Please Share this video! A lot of knowledge here i believe is not well known. Also this is important and I forgot to mention this in the video, but the BACKGROUND of the stages determines what you get. So, FD and the battlefield-version of FD both use the shovel to dig (best for steve), but regular battlefield, or even the omega version of battlefield, both use the pickaxe to dig, meaning it breaks earlier which is bad for steve since he loses access to a good Fair/Bair/Dashattack for a while. I might make another video on this topic specifically in detail, so stay tuned for that. edit - here is some stage data below on how fast you dig and what set order you get per stage (up until first Diamond instance). Could be useful. ---- FD/BF/SmallBF (15/14 frames apart for starting weapon for each item dug, 14/13 for Iron, 12/11 for Gold, 13/12 for Diamond) Dirt, Wood, Cobblestone, Iron, Redstone, Wood, Iron, Dirt, Cobblestone, Iron, Wood, Cobblestone, Redstone, Wood, Cobblestone, Iron, Dirt, Gold(18), Dirt, Redstone, Wood, Iron, Dirt, Iron, Dirt, Iron, Wood, Cobblestone (item breaks at that moment i get cobblestone), Dirt, Diamond(30, it’s every 30 also consistently online on these 3 stages) ---------------- SV/Town(15/14 frames apart), YS ground Wood, wood, iron, wood, iron, wood, redstone, wood, iron, wood, iron, wood, redstone, wood, wood, iron, wood, gold(18), wood, iron, wood, redstone, wood, wood, iron, wood, wood, diamond(28) ------------- YS(13/12) platform only Wool(idk what the white one is called lol), wool, iron, wool, iron, wool, wool, redstone, wool, wool, iron, wool, iron, wool, iron, wool, wool, redstone, wool, gold(20), wool, wool, iron, wool, wool, iron, wool, wool, iron, wool, iron, wool, diamond(33) (takes long to get) ----- PS2/Kalos (19/18 frames apart) Cobblestone, Iron, Cobblestone, Redstone, Cobblestone, Iron, Cobblestone, Iron, Cobblestone, Redstone, Cobblestone, Iron, Cobblestone, Gold(14), Cobblestone, Iron, Cobblestone, Redstone, Cobblestone, iron, cobble, Diamond(22) You get gold on basically the exact same frame practically (maybe done on purpose??), and you get Diamond slightly sooner than average on PS2/Kalos than you do on FD/BF/Small BF, however you also get a bit more materials in total on FD/BF/Small BF, so I guess ps2/kalos is slightly better for digging because of the earlier diamond and the instant cobblestone/iron at start of each game and also each stock can be very useful to power up instantly before you're in danger by your opponent. ------------- Lylat 25/24/24/24 frames apart, 23/22 for iron (common to have iron instantly here) Iron, iron, redstone, iron, iron, iron, redstone, iron, iron, iron, gold(11), iron, iron, iron, diamond(15) so lylat is the best overall despite slow digging because of common iron and earlier diamond, although you get less blocks to spam throughout the match. -------- TNT total time is 24 frames, exists on frame 18+, 27 f total time to drop tnt in air, strangely 3f longer total time. -------------- hope this info can be useful!
One thing to note about the category “A” stages (FD, BF, etc) is that they use the shovel to dig instead of the axe / pickaxe, meaning Steve has increased durability on his aerials and up tilt. Seems like all stages have their ups and downs.
That's actually not true. If you look in the video you can even see M2K using pickaxe on BF. However, the tool *does* change on Omega forms even though the stuff that gets mined doesn't. So Omega Minecraft World, for example, uses the shovel while Omega Smashville uses the axe to mine.
@@lillith7257 In Minecraft, different tools are better for different materials. Shovels dig through dirt and sand the fastest, axes chop through wood the fastest, and pickaxes mine through stone and ores the fastest. In Smash, the tools automatically change based on the materials you're mining, but the speed is the same no matter which tool is being used.
Minecraft players: Getting diamonds at Y 12 and 11 Smash players: Getting diamonds at frame 15, 22, 28, 30 and 33 One goal, different style Edit: I put Y 11 because it's considered as the best choice by the most of the Minecraft players
@@vectorricktenson216 did he? He just mentioned he knows that people that play on FD/BF prefer less rng. Plus I'll always argue that Hero works more on percentage probability rather than fully random chance but that's not the argument right now
I mean ... It's MEW2KING ! He discovered the entire frame data of every single character in melee all by himself (just with the game and a controller) way before internet. And most of his research and calculations were ON POINT ! So I'm not really surprised that he knows everything about a new character that just came out in less than a day.
Amid the not-entirely-serious-but-sometimes-taken-that-way "STEVE IS BROKEN" videos, I feel this is really the most interesting thing to talk about in terms of Steve's impact on the metagame, so thank you for doing this video.
I feel like it should be cleared up But yeah he is busted in many many ways Now he could be too slow or whatever to do this but tbh I think he shuts out like half the cast Which is broken
Jokers top teir and heros rng is not complained about because most of the options arent too good. Nobody complained or was scared of terrys go or min mins reach being overpowered, it was just boring to fight against
With all respect, I disagree: Back in the day there was the discussion of Hero’s RNG because of Wack/Twack and the language barrirer. Terry’s case was short lived because of his disadvantage state that makes hard for him to use GO. As for MinMin, I stoped following smash competitions because of Online, son I don’t have an answer. All I’m saying is that the game can’t be broken because of Steve (he is no Vanilla Bayo in 4)
@@cesarelizondoramos3432 Sorry I phrased that wrong, its not longer complained about as much, it was a shitstorm on realise. Sorry for the wording, it was my mistake
The video isn't saying that Steve is broken, it's saying that he has big differences based on the stage in ways that no other character does because of his mining. Cloud's limit doesn't charge faster on certain stages, but Steve gets diamond faster on some.
