Great discussion. Geometry, heat treat, steel all play a big role in performance characteristics of a blade and I always appreciate your informed perspective. Keep edge-u-catin'!
This was really well said. I’m several hundred hours into my sharpening journey and I continue to be amazed how much of that is art rather than science, but you explain this aspect very well.
I just wanted to give you an idea to finish up your -1. My 1x30 is not very accurate at the regrinds but it does work well with premium ceramic belts to remove material. At ace hardware they sell ceramic sheets of sand paper and if I want to finish my regrinds a little prettier I will buy the roughest they have up to maybe 320 grit on a flat hard surface. 320 finish leaves a lot of finger prints though. It’s takes some concentration for me anyway to go spine to edge to get those lines right. It’s good to see I’m not the only one looking for better performance out of my knives. Also the 1x30 will burn the tips of any steel if not careful. I may not be telling you anything new but I just thought I’d share some of the stuff I’ve tried. Take care and looking forward to your upcoming videos.
The Benchmade 940, the one must have knife I just can't seem to buy. Great video! You got the progression of most knife guys spot on. Picking the correct geometry is an economical way to get more for your money. Thanks again 😎👍
...I have never seen a blade flex like that..just never thought a blade would perform that thin....Live and learn, 'very interesting'...have a great week
JCB 67 its too thin for normal western uses, can't be used by anyone unless they are doing Japanese style cuisine. Might make a fun video to show what it's used for.
nice! ive seen makers test the edges on thicker edge knives with a brass rod instead of there fingers. you could regrind that pm2 like you did to the 940-1 to keep that better geometry. .. i didnt realize how much you sharpened that until i saw close up below that finger choil, OMG love the reground 940-1
Tactical Center god, it's so damn sharp with the regrind. That's why people go custom. A custom maker doesn't have to make beefy grinds for the lowest common denominator. Yup I need to regrind my Paramilitary 2 next.
Great video, you can get a replacement blade for the 940 in S30V, cost was at one time $30. $25 for the blade plus $5 shipping. Keep the knife for the rest of your life and pass it on.... I'd buy the blade now so you will have it later : )
Thick geometry on My 940-1 too, was pretty hard on it doing some trim and was glad I didn't change it. BTW I think Goddard used a brass/copper rod for that same test, might get some flex on some of those ya can't get on a nail?
1:10 the kitchen knife would be perfect in the woods 2:44 my 940 i thinned the blade and got it to a zero grind now it cuts beautifully but what a chore
I'm in the middle of thinning out the edge on that exact knife, at least they could of thinned out this one slightly since its not the hard use version of the 940. Benchmade knives do seem to be a little on the thick side most of the time, with few exceptions of course.
Hello BBB, how much sharpening and use did it take to get the Blurple PM2 that worn down? Is that something I should take into consideration when selecting steel? Maybe s110v vs. s30v? I don’t want to end up with a thick wedge!
One of the best videos so far... i needed a while to discover that myself some years ago. I was thinking that full flat grinds always cut better then sabre grinds and that hollow grinds are always better cutters then full flat grinds... well, that is kinda true but only if the thickness behind the very edge is the same on all 3 grinds. I was avoiding hollow grinds for the longest time becaus people said it is a weak grind but nowdays i prefere it becaus i can resharpen it a lot of times before it gets thicker behind the edge unlike a saber or flat grind.
It takes alot of skill to make a hollow grind too. I can't make hollow grinds lol. But yeah when you start wearing your knives away with Sharpening the hollow grind holds it's own
Can you compare the cutting power and feathersticking abilities of a knife with a very high scandi grind (like malanika puukko) vs a scandi grind that goes to half the height of the blade of the knife?
the malanika edge is more stable and less prone to chipping and rolling with cutting wood, it also has more control in the wood if you need it cut shallow or deep its easy to control. The mora type low scandi has more bite in the wood but want to dig and bite very deep and take more control for shallow cuts when trying to make very very fine feathers, its also a very very delicate edge and has lots of rolling or chipping just cutting wood so the malanika is superior, and it takes more skill for a maker to create
The Mora's are good knives but at 58hrc and 11.5 DPS, it's a soft wood carving knife sort of grind. Scandi can be the worst of two worlds with a thick stock that makes cutting an onion awful, while having thinner primary bevels than your average chef knife. Keep a microbevel on it if you're not a carver or such, and stick to a thinner mora basic with a thinner stock.
