Modern technology that can produce a translucent flexible tube that long. The LASER is off(not perfectly leveled) the water is as correct as you can get.
I'm reading alot of comments about the time needed for a water level. Starting to think if I wanted cheap and quick. I'd buy two long lengths of tubing. Affix two of them together. Then move one end to a spot where you need marking. Then move the other tube to another spot. Hopefully, by the time you've affixed site 2 ... site 1 has settled down for marking, then move it to the next point. Return to the other tube and mark and move. Cheap and possibly just as fast.
Ive seen plenty of brick piers that are up to and over 30mm out of level after brick layers using water levels to level them. Ill stick to my laser level thanks.
@@Ga7cun7sSUCK - Just as in the video. The error is not from the water level per se. It's operator induced! That's a given. Physics don't change. On the other hand operator's patience, capacity, whatever, varies a lot! ;-) With this said I would go with a laser. - IF I didn't have to pay for it! ;-) - IF there was a multitude of continuous work, that justified it! Other wise for a couple of measures the water level would be just fine. After all most backyard projects only need a few measurements. A "pro" doing it all day long, day in day out. That's another story!
Interesting video I stumbled on here. I am a metal stud drywall guy,and I actually started in the trades in Texas,and we used a water level all the time,back in 1983 the lasers were not yet as available as today. I think since there was only 1 discrepancy, it could be the mark made on the pipe was slightly off...But yes,the water level is the bomb,just keep the air bubbles out.
You can check the accuracy of the lazar level using the two peg method, most people don’t know how to do this. I’ve found brand new lazar levels to be inaccurate. A water level doesn’t need to be checked and is always right on if you are patient enough to wait for the water to settle out. To two peg a level set up two posts 50 feet apart. Set the level up in the centre. Shoot both posts and measure the difference. Move the level 50 feet away from the pegs and shoot them again and measure the difference it should be the same. If it’s not you can see if it’s shooting up or down.
There are a couple of ways to use a water level by yourself. The first is when you have the two ends together fix the stationary end to a post etc then mark the waterlevel on the tube, when you are at the marking end you have to make sure the water is at the line you marked and it will be at the line on the fixed end. The quickest method is to drill a hole in the bottom of a bucket and silicon one end of the hose into the bucket, fill with water, mark the hose with a line and when marking make sure water is at the mark. The bucket reservoir will dampen the water movement in the hose and make it settle much quicker.
Wish I had an opportunity to work with an old school like this cat even with my years exp. I know I learn a lot. No one in Missouri wants to pass knowledge on just make their money.
That's the craziness thing I've ever heard..lol. After 30' you loose or gain 1/8"!? Sticks of pipe are 20' and we lay 300' and never move the laser. Check every joint and it's always on grade. You're crazy..
My money is on the water level. Lasers are good hell their great but there's human error, lasers are fast you get in groove going around marking your elevation an its very easy to get off an 1/8th inch by not marking the exact spot that the target card is telling you to.
If you add petcocks to both ends of the water level, and shut them "off" before moving the water level, you will have much less bounce to the water, as you wait for it to settle in the tube. I have been building boats for 36 years. A water level is what we always use to level our multi-million dollar boats. Another choice to use for liquid to use in a water level is, non-toxic antifreeze.
Petcock or cork is perfect for storage and transportation of the water level! But for it to level quickly, covering and releasing the tube with your finger in a quick succession will stop it in no time! With some practice it's surprisingly fast! ;-)
I have used both pretty extensively the laser you need to check calibration every so often. The water level wind will make a difference sometimes the upwind side will have a higher pressure then the downwind side causing your levels to be off a little bit. The laser level can be a one-man operation easier than a water level but if one end of your water level is attached to a bucket filled with water it can be a one man operation also. A very good laser level can have a range from one side to the other of almost a thousand feet a water level is limited to probably about 150 to 300 feet. A water level has its advantages in that you can level easily underneath structures and in any room. It is probably wise put a small amount of detergent in the water used in a water level to do away with the surface tension of the water. Don't use too small of a hose because the surface tension will make a difference. I always used a garden hose with a clear section of hose at the end to get my levels I always put a valve on it also so that when I transported the end from one location to the other I didn't lose any water. High tension power lines, strobe lights like those found on emergency vehicles, arc welders and anything that reflects light like large glass windows that business sometimes have will play Havoc with your laser level receiver. Get too close to an automobile that has a real shiny finish can be a problem too. If you have more than one laser level on a job site or nearby you can get some very erroneous readings also. You don't have those problems with a water level. However you can have problems with heavy equipment running over your hoses. If you do not need a level very often a water level is probably far more cost-effective. So in summary they both have their advantages and disadvantages. You can get very good results out of both of them. A water level is a very good tool for surveying caves and mines. Another pretty good low tec level is a speed square and plumb bob but it is not nearly as accurate as a water level. The best level that I have ever used was a split bubble Wild made in Switzerland it was so sensitive that just switching your weight from one foot to the other even on solid concrete would cause the bubble to move slightly.
Measure it with a micrometer, mark it with a crayon, cut it with an axe. Accuracy and repeatability with any construction method is in the hands of the craftsman.
