Best Tuning Method - Don’t Make it More Difficult | Season Six, Episode 10
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- Опубліковано 12 тра 2024
- Ask drummer about tuning methods and there’s a good chance that they’ve got an approach that they swear by or have been told is truly the best way to tune. But there’s one place where every tuning method can fall short and this blindspot tends to be the cause of most frustration when it comes to dialing in drum sounds.
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PRODUCTION PARTNERS:
GIK Acoustics (sonic treatment): sladl.ink/GIK
AKG Audio (microphones): sladl.ink/AKG
Evans Drumheads: sladl.ink/EvansDrumheads
ProMark Drumsticks: sladl.ink/ProMarkDrumsticks
Signal chain:
Mics - Focusrite Clarett 8Pre USB- Mac Studio w/Pro Tools 2022.5
Recorded at 48kHz / 24bit
Overheads: (Matched Pair in Glyn Johns - Cardioid) AKG C314 sladl.ink/C314Pair
Snare, Toms: AKG C518M sladl.ink/C518M
Kick Drum: AKG D12VR sladl.ink/AKGD12VR
Acoustic Treatment:
GIK 242 Acoustic Panels: sladl.ink/GIK242
GIK 4A Alpha Pro Series Diffusor/Absorber: sladl.ink/GIK4aAlphaPro
GIK Evolution PolyFusor Combination Sound Diffuser/Absorber: sladl.ink/GIKEvolutionPolyFusor
GIK Tri-Trap Corner Bass Trap: sladl.ink/GIKTriTrap
Drums:
Pearl Masters Maple Custom Extra w/70’s Ludwig Supraphonic
Cymbals:
22” Jesse Simpson clone of old Zildjian A, 15" Zildjian Kerope Hihats
Drumheads:
Snare: Evans G12 coated / Snare Side 300
Snare Wires: PureSound Custom Pro Steel 20-strand
Toms: Evans G12 coated / G1 clear
Kick Drum: Evans UV EQ4/ EQ3 Coated White Reso
Hosted by: Cody Rahn
Production & Consulting: Ben O'Brien Smith @ Cadence Independent Media
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Also, if you're curious as to the method we used for tuning up the kit for this episode- we used our years and a pair of keys!
I love the Rob Brown method. Been using it for many years and it works for me. Gets me the best tone in the quickest amount of time
Sounds good!
Care to elaborate…?
@@BeesWaxMinder Rob Brown has two videos on it, perhaps you could search UA-cam for it.
Rob explains it better but remove all tension push on the center of the head and use the drum key until the wrinkles disappear
That works great with heads and rims that are in great condition. When using back line equipment or other equipment that is not ideal, your ears are paramount
TUNE IT FLAT TURN IT BACK TO YOUR PREFERRED PITCH!
i think alot of the reason there's this mythos behind drum tuning is that alot of people don't know what drums are supposed to sound like live and in person. or what drums sound like when you're playing them as opposed to when you're listening to them out front. it's a much different sound than what you hear on records or large venue concerts or videos. safe to say if there's a microphone involved, the drum doesn't really sound like you're hearing it. so if they're chasing a sound that doesn't really exist, they'll do anything and try anything to get what they think it should sound like, then defend their choice based strictly on that experience.
This is another significant factor. If you don't know what sound you're going for or you have unrealistic expectations, you can really end up chasing your tail.
Man, really well said. I think I’m super guilty of this, and trying to become more aware of it!
to get better at tuning, I’ve simply done “tuning katas”: tune, listen, reset, tune again. It is gradually getting my tuning skills to where i want them to be. About 75% there. For me, a lot is building familiarity and more refined goal sounds.
This is everything! As much as we’d love for it to be as simple as, “watch our episodes and you’ll master the art of tuning!” you really need to put in the time with doing it and repeating the process. Cheers!