I played Steve on all the legal stages (with the addition of Yoshi's Island, Unova League, and Yggdrasil's Altar because some tournaments keep these stages legal) and here's the main material you will get for each stage: Battlefield, Small Battlefield, and Final Destination-Predetermined order Yoshi's Story-Wool on the platforms and Wood on the ground Yoshi' Island (Brawl)-Dirt on both the platform and ground Lylat Cruise-Iron on both the platforms and ground Pokemon Stadium 2-Cobblestone on both the platforms and ground Smashville-Wood on both the platform and ground Unova Pokemon League-Cobblestone on both the platforms and ground Kalos Pokemon League-Cobblestone on both the platforms and ground, Iron on the edges Town and City-Wood on both the platforms and ground Yggdrasil's Altar-Cobblestone on both the platforms and ground Minecraft World (I doubt this stage will be legal but I'll go over it anyways)-It depends on which block you stand on Here's a list of the best stages to play on depending on your playstyle with Steve: If you want to play Steve offensively then Lylat Cruise will be your best stage. If you want to play defensively then Yoshi's Story, Smashville, and Town and City will be your best stage. If you want to play a mixture of offensive and defensive then Battlefield, Small Battlefield, Final Destination, Pokemon Stadium 2, and Kalos Pokemon League will be your best stage If a tournament allows you to play on Yoshi's Island, Unova League, Yggdrasil's Altar, and Minecraft World then here's the list of what Steve's best stage will be: Yoshi's Island will be better for defensive play. Unova Pokemon League, Yggdrasil's Altar, and Minecraft World will be better for a mixture of both defensive and offensive play. Hopefully this list is somewhat helpful to someone. Anyways have a good day/night :)
Wool and sand are basically the replacements for dirt on some stages so it basically has the same properties as dirt. Those properties are just being a weak block that goes away really fast
You forgot Kalos's rings. They also has Iron as priority, and considering how big the stage is and how steves loves distances, i think that's the best stage for Steve when not playing defensive. Either way Battlefield and final destination would be bad for Steve if weren't due to he using a shovel instead of an axe/pickaxe (Better weapon durability).
@@alexantone5532 i think regular FD has the best materials, it has the standard loot order and you use the shovel to mine (which you don't need for attacks) BUT you can't farm on thr anvil or tnt
Steve’s stage selection is definitely significant but other characters excel in certain stages as well. For example, Samus players make it extremely difficult to approach them by camping under platforms and using charge shot. People use Kalos against Joker so the grappling hook is more vulnerable. This is just another one of those character stage advantages but for Steve it’s on a higher level.
another thing to mention with this is that better tools mine faster as well. Stone and Iron tools mine faster than wood tools, so if you upgrade your tools with stone or iron right away, you can also mine faster on stages like PS2. So its not as big a deal that it takes longer to mine on PS2 than the other stages, because you can get your upgraded tools right away and cut that time difference down.
@@BukovTervicz Oh wait, sorry, wrong thing lol. I thought you were talking about gold tools, you're talking about mining speeds. That data hasnt been compiled yet as to what I can tell. It should be available soon though hopefully.
@@eragon78 do you have a website or source you check for where in-detail data and numbers like this are gathered? I refresh the wiki every morning but it's way behind this level of detail
@@BukovTervicz I dont have the exact numbers sorry. I just know from testing a little bit myself, but I didnt do any extensive testing. So im not sure where to find detailed numbers unless you go into training room and test it frame by frame manually.
All this minecraft steve disrespect is painful, not only does he just add THAT much more uniqueness and versitility to the game, hes also a iconic video game orginial character so he fits right into smash. People say sakurai did it for the memes but for this reason he was bound to come regardless
I belive they said in the breakdown if the resources are not present it will use the current on in his inventory.. butit applies to tnt.. not sure about rail and minevart
Much like placing blocks, TNT and minecart rails will use iron if you have nothing else available Of course the downside is that you hold much less iron than you do tier 1's, wood, or stone, and thus you'll burn through it incredibly quickly
Something VERY IMPORTANT to know - on different omega/battlefield stages, he still uses different tools. So on Lylat Omega, he still mines it with a pickaxe. This makes him significantly worse on it because in order to get resources, he has to use up his fair/bair uses. We've got to change the ruleset for battlefield/omega variations because of this lmao
This is the best game mechanic analysis I've ever seen. You researched EVERYTHING. Literally exactly what I've been looking for for last 3 days. Thank you sir
The stage list will change but I hope we won’t come to the stupid conclusion of banning Steve... I like this character way too much he’s wacky and entertaining
I don't think folks would call for a ban. Just from seeing how he plays. But I think people will get annoyed by his edge guarding. Smash community can't be trusted though. I could go on about the toxicity of the some in the community but I won't. Asking for nerfs and bans without being willing just learn a matchup.
IDK, man. The thing about Steve is that he can create his own platforms off-stage to get back their double jump, and they can create their own ceiling so they die later vertically. This means that stages with ceilings (like the ARMS stage partial ceiling) or stages with platforms off stage (like the Yoshi's Wooly World one, i think it was?) are now back into consideration. JUST BECAUSE OF STEVE'S MECHANIC. Knowing how narrow-minded the competitive smash community is, i don't consider out of the realm of possibilities that they ban Steve completely. But, like with Hero, it will probably depend on how it performs in tourneys. A.K.A if the top players feel threatened by the new char.
@@lunarohmus for the competitive scene they don't even play on either of those stages. And yeah he can make himself a platform. there is a limit on where he can build he blocks. On higher parts of stages it won't let me build blocks. And up specials with hit boxes just go right through his blocks.
I think like the idea of things changing for the competitive scene..stage choices actually manner now well when it comes to Steve. So it's a good thing in my opinion.
Maybe. I heard some complaints that it’s too big which could be an issue considering how many big stages are already on the list, but I think some forms could be legal
Well you can chose the layout with the button inputs, so the rng of which biome you get isn't an argument here. Also if they just add stages like the fe one and wario ware, then I think people would also have no argument. Basically the competitive community should stop being stingy and add a stage with an interesting platform layout while adding smaller stages to balance this out.
Hitting your opponent off stage then placing a TNT at ledge, and then simultaneously using that TNT to not only exert ledge pressure, but also mining it for improved resource rates sounds SO GOOD
Steve's blocks are cubes with 1m sides, maybe PS2 is an odd size like 20.8 meters or something, so they have to either make the grid lopsided or leave 0.4m on each side.
