Great vid. I am a little stumped by the multiplying by 27 concept. Surely it depends on the length of the rod and action. Even so it doesn’t make right calculation. Example. I have a spool that is 57mm in diameter. Multiplying it by 27 gives me 1539mm. My rod is not that long. I’m working with 7’ rod. What am I missing here???
1539mm is 5’-1/2” so your choker guide would be 5 feet and 1/2” away from the front of your reel spool. It has worked out fine for me with every rod I’ve tried it on so far but there could be times it doesn’t.
@@TheFishingHobby my reel face sits 19.5” from the butt. That’s 1”-7.5”. It leaves me with 5’-4.5” of rod blank to the tip. So the choker guide ends up sitting 4” from the tip. This is where I don’t get the concept. The formula would need to take into account the position of the reel seat. Now in saying that, if you take the measurement from the butt then the choker guide is on the money at 1539mm. If you have time to measure it yourself you’ll see what I mean.
I understand what you are thinking but the new concept guide system is based around high framed guides…technically, your choker guide could be your tiptop. Your choker guide could most certainly be one spot behind your tiptop. The choker guide won’t necessarily be near the midpoint of your rod. That will not change the number of guides you should use, it will just change the number of higher framed guides you will need. A short length, heavy duty rod for large game species like tuna will usually have the tip top as the choker guide. That just means all the guides leading up to that point will be higher framed guides.
No problem and if you don’t like this layout there is always more than one way to layout a rod. This is one way, but many other ways will yield great results too!
This is one of the few sources I've found on UA-cam that adequately explain Fuji's New Guide Concept. Along with the PDF file in the description I was able to understand and implement this system and the results are amazing. The first spinning rod I built using this method with the rod matched to the reel I used multicolored braid so it was really easy to see the line oscillation between the spool and stripper guide, which on my set-up felt a little long but seeing is believing. No waves, no slap, no wiggle waggle, just a very controlled tunnel of line and it still blows my mind to this day that I made a rod this sweet. As for the bait casting setup I haven't really focused on learning that (other than watching the slow motion tests done by Fuji's engineers) because I use acid wrap for my BC and OH rods and I'm not sure the NCG principle is applicable as the acid wrap design has its own specific requirements. Anyway thank you so much for this. I always return for a refresher when I make a new spinning rod.
Do it, I just built my first for my brothers 50th, I'm hooked. Starting a business now. Great fun & sense of achievement . Building one for myself now. Falconer custom rods is a good teacher / mentor Cheers Tight lines
I haven't started building rods yet, still researching what's needed and howto. This is the first video I've found that explains the mathematics for setting up the first guide size and placement on the rod blank. Thank you for that.
There are other ways to do layouts, but this one consistently works well and is fairly easy to understand in my opinion. Best of luck to you on your first build when you get started on it!
I just finished a 6'6" ML Spinning Rod for my daughter using this concept. I test casted it today and I was blown away by the casting distance..I was using an 1/8 oz weight.
Thanks for the information, you passed through something I have been struggling to learn more about, is there a MAGIC RATIO between the Reel Top diameter and the FIRST Guide? I saw you said that to figure out the correct spacing, you measured your reel top diameter in mm and multiplied it by 27... but what was the guide insert opening ? And why did you chose a 20 H size guide instead of 25 H... I guess what I am really looking to figure out, what is the correct reel top diameter if my guide was a size 25H or 55mm ? Im looking to max casting distance for hardbaits minnows and jigs.
Many folks know about rod blanks, but few truly know about rod guides. I'm like you said, no expert, but your visual truly showcases the distinctly noticeable advantages to your rod guide alignment.
If you want to see super slow motion of the line as it passes through the guides with various rod guide layouts (including this one) and the problems that this system solves, have a look at this video: ua-cam.com/video/5ANbtcbNvYU/v-deo.html That video clearly identifies the advantages to this sort of guide layout. Fuji are the ones who came up with this layout and then the way it is easily laid out using some basic calculations was presented by RodMaker Magazine. This isn't a layout you would see on a normal off the shelf rod but some high end rods may use it. A whole lot of custom rod builders use it because they know what reel the customer will be using, so they can easily do the guide layout accordingly.
How do I measure rod guide sizes? If the plans calls for a size 30 guide, is that 30 mm of the outer or inside diameter of the guide insert itself? Also, what does the letters means, like H or J?
