also, if I may ask, what happens when you're at a barrier with no option to turn back and only by the barrier are the parking charges visible? If you decide not to accept them you're unable to reverse out and have no option but to collect the ticket thus implying you're accepting the terms when in fact you're not. I'm sorry if my question wasn't clear, I hope it was and would greatly appreciate your opinion.
I guess that if the conditions are "you will be charged for Drop off/Pick up then your are stuffed (not a legal term) It's immoral in my view but Governments love giving corporations the opportunity to further tax us, and our cars, off the roads.
There are videos on here of them calling armed police over, who try and intimidate the driver into paying / giving details. If you have no means of payment or ID there is little they can do except take your number plate, and invoice the registered keep
What if you send a passenger out of the car, for example to get a better look at the parking terms or see if the shop adjacent to the parking spot had change for the meter, leaving the car started and the driver in position at the wheel?
@BlackBeltBarrister @7:00 You mention having to display a permit. Is that the ticket given when you paid to park? Assuming that the 'permit' is printed upon being paid, what is the theoretical remedy if a 'permit' is not printed when you paid? I am in the US and this happens to privately enforced on-street public parking where you pay and sometimes no ticket/permit is printed.
What about the scenario if you are driving to a particular car park to eat your lunch, in your car? You never leave your car but are staying in the car park for a prolonged period.
Question just back from a motorhome trip to wales. I stopped at service area just got out of the 'van' to do a walk round check and then had a sandwich. So never left the motorhome did I park? Only really relevant as I read the parking terms and I was stationary in a area not marked for parking Oops potential £100 fine/ sorry charge.
I got a charge at terminal 5 as drove in to the pickup/ drop off and read the sign, it said you could only stay for a small amount of time and as I was early, I drove away and returned at the correct time and paid. I still got a penalty charge for the first visit and driving off. They said entering the zone was chargeable, however, the signs advising this were at the point of no return where you couldn’t turn around or select an alternative route. They offered a nominal fee which I ended up accepting but still think its wrong.
Are you parking if you occupy a parking space but do not leave the vehicle? I do this several times a year at hospital sites where I have brought a family member for a consultation. Normally, I sit with the vehicle, listening to the radio for up to 2 hrs on occasion and usually the family member pays for the parking charge as they return, but if I have not left the vehicle then have I parked? It irritates me that hospitals require patients to attend appointments at sites where parking is charged, these can be (on occasion unreasonably) lengthy visits that costs several £s. We have to use a car to get to the hospital up to 15 miles away as there is no public transport available. The last time I pointed out the issue with public transport I was told that I could drive to the Park and Ride, pay parking fees and bus fees and the bus would drop us off at one of the three hospital sites we visit, in that case the whole trip would cost double what it does to go all the way by car and according to the timetable add around 1 hour to our journey.. I had a PCN when I purchased a parking ticket but had nowhere to put it in full view as the dashboard was well sculpted and the ticket kept sliding off onto the floor. i ended up putting it onto the seat (driver's seat in a LHD car). My current car has a convenient clear plastic clip attached to the windscreen perimeter specifically for this purpose - well done Skoda!
@@Guardian2003 The term "parking" in the context of UK law is generally interpreted to mean leaving a vehicle stationary for a period other than the time needed to pick up or set down passengers or to load or unload goods. However, the specific definitions and rules for determining whether a vehicle is considered "parked" can vary depending on the local jurisdiction and any Traffic Regulation Orders (TROs) that may be in effect. Some TROs may specify that a vehicle is considered "parked" if it is left unattended for more than a specified period (e.g., 2 minutes, 10 minutes, etc.). Others might define "parking" based on the driver's intent-i.e., if the driver leaves the vehicle with the intent of doing something other than immediately resuming driving, then the vehicle is considered "parked." Generally, you have to leave your vehicle, or not be doing something with it. If you're sat in it for the minimum time required for your passenger to get out of the shop and back into the car, you're not parked. You have the intent to start driving again as soon as possible, you're not going to leave the vehicle there, and you'll be there for the minimum time required to conduct your business, which is picking up a passenger.
On the definition of “parking” how would a driver pulling into a space and waiting be interpreted? 2 scenarios come to mind- 1) pulling into a pay and display space for only 5 minutes whilst say collecting somebody from a shop/store and they take. Few minutes to appear; 2) pulling into a space for 20-30 minutes, say at a train station to collect somebody and there are unexpected delays , but not leaving your car at all in either case?
That is already clarified in law... Bear in mind this video is about Private Companies trying to charge people for simply entering a premises! The Law was updated to clarify - If a Vehicle is within a designated area and Motionless, Then it is classed as being Parked. The Term Motionless does suggest that the engine is also "Switched Off" but is not required - So, No you could not sit in your car or leave it with the Engine Running to escape a parking charge... There is however allowances for "Disembarking" - So if you were just dropping off passengers, Your engine is still running and you have no intent on staying - Provided you do not remain longer than is absolutely necessary - You are not considered to have Parked. I should add that's a very case by case basis... For instance, Say you are transporting a Disabled passenger - You may have to allow for extra time to say Put up their Wheelchair... And there are Legal cases where Private Parking Companies have been fought and LOST when they have tried to issue Parking Charge Notices to people transporting Disabled Passenger's in exactly those circumstances - Bad News though, There are also as many cases where the PCN issuer has also WON - It is down to a Magistrates discretion! The Video is NOT directly about Parking Law... But about how Private Companies are Exploiting peoples lack of understanding.... I do feel that Danial may have to make a follow up video to clarify what exactly parking is as the same question is being asked or "Loophole" being suggested by many... I feel some - Not you, You have been very sensible - Are WILLFULLY misrepresenting the video and hoping they may get a chance to "Break the law Legally" Your comment posed the question very well... Most refreshing to see!
@@Phoenix2312 many thanks for such a detailed response, it was very much appreciated. The status of “Motionless” would be at odds with the content of the video though, specifically with regards to the part about exiting the vehicle to read (and then disagree with) the terms and then leaving the car park. I am not very well versed in these specific areas so always good to debate the various interpretations that could apply legally. Thanks again for your response!
@@old-barn I only chimed in as the scenario in the video is VERY SPECEFIC... and the case law that Danial is Quoting is Specific to that ONE SCENARIO... Sadly, there are a lot f comments here from people who drive (I dont!) who are actually misrepresenting the video and may even try and use it as a defence to overturn fines, only to end up laughed at and getting an even bigger fine... ... I mean, I get it Parking Charges can be extortionate, I am glad I don't drive and have to park at my local hospital... Its ATROCIOUS! But will fully "Misunderstanding" Danial's Video is just wrong! He was very clear in his video - But people are trying to twist it!
Double dipped by a company, pictures showed a 3 point turn. Photo showed the car with reverse lights on "driving out the car park" on the wrong dide of the road and a rear photo of the car "entering the car park"on the wrong side of the road. There were no pictures of the front of the car at alll. Never actually entered the car park, there is a clear line but the camera is placed at the corner before the car park. Good job we have dash cam and could show it was fraudulent
The following is taken from the New Zealand Road User Rule 2004, which is part of the Land Transport Act. Part 6 Stopping and parking 6.1Vehicles must be parked with due care and consideration A driver or person in charge of a vehicle must not stop, stand, or park the vehicle on a road, whether attended or unattended, without due care or without reasonable consideration for other road users. Therefore in NZ the definition of parking is bringing the vehicle to a stop other than at a junction or in heavy traffic, even if you don't exit the vehicle and even if you do not turn the vehicle off. If a vehicle drives around the car park and does not come to a stop in any space it would be considered not to be parked, and therefore should not be liable for a penalty charge.
Unfortunately, there appears to be an ambiguity in the quote from Ashby v Tolhurst. "Parking a car is leaving a car and, I should have thought, nothing else". Maybe I will be seen as playing at semantics here, but "leaving a car" could be interpreted as - I left my car in the car park and went to the football match -, or it could mean - I left my car (as in stepped out of it) to check the Ts and Cs. They may seem similar, but if, for example, you were to fly into Heathrow Airport, you might well say that you "left the airport to go home", but no one of sound mind would interpret that as meaning you had put the airport somewhere. As a complete layman when it comes to law I would have thought that using this statement as a precedent could be argued against either way.
