Battle of Fort Grant (1860s) - United States vs Mescalero Apache
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- Опубліковано 29 жов 2020
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Cut from West German movie "Old Shatterhand" 1964.
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Ravi
@@ravikumartalpadaravikumart3830 .
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What is the name of the movie??
What is the name of the movie?
Old westerns like this are just plain fun to watch. Officer standing in front of the cannons. Haha
Best part: pulling a canon away with one lasso and one horse....... with a rider who sitts on a bare horse, no saddle ;-))
I am always amazed by the color quality of these films.
It's hard enough to hit a target at a distance while you are standing steady. Near impossible when you are moving and bumping up and down on the back of a horse. I used to watch all these westerns as a kid. Now that I'm more tactically aware, the improbabilities are overwhelming.
Attacking a fortified position, held by soldiers with longer range and superior firepower, in broad daylight, with no cover, would be foolhardy.
I would suggest that entertainment was always a higher priority than accuracy
I don't know about that, the Parthians, Mongols, Central Stepp tribes, Tartars ... all managed to do it with bows and arrows from horseback, wouldn't it be even more likely to do so with a rifle?
@@emadbagheri Not exactly since rifles at that time period were not that accurate to begin with. Plus the slightest movement could send the bullet completely off course.
Exactly. That is why sensible people, like native Americans, didn't do it.
Due to hunting buffalos, the indians were used to hit targets from horse back. And they wouldnt bump up and down so much, because they learn riding at age of 10 or less.
The Apache may have been a lot of things but they were never that stupid, they would have sneaked up at night and infiltrated the fort.
Yeah, most Native Americans never saw much value in "brave" charges and fights to the death if they could be avoided, mobility hit and run guerrilla tactics were the Apaches thing. They didn't keep resisting for hundreds of years by getting mowed down like that.
Of course.This is german movie made i former Yugoslavia.I remember these movies about Winetou & Old Shuterhand as a kid.They didn't care of accuracy.
For example in some scenes you can see touristic bus in the background (it was maded in touristic region of Plitvice lake) the cowboys use to have 20th century watches on their hands etc.It was serial of 5-6 movies, all fom first part of 60,s.
The most funny thing was when Apachie spoke in german language.
(here is sinchronised on slovakian, or some similar language)
Exactly, I was thinking the same
As far as l can remember from some rumours, it is forbidden to fight in the Apache religion. They were Real brave warriors
But the Mescalaro were crazy even the other Apache tribe's feared them. The one Apache tribe who could be counted on for a fight
The guy with his hat on backwards at 5:55 made me smile.
Amazing! I saw the muzzle loading cannon fire three times in less than three seconds!
True, seems like the artillery back then was impressively well trained
Those artillery men were tough too. One guy leans over to swab the barrel and puts his bare hand right on the tube
Cool
I am an actual Mescalero Apache from the San Carlos tribe.
We are Chiricahua not mescalero most mescalero live in new mexico Chiricahua live in San Carlos I know this because I'm 100% apache and Aztec at the same time I always be in San Carlos
@@officialVozie100 Well I’m from San Carlos but I belong to
The Mescalero tribe. What Aztec tribe?
Sorry for what america did to your people
I know that doesn’t mean much but it’s awful to think about
In that case you must protest the title of the video. Apaches were the original inhabitants of the land called America. So, the title should be........... Between AMERICAN STATE Vs White Immigrants.
Evry Mescalero Apache passing camera always shouts "hay, hay". It is custumary since time immemorial.
I was verry young when this came out, winnitoe and oldshatterhand, those indians where real indians, they didnt need saddles like other western movies. Where indians ride with sadles .... Nice to see this again afther soooooo manny years. thanks to who this vid posted
Filmed in ex Yugoslavia(Croatia now,near "Paklenica"i think there is small museum too)..indian warriors played mostly by local Serbs and Croats,exept main Actors.
