Are SPEAKERS the BEST Amp Mod?
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- Опубліковано 18 гру 2024
- For my Presets visit: johnnathancord... The Fender Princeton 65 Reissue comes stock with a Jensen C10 speaker. I was enjoying it for clean tones, but when I put some of my drive pedals in front of it, things got a little bit raspy - a little brittle in the high end maybe. I decided to try a Celestion Gold in it instead. Here are the results, and it got me thinking - as far as mods go, surely swapping a speaker for £60, in 15 minutes, must be the most cost effective and impactful (BEST) amp mod you can do, and it's completely reversible
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/ johnnathancordy - backing tracks here!
I've always held the view that Amp builders probably pick a speaker that works well with an amp, and as a result, changing out speakers on amps was probably a little bit of a rabbit hole that may or may not be necessary. Of course, my experimentations with modellers have led me to the conclusion that essentially a speaker is a big EQ at the end of your signal chain, and one of the most powerful tone shaping components...So when I was disappointed to find that the stock Jensen speaker in the Princeton sounds...Well...Kinda raspy - I figured it was time to order a Celestion Gold!
www.buymeacoff... - if you like what I do and
only if you wanted, you could buy me a coffee!
/ johnnathancordy - backing tracks here!
Yup, I see the sensitivity of the Celestion is 98 dB while the Jensen is 93.5 dB (@ 1 W @ 1 m). Doubling the amp wattage gets you +3 dB SPL, so you'd be driving the amp at different levels to get the same SPL with each speaker, which also ends up impacting the tonality you get with each speaker a bit.
The gold has more mids and is creamier / warmer overall, my favorite tones! Love it
To prevent that spikey sound from overdrives with the standard speaker, you can also put a Strymon Deco at the end of the pedal chain. That is highly recommended to conjure up a more vintage clean sound from the beautiful princeton.
Night and day for sure love the thickness and warmth to your tone that the Gold brings while still retaining that Fender sparkle.
Whoa it's a pretty big difference when you started comparing them back to back! It almost sounds like the C10 is a "full range" speaker, it's definitely letting more upper treble through but there is a difference in the midrange character between the two as well. It is hard not to say "The C10 is the digital modeler and the Gold is the tube amp."! :)
I do hear an improvement, so that's good. It's always a gamble whether it's going to be an improvement or not. Did you see the Andertons video where Pete and Lee swapped out like 8 different Celestion speakers in a Katana amp? Most of them sounded different, but none of them really improved the sound.
Sort of wondered if half the issue with that vid was using a Katana - it's a decent amp, but its designed specifically to be able to imitate multiple styles of tone. Its not quite the same as taking an amp with a single, distinct voicing and altering that as any sounds have most likely been customised to sound as good as possible bearing in mind the compromise of speaker choice (plus the models will have been tweaked to cut/boost certain frequencies to match the stock speakers compromises).
@@NFMorley I think you might be right. They said they would make another video like it but with the Fender Hot Rod Deluxe, that will definitely be a better amp to test speakers with.
Its a KATANA lol
The Celestion is louder because it's more efficient (higher sensitivity). The Jensen C10 is quite inefficient at 93.6 dB, while the G10 is 98 dB. What that means is that 1W of power produces 93.6 db through the Jensen, and 98dB through the Celestion at 1m distance. We perceive a 6dB increase in volume as twice as loud so the Celestion should be nearly twice as loud along the settings.
Doubling the power increases the dB +3, for example:
1w = 93.6/98 dB
2w = 96.6/101 dB
4w = 99.9/104 dB
8w = 102.9/107 dB
Hope this helps.
Super helpful!!
Niiice ! That was really interesting actually to hear your thoughts about such a swap, your feelings as a player and how you felt in the moment. I love the fact that "it wasn't particularly scientific", honestly in lots of speaker swapping videos/demos, I definitely don't see the point on deeply listening to how different it sounds mic'ed up exactly the same and everything. Cause at the end it never quite reflects how different it sounds in the room, or feel under the fingers ? And that's what I'm personally looking for in these videos : your emotional journey. Anyway, thank you for this very intuitive video, hoping you'll go further with these swapping experiments in the future cause I really see that as an interesting subject. Also can't wait to hear about the "slightly more exciting" amp (?) coming up ;)
PS : thank you for the great laugh at 4:58...my cheeks hurt, seriously ahahaha "that was close"
@@JohanJoosLaur could have been disastrous!!!
