I was editing a corporate message for the employees, sent in a draft and when I got the notes back it said that there was something off. “Can you use a different angle a different take or something?” After going back and forth a few times we realized that I’d accidentally edited out all the blinks and it was causing uncanny valley. 😂
I find it funny how blinking removal is so second nature to you that you "accidentally" did it without even realizing even though it certainly isn't a frivolous task
In the blink of the eye is an amazing book indeed. Simon interpretation of the blink for me is a "how have you never thought about it like that before" moment. I love the fact that he's both appreciative of what the next-generation of editors have contributed but also how he believes some Hollywood standards would take UA-cam to the next level.
I'm kinda curious how the deblinking is usually done. Some sort of feathered mask and time reframing on the eye? Anyway, fun interview and what a nice guy!
I would probably just cut out the blink and do an optical flow transition between the frames before and after. Then, if that creates any strange artefacts, mask out just the eyes and track them onto the original footage below.
@@alex_montoya Not slow motion, no. There's a transition which morphs from one clip to another. I think it's called "Optical Flow" in Final Cut and "Morph Cut" in Premiere.
This video is amazing to me... like I've said before... as an actress back in even 2006 it was REEL FILM... then it changed in 2008 to digital filmmaking... AMAZING... 3 cameras running... instantly being able to see the footage without having to send the REEL FILM out for dailys .... Holy Moly... Then... you're talking about editing on site... "WHAT" ???!!! I love this video...
Love hearing from people who are passionate about what they're doing, and just hearing him talk about these episodes you can just tell he loves this project
Editors often miss the significance of a blink because they're not trained as actors. Murch intuitively understands, but even he doesn't seem to grasp the mechanics behind it. Trained actors often blink on purpose to signify a moment of transition. If you think I'm bullshitting, first read Stanislavsky's seminal book on acting where he defines "beats" (in actuality he was trying to say "bits"), and then Michael Caine's "Acting in Film" where he shares the intent behind not blinking. An "intentioned" blink is often the ideal place to cut because the actor has completed an emotional phrase.
I love how in these interviews were able to see the differences between tv shows/films and UA-cam. I always learn something about both. Thanks for doing these podcasts.
Andor is a masterpiece in all respects. I absolutely love that we're able to finally see the very early stages and birth of the rebellion beginning to spark into a full scale galactic civil war.
I just wanted to say, I don't get sick of the sponsorships on this channel. no build up, just hello cheeky segway, nice quick sponsor and back to the podcast. Also really enjoy this channel
i never even thought of this blink removal thing, but now that i see it it makes so much sense. once i finish this ep i'm gonna apply it immediately 😂 thank you hillier and friends
Would love to see a tutorial on removing blinking, I can’t find a video anywhere and I think that would be a valuable tutorial to have somewhere online
Absolutely second this. I feel like there's probably a big difference between an amateur blink-removal and a pro blink-removal! Viewers are *so* sensitive to the details of human eyes , I'd love to learn how to cut blinks without making it look unnatural. For example, what if the blink is accompanied by a muscle twitch in the brow or cheek? do you attempt to smooth that out too? or do you just leave it? How many frames do you have to touch up to remove a single blink? What's the upper limit of the length of blinks that you can remove? etc. Many questions, I really hope some educational materials are created on this topic. I'd love to learn more about it!
Thank you so much for making these videos. I’ve been making silly little videos for 3 years on UA-cam but only started taking the storytelling aspect seriously this year. I didn’t even know professional video editors have to make so many creative decisions. Your channel made me realize I would love to be a professional video editor!!
Marcia Lucas is credited for what the original Star Wars became. It's doubtful it would have as successful without her editing prowess. She made that movie and created a cultural phenomenon.
It’s so cool to see him name drop all of these people on UA-cam. Especially Thomas Flight, his channel is probably my favorite at the moment. I stop everything I’m doing to watch his videos when he uploads.
How did the youtube algorithm know that this video is exactly what I wanted to watch! This is the first podcast on editing that I've ever seen and it is a chockful of valuable information. I'm a new subscriber for sure and will be looking for more!
