Warclubs with Ernest Gendron - From Traditional to Modern
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- Опубліковано 14 жов 2024
- Join your favorite tomahawk merchant (me) as we talk warclubs with Ernest Gendron!
Ernest is a traditional Native American artist who has had access to historic, battle proven warclubs used by warriors in the Woodlands and Northern Plains regions of North America, and he has made numerous warclubs of diverse design, all finished by hand.
In this video Ernest shares his background, interest in warclubs, insights about traditional designs, and his concept to apply this to our modern age.
We also discuss an upcoming collaboration-the Thumper! It’s a wearable warclub-a WearClub-that you can comfortably carry on your person. So check out the design, prototyping process, and combative capabilities that this offers.
Thumpers will be coming out SOON so be on our mailing list to get first notice.
Also, a bonus topic-were North American warclubs thrown in combat? Ernest weighs in.
It’s been a while since Wingard Wearables has posted a long form video and I really appreciate Ernest’s time, enthusiasm, and expertise he has provided to make this video possible.
He makes many traditional weapons, including warclubs. I am a happy owner of one of his warclubs and recommend you check him out on Instragram at:
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Be sure to share this video with anyone you know that is an appreciator of traditional warclubs, weapon design, or stick fighting and remember to BE EDGY.
#warclub #nativeamerican #stickfighting #coldsteel
I gave my daughter a traditional war club when she was 19 and moved out of state.
I went to visit her some months later and was happy to see it on her bedside table. I mentioned it to her and she said is stays in bed with her when she sleeps.
Ball-headed or gunstock? Is it root burl? Just curious! Lol I can’t get enough war clubs.
That’s a good gift!
@@davidgeldner2167
A ball-headed war club that I got at Atlanta Cutlery. It’s a hand made replica, some kind of wood.
I just checked their website and they don’t sell it any more. They sell another one that looks similar but made of polymer. The one I bought doesn’t have the spike.
@@wingardwearables
When she turned 16 and could go on dates with boys, I gave her a switchblade to keep in her purse.
I asked her if she knew where to stick this if she needed it, and she said “Dad, I took taekwondo for five years. I know where all the important muscles are.”
I was very proud.
She still carries it.
@@arctodussimus6198 awesome!
It took twenty years for a good long discussion on ball head war clubs video to get uploaded to UA-cam. Cheers.
Glad you enjoyed it 👍
According to Matt Easton, whose opinion I respect a great deal, a nicely treated piece of hardwood can actually outlast steel, depending on the geometry and what exactly you’re bashing it against. Obviously depends on the wood itself, how it’s grown etc, but also how it’s treated.
The thing is that a steel piece of the same shape would not only be weighty in your hand, but it’s own weight would take away from the integrity and not really add *that* much power to a swing that’s already fully capable of cracking bones.
Love every second of listening to you guys chat about one of my favorite topics. Thanks and plz keep it up!
Thanks for your comment! Yeah I’ve heard a materials scientist, who specializes in state of the art composite materials, describe wood as “nature’s composite.” It’s truly impressive how durable a piece of wood can be of the property species, grain orientation, and condition.
@@wingardwearables Definitely. It’s just a matter of treating it well and growing it well!
Huge fan of these videos discussing everything from modern uses to historical events.
Thank you! We hope to do more of these
I now need to make one of these with a carved out hand grasping the ball
This was excellent. I have a small child, work 2 jobs and a few other things going on in life. I generally only watch about an hour of TV a week. It took me a little bit but I had to make sure I watched every minute of this, very worth it. Everything you touched on I wanted to hear about.
Size difference between Eastern woodlands vs plains and the reason why. Awesome to here. I completely agree. I grew up all over the east coast, from the Carolinas to main. The forests differ but all can be so massively dense that you can’t get a full swing.
Size vs weight. Great points. I teach modern combatives but the same principles apply. We will work with both long and short stick. Once you get exceptionally short you need some descent weight but a little length and leverage go a long way. Also trekking anything heavy for miles sucks!
As for throwing a club, I have to say I’m sure it happened but that doesn’t make it the norm. Someone grabbing an m4 by the barrel and swinging it like a club also happen, doesn’t mean it’s common practice or what the military teaches. People get way too hung up on the weird random occurrences at the cost of what was more likely. I see the same thing now teaching self defense. People get obsessed with this random event or this particular threat while overlooking all the much more likely possibilities. I’m still scared how many people will pay me to teach them to protect themselves fro random violence but won’t take a first aid course.
Sorry, long comment for a long video. Loved it again, will always be one of the 12!
