Top 5 Guitar Setup Mistakes
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- Опубліковано 8 жов 2023
- The Top 5 Guitar Setup Mistakes. Here are some of the tools you need
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Dylan Talks Tone Recieves Commision From Some Of These Links
Dylan's Order of Operations:
1. Neck relief
2. Nut height
3. String height
4. Intonation
5. Pickup adjustment
Edit: You can remember it because it's "PISNN" backwards.
I check the nut height when I buy it, so I never have to check it again. Once I set up a guitar, I only have to adjust the truss rod, twice a year, because of where I live.
I love PISNN
For obvious reasons pickup height should be set before intonation.
I was looking for something to remember his instructions, this is perfect!
I couldn't memorize it and it was PISNN me off!
You can definitely run out of intonation/saddle adjustment on some tuneomatics. I've seen it several times over the years. Even flipping the saddle won't give you enough sometimes.
no doubt
Unfortunately yes
I find that the usual cause of this is pitch angle at the neck joint. Throws everything out of whack. Had the issue on two different Gibsons. One was an R8 from 2008, the other was from an SG standard from 2014. They had this issue from the factory.
@@erickmo1188underrated issue and Gibson guitars seem to be especially prone to this angle being variable and you are right, it makes a huge difference to set ups.
use different size strings
I know I skipped the neck relief for years because I was brainwashed to think simply taking the truss rod cover off and thinking about turning the nut would explode my neck into splinters.
After watching the stewmac video where they bend the neck as they turn the truss rod made me rethink neck durability haha.
Also, setup is so dependentant on the style of player you are as well as the guitar. Strings almost touching the frets on my Ibanez with a straight neck; and a bit more relief on my epis.
One last thing I do for every new guitar is pickup height. They're usually way too close from factory and kill my pick dynamics.
Yeah this is essential reading for guitarists.
Great work, Dylan.
The first step is to sight your neck and make sure it's not crooked! Look down from the headstock and check the nut against the bridge. If they line up across side to side, you're good. I've noticed when they're not perfectly straight, it's usually the fat E string side is a little high, but they can go the other way also.
Thanks for putting this in perspective.
Perfectly explained, Dylan! 👍🏼👌🏼
You started a guitar setup course and it was really good! I can't wait for the remaining lessons! Great info here.
A really good approach/mindset when setting up guitars -- thanks
Another GREAT episode!
Literally loving learning about this stuff from you, man .. I've got a collection of about 20 guitars and I'm planning to start doing my own maintenance, setup, etc .. Between yourself and a couple of other channels, I'm learning so much and it's taking my anxiety WAAAAAAY down as I approach this task (one guitar at a time) .. When I get to the Telecaster I'm also looking forward to modding it and ordering the mini humbucker for the neck which I believe I saw in one of your videos ..
Looking at a set up holistically is something I've never heard anyone mention, that I'm aware, at least. It makes a ton of sense. Thanks Dylan
Great video. Tks.
Thanks for this, been trying to setup my Squire Vibe Mustang to a lower tuning and this may help big time 😄
Also, bolt-on necks are a huge issue regarding setup. Shims and neck angle need to correct before you can handle the others.
To have to reset a set neck is even worse 😁
dud! I never thought it thru. makes sense when you hear it like that. thanks, really good info,Rock on !
Great information!!
The advice to feel the guitar is like to use your years for getting tone. It does not work until you get experience. Until you are reach a certain level, you need reference, in both measurements and in tone.
A tutorial on string height would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!
String height is simple it will be different for every guitar though. I lower my action till it buzzes then raise it till it doesn’t.
It depends how good your neck is.
If the bridge is not parallel to the strings, and you change the string length, you need to compensate the saddle height a bit too.
This is probably beyond “setup”, but one mistake I almost made involved fret leveling. After (and before) a complete setup, I had a couple buzzing frets, and found the culprits. I was preparing to sand/file the high frets and THEN realized that the frets were actually lifting from the fretboard. A little Starbond super glue and clamps got the frets back to their correct height, and no sanding or filing was required. If I had filed those high frets before reseating them, I would have screwed it all up.