I was hoping you would extend the scenarios to include stopping but not 'leaving' the car. Instead remaining in the car for an extended period. As this doesnt seem to be adequately adressed by the wording of the ruling you cited.
I once pulled into a car park at a supermarket following a long drive and needed to take a rest before continuing my journey, I never stepped out of the car and went to sleep for 30 mins. I didn’t realise that the carpark had installed ANPR cameras for parking and I received a PCN. I tried to appeal it but failed. Would this fall under the ‘not leaving’ my car.
So let's say there is nowhere to park on the road. I drive into a car park and my wife gets out and goes to the shops for half an hour. She comes back and I drive off without paying. I haven't left my vehicle. OR I drive into a car park because I have 30 minutes to kill before I need to be somewhere. So I read a book and then drive off without paying. In both instances I have used the private land without paying and without leaving the car. Surely this is not allowed?
What happens in cases where you drive into a car park, examine the Ts and Cs, decide you don't like them and try to leave but you cannot leave without paying to exit because there is a barrier in place?
I have done this once - they wanted £5 for 15 mins - so I drove round and stopped at the barrier and pressed the Assist button. The operator argued but the queue to leave behind me was getting annoyed and I told the operator I was not moving till either they called the police or opened the barrier - they relented.
All this hassle could be avoided if Parking was Free, it used to be, but now everything you do needs payment. You have one section of society who do genuinely productive work, the rest of society seem to dream up ever more reasons why they need your hard earned. The simple fact of parking used to be free.
or, instead of using that land for providing the service of a parking area, they could use it for something else. Private land providing car parking is because your council isn't providing the level of parking needed. Start complaining to the council.
What if you sleep in the car overnight then? Still can't be classed as parking? What if you're sleeping in a campervan? You haven't left the vehicle then either have you? I suppose there could be 2 definitions of "leave" couldn't there? One with driver in it and one with the driver NOT in it? Right?
One of our supermarkets had a sign in the car park that read customers only, I was challenged as I was walking off site instead of into the store. Told him I had to go to the bank first to check my cash available prior to shopping, got back to my car and he was lurking beside it, I hadn't gone in to the store, was going to be fined so I said I'll see you in court then, I'll see what the court decides when I show that I didn't have enough in my bank account to purchase anything hence why I was leaving. He went off scratching his head over that one! Another store car park was signed regular customers only, I told them I was a regular, I shop once a year at Christmas therefore I was entitled to park year round as many times as I wished to. They changed that sign to add whilst in store only 😟
I once visited a part of my city that I hadn't previously and was looking for somewhere to park. Pulled into a car park before realising at the payment machine that they didn't take cash - which was all I had with me. Pulled straight out again and went in one across the road that did take cash, but have been getting chased by that first car park ever since. I refused to pay on principle, but delighted to learn that the law agrees with my principles on this occasion. Thank you!
I'm still waiting for an sms to get onto the payment app for one of those car parks. It's been 2 months!
It wasted 15 mins and the nearby cash car park was almost full up when I got there.
No penalty ticket for 15 min trying to accept their terms and pay. If they accepted payment it probably wouldn't have been nearly empty.
You don’t need a drivers License unless you are a commercial traveler!
That means if you go from A to B without making any money it’s Travelling, do you Really think that the traveler community has a driving license between them, think again, they can’t take their kids because they don’t Register Them Over To The Government!!!
As soon as you Register you are giving it to the government no matter what it is, car kids whatever!
Makes me sick there’s still people that think the law of the land don’t apply?
Wake up
@@chrisdaniels3929 don’t pay them take it to court, let a 3rd party Try collect the money and you can tell them to go away from your property or arrest them for harassment.
We can arrest the police and anyone who says different on here don’t know what they are talking about.
We are the law and everyone stood up to these muppets we would be so much happier rather than pay mugs like this to fill people with BS because they don’t know how to break down the Words, that’s what gets me out of the court room every time they don’t like me for some reason I don’t know why?
Maybe because I know what I can say and what I need to say, they then have to pay me for My Time as you would pay for a solicitor or barrister!
Both a total waste of time and money, if a barrister was that good why do they loose cases?
Get yourself a blacks law dictionary 6 or up!
They Don’t Care for anyone, It’s Money For The Greedy Freemasons 💯💥👊🏼
I've never heard of a fair and reasonable parking company !
I think the majority of this is the parking company "trying it on". There are bound to be a few folk who'll pay it just to avoid all the hassle. So the company had learned to send out a PCN for anything they can in the hope that some won't question it. On the few occasions I've had to deal with this kind of thing, the company hasn't put up hardly any resistance and just cancelled the charge which leads me to believe it's something they have to do quite frequently.
I think you are quite correct. Similar experiences.
I've had the same experience. Drove in,couldn't find a place and drove out. Then got a PCN . It was cancelled after two letters.
Car parking company manager, "We run and monitor the car park to ensure appropriate use and to minimise obstruction on the public road."
Judge, "Rubbish, tell the truth."
"We maximise every opportunity to extort money out of the public."
So according to the 1937 definition ....you can pull into a parking space, climb into the back seat, and sleep for 24 hours....and you haven't "parked"....hmmm... bit out of date methinks.
@@leathleyg5995. The moment you use a parking space and switch off your engine, you're parked weather you leave the vehicle or don't.
Had something similar at an Aldi. Limited to an hour and a half free parking, there was roadworks outside that took me twelve minutes over the limit due to traffic queues. Recieved a PCN about a fortnight later. It took three letters and a note from the store manager for them to rescind it!
I had one from Tesco, they said I parked for 9 hours when in fact all I did was use their fuel station in the morning and come back to the shop at night. Luckily for me I had used a Tesco for my lunch 50 miles away and so it was rather easy to prove, but it shows a rather large hole in their detection systems and that they were using cameras from traffic lights 100 meters down the main road away from the shop which for me opens up potential privacy issues.
The bigger question is when did car owners give dvla the permission to share our information, god knows I have looked and a reasonable person can’t seem to find where I allow dvla to share my details
The act of registering it with the DVLA means you have surrendered certain rights and given them permission to do that.
We didn't, but the law does. Regulation 27.e of the Road Vehicles (Registration and Licensing) Regulation 2002. 27.-(1) The Secretary of State may make any particulars contained in the register available for use- (e)by any person who can show to the satisfaction of the Secretary of State that he has reasonable cause for wanting the particulars to be made available to him.
@leedsgeek2681 Companies get your details by submitting a V888/2B application form at a cost of just £5!
@@powernab8457 Individuals can do the same if, for example, you had justifiable reason e.g. They just crashed into me and drove away.
BBB has actually done a whole video on the myth that the DVLA is breaking GDPR by sharing your details, in the past.
I'm a PH driver, and it went around all the local taxis that, suddenly, if you were waiting to pick up from the local retail park, you would get a fine if you didn't 'park'
Trouble being, spaces near to entrances being available for our customers, who often have babies/disabilities or are old.
Strangest one was a few years ago at the railway station car park. There had been a snowstorm overnight , so when the commuters arrived in the morning to catch the train the car park was under 4 inches of snow. The weather warmed up during the day and heavy rain melted the snow. On returning several drivers founded they had been ticketed for not parking between the white lines properly.
Interesting. In my city, some of the car parks attached to large indoor shopping complexes require you to take a ticket when you enter the car park at the boom gate entrance - then you park your car & take the ticket with you. After you've finished your shopping, you go to one of the parking stations on the same level where you've parked your car (usually located at the exit points of the shopping centre on each level), insert your ticket, then the machine tells you how long you've parked for & calculates the parking fee/charge. You then pay that parking fee by cash or card, & the machine gives you a ticket indicating you've paid the fee for the time you've parked there.