Very flattered to read this comment and so glad you enjoyed this video-and can’t disagree with anything you said. It was definitely our longest video, but it did cover a LOT of information, so hopefully it was worth it for the 12 special people!
There's just something about a war club that makes you just want to hit stuff,its that primal instinct I think really interesting video thank you ❤
Glad you enjoyed it!
This is such an interesting subject. Hand-to-hand weapons are so much more personal in their use.
How easy is it to aim a rifle and shoot something? There’s nothing personal about it. There’s no reverence except what you have in your heart. But using a knife, a sword, or especially a club, has to come from deep inside you. Either instinctively, or reactionary, it is very personal.
Especially when you look at some of the historic warclubs-which had faces carved into the ball section-eyes, noses, even metal spikes as protruding tongues-up close these weapons look terrifying, and there’s evidence that some of the warclubs were ornately decorated with the depictions, tattoos, and personal war record of the individual warrior-and left at the scene of a raid as the “calling card” to show not only which tribe, but which warrior accomplished the deed. Deeply personal weapons.
Amazing guys. lol I have been in those things also from my early childhood and also making my own bows and arrows… but clubs, sticks and spears were my first ever creation and still today playing with those. Last few years I get into Irish sticks and clubs or cudgels (Shillelagh) from blackthorn and oak.
For such a “primitive” implement-the design space is nearly infinite
You speak my language, sir.
Yesssss! Old, native wisdom meets modern, practical approach on design elements.
Agree! That unique combo of Old School meets New School
From what I’ve gathered directly from the mouths of trained/experienced soldiers, melee weapons actually do get used quite often on the battlefield and one even went so far as to say quote, “Bludgeoning weapons OP” and another told me when he was a scout leading a battalion some infantry actually did carry things like tomahawks (one in particular he said was absolutely terrifying with them) and even baseball bats and they call them “unconventional weapons”. Basically I’m told the way it works is that you’re issued your weapons standard, but then when you deploy on each mission you and your team decide what you’re bringing with. It can be virtually anything you feel you may need, from an epinephrine shot to a tiny shiv to a huge bat.
Just to put that in perspective, clubs were never really phased out of military use in the USA we just don’t need to issue clubs when your rifle works wonder functioning as a club itself.
To clarify, obviously shooting a target at a distance is preferable but to quote the Scout I talk about here, “there’s always one straggler” and what he means is that in a firefight out of let’s say 10 people it’s likely one will sneak up close to your guys, and you can’t shoot a dude that’s on top of your dude. Either your dude gets him with his knife/etc, or you run over and get him with your knife/etc.
Agree, and I have spoken to a few veterans that have used blades or been stabbed in hand-to-hand combat. For warfighters that are doing room clearing, it’s not unheard of any most will come prepared for that worst case scenario. So when I describe something as rare, I just mean that the vast, vast majority of modern soldiers are never in that situation. But in our past, say, in the age of flintlocks, hand-to-hand combat was experienced or witnessed first hand by the vast majority of soldiers, warriors, militia, etc.
@@davidgeldner2167 Also we make a few of our products specifically to be interfaced with modern MOLLE/PALS gear on a plate carrier or outer tactical vest. It’s going to shine the rare scenarios where the ballistic weapon cannot be used-such as when your comrade gets tangled up with an opponent, and you need to peel the opponent off of him. Thanks for your comments
@@wingardwearables Absolutely, no argument. I just mean to add that it does happen for the sake of pointing out that war clubs really aren’t outdated or gratuitous despite how it may seem from certain perspectives!
@@wingardwearables Exactly! “Peeling” so to speak is huge, it may be rare but it’s almost always life or death when it does happen.
This is really cool, I look forward to seeing what y'all come up with
I hope the Thumper is successful because there are so many designs to explore!
@@wingardwearables a sabre style club would be an interesting option
We need someone to count the "you know"-s in this video😂😂im sure it's way over 100. But jokes aside very cool informational video! Keep up the good work! 👌🏻
Thank you-hopefully there will be a lot of WearClubs in our future.
Okay, now that I’ve had time to watch the entire video, I gotta say you are correct about the primal instinct associated with an impact weapon.
Sometimes I get the feeling that in a knife fight, I might rather have a good club than a knife.
I have collapsible batons (of varying lengths) in most of my kits. Definitely in all my urban kits.
Yeah impact weapons-clubs and tomahawks, definitely pack maximum power at maximum reach. Can stop an attack instantly if the blow strikes the right place. Knives (and spike tools), especially those of common EDC size, are amazing, accessible tools and definitely deadly but very hard to instantly incapacitate a determined opponent-takes more time. Still, I would carry both.
Whenever I see Hurl Stick (for playing Hurling), I think "war club".