I mean considering that 4 out of the 6 versions of his stage with hazards off since it doesn't have any blocks could be considered as tournament legal it's going to be interesting. And YES without hazards on all the blocks just don't appear so you are left with just the platforms.
Perhaps this has been asked and answered before, but after screwing around with Steve last night, I'm wondering how the game registers the crafting table, because there are times when I'm standing right on top of it and I still mine. Am I missing something?
@@Rat_the_Renegade that's what I had figured after M2K mentioned that the iron you spawn with can't be used for a weapon right away. Felt like it wasn't working even once I had gold though. Maybe I just need a bit mkre practice with Steve though, he's hardly been out for 12 hours after all lol
@@hellothisismufin I mean, Sakurai stated that you need 4 of a Material to make the weapons. Also said that Gold & Diamond would Flash when able to be used for crafting.
@@hellothisismufin Well I've also noticed times where I let go of B to stop mining and press it again while next to a crafting table and it doesn't craft but mines again so it might be a thing where you can't go from one to the other to quickly.
Something to note: depending on the material can make Steve not be able to use certain moves to the strongest potential like if you mine wood and your axe breaks you can’t do up air up tilt combos.
Green Greens and Fountain of Dreams both have different resources on stage and on platforms. They both have dirt on stage and green greens has wood on platforms while FoD has stone on platforms. It would be interesting if these differences from Steve's inclusion alone could bring back these stages, if only in some tournaments or specific scenarios. Additionally, hazards off Minecraft World would make a fantastic legal stage seeing as it's perfectly flat and has platform variations.
I know what Mewtwo King is saying about the stages, but Sakurai said that every stage is now mapped like the Minecraft stage. It means, “You can get dirt, wood, and stone, on the right side of the map”. This somewhat counter-plays his claim of not being wood & dirt efficient the stage can be(like lylat)
Stages are made of different things, so for some parts or whole stages Steve uses either pickaxe, axe or shovel, shovel being the fastest because it's used for softer materials, and pickaxe being the slowest, being used for harder materials
I don't think this really ruins anything. IMO this just makes variation and strategy with stage picking more complex, but more interesting. Knowing that your opponent has a Steve up their sleeve makes for a lot more strategy with how you compete against them.
Steve's ability to place blocks midair and disconnected from the ground already makes the block placing mechanic one which does not strictly follow minecraft rules, and its definitely for the better. The mechanic would be pretty useless if it followed said rules.
@@thefaithtrio2106 it acts like dirt, Turns out sand and wool and ice (yes, you can mine and place wool and ice in some stages !) in smash are just skins for dirt (durability) but they have different sound effects
This seems to combine well with Grimr's discovery where you insta break shields with anvil. You have time to mine it, finish your opponent and start mining first half of TNT duration before opponent can pressure again with next stock. You maybe even have time to craft the diamond tool as well before opponent can pressure.
Just realize that this only really applies to when you're fighting or playing as Steve. Obviously the current stage lists will be fine in any other situation, and we'll probably see some use out of the minecraft stage in terms of new stage picks, some of those platform positions are really nice.
I've been using Steve on the tournament stage list and have had little issue getting the materials needed. I don't see any of the competitive stages making it hard to use him.
something else to note is that the stage also dictates which tool is used for mining: like FD uses a shovel for mining, while battlefield and small battlefield use a pickaxe, meaning that on FD you are less likely to be caught without a pickaxe for your fairs and bairs where on battlefield you'll need to pay attention to your pickaxe durability a bit more. plus upgrading your tools increases mining speed, allowing you to gather resources at a faster rate than initially available which makes the slower mining speed on stages like PS2 less of a problem since you can immediately upgrade your mining speed to stone or iron. side note: gold tools are definitely worthwhile to make before diamonds since they have a faster mining rate than any other material and increase tool attack speed making it much harder to stop you from gathering diamonds. they might break easily but you almost always have a diamond before that with how fast they can mine.
Good information in this video, a lot that I knew a lot that I didn't. Interesting that you didn't mention the different tools to mine on each stage. Town and smashville both use an axe which makes it difficult to cycle your materials around because of utilt and uair being great combo moves. Lylat, PS2 and the battlefields use pickaxes which isn't as annoying to cycle around but is still irritating as you may want to save your diamonds for the next stock but run out of usage. Finally, FD uses a shovel which isn't used in any moves, making it the best tool for mining since it doesn't cut into the usage of your other moves and doesn't cost your other moves in order to continue mining.
The best stage that is the most advantage of him is something that can be mined with a shovel. Considering the fact that he does not have any use for shovel in combat, making the other tools to be more focus to their durability on combat more than mining.
From playing on stages i also learned that on Great Cave Offensive if you go to the Crystal looking part of the map, the floors and walls there drop ALOT of iron, and get diamond often
something important is what item steve uses to mine. T&C its the axe while battlefield its the pickaxe, others it's a shovel (which isn't part of his attacking move set) what im saying is that it could matter what weapon you lose durability for mining.
haven't seen anyone talk about this anywhere but even on omega stages the material changes which tool you use and that affects how long your pickaxe lasts, shovel stages are the best for steve
I really dont understand why it matters if steve has better RNG on certain stages. Are you saying other characters don't have advantages on certain stages over others? Because they all certainly do O_o
Don’t spend iron on weapons. Mine until you get gold and only use iron for minecart to prevent opponents from approaching. Once you have a lot of iron and diamond you can spam more iron moves since you’re basically stacked
The only Neutral stage that's a significant change for Steve is PS2/Kalos, which should be replaced with Small Battlefield, which has similar platform layout anyway.
