yep, dnd feels clunky as fuck, I agree that winter should take its place, and imo it should get the same treatment as ret's consecration got, which is automatic when using blade of justice.
Been watching your content since the beginning of S3 Df and it just occurred to me how much of a help you've been and I've never left any comments or anything. Amazing guides and content. Your plater profile was a complete GAMECHANGER for me in M+ too. Thanks a lot man. Keep up the good work
Saaaame bro. Been a Rogue main since Vanilla. Did play Havoc DH for about 50% of my time with Legion as I couldn’t believe Blizz legit made a more mobile and insanely fun class. I’ve pushed through all the ups and downs thru the expacs. Spammable Burst of Speed was probably the most fun I’ve ever had in a video game ever (ended up FCing in high-rated RBGs - holy moly the mobility and Shadowstep outplays felt incredible to pull off). We’ve truly lost it all at this point, man. It all went downhill when Outlaw was introduced in Legion (or BfA, I forget), and PvP already died after MoP IMHO. I hate gamba games and now gamba is literally a core facet of a Rogue spec, lmao. I loved the class in Vanilla and originally picked it because I loved the idea of total *control*, and always mained Sub for arena/rbgs and Assa whenever it was BiS for parsing. This is the first expansion I’m considering skipping entirely until a huge rework is announced. The fact that my one and only backup toon, my Havoc, is by most accounts awful as well, feels really depressing. I did become a Classic Andy during the pandemic but dropped that version of the game the day the WoW token dropped. Maybe I’ll level another HC rogue with the community event in October, I guess… Damn sry for the wall of text, guess I’m in a period of mourning lol. Hope you find solace in a particular spec or another class altogether, @yep330. o7
WoD was probably the most fun I've ever had on my rogue with all three specs. Now, I'd like to see combat be more of a duelist style. Idk where this pirate theme came from, but I've just never been a fan. The addition of gun abilities and rolling dices took me out of my rogue immersion. It sucks cause I want swords on my rogue, but the play style that has swords continues to push me away from it.
I get that for the last seasons in DF where you wanted to press every Sub cd individually at different times for small optimizations. But rn you can just macro SB, SD, SoD and TT together. CB you could always macro into SecTech. So I really dont see the issue right now.
@@OutplayedqtHey mate, I've mained rogue since 2005 and stopped after MoP. I came back with the ar within and good god this class isn't rogue anymore, I also hilariously picked sub with the character boost and I was nearly going to quit again when I saw how hard it was! I rolled an evoker for fun and I seem to do about 3x the damage with 10x less effort. But man I miss rogue.
Its been like this for years for me but i have to draw the line in tww... its just yet again back to all bites no bleeds. Fucking dev are going back on their own words. Disgraceful
I freaking LOVE Ret Paladin! I've been relearning everything after coming back since the end of MoP, played Shadow Priest, Druid, and just in love with how tanky and fluid the Paladin is right now to me at least.
@@TheShawnMower Iunno, I used to love ret, and I still love the paladin class fantasy, but they've cut the buttons down a bit too much at this point. we're pressing like 4 buttons for our rotation, it kinda sucks. those 4 buttons feel impactful, sure, but it feels a bit too lean
As a casual player who hates any downtime and strategizing between packs Ret Paladin has been awesome. I tried it for the first time in TWW and its the most fun i had in wow yet, since my biggest CD is 30 seconds i dont have to worry about it too much and im just always pumping damage. Even a low level player like me can do really well with this gameplay style and i never feel like im letting down my group because of skill issues.
I never coment in any vídeo from world of warcraft content creators but you rock, i like the WAY you explain things and give your own opinion and dont think about the others wow content creators saying what is going to be meta or not. I play like you every single new expasion i play what feels more fun to me and i still get high elo if its not meta. I advice people to choose what they think its more fun to play. Keep the good work.
Couldn't agree more on the Havoc Demon Hunter. Such a fun specc ruined by the constant need to zip around making me motion sick. I wish they could find some other way to add complexity to the specc. As a baseline it's a bit too simplistic maybe, so I understand why they want to spice it up with something, but I just wish that something was more enjoyable and less nauseating.
Havoc was the most boring thing in the universe before mover. Literally a two button spec in SL. Zipping around is literally its thing. If you don't like that, there's vengeance and other classes.
theyve never 'hidden' how simplistic the class is for me to play it tbh , which is hypocritical of me cuz i love dev envoker and destro lock which are both pretty straight forward *shrug*
We can handle a bad set after some amazing ones. i absolutely love the Season 3 / 4 (Dragonflight) set for shamans. Season 2 was also very cool. And to be fair. A lot of Season 1 sets (TWW) look pretty bad with some exceptions.
I agree with vespeeral. The class fantasy is there but the buton bloat os still too much. Enhancement was the first class I played, when you only has stormstrike and you crossed your Fingers to have a full windfury proc, it was so simple but fun at the same. nowadays the spec Just differs to much from that iteration, and how I said before, the buton bloat its Just too much, even with the mini rework, it still needs more pruning.
The difference between Arms Warrior and Enhance Shaman is so crazy. Arms warrior burst is second to none it feels like and Enhance shaman has no burst what so ever.