I have never seen this guy strike a mark that wasnt at least a few mm' off the mark from using those 10 inch thick marking pens. I guarantee everything is off by a bit
I think the water level is spot on every time. You mentioned the con for water levels; they’re slow because you have to wait for the water to settle. Someone else also mentioned lasers are line of sight- the only limit on a water level is how much hose you have available. Something else to consider...does the laser level need to be calibrated occasionally?
Most Lasers have a discrepancy of 2 to 3 mm either side of true level ? Therefore one needs to move the Receiver and observe a height mark on the work, when it's at it's highest point just before it starts to beep periodically, and then do a second mark after moving the Receiver down slightly until the continuous beep changes to a periodic beep at it;s lowest point. Once You find this range, then it is simply mark the centre point between both marks giving You True Level and a more accurate reading ! Hope this helps !
Earth is flat.. Research it I dare you! Water don't curve around a ball ..this is just common sense....but if you want to believe nasa with their cartoon images go ahead throw your common sense out the window..I'm not trolling.i just want more people to think about what they believe to be true.peace..
Like most scenarios I have seen at job sites, the true test is repeatability, which level works more often? My guess is, in a more exhaustive test, both levels are going to perform very well, and it is most likely, human error that accounts for differences. An example, if you measure something 10 times and 9 measurements are the same, and one is not, the measure that is not the same, it is usually due to human error, and not the tool.
I love it. My laser level is easy to use early in the morning, not so much in the middle of the day. This water level is impressive and a heck of a lot cheaper.
Let it settle and the water level will be as accurate as the meniscus of the water in the tube. Add a bit of dishwashing soap and the meniscus will decrease, giving even more accurate measurements. The laser will expand slightly over distances, so when you are marking your levels, you need to ensure that you are marking the exact center of every laser dot / line. If you are needing to mark a single reference point throughout a house where there will be walls blocking a clear line of sight, the water level will work better. If you wanted to see if the slab of your house is at the same level throughout your house, the water level would be a better choice.
Great video, as a builder I have used both, and I've seen lasers be off, especially if not setup correctly or dropped etc. Yet I still use the laser for the most part for speed etc, and it's easy to setup a couple benchmarks and to check yourself... I used to keep a backup water level... Might get a hundred feet of tubing again, just in case... I like the windshield washer fluid idea... Here in So Kal it's not cold enough to need for freezing, but visiblity is better...
The 1/8" would be easy to get just by marking mistakes. the pencil is 1/16" thick :) the laser relies on charged batteries and the ability to mark the notch accurately. My money is on the water level especially since you have the wiper fluid in it to reduce bubble and friction. I have worked with many lasers in 40 years and they can be fussy :) setup time is reduced with the water level also, nice video.
And your dad probably paid a nickel, .05 cents for the small pack of koolaid. That's what it cost back in the 1950's and early 1960's...Good idea, thanks.
Great video. I like using my water level just so people can ask me “what the heck is that”. I love telling them my level cost $25.00 and then hear them say they spent $1500 .
Suggestion: To make it easier to see the fluid levels, you can use a gallon of dark brown iced tea to fill the tube. If the vinyl tubing is kinked from storage, let it sit in the sun for a while to soften up and return to its round shape. Also you can run hot black coffee through the tube to soften it, makes it easy to see the levels. Yes, a waste of coffee, and you need to flush the tubing afterward. Rather than trying to fill the tube with a funnel I find it easier to just set up the tube as a siphon and let run to get the tube full and bubbles out.
It's pretty impressive that that it's only off by 1/8" at that one location. I think the error could have easily been additive. For the water mark, it may have been off by 1/16" in one direction, and the laser mark could have been off by 1/16" in the other direction (1/8" total).
The water level should be perfect, except when it gets hot and bubbles form. The laser beam can get larger at distance and they all have tolerance that increases errors with distance.
Used water level 80s-90s. First lazer had double bubbles to level. Would need to keep checking to make sure the laser was still plumb. Finally got a self leveling laser which works great!
It's more likely some parallax error while hand marking. Laser beam with shoot straight on very long distances until the beam spread its beam and loose accuracy ,the construction will be an inverted trapezoidal. The water level will follow the Eath curvature and make you produce the same curve on your construction. In the absolute,the water level is more accurate,just because we live on a big ball,and not on a flat surface.
I've used the water level, laser and jig transit for layout before. For simplicity, the water level wins. For speed and accuracy, the laser wins, for absolute accuracy, the transit is king. The laser is a productivity tool. A single tradesman can set up a laser and mark all the locations inside a work space in minutes. A water level is a low skilled tool that works well within the limitations of the length of the tubing you have access to.
I put a valve on each end of hose so I can close the ends till the next time I need it. Fast and accurate and with valves no mess or need for water on site.
Does the tube ever develop air pockets . I’ve been draining mine but then I have to get the Air out of the line before each use. Would be nice to eliminate the step of getting all the air bubbles out
I use both and each has it's merits, biggest problem we have is wind which shuttles the water back and forth through the tube( no rude comments please!!). Trees obsticles buildings etc not a problem .Drop your bundle of tube - no damage cheap to buy and nil to fill. Laser quick and easy limited to dull days or use a recieve,r regular accuracy checks needed and limited to line of sight
Been using an inexpensive one for years, needs salt water for conductivity as it's electronic, gives of the same beeping sound as the laser receiver.. pretty spot on, claims +/- 1/8th" in a hundred feet. Great for starter courses around corners when working alone.
