Is this ANOTHER casualty of the MODERN DAY industry?
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- Опубліковано 18 чер 2024
- Tonight we're a bit late, but jumping into Lucy Thomas's performance of 'Have Yourself a Very Merry Christmas'!
Original Video - • Have Yourself a Merry ...
TIME STAMPS -
0:00 Intro
1:17 Performance
1:46 Analysis
2:29 Lucy CAN sing!
5:25 It's Actually BETTER Than This!
7:23 Hearing the Process
9:14 Why We're Losing Unique Vocalists
11:31 It's a Problem!
14:30 Me Inventing Live Pitch Correction!
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I'm glad you said something because Lucy has a beautiful voice that definitely doesn't need correction. It's much more beautiful raw. Have a great weekend.
Agreed - I will remain a fan of Lucy and I hope to see her live soon when her musical "Rosie" is on stage.
She doesn't need to be trashed for views and super like donations either. Do not think for one second this is not hurting her all so this guy can get attention.
@@SaraSmith-cx3ew
It's probably hurting her producers more who were too tone deaf to acknowledge Lucy's voice doesn't need pitch correction.
Why wouldn't it be? The industry is ruining everything that they can about pop music just to pad their pockets. It's a disgusting shame.
The INDUSTRY is 3 labels called The Big Three Labels , Universal Warner and Sony. For the last 20 years they have consolidated their control. Notice the difference in music???
Here's an example. .
For reference, each of the three major labels possesses or possessed stock in Spotify. Universal Music Group relayed that it owned 6.49 million Spotify shares as of June 30th, 2022.
So who do you think Spotify listens to, you or Mr 6 million shares?
@@TomHendricksMusea Indeed. It’s like when Clearchannel and I Heart Radio INC. took over all of radio. Their business model was literally “What 100 songs will people listen to and NOT turn the station? Let’s play the hell out of those.” There is no uniqueness or individuality, it’s all for the dollar. Or, to use Mr. Krabs observations, “Ah, the fact that their feeble minds are easily manipulated by cheap playgrounds and talentless clowns is no skin off my nose.”
@@brendencarlson5220 The final proof of this music monopoly is very clear when you see that music never changes and the same few are promoted year after year.
Music has never been this stagnant for this long!
@@brendencarlson5220Spot-on. Remember the days when radio was GREAT!? I grew-up in the 60’s and 70’s when radio was a BIG part of, at least, MY life and the lives of all my friends. Our local FM station had things like “Sunday night jazz hour” and Friday night “album-night,” where you could listen to things like Dark Side of the Moon-in its entirety. We depended on it to know who was coming to town to play and where/when to get tickets. They had hilarious DJ’s who were bonafide celebrities. That station was a staple from 1976 until it was taken over by Clear Channel in what, the early 90’s maybe? Now it’s just another “classic radio” station with zero personality. I know I’m old but radio used to be fun AND relevant. 🫤
I never thought that Chris Broom and Cavindish records would do this. They have signed some of the best young singers. Fooled me!
Couldn't agree more Fil, this young lady doesn't need pitch correction or any gimmick. She has all the natural talent in the world already.
Thank you! Lucy Thomas is a treasure as is! I have said it and written it for years: Imperfection, in small amounts, is what creates ineffable beauty and artistry. I am a calligrapher. Computer-generated calligraphy lacks the subtle variations that make lettering analog and human: in other words, unique! If one takes a picture of a human face, dissects it vertically, then makes two new "faces" of each composed of mirror images, they both look artificial, and thus sterile: The subtly imperfect, and thus living, nuances are lost. Excessively asymmetric features are perceived as unappealing, but subtly asymmetric features are often perceived as very appealing.
Your comment made me think of one I recently saw on a movie video. The person had time stamped an onscreen letter and posted a question mark.
I wrote it out, and then realized that the person couldn’t read cursive. It wasn’t perfect cursive, but every word was readable.
I know this is off topic, but it relates to the skills being lost (reading analog clocks, reading and writing cursive, doing basic math in our heads, and hearing natural vocals).
I _can_ hear the mechanical artifacts in auto tune, and some of the “off” noises in Melodyne software as “wrong” (not human), but I think that the younger generation can’t, because it’s all they listen to.
For this reason alone, I would recommend setting voice apps like Maps and Siri to an accent that isn’t local (mine’s an Australian man) to prevent us from being accustomed to hearing a robot voice.
FIL, I picked up pitch correction in just a few seconds , thanks to your teaching . She has a beautiful natural voice . Make it stop, Fil ! Natural voices are being wiped away. 😢 Great analysis!
Imagine a world where the Consumer chooses "raw" or "edited" version.
😊😊😊
@@R.Akerman-oz1tf Wow , that would be something new !
This young lady has a beautiful voice . This is mechanical sounding in spots even with my hearing aides. It is a sad state of affairs what is happening with music now. Great analysis as always. Thank you for this.
Technology & manipulation makes mediocre singers somewhat tolerable. Talented singers like Lucy, with her angelic voice, need to fight for her authentic performances and proclaim the integrity of productions proudly. Reverb, chorus and compression are the limits of ethical enhancements. A magnificent tone is the foundation of a great voice.
I have heard Lucy sing live, busking on the street, singing in the car. She has as good a voice as anyone singing today.
Voices like that of Lucy Thomas come along so rarely. One other modern singer that comes to mind is Hannah Reid of London Grammar. One from the 1990s who is sadly overlooked is Mary Fahl who briefly fronted October Project.
@@DanielByers-qf9qi Hannah Reid is a very fine vocalist!.
@@DanielByers-qf9qi Try Angelina Jordan. She sings acapella at the Norways Got Talent.
I'm a Fool to Want You - Billy Holiday She was 7 when NGT started and 8 when she won.
@@hakan8997 Even here! 😴 How desperate AJ must be. 😂
@@ChrisScott0 Desperate? Explain!