I grew up in the 1960s, born 1957, but I had one scenario I played an awful lot. Two movies that really influenced me were Cavalry Charge, 1951, Ronald Reagan, and Major Dundee, 1965, Charlton Heston. Well, as a result of those 2 movies I had Union, Confederates, and Cowboys setting aside their differences to fight Native Americans and a 100 or so Mexican Soldiers from my Alamo set. It was a little more even fight as few Native Americans had guns, so adding Mexican Army with guns, and both sides had Cannons. Union also 5 Gatling Guns (souvenir pencil sharpeners). Of course, if you ever wanted to play Super Heroes back in those days you always had a Native American as your 'Archer'/'Hawkeye type'! LOL So at least one got to be on the winning side. I might have used one with a shield as 'Captain Apache' too. It's been 50+ years, I have forgotten stuff. 😀
Amazingly, the last verified Civil War veteran died perhaps less than a year before you were born, with the possibilities of the last surviving into your lifespan. History is quite near eh? In 1957, the oldest person in the world was born in 1845.
I guess my son was a little weird too. I married later than most and I bought my son toy Soldiers with various colors and also British, Canadian, German, Japanese, and Russian. After 60 year (at that time) and Godzilla movies, my son had the Japanese on the Allies side! LOL. He also called the Germans (and Grey) the Arab Coalition.
I know this is not realistic by any means, but I really enjoyed this war scene.
The good old Winnetou Movies from the sixties.They showed it every Sunday afternoon here in Germany when we were Kids.Not realistic,logic or historically correct but we loved it and after that we went outside to Play Cowboys and Indians.
En France pareil.....c'était les premiers films de guerre que l'on voyait....à 9-10 ans en 60 on y croyait....on ne connaissait pas l'histoire des états Unis....on n'avait pas beaucoup de culture du cinéma....le cinéma c'était.... les noirs et blancs c'était des Laurel et Hardy...ou Buster Keaton...
I totally miss old Hollywood movies, they weren't accurate. But they were very entertaining.
SAME HERE...
Me too! 👍💪👊
Agreed. Although this was a European Western!👍
agreed
@@fred5399 A german western, with a french main actor filmed in yugoslavia. Crazy but very entertaining.
Curious, as a kid I used to play with my "Fort Apache" playset, we allways made the indians attacking the fort, just like that. But for our frustration there were no movies showing such things, only attacks on wagon caravans, open field, etc. So the germans made it! Hahahahahaha
I did the same thing with my playset too!
Guter Kampf, hă?
Winnetou and old Shatterhand. Nice movies eventhough they were eastgerman/ yugoslav in origin. I played with my fort laramie and my jean an timpo toys. Thosewere the days!
Another one bites the dust. Great Fort though!
How many indians were there and that without the aid of a computer😉
Better action scenes than in today’s movies
only a highly trained horse can run through an explosion that is set off right next to it without freaking out and bolting .
well done !
Excellent work
The Fort failed to bulid an earth covered, semi underground, centrally located powder magazine.
1:33 had me rolling...that guy was really into it lol
Old Shatterhand and Winnetou ! My favorite heros in early 80"s...
They still are.
German movies filmed in Yugoslavia in sixties
Me too
I Like Rin Tin Tin movie too
Interesting mix of firearms particularly by the soldiers. two and three band Enfield types, double-action revolvers and Winchesters?
I agree the Winchester was 1870s wasn't it?
Looks like a 1960's spaghetti western. What did you expect?
@@kellybreen5526 It's a German Winnetou film!---Even worse!
The revolvers appear to be the .44 Colt Model 1873 Single Action Army although as I said the rate of fire seems to double action. This reminds me of the .36 Colt Model 1851 Navy revolvers and the Remington in The Good The Bad and The Ugly which are shown as .44-calibre cartridge revolvers when they were percussion revolvers. Indeed in the final showdown you can see the percussion caps on Angeleye's Remington despite the cartridge belt. Plus the holsters are wrong. Re the Winchester, the first was the Pattern 1866 Yellow Boy with a brass receiver. It was followed by the Henry and then the iconic Pattern 1873 also in .44. These appear to be Model 1894s but that is a fairly common 'inaccuracy' noting the rarity and cost of the earlier models even as replicas. I once had a replica .44 Pattern 1873 made for a German Western that never eventuated. It was a lovely rifle nickel-plated and the wood was German mahogany.
@@andrewstackpool4911 Hollyweird has been getting better for years until Django Unchained set in 1858-60 came along with the final third including a lever action not a Yellow Boy ( the Henry would have been 1863 at earliest) Dynomite 1867 IIRC and boattail bullets for the rifles. Ruined an otherwise good piece of entertainment. Of course one of the worst offenders in an otherwise great western was The Comancheros which had both Winchesters and Peacemakers in a movie set before 1845 in Texas before it becoming part of the US.