When using water level check for bubbles, for they will affect the level. Before using water hose do a level test like you did, put the hoses side by side to check calibration. I filled the hose with RV pink antifreeze, worked great at first, the next year it was off an 1", I'm thinking the additives in the RV antifreeze separated.
I'm from the Philippines living in Texas. As an engineer and carpenter I love technology. Unfortunately only big contractors in the Philippines would have the privilege's of technology. Regular carpenters and masons still uses crooked hand tools and a water tubing for leveling. Like you said its been used for thousands of years. If it works don't change it.
Water is level ,fact. Every foundation has to be measured,squared and level. Water level is better because if you have objects in front of the laser it can't operate, with water you can
Both the water level and the laser level are great tools. A person that does sloppy, careless work, or is not properly trained, could make either tool inaccurate and could seriously screw up a job.
@@dbmail545 The tubing doesn't need to be translucent if you add clear pipe, plastic or glass, to the ends where you read the level. Seen such for sale, even graduated so you could easily/directly mark offset from the actual level.
Great video! The only reason I would give the win to the laser, is if you have joker coworkers and somebody steps on the water level while you are marking points.
Air pressure can make tricks to the water level, that is difference in air pressure, like wind blow into one end of the pipe/hose and the other end is on the opposite side of where the wind hits the object you are measuring at (this create a small vacuum compare to the real air pressure). An other thing can be temperature of the water in the pipe/hose, if you start with cold water in the morning and the pipe/hose lay in the sun during the day it will heat up and expand, if you do not recheck with your reference point then this can trick you too.
SWEET! I was just wondering about this! Nice experiment! My guess would be the laser lever since in the back of the book of my laser level it says at 100 feet it is + or - 1/16th .
Sheps, they can be. Depends on where you are at. In addition, in places out in the county where inspection is not required, from time to time you will see a metal shop built. Then a little while later a home is built inside it. The county knows you have a 50x50 shop. They don’t know much about the 50x30 home built in the back. So your $30k shop is really a $100k home. Homes like you see here were always built as homes and meet codes etc. so any tax break would be on perceived value differences, not the fact that they are Barndominiums.
The laserlevel is perfect for the initial leveling. If you are in a masonry house you already have walls in the way of your laser, so you would need to reset the height on the laserlevel for every room to get the same height. With the waterlevel it's easy to get the level in different rooms all across a house... I say there is no right tool for every job in the world...
If you use multiple hoses with "central bucket" then there is no significant difference in speed. You only need clear tubing at the end of you lines. Rest can be done with heavy duty and/or cheap hose. Water works in all lighting conditions, in mist, dust, round the corner and at any distance... and no level of abuse will ever throw it off the calibration!! You can wack it around your truck, throw it around work site, drive over with digger and drop it from the roof with no worries. Accuracy is guaranteed by nature. After you done all hose fit inside the bucket so storage is comparable to the laser set - with the difference in cost and fragility of the system ;)
Each laser has a natural "droop" over a certain distance (i.e. 1/16" over 50' distance). That droop needs to be taken into consideration when calculating heights. There is no error factor with water.
Due to curvature of the earth the laser will lift off the horizon 1' inch in 660' feet. If you shoot laser across a 660'ft pond, the water level will be an inch lower on the other end. A water level will differ from laser by 1/10"in every 66'ft
@@dbmail545 : iI can - if you "try to guess where the bobbing will end" - (when in a hurry) - takes time to steady out. - when an error happens, repeat.
Before lasers the water level was the only solution. Lasers have a built in specified inaccuracy, usually a fraction of an inch per 100 feet. But there is no question much more efficient, and can be used to resolve tilted plane demarcation, for example, cathedral ceilings.
I've used water levels a lot on building site especially on relocated house's projects when there 2 or 3 sections and working from 1 datum point Lazer's can't see through plaster sheeting or as America's call drywall.
For some reason laser levels are typically advertised +-1/8”. With water levels, it not only needs to settle but have any air bubbles expelled. Also, the water and the tube can expand and contract with heat and cold. And if some water drips out or is removed it needs to be recalibrated.
The water is always perfect, gravity works, but it takes patience and experience to get it right. Takes time ($$) where the laser is fast and easy and properly set up and confirmed you can count on repeatability. I had a Robo Laser long ago and built a lot with it. After some tweaks out of the box (checked with a water level) it was good and no detector needed. Wish they were still in business.
Hello, excellent video, I would like to know, for example, when you use the receiver at 20m, how much error does this laser have in cm? do you have any idea? thank you
The concept of the water level is sound. Looking at the product specs. of laser levels will show a small variance in accuracy. This variance will magnify the further away from the source. That said. I have never had much luck with the water level. I think it's the operator :-) The best tool is only as good as the operator.
I'm not sure if they still make it but Zircon (the stud finder people) made a electronic water level where you drove a nail or another attachment method to a surface and one person could move the other end of the hose around and the sensor beeped when the water mark was level. A one man water level. What other device can you spend so little that does that much?