Came for the subject matter being discussed - kept staying on because the level of detail and connection between the creator & guest (and not just Andor) made this a joy to watch. Which - by the end - gotta say - now I want to come back. ;) Subscribed (& following over on Spotify). Thank you.
Just an idea, but a compiled list of his recommended channels in the description might be a good idea. I'm sure others like me scrubbed through and got them all ourselves to watch some cool new post stuff. Great content, love it, thanks!
3:12 That reminded me more to iconic the scene from Alien³. See here: "Alien 3 (1/5) Movie CLIP - Dr. Clemens Killed (1992) HD" at 2:00 Alien³ was released in 1992, a year before Jurassic Park.
On blinking, home alone Marv head on fire, he blinks while screaming and it makes it all look fake. Also in Cameron's aliens directors cut, when newt sees her father with the facehugger and she's blinking as she screams- just kills the whole effect.
Great video, very captivating video learning about all these interesting techniques that make us think more about what we watch on a daily basis. Really cool of Simon to have seen some of your videos beforehand too.
with his comment on youtubers rising by using cliffhangers to next weeks episode. i think jetlaggeds series’s do it very well, but at the same time youtube is a beast that makes it very easy to forget about the fact there’s something new coming. i don’t think anyone’s found the groove to make that memory in how competitive this market is
7:10 LOL this guy totally didn't get the point that te famous editor was trying to make and made an arbitrary rule for himself. he cut before the blink because that's usually when a person change his thought about something and it's a good point to change the POV of the scene. it's NOT because he doesn't want to see someone blink.
I'm embarrassed I did not know this was a thing. This explains something that has always bugged me about The Phantom Menace. There is a moment at young Anakin's dinner table where his eyes seem to be unnatural for just a blip. I'm now quite certain it was an early blink removal.
20:48 Agreed 100% with Simon Smith. But your argument for why youtube is this way, is really interesting. What I would love is some of Mr Beast's classics, on a new channel edited to be longer versions. Hide and Seek is 12mins.
This is an example from an animated film, but I just happened to notice that Santa in The Polar Express only blinks like 2 or 3 times in his entire scene in that movie. The rest of the characters seemed to blink like normal people... I assumed it was a way to convey that Santa is always watching lol.
The whole “no blinking” concept made me think of the episode “Blink” from Doctor Who 2005 reboot (s03e10). If you’ve seen it, you know what I’m talking about. If not, watch it and find out.
A youtube chanel that does endings really well is Beta Squad - at the end of every video they have a trailer for next weeks video. I think this is a great way of doing things because you don't even realise it's over and then all of a sudden you're getting hyped for the next one
Tony Gilroy has said that after season two of Andor he is moving on to other non-Star Wars things. I am eternally grateful to him and his creative team for elevating Star Wars to such a great level, but I hope LucasFilm can entice him and his production team into something more. Perhaps a trilogy covering the discovery of the Force thousands of years ago,* the rise of the Jedi (and the Sith) and whatever else he feels like exploring. I would certainly prefer his team tackle a future Star Wars project rather than Rian Johnson or Taika Waititi. * Remember that Obi Wan told Luke that the Jedi had been the guardians of peace for "over a thousand generations", which is 25,000 years or more depending on how you count a generation.
can you guys do a video on videomaking based for Instagram Reels/TikTok videos? I use these social media websites for my business but would love to see the process on video editors who solely focus on the editing for reels/tiktok/shorts. Keep up all the great work 🎉
Yea I don’t play TikTok,but man on these app have some amazing filmmaking and worth learning. I can sense the influence on those stuff in Andor as well,some scene is border line Pepsi commercial and it work.
I was listening (while "mindless editing") up to moment where you start discussing blinking, and I was thinking... Walter Murch, this guy is the next Walter Murch... He's taking it to the next level. Yes!
If you watch Jet Lag: The Game, they stretch their videos out into 3-5 video series. They also almost always end on a cliff hanger. It's also more similar to tv as their videos average 30-45 mins long. So it is possible to successfully do it.
It's funny to think that UA-cam creators feel the pressure to edit for immediacy, when here I am watching 4 hour long UA-cam video essays. Haha. I think that says something about the diversity of content and audiences online.