Also a thing I thought of today is that in some stages you only use your shovel to mine and then you wont break your pickaxe as fast as on other stages when you use your pickaxe to mine
16:55 I don't think they missed it actually. They clearly did care about the grid because every single stage seems to let blocks be placed parallel with the main floor of the stage. That's why there's no weird height offset on perfectly flat stages. Even PS2 you can see it lines up vertically with the stage. The reason PS2 doesn't let you cleanly block horizontally to stage is because the grid is symmetrical. It would be weird for blocks to be lined up on the left ledge of PS2, but not the right ledge. It's a symmetrical stage. They likely line up vertically with the stage first, then get the middle x coordinate of the whole level and space blocks out from there. PS2's stage length just so happens to not play nicely with the width of a Steve block, and so you get that little gap.
getting more wood and less dirt is amazing! been experimenting with uptilt ladder combos and a block uptilt upsmash finisher is only possible if you place a wood or better block, dirt doesnt give you enough time to uptilt and then channel the whole upsmash. In fact I have to waste the dirt around to set up these 0-70/80s with block extensions, T&C would make it much faster to set up lol
Steve’s best stage is Kalos. This is his best stage because as shown in the video he gets cobblestone then iron or whatever. But if you didn’t know, if you mine the edge of the stage the white area it is the same as lylat, anvil and tnt you get iron more and diamond quicker. If you don’t believe me try it
I think you missed an important factor. I haven't watched through all the way yet, but when you went over town you didn't discuss tools. Your axe breaks when farming wood stages-- that means your fair stays proficient but your uair gets weaker faster on some stages. That matters competitively since uair is integral to racking up damage
Basically, you would prefer stages where you use a shovel. Using an axe will hinder your juggles, using a pickaxe will hinder your edgeguards, and using a shovel will ruin nothing.
12:35 wait, what happens if you start the dig cycle on metal source (stage tile or your own tnt or w/e), but then farm a different tile type, and then even go back to farming on the metal source again? Is it 2 different cycles? Does it keep track of where you are in each separately? Does it merge them somehow? Does it (god forbid) restart the cycle (as if you died) every time you change source types?
Steve: joins Smash
(10 minutes later)
M2K: here is my doctoral thesis on Steve's best stages
LOL
He is a legend for a reason.
Lmao
1,000th LIKE
UE NOT FUNNY QUIT
God, it feels so strange hearing M2K talking about getting diamonds in the context of smash bros lmao
Why? Diamonds are powerful!
It’s not that weird
I thought I was the only one.
I want someone to edit him explaining smash steve into a minecraft gameplay it would be hilarious
Please Share this video! A lot of knowledge here i believe is not well known.
Also this is important and I forgot to mention this in the video, but the BACKGROUND of the stages determines what you get. So, FD and the battlefield-version of FD both use the shovel to dig (best for steve), but regular battlefield, or even the omega version of battlefield, both use the pickaxe to dig, meaning it breaks earlier which is bad for steve since he loses access to a good Fair/Bair/Dashattack for a while. I might make another video on this topic specifically in detail, so stay tuned for that.
edit - here is some stage data below on how fast you dig and what set order you get per stage (up until first Diamond instance). Could be useful.
----
FD/BF/SmallBF (15/14 frames apart for starting weapon for each item dug, 14/13 for Iron, 12/11 for Gold, 13/12 for Diamond)
Dirt, Wood, Cobblestone, Iron, Redstone, Wood, Iron, Dirt, Cobblestone, Iron, Wood, Cobblestone, Redstone, Wood, Cobblestone, Iron, Dirt, Gold(18), Dirt, Redstone, Wood, Iron, Dirt, Iron, Dirt, Iron, Wood, Cobblestone (item breaks at that moment i get cobblestone), Dirt, Diamond(30, it’s every 30 also consistently online on these 3 stages)
----------------
SV/Town(15/14 frames apart), YS ground
Wood, wood, iron, wood, iron, wood, redstone, wood, iron, wood, iron, wood, redstone, wood, wood, iron, wood, gold(18), wood, iron, wood, redstone, wood, wood, iron, wood, wood, diamond(28)
-------------
YS(13/12) platform only
Wool(idk what the white one is called lol), wool, iron, wool, iron, wool, wool, redstone, wool, wool, iron, wool, iron, wool, iron, wool, wool, redstone, wool, gold(20), wool, wool, iron, wool, wool, iron, wool, wool, iron, wool, iron, wool, diamond(33) (takes long to get)
-----
PS2/Kalos (19/18 frames apart)
Cobblestone, Iron, Cobblestone, Redstone, Cobblestone, Iron, Cobblestone, Iron, Cobblestone, Redstone, Cobblestone, Iron, Cobblestone, Gold(14), Cobblestone, Iron, Cobblestone, Redstone, Cobblestone, iron, cobble, Diamond(22)
You get gold on basically the exact same frame practically (maybe done on purpose??), and you get Diamond slightly sooner than average on PS2/Kalos than you do on FD/BF/Small BF, however you also get a bit more materials in total on FD/BF/Small BF, so I guess ps2/kalos is slightly better for digging because of the earlier diamond and the instant cobblestone/iron at start of each game and also each stock can be very useful to power up instantly before you're in danger by your opponent.
-------------
Lylat 25/24/24/24 frames apart, 23/22 for iron (common to have iron instantly here)
Iron, iron, redstone, iron, iron, iron, redstone, iron, iron, iron, gold(11), iron, iron, iron, diamond(15)
so lylat is the best overall despite slow digging because of common iron and earlier diamond, although you get less blocks to spam throughout the match.
--------
TNT total time is 24 frames, exists on frame 18+, 27 f total time to drop tnt in air, strangely 3f longer total time.
--------------
hope this info can be useful!
Thank you for these great Steve videos
M2K you are the smash GOAT
But this video is with hazards on!
But how does it change in hazard
@@cfalcon8342 it soo obvious
Steve is gonna make stage selection a nightmare....
Let's hope we can crack it down soon
One thing to note about the category “A” stages (FD, BF, etc) is that they use the shovel to dig instead of the axe / pickaxe, meaning Steve has increased durability on his aerials and up tilt. Seems like all stages have their ups and downs.
Yes, this is a very important note. I feel like the Steve discord is probably working on this rn (and if not they should be)
That's actually not true. If you look in the video you can even see M2K using pickaxe on BF. However, the tool *does* change on Omega forms even though the stuff that gets mined doesn't. So Omega Minecraft World, for example, uses the shovel while Omega Smashville uses the axe to mine.
And isn't certain weapons faster at mining than others in MC or is that wrong?