The system then allows you a bit of extra time to get to your car & exit the car park - & upon exit at the boom gate, you insert your ticket & the boom gate allows you to exit. This sort of system I feel helps to avoid "overstaying" at a car park & incurring a fine/penalty - because you don't "pre-pay" for a fixed period of parking - you just pay for whatever amount of parking you actually use.
Usually at these shopping centre car parks, there's at least one hour of parking for free - so if you enter the car park & cannot find a vacant parking spot, then exit - you're not charged anything. Also, if you want to take your time to read the terms & conditions for parking there - you have time to do so (during that 1 hour of free parking) without needing to pay for parking.
Or if you manage to get your shopping done within that 1 hour of free parking - then when you go to "pay" for your parking at the parking station before leaving - the system recognises (from your parking ticket/card) that you have been there for less than 1 hour. So it does not actually charge you anything - but gives you a ticket which will allow you to exit the car park through the boom gate exit.
Hi Daniel that could have been me you were talking about at the start of your video as you described my current predicament exactly. Great advice in this video thankyou. I'm hoping with the action I've taken its been stayed.
I remember going to a parking station, but after doing a route of the premises found no where to park. On exit 10 minutes later the attendant ask for money. With luck, I said "give me a parking spot right now".
I suspect sometimes the company has used an automatic number plate reader to record someone entering the carpark and because they haven’t paid assumed they parked without paying. When they may not have parked at all. Computer says no. We got that a lot in New Zealand.
I had exactly the same issue at a car park in Cornwall, I drove in and drove round the car park looking for a spot to park but there were no free spaces so I left. Then I got a PCN from the company wanting £160 for parking without a valid parking ticket being displayed. I pointed out to the company that I had not parked but just driven around and exited, using the same argument as you pointed out that to be parked I must leave my vehicle in a designated parking bay but the company insisted that I was still liable for the fine as I had entered the car park. I was not happy with their reason so raised the issue with POPLA, the independent appeals service, stating that, in fact, the owners of the car park were actually charging me an entry fee and not a parking fee and if that is the case then there was no signage stating that by just entering the carpark I have agreed to their Ts & Cs of parking. Needless to say, my PNC was canceled.
you could even leave you vehicle in a parking bay, go to buy a ticket, see the outrageous price, decide not to park there and leave, you didn't park there.
but the leaving part can only be leaving your vehicle in the car park and you leave the car park area.
I have had a strange situation where the signs outside a carpark said "Buy a ticket before you enter"
Another huge signs outside stating that "You cannot stop here" (it was a main road).
I'm not allowed to stop outside and I'm not allowed to enter without a ticket.
What if I do buy a ticket and there are no spaces?!
I then saw that the "minimum charge (non-refundable)" was £5.
What a scam!!!
This is the problem with ANPR cameras, it assumes you have parked. There is if I recall a grace period but 10 minutes is not really sufficient in a busy car park.
The other issuse it these system put the liability on the vehicle, this come to light if a driver parks in a car park for less than the time limit etc.. then on getting a partner takes the vehicle and unbeknownst to the firdt driver returns to the car park withon the non-return period. Yet arguably the contract applies to each drier but the liability will be judged on the registration of the vehicle. This along should negates ANPR being valid and require a patrol and ticking in person.
I once got a pcn at Fistral beach from Parking Eye for being 10 minutes late leaving. I ignored the pcn and got 5 or 6 increasingly aggressive letters. Ignored them all and they gave up.
Interesting. I've not had one several times when I probably should have. Some areas have zero mobile signal to renew if you take longer.
Those I'd be tempted to pay. Maybe 😂
I went to Sainsburys TWICE on the same day and received a notice saying I was PARKED for 4 and half hours. Their supporting photos showed my car at the actual exit of the car park at 2 different times. The position of the car was blatantly different in the 2 images 😒. I appealed calling them frauds. Notice cancelled 😁
This is why you need a dash cam.
You should never call it an "appeal". It is a dispute.
Happened to my wife at several supermarkets. Disputed the ‘fines’, no longer shop there
@@AP-nj1mrGood point. Appeal is their word, not ours.
Invoice them for your time wasted by contested the fine.
I visited an NCP Car Park in Cardiff a few months ago, the *only* reason I chose the car park was that it had charging spaces for my EV. I parked and tried to start a charge and soon discovered both of the chargers were faulty, so I got back into my car and went elsewhere. I was in the car park for about 12 minutes in total and NCP obliged by sending me a PCN. To their credit once I explained the situation and showed the online 'receipts' for the two failed charges they waived the charge but stated it was a one-off goodwill gesture.
1:03, Personally I would consider parking as 'stationary in a designated area, with handbrake applied, 3:20, again just dropping a passenger off to pop into a shop etc, whist the driver , who has by definition not left the vehicle, sits in the car stationary I'd consider parked since again I'd expect the handbrake applied... with regards car parks, should be made mandatory that all terms, conditions and tariffs need to be plenty and clearly visible, so the average driver can read them without leaving their car, or car parks using automatic number plate recognition or pay and display..depending on the size of the car park a free 5-15 minute free time
Ignore the fines. They send six letters then in most cases they stop. If you go to court just say you have never had letters from them and it will get thrown out.
Silly. Ignore legal letters and then claiming you didn't get them is fraud. To put this here is doubly silly. And you could find that the court disbelieves you and allows the company's case.
@mandellorian790 It's not a fine and yes they can claim for payment of it. The issue fee for county court proceedings is next to nothing and they are recoverable along with the charge if successful. Apart from being wrong in every respect, that was a great response.
@@mandellorian790 If the company had no case, then you can challenge it and win. BUT, if someone followed your advice, they could easily find themselves having to pay out, because, if a case is unchallenged, then, usually, the prosecutor wins by default.
I have seen parking conditions that state that just entering the car park, you are agreeing to pay some amount to leave. No parking mentioned!
The airport drop offs are now doing this, there is no way to exit if you disagree with the terms as it's a one way in and out system
I got a PCN when I drove onto an industrial estate, stopped to answer a call from my wife as she was at Manchester Airport and I was picking her and my daughter up. I didn’t know it was patrolled by a company called Horizon that charge if you ‘park’ on there. In my opinion I wasn’t parked. I just stopped to answer my call. Next minute a car pulls up and a bloke gets out and takes a photo from behind of my car to which I got out and asked him what he was doing. He quickly took a picture of a lamppost and jumped back in his car whilst ignoring me. I was pretty pissed off and so took a picture of his car before he drove off. Few weeks later I get a letter with the picture of my car and the notice, which I didn’t actually notice of the notice on the lamppost. £60 to pay up within two weeks or £100 if I don’t. I appealed, lost and paid the £60 reluctantly. I wasn’t parked, just stopped. Should i have paid? I didn’t want to bring bailiffs to my house tbh. But i’m fecking angry about these charlatans. Should be illegal imo.
Depends who is issuing the PCN, if it is a parking company then it's not a fine it's an invoice. From there on it is a battle of nerves. I got a PCN from a parking company that was issuing permits to non residents of a building, the residents were unable to find out where to get a permit from. We just waited it out, and they gave up when I asked to be heard in a court 120 miles away.
Where I live in Australia - the State of Victoria park is defined as follows
"park, in Part 12 and for a driver, includes stop and allow the driver's vehicle to stay (whether or not the driver leaves the vehicle)"
This is the same as you are suggesting except it covers you remaining in the vehicle as well.
A few years one of my doctor friends got a local authority car parking fine for overstaying in a car park whilst 8 months pregant, because she couldn't cycle to work like she did. The patient surgery overran, as it often does. They wouldn't accept the mitigating circumstances.
So I tried to persuade her have a big notice in her surgery saying any council employee had exactly 8 minutes with their doctor and would be charged £100 extra if they went over their allotted time. It would be interesting how the council and the employees would react to that.
Thornton v Shoe Lane Parking Ltd [1970] is the contract law case that I would use! That's why companies have to give the 10 to15 minutes grace period!!
The parking regulator which most operators have signed up to gives you 10 minutes to read the terms & conditions before you have entered into a contract.
