DEBATE: Norm Finkelstein Runs Circles Around Alan Dershowitz On Israel
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- Опубліковано 29 сер 2024
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"The first time I ever really listened to Kyle Kulinski’s show was in the back of a cab last summer. The driver had his phone hooked up through the stereo and was pumping out an episode through the car speakers - loudly, as if looking to convert a captive audience.
“Do you like Kyle Kulinski?”
The driver, Ahmed, was a recent immigrant and apparently a die-hard fan of Secular Talk, the political talk show that Kulinski broadcasts on UA-cam. I told him, yes, in fact. I do like Kulinski, had come across his show several years ago, and, all things considered, he seemed pretty good.
“He understands what we’re up against,” Ahmed said. “Like Bernie.”
But I was surprised to hear Kulinski’s name mentioned in the same breath as Bernie Sanders, particularly with such adoration. Because what I did remember about Kulinski’s show struck me as mostly capital-P “progressive” takes on the news - the left wing of the Netroots crowd more than the democratic socialism Sanders has popularized.
It’s an impression that wasn’t entirely incorrect.
“I have no time for philosophical, airy bullshit,” Kulinski tells me from his home in Westchester, New York. “I don’t want to hear about Lenin. I don’t want to hear about Marx. I just want a super plainspoken, straightforward agenda with a straightforward way of selling it.”
With over 800,000 subscribers and nearly 670 million total views on UA-cam, selling a progressive agenda is clearly something Kulinski knows how to do - even Democracy Now, the long-standing flagship of progressive media, cannot match his reach on the platform. Chapo Trap House can certainly boast a wildly devoted fan base (and a not insignificant degree of media influence), but their audience is roughly half the size of Kulinski’s.
While Secular Talk might be more likely to be looped in with the progressive networks around Air America and Pacifica alums like Sam Seder than the more resolutely socialist world, Kulinski’s fiery rhetoric, razor-sharp class instincts, and knack for withering takedowns sets him apart from his peers. Judging by his rhetoric alone, he’s closer to a Eugene Debs than a Chris Hayes.
But unlike Hayes, Amy Goodman, or his friend Cenk Uygur of The Young Turks - who began airing Secular Talk on his web network seven years ago - the thirty-two-year-old Kulinski is virtually invisible in the mainstream media. Despite his enormous fan base, his show has never once been mentioned in the obligatory trend pieces on “the Millennial Left” pumped out by the prestige media. Nor has Kulinski’s name ever popped up at all in the New York Times, Vox, the New Yorker, New York Magazine, or the Washington Post, despite his leading role in cofounding Justice Democrats, the organization widely credited with sweeping Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and the rest of “the Squad” to power.
Just last week, his Wikipedia page was deleted. The reason? “There is very simply no [reliable source] coverage of this person,” according to one moderator. In new media, he’s king - the Sean Hannity of the Berniecrat left. In old media, he’s nobody.
I suspect there are a few reasons for that. There is nothing “cool” about Kulinski’s show. (As a friend put it, “‘Welcome to Secular Talk’ sounds like something you’d hear on Egyptian radio.”) His no-nonsense social-democratic politics won’t get him much cred with the Full Communism crowd. He records his show not in Brooklyn or Los Angeles, but in a studio he built himself in his modest Westchester home. His hair is too groomed and his taste in clothes too preppy to qualify as “Dirtbag Left.” Nor has he ever attended an n+1 release party. “Not only have I not attended one,” he says, “I have no idea what that means.”
And yet he’s astonishingly plugged-in for a young man in the suburbs. Wondering how Sanders ended up on the Joe Rogan Experience? Kulinski, a frequent guest on Rogan’s wildly popular show, introduced them. “You make the most sense to me,” Rogan told Kulinski on a recent episode. “You’re a normal person.”
Much like Sanders himself, Kulinski’s show has a massive audience that just doesn’t compute with our media’s understanding of “what the kids want” or even “what the left-wing kids want.”
It’s probably for the best - the very woke and very WASP-ish decorum haunting much of the media world is nowhere to be found in Secular Talk. “Corporate Democrats over-focus on identity as a trick to divert you from the issues that unite us all - class issues,” he said on a recent episode.
Read More Here!:
jacobinmag.com...