And if so does it work the same in smash?
@@lillith7257 In Minecraft, different tools are better for different materials. Shovels dig through dirt and sand the fastest, axes chop through wood the fastest, and pickaxes mine through stone and ores the fastest. In Smash, the tools automatically change based on the materials you're mining, but the speed is the same no matter which tool is being used.
Stop it. Just stop
Minecraft players: Getting diamonds at Y 12 and 11
Smash players: Getting diamonds at frame 15, 22, 28, 30 and 33
One goal, different style
Edit: I put Y 11 because it's considered as the best choice by the most of the Minecraft players
Why did you comment this exact thing twice
@@bongogungerson5723 it happens on mobile(duplicate comments)
Wow bro, its Y 11..... Get yo' facts straight.
@@beezer0382 wasn’t it 11-13 Y
@@sonpham3438 Well technically u can go Y 2-15. But 11 is the best level statistically.
it's insane that Steve of all people has no RNG in his moveset
Nice
Sakurai said he noticed how people got pissed for the RNG in previous characters
@@vectorricktenson216 did he? He just mentioned he knows that people that play on FD/BF prefer less rng.
Plus I'll always argue that Hero works more on percentage probability rather than fully random chance but that's not the argument right now
Didn’t even think about that, thats super interesting
@@shaiky1681 he said that because if different omega and BF forms had diffferent materials, the random option would have an effect.
I love how M2K just knows EVERYTHING about a character a few hours after it’s released
It feels like he creating them himself
I do appreciate his deep dives
I mean ... It's MEW2KING ! He discovered the entire frame data of every single character in melee all by himself (just with the game and a controller) way before internet. And most of his research and calculations were ON POINT !
So I'm not really surprised that he knows everything about a new character that just came out in less than a day.
@@theoblooky1126 nae
He did make the melee bible
Amid the not-entirely-serious-but-sometimes-taken-that-way "STEVE IS BROKEN" videos, I feel this is really the most interesting thing to talk about in terms of Steve's impact on the metagame, so thank you for doing this video.
I feel like it should be cleared up
But yeah he is busted in many many ways
Now he could be too slow or whatever to do this but tbh I think he shuts out like half the cast
Which is broken
Playing against Steve sucks and the upsmash is bullshit
Dude, no offense, but if we survived Arsene, Hero’s RNG, Terry’s GO! And MinMin’s reach, I say we can make it safely
And wondering/grenade egg
Jokers top teir and heros rng is not complained about because most of the options arent too good. Nobody complained or was scared of terrys go or min mins reach being overpowered, it was just boring to fight against
With all respect, I disagree: Back in the day there was the discussion of Hero’s RNG because of Wack/Twack and the language barrirer.
Terry’s case was short lived because of his disadvantage state that makes hard for him to use GO.
As for MinMin, I stoped following smash competitions because of Online, son I don’t have an answer.
All I’m saying is that the game can’t be broken because of Steve (he is no Vanilla Bayo in 4)
@@cesarelizondoramos3432 Sorry I phrased that wrong, its not longer complained about as much, it was a shitstorm on realise. Sorry for the wording, it was my mistake
The video isn't saying that Steve is broken, it's saying that he has big differences based on the stage in ways that no other character does because of his mining. Cloud's limit doesn't charge faster on certain stages, but Steve gets diamond faster on some.
He ruins stage lists just like he ruins little Macs life
Who doesn't ruin Little Mac's life?
@@Ceruleancast little mac
Lol
@@susybaka0148 nah little Mac counters air
@@susybaka0148 also Ganondorf to an extent.
Bro, Steve put keep inventory on. Dude that’s not fair.
Nah he just store all his items on the ender chest
except the tools reset to wooden
What?
@@asdfoifhvjbkaos nah, the illagers took all his weapons then the villagers just give him wooden tools to help.
I played Steve on all the legal stages (with the addition of Yoshi's Island, Unova League, and Yggdrasil's Altar because some tournaments keep these stages legal) and here's the main material you will get for each stage:
Battlefield, Small Battlefield, and Final Destination-Predetermined order
Yoshi's Story-Wool on the platforms and Wood on the ground
Yoshi' Island (Brawl)-Dirt on both the platform and ground
Lylat Cruise-Iron on both the platforms and ground
Pokemon Stadium 2-Cobblestone on both the platforms and ground
Smashville-Wood on both the platform and ground
Unova Pokemon League-Cobblestone on both the platforms and ground
Kalos Pokemon League-Cobblestone on both the platforms and ground, Iron on the edges
Town and City-Wood on both the platforms and ground
Yggdrasil's Altar-Cobblestone on both the platforms and ground
Minecraft World (I doubt this stage will be legal but I'll go over it anyways)-It depends on which block you stand on
Here's a list of the best stages to play on depending on your playstyle with Steve:
If you want to play Steve offensively then Lylat Cruise will be your best stage.
If you want to play defensively then Yoshi's Story, Smashville, and Town and City will be your best stage.
If you want to play a mixture of offensive and defensive then Battlefield, Small Battlefield, Final Destination, Pokemon Stadium 2, and Kalos Pokemon League will be your best stage
If a tournament allows you to play on Yoshi's Island, Unova League, Yggdrasil's Altar, and Minecraft World then here's the list of what Steve's best stage will be:
Yoshi's Island will be better for defensive play.
Unova Pokemon League, Yggdrasil's Altar, and Minecraft World will be better for a mixture of both defensive and offensive play.
Hopefully this list is somewhat helpful to someone. Anyways have a good day/night :)
What wools added as it only add dirt, wood, and cobble that can be obtained? Is it dirt like sand?
Wool and sand are basically the replacements for dirt on some stages so it basically has the same properties as dirt. Those properties are just being a weak block that goes away really fast
Dirt, Sand, Wool, and Ice (on the ice climbers map) all fuction the same
You forgot Kalos's rings. They also has Iron as priority, and considering how big the stage is and how steves loves distances, i think that's the best stage for Steve when not playing defensive. Either way Battlefield and final destination would be bad for Steve if weren't due to he using a shovel instead of an axe/pickaxe (Better weapon durability).