As a courier in London working on an open circuit for 5 years I had to know the parking regulations in a 'Poacher makes the best gamekeeper' way, knew the difference between parking, loading, stopping and waiting, recieved over a hundred tickets and after appeals and, on two occasions the next tribunal step, paid three!
One Friday late afrernoon I had a delivery to a multi occupancy building at the top end of the city road (red route) at the Angel, Islington and whilst sitting in the middle of the carpark with my keys in the ignition, ready to move if anybody needed to get out, awaiting a space at the loading bay the jobsworth caretaker (?) pointed to a no parking sign and told me to move or be clamped as I was causing an obstruction. I told him that if he clamped me I would get out, lock the car and go home on the tube and he really would have an obstruction problem as well as a small claim for loss of earnings for each day that my car was in storage as I WASN'T PARKED!
Not only that, he would have to explain to the company I was delivering to why they wouldn't be getting their next batch of work!
Also on parking. I had a parking fine on reading it were they say it was parked was false as I was in another carpark waiting my doctors appointment. As it was checkable whether they did I don't know but in the end I was let off the fine because wrong carpark was on notice.
You weren't let off you let them off for issuing a potentially fraudulent notice 🤣.
I went into one once but didnt park and got a private contract ticket. I found that due to the industry rules, they can only seek to take the driver to court. As it happens I displayed an L plate and my student was obviously of a different sex to my self. Given data protection and the fact the company was not the police and it was on private land, I was not obliged to identify the driver. This reulted in no ability for the company to sue the driver as they could not know who the driver was. Case closed.
I drove down a blind street, unaware that it was a blind street, and entered a car park at the far end, that had no barrier, to do U turn and exit.
As I was conducting my U turn a guy ran over and stepped in front of me and brought me to a stop.
He was trying to prevent me from leaving while demanding monies.
I told him I was not parking but simply doing a U turn, as if he couldn't see that, but he insisted.
I told him to eff off, to get out of my way or I would move him. He moved and I left.
My question is whether the "stopped" element of the "parking" definition would be valid if someone forces you to stop in that way.
Particularly if it is an employee of the car park who has a vested interest in bringing you to a halt in order tp get money out of you.
A Very good question and one that with Dashcams now has a perfect defence as well... The answer is NO in my view... I am not a Lawyer though!
However, In your case - As you were FORCED to stop by a Person claiming to represent an Authority - ABSOLUTLY NOT! Your intentions were clear... Preventing you from moving is LEAGLLY AN OFFENCE - So in fact they would be in breach of the law! I believe it is classed as "Reckless Endangerment / Behaviour" as they are wilfully placing themselves in a position where they could come to harm.
I'd also like BBB view on the split parking areas operated by 'different companies'
Near me are two DIY centres, both with the usual free parking terms, on different sides of the road.
The Parking terms are the usual ones with the addition of (along the lines of);
"You may only park for free if you remain in the precinct. Should you leave the precinct a charge will be levied"
People have been fined for nipping across the road to the other DIY store!! I believe that there are other examples of this practice where a Maccas and KFC have apparently a shared car park - except that it's not!
How are they proving people left the 'precinct' ? it wouldn't stand up in court
@@contactjd Check out the following via Google;
"Drivers hit with £100 fine at Go Outdoors for leaving site"
"Shoppers hit with £100 fines after being caught crossing to Gloucester Quays by 'a parking officer who hides behind a bush'"
"Calls for 'common sense' over parking fines from Chesterfield's Ravenside Retail Park"
"Driver's warning after he received huge fine for eating McDonald's in Starbucks car park next door"
I picked up a rental car at Heathrow and lost my way to the M25. I ended up going through one of the terminals in my attempt to get out of the airport. About a month later I was charged 70 pounds (40 pound fee + 30 pounds admin charge) by the car rental company for not paying to go into the airport pick up area. I had not see any signs, nor stopped to pick anyone up. I didn’t appeal as I thought this could cause even more charges with the car hire company.
I once pulled up in a layby which was a bus stop as I had my two young daughters in the back and needed to stop them fighting. Suddenly a little man in a hi viz appeared and started taking my number plate details,I drove off without ever getting out or even turning off my engine and a week later recieved a parking ticket which I ignored and eventually had to go to court where it was thrown out .
I fought 2 illegal parking tickets for my mother - they try it on all the way until you escalate to the independent appeals system. My mother was bombarded with emails with language such as ''It will end if you pay now''
They cancelled both tickets while they were halfway through independent appeals - I have no doubt someone there told them I had a serious court case for harassment of a vulnerable person.
The independent appeals organisations need to start charging firms for any complaint raised. That’s what the Financial ombudsman does which means firms will try to resolve it before it gets escalated.
@@Subvenio Brown envelopes under the table, that's what it is.
I would still sue. don't be the asshole who lets them keep harassing people.
It should be reasonable time. I pulled into one that used to be free no clear signs now until you drive onto it and decided I am not paying to park there when I saw the fees by the pay and display machine which can only be read if your are inside. You also have the right to make a mistake and realise it is permit only and drive out. Time to see the sign and read the terms and conditions which they use to fine you. Seems to me they should be obliged to have an in camera and an out one to allow a time on their tarmac.
I received a parking charge after being unable to pay at the ticket meters. Both meters ejected my coins. I tried paying over the phone but got cut off. Having an appointment to go to there wasn't time for me to download the companies app and go through the setup ext. After five or so minutes, I had no choice but to leave. I asked the company for details of when the meters are emptied and any calibration certificate. But no response. Just threatening demands. This happened four years ago. Now I avoid this type of carpark like the plaque.
Not in the UK, but I've had a few interesting parking fine disagreements over here.
One of the most annoying was in my home city. I had a resident's parking permit to park on my street. But winter had come and frozen all the windows over. So the parking enforcement did look at my car, scraped a bit of the windscreen in the driver's side bottom corner, saw no permit and fined me (technically it's a parking tax surcharge, but that's irrelevant). I fought it by stating that I did have the parking permit, which they confirmed, but I had it stuck behind the rear view mirror, so that it wouldn't obstruct any part of the windscreen while driving. After sending in photos the fine was dropped. The municipal law that regulates these parking permits still only states that it must be displayed in the windscreen of the car, but does not specify where in the windscreen.
Another one was just last year at my friend's mum's funeral. I have an EU disabled parking permit, but this municipality uses cars with ANPR systems to enforce parking. I was unaware that I would need a separate permit just for that municipality in order to be "allowed" to use my EU DPP there. But again after just informing them of my EU DPP the fines went away.
The worst one I've had to deal with was a village in Zeeland where parking enforcement was incredibly strict, but the only method to pay for parking was so outdated most banks had phased it out 18 months prior. The municipality did not offer any alternative kind of payment other than this obsolete payment method called ChipKnip. We ended up 4 minutes late to the car and the enforcement officer was extremely strict in his stance that 4 minutes late was too late, and he refused to have any sort of compassion.
So I fought the fine on the grounds that I wanted to pay, but couldn't because they only accepted an obsolete method of payment. When that didn't work, I decided to go fish for other things to frustrate said municipality with, and to my delight I found out that their parking enforcement did not have a mandate.
Well they did have a mandate, but not in a way that is legal. So yeah, no legal mandate means the officer couldn't have enforced the parking rules to begin with, so the fine he'd written technically speaking was just a note, not a fine.
The municipality didn't like that, so I had no choice but to take it to court. The judge agreed with me, there was no mandate, so there couldn't be a fine. The municipality appealed and the court of appeals then ruled that not only was my fine invalid and I did not have to pay it, the court made them reverse all of the fines issued since they'd changed their method of granting mandate to no longer be within the law. They had to pay back thousands of fines.
Suffice to say that municipality has since changed their method of granting mandate back to the old style, which is more convoluted and involved, but at least it's legal.
Putting my property management hat on, many owners of these car parks don’t get revenue from the parking, but get a fixed sum from the parking company. That’s why the parking companies just want revenue to make their outlay back.
In landlord and tenant terms, it would be taken to be a kind of licence, such as when you buy a ticket for a sporting match. You buy a ticket to use the seat for a period of time.