#KyleKulinski #SecularTalk #news #politics #youtube #biden #economics #left #progressive #viral
Dershowitz now fully fits the adjective 'creepy'. A slimy character, devoid of a functioning moral core.
A real horror movie character/Halloween mask guaranteed to terrify children.
That is a definition of reptilian characteristics .
An evil man.
Correction: Mr. Epstein Island is cringe
“It’s not a complex issue. It’s super simple. There’s one group with enormous power. It acts on another population of people with total impunity and is never held accountable for anything.”
R.I.P., Michael Brooks. Glad you dont have to witness this one, but people still miss you. 🙏❤️
Thank yiou for reminding us about Michael.
Having more power isn't innately bad.
The 1 with less power isn't always the victim.
That view would lead you to think the Nazis were the victims in WW2
@@Politicallyhomeless18Nazi’s had an enormous amount of power in Europe and Northern Africa, so your point is moot.
@@Politicallyhomeless18 wtf 🤦♂️🤦♂️
@YourMom-cu8yt Well clearly it wasn't enough powers because they lost. Germany didn't have the upper hand or they would have won. Just because palestinians may have the right to resist doesn't mean they have the right to win the fight that they chose to fight.
The most dangerous thing is an oppressor that pretends to be a victim. 😢
Facts
Just like Hamas.
...that's what all the Pinko-Marxist say.
@Seekthetruth3000 Swing and a miss lady.
@@Seekthetruth3000Sure, Hamas is the oppressor.
Those F16, F35, F15, merkava tanks, warships, hermes drones, submarines, nuclear weapons are operated by Hamas while Israel only has AK47 and DIY missiles.
Hamas pilot dropped bombs from F16.
Look at how uncomfortable Dershowitz gets when Finkelstein suggests that it's up to the Palestinian people to decide for themselves who represents them.
Exactly! Israel will be remembered just like the N@Z!S. I guarantee you since you use the same rhetoric and tactics to commit genocide against the people in Palestine 🇵🇸
AD keeps looking down at his notes. He gets his ass handed to him every time yet he keeps coming back for more. Deshowitz cannot stand to lose se he keeps coming back for more with his notes which aren’t enough to overcome the truth.
Isreal created Hamas. No lie. Don't believe me do the research.
So by that logic, did Nazi Germany have legitimacy as a government because it originally democratically elected? If Hamas represents the Palestinian people than that says something very bad about their electorate. Also, Israel has a far right government, but it was only able to get into power by making all sorts of deals with other parties that exploited the country's complex electrical system. Israelis don't overwhelmingly support Netanyahu, he is so divisive the country shut down for months in protest over his policies,, specifically his attacks on judicial independence.
Yeah, because they've done such a good job so far.
"The biggest insult to the memory of the holocaust is not denying it but using it as an excuse to justify the genocide of the Palestinian people."
- Norman Finkelstein
Exactly. It's sad that too many people are too willing to ignore that the Israeli govt has become what they once ran away from.
@@Lord_Bibulousit makes a horrifying poetic sense in some ways unfortunately. Generational trauma and the cycle of abuse. To man with a hammer every problem looks like a nail.
@@ThyinternetNational PTSD, maybe
Said the man that uses his parents
Fun fact: Bibi Netanyahu is a shameless Holocaust denier who seriously claimed "aCkChYuAlLy HiTLeR nEvEr WaNtEd To ExTeRmInAtE aLl ThE jEwS, bUt PaLeStInIaNs CoNvInCeD hIm To dO iT!!!"
Alan is delusional
Not delusional, he makes his living by being deliberately dishonest.
Alan is a pedophile who should have been put under a prison decades ago. His pro Israel takes are somehow the least objectionable thing about him. Read his take on the age of consent and see if you don't vomit.
Alan is a good friend of Epstein and became his lawyer. That says a lot about Alan.
No he just lies for a living, defending people like Epstein and Receiving special favors from slime like Epstein
@@jimbob3030That's an American politician's entire career in a nutshell.
Facts Norman Facts!! I applaud you for speaking the truth!!!
That's your truth not mine.
@@thisisrob8750it is THE truth
@@thisisrob8750 🤣
Selective facts selected by a guy who cheered on October 7th. Mostly the "facts" of "so and so said this, so there!" 😂
@@thisisrob8750 Well your truth isn’t the truth at all lol. Your truth probably looks like some kind of propaganda acid trip.