I’ve always followed the acronym TRAIN which is pretty much the same thing that Dylan has just outlined. Tuning relief, action, intonation, and then noodle on the guitar and see how it feels.
Nice, clear explanation. Nice sampling of your guitar collection, too! I’ll take the yellow DC JR, please. What make/model is that?
Ok so I'm new here. Been playing since I was 5 years old (now 60) and working on them since I was about 15. Have my own workshop (The Little Shop Of Guitar Horrors) and do a lot of work for friends. I just stumbled on Dylan's UA-cam channel by chance a few days ago and have probably watched at least a dozen episodes so far, and then this one. All I can say is "YES! You are CORRECT"!! And esp. point #1. Anyway, great work and info, look forward to seeing more. - Jeff
A few others have already commented, but I have DEFINITELY had to flip the saddle over on a Tune-O-Matic style bridge to get the low E or high E to intonate. Sometimes I've seen it even affect the A string. Usually when I see this it is because the bridge has been installed (from the factory) at an incorrect angle, but most of the time it can be fixed by simply flipping the misaligned saddles over. That said, I've NEVER see this on a strat-style 6-saddle bridge or even a floyd, so I think it's mainly due to improper installation of the tune-o-matic style bridges. Generally speaking, though, if the bridge has a slight angle/offset in the right direction (this can be seen by viewing if the low-e side of the bridge is further away from the bridge pickup/mounting ring than the high-e side of the bridge, assuming the bridge pickup bobbins themselves are not angled and are perfectly perpendicular to the strings) it's usually fine as that angle allows for the saddles to end up in the middle-ish of their adjustment range when properly set.
I've been fortunate enough to not see it so bad that the bridge needs to be reinstalled (wood glue + dowels, re-drilling) but as Dylan has said about 10,000 times in this video: before you do anything drastic, go back to Step 1! Order of operations is important, and when you get to the point of thinking you need to do serious modifications to your instrument make sure to check your own process! Drilling holes, removing material from frets, or any other permanent modification to your axe is a LAST RESORT.
Play on! \m/
Good vid 👍 Do you have a video on nut height?
You mean I’m not supposed to put the ball ends on tuners and then use 6 pairs of needle nose pliers gripping the strings at the ferrules and then hammer the pliers into the body?
You are supposed to use nails to fasten the strings to the guitar body!
You guys are missing the whole point ....... RobbieF has part of it right but, you first have to make sure you have nailed the string to the post on your front porch and go from there. :)
for me, the criteria that differentiates a good guitar from a bad guitar has become if the nut / 1st fret tune can pan out in reality....same as intonation landing within the saddles range.
but that can be tweaked in ...or you can turn a bad guitar, ( that way ) into a good guitar, with a file from stew-mac....it's just tweaking off some of the fret board end, need be....if it is not in tune when you get to minimum height, take some off until it comes in.
Great video thank you very much. What is that fantastic looking Double Cut "tele".? What is the top finish, so cool? Cheers
I never measure my string action. I adjust until it feels good playing that guitar. I’m sure I’ve got guitars w higher and lower action, but they all feel good to me. Similar w strings and tuning. It takes me a while to settle on what strings and tuning I like best with each instrument
Awesome vid Dylan.. You da man of reason.. lol..
Man! Sometimes a thumbnail like that makes my skin crawl - power tool next to a brand new (and unscratched) guitar. wooo!
And the guitar's not even on the bench!
I’ve made string gauge changes where I didn’t need any adjustments
At most the intonation needs a tweak, and the other things don’t
But I rarely change gauges
And when I have it was small adjustment.
But that can vary guitar to guitar, and climate and stuff
one thing about the range of adjustability. Sometimes you do run into limitations with intonation/relief when taken to extremes.