Give me Judy Garland singing this song any day (& twice on Sunday) from the movie Meet Me in St. Louis. Lucy Thomas clearly has a beautiful voice that doesn't need a smidge of pitch correction. Too bad. ☕
I thought of Judy Garland too! Totally agree!
It says a lot about this modern age. Fixing things that don't need to be fixed. Beautiful voice.
freespirit it also says a lot more as to the real intent of the music industry, investors, yes the money hungry mongers want their return on investment and they do not care how they get it !!!
Fil, This lovely young lady, Lucy Thomas, has the most beautiful voice I have ever heard in my 77 years. Her luscious smooth rich tone and vibrato will touch you if you let it. She doesn't strain to hit a note. She doesn't over sing. Her excellent breath support allows her to hold a note nice and steady. Lucy Thomas is for real! Doesn't your video cast some doubt on that? Kit
The take from the video is they're using pitch correction to litterally every singer, not if the singer is good or bad per se.
Wow that's a crime. I'd love to hear her natural voice.
You do hear Lucy's natural voice for most of the video! I think there needs to be some perspective here with a vocalist of Lucy's quality! Lucy does not need pitch correction, as Fil has indicated. Very few would be able to distinguish any meaningful difference between Lucy live and Lucy on a pitch corrected video - if anything the video will sound less intimate and less pleasing to the ear. Those lucky enough to be attending Lucy's first public concert at the Stoller Hall in March are in for an unforgettable experience! 😀
@@michaelhingley4770I don’t propose to speak for Leslie or Fil, and the singer seems to have a really great voice, but I think the whole point is why should we, as listeners, have to wonder if what we’re hearing is 100% or 90% “real?” I wouldn’t buy a pencil that was “guaranteed to write 90% of the time!” In my opinion, going back in time and applying pitch-correction or auto tune to 40 and 50 year old live performances should be outlawed. Period. Even in things like collecting antique furniture or paintings, if you strip off the original finish on a 200 year old desk, it cuts its value as a collectible DRASTICALLY. Try selling a Rembrandt that’s been 10 percent “touched-up” by Bob Ross and see how it goes.
You are pushing against an open door here, as I also find post enhancement disappointing, particularly for Lucy, but, as Fil suggests, this has become the norm with video production these days! ☹️
@@michaelhingley4770 We also have to understand each and every time any singer sings a song they may make some changes in the way the song is delivered, it will not be exactly the same, but who really cares???? it gives character to the song, and some singers do it on purpose....do we really expect perfection every time a song is sung ???
@@michaelhingley4770 Not much different than most everything else today "marketed" even the food you eat is "enhanced" and it is NOT for our benefit but for the producer, retailer, shelf life, but is it any better ??? Hell NO !!!
Lucy has been signed to Cavendish records since she was 14, I love her voice and I'm sorry that they've been doing that to her. Anyway she has her first public concert next month at the Stoller Hall in Manchester, she is also set to star in a new West end Musical called Rosie, due to open sometime in Autumn, so there will be plenty of chances to assess her voice live coming up. Thank you for the honest review.
Doesn`t mean a thing, they will pitch correct her even on stage. That`s todays, so called, music scene!.
@@jellybean8167 Can they do that as well? Fck me. Didn't this guy, sorry, don't know his name, say that they would need AI to do that? I don't understand all this crap.
@@jellybean8167Who is 'they'? I am pretty sure that only 'post' pitch correction is currently available. Whilst it is disappointing that Lucy's production team has employed 'post' with any of her videos, especially as it is not necessary, I don't believe that this is a seismic revelation, and should be kept in perspective!
Having watched a video of Lucy's live private concert in the US late last year, where she sang 14 songs off the reel, with only a piano accompaniment, I can categorically allay any concerns that this reaction video may have raised. 😄
Hi Michael, I believe what you say is true, but `live´ is one thing and video is somethingelse again isn`t it. If you post on You Tube then you have to expect your work to be analysed and compared. The possibility to `enhance´ or even `fake´ your performance is given, thankfully the possibility to recognise the `enhanced´ or `faked´ is also given!.
I have no other comment to make about this singer Lucy as I have never heard of her before or know anything about her quality.
@@michaelhingley4770 was that the 1 in Texas? Is there a link to that? Thanks
I remember when you did a video about the Lennnon sisters, and how their harmonies were spot on. This pitch correction stuff is so sad.
Fil, bless your heart...excellent analysis!
Thanks Fil for the professional analysation, and as you say Lucy doesn't need this. Many producers out there these days are pitch correcting. Plus so many buttons and sliders in the mixing studio all doing something. I doubt a girl 13 upwards or her mum knows what the producer and mixer is doing or has done. I suppose it's a recognized tool used today, but I hope this will make them rethink and stop.
When I first heard this Christmas song video I thought it sounded very polished. Too perfect. However I was very observant at a recent up close live performance where Lucy sang this live, and she sounded ‘exactly’ the same live singing this song. To my naked ears she sounded the same, which I thought was remarkable, while she sounded slightly different in her other live songs, so no trickery. However looking the evidence here it is clear her videos have been enhanced, and it’s not possibly to be so perfect. Strange though she sounded the same live. Pity! I hope Lucy can look at this herself, and not let this go forward. I would sooner support a lesser singer than a better artificial one.
Chris, do you think this is an over zealous sound engineer, or do the management team think this is a legitimate course of action, if the latter is the case im very afraid that this video may do damage to her, and their future careers,
i really hope that Lucy can put a stop to this totally unnecessary enhancement of an already perfect voice,!!
Regards Ian, Im at her concert in march, i hope this will allay my concerns.
@@iancave-nu1ff Hi Ian, in reply to what you ask here and elsewhere there are a couple of our gang in discussions on here, I’m in some. There were attempts on FB 🤐, but I think all those are now with Wilbur in Siberia,but there is more free speech on UA-cam. 😶 I’ve got VERY much detailed to say about this, but nobody would read so much.
Yes I would - if I was Chris Broom I would tell and I’d do it here on this post and be completely honest as probably it was acceptable back then. Things change quickly in IT and tools used then were probably used without thinking more or if the same technology would be used later to uncover. It’s her producers fault but remember the recording mixing studio is full of buttons and sliders and they all do something! Probably computers were the next stage to quickly produce.
