Soviet Perspective: Invasion of Poland 1939
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- Опубліковано 21 тра 2024
- In this video we look at the Soviet Perspective of the Soviet Invasion of Poland what they considered/portrayed as a liberation. For this we look at official German translation of the official History of the Great Patriotic War of the Soviet Union (6 Volumes).
Cover by vonKickass (colorization, modification, etc.):
Original Image: Bundesarchiv, Bild 101I-121-0012-30 / CC-BY-SA 3.0, creativecommons.org/licenses/...
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» SOURCES «
Geschichte des Großen Vaterländischen Krieges der Sowjetunion. Band 1: Die Vorbereitung und Entfesselung des zweiten Weltkrieges durch die imperialistischen Mächte. Bd. 1. Deutscher Militärverlag: Berlin, German Democratic Republic, 1962.
Lokatis, Siegfried: Die Zensur historischer Literatur in der DDR unter Ulbricht. In: Historische Zeitschrift. Beihefte , 1998, New Series, Vol. 27, Die DDR-Geschichtswissenschaft als Forschungsproblem (1998), p. 281-293.
Hill, Alexander: The Red Army and the Second World War. Cambridge University Press: Cambridge, United Kingdom, 2017.
Edele, Mark: Soviet liberations and occupations, 1939-1949. In: Ferris, John Robert (ed.); Mawdsley, Evan (ed.): The Cambridge History of the Second World War, Volume II: Politics and Ideology. Cambridge University Press: Cambridge, UK, 2015
Ellis, Johen: World War II - A Statistical Survey - The Essential Facts & Figures for All the Combatants, Edition: 1995 reprinted with corrections.
de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geschic...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Front_(...)
#SovietInvasionOfPoland,#Poland1939,#SovietPerspective
00:00 Teaser - Cold War Rhetoric
00:17 Introduction
00:55 Structure
01:06 Source Discussion
03:12 "Western" Perspective of the Soviet Invasion of Poland
09:44 Soviet Perspective - Framing the Invasion
10:44 Soviet Perspective on the Soviet Invasion of Poland
18:50 Molotov's Statement
19:42 Ending
Popular joke in Poland:
Q. You're in command of a Polish infantry platoon trapped on a bridge with German panzers on one side of the river, and Russian artillery on the other. Who do you shoot first?
A. The Germans of course. Business before pleasure.
Businesses before pleasure - are you sure ?
in the country Germans / Prussians referred to as Polnische Wirtschaft?
😂
Better translation should be "duties before a pleasure" or "obligations before a pleasure"
Чем Польша отличается от атома? Атом можно разделить один раз, а Польшу - три-пять раз.
Populat joke in Russia. What is the difference between Poland and Atom? Atom can be splited just once. Poland mininum 5
@Icek Szechter It is very much. I have herd that in 80's
"The expansion of the soviet family of nations and the USSR's measures to secure its borders" Gotta love this guys.
Japan taking notes for the "asian sphere of prosperity"
Act of terror against humanity and freedom of speach, later that night we go into Serbia or Iraq, whatever
It was basically Soviet equivalent of 'spreading democracy' (which they also used as justification btw).
@@CruelDwarf well if you compare Serbia or Iraq invasion to ussr invasion. Then you should ask where is the invasion?
Remember though they were liberators and definitely aren’t evil
I absolutely love how he sounds like speaking in reversed mode when he tries do pronounce polish words
He tried hard evidently, nailed some, got pretty close with some others, wasnt nearly close with yet another some. As can be expected by anybody whose tongue isnt twisted and mullered by speaking the language from the birth ;)
*Well done indeed. Thank you for creating these videos!!!*
I know you concentrate on WW2, however you have made some videos on WW1, so can you make a video about Brusilov offensive. I find this topic very interesting. The Russians used some brand new tactics and this offensive had a potential to even turn the tide on the Eastern Front. Although it was the greatest battle of the First World War, it is not well known. Your videos are great. Keep doing your work
Thanks, can yes, will, very unlikely. Non-WW2 content takes longer, gets less views, I have far less books, I can contribute far less as well, since I know less, etc.
@@MilitaryHistoryVisualized Understandable, but as Robert Citino notes, if you want to be a master of WW2, you must study WW1, because the two wars are inextricably linked. You definitely will benefit from putting some more time into the subject and making some videos, even if they mostly are in the form of interviews or podcasts on MHNV, will help more viewers understand the importance of the Great War on the Second Great War.
By way of example, Brusilov's Offensive is held by many to be the protoform of Deep Operations for the Soviet Red Army. He was very influential on the Red Army, particularly in his contributions to its critical reforms following the Polish Disaster of 1920-21. Study Brusilov, you know more about the Red Army, you know more about the Red Army in the Great Patriotic War.
@@genericpersonx333 Brusilov offensive was Russian victory. Gustaf Mannerheim commanded a cavalry division under Brusilov. There were still some Red supporting Russian troops in Helsinki, but under the Treaty of Brest-Litovsk, signed between the Soviet Russia and the Central Powers, they did not take part in the battle against local Reds. Russia lost 34% of its population, 54% of its industrial land, 89% of its coalfields. After defeating the Trotsky faction, Stalin reversed his opinions about economic policy and implemented the first five-year plan. Brusilov was given an honourable state funeral in 1926. By 1930, ex-Tsarists made up only about 10 percent of the officer corps.
@@genericpersonx333 eh, they're connected superfically by the virtue of dealing with the same powers, you have /some/ of the same actors, and have WW1 Vets in the war. However, they're two different wars fought in many cases by completely different regimes for completely different reasons. WW1 for many people who don't know anything about it is largely blamed on the Germans and you could make a fair argument but largely WW1 has no Singular power at fault for it. WW1 is also far-less divivise for many people I.E no clear /bad-guys/.
This is also a MIlitary-History channel which makes it even more dubious because while WW1 definitely influenced and undeniably influenced Strategies of WW2 but in many ways the Battlefield is so radically different and the weapons employed even more so that referring saying the two are intrisically related in some ways is almost like saying you need to know about Agincourt to know about the Napolenic Wars. It's /that/ radically different. Why the Germans in WW1 didn't even fully appreciate Tanks until way late into 1917; hell they didn't appreciate AT Guns despite employing the famous 88 as an Anti-Tank gun! They thought that Infantry with Smk would be enough to deal with them. This is from Achtung Panzer! On exactly this:
"They should have entrusted the main responsibility for dealing with tanks to direct fire batteries. Instead the batteries in question were gradually disbanded, since the Germans believed that they had a complete anti-tank defence with infantry firing SmK rounds and special cartridge loadings, and the artillery, especially the heavy calibres, shooting from the long range" (Guderian pp.70)
So, like yeah, it's important to know Key-Details, but from a Military-History perspective they're not as intrisically linked as many are led to believe. The Interwar is far more relevant than anything from WW1.
@@genericpersonx333 First off, I don't want to "be a master off WW2" whatever that means. I am rather happy when in a few years I am a decent expert on "just" the German Army in WW2, which is particularly difficult since we lack a lot of research on many fundamental aspects. Setting a proper Schwerpunkt is key here.
On top of that, I don't read nor speak Russian, which would be far more valuable than any information on that offensive.
And as someone pointed out the Interwar period is far more important.
"Congratutalions, Poles, you are being rescued from the Nazis. Please do not resist :)"
Mostly Ukrainians and Belarusians. And yes it really was rescue
Curzon line
@@kmv-2 Rescue from what? Majority of population on these areas overall was Polish, except of Volhynia where lived only 17% Poles and 68% Ukrainians. But that was according to the Polish cenzus from 1931.
