Good observation. Stone age man was pretty smart. They built with perfect fit 100 ton stones we couldn't do today. So now we are stone age again. Progress!!!
M-Discs DVD's can be read in any DVD player, the "M-Disc certified drive" requirement is only for writing on them since they need a more powerful laser to etch that material.
Despite everyday storage exploding into the 21st century, long term archival data storage is still very far behind, most people have no long term data storage plans.
it blows my mind that in 2020 there is still no real solution for long term archival data storage, M-disc seems to be the best bet so far. hopefully they will increase the storage capacity some day
@@SquidkidMega the only way I could see optical discs being improved is with stronger more scratch resistant coatings(perhaps one of the newest Corning glasses?) or encased in housing similar to floppy disks/psp discs and more stable dyes as well as a larger storage capacity. Optical has got to be the most reliable and forgiving long term physical storage medium available to the common consumer, would love to see it developed further.
@@ExplainingComputers I have been looking into a long term storage method. The only thing I could find was 5D optical glass storage. It's supposed to last a couple million years, so that's probably long enough. Only problem is that I can't find how far along the development is. I read that Elon must received 2 of them, and that they transfered a superman movie on one to see how it would work. If you ask me they should invest into the development and get them on the market as soon as possible. It's a no brainer for me, that I would buy one.
Magnectic tape works fine for archival, big companies use them for important data, it's slow, but if you take good care they will last a lot longer than ssds hds and dvds, plus they're cheap and have redundantly gigantic storage sizes
As a neurotic archiver with multiple redundant backups this interest me greatly. Three backup HDs have suddenly died on me in the past two months so I was looking for a reliable yet cheap solution. I have a library of DVDs that I have to re read every six months or so because sometimes they just suddenly can't be read; the humid and hot climate of where I live corrodes them quickly. This is the solution many of us have been waiting. Thanks a lot professor.
Hey there! After 7 years do you still use this for backups? I'm interested into archiving my files for a long term. I was convinced to use SSD's but I'v come across this format, dou you recomend it?
@@MiguelLopez-lr9db SSD? you better off saving those to HDD... yes the mechanical parts MAY fail... but the data could still potentially be recovered. Additionally, i am too curious about the original commenter's M Discs
I have converted all my old VHS videos and old family photos to digital, and one of the media I have used is the m-disc dvd and bluray. I hope they never have to be used as a last resort one day, but I can at least sleep a bit more peacefully knowing that I have done everything I can and in my power to preserve the memories of my family and deceased mother
Great video that I just stumbled across. I was in charge of a Digital Archive department for a company that supplied data services to mutual funds. I started testing M-Disc in 2009 or 2010 and was impressed with the potential for our customers. Ultimately it came down to cost vs advantage. We purchased 10K to 20K blank disks per month for production at $.43 each. M-Disc in DVD format were about $5 each - over 10 times the cost. I could not convince top management that the advantage to our customers was worth the added expense. I retired in 2011 and still have stacks of M-Discs and burners.
"I also tried it on this Sony machine that was recently dug up from an archaeological site.. I believe it was made by the Romans." Love British humor and its quintessential deadpan / understated delivery. And as a fellow albeit realatively newly minted M Disc enthusiast.... Great info!
Burnt my first cd-r in 1995, also warez, also still works. The gold discs I used cost £7 each and there was no buffer under-run protection so if the pc decided to do something unexpected whilst burning (at 1x) the disc was ruined. The drive cost about £400 iirc. It paid for itself pretty quickly as I used to sell discs crammed full of warez for £20 a pop. Diskjuggler was one of the burning programs I remember using, and yes, that one was also pirated lol.
Most cd-rs from that time used unstable cyanine dye tho not phaltocyanine or azo so unless it was stored in a cool dry place with no light all that time I find it hard to believe that it still reads fine
I used to work in an Antenna factory, and the guys there used to regularly test new designs of Antenna in a special chamber that could emulate 50 years of British weather. The Antennas used to come out looking all weathered and such, it was pretty cool to see :)
@@ExplainingComputers Yes, I am afraid I can't give you any good technical details as I wasn't directly involved, but I saw all the highly weathered looking Antennas and was told roughly what had happened to them. There was a sound proof chamber also, for testing microwaves. They say a sound proof room makes a person panic if left inside but I tried it for a good 15 minutes, and i found it quite relaxing. Many thanks.
I've got 25 year old CD's and DVD's that still work like they're brand new. Popped in an old PC game the other day and installed it... works perfect. Maybe 50 year update...
A word of caution: in an accelerated aging test conducted by the French Laboratoire National de Métrologie et d’Essais, the resilience of the M-Disc was found not to differ significantly from other reputable types of DVD-R. Only the GlassMasterDisc survived the test without errors, but it is no longer produced (it was basically a DVD custom-made out of glass in a cleanroom environment). Silica discs (Microsoft) or 5D optical storage might eventually replace it. And in 2022, it was reported that Verbatim no longer produces the M-Disc DVD-R's, and instead only produces a newer Blu-Ray version, which has never undergone independent accelerated aging tests.
M-Disc is pretty awesome especially for archiving video. It might be a good replacement over tape media but only time will tell how long it can really last.
@@laszu7137 But the tape drive (assuming roughly $1000) costs as much as (from Amazon) 6 TB of Milleniata M-Discs, or (from your own comment) 36 TB of LTO-5 tape. Furthermore, this isn't about price, but longevity. If it's about price, the cheapest up to roughly 30 TB is HDD, then tape (which, BTW, it has very slow random read/write performance due to it being linear).
The Technology changes so use every 5 Year the latest Backup tech.... So you have a fresh copy of your backup... Dont forgot about changing Media/Conectors/Software and so on... A IDE Harddisk is already usable but witch modern Motherbord support IDE ??? It will be same with SATA.... So keep you older Copies but go for the latest affordable technology.... Dont Forget 3 Copys are 1 Backup, set on 3 different Technologies and Physical different Places. So it must be relativelly save.
Yes I was on a dig in the ancient Londinium and we found a Sony CD101! I think it's on exhibit at the British Museum. We are working on a Pleistocene-era dig and hope to find a 'floppy disc' hopes run high...
Thanks for the great video! People are starting to be aware of their pecious memories being wiped out … I have 3,5” discs, ZIP100 drives and of course burned CD/DVD and plenty of hard drives. The oldest data I have is over 30 years old on 3,5” discs and slightly newer on ZIP100s. About 80-85% still works, and it also could be the device I’m using for them all to not open. So, not all is readable anymore. I’m seriously considering M-Disc 100GBs for archiving memories for future generations. I’m sure in 50-years time, we’d still have CD/DVD discs and spinners around…since they are so plenty in the world.
This video made my day :)! I came to learn more about the M-Discs that I now own for archival, but I came away with a much bigger smile and some LOL chuckles at your humor and your experiment! Thanks for your info AND all the fun :)!!
It's been over 7 years since the publication of this much appreciated and helpful video, and I was wondering if you're still using M-Discs for data archival. It may be material worth for an "data archival revisited" video in the near future! Thank you very much for your help spreading computer knowledge in such a clear and concise way!
Sadly Verbatim doesn't sell true m-disc's anymore. So even if he did make an update on this, it wouldn't be very helpful becaus you can't buy true m-disc discs anymore (other than old 4,7Gb from Millenniata)
@@halilsmith8162 Really? Are you sure about they no longer sell actual MDisks at all? Is there anything I can read about on that? Would be a real shame if true.
@@AbsurdScandal 1) This channel just did an updated video about different storage options and their longevity. 2) it lead me to look into buying m discs, and from what I’ve read so far there’s a strong consensus that the Verbatim discs sold as “M” are now an upgraded version of their regular “archival” quality. But “gold” DVDrs and CDRs can last 50 years if you write them at 1x speed. There’s a lot of info available online on maximizing the technology that we can get hold of. 3) there’s a magnetic HDD utility called “Spinrite” that can be used to keep HDDs working much longer than average as well. I used to use it for recovery, but it’s great for the “magnetic refresh” they need when used as mostly-unpowered backups. It’s over thirty years old and still updated by the original software engineer.