It would be neat project to modify one of those "sticks".
Thank you. Great discussion. I learned a lot.
Glad you enjoyed it
I saw a nice(?) Improvised war club on a dog path near my home. Probably for use against coyotes. It was a 20 inch stick, with spikes in one end and a wrapped handle and lanyard on the other. It was left by its owner by the trailhead, probably because they didn't want to be seen with it in the neighbourhood.
Great video! I've always loved the War Club. 👍
Appreciate that!
I liked it. Lots of good discussion and thought.
Thank you!
I want a war club too but the Lungripper is next on the listfor me. Excited about the upcoming products! I enjoyed the long video!
Thank you! Hopefully we can make progress towards the LungRipper
I really enjoyed this video. The thumper is next on my to buy list.
Thank you!
@@wingardwearables thank you for making such well thought out products. I received the xl quill and I'm well pleased. I was an edged weapons instructor and I am already eager to develop street defensive tactics with this tool. I am a veteran LEO and a few years left before retirement, but I will be carrying the quill every day. Merry Christmas to you and your wife, keep the cats in check and I hope to be ordering a thumper this coming month if there are any left stock.
@@bayoubushcraftandsurvival8842 Have a Merry Christmas as well, I enjoyed reading your comment and please keep me updated on tactics you develop with the Quill XL. And I am very confident that Thumpers will still be available next month. Have a great day!
Very interesting interview and a very innovative new product! Awesome!
Thanks for your comment and glad you enjoyed it!
Do either of you guys do DBMA / Dog Brothers gatherings? A lot of like minded people there :-). I love martial arts/weapons/history myself so it's just a big excited experience hahaha. Great video! Learned a lot. Please make more history videos!
Thank you for the comment! I don’t do DBMA but am working with one of the Dog Brother’s: Foxhound-he’s our combatives consultant for a course that’s being developed around the Empress tomahawk. I don’t think he’s gotten to handle the Thumper yet, but has done a lot with the Empress tomahawk and we hope to do more with him in the future. Also, he has a youtube channel with some great interviews-check it out at @thekenelpodcast2805 - he and I did an episode about a year ago, but he had some really good episodes especially the one where he interviewed James Guthrie. A crime that it’s barely had 100 views. Super intense subject matter on that interview.
Anyways, thanks for your comment and positive vibes. Best regards!
@@wingardwearables Thanks for the links and reply! 🙂 First found out about your weapons from Foxhound! We're friends on Instagram but iv not met him irl yet. He spoke highly of the Empress and I've been kinda obsessed w/ it hahaha
Really solves a lot of problems. I'm big into knife fightiness (fun sport and self defense) but this is making me consider if knife is also the best sidearm or not... Why not both :D
@@r.t.972 Oh that’s great-yeah Matt’s been fantastic. We our just about out of stock on Empress tomahawks but plan to start another batch towards the end of this month. Best regards!
@@wingardwearables Awesome! I saw you do piece by piece purchases so I'm gonna get on the train this round most likely. Take care and best regards as well 🙂!
Such an fantastic video. I enjoyed every minute of the discussion from both of you and appreciate yall's dedication to the craft and knowledge.
Great to read this comment 👍the Thumper WearClub could be coming out soon!
The "Long arrows" you may be speaking about is possibly an at ladle.
Amazing stuff sirs.
Thank you!
With all the work put into war clubs I can't imagine just throwing it on a whim. It'd be like throwing your Sig Virtus MCX at someone.
Yeah, agree, but other cultures in different regions definitely did throw theirs. Check out the Fijian ula-it’s a type of missile club. Often intricately carved. Was very cool to see some examples at a museum but definitely smaller than a lot of the ball headed warclubs that Ernest shows in the video
A good example of a bludgeon that’s is very small and not heavy but still can cause lethal damage is a knuckle duster. This club by comparison gives my more reach, leverage, and versatility.
Agree. I appreciate all kinds of weapons, and have a neighbor who casts his own bronze knuckle dusters. Appreciate the craft that goes into those, but I definitely prefer more reach, hooking capabilities, etc.
there is a theory or rumor that the natives carried 4 tomahawks. They were able to skip or bounce a couple them off the ground to keep their foe off balance as they advance until they able to close.
Multiple tomahawk carry definitely happened, given how light and compact a tomahawk could be.
Hey it's my guy
From what ive learned the blackjack, sap and slingshot is essentially the CCW war club.
yes, those are very potent, but I consider them to be flexible impact weapons-I think a rigid impact weapon can perform better in more defensive blocks or thrusts
@@wingardwearables I consider them a type of war club.
I meant to say they have to have it in the heart
Coyote child makes some excellent weapons I have several.