Debating zionists is very easy if you stay calm and look at the facts. The zionist position is totally indefensible to the point of being ridiculous.
Ridiculous*
Then they start reverting back to calling you a monster and saying you support the acts of oct 7
Their best weapon is strawmaning their critics.
All nationalist views and policies are indefensible.
@@uatomthat shows how dishonest they are .
Norman Finkelstine is an island of morality and rationality in an ocean of irrationality and madness.
I love the expression "Norman Filkenstein runs circles around Alan Dershowitz". That's only to describe the debate. He really dunked on Dershowitz.
Because Finkelstein lies. He is really garbage subhuman.
Now you made me picture Finklestein dunking on Dershowitz like Kobe dunked on Dwight Howard. 😆
@@parkermudsen1063 🤣👍
@@parkermudsen1063 , it doesn't matter what you think. Finklestein is a disgrace , a liar, an asshole and all of the above. He is a useless POS
Idk if "runs" is the most accurate way to describe it. Norman is one of the slowest speakers ever 😂
Norman Finkelstein Is the wrong person to debate, If you are a Zionist. Much respect to Norm
It takes one of their own to confront them for these Zionist to choke on their own lies.
Finkelstein really honor his parents memory as direct holocaust victim by not permitting it to be repeated again ever.
It's because of people like Finkelstein we no longer hear "we are holocaust victims 6million killed so we had the right over the land"
To bad he isn't in Biden's position.
Norm came prepared.
Norman Finkelstein, someone who’s family survived the holocaust is a passionate, courageous, fearless and uncompromising activist who has dedicated his life to fighting for the rights of the oppressed. His unwavering commitment to justice and his tireless efforts to raise awareness about the ongoing genocide in Gaza are truly inspiring. His work serves as a beacon of hope for all the those who believe in the power of activism to bring about positive change in the world. I hope his message will continue to inspire others to take action and stand for what is right.
Just like during slavery and apartheid in South Africa, one side is determined not to give up any of its privileges, while the other side is unwilling to live under subjugation. History shows it takes force to bring about change.
People, do yourselves a favor and look up the Law of Armed Conflict (LOAC). It shows who the international community (including the US) views as combatants and non-combatants, acceptable severity of war, etc. the natural conclusion to make after knowing this is: Israel is actively being supported and enabled in committing war crimes. Finkelstein is absolutely right in calling for tribunals.
But it never happens. War crimes are an oxymoron.
@@davidgmillsatty1900 I would say they aren't. War crimes are pretty firmly defined. The issue is, who's to judge? There are calls from the court in Hague to prosecute Putin. There's none to prosecute Netanyahu. Fewer Nazis were sentenced for war crimes than were working in Auschwitz. And most were sentenced less than 2.5 years. Very few Japanese war criminals were punished at all. The trails were sabotaged by the United States.
Anyone who is surprised by the war crime denial in Japan does not know history. "We" put the war criminals in charge of rebuilding Japan. "We" were saying the Japanese did nothing wrong, or very little wrong, until recently. "We" suddenly got a change of heart and are now mad because the Japanese don't follow our lead.
Exactly my friend. Why do people still talk about this mass bloody genocide and not the appropriate justice form of the world--the IC? The reason as may suspect is that they don’t want justice. They want to be above the law while they continue to argue morally and politically the justification of murder! It is very clear that our world doesn’t have a uniform standard for justice. The international law is muted and useless unless it goes full course against some little guy! Some people still are not getting it. The US and other colonial powers are behind this historical tragedy and their media should be confronted as an accomplice to the horrendous crimes committed over the course of 75 years of the conflict. The big guys want no justice. It is that clear. Finkelstein made that his point very well when he demanded trials for the Oct 7th massacres and thereafter.
Truth with one comment. Since all or most women in Israel are (mandatory) military trained they are all legitimate target unlike the women of Palestine except those seen or captured during combat with guns of explosives. Those are rules of engagement.
Thank you for those details.
I hope all of Norman's ancestors are able to see how much he honors their memory with such compassion and integrity, versus hatred and tribalism. The very things that caused suffering for his ancestors. Beautiful human we barely deserve.