Ok steve just released and everyone is time traveling what a time
released 11 hours ago, what are you talking about?
@@n00bslyr i think they mean that they're discovering this so quickly after release.
@@n00bslyr i mean theres already loads of people discovering a thing or two about steve like its really cool I just saw the 0 to death one damn
@@byennbye the 0 to death actually was discovered even before release
@@chocobovonhauske8518 wait what when? and how
on wooden stages it also uses the axe instead of pickaxe, so durabilty might screw you over if you use up tilts a lot for combos etc
Steve’s stagepick strategy is gonna be crazy
@@alexantone5532 i think regular FD has the best materials, it has the standard loot order and you use the shovel to mine (which you don't need for attacks)
BUT you can't farm on thr anvil or tnt
Steve’s stage selection is definitely significant but other characters excel in certain stages as well. For example, Samus players make it extremely difficult to approach them by camping under platforms and using charge shot. People use Kalos against Joker so the grappling hook is more vulnerable. This is just another one of those character stage advantages but for Steve it’s on a higher level.
I love the way you look so in depth on things the way other people don't, and on day one too. You are an invaluable member of this community m2k
another thing to mention with this is that better tools mine faster as well. Stone and Iron tools mine faster than wood tools, so if you upgrade your tools with stone or iron right away, you can also mine faster on stages like PS2. So its not as big a deal that it takes longer to mine on PS2 than the other stages, because you can get your upgraded tools right away and cut that time difference down.
Can someone confirm this, and if so, give the actual speed-up percentage numbers?
@@BukovTervicz Oh wait, sorry, wrong thing lol. I thought you were talking about gold tools, you're talking about mining speeds.
That data hasnt been compiled yet as to what I can tell. It should be available soon though hopefully.
@@eragon78 do you have a website or source you check for where in-detail data and numbers like this are gathered? I refresh the wiki every morning but it's way behind this level of detail
@@BukovTervicz I dont have the exact numbers sorry. I just know from testing a little bit myself, but I didnt do any extensive testing.
So im not sure where to find detailed numbers unless you go into training room and test it frame by frame manually.
All this minecraft steve disrespect is painful, not only does he just add THAT much more uniqueness and versitility to the game, hes also a iconic video game orginial character so he fits right into smash. People say sakurai did it for the memes but for this reason he was bound to come regardless
He fits right in if you want Smash Bros to pander to kids under 12.
@@user-un8jx8yo7z smash is a kids game you know that right
@@user-un8jx8yo7z Oh yeah, I totally forgot Smash Bros is rated E+10. Totally pandering to the kids in the first place.
Isn't dirt and stone needed for TNT? If it is, that's putting him at a huge disadvantage going to metal stages.
I belive they said in the breakdown if the resources are not present it will use the current on in his inventory.. butit applies to tnt.. not sure about rail and minevart
Much like placing blocks, TNT and minecart rails will use iron if you have nothing else available
Of course the downside is that you hold much less iron than you do tier 1's, wood, or stone, and thus you'll burn through it incredibly quickly
@@WhimsicottFanatic Steve is the most complex character and I love it.. I don't even own a switch and I'm hyped to see them in tourneys competitive..
definitely counterpick to lylat when facing steve
Idk dude, minecart and anvil are very strong.
The idea of "taking Lylat Cruise on the go" is hilarious
It's funny how his worst stage is the one where everyone plays on and vice versa.
Something VERY IMPORTANT to know - on different omega/battlefield stages, he still uses different tools. So on Lylat Omega, he still mines it with a pickaxe. This makes him significantly worse on it because in order to get resources, he has to use up his fair/bair uses.
We've got to change the ruleset for battlefield/omega variations because of this lmao
I don't really think we do, at least when Steve isn't included
Aside from the mining perspective, I HATE how Enderman just straight up disappears in Lylat's darkness
This is the best game mechanic analysis I've ever seen. You researched EVERYTHING. Literally exactly what I've been looking for for last 3 days. Thank you sir
I love how you can HEAR the M2K rocking with the proximity to his mic.
Thanks, KotU!
Awesome video, it's appreciated that someone goes through the effort/time to find this information. 👍
The stage list will change but I hope we won’t come to the stupid conclusion of banning Steve... I like this character way too much he’s wacky and entertaining
I don't think folks would call for a ban. Just from seeing how he plays. But I think people will get annoyed by his edge guarding. Smash community can't be trusted though. I could go on about the toxicity of the some in the community but I won't. Asking for nerfs and bans without being willing just learn a matchup.
If you were around when Hero was the latest DLC, you would be surprised... Or not
He won’t be banned at all, lol he’s nowhere near as broken as people made him out to be. Rush down and zoners make him suffer way too much.
IDK, man. The thing about Steve is that he can create his own platforms off-stage to get back their double jump, and they can create their own ceiling so they die later vertically. This means that stages with ceilings (like the ARMS stage partial ceiling) or stages with platforms off stage (like the Yoshi's Wooly World one, i think it was?) are now back into consideration. JUST BECAUSE OF STEVE'S MECHANIC.
Knowing how narrow-minded the competitive smash community is, i don't consider out of the realm of possibilities that they ban Steve completely. But, like with Hero, it will probably depend on how it performs in tourneys. A.K.A if the top players feel threatened by the new char.
@@lunarohmus for the competitive scene they don't even play on either of those stages. And yeah he can make himself a platform. there is a limit on where he can build he blocks. On higher parts of stages it won't let me build blocks. And up specials with hit boxes just go right through his blocks.
I think like the idea of things changing for the competitive scene..stage choices actually manner now well when it comes to Steve. So it's a good thing in my opinion.
This is the most M2K way of saying "Your mining is based off of material, unless you're on the bf/fd's"
Speaking of stage lists, Minecraft World hazardless is legal, yes?
Maybe. I heard some complaints that it’s too big which could be an issue considering how many big stages are already on the list, but I think some forms could be legal
The platforms vary depending on the biome so idk
Well you can chose the layout with the button inputs, so the rng of which biome you get isn't an argument here. Also if they just add stages like the fe one and wario ware, then I think people would also have no argument. Basically the competitive community should stop being stingy and add a stage with an interesting platform layout while adding smaller stages to balance this out.