I did keep the mic, amp, settings etc all the same so it should reflect fairly well what the change was.
After moving the amp downstairs and playing more, I'm even more convinced it was the right decision!
@@johnnathancordy Yeah I know you did aha...just wanted to say it wasn't mainly about that though and I liked the way you talked about how it felt to you in the moment more than just comparing A/B takes and that's it, you know ;) When you heard the different takes after filming and eveything, were you surprised ? Is it really representative to the difference you felt in the room and under the fingers or not really ?
@@johnnathancordy Oh crap I didn't see the last sentence here. Great news then !! Have to change little Momo's one too...aha
@@JohanJoosLaur it's more pronounced than I remembered in the moment. Listening back I thought the Jensen sounded pretty gross!
£60?! Celestion Golds cost at least £175. Pray tell where you picked up such an insane deal?
As rabbit holes go, this one always seemed to me worth burrowing into as opposed to others (preamp tube brands, for instance, though maybe I just lack an ear for that). Aside from brand (ie, Eminence vs Celestion), size also makes quite a meaningful impact, and bumping up from 10" to 12" in Princetons is not uncommon. But I reckon many of the opinions on this stuff on forums comes from people playing in a more or less solo guitar setting, and speakers primed for that with heavier bass can end up muddy in larger ensembles as opposed to brighter speakers that conversely don't sound as robust when alone.
Ahh- we’ve all been down the preamp and power tube rabbit hole. I switched to a gold on my Vox and did the preamp tube switch to a triode balanced Tung-sol on my practice Vox. The Suhr guitars I play, custom T and Modern are so “chimey” that I had to change speakers to something with more headroom. They respond differently than my PRS etc (read: I’m an old guy so I’ve been buying guitars since the 70s). My amps range from two 100 watt Marshall’s running in stereo down to Vox, Fender & Orange small amps. (wife friendly). Nice review :)
Probly the best.. Im about to order a reverb tank for my JC-120 that ive seen online a way to lush the spring reverb some... A good pot cleaning was the last JC mod i did..lol..
I prefer the Jensen! Sounds right to me, the gold sounds too midrangey for a fender imo
I'm with you Matt. That presence of that Jensen is what defines the Fender Princeton amp tone IMO. But it's all what you're after and the Celestion definitely mellows out the amp, so seems like he accomplished what he was after. But yeah, I definitely liked the original speaker more than the replacement.
great sounds and playing! I actually prefer the sound of jensen! what kind of looper are you using?
Celestion Gold for sure: more lyrical and balanced !! Sweet!! Whats' the overdrive pedal are you using?
I got a JCM800 Combo back in the mid 80's. It had some Celestions in it. It sounded like all the rest of them and I left it that way. About 3 years ago one of the Celestions developed a crack and then some of the cone came apart as if it had dried out. I picked up some Eminence 1258's intending to use them until I could get the Celestions reconed. The amp came to life with the 1258's. I put the Celestions in the box's that the 1258's came in and never looked back. I haven't even considered spending the money one getting the Celestion's reconed given that they were no where near the quality sound as the 1258's. It actually frustrates me knowing I could have changed them out years ago but didn't.
Wonderful! Which pickups are in your strat (If you don’t mind)? Sound great!
the clean does sound ace though.
the Gold definitely has a thick midrange bark which Im not sure I like all that much
Both sound real nice.The Jensen just sounds 'Fender' more, but both are good
Yeh I've been finding that in my Mesa Cali tweed, although I don't like the way that it responds to drive as much, for clean, the Jensen thing seems to do that fender thing a bit better?
@@johnnathancordy Yes indeed these particular Jensen's don't do overdrive so well they are really made for clean I think. Back in the early 50's, pre rock n roll era, that's where this clean electric guitar sound has its roots of course.
I have the 65 RI and it is pretty thin and spikes pretty good and I am leaning towards the gold too. I want to keep the 10” character and this seems to keep it bright but with more balance.