Even assuming it could be manipulated, soviets managed to drive over 1,2 million Poles to the camps (where most of them died) and slave labor in just a one year and a half until Germans betrayed them in 1941. Rest was either killed or expelled from Ukraine and in Belarus some minority survived until this day.
@@05KAR Skidel uprising and many others
@@kmv-2 Yes, the communist agents in few cases organized sabotage actions, revolts, robbery and massacres of local Polish population.
So, what's your point?
Anormus respect for hard fight with polish launguage :D
Nice video, but it doesn't shed any light on "soviet perspective". You just describe army movements and some pre-intervention problems from a hardcore propaganda-focused book from the coldest times of the Cold War. The book is under massive influence of post-WWII world order, it pushes narratives valid for mid-60s (and not for the time of invasion) on a broad public.
To understand the "soviet perspective" of the invasion of Poland the following questions/points should be examined (and not with the help of this book):
- Why did Molotov call Poland the "monstrosity of the Versailles Treaty"?
- What was the perception of Poland in the USSR in the 30-s?
- Why did Soviets (and modern Russians) use term "liberated"?
All those things can be learned only by studying Polish and Russian/Soviet post WWI history (and in some situations even back to late 18th century)
The simplest question I was expecting to be asked and answered in this video (and unfortunately it was not) - Why did Soviets invaded Poland only 17 days after the German invasion?
In a whole, the topic of "soviet perspective" can be simplified and put in a short YT video. But it definitely should not be based on such books. What you did here is more like review of a book (or better to say - one chapter of a book) and comparing information in it with information in Hill's book.
I agree and if anyone is interested the article Did the Soviet Union invade Poland in September 1939? No! I couldn't post the link, but this should help at least a little.
"Nice video, but it doesn't shed any light on "soviet perspective"."
Well, I think it's the Soviet perspective in the sense of being the *official* Soviet perspective (which doesn't necessarily comport with how the Soviet leaders actually thought).
@@seneca983 It is quite misleading. I watch the video to see the perspective of the leaders not the official textbook.
@@giadinhhang5988 I can see myself watching videos for either of those.
What is current narrative in Russia today? What do they teach in history class in school? That USSR invaded Poland in 1929? Or that the USSR liberated western Belarus and Ukraine? Or perhaps something else?
the thumbnail-photo is very impressive and amazing. Is somewhere a source with more photos of this kind?
Aaah..
German-Soviet military parade in Brest-Litovsk ;-)
Great work!
An episode about Edward Śmigły-Rydz would be great.
It feels like I'm again at history lesson in USSR. You got it pretty close
Good old times! Now everyone is unhappy in capitalist russia!
I.e. Soviet Propaganda
@@666bambucia more like western Propaganda in all western states. Soviets always tell the truth!
@@sovietheart3883 Good troll.
I remember how after WWII in history lessons I legitimately thought of it as saving eastern Poland from Nazi Germany occupation.
oh snap I'm gonna have to check this out at work. Thank you
Great, solid work, thank you!
Is there a Polish translation of the official history. It would be interesting to see how that was altered if it exists.
What do you want to know my man
I'll say right off the bat, it's pretty close to the video. I had no idea how "free-to-go" propaganda was a thing, but i'm not suprised. We were being taught that as it was 17 days into war already, all forces were defending against germany, so eastern Poland was basically free real estate for Soviets.
Also, i've read or heard one time, Soviets attacked only on 17, not earlier, because they didn't believe that Germans would take Warsaw, and would move in only after they've captured the capital. After Battle of the Vistula River they were thinking that Germans would fare as they did, but after seeing the quick successes of the Wermacht they've decided to go in, as they knew if they waited any longer, there would be less to grab.
@@Viruseek1337 As far as I know, Soviet Union was holding back because it feared that UK and France would attack Germany. If Soviet Union attacked Poland, it would mean a war between them and the UK and France. They attacked this far in because France and England didn't do anything significant in the conflict.
@@averagenow4k245 Seems logical. I don't think stalin would be afraid of western allies declaring war on USSR tho.
@@Viruseek1337 I'll say right off the bat that if you were unagle to notice that the book/video is claiming that the Polish government evacuated september 17 when in reality the evacuation was two days later (as the result of the invasion) then you should stop pretending that you are qualified to present Polish point of view...
@John Shepherd I would advice you to find on YT video with tittle "Who Started World War II? by Viktor Suvorov".
Plenty of stuff that they normaly do not teach in history books and the guy that is doing the lecture is ex-KGB spy that defected to the west and he is explaining the topic to some US military students.
Only thing that is questionable there is his opinion about Danzig, because from one hand it was Polish city for centuries before Germans came and organized massacre of local population but in 1939 majority of its citizens were Germans and like 90% of them voted for the guy with small mustache.
Another great video brotha
Fascinating, thanks!
2:00 - XXII isn`t "twelve", it`s "twenty second"
Translating the non exsistent second Edition, was one of the best Aplication of "Überholen ohne Einzuholen" (Surpass without Catch Up) in the History of the GDR.
Thank you for video sir
I think I see what you did there! Nice video, as always!
2:00
12th communist party? The text shows 22nd.
X(10) X(10) I(1) I(1) =22
ooops... Roman numerals are so bourgeois, I guess my inner peasant guided me there ;)
@@MilitaryHistoryVisualized yes ;)
Polish perspective:
" NOŻ KURWA MAAAAĆ!!!
You are being liberated, please do not resist.
Very interesting perspective - thank you!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Nice video as always. Can you also do a video about Romania? We were considered agressors but nobody tells why we were forced to take the decisions that we did. Thanks
Romania was being butchered by Germany's proxies (Hungary) and the Soviets until it finally picked one of those two camps just to make it stop. Later it switched sides when the tide turned the other way hard.
Definetly takeover of Bessarabia is overlooked, just like all of the soviet invasions, massacres etc. but this one especially.
@@05KAR Try not to overlook the takeover of Bessarabia by Romania during Russian Civil War as well.
@@Edelgeist You mean that land which Moscow conquered in 1812 from Turkish controlled Romania?
The collapse of Russia, Germany and Austria - Hungary after WWI gave freedom to a dozen of nations or like in this case, allowed their reunification.
@@05KAR Romania formed only in 1859. You can't conquer something which doesn't even exist, do you?
I'd like to see a video about the Polish People's Army (Ludowe Wojsko Polskie / Polnische Volksarmee). It seems like there is VERY little coverage of this Military Force on UA-cam despite it's actions in the Battle of Berlin, etc.
Great job.
Maybe you should make another video talking about the time in between 1919 and 1939. A starting point would be to explain the "Curzon Line".
As always, I am amazed by the unbiased thoroughness of your work, and your contribution to this history which is so plagued by propaganda and hatred that is difficult to glean the truth. Or at least something closer to the truth.
Step by step - peace and reconciliation are only possible through truth ...
The soviets always write the truth , americans and all capitalists just diffamate them.
@@sovietheart3883 Nice bait
How this can be unbiased if he is using Soviet sources?
Would u use only bank robers opinions to write an article about that bank robery?
For example in this book they claim that the Polish government left Poland 17 september 1939 and that was one of the suposed reasons for "not an invasion", Polish government evacuated 19 september 1939... two days after Soviet attack on Poland.
@@sovietheart3883 does that seem wrong to you?
"We're the good guys we swear"
WE ARE AGAINST THE EVIL REGIEME AND NOT THE PEOPLE I SWEAR
1962, Soviet Union: "History clearly shows, that the (un-intelligible)-Ribbentrop pack was absolutely necessary to buy time against the fascist hordes."