I have used a water level for years and the only issue I've had with using it is with other workers stepping on the hose! I've even had them trip on the hose spilling the water pail and causing me to fill and start over. You also need to be careful of air bubbles in the hose,
Do you have to compensate 8 inches per mile with the water level? To compensate for "sea curve" like on the "curvizion"? I was told water wont stay level cuz we live on a bubble and not on a plane.
Could be human error when they marked it. You always mark/measure at the bottom of the meniscus (the bend in the water due to surface tension) Maybe it wasn’t settled as you mentioned. The only other caveat I would add is marking it at the same time, as fluctuations from temperature could affect it.
Ahhhh - Thank you - I was wondering about that! (Where to measure to.) I like to establish a simple grade line somewhere on the project and periodically check to make sure it is still on. I was thinking about "upgrading" to a water level, but the accuracy specs are not nearly within my personal tolerance. When I'm putting in a foundation, I want it as perfect as I can get it. My late father, a master carpenter always told me "Son - If you don't get the foundation square and level, you will fight the problem all the way up."
I love water levels because when you are on very uneven terrain you can work very easily with it. Once you have a slab or level foundation or work inside the laser can speed things up but the upfront costs are my problem also getting the laser setup level is sometimes an issue when the ground is not solid.
There are so many lasers on the market now that the price really isn't that bad compared to 20 years ago when they cost thousands of dollars. I remember my dad bringing home a transit laser that he would yell at me to not even look at, an would bring it in the house every night because it cost a small fortune. For 700-1500 you can get a really good laser that will pay for itself with the amount of time you will save. You'll get so use to it you'll start to wonder how you ever got by with out one.
Water level for the win. No annoying sounds. Speed isn’t something I’m to worried about when trying to set something as important as control marks. Only thing that can be annoying with a water level is it’s sometimes difficult to use with only one person. But it can be done with a little work.
Laser levels require line of sight, water levels can work around corners, through trees, opposite sides of a vehicle. etc.
Excellent Point👌👍🆗
very good point.
This is what I was going to say.
You are a genius, 👌🏽
Modern technology that can produce a translucent flexible tube that long. The LASER is off(not perfectly leveled) the water is as correct as you can get.
I use a water level on my projects. Just built a 50'x104' pole barn. Never had a problem worked great! Just make sure you get all the air bubbles out!
Seems like someone was just in a hurry with their water level marks, I've used water in a pinch several times it's always dead on
I would put it down to human error must likely.
Agreed....(see my comment above)
I wish he’d have run the water level again to confirm his suspicion. Great video though. Fun challenge.
I’d trust water level, yes it’s takes a bit longer but it can go around corners/blind spots and still be read accurately
I'm reading alot of comments about the time needed for a water level.
Starting to think if I wanted cheap and quick. I'd buy two long lengths of tubing. Affix two of them together. Then move one end to a spot where you need marking. Then move the other tube to another spot. Hopefully, by the time you've affixed site 2 ... site 1 has settled down for marking, then move it to the next point. Return to the other tube and mark and move.
Cheap and possibly just as fast.
Ive seen plenty of brick piers that are up to and over 30mm out of level after brick layers using water levels to level them. Ill stick to my laser level thanks.
@@Ga7cun7sSUCK - Just as in the video. The error is not from the water level per se. It's operator induced!
That's a given. Physics don't change. On the other hand operator's patience, capacity, whatever, varies a lot! ;-)
With this said I would go with a laser.
- IF I didn't have to pay for it! ;-)
- IF there was a multitude of continuous work, that justified it! Other wise for a couple of measures the water level would be just fine. After all most backyard projects only need a few measurements. A "pro" doing it all day long, day in day out. That's another story!
My father and I did this method for his house and it was pretty kool what my father taught me! Glad people like you are showing these kind of videos!
Interesting video I stumbled on here. I am a metal stud drywall guy,and I actually started in the trades in Texas,and we used a water level all the time,back in 1983 the lasers were not yet as available as today. I think since there was only 1 discrepancy, it could be the mark made on the pipe was slightly off...But yes,the water level is the bomb,just keep the air bubbles out.
You can check the accuracy of the lazar level using the two peg method, most people don’t know how to do this. I’ve found brand new lazar levels to be inaccurate. A water level doesn’t need to be checked and is always right on if you are patient enough to wait for the water to settle out. To two peg a level set up two posts 50 feet apart. Set the level up in the centre. Shoot both posts and measure the difference. Move the level 50 feet away from the pegs and shoot them again and measure the difference it should be the same. If it’s not you can see if it’s shooting up or down.
Every other tradesman also went to trade school rick! Were you the auther of the the two peg method??
SWEET!
@@Ga7cun7sSUCK 2 peg test is more of a surveying test to check if there dumpy level is callibrated and can be used the callibrate it
There are a couple of ways to use a water level by yourself. The first is when you have the two ends together fix the stationary end to a post etc then mark the waterlevel on the tube, when you are at the marking end you have to make sure the water is at the line you marked and it will be at the line on the fixed end. The quickest method is to drill a hole in the bottom of a bucket and silicon one end of the hose into the bucket, fill with water, mark the hose with a line and when marking make sure water is at the mark. The bucket reservoir will dampen the water movement in the hose and make it settle much quicker.