Im really happy with the Ragin Cajun Eminence
John, makes me so glad to see you enjoying your princeton. Thought about putting the exact same speaker in mine. Have you plugged in the princeton to that Captor X yet? Thought about picking one up for silent recording but wasn't sure if it would even work with a princeton.
Hey Chandler! Actually, all the previous videos were with the Captor X if you search my channel for Princeton stuff!
@@johnnathancordy no shit? Buying one right now on sweetwater. Been trying to decide between that or a Boss TAE but I am absolutely in love with the captor's price tag.
The Gold sounds much more “studio friendly” - I made the same switch a while back and switched the preamp tube to a balanced triode Tung-sol, which actually made a slight difference in clarity. Though you really do have to let it Gold break in to find out where it’s going to sit with the signal you are putting into it. Would be nice to hear your thoughts after you played it 3 months. I paid $175 for a new one. At $60- that’s a screaming deal 👍
Gold looper, gold speaker, need a gold watch?
Hi John: to me, the Gold is very nice & chimey for clean tones. When it comes to ODriven tones though, I'd say the Ceramic speaker fits better. My 2 ¢...
Go back to noodling, love that stuff. Hoohah
Hi John! Did you pull out the tubes before replacing the speaker ? Was the jensen speaker glued to the baffle apart from four screws ?
I love your playing brother, (so tasty) but I disagree with you on this one. I Love that glassy pristine blackface clean. I just dial-out some treble on (both) amp and OD to compensate. I'd never give-up that Jensen spanky-clean (but to each his own). oNe LovE from NYC
True Michael! The clean is beautiful!
+++ dear Jonathan, you should get some Infos in case of "Brightcap mod" that is not a big thing just cutting one lag of a cpacitor..... i guess
Found it!!
before listening i d say ,,no doubt //beside noise reduction to point possible ,, but sound will change a lot ,, volume will , but volume is not all // so save old speakers,, nowdays u can get monster power in small speakers//for 10 th of price in 1980 s / the power alone is more important with bass rigs,, guitar wise sound is main trade of speaker you want
Check out a Celestion G10 Vintage. That might be what you are looking for.
What looper do You use? :)
vintage tubes are also a great mod ge's rca's mullards each has it's own tone but they are all better than modern tubes.
Can you do a Robert DeNiro falling down the steps? ;)
The solution is a 12” not a 10”
I swapped mine with an Celestion Alnico 12 cream and wow!
NICE! Did you have to replace the baffle?
@@johnnathancordy not at all
@@LuisHernandez-dy1rq ooh. Interesting!
@@johnnathancordy mine has birch and pine . The burgundy limited edition. I also have Tung Sol power tubes and a lava speaker cable
Try it you will see it will be transformed
PS JUST A THOUGHT ,BECAUSE I AM GENERATION WHO HAD TO MAKE MOST OF OUR GEAR THEMSELVES,and it costed a lot ,, NO 1/ combos got mostly open speaker design /this does ease making but is no great to get best out of speaker /SO IF U WANT OPTIONS/ build or have build suitable closed cabinets for speaker ,NOT ONE,two or 3 ,it is cheap today ,, and use speakers u like in it but leave original in ,, you than got options//1 or box plus original ,,get innovative,, BUT IN SHORT YES MOST UNDER 200/300 EU COMBOS SAVE ON SPEAKERS
Why bother with that amp when you have an overdrive special copy!!!!!!!?????? These speakers need time to break in. Do you still have it and can compare to how it is now?
Gold is better to my ears, especially when overdriven
I thought the same!
Should have put a 12” speaker in it. Then the difference is night and day.
I think the trouble is I'd then need to change the baffle (i think mojotone do one?)
PS LOUDER IS NOT ALWAYS BETTER /LET SAY STUDIO SPEAKERS GOT REALLY LOW EFFITIENCY/mean they sound more silent than other let say hi fi cabinets on same power ,, but sound is much more clinic//not better for party ,, u do not need to hear drumstick or pick touching pickup ,,when partying,, but in mix you do
it is similar with solo guitar speakers,,1 ask what u wany ,,more power or sound change that s 1 thing to do ,,than go from it cabin design beats speaker choice
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There's a huge difference alnico sounds great better than Jensen more balanced otherwise it's a cheap Jensen speaker
I’m early
Celestion immediately sounds better. Jensens are pretty much just junk.