For instance, if you want a low C on a 25.5'' strat with adequate tension, you may not have enough room to get that low C intonated, and may need to get a special short saddle.
If you have a traditional bass guitar neck with a regular truss rod and no reinforcement, heavy gauge la bella flat wounds may pull your neck into so much relief that you literally can't straighten it.
So I think your comment about "if you run out of adjustability, there is a problem elsewhere in the setup" is true most of the time, but when it comes to extreme tension/low tunings etc, it doesn't necessarily apply.
hey Dylan. after your video about screwing pickup with a magnet over it, I started to wonder if I should use ebow at all? please let me know if it could possibly damage the pickups/ since on a strat I can't really get the ebow out of the way of the pickups unless I use it over fingerboard which is not very handy
I recently got a used Fender Vintera Telecaster Deluxe. To get the action down where I like it, I ended up lowering the string saddles way down...like, obviously too far down. Where did I screw up?😂
Killer Tone
Thank you so much for how amazingly clear this was. I still wish I knew a little better what to look out for in all the steps. I always obsess over the "wrong" thing for like a week or so. I went a little (more) nuts when I ran out of saddle a few months ago. **Spoiler** I was so dumb / naive, that what I did "wrong", literally broke the bridge.
So It turns out a jump from 0.56 6th string down to a 0.84 on the 7th string kinda effs up everything. 🤠 In my defence it was a LOT of fun wit a SD Nazgul in there,,, while it lasted. Even tuned down an octave from the low E the pure mass of the string was just too much. It actually pulled the bass side bridge post out eventually ... 🤘🤓 rock n roll! Uh. Twice! Yeah that's not rock n roll ,, thats just rubbish... I guess I assumed that tension had the most affect on intonation so I didn't figure it out until after the POP! The 1st fix was pretty good but the inlayed oak must have ripped the poor little Ibanez GIO apart. I think it was actually water damaged previously so not as ridiculous as it sounds. Weakened, cheapo (no tone) wood, but a fun story about "running out of saddle" . Idiot! 🤦♂
If you'd only posted this sooner maybe Vera would still be with us ,, ok I'm gonna blame you till she's fixed lol. Hey @DylanTalksTone (or anyone lol) Wanna swap some pups ? I got spares lmao 😁🤣🤷♂
One thing I didn’t see anyone mention is to first change your strings. If they are dead, ain’t nothing gonna fix that!!!
Your guitars really sound good! P90 or humbuckers!
Probably seems silly, but the thing I encounter the most (in terms of things I get on the bench that are “setup”), is folks not accounting for the radius in their string height. Just a little something specific I’d add to the string height, arguably pickup height convo, but great vid nonetheless. :) Probably just me focusing to much on the numbers side of it, though. ;)
This is all good advice but especially the part about not getting hung up on having particular measurements on all your guitars. I hear a lot of people that talk about particular measurements. Don't tell the guitar what measurements it should be set to, let the guitar tell you what the measurements should be. They're all unique.
Why can't I stop thinking about Pepto Bismol while watching this?
I think one is don't leave the strings on too long/do it with new strings.
I’ve always been told to do the intonation very last because the pickup hight can change it
Pickup hight does not affect the acoustic set up, unless you have the pickups way to high that you have string pull..
Thanks! 👍🏻👌🏻🤝🏻☀️✨🍀🙌🏻
I'm worried about what height to set the strings at the nut. Like what height to cut the nut to.
Doesn't pickup height affect intonation?
Some people say that a three saddle bridge will go on perfectly on the new Player Tele. Some say it won't.....Has anyone done the Mod?? My current cheap Tele came with brass compensated saddles. That's the look I want.
Got a Wilkinson bridge with compensated saddles for my 2021 Player Tele, had no issues with it.
Dylan…these necks that have graphite rods or some kinda reinforcement rods in them…why would they ever have to be adjusted?…how could the truss rod even move the neck?…am I missing something??