@@heroinhero facts, as much as I dislike warioware we quite literally need it to make the stage list more balanced
Hitting your opponent off stage then placing a TNT at ledge, and then simultaneously using that TNT to not only exert ledge pressure, but also mining it for improved resource rates sounds SO GOOD
I like that your rocking back and forth. I do that smtimes
It's crazy to me that any tourney-legal stage would end up not having a grid where, for example, blocks attach to ledges
Steve's blocks are cubes with 1m sides, maybe PS2 is an odd size like 20.8 meters or something, so they have to either make the grid lopsided or leave 0.4m on each side.
Steve break the legal stage list just by existing
I mean considering that 4 out of the 6 versions of his stage with hazards off since it doesn't have any blocks could be considered as tournament legal it's going to be interesting. And YES without hazards on all the blocks just don't appear so you are left with just the platforms.
Perhaps this has been asked and answered before, but after screwing around with Steve last night, I'm wondering how the game registers the crafting table, because there are times when I'm standing right on top of it and I still mine. Am I missing something?
It seems you only craft when you have the materials to do so.
@@Rat_the_Renegade that's what I had figured after M2K mentioned that the iron you spawn with can't be used for a weapon right away. Felt like it wasn't working even once I had gold though. Maybe I just need a bit mkre practice with Steve though, he's hardly been out for 12 hours after all lol
@@hellothisismufin I mean, Sakurai stated that you need 4 of a Material to make the weapons. Also said that Gold & Diamond would Flash when able to be used for crafting.
@@hellothisismufin Well I've also noticed times where I let go of B to stop mining and press it again while next to a crafting table and it doesn't craft but mines again so it might be a thing where you can't go from one to the other to quickly.
@@eclipse9727 I had forgotten about that actually, thank you for the reminder
Really disappointed his death cry isn't "Oof!"
This ain't Roblox cheif
@@twofacedslimeball roblox is ooh, minecraft is oof. Fight me
@@twofacedslimeball The death cry is very similar. I mean the Minecraft version, of course.
@@twofacedslimeball steve used to grunt when he got hurt
Nice, I love early meta updates
POV: Esam's older cousin explains to you why Minecraft Steve is going to change the legal stage list for Smash Ultimate.
If you turn off stage hazards doesn’t Steve’s mining just become a pattern no matter what surface you’re on?
No, it still depends on stage
only the blocks visual changes
Anybody else think we don’t deserve m2k? Love your corks and dedication. Keep the vids up my man!
I am witnessing M2K talk about Minecraft Steve in the context of smash. Today is a good day.
This was a SUPER interesting video! Thanks alot M2K!
Something to note: depending on the material can make Steve not be able to use certain moves to the strongest potential like if you mine wood and your axe breaks you can’t do up air up tilt combos.
Green Greens and Fountain of Dreams both have different resources on stage and on platforms. They both have dirt on stage and green greens has wood on platforms while FoD has stone on platforms. It would be interesting if these differences from Steve's inclusion alone could bring back these stages, if only in some tournaments or specific scenarios.
Additionally, hazards off Minecraft World would make a fantastic legal stage seeing as it's perfectly flat and has platform variations.
Mew2King is so knowledgeable this is great stuff keep it up
I know what Mewtwo King is saying about the stages, but Sakurai said that every stage is now mapped like the Minecraft stage. It means, “You can get dirt, wood, and stone, on the right side of the map”. This somewhat counter-plays his claim of not being wood & dirt efficient the stage can be(like lylat)
I don't think I've seen M2K this excited about a character in forever lol
Stages are made of different things, so for some parts or whole stages Steve uses either pickaxe, axe or shovel, shovel being the fastest because it's used for softer materials, and pickaxe being the slowest, being used for harder materials
I don't think this really ruins anything. IMO this just makes variation and strategy with stage picking more complex, but more interesting. Knowing that your opponent has a Steve up their sleeve makes for a lot more strategy with how you compete against them.
It's not like Steve has an infinite, because his 0-to-death is not even that reliable due to SDI.
I still wonder if sand falls , I thought sand mined becomes dirt, but in Yoshi's island, wool mined stays wool and is placed as wool !
Sand doesn't fall
Steve's ability to place blocks midair and disconnected from the ground already makes the block placing mechanic one which does not strictly follow minecraft rules, and its definitely for the better. The mechanic would be pretty useless if it followed said rules.
@@turbonerdo6838 I like to think that Steve places the blocks against the screen, the screen being an invisible wall of barrier blocks lol
Nope. Seems like it act like sandstone
@@thefaithtrio2106 it acts like dirt,
Turns out sand and wool and ice (yes, you can mine and place wool and ice in some stages !) in smash are just skins for dirt (durability) but they have different sound effects
This seems to combine well with Grimr's discovery where you insta break shields with anvil. You have time to mine it, finish your opponent and start mining first half of TNT duration before opponent can pressure again with next stock. You maybe even have time to craft the diamond tool as well before opponent can pressure.
Just realize that this only really applies to when you're fighting or playing as Steve.
Obviously the current stage lists will be fine in any other situation, and we'll probably see some use out of the minecraft stage in terms of new stage picks, some of those platform positions are really nice.
M2K's character analysis is a godsend haha.
I've been using Steve on the tournament stage list and have had little issue getting the materials needed.
I don't see any of the competitive stages making it hard to use him.
I love how m2k still wrights notes for characters
Look at us, discussing the frame data of Steve
I can't tell if this is the best or the worst timeline
The Bernie Sanders timeline had Smashcraft Steve too, AND everyone got a puppy
@@BukovTervicz Yeah, but that timeline, much like the success of communism, doesn't exist.
There always seems to be some big "New character is breaking everything" and then it turns out fine. lol
Steve are gonna be doing research papers on where to go.