Someday a new super steel will come out allowing super thin blades with incredible toughness and abrasion resistance and totally rust proof . Can't wait but then how would we sharpen it ? Hopefully some new vitrified diamond sharpening stone over an inch thick that would last for generations, but how would we then flatten that stone ? Yeah , some day , until then I'll keep my old rusty knives and Arkansas whetstones. Sharp enough to shave with . Not hair whittling or tree topping , popping sharp but hey I am happy . All kiddin aside , I guess chasing that edge , finding that steel ( remember infi ? ) collecting sharpening stones and systems , trying new strop leathers and compounds , balsa wood and basswood is just plain FUN ! Enjoy your videos and share your passion for knives . It's like the 6.5 creedmore guys looking for barrel steel that will stay accurate for more rounds down range . Yep , it's an addiction, but fun . From your fellow cradle to the grave knuckle dragger mucho respect dude .
Your magic steel is basically CPM MagnaCut. Jack of all trades steel with hardness, toughness, totally stainless, and wear resistance. Diamonds cut anything, though. If it lasts longer you sharpen less, you hardly wear down diamonds.
Given that the Tsuba has such a thin edge, what's the benefit of such a beefy spine? If the spine were reduced to .125" (for example), but the bevel angle remained the same, we'd wind up with a superficially shorter bevel and a knife that still had little to no flex through soft material. Its something I see often with Asian knives, so just trying to understand what's going on there.
Sooo, more wear resistance steels are better because they don't need resharpening as often. Thus keeping the edge on the thinner part of the wedge longer. Of course, cost and time are factors. I like sharpening but I'd rather pay a bit more and do it less often. And spend more time playing with my knives...
Ok, Big Brown Bear!! You got me going and ever so interested. I just got the Chosera 400, 800, and 1,000. Id that good enough for the most part? I'm excited to dive in and try a knife. I can't read the Japanese though so I need a little extra guidance. These stones are the splash and go, right?
Nate Brabant Oo hey brother, you don't need both the 800 and the 1000, just one or the other, buy a stone flattener too. I'd take the extra cash and get a strop with 1 micron diamond spray. Yes splash and go
Oh yeah brother, I have all of that down and well experienced with it. I've watched a lot of the water stone videos (all of your of course) and I really want to get become semi-good at the stones ya know! I do mostly hand sharpening on stones, the old fashioned way! I catch on quickly, I have 5 dummy knives I use for testing and breaking in new diamond stones.
Your experience with Benchmade is oddly the opposite of mine. I had several Benchmade and Spyderco knives in the mid to late 2000s. The Benchmade knives consistently had better edge geometry than the Spyderco blades. I haven't bought a Benchmade in a while and sold all the ones I had. It could be different now.
Is that Swamp Rat SR-101 any good in your opinion or is it just that I maybe should not have thinned out and convexed my Ratmandu? I doesn't hold an edge any better than my 8CR13MOV Schrader fixed blades and it chips. I have to resharpen after every single use of even cutting chicken. Maybe I got one from a bad batch of heat treating, because the forums swear by that SR-101 steel. I investein a kydex sheath and after a total $200, I could have gotten a 3V Gunny from BRKT.