I am really proud of you and Chrystal for taking a stand and using your platforms to call out Israel for their continued targeting and murdering civilians... what Hamas did was completely horrific and reprehensible... but what Israel has done and continues to do is a war crime and is on the same level as the Nazis did to the Jewish people...I am still stunned to witness a country built by Holocaust survivors do exactly what happened in WWII it's sickening to watch
If it's a war crime, why does the ICC do nothing about it? Maybe because it's not a war crime?
Andrew
Agree totally.
Because ashkenazis are not religious just opportunists. They became jewish for convenience as usury was prohibited by the church. Ashkenazis doesnt have any sympathies with the religious jews they just use them as a shield for their modern financial ponzi scheme that they orchestrate.
At the very least Hamas didn’t go out of its way to target civilians and kids especially.
Were people murdered, yes. Were kids murdered, yes. Was it done with the same level of deliberation as Isr@el’s gen0cide? No.
Are unarmed people getting murdered in the West Bank? Yes. Was that happening before the 7th of October? Yes.
There’s absolutely no moral equivalency between October 7th and what Isr@el has been doing for the last 75 years. Let’s stop comparing the two.
I couldn't have said it better myself. Very well put. Netanyahu is in some ways worse than Hitler. Hitler made it clear he was an authoritarian maniac but Netanyahu tries to present himself as a leader of democracy and freedom while doing barbaric things against humanity.
The 1st Finklestein appearance was a disaster, he felt for piers morgan trap...but this second time he DEMOLISHED, one by one, what dershowitz said, and piers advocated agains israel the entire debate: Finklestein's arguments were just too solid.
Not really, or at least not under International law.
What?
Did u hear the same dialogue ?
Finklestein was amazing the first time as well
He didn't come out shooting from the hip, but the way he made his points using analogies, he left piers agape...
First appearance was not a disaster
It was not a disaster. Piers Fell for Finklesteins approach not the other way around.
"The Israeli people will decide whether there is a two state solution" well isn't this the problem for like 100 years now? Everyone will decide and have a word about how Palestinians have to live, except the Palestinians?
They have decided. They don't want it.
They refuse to discuss the people they displaced and genocided. The UN needs to come in and decide - because Israel is too intent on genociding Palestinians. They had their chance to fix this - but all they want to do is genocide. SO - let the UN do its business and take over the government and rule of Israel.
"I am on the side of the one who wasn't friends with Jeffrey Epstein." xD
He probably was the one that took care of the legal matters concerning his devil island
I love Norman Finkelstein 😂
I detest Norman finkle stien
@@mervynvanos7214truth hurts huh?
@@shabnambi7683 no truth to see here..move along scumbag
@@mervynvanos7214 cope and seethe
Truly! Finkelstein has been a consistent voice on the issues around Palestine. He's on the record for the past several years. I remember the older seminar he held taking questions from the audience, "how dare you!? my family survived a concentraton camp, I recognize one when I see it" (i'm paraphrasing his response about how Palestinians are treated)
The full debate is epic, everybody go watch it. But the most interesting part to me is that Piers landed more body blows on Dershowitz than Finkelstein did. I did not see them losing Piers "do-you-condemn-Hamas?" Morgan, but it seems like they have, at least in this debate. Or maybe Dershowitz was just so out-of-pocket that even Piers had to push back. The scary part is Dershowitz may be Israel's most reasonable public spokesperson at this point.
It's the second one
Piers realized within 5 minutes that durshowitz is going to the cleaners here, so he jumped ship quickly so that he isn't made to look like a complete lunatic
"From 2008 until 6 October 2023, 1,434 Palestinian children were reportedly killed, with an additional 32,175 sustaining injuries, primarily at the hands of Israeli occupation forces. Of these, 1,025 children were killed in Gaza alone, since the unlawful blockade began in 2007." - UN Human Rights, ‘Unchilded’ from birth: UN expert calls for decisive protection of Palestinian children under Israeli rule, 24 October 2023
I tried to make an edit to add additional information about the West Bank but UA-cam pulled my comment for some reason (this is the 2nd time I post this info)... Why is there literally no way to figure out why your comments get deleted? What community guideline did I violate by trying to add more information about geopolitics? It's honestly disturbing how much control corporations over the speech that we are allowed to project and we have this idea that we have free speech just because the government won't shut us down.