I like to start with Rob Brown's technique, which gets me in the ballpark, quickly. From there, I check all the lugs to make sure they are the same pitch. Then, I tweak the overall tension to fine tune the sound. I feel that checking the lugs & tweaking the tension are necessary, but if I'm pressed for time, they can wait.
Please test how repeated tightening/loosening of a drumheat affects its tone. I've always heard not to swap heads back and forth too often because the heads go dead after repeated installations. I swap heads all the time and never noticed but It would be nice to have a before/after comparison sound demo.
I guess I fall into the category of being "that guy". As a producer, I'm looking for very specific pitches that work within a given song. For me, the only way to quickly and accurately get what I want is a very specific approach. I typically use single ply on top and bottom. I set the fundemental pitch with the bottom head and then set an interval for the top head. That interval is usually a 4th. So, for instance, I have a 10" tom with Remo coated ambassador on the batter and clear on the reso, I would tune them to this to get it to ring open as a D. Muting the opposing head: tune the reso to a D an octave above the note you want it to ring at; in this case, a D. Tune the batter to an A below that D. When played with both heads ringing open (not laying on a stool or table), the drum rings as a D. Takes only minutes to tune an entire kit. It's predictable and repeatable every time. learned that from Eric Valentine and Kenny Sharetts. I know "if it sounds good, it is good", but I need a fast way to an exact tuning. This works for me. Note, I'm not sure how this works on 2-ply heads.
Ah, very cool and no, you’re not being “that guy.” It sounds like you have specific needs and preferences and know how to produce those sounds-that’s excellent! Out of curiosity, can you detail out your method for determining the pitches for each drum in the kit?
@@SoundsLikeADrumThere's a short video by Kenny Sharrets where he explains this. Toms are tuned using fourths between batter/reso but fifths between each tom.
So, floor tom batter side is tuned to A and reso side tuned to D (fourths) and rack tom batter side is E (fifth above A from floor tom) and reso side is A (fifth above D from floor tom).
Let me find the video and I'll share the link.
@djevlhelvete Sorry if we weren't clear- we're quite familiar with the processes of tuning to specific pitches and using different intervals to achieve this (we've actually got some episodes here on the channel teaching this process) . What we were curious about is how @tommckeown6970 makes the decision regarding what pitches (likely based on the key of the song) to use for his drums.
@@SoundsLikeADrum I've been following you for quite a long time now, so I do know you know you're craft. Sorry if you thought I didn't, that was not my intention. I was just trying to collaborate by explaining KS's video and sharing it.
👍
Very well said! Every now and then, it’s good to hop-up on a soapbox. 👏
Beautiful tensioning work on that kit. Sounds great!
Great video, and channel! I never adhere to an exacting approach, because every drum has its own sweetspot range, to my ears, and every room has its own drastic impact on any acoustic instrument, much like what the room does to different speakers. It all combines as the system total. Your most important statement was to use your ears. In every situation. I've played around with your recommendations, from past videos, in my studio, and you offer excellent advice, and more importantly, getting people to open their minds to differing approaches, and thought. You're always sharing inspiration along with your knowledge. Thank you.
Really appreciate this. My only formal teaching with tuning was for marching drums. All much easier to tune than a kit
Oh yeah, marching drums are the baking of drum tuning. Follow the established steps and everything goes perfectly right. Zero ambiguity or choices to make
I want to point out to something about "having a prescription". It's like developing a recipe, if you have a drum sound that you need to get often, it is good practice to have a method for that, like for example you are a drumtech that changes heads and tunes drums for a particular drummer in a tour. But again, similar to cooking, you need to "taste" the food to make sure, and make necessary adjustments.
Yet, most of us find our selfs in more flexible situations and in the cases where we can experiment with our sound. So, one's "go to method" should definitely involve using ears and experimenting occasionally.
Great video. Thank you.
Great drum set there. Love the finish!
Thanks!
Great call. I find that I use several different methods on a regular basis, depending on which drum I'm working with, but ultimately I go back to the sound, specifically the sound of the different surfaces relative to one another, to determine when I've "got it right".