Nope, still haven't finished it! I was just filming some work on it as a matter of fact. Going to post a video about removing the guides probably next week (just did that today) and I will do a video about the rod when it is done too.
modifying some fresh water rods for light line surf fishing similar to yours- Question where to buy guides? see some on ebay- from china or should I avoid these?
I have used them and they work OK for freshwater but probably would be more likely to rust. The quality is not as good, they also tend to be heavier. It is pretty hard to beat the quality of guides for the price you pay on Fuji guides. Even their low end guides are well made. You can buy them on eBay or from sites like Mudhole or Jann's Netcraft
So the standard practice of spacing the guides measuring from the tip of the rod is not the best method ? Presently building a 10 foot Hexagraph spinning rod and have been concerned about finding a better method for guide placement. . Thank you for providing a better layout for guide placement.. Using a Penn 5500LC spinning reel and 14 guides and tip.. Great informative video..
I didn't invent this method, just to be clear. This is something Fuji came up with. This method works great for me, but everyone likes different things so I can't say this way is better for everyone. My best recommendation would be to try some load testing both ways to see which you like better. I know that is a lot more work, but you will be able to tell which method should work better for you. Good luck with that build!
Thanks for info👏 Just recently I tried to modify a heavy feeder rod used for carp fishing. And because i used a big carp reel something like 70+mm spool diameter I didn’t feel the first big guide is higher enough. So I tried to modify guides to match my big reel. I didn’t tested yet my setup but if you have time can you check my last video to see if it’s any good ? Anyway the rod is 14 ft with 4oz tip and I didn’t find any resources for guides spacing and stuff.. Thx again
It looks like it should work better now with the reel you are using. You can do what is called a “static load test” on the rod with the guides installed and check to make sure the bend of the rod looks like the load is well distributed between the guides. This will let you know if your guide spacing is going to work well or not. Ideally you would want to do that before permanently attaching the guides. From what I can see on the video, you should be okay but I would still do a static load test to make sure. Very nice job of getting the work done with what you have. I have wrapped guides like you did just holding the rod, but it isn’t easy! I made this video a long time ago about making a wrapping jig out of a cardboard box. You can give that a try next time and see if it helps you out a little: DIY: Make A Free/Inexpensive Fishing Rod Wrapping Jig Out Of A Cardboard Box!!! ua-cam.com/video/wEC8ktjlYTk/v-deo.html
@@TheFishingHobby thank you 🙏 Static test should be fine anyway because is a heavy rod / practically bending starting in the other half of the rod to the tip( it’s like a softer surf rod).But I will do it anyway 👍 We use rods like this to push 100gr feeder to 120-150 meters, using monofilament 6 to 10Lb and braided shock leaders.
That sounds interesting! In the USA, carp fishing isn’t popular. I’m not sure why that is. I’ve watched some people on UA-cam in other countries fishing for carp and it looks like fun to me.
Yet another super informative video. Really well laid out and easy to understand. I don't suppose you fancy doing a video explaining rod guides do you? Just looking at Fuji alone gives me a headache. What with their BKWAG and CCKWFGs etc etc , it makes choosing guides really daunting for a newbie. Reguardless I thank you for what you have already done, it truly has helped a lot.
You know, that is a good idea. I need to do a video about that. I'm a little busy right now building some finishing motor and dryer motor setups that I will be selling. When things settle down a bit, I will work on a video about guides. Thanks for bringing that to my attention and the kind words.
Kevin, maybe Im doin something wrong in my figures, but this dont ad up. My reel is 44.45mm, times that by 27. That converts into inches at 47.25". That dont work. What am I doin wrong? Ideas? Richard from Kansas;)
Thats on a 7' rod. That puts the choker 23 1/2" away from front of my reel. Is that to far. Im just a beginner and what I have learned most say 18 to 22" is where it should be. Im just confused. The crb book says on that 7' rod the choker is recomended at 50 3/4. Its only 3 1/2" difference. Will that matter you think or not?
@@ramoutdoors6415 I think you have the choker guide and the stripper guide confused. The choker guide will be the same size as your running guides that are on the top part of the rod. The stripper guide is the first large guide in front of the reel (and usually between 18-22 inches as you mentioned). You usually use a stripper and one or two reduction guides before you get to the choker guide. I think I put link in the description of this video to the original article in Rod Builder magazine. Take a look at that and see if it helps you out some. If not let me know and I'll try to help you out if I can. Good luck and I hope that helped some!