Honestly really good video, one thing I'll have to disagree on is your take on Havoc but I think it comes down to preference. I really love playing Inertia and/or momentum the fact that i can move around so much during combat is what makes the spec 10 times more enjoyable to me but I can definitely see why people don't like it
@@VesperalTVyes it has been like this in woltk my friend introduced to me with pvp and u move in pvp i played pve content later so for many years i had to use wasd so much in pve content too
Ain't seen it yet but I decided to play feral druid because druid of the claw fantasy hits it in a way I havent felt since like wrath. But I'll still support this and watch it❤
Agreed but it's nothing compared to the high high's we had in dragon flight season 2 and 3. It feels really dumbed down as well. I am a surv main since legion and for the first time I might switch, I was banking on the hero talents saving the spec to get back to what it was through most of shadow lands and dflight but it's all just passives :(
Hi Vesp, I have a UI question : how do you display your personal resource display while having plater enabled ? Mine has de "plater look" when plater is enabled, but I'd like to have it look like yours. Thanks for the good content, keep it up !
I remember when wrath of the lich King was released. Then unholy was extremely good aoe spec for death knights. I only did massive pulls while leveling. Dots on 5+ mobs. Death strike to heal to max in a second. It was a fun spec back then.
Sad story is though that you as an UHDK in AOE situations do not take the festering Scythe. As you lose out on more impactful damaging talents. Plauge and epidemic together with the San'layn hero talents are the top DPS abilities while Bursting wounds still suffer heavily on the cap that DnD gives..
How are the numbers for Havoc though compared to most other dps ? Is it on the higher side or is it on the lower side ? I dont mind the zip zap gameplay that much but if the numbers arent even there then I dont see the point.
I'm trying so hard to love this game now. Every time I go back to vanilla WOW and after a few wonderful months of peace and quiet, I find myself back here. Then I find myself trying to love playing this retail gameplay again. And I can't.
Its too many buttons. You play vanilla and its just right, just enough buttons maybe a few extra would be good but retail adds like 10 more to each class.
Talking about assa rogue, cold blood and thistle tea can be macroed perfectly and act like they dont exhist (but I encourage to use thistle tea at demand in the third charge to maintain the poison combo).
Gotta say I recently gave Frost DK a try after only really playing Unholy. I don't understand how people prefer pure obliterate builds over Breath of Sindragosa/Obliterate. Breath of Sindy is probably one of the coolest "mini game" cooldowns on a class I've played and cemented the class as my main for TWW. It will always feel more rewarding for me I think to get a good Breath of Sindragosa off over simply hitting a high damage obliterate, mostly because I don't really pay attention to the damage numbers on screen anyway. Also does anybody know if the Riders talent tree lets you ride any deathcharger or is it just going to be a default one that the other horseman ride? Like what if I want to use midnight? its a deathcharger too!
I don't get how Survival Hunter's most iconic character in the lore is Rexxar and his ultimate spell in wc3 was Stampede. ...Where's stampede? that'd be a SICK cooldown. Just summon a bunch of beasts running toward enemies as a big Cooldown for survival instead of some boring damage increase. Don't make them auto attack, make them run through/over enemies just like in wc3. Alas, thanks for the video!
Enhance is the only spec ive ever played (aside from outlaw) where you feel like youre pumping and doing good shit then you look at your details and you're doing ass. Took me a while to get used to it but I concur with your take on ice strike. Terrible ability and it should go
Sub rogue main here. Yeah the buttons in the openers can be a bit much in the most recent patch not so much not SnD is granted on use of evis as a passive effect. I don't know if I like to play clunky playstyles but I dunno for some reason everytime I play sub rogue I dunno it just feels right.
I think they feel Frost Death Knight is so easy to play the Death and Decay thing adds a later of challenge and complexity missing to the spec, which I understand but it still feels really bad to play - especially in PuGs where the tank will often move the mobs out of your DnD. Spells like Mage's Rune of Power were removed for similar reasons. I can't really play the spec for this reason even though it's the easiest or 2nd easiest Melee spec to play in the game. I'd rather have a more complicated rotation if it meant they would fix DnD to be an aura that stays around the Death Knight.
I'd really like for rogue to get more mobility options outside of grappling hook or shadowstep... Imagine Subtlety rogue having shadow clones that they can swap places with, or Outlaw getting one of those stylish jump and shoot moves I don't know, for me rogue is simply not fun because all the animations look samy, while other classes have flashy moves and stylish animations
One thing I miss in Arms: double mortal strike. But in general, I think the rotation is way too boring for a master at arms. It needs something like combos.
You have very similar tastes to me. I want to love Frost and Unholy but the D&D thing is such a problem for me right now. I’m probably going to start off maining WW. I wish I didn’t, but I do care about the numbers so if it ends up being garbage DPS I’ll pick up either warrior, DK, ret, or enhance (all of which I enjoy) depending on what’s crushing damage.
@@borgirlol the real problem is (1) dnd doesn’t feel great to press on its own for me and (2) fight movement is still a problem even with the 4 second grace window they added. IMO, Remorseless winter should replace DND for frost.
Try DW Obliteration for frost DK. Your frost strike will do massive dmg by exploding your razorice. Makes it more fun to press other buttons then Obliterate.