Morissette Amon, Allie Sherlock, Celine Dion, Carrie Underwood, Michael Bublé, etc, etc, all caught using pitch correction, and they all continue. If we let it then yes this video will damage Lucy and no doubt upset her, but she’ll get over it with live performances. But Lucy needs to be strong now and do live performances and allow fan videos to prove her ability. I hope this won't involve Martha.
No I think this was an easy tool the producer thought might help compete with everybody else using it. Then it just became usual practice to speed up production. Run being an earlier video so I presume done on all. I had my suspicions of Have Yourself A Very Merry Christmas, which were squashed listening Lucy live.
Lucy probably didn’t even know about this. She was only 13 and went with her mum. She’ll sing and do as told and the producers put it together. Lucy busy with school etc probably just does the same now as she did aged 13, goes sings and does as instructed. But she knows now! 🙁
We all have made Lucy a hard bed. Lucy’s team enhancing her videos, that now Lucy somehow has to match live. Live performances not quite right removed, so we only see perfect tweaked videos. Then us boosting her reactions declaring she is an angel and the best female singer on the planet. How then can poor young Lucy fulfil all those embellished expectations singing live at her first concert? Plus now after this all will be scrutinizing. Lucy never said she was the best female singer - we did! 😟 It’s not Lucy's fault - it is us to blame and the music industry. 😔 I don’t know, but maybe this might be a good thing, and will remove some of the over hype pressure we have put on her. She can then be comfortable developing and enjoying her singing career. I for one will continue to support Lucy even if she is a lesser but genuine singer. 👍🙂
Live is always different to videos, for many legitimate reasons. Don’t worry about Lucy’s singing but don’t expect it to be ‘exactly’ the same as your CD. You’ll listen for yourself soon. 🙂
@@ChrisScott0
Having recently watched and observed the uploads of Lucy's recent live performances at Stoller Hall there was absolutely no Auto-Tune or vocal enhancements and my conclusion is exactly the same as it has always been even with her allegedly pitch corrected studio recordings and that is she is the greatest female singer in the world today, she actually sounds even better live then she does with all the studio gloss. So if this video was some attempt to discredit her talent it categorically failed!
If you read this Chris Broom are you using pitch correction with Lucy's recordings!?
johncollins and we need to ask him if he is who is making that decision??? Him, he "owns" the record company but it is backed by, and really owned by an investment group, who are expecting a return on there investment........ remember MONEY controls and runs the world !!!! The rich get richer on the backs of common people.....
He is a modern classical composer who partly owns the record label (it's under his name at least) but I'm not sure how knowledgeable he is in the record producing part of things, I'd imagine he leaves all that to more reputable people in that field.
Angelina Jordan recently (Dec) sang "Unchained Melody" live at the Nobel Peace Prize ceremony with the Kork orchestra. May be worth a look for you. I would hope something as prestigious as that did not have pitch correction. Sad to see this as Lucy does not in any way need this stuff. Thanks for the reaction.
I have heard her live and she is amazing. When I hear her sing covers and originals I find it hard to believe they are corrected
I've learned so much from your channel. As a child of the 80's and 90's, my high school/college years were when pitch correction started to really be a thing. I always gravitated to music from before my time. I thought it was just the style of music. While it partially is, it's also the singer. I have discovered soooo many "old" singers as an adult, who have really unique voices and expression. But when i try to get into singers now, they all sound the same.
I believe that Melodyne hit the market in 2001. Prior to that, auto tune existed, but wasn’t applied to albums except as an obvious effect.
The artist must put there foot down and stamp out pitch control to get the feeling back in the music
larrybuzan You may be surprised to learn the artist may NOT have much if any sy in the production of their music. These recording companies are owned/financed by investment company and they want the return on their investments nd may have a death grip on the record companies and the singers, and we may now be seeing the squeeze put on Cavendish and Lucy now that she is no longer under 18, she is now an adult and can be manipulated...and controlled...... the dirty facts of big business !!!!
Thank you Fil for pointing out the use of pitch correction. I am not familiar with this artist so first time hearing her sing. This is one of my favorite Christmas songs. She has a lovely voice otherwise. Great analysis as always. 🙂🎸🎵
is it "Strange" she sounds the same when live ???? What does thatb tell you ???
This is an easy one. I've learned to "feel" that left over aura or echo, like a submarine sonar tech looking for Russian stealth subs: "Hey! That ain't natural!"
Haha me too!
I tend towards classical, folk and independent music, where pitch correction isn't a thing, but decided to listen to the mainstream chart Top 10 at some point last year and I couldn't understand why it all sounded so robotic!😂
I stumbled upon this channel when trying to find an answer and now I know...
It really stands out a mile to me, but I suppose people must get so used to hearing it they think that's how singers actually sound...?!
Excellent analogy! 😄
Hey Fil, are they trying to remove the human soul from music? I think so. another great vid.
I actually commented on a recent video of her’s that it was pitch corrected as it was very obvious. The comments were mostly, that they either didn’t know what it was or disagreed with me.
Unfortunately people are just used to it.
It's like a slow conditioning to AI losing the soul/humanity.
16:11 You just said something I commented at another video: people will expect you to have perfect pitch when you sing at a campfire...even without using a microphone.
Edit: It is a pity -- although I believe it isi good as it is -- that I cannot give you more than *one* like. Your videos deserve it.
i know what you mean, it's like so many things really, people think for whatever reason, it has to be perfect, they have unrealistic expectations, and it paralyzes us, it prevents us from participating, from living & enjoying life.
@@christophers7753 Has it anything to do with all the broadcast musical competitions which holds up a very particular and narrow standard of 'perfection' to aspire to? I find them tedious and boring.
Lucy Thomas is so good singer.
@ 13:40 That note is not just stuck to the line, it's glued there. Nailed, screwed, stapled, zip-tied...
Her voice is still beautiful! It's all about the TONE.
