valkyrie's voxter solved this problem (the problem that bushing needs to slide on the hanger because of the seat). boardside bushing is not at the same axis with roadside bushing. so there is no ''bushing seat''.
What about trucks with plug barrels? I don't think they operate in exactly the same manner as inserts do. Also, do Valkyries have the smallest bushing seat thickness in the industry due to their offset bushing design?
I think plug barrels are probably the same thing, but maybe slightly better due to being a more continuous piece of urethane. And yes, the voxters are essentially zero thickness bushing seats. I think that's really cool.
@@nickamaritZak maytum is no longboard technology but he states that the fact that the insert can move independently from the bushings makes the engagement better and thus reduces slop more efficiently. As opposed to a plug barrel like in the gen 6 bears, caliber 3 and most recently Pantheon TKP. As the plug is attached to the barrel it slips in and out of the hanger a bit with every turn. People are cutting that plug off to use as an insert to run whatever bushings they like in the mentioned trucks and the caliber precisions come with an insert rather than a plug barrel even though (as far as I know) the hanger looks the same. They are advertised as 100% interchangeable with the cast but there might be an asterisk as there so often is in longboarding.
@@Kufunninapuh In my cast Cals (even before Pat's Risers made some), I made my own insert bushings from 95A HPF, and I never thought about going back to using plug barrels ever again. Cuz it allows me to use super soft bushings in my front truck.
Next video should be on the hieght of the bushing seat its self!!! Higher bushing seat is alot more restrictive but you get less side to side play... Lower bushing seat lean nicer but you dont have as much support for the side to side play.... The coolest bushing seat ive seen is on bear cnc!!! Its decently high but beveled of on the right and left so you still ge a nice movment and so theyres no sharp edge jamming into your bushings
I believe Rey's have a bushing seat that is not centered with the pivot axis? The seat is more offset towards the roadside side. What does that do? Pros & cons?
I've never held a pair of rey trucks so I'm going by pictures. It seemed like a really weird place to essentially put the offset of your axle (rake) to me at first. But with the ball pivot it would mean that you actually would be able to change the pivot angle (measured from the center of the ball to the center of the bushing seat) when flipping them. You you would have to compensate with extra washers or shims to make the bushings sit flush in the bushing seat and the pivot angle would not be perpendicular to the king pin in at least one of the positions. Hope I'm making some sense and that I'm actually assuming the right things.
The pivot axis as a physical principle is always determined by drawing a line from the center of your bushing seat to somewhere in the pivot cup depending the design of the pivot on your hanger. On most trucks that is the advertised angle. Paris, caliber, bear etc which means the pivot axis happens to align with the advertised baseplate angle (which is a pointless term from a physics view). Flipping one of those hangers does not change the angle, only the rake, which I still struggle to find a good explanation of its effect. Rey is the only exception I know of where the advertised baseplate angle actually changes by flipping the hanger. If my assumptions of their design is correct.
@@Kufunninapuh I agree with you. That's what I found so weird about them. Like how will things work efficiently withouttl the axes being perpendicular?
Very nice explaination. I have a Ronin Cast Truck which has an additional queenpin to counteract that sloppiness. How does this solution compare to the one you've explained in the video? And yeah another video like this about the ronin would be awesome!
I have cast Ronins and the new(ish) cast rouges (with the bushing in the hangar). The first difference I noticed was the jump to 48° from the ronin's 42.5°. They both center nicely and respond quickly from their respective slop elimination features. They both carve deeply from having tall bushings and no bushing seat. I think the Rouges might be slightly less stable going over rough pavement because slop movement is somewhat possible with the third bushing holding the hangar in place rather than a mechanical pin. Then again I might just notice that because of the higher angle. With super loose bushings I think I can start to feel resistance from the third bushing when leaning extremely far. They're both really nice for a lot of the same reasons: Deep carve, quick response, very stable.
Jacob Krajnik I'm not much into DH or freeride myself honestly, however I've seen either work fantastically for both downhill and freeride. I'd say they're quite similar. People say Ronins have somewhat of a unique (but consistent) slide. Not good or bad, just something to get used to. I think the biggest difference is the baseplate angle, although not radically so. I've done split angles with front Rogue/back Ronin and liked it. The Ronins also have a bit more rake.
The solution to the problem is the pivot point on the thick axle. Simply put the pin higher up rather then the center. This will cause it to act the same as the small one but still be big. I think
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valkyrie's voxter solved this problem (the problem that bushing needs to slide on the hanger because of the seat). boardside bushing is not at the same axis with roadside bushing. so there is no ''bushing seat''.
I like Ronin's bushing seats.
A lot of lean, not much restrictiveness but not much play also. Caliber would be my 2nd favorite.
YouPooped YourTube Calibers always looked rather restrictive to me
What about trucks with plug barrels? I don't think they operate in exactly the same manner as inserts do.