Parking is horrendous, I was in a multi-storey yesterday and the electronic ANPR payment wasn’t working and you could see the concern of people parking.
I’ve stopped in a parking bay before, got out, read the terms, and decided to reject them.. when i was unsure who owned the land of a car park and whether it would allow me to park for free as a customer of the shopping centre carrying a disabled passenger. The signs had the logo of both the shopping centre and the railway company but indicated a much higher price for parking than the standard shopping centre one despite being accessible only through a barrier clearly owned by the shopping centre. I decided to get back in the car and drive away, never heard anything from them and was allowed to exit via the barrier which also didn’t prevent me from leaving.
One thing I've noticed about this channel is that, although at the time of me writing this, there have been some 7.7k views of the above video - only 802 have actually given it a "like". I do wonder about that, because after all - what's not to like about the video content, or indeed any of the videos on this channel? That kind of thing seems to be a common occurrence on this channel & some other channels as well. I always believe in pressing the "like" button if I've enjoyed/liked the content of a video on a channel. Clearly there are a lot of other people who just do not do that.
Question: Do parking terms apply against a driver or all individuals inside a car? Many cases where driver has remained in the car while passengers have broken rules and been fined I.e. leaving the premises. But the driver receives the PCN. So actually is this enforceable?
aldi supermarket in leek staffordshire moorlands has the same parking, you drive in, they take your number, and if you dont park and go inside to enter and record your car reg prior to leaving they send a penalty notice through the post to you.
Thank you what you have said is how i have always interpretated these situations. Its common sense the Judges ruleing reflects this as Judges usually do and you have your own Reasonable Judgement. The problems surface when the Parking company dont take a balanced view or you try something you really know isnt right. There is one anomily here i have experienced though. I entered a car park noticed CCTV cameras and ticket Machine. I drove around waiting for a space i then Parked. I got out and walked towards the ticket machine. The terms and conditions sign was not there but displayed several feet away. I read the notice. Briefly it said i would incur a fine if after entering the car park i did not purchase a ticket within ten minutes. Note mention of parking 0 would be reasonable if it said so but no just entering. So if a not too sprightly older person enters drives around waits for a spare space gets out walks slowly to the machine and dispite purchasing a ticket they could breach the terms. Common sense is they got a ticket so no intentional evasion of payment for the time actually parked.. So would the company persue because of a breach of a condition or use common sense?. To me the sign should stipulate to by a ticket within 10 min of Parking. These are the times that separate a resonable company from others.
The London Borough of Hounslow have gone over to a 100% pay-by-phone system for their car parks.
There is an alternative of going to a "nearby" shop which is part of the Paypoint network, and pay there.
So if you don't have a smartphone, you have to walk to a shop to pay for parking.
If your phone battery is flat, you have to walk to a shop to pay for parking.
If you have an old phone that doesn't have, and can't get, a recent enough version of Android, you have to walk to a shop to pay for parking.
If you are a foreign visitor with a poor grasp of English you can probably work out how to put coins in a machine, but instructions to install an app (on your phone with oh-so-reasonable roaming data charges)? Nope, you going have to walk to a shop to pay for parking.
If you visit Chiswick House, the nearest shop to pay for parking is about a 20-minute walk away.
So that's 40+ minutes out of your visit just because Hounslow council are a bunch of scumbags.
curious if waiting for somebody would be classed as parking
you pull into a space and wait an hour for somebody and either dont leave the vehicle or get out to stretch you legs and stay close to the vehicle.
while you are still taking a space i dont meets the definition of being parked but most companies use anpr on the entrance & exit to calculate the time you are on the carpark rather than mesure the length of time vehicles are parked for
I used this defence against a parking eye parking charge notice.
I dropped my wife at an hotel for a meeting and pulled into a parking space to avoid obstructing other vehicles. I waited until she was inside the hotel and I then left, returning to collect her (pulling into a parking space again to avoid obstruction).
I explained that at no time had I left my vehicle or turned off the engine and that I would’ve vacated the space if another car required it (there were spaces left).
Without hesitation, parking eye cancelled the parking charge notice.
On a side note, I do occasionally park where I shouldn’t, but I accept the parking charge notice, pay it immediately and consider it a “convenience payment”. 😬
I think the issue is that the cameras are not able to detect all of these scenarios so the companies need to have a way of filtering. It isn't going to happen though as it requires people to then monitor the footage, so they will continue to try their luck and just basically issue a ticket to someone driving on and then driving off without making a payment, and then just deal with things if someone complains.
One thing I am sure they could do is allow 5 mins. OK that might miss people who have genuinely drove on, parked, nipped to the shop as you said and drove off, but that has to be rare. This way, if you drive on and off within 5 minutes then surely in most cases that would mean you haven't parked. As I say, they are not going to do this though as they are going to make it as hard as possible and hope people just get scared and pay the charge. I know the "5" minutes is debatable as some multi storey car parks could take longer than that to find a space, but surely it would cover most and make them look as if they are at least doing something for the public? 😀
I recall reading that the British Rail station in Reading had a (presumed to be privately owned) access road with double yellow lines and somebody (presumably the owner) was charging people for stopping and pausing to let a passenger out. The steps they will go to to avoid free drop-off !
East Mids Airport fine you if someone gets out whilst you're filling up!
@@asambrook76 How do you fill up without getting out though?
@@GMMilambar I guess they mean if they get out and don't return to the car. So you can't use their filling station to avoid a drop-off fee?
Our local hospital has double yellow lines in the drop off point, but the sign says waiting time no longer than 20 minutes.
Surely, it would be simple to pass legislation that all car parks have to give 5 mins grace period before any charge can take place....
10 mins please - it takes over 5 mins to find the terms and conditions sign they you have to erect the telescope so you can read the small print
2:55 I actually recently was on the UK legal reddit where somebody complained about this issue. They drove into a car park, ANPR controlled, drove around for a bit and decided they wasn't going to park for whatever reason, but instead stopped and had a phone call in their car. About 10 minutes later they left and then some time later got a fine and complained. Stands to reason he was stopped/waiting (and I'll assume he was hands free calling), rather than parked as such, he made a point he wasn't in a bay so likely stopped by a kerb somewhere. No idea how it ended up though.
Thanks so much , i've just subscribed , a few days ago ! many thanks for your legal advice ! 😊
it's legal guidance not advice
large carpark in Bicester Oxfordshire. You drive in park and a camera records your front number plate. when you return you put your number plate into the machine pay the charge and leave through the barrier. Getting back to the machine it wouldn’t recognise the number plate. At the barrier was an intercom. Explaining the situation the guy let us leave for free! Turns out the camera had failed to record our number plate on entry due to the Bull Bars fitted. Result.
What if you park your car then read the terms and conditions and then reject them and leave ? This happened to me a while ago. I went to a local carpark that had replaced all of its coin machines with a ‘SMART’ system. After parking, I read the sign and realised there was no way for me to actually pay. It told me that there were two options. The first one was to log on to a computer before you left home and pay. The second one was downloading an app on a smartphone. Obviously, the first option wasn’t possible as I was in the car park, and I couldn’t download the app as I don’t have a smartphone. So, I left the car park. Fortunately, I haven’t received a notice through the mail (yet).
This is the issue, scare you to pay. Approaches like that make me want to get back into practice and take cases pro bono for no other reason than showing them people fight back
Yes, and offering a so-called "discount" if you pay within a certain time should be outlawed as it is coercion.
Paying for parking can be difficult if not impossible. If you have the right change and it doesn't spit your money out, if the machine doesn't accept your card, if the machine is full due to a bank holiday etc. Now the banks have withdrawn from so many towns, availability of coins is becoming a problem, as shops become card only. In the countryside, conectivity is often problematic so modern solutions are temperamental too. More reasons why you put your car in a parking space but didn't pay for the 15 minutes of frustration.
I had it once.
My wife drove into a car park realised she didnt want to park there ( wrong place) there was a que to exit due to a lorry reversing in the main road blocking traffic.
It took her several minutes to exit. 2 weeks later a bloody PCN. I wanted to fight it but she was scared and paid.