Wow! This was a fantastic breakdown of all the melee specs in The War Within! As someone that doesn't have as much time to play things like betas due to my fulltime job and real life (sorry I'm not video game addicted) this is super helpful for me so thankyou so much VesperalTV! Due to the job I just mentioned I actually have incredibly high IQ so I do not play any melee specs, they are far too simple and ranged is much harder so I lean towards that archetype. But if I wanted a melee alt I would use this fantastic video for when I'm having one of those low IQ days! Thankyou so much for helping me make that choice! Very much looking forwards to the ranged counterpart!
usually I dont watch any videos due to my fulltime job and real life (sorry I'm not youtube addicted), but it makes me really happy to see like minded people that also have an iincredibly high IQ. Your comment just made my day a bit better and encouraged me in my decision to play ranged, because just as you mentioned, they are much harder which simply scratches the itch of my powerfull mind and i dont have the time to play multiple specs (sorry I'm not video game addicted).
I played rogue in vanilla and tbc. With the build you get prepariton, cold blood and ambush. Even then it was not a rocket science. Rogue now goes to mars. Gz devs.
I've been a Shammy player for most of my WoW career, and Enhance is so good right now. However, my main going into TWW is going to be Fury Warr. Fury is just tons of fun and the damage is pretty insane. Plus having Arms to fall back on if it gets nerfed is really nice. I considered DK, but I feel there will be a glut of them in TWW and that's no fun when trying to get raid spots. Survival should be higher. On the flip side, I find WW to be kind of clunky and wasn't nearly as fun as I had hoped. Ret is a great spec, but it's actually too easy. Same with Havok. I got bored with them really quickly. Rouge needs a complete rework on all specs. Feral has so much potential, but Blizz just can't get it there for some reason.
Man, even people with admittedly little experience with sin rogue instantly point out deathstalker plays horribly on sin. Haven't found one review saying it feels good. At least the damage is top tier for now.
I'm always curious if people who say "button bloat" know how to properly bind, there are 15 single keys you can use surrounding WASD, so that's 30 if you add shift. How is that not enough?
Just cause you can bind 30 keys doesn't mean anyone wants to press 30 keys 😂 I'm sure maybe 1% of the player base enjoys that, and they can play enhancement if so.
@@spamstabber i play enhancement :) , but I also swapped to sub for mythic tindral. I think button bloat is only an issue when the DPS isn't worth it. Most players would press 30 buttons if it meant they topped meters.
@@spamstabber i really dont get how ppl complain about enhance being a button bloat spec. i still have empty actionbars after setting everything up. elementalist build, sure, thats button bloat, but play storm build, its super fun, relatively easy and pretty strong
Had the most fun of my life with DFA and shuriken combo in Legion as a Sub rogue. Ever since the start of BFA they have removed the spec identity and the fun button. Then they went and gave Shadow Dance to all rogue specs so not only did we have our fun abilities been removed; they gave what makes sub, sub, to everyone else. I've been waiting for the devs to finally give sub it's prio target identity back but then they went and gave Assa Caustic spatter instead when it should have been a Sub ability that would have finally made Eviscerate good in AOE. I fear that now that Sub has Black Powder there's no going back and it'll forever be a bland boring spec. I've stopped being active in the rogue discord giving suggestions when the class dev is in there and hoping for a return to a version of Sub that is good and now in TWW I have given up and re-rolled to a different class.
@@VesperalTV Is it out yet brother? EDIT: I saw it is, make sure to send a message in the "plater" channel because the old message still says "(Dragonflight)"
I played Survival Hunter for a very long time and im not a fan of the rework, i benched it and went with Feral for Tww. Keeping the Ret for backup though😂
I feel like they did Havoc so dirty in TWW but maybe it's a skill issue for me too lmao. I'm gonna keep practicing until I can consistently surpass my buddy on Retpally.
Good vid but i wish people who dont play Havoc would stop complaining about movement builds. If you want to stand still, any other melee fits your bill.
Some of the things are nitpicky, like saying avatar and recklessness shouldnt be on the same spec, they have rhe same cooldown, macro them together. less button mash. overall an awesome concise video though. cheers!
Man, I totally understand that these things are completely subjective and you're entitled to your opinions, but your takes on rogue are really dumb to me. Don't get me wrong, rogue is in a rough spot, and the hero talents are a big ol' swing and a miss, but... 1. Sub does not have 9 cooldowns in any actual real talent build, and a third of those can just be macro'd in to other buttons, further reducing the numbers. There are definitely still too many, Flagellation should have never stayed in the game after SL, but it is not nearly as bad as you say. 2. You think Sub would be more fun if Rupture AND SnD was removed, and it was a 4 button spec? Backstab/Ambush + Evisc in ST and Shuriken Storm + Black Powder in AoE? Hell no, it needs Rupture and to a far lesser extent SnD to not feel so brainless. It would still feel fine without SnD, I don't feel strongly about it either way, but it would be so much more boring without Rupture. 3. Base energy regen should be buffed so that you never have any periods where you're waiting on energy, thereby removing the usefulness of Thistle Tea? Then...what, exactly, is the point of energy? It's fine for not all classes to be GCD-locked. 4. Deathstalker for Assassination is flawed, but you really overstate how bad it is. You need to Ambush *once* in the stealth window, and then that single Mark can be carried throughout most of the rest of the dungeon thanks to the capstone node. It's not that big of a deal, and well worth the payoff of cleaving the giant Envenom's through Caustic Spatter. Again, not trying to directly flame, big respect for what you've been doing throughout this beta cycle, just annoying to hear those kind of suggestions when the problems are either overstated or the suggested solutions would just make the class way more boring to play and one dimensional.