@@JasonJrake 2) Doesn't Verbatim still sell DVD mdisks? The Blu Rays may most likely not be using the same mineral layer that the original DVD mdisks used, so are most likely an upgraded archival BD, but the DVDs may be true mdisks still.
@@raiogelato6921 They make fireproof safes that are designed for this, but it is worth noting that it's more useful if you live in a smaller home where the firefighters can get to the fire quickly, as they are more fire resistant than fireproof, but they will protect against water and heat, up to a point.
@@gazzarrr666 In a war or asteroid impact-type scenario, a disaster-proof safe (especially if stored in a basement underground, if such a space is available) would be invaluable, even compared to storing multiple copies in separate locations.
@@ExplainingComputers -- I suspect that if the water was not the nice clean water you subjected it to, your results would have been different. For example in a situation where the disk was subjected to a flood where the water might be muddy. Don't laugh, a lot of companies in Houston found out that storing their important paper and data in underground secure storage was not a good idea after Tropical Storm Allison... Here's a photo from the tunnel system that connects many of the large buildings in downtown Houston... lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/dpChEwFH6dHI7Dzrfx8OE6E5BV4SSVQsYsau4d6bwdqdij1x12490x1N-gKoxqQcy_PTAxraMD12rvXF3XzuYgQ That photo was taken by someone while the water was still flowing rapidly in there and rising. Apparently the person realize that it probably was not a good idea to stay around as the water rose above the electrical outlets in the wall. It would have eventually filled up the the entire tunnel system and stores located on that level and the city spent quite a bit of time pumping out all the water from the tunnel system. The disaster planning for the companies was more concerned about the potential for a hurricane and tornado destroying a building, so storing important things underground seemed like a good idea to them. The problem is that storing things underground is not a good idea if you have flooding due to a significant rain event (e.g. Tropical Storm Allison, Hurricane Harvey, etc). Houston has had floods for probably as long at it has been in existence. They will spend millions of dollars after a flood to modify the drainage, but all it does is make it where a place that didn't used to flood ends up flooding now. Here's a photo from 1935 where it flooded to the 2nd and 3rd floor of the downtown buildings: s.w-x.co//util/image/w/houston-1935-flood-HCFCD.jpg
I like that you took your time when you make videos; most other channels making videos like yours would have made 'update' videos after the first one to say "now the standard dvd is unreadable", then another saying "now the standard dvd is readable again". Instead, you make one concise video with none of the fluff-
I'm pretty sure the M-dics would be immune because it doesn't use a light sensitive die at all ... the DVD and other discs use some type of dye ... anyway that's my 2 cents
@@BlackieNuff Yep, cold isn't that bad for discs: chemical reactions that make the disk organic dyes decompose are accelerated by heat, not cold. A good rule of thumb is that for every 10 ºC increase, there's a doubling in the reaction rate.
I believe a UV test like what you are suggesting has been done by the US military and M-disc performed well under these circumstances. Here is a link to their report. www.esystor.com/images/China_Lake_Full_Report.pdf
I am using M-Disc as well, and I have had great results with it. I have yet to punish my discs the way you did, but I am glad to see that they are as hardy as advertised!
Very cool. Thank you for the vid. I actually hadn't heard of M-disk... and now that I've seen this I can think of several hundred DVDs and CDs worth of data that I should probably check out SOON, and consider consolidating and migrating.
It's funny hearing people say stuff like, there won't be dvd or blu ray players in 20, 100, or 1000 years or whatever. Are VCRs obsolete? Yes. Can you still get one if you need one....yes. As long as there is a need, those players will be around. Keep in mind that the government still has a treasure trove of data stored on magnetic media. Are there more convenient, faster, sexier types of media - sure. Hard drives and SD cards have a shelf life though. It's a matter of when, not if they'll go bad. Stored properly, CDs and DVDs will last a long while (I still have CDs that are readable and usable from the 1990s) because I stored them properly and have avoided humidity and scratches. Anyway, Mdisc is (currently) the most reliable form of media for data archiving. If it is important, make more than one backup and store it in another location.
Very interesting, thanks for the video. I had not heard of M-Disc before. How about exposing the media sides to UV for a period of days to see if the media fades over time.
LV_Woodturner Department of Defense has since done it's own set of testing. It's has withstood temperatures of around 176 degrees. in addition to ultraviolet light and liquid nitrogen. Now keep in mind while the disc is certainly very robust. It can still break but as far as it being damaged through traditional means. That is much more difficult than a standard disk.
I've had dye based discs die in my car during the summer. It can get to 140°F in a car during the peak of summer and it warps the dye pattern. The M-Disc should survive.
Neither have I. I have a DVD writer in my PC and it's apparently M-Disc certified. It has M.DISC written on it and I've always wondered what that means! :D
Happy 100,000 subscribers, hopefully that Silver Play Button award is on the way from UA-cam. I am also very glad to see Mr. Knife in a video again. I would have performed a scratch test on the surfaces of the discs as well as used a UV lamp as part of the test.
A very interesting video. I had never heard of M-Disc before watching this video. Funnily enough I was looking for a robust backup solution and thanks to you I feel like M-Disc is a suitable candidate, now I know there isn't a 100% full proof method of protecting your data but this should offer greater security than a standard DVD.
congrats on the 100k, you deserve the recognition :) As for the m disc, I've noticed these were never really popular. Atleast not here in Belgium. Which is a shame, because i quite like having disc backups.
At first glance, you may ask "why?" would anyone want to play around with obsolete technology, but I think the answer is obvious: Longevity of data. It makes one cringe to think how much priceless media on celluloid and magnetic tape from the past has been lost due to the impermanence of the media. If we compare old media to new digital memory, it's even more shocking to consider how ephemeral it really is. This M-Disc technology is a thoughtful attempt to preserve valuable history.
I'm sure nobody will care about the vast majority of my data in a few centuries (save perhaps local historians unearthing old photos), but it's nice to have a medium that is unlikely to fail at least in my own lifetime. Before too long, I plan to invest in an Mdisc compatible Bluray drive for backing up my most critical stuff to Mdisc, and the less critical stuff on generic writable blurays.
I really like your videos. Very informative. Sorry if this sounds stupid, but using image burn, are there any special settings I need to use for writing M-Disc blu ray media? I am archiving photos and my own Mov video files, I am using an ASUS BW-16D1HT 16X Blu-Ray BDXL M-DISC, and going to burn on M-DISC verbatim 25GB. Do I just chose BR-W and drag my files in. I cant see anywhere on the Image Burn program a selection to "write an M-DISC". Many thanks.
Thanks for this. There are no special settings for writing an M-Disc -- providing you have an M-Disc burner (which you clearly do!), as is it in the hardware where the difference lies. So yes, just drag your files in. The only setting to be aware of is write speed, which tends to be slower for M-Disc (the disks I use are 4x). Hence make sure Image Burn picks this up and does not set the write speed faster than this. Good Luck! :)
My experience with traditional discs is that when stored under moist conditions for a long time, mold would get into the disc and consume the organic dye.
OK That's not always the case, those of us that live in the south. Like Georgia or Florida in the US. We run into these problems. Or when I import older media from central and South America these problems are more common.
Hi, I have CDs with scratches in them like more scratches than you can count, and they still read fine, but the dye i guess....That would be a problem. I would just vacuum seal them.
The organic dye in the disc is in fact not bio-degradable. The "mold" you saw was probably just the metallic layer oxidising. Main disc rot cause however is UV light, which breaks down the organic layer.
Evert Guzman I also live in a moist, warm climate. I have never had my discs mold. I back up all of my CDs and keep the burned copies in my car. They all work fine after several years of that. If you keep your discs out of sunlight, you really don't need to worry about much else.