Also, do Valkyries have the smallest bushing seat thickness in the industry due to their offset bushing design?
I think plug barrels are probably the same thing, but maybe slightly better due to being a more continuous piece of urethane.
And yes, the voxters are essentially zero thickness bushing seats. I think that's really cool.
@@LongboardTechnology I wonder why there are no precision trucks that use plug barrels. Only those that use inserts.
@@nickamaritZak maytum is no longboard technology but he states that the fact that the insert can move independently from the bushings makes the engagement better and thus reduces slop more efficiently. As opposed to a plug barrel like in the gen 6 bears, caliber 3 and most recently Pantheon TKP. As the plug is attached to the barrel it slips in and out of the hanger a bit with every turn. People are cutting that plug off to use as an insert to run whatever bushings they like in the mentioned trucks and the caliber precisions come with an insert rather than a plug barrel even though (as far as I know) the hanger looks the same. They are advertised as 100% interchangeable with the cast but there might be an asterisk as there so often is in longboarding.
@@Kufunninapuh In my cast Cals (even before Pat's Risers made some), I made my own insert bushings from 95A HPF, and I never thought about going back to using plug barrels ever again. Cuz it allows me to use super soft bushings in my front truck.
There's cast Rouges for $60 now, you should try them. I really like the stock bushings.
Next video should be on the hieght of the bushing seat its self!!!
Higher bushing seat is alot more restrictive but you get less side to side play...
Lower bushing seat lean nicer but you dont have as much support for the side to side play....
The coolest bushing seat ive seen is on bear cnc!!!
Its decently high but beveled of on the right and left so you still ge a nice movment and so theyres no sharp edge jamming into your bushings
Good video. Like always
Something I've been wondering about is the effect, if any, of the size of the kingpin hole, assuming it's not touching the kingpin.
I believe Rey's have a bushing seat that is not centered with the pivot axis? The seat is more offset towards the roadside side.
What does that do? Pros & cons?
I've never held a pair of rey trucks so I'm going by pictures. It seemed like a really weird place to essentially put the offset of your axle (rake) to me at first. But with the ball pivot it would mean that you actually would be able to change the pivot angle (measured from the center of the ball to the center of the bushing seat) when flipping them. You you would have to compensate with extra washers or shims to make the bushings sit flush in the bushing seat and the pivot angle would not be perpendicular to the king pin in at least one of the positions. Hope I'm making some sense and that I'm actually assuming the right things.
The pivot axis as a physical principle is always determined by drawing a line from the center of your bushing seat to somewhere in the pivot cup depending the design of the pivot on your hanger. On most trucks that is the advertised angle. Paris, caliber, bear etc which means the pivot axis happens to align with the advertised baseplate angle (which is a pointless term from a physics view). Flipping one of those hangers does not change the angle, only the rake, which I still struggle to find a good explanation of its effect. Rey is the only exception I know of where the advertised baseplate angle actually changes by flipping the hanger. If my assumptions of their design is correct.
@@Kufunninapuh I agree with you. That's what I found so weird about them. Like how will things work efficiently withouttl the axes being perpendicular?
Rogue trucks. Sixty dollars. "Quite expensive." Other trucks. Fifty dollars. You hear me?
this was made when the precisions were out and the cast version didnt exist yet
the precisions are $375
Very nice explaination. I have a Ronin Cast Truck which has an additional queenpin to counteract that sloppiness. How does this solution compare to the one you've explained in the video? And yeah another video like this about the ronin would be awesome!
I have cast Ronins and the new(ish) cast rouges (with the bushing in the hangar). The first difference I noticed was the jump to 48° from the ronin's 42.5°. They both center nicely and respond quickly from their respective slop elimination features. They both carve deeply from having tall bushings and no bushing seat. I think the Rouges might be slightly less stable going over rough pavement because slop movement is somewhat possible with the third bushing holding the hangar in place rather than a mechanical pin. Then again I might just notice that because of the higher angle. With super loose bushings I think I can start to feel resistance from the third bushing when leaning extremely far. They're both really nice for a lot of the same reasons: Deep carve, quick response, very stable.
Josh Starkey which is better for general freeriding and moderate downhill? What's the ronins better at and what's the rogue better at?
Jacob Krajnik I'm not much into DH or freeride myself honestly, however I've seen either work fantastically for both downhill and freeride. I'd say they're quite similar. People say Ronins have somewhat of a unique (but consistent) slide. Not good or bad, just something to get used to. I think the biggest difference is the baseplate angle, although not radically so. I've done split angles with front Rogue/back Ronin and liked it. The Ronins also have a bit more rake.
Josh Starkey what kind of riding do you do then lol
The solution to the problem is the pivot point on the thick axle. Simply put the pin higher up rather then the center. This will cause it to act the same as the small one but still be big. I think
but there's also a bushing on the other side of the hanger too unfortunately. Good idea though.