My new acoustic seems to buzz a bit at the top strings and don't know if that's the nut, but little chance that's addressed here talkin' 'bout 'lectrics?
Maybe it's neck relief adjustment, then.
So beautifully put every guitar will not be the same each 1 has its own generalized build where they have their own character and you have to tweak it to its ability a lot of people charge to push past what it is able to do
I'd like to know more about why you set your necks straight.
Anyone know of a guitar and brand that you can set the action nice and low. The physics surrounding some guitars prevent low action, such as 24" is said to not able to be set as low as longer scales. I have also learned that 24 fret guitars sometimes can't be set low because the string has to clear all 24 frets. I really want to find a guitar that can play like butter.
A shorter scale lowers tension on the strings, that’s why you get more buzzing; to solve the problem you have to get bigger strings (the size of the string still affects the action to be slightly higher but we’re talking tenths of millimeters). In regards to 24 frets vs 22, as long as the frets are level there isn’t much of a difference as far as i know; ofc though since the string action raises towards the 24th fret, the action there would be the highest.
If you’re afraid of buzzing get your frets leveled by an expert luthier, and if you’re reaally afraid, you can get them leveled mechanically with a plek machine; just make sure the technician knows how to use it and you’ll get the smoothest feeling neck experience in my opinion. I hope this helps :D
Personally I also suggest a satin neck. My hands sweat a lot, satin necks help me with sliding smoothly across the neck of the guitar, fingerless gloves could be an alternative but i feel like they slow you down a little.
@@DIM00252 Thank you. I had frets leveled and even high frets tapered by master luthier and he mentioned how 24 frets can be trickier to clear. I believe that is how he explained it. I hear PRS guitars can get some low action or guitars with a zero fret.
The so called “fall off“ of the frets beyond the 12-th or 13-th fret does the magic of very low action.
1. First you need a almost straight neck with only 0,2 mm relief measured on the 8. fret measured with capo at 2. and fretted 19-th. Basically use the strings as a straight edge for measuring. I don’t fret the first fret and the last one because they are usually less played and therefore the highest of all.
2. The nut cut as low for paper thin clearance at first fret if you fret on the third. A business card is 0,15-0,2mm thick.
3. Then last thing: the fall off. Means the frets above the 13-th will get a levelling at a very subtle angle to have the last frets lower as 1 to 12. Therefore you (or the luthier) tape the frets below 12, and the 12-th with double or tripple layer of masking tape. If you level the frets beyond 12. resting the levelling beam on the taped 12., with little more pressure on the last frets, you get them lower as 1 to 12 with clearance at a shallow angle towards the last one. I do it like this and lower the frets from 14-th to the last one. The levelling beam rests on the taped 12-th and does not touch the 13-th. Do it careful, not overdue it, or intonation problems could appear.
4. Set the action, by adjusting the saddles, for 1,2mm on E and 1,0mm on e height on 12. fret. Test it and raise as you need for buzz free playing. Then check neck relief again. For fine tuning of string action go back and forth between neckrelief and saddle height for micro tuning.
5. Now it‘s time for intonation. First saddle to work on is high e positioned by doubling distance of nut to far edge of the 12-th fret + add 1,2 mm. That‘s a perfect starting point for only micro adjustments on e. Then for next saddles intonation, move saddles in a double staircase pattern (e to G and D to E) with a difference of 1,2mm back from saddle to next saddle. Saddle of B and G are at same level.
😊
My lowest action is 1,1 mm at E and 0,9mm high e (with slight buzzing, on a Ibanez Gio and my 24 fret korean B C Rich mockingbird). But I prefer 1,4mm at E and 1,1-1,2mm at e.☺️
thank you! you taught me something new@@lone-wolf-1
When should you adjust springs (in S style guitars) in the process?
I would do it after the neck check / adjustment....