I want to love enhancement… but Jesus Christ I HATE lava lash and I ABSOLUTELY HATE primordial wave - and being forced to utilize those buttons even when I’m trying to play a SS-spammy, storm based build pisses me off to no end 😢
Yeah I tried havoc at the start of df, got wrecked by mechanics a couple of times because of momentum, even dashed into a hole on terros on pull. Immediately rerolled back to enhance, beautiful life. Yeah that momentum build just makes you hate the game. It's a piece of shit in a game that's full of spells and geound effects flying everywhere around you.
I agree with sub rogue but, you just macro all your CDs together lol.. if you REALLY care about min max you can press dance and symbols separate so you don't miss pandemic window but you macro your cold blood to sec tech and shadowblades/dance/symbols/trinket/pot all macrod as well
Totemic is anything but well designed. Its actually one of the worst designed hero talents and unless it is completely reworked it will never be taken over stormbringer.
Might have missed if someone else commented this but for every rogue spec slice and dice is just refreshed everytime they use their main finishing move. That's why they removed it from underhanded upperhand since youll just naturally never drop it anymore
Gonna main Ret and my alt will be DK. There's still nothing as smooth as Ret to be honest. DK got a lot of love but it still has that god awful ramp up because of stupid Death and Decay. I have no idea why they just didn't make it an aura.
Outlaw was good starting end of shadow lands into the start of dragon flight. Rogues will be great once the hero talent has been tweaked. Rogues always eat. Every single xpac, rogues are good. Never had an off xpac, I dont think this will be the first.
@@HardtoReach yeah rogues should be good just like mages, since they only have dps specs, i just hope it wont be like DF where all 3 specs were top 3 or top 4 on the dmg list
The War Within EPIC Edition GIVEAWAY live on my twitter! Link in description❤
imo, frost DKs shouldnt have death and decay. remorseless winter should have charges and a shorter CD and replace D&D.
yep, dnd feels clunky as fuck, I agree that winter should take its place, and imo it should get the same treatment as ret's consecration got, which is automatic when using blade of justice.
I agree 100%, I don’t think DnD feels right as frost and I think RW should fully replace it or PoF could be our Oblit enabler.
Seriously DaD (😂) should be for unholy but eh wishful thinking
Been watching your content since the beginning of S3 Df and it just occurred to me how much of a help you've been and I've never left any comments or anything.
Amazing guides and content. Your plater profile was a complete GAMECHANGER for me in M+ too. Thanks a lot man. Keep up the good work
that means the world dude honestly, glad i could help!
What plater profile video did you see? looking for it as well
As a rogue main, I completely agree with you on sub. I have not enjoyed it the same after dragonflight way too much button bloat.
Saaaame bro. Been a Rogue main since Vanilla. Did play Havoc DH for about 50% of my time with Legion as I couldn’t believe Blizz legit made a more mobile and insanely fun class.
I’ve pushed through all the ups and downs thru the expacs. Spammable Burst of Speed was probably the most fun I’ve ever had in a video game ever (ended up FCing in high-rated RBGs - holy moly the mobility and Shadowstep outplays felt incredible to pull off).
We’ve truly lost it all at this point, man. It all went downhill when Outlaw was introduced in Legion (or BfA, I forget), and PvP already died after MoP IMHO.
I hate gamba games and now gamba is literally a core facet of a Rogue spec, lmao. I loved the class in Vanilla and originally picked it because I loved the idea of total *control*, and always mained Sub for arena/rbgs and Assa whenever it was BiS for parsing.
This is the first expansion I’m considering skipping entirely until a huge rework is announced. The fact that my one and only backup toon, my Havoc, is by most accounts awful as well, feels really depressing.
I did become a Classic Andy during the pandemic but dropped that version of the game the day the WoW token dropped. Maybe I’ll level another HC rogue with the community event in October, I guess…
Damn sry for the wall of text, guess I’m in a period of mourning lol. Hope you find solace in a particular spec or another class altogether, @yep330. o7
WoD was probably the most fun I've ever had on my rogue with all three specs.
Now, I'd like to see combat be more of a duelist style. Idk where this pirate theme came from, but I've just never been a fan. The addition of gun abilities and rolling dices took me out of my rogue immersion. It sucks cause I want swords on my rogue, but the play style that has swords continues to push me away from it.
I get that for the last seasons in DF where you wanted to press every Sub cd individually at different times for small optimizations. But rn you can just macro SB, SD, SoD and TT together. CB you could always macro into SecTech. So I really dont see the issue right now.
@@OutplayedqtHey mate, I've mained rogue since 2005 and stopped after MoP. I came back with the ar within and good god this class isn't rogue anymore, I also hilariously picked sub with the character boost and I was nearly going to quit again when I saw how hard it was! I rolled an evoker for fun and I seem to do about 3x the damage with 10x less effort. But man I miss rogue.
Anytime they make frost DK not 2H optimal they kill the spec for me.
Arthas didn’t wield 2 kitchen knives, he wielded the 2H frostmourne.
I like how you were being nice weaving in other specs in between the rogue, instead of flat out saying all the specs from rogue are awful.
That 4 horseman is going to be so bad ass. I cant wait to UH DK
Paladin and Deathknight will be my mains at the next expansion pack!