@@WanderingExistenceGoogle the owners of Google-UA-cam and read their wiki’s. You can’t even post their names without being censored.
@@WanderingExistence I think people get flagged, and once flagged they have an AI that just deletes your comments, once they reach a certain number or have a certain amount of reports on that comment, regardless of the content of the comment. I have had comments on fishing videos like, Hey nice catch, deleted. It got much much worse once I started commenting on videos about Palestine.
When introducing Dershowitz you should also mention he was on the team that got OJ Simpson off, Epstein off, and Trump off on their trials.
Regarding OJ, he was innocent. Serial killer Glenn Rodgers (an acquaintance of OJ) admitted to the crimes. The bloody gloves belonged to Glenn.
Regarding Trump, he is the lesser of evils. The only candidate who is not evil is Dr. Shiva but sadly he does not yet have enough popularity running as an independent. Maybe by 2028.
Did he represent Trump for something?
@@David53D yeah one of the impeachments. I think the first.
And he said he got a massage by an "old" lady on Epstein Island..
I love norm but he’s a 1.25x speed guy forsure
I put it at 1.25... and it sounds almost normal. Fuuuqqq, lmao 😂🤣 I love what Norm has to say, but you're so right.
I had it at 2.0x speed and he sounded normal, if not slightly sluggish.
He got really slow?
I love the pace of his voice. It emphasizes his
inflections.
He hypnotises me . He gets my 100% attention every time . I love his style .
Very bold statement from both of you .
Great work
Dershowitz looked like he was involuntarily soiling himself while Dr Finklestein went through every step .
Just back from pediphile Island mr. Dershawitz
I wish people spoke the truth like you are
I loved this debate. Norman was incredible, quoting fact after fact.
I have had the displeasure of being part of an email chain that involved Alan Dershowitz. He is crude and did not present himself to be intelligent or honorable. He is an attack dog that no depth is low enough. He resorts to character assassination, misrepresentations and crude language.
Yeah, A.D.'s zi..st talking points he made are tediously repetitive.
The problem is the cult mentality. A.D. and others like him are fervent believers of zi,,,,,sm, an ethno-nationalist political ideology formulated in the 19th century. Anyone can belong to this cult, in the West there are millions of zi,,,,,st evangelical christians who believe that bloody Armageddon leading to rapture will occur when the Chosen State takes full control of its historical lands and no undesirables are left. As with most if not all cult members, they often respond with vitriolic name-calling and ad hominems when their warped version of reality is questioned.
look at what he said about Norms Mum after their first debate.
Makes himself out to be an excellent Lawyer, but is more like an excellent Liar.
Appreciate you two’s coverage of this ❤
Thank you for covering this.
Man, once Norm gets cooking, he stays in the kitchen for hours 😂😂 that man talks longgggg and slowww lol
Gotta make sure it marinates.
12:10 About the “shock” to the populace, I think Netanyahu knows that the actions of Israel won’t get the Palestinian people to turn on Hamas. I think they want to create more Hamas supporters, so they can keep this narrative going.
they just want to complete the ethnic cleansing campaign they started in 1947, to remove all non-"Jews" from Palestine and the rest of "Eretz Israel".
Alan “I kept my shorts” Dershowitz.
Further context: in 2005, Finkelstein wrote a book (Beyond Chutzpah) which exposed Dershowitz's book (The Case for Israel) as a total hoax and falsification, calling it "a collection of fraud, falsification, plagiarism and nonsense."
Finkelstein's owning of Dershowitz continues🤣😂
Nobel peace Preise for Prof. Finkelstein! He is great, real human and deserves it!!!
Definitely. He's been ploughing away at this for a long time. Mad respect for that guy.
Nobel Peace Prize does not mean Jack **** its more of an Insult these days than an Honor, once they stained it with giving it to people like Kissinger. Should probably accept it, then express that in a speech and throw the damn thing away at the end of it, maybe have someone take a trash can up on the podium some he can toss it in there after he gives his speech about how trash it is.
Another atrocity in the future america will offer a "fake" apology for
Kyle. Thank you for reporting the truth. Speaking the truth and calling out what’s wrong. I cannot thank you enough.