Yes, like bobdelair said above. After neck relief and nut slots cut at right depth, and before string action on the saddles. You might need to go back to the springs after saddle height adjustment, because it affects tension on the springs.
Do you set neck relief with strings on or off?
If you take the strings off the neck is going to move and then move back when you put them back on. It's not much but if you want to get it as good as possible you should probably leave the strings on.
???Don't know if u know about bass setups. My brother just purchased an 80s aria pro. . He only uses roto sound strings. Allways has some buzz towards bridge no matter what I do. Any thoughts????
Sell it
@@jubyerhashin8214😂
Stay below the 10th fret like bass players should. Always stepping in my frequencies.
Dylan , my question is this .. 2 different guitars set up roughly the same , strings , tuning , scale length , the measurements are not all that different in set up , millimeter here an there , few thousandths of a inch here and there... Why does one feel more slinky than the other ? or one always feels like the strings are stiffer then the other... The frets are just a little taller , barely ,on the stiffer feeling guitar , one has a flood Floyd Rose , one does not , Is it just the little extra string length that is not locked down above the nut ??
.002 is the thickness of a piece of paper or a hair
Hello Dylan can you please focus on neck relief in your next video? I'm really struggling to find a correct measurement
I suggest to try to go for 0,2 mm relief measured on the 8. or 9-th fret with capo at 2. and fretted 19-th. A business card is around 0,15-0,2 mm thick. And basically use the strings as a straight edge for measuring. Don’t fret the first fret and the last one because they are usually less played and therefore the highest of all. After truss rod adjustment „massage“ the neck in the direction of adjustment to help accommodate faster. Cheers!😊
but the main problem i have is that i like to run more even tension, and the packs of string sets available are all off, compared to my pick of singles i like to run.
i mean do i just set up for the closest pack of strings, and get it over with? ... or do i risk not being able to get new strings when i need them?
Order from Stringjoy. They will make you whatever you want.
@@DylanTalksTone Thank You for the tip....but then i always have to keep packs on hand, and can't just hit the nearest shop .... do their packs keep well ?
looking into it anyway.....i took a screenshot of my stringjoy calculator worksheet , ( doing electronics, broke at the moment ), but 0.0125", 0.017", 0,022p, 0.032w, 0.044w, 0.058w all come out between 19.7 and 21.6 pounds...that's only 1.9 pounds maximum difference, and i can't remember now, but that is probably better???
@@DylanTalksTone they don't make a 0.033w that''s my 4th string B ... i run C# standard tune 0.058" to 0.012"....well, maybe i screwed up before, they have a string tension calculator i am working back through now.....i am working on my electronics right now, but i took a screen shot of the Strigjoy
@@DylanTalksTone think different manufacturers gauges tune to different tensions or something, i was running the NY XL Steels at 0.012, 0.017, 0.022p, 0.033w, 0.047w, 0.065w and that is a fairly balanced bottom tight set.....i think i am going to stick with that set...i like it.....doing the electronics right now, it's my only guitar, and it's been down for awhile for that.
@@DylanTalksTone i have a lot of re-work to do....my frets are pitting.
Great guitar insights, #6, Do not wear HUGE bracelets on a nice finish guitar.
Why not? I don’t hit the guitar w it so…
What’s going on when strings are intonated butch string is out in some places?
frets?
Thanks, I took the strings off and took a good look at the frets and do indeed have some wear . @@curtrod
Pole heights
Just to add. If you like high action. You will always have intonation problems.
TRAIN Truss rod. Raise Action. Intonate.
Tune
Relief
Action
Intonation
Nut Height
However....after being more comfortable with Nut height Adjustment is see the benefits of looking at it earlier if it is really high
@@donclemento4452 That would be a different order to what Dylan is saying, in terms of nut height.
Best results are with TRNAI!
Tune, relief, nut, action, intonation.😊(what Dylon said)
Give that neck time to acclimate!!!
Question: Does pickup height effect intonation because of the magnetic pull?