Wish I had an opportunity to work with an old school like this cat even with my years exp. I know I learn a lot. No one in Missouri wants to pass knowledge on just make their money.
water level is accurate to the dot. laser levels have a +-1/8” when you go further than 30+feet. so i’ll put my $ on the water level.
That's. That
Also the calibration and clean lens affects alot
Water level has the concave due to the surface tension so you might have 1/8 in or so with the water level as well
That's the craziness thing I've ever heard..lol. After 30' you loose or gain 1/8"!? Sticks of pipe are 20' and we lay 300' and never move the laser. Check every joint and it's always on grade. You're crazy..
My money is on the water level. Lasers are good hell their great but there's human error, lasers are fast you get in groove going around marking your elevation an its very easy to get off an 1/8th inch by not marking the exact spot that the target card is telling you to.
If you add petcocks to both ends of the water level, and shut them "off" before moving the water level, you will have much less bounce to the water, as you wait for it to settle in the tube.
I have been building boats for 36 years. A water level is what we always use to level our multi-million dollar boats.
Another choice to use for liquid to use in a water level is, non-toxic antifreeze.
Petcock or cork is perfect for storage and transportation of the water level! But for it to level quickly, covering and releasing the tube with your finger in a quick succession will stop it in no time! With some practice it's surprisingly fast! ;-)
I have used both pretty extensively the laser you need to check calibration every so often. The water level wind will make a difference sometimes the upwind side will have a higher pressure then the downwind side causing your levels to be off a little bit. The laser level can be a one-man operation easier than a water level but if one end of your water level is attached to a bucket filled with water it can be a one man operation also. A very good laser level can have a range from one side to the other of almost a thousand feet a water level is limited to probably about 150 to 300 feet. A water level has its advantages in that you can level easily underneath structures and in any room. It is probably wise put a small amount of detergent in the water used in a water level to do away with the surface tension of the water. Don't use too small of a hose because the surface tension will make a difference. I always used a garden hose with a clear section of hose at the end to get my levels I always put a valve on it also so that when I transported the end from one location to the other I didn't lose any water.
High tension power lines, strobe lights like those found on emergency vehicles, arc welders and anything that reflects light like large glass windows that business sometimes have will play Havoc with your laser level receiver. Get too close to an automobile that has a real shiny finish can be a problem too. If you have more than one laser level on a job site or nearby you can get some very erroneous readings also. You don't have those problems with a water level. However you can have problems with heavy equipment running over your hoses. If you do not need a level very often a water level is probably far more cost-effective. So in summary they both have their advantages and disadvantages. You can get very good results out of both of them. A water level is a very good tool for surveying caves and mines. Another pretty good low tec level is a speed square and plumb bob but it is not nearly as accurate as a water level. The best level that I have ever used was a split bubble Wild made in Switzerland it was so sensitive that just switching your weight from one foot to the other even on solid concrete would cause the bubble to move slightly.
Measure it with a micrometer, mark it with a crayon, cut it with an axe.
Accuracy and repeatability with any construction method is in the hands of the craftsman.
The importance of that statement is cannot be overstated
Really good point! Manworker tolerance is the main accuracy.
I have never seen this guy strike a mark that wasnt at least a few mm' off the mark from using those 10 inch thick marking pens.
I guarantee everything is off by a bit
:D
That project is going to be beautiful. Great pick on your contractors.. Thank you for sharing. Texas Barndominiums!!
I think the water level is spot on every time. You mentioned the con for water levels; they’re slow because you have to wait for the water to settle. Someone else also mentioned lasers are line of sight- the only limit on a water level is how much hose you have available. Something else to consider...does the laser level need to be calibrated occasionally?
Most Lasers have a discrepancy of 2 to 3 mm either side of true level ? Therefore one needs to move the Receiver and observe a height mark on the work, when it's at it's highest point just before it starts to beep periodically, and then do a second mark after moving the Receiver down slightly until the continuous beep changes to a periodic beep at it;s lowest point. Once You find this range, then it is simply mark the centre point between both marks giving You True Level and a more accurate reading ! Hope this helps !
"Water finds it's own level." For a minute it was going to turn into a flat earth video.
😂
That's why he was off an 1/8"! It was the curve of the earth.
Earth is flat.. Research it I dare you! Water don't curve around a ball ..this is just common sense....but if you want to believe nasa with their cartoon images go ahead throw your common sense out the window..I'm not trolling.i just want more people to think about what they believe to be true.peace..
To the OP, nice joke! LOL 😂
To the flat earther comment above, even BIGGER. LOL 😂
Like most scenarios I have seen at job sites, the true test is repeatability, which level works more often? My guess is, in a more exhaustive test, both levels are going to perform very well, and it is most likely, human error that accounts for differences. An example, if you measure something 10 times and 9 measurements are the same, and one is not, the measure that is not the same, it is usually due to human error, and not the tool.
Water level, nothing needed? Only a pipe and water, last time i checked thats something.
Now the question is how much do you appreciate the old school trades those who had no technology and everything was made by hand and pure brain
I love it. My laser level is easy to use early in the morning, not so much in the middle of the day. This water level is impressive and a heck of a lot cheaper.