He was asked to comment,I don't like to hear this about Lucy,but I want to know what's going on!
Smear campaign
johncollins BE CAREFUL what you wish for the truth can be REALLY ugly as we do NOT know what goes on behind the scenes, when money and investors have the control with the money.......
@@SaraSmith-cx3ew
Yes by her own producers not Fil, they need to stop frauding their consumers and let us hear the real Lucy Thomas without digitalised voice enhancements which in Lucy's case actually squash her voice somewhat because her voice is so good in reality it actually sounds even more beautiful without all the gimmicks which Fil made a point of.
I wonder if Cavendish Records used pitch correction on their other artists in the past most notably the world renowned tenor Jonathan Antoine? It would be utter lunacy if they did.
At least Lucy's fans will get to hear her sing at her first live concert in March and again in the fall when she stars in the lead of ROSIE THE MUSICAL in London's West End this fall. Fans will not be disappointed because she has a wonderful voice. . Thanks Fil for being honest in your reviews!
☹️ can't say I'm not disappointed, but not overly surprised. I don't understand why they would want to manipulate her beautiful voice. We've been cheated of more of her natural expression. Thanks for your analysis, letting us know the truth. Perhaps this will encourage the producers to stop using this technology for great singers.
Well done Fil! I'm with you and am just as disgusted over AI generated vocals. Give me the real deal and nothing fake! There is no feeling and soul in anything that is faked especially when it pertains to music.
As someone who is very particular about the gear I perform and record with, your comment about the sound of the SM58 was spot on! Great gig mic, but you’re so right that no one would ever record vocals using a SM58 (even a Beta) in a studio session. All singers should utilize the correct mic for the proper application, even as a prop.
I am crushed but it makes me feel better when you said she is a great singer and pitch correction makes her sound worse than she naturally is. I still love her singing.
I am glad you finally covered one of her videos, I have heard the pitch correction of her songs long before I even started following your channel. I have also been thinking she seems to have a great voice underneath that pitch correction. And heck no, I think most of us enjoyed this video.
Well that’s all very interesting but to focus only on pitch when there are so many other characteristics of the human voice which give each singer their own unique sound, does a great disservice to the artist. Beautiful vocalisation is the sum total of many things (such as timbre, cadence, vibrato, yodel/cry, trills, turns, “growl”, hum etc.) and when so many of these things align in the way that they have in the case of Lucy Thomas, what you have, by your own admission, is a truly great voice. My problem with your reaction is that you are targeting a now widely used technical intervention for the purpose of generating views to your channel but in the process, you are potentially harming the careers of young talented musicians who deserve the chance of success that they have worked so hard to achieve. In Lucy’s case, she has worked with a professional voice coach (Carolyn Hudson) from the age of seven. Is doing what you do a good thing for this industry? I don’t think so.
Finally, your suggestion that Lucy’s voice would sound better if not subjected to pitch correction is tenuous at best. Lucy’s voice sounds brilliant with or without this intervention and there are recent examples of her singing live, including one of her singing the very song you presented, Have Yourself A Merry Little Christmas, at a charity concert in Stevenage on 5th December last year that prove this. That performance sounded pretty damn good to me.
Christopher, thank you for that response!
Christopher, My initial reaction to this video was huge disappointment in Cavandish for this disservice to Lucy, but reading your very well informed and observed comment has mollified me somewhat, in my heart of hearts i loved Lucy's voice and , on reflection pitch correction is such a minor thing compared to the brilliance of Lucy's overall voice quality that i am happy to overlook it and support this wonderful artist. i am off to her Stoller concert in March where i can witness her brilliance in person,
Regards Ian.
@@iancave-nu1ff I am so pleased that I have helped you to work through this and I wish you the best on 5th March. You are going to love it, it will be a privilege for all those who can attend, and I would love to be there but unfortunately it’s not my time to witness Lucy live just now. My time will come!
Hi!
I didn't know Lucy Thomas.
📣 Producers, let us enjoy the emotional journey! Don't pitch correct natural singing voices!
Thanks, Fil 🖤🤘🏽
Yeah lucy is good for sure.
Appreciate you sticking to a very important message in a gracious way.
Being an old person I’m grateful for folks like you & many thousands of talented young musicians I can listen to 24/7 in all genres all over the world.
After all, if I just went by what seems to win awards or what I hear on the radio or blasting out of passing cars or while shopping I’d think people making music without digital correction is pretty much dead.
I’m glad it’s not. 🙏
Hey Fil, I can see it now. They're going to come out with a microphone that already has the pitch correcter in it. Imagine taking it to a Karaoke and amaze your friends.
I don't believe that a real time pitch corrector could ever turn a 'sow's ear into a silk purse'! 😀
It's great - as soon as you hear the pitch correction your smile disappears. 🙂
Thanks Fil! What's odd to me is the pitch corrected sustained notes actually begin to make my ears hurt, but notes allowed to be flat, or sharp in the same range prior to & after the sustained note, sound nice and don't bother my ears.
Pitch correction is fraud. It's that simple. Any singer that relies on pitch correction instead of their own voice needs to find a new career.
I don't agree with this because it isn't always the singers decision to use pitch correction but their record labels, Lucy is a superb singer and her live performances prove it.
This is a most interesting article. You have addressed the issue of moving the single fundamental frequency of a note to correct its pitch. But a note sung by Lucy Thomas will be rich in harmonics, thus producing the timbre of her voice. The same note sung by her will be distinctly different from that sung by Vanessa Gnaegi ( Boogie woogie singer I greatly admire).
Hi Fil,I have been following Lucy’s performance for a while,she has such a beautiful voice with great range and control….BUT,I started following your channel and I began to question myself as to whether she was voice corrected.Much to my disappointment I have learnt that I was correct in my thoughts.
I believe that she is part of a production company and i hope that they hear of your excellent analysis and stop doing what ever it is that they are doing and let her natural talent come through.Thank you,Roly🇬🇧.