Most of that I figure comes from just the way that the UA-cam algorithm works. Usually when people sit down to watch a movie, they've already committed to a slow burn with a great payoff. With a UA-cam video it's usually people just clicking on something to distract themselves. Not to necessarily hear a story. Granted that's not everyone but I think that's why the algorithm promotes early viewer retention.
If anyone wants to watch a hilarious yet genius show when it comes to the camera work and editing, watch Trailer Park Boys but only seasons 1-7, mike clattenberg was a genius and made the camera a character in the show, and some of the shows funniest moments are only because of the editing
Another thing that I noticed and it might just be some kind of new form of buffering... But on my Disney Plus when I'm watching these shows sometimes the background will just randomly wiggle. Almost like a heat haze or something like that. I'm not sure if it's a deliberate thing or if it's just like a new advanced form of buffering. It only seems to happen on Disney Plus things.
Video compression heavily depends on motion detection, and storing only the motion (also compressed!) relative to the earlier frames instead of all of the actual image. How much you notice this depends on what compression settings are used, but it is always there, even on blu-ray.
Great interview. I'm still stuck on how the blink removal actually works though. Is it just removing a frame or two on the blink? He mentioned something about FX being involved so is there some comp going on to fix it? Seems like that route would be a lot of work though.
ok ... hope this makes sense ... The frame before the person blinks, I grab a freeze frame ... then I cut around the open eye, with a soft edge ... then I track that to the eyebrows (or another part of the face, but not the blinking eye, as that moves) until the cut point. I only do it if the blink is happening a few frames before I want to cut. Nothing more special than that.
Severance is the best show of the year and it's not even close. You guys should do a breakdown of the final episode of that series. Also a breakdown of The Bear.
I was editing a corporate message for the employees, sent in a draft and when I got the notes back it said that there was something off. “Can you use a different angle a different take or something?” After going back and forth a few times we realized that I’d accidentally edited out all the blinks and it was causing uncanny valley. 😂
I find it funny how blinking removal is so second nature to you that you "accidentally" did it without even realizing even though it certainly isn't a frivolous task
In the blink of the eye is an amazing book indeed. Simon interpretation of the blink for me is a "how have you never thought about it like that before" moment. I love the fact that he's both appreciative of what the next-generation of editors have contributed but also how he believes some Hollywood standards would take UA-cam to the next level.
I'm kinda curious how the deblinking is usually done. Some sort of feathered mask and time reframing on the eye? Anyway, fun interview and what a nice guy!
I would probably just cut out the blink and do an optical flow transition between the frames before and after. Then, if that creates any strange artefacts, mask out just the eyes and track them onto the original footage below.
@@andybrice2711 that makes sense! i've used that to hold a line but never for a blink! good call
@@andybrice2711 you mean mask out the eyes and slow down the clip with mask and then track them on to the unedited original shot?
@@alex_montoya Not slow motion, no. There's a transition which morphs from one clip to another. I think it's called "Optical Flow" in Final Cut and "Morph Cut" in Premiere.
@@andybrice2711 sure, i know.
This video is amazing to me... like I've said before... as an actress back in even 2006 it was REEL FILM... then it changed in 2008 to digital filmmaking... AMAZING... 3 cameras running... instantly being able to see the footage without having to send the REEL FILM out for dailys .... Holy Moly...
Then... you're talking about editing on site... "WHAT" ???!!!
I love this video...
dailies
Filmmaking is wild. We went from cutting to the blink to cutting blinks out entirely.
wow what a conversation. Simon is such a nice and humble guy and a great editor. keep bringing these mate
Excellent guest! We've been editing for 35 years, and we're STILL learning. Great show.
Love hearing from people who are passionate about what they're doing, and just hearing him talk about these episodes you can just tell he loves this project
Editors often miss the significance of a blink because they're not trained as actors. Murch intuitively understands, but even he doesn't seem to grasp the mechanics behind it. Trained actors often blink on purpose to signify a moment of transition. If you think I'm bullshitting, first read Stanislavsky's seminal book on acting where he defines "beats" (in actuality he was trying to say "bits"), and then Michael Caine's "Acting in Film" where he shares the intent behind not blinking. An "intentioned" blink is often the ideal place to cut because the actor has completed an emotional phrase.