Interesting attempted come back for optical media! I don't think I personally have used optical media in a computer for 10 years now - my last two computers haven't had an an optical drive. For long term storage though optical certainly seems a better bet than disk, flash or tape. But the question has to be - what are the chances of having a working drive that would read today's optical disks in 25 years time? To illustrate the point, 25 years ago I was using floppy disks for removable storage. Granted these were no more reliable for long term storage than any other magnetic media, but just suppose somebody had developed a more permanent version - an M-Floppy. Fast forward to the present - how am I going to read an M-Floppy? It's a problem as old as digital media. Nobody has solved it yet. I think your best bet for data you really want to keep is to store multiple copies on different technologies, and then refresh the storage onto new and current technology every few years, say each time you replace your computer.
If someone in 500 years time wants to read your M-disc, I'm sure they could find a way to do it. We can still buy methods of reading outdated storage methods today, people still sell cassette players and record players and yes, even floppy disc drives. It might be a niche item by then, but it would definitely be possible. ESPECIALLY if the disc was being used by historians or archivists.
Fun fact. If this is the same model I have, this drive can recognize PS3 blu ray games so they can be ripped with the PS3 emulators disk ripping software for emulation. My drive is an lg blue ray drive that looks exactly the same as has the mdisk logo.
A 2009 U.S Navy project stress-tested (irradiance, humidity, temperature) M-Discs and several brands of standard DVDs over 24+ hours. All dye-based discs failed. The M-discs "were the only ones tested that maintained information integrity." Accelerated Life Cycle Comparison of Millenniata Archival DVD www.esystor.com/images/China_Lake_Full_Report.pdf
Setting aside all those limiting concerns from my last comment, this is a nice technology, and what else is cool about it is that it was developed right here in my state, Utah, USA, down at Brighman Young University (The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints; my church), and that they licensed the M-Disc part sub-technology drives out to LG and somehow got their own brand of discs made using the BD and DVD licenses and then licensed the M-Disc sub-tech to Verbatim as you know... all started right here in "little old Utah"! I was AMAZED when I learned that!
So I'd just like to chime in here, as someone who backed up their data for years on regular DVD. I cept the DVD's in a disc folder, away from sunlight and they seem to have kept just fine for at least a couple of decades now.
Stephen Morrish M-disc has been out for a while now and nobody seems very interested in using it at this point. Because what is the point in having a media that last for 1000 years when it could be next to impossible to find a drive that still works as well as any devices using the same codec or file systems for that matter.
When I initially built my PC last year I didn't include an optical drive, but now I have one. The same exact Blu-ray drive that's in this video, in fact. I don't use it very often, but it can be very useful on occasion. For example, I recently recorded a music album for a family member who plays piano. I used inkjet printable discs along with an inkjet disc printer and the result is almost professional.
@Elvis: I have a dvd writer that has the lightscribe function. It can use the dvd laser to etch really professional graphics on lightscribe cd-r/dvd-r discs. Christ knows where to buy em though, lightscribe doesnt appear to have caught on and thus the discs are uncommon and bloody expensive. Dont think I have used the drive for a few years now.
FIRST THANKS FOR THE FANTASTIC VIDEO…I LOVE YOUR UA-cam CHANNEL!!! SORRY FOR ALL THE CAPS …I HAVE VISION ISSUES! I AM ALWAYS LOOKING FOR A LONG TERM SOLUTION FOR STORING INFO INFO AND FAMILY PHOTOS…THIS MAY BE THE ANSWER. I HAVE BEEN USING GOOD QUALITY THUMBS DRIVES AND SOLID STATE DRIVES BUT I UNDERSTAND THAT THEY ALL HAVE ABOUT A 5 TO 10 YEAR LIFE EXPECTANCY WITH OUT REFRESHING THEM (REWRITING THEM BEFORE THE 5YEAR MARK)! THESE M DVD SEEM TO BE THE BEST SOLUTION TO LONG TERM STORAGE OF DATA…FOR NOW! I AM GOING TO BUY A DVD R/W M CERTIFICATE DVD BURN/PLAYER AND REDO ALL OF MY LONG TERM STORAGE.
thank goodness i learned about m discs today!! this might be the solution for life time archieval of our data, its surprising to think that there are not many more options like this one considering how much data is being overproduced and stored in 21st century and all we have is temporary storage devices on the market also note that cloud storage comes with its own set of problems.
well youre not supposed to put ANY disc uncovered near or in sunlight but if that M-disc survived extreme moisture it would probably survive the sun too. As much as they cost though, I wouldnt chance it
I have the same LG Blue Ray M-Disc Burner in my PC. The drive works great, and plays very well. I haven't yet tried the M-Disc burning as the discs are a bit expensive and not easily available without ordering online. If I recall my drive was about $90, not a bad price considering its a blue ray burner with M-Disc capabilities.
You know, like many folks I had almost forgotten about optical drives on a p.c ! Thought their days were numbered. Remember when the first writable CD's came out? they tried to claim they were indestructible, eating your dinner from them, scratching with a Brillo pad etc. But we soon found out they weren't that tough. This video is very timely, as I was pondering how I should store some of my more worthwhile files long-term. So far I have found hard drives, and lots of them to be a stop gap measure. Heard of the M disc, but that's. all, so thanks for this video. Amazed at the backwards compatibility, IDE ROM drive !!? WoW
It seems many of here are starting to think about how we are storing data for the long-term. Like you, I have slipped into relying on hard drives, even though the data on them is known to fade unless it is re-written every few years. I feel another video coming on here about how and why media fail, and how to try and prevent this occuring.
I've Had WAY more data loss from mechanical hard drive failure than burnable media I consider it far more secure & that has tested true by a mile in the last 20 or so years.
I thought my issue was with light but moisture makes more sense now. Here in Chicago we have the full spectrum of weather. Storing discs in my car has been my typical use for CD ROM mp3 data or audio. The humidity from the weather changes here in the U.S. must be my issue. And of course I have backups :). But, re-creating my mix CD's has been lost since I no longer use or typically make mix CD's. So yes, you have now encouraged me to replicate your results. Although wouldn't leaving a standard disc in the direct sun also cause data loss? I have to try this too. Maybe a week in the sunlight? Kudos to you sir and your channel.
Hi it has been over 7years now, Do you still have these discs which you subjected to temperature and moisture extream in this video, Do they still work fine after 7years or have you noticed any deterioration.
Very informative video. I will be cancelling an order I just placed for a replacement DVD drive. Instead, I will be buying a M-Disc compatible Blu-Ray burner. Thank you for the information; allowing me to make my purchase a little more future proof!
I copied multiple Blu-ray's a few years ago using Transdata discs. After a few months they were coasters. I've been using Verbatim discs ever since and they seem to be fine (touch wood). It's not Mr Knife but Stanley the Knife @ 2:05
Hello, Chris! Thank you for doing this video! I have been hunting for a reliable media storage, something that I can send to relatives and others (I do genealogy). Up to this time, all I thought was available were Archival DVD,s. This is wonderful to know about the "M' DVD yet I am a bit surprised that the price is not more expensive! I wonder if the storage level will increase as time goes on?? I had to laugh at a couple of other things on your video, Sharpies, for one thing, time machine for another. I live in the US and the world headquarters for the manufacture of Sharpies is down the street about 5 miles, many of my neighbors work there and regarding time machines. we do have one, its called "the bed!" You lay down every night and awake in the morning in the future!!!! It may not be perfect but a great start! I thought this would have been one of the first things you would have learned upon retiring from university! LOL!!! Have a great day and keep the videos coming! Rich
Last year I found some 17 year old cd-rom disks that I had a bunch of pictures on. Transferred them to my new archived data storage and didn’t have any issues. I was surprised they lasted that long.
I left a printed audio cd outside, under a stair out of the sun, as a fifteeen year old. When I was 35 nothing was recoverable, and pieces of the reflective layer was missing. When I was 25 something like half of the disc was readable. (This is in Sweden, so cold and snow aswell as hot summers.)
There will always be computers able to read DVDs considering how prevalent the medium is, or at least some service to convert them into a newer medium. Even today there are many places that offer conversion of 8mm film into digital format. Say in 1000 years an archaeologist uncovers a box of m-discs buried underground, civilisation could be much more advanced than it is today and there will likely be information available on the dvd format and how dvds worked, so the data would be able to be recovered.