I think Lucy has only been very subtly pitch corrected there's no major auto-tuning or stupid voice effects which sound robotic, the most her voice has been through in the studio is basic graphic equalisers and reverb to create echo acoustics, compared to most other contemporary singers around nowadays I think Lucy isn't having her voice edited half as much.
@@adamknight7041 This doesn't look so subtly to me. And I really like Lucy Thomas singing.
@@adamknight7041I think you might have ear plugs on buddy. Or you are just one of those that keep denying and defending. Here it's been pitch corrected 50-70% and I'm no musician. But I can hear and see with his testing. What a shame..... Even worse if Lucy accepts this. I'm no fan of Lucy because I heard it immediately when I tried her out and thought she's another one of those fake ones. But now I know that Lucy has talent but it's a shame what is happening.
@@TroyArcAngel
Lucy isn't the fake but her producers are that is where we disagree, and please stop obsessing over that Amy Winehouse wannabe otherwise known as Angelina Jordan.
@@adamknight7041 You already know why I am obsessed with Angelina Jordan. 👍🏻 I don't have to say it. You know it deep down and won't say it 😅 Wannabe.....lol you're so close minded. Angelina=multiple genres= not Amy Winehouse rip off. Maybe you'll understand that
New singer to me, very nice voice. Thanks for the analysis & exposure to different music Fil😊🌜⭐️🎼🎤🫖
I am now greatly upset, not with Lucy, but with her manager/producer Chris Broom and with Cavendish Records of London with which Lucy has been signed since the age of 14! They are responsible for this stupidity! There is no reason in the universe for them to do this to Lucy's natural, exquisitely beautiful voice! If Broom wanted a pitch correction , he should've "signed on" a pitch correction automaton instead of signing Lucy, who is the real deal! All fans of Lucy should inundate Broom and Cavendish Records with emails, texts, messages, calls, letters, etc., DEMANDING that they stop such ridiculous and egregious practices and leave Lucy's raw, natural, God-given abilities alone!
I completely agree, I wonder if there's a way you can tag him under this comment?
What a fantastic video have a wonderful weekend fil also today is my friends birthday ❤😊
Check out Lucy's recent concert in Manchester,can she sing live?,you bet she can!,she opened with 'Somewhere',more songs to be released in due course!.😊
He is not interested in recanting career destroying videos. I would be very surprised if he answers your request.
@@THSeaNotes
I sincerely doubt he has destroyed her career he may however have destroyed his own credibility, if her career does get destroyed by this then you can say the same for almost all current day singers because they universally use pitch correction in studio recordings which is precisely why I purely judge a singer on how good they are live and Lucy sounds even better onstage then in a studio sound booth.
Hopefully this will all be put to rest when she preforms live at Manchester and in rosie because I don't believe she would want this done to her music I trully believe she is one if the future greats
markbrown Lucy may NOT have any control over how her music is produced, she is bound by Cavendish and THEIR INVESTORS !!!! cold hard facts !!!!
Sadly, because of the "industry" and the need to make money from a "perfect" song, beautiful voices like hers get manipulated into something it isn't. She has a wonderful and pleasing voice without any enhancement or manipulation...Thank you for continuing to educate us...It is always enjoyable for me. My Happy Place...
Id be so, so, so curious to know if pitch correction has been used on the recent duet of Placido Domingo and Dimash on the Virtuosos V4+ 2023 compitition of young classical musci
It would seem the bands and singers would take notice and start not having this happen. Since it is happening and whether or not the singers know, they agree till they do not agree. Thanks, Fil, for this video on difference of pitch correction and auto tune.
I like watching your expressions, that hint of disdain for the altering of a great voice. It is sad, though, that this trend has taken on so much steam. Maybe eventually someone will call "enough, already!".
You had said in the video of "How is This so Good" Adam Lambert singing Cher's "Believe" at the Kennedy Center that you would do an analysis of Adam's voice later. Is it in your plans at some point....?
He's out here somewhere!
Hi Fil
I think you said it “It’s all about the VIEWS” the bottom line is about the money these singers on UA-cam can receive from there views. The only way to tell if someone is a great singer is for that singer to sing live without a microphone. That’s why I have a great respect for singers from the musicals when they can sing without a microphone.
Thanks again for your analysis and the honesty about these modern day so call singers.
Is that why some of the singers have been singing in stairwells without mikes? Makes sense.
@@M0odyBlue
Oh yeah like you’re in the stairwells with them. lol
Thanks Fil, for another great analysis. Here's what I'm afraid of - Someone uses AI to go through a number of Alison Krauss's past performances, and comes up with a probability distribution of how often she's flat or sharp, and by how much, also identifying any trends or patterns connected with when that happens. Then, in place of autotune, they just apply "the Alison Krauss Filter" to the vocals. Nothing is snapped to lines, each application of the filter yields a unique (probably human-sounding) result. The only problem would be that it's not real, and would be hard to detect if done well. I'm not a musician, but it doesn't seem all that complicated given today's technology.
If there are any voice coaches out there could they please react to what is being said as regards to Lucy being involved with voice correction,i have heard a# respond to Lucy's vocals & so far nothing as far as i am aware has been mentioned Re: voice correction!.if it is going on,then why?,there is very little doubt that Lucy has a wonderful voice going by those who have seen her live!
Hi Fil, as always a really spot on analysis. I feel the same about great singers not needing all this pitch correction and AT however the other side of the coin is that for a lot of the younger generation this robotic sound seems to be preferable. I have asked lots of youngsters & family and they all prefer the "modern" sound. Especially the Kpop/Jpop it's just so synthetic but the kids would be confused if it wasn't sounding like it does. Another example even Allie Sherlock ( who you also analysed) has raw talent has also started following the trend and posting tuned videos and she really doesn't need to but it's a sign of the times.
I suppose it's like the kids all going crazy when the Beatles arrived on the scene. New generation = new standards.
PS. I use pitch correction for recording to get a particular sound but don't use it live.
All of the things on Lucy Thomas's site other than perhaps a couple of early videos and one live performance that I know of are produced by Cavendish Records, so it is most likely their decision to do pitch correction, which is typical of a modern record company.