Sun Tzu said in the 5th century that collective punishment doesn’t work. This is not a new concept.
It's also considered a war crime according to international law since 1949 (= Geneva Convention).
@@mangopapaya6376absolute truth, friend
They don't care about defeating Hamas, the Aim is to make Gaza unlivable and to create a humanitarian catastrophe then put pressure on Egypt to drive the people of Gaza into Egypt so they can claim gaza. Also while this is happening they are turning up the pressure in the West bank to drive more people out of their homes there, especially the Palestinians in more Isolated and small Hamlets.
Smh. I smashed the like button so hard, my screen cracked
I don't respect Piers. Is that wrong?
I think he deserves quite a bit of respect for having these kinds of debates…
no
If you care about the human rights of some, but not of everyone, you don't actually care about human rights. 😪
YES!!!!! I LOVE FINKLESTEIN!!!!!
ME TOO.
Actually, H were willing to accept the state Israel ever since they entered politics back in 2005. Their statements reiterating it is nothing new. The only thing that is new is that someone actually bothers to acknowledge it. Most people just make reference to a very old charter that the new generation have long abandoned.
.... The whole world is SEEING WITH THEIR OWN EYES what Palestinians have been shouting about for decades.
Oh no, but according to Israeli govt propaganda simps, it's apps like Tik Tok that is making people Anti-Semitic.
What is happening is anybody with a ounce of common f'n sense sees that both Hamas & the Israeli govt have committed terrorist acts. The old Israeli simps playbook that relies on mainstream media to cover their ass doesn't work anymore.
That's the first time I've seen Alan not steamroll his opponent since before OJ. He knows better, and Norm has every right to blast him, and doesn't. Interesting..
Last time Norman blasted Alan, he lost any chances of getting and keeping a job in USA.
Look up their debate in 2003 at Democracy now with host Amy Goodman.
@maquacr7014 believe it or not I was there. Anyone who spoke out loud against the buildup and invasion of Iraq was vilified and blacklisted in the same fashion as speaking for Palestine now. The difference then was the establishment had the juice and momentum to get away with it and now they don't have a leg to stand on.
If Alan bullied Norm here, he comes off even worse than doing nothing. The page has turned, and we really do have the momentum necessary now to dictate terms, but can we pull it off is another thing altogether.
Palestinians have been oppressed too many years now by those cruel colonizers who have taken their land
How can you be a colonizer if your indigenous to the land .I would suggest you read some history.
The reason why Peirs can't interrupt Norman is because he anticipates Peirs' reaction by saying , You might find it ... but allow me to say it... and then you can engage whit it... A very effective technic dealing with biased hosts
I'd be eager to see yall interview Marianne Willaimson on the issue of Palestine
Yes, I'd love to hear more of her views of this important issue.
😂 Yeah she had a real poor take
@@organicod2438her take was nuanced not poor.
@@YourMom-cu8yt Her take in her TikTok interview was pretty wrong.
Her take is that Israel is not occupying Palestine, lol. She's bad
Both of you are good people ❤
cant say the same for the bloke she usually works with the one with the glasses
dersh should just hide and stop reminding people that he exists. what a slimeball
How long will the Holocaust be used to justify Israeli bad actions. The cri de couer of "Never again" doesn't justify this obscene carnage.
until Netanyahu, et. al are convicted of War Crimes and Crimes Against Humanity at the Hague. otherwise, why would anyone ever stop using the "Holocaust Card" (as Norman so aptly refers to it)?
They are still crying about the time when they were removed from Jerusalem. What makes you think they will syop crying about holocaust?
How about learning how to spell before you present an opinion
Shame on the US!!
Way to go U.S. keep supporting Israel.
You two are amazing. Thank you for your honesty and willingness to cover this fairly. 🙌
Love seeing you two debating together. Both of your shows are awesome! You're both so objective regarding the Israeli massacre of Gaza. Finkelstein is amazing as well!
Right! I came across secular talk October 10-11. His reporting is AMAZING! His coverage Gaza is just the best. Truth, facts and calls out who is lying. He’s really funny.
The irony of a ppl who came from ghettos of Europe. To force another ppl into a ghetto in the desert. History is wild.