+Vercusgames VCRs can stay dead, but record players keep rising like zombies. They're still in production. Importantly for records, they can be read even if you don't know how record players are built. All you have to know is that it is analog sound data in a spiral groove, and you can work out all the other details along the way. That's why the Voyager probes had gold-plated records attached for aliens to potentially listen to, as opposed to some other medium.
Cassettes are terrible archival media, even aside from the mechanical problems tape decks inevitably suffer with age. Records have a much higher chance of being readable in 50 or 100 years, and direct drive turntables don't even have belts to break.
tell that to vinyl... I doubt that this will be a real problem. IF I'm wrong (and all of us commenting here will be dead in 100 years): Great job humanity, on screwing up the most imortant task: Data Storage and retrieval. 3:34 M-Disc Christmas hahaha what ? 7:29 This is actually a tech-comedy show in disguise *where's my popcorn ?* 10:28 Unless you are... ahahah
I was told of a way to securely erase CD R discs that probably also work with DVD Rs. Since you can't rewrite over them to delete things. I would have liked to have found out if the M-Disk could survive that.... One cup that is microwave safe, put some water in it, then set the disc on top of the cup. The water is used to absorb the energy of the microwave without ruining the microwave. The foil that is inside the CD and the DVD will turn into a light show with little lightning bolts going around on the desk, making a unique pattern on each disc. Afterwards the disc will be unreadable....
CDs and DVDs were promoted to last 100 years when they were new. Rewriteable DVD can last for long time provided they are stored carefully. It's usually how good the initial burn was which seems to affect whether the material will be recoverable. And of course one should make multiple copies of things they want to keep and burn a new copy if they find one of the copies is bad. Rarely do multiple copies go at the same time. Of course cost is a big consideration. Burning a few cheap DVDs (and checking them annually) may be a more economical solution.
What's the difference between the Verbatim M-Discs and the official Millenniata ones? I notice the Verbatim M-Discs are significantly cheaper. Do they not last as long or something? Which one would you recommend buying?
So the same test to commercial CDs and DVDs to see what their longevity is. I had water damage to 50 of my music library resulting in a white sticky residue and some smell of mold. Fortunately I have RIPs of them. Many of them were still playing at the time. I wrapped them in plastic storage bags and ser them aside until.I could find replacements. Some were out of print.
I'm relieved that M disks appear to be a solution to a concern many archivists no doubt have. For the archive I work for, all the data is either photo or individual digitizations of VHS videos. Having to transfer all the data already burned so far is daunting, but do-able. Knowing that it'll be "one and done" for any new data to M disk eases my preservation concerns until long after I'm gone.
Thanks for this. My foot continues to be problematic. The surgery I hoped for and talked about here many months ago never happened, as when I saw the surgeon 17 weeks after the fracture, he found that the bone had not healed (and they will not further cut and pin a bone that is not healing). So I've continued being rather immobile ever since (it is now I think week 29) -- several doctors have basically told me to avoid doing anything that hurts, and to be patient. This said, I am now nervously venturing out a bit and hope to make some progress in the coming months. I even hope to film at tradeshow in about 10 days time. Fingers crossed! :)
6:53 What happens if you want to record on it more then once? I can't find a clear answer as the best way to do that. Do you use multi-sesion or UD?, do you close the disk? Do you finalize the disk? What if you want to be able to record on it again but you still want it readable on another computer?
Researching more it looks like using seasions without finalizing if more data is needed to be added is the best option. It doesn't look like finalizing is really necessary when using seasions. isobuster for Windows and cdrtools's cdrecord for Linux can be used for viewing previous seasons. The other option for multiwrites is UDF using the extension to it VAT, but I'm not sure if that's supported as well.
Definitely going with the M disc. I want to store my really crap home videos for at least 25 generations into the future. That way my, as of yet to appear relatives, can sit back and watch them and be amazed at what total crap home movies I made back in ancient times. And that, even more amazing, I'm related to them. Of course, I have to buy a few dozen or hundreds of M disc players as well and hand them out at family gatherings with instructions. Maybe leave some as time capsules in random places with the discs and a video playlist sheet and maybe a clipped fingernail and some m- Polaroids.
So we are back to carving into stone. Neat.
:)
Good observation. Stone age man was pretty smart. They built with perfect fit 100 ton stones we couldn't do today. So now we are stone age again. Progress!!!
LOL
Haha, what a trip.
And the sharpest blades are still made by striking stones together (obsidian)
M-Discs DVD's can be read in any DVD player, the "M-Disc certified drive" requirement is only for writing on them since they need a more powerful laser to etch that material.
Despite everyday storage exploding into the 21st century, long term archival data storage is still very far behind, most people have no long term data storage plans.
it blows my mind that in 2020 there is still no real solution for long term archival data storage, M-disc seems to be the best bet so far. hopefully they will increase the storage capacity some day
@@SquidkidMega the only way I could see optical discs being improved is with stronger more scratch resistant coatings(perhaps one of the newest Corning glasses?) or encased in housing similar to floppy disks/psp discs and more stable dyes as well as a larger storage capacity. Optical has got to be the most reliable and forgiving long term physical storage medium available to the common consumer, would love to see it developed further.
This is sadly all so true.
@@ExplainingComputers I have been looking into a long term storage method. The only thing I could find was 5D optical glass storage. It's supposed to last a couple million years, so that's probably long enough. Only problem is that I can't find how far along the development is. I read that Elon must received 2 of them, and that they transfered a superman movie on one to see how it would work. If you ask me they should invest into the development and get them on the market as soon as possible. It's a no brainer for me, that I would buy one.
Magnectic tape works fine for archival, big companies use them for important data, it's slow, but if you take good care they will last a lot longer than ssds hds and dvds, plus they're cheap and have redundantly gigantic storage sizes
As a neurotic archiver with multiple redundant backups this interest me greatly. Three backup HDs have suddenly died on me in the past two months so I was looking for a reliable yet cheap solution. I have a library of DVDs that I have to re read every six months or so because sometimes they just suddenly can't be read; the humid and hot climate of where I live corrodes them quickly. This is the solution many of us have been waiting. Thanks a lot professor.
Hey there! After 7 years do you still use this for backups? I'm interested into archiving my files for a long term. I was convinced to use SSD's but I'v come across this format, dou you recomend it?
@@MiguelLopez-lr9db SSD? you better off saving those to HDD... yes the mechanical parts MAY fail... but the data could still potentially be recovered. Additionally, i am too curious about the original commenter's M Discs
I have converted all my old VHS videos and old family photos to digital, and one of the media I have used is the m-disc dvd and bluray. I hope they never have to be used as a last resort one day, but I can at least sleep a bit more peacefully knowing that I have done everything I can and in my power to preserve the memories of my family and deceased mother
Happy 100K! Now you should expect a silver play button in 1-2 years.
I am really hoping for a package in 1-2 months . . . we shall see! :)
golden now
Great video that I just stumbled across. I was in charge of a Digital Archive department for a company that supplied data services to mutual funds. I started testing M-Disc in 2009 or 2010 and was impressed with the potential for our customers. Ultimately it came down to cost vs advantage. We purchased 10K to 20K blank disks per month for production at $.43 each. M-Disc in DVD format were about $5 each - over 10 times the cost. I could not convince top management that the advantage to our customers was worth the added expense. I retired in 2011 and still have stacks of M-Discs and burners.
Would you sell me some?
@@erickrobles3179 I have about 20 M-disc blank DVDs let me know if you are interested
"I also tried it on this Sony machine that was recently dug up from an archaeological site.. I believe it was made by the Romans." Love British humor and its quintessential deadpan / understated delivery. And as a fellow albeit realatively newly minted M Disc enthusiast.... Great info!
Circa about 1994 I burned my first CD-R... Yes, some WAREZ... at 1X. Took a while. Still have the CD... still works!
lol maybe at where you live?