A big reason for pitch correction by record companies is that it's a shortcut to a "good take."
Maybe just maybe why don't you ask Chris Broom of Cavendish IF he used pitch control on Lucy's songs rather than guessing ???
@@wilburfinnigan2142
As you well know I'm one of Lucy's biggest fans but even I can acknowledge she's had pitch correction on her recordings albeit not a huge amount and certainly no stupid robotic sounding Auto-Tune like what artist's such as Cher use.
The criticisms of course should be aimed at the producers not the singers themselves who should be given full creative control but are all too often manicured by the label and the industry.
I suspect too that Jonathan Antoine had some pitch correction in the studio too.
Hi Fil, thank you for another great analysis, Lucy's voice does sound beautiful but emotionless due to the pitch correction. I say, let them sing sharp or flat, or a bit off key. If feelings aren't in the voice, the song is meaningless.
It's a shame because when Lucy sang at The Voice Kids audition when she was only 13 and got chair turns from Danny Jones and Pixie Lott it was Pixie that pointed out Lucy's voice made her feel the emotion in the song and Lucy acknowledged it was her ambition to make people feel it so what was the point of all that if her record producers simply weren't listening and thought they knew better?
She's clearly a world class singing talent but sadly because of the pitch correction for alot of people will just become another pretty face in the crowd and not truly stand out the way she should given her phenomenal voice.
Hi, do you want to analyse "kid laroi - without you (raw acapella)" and "juice wrld - lucid dreams (raw acapella)"? they claim it's raw but we can't know for sure. if it's only pitch corrected, how can we know for sure that it is just by looking at the pitch monitor? the variation might still remain natural, while still on pitch, just not 100% on the line, that way we might not be able to tell, only when it's autotuned.
It’s so hard to describe that unmistakable sound. I also don’t really understand WHY simply transposing a note should change the quality of the sound itself. But it does. I think it must be that digital transposition is still imperfect, and the shifted notes take on weird artifacts of the process, artifacts that weren’t present when you slightly sped up or slowed tape playback speed in the good old days of analogue. Even hearing a single pitch shifted note in isolation, free of the reference of the rest of the performance, and maintaining its original vibrato, sounds weirdly robotic and metallic.
Enjoying your analyses very much. Just found them today. I looked to see if you’ve reviewed Paul Carrack, and can’t find anything. I’d love to see you review him.
I had the audacity to hear some mechanical finagling of her Whiter Shade of Pale cover. You would think I had accused her of drowning puppies as a hobby. Be prepared for much blow back, and thank you for proving to me that I was not likely hallucinating. But at least she's not autotuned....yet
Pitch corrected or not it's still a stunning vocal performance and she puts more emotive expression into it then any other version I've heard including that of Annie Lennox which I think going by the instrumentation it was loosely based on, I actually found Annie's vocals disappointingly cold on that version and I say that as a massive fan of hers.
Lucy Thomas is the real deal.
Finally someone who knows what 440 Hz is and what human voice isn't. I can pull out individual instruments, all tuned to 440 Hz, and they stay in tune long enough to finish song without going out of tune. People can be close, but natural variations adds warmth and a sense of humanity. Not sure if post production is tweaking her voice, she doesn't need much. I have 3 different programs, each use different methods of isolating voice. Without instruments masking voice, can detect partial flat, but rarely.
It´s all about making superb voices into spooky ones !
No, it's about new revenue streams. Watch Fil before you buy a recording.
@@graveseeker Lucy has an incredibly beautiful voice that I love, and the only recordings I have any interest in buying are Lucy's, regardless of what he has to say about them!
There are countless opportunities to hear major artists doing live versions of their songs these days. Besides attending concerts, there are live recordings posted all over youtube and other social media sites and yet------with the choices available it is almost always the pitch corrected versions of songs that are chosen to be paid for by consumers. Why? It's simple. They sound better (to most listeners) and create more emotion (for most listeners). From my own perspective, why would I or they want to listen to an off-key rendition of a song when we can listen to one that is pitch perfect? Look, I am not criticizing the way you personally want to listen to your music, and I don't think you should be criticizing the way anyone else wants to listen to theirs. The appeal of music is such a personal thing and there really is something for everyone, especially now that we have access to music from everywhere in the world. Live, non-pitch corrected music is available in quantities much larger than you or anyone else can ever get around to listening to in their entire lives. My point is that living in the musical past is a totally doable option for anyone who can't deal with the facts of today's music industry and that it seems to be a rather pointless exercise in futility to be pointing out something that is already so commonly known and accepted. As for the music industry as a whole, I agree that much of how it operates is distasteful, even disgusting----but after all, it is all about making money for those involved and especially for the artist sand it is clear that more of it is being made on pitch corrected music than on live music which is ultimately making these singers more successful than they would otherwise be. Why would we want to take that away from them? Like most music obsessed individuals, I am perfectly fine with pitch corrected music even though I grew up with and cherished the music of non-pitch corrected artists like Joan Baez, Judy Collins, Roy Orbison, Jay Black, Scott Walker, Bob Dylan and so many others. Pitch correction is a fact of life in today's world, and we can either live with it or seek our music elsewhere. There is plenty of it to be had.
I agree in part with your sentiments but serious musicians and singers are in the industry to gain respect for their artistic credibility and not for chasing money and fame which is all too often assumed to be the case.
@@adamknight7041 I'm pretty confident that anyone who is in the music industry full time is in it to earn money whether or not they are primarily interested in "gaining respect for their artistic credibility" or to "chase money and fame". After all, it's the way they make their living! There are way too many sad examples of singers who stuck to "gaining respect for their artistic credibility," and ended up sleeping on a friend's couch or in the street. As someone who spent a large chunk of his adult life working around a thriving music scene in a large American city, I have witnessed hundreds of those types of commercial failures which ultimately end in immensely talented singers settling for jobs as insurance salesmen or handymen if depression hasn't set in so deep that they can't work at all. I favor excellent vocal performers being able to share their talent with the largest number of listeners possible even if it takes pitch correction or other audio enhancements in order to make that possible,
I don't do a lot of production, but I watch a lot of Fil's videos, so I could tell this was pitch corrected in the first 10 seconds. The sound is weird, and I feel like there's an analogy to Muzak here, though I haven't quite articulated it.