He has high talent and a lot of unique insights go into each of his creations. Very glad to have worked with him.
Since they threw hunting sticks/rabbit sticks (many different types shapes for different types of game - birds/rabbits/other small mammals) (and axes) clubs could be thrown for several different reasons -- see Adam Celadin a knife thrower here and also Object History here
We know that clubs/sticks CAN be thrown-we see purpose built throwing sticks and warclubs of different designs from various regions of the world. Definitely recommend checking out the Throwsticks Channel on UA-cam for just one subset of unique and historically inspired throwing clubs. Not contesting that the Hopi had sticks they used to hunt rabbits, but so far we haven’t seen any evidence in historic accounts that warclubs were thrown in combat in North America. And there’s a martial arts group claiming (in absence of evidence) that Native American warriors threw warclubs in combat. Ernest and I are being polite and not calling them out-no sense starting drama-but it’s good to share perspectives and until new evidence comes to light, it doesn’t seem like throwing warclubs at enemies “was a thing” of any prevalence in North America.
I think you are looking from manufacturing and not in use.. from a martial arts perspective I noticed straight away that the spiked versions would tend to be used more in a boxing style. The club held primarily just below the ball and punched at the opponent. This aspect is 50% of the martial skill.. when a strike would land with a spike. To retrieve the hand is slid up below the ball and pull. Not from the handle as leverage comes into play. Yes it is a distance weapon with the length but lots of very close hand to hand required a tighter range of motion...
That makes sense. Also if I remember the conversation I had with Ernest, I think he mentioned that in the earliest period of European contact, the ball headed warclubs were bigger and featured longer spikes. In this initial contact, there’s at least one account of warriors wearing body armor (of stick and fiber) so a stouter impact weapon-tipped with a spike-makes a lot of sense for powering through these defenses.
Based on my reading of historic accounts, trade tomahawks were rapidly adopted and almost completely replaced the warclubs in the Eastern Woodlands region. The historic examples of spike tomahawks were much lighter and faster than warclubs, and also were commonly thrown in combatives. This would put the warclub at a disadvantage-especially if it was the heavier kind. So I speculate these pressures of competition helped drive the warclubs to lighter, faster designs-including the short projecting “nubbin” of iron as opposed to the long spike.
👍🏼
Now the real question, where can I learn how to make these
There’s another maker on Facebook who occasionally shows the process of going from root burl to warclub. Link below:
m.facebook.com/profile.php/?id=100063702660948
Isn’t the wearable warclub easy to pull out of your hand cause there is no blockage at the end it just runs thinner to the end ,that seems like asking for trouble to me in use of hand to hand combat.
I think “degree of difficulty” comes down to who is gripping the club and who is trying to disarm. Agree that having a flare out at the base of the grip would improve retention-that’s what is done on our tomahawk handles. In future wear club designs, we plan to feature grip flare outs. But historically there are a number of warclubs and tomahawks which featured a handle that thinned towards the base. These wood finishes were scraped, which leaves good gripping texture. You could tie on a lanyard if you want additional security-it doesn’t require drilling a lanyard hole.
@@wingardwearables I was bouncing off a couple of punks decades ago and I caried my ciy stick,I was so stupid to flatten off the flare out rubber at the bottom,so in the heat of the fight one opponent grabbed my stick and pulled it out of my hand just like that,I had to fight like a tiger that night to come out in one piece but specialy to get my beloved city stick back and I did.First thing I did when I returned home was to reshape the rubber with a solid flare out ha ha ha never change a winning team right?!!
@@rick-nv7im Glad you got it back-flare outs-all factors equal-are a superior design choice. Hopefully we have the bandwidth to do another WearClub design in the future.
@@wingardwearables But I do like the design of your wearable club it is besides very pretty very handy in use and a born trouble shooter ,no I love it,wish I had it inside my dungaree that other night ,then the fuzz would have been a lot less I guess.
First comment?
First comment 😆
It’s all good it’s all about the person who uses it .seneca ass kicker can’t be called a warrior
There killers and lovers
I have a a Wooden war club-spear shaped paddle that has" New Hebrides Espiritu Santo" written on it. Probably brought back from WW2, it was being trashed along with 30 deer horn racks and I scavenged them. Not thinking much on this wooden weapon thinking it a toy was going to throw it away, but hung on to it. It's possible I have a authentic cannibal's war paddle-spear about 21 inches long and is in reality about as worthless as my glass telegraph insulators, and still even more informatively worthless than this video. This was shit I thought of at 8 years old. To see two grown men talk about a wooden stick is 😂
Maybe one day you’ll make something worth talking about