Mew2: mines tnt
me a minecraft player: huh
something else to note is that the stage also dictates which tool is used for mining:
like FD uses a shovel for mining, while battlefield and small battlefield use a pickaxe, meaning that on FD you are less likely to be caught without a pickaxe for your fairs and bairs where on battlefield you'll need to pay attention to your pickaxe durability a bit more.
plus upgrading your tools increases mining speed, allowing you to gather resources at a faster rate than initially available which makes the slower mining speed on stages like PS2 less of a problem since you can immediately upgrade your mining speed to stone or iron.
side note: gold tools are definitely worthwhile to make before diamonds since they have a faster mining rate than any other material and increase tool attack speed making it much harder to stop you from gathering diamonds.
they might break easily but you almost always have a diamond before that with how fast they can mine.
1:21 “You start over at square one.” HA! Get it? It’s like a Minecraft Easter egg pun
Good information in this video, a lot that I knew a lot that I didn't. Interesting that you didn't mention the different tools to mine on each stage. Town and smashville both use an axe which makes it difficult to cycle your materials around because of utilt and uair being great combo moves. Lylat, PS2 and the battlefields use pickaxes which isn't as annoying to cycle around but is still irritating as you may want to save your diamonds for the next stock but run out of usage. Finally, FD uses a shovel which isn't used in any moves, making it the best tool for mining since it doesn't cut into the usage of your other moves and doesn't cost your other moves in order to continue mining.
The best stage that is the most advantage of him is something that can be mined with a shovel. Considering the fact that he does not have any use for shovel in combat, making the other tools to be more focus to their durability on combat more than mining.
Guys the yoshis story cloud gives steve iron on the first one
Which stage that is not legal is the best for Steve?
Well.. did ya try the ff7 stage? Now that is crazy
M2K is a national treasure
From playing on stages i also learned that on Great Cave Offensive if you go to the Crystal looking part of the map, the floors and walls there drop ALOT of iron, and get diamond often
I love that M2K is so into labbing Steve 😁
Counterpicking as or against Steve is like onions: it has layers
Everyone cries when a new character comes I love it
something important is what item steve uses to mine. T&C its the axe while battlefield its the pickaxe, others it's a shovel (which isn't part of his attacking move set) what im saying is that it could matter what weapon you lose durability for mining.
M2K = god incarnate
haven't seen anyone talk about this anywhere but even on omega stages the material changes which tool you use and that affects how long your pickaxe lasts, shovel stages are the best for steve
This man is a genius.
I really dont understand why it matters if steve has better RNG on certain stages. Are you saying other characters don't have advantages on certain stages over others? Because they all certainly do O_o
This kinda stuff and how he talks about things is why m2k has been my favorite player since the brawl days when I started playing
Wood is better than dirt, except for specific setups where you want the blocks to break quicker (anvil shield break)
Imagine Steve being the first one to be banned fr
You mine whatever the stage is made out of. It makes sense.
how should i manage my iron with steve? im always out so fast
Don't go for many down air.
Done.
Don’t spend iron on weapons. Mine until you get gold and only use iron for minecart to prevent opponents from approaching. Once you have a lot of iron and diamond you can spam more iron moves since you’re basically stacked
Time to gain Steve knowledge.
THIS, is so much better understanding I would of been dying(loosing GSP like crazy)
The only Neutral stage that's a significant change for Steve is PS2/Kalos, which should be replaced with Small Battlefield, which has similar platform layout anyway.
He's only been out for a few hours and you discovered all this
Also a thing I thought of today is that in some stages you only use your shovel to mine and then you wont break your pickaxe as fast as on other stages when you use your pickaxe to mine
This man is playing Stella Glow's 2nd World Map track in the background near the end of the video!
16:55 I don't think they missed it actually. They clearly did care about the grid because every single stage seems to let blocks be placed parallel with the main floor of the stage. That's why there's no weird height offset on perfectly flat stages. Even PS2 you can see it lines up vertically with the stage. The reason PS2 doesn't let you cleanly block horizontally to stage is because the grid is symmetrical. It would be weird for blocks to be lined up on the left ledge of PS2, but not the right ledge. It's a symmetrical stage. They likely line up vertically with the stage first, then get the middle x coordinate of the whole level and space blocks out from there. PS2's stage length just so happens to not play nicely with the width of a Steve block, and so you get that little gap.
getting more wood and less dirt is amazing! been experimenting with uptilt ladder combos and a block uptilt upsmash finisher is only possible if you place a wood or better block, dirt doesnt give you enough time to uptilt and then channel the whole upsmash. In fact I have to waste the dirt around to set up these 0-70/80s with block extensions, T&C would make it much faster to set up lol
Dirt is disabled on smashville. The material is the "Wood" roll instead of the "All" roll.
Is that some FF tactic Ost I hear in the background ?
it is ^^
Honestly the fact that he could ruin the stage list completely is prob my fav part about him
YESSS!!! RUIN THE STAGE LIST!!! GIVE US MORE STAGES!!!!! PLEASE!!!!
I would have to guess that they'll continue to tweak the grid in future updates to fix the ledge differences.
Also on yoshis hw uses shovel which (i think) isn't used for any attacks so you can mine as much as you want without worrying about weapons breaking
Steve’s best stage is Kalos. This is his best stage because as shown in the video he gets cobblestone then iron or whatever. But if you didn’t know, if you mine the edge of the stage the white area it is the same as lylat, anvil and tnt you get iron more and diamond quicker. If you don’t believe me try it
I think you missed an important factor.
I haven't watched through all the way yet, but when you went over town you didn't discuss tools. Your axe breaks when farming wood stages-- that means your fair stays proficient but your uair gets weaker faster on some stages. That matters competitively since uair is integral to racking up damage
Basically, you would prefer stages where you use a shovel. Using an axe will hinder your juggles, using a pickaxe will hinder your edgeguards, and using a shovel will ruin nothing.
@@N12015 does a dirt stage exist?
@@N12015 legal*
12:35 wait, what happens if you start the dig cycle on metal source (stage tile or your own tnt or w/e), but then farm a different tile type, and then even go back to farming on the metal source again?
Is it 2 different cycles? Does it keep track of where you are in each separately? Does it merge them somehow? Does it (god forbid) restart the cycle (as if you died) every time you change source types?
Notice that on town Steve uses axe, so when it breaks, you lose up air.