As a Finn, kinda curious what that history claims about Winter War etc. The usual "warmongering Finns fired artillery at Soviet troops near Mainila", I'd imagine. Probably fascist lapdogs make an appearance. :)
"kinda curious what that history claims about Winter War etc"
Modern Russian historians claim just facts here, based on Finnish sources. What exactly you want to know?
@@AlexanderSeven Because the sources of the USSR are "not democratic"🤣
Whether Finland would have helped Nazi Germany if the Soviets had not gone to war with Finland is up to speculation. But with in the real timeline of history we see that Finland did indeed help Nazi Germany siege Leningrad which led to the starvation of over a million people, occupy Karelia, and took some extra landgrabs along the way. So in the end the Finnish government validated Soviet concerns, regardless of whether it was believed to happen or not in 1940.
@@dannya1854 Self-fulfilling prophecy
@@AlexanderSeven What about the historians like Sergei Verigin and Yuri Kilin who made the nonsensical claim that some of the thousands of the dead in the Stalinist mass graves at Sandarmoh were not executed by the Soviet authorities, but by the Finnish Army during the Second World War?
From Finnish perspective, in the past years, the Russian government has seemed to have taken on a new policy of whitewashing and downplaying Stalinist crimes in favor of making up claims of crimes committed on Russian soil by foreign countries.
"Cherman" your accent adds to your videos, its so perfect.
There appears to be many similarities between the soviet invasion of Poland in 1939 and the Russian invasion of Ukraine in 2022, in regards to the state of readiness of the Soviet and Russian armies.
Honest question: What - if any - were the takeaways that European military powers learned from the conflicts leading up to WW1, i.e. The First and Second Balkan Wars as well as the Italo-Turkish War?
Dishonest answer: they learnt that war was a hoot, heaps of medals and babes to win and they couldn't wait to go again
It's doubtful they took anything away other than that the Ottomans were still near collapse despite the last century of effort to keep them stable, if controllable. None of the Great Powers viewed the Serbs, Bulgarians, Greeks, Romanians, or Ottomans as powers on their level, so it was more of a sideshow. EDIT: This may, however, have contributed to the notion that the Gallipoli landings had a good chance of knocking the Ottomans out in one strike. I'd say that's the biggest takeaway.
Never mind early 20th Century wars; even the American Civil War might have told you that Napoleonic elan could now be defeated by raw firepower and yet how did the French try to beat the Germans in 1914?
In a Norwegian "Book for Soldiers", printed in 1912, they predict that the machine-gun will be important in future wars. And that the offence is stronger than the defence. The "modern" conflict they mention the most, is the Russo-Japanese War.
You saw some, but in some ways it was too short a gap to really tell and a lot of the examples were just exclamation points on issues that were already being shown. But offhand the practical use of airpower in both wars really impressed a number of people, as did the importance of artillery and careful planning.
For the Italians it accentuated the need to seek Great Power support for their claims- and made them more vulnerable to pressure from Britain and France due to how Germany couldn't practically help from Libya- and the Bulgarians certainly learned why it was a bad idea to seek territorial revision without a powerful patron.
Thank you. 👏
Fine analysis
According to the USSR the Soviet invasion of Poland was not an invasion.
According to Russia, the Russian invasion of Ukraine is not an invasion either.
Interesting video. It’s nice to see something from perspective other than Germany on this topic. That said, it’s odd that I’ve still never anything on seen the invasion of Poland from...
...the Polish perspective.
Let me give you an overall summary on polish perspective repeated in official education and most of documentaries:
We could have won if...
-Brittain and France fulfilled their obligations and actually attacked Germany
-Soviets didn't attack
-Government didn't escape abroad
It's all based on many "ifs" and contains a ton of semi-hero martyrism with a huge emphasis on Battle of Bzura, Marna/Wizna defences and other heroic episodes. While good meritoric works state that Poland had no chances whatsoever, many publications still claim some dreams on "whatcouldhappenif".
Historical conclusion is more or less as follows: Poland was actually postponing the mobilization as suggested by the UK in order to „not provoke the Germans”. But anyhow the Germany attacked us from 3 directions and they were the second biggest economy in the world. Very advanced, with huge capabilities, lots of high schools etc. Poland at that time was a poor rular country, and the fact we had 1 milion soldiers couldn’t save us (Germans attacked with 3 milions but much better organized, equipped and commanded). Since the early 30’s we were spending 30% of GDP on army so huge part of our resources but it wasn’t enough. At that time none single EU state could have successfully resisted the Germans. France wasn’t ready for that hit also.
@@bart413 Poland got 3 millions of soldiers not 1 million but most of them were not mobilized because our allies was claiming that this gonna provoke Germany(and maybe i am wrong but i think that French were so paranoid about it not the UK).
Few days after the war started French was sending to Poland fake raports with claim that French forces attacked and in them there were even providing info how big German forces they tied up with a fight.
Poland got nice fortifications on its west border but because UK and France provided Germans with Czechoslovakia all that fortifications were useless because Germans were able and did attack from the south and all that positions would be very easy to encircle and destroy from behind.
"second biggest economy in the world" in 1938-1939 they were far from it, during september 1939 the best German tanks were produced by Czechoslovakian Skoda and Germans got them and super strong mountain fortifications on the Czechoslovakian-German border for free from France and UK in Monachium.
During Battle of the Bzura commanding German General was claiming that they were low on suplies...
"Very advanced, with huge capabilities, " yea that is why Germans took 3 millions of horses with them when they attacked Soviet Union->because they were so super advanced as you can see in every National Geographic document about them. heh
"lots of high schools etc." yea, that is why Poland was able to break enigma code in 1931 when France and UK was considering it imposible until Poland in the sumer of 1939 showed them Enigma replica and Polish machine that was used on daily basis to decode German comunication...
"France wasn’t ready for that hit also." Poland got 3 millions trained and able to fight soldiers and France got 5 millions of people with proper training, equipment for them and in proper age. Poland, France and UK got more tanks, planes and soldiers than Germany in 1939 on top of that half of the German tanks at that time was Pz. I with 8-13mm of armor and low caliber mg as a primary wepond...
Poland was simply sacrificed by western allies in hope that sooner or later German-Soviet mariage gonna end up with ugly divorce(and they were not wrong).
@@Bialy_1 Your first point is actually same as I wrote. Poland was sacrificed, noone is disputing that fact. Using horses as a mean of transportation doesn’t mean Germans weren’t technically advanced as a nation. In the end they lost because of lack of fuel. They were also buying tanks from Soviet Union - as they were trying to hide the militarizarion done against the Treaty of Versailles. The fact that we broke the enigma code has nothing to do with the fact that they were superior in science and engineering. Also France fell 8 months later despite knowing the attack will come. So they weren’t so badass apparently.. And you for sure know it was an arms race: new models, calibers and armors were developed continuously to counter the new vehicles introduced by the opponent.
@@Bialy_1 Actually French reports weren't faked. France actually attacked Saarland in 1939 but they withdrawn their forces on 16th September. While in Poland, France is considered as cowards or traitors, they actually fulfilled their promise of attack on Germany
Interesting. But it a large subject probably one would need a series on this to fully explain the details of the events
I noticed the first thing they did was accuse the fascists of being "lap dogs relying on US / UK financing, but the USSR took so many tanks & air planes and supplies from the Americans & British under the Lend Lease program. Also they based many of their factories on the American factory model in Detroit shown to them by American engineers. That really is the pot calling the kettle black.
would you look at that, US is using lend-lease to arm nazis again, and you sure look totally fine with that
@@BigSmartArmed Again? My comment was about something that happened 70 years ago. And it has no indication of what I'm fine with today. So please don't pull from this to that.
Don’t forget how the Soviets were fed by US/commonwealth food, their explosives made by US/commonwealth resources, and their aircraft fueled by imperialist oil lmao
amazing work
Thanks a lot!