I'm apparently using a few different methods. I start by hand tightening then pushing the hoops down and tightening a bit past what I can do by hand. I then go around with a drum dial and get the tension on each lug the same. Finally I compare the pitches of my drums relative to each other (I am a dummy who insists on having 5 toms because it's fun) and go around the kit fine tuning the pitch of each head until I have the intervals I like.
My method is usually: eh, close enough
The good thing about the drumdial is as long as the number is alike all the way around it will be to where you can decide to go up or down a number to get the tone you’re after. And fine tune from there.
I've been tuning mu drums the same way since I was 13. That was 1989/90!
I finger tightened the lug, put the drumnon a blanket so I wouldn't hear the opposite head, muffled the head being tuned with my finger in the center and tuned the lugs opposite of one another.
This summer I started experimenting with Aquarian (was using Remo since 1987), and wasn't realizing the sound I wanted, so I tried tuning the way Roy Burns recommended.
Finger tighten the heads, then go around the drum getting all the lugs to the same pitch.
Total fame changer. I had dismissed that technique because it seemed archaic, but it's been working so well for me.
I couldn't imagine thinking whatever way I chose to tune my drums aught to be the only way. That's weird and a real waste of energy.
I use the two drum key technique while tuning drums
I've always tuned my drums depending the gig I'm playing, where I'm playing and to make sure the band leader or singer will like the sound. Each shell has his sound. Doesn't matter how you do it as long as it's sounds good. But I must say that "Sounds like a drum" gave some good advice in the past
Basic fundamentals. Exactly. Round drum, round hoops, good bearings edges, lubed and smooth turning lugs, proper head seating, and finally having even tension across all lugs as we slowly raise the pitch.
That MUST be universally agreed upon by drummers BEFORE doing any method of tuning, pitch relationships, fundamental pitches, etc.
Am I right? Because I know Cory is. This is how I am paraphrasing this awesome video!
I just saw the "Rob Brown" method a few days ago. Haven't tried it but it looks interesting. Not sure if I'd ever use it because I tune my toms fairly high. But it seems cool though.
Hi guys, could you make a video about oversized/‘classic fit’ drumheads? I just got an older Tama Royalstar snare and it sits very narrowly in the drumhead. I wonder if the head could resonate more if it were a little larger. Thanks for all the info!
I use an Evans Torque Key to get the tension even all of the way around, but I just use that as a starting point. I always tune and adjust by ear after getting the head up to tension.
Watch out with tools that attempt to balance drumhead tension through torque. It sounds like you’re not really relying on it but tension rod torque can have very little to do with drumhead tension from lug to lug.
I've used and use pretty much all of these or a combination thereof. The only things I haven't ever used are a torque key and a tunebot. I guess those work for some, but I never really cared to know the exact note a drum or head was tuned to and I just never bought a torque key.
Yeah, I've found that any one of the methods get you to "ballpark," which can be good enough if you are pushed for time, but as you said you still need to use your ears and refine things to get you to the true sweet spot.
I rely primarily on my ear, in part because I’ve never been taught anything different, but mostly because I want to train my ear as much as I want a good sound out of the drum.
Great common sense info! Simple physics. I've always used two keys to pre-tension the head because it is logical and makes it so much easier. Small steps. Even-tensioning. I've been playing for over 60 years and picked these steps up on my own. It just seemed to be the right thing to do.
Thank you for reinforcing this.
I've tried tuning every way I've been shown, personally. I always come back to the squeeze method, and typically don't touch the drum key unless I need higher tension like for the snare for example.
Because I usually go with used drums, it gives me a lot of feedback on the condition of the hoops and lugs. Since my toms and bass drum usually are tuned lower, I consistently get the tuning I want with minimal hassle.
Can you clarify - do you not use a drum key on your toms or bass drum, generally speaking?
Cody's shirt is also using the squeeze method 😁. Just having some fun. My shirts could say the same thing.