Let it settle and the water level will be as accurate as the meniscus of the water in the tube. Add a bit of dishwashing soap and the meniscus will decrease, giving even more accurate measurements. The laser will expand slightly over distances, so when you are marking your levels, you need to ensure that you are marking the exact center of every laser dot / line. If you are needing to mark a single reference point throughout a house where there will be walls blocking a clear line of sight, the water level will work better. If you wanted to see if the slab of your house is at the same level throughout your house, the water level would be a better choice.
water. cheap, easy. 100% accurate. Thanks for posting!
In the summer months in FL the laser would droop on which ever side the sun WASN'T shining on. Thermal expansion was the cause.
It's this simple! Gravity DOES NOT LIE!! The water level method has been used for centuries!
Great video, as a builder I have used both, and I've seen lasers be off, especially if not setup correctly or dropped etc. Yet I still use the laser for the most part for speed etc, and it's easy to setup a couple benchmarks and to check yourself... I used to keep a backup water level... Might get a hundred feet of tubing again, just in case...
I like the windshield washer fluid idea... Here in So Kal it's not cold enough to need for freezing, but visiblity is better...
The 1/8" would be easy to get just by marking mistakes. the pencil is 1/16" thick :) the laser relies on charged batteries and the ability to mark the notch accurately. My money is on the water level especially since you have the wiper fluid in it to reduce bubble and friction. I have worked with many lasers in 40 years and they can be fussy :) setup time is reduced with the water level also, nice video.
Water level every time. Built my 13 mt x9 mt garage, concert floor, all steel construction. Can't beat that water. Great video. Cheers from Australia.
Great information! First time I’ve seen a water level in use and I can’t deny the science! Subscribed to the channel!
Thank you!
My dad use that option when adding to our house 35yrs ago, he used red kool-aid . And learned that from his dad...
That would have been almost the earliest translucent tubing on the market.
There is such a thing as red food coloring....
Kool Aid Man has entered the chat.
And your dad probably paid a nickel, .05 cents for the small pack of koolaid. That's what it cost back in the 1950's and early 1960's...Good idea, thanks.
He used kool aid cause it would make for a good summer beverage after the job is done.
Great video. I like using my water level just so people can ask me “what the heck is that”. I love telling them my level cost $25.00 and then hear them say they spent $1500 .
The mark itself may move. "The guy marking " could have breath and move a 8th
I think this is what happened.
On your Barndo's do you foam under roof and on top sealing are batten
Wow Erik! Great video yet again!
Awesome video amigo!
Water of course!!
What a exciting vlog man thanks for shairng CHEERS with levels.
They are both good but I like the laser level.great job Erik
Never heard of a water level. So clever
Double check my friend
Suggestion: To make it easier to see the fluid levels, you can use a gallon of dark brown iced tea to fill the tube. If the vinyl tubing is kinked from storage, let it sit in the sun for a while to soften up and return to its round shape. Also you can run hot black coffee through the tube to soften it, makes it easy to see the levels. Yes, a waste of coffee, and you need to flush the tubing afterward. Rather than trying to fill the tube with a funnel I find it easier to just set up the tube as a siphon and let run to get the tube full and bubbles out.
not to mention the laser can get hit and a parking garage can be out of level by a couple inches, don’t ask how I know.
Matthew lol
Why did you do it 😭😂
R u asking for a friend??
Operator error!
Lasers are very convenient but I like that the water level doesn't accumulate error like a laser level.
It's pretty impressive that that it's only off by 1/8" at that one location. I think the error could have easily been additive. For the water mark, it may have been off by 1/16" in one direction, and the laser mark could have been off by 1/16" in the other direction (1/8" total).
The water level should be perfect, except when it gets hot and bubbles form.
The laser beam can get larger at distance and they all have tolerance that increases errors with distance.
Old tried and true methods are often the best. Technology doesn't always make things better.
I made the 1,000 like :) Thanks for the quick and informative videos!
I love using water levels and for the cost comparison its well worth the little wait of water balancing.
As a 70 year old now retired from the trades I witnessed many Masonry and Tile craftsmen in hospitals installations use the water levels over Lazer’s.
Used water level 80s-90s. First lazer had double bubbles to level. Would need to keep checking to make sure the laser was still plumb. Finally got a self leveling laser which works great!
I'm a siding contractor and I use a water level, it is better around corners, decks, trees and requires no batteries
It's more likely some parallax error while hand marking.
Laser beam with shoot straight on very long distances until the beam spread its beam and loose accuracy ,the construction will be an inverted trapezoidal.
The water level will follow the Eath curvature and make you produce the same curve on your construction.
In the absolute,the water level is more accurate,just because we live on a big ball,and not on a flat surface.
Badass video. Thanks...very informational!
My dad told me! He built every hotel on Panama city beach , a water level! 30 years ago?! Back in the 50 s
The fifties were 30 years ago!?
@@1puppetbike he leveled. Not do the maths of history
I've used the water level, laser and jig transit for layout before. For simplicity, the water level wins. For speed and accuracy, the laser wins, for absolute accuracy, the transit is king.