Whenever you introduce Dershowitz, can you please introduce him as “ Epstein associate Dershowitz”
Finkelstein is far more self educated on the matter.
Norman Finkelstein KO’d both of them like I was watching khabib vs mcgregor
Norman Finkelstein only throws haymakers.
At the air. He is psychotic and a simpleton.
@@naysayer1238 You forgot "world renown authority on Israel & Palestine"
Alan lives in the past ,its 2023 not 1945 😢
Thanks!
Early on, I understood norm F. As not supporting hammas but as accepting that they were going to lash out in some way because of the conditions Gaza was in for years.
Not just Gaza...
how and whats been going on in the west bank for months...
men shot at point blank range for defending their home,
wives and children arrested,
settlers installed into their homes...
Nighly raids, for months and months...
up until 6th october...
Then, the festival offered an opportunity to shake the crap out of israel, and they did....
But, look at the destruction at festival and kibbutz sites...
Massive firepower crating craters, melting cars, melting bodies...
Not hamas ordinance....
Witnesses state the idf were shooting, airstriking and tank strikes on EVERYONE...
ISRAELI,s INCLUDED...
Hannibal directive,
kill 1000 to get 1 hamas...
So festival and kibbutz numbers are more attributable to the IDF, not hamas...
Esp after the faked Al Shifa Hospital bunker lies
Faked israeli actress as a nurse
Faked aluminium workers as hamas, with press and high profile people included in that group...
So no, i dont believe idf numbers.....
Totally agree.
eh who cares if someone supports Hamas? thats less offensive than Supporting the State of Israel. How do you think people win their freedom or gain some rights under occupation and colonialism? Everyone demands the Occupied constantly turn the other cheek and be the perfect victim at all times but that goes against human nature. If you do that you will constantly be occupied and enslaved.
I know my first choice of someone to talk about morality is the lawyer who worked for O.J. Simpson, Harvey Weinstein and Donald Trump.
Not to mention the bodies that disintegrated on impact or are still buried under rubble.
I see your videos, and they are very informative
Epsteins travel/ party buddy
hasn't aged well, isn't he close in age to Finklestein? Looks 20 years older and Finklestein looks tired and drawn out.
@@MusMasiFinkelstein is extremely good looking. That makes a huge difference too.
Finkelstein must be the most ignorant educated person that goes on TV. He hasn't got a clue.
Finally some truth.
I love this two!
Nice to see Mrs covering up for her husband, saying allegedly
Alan said that he kept his underwesr on during his massage. LOL
Finkelstein doesn't run circles around anyone, he's very slow and methodical and careful with every word he says, it would be more appropriate to say he slowly walked circles around derpsh.
I have never seen Dershowitz so on the defence
so satisfying !
Watch his debate with Noam Chomsky in 2005. Or his debate with Norman in 2003.
It's just astonishing how you can get away with crimes against humanity or straight out genocidal intentions by paying a fine...both sides are guilty though one is doing it legally just because it has a state status and an army😢
Alan will never beat Norman
"Most of the great problems we face are caused by politicians creating solutions to problems they created in the first place. If we're ignorant, we won't even know when government infringes on our liberties." -- Walter E. Williams
Please cover the horrific events in Gaza today. Everyone needs to know. The bulldozing around the hospital. It is so terrible....
This is actually their 2nd debate. In the early 2000s, they debated on a program called Democracy Now. Everyone can watch the debate here on UA-cam. Norman absolutely demolished Dershowitz on the show. Calling out Dershowitz book for plagiarism. Dershowitz was so humiliated that he pulled strings to have Norman denied tenure at DePaul University, basically affecting Normans academic career. I encourage everyone to watch that first debate between these two. It's epic internet material.
I would assume both Finklestein and Dershowitz both Jewish?
Yes. Finkelstein's parents lost most of their family in the Holocaust. Whereas dershowitz is just a mouth piece for Zionism.
They are and grew up in the same neighbourhood in NY.
Yeah, but there is a world of difference between them. A.D. is a zi,,,,st zealot, and Finkelstein is a highly informed political scientist. His primary fields of research are the politics of the Holo,,,,,,,t and the Is,,,,li-Palestinian conflict.