Bernhard is so great that he doesn’t visit countries, he invades them! One man army activate!!!
It always puts smile on my face when Germans are struggling to pronounce names of Polish cities. Buy good video anyway.
thank you, who outside of Poland can actually pronounce them?
@@MilitaryHistoryVisualized It's from a Polish war comedy movie :)
ua-cam.com/video/UMK-hwVLxUQ/v-deo.html
@@MilitaryHistoryVisualized Probably czechs and slovaks
@@MilitaryHistoryVisualized When you take into consideration "Germania Slavica" and that even capital of Germany have its East Slavic(Polabian) etymology it is kinda strange that Germans strugling so much with Polish city names. :P
@@MilitaryHistoryVisualized I know at least half a dozen Germans who can... granted they're all from former DDR, as I kinda doubt anyone from, say, Bayern could.
"It was not an Invasion". It was a Military Special Operation!
I second those who have noted the video could be better titled as "Soviet Historiography's perspective" so as to make it clear it is not dealing with the immediate perspective of the Soviet government immediately before and during the invasion. The current title can be read as proposing an overview of the strategic and political reasoning leading to the diplomatic and military actions involved in the process, which is clearly not the subject of the video.
good point, yet, this assumes that most people know what "Historiography" is. And the video explains it rather clearly from the get go what it is about. The other issue is that the title is already very long and sadly shorter titles are generally better. See also: ua-cam.com/video/ssURn2sxJJY/v-deo.html
‘90 tanks and 4 armored cars were lost.’ That’s some Boy Scout Troop!
Wow, yes. Russia had similar problems during the Winter War, except with adult soldiers.
7:34 19*
Nice showing of how propaganda works
@@TheSunchaster Unless proven that intentional, it's merely example of how misinformation is created rather than any propaganda. If not inteltional, it's not propaganda by definition.
@@ReichLife Until not taken in account technical malfunctions during noted "250 km" marches this is propaganda.
@@TheSunchaster Whatever comfortable delusions you want to believe. OP clearly misheard as MHV nineteen is not that clear but still hearable. Followed by fact that Battle of Grodno during which Soviets sustainted casualties after trying to march into city is historical fact.
Were you tired (or something like that) when recording because you stuttered a bit this time
+ Military History Visualized
Du meintest mal in einem Video, dass die Wehrmacht deiner Meinung nach immer noch zu einem nur sehr geringen Ausmaß erforscht ist, wie kommt das, nach all der Zeit?
wenig Kapazitäten, "begrenztes" Interesse, etc. sehr komplex.
Aber ein kurzer Blick auf de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Das_Deutsche_Reich_und_der_Zweite_Weltkrieg und en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Army_in_World_War_II zeigt mal den Unterschied in der Menge:
13 vs. 78 Bücher und wenn man dann schaut wielange es für die jeweiligen gedauert hat.
I don't remember the reaction in France and the UK to the Soviet invasion of Poland.
Logically - if they had declared war against Germany for invading Poland - they should have declared war on the Soviet Union when it invaded Poland - but of course - that wasn't going to happen.
.
A secret protocol in the Franco-British guarantees toward Poland said that it was only meant to be against Germany and Germany alone. In the case of attack by anyone but Germany, the parties would consult together what to do.
@@HeliosLegion I guess that consultation led to them doing nothing ...
.
@@BobSmith-dk8nw Ah yes so easy to judge from hindsight without taking into consideration the massively difficult strategic parameters that this presented.
It's so boring now.
@lati long No - it would not have "Strengthened Germany". Since the Soviet Union was already supplying Germany and acting like an Ally, German strength would have stayed the same and they would have eventually attacked the Soviet Union probably right when they did - because that was what Hitler wanted to do.
The Germans knocked the French out of the war, took Belgium, The Netherlands, Denmark, Luxembourg and Norway - then they conducted the Battle of Britain and acted like they were going to invade with Operation Sea Lion but that was all just an effort to see if they could get the British to come to terms. If things had all gone their way - they might have really tried Sea Lion but when they didn't it was called off. The Germans gave up on Britain coming to terms and went off to do what they'd wanted to do all along - Attack the Soviet Union.
We cannot know what would have happened if the British and the French had declared war on the Soviet Union.
I don't know if anything would have happened. The Soviets weren't in a position to attack much that was important to them - except - maybe going down into Iran to take the British Oil there. I think probably not. They were to focused on the Germans.
Once the Germans and Soviets were at war ... the British may have rethought their position.
In any case - there wasn't much the British and French could do about anything the Soviet Union did - so - it probably doesn't make any difference whether they declared War on them or not.
The biggest difference would have been once Lend Lease started flowing from the US. The US really gave the Soviets a lot of stuff. It probably didn't make a difference in whether or not the Germans defeated the Soviets - but - it may have made a difference in whether the Soviets could defeat the Germans. Because of the 400,000 trucks and jeeps the US Gave the Soviets - that - played a real role in making the Soviets Army's more mobile. Without that - the Soviets may have found it difficult to defeat the Germans - but - we'll never know.
.
@@BobSmith-dk8nw Soviets promised to attack Poland 1 september 1939 hand by hand with Germany.
After Germans invaded and Soviets did nothing Germans were asking them why they are not attacking...
When Moscow responded that they are not ready yet and London declared the war painter in Berlin was not far from heart attack. Watch Victor Suvorov lecture about the topic 50min long... he have also whole book about it "icebreaker".
Love the channel but be nice too have your knowledge on other wars than ww2 love respect from Toronto 🇨🇦
Kannst du eine Bezugsquelle für "Geschichte des Großen Vaterländischen Krieges der Sowjetunion." angeben? Ich bin hochinteressiert an diesen Büchern, aber wenn findet man nur einzelne Exemplare, manche Bände sind so gut wie gar nicht zu bekommen und die komplette Reihe direkt aus Russland kaufen für 750€ ist mir dann doch zu riskant.
Gruß
second hand, ich hab auch leider "nur" ein paar Stück bekommen: 1, 2, 3 und 6.
Overall an interesting video despite two quite debatable and controversial points. My thumbs up as always.
I like the sad faced conscript icon, that's pretty funny
"Not an invasion"
Just like Putin said when he invaded Ukraine
If it was a invasion,The Russians will show no mercy to the Ukrainians.
8:21, I assume that youtube doesn't allow you to write Navi (v=z)?
na, that was just a weird typo we didn't catch.
you are a grand explicator - maps while you speak would add depth and more detail
Thanks, sadly they are very time consuming.
После гражданской войны была советско - польская война в 20е годы, где Польша забрала земли у СССР, земли сегодняшней Белоруссии и Украины. Польша до своего уничтожения прекрасно общалась с Германией и польские националисты мечтали о Польше от моря до моря. Так вместе с Германией они поделили Чехословакию, это произошло из за Польши и Франции которые хотели умиротворить Гитлера. Советский Союз ещё тогда предлогал защитить Чехословакию. После того как СССР понял, что коалиция против Германии не может быть создана, заключил сам договор чтобы выиграть время, так как понимал что война с Германией неизбежна по идеологическим причинам. Секретная часть пакта Молотова и Риббентропа содержала в себе раздел Польши, но со стороны СССР по договору предполагалось вернуть только земли захваченные Польшей в 20-е годы. Кстати сбежавшее правительство Польши приказало польской армии не сопротивляться советским войскам и никто в мире тогда не осудил действия СССР, все понимали если не СССР займет эти земли то их займёт Германия. Теперь Польша кричит на весь мир об оккупации!