Burnt my first cd-r in 1995, also warez, also still works. The gold discs I used cost £7 each and there was no buffer under-run protection so if the pc decided to do something unexpected whilst burning (at 1x) the disc was ruined. The drive cost about £400 iirc. It paid for itself pretty quickly as I used to sell discs crammed full of warez for £20 a pop. Diskjuggler was one of the burning programs I remember using, and yes, that one was also pirated lol.
You got yourself some quality right there!
Most cd-rs from that time used unstable cyanine dye tho not phaltocyanine or azo so unless it was stored in a cool dry place with no light all that time I find it hard to believe that it still reads fine
I got a 2x2x24 hp drive for Christmas 1997 or 98. Sucker took like 24mins to drop a 650mb cd-r!
I used to work in an Antenna factory, and the guys there used to regularly test new designs of Antenna in a special chamber that could emulate 50 years of British weather. The Antennas used to come out looking all weathered and such, it was pretty cool to see :)
Now that chamber sounds very cool.
@@ExplainingComputers Yes, I am afraid I can't give you any good technical details as I wasn't directly involved, but I saw all the highly weathered looking Antennas and was told roughly what had happened to them. There was a sound proof chamber also, for testing microwaves. They say a sound proof room makes a person panic if left inside but I tried it for a good 15 minutes, and i found it quite relaxing. Many thanks.
@@chunkymonkey55555 perhaps depends on what kind of person you are. I find quite places quite nice.
@@jec_ecartsame
"Accelerated Aging Tests" are the category these types of things fit into, it's a really interesting science!
Do a 25 year update.
:)
Love your content man, just discovered this channel a few days ago. Keep up the fabulous work!
Or the 10 years challenge! :b
23 years to go.
I've got 25 year old CD's and DVD's that still work like they're brand new. Popped in an old PC game the other day and installed it... works perfect. Maybe 50 year update...
Thanks for this great video. I'm an amazed user of the Verbatim 100 GB M-Discs, which finish my backup system as long-time archival storage
A word of caution: in an accelerated aging test conducted by the French Laboratoire National de Métrologie et d’Essais, the resilience of the M-Disc was found not to differ significantly from other reputable types of DVD-R. Only the GlassMasterDisc survived the test without errors, but it is no longer produced (it was basically a DVD custom-made out of glass in a cleanroom environment). Silica discs (Microsoft) or 5D optical storage might eventually replace it.
And in 2022, it was reported that Verbatim no longer produces the M-Disc DVD-R's, and instead only produces a newer Blu-Ray version, which has never undergone independent accelerated aging tests.
M-Disc is pretty awesome especially for archiving video. It might be a good replacement over tape media but only time will tell how long it can really last.
50 GB of M-Discs costs just about the same as 3 000 GB of LTO-5 tape.
@@laszu7137 But the tape drive (assuming roughly $1000) costs as much as (from Amazon) 6 TB of Milleniata M-Discs, or (from your own comment) 36 TB of LTO-5 tape. Furthermore, this isn't about price, but longevity. If it's about price, the cheapest up to roughly 30 TB is HDD, then tape (which, BTW, it has very slow random read/write performance due to it being linear).
The Technology changes so use every 5 Year the latest Backup tech.... So you have a fresh copy of your backup... Dont forgot about changing Media/Conectors/Software and so on... A IDE Harddisk is already usable but witch modern Motherbord support IDE ??? It will be same with SATA.... So keep you older Copies but go for the latest affordable technology....
Dont Forget 3 Copys are 1 Backup, set on 3 different Technologies and Physical different Places. So it must be relativelly save.
Yes I was on a dig in the ancient Londinium and we found a Sony CD101! I think it's on exhibit at the British Museum. We are working on a Pleistocene-era dig and hope to find a 'floppy disc' hopes run high...
:)
Thanks for the great video! People are starting to be aware of their pecious memories being wiped out … I have 3,5” discs, ZIP100 drives and of course burned CD/DVD and plenty of hard drives. The oldest data I have is over 30 years old on 3,5” discs and slightly newer on ZIP100s. About 80-85% still works, and it also could be the device I’m using for them all to not open. So, not all is readable anymore. I’m seriously considering M-Disc 100GBs for archiving memories for future generations. I’m sure in 50-years time, we’d still have CD/DVD discs and spinners around…since they are so plenty in the world.
I like this type of video, talking about none mainstream technology stuff. Thanks!
This video made my day :)! I came to learn more about the M-Discs that I now own for archival, but I came away with a much bigger smile and some LOL chuckles at your humor and your experiment! Thanks for your info AND all the fun :)!!
Hiya! Found your vids "along the way" and I'm glad I did! You speak clearly and your audio and video are both very well done. Keep up the GREAT work!
Many thanks. :)
100000 Subscribers! Well done, ExplainingComputers
Many thanks! :)
what? you are not at 1 mil yet ? wth !
I always thought that you were a big channel that has 10 million subscribers .
wow.
kaetty_7 You are very kind. :)
ExplainingComputers thanks :)
***** As soon as it arrives! :)
It's been over 7 years since the publication of this much appreciated and helpful video, and I was wondering if you're still using M-Discs for data archival. It may be material worth for an "data archival revisited" video in the near future! Thank you very much for your help spreading computer knowledge in such a clear and concise way!
Sadly Verbatim doesn't sell true m-disc's anymore. So even if he did make an update on this, it wouldn't be very helpful becaus you can't buy true m-disc discs anymore (other than old 4,7Gb from Millenniata)
@@halilsmith8162 This is just a myth.
@@halilsmith8162 Really? Are you sure about they no longer sell actual MDisks at all? Is there anything I can read about on that? Would be a real shame if true.
@@AbsurdScandal
1) This channel just did an updated video about different storage options and their longevity.
2) it lead me to look into buying m discs, and from what I’ve read so far there’s a strong consensus that the Verbatim discs sold as “M” are now an upgraded version of their regular “archival” quality. But “gold” DVDrs and CDRs can last 50 years if you write them at 1x speed. There’s a lot of info available online on maximizing the technology that we can get hold of.
3) there’s a magnetic HDD utility called “Spinrite” that can be used to keep HDDs working much longer than average as well. I used to use it for recovery, but it’s great for the “magnetic refresh” they need when used as mostly-unpowered backups. It’s over thirty years old and still updated by the original software engineer.
@@JasonJrake 2) Doesn't Verbatim still sell DVD mdisks? The Blu Rays may most likely not be using the same mineral layer that the original DVD mdisks used, so are most likely an upgraded archival BD, but the DVDs may be true mdisks still.
Ideally, you should store all your written M-Discs in a 'disaster proof' safe which is fireproof, heatproof and watertight. ;-)
Better still, why not store multiple copies in totally separate locations?
Basically an airplane blackbox?
Under the sea?🤣
@@raiogelato6921 They make fireproof safes that are designed for this, but it is worth noting that it's more useful if you live in a smaller home where the firefighters can get to the fire quickly, as they are more fire resistant than fireproof, but they will protect against water and heat, up to a point.
@@gazzarrr666 In a war or asteroid impact-type scenario, a disaster-proof safe (especially if stored in a basement underground, if such a space is available) would be invaluable, even compared to storing multiple copies in separate locations.
That standard DVD looked pretty cool after that long-term water test. I mean, it wasn't very useful, but at least the pattern was interesting.
Yes, it looked great! :) Some cool chemistry was going on there.
@@ExplainingComputers -- I suspect that if the water was not the nice clean water you subjected it to, your results would have been different. For example in a situation where the disk was subjected to a flood where the water might be muddy. Don't laugh, a lot of companies in Houston found out that storing their important paper and data in underground secure storage was not a good idea after Tropical Storm Allison... Here's a photo from the tunnel system that connects many of the large buildings in downtown Houston...
lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/dpChEwFH6dHI7Dzrfx8OE6E5BV4SSVQsYsau4d6bwdqdij1x12490x1N-gKoxqQcy_PTAxraMD12rvXF3XzuYgQ
That photo was taken by someone while the water was still flowing rapidly in there and rising. Apparently the person realize that it probably was not a good idea to stay around as the water rose above the electrical outlets in the wall. It would have eventually filled up the the entire tunnel system and stores located on that level and the city spent quite a bit of time pumping out all the water from the tunnel system.