Must've been a big challenge to film a western with all the horses
Cuando era un niño, me gustaba ver éstas películas...y hasta ahorita las veo..
Very Good.~!! It's a really cool video.
Always reminds me of F Troop.
the silly thing is - this could all be avoided if you attack at night.......
As a kid I played AMONG the Adobe walls of the fort, it was built on top of a mountain, arrow heads were still in the walls. It overlooked the tracks of the battlerfield stage coach
Tradução
Weird, as a kid I visited my step father there. It was a minimum security prison. Not sure if it still is.
I remember being in country we had this fort built Exactly like the Alamo in Texas we called it Fort Apache / Alamo
If that was near Bracketville Texas, then it must have been the movie set for filming the movie "The Alamo." That was back in the 60's. The entire set became a tourist attraction until it was finally closed and demolished around 2018.
After the movie, they turned the perfect nice flat grassy area around the fort into a golf course
That's a great video. I will always cheer for you in Korea I'm looking forward to a great video. Have a nice day.
9:17 "I am a Native American myself and this part makes me feel happy. I'm not really sure why but it just does?"
Great shoots.Fired randomly and never hit a horse.
I love these old Westerns
is from Germany 1960 er Karl May.
Frontal attacks were brutal, they were used for over a hundred years, example “ Gettysburg “ also the VC used frontal attacks until they realized that they were losing way too many soldiers.
Цукенварои цукенварои ❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤
Укенавим ❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤
Brave Indians fight bravely. Worth appreciation. 👏
Sure that they were not cowards and killers of Christian women and children like your turkish soldiers
@@Velthur not all Turkish people are Christian. Anybody who kill unarmed and innocent people is the enemy of the humanity no matter he is white, Christian or Müslim.
Not to shabby for a Stone Age people they did not have a chance really 🦖✌️✊
Native Americans
@@kevinodell4129 Indians
One shot one kill from a half a mile away on a moving target on horseback... Long live Hollywood!
This is a spaghetti western, even more wild than Hollywood.
Not Hollywood. The movie is Spanish. In Spaghetti Westerns, the male leads have God-like accuracy with weapons.
Good video 👍Gary
Odd, that seems like an awful lot of Mescalero Apache? I wasn't aware that they could muster that many warriors together at the same time.
Suku Indian yang berjuang gigih, untuk mempertahankan tanah leluhurnya dari invasi bangsa asing.
Another great video 👍
Is it a TV serie ?
It's a german series, but not really series, more movies with same actors from germany, winnetou 1, winnetou 2, winnetou 3 and many more. all in the 60s and 70s, I think. Winnetou is always Piere Brice, a french actor, his friend is Old Shatterhand, Lex Barker. Karl May was a writer, often read by young boys. Friendship and humanity was most important in the books. The movies... of course, all young boys loved it, but the books are much bettern than the movies.
Well no one can say those Apaches didn't have Cojones. Attacking such a well-fortified fort, with such superior technology- on horseback- in broad daylight? that takes balls of steel.
This is a west German production, pure ((Hollywood) wild imagination. I used to set up my Marx playset and play this scene over again and again. I had the Indians win many times.
Any daytime attack on this fort will fail without guns (artillery) to breach the gates or ramparts. Riding around the fort will result in decimation of the attackers for nothing gained. There were no scaling ladders either, meaning the attack was badly planned and doomed to failure. The fort just had to keep its doors shut to win.
Always got a kick out of the illogic of westerns from before 1970 or so. Where did the Army get the timber to build that log fort in the middle of that desert where there are no trees?
ebay
Trump knew some good people who built it for them
The Apaches and Gringos speaking Hungarians?
United States of Hungary.
Sounded German to me!
@@luislaplume8261
They spoke hungarian in this clip, it was quiet surprising to hear it 🤣
Must be the Hungarian detachment of the US Calvary. 😅😅😊😂😂😅😮
5:07 looked like the horse tripped over an Indians leg... hope it was alright... Never cool to hurt animals for entertainment, accidentally or otherwise. The white horse above also falls, but nothing trips it, and the one closest to bottom comes crashing into screen, so it's entirely possible they were just trained to fall. Horses are damn good actors!
I hope someone can help me with the following question what film or production or documentary is this
We Germans Love Karl May and Winetou.