Absolutely amazing episode, thanks! I am an American, 72 years old and a retired USA career military member of nearly 40 years service. A university graduate. Absolutely NONE of these facts from written sources is taught in European history classes in USA schools, then or now. During my military service in West Germany in the 1960s through 1980s we heard only incomplete bits and pieces of this betrayal of the Polish people by Germany & the USSR.
Tales of betrayal of the Polish people are propaganda nonsense, Poland was not a peaceful neighbor at the time, in 1920 Poland attacked the Soviet republics and seized some territory from them, the Soviet Union returned these very lands in 1939.
Poland along with the Nazis dismembered Czechoslovakia, and the Soviet Union was the only state in the world that at the level of the League of Nations called to defend Czechoslovakia and offered Prague military aid.
It was the Czechoslovak people who were betrayed when cowardly England and France handed them over to Hitler.
@@johnlenin830 Half truth - all lie.
"Poland was not a peaceful neighbor at the time" only this statement is true.
@@johnlenin830 Half of your post is just pure sensational nonsense.
The number of people who repeat Soviet propaganda in comments under a video about a "source" that is, essentially, Soviet propaganda, is surprising.
Nice
My father, who was in the Polish army, was taken prisoner in the defence of Grodno and sent to Siberia (via the Lubyanka). My grandmother was ‘liberated’ from Polish oppression and err sent to Siberia. Well, at least the Russians are even handed.
Now I undestand why Pols are helping UA so hard. You know exacty what comunist Putin is doing.
@@hb-ol9oc Wow, Putin is a communist now. What;s next? Biden is a fascist?
That into, wow what a trip
*Humanitarian Intervention in Poland
Bourgeois is a French loan word, a native English speaker would pronounce it something like booj-wah. There is a notable break in the middle, slightly longer than one would hear with a native two syllable word.
In the end Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels printed its "Manifesto of the Communist Party" in London not in Moscow...
Was the region already considered "Western Belarus and Ukraine" at the time, or was that a post-hoc renaming after Stalin decided to move Central Europe west by half a country?
Read something about Curzon line
It was Malorossia province in Russian Empire, and independent Western Ukraine peoples republic, wich was intervented and occupied by Poles during Russian Civil War.
It is a complicated question.
TLDR :kind of a stretch but generally "yes"
1. It has to be said that lands east of Poland were mixed ethnically and with a lot of gradients instead of any true borders when it comes to traditional statehoods. A lack of natural barriers created a reality where populations and borders changed often for the past centuries. A lot of those western Rus lands in the XX cent. had Polish population and were considered part of Belarus/Ukraine as a region and part of Poland as a country/nation
2. In the past generally everything east of Poland (everything orthodox?) was just called "Rus" adjective "Ruthenian". There were a lot of Rus'es: Kievan Rus, Moscovite Rus, Red Rus, White Rus (Bela - white), Black Rus and many more. Look at the full titles of Tsars where they like to name the different Rus'es. Moscovite history for a long time was about uniting the whole of the Rus to the point where it became "Russia".
3. The lands which Stalin called "western Ukraine" were called "ruthenian" by the Polish authorities there since the IV century. Then it was the Red Rus. In XX cent. the area was a mix of populations with majority and the cities and towns being polish. But It needs to be said that when a Pole said that, he did not mean that they were not Polish as well. The word "Ukraine" for a XV Polish person means "borderland". "kraina" is the a loose word for "land" in polish now. When the concept of Ukraine as a country in XIX cent started it didnt have proper borders but nonetheless calling the L'viv area as "western Ukraine" would have been understood for sure.
4."western belarus" is more problematic because White Rus as a concept was out of use for some time before Stalin. For most of its time it was a part of Grand Duchy of Lithuania within the Polish Lithuanian Commonwealth. These lands were also considered ruthenian. People there were ruthenian and spoke ruthenian. Later in the XIX cent they became Belarusian. When Russia took over in XVII the lands were called after the major cities just like in Lithuania. It is Bolsheviks who started to talk about the White Rus because they wanted to appeal to the people rather than then the hated Poles and/or Lithuanians.
As to what Stalin took over in 1939 and called "western belarus" : Majority polish in all the areas but the eastern part could be understood as western Belarus in a historical context.
6.Most of what I wrote is a simplification of a very complicated topic but I tried to be succinct :)
@@Goran1138 it was part of Polish-Liethuenian Commonwealth before Russia anected it. So rather Poland took it back then occupied
@@sianek7973
And before this territories was a territory of the Antient Rus under Ruric dynasty. Poland was not even close in those times.
When Antient Rus collapsed under mongolian hordes, Grand Duchy of Lithuania just annexed part of the Antient Rus, and later Poland swallowed Lithuania with annexed Russian lands.
It was just one little problem - Russia raised up again from the ashes and slowly taked territories back lol.
Was the German version intended for a East German public?
from what I know yes or at least as a foundation for the officials, teachers, etc.
For all socialist block and abroad
@@TheSunchaster But primarily not to antagonize their Russian overlords presumably.
gonna send this to my polish friend. i bet he loves it.
they sent
1. To take lands that Polands invaded in 1919-21 back
2. Protect local belarus and ukrainian population suffered under Poland
@@Leonid_Brezhnev1 are you really that dense?
@@firstone3289 That's just the russia propaganda today for you. They are still commies in their hearts and they do not accept the truth.
@@Geckoz Yeah they still make them like that in the gulags. The funniest thing about it is that they love it.
@@Leonid_Brezhnev1 Local Ukrainian population was "suffering" from Apparent Lack of Holodomor (you know, that Holodomor that Soviets used to "protect" Ukrainians from being alive).
there was an old cold war joke - Question - With whom Soviet Union borders? Answer - "With whoever they want.."
...да как и другой, - у вас есть нефть? Да. Тогда вам нужна наша демократия ( США ).
@@user-wh9mj9zg7s And another one )
Huge oil deposit was discovered at the Antarctica. US troops are already on their way to get rid of the opressive penguin regime. )
Soviets to Poland when Germany considers stepping beyond their M-R pact sphere of influence:
*YOU ARE BEING LIBERATED. PLEASE PREPARE TO RECEIVE DEMOCRACY.*
To be fair, the alternative would be just letting Germany take it, which is far worse.
@lati long Maybe tell us more, especialy why German tank commanders in 1939 were trained in Soviet Union in "Kama tank school" and fighter pilots in "Lipetsk fighter-pilot school"?
Or maybe about Gas-Testgelände Tomka?
Why all the German tank were made out of Soviet metals and burning soviet oil in september 1939? Any smart explanation of that?
"To be fair" Yea that is true if you using Soviet books to learn about it...
Soviet murdered almost every Polish citizen that was in uniform(military or civilian uniform...).
Before German attack on the Soviet Union most of the civilians that were murdered died in the Soviet part of Poland or in Siberia from hunger or cold or both as Soviets started massive deportations of Polish citizens and extermination of Polish intelligentsia asap and Germans needed to train Gestapo when NKVD had allready huge experience in this topic and that is why they were making conferences in Poland for Gestapo to teach Germans how to do it...
Its always interesting to hear the other perspective.
I agree 100%! I don't place much stock in the the Soviet account but it is fascinating nonetheless.
me too. even already knowing what kind of propagandistic bull**** would come out of it.
You guys shouldn't believe that Soviet persoective is BS whille Allied is not. They *both* are. Twisting facts to fit a specific narrative is what they have in common
@@MeinungMann Did the poles twisted the narrative to serve their interests? Coz what you call *allied narrative* is pretty much the polish one, with extra accounts of events extracted from what was left from german primary sources after the third reich's demise and from soviet sources after the fall of communism in europe. This account of events Bernhardt is presenting is the one pre-1991 that was presented in the soviet block... It's BS even for modern russian standards, I'm sorry for those who cannot see that.