Here in New Mexico USA... we love our "Breaking Bad"
I think this video and this "Gang" of absolute geniuses are on to something...
I love how in these interviews were able to see the differences between tv shows/films and UA-cam. I always learn something about both. Thanks for doing these podcasts.
it's insane how your guy bring these secrets to us. this information is worth thousands of dollars
This is such a remarkable conversation. I love to learn more about Andor.
Andor is a masterpiece in all respects. I absolutely love that we're able to finally see the very early stages and birth of the rebellion beginning to spark into a full scale galactic civil war.
What a treasure this guy is. I hope he is part of season2
I just wanted to say, I don't get sick of the sponsorships on this channel. no build up, just hello cheeky segway, nice quick sponsor and back to the podcast.
Also really enjoy this channel
i never even thought of this blink removal thing, but now that i see it it makes so much sense. once i finish this ep i'm gonna apply it immediately 😂 thank you hillier and friends
Man, it's crazy how UA-camrs can interview editors and producers of AAA tier Hollywood projects! UA-camrs have come a long way.
Would love to see a tutorial on removing blinking, I can’t find a video anywhere and I think that would be a valuable tutorial to have somewhere online
Me too!
Absolutely second this. I feel like there's probably a big difference between an amateur blink-removal and a pro blink-removal! Viewers are *so* sensitive to the details of human eyes , I'd love to learn how to cut blinks without making it look unnatural. For example, what if the blink is accompanied by a muscle twitch in the brow or cheek? do you attempt to smooth that out too? or do you just leave it? How many frames do you have to touch up to remove a single blink? What's the upper limit of the length of blinks that you can remove? etc.
Many questions, I really hope some educational materials are created on this topic. I'd love to learn more about it!
I expect it involves selecting frames and editing the open eyes from another frame in and pasting that right back
This podcast is making me go from dreading video editing to loving editing.
How so?
Thank you so much for making these videos. I’ve been making silly little videos for 3 years on UA-cam but only started taking the storytelling aspect seriously this year. I didn’t even know professional video editors have to make so many creative decisions. Your channel made me realize I would love to be a professional video editor!!
Marcia Lucas is credited for what the original Star Wars became. It's doubtful it would have as successful without her editing prowess. She made that movie and created a cultural phenomenon.
star wars was mess when george cut it - marcia saved the movie and won a very well deserved oscar for it
As much as I love ALL your content, conversations with seasoned, high-level pros are simply gold. Nothing compares. Thank you so much!
It’s so cool to see him name drop all of these people on UA-cam. Especially Thomas Flight, his channel is probably my favorite at the moment. I stop everything I’m doing to watch his videos when he uploads.
I’m picking up what you’re putting down. Thanks for this talk
How did the youtube algorithm know that this video is exactly what I wanted to watch! This is the first podcast on editing that I've ever seen and it is a chockful of valuable information. I'm a new subscriber for sure and will be looking for more!
Came for the subject matter being discussed - kept staying on because the level of detail and connection between the creator & guest (and not just Andor) made this a joy to watch. Which - by the end - gotta say - now I want to come back. ;) Subscribed (& following over on Spotify). Thank you.
Wow this is such great information. I’m rewatching this taking notes
Just an idea, but a compiled list of his recommended channels in the description might be a good idea. I'm sure others like me scrubbed through and got them all ourselves to watch some cool new post stuff. Great content, love it, thanks!
First time seeing one of your YT video, instant sub.
Welcome aboard!
Great to see two knowledgeable people having such an open discourse.
why are the intros to these so good it's insane
3:12 That reminded me more to iconic the scene from Alien³. See here: "Alien 3 (1/5) Movie CLIP - Dr. Clemens Killed (1992) HD" at 2:00
Alien³ was released in 1992, a year before Jurassic Park.
Every episode is amazing. Thank you
My favorite podcast on UA-cam!