I sponsored Lucy and others at a Concert at a BBC Studio in Wrexham and what you hear is what you superbly get from Lucy Thomas. This sound was deliberate because of the song she is singing.
I'm trying to imagine the person who's job it is to apply pitch correction. Is the thought process "This singer has a beautiful voice but my job is to make mechanical *&%# of it!"?
The pitch correction took the emotion out of the song and made it sound like an artificial voice. It's really clear that she has a beautiful voice. She doesn't need this stuff. It's so sad.
I wouldn't say it took all the emotion out of it and Lucy's qualities still shine through it all but it did make it sound too glossy if that's the right word.
This young woman should have a wonderful career. She has a lovely voice, and is very a very healthy-looking beauty. I hope someone sane takes over her management and A&R. She has no need of pitch correction!
Yes, her actual need is not to be pitch-corrected.
Chris Broom is doing a brilliant job with her and she's going to be in a Westend musical.
I think a small amount of pitch correction and reverb is fine, I just cannot stand Auto-Tune ever since Cher's hit Believe in 1998.
Thanks Fil!
It would have been fabulous if you did this side by side with Judy Garland's original version from Meet Me In St. Louis to compare them. That version is my all-time favorite carole, and it's a fantastic movie as well!
What I can appreciate about this version, soul sucking pitch corrections aside, is that she recognized it's a sad song, not a happy one as so many others have recorded it.
Such a shame. She has a gorgeous, warm tone. And this is a song that needs the emotion. Frank Sinatra’s version does it for me. It’s so true about voices all sounding the same. I had my back to a screen playing a video in a Korean pub and could have sworn it was Gwen Stefani. It wasn’t and it was very heavily pitch corrected. I am exposing my grands to older music so that they can hear a real human voice singing. There is nothing that moves me so much as live vocals that are just natural voices, expressing the emotion of the song.
Sign me up for that club!!
She might be pitch corrected here but I'd like to know who you think Lucy Thomas sounds like? Personally I cannot think of anyone in particular, influence yes; Barbara Streisand, Elaine Page etc...but not copy or sounding exactly the same!
I sense your frustration with this pitch correction, Fil, & I agree with you 100%. What a shame that some stupid producer is probably insisting on "fixing" her vocals, when no changes are needed.
A performance that I’d love to have you analyze is the live performance that Eva Cassidy made of “Time AfterTime.” at Blues Alley, January 1996.
What kind of a message does that send to kids when you start pitch correcting such incredibly young singers? Being natural isn't "good enough". You have to be "perfect". Nothing else is acceptable. Yeah, I don't like that, we should think about the message that these kids are getting.
You should check out Nikka Costa. Was championed by Prince. Has an incredible.voice. Released a truly amazing album "Everybody Got Their Something" and the follow up "Cantneverdonuthin'". But she never got the recognition and success she clearly deserved!
I’d love to do a raw song vs pitch corrected version of a song video example, but I don’t have the home recording technology to pitch correct so I guess I just have to just singing without it 😅
I'm starting to be able to hear it now, and I can't turn it off! I've been looking 😮at my own voice on the pitch monitor recently, and one thing I've noticed is, every consonant and every vowel changes the pitch a little bit, even if what your vocal cords are doing doesn't change - so if that doesn't happen, it's going to sound fake
Nature reminds but does not exactly repeat. The subtle imperfections are what make a face or a voice unique and unforgettable; the subtle changes in expression on a face or in a voice are what make that moment in time uniquely memorable.
Why didn't you hear it from the beginning? What changed?
@SaraSmith-cx3ew maybe I didn't know how to identify what I heard. I don't have perfect pitch!
@@racheloldridge4986 No one needs anyone to identify for them what they hear is what I am saying. And I would also say, I would never listen to anyone who trashes something so he can collect super like donations in his comment section. That is a clear sign that you are dealing with an opportunist who advances himself at the expense of others. Don't let the nice, mild mannered demeanor fool you either, these types are masters of using that time tested technique to mask their true agenda.
Listen to Lucy's final song at her first major concert in Manchester,'Hallelujah', you said you could tell she had a great voice,this rendition will confirm it!😊
Excellent analysis…your channel is so informative…
Question - Have you ever been contacted by or heard of any artists who may have previously used these "techniques", then later made the conscious choice to stop using them? (obviously no names here)
Also, (and if you have done so previously my apologies) Have you ever looked at June Tabor? A fave of mine. Lots of great stuff but especially from the album - Airs and Graces.
Just been watching your brilliant 'crooner' videos- any chance you could take another look at Matt Monro, definitely the greatest UK singer in that genre?
Hey Fil, I’m not sure where to go to ask for vocal analysis on videos, so I’m posting it here. When you’re able, can you do an analysis of Elvis singing live in Las Vegas “Bridge Over Troubled Waters”? I love that performance so much and am curious to see what you’ll say about it. Cheers! Hope you’re having a wonderful weekend! ❤ ~ Nellas
Hello Paul, thank you for your reply, I can see I may have misjudged you on this Pitch Correction situation, I have just listen to Lucy at the Calom Charity event which was filmed it is on UA-cam, she was 15 years of age of the time and was singing live and her voice was perfect. I am confused normally Lucy's voice is so crystal clear when she sings apart from this Christmas song which I have always had trouble to clearly make out the words. Does Lucy know she is being pitched corrected or is the song pitched corrected by the studio after she has recorded the song and can Lucy stop this pitched correction if it makes her voice sound worst. Take care Barbara.
Guess you’ll have to ask Chris Broom.
Fil, Do you think singers are changing their singing style in order to take advantage of pitch correction?
No unlikely!