Oh yeah, and as a general rule of thumb the stripper guide should be about half the size of the front lip of your spool. For example, if you have a 40mm spool lip, the first guide (stripper guide) should be around 20mm in diameter. I've found with braided fishing line you can go smaller. Mono pulls off in larger coils so the bigger stripper guide ring size helps.
I have a 7ft spinning rod. And I’m not sure what size to get from Fugi KL-H 209 or 259. Please help me lol. I’m stressed and also I’m not sure how to space them
I wish I could help, but most of the sizing and spacing is something I do for what I’m building for myself. What I need and what you need are probably two different things. You can find generic layouts and sizing information online in various places but I personally never use those. I do most everything by sight/experience and I tend to build my rods based on the reel I will be using. Your best bet would probably be to look at some generic layouts from mud hole or some other site and build based on that. Then pay close attention as you use the rod and try to determine what adjustments you would make to the next one to better suit your personal needs. For example, I tend to use smaller diameter guides with higher frames than most people because it works better for what I’m looking for in a rod. Generic layouts will definitely get you in the ballpark and you will be able to build a perfectly usable rod based on something like that. Keep notes for what you would do differently on the next one. I wish I could be of more help than that, but that is how I had to learn to do things and you will learn a lot along the way too.
It works well for any rod type I've come across. Of course your spacing will be dependent on the type of reel you are using. For example a 7 foot long ultralight rod will have a small ultralight reel with a smaller spool diameter so that will have an effect on where the choker guide is placed (moving it closer to the reel) so that also affects the number and size of your reduction guides. A 7 foot long heavy action rod will use a larger reel with a larger spool diameter which will move the choker guide closer to the tip side of the rod and require larger diameter reduction guides and probably more of them as well. I hope that makes sense. I put a link to the original article from Rod Builder Magazine in the description that may help you out too. Hope that helps!
You really have to let go of the idea of preordained guide placements. Forget about charts and traditional wisdom from the past. Everything is determined by the size of your reel, more specifically the height from the center of the spool to the top of the rod blank.
very good video. on these old rods do you trust the factory spine of the rod or do you try a set for that? also do you thing braid or monofilament changes anything in your guide elections? thanks john
Thank you! On this particular rod I'm just leaving the factory installed guides in place for all of them except for two of the reduction guides that will need to be removed. For simplicity, I'm not going to worry about the spine on this one. If I were building on a fresh blank, I would check for the spine and build off of that. As far as rod guides and braid go, any modern guides on the market are built to work with braid. There is one exception to that and it is Kevlar braided line, you will want titanium guides for that type of line. Most braids are a polyethylene based line which really isn't very abrasive at all. Great questions and thanks for watching!
@@TheFishingHobby ok I was just wondering, I'm from south Africa, and we tend to have the reels pretty close to the butt of the rod compared to the USA style... wasn't sure if it matters.
@@poepflater I usually recommend doing what feels best to you. Numbers and predetermined distances don't mean much if it doesn't feel right to you. Good luck to you on what you are working on 👍
I may be doing that video soon. I have a blank that I will be building out soon and I think I will be using the KR concept guide placement on that one. If I do, I will be sure to do a video on it.
Great vid. I am a little stumped by the multiplying by 27 concept. Surely it depends on the length of the rod and action. Even so it doesn’t make right calculation. Example. I have a spool that is 57mm in diameter. Multiplying it by 27 gives me 1539mm. My rod is not that long. I’m working with 7’ rod. What am I missing here???
1539mm is 5’-1/2” so your choker guide would be 5 feet and 1/2” away from the front of your reel spool. It has worked out fine for me with every rod I’ve tried it on so far but there could be times it doesn’t.
@@TheFishingHobby my reel face sits 19.5” from the butt. That’s 1”-7.5”. It leaves me with 5’-4.5” of rod blank to the tip. So the choker guide ends up sitting 4” from the tip. This is where I don’t get the concept. The formula would need to take into account the position of the reel seat. Now in saying that, if you take the measurement from the butt then the choker guide is on the money at 1539mm. If you have time to measure it yourself you’ll see what I mean.