@@MeinungMann Another thread here did discuss how those in Western Belorussian territories, held by Poland at the time, did in fact celebrate the arrival of the Soviet armed forces. This is something NEVER discussed by western accounts of the time.
It reminds me of the old saying; "There are always three sides of the story. One side, the other side and then what actually occurred." Typically I find that there are truths hidden within both sides' perspectives.
Idk what visualized in this? I just keep getting these texts crossing over and I’m reading a history book on UA-cam
Ahhh I have read it when in high school I've decided to have a look at the oldest available works about the 2nd WW.
I find it funny that in the German edition names of many towns in territories of Soviet occupied areas still bear the names which are clearly pre-1939 Polish - such a mistake in the class struggle against imperialism!
Even in Polish edition of the multi volume story there were major fuck ups which the translators were not able to remove from the Soviet edition - not the lies or such, but more obvious lies which could annoy a Polish reader. For example the map of Poland was pretty much what Germany occupied and Soviet zone was pretty much Soviet from the beginning.
Some corrections - at Grodno for a time there were units from Reserve Cavlary Brigade Wołkowyjsk - an improvised cavalry unit which was moving through the city towards the border with Lithuania. The most serious battles between retreating Polish units and the Soviets were fought in the central area - between concentrated Border Guard units (KOP) at Szacko and Wytyczno and between SGO Polesie (a number of SOviet POVs volunteered to change sides which speaks a lot about Stalin's "popularity") before it engaged German troops at Kock in October.
In areas of western Ukraine combat was less intense - are was smaller, more Polish forces knew about Rydz-Śmigły's order and crossed the border with Romania and Hungary (including undefeated 10th "Black" Cavalry Brigade of colonel Maczek), Polish Airforce flew en masse to Romania with 100 airplanes and finally the government crossed the border as well.
Finally there is the entire question of Lwów/Lviv defenders (c. 2 infantry divisions) which negotiated with Soviets after repulsing a probing attack and allowed conditions to cross the border with Romania. Which of course the Soviets broke. Plus there was a number of smaller clashes up to a brigade level.
P.S. The PL Infantry Division video is a bit outdated if we deal with more recent research such as about motorized AT companies which apparently were quite numerous. Not sure if it is possible to find it in English or German though, because the research is still relatively recent and still not concluded.
> P.S. The PL Infantry Division video is a bit outdated if we deal with more recent research such as about motorized AT
> companies which apparently were quite numerous. Not sure if it is possible to find it in English or German though,
> because the research is still relatively recent and still not concluded.
yeah, I am not surprised, it is based on a rather "generic" and old source, but back in 2016 I had nothing different. Nowadays I probably would not make a video with that source situation anymore.
"finally the government crossed the border as well"
What do you mean by that? I thought they managed to desert right before midnight on 17th September. Obviously, it would be hard to outrun the planes, so they couldn't be faster than those.
That's what you meant?
@@MilitaryHistoryVisualized Please do not worry too much.
The subject is pretty difficult given a number of annoying difficulties - non-English language sources are less likely to be used by English language authors and that is the main way such information is spreading plus because Polish archives were partially plundered, destroyed or dispersed during the war such research is improving at glacial pace, especially during the pandemic.
Besides there is a difference between what is already verified and accepted and that is only being argued about.
Paweł Mikołaj Rozdżestwieński (I know, I had to check the spelling myself) who is the authority when it comes to PL Infantry Divisions writes about three identified IDs with 12 AT cannons in an autonomous motorized company - 15th, 12th, 19th and refers to "a number of others" which means that is the facts which are verified.
Others made some discoveries about the "others" including a number of companies build in the process of the mobilization which was only partially concluded so we have no idea (yet) how many of the companies were improvised from available resources and how many were properly organised and trained.
I guess the safest way to handle the subject is to speak that PL IDs were in the process of planned, gradual modernization which has several aspects and one of them were the AT companies with the three IDs identified while others are still a subject of research which might never be concluded doe to lack of primary sources.
When it comes to the PL in 1939 I think that much, much more glaring problem is how post 17th September battles in 1939 are handled and that includes the second biggest battle of the entire campaign - at Tomaszów Lubelski including intriguing subject of partially improvised (pre war it was planned for November) Warsaw Motorized Brigade with 80+ ArVs.
I personally find it odd that such a large battle with some interesting factors doesn't exist in many works about the campaign despite for how long sources are available, also in English.
I guess it is a case similar to the post Dunkirk battles in France which are usually almost not touched.
That is another reason why I like Your, Bismarck's, Drach's and Chieftain's work so much - a lot of interesting, less known subjects, so keep up the good work!
Take care!
TM
@@bakters You are correct that I chose the sequence intentionally. The intention was to explain the cause (SOV army invades) and the effect (PL army and gov evacuates) which contradicts Soviet claims. That is also important from the legal point of view. Because the Soviets argued that since the gov of PL left various non-aggression treaties are no longer valid while it was pretty much the opposite.
The wording is even more important nowadays because similar arguments were used against Ukraine before the invasion in 2014.
That is pretty much all what I meant.
@@tomaszmankowski9103 We can't change the reality, can we? The government ran away first, the army stayed to make the evacuation possible, if not for any other reason. (Actually, German casualties in the second moth of the war were higher than in September.)
If we claim otherwise, they can show we are lying, which loads their propaganda guns. We don't need that, do we?
You know there is an echo of all of this today in the tensions between Belarus and Poland. It is interesting that Poland is planning an expansion of its military in the face of that. Maybe this is really good timing from you to look at how these events were portrayed at the time and compare to the rhetoric that we hear today.
Tension exist because Poland do noy accept dictatorship and brutal regime of Lukashenko. Last conflict is based on fasification of presidential election in Bielarus. Lukashenko is building tension to create myth of danger from "West" and Poland for Bielarus independence, when in reality Russia want just swallow that country.He staged a influx of "asylium seekers" and treat Poland with Bielarus military power supported by Russia, Both Putin and Lukashenko are talking about preventive attacks on Poland "if it pose a treat " for Russia or Bielarus. Nothing strange that with historic expirience Poland want to modernize army.
@@horatio8213 You can see given your post that this current propaganda is a like seeing a page taken from the book of the Soviet propaganda talked about in this video.
Belarus's economy is based on potato harvests, I doubt they will ever threaten military action.
@@freedomordeath89 Belarus is not the potential problem, Russia is.
@@jimsackmanbusinesscoaching1344 Russia can't move a muscle as long as the US/EUrope protect Poland. russia is all bark, no bite. They have 10% the economic power of NATO, they can't fight an open war, that's why they resort to corruption, backend deals, propaganda, kgb tactics, sending polonium-tea assassins etc.
Russia is much weaker than they want you to know, outside of Moscow and Saint Petersburg, people live like in Africa basically. Same level of services, economy, education.
DDR era books are a scream with the metering out of truth in relation to real historical occurrences and Soviet political rhetoric which are best described as having the correct political perception.
The ppl in the GDR Knew what happened. They experienced it firsthand, as did West Germans. Even the propaganda didn't bring anything and there were riots anyway. I don't want to say that the British and the USA were nice, but it doesn't get any worse than the USSR.
@@nrw64 The French and the Soviets were the two worst in that regards, especially with how they treated POWs.
@@nrw64 "GDR Knew what happened. " When 10% of country population is working for Stasi it is hard to hide anything...
@@dragonace119 "how they treated POWs." they should like Germans hold people in POWs camp with no access to food? Maybe check how many millions of Soviet POWs were staved or worked to death by Germany during WW2...
@@Bialy_1 Did I say otherwise? I just said the French and Soviet were some of the worst with the Soviets being the worst in regards to the ALLIES not AXIS.