This is gold. Cant believe this is free
Always love this show!! Thanks for making
Brilliant guy, and amazing episode once again!! ❤️
On blinking, home alone Marv head on fire, he blinks while screaming and it makes it all look fake. Also in Cameron's aliens directors cut, when newt sees her father with the facehugger and she's blinking as she screams- just kills the whole effect.
one of my favorite episodes, very entertaining and interesting to watch.
Really really cool and indepth interview, thank you so much. Now I just have to learn how to remove blinks...
This was awesome. Just subbed!
Brilliant episode. Thanks so much.
Great video, very captivating video learning about all these interesting techniques that make us think more about what we watch on a daily basis. Really cool of Simon to have seen some of your videos beforehand too.
I love how this interview turns into a conversation when Simon starts probing into the UA-cam process.
with his comment on youtubers rising by using cliffhangers to next weeks episode. i think jetlaggeds series’s do it very well, but at the same time youtube is a beast that makes it very easy to forget about the fact there’s something new coming. i don’t think anyone’s found the groove to make that memory in how competitive this market is
7:10 LOL this guy totally didn't get the point that te famous editor was trying to make and made an arbitrary rule for himself. he cut before the blink because that's usually when a person change his thought about something and it's a good point to change the POV of the scene. it's NOT because he doesn't want to see someone blink.
addicted to your chanel plz keep posting these breakdowns
I'm embarrassed I did not know this was a thing. This explains something that has always bugged me about The Phantom Menace. There is a moment at young Anakin's dinner table where his eyes seem to be unnatural for just a blip. I'm now quite certain it was an early blink removal.
This was a marvellous conversation
20:48 Agreed 100% with Simon Smith.
But your argument for why youtube is this way, is really interesting.
What I would love is some of Mr Beast's classics, on a new channel edited to be longer versions. Hide and Seek is 12mins.
This is an example from an animated film, but I just happened to notice that Santa in The Polar Express only blinks like 2 or 3 times in his entire scene in that movie. The rest of the characters seemed to blink like normal people... I assumed it was a way to convey that Santa is always watching lol.
great interview, fascinating
Great conversation. You did a great job communicating your thoughts of UA-cam vs Feature films. Bravo
Another great episode. Thanks!
Great episode 🤩🤩
ANOTHER UPLOAD !!!! I LOVE YOU GUYS
The moment at 7:00 is just like Slughorns edited memory from Harry Potter and the Half Blood Prince
The whole “no blinking” concept made me think of the episode “Blink” from Doctor Who 2005 reboot (s03e10). If you’ve seen it, you know what I’m talking about. If not, watch it and find out.
This was brilliant. So entertaining and informative.
A youtube chanel that does endings really well is Beta Squad - at the end of every video they have a trailer for next weeks video. I think this is a great way of doing things because you don't even realise it's over and then all of a sudden you're getting hyped for the next one
In regard to the Endings section, Sailing VLOGS like 'SV Delos' have an episodic structure with a Next Time sizzle quickie at the end.
Always look forward to learning from these guys and the amazing guests they have on!
Would love to know how to manage to remove blinks without it being noticed.
Tony Gilroy has said that after season two of Andor he is moving on to other non-Star Wars things. I am eternally grateful to him and his creative team for elevating Star Wars to such a great level, but I hope LucasFilm can entice him and his production team into something more. Perhaps a trilogy covering the discovery of the Force thousands of years ago,* the rise of the Jedi (and the Sith) and whatever else he feels like exploring. I would certainly prefer his team tackle a future Star Wars project rather than Rian Johnson or Taika Waititi.
* Remember that Obi Wan told Luke that the Jedi had been the guardians of peace for "over a thousand generations", which is 25,000 years or more depending on how you count a generation.
Hope Jordan got well! Thanks Simon and Hayden plus teams! Raza :)
can you guys do a video on videomaking based for Instagram Reels/TikTok videos?
I use these social media websites for my business but would love to see the process on video editors who solely focus on the editing for reels/tiktok/shorts.
Keep up all the great work 🎉
Walter Murch books are all great . Also, Dr Karen Pearlman's "Cutting Rhythmns" has some good insights, too. Dig it.
Yea I don’t play TikTok,but man on these app have some amazing filmmaking and worth learning. I can sense the influence on those stuff in Andor as well,some scene is border line Pepsi commercial and it work.