5 years Im still bitter !
Yes similiar. Mine pulled in and tried to pay - first by app, then phone, then machine. Nothing worked, so she left. PCN two weeks later and like yours, she paid.
An all too frequent occurence, I think...
Pulled into Hillingdon yesterday . Got out of the car but someone in the car park said there were no trains that day at Hillingdon. I drove off. This video now bookmarked in case of PCN :-)
What would be the position if you drove into a car park, parked but didn’t leave your car when waiting to pick someone up?
So, for clarity and avoidance of doubt, if you pull your car in, go to the nearest ticket machine to pay but fund that it’s not working so you try a machine further away, but that is also non-functional so you leave to find alternative parking then you have not parked? My niece has been caught out by that scenario a couple of times but has been unable to get the PCN issued overturned.
There is a car park in my area that is well known for the machines taking the payment but not issuing a ticket, this tends to happen in the evening after the office on the other end of the phone number given on the terms and conditions sign has closed, with no voicemail facility or alternate contact number, or at the weekend. The local facebook groups are frequently filled by people who got a PCN despite having paid but the machine failed to issue a ticket. Presumably in that case you should leave and find alternative parking then try to get a refund when the office is open.
Did your appeal against a PCN reach court? If so could you give the case reference so if we find ourselves in the same situation we can cite the same references? Or is the case itself citable?
If you have to leave your vehicle (other than to read the terms and conditions) to be parked, does that mean that i could drive into a car park, eat the sandwich I had on the passenger seat, drank the can of coke i also already had, then drove off without having opened the car door, and it would not be classed as having parked my car, so wouldn't need to pay for it?
what if you pull into a car park and wait in your car for whatever reason, maybe you are waiting for somebody to come out of a shop or you just needed somewhere to wait... i would assume you couldn't argue against a charge even though you have not left the car because you would be taking up a space for an unreasonable amount of time. But as per the definition of parking, could you actually argue that you did not leave the car and park it?
My problem with this as an ex driving instructor is that the ability to read is not a condition of being able to pass a driving test as long as a person can identify letters and numbers. If dyslexic it is not even required that the letters and numbers be read in the correct order, so how can one reasonably expect everyone to be able to read parking restriction notices? Allowances are made for certain types of disability as long as it is included in the test application, including the written test. Or at least it was, I may be out of touch but I think I am still correct.
what if you drive into a space but dont get out of your car? effectly waiting as long you want then driving off? the case law seems to say its ok.
C'mon.....if you occupy a space and are stationary ....you are parked ....simple really.
if you drive into a car park but don't stop as there is nowhere to stop....and leave the car park....you haven't parked .
@@oddjobtriumph1635
Not if you simply got out to read the conditions because they were not readable from the parking space and decided the conditions were not acceptable and then left not having accepted the conditions.
@@BrianMcGuirkBMG There is a very good argument there - And it is something that Legally all Car Park Operators are supposed to adhere to - Though we know that many do not and sadly, No MP seems to be bothered enough to make sure the law is enforced!
In Law, in the UK at least - All Parking Areas that Charge for Parking are supposed to ensure that Terms and Conditions are CLEARLY VISIBLE at the point of Entry! If you have to leave your vehicle to read the ToC... They are in fact breaking the law... and any PCN issued should be classed as invalid, But as it is down to a Magistrates discretion... There are times when despite the company NOT adhering to law and ToC or Signs being obscured - They still win!
In the UK at least - If you are using a paid Car Park... The Terms should be AT THE POINT OF ENTRY AND CLEARLY VISIBLE! In the UK, You should NOT have to leave your car to see the ToC or how much it will cost to park... Sadly, again.. No one cares enough to make sure these companies do actually follow the rules!
@@Phoenix2312
I would make the point that even though the terms and conditions are 'visible' at the entrance, it may be impossible to stop and read them because you might be blocking others. In addition, the T&Cs while visible that they are at the entrance they may not be readable from your vehicle due to the print size.
You will find the prices in larger print but not the entire t&c details.
[Attempting to read these comments or the terms and conditions should not be read while driving a moving vehicle].
@@BrianMcGuirkBMG Yes, there is a massive argument for clarity on them... Now and again it gets bought up in the Commons, but sod all actually get done!
I have noticed that some airports classify the approach roads as private property and warn that there is no stopping to let out passengers. The airport (Stansted) does offer a drop off at a £7 fee or for free but further away at mid-stay with a 5 minute free bus ride to the airport. Can you be liable for a PCN or other action? There are terms on display but you would have to stop and examine them to better understand them.
In some country's there is writing law on when a car is parked, it goes like "It is parking when your car is stopped for more than 3 minutes, less than 3 minutes is stopping", it should be simple but there is cases going to court on this issue, both car owners, the police and car parking companys really can't figure it out.
i had one at Warwick Hospital, came extra early as previously 30 mins was not enough to find a place and before did not have anpr cameras.. turned up about an hour before appointment thought loads time to get a parking spot it was from from plenty time appointment past so i left after 50 mins driving laps. i got ticket, entrapment as park out side of bay to go and pay a ticket or just leave a ticket was no way out esp for spend another hour plus trying to find a place. refused to deal with parking company they wanted me to post appeal to them ii told them where to go, a very straight to the point email to management at the hospital as to me it was entrapment they said they sort it, took two emails the final one sorted it. why should i have to leave house to prove i did nothing wrong, hell no i was willing to go to court if hospital did nothing. still not been back there but only way i see getting around another ticket if just as busy wait at the first camera blocking car park entrance, still angers me when think about it so who knows how i be on next visit, very least a dam pain to parking office as im making sure i get my free time not lose it while finding a place and only pay for what i used after that, if very busy anger gets better i block entrance till i see a parking spot them enter. who knows how i react reason ive done all i can to get appointment elsewhere, a place you meant to get help and they do this, not on
I would have, and still do think, the carpark monitoring system ought to allow a 5 minute grace period before it assumes one has parked. Or better still have an automatic barrier that would allow access upon which one knows there is a charge. The trouble now days is that since the law has changed a car can only be clamped by the police or local authorities. We had a problem with a neighbour parking on our 4 house private driveway. The police advised us that we could neither clamp the car or tow it off our driveway. However if had a gate open or in our case pull up bollards that we had fitted and a sign stating no parking, if a car were then to park we were legally entitled to close the gate or pull up the bollards, and then refused to open them again until we were ready. This we did, and the said neighbour never parked on our driveway again.
I received a parking charge notice for overstaying, the evidence they provided was two photos, one on entry to the car park and one on exit, I appealed on the grounds that they had no photos of my car actually parked on their land and that there were other areas, accessed through their car park, where I could have parked without penalty.
Penalty charge cancelled
What if you drive in, park, go to the machine and it's broken, or doesn't accept cash, so you decide to leave.
Thats happened to me two times.
We called at a Holiday Inn recently, in a hire car. We went to see if there were rooms available.
They had no rooms, due to migrants, so we went back to the car.
I received a bill from the hire company, saying they had paid my parking fine, and they wanted me to pay an extra £15 to them in administration fees.
Firstly, I didn't realise that there would be a charge for enquiries, and secondly, why would the hire company pay the fine without knowing the facts.
Have they acted legally?
I was nearly caught in the same circumstances - luckily I saw the sign before entering reception - I asked reception and they pointed to a terminal - "Just put your rego in there and it will be fine"
@@barrieshepherd7694
I rang the hotel in Swindon, and they said they would try to cancel the fine. I haven't heard back from the hire firm yet.
There's a notorious site where it js impossible to pay by any means. They dont take cash and there is no Internet signal. But they issue a charge notice if you stop. Indeed they issued a charge notice to a delivery van which crossed the car park to to the cafe whichhas its own space for delivery vehicles to park.
I just paid a PCN relating to an incident last month where the clutch failed late at night in a lot where there was a 3 hr limit. I arranged for a towing company to pick it up the following morning and take it to a nearby repair depot. Usually these parking sharks are pretty quick with automated violations but this one took considerably longer as my car had to be loaded on the flat bed. The violation "evidence" was a picture of my car on the back of the recovery vehicle . I suspect their automation did not detect my car leaving so they probably had to manually check but even though my car had clearly broken down they show no mercy!