The disaster planning for the companies was more concerned about the potential for a hurricane and tornado destroying a building, so storing important things underground seemed like a good idea to them. The problem is that storing things underground is not a good idea if you have flooding due to a significant rain event (e.g. Tropical Storm Allison, Hurricane Harvey, etc). Houston has had floods for probably as long at it has been in existence. They will spend millions of dollars after a flood to modify the drainage, but all it does is make it where a place that didn't used to flood ends up flooding now. Here's a photo from 1935 where it flooded to the 2nd and 3rd floor of the downtown buildings:
s.w-x.co//util/image/w/houston-1935-flood-HCFCD.jpg
@@ExplainingComputers "Organic dyes" means its based on carbon chemistry.
i bought a pc with an m-disc dvd drive installed, but i didnt know much about m-disc technology,
now i know, thank you :-)
I like that you took your time when you make videos; most other channels making videos like yours would have made 'update' videos after the first one to say "now the standard dvd is unreadable", then another saying "now the standard dvd is readable again".
Instead, you make one concise video with none of the fluff-
Nice. I did not known about the M-Disk. I would like to see a UV test of those discs compared to traditional DVD/BR tech too.
For optical media, it's spelled "disc."
Indeed, I think heat and UV tests would be more relevant than moisture and cold - unless you live in some cold climate.
I'm pretty sure the M-dics would be immune because it doesn't use a light sensitive die at all ... the DVD and other discs use some type of dye ... anyway that's my 2 cents
@@BlackieNuff Yep, cold isn't that bad for discs: chemical reactions that make the disk organic dyes decompose are accelerated by heat, not cold. A good rule of thumb is that for every 10 ºC increase, there's a doubling in the reaction rate.
I believe a UV test like what you are suggesting has been done by the US military and M-disc performed well under these circumstances. Here is a link to their report. www.esystor.com/images/China_Lake_Full_Report.pdf
I am using M-Disc as well, and I have had great results with it. I have yet to punish my discs the way you did, but I am glad to see that they are as hardy as advertised!
new verbatim m-discs sadly are not true m-disc anymore
Congratulations for the well deserved 100K subs! You are a very likable person.
Very cool. Thank you for the vid. I actually hadn't heard of M-disk... and now that I've seen this I can think of several hundred DVDs and CDs worth of data that I should probably check out SOON, and consider consolidating and migrating.
It's funny hearing people say stuff like, there won't be dvd or blu ray players in 20, 100, or 1000 years or whatever. Are VCRs obsolete? Yes. Can you still get one if you need one....yes. As long as there is a need, those players will be around. Keep in mind that the government still has a treasure trove of data stored on magnetic media. Are there more convenient, faster, sexier types of media - sure. Hard drives and SD cards have a shelf life though. It's a matter of when, not if they'll go bad. Stored properly, CDs and DVDs will last a long while (I still have CDs that are readable and usable from the 1990s) because I stored them properly and have avoided humidity and scratches. Anyway, Mdisc is (currently) the most reliable form of media for data archiving. If it is important, make more than one backup and store it in another location.
Very interesting, thanks for the video.
I had not heard of M-Disc before. How about exposing the media sides to UV for a period of days to see if the media fades over time.
Great Video. I would like to see a UV test too.
LV_Woodturner Department of Defense has since done it's own set of testing. It's has withstood temperatures of around 176 degrees. in addition to ultraviolet light and liquid nitrogen.
Now keep in mind while the disc is certainly very robust. It can still break but as far as it being damaged through traditional means. That is much more difficult than a standard disk.
I've had dye based discs die in my car during the summer. It can get to 140°F in a car during the peak of summer and it warps the dye pattern. The M-Disc should survive.
Neither have I. I have a DVD writer in my PC and it's apparently M-Disc certified. It has M.DISC written on it and I've always wondered what that means! :D
Simo Hayha: Since BR/DVD (be they R/RW/M) is NOT magnetic media, magnetic fields would have no effect whatsoever on them.
Happy 100,000 subscribers, hopefully that Silver Play Button award is on the way from UA-cam. I am also very glad to see Mr. Knife in a video again. I would have performed a scratch test on the surfaces of the discs as well as used a UV lamp as part of the test.
A very interesting video. I had never heard of M-Disc before watching this video. Funnily enough I was looking for a robust backup solution and thanks to you I feel like M-Disc is a suitable candidate, now I know there isn't a 100% full proof method of protecting your data but this should offer greater security than a standard DVD.
first video over 100k, excellent! keep them coming!
congrats on the 100k, you deserve the recognition :)
As for the m disc, I've noticed these were never really popular. Atleast not here in Belgium.
Which is a shame, because i quite like having disc backups.
At first glance, you may ask "why?" would anyone want to play around with obsolete technology, but I think the answer is obvious: Longevity of data.
It makes one cringe to think how much priceless media on celluloid and magnetic tape from the past has been lost due to the impermanence of the media.
If we compare old media to new digital memory, it's even more shocking to consider how ephemeral it really is. This M-Disc technology is a thoughtful attempt to preserve valuable history.
This was a very informative video. I'm wanting to do some long-term storage, and M-Disc makes a lot of sense for that purpose based on this video.
I'm sure nobody will care about the vast majority of my data in a few centuries (save perhaps local historians unearthing old photos), but it's nice to have a medium that is unlikely to fail at least in my own lifetime. Before too long, I plan to invest in an Mdisc compatible Bluray drive for backing up my most critical stuff to Mdisc, and the less critical stuff on generic writable blurays.
Put them in a high UV environment as well
I have the same suggestion, I guess most damage will be caused by light (radiation).
I've checked my DVDs file that I've stored 10 years ago and still works but this one is a great super addition in my collection thanks
"DVD player made by the Romans"... I think I'm in the right place. New sub! :)
Thanks for the sub -- welcome aboard! :)
@@ExplainingComputers I presume that making scale-mail armour from these discs would render me invincible, and perhaps nigh immortal?
Very impressive experiment. Well done.
I thoroughly enjoyed that action packed thriller.
"M" 4 completely mad, exquisitely mental and wonderfully entertaining; Bravo M captain.
I really like your videos. Very informative. Sorry if this sounds stupid, but using image burn, are there any special settings I need to use for writing M-Disc blu ray media? I am archiving photos and my own Mov video files, I am using an ASUS BW-16D1HT 16X Blu-Ray BDXL M-DISC, and going to burn on M-DISC verbatim 25GB. Do I just chose BR-W and drag my files in. I cant see anywhere on the Image Burn program a selection to "write an M-DISC". Many thanks.
Thanks for this. There are no special settings for writing an M-Disc -- providing you have an M-Disc burner (which you clearly do!), as is it in the hardware where the difference lies. So yes, just drag your files in. The only setting to be aware of is write speed, which tends to be slower for M-Disc (the disks I use are 4x). Hence make sure Image Burn picks this up and does not set the write speed faster than this. Good Luck! :)
8:18 - Broke my heart man. I've been saving for a time machine :(
:O
I've been wanting to get one of these. So far I have been backing up old DVDs with new DVDs every decade.
"This is not something to be tried unless you're incredibly stupid."
-Christopher Barnatt trying it, 2016
10:25
I just stumbled across M-Disc late last week, thanks for covering it here.
We need an update video on this please. thank you.
I really think that especially the end is fantastic! Good call on making a new take!
My experience with traditional discs is that when stored under moist conditions for a long time, mold would get into the disc and consume the organic dye.
Stefan Noack don't store your disks in a rainforest then
OK That's not always the case, those of us that live in the south. Like Georgia or Florida in the US. We run into these problems. Or when I import older media from central and South America these problems are more common.
Hi, I have CDs with scratches in them like more scratches than you can count, and they still read fine, but the dye i guess....That would be a problem. I would just vacuum seal them.
The organic dye in the disc is in fact not bio-degradable. The "mold" you saw was probably just the metallic layer oxidising.
Main disc rot cause however is UV light, which breaks down the organic layer.