I understand what you are thinking but the new concept guide system is based around high framed guides…technically, your choker guide could be your tiptop. Your choker guide could most certainly be one spot behind your tiptop. The choker guide won’t necessarily be near the midpoint of your rod. That will not change the number of guides you should use, it will just change the number of higher framed guides you will need. A short length, heavy duty rod for large game species like tuna will usually have the tip top as the choker guide. That just means all the guides leading up to that point will be higher framed guides.
@@TheFishingHobby aha. Ok. That now makra sense. Thank you
No problem and if you don’t like this layout there is always more than one way to layout a rod. This is one way, but many other ways will yield great results too!
I've watched mud hole 6 or 7 times and all there video and yours is the only one that made any sense
Thank you and thanks for the feedback as well. I hope the video helps you out!
This is one of the few sources I've found on UA-cam that adequately explain Fuji's New Guide Concept. Along with the PDF file in the description I was able to understand and implement this system and the results are amazing. The first spinning rod I built using this method with the rod matched to the reel I used multicolored braid so it was really easy to see the line oscillation between the spool and stripper guide, which on my set-up felt a little long but seeing is believing. No waves, no slap, no wiggle waggle, just a very controlled tunnel of line and it still blows my mind to this day that I made a rod this sweet. As for the bait casting setup I haven't really focused on learning that (other than watching the slow motion tests done by Fuji's engineers) because I use acid wrap for my BC and OH rods and I'm not sure the NCG principle is applicable as the acid wrap design has its own specific requirements.
Anyway thank you so much for this. I always return for a refresher when I make a new spinning rod.
This was awesome, i been dreaming of building rods, even got 2 catalogs a year ago but never pulled trigger
Do it, I just built my first for my brothers 50th, I'm hooked. Starting a business now. Great fun & sense of achievement . Building one for myself now.
Falconer custom rods is a good teacher / mentor
Cheers Tight lines
I haven't started building rods yet, still researching what's needed and howto.
This is the first video I've found that explains the mathematics for setting up the first guide size and placement on the rod blank. Thank you for that.
There are other ways to do layouts, but this one consistently works well and is fairly easy to understand in my opinion. Best of luck to you on your first build when you get started on it!
I just finished a 6'6" ML Spinning Rod for my daughter using this concept. I test casted it today and I was blown away by the casting distance..I was using an 1/8 oz weight.
It is a good setup for most circumstances!
Excellent video explaining & showing us how to and the reasoning for guide placement. Thanks.
Thank you!
Thanks for taking the time to explain your understanding of techniques and upload your videos, your channel is great!
Thank you, I really appreciate the feedback!
Thanks for the information, you passed through something I have been struggling to learn more about, is there a MAGIC RATIO between the Reel Top diameter and the FIRST Guide? I saw you said that to figure out the correct spacing, you measured your reel top diameter in mm and multiplied it by 27... but what was the guide insert opening ? And why did you chose a 20 H size guide instead of 25 H...
I guess what I am really looking to figure out, what is the correct reel top diameter if my guide was a size 25H or 55mm ? Im looking to max casting distance for hardbaits minnows and jigs.
Many folks know about rod blanks, but few truly know about rod guides. I'm like you said, no expert, but your visual truly showcases the distinctly noticeable advantages to your rod guide alignment.
If you want to see super slow motion of the line as it passes through the guides with various rod guide layouts (including this one) and the problems that this system solves, have a look at this video: ua-cam.com/video/5ANbtcbNvYU/v-deo.html
That video clearly identifies the advantages to this sort of guide layout.
Fuji are the ones who came up with this layout and then the way it is easily laid out using some basic calculations was presented by RodMaker Magazine. This isn't a layout you would see on a normal off the shelf rod but some high end rods may use it. A whole lot of custom rod builders use it because they know what reel the customer will be using, so they can easily do the guide layout accordingly.
Used this video this mornin Kevin... Thank you...
Good deal, hope it helped some!
How do I measure rod guide sizes? If the plans calls for a size 30 guide, is that 30 mm of the outer or inside diameter of the guide insert itself? Also, what does the letters means, like H or J?
Thank you for this information.
You'd almost have to really enjoy projects like that. Have you had it out and used it yet?