Suggestion for Fil. You mention “440 hertz” a lot in your videos. I know what you mean, but many don’t, and it’s potentially quite misleading for those people when you casually describe random notes as being “tuned to 440 hertz”. The only note of which this is literally true is A4. When you are talking about a note that is clearly a C or a G# or whatever, and still say that it has been “tuned to 440 hz”, it is easy to imagine some people are taking that literally and getting quite confused.
Perhaps it would be clearer if you replaced the phrase “440 hz”, which you habitually use as casual shorthand to describe the international tuning standard used by pitch correction software, with the more accurate “A440 hz”, and perhaps explicitly explained what that means.
Sorry to see this being done to this young lady. Question: would you say that Haley Reinhart falls into this category of being pitch corrected ?
I knew nothing about this pitch correction (just call me Jon Snore) but Lucy is still Muh Queen! So thanks Fil for er Filling me in! I did kind of wonder how Lucy (and Martha too) could be so perfect most of the time.
I have some suggestions for singers from my neck of the woods to be investigated for anything "some might call unnatural" if you could get around to them some time. First Eltasya Natasha from Indonesia. She does a cover of Adele's 'Easy On Me' on a rooftop and it's obviously pre-recorded and she is miming. The thing about the performance is her insane runs, so fast, dynamic and precise. I would be very interested to see what your analysis might reveal! Eltasya also does an indoors cover of Katy Perry's 'The One That Got Away' as a ballad where she is clearly singing live. You can see her vibrato and hear her breath and it's all in sync. But again the performance is perfect so what, if anything, is going on?
And two more singers, Aina Abdul from Malaysia singing 'Here's Your Perfect' and I wouldn't be surprised if pitch correction is being used, and Agseisa from Indonesia singing 'When I Look At You' which is supposed to be a fully live performance but again she is perfect.
Then Megan McInerney (Meg Mac) from Australia (yay team!) singing her own song 'Is It Worth Being Sad' the live studio version (great looking video!) where I don't think she has been pitch corrected, but what would I know, and again the performance is perfect. She also did a live recording of 'Let It Happen' in a studio with her sister Hannah and their singing in unison is unbelievably tight.
I did include the youtube links to these songs but it caused my post to be hidden so I've deleted them.
Good idea Fil! I want to join that club 😎🤘
I enjoyed this video and your thoughts. Thank you.
Thank You Fil! I asked you earlier about Tori Holub and while I can’t hear pitch correction on her I honestly can’t prove it. It’s so damn subtle at times. If she’s not using it but is using Pro Tools then maybe I’ll be amazed. Sigh. I don’t know what to believe any more. Oh and that pitch corrected hum, I thought she was starting The Way We Were! Then it wasn’t. What makes me cautious is so many comments saying TH has “perfect pitch.”
Maybe you need to spin off a channel just analyzing vocals? I think it would get frustrating. You’d have to send up fireworks when you get an honest one. I almost feel like this is some out of control video game. Like, maybe Guitar Hero is now Voice Hero.
Just give me Karen and songs of the earlier years, though haven’t some been brought out and altered. Nothing will be real soon. What a nightmare has been created. Rock!
Joe
As long as the market accepts it, it will be used. Reminds me of the medical scene of a natal delivery (If I recall) in Monty Python's Meaning Of Life. The doctors have this tool, (that goes "bing") and they WILL use it whether needed or not and the patient is NOT qualified to have a concern or an opinion. If I were an artist, it would be in my contract to NEVER do this to my performances.
Have you ever reviewed Loren Allred, the original singer of Never Enough, on your channel?
She just was on AGT Fantasy League, and also BGT in 2022.
Not yet!
Chris Broom please comment!
What could he possibly say, denial would be futile, but how could he justify doing that artificial enhancement crap to a singer as good as Lucy Thomas is?
@@pertwee9376that would be for him to qualify!. if he is behind it then Lucy would know,but may not be in a position to do anything about it!, so sad to think this is going on especially after the denials that Lucy isn't autotuned!
@@johncollins392 The guy here Fil is a professional and does have a point. Lucy is replacing all my legend favourites from the 80’s who didn’t have computers, so I want it to be Lucy’s true voice.
AutoTune is different to pitch correction. AutoTune is ‘was’ used to correct live singing. Some big stars got caught out using it when it went wrong as it was live. Pitch Correction is another tool used after the vocals have been recorded. The producer mixing adjusts the vocals later. Even live but recorded concerts can later be pitch corrected and enhanced the same.
I said Lucy didn’t use AutoTune because she doesn’t, her live singing is real. Pitch Correction is a tool many producers use on recordings and videos. But there are many buttons and sliders in the recording mixing studio, and I imagine Lucy 13 and her mum had no idea what they do. Lucy sings and does as instructed and her producer puts it together. Maybe this correction tool was acceptable then and they have continued this technique, but I imagine young Lucy with schooling and Rosie still didn’t know, and goes to the studio as she did aged 13. We all trusted Chris Broom as I suppose Lucy does. Now the same technology can be used to identify it, and many are being uncovered. What’s done is done, and I hope lessons learned. I still support Lucy!
@@ChrisScott0Autotune is a plug in device used by most producers/ engineers for pitch correction , vibrato , etc . other brands are available .pitch correction software is easily obtained for anyone to purchase as its just a app . past artists may not have had computers but they did have clever producers/ engineers who with clever use of tape machines used their wizardry to alter or improve the vocals of many artists .pitch correction goes as far back as the 40s , in the 60s engineering wizardry was used extensively to improve a vocal performance . one notable example being john lennon .
@@ChrisScott0
I sometimes wonder if the reason Jonathan Antoine left Cavendish Records after just one album is because he found out they'd pitch corrected him? as I happen to know it is one of Jonathan's pet hates.
Thanks! 💙💙💙💙💙🦩
Okay, so maybe do a video on some artists and Bands that do not use pitch correction. So, are these artists able to use pitch correction live on stage when you go see them?
The audience will hear the live vocals , but when uploaded to UA-cam it's then often pitch corrected .