The laser is a productivity tool. A single tradesman can set up a laser and mark all the locations inside a work space in minutes. A water level is a low skilled tool that works well within the limitations of the length of the tubing you have access to.
I've been using water levels since I was a teenager in my family pool business. Works great for swimming pools.
I put a valve on each end of hose so I can close the ends till the next time I need it. Fast and accurate and with valves no mess or need for water on site.
Does the tube ever develop air pockets . I’ve been draining mine but then I have to get the Air out of the line before each use. Would be nice to eliminate the step of getting all the air bubbles out
I use both and each has it's merits, biggest problem we have is wind which shuttles the water back and forth through the tube( no rude comments please!!). Trees obsticles buildings etc not a problem .Drop your bundle of tube - no damage cheap to buy and nil to fill.
Laser quick and easy limited to dull days or use a recieve,r regular accuracy checks needed and limited to line of sight
String a line across the poles on both sides and see which one doesn't line up in the middle.
Lines will sag. At the distances he is measuring, a line will certainly sag if it's not pulled very very tight. A breeze can throw it off, too.
Been using an inexpensive one for years, needs salt water for conductivity as it's electronic, gives of the same beeping sound as the laser receiver.. pretty spot on, claims +/- 1/8th" in a hundred feet. Great for starter courses around corners when working alone.
I just learned something awesome today.
When using water level check for bubbles, for they will affect the level. Before using water hose do a level test like you did, put the hoses side by side to check calibration. I filled the hose with RV pink antifreeze, worked great at first, the next year it was off an 1", I'm thinking the additives in the RV antifreeze separated.
Great video. water is very accurate. used that a lot.
I'm from the Philippines living in Texas. As an engineer and carpenter I love technology. Unfortunately only big contractors in the Philippines would have the privilege's of technology. Regular carpenters and masons still uses crooked hand tools and a water tubing for leveling. Like you said its been used for thousands of years. If it works don't change it.
Nice job; thanks. J.
Thanks Maestro
The water level is great for anyone to use as it's cheap and simple to use. The laser needs deep pockets and training to use.
That's a fact, Jack! A LASER level is only as good as its setup.
Water is level ,fact. Every foundation has to be measured,squared and level. Water level is better because if you have objects in front of the laser it can't operate, with water you can
The training to use a laser takes about 1 minute it's pretty simple.
I’ve used one many times! Always accurate!
Both the water level and the laser level are great tools. A person that does sloppy, careless work, or is not properly trained, could make either tool inaccurate and could seriously screw up a job.
Why am I just learning about a water level now, so many times I could have used one.
Same here! I guess translucent flexible tubing came along after the old hands that trained me.
@@dbmail545 The tubing doesn't need to be translucent if you add clear pipe, plastic or glass, to the ends where you read the level. Seen such for sale, even graduated so you could easily/directly mark offset from the actual level.
Great video! The only reason I would give the win to the laser, is if you have joker coworkers and somebody steps on the water level while you are marking points.
Air pressure can make tricks to the water level, that is difference in air pressure, like wind blow into one end of the pipe/hose and the other end is on the opposite side of where the wind hits the object you are measuring at (this create a small vacuum compare to the real air pressure). An other thing can be temperature of the water in the pipe/hose, if you start with cold water in the morning and the pipe/hose lay in the sun during the day it will heat up and expand, if you do not recheck with your reference point then this can trick you too.
Love how you share some of your tricks of the trade. Just a little sceptical ever since your cement slab for $1 sqft video. 😉🤠😂😜😙
😂
I'm this situation, you could check them both with a good optic. Water level has the advantage of working around corners.
old school is the best in some situations cool beans
SWEET! I was just wondering about this! Nice experiment! My guess would be the laser lever since in the back of the book of my laser level it says at 100 feet it is + or - 1/16th .
I contracted grade work for decades with a water level. So did the Egyptians when they built the Pyramids.
well the water level is a lot cheaper but the lazer would be nice to have . did you just buy the clear tube and do you plug the ends ?
Are these buildings taxed differently to a regular house?
Sheps, they can be. Depends on where you are at. In addition, in places out in the county where inspection is not required, from time to time you will see a metal shop built. Then a little while later a home is built inside it. The county knows you have a 50x50 shop. They don’t know much about the 50x30 home built in the back. So your $30k shop is really a $100k home.
Homes like you see here were always built as homes and meet codes etc. so any tax break would be on perceived value differences, not the fact that they are Barndominiums.
Not having to permit a septic tank is a huge savings
The laserlevel is perfect for the initial leveling.
If you are in a masonry house you already have walls in the way of your laser, so you would need to reset the height on the laserlevel for every room to get the same height.
With the waterlevel it's easy to get the level in different rooms all across a house...
I say there is no right tool for every job in the world...
Very interesting. I wonder if a water level was used to build the Egyptian Pyramids?
thank you for sharing.
If you use multiple hoses with "central bucket" then there is no significant difference in speed. You only need clear tubing at the end of you lines. Rest can be done with heavy duty and/or cheap hose. Water works in all lighting conditions, in mist, dust, round the corner and at any distance... and no level of abuse will ever throw it off the calibration!! You can wack it around your truck, throw it around work site, drive over with digger and drop it from the roof with no worries. Accuracy is guaranteed by nature.