Nope, still haven't finished it! I was just filming some work on it as a matter of fact. Going to post a video about removing the guides probably next week (just did that today) and I will do a video about the rod when it is done too.
@@TheFishingHobby Awesome!
modifying some fresh water rods for light line surf fishing similar to yours- Question where to buy guides? see some on ebay- from china or should I avoid these?
I have used them and they work OK for freshwater but probably would be more likely to rust. The quality is not as good, they also tend to be heavier. It is pretty hard to beat the quality of guides for the price you pay on Fuji guides. Even their low end guides are well made. You can buy them on eBay or from sites like Mudhole or Jann's Netcraft
So the standard practice of spacing the guides measuring from the tip of the rod is not the best method ?
Presently building a 10 foot Hexagraph spinning rod and have been concerned about finding a better method for guide placement. .
Thank you for providing a better layout for guide placement..
Using a Penn 5500LC spinning reel and 14 guides and tip..
Great informative video..
I didn't invent this method, just to be clear. This is something Fuji came up with. This method works great for me, but everyone likes different things so I can't say this way is better for everyone. My best recommendation would be to try some load testing both ways to see which you like better. I know that is a lot more work, but you will be able to tell which method should work better for you. Good luck with that build!
Thanks for info👏
Just recently I tried to modify a heavy feeder rod used for carp fishing.
And because i used a big carp reel something like 70+mm spool diameter I didn’t feel the first big guide is higher enough.
So I tried to modify guides to match my big reel. I didn’t tested yet my setup but if you have time can you check my last video to see if it’s any good ?
Anyway the rod is 14 ft with 4oz tip and I didn’t find any resources for guides spacing and stuff..
Thx again
It looks like it should work better now with the reel you are using. You can do what is called a “static load test” on the rod with the guides installed and check to make sure the bend of the rod looks like the load is well distributed between the guides. This will let you know if your guide spacing is going to work well or not. Ideally you would want to do that before permanently attaching the guides. From what I can see on the video, you should be okay but I would still do a static load test to make sure. Very nice job of getting the work done with what you have. I have wrapped guides like you did just holding the rod, but it isn’t easy! I made this video a long time ago about making a wrapping jig out of a cardboard box. You can give that a try next time and see if it helps you out a little: DIY: Make A Free/Inexpensive Fishing Rod Wrapping Jig Out Of A Cardboard Box!!!
ua-cam.com/video/wEC8ktjlYTk/v-deo.html
@@TheFishingHobby thank you 🙏
Static test should be fine anyway because is a heavy rod / practically bending starting in the other half of the rod to the tip( it’s like a softer surf rod).But I will do it anyway 👍
We use rods like this to push 100gr feeder to 120-150 meters, using monofilament 6 to 10Lb and braided shock leaders.
That sounds interesting! In the USA, carp fishing isn’t popular. I’m not sure why that is. I’ve watched some people on UA-cam in other countries fishing for carp and it looks like fun to me.
Yet another super informative video. Really well laid out and easy to understand. I don't suppose you fancy doing a video explaining rod guides do you? Just looking at Fuji alone gives me a headache. What with their BKWAG and CCKWFGs etc etc , it makes choosing guides really daunting for a newbie. Reguardless I thank you for what you have already done, it truly has helped a lot.
You know, that is a good idea. I need to do a video about that. I'm a little busy right now building some finishing motor and dryer motor setups that I will be selling. When things settle down a bit, I will work on a video about guides. Thanks for bringing that to my attention and the kind words.
@@TheFishingHobby That's brilliant, many thanks
Kevin, maybe Im doin something wrong in my figures, but this dont ad up. My reel is 44.45mm, times that by 27. That converts into inches at 47.25". That dont work. What am I doin wrong? Ideas?
Richard from Kansas;)
Thats on a 7' rod. That puts the choker 23 1/2" away from front of my reel. Is that to far. Im just a beginner and what I have learned most say 18 to 22" is where it should be. Im just confused. The crb book says on that 7' rod the choker is recomended at 50 3/4. Its only 3 1/2" difference. Will that matter you think or not?
@@ramoutdoors6415 I think you have the choker guide and the stripper guide confused. The choker guide will be the same size as your running guides that are on the top part of the rod. The stripper guide is the first large guide in front of the reel (and usually between 18-22 inches as you mentioned). You usually use a stripper and one or two reduction guides before you get to the choker guide. I think I put link in the description of this video to the original article in Rod Builder magazine. Take a look at that and see if it helps you out some. If not let me know and I'll try to help you out if I can. Good luck and I hope that helped some!