Damn I really want that book
Military History Visualized, can you do a video giving an understanding of the nature of German/Polish relations leading up to the German invasion. Specifically why Germany and Poland couldn't appear to find common ground to their mutual benefit. I can't help but wonder how world events would have been different had Poland allied itself to Germany. We're attempts made and if so why did they fail?.
Poland and Germany were loosely allied before September 1939. The Poles 'joined' with the Germans in the 1938 invasion of Czechoslovakia. They couldn't find common ground because the Germans believed that all Polish ground should be German and that all the Poles should be 6 feet under it. Not much room for common ground. But yes theoretically if the Germans could have put aside their racial ideology the Poles might have joined them in an invasion of the Soviet Union. And if that had been successful the Germans would have stabbed the Poles in the back and killed them all and taken all of Poland anyway.
1) I am not a diplomatic historian, 2) I don't read nor speak Polish and 3) it lies outside my interest. Might happen if I stumble on a great article or something, but even then more likely for my second channel: ua-cam.com/users/MilitaryHistoryVlogs
@@konskift No, Poles had their own conflict with Czechoslovakia over the same territory since 1920 when Czechoslovak army took it over, they just took the opportunity in 1938 and there was nothing more in common with Germany about it.
Poland was offered alliance, plenty of other Slavic people collaborated, but it refused at least partly because of trusting in the alliance with Britain and France but also because... Poland didn't wanted to fight the soviets, nor Germans, it wanted to be in the middle and not to side with any.
ever heard about lebensraum?
@@konskift Do not forget that Hitker in 1930's didn't have history of mass genocide against Poles. USSR and Stalin did. Soviet murdered thousend of Poles in 1920's and 1930's. 1937-38 bring Polish Operartion, which was murdering 100 000 to 200 000 Poles by NKVD. In that situation which dictator would be your chocie for negotiation?
And Soviets demand basicly from Polaand letting Red Army into Poland. How it ends you can see on examples of Baltic States in 1940.
Russia is always there to help her neighbors. By force.
Today Ukraine is liberated by Russians just like Poland was.
poor poland, why did their mayor praise hitler, helped pogrom jews and helped against czechoslovakia?
@@WM-gf8zm why Russians are more butthurted about Czechoslovakia then Czechs who are allies to Poland? Your petty propaganda is not working troll.
Well without Russian liberation of Poland Germans would have killed them all. By 1945 the Nazis killed 6 million of them, Generalplan Ost only stopped because the red army pushed them away. So factually Poland was saved by the soviets commie evil or not, Germans were to kill them all, soviets didn't.
@@firstone3289 except im not russian but a citizen of your "allied" country :)
@@firstone3289 čo vôbec vieš o našej historii? chod si hrať na reddite
Thanks!
thank you very much!
I was wondering if you have read Martin Caidin's book The Tigers are Burning ? He covers Stalingrad, the Stavka Reserve, and the battle of Kursk.
no
I shouldn't be surprised by this, but...wow.
Interesting video! If the Soviets/Russians start talking about liberating your country, you should be very worried 😂.
"We have come to liberate you and your people. Please do not resist."
Comment with a very Western bias....to be fair, those territories were part of their old country not that long before, and no one, even today gives any consideration to Russian security concerns. If they had history would have been very different.
The land that the soviets took in 1938 was the land that was taken after poland invaded belarussia and ukraine in the 1920's, so technically... its pretty accurate.
@@Internetbutthurt Which old country? Tsarist Russia? A Russian chauvinist empire which brutally suppressed national independence movements? Modern Russian security concerns = Putin's concerns about holding onto power, what about the Ukrainian or Georgian security concerns?
@@real-history-online You forgot that most of those pre 1939 territories which soviets stolen from Poland were once a part of the Polish-Luthuanian Commonwealth... and become a part of the Tsarist Russia after Poland's final Third Partition which removed her from the Worlds maps for over 138 years...
"The expansion of the soviet family of nations and the USSR's measures to secure its borders"
this is the kind of manipulation of language that would make Orwell blush lol
Omg literally 1984
@@RedFortress larper detected
@@RedFortress - Don't say you love the anime (Orwell's 1984) if you haven't read the manga (The Protocols of Sion).
Yes, but at least it's obvious unlike today's propaganda
The winner writes the history books
Guy on the ground, “See ya’ later”. Guy on the tank, “Yeah, coming and going.”
That's my family history. Half of the family is from village near Brest. Grandpa was a belorussian separatist during the polish times, member of Western Belorussia Communist Party, he was extatic when the soviet troops arrived, but a year later he was in Vorkuta, mining coal, and grandma with kids was in a settlement camp in Kazakhstan, trying not to starve. Then in a miraculous turn of events grandpa gets into the newly forming soviet polish division ( Tadeusz Kościuszko Infantry Division) by pretending to be polish, gets promoted, awarded and uses army connections to get grandma from the camps. After the war they return to the village and go on living as usual soviet farmers, eventually producing my father. Interestingly, grandpa did not hold much grudge against the soviet regime or Stalin. He felt that he and other belorussinas were their own people, exploited by stronger nation, poles, germans and then soviets. In his mind the soviets were harsh and even brutal, but still the good guys, who's actions never came close to the horrors the nazi occupation. What he never regretted is becoming independent from Poland though.
You mean that he never regretted becoming a Soviet citizen.
Independent from Poland but still not Independent.
Cognitive dissonance is strong with this one.
And my grand grand pa found himself in Kazachstan (from Brzostowica - Pohranicznyj) with all family. Still, they returned to Poland after war.
Lol "independent"
@@paulbenedict1289 Humans are complicated. He blamed mostly the guy that wrote the anonimous letter to NKVD for his imprisonment, and less the system. For him there was no dissonance, and who am i to judge him from my cosy seat.
Do you know if the Soviet narrative changed in the 70s and 80s?
not sure, I looked also at the (semi)-official East German History of Germany in the Second World War and from what I remember it was pretty much in-line that version and the structure was also the same. So, I assume the overall part was the same. It would be interesting what the official "Soviet Polish" version looked like though. If there were major changes, I assume it happened there.
I know from another book that was written from one of the major authors that there were quite some changes about how the Western Allies were portrayed depending on the political situation, but that was about UK & USA not Poland.
There's is a Katyn memorial visiting which Polish high command decided to self-destruct 🤔. Rest in peace.
I doubt it as hardliners were in charge both in the USSR & DDR. The change under Gorbachev was short lived and Putin stopped all reforms and returned to the Cold War narrative.
Thank you. The Polish version would be interesting for sure. I'm curious now how Yugoslavia told this history, as being part of neither the western nor eastern block.
7.57 the reconnaissance issue will be solved during the winter war in 1939-1940. After that war The supreme command of the USSR will conduct a detailed analysis of all mistakes and fails that were made there.
The ussr was kicked out the league of nations for invading poland but their diplomacy was restored in the global order with their participation in ww2
Sorry, but I must beg to differ on two controversial points!
First, technically there were NO joint parade of the Soviet and German troops. The German troops withdrew from the town in a ceremonious manner, and then the Soviet troops paraded into the town only AFTER the Germans left, they didn't march together in joint formations and there are no photos to prove it except those that were very poorly redacted by the Germans. The Soviet officers depicted on existing pictures only observed the withdrawal paying standard-issue military courtesies.
Second, the conclusions of the Nuremberg Trials still hold the Nazis responsible for the Katyn massacre and they were not officially declared invalid or were they? E.g. the postmortem examinations state that the executions were carried out by the German standard-issue calibers not the Soviet. If there is some international court ruling that changed that - please let me know. Spare me with politicians' bullshit as politicians lie every day.