You only owed them for proportionate compensation for an invoice not paid, in order words, reasonable damages for an unpaid invoice, not unreasonable "fines", if their car park was full, and you deprived them of a legitimate customer then they can argue that you owe them. Otherwise ride it out and it's not worth their while to pursue it half the time.
Well, isn't it convenient that your clutch decided to "fail" in a lot with a 3-hour limit? It must have been an Oscar-worthy performance on your car's part, acting all broken down. I'm sure those parking enforcers were just heartless for not believing in the "clutch fairy tale." Maybe next time, your car could throw in some tears for a more convincing performance? In my car park, even the recovery vehicle would have gotten a PCN for attempting to aid such a creative excuse. 🤨
@@_.Madness._ About that - the "evidence" picture the enforcers sent me as to my "infraction" is one of my car clearly strapped on a tow truck. I also have the 200 pound repair bill from the garage it was towed to. If that's "acting" I'd hate to see your version of reality!!!!!
@@mpwaterhouse You pleaded guilty and paid it. You have no case.
@@_.Madness._ Not my point at all - it was intended as insight for others ... public service rather than public shaming.
Morrisons in High Wycombe have gone and upset a lot of loyal customers. They have hired Euro Car Parks to manage their car park, where punters are allowed to stay for 2 hours. After that it is a £100 fine. The problem is, the camera is not located at the entrance / exit to the car park. The reason why ALL similar car parks using number plate recognition have the camera at the place where you enter and leave the car park is obvious. It means the system only times the duration of your stay in the car park! Obvious, right? Well at Morrisons Wycombe Euro Car Parks have deliberately located the camera a hundred yards down the road from the car park. It is at the point where you leave the public highway and enter Morrisons land. The problem is that between the car park and the camera is the Morrisons petrol station and the car wash! We left the car park after 1 hour and 15 mins. Well inside the 2 hour maximum permitted. We gassed up, which took 5 minutes then queued and used the car wash. That took 45mins. So although we did not break the rules we got fined anyway - and this is happening to customers to this day. We complained and the fine was scrapped but if we had not kept our store and garage receipts it would have been a different story.
I am aware of PCNs being issued (and upheld) on cars overstaying their parking period because they tried to leave (in good time) but were then stuck in the queue waiting to leave the car park....
Very interesting, thanks. I wonder if one stops in a parking space without ever leaving the car, and just takes a nap for a few hours, might one be deemed to have parked?
I believe that with Parking Eye at least that you are assumed to have agreed to comply with their"rules" of the car park. You can end up with a penalty if you infringe them. So for instance if you enter the car park and leave by a route other than a designated exit even if you left within the initial free period of parking you can be penalised.
But you can only agree to their terms if you have a chance to read them.
My god, did he not explain the law clear enough. In your scenario, they would have to show and prove what time you left, you are in fairy land, me thinks you just like challenging his account, sad.
You can be sent an invoice. How you deal with that invoice is up to you but there is plenty of advice and template letters online to help you decide after becoming fully informed on the subject.
Just a daft scenario; if you have not left your vehicle can you just sit in it to wait for someone or have a nap?
Yes
I'll tell you where we're going: your computer AI is connected to google and other ai elsewhere. It hears you talking about parking at Bob's Car park in Putney and at the end of the month you get a charge notice because you were THINKING about parking by CONSPIRING with your wife to park your car at Bobs Car park. This is where we are headed.
There is also the scenario where you drive up to the entrance and the terms and conditions are clearly displayed and you do not agree with them. However, because there is now a queue of cars behind, you are unable to reverse and you have no choice but to drive in and then out as soon as you can. It would be unreasonable to give you a parking charge notice.
I had an appointment at my local hospital, the car park it is not a camera and registration system but a pay-and-display monitored by an in house car park attendant. On this particular day the machine in my section of the Carpark had a printed note simply saying ‘this machine is out of order’, and nothing else. As I am a frequent visitor I was aware of a 2nd machine approx 250 yards away on the other side of the hospital so I walked around the building and bought a ticket. So my question is, with the original note not giving any further instructions or any directions to a working machine, or even if there is a 2nd working machine - how much effort should you reasonably be expected to make to search for a 2nd method of paying. Even without the worry of getting to an appointment on time, had I walked left instead of right I would have had to have made a complete circuit of this city hospital to find the 2nd machine - no mean feat I can tell you with all its Porto cabins and added extensions it’s had over the past 50 years, it’s quiet a mishmash of buildings and roads.
Airports have been pushing charges for their drop off zones, anyone driving through the zone gets picked up on ANPR and they demand people to pay the "drop off charge" even if the vehicle does not stop.
Gatwick does that
This is very interesting. What about the extortionate charges for "pick up and drop off car parks" in Airports? Can they charge you for parking if you've not parked and just picked someone up?
Also, if I may ask, what happens when you're at a barrier with no option to turn back and only by the barrier are the parking charges visible? If you decide not to accept them you're unable to reverse out and have no option but to collect the ticket thus implying you're accepting the terms when in fact you're not.
I'm sorry if my question wasn't clear, I hope it was and would greatly appreciate your opinion.
I guess that if the conditions are "you will be charged for Drop off/Pick up then your are stuffed (not a legal term) It's immoral in my view but Governments love giving corporations the opportunity to further tax us, and our cars, off the roads.
There are videos on here of them calling armed police over, who try and intimidate the driver into paying / giving details.
If you have no means of payment or ID there is little they can do except take your number plate, and invoice the registered keep
What if you send a passenger out of the car, for example to get a better look at the parking terms or see if the shop adjacent to the parking spot had change for the meter, leaving the car started and the driver in position at the wheel?
@BlackBeltBarrister @7:00 You mention having to display a permit. Is that the ticket given when you paid to park? Assuming that the 'permit' is printed upon being paid, what is the theoretical remedy if a 'permit' is not printed when you paid? I am in the US and this happens to privately enforced on-street public parking where you pay and sometimes no ticket/permit is printed.
What about the scenario if you are driving to a particular car park to eat your lunch, in your car? You never leave your car but are staying in the car park for a prolonged period.
Question just back from a motorhome trip to wales. I stopped at service area just got out of the 'van' to do a walk round check and then had a sandwich. So never left the motorhome did I park?
Only really relevant as I read the parking terms and I was stationary in a area not marked for parking Oops potential £100 fine/ sorry charge.
I got a charge at terminal 5 as drove in to the pickup/ drop off and read the sign, it said you could only stay for a small amount of time and as I was early, I drove away and returned at the correct time and paid. I still got a penalty charge for the first visit and driving off. They said entering the zone was chargeable, however, the signs advising this were at the point of no return where you couldn’t turn around or select an alternative route. They offered a nominal fee which I ended up accepting but still think its wrong.
Are you parking if you occupy a parking space but do not leave the vehicle? I do this several times a year at hospital sites where I have brought a family member for a consultation. Normally, I sit with the vehicle, listening to the radio for up to 2 hrs on occasion and usually the family member pays for the parking charge as they return, but if I have not left the vehicle then have I parked? It irritates me that hospitals require patients to attend appointments at sites where parking is charged, these can be (on occasion unreasonably) lengthy visits that costs several £s. We have to use a car to get to the hospital up to 15 miles away as there is no public transport available. The last time I pointed out the issue with public transport I was told that I could drive to the Park and Ride, pay parking fees and bus fees and the bus would drop us off at one of the three hospital sites we visit, in that case the whole trip would cost double what it does to go all the way by car and according to the timetable add around 1 hour to our journey..
I had a PCN when I purchased a parking ticket but had nowhere to put it in full view as the dashboard was well sculpted and the ticket kept sliding off onto the floor. i ended up putting it onto the seat (driver's seat in a LHD car). My current car has a convenient clear plastic clip attached to the windscreen perimeter specifically for this purpose - well done Skoda!
What if you waited in the car while someone else went to the shop, would that still be classed as parking?