Stimmt, aber dieser Angriff ist weit ab von der Realität. Auch Mescaleros haben gewusst, dass man eine Festung nicht auf diese Art angreifen kann, wenn man nicht Selbstmörder ist. Keine systematische Belagerung, keine Leitern um die Palisade zu überwinden, keine Artillerie um in die Palisade eine Bresche zu schiessen, keine Laufgräben für die Annäherung in Deckung, keine Mörser um Granaten in die Festung zu schiessen. Summe keinerlei europäische Belagerungstaktik. Aussichtslos.
Stammeskrieger gegen Festungen. Schon Caesar hat vor über 2000 Jahren geschrieben, dass die Belagerung von Festungen nicht gerade die starke Seite seiner gallischen Gegner war. Und die waren mit ihrem Kriegerethos in mancherlei Hinsicht mit den Indianervölkern vergleichbar.
@@olavtryggvason1194 *_".... keinerlei europäische Belagerungstaktik ..."_*
Na, so'n Holzdingsbums ist nun aber auch keine europäische Festung, gell?
@@olavtryggvason1194 apparently the Mescaleros hadn't read Caesar.
Very good movie clip! It is full of heroic action of frontline soldiers. This is what happens when a soldier serves the frontline action. Forward move toward "Life and Death" with only a very small chance to return to civilian life and be with beloved ones of their own family.
Actually that's the battle of Fort Apache September 1, 1881.
The artillery would be firing canister not explosive shells and in addition no one would be using open flames to fire cannon friction primers were in use for quite a long time. Gunpowder would be stored in a magazine not sitting out in the open.
Why on Earth are you trying to make sense of this? They're using torches, it's completely inaccurate and the cannon looks more 15th century than mid/late 19th.
This is a movie made in Spain called Fuerte Perdido (Doomed Fort); it was also released as Massacre at Fort Grant. I initially thought it had been dubbed into Spanish, but the entire cast seems to be Spaniards. (Which explains why the Apaches don't look much like Indians.) There was a Fort Grant in Arizona that was involved in the Apache wars, but this entire scene seems to be fiction.
They're not speaking Spanish though.
They speak hungarian
It was shot in Ex-Yugoslavia in the 60s. The dubbing is Hungarian though
Is one of the Winnetou Movies filmed in ex Jugoslavia be a german ...but i don't know wich one
Öesterreicher Harald Reinl
Gran película ,John Wayne un actor extraordinario
Seems strange that the Apaches are shown as having no artillery
I love the dudes in the gold neckerchiefs!
What is the name of the film? Please! Thank you!
Look in description.
white men fighting white indians
Guns that shoot all week without reloading.... a nice classic western...
Do you ever wonder where they got all the wood for the fort? Look around there is not a tree in sight, it is the desert
They just had it delivered by Fedex, they federal troops after all don't think the Government use UPS.
That's why it is now a desert.
They would need to being it in from other regions?
@@dennisyoung4631 Your right looks like good old NZ pine to me.
Flat Pack...
Admit not a film I have seen before although watched most as a kid back in the '70's, John Waynes/John Ford's triology my favourites along with Richard Widmark in Cheyenne Autumn.Cannot doubt the bravery of the Apache but doubt any General in his right mind would open the fort gates to fire several cannon rounds through. Rate of fire would be insufficient, a couple of gatling guns a different story! Apache incredible skill to be able to fire whilst not holding the reins of his horse, and unfortunate explosion. A final charge would have definitely won the day if needed.Certainly a great action scene
Magnifique documentaire
Nice film👍🏼
The ratio of the Apache casualties shown here is unlikely. In reality according to the diaries of one trooper who fought out in the wild west: "mounted moving hostiles were impossible to hit from any distance."
What is the name of the movie please?
Makes for an entertaining movie, but in actuality the individual Apache tribes fought each other more
than they did the U.S.Army.
I wonder if the Mescaleros ever signed a treaty with the US. As of WWI they had not.
They surrendered, but other Apache fled to mtns of Mexico and known to be wild as of 1970s.
You've got to love those hats........
Qual o nome do filme?
Love those carved wooden cacti! 😅😅
Once a child I thought the cowboys were the heroes.
And so kids......this is how America was built.
Which movie??
I find 'funny' that when cannon shot explodes, the Indians are 'killed', but the horse gets up uninjured. And, when the soldiers and Indians are hit, you see no blood.
Yeah and those Indians are like 30 feet away from the explosion too
I had a CAP rifle that made the same sound... (back in the 70's)
I'd love to see more movies where the Indians beat the US Cavalry (and government) who did their best to wipe them out, aside from Custer's Last Stand.