Mos Matic God it's tough to say man. I've owned bark river and Swamp Rat. They are both radical, but the swamprat doesn't come sharp at all. But when you reprofile it takes a killer edge. SR 101 is 52100 with cryogenic aging. It was a wonderful edge. Not chip proof of you Sharpen it to a laser but it will cut better. If you want Ulitamo durability you have to make that choice. The Bark river is rad too.3v is better steel if you want more edge holding but less ease in Sharpening to SR101. Just pick what's cooler, you'll probably get both eventually and there's a wait time on the ratmandu Currently I'm just not that into beefy survival knifes. I like lasers
True dat man. I'm loving my PM2 but I can't bring myself to cut packing straps and bump into cardboard staples with such a limited production and unique looking knife. I know it would suffer more than my current EDC, regardless of steel. My outdoor knife is a thick bitch but flat ground. I guess I like knives that will do all tasks poorly. Lol
Come to think of it, you have great descriptives for a nice shapely woman. Narrow up top with a little wedge in the middle...or did I get that backwards??? :)
simonize251 I took that bitch apart and slapped it on a 60 belt on the platen. I don't recommend it because it's super easy to fuck up your blade. But hey it's $25 I believe for a new blade from Benchmade. But honestly. I'd look into Josh's work from "razor edge knives" he does regrinds
just an idea for spyderco: they should launch a mini prybar sidekick for every knife they sell :D I own a Police 4 lightweight in k390 and an Native Chief in S30V. They weigh like 230 g combined. I dont get why people buy survival knives. Get a knife for woodworking and a hatchet for kindling you dummies.
Yep, that's why Mora basic knives are so popular for real world use. Light, cheap, decent stainless steel, and a 11.5dps scandi grind. The stock is about a milimeter or so. In my opinion, scandi grinds suck on thicker stock knives as is often paraded around. Thinness is sharpness.
Maybe you didn’t get enough sub and money because you do not wish to break concepts slowly. You made it very smooth and fast but sometime detail helps a lot. However I can tell you are skilled and had huge collection of stones meaning what you said is tested. It’s a like for me
Howard green yes but I wouldn't say the steel demands it. It's the intended job/use and the everything else is just playing off that synergy based on user preferences
BurnDuration I'm a fuckin' knuckle drager. I'd dig holes for a living if it payed the bills. But get me talking about knives and I could fool ya hahaha
Well Big Brown Bear, if it cuts up my rabbit it's good. A moderate geometry cuts my kimchi, and I don't care about my kitchen much as you can tell!! You always have good class, beyond 95% of the UA-cam literate but I will always drive by to check out the interesting subjects you are working on, good job! Let's get back to hiyacking trees, cars, logs, and all that fun stuff.Line up a six pack of PBR (since no one in their right mind drinks it anyway) and do the slice test with some BRK's and Fallkniven's, Zoe Crist choppers and deep the can slice test!
I like all my knives to be super slicey like a razor blade slicing paper. I don't use my knives for anything but cutting I don't batton with my knives. to me a knife is useless if it can't even cut paper. I had S110V once and I hated it. I could never get it sharp I do like how razor sharp D2 gets though
I will add only one thing to this down to the earth and common sense every should have video - handle comfort. If man use a knife for an extended period of time, discomfort and fatigue can make even good thin knife uncomfortable piece of shit in the eyes of the end user.
Great discussion. Geometry, heat treat, steel all play a big role in performance characteristics of a blade and I always appreciate your informed perspective. Keep edge-u-catin'!
Darn tootin'! haha thanks Tyler.
This was really well said. I’m several hundred hours into my sharpening journey and I continue to be amazed how much of that is art rather than science, but you explain this aspect very well.
I swear everytime I watch your Channel I learn something new! You should have classes and charge tuition. Always enjoying the videos you put out!
KBF hahaha that would be hilarious. Thanks brother appreciate the compliment
I think a twenty minute video by you on this topic would be great and I'd watch it.
Frank Martin haha maybe. I have ADD so I can only make it for 5-6 minutes in a video so I try to keep it about there.
I’m amazed you didn’t say apexing first.
I started to shift toward thinner blades for my knives.