Feral has been through so many ups and downs but I continue to hold onto my feral main, she's my emotional support character
Its been like this for years for me but i have to draw the line in tww... its just yet again back to all bites no bleeds. Fucking dev are going back on their own words. Disgraceful
That's called Stockholm syndrome.
I freaking LOVE Ret Paladin! I've been relearning everything after coming back since the end of MoP, played Shadow Priest, Druid, and just in love with how tanky and fluid the Paladin is right now to me at least.
Yea the DF rework made them really fun
@@TheShawnMower Iunno, I used to love ret, and I still love the paladin class fantasy, but they've cut the buttons down a bit too much at this point. we're pressing like 4 buttons for our rotation, it kinda sucks. those 4 buttons feel impactful, sure, but it feels a bit too lean
@@richardsmall5265ugh don’t worry you’ll have plenty of mechanics to dodge while doing the rotation to keep you busy.
Feral is back to old days energy regen.
We 2008 again bois
Better go get your Wolfshead Helm now
But not old days bleeds😢 just bite bite bite.... sucks assss
Great video. First one I've watched. You explain really well why you like the specs in reasonable time.
Absolutely my favourite wow creator (promise its not english bias ha), keep it up man, love the insight!
After playing WW in remix i agree the spec feels fast, snappy, does great damage, i would recommend it
I’ve loved monk since I picked it up in Shadowlands. Kicking myself from not giving it a real shot when it came out.
As a casual player who hates any downtime and strategizing between packs Ret Paladin has been awesome. I tried it for the first time in TWW and its the most fun i had in wow yet, since my biggest CD is 30 seconds i dont have to worry about it too much and im just always pumping damage. Even a low level player like me can do really well with this gameplay style and i never feel like im letting down my group because of skill issues.
I never coment in any vídeo from world of warcraft content creators but you rock, i like the WAY you explain things and give your own opinion and dont think about the others wow content creators saying what is going to be meta or not. I play like you every single new expasion i play what feels more fun to me and i still get high elo if its not meta. I advice people to choose what they think its more fun to play.
Keep the good work.
Couldn't agree more on the Havoc Demon Hunter. Such a fun specc ruined by the constant need to zip around making me motion sick. I wish they could find some other way to add complexity to the specc. As a baseline it's a bit too simplistic maybe, so I understand why they want to spice it up with something, but I just wish that something was more enjoyable and less nauseating.
Jesus Christ.
Havoc was the most boring thing in the universe before mover. Literally a two button spec in SL. Zipping around is literally its thing. If you don't like that, there's vengeance and other classes.
Also I'm bored of it. Mained it for DF and it's basically the same in beta and the hero talents are so generic
theyve never 'hidden' how simplistic the class is for me to play it tbh , which is hypocritical of me cuz i love dev envoker and destro lock which are both pretty straight forward *shrug*
Thanks for the dialogue on sub rogue - it validated a lot of what I was feeling when playing it.
WW, Unholy and Enh my favs
Shaman is really fun, it’s just too bad that whoever made their armor was blind and made the set look like absolute trash.
lmfaooo its bad
We can handle a bad set after some amazing ones. i absolutely love the Season 3 / 4 (Dragonflight) set for shamans. Season 2 was also very cool.
And to be fair. A lot of Season 1 sets (TWW) look pretty bad with some exceptions.
will never be switching from the challenge mode MoP set on my shammy
I agree with vespeeral. The class fantasy is there but the buton bloat os still too much. Enhancement was the first class I played, when you only has stormstrike and you crossed your Fingers to have a full windfury proc, it was so simple but fun at the same. nowadays the spec Just differs to much from that iteration, and how I said before, the buton bloat its Just too much, even with the mini rework, it still needs more pruning.
The difference between Arms Warrior and Enhance Shaman is so crazy. Arms warrior burst is second to none it feels like and Enhance shaman has no burst what so ever.
Fury has been really fun so far. I leveled all the way to 80 with a controller only and it was very smooth and enjoyable
Honestly really good video, one thing I'll have to disagree on is your take on Havoc but I think it comes down to preference. I really love playing Inertia and/or momentum the fact that i can move around so much during combat is what makes the spec 10 times more enjoyable to me but I can definitely see why people don't like it
yeah maybe thats just me! can appreciate some people enjoy the movement
We all like something different in the end that's what makes it fun!
@@VesperalTVyes it has been like this in woltk my friend introduced to me with pvp and u move in pvp i played pve content later so for many years i had to use wasd so much in pve content too
Ain't seen it yet but I decided to play feral druid because druid of the claw fantasy hits it in a way I havent felt since like wrath. But I'll still support this and watch it❤
fantasy is for sure cool!
I would say the high point of survival is when you have triple explosive shots it's so nice
Agreed but it's nothing compared to the high high's we had in dragon flight season 2 and 3. It feels really dumbed down as well. I am a surv main since legion and for the first time I might switch, I was banking on the hero talents saving the spec to get back to what it was through most of shadow lands and dflight but it's all just passives :(
Hi Vesp, I have a UI question : how do you display your personal resource display while having plater enabled ? Mine has de "plater look" when plater is enabled, but I'd like to have it look like yours. Thanks for the good content, keep it up !
can someone please make a tierlist of all the tierlist? So I know which is S-Tier trustworthy
I remember when wrath of the lich King was released. Then unholy was extremely good aoe spec for death knights. I only did massive pulls while leveling. Dots on 5+ mobs. Death strike to heal to max in a second. It was a fun spec back then.