BEST ADVICE. Oh and the groove and tone at 6.10 👌🏼
The thing I think gets overlooked often in all these tuning videos and methods is how the drums interact all together. You tune your rack tom up, and go oh that sounds nice...but then the reso head rings in an ugly fashion when you hit the snare or kick. That sort of thing. You have to fashion a sound that works as a unit, where even the drums you aren't hitting sound good.
Also, you might think something sounds good in the room, but then under a mic (roscope)...it doesn't sound so good after all, maybe some weird tones ringing on, or whatever, that would have to be gated out or EQed out.
What you’re describing is “big picture thinking,” which we actually talk about a lot throughout the series. Of course, we focus on the details quite a bit as well, as that seems to be where people need the most help. Once you’ve established some familiarity and built confidence in tuning individual drums, the ability to work on the relationships between them becomes exponentially easier. Cheers!
I hated every tuning I’ve ever done until I got a tune bot. To me there’s just no contest.
It seems simple enough doesn't it? I struggle with drum Tuning even though I am solely a non-pro, playing as a Hobby at Home in Retirement (72 YO), After resurrecting playing after 50 Years in 2019, I have come to learn that drum tuning is an Art to some degree (but i too use and like Rob Brown's simple methodology ["It's Not Rocket Science, People"]. Back then long ago, I knew nothing of drum tunning or different drum heads either. But I have learned much since. Having some OCD is a curse in this regard too. Always seeking for that "perfect" sound from all of my Drums. A part of the dilemma was realizing how much Miking and recording Drum sounds is much different than the sounds in the room so to speak. Currently playing a PDP Concept Maple kit now - graduating up from the cheapo Gammon kit I received from my wife at XMAS 2018 to help the Resurrection - I have encountered one drum which is the "bitch" to get to a sweet spot -12" rack Tom. The learning process also revealed certain aids to tweak sounds: E-Rings, Moongels, etc. THX to Cory for this enlightening video to help us better drummers.
After using two keys for ages, I now dread tuning with one key because it feels a little more difficult to get everything even
Great Job Cody! Have you done a video on different thickness of resonant snare heads?
We sure have! Here you go:
ua-cam.com/video/o8A-XILKfDs/v-deo.html
-Ben
After desperately trying to properly tune the snare side head of my snare, the tension rods still aren’t even. I use two keys and ultimately that doesn’t seem to help. There is always one or two rods that are a little looser than the rest. Can you help me?
What method do you most likely fall back on when tuning by ear is not possible in a pressure situation when you can’t hit the drum?
This really depends on the scenario (you might not always have some sort of tool to reach for if you want to make silent adjustments). If you notice that a tension is coming loose (let’s say in the rimshot zone on the snare, for example), we’ll tend to crank it back up by feel while also knowing roughly how many turns of the key it’ll take to get it back to where it was. That said, we do everything we can to prepare for these scenarios so that you don’t have to tune without listening.
Impossible to tune if you can't hear what you're doing. No way to be sure what the end result will be. But perhaps a torque key would get it into the ballpark.
A drum dial is really the only tuning method I can think of that works silently.
Is it the best method? I don’t know but you can always tune by your preferred method and then take measurements with the drum dial and then recreate your tuning in silence
If you know your settings for a particular sound, drum, and drumhead (and have one within reach), the Drum Dial really is the ideal way to tune without making any sound.
That 6:15 groove is very in your eyes 👌🏽
I have been playing for decades.
At some point, I realized everyone else is tuning to tuners,or pitches. And I am tuning to nothing, except the drum.
So, the quest began. What pitches shall I tune for, as references ? After trying several combinations.
18"- G. 16"- B. 14"- E. in the middle register seems to work well...Use a keyboard or guitar and try different pitches. Try to punch a note, rather than be sharp or flat.
If that works for you, that's excellent! Plenty of us don't necessarily utilize tuners or specific pitches though. What's your method for producing the desired pitch?