Bro too soon I just finished geometry last year
Jared Tyra hahaha I'm dying 😂
I just wanted to give you an idea to finish up your -1. My 1x30 is not very accurate at the regrinds but it does work well with premium ceramic belts to remove material. At ace hardware they sell ceramic sheets of sand paper and if I want to finish my regrinds a little prettier I will buy the roughest they have up to maybe 320 grit on a flat hard surface. 320 finish leaves a lot of finger prints though. It’s takes some concentration for me anyway to go spine to edge to get those lines right. It’s good to see I’m not the only one looking for better performance out of my knives. Also the 1x30 will burn the tips of any steel if not careful. I may not be telling you anything new but I just thought I’d share some of the stuff I’ve tried. Take care and looking forward to your upcoming videos.
Always appreciate your videos. Thanks.
The Benchmade 940, the one must have knife I just can't seem to buy. Great video! You got the progression of most knife guys spot on. Picking the correct geometry is an economical way to get more for your money. Thanks again 😎👍
...I have never seen a blade flex like that..just never thought a blade would perform that thin....Live and learn, 'very interesting'...have a great week
JCB 67 its too thin for normal western uses, can't be used by anyone unless they are doing Japanese style cuisine. Might make a fun video to show what it's used for.
Big Brown Bear that would be an interesting video
nice!
ive seen makers test the edges on thicker edge knives with a brass rod instead of there fingers. you could regrind that pm2 like you did to the 940-1 to keep that better geometry. .. i didnt realize how much you sharpened that until i saw close up below that finger choil, OMG
love the reground 940-1
Tactical Center god, it's so damn sharp with the regrind. That's why people go custom. A custom maker doesn't have to make beefy grinds for the lowest common denominator.
Yup I need to regrind my Paramilitary 2 next.
Great video, you can get a replacement blade for the 940 in S30V, cost was at one time $30. $25 for the blade plus $5 shipping. Keep the knife for the rest of your life and pass it on.... I'd buy the blade now so you will have it later : )
Thick geometry on My 940-1 too, was pretty hard on it doing some trim and was glad I didn't change it. BTW I think Goddard used a brass/copper rod for that same test, might get some flex on some of those ya can't get on a nail?
1:10 the kitchen knife would be perfect in the woods 2:44 my 940 i thinned the blade and got it to a zero grind now it cuts beautifully but what a chore
I'm in the middle of thinning out the edge on that exact knife, at least they could of thinned out this one slightly since its not the hard use version of the 940. Benchmade knives do seem to be a little on the thick side most of the time, with few exceptions of course.
Great vid. Lot of good data points. Maybe it’s time to thin the grind on that pm2. Use water stones and post a vid!
blueline561 haha that would be a fun workout video wouldn't it?!
Hello BBB, how much sharpening and use did it take to get the Blurple PM2 that worn down? Is that something I should take into consideration when selecting steel? Maybe s110v vs. s30v? I don’t want to end up with a thick wedge!
This was a great video! I had the same problem that you had on your 940 on my Lionsteel M4.
Loris Buschor so you feel my pain hahaha
One of the best videos so far... i needed a while to discover that myself some years ago. I was thinking that full flat grinds always cut better then sabre grinds and that hollow grinds are always better cutters then full flat grinds... well, that is kinda true but only if the thickness behind the very edge is the same on all 3 grinds. I was avoiding hollow grinds for the longest time becaus people said it is a weak grind but nowdays i prefere it becaus i can resharpen it a lot of times before it gets thicker behind the edge unlike a saber or flat grind.
It takes alot of skill to make a hollow grind too. I can't make hollow grinds lol. But yeah when you start wearing your knives away with Sharpening the hollow grind holds it's own
Can you compare the cutting power and feathersticking abilities of a knife with a very high scandi grind (like malanika puukko) vs a scandi grind that goes to half the height of the blade of the knife?
the malanika edge is more stable and less prone to chipping and rolling with cutting wood, it also has more control in the wood if you need it cut shallow or deep its easy to control. The mora type low scandi has more bite in the wood but want to dig and bite very deep and take more control for shallow cuts when trying to make very very fine feathers, its also a very very delicate edge and has lots of rolling or chipping just cutting wood
so the malanika is superior, and it takes more skill for a maker to create
The Mora's are good knives but at 58hrc and 11.5 DPS, it's a soft wood carving knife sort of grind. Scandi can be the worst of two worlds with a thick stock that makes cutting an onion awful, while having thinner primary bevels than your average chef knife. Keep a microbevel on it if you're not a carver or such, and stick to a thinner mora basic with a thinner stock.