Evert Guzman I also live in a moist, warm climate. I have never had my discs mold. I back up all of my CDs and keep the burned copies in my car. They all work fine after several years of that. If you keep your discs out of sunlight, you really don't need to worry about much else.
Congratulations on the 100,000 subscriber milestone! Probably might try them real soon.
Interesting attempted come back for optical media! I don't think I personally have used optical media in a computer for 10 years now - my last two computers haven't had an an optical drive. For long term storage though optical certainly seems a better bet than disk, flash or tape.
But the question has to be - what are the chances of having a working drive that would read today's optical disks in 25 years time? To illustrate the point, 25 years ago I was using floppy disks for removable storage. Granted these were no more reliable for long term storage than any other magnetic media, but just suppose somebody had developed a more permanent version - an M-Floppy. Fast forward to the present - how am I going to read an M-Floppy?
It's a problem as old as digital media. Nobody has solved it yet. I think your best bet for data you really want to keep is to store multiple copies on different technologies, and then refresh the storage onto new and current technology every few years, say each time you replace your computer.
If someone in 500 years time wants to read your M-disc, I'm sure they could find a way to do it. We can still buy methods of reading outdated storage methods today, people still sell cassette players and record players and yes, even floppy disc drives. It might be a niche item by then, but it would definitely be possible. ESPECIALLY if the disc was being used by historians or archivists.
well floppy disk drives are still made and sold...as well as Zip drives
How are you going to read an M-Floppy? Well he could, at 5:55 you can see that his computer still has a floppy drive!
CDs were around in the 1980s, so pretty good chances.
Fun fact. If this is the same model I have, this drive can recognize PS3 blu ray games so they can be ripped with the PS3 emulators disk ripping software for emulation. My drive is an lg blue ray drive that looks exactly the same as has the mdisk logo.
A 2009 U.S Navy project stress-tested (irradiance, humidity, temperature) M-Discs and several brands of standard DVDs over 24+ hours. All dye-based discs failed. The M-discs "were the only ones tested that maintained information integrity."
Accelerated Life Cycle Comparison of Millenniata Archival DVD
www.esystor.com/images/China_Lake_Full_Report.pdf
Setting aside all those limiting concerns from my last comment, this is a nice technology, and what else is cool about it is that it was developed right here in my state, Utah, USA, down at Brighman Young University (The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints; my church), and that they licensed the M-Disc part sub-technology drives out to LG and somehow got their own brand of discs made using the BD and DVD licenses and then licensed the M-Disc sub-tech to Verbatim as you know... all started right here in "little old Utah"! I was AMAZED when I learned that!
Do the ultimate stress test, and use those discs as a frisbee. Aaah, my childhood days. Many discs died for my amusement.
Make great drink coasters and mobiles.
So I'd just like to chime in here, as someone who backed up their data for years on regular DVD. I cept the DVD's in a disc folder, away from sunlight and they seem to have kept just fine for at least a couple of decades now.
I have not had optical drive in any of my computers for around 10 years. This might make me think about fitting one again. Thanks for the video.
+Stephen Morrish My new build dosn't have an optical drive either, hence why I'm thinking of using an external one instead.
Stephen Morrish M-disc has been out for a while now and nobody seems very interested in using it at this point. Because what is the point in having a media that last for 1000 years when it could be next to impossible to find a drive that still works as well as any devices using the same codec or file systems for that matter.
Stephen Morrish I have them on all and haven't used one in last 6 months. if you have good internet connection you don't need one.
When I initially built my PC last year I didn't include an optical drive, but now I have one. The same exact Blu-ray drive that's in this video, in fact. I don't use it very often, but it can be very useful on occasion. For example, I recently recorded a music album for a family member who plays piano. I used inkjet printable discs along with an inkjet disc printer and the result is almost professional.
@Elvis: I have a dvd writer that has the lightscribe function. It can use the dvd laser to etch really professional graphics on lightscribe cd-r/dvd-r discs. Christ knows where to buy em though, lightscribe doesnt appear to have caught on and thus the discs are uncommon and bloody expensive. Dont think I have used the drive for a few years now.
FIRST THANKS FOR THE FANTASTIC VIDEO…I LOVE YOUR UA-cam CHANNEL!!! SORRY FOR ALL THE CAPS …I HAVE VISION ISSUES!
I AM ALWAYS LOOKING FOR A LONG TERM SOLUTION FOR STORING INFO INFO AND FAMILY PHOTOS…THIS MAY BE THE ANSWER. I HAVE BEEN USING GOOD QUALITY THUMBS DRIVES
AND SOLID STATE DRIVES BUT I UNDERSTAND THAT THEY ALL HAVE ABOUT A 5 TO 10 YEAR LIFE EXPECTANCY WITH OUT REFRESHING THEM (REWRITING THEM BEFORE THE 5YEAR MARK)!
THESE M DVD SEEM TO BE THE BEST SOLUTION TO LONG TERM STORAGE OF DATA…FOR NOW!
I AM GOING TO BUY A DVD R/W M CERTIFICATE DVD BURN/PLAYER AND REDO ALL OF MY LONG TERM STORAGE.
The Ashens of technology! Nice vid.
exactly
He's more the techmoan of computer stuff, if you don't know who that is, look him up.
I know all 3 of them,I love their content,great side of youtube.
^ Indeed.
thank goodness i learned about m discs today!! this might be the solution for life time archieval of our data, its surprising to think that there are not many more options like this one considering how much data is being overproduced and stored in 21st century and all we have is temporary storage devices on the market also note that cloud storage comes with its own set of problems.
I'd like to see how it last with sun light. I once had a picture CD go corrupt in a few days or weeks and I think it was because of light on it?
well youre not supposed to put ANY disc uncovered near or in sunlight but if that M-disc survived extreme moisture it would probably survive the sun too. As much as they cost though, I wouldnt chance it
I have the same LG Blue Ray M-Disc Burner in my PC. The drive works great, and plays very well. I haven't yet tried the M-Disc burning as the discs are a bit expensive and not easily available without ordering online.
If I recall my drive was about $90, not a bad price considering its a blue ray burner with M-Disc capabilities.
best haircut on the youtubes!!
Best haircut on the entire interwebs
You know, like many folks I had almost forgotten about optical drives on a p.c !
Thought their days were numbered.
Remember when the first writable CD's came out? they tried to claim they were indestructible, eating your dinner from them, scratching with a Brillo pad etc.
But we soon found out they weren't that tough.
This video is very timely, as I was pondering how I should store some of my more worthwhile files long-term.
So far I have found hard drives, and lots of them to be a stop gap measure.
Heard of the M disc, but that's. all, so thanks for this video.
Amazed at the backwards compatibility, IDE ROM drive !!? WoW
It seems many of here are starting to think about how we are storing data for the long-term. Like you, I have slipped into relying on hard drives, even though the data on them is known to fade unless it is re-written every few years. I feel another video coming on here about how and why media fail, and how to try and prevent this occuring.
My first CD ROM was single speed, required a SCSI host adaptor, and If I recall correctly, cost £199.
I've Had WAY more data loss from mechanical hard drive failure than burnable media I consider it far more secure & that has tested true by a mile in the last 20 or so years.
Chris, excellent video! 'Bout time someone made some durable DVD media.
I thought my issue was with light but moisture makes more sense now. Here in Chicago we have the full spectrum of weather. Storing discs in my car has been my typical use for CD ROM mp3 data or audio. The humidity from the weather changes here in the U.S. must be my issue. And of course I have backups :). But, re-creating my mix CD's has been lost since I no longer use or typically make mix CD's.
So yes, you have now encouraged me to replicate your results. Although wouldn't leaving a standard disc in the direct sun also cause data loss? I have to try this too. Maybe a week in the sunlight?
Kudos to you sir and your channel.
Hi it has been over 7years now, Do you still have these discs which you subjected to temperature and moisture extream in this video, Do they still work fine after 7years or have you noticed any deterioration.
Very informative video. I will be cancelling an order I just placed for a replacement DVD drive. Instead, I will be buying a M-Disc compatible Blu-Ray burner. Thank you for the information; allowing me to make my purchase a little more future proof!