My attention goes to weird things sometimes. Is that gaffer's tape on his fingers? I was trying to see how many times he moved it around 😂
You have to be careful when selecting the razor-blade tool in your editing software. It's an occupational hazard.
Excellent
The last two podcasts have been my favorite out of the whole series! Paul Rogers next? 👀
I was listening (while "mindless editing") up to moment where you start discussing blinking, and I was thinking... Walter Murch, this guy is the next Walter Murch... He's taking it to the next level. Yes!
Film makers REMOVING the shake. Joy!
I didn’t realize how important editing is
Amazing conversation 🔥
If you watch Jet Lag: The Game, they stretch their videos out into 3-5 video series. They also almost always end on a cliff hanger. It's also more similar to tv as their videos average 30-45 mins long. So it is possible to successfully do it.
It's funny to think that UA-cam creators feel the pressure to edit for immediacy, when here I am watching 4 hour long UA-cam video essays. Haha. I think that says something about the diversity of content and audiences online.
Amazing ❤️❤️❤️❤️
The Thumbnail 👌🏼
Most of that I figure comes from just the way that the UA-cam algorithm works.
Usually when people sit down to watch a movie, they've already committed to a slow burn with a great payoff.
With a UA-cam video it's usually people just clicking on something to distract themselves. Not to necessarily hear a story.
Granted that's not everyone but I think that's why the algorithm promotes early viewer retention.
Psychologically ... Blinking shows demure... that when a person blinks more than once.. they have sacrificed themselves to the enemy.
You need to get the editor of Uncharted on this podcast. That guy knew how to make a retention-focused intro😂
HAYDEN WE LOVE STIR!
If anyone wants to watch a hilarious yet genius show when it comes to the camera work and editing, watch Trailer Park Boys but only seasons 1-7, mike clattenberg was a genius and made the camera a character in the show, and some of the shows funniest moments are only because of the editing
Another thing that I noticed and it might just be some kind of new form of buffering...
But on my Disney Plus when I'm watching these shows sometimes the background will just randomly wiggle. Almost like a heat haze or something like that.
I'm not sure if it's a deliberate thing or if it's just like a new advanced form of buffering.
It only seems to happen on Disney Plus things.
Video compression heavily depends on motion detection, and storing only the motion (also compressed!) relative to the earlier frames instead of all of the actual image. How much you notice this depends on what compression settings are used, but it is always there, even on blu-ray.
We need a breakdown on Bo Burnham Inside
Yess!!
Stir is a great idea but not available outside the US 😢
First off, KITTIE! :3 30:09
Second, Neebs Gaming does episodic things on UA-cam, sometimes with cliffhangers. Check them out. :)
This gon be good
Unrelated, but could i ask what platform you use to record the interview, Great quality and great video
He mentioned dynamic subtitles - he should watch the 2004 Russian movie "Night Watch" (Nochnoy Dozor).
Great interview. I'm still stuck on how the blink removal actually works though. Is it just removing a frame or two on the blink? He mentioned something about FX being involved so is there some comp going on to fix it? Seems like that route would be a lot of work though.
ok ... hope this makes sense ... The frame before the person blinks, I grab a freeze frame ... then I cut around the open eye, with a soft edge ... then I track that to the eyebrows (or another part of the face, but not the blinking eye, as that moves) until the cut point. I only do it if the blink is happening a few frames before I want to cut. Nothing more special than that.
@@mrsimonsmith Okay cool thanks, that makes sense. Very interesting!
Have you included a link anywhere to the TikTok of the 2 sister's saying goodnight to each other? Might be good to credit them if not?
Brilliant chat 👏 😸
brilliant.
Severance is the best show of the year and it's not even close. You guys should do a breakdown of the final episode of that series. Also a breakdown of The Bear.
I Second that, severance was phenomenal
In the Blink of an Eye I saw the RayBan branded clear lens and checked the fuck out.
What is the name of that website your channel was talking about that has music you can pay for to add to your own yt videos?
Track Club - www.trackclub.com/referral-landing/?via=the-editing-podcast
"I was a big fan of Obi wan" okay 😂 😁