After you done all hose fit inside the bucket so storage is comparable to the laser set - with the difference in cost and fragility of the system ;)
Each laser has a natural "droop" over a certain distance (i.e. 1/16" over 50' distance). That droop needs to be taken into consideration when calculating heights. There is no error factor with water.
You mean divergence? Ie making the laser bigger the further you go. The received should be able to pick that up and calculate the middle point
Due to curvature of the earth the laser will lift off the horizon 1' inch in 660' feet. If you shoot laser across a 660'ft pond, the water level will be an inch lower on the other end. A water level will differ from laser by 1/10"in every 66'ft
I think it was margin of error. I brought my laser lever back, and got one with a better receiver. Now it works like a champ
The laser is darn good. I'm guessing the guys hurried that one mark with the water level.
The water level method can't introduce errors. The LASER was suspect.
@@dbmail545 : iI can - if you "try to guess where the bobbing will end" - (when in a hurry) - takes time to steady out. - when an error happens, repeat.
Before lasers the water level was the only solution. Lasers have a built in specified inaccuracy, usually a fraction of an inch per 100 feet. But there is no question much more efficient, and can be used to resolve tilted plane demarcation, for example, cathedral ceilings.
I've used water levels a lot on building site especially on relocated house's projects when there 2 or 3 sections and working from 1 datum point Lazer's can't see through plaster sheeting or as America's call drywall.
Okay, lmao... Some of the comments on this is like listening to Laurel and Hardy, "who's on third" 🤔🤣🤠
That was Abbot and Costello's line. Vaughn
That was Abbot and Costello , STUPID !!!!
For some reason laser levels are typically advertised +-1/8”.
With water levels, it not only needs to settle but have any air bubbles expelled. Also, the water and the tube can expand and contract with heat and cold. And if some water drips out or is removed it needs to be recalibrated.
If you use a bucket reservoir type you don't need to recalibrate if a touch spills out
The water is always perfect, gravity works, but it takes patience and experience to get it right. Takes time ($$) where the laser is fast and easy and properly set up and confirmed you can count on repeatability. I had a Robo Laser long ago and built a lot with it. After some tweaks out of the box (checked with a water level) it was good and no detector needed. Wish they were still in business.
Hello, excellent video, I would like to know, for example, when you use the receiver at 20m, how much error does this laser have in cm? do you have any idea? thank you
The concept of the water level is sound. Looking at the product specs. of laser levels will show a small variance in accuracy. This variance will magnify the further away from the source. That said. I have never had much luck with the water level. I think it's the operator :-) The best tool is only as good as the operator.
Truth. My friend always says: "you need to be smarter than the tool you are working with" or something like that 😄
@@flat6fever680 So true. My variance of that statement is - the tool is as smart as the operator. In my case it can be stupid. 😉😉
I'm not sure if they still make it but Zircon (the stud finder people) made a electronic water level where you drove a nail or another attachment method to a surface and one person could move the other end of the hose around and the sensor beeped when the water mark was level. A one man water level. What other device can you spend so little that does that much?
I have used a water level for years and the only issue I've had with using it is with other workers stepping on the hose! I've even had them trip on the hose spilling the water pail and causing me to fill and start over. You also need to be careful of air bubbles in the hose,
Do you have to compensate 8 inches per mile with the water level? To compensate for "sea curve" like on the "curvizion"? I was told water wont stay level cuz we live on a bubble and not on a plane.
Could be human error when they marked it.
You always mark/measure at the bottom of the meniscus (the bend in the water due to surface tension) Maybe it wasn’t settled as you mentioned. The only other caveat I would add is marking it at the same time, as fluctuations from temperature could affect it.
Ahhhh - Thank you - I was wondering about that! (Where to measure to.) I like to establish a simple grade line somewhere on the project and periodically check to make sure it is still on. I was thinking about "upgrading" to a water level, but the accuracy specs are not nearly within my personal tolerance. When I'm putting in a foundation, I want it as perfect as I can get it. My late father, a master carpenter always told me "Son - If you don't get the foundation square and level, you will fight the problem all the way up."
The water level is sopt on but laser is faster
Only after it's set up and levelled.
I love water levels because when you are on very uneven terrain you can work very easily with it.
Once you have a slab or level foundation or work inside the laser can speed things up but the upfront costs are my problem also getting the laser setup level is sometimes an issue when the ground is not solid.
There are so many lasers on the market now that the price really isn't that bad compared to 20 years ago when they cost thousands of dollars. I remember my dad bringing home a transit laser that he would yell at me to not even look at, an would bring it in the house every night because it cost a small fortune. For 700-1500 you can get a really good laser that will pay for itself with the amount of time you will save. You'll get so use to it you'll start to wonder how you ever got by with out one.
@@dylanrampage9360 So you know of any Laser level which can shoot me a laser up to 1000ft ? I still looking for one which don't break the bank.
What distance can you go to..? Before the water level stops working?
thanks for the video
Water level for the win. No annoying sounds. Speed isn’t something I’m to worried about when trying to set something as important as control marks. Only thing that can be annoying with a water level is it’s sometimes difficult to use with only one person. But it can be done with a little work.