I use a keyboard to give me a note. Then, try my best to tune the drum to produce that note. Without a reference note from something, just trusting my ears only. I was tuning flat, under these notes by a half/whole step down. Admittedly , I don't have pitch-perfect hearing and could use some help. Tuning up to the reference notes, my drums seemed to sound better. I believe the intervals would be a 3rd.between the notes. You can pick any start point you want. G worked great for my 18" floortom, so that's where I started.
I was scrolling through UA-cam pretty quickly and saw this thumbnail. For a second I thought John Krasinski played the drums 😂
It is kind of an attack...and you wish,it would be no attack....this is kind of a ploblem.....life in generell is kind of a fight...to survive,to get through....you can accept this or not...but the thruth is beyond....and i hope,there will be more welch tuning system drums out there,or something to convert a lug fitted drum to a 'self tuning' drum...so that tuning is no longer such a big deal....
Great b-roll there 🤣
You should see what was left on the cutting room floor from these takes 😅
The best method that has worked for me is this.
Step 1 Get the drum that needs tuning.
Step 2 In small increments, turn lugs with tuning key of your choice.
Step 3 Listen to the difference and adjust as necessary.
I use a tune bot sometimes. But I find the sound to be slightly different even when tuning to the same numbers.
Do what you like and sounds good. Everyone will have a different opinion about how your drums sound. The way I tune mine, most musicians I know, like my sound. I had a guy from back in the 60s rock era who hated it. He liked the old-fashioned way of tuning and sound.
It's hard to teach children anything who have been told that they're the greatest thing since sliced bread all of their lives.
With drums and art is really no rules you can use to Ride cymbals for hi-hats if that's what you choose for a sound
Indeed and we have!
Personal most simple; just above a wrinkle, plus maybe a half turn around. Hit from there.
I'm offended!!...that my kit is 2 kits combined so no matter what method I use they don't sound good together as 1 kit. lol
One if not more lugs always gets loosened by tightening others. Is that from a bent rim??? If so I'm gonna be pissed. Got a brand new Ludwig supraphonic. Brand. New.
Whats the mass off method?
Here’s our episode on the Masshoff method: ua-cam.com/video/L9nCeq7sL6g/v-deo.html
i decided long ago never to waste money on a torque key. i have no interest whatsoever in knowing how much torque is being applied to a tension rod. it is in no way a reflection of how the head will sound.
Came here looking for answers, left with questions 😂
Would you like to ask them?
How about You went and try to speak to very proffessional people in the world (for like big bands as Metallica very example) and try explain us based on this how they even tune? That would be insanely interesting and hard to get but in terms of some well prepared interview - can we have a glare of how these giants make their tunings? Very wide topic and not quite approachable yet very worth of trying.
Also in beginning of the video You've said that few presented techniques will be explained, they were not lol.
I sincerely received zero knowledge from this video. Thanks for wasting my time while you played a few tasteful grooves.
Congrats! That means you already knew what we covered! Keep up the great work. 👏
Well that was 8 mins 15 seconds of wasted time because your rack Tom is still not tuned right. Some advice you can’t get a low tuning out of small drum so stop detuning them so low. It’s just sounds horrible and then adding mics just amplifies that horrible sound that much more. Always tune your drums higher up than you think. You’ll have better smooth and fatter sound without all the overtones and wobbly warpy or buzzing sound and the drum shell will vibrate with better sustaining tone as well as better projection to the audience more present in a musical mix against other instruments. There are to many bad UA-cam video out there nowadays with drums with improper tuning. Special small drums. I can’t stand a drum that’s detuned. People put more tension on your drum heads and allow the heads to vibrate properly. Stop detuning drums so low. It’s not worth buying expensive drums if you’re not going to tune the heads up high enough to allow the heads and shell to function right!
It really seems as if you’re fighting for your opinion rather than an objective truth. Instead, why not recognize that you have your preferences and that’s okay? We don’t have to agree to both be right…
Lost me at “musicality”.
Oh? Why?