I'm glad that the host had to tell me that Finkelstein ran circles around Dershowitz because what's clear to me is that Finkelstein simply threw out the standard trope while providing no solutions to the current situations, short of a war crimes tribunal when "hostilities cease." The fact is that Israel has repeatedly offered a two-state solution based on negotiated boundaries but requiring the recognition of Israel's right to exist. Secondly, prior to 10/7 there had been few, if any, artillery exchanges from Israel into Gaza: it was Hamas, knowing how Israel would respond, who initiated the violence, not to capture land or achieve political or international recognition, but to murder and rape Israelis. The irony in all of this is that Yizhak Rabin paid a much higher price trying to achieve peace through a two-state solution than Arafat or Abbas.
He did acknowledge it...
Journalism....🙄
Keep in mind that the numbers weren't accurate and the narrative askewed. So, he was 💯 on that part.
Good vs Evil. The Debate
still hasn't paid his $10,000 wager
Those that attacked Israel had been held in a concentration camp for their entire lives?
International law states if your held by force by another occupying country,you have a right to use violence in resisting.
Media reporting on this has been appallingly biased!
Shame on every western government that has supported this genocide.
In UN conference several times Netanyahu has shown a map where Palestine doesn’t exist at all? Latest map produced by Netanyahu not only had Palestine disappeared, but Jordan too had become Greater Israel.
Ironic that Hamas are called Nazi’s?
Zionism is identical, right down to believing that they’re superior human beings, identical to Nazi’s policy!
So wierd that you have to debate the moral principles of international law when it comes to Israel when people get it in any other circumstance. Decades of media propaganda take it´s toll.
Guess what neither Piers nor Dershowitz answered the question and Piers just changed the subject on another thing😂
Alan got his lunch handed to him but to be fair he had no legal or moral ground to defend......
I think Norman was too quick to walk back his original comments. Maybe you two are unaware, but IDF has admitted responsibility for many of the deaths that occurred on October 7th. Scott Ritter says up to 80% based on his analysis.
i saw tik toks which young, ANGRY kibbutz survivors were putting out within 24 hours of the attack saying that what they *personally witnessed* was that the IDF suddenly shows up and starts slaughtering everyone in sight, they didn't try to determine who was who, and they weren't trying to save/spare any Israelis at all. which fits in perfectly with the casual admissions over the years of most Israelis that since no one will be able to prove otherwise, if you just collectively blame all carnage on your enemy ("the Arabs"), and everybody just sticks together behind that narrative in a united front, and you also call all requests for proof or evidence "antisemitism", everything will work out great for Zionists and Zionism. that protocol has been working like a charm for DECADES.
Kyle, you have to stop the percentage thing and say the *actual numbers* because 50% is both 1/2 and 1,000,000/2,000,000. The *scale* is the atrocity not just the percentage.
Norm vs Dersh is as lopsided a conflict as the IOF vs Hamas
great show an facts 👌
Finkelstein and Dershowitz sounds like a law firm from a sitcom.
because a lot of law firms do have names like that, especially in the USA.
Norm must have been bored with an opponent so incompetent.
Thank you for continuing to talk about this.
How many times has Norman bodied Alan over the years?
Two or three since Democracy now debate went on for two days.
Fully agree with Finkelstein : he is surprisingly lucid and honest in a world of lies. Only criticism is he is a bit slow in his exposition.
Addendum: I have to add though that Hamas has NOT been elected, in 18 years (under a blockade), since it took over power in Gaza by FORCE (after there was armed conflict against the Fatah party). I am a longtime supporter of Palestinian rights, but truth must prevail. Maybe the people of Gaza, in a normal democratic process, would elect many members of Hamas, but logically not 100% of the seats, but there has been no elections.
What a backhander to Dunce Dershowitz! Dershowitz raised the point and Piers agreed with him, but Finkelstein addressed Piers on the response. If that’s not a 3-count then I think WWE wrestling is real!
three count after a monster spear 🤣🤣
You don't make peace with your friend, you make peace with your enemy
Take the worst thing you can say about Hamas, multiply it by 1,000 times and it still will not meet the Israeli repression and killing and dispossession of Palestinians---Gabor Mate Holocaust survivor.
4:22 Look how once Morgan heard the word genocide he goes to interrupt.