No, you are waiting, not parked. That's why there are separate road signs for no parking, no waiting, and no stopping.
Yes because the vehicle is stationary. There are specific contraventions for "parked for no purpose" and "parked with engine running"
@@Guardian2003 The term "parking" in the context of UK law is generally interpreted to mean leaving a vehicle stationary for a period other than the time needed to pick up or set down passengers or to load or unload goods. However, the specific definitions and rules for determining whether a vehicle is considered "parked" can vary depending on the local jurisdiction and any Traffic Regulation Orders (TROs) that may be in effect.
Some TROs may specify that a vehicle is considered "parked" if it is left unattended for more than a specified period (e.g., 2 minutes, 10 minutes, etc.). Others might define "parking" based on the driver's intent-i.e., if the driver leaves the vehicle with the intent of doing something other than immediately resuming driving, then the vehicle is considered "parked."
Generally, you have to leave your vehicle, or not be doing something with it. If you're sat in it for the minimum time required for your passenger to get out of the shop and back into the car, you're not parked. You have the intent to start driving again as soon as possible, you're not going to leave the vehicle there, and you'll be there for the minimum time required to conduct your business, which is picking up a passenger.
On the definition of “parking” how would a driver pulling into a space and waiting be interpreted? 2 scenarios come to mind- 1) pulling into a pay and display space for only 5 minutes whilst say collecting somebody from a shop/store and they take. Few minutes to appear; 2) pulling into a space for 20-30 minutes, say at a train station to collect somebody and there are unexpected delays , but not leaving your car at all in either case?
That is already clarified in law... Bear in mind this video is about Private Companies trying to charge people for simply entering a premises!
The Law was updated to clarify - If a Vehicle is within a designated area and Motionless, Then it is classed as being Parked. The Term Motionless does suggest that the engine is also "Switched Off" but is not required - So, No you could not sit in your car or leave it with the Engine Running to escape a parking charge...
There is however allowances for "Disembarking" - So if you were just dropping off passengers, Your engine is still running and you have no intent on staying - Provided you do not remain longer than is absolutely necessary - You are not considered to have Parked. I should add that's a very case by case basis... For instance, Say you are transporting a Disabled passenger - You may have to allow for extra time to say Put up their Wheelchair... And there are Legal cases where Private Parking Companies have been fought and LOST when they have tried to issue Parking Charge Notices to people transporting Disabled Passenger's in exactly those circumstances - Bad News though, There are also as many cases where the PCN issuer has also WON - It is down to a Magistrates discretion!
The Video is NOT directly about Parking Law... But about how Private Companies are Exploiting peoples lack of understanding.... I do feel that Danial may have to make a follow up video to clarify what exactly parking is as the same question is being asked or "Loophole" being suggested by many... I feel some - Not you, You have been very sensible - Are WILLFULLY misrepresenting the video and hoping they may get a chance to "Break the law Legally"
Your comment posed the question very well... Most refreshing to see!
@@Phoenix2312 many thanks for such a detailed response, it was very much appreciated. The status of “Motionless” would be at odds with the content of the video though, specifically with regards to the part about exiting the vehicle to read (and then disagree with) the terms and then leaving the car park. I am not very well versed in these specific areas so always good to debate the various interpretations that could apply legally. Thanks again for your response!
@@old-barn I only chimed in as the scenario in the video is VERY SPECEFIC... and the case law that Danial is Quoting is Specific to that ONE SCENARIO... Sadly, there are a lot f comments here from people who drive (I dont!) who are actually misrepresenting the video and may even try and use it as a defence to overturn fines, only to end up laughed at and getting an even bigger fine...
... I mean, I get it Parking Charges can be extortionate, I am glad I don't drive and have to park at my local hospital... Its ATROCIOUS! But will fully "Misunderstanding" Danial's Video is just wrong!
He was very clear in his video - But people are trying to twist it!
Double dipped by a company, pictures showed a 3 point turn. Photo showed the car with reverse lights on "driving out the car park" on the wrong dide of the road and a rear photo of the car "entering the car park"on the wrong side of the road. There were no pictures of the front of the car at alll. Never actually entered the car park, there is a clear line but the camera is placed at the corner before the car park. Good job we have dash cam and could show it was fraudulent
The following is taken from the New Zealand Road User Rule 2004, which is part of the Land Transport Act.
Part 6 Stopping and parking
6.1Vehicles must be parked with due care and consideration
A driver or person in charge of a vehicle must not stop, stand, or park the vehicle on a road, whether attended or unattended, without due care or without reasonable consideration for other road users.
Therefore in NZ the definition of parking is bringing the vehicle to a stop other than at a junction or in heavy traffic, even if you don't exit the vehicle and even if you do not turn the vehicle off.
If a vehicle drives around the car park and does not come to a stop in any space it would be considered not to be parked, and therefore should not be liable for a penalty charge.
Unfortunately, there appears to be an ambiguity in the quote from Ashby v Tolhurst. "Parking a car is leaving a car and, I should have thought, nothing else". Maybe I will be seen as playing at semantics here, but "leaving a car" could be interpreted as - I left my car in the car park and went to the football match -, or it could mean - I left my car (as in stepped out of it) to check the Ts and Cs. They may seem similar, but if, for example, you were to fly into Heathrow Airport, you might well say that you "left the airport to go home", but no one of sound mind would interpret that as meaning you had put the airport somewhere. As a complete layman when it comes to law I would have thought that using this statement as a precedent could be argued against either way.
I was hoping you would extend the scenarios to include stopping but not 'leaving' the car. Instead remaining in the car for an extended period.
As this doesnt seem to be adequately adressed by the wording of the ruling you cited.
I once pulled into a car park at a supermarket following a long drive and needed to take a rest before continuing my journey, I never stepped out of the car and went to sleep for 30 mins. I didn’t realise that the carpark had installed ANPR cameras for parking and I received a PCN. I tried to appeal it but failed. Would this fall under the ‘not leaving’ my car.
No, because your spirit was journeying out into the dream world 🤣. I'd love to see that written into a piece of legislation 😁.
So let's say there is nowhere to park on the road. I drive into a car park and my wife gets out and goes to the shops for half an hour. She comes back and I drive off without paying. I haven't left my vehicle.
OR
I drive into a car park because I have 30 minutes to kill before I need to be somewhere. So I read a book and then drive off without paying. In both instances I have used the private land without paying and without leaving the car. Surely this is not allowed?
What happens in cases where you drive into a car park, examine the Ts and Cs, decide you don't like them and try to leave but you cannot leave without paying to exit because there is a barrier in place?
I have done this once - they wanted £5 for 15 mins - so I drove round and stopped at the barrier and pressed the Assist button. The operator argued but the queue to leave behind me was getting annoyed and I told the operator I was not moving till either they called the police or opened the barrier - they relented.
You grow a pair and tell them to feck off!! Simple.
All this hassle could be avoided if Parking was Free,
it used to be, but now everything you do needs payment.
You have one section of society who do genuinely productive work, the rest of society seem to dream up ever more reasons why they need your hard earned.
The simple fact of parking used to be free.
or, instead of using that land for providing the service of a parking area, they could use it for something else. Private land providing car parking is because your council isn't providing the level of parking needed. Start complaining to the council.
What if you sleep in the car overnight then? Still can't be classed as parking? What if you're sleeping in a campervan? You haven't left the vehicle then either have you? I suppose there could be 2 definitions of "leave" couldn't there? One with driver in it and one with the driver NOT in it? Right?
One of our supermarkets had a sign in the car park that read customers only, I was challenged as I was walking off site instead of into the store. Told him I had to go to the bank first to check my cash available prior to shopping, got back to my car and he was lurking beside it, I hadn't gone in to the store, was going to be fined so I said I'll see you in court then, I'll see what the court decides when I show that I didn't have enough in my bank account to purchase anything hence why I was leaving. He went off scratching his head over that one! Another store car park was signed regular customers only, I told them I was a regular, I shop once a year at Christmas therefore I was entitled to park year round as many times as I wished to. They changed that sign to add whilst in store only 😟