The glue adhesive and polycarbonate will die before the data layer
Great tests Chris, I now learnt what M-disc is, had been so long from using a writable media
I am definetly getting one M-Disc Bluray Drive for my new build. Cheers :)
*definitely
I'll stay with my 128gb usb stick that's faster and cheaper and stores more than a single disc
@@intothevortex7825
Usb aren't archival.. it will corrupt in few 1-2 years
@@intothevortex7825 what do you mean store more than a single disc?
Im sorry but whut?????
@@intothevortex7825 your pathetic usb is not made for archiving. Dork.
I copied multiple Blu-ray's a few years ago using Transdata discs. After a few months they were coasters. I've been using Verbatim discs ever since and they seem to be fine (touch wood). It's not Mr Knife but Stanley the Knife @ 2:05
Will you do an update in 1000 years?
Gladly. :)
his great great grandson will
@@scienceium5233 Great great grandson only gets you part of the way to 200 years. You need many more greats to get to 1000!
Well done Dr. Chris, long video, but informative as usual.
Yacoub
Hello, Chris!
Thank you for doing this video! I have been hunting for a reliable media storage, something that I can send to relatives and others (I do genealogy). Up to this time, all I thought was available were Archival DVD,s. This is wonderful to know about the "M' DVD yet I am a bit surprised that the price is not more expensive! I wonder if the storage level will increase as time goes on?? I had to laugh at a couple of other things on your video, Sharpies, for one thing, time machine for another. I live in the US and the world headquarters for the manufacture of Sharpies is down the street about 5 miles, many of my neighbors work there and regarding time machines. we do have one, its called "the bed!" You lay down every night and awake in the morning in the future!!!! It may not be perfect but a great start! I thought this would have been one of the first things you would have learned upon retiring from university! LOL!!!
Have a great day and keep the videos coming!
Rich
Last year I found some 17 year old cd-rom disks that I had a bunch of pictures on. Transferred them to my new archived data storage and didn’t have any issues.
I was surprised they lasted that long.
Glad to see you used solid state storage to confirm the discs reliability! 🤣
amazing video and very nice experiment, the M-disc seems to be really good.
Nice, you have a SATA DVD player over a floppy drive. That's amazing.
I left a printed audio cd outside, under a stair out of the sun, as a fifteeen year old. When I was 35 nothing was recoverable, and pieces of the reflective layer was missing. When I was 25 something like half of the disc was readable. (This is in Sweden, so cold and snow aswell as hot summers.)
Awesome, so there is now a dvd that lasts longer then all the computers that will be able to read them!
probably 😉😁
There will always be computers able to read DVDs considering how prevalent the medium is, or at least some service to convert them into a newer medium. Even today there are many places that offer conversion of 8mm film into digital format. Say in 1000 years an archaeologist uncovers a box of m-discs buried underground, civilisation could be much more advanced than it is today and there will likely be information available on the dvd format and how dvds worked, so the data would be able to be recovered.
+Vercusgames
VCRs can stay dead, but record players keep rising like zombies. They're still in production. Importantly for records, they can be read even if you don't know how record players are built. All you have to know is that it is analog sound data in a spiral groove, and you can work out all the other details along the way. That's why the Voyager probes had gold-plated records attached for aliens to potentially listen to, as opposed to some other medium.
Cassettes are terrible archival media, even aside from the mechanical problems tape decks inevitably suffer with age. Records have a much higher chance of being readable in 50 or 100 years, and direct drive turntables don't even have belts to break.
tell that to vinyl...
I doubt that this will be a real problem.
IF I'm wrong (and all of us commenting here will be dead in 100 years):
Great job humanity, on screwing up the most imortant task:
Data Storage and retrieval.
3:34 M-Disc Christmas hahaha what ?
7:29 This is actually a tech-comedy show in disguise
*where's my popcorn ?*
10:28 Unless you are... ahahah
Thank you so much sir. M disc would solve the precious data lose problems for years.
BD finally found its place above the floppy drive. Now for a 25 GB backup you will need only 1 M-Disc instead of 17362 Diskettes :)
Excellent video and videos. Congratulations on 100k subscribers!
I was told of a way to securely erase CD R discs that probably also work with DVD Rs. Since you can't rewrite over them to delete things. I would have liked to have found out if the M-Disk could survive that....
One cup that is microwave safe, put some water in it, then set the disc on top of the cup. The water is used to absorb the energy of the microwave without ruining the microwave. The foil that is inside the CD and the DVD will turn into a light show with little lightning bolts going around on the desk, making a unique pattern on each disc. Afterwards the disc will be unreadable....
An interesting methods. I usually just put a cutter through a CD or DVD-R if it needs to go in the bin.
@@ExplainingComputers
It makes pretty coasters....
CDs and DVDs were promoted to last 100 years when they were new.
Rewriteable DVD can last for long time provided they are stored carefully. It's usually how good the initial burn was which seems to affect whether the material will be recoverable. And of course one should make multiple copies of things they want to keep and burn a new copy if they find one of the copies is bad. Rarely do multiple copies go at the same time.
Of course cost is a big consideration. Burning a few cheap DVDs (and checking them annually) may be a more economical solution.
I use M-Discs to store my digital photo album photos. I use the Blu-Ray versions of the M-Disc.
What's the difference between the Verbatim M-Discs and the official Millenniata ones? I notice the Verbatim M-Discs are significantly cheaper. Do they not last as long or something? Which one would you recommend buying?
I've not found any difference between the Verbatim and Millenniata disks, so I now only buy the Vertatim ones.
i like that he freeze them and boil , that was fun test
Great video. I didn't know about these M-DISKS. Hugs from Brazil.
very entertaining and informative as always. Thank you.
So the same test to commercial CDs and DVDs to see what their longevity is. I had water damage to 50 of my music library resulting in a white sticky residue and some smell of mold. Fortunately I have RIPs of them. Many of them were still playing at the time. I wrapped them in plastic storage bags and ser them aside until.I could find replacements. Some were out of print.
Congratulations on 100k
I'm relieved that M disks appear to be a solution to a concern many archivists no doubt have. For the archive I work for, all the data is either photo or individual digitizations of VHS videos. Having to transfer all the data already burned so far is daunting, but do-able. Knowing that it'll be "one and done" for any new data to M disk eases my preservation concerns until long after I'm gone.
Congrats on passing 100k subscribers.
May I ask, any news on your foot?
Thanks for this. My foot continues to be problematic. The surgery I hoped for and talked about here many months ago never happened, as when I saw the surgeon 17 weeks after the fracture, he found that the bone had not healed (and they will not further cut and pin a bone that is not healing). So I've continued being rather immobile ever since (it is now I think week 29) -- several doctors have basically told me to avoid doing anything that hurts, and to be patient. This said, I am now nervously venturing out a bit and hope to make some progress in the coming months. I even hope to film at tradeshow in about 10 days time. Fingers crossed! :)
i hope it gets better. sending prayers.
mike maynard Thanks.
6:53 What happens if you want to record on it more then once? I can't find a clear answer as the best way to do that. Do you use multi-sesion or UD?, do you close the disk? Do you finalize the disk? What if you want to be able to record on it again but you still want it readable on another computer?
Researching more it looks like using seasions without finalizing if more data is needed to be added is the best option. It doesn't look like finalizing is really necessary when using seasions. isobuster for Windows and cdrtools's cdrecord for Linux can be used for viewing previous seasons. The other option for multiwrites is UDF using the extension to it VAT, but I'm not sure if that's supported as well.
congratulations on 100k!
Thanks. :)
Definitely going with the M disc. I want to store my really crap home videos for at least 25 generations into the future. That way my, as of yet to appear relatives, can sit back and watch them and be amazed at what total crap home movies I made back in ancient times. And that, even more amazing, I'm related to them. Of course, I have to buy a few dozen or hundreds of M disc players as well and hand them out at family gatherings with instructions. Maybe leave some as time capsules in random places with the discs and a video playlist sheet and maybe a clipped fingernail and some m- Polaroids.