Someday a new super steel will come out allowing super thin blades with incredible toughness and abrasion resistance and totally rust proof . Can't wait but then how would we sharpen it ? Hopefully some new vitrified diamond sharpening stone over an inch thick that would last for generations, but how would we then flatten that stone ? Yeah , some day , until then I'll keep my old rusty knives and Arkansas whetstones. Sharp enough to shave with . Not hair whittling or tree topping , popping sharp but hey I am happy . All kiddin aside , I guess chasing that edge , finding that steel ( remember infi ? ) collecting sharpening stones and systems , trying new strop leathers and compounds , balsa wood and basswood is just plain FUN ! Enjoy your videos and share your passion for knives . It's like the 6.5 creedmore guys looking for barrel steel that will stay accurate for more rounds down range . Yep , it's an addiction, but fun . From your fellow cradle to the grave knuckle dragger mucho respect dude .
Your magic steel is basically CPM MagnaCut. Jack of all trades steel with hardness, toughness, totally stainless, and wear resistance. Diamonds cut anything, though. If it lasts longer you sharpen less, you hardly wear down diamonds.
Given that the Tsuba has such a thin edge, what's the benefit of such a beefy spine? If the spine were reduced to .125" (for example), but the bevel angle remained the same, we'd wind up with a superficially shorter bevel and a knife that still had little to no flex through soft material. Its something I see often with Asian knives, so just trying to understand what's going on there.
Sooo, more wear resistance steels are better because they don't need resharpening as often. Thus keeping the edge on the thinner part of the wedge longer. Of course, cost and time are factors. I like sharpening but I'd rather pay a bit more and do it less often.
And spend more time playing with my knives...
Well said.
Duder cool video. Thanks for the time u put aside to make it.
Ok, Big Brown Bear!! You got me going and ever so interested. I just got the Chosera 400, 800, and 1,000. Id that good enough for the most part? I'm excited to dive in and try a knife. I can't read the Japanese though so I need a little extra guidance. These stones are the splash and go, right?
Nate Brabant Oo hey brother, you don't need both the 800 and the 1000, just one or the other, buy a stone flattener too. I'd take the extra cash and get a strop with 1 micron diamond spray. Yes splash and go
I'd return the 1000, and keep the 800
Oh yeah brother, I have all of that down and well experienced with it. I've watched a lot of the water stone videos (all of your of course) and I really want to get become semi-good at the stones ya know! I do mostly hand sharpening on stones, the old fashioned way! I catch on quickly, I have 5 dummy knives I use for testing and breaking in new diamond stones.
Printed out the return for the 1000.
Nate Brabant it's the fastest most satisfying way to sharpen, LOVE freehand
Your experience with Benchmade is oddly the opposite of mine. I had several Benchmade and Spyderco knives in the mid to late 2000s. The Benchmade knives consistently had better edge geometry than the Spyderco blades. I haven't bought a Benchmade in a while and sold all the ones I had. It could be different now.
Is that a kono hd kity?? If it is ive never seen one
Is that Swamp Rat SR-101 any good in your opinion or is it just that I maybe should not have thinned out and convexed my Ratmandu? I doesn't hold an edge any better than my 8CR13MOV Schrader fixed blades and it chips. I have to resharpen after every single use of even cutting chicken. Maybe I got one from a bad batch of heat treating, because the forums swear by that SR-101 steel. I investein a kydex sheath and after a total $200, I could have gotten a 3V Gunny from BRKT.