Sad story is though that you as an UHDK in AOE situations do not take the festering Scythe. As you lose out on more impactful damaging talents. Plauge and epidemic together with the San'layn hero talents are the top DPS abilities while Bursting wounds still suffer heavily on the cap that DnD gives..
How are the numbers for Havoc though compared to most other dps ? Is it on the higher side or is it on the lower side ? I dont mind the zip zap gameplay that much but if the numbers arent even there then I dont see the point.
Amen! Subtle is Button BLOAT!
I'm trying so hard to love this game now. Every time I go back to vanilla WOW and after a few wonderful months of peace and quiet, I find myself back here. Then I find myself trying to love playing this retail gameplay again. And I can't.
Its too many buttons. You play vanilla and its just right, just enough buttons maybe a few extra would be good but retail adds like 10 more to each class.
Talking about assa rogue, cold blood and thistle tea can be macroed perfectly and act like they dont exhist (but I encourage to use thistle tea at demand in the third charge to maintain the poison combo).
Wait, didn't they have a patch note a couple weeks ago saying they were pushing Feral away from Bite spam? Guess that didn't work lmao.
Hey nice list! Will you also do a healer ranking? :)
Gotta say I recently gave Frost DK a try after only really playing Unholy. I don't understand how people prefer pure obliterate builds over Breath of Sindragosa/Obliterate. Breath of Sindy is probably one of the coolest "mini game" cooldowns on a class I've played and cemented the class as my main for TWW. It will always feel more rewarding for me I think to get a good Breath of Sindragosa off over simply hitting a high damage obliterate, mostly because I don't really pay attention to the damage numbers on screen anyway.
Also does anybody know if the Riders talent tree lets you ride any deathcharger or is it just going to be a default one that the other horseman ride? Like what if I want to use midnight? its a deathcharger too!
I don't get how Survival Hunter's most iconic character in the lore is Rexxar and his ultimate spell in wc3 was Stampede.
...Where's stampede? that'd be a SICK cooldown. Just summon a bunch of beasts running toward enemies as a big Cooldown for survival instead of some boring damage increase. Don't make them auto attack, make them run through/over enemies just like in wc3. Alas, thanks for the video!
Huh I always thought he was beast master,
Enhance or Fury? I can't decide🤣
I'm in the same situation! I only have time for 1 main and 1 alt (range dps)
Enhancement if you are skilled, fury if zug zug.
I’ve been playing wow for almost 20 years and never mained a warrior. I will be going fury this time around.
Same here! I guess I am going to main Mountain Thane Fury first and go with the Stormbringer Shaman as my alt. It feels safer this way. Good luck tho
@@esemteh that’s a good shout!
Great list, I personally enjoy Unholy and frost more than enhancement but otherwise agree with every ranking
Enhance is the only spec ive ever played (aside from outlaw) where you feel like youre pumping and doing good shit then you look at your details and you're doing ass. Took me a while to get used to it but I concur with your take on ice strike. Terrible ability and it should go
Three expansions in a row they still haven't figured it out.
Hahaha!
straight doin ass for sure.
You were 💯 on my exact feeling. Hella cool spec and wish they would put some time into it and get it dialed
Feral Druid main here. Super sad it seems I’m going to be worthless according to a lot of videos
I am finally rerolling, cba with blizzard devs anymore
Sub rogue main here. Yeah the buttons in the openers can be a bit much in the most recent patch not so much not SnD is granted on use of evis as a passive effect. I don't know if I like to play clunky playstyles but I dunno for some reason everytime I play sub rogue I dunno it just feels right.
I think they feel Frost Death Knight is so easy to play the Death and Decay thing adds a later of challenge and complexity missing to the spec, which I understand but it still feels really bad to play - especially in PuGs where the tank will often move the mobs out of your DnD. Spells like Mage's Rune of Power were removed for similar reasons. I can't really play the spec for this reason even though it's the easiest or 2nd easiest Melee spec to play in the game. I'd rather have a more complicated rotation if it meant they would fix DnD to be an aura that stays around the Death Knight.
I believe you have be stood in the dnd and not the enemys
not everything needs to be a piano spec, let people enjoy the very few simple specs
Demon hunter tank zipping around pullijg thr mobs out of my dnd while my slow ass takes 3 to 5 business days to catch up
I'd really like for rogue to get more mobility options outside of grappling hook or shadowstep... Imagine Subtlety rogue having shadow clones that they can swap places with, or Outlaw getting one of those stylish jump and shoot moves
I don't know, for me rogue is simply not fun because all the animations look samy, while other classes have flashy moves and stylish animations
One thing I miss in Arms: double mortal strike. But in general, I think the rotation is way too boring for a master at arms. It needs something like combos.
You have very similar tastes to me. I want to love Frost and Unholy but the D&D thing is such a problem for me right now. I’m probably going to start off maining WW. I wish I didn’t, but I do care about the numbers so if it ends up being garbage DPS I’ll pick up either warrior, DK, ret, or enhance (all of which I enjoy) depending on what’s crushing damage.
try this macro for DD , super easy to spam oblits after it
#showtooltip Death and Decay
/cast [@player] Death and Decay
@@borgirlol the real problem is (1) dnd doesn’t feel great to press on its own for me and (2) fight movement is still a problem even with the 4 second grace window they added.
IMO, Remorseless winter should replace DND for frost.