Your last sentence is very ironic considering what the rest of your comment consists of, political bullshit.
@@MrFinnishFury if you can prove me wrong, then please refer me to a picture where Nazis and Soviets are matching together in a formation so that it can prove that there was indeed a joint parade. The second - refer me to internationally recognised international court ruling with due procedure. Should you succeed in providing the requested proof I shall publicly declare my original statement as false.
@@JohanKlein You know Soviet Union and Hitler's Germany carried economic exchange , apart of military cooperation - hence German made ammunition in Soviet use.
@@JohanKlein "the conclusions of the Nuremberg Trials still hold the Nazis responsible for the Katyn massacre and they were not officially declared invalid or were they?"
- Are you even aware that Russian acknowledged that Soviets were responsible for the massacre?
@@JohanKlein "the conclusions of the Nuremberg Trials still hold the Nazis responsible for the Katyn massacre"
I don't think it is. Wikipedia says that that indictment was dismissed by British and American judges. (Yes I know, Wikipedia can be unreliable but at least it's better than no source at all.)
An interesting fact. Now in Russia it's officially prohibited to equate Nazi Germany's aggression against Poland with USSR's agression in 1939.
And rightfully so.
@@dnndndnendnd2605 lol ok
The USSR just took its lands back. Remember 1921
@@sovietheart3883 ah yes.. the historical soviet lands of galicia!
@@sovietheart3883 it's not it's lands, that's why they don't own them today, they were communists trying to take back lands the imperialist monarchy had
I haven't seen it but I will do it. Soon. That's comment is just for a chanel distribution.
Woooo!
Видео представляет из себя сомнительный набор цитат их 2х источников. Как оно должно было выглядеть на самом деле:
Монголо-татары вторглись в восточную Европу в 13м. веке, в результате чего восточнославянские земли вошли в состав литовского, польского, австро-венгерского государств. После восстановления своей государственности в 20м. веке Польша немедленно принялась откалывать осколки от Литвы, Германии, Белоруссии, Украины. Как указано в видео, приняла участие в разделе Чехословакии (на тот момент союзника СССР). После бегства польского правительства, СССР в одностороннем порядке пересматривает условия мирного договора 21г. и демаркирует границу по предложенному Польшей (при посредничестве Антанты) 18 лет назад мирному договору (отвергнутому советской стороной), т.е. по линии Керзона.
Вопрос для размышления: если СССР согласно "либеральной трактовке" действительно был агрессором в отношении Польши, то получается ли что Антанта кинула союзников-поляков дважды за раз?
Бесполезно метать биссер перед свиньями
@frank santiago ua-cam.com/video/gxrmnoYCpQU/v-deo.html
Myślisz się Czechosłowacja była sojusznikiem angli i francij ! I Polska odebrała zaolzie w 90 procentach zamieszkana przez Polaków Czechosłowacja zgodziła się oddać ten teren A zostały zabranie ponieważ oddali Hitlerowi Sudety które też w dużej części należały do Polski
Agresja wynika z tego że to wy podpisalscie pakt z Hitlerem ribentrop molotow 7 dni przed wojną ( w sądzie norymberskim ribentrop dokładnie opowiedział o co chodziło w tym pakcie. ) oraz zabranie naszych oficerów i wymordowanie w lesie pod Katyniem 21 tysięcy oficerów .. A ich rodziny zabrane na Syberię ... 1 wojna wam nie wyszła Polski wywiad świetnie rozpracowal bolszewików łamiąc szyfry waszych depesz i odepchnelismy was za kijow i Mińsk .. w drugiej wojnie gdyby nie pomóc amerykanów to niemcy zaraz po Polskiej HUSARRI były by 2 państwem który podbił Moskwę ale Rosja miała 3 dobrych generałów to byl "grudzień "styczeń " i " luty " 🙂
W rozmowach Churchilla z Stalinem i rosveltem tak miała przebiegać granica to prawda .churchil zabiegał o Polskę ponieważ to my zlamalismy szyfry enigmy przez co wojna trwała krócej o jakieś kilka lat . I nasi lotnicy wygrali bitwę o Anglię " dywizjon 303 " Polacy walczyli po stronie aliantów wygrali twierdzę pod monte casino i bitwę o arnhem w holandi .. dlatego churchilowi zależało żeby Polska była WOLNA od komunizmu ... nie zabieram waszym żołnierzom niczego bo byli wytzymali i silni ale po to wybuchło powstanie warszawskie gdzie młode 14 letnie dzieciaki kobiety poszli walczyc o WOLNA POLSKE z Niemcami przeplacajac za to życiem.. niestety Anglicy i Amerykanie nas zdradzili i Polscy bohaterowie po wojnie musieli dalej walczyc z komunizmem dla nich nie było amnesti dalej toczyła się wojna z nkwd.. uważam że Polska była 3 siła na świecie przeciwko nazistom zaraz po Rosij i USA a Anglicy decydowali o naszym losie to było niesprawiedliwe .. możesz nie lubić Polski Polaków a dla nas Ojczyzna liczyła się Njabardziej i nie żydy tylko Polacy ucierpieli najbardziej podczas wojny .ja uważam że 17.08. To data wbicia nam noża w plecy
At 0:28 the Icon for the "officially not an invasion" is a mlp character and I would like to know why?? Is it an inside joke?
Its a long time running joke for this channel. If you watch older videos it makes a regular appearance for anything ridiculous or fantasized.
> is a mlp character and I would like to know why??
you assume too much, it is a cartoon horse with wings and rainbow colored hair... so a rather "fictitious fantasy (being)".
Interesting
Mad Krim Peninsula Vibes 😉
I believe this is in the category: "Bernhard read painfully propagandistic intellect-offending Soviet litterature, so you didn´t have to"
"They were discharged and allow to settle in the lands of their choosing" is a nice way to say "put against a wall and shot".
Ah, if we all could only live in this reality they wrote of...
they were sent to vladivostok meat farms
Comrade their ghost was able to haunt wherever they pleased after we liberated it from their body and socialized the people
Single bullet into the back of the head... not wall was involved and they also did that to anyone in Polish uniform including police, railroad workers, post workers...
People who give excuse for Soviet invasion/intervention should ask themselves, why Hitler invade Poland in the first place? The main cause was that the Polish Government refuse to attack USSR with Germans. Attack on Poland open road to USSR for Nazi regime.
While narration of securing of buffer zone make no sense. If Stalin declares that he will send supply and war materials for Poland just like the USA for UK in 1940-41, that could deter Hitler from war. Even if Poles do not want Soviet troops in Polish borders Hitler would lose any real chance to wage war, hostile neutrality would put Hitler's plan in jeopardy. It is simple economy.Instead USSR provide much needed materials for German war economy, which were needed after Fall Weiss. Germans rebuild their strength and invade France in 1940 only because Soviet-Nazi trade.
But if Soviet goal was expansion and creating Soviet controlled Europe, then pact with Hitler was the best way to secure Soviet position against UK and France
"While narration of securing of buffer zone make no sense. " - It's the genius trick of securing the buffer by helping Hitler destroy the buffer. You know, "let's have our enemies closer to our borders" sort of strategic genius.
One thing that has puzzled me for year's and I can't find an answer. Why didn't great Britain and France declare war on Russia, after all they invaded Poland as well.
Allied guarantee were given for Poland only for German invasion not include USSR. At later time France and UK were developing plans to help Finland or even bomb Baku oil fields.
Many thanks for this.
I could never find any information about it.
@@pohl54 If I good remember that information is covred in articles about British and French guarantee from 1939.
Polish version of this article state it much more clear tahn english one.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo%E2%80%93Polish_military_alliance
Once again many thanks.