Oh yeah, and as a general rule of thumb the stripper guide should be about half the size of the front lip of your spool. For example, if you have a 40mm spool lip, the first guide (stripper guide) should be around 20mm in diameter. I've found with braided fishing line you can go smaller. Mono pulls off in larger coils so the bigger stripper guide ring size helps.
@@TheFishingHobby yep I meant stripper, my bad. Yes I will take a look at the link. Thanks Kevin!!!
Thanks! Great improvement ideas! Anyone have experience with AFTs Microwave Guides with braided line?
This is a great video. However. How do you figure out what size diameter choker and reduction guides that are needed?
There is a link in the description box of this video to the article that describes how to determine that. Hope that helps!
I have a 7ft spinning rod. And I’m not sure what size to get from Fugi KL-H 209 or 259. Please help me lol. I’m stressed and also I’m not sure how to space them
I wish I could help, but most of the sizing and spacing is something I do for what I’m building for myself. What I need and what you need are probably two different things. You can find generic layouts and sizing information online in various places but I personally never use those. I do most everything by sight/experience and I tend to build my rods based on the reel I will be using. Your best bet would probably be to look at some generic layouts from mud hole or some other site and build based on that. Then pay close attention as you use the rod and try to determine what adjustments you would make to the next one to better suit your personal needs. For example, I tend to use smaller diameter guides with higher frames than most people because it works better for what I’m looking for in a rod. Generic layouts will definitely get you in the ballpark and you will be able to build a perfectly usable rod based on something like that. Keep notes for what you would do differently on the next one. I wish I could be of more help than that, but that is how I had to learn to do things and you will learn a lot along the way too.
Thanks for sharing.I'm just confused, should I use same guide spacing on same length but different action of rods?
It works well for any rod type I've come across. Of course your spacing will be dependent on the type of reel you are using. For example a 7 foot long ultralight rod will have a small ultralight reel with a smaller spool diameter so that will have an effect on where the choker guide is placed (moving it closer to the reel) so that also affects the number and size of your reduction guides. A 7 foot long heavy action rod will use a larger reel with a larger spool diameter which will move the choker guide closer to the tip side of the rod and require larger diameter reduction guides and probably more of them as well.
I hope that makes sense. I put a link to the original article from Rod Builder Magazine in the description that may help you out too.
Hope that helps!
You really have to let go of the idea of preordained guide placements. Forget about charts and traditional wisdom from the past. Everything is determined by the size of your reel, more specifically the height from the center of the spool to the top of the rod blank.
very good video.
on these old rods do you trust the factory spine of the rod or do you try a set for that?
also do you thing braid or monofilament changes anything in your guide elections?
thanks
john
Thank you! On this particular rod I'm just leaving the factory installed guides in place for all of them except for two of the reduction guides that will need to be removed. For simplicity, I'm not going to worry about the spine on this one. If I were building on a fresh blank, I would check for the spine and build off of that. As far as rod guides and braid go, any modern guides on the market are built to work with braid. There is one exception to that and it is Kevlar braided line, you will want titanium guides for that type of line. Most braids are a polyethylene based line which really isn't very abrasive at all.
Great questions and thanks for watching!
Looks interesting! Do you have English subtitles?
Some nice information. I learned something.
Thanks for checking out the video 👍
where do you start measuring rod length?
End to end of the blank
@@TheFishingHobby ok I was just wondering, I'm from south Africa, and we tend to have the reels pretty close to the butt of the rod compared to the USA style... wasn't sure if it matters.
@@poepflater I usually recommend doing what feels best to you. Numbers and predetermined distances don't mean much if it doesn't feel right to you. Good luck to you on what you are working on 👍
Good information. I dont build my own but might mod one.
It's a rabbit hole, next thing you know you would be shopping for rod blanks 😁
great video, great help.
I'm glad it helped and I really appreciate you taking the time to comment and provide feedback!
Can you make a video about the kr koncept too?
I may be doing that video soon. I have a blank that I will be building out soon and I think I will be using the KR concept guide placement on that one. If I do, I will be sure to do a video on it.
Nice
👍👍