Try DW Obliteration for frost DK. Your frost strike will do massive dmg by exploding your razorice. Makes it more fun to press other buttons then Obliterate.
Only i issue i have is how much there is for new players to learn before being able to be good.
Wow! This was a fantastic breakdown of all the melee specs in The War Within! As someone that doesn't have as much time to play things like betas due to my fulltime job and real life (sorry I'm not video game addicted) this is super helpful for me so thankyou so much VesperalTV! Due to the job I just mentioned I actually have incredibly high IQ so I do not play any melee specs, they are far too simple and ranged is much harder so I lean towards that archetype. But if I wanted a melee alt I would use this fantastic video for when I'm having one of those low IQ days! Thankyou so much for helping me make that choice! Very much looking forwards to the ranged counterpart!
Lol low IQ for melee classes? If I want to relax I go ranged…
usually I dont watch any videos due to my fulltime job and real life (sorry I'm not youtube addicted), but it makes me really happy to see like minded people that also have an iincredibly high IQ.
Your comment just made my day a bit better and encouraged me in my decision to play ranged, because just as you mentioned, they are much harder which simply scratches the itch of my powerfull mind and i dont have the time to play multiple specs (sorry I'm not video game addicted).
for feral they decreased the points you get. Which is bad but I'm excepting they buff the damage on all abilities later
Great video.
God I would do anything for BFA DH back. I hate having to zip around the map
I played rogue in vanilla and tbc. With the build you get prepariton, cold blood and ambush. Even then it was not a rocket science. Rogue now goes to mars. Gz devs.
I've been a Shammy player for most of my WoW career, and Enhance is so good right now. However, my main going into TWW is going to be Fury Warr. Fury is just tons of fun and the damage is pretty insane. Plus having Arms to fall back on if it gets nerfed is really nice. I considered DK, but I feel there will be a glut of them in TWW and that's no fun when trying to get raid spots. Survival should be higher. On the flip side, I find WW to be kind of clunky and wasn't nearly as fun as I had hoped. Ret is a great spec, but it's actually too easy. Same with Havok. I got bored with them really quickly. Rouge needs a complete rework on all specs. Feral has so much potential, but Blizz just can't get it there for some reason.
Metaslave. Fury is going to be the first hit with the nerf hammer. Enjoy while it lasts though
“Assassination is a lot of work” you can say that again
Man, even people with admittedly little experience with sin rogue instantly point out deathstalker plays horribly on sin. Haven't found one review saying it feels good. At least the damage is top tier for now.
Enhancement gonna be lit 🙏🏻💪🏼
Fel rush/momentum gameplay changes shoulda been considered a war crime against gamers
I'm always curious if people who say "button bloat" know how to properly bind, there are 15 single keys you can use surrounding WASD, so that's 30 if you add shift. How is that not enough?
Just cause you can bind 30 keys doesn't mean anyone wants to press 30 keys 😂
I'm sure maybe 1% of the player base enjoys that, and they can play enhancement if so.
@@spamstabber i play enhancement :) , but I also swapped to sub for mythic tindral. I think button bloat is only an issue when the DPS isn't worth it. Most players would press 30 buttons if it meant they topped meters.
@@spamstabber i really dont get how ppl complain about enhance being a button bloat spec. i still have empty actionbars after setting everything up. elementalist build, sure, thats button bloat, but play storm build, its super fun, relatively easy and pretty strong
Had the most fun of my life with DFA and shuriken combo in Legion as a Sub rogue. Ever since the start of BFA they have removed the spec identity and the fun button. Then they went and gave Shadow Dance to all rogue specs so not only did we have our fun abilities been removed; they gave what makes sub, sub, to everyone else. I've been waiting for the devs to finally give sub it's prio target identity back but then they went and gave Assa Caustic spatter instead when it should have been a Sub ability that would have finally made Eviscerate good in AOE. I fear that now that Sub has Black Powder there's no going back and it'll forever be a bland boring spec. I've stopped being active in the rogue discord giving suggestions when the class dev is in there and hoping for a return to a version of Sub that is good and now in TWW I have given up and re-rolled to a different class.
At this point they should let the dev who worked on Ret have a go at the rogue specs
When are you releasing the updated Plater profile for TWW? Big fan and discord member here : ) ty buddy
Wednesday!
@@VesperalTV Is it out yet brother?
EDIT: I saw it is, make sure to send a message in the "plater" channel because the old message still says "(Dragonflight)"
I played Survival Hunter for a very long time and im not a fan of the rework, i benched it and went with Feral for Tww. Keeping the Ret for backup though😂
What is not to like about the rework?
@@jonoxisI don't know if it's just me but I get focus capped quite a bit. It's definitely not as smooth
i´m so in between enhancer and assa xD what should i do?
I cant find an alt to my beloved Ret Paladin. I love Paladin so much
Movement based gameplay sucks, FREEHAVOC!
Great video, binging your content tonight and really enjoying it.
Havoc is horrid, the resource gains and spends feel bad, I feel like I’m either capped or have no resource. The movement stuff is icing on the cake.
Every time I'm hopeful for Survival to be top of the foodchain, I'm let down.
Ya boy's pumping vids like a BOIEAST!
I feel like they did Havoc so dirty in TWW but maybe it's a skill issue for me too lmao. I'm gonna keep practicing until I can consistently surpass my buddy on Retpally.