There are many movies where the indians beat the us-cavalry! They did their best to wipe them out completely - they kill all the soldiers and took the survivors to their villages to torture them
0:27 Hear the horses talking as they are jumping over the revine.
Where film location of this movie?
Yugoslawia
Old Yugoslavia...
In the region of Plitvice national park (now Croatia)
Scene was SUPPOSED to be H1B visa Indian Americans taking American jobs. Instead, it was American Indians taking an American fort
My favourite type of film, John Wayne,cavalry and Indians.
Where s the rest of the movie?
Who cares....
I love the fiberglass cacti!
great movie
Surely the most ludicrous battles scenes ever.
I don't think that the apache had that many horses.The plains tribes had horses but to what great extent? The guy wearing the hat backwards was cool .😁😀
My little brother love this video
Big party! Where's the whiskey? No whiskey, we go home.
Very poor use made of the cannons. Also why are troopers standing in the open instead of behind cover?
Tomahawks versus cannon.
Was it ever different?
It was usually rifle against rifle.
The Cavalry leaves wagons in covered stalls while the horses stand under hot sun?
Why oh why are they doing a direct attack against a fortified fort?
I suppose anybody with a functioning brainstem knows this is ridiculous, but being a native of the Southwest and knowing some Apache neighbors I have to say it. Nothing here is anywhere close to being accurate. I'm just glad there were no yodelers. How was that kind of fort built in a place with no wood and why? All the Arizona and New Mexico, and even California, forts near any Apache band's territory were a collection of adobe and stone buildings like almost all older buildings here.
The Apache were raiders. I don't know that there were ever this many Apache warriors in one spot from their first appearance in the Pueblo territory in the mid-1500's. Incidently the Spanish were there for decades before that. The Apache and their Navajo cousins gradually started migrating down from the north in the mid to late 1500's and only reached large umbers during and after the great Pope Rebellion expelled the Spaniards for about a decade. Without the military might of the small Spanish garrisons the Pueblo farmers were easy pickings for the northern raiders. That's why the big enemy for the Apache was always Mexicans. Not surprisingly quite a few choose careers in the Border Patrol.
The last time any American forts were built anything like this was in the early Revolutionary war. Nobody wore uniforms like this. In any case, no Apache would be stupid enough to assault a fort directly, even in Mexico.
Europeans really have no idea how things actually are here, then or now. Despite the many Anericans who've immigrated from Europe I guess word doesn't go back. My great grandfather emigrated here from Suttgart in Wurtemmburg and, even though he came to the Southwest at the tail end of the Apache wars, I strongly doubt he ever explained this place to his parents and relatives.
This movie is a fanfiction....
Based very roughly on stories written by German author in the late 18hundreds.
Karl May wrote stories based on books he read while was in prison.
Later just some years before he died he visited the US. But near the niagara falls he was so horrified by the life of the Natives on a reservation he immediately returned to Germany.
I doubt he ever met a real Apache.
Actually i'm from Stuttgart Württemberg.....
Hollywood films are typically not historical accurate. It's why it's called entertainment not historical fact.
I know. The Apaches always fought on the ground.
Movie name ?
politics ? no . history ? no .
I enjoy stunt horses ! Turn the head to the opposite side of impact and fall (actually a roll) onto the hip or shoulder . rider is off , it jumps back up , unharmed . see a nose plant into the dirt ? its been tripped . very dangerous .
What film is this?
old shatterhand.
Funny. My family farmed at night be the lights of Fort Grant, AZ
The 2023 bright lamps exist to deter escape by any Fort residents
The "battle" of Fort Grant was a one-sided slaughter of Apache; mostly women, children and old men.
Right on cue, the requisite dippy hippie spouting the noble savage eternal victim bs.
Yes, and most of the killing at the Camp Grant Massacre was by Pima Indians from Tucson. There were Mexican-American and Anglos in the mob, all civilians, who worked the edges of the killing.
@@midlandredux That's Tucson, not Tuscon.
@@ralphm5801 - Fixed.
Always with the natives having repeaters while the US Army are issued single shot rifles
Now that is Hollywood for you winchester model 1873 and 1894's in the 1860's . And Springfield rifles from 1873 in the 1860's , they were not even produced till 1872 and issued to the troops till 1873.