Mos Matic God it's tough to say man. I've owned bark river and Swamp Rat. They are both radical, but the swamprat doesn't come sharp at all. But when you reprofile it takes a killer edge. SR 101 is 52100 with cryogenic aging. It was a wonderful edge. Not chip proof of you Sharpen it to a laser but it will cut better. If you want Ulitamo durability you have to make that choice. The Bark river is rad too.3v is better steel if you want more edge holding but less ease in Sharpening to SR101.
Just pick what's cooler, you'll probably get both eventually and there's a wait time on the ratmandu
Currently I'm just not that into beefy survival knifes.
I like lasers
True dat man. I'm loving my PM2 but I can't bring myself to cut packing straps and bump into cardboard staples with such a limited production and unique looking knife. I know it would suffer more than my current EDC, regardless of steel. My outdoor knife is a thick bitch but flat ground. I guess I like knives that will do all tasks poorly. Lol
Quinton D. Hahaha I feel ya
Come to think of it, you have great descriptives for a nice shapely woman. Narrow up top with a little wedge in the middle...or did I get that backwards??? :)
Nate Brabant hahaha whaaa?!
Did you slack belt the 940 or hand stones? I'm about to do that with mine
simonize251 I took that bitch apart and slapped it on a 60 belt on the platen. I don't recommend it because it's super easy to fuck up your blade. But hey it's $25 I believe for a new blade from Benchmade. But honestly. I'd look into Josh's work from "razor edge knives" he does regrinds
Right on. Looked pretty good to me. I'm not too picky on how pretty my blades are if they cut like a light saber I'm happy.
just an idea for spyderco: they should launch a mini prybar sidekick for every knife they sell :D
I own a Police 4 lightweight in k390 and an Native Chief in S30V. They weigh like 230 g combined. I dont get why people buy survival knives.
Get a knife for woodworking and a hatchet for kindling you dummies.
Yep, that's why Mora basic knives are so popular for real world use. Light, cheap, decent stainless steel, and a 11.5dps scandi grind. The stock is about a milimeter or so. In my opinion, scandi grinds suck on thicker stock knives as is often paraded around. Thinness is sharpness.
Amazing...
Maybe you didn’t get enough sub and money because you do not wish to break concepts slowly. You made it very smooth and fast but sometime detail helps a lot.
However I can tell you are skilled and had huge collection of stones meaning what you said is tested.
It’s a like for me
Triple B is it accurate to say different steels prefer different geometry to be used to their greatest potential
Howard green yes but I wouldn't say the steel demands it. It's the intended job/use and the everything else is just playing off that synergy based on user preferences
At "plasticity" I thought: okay he's a materials engineer or mechanical engineer. Am I right?
BurnDuration I'm a fuckin' knuckle drager. I'd dig holes for a living if it payed the bills. But get me talking about knives and I could fool ya hahaha
Well Big Brown Bear, if it cuts up my rabbit it's good. A moderate geometry cuts my kimchi, and I don't care about my kitchen much as you can tell!! You always have good class, beyond 95% of the UA-cam literate but I will always drive by to check out the interesting subjects you are working on, good job! Let's get back to hiyacking trees, cars, logs, and all that fun stuff.Line up a six pack of PBR (since no one in their right mind drinks it anyway) and do the slice test with some BRK's and Fallkniven's, Zoe Crist choppers and deep the can slice test!
Nate Brabant hahaha yes I'm dyin to go break stuff with my axes. Too much geek stuff for one day lol
I like all my knives to be super slicey like a razor blade slicing paper. I don't use my knives for anything but cutting
I don't batton with my knives. to me a knife is useless if it can't even cut paper. I had S110V once and I hated it. I could never get it sharp
I do like how razor sharp D2 gets though
Cool video
49Giants thanks dood :)
*It's official... I'm a geek!*
I will add only one thing to this down to the earth and common sense every should have video - handle comfort. If man use a knife for an extended period of time, discomfort and fatigue can make even good thin knife uncomfortable piece of shit in the eyes of the end user.
Stefan Wolf hahaha fair enough Brotha