I wonder if the rogue lead got sacked or left and they’ve just dropped in some dumb placeholders, behind the scenes
i read somewhere that they were promoted and someone took their place
Good vid but i wish people who dont play Havoc would stop complaining about movement builds. If you want to stand still, any other melee fits your bill.
Some of the things are nitpicky, like saying avatar and recklessness shouldnt be on the same spec, they have rhe same cooldown, macro them together. less button mash. overall an awesome concise video though. cheers!
Is there a summary of your ranking?
I really wanna play DK but I just feel like Death and Decay is one of the worst feeling buttons to press in the game
Why not just smash the obliterates and ignore frost strike when you have too much runic power
So you are maining enhance?
Man, I totally understand that these things are completely subjective and you're entitled to your opinions, but your takes on rogue are really dumb to me. Don't get me wrong, rogue is in a rough spot, and the hero talents are a big ol' swing and a miss, but...
1. Sub does not have 9 cooldowns in any actual real talent build, and a third of those can just be macro'd in to other buttons, further reducing the numbers. There are definitely still too many, Flagellation should have never stayed in the game after SL, but it is not nearly as bad as you say.
2. You think Sub would be more fun if Rupture AND SnD was removed, and it was a 4 button spec? Backstab/Ambush + Evisc in ST and Shuriken Storm + Black Powder in AoE? Hell no, it needs Rupture and to a far lesser extent SnD to not feel so brainless. It would still feel fine without SnD, I don't feel strongly about it either way, but it would be so much more boring without Rupture.
3. Base energy regen should be buffed so that you never have any periods where you're waiting on energy, thereby removing the usefulness of Thistle Tea? Then...what, exactly, is the point of energy? It's fine for not all classes to be GCD-locked.
4. Deathstalker for Assassination is flawed, but you really overstate how bad it is. You need to Ambush *once* in the stealth window, and then that single Mark can be carried throughout most of the rest of the dungeon thanks to the capstone node. It's not that big of a deal, and well worth the payoff of cleaving the giant Envenom's through Caustic Spatter.
Again, not trying to directly flame, big respect for what you've been doing throughout this beta cycle, just annoying to hear those kind of suggestions when the problems are either overstated or the suggested solutions would just make the class way more boring to play and one dimensional.
I want to love enhancement… but Jesus Christ I HATE lava lash and I ABSOLUTELY HATE primordial wave - and being forced to utilize those buttons even when I’m trying to play a SS-spammy, storm based build pisses me off to no end 😢
Hmmm Survivar H or Fury?
This list is based on fun? because there's no way Sin rogue is down there when it's dealing the highest damage out of every single melle dps.
Yeah I tried havoc at the start of df, got wrecked by mechanics a couple of times because of momentum, even dashed into a hole on terros on pull. Immediately rerolled back to enhance, beautiful life. Yeah that momentum build just makes you hate the game. It's a piece of shit in a game that's full of spells and geound effects flying everywhere around you.
I agree with sub rogue but, you just macro all your CDs together lol.. if you REALLY care about min max you can press dance and symbols separate so you don't miss pandemic window but you macro your cold blood to sec tech and shadowblades/dance/symbols/trinket/pot all macrod as well
Currently the best ww hero talent sadly is shado-pan
funny enough I've always hated survival but now I might be maining it lol
Ye, idk if my alt should be enh or assa.. My main will be frost though fkn love that shit
Totemic is anything but well designed. Its actually one of the worst designed hero talents and unless it is completely reworked it will never be taken over stormbringer.
Whats the best for m+ ? Frost / Unholy / windwalker ?
I heared Arcane Mage is op ? 🫤
Might have missed if someone else commented this but for every rogue spec slice and dice is just refreshed everytime they use their main finishing move. That's why they removed it from underhanded upperhand since youll just naturally never drop it anymore
I think about my rogue imma go full outlaw this expansion but prolly ill just bench it for my hunter and mage xD
THISTLE TEA NEEDS TO GO.
Gonna main Ret and my alt will be DK. There's still nothing as smooth as Ret to be honest. DK got a lot of love but it still has that god awful ramp up because of stupid Death and Decay. I have no idea why they just didn't make it an aura.
It's weird seeing Outlaw and Havoc being at the lower end of the food chain, they are usually always top. I think i like this new expansion pack.
Outlaw was good starting end of shadow lands into the start of dragon flight. Rogues will be great once the hero talent has been tweaked. Rogues always eat. Every single xpac, rogues are good. Never had an off xpac, I dont think this will be the first.
@@HardtoReach yeah rogues should be good just like mages, since they only have dps specs, i just hope it wont be like DF where all 3 specs were top 3 or top 4 on the dmg list
i was main havoc from legion release and loved it but back to SL/dragonflight i hate what they have done to it and never gonna touch dh more
Using fel rush in combat feeeels so bad. Why did they do that to DH :( Also rogue getting shanked for how long now :(
I like waiting around for energy
Top tier shit as usual Vesp. I’ll just ignore your opinions though and roll rogue 😂
ELEMENTALIST ENHANCE GANG RISE UP
Ass certainly does NOT have an energy issues. That's a skill issue brah -- Read Venomous Wounds talent.
Enhance is perfect don't reduce the amount of buttons it's the most fun class I've ever played! Fix totemic but don't destroy the spec!
PLs dont say dk pls dont say dk... fuck he said dk